Pints With Aquinas - Interview with Exorcist Fr. Vincent Lampert

Episode Date: May 25, 2021

This week’s episode of “Pints with Aquinas” is all about demons. I talk with Fr. Vincent Lampert about what it is like being an exorcist and how he became one. We also discuss:  - The difference between demonic influence and mental health  - The process an exorcist must go through to determine if a person is suffering from demonic influence  - Fr. Lampert’s many experiences during exorcisms  - The different types of demonic activity and how to identify them.   Download my FREE ebook, "You Can Understand Aquinas," now!   SPONSORS Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/ Homeschool Connections: https://homeschoolconnections.com/matt/   GIVING Patreon or Directly: https://pintswithaquinas.com/support/  This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer co-producer of the show.   LINKS Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/   SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd Gab: https://gab.com/mattfradd Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/pintswithaquinas   MY BOOKS Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx   CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

Father Vincent Lampert, lovely to have you here. It's good to be with you. I was going down the elevator to get you to bring you up to my office and I was looking on YouTube. I'm like, what's he been on? You were on Vice. You're on the History Channel. I thought it was a current affair, but I guess it wasn't. What else have you been on?

I've been on so many things I can't even remember all of them. You were on the covert Catholic apologetics channel, Capturing Christianity as well. So that's cool. That's a joke, of course. But you're with Cameron Bertuzzi, a good friend of mine. Yeah. So there's obviously a lot of interest in the kind of work you do. There is, and the fact that I'm happy to be public about it

because there are many exorcists that prefer to remain anonymous, but I've always thought that if the church doesn't talk about it, then how do people know where to turn to get the true help that they need? Is it strange for you when people, like I was looking at the Vice video, and they've got all this kind of haunted music and people flailing on the ground. It's all very dramatic. And it seems like they interviewed you in a dark room. And I'm sure they set all that up. Do you feel like they're kind of not mocking it, but kind of making light of it in trying to kind of get clicks?

Does that make sense? Yeah, I think they take and put their own twist on it. But I've always been very open to talking to many different outlets, even one that some people might consider to be a little suspect or maybe mocking what the church believes and teaches. But again, I think it's always important just to meet people where they're at, present the information of the church, and what people do with that ultimately is up to them. When were you ordained a priest?

June the 1st of 1991. So this is my 30th anniversary coming up. Oh, congratulations. Yeah, it's hard to believe. At diocesan priest? I was ordained for the Archdiocese of Indianapolis. Okay. And when did you have an interest to become an exorcist or did somebody ask you,

how did that work? They always say that if you volunteer for the job, you shouldn't have it. Is that right? The Archdiocese of Indianapolis has always had a stably appointed exorcist. Even when it fell out of practice in many dioceses in the United States, Indianapolis continued to have a priest designated for this ministry. Ironically, he was the pastor of the parish where I attended grade school. Oh, interesting. And then he passed away in 2005. And after he passed away, the Archbishop of Indianapolis was looking for a replacement. So most of us were kind of trying to stay under the radar. And I happened to be at the Archbishop of Indianapolis was looking for a replacement. So most of us were kind of trying to stay under the radar. And I happened to be at the Archbishop's residence one afternoon for a meeting. And I was planning to go on sabbatical in a few months after that.

And the bishop looked at me and said, I'm appointing you to be the exorcist. He goes, I have no idea what I'm asking you to do. But when you're on sabbatical, you can study this. So let's move on to our meeting now. And I think I was just in shock. Now, would that mean that you would have to give up your parish or some other role that you were doing in the diocese? No. Priest, diocesan priest. So here's an extra bunch of work.

That's exactly right. Dealing with demons in addition to the people you already have to deal with. Great. Dealing with demons in addition to the people you already have to deal with. Yeah, so I had no idea really what I was getting myself into and certainly remembered stories of Monsignor John Ryan was the exorcist in Indianapolis. He's the priest who taught you in grade school? Yes. Okay. Yeah, the parish, St. Anthony Parish in Indianapolis.

And then he passed away back in 2005. So when I arrived in Rome in 2006 for my sabbatical, I was living at the North American College and then talked to the rector there and said, hey, what do I do? Can you direct me? And he directed me to Father Gary Thomas, the exorcist there in San Jose. And Father Gary's become a good friend and a good colleague in the ministry, and he introduced me to the Franciscan priest that he was working with, and that Franciscan priest was happy to allow me to come and kind of learn from him. The Church says that the best way to become an exorcist is the apprenticeship model, and Father Carmine, at the time, had been an exorcist for 25 years.

and Father Carmine, at the time, had been an exorcist for 25 years. He was trained by Father Cagnido Amantini, who also trained Father Gabriel Amorth, who became the chief exorcist there in Rome. So I was in Rome for three months, and then Father Carmine allowed me to sit in on 40 exorcisms while I was there. So this was during your sabbatical in Rome. So you were just going for a rest. You weren't going to study how to be an exorcist, correct? Correct. But while you were there,

you actually sat in on the exorcisms knowing that you were now the appointed exorcist. Exactly. So why did the bishop assign you? Surely there's some sort of criteria he looks for in a priest. Well, the rite itself says that the priest should be known for his holiness, his piety. That's why the bishop and I would laugh over the years. I'm like, come on. Why me? Or I would say to him, you know, a lot of the younger priests told me they would like to be the exorcist. And the bishop would say, I worry about anybody that would want the job. Now, why is that?

Because I could see why you would worry about somebody who wants to be a bishop, let's say, because they have a power that they could abuse and it could go to their head. But being an exorcist, I mean, I don't know. I guess probably not a lot of power necessarily comes with that role. Why would you be worried about someone who wanted to be the exorcist of the diocese? It could be. It could go to your head because, again, you know, there's a lot of people that will reach out to you. Okay, yeah. I currently get about 2,000 calls a year from people all over the United States, even other countries that believe they're up against the demonic and are looking for help from the church. So you have to be well grounded to be able to deal with that volume of calls. And obviously, I think I probably receive more

than the average exorcist simply because my name is publicly known. You're on Cameron Batuzzi's show. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So because I'm publicly known and then I take the calls and then try to direct people to someone in their local area. So I like to network with other exorcists. Does every diocese have an exorcist? Technically, yes, because the bishop is the exorcist. So the local bishop is the exorcist by virtue of his Episcopal ordination. And then at his discretion, he can appoint any priest to do an exorcism, or he can appoint one or more of his priests on a stable basis. So when I was appointed back in 05, I became one of about 12 stably appointed

exorcists in the United States. Today, there are about 125. The exact number really isn't known because, again, some prefer to remain anonymous, but the colleagues and connections that I have. So we try to work together, especially here in the Midwest. And I belong to the International Association of Exorcists. It's a group of about 700 priests and their helpers from throughout the world who gather in Rome every other year. We were supposed to meet last year, but it was canceled due to COVID. It's scheduled for this year, but it'll probably get canceled again. So then hopefully we'll be meeting in September of next year. And it's really an opportunity to come together for ongoing formation and just a sense of fraternity.

Yeah. Yeah, do you find it difficult having these profound experiences, which I'm sure you've had and which we'll get to, that other priests in your diocese don't necessarily relate to? And so it must be helpful then to speak to other exorcists who've had similar experiences. Yeah, because we are on the same journey, so to speak. So it's easier to have these conversations. Because in addition to being the exorcist, I'm also the pastor of two parishes in my diocese. So probably half of my time is dedicated to exorcism ministry,

and then the other half of the time goes to the two parishes that I have. Prior to being named exorcist, named, asked, I don't know, were you, since you have become the exorcist, have you taken the reality of the demonic a lot more seriously than before? Or have you always had this sense that, no, we live in a spiritual war? There are demons who want our destruction. Or since learning about it, has that really made you a lot more aware of the battle going on around us? I think I just became more aware. I certainly have always accepted what the church believes and teaches on the reality of evil being personified in what we call Satan and his demons. being personified in what we call Satan and his demons.

I will say that I was appointed to be the exorcist in my 14th year of ordination. And I tell people that the appointment helped me to rediscover priesthood as a vocation as opposed to an occupation. So vocation in the true sense of the word, meaning a calling from God, because I think it's a lot easier for priests today to get so caught up in the day-to-day running of parishes that you kind of lose sight of what you're really doing. Just to make a parallel, as a father, it's a similar thing. You get so caught up in getting the kids to soccer practice and making the house respectable, making sure the kids aren't talking back, that I can forget that I'm supposed to be

the spiritual head of the household and to be guiding my family to heaven. And that's why I think I tell people that I think as an exorcist, I've rediscovered what it means to be father and not just a manager of a parish. Do you encounter priests who mock the sort of work that you do? Oh, yeah. When I was first appointed back in 05, the bishop announced it at a gathering of the priests, and more than one kind of laughed and thought,

we still believe in this? What are we doing? Haven't we moved on from that? How do you handle that? Maybe not just outright kind of laughter in a group But when you encounter people who kind of look at you quizzically Like are you serious? This isn't a thing

What's wrong with you? It's one thing if it's happening amongst other fellow priests Because one would think that because of their vocation They would recognize the spiritual battle that we're in But for folks that are outside the church I just simply like to present the information And, what they do with it is up to them. Because I will say there are many people that will laugh at the topic of demon possession and, you know, Satan and his demons, and think that somehow that comes out of a primitive,

superstitious worldview, you know, as a time perhaps when mental health wasn't really understood. And so that's the reason why I think I like to be public about the topic, just to simply present again what the church believes and teaches, and then what people do with that then is up to them. But I like to plant spiritual seeds, so to speak. That's wonderful. I think it was C.S. Lewis who said, you know, the devil wants us either to be looking for him under every rock

or to think he doesn't exist. And it seems to me that many in our society today would rather just mock the idea that Satan exists. Although we're beginning to kind of see a new paganism emerging, even in kind of popular culture. I was driving home from the chapel last night, and I turned on the radio, and I don't know what this song is. It's, I guess, a modern song. I don't listen to modern music because I'm too cool for that. But she said something like, I met the devil and he was okay

or something like that. I just said, my God, like we're slipping back into paganism here. But okay. But I think many people would just say, well, this is just, as you say, a ridiculous superstition that can be accounted for by natural factors, right? The idea that we're being oppressed by some invisible demon in red pajamas and horns or something is absurd. And we've grown beyond that, and we should grow up. We can address that. But I think on the other end, you might have people who are looking for kind of Satan under every rock as the explanation for everything. So I guess I'd ask you, like, out of all those phone calls you receive every year,

I think you said 2,000 or thereabouts, what would you say, this would be hard to guess, but I'm asking you to take a stab at it, would be the percentage of these people who are contacting you who just do have mental health issues? I would say probably about half. Okay.

Wow, so that's significant. That's surprising to me. So half of them, you think there is actual demonic activity taking place? Absolutely, because just in initial conversation with them. Now, unfortunately, I'm not able to help everybody that reaches out to me just because of distance and geographics, which is why I try to connect people with someone in their area. Sometimes that can be difficult because many priests today,

you know, somebody knocks at your door and says they're dealing with the demonic, it's like, you know, close the door in their face, you know, hang up the phone, you know, maybe they'll just go away. But that will send people to the wrong sources, I believe, because if people really believe they're dealing with the demonic and they're seeking for help, the church does need to respond. But even out of a sense of charity, the church also has to be able to tell people that what you're dealing with is not demonic, it's a mental health issue, and then to direct people towards the people that can give them the true help that they need. I've always believed that whether it's the priest, it's the psychiatrist, or the medical doctor, all three of us should be working together to bring relief into the life of somebody who is suffering,

whether that be due to spiritual causes, physical causes, or mental causes. But it is difficult, I would say, within the mental health field to find professionals who will at least be open to the possibility that what the person is suffering is something of a spiritual nature. I like how you put that, it's a matter of charity. Like it would be an unkind thing to pretend that you are under some sort of demonic influence if really what you were dealing with was some mental illness.

We'd be actually holding you back from receiving the help that you needed by pretending or being wrong about. And that's why I would say that the church will be doing greater harm if it labels someone as being possessed, and that label prevents the person from getting the true help that they need. Now, I will say that when I've told people that what they're dealing with is not the demonic, unfortunately, many people that contact me have already self-diagnosed. They already believe they're possessed, and so they're dealing with is not the demonic. Unfortunately, many people that contact me have already self-diagnosed. They already believe they're possessed, and so they're looking for an exorcism.

But I'm trained to be a skeptic. The church says that I need to reach moral certitude, meaning beyond any doubt that the person in front of me is truly dealing with the demonic, which is why then I would rely on experts in the mental health field, family doctors, to have them weigh in on what they believe is happening. So how can you be confident without a shadow of a doubt that this is the demonic? What's the sort of process when somebody comes to you and says they think they're being experiencing the demonic? You play skeptic, You play devil's advocate, as it were. How is it that you do that? What does that look like? So we have a protocol that we use in the

United States. So number one, we would ask a person to have some type of psychiatric evaluation. And that doesn't mean that the church doesn't believe them. Oftentimes when somebody, you know, you tell somebody you need a psychiatric evaluation, they're like, you don't believe me. But if you're going to go through an exorcism, you also need to be mentally strong. And if somebody is kind of on the edge, that edge needs to be taken off, and the mental health industry can help do that.

But wouldn't, I imagine you alluded to most psychologists or many psychologists would dismiss the idea that this could be demonic activity. So wouldn't it just naturally appear to them to be something psychological? Well, and it's important to note that the church is not asking the psychiatrist, do you think this person is possessed? The church herself will make that determination, but the church is asking these experts to weigh in and to say, is there anything about this person that is outside of your understanding? Ah, I see. So what's the sort of response you've received from a psychiatrist

when they have come to you and said, I don't understand what's going on here? What's been an example of that? And that's where, you know, again, I would say it's very hard to find those folks because many of them would just simply discount the possibility of what the person is dealing with is demonic. But I have found some Catholic counselors and psychiatrists. Okay, but so you're sending somebody who thinks they're possessed or something like that to a psychiatrist. If the person is exhibiting kind of unhealthy behavior that you would deem influenced by

the demons, presumably she's not going to say, or he's going to say, well, no, this person's fine. They're going to see this negative behavior and attribute it to some psychological cause, correct? Well, they could, but if it means, you know, if you're going to be diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome, for example, but they'll say, well, the person might have this labeling, if you will, of having Tourette's.

But what they exhibit is outside of the scope that would lead to that diagnosis. I see. Because oftentimes, you know, the same symptoms that we see in people that have mental illness could be the same ones that we see in those who are possessed. So again, the church is looking for these experts to say, well, it may be similar, but we're not drawing the right conclusion based on, you know, all the individual circumstances that are involved in this person's case.

And then I would require them to have some type of physical examination by their family doctor. And then I would meet with the person or perhaps somebody from my team or even other priests in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis. There's a questionnaire. The Vatican has put together an intake questionnaire trying to determine if this is demonic, what was the entry point. And it even begins by saying some questions. Have you ever been diagnosed with a mental illness? Have you been prescribed medication?

Are you still taking it? If not, did you stop taking it at the direction of your doctor? Did you been prescribed medication? Are you still taking it? If not, did you stop taking it at the direction of your doctor? Did you do it on your own? What type of music do you listen to? Ever been involved in the occult, satanic practices or rituals, black masses? The list goes on and on, but I would be trying to determine what the entry point would be. Step four of the protocol would be to look for the four signs of demonic possession that are mentioned in the rite itself, which are the ability to speak and understand languages otherwise unknown to the individual. Superhuman strength, so the person exhibits strength beyond their normal capacity. Three would be elevated perception, the person has knowledge about things

that they should not otherwise know. And then four, an aversion to anything of a sacred nature, such as being blessed with holy water, being shown a crucifix or a Bible. Now, some of the tricks up the sleeve, you could say, if I'm trying to determine, is this truly demonic or is this person, you know, suffering a mental illness or are they'm trying to determine, is this truly demonic or is this person, you know, suffering a mental illness or are they just trying to put on a ruse? So if I meet with somebody and I bless them with water, I know if it's blessed. Oh, really? The demon will know if it's blessed, but this individual won't know that.

Because if it's truly blessed and it's become holy, there'll be a negative reaction from the demon. But if I bless somebody with tap water and they scream, that might be an indication that... That's interesting. Yeah, because you send someone to a psychologist. I'm still trying to figure this out. They don't believe in the demonic necessarily. They can't fully account for what this person is dealing with.

But that in and of itself isn't proof that it's demonic. It just might be proof that we don't have a fuller enough understanding of psychology. So it's not as if you can go on, as you say, you're not looking to her to say this person's possessed or not, but you almost have to kind of assess her or the psychologist's account of what's going on. And then it sounds like you have your own ways of determining whether or not this person is being influenced by the demonic. of determining whether or not this person is being influenced by the demonic. So holy water is one of them, you said. If you sprinkle them with tap water and they react, that might be a sign.

Are there other things that you do to determine whether or not? I might pray with somebody. If I lay my hand on their head and offer up a prayer, I might have a relic in my hand. And so, again, anything that's of a sacred nature is going to create a negative reaction and cause some type of demonic manifestation if a demon is truly present. You know, the former exorcist in Indianapolis, Monsignor Ryan, right across the street from St. Anthony Parish was a former mental hospital in Indianapolis. And he used to share with me that he would go and visit some of the residents to take communion, and he'd walk in the front door, and some of the residents would begin to curse at him and spit and mumble at him under their breath. And then when he would

make his rounds, and then when he was leaving, these same people would be, good to see you, Father, thanks for stopping in. They were completely different and he believed that some of the people there were dealing with the demonic and it was the presence of the Eucharist that he had with him. And then when he was leaving he didn't have the Eucharist anymore because he had distributed. So sometimes I meet with people, I may have the the Holy Eucharist on my person, you know, and a pyx in my pocket, and then to see if it creates some type of a negative reaction

from the person. Again, things that I'm aware of, the individual is not, but again if it's something demonic, they're going to know if they're in the presence of something that's holy and sacred. You said that while you were taking your sabbatical you sat in on 40? 40 exorcisms. Could you tell us about the first sort of, or maybe not the, one of the first exorcisms that you sat on that really struck you, that this is as serious as it gets?

Yeah, Father Carmine, the priest that was training me, we would meet in a very small room, and I was sitting across from this little elderly lady. Her husband was there. I tell people I learned enough Italian to order lunch. And I thought, well, this can't be any bad. This is a sweet little lady, and we're just having a conversation. And then Father Carmine comes in, and he puts a roll of paper towels on the table,

and then he walks back out. He comes back in and ties a plastic grocery bag on the wall radiator. He walks back out. He comes back in with his purple stole on and he has the rite of exorcism. He takes holy water, blesses this little old lady. As soon as the drops of water hit her head, she starts howling like a dog and her eyes rolled back in her head and she starts howling like a dog, and her eyes roll back in her head, and she begins foaming at the mouth and growling and throwing out all these vulgarities. And of course, I'm over there thinking, what has my bishop gotten me into? And Father Carmine didn't even flinch. He just reached over, grabbed a paper towel, wiped the lady's mouth off,

and threw it in the plastic bag and continued praying at one time at one point this was pretty dramatic one too is that the the person started to levitate okay they got agitated so much the demon was agitated and then at one point the demon got very calm and got this hideous grin on its face and I looked over and the person is rising out of the chair. And I'm looking at this like in disbelief. And then Father Carmine reaches over, puts his hand on the person's head, pushes him back down in the chair. And that was such an important lesson because what he taught me was don't focus on what the

devil is trying to do, but focus on what God is doing in this particular prayer of the church. Because later on in that prayer, it appeared that the demon had been cast out. So then all of a sudden you hear the person's voice, thank you for praying, Father. This is so wonderful. You don't need to pray anymore. Thank you for praying for me today. The demon is now gone you can stop praying and father carmen you could tell that he knew not my first rodeo deception was there and he continued to pray and then the demon shouted out i told you you could stop praying wow and again there's that for me again i was just like, wow. Wow. But are most instances of praying over people who are possessed less dramatic than those two stories you shared?

Or is there always some sort of manifestation? There's always a manifestation. In fact, the prayers of the church, the ritual itself, is meant to cause manifestations. Because only when the demon manifests does the battle against it begin. Interesting. when the demon manifests, does the battle against it begin? Because the distinction should always be made between the person as an individual and the demon that is now using that person's body as if it were its own. So once the demon manifests, I would never reference him or her. The reference would now be to the demon. Do they ever reveal their names to you? They have. The newer rite of exorcism,

so the new rite came out and was promulgated in 1998. It was the very last liturgical rite to be updated after the Second Vatican Council that ended in 1965. It was released in 1999. There are some critiques that maybe it wasn't as effective as the rite of 1614. So from 1614 until 1998, the rite remained virtually unchanged. So there were a couple revisions in 2004 and 2005, and then the English translation came out in 2016. But in the older rite of 1614, the demon is commanded to name itself. But when you know the name of someone, you have a certain power or control over them.

So when a demon names itself, it's showing that it's submitting to the power and the authority of Christ. Can you think of a name that has been given to you in the past? Leviathan. Really? Leviathan, a demon mentioned in the Bible, the great sea monster. I worked with someone who was possessed by seven demons. Demons, whenever somebody's possessed, they always work in like clusters. There's never just one demon, it's always multiple demons. And just as much as there is a hierarchy within the angelic world, there is a hierarchy within the demonic world, because when the angels fell, they fell from all nine choirs. And so this particular person who was possessed by these seven demons had invited them in. They believed that a

friend of theirs was possessed and then went up to their friend, looked him in the eye and says, what's ever in you I freely invite to come into me. So a misguided notion of charity and she said that no sooner did she say the words that she felt something come over her. And I worked with this person for over a year. The weakest demons were the first to go. They don't have that sense of strength. But the demon Leviathan, when it named itself, told me it did not have to leave because it had been invited in. And one could say that in an exorcism, the demon is commanded to return that which he has stolen, namely a person created in the image and likeness

of God. Because the human person, we have the capacity to grow in holiness and virtue. Just because we make a bad choice doesn't mean we can't repent and renounce that. Now, the demon would have us believe that one and done, you know, if you made a pact with me, that's it. But again, the human person, we can grow. That's why as Catholics we say conversion is an ongoing process. So a person could make a choice to create an entry point for the demonic, but they could come to understand the error of their ways and then seek the help of the church.

And so in this particular case, I still remember when the demon was cast out because I commanded the demon to say, Hail Mary, full of grace, right there from the beginning of Luke's gospel. And the demon looked at me and laughed and goes, Grace of full, and then began shrieking and screaming. And we were in an old convent chapel, and a bell had just rung, and 400 schoolchildren are now pouring out onto the playground outside this chapel. And the demon says to me, if you stop praying, I will stop screaming. But if you keep praying, I'm going to keep screaming, and then people are going to come in

here and see what you're doing, and then you're going to have to stop anyway. So then I commanded the demon to obey me in all things, although an unworthy minister of Christ, to say the words, Hail Mary, full of grace, in the order that I told it to say it, and to leave immediately. And then the demon that had been speaking in this very deep, authoritative voice looked at me, and in a baby's voice goes, Hail Mary, full of grace. And then there was a shriek, and every manifestation of evil ceased quicker than you could snap your fingers. And the person in front of me, their face was beaming as bright as the sun.

Golly. That's when people ask me, what did you do afterwards? As a priest, did you celebrate mass? Did you do a holy hour? I said, no, I went to Dairy Queen. Just celebrated with a frozen something. I said, no, I went to Dairy Queen. Just sort of celebrated with a frozen something. A chocolate shake.

I was two hours from my parish. This had gone on for a year. I was kind of tired, exhausted. Gone on for a year. Yeah, wow. So, I mean, that's interesting. So it's not as simple as you kind of go in there and command the spirit to pray, Hail Mary, full of grace, or throw a holy one, and it's done. It's not it.

Why is that the case? Is that due to your inefficiency as a priest? Does that make sense? Like if there was a very, like I'm sure if our blessed Lord came down from heaven and commanded, it would go. So why is it that it takes a long time in certain circumstances? Is that on the part of the exorcist, or is it on the part of the person who is maybe being possessed, who is still unwilling somehow in whatever freedom it has to... I think the key ingredient would be faith. So the exorcist has to truly believe in his power ability. I had a colleague, and I always liked the statement that he made,

if a priest takes his vocation seriously, so will the devil. But if a priest doesn't take his vocation seriously, neither will the devil. I think that's why it's important for an exorcist not to be a newly ordained priest, but one who has formulated a priestly identity. So you really have to believe in your priesthood that it really means something. It can also take a while, too, because maybe the person that's possessed hasn't been completely forthright. Maybe they're still holding back something, and what they're holding back could be the hook that the devil still has in this person's life. Oftentimes, if somebody has done something to invite the demonic in,

they might be embarrassed by that. But an exorcism like reconciliation is not meant to be judging anybody, but I can only really help people if they're forthright and tell me exactly the circumstances that led up to them inviting the devil in. And I will say, too, that ultimately God decides the moment of deliverance. And even every exorcism prayer provides some benefit, even at that particular moment, it does not give total liberation. Have there ever been times that you've been tempted to doubt the truthfulness of all of this? I mean, we all struggle with doubt from time to time. Are there times you just think,

this is all ridiculous? Like this is, even after all I've seen, maybe it can be explained through natural causes, this isn't true? Or are you... I've never had any doubts. I may have had doubts in my own abilities and thinking, you know, why am I doing this? But again, it's always important to realize that in an exorcism, Jesus is the main actor. He's not the bystander. Even the priest that trained me, the last piece of advice he gave me before I left Rome was if you're ever doing an exorcism, and for even a split moment you say, wow, look at what I'm doing, he said, you've just walked on unholy ground. He says, it's never about you, it's about the person Jesus Christ

and what he is doing in this particular prayer of the church through his minister. And there is a danger today. I think that's why, going back to what we talked about earlier, it's important for a priest to have a strong priestly identity to do this ministry because one could be caught up in their own ego. And ego and fighting the devil is a bad combination. It's a great quote. You mentioned earlier the different rites of exorcism. One was from the 17th century, I think you said, and one was like 1950-something?

1998. The new one just came out. Which do you use, and do you have an opinion on which one is better? Pope Benedict gave permission for any exorcist who's stably appointed to use any of the rites that are out there. Do you mind if I ask which you use? I use a combination of both just based on the circumstances. I sometimes hear that the devils hate Latin, and I don't know if that's just people who are super into the Latin mass saying that

or if that's actually something exorcists experience. I would say the devil hates Latin because it's the official language of the church, and because the devil wants to reject the church, then he would want to reject the language. But have you encountered that as you've prayed with people, whether it's been more efficacious to pray in Latin than another language? I kind of like to avoid that, you know, which is better, Latin or English. I will say that the older rite, the prayers seem to be more powerful in their structure, the way that they're worded. And that's been one of the criticism of the new rite is that perhaps the language is not as authoritative or strong. So I will always

begin using the new rite, and then if I feel like I need an extra oomph, so to speak, then I will rely on the older rite of the church. But for me, the most important thing is that whether it's the new rite or the old rite, it's the prayer of the church. And that, to me, needs to be what's primary because the devil knows he's all about division, and if he knows that there's a debate in the church about old rite versus new rite, he certainly wants to get involved in that to see if he can spread some of his division. So to me, the personal charism of the priest is even more important. You know, if I'm not in a state of grace and I'm trying to do

an exorcism, nothing good is going to come from that. You know, ex opere operato, meaning when a priest celebrates the sacraments, they're always efficacious, even if the priest himself— Is unbelieving or sinful? Yes, but that's not the case in an exorcism. So the charism of the priest does matter in an exorcism, which is why if I'm going to do an exorcism, I will prepare myself. I will go to confession, spend time in prayer, celebrate Mass. So I really want to lay it all out before God, so to speak,

so that the devil doesn't have anything to attack me with during an exorcism. You mentioned four signs of the demonic being manifested in people's lives. Super strength or knowing languages they shouldn't know, knowing information they shouldn't know. And an aversion to anything of the sacred. Could you give us examples of these? I mean, yeah, the super strength, Latin, yeah, maybe examples of each that you can think of? Yeah, so one of the exorcisms in Rome was an elderly man when he, when the demon manifested, jumped up out of the chair and lifted the old metal swivel chair above his head with one hand.

So again, you know, you need some bodybuilder to be able to do that. So that is a sign. It doesn't seem that heavy, does it? Picking up a swivel chair? I mean, I can do it. And I guess he's an old man, so it seemed a lot more difficult. And obviously this is someone that I had, you know, you get to know them because a lot of the people that I encountered in Rome were coming back from multiple appointments. You know, that whole scenario, by the way, you know, Fr. Carmine, his parish church was St. Lawrence outside the walls. And the first time I arrived, there's at least 50 people in the courtyard waiting to see him. Some had appointments, some didn't. And you just saw a whole cast of characters that were looking for help.

It was actually a very pitiful sight, so to speak, because these people are— A sheep without a shepherd. Yeah, they're in pain, they're suffering, and they're looking for help. Okay, old man lifting the chair, is that the only example you've seen of super strength? I did an exorcism in the state of Alaska. When the demon manifested, it took five people to hold the demon down. My goodness. Okay, what about languages that they shouldn't know?

Yeah, I've heard examples working with people, whether they're speaking Latin, all of a sudden maybe ancient form of greek which i don't speak but how did you know it was an ancient form of greek if you don't speak it just from hearing the the uh the dialect so to speak the the sound of it i like to study languages so i've studied italian and spanish and i know some russian nice just based on my ethnic background, so to speak. Okay. Yeah, so they're when demons, and obviously I would know that, you know, in my preliminary investigation, the person in front of me doesn't know Latin.

Okay, so it's not possible that they're just speaking gobbledygook, which you're mistaking for Greek. Correct. I mean, that could be possible. I'm thinking as a skeptic now who would say, I don't know, maybe this person's just talking in tongues the way modern evangelicals do, and you're mistaking that for some other language. And I wouldn't. And in those cases, that's why I would have, whenever I meet with somebody, I would never meet with anybody one-on-one, especially in today's world. So I would always have the person who's afflicted, and then

when a family member or a friend would come with them, I would have another priest. So if I believe that there are priests that are skilled theologians in all kinds of languages, I would have maybe one of them present just to have them weigh in with their theological expertise. I don't claim to be the expert in the room on everything, but I want to rely on what the church has to offer within its theology, and so many people are skilled in so many areas. And then they help me determine what it is that I'm up against. You gave us example of super strength, the ability to know languages that they shouldn't know. You talked already example of super strength, the ability to know languages so that they shouldn't know. You talked already about an aversion to the sacred. What's an example,

if you have any, of somebody having access to information that they absolutely shouldn't have? How would you even know that, I suppose? Well, because working with folks, whenever a demon manifests, it will always try to determine who's the weakest link in the room. Wow. I would hate to be in that room. That's why I always laugh when people say, oh, Father, could I sit in on an exorcism? I always say there's no such thing as exorcism tourism. Oh, wow. Because I had a deacon one time. He was studying in Rome. He was a transitional deacon, and it was the demon Leviathan, what I was talking about earlier. And when the demon manifested, you could see, looking through the eyes of this person,

stopped at him and really knew nothing about him and just said, you think you're so smart. You're nothing but a sack of, you know, just because you study in Rome doesn't mean you're anything. And the person did not know this person at all. So there would be an example of just a little bit of information trying to get into your head. Because again, the devil wants to disrupt the prayer of the church. You know, he wants to be in control and in charge. And that's why, again, for an exorcism,

you know, the exorcist takes charge of the entire situation you know i determine where the exorcism is going to take place the devil doesn't get to determine where he will be defeated the church herself will make that determination thank you very much it's never going to be in an abandoned house on a dead end street at midnight during a thunderstorm that's a great movie not an option yeah again, the devil doesn't get to decide. So always a sacred space. So it could be in a chapel or in a church, a place that's going to provide some sense of privacy. I mean, we don't want somebody just walking in who's stopping into the church to light a candle or say a prayer, all of a sudden encounter an exorcism. That would be inappropriate. Again, I determine who's going to be there, myself, the one afflicted, a family member,

other people that are going to be there to pray, to represent the community. And then we will begin. Have you had an experience of perhaps someone who's rather unbelieving or thought that their family member was suffering from anything but the demonic, and you've seen their opinion change right then and there? Yes, and it's important to note too that an exorcism cannot be performed on somebody against their will. Somebody has to want that. A quick question, just of clarification. I think some people have the idea that if somebody's possessed, they actually have no free will left. And that's not true. Something of the person always remains free. And just because somebody's

possessed doesn't mean that they're manifesting all the time. So to be possessed, somebody has created an entry point for the demonic into their life. And so there's that connection with the demon. But that doesn't mean that the person can't go through some of the normal aspects of their everyday life. But there could be moments where the manifestation, something triggers that connection with the demonic and then the demon manifest. Okay. So there is some rhyme or reason to when the devil manifests itself in the person. And that, I guess, is something of a trigger. Can you think of examples of a person you've worked with and

whenever they've encountered the lady in in that was possessed with the seven demons in leviathan you know the very first time i met with her and her husband you know here i'm back on my own thinking where's father carmen you know where's my backup but it's just me and so i went to visit them and kind of do the intake questionnaire and i thought well this is doesn't seem to be anything out of the unusual. And so the husband said, well, Father, before you go, because I said I want to pray about this and just spend some time thinking about how to move forward. And the husband goes, well, Father, could you say a prayer before you go?

I know Sooner said in the name of that the demon manifested and lunged at me like a wild dog. I mean, I think I jumped back five feet, my heart's like racing. And then I immediately just stepped right back up right into the face of this demon and then prayed. And how did she respond? Just this pure hatred look on her face looking at me. I mean, just pure hatred. I don't know, if you've never seen it, it's really hard to describe. This poor man who had to live with his lovely wife.

But something would just trigger it. Sometimes in the middle of the night, she would just sit up erect in bed. The demon would start manifesting. I was working with a colleague in another state recently, and the two demons that named itself in this individual were the demon Molech in the Old Testament, where people used to sacrifice their children to Molech. And then the other one was Beelzebul, the lord of the flies. And at one point, when the demon Molech was manifesting, started chanting.

And I said, well, what are you chanting? And Molech looked at me and said, I'm using my own language to glorify Beelzebul because he's a higher-ranking demon than me, so I wish to give him honor and glory. And then the other exorcist looked at me like, what do we do with that? I guess it's a sign of tremendous hope

that one can have a sense of humor regarding these things. If Satan had the final word, it would be very bloody difficult to sit here laughing about it. Absolutely. And well, we already know he doesn't. Yeah, he doesn't. We already know the end of the story. What you were going to say, though, I think it sounded like you were about

to say if you didn't have a sense of humor about these things. Yeah, I was going to say I do have a sense of humor, and I think it helps keep me grounded. Because when you deal with so many people that are on the fringes, I mean, it can really zap the life and strength and energy out of you. So the sense of humor is what keeps me grounded. That's why they always say, you know, a joke. There is no cost for an exorcism. It's a ministry of charity, so the church doesn't charge. But the joke is that if you don't pay your exorcist, you could get repossessed.

But that's a joke. There is no money. Just to be very clear. Okay. I used to work with people and still do help chat with people who struggle with pornography you know i used to speak about this quite a lot this is my kind of full-time thing that i was doing writing books on it and and it was it was quite difficult to continually meet with people whose lives were

falling apart because of their addiction to pornography and sort of in a similar way though in much lesser degree i had to find kind of ways to just stop thinking about it i couldn't kind of take on their burden so if i would give a presentation somewhere and someone would tell me how their marriage is falling apart because xyz i would just have to go and lay it down before the tabernacle and then go have a beer and just i couldn't i couldn't bring on all that pain because it would crush me. I imagine something similar must have to be the case with you. For me, to do exorcism ministry full-time would not be a good idea. Okay.

I think as a parish priest, that helps keep me grounded too. Just being able to celebrate Mass on the weekends, daily Mass, being involved in the lives of people, whether doing weddings and baptisms and funerals, it gives a good balance. But to me, I can't imagine doing exorcism ministry full time. I think at some point it would just really zap the life out of you. Have you ever encountered somebody who you suspected was possessed, but they didn't and they hadn't approached you yet? Like maybe me or Joe? Certainly not you. Okay, good.

Maybe Joe. But do you ever encounter people and you think, oh, dear, what was that? Oh, no. Well, what's ironic about that is that I've had more than one occasion. If I'm just out and about, someone will go by me, and I'll just have a sense that there's something demonic and that the person will be mumbling under their breath or even throwing vulgarities at me just out of passing.

I think the reality is that the devil knows who's working to defeat him, so he will try to attack. Because, you know, there is something known as demonic oppression. Yeah, could we stop maybe a moment and just kind of define these terms? Here's some of the terms that come to my mind, and honestly I'm not terribly clear about the distinctions. So you can help us here. You have oppression, infestation, hexes?

Vexation. Vexation, I apologize. Vexation. Possession. Obsession. Obsession. So, vexation. Possession. Obsession. Obsession. So obsession would be demonic. So the church identifies four types of extraordinary demonic activity.

And then there would be demonic obsession, which are mental attacks. The devil is literally trying to get into your head. So where everything we think is totally defined, even our existence, by the demonic. So these are mental attacks. Then there's demonic vexation, and I like the term vexation. Vexation would be physical attacks. Maybe there's marks or bites or bruises that appear on a person's body. We've seen the movies, incisions of letters that may appear for a period of time,

and then they subside. Have you encountered something like that? Oh, yeah, all these seen the movies, incisions of letters that may appear for a period of time and then they subside. Have you encountered something like that? Oh, yeah. All these things, yes. Absolutely. What's the strangest thing you've encountered regarding signs or things that have come on someone's body? And how can you be sure that they didn't inflict that upon themselves? Because I've seen them like incisions of letters where they'll appear in front of me and then they'll disappear.

I mean, I actually witness it. That'll do it. Yeah, good. Wow. The thing is, too, it's important to note, the devil will play on a person's memory and imagination. And so that's why it's so important not to really get fixated on what the devil is trying to do.

That's one of the things I've learned in the 16 years I've done this ministry. I'm not really interested in the devil's parlor tricks, so to speak. I want to stay focused on what God is doing. And I think that's the number one role of an exorcist. We're not focused on the devil. We're focused on God. And the people that are afflicted, we want to help them change their focus in their life away from the devil onto God, who wants to save and help this person who's created in the image and likeness of God. So we have obsession, mental attacks, vexation, physical attacks. There is demonic possession, whereby the demon will then take control of the person's body. This is the highest demonic activity with a human, is that right? this is the highest this is the highest

so the person's all of their activities now are totally defined by the demon the demon will use their mouth to speak their hands to gesture it probably is like an anti-incarnation that's what it feels like why would the devil be interested in possessing a human body

we get old our hair falls out, we put on glasses but the greatest thing that God did for us, as you just said, is the incarnation. God took on human form. So it's a way of Satan aping Christ in a way, is it? Yeah, because Satan wants to mimic God in every possible way. So in his own twisted sense, he believes that he takes on human form when he possesses a human person. How do you not just get super terrified

about all this? Like even now as we're talking, the demons are aware of what we're discussing. If Catholicism is true and all it teaches about the demons is true, how do you not sort of fall into this, into fear? Fear that, well, I don't know, that you'll be attacked by the demons. I mean, have you physically, have you personally experienced demonic attack as somebody who's on the front lines of this? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, more than once over the last 16 years. And again, that's where oppression, demonic oppression, is a gift from God. They can be physical attacks, even sometimes mental attacks, but it's a gift from God, which sounds really strange.

Yeah, it does. That God allows one to be afflicted by a demon as a gift. But there are good examples, Job out of the Old Testament. We have St. Paul himself who talks about the thorn in the flesh, a messenger from Satan said to torment him to keep him from becoming proud. Now, no one would have thought that Job needed an exorcism or St. Paul needed one. Think of some of the great saints of the church, Padre Pio.

I have a great little book about the devil and the life of Padre Pio. Padre Pio used to call the devil Old Bluebeard. And oftentimes at night, the devil would come manifest in his room and try to torment him so he couldn't get any rest or sleep, so he wouldn't be able to hear confessions or meet the pilgrims who were coming to see him there in Italy. But in that book, Padre Pio writes that one night he was trying to get some rest, and he heard some rumbling in the room, and he rolled over and looked over there and says, oh, it's only you, old blue beard. I thought it was somebody important. And then he rolled over and went back to sleep. The sass. Now, how many of us would be able to say that? No, I would poo the sheets. You know, something happened recently. Like if my wife was here, she would tell you

dozens of stories of strange things that have happened to my family while I've been out giving talks to high schools on pornography. And something that happened most recently, I was asked to go give a talk in, I forget where, North Carolina. And everyone, all the kids were social distancing, which is fine, but it's hard to give a talk when people are social distancing and wearing masks. And so I gave this one presentation and it wasn't terribly well received, I didn't think. Well, that night, my wife got into a car accident and had to be rushed to hospital. And it was very traumatic. And I was ready to kind of take off, get in my car and drive home. And my wife said to me, stay there. I think this is

attack and that your talk tomorrow is going to be incredible. And God bless her, you know, and I just thought, all right. And so I woke up that next morning with this tremendous resolve. I went and spent an hour before our Lord and the Blessed Sacrament. And I said to the lady who was hosting the event, I went, buckle up. Like these children's lives are going to be completely transformed. And I knew it was because of the grace of God and because of the prayers and sufferings that my wife was offering up. And I don't think—I can't remember a talk that went as well.

People sharing so vulnerably. But the nice thing about this is every time the devil does something that he believes is advancing his kingdom, he ultimately advances the kingdom of God. It's got to be exhausting. But what I'm sharing with you, does that sound like a legitimate thing? I mean, it's difficult to know whether these things are in your mind or not, but at the time I felt quite confident that it was the prayers and sufferings of my wife that were leading to the conversions of these young people. Yeah, because the devil wants to get us off track. And if he can get us off track, then

all the young people that needed to hear that talk would not have heard it if you would have just immediately left. So what are some of the attacks you have received, if you don't mind sharing? By the way, if I ask anything, just tell me to shut up if I'm getting too personal. The last thing I want to do is pry where I shouldn't. But I'd love to hear from you some of the attacks that you've experienced. and does it tend to be around when you are engaging in your ministry of exorcism that those attacks are stronger? I discover that the attacks are stronger if I'm going to give a talk to young people. Really? Like at a university. The fellowship of Catholic university students focus oftentimes will ask me to give talks. And I've given talks at many universities across the United States.

But it always seems that when I'm going to do that, I will experience some type of demonic attack. I gave a talk in New Jersey several years ago, and right after that night I was going to bed, and I was attacked. And I knew it, and I knew I wasn't having a heart attack or anything like that. And I knew that it was demonic and immediately just prayed and it ended instantaneously. When you say attacked, what do you mean? It's like something was sitting on my chest and the temperature in the room actually went down. It was really cold in there. And I

knew that there was a demonic presence. What do we mean by infestation? Infestation would be the presence of evil in a location associated with an object, even in an animal. Think of chapter five of Mark's gospel, the garrison demoniac, where the demons go into the swine. So infestation would be in a location. So when people say my house is haunted and they're right, if they are, this might be one. And the question again would be why, because demons are pure spirits. So as pure spirits, we would say they're neither here nor there. We say they're here or there if they're acting there. So the question would be, why is the demon acting in this location? Obviously it doesn't live in the house, doesn't

have an address like you and I have, so why? So trying to determine that, you know, was somebody involved in some type of, you know, seances or whatever, people trying to communicate with the dead, what took place in that house, maybe a horrific crime of some kind, but something had to happen in that location to bring about a demonic presence. St. Thomas Aquinas says that God will sometimes allow the damned to manifest to people. So in your experience, has the answer to why is my house seemed to be haunted or something mean not a demonic spirit but a damned soul or no? It could be a damned soul, as you just said,

but the question too would be could it possibly be a soul in purgatory? So a soul that is seeking prayers. I had a colleague who say that he worked with a group of religious sisters who were selling their convent. And they said that there's something that's in there, a spirit manifest. And whatever it is, we don't want to leave it behind because we're selling the place. And the priest was like, well, how long has this been going on? And they're like, well, 100 years. What? Lights would go on and off all the time for no reason.

Things would move. People would hear footsteps. A soul that's in distress that needs our prayers can't send you a text message or call you on the phone. So the priest determined what they would do is that they would say a mass for the repose of the soul of this nun once a week for three weeks. And you said as they were celebrating mass during the Lord's prayer, when they said, deliver us from evil, the lights went out in the chapel and the candles blew out at the altar. Wow. It's like the soul was saying, yes, I'm in torment. And that happened again the second week, the same mass, thing. Deliver us from evil, lights went out in the chapel, candles blew out. Third week, deliver us from evil, candles went

out, lights went out. A few seconds later, the candles relit on their own, and the lights came on on their own. And then every manifestation of evil ceased. And he believed it was an indication that the soul finally received the prayers that it needed to go on. And it's important to note that the soul of one who has died cannot choose to act in this reality. God has to permit it. Once we die, we don't act independently of God. We may do that in this life, but not in the life to come. So if it's a soul of one who has died that is manifesting,

God has to permit that to happen for whatever reason God may have, but it's usually of a spiritual nature. And in these cases, people just have the sense that, yeah, strange things are happening, but it's not terrifying. Because I think if something is truly demonic, there's something in us that tells us, you know, this ain't good. And I think it goes back, you know, think of St. Augustine, you know, our hearts are restless, O Lord, until they rest in you. The human person has the innate desire for God. And so if we're encountering something that's demonic, I think kind of a, you know, a red light goes off, so to speak, saying this is not good.

But if it's a soul of one who has died, again, it can be troubling, annoying, but it's not fearful. Interesting. But you talk about the souls of the damned, too. Yeah, that's a debate in the world of the International Association of Exorcists. And who brings the souls of the damned? You know, can they appear at an exorcism? Is it that Satan drags them out of hell?

Is it that God permits them to be there? So this is one of the things that we would talk and discuss at our gathering in Rome. Interesting. You've talked about different demons revealing their names. Has any exorcist you've encountered, encountered Lucifer, like the big cheese of demons? Or does that not tend to happen that Satan is possessing a person? Satan can possess someone. In fact, the priest who trained me, I asked him, you know, what's the most difficult case of exorcism you've ever dealt with? And he told me he had worked with somebody for five years and just seemed to be hitting a roadblock, roadblock, roadblock.

And he finally says to the demon, is your name Lucifer? And he said, the demon responded, I used to be known by that name, but no longer. He said he found it kind of profound because Lucifer can no longer use the name Lucifer because to acknowledge the name is to acknowledge the giver of the name. And since Lucifer has now rejected God, he will reject the name that God has given him. It's like a child who rejects his parents and changes his last name or something because he doesn't want to be associated. Yeah, interesting. changes his last name or something because it doesn't want to be associated yeah interesting um how many people that you work with forgive me if this sounds um

insensitive but end up taking their own lives because you're saying you know this this person took me three years i was working with them for five years how does somebody go on living like this you know i've never had that experience where somebody took their life thank god and three years. I was working with them for five years. How does somebody go on living like this? I've never had that experience where somebody took their life. Thank God. And I think that's why it's so important to tread cautiously. Again, that's also the importance of getting people mental health care too. Again, it isn't that the church doesn't believe, but a person does need to be in a good mental place if they're going to go through the prayers of the church. So I think that's so, so important.

I presume you never film exorcisms, perhaps for the... The church doesn't permit it. Doesn't permit it. But I could see a skeptic saying, well, isn't that bloody convenient? Because all that would be required to prove the existence of the demonic is to bring a camera in there and to live stream one of these people levitating like you say and you'd have proof of god's existence so why on earth not do that isn't this just a little bit too convenient says the skeptic or one could say if we did film them they would just say well you've manipulated the film that's true so i would agree with agree with that. There's always a way that, it's a question of the, where do you begin? Does one begin with faith? And if you have faith,

then believing is seeing, or if you're just going to begin purely with science, you're going to say, you know, seeing is believing. But we're beginning, we're coming from two different starting points, so to speak. When you speak on university campuses, what are some of the, and do you mind moving this maybe just a little more closer to your mouth? What are some of the kind of skeptical questions or rebuttals or do you get people up there challenging you in the Q&A period saying this is, well, not so much? And if you do, what's your response to them? Oh yeah, there's always hecklers out there. I had a young man in Nebraska where, as I was speaking, he came in with an amulet around his neck, and he grabbed it, and he's aiming it at me as I'm speaking,

and he's mumbling something under his breath, and I'm like, what are you doing? Please, child's play. Holy water. Okay. You get skeptics. I had a person. It might have been on, when Cameron, I was with him, a caller, you know, and she was like, well, you know, you said that, you know, like going to haunted houses

and things could open up an entry point for the demonic. And she's like, I don't really believe in the demonic and I like to go to all these things, so why aren't I possessed? And my answer is very quick. I said, I don't want to insult you, but the devil doesn't need to afflict anyone that he already has control of. Wow. That's definitely insulting, but nice way to cushion it before you landed it. But earlier you said that The Exorcist was a good film, I think you said.

Did you not? The movie The Exorcist or The Exorcism of Emily Rose. But these would definitely be within the horror genre. So it doesn't sound like the problem is with horror per se. The movies are focused on what the devil is doing. But in an exorcism, the church is focused on what God is doing. That's always who's getting top billing. And for the church. You do get that in exorcism and exorcism in the rose. I mean, you do have the kind of victory of Christ. I guess what I'm asking you is, it sounded like

you were criticizing this woman for going to haunted houses, or that maybe she shouldn't. But the experience of watching the exorcist is also horrific. I mean, it sort of plays into that same desire we have to be afraid, but in a healthy kind of way where... I think because if that wasn't in the movie, people probably wouldn't go and see it. I mean, I think there's a great fascination with the devil. Yeah. You know, if you're going to give a talk on Jesus, 20 people might show up. But if you're going to talk about the devil, 200 people will show up. There's always that intrigue with kind of the unknown. Joe, you're cooler than me. Who's this idiot who released that video recently where he was sodomizing Satan or the other way around? Have you heard of this? It was like the number

one song that came out recently. I don't know because again, I'm too cool to know, but our younger viewers might. But we are seeing a lot of this. Nike, for example, I think they were those custom-made shoes of the man who had human blood. And again, I don't know. I'm not with it. But I mean, this is all really bloody disturbing that this stuff is becoming. Well, the devil's become mainstream.

And the thing is, if people believe that somehow we can control Satan, you know, we're the mouse and Satan is the cat. We're not in control here. You know, and the devil can do things to kind of lure us in, maybe even give us that false sense that maybe we're in control, we're calling the shots, but ultimately we're the ones that are going to pay the price because, again, it's the nature of Satan.

You know, he still has an angelic nature. Go back to Aquinas, you know, when God created the angelic world, he gave them infused knowledge, knowledge of what he called evening knowledge, things in the natural order. And then God said, with the knowledge I have given you, will you now honor and glorify me? And that would be the morning knowledge. And then Lucifer, along with one third of the angels, took the knowledge that God had given them and then chose not to glorify God. So they're considered to be imperfect creatures. But the devil still retains his intellectual nature, which is greater than ours. So again, if we think we're controlling the devil still retains his intellectual nature, which is greater than ours.

So again, if we think we're controlling the devil, the only one that we're fooling is ourselves. That's why it's so important, even in an exorcism, to realize that it's not me. I mean, if we're relying on me, we're all in trouble. But if we're relying on the power and the authority of Christ, that's where we need to be. And there's a growing trend today to treat the exorcist priest as a wizard or as a magician, where people think that I have certain powers or abilities. And that's a path I never go down. I don't have any ego in any of this. I'm happy to be an exorcist, to do this ministry at the request of my bishop,

but ultimately it's up to him. If he were to come tomorrow and say, I've decided we're not going to do this anymore, so be it. He's in charge. He's the boss, and he's the one that the Holy Spirit has placed as my bishop, and I accept whatever judgment he gives. Earlier, you spoke about points of entry that lead to what? I guess they would lead to things like, well, they wouldn't necessarily lead to things like infestation, would they? Unless we're talking about a location, but at least things like vexation and possession. And obsession. And obsession. What is obsession?

Those are the mental attacks. Okay. Yeah, that's right so what are these points of entry and what should we not be pussyfooting around with that you see christians pussyfooting around with does that make sense many of us want to kind of justify the certain behaviors and entertainments that we enjoy but maybe we shouldn't so what are some of these things that we should be on guard against and i would say that in the years i've done the ministry there are some dominant ways that people can open up an entry point for the demonic. I think the ways are countless, but some of the ways would be ties to the occult.

You know, the word occult comes from the Latin word occultus, meaning hidden or secret. You know, it focuses on the paranormal. It has to do with things like going to see a psychic or a median practicing magic. And I like to remind people that all magic is inherently evil. And I don't mean, you know, an illusionist. Yes. You know, pulling a rabbit out of your hat. And that's a different thing. But magic for what it truly is, which is trying to, you know, have a control over people and to know the future and all of that.

All magic is inherently evil. People try to communicate with the dead. All these practices are condemned right there in the book of Deuteronomy in chapter 18 in the Old Testament because when people turn to something of an occult nature, it's a violation of the first commandment. When God says, I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods but me. And when people are turning to the world of the occult,

they're looking for a substitute for God. So that's an opportunity for one to open up an entry point. The entertainment industry, I think, is another one. There's a great fascination, as we mentioned earlier, with the devil right now. There's many programs on TV. There's all kinds of literature that are out there. There are video games and whatnot. And I think it creates a fascination with the demonic.

You think of a lot of young people today. They all have these gadgets in their hands. They're staring at a screen. They're in isolation. They're just all by themselves. And I think that can be an entry point for the demonic in people's lives. Somebody can be cursed. Now, curses are only effective if one is weak in their faith.

To curse means to commend someone or something to the devil. To bless, we commend it to God. So as Catholics, we bless people, we bless places, we bless things, but something could be cursed. But we can't control what somebody else does. They may wish us ill will. We can't control them, but we can control where we stand. So that's why, for me, a curse is only effective if we're weak in our faith. You think of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, we need to put on the armor of Christ. If we're putting on the armor of Christ, somebody's trying to curse us, it's going to be ineffective. You think of Psalm 91,

I need not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day. It's that notion that God is protecting and guarding us. You know, first letter of Peter, your opponent, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking one to devour. Resist him solid in your faith. James 4, 7, resist the devil and he will flee. So there are things, if we're just living out our faith, but again, a curse can be an entry point. Being dedicated to a demon.

So I've worked with somebody. It was in Rome, the lady I got to know in one of the exorcisms who shared with me that her mother had dedicated her to Satan when she was born because her mother blamed God for giving her a child that she did not want. So she decided to raise her under all kinds of satanic practices and rituals. When she was 12, she ran away from that environment, ended up on the streets of Rome. As a young lady, she made her way to Father Carmine,

who began doing prayers of exorcism on her. I saw her manifest when I was there. The good news about this young lady is that she's gone on to become a nun. Wow. So just because somebody has dealt with a demonic doesn't mean that anyone is too lost for God to find them, especially if they want to be found. And now she ministers to street children in the city of Rome. She knew what it was like to live on the street. So now she wants to make a positive difference in the lives of these young people.

positive difference in the lives of these young people. So when I think of, you know, you've made an entry point for the demons, I'm thinking of you have to be someone who's sinning or culpable in some way. But now that you've just mentioned curses and being dedicated to demons, it sounds like you don't necessarily have to be culpable in the sense that you have sinned, say, going to see a... Now, the culpability may be that one is just not living out their commitment to God. What does that mean, though? Because that sounds terrifying, because none of us are living out a commitment to God to the degree in which we should be. Does that mean we should all be terrified that someone's going to place a curse on us

and we'll be bugged? No. I was going to say that the key ingredient is to still be able to call sin a sin and to repent, which is a common theme throughout the Bible. The Israelites in the Old Testament constantly rebelled against God, but God always called them back to fidelity. So to me, that's the key ingredient.

All of us, we're all sinners. We're all going to fall short, but can we still call sin a sin? And I think we're living in an age when faith is in decline, and a lot of people are living by three guiding principles that I like to say, But can we still call sin a sin? And I think we're living in an age when faith is in decline. Amen. And a lot of people are living by three guiding principles that I like to say, which are— Me, myself, and I? You may do whatever you wish. Nobody has the right to command you.

You're the God of yourself. Yeah, that is it. I mean, there is a temptation in the garden. That's exactly it. You don't need God. You can be God. And you can determine what's right and what's wrong. You don't need God.

You can be God, and you can determine what's right and what's wrong. But as long as we can still call sin a sin, that to me is the key ingredient there. Because we can open up an entry point, but then we have the power to close it with our faith. I think it was, who's this chief exorcist in Rome? What's his name again? Father? Gabriel Amarth. Thank you.

Yeah. I recall, it was several years ago I read his book, but I recall him saying something like, the sacrament of confession is more powerful than an exorcism because with exorcism, the demon has the body, but when you repent, you're making it so that the evil doesn't have your soul. Is that right? Yeah. And reconciliation, confession, is a sacrament of the church.

An exorcism is a sacramental. So a sacrament is of a weightier nature, you could say. And any time we confess our sins, we place them in the hands of God. And once we place them in the hands of God, the devil cannot use them against us. So literally, when we go to confession, we're taking the devil's fuel away from him, so to speak, that he's using against us. Because I think oftentimes Catholics today especially can have this fear of going to confession. But I like to remind people that confession is not about being on a guilt trip. It's about recognizing that God's love and mercy is the greatest thing that we can know.

It's even greater than any sin that we can commit because God is always ready to forgive. Sometimes I like to just wonder for a moment, you know, you go back to the book of Genesis after Adam and Eve had sinned and they went and hid, and God comes to Adam and says, Adam, what have you done? You know, of course, he pointed to Eve, and then Eve pointed to the serpent. And I always like to imagine what would have happened if Adam had said to God at that moment, I've sinned and I'm sorry, rather than trying to pass the buck. Can I ask you to do something kind of off the cuff here? It's a bit spur of the moment, but I think you'll be okay with it. Can I ask you to look into this camera and to make an appeal to somebody who may have been or

is away from the sacrament of confession? What would you say to them right now? I would say that people need to understand the true love and mercy of God. You know, one of the things every time we walk into a Catholic church, there's a crucifix. Sometimes people will say, ah, Catholics, you're leaving Jesus on the cross. But the crucifix is so important because when we look at Jesus on the cross, he's basically saying, I love you this much. And you look at the wound in his side, and basically he's saying, he's inviting us to accept his love and mercy. So I would encourage anyone who's been away from confession for a long time to put the guilt aside and just truly come and receive the sacrament and experience God's conditional love for you.

The human person is God's greatest creation because we are all created in the image and likeness of God. So the human person reflects the divine image. I think that's why the devil tries to attack us, because he believes that in attacking the human person, he's indirectly attacking God. So again, I would just say that recognize the great value and dignity that we all have being created in the image and likeness of God. And if there's any sin or burden that we're carrying with us, bring it to reconciliation. I like to remind young people in my parish, I always tell them that going to confession is like throwing up. Nobody likes to do it, but after you do it, you feel so much better. So sometimes I tease them

and say the confessional is a place where you can go and spiritually throw up, and then you can leave just feeling so much better about yourself and the fact that God loves you unconditionally. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for that, Father. What's your opinion, and not just your opinion, but I guess your educated opinion as you engage in exorcisms of yoga? I find it difficult to demonize yoga, but I'm open to doing it if you help me do it. It seems to me that if somebody is engaging in certain stretches, that this isn't intrinsically evil at all. I don't know how it could be to use your body to stretch in a certain way. But I also know people who are involved in your line of work to a lesser degree who would say, no, absolutely, it's a gateway drug to the demonic.

Cut it out immediately. Don't be pussyfooting around with sin. So tell us your opinion on yoga if you have one. I do have an opinion. And I will say this at first. I also think it's not healthy to always see the demonic everywhere because then we're giving the devil too much credit. I do think that yoga could be something that could be suspect and could be an entry point because the exercises are not the issue.

The question would be the spirituality that's tied with it. I see. And can the average person make the distinction between the exercises and the spirituality? And maybe the person begins initially just for the exercises. I think that's probably right. But then they become intrigued by the spirituality that's with it. That's the subtle way I think the devil sometimes works is, you know, he makes it look appealing.

There's, you know, the fruit in the garden again. Did God really tell you not to do this? So he can kind of lure us in, and then once we get pulled in, all of a sudden we see the different layers that go with it. So like with the practice of yoga, you know, we learn that, you know, the different postures and poses are actually forms of worshiping different demons. So I hear that and it makes me troubled, but at the same time I think, who the hell are the demons to think they have any kind of monopoly on how I hold my body? Do you know what I mean? Like just because certain people intended to worship the demons through a certain pose, surely that

doesn't mean I'm no longer able to make a certain posture just because it happened to be the way these people worship demons. But you might be indifferent is that you're really grounded in your faith. Okay. But how many people are really grounded in their faith? I think there's a lot of people today, I think even the former Archbishop in Philadelphia, Archbishop Charles Chaput, made the comment that there's a lot of people today that wear the label being a Christian but they do not know the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe they're just going through the motions of their faith.

They show up at church on Sunday, and, you know, it's kind of like punching a time clock, and then they leave. So I think there's a big difference between somebody who's well-grounded in their faith and somebody that's just going through the motions of their faith. I mean, I've even had a fellow priest tell me one time that he was kind of bored with Catholicism. He was going to explore Buddhism. It's like, to me, that's an example of...

You're not on a good path here. Yeah, you're not in a good path. And when it comes to yoga and things like that, to me, if you're not on a good path, that's probably not the place to be. Yeah. No, it makes sense. I don't think we can underestimate how weak we really are. But to me, if you're not on a good path, that's probably not the place to be. Yeah. No, it makes sense. I don't think we can underestimate how weak we really are.

And when you start congregating with people who hold certain New Age ideas, maybe we're kidding ourselves to think, well, I can do this a few times a week and I'm not going to be kind of swept up in the spiritual aspect of this activity. I think we get caught up in deception. We haven't alluded to this yet, but we know we talked about the extraordinary aspect of this activity. I think we get caught up in deception. We haven't alluded to this yet, but we know we talked about the extraordinary activity of the devil. But I think the ordinary activity of the devil is what all of us need to be concerned about. Okay, tell us about it.

It's how the devil tries to trip us up in our daily lives. And when I talk about the ordinary activity of the devil, I believe the devil has a four-stage plan of attack. And all the words begin with the letter D. So it begins with deception, which leads to division, which leads to diversion, which leads to discouragement. So deception, it's the lies of the devil. He gets us to buy into the lies. And then once we buy into the lies, he did that with Adam and Eve. And then what did they do? They went and hid. It leads to division. We're broken. We're no longer whole and complete. And then where does that brokenness leave us? That division,

diversion, we're out in the weeds somewhere. We're no longer focused on God. We're trying to justify. So the deception has led to the division, which led to diversion. And when we're no longer on the path of God, it leads us to discouragement. And discouragement will always lead to death. Spiritual death almost all the time, and then physical death sometimes. You look at the rise of suicides today. But the good news is, and I think we always have to be people of hope, to me, when one arrives at discouragement, it's a crossroads. So one pathway leads to death, but the other one, I believe, leads to discipleship. We have that reawakening. Think of John Paul II, the new

evangelization, where we realize, you know what? My faith is more than just going through the motions. It's really going to mean something to me. I'm not just going to wear the label, but I'm going to truly have that relationship with Jesus Christ, the one that's communal. I recognize the importance of the church and one that's personal, meaning I'm going to live out that relationship each and every day of my life. How important are things like praying the Holy Rosary or wearing a blessed item? I think they're important if we're grounded in our faith. So we're not doing it as a magical thing. I know, because there's many, you know, there's priests in my diocese,

you know, somebody knocks at the door and says, Father, there's a ghost or I'm possessed. You know, they'll give them holy water and a rosary. They may not even be Catholic. And jokingly, I say, well, did you give them a rabbit's foot too? Because if these people don't really have any faith, they're going to put the power and trust in water or whatever. But those things have to point to something greater. And the something greater is our relationship with Christ. I had a young man in Illinois one time who called me and said, Father, my girlfriend's possessed, and I did what I was supposed to do to get rid of the demon,

but it didn't work. And I was like, well, what were you supposed to do? And he's like, I've been burning sage in the house because I've heard that demons don't like the smell of sage. And I'm like, are you listening to yourself? You're putting your faith in sage, and your faith needs to be in the person of Jesus Christ. So when you look at an exorcism, if I bless somebody with holy water, it's really pointing to baptism, our new life in Christ. It's the notion you think of St. Augustine, in the waters of baptism, we die to ourselves and we put on Christ. And once we have put on Christ, we can never be lost again. So it has to mean something deeper, but which is easier, just to hand somebody some holy water?

Yeah. Or to sit there and evangelize? So when the priest celebrates the sacraments, they do work ex opere operato. Correct. But when we hand somebody a bottle of holy water, it's not necessarily the same thing. But are you saying that holy water, therefore, doesn't have power apart from faith? I can imagine somebody has a very limited understanding of what this thing is, but they just know that it is sacred, and they know they

want the demon gone. Well, there's something powerful powerful there's something certainly powerful about holy water but i want that to be not at the core jesus christ needs to be at the core at the center of our faith and then these things that we use whether it's holy water rosaries those are all very important and powerful but to me it's the relationship with christ that's what these sacramentals point to don't they as you say they have to i think when sacramentals become a means in and of themselves is when perhaps we're not on good ground. Yeah, I agree. I imagine some people listen to you, and they think, goodness, maybe I'm possessed. Maybe that's what's wrong with me. I'm kind of addicted to pornography, or I get really angry at my girlfriend or my children. I guess, how does somebody know that they're not, in case there's a bunch of people watching right now and they're all terrified that they're possessed because they exhibit negative behaviors?

I mean, they might be, but how do you know? Well, the devil can propose, but he can't impose. Again, think of with Eve, here's the here's the fruit. You know, most people think it's an apple. The Bible doesn't say it's an apple, but we'll just say that it is because that's what most people think. He proposed. He didn't force her to take a bite. So the devil is always out there looking for an opportunity to tempt us, but we can say no. And the way that we can say no is being strong in our faith. You know, there's the devil tempting Jesus at the beginning of his public ministry.

And then Jesus responded by throwing scripture, you know, not by bread alone does man live, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. So the power of the word of God is, you know, can never be underestimated. It's Evagrius of Pontus. Yes, I love that book. Talking Back? Talking Back. When the devil is trying to trip you up, talk back,

but talk back with the words of Scripture. That's what Jesus did, and he teaches us the important lesson. So I don't think we should ever go around worried that somehow we're all possessed. Certainly the devil is trying to trip us up. But if we're remaining solid and strong in our faith— I could even see that being a temptation, the temptation the devil wants us to think we're possessed because you could fall into a sort of hopelessness

or that you're no longer in control of your own actions or life. And there always has to be a good distinction too. I mean, the notion that the devil made me do it. I mean, we all have personal responsibility. So there always needs to be a distinction between misuse of our free will and the culpability that we bear rather than just trying to blame everything on the devil. All right. What I think we're going to do, Joseph, is take a three-minute break.

And then when we come back, we're going to take some questions from our viewers. Cool. a three minute break and then when we come back we're going to take some questions from our our viewers cool Thank you. so Thank you. so so G'day and welcome back to this interview with Father Vincent Lampert about, did I say that right? Lampert? Yes. About exorcisms and the demonic. Before we delve into the second part of our conversation, I want to say thank you to Catholic Chemistry, which is an excellent online dating service that will help you find a Catholic husband or a Catholic wife. It was started by a friend of mine, Chuck Gallucci. Him and I used to work together at Catholic Answers. This is an excellent website for those who are serious about their Catholic faith and are serious

about finding a Catholic spouse. So go click the link below to Catholic Chemistry and you can start a profile today and maybe meet someone. And I've known several people who have met their husband or wife on there. So maybe give it a try. Catholicchemistry.com. Again, click that link in the description below. It's kind of awkward, isn't it? I mean, we're talking about the demons and now but marriage is a sacrament and all that. Amen. I mean, the demons don't have a body. They're obviously disincarnate. Is that the word? But how do they manifest themselves? Do you ever see them, as it were? I would say that we as humans would say that they don't have a form, but certainly to God that they would.

And any time that people have seen demons, and I've seen them as well, always see them in the image of kind of a black blob almost, so to speak. Interesting. It's where, think of like a black hole. It's just complete, utter darkness. And you think about it because think of Lucifer again when Lucifer fell. Lucifer being seraphim angel closest to the throne of God, meaning he would be radiating the glory of God more than any other of God's creatures.

But when he chose to rebel against God and reject God, then he rejected God's glory. And so he's no longer receiving God's glory. So then he's in utter darkness. A good analogy I would give, I have six brothers, two sisters, but growing up, my brothers and I would take a little glow in the dark ball. You put it up against the light, and then you would turn it off, and then the ball would glow. The light is not from the ball. It's from the main source being the light bulb. But what's going to happen if it isn't constantly fed by the light bulb? Eventually, it's going to fade out. There's Lucifer, no longer fed, if you will, by the glory of God.

So he's in complete, utter darkness. And that's why when people see images of demons it's always kind of this black blob so to speak like the moon devoid of the sun correct yeah you think of saints you know you see a picture of a saint a painting or a stained glass window there's always a halo around their head well the glory they're radiating is not their own they're radiating the glory of god yeah that makes sense. All right, well, we're going to take some questions now. So if you're watching right now, by the way, great to have you here. Please do be sure to click the like button and subscribe and maybe

share this video. If you think that this is a message that needs to be heard by more people, the best way you can help us right now is not only by liking this video, but by sharing it on Facebook or Twitter. That would really help us a lot. not only by liking this video, but by sharing it on Facebook or Twitter. That would really help us a lot. We're going to take some questions now from patrons and those in the live chat to be sure that you get your question read. You might want to send it as a super chat. So Father, we've maybe have answered some of these because some of these questions came in prior. You're welcome to take another kick at them or go at them. Let's see here. Benjamin Handelman says, I don't have my glasses.

Is there like, and I think you've answered this, is there like a special exorcist club or union or like conference where they meet up and share tips? That is the International Association based in Rome. One does not have to belong to it. So I like to belong to the group because, again, they bring in some excellent theologians, and it's an opportunity to connect with other exorcists throughout the world. I mean, I've gotten calls, people reaching out to me for help from the Central African Republic, from Zimbabwe, from Canada, Argentina, Norway, you name it. So

belonging to that organization and knowing priests in other parts of the world helps me to direct people to someone in their locality who can perhaps give them the help that they need. This might be a difficult question to answer, but do the demons seem to be more active in certain countries than others? Again, that might be difficult to answer because if you don't have priests who are actively ministering in a certain region, you probably wouldn't know. Your comment made me think of why—earlier you had said, why does it that exorcisms have to be repeated over a period of time? that exorcisms have to be repeated or over a period of time.

And my experience is that there's a difference between exorcisms performed in the non-Christian world and in the apostate world. So the non-Christian world would be where people have never heard the good news of Jesus Christ. In those cases, when people hear the good news, demons, exorcisms are immediate and effective. But in the apostate world where people knew the person of Jesus Christ but then rejected him, it does seem that demons have a greater hold on these folks. So you look at the United States today or the Western world, I mean, Western civilization was built by Christianity, and yet many people today are turning our backs on Christianity. So that may be why it does seem that the devil is having the upper hand. Interesting. Joe, any questions? Yeah, we have a super chat from Capturing Christianity. Hey, Capturing Christianity, your boy Cameron, who's about to become Catholic.

I'm just joking. I'm sorry I keep doing that, Cameron. What's his question? He said, Father Lampert, I want to have you back on Capturing Christians to review popular exorcist movies. No, this is not okay. Cameron, you cannot come into my live stream and advertise your channel, okay? So, anyway, apparently Cameron Batuzzi wants you back on his show to review exorcism films.

Anyway, very good, Cameron. Anyone else? Yeah. Austin Adams said, Father Lampard is the best and God bless. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, I'll go here, but if you have one, maybe just kind of lift your hand up so I know that there's one there. This one comes from Emily Mole. Thank you for being a patron, Emily. She says, Is it true that if something was a pathway to the demonic, Harry Potter, homeopathy, other alternative medicines, etc. I guess we'd have to debate whether or not they were or decide whether they were.

But it would be listed in the records of past exorcisms. There's a current debate on if homeopathy is permissible for Catholics due to the ritualistic method of creating the remedies and its roots in the Freemasons. One person is claiming it's okay and not an open door to the demonic because it hasn't been listed in an exorcism since its creation 200 years ago. I'm not sure if that makes sense to you. Do you get the gist of that? The gist is, are there many things that could be an entry point for the demonic? You look at different types of literature. The person mentioned Harry Potter. Are there some medicinal practices that could be?

And that's why there's so much debate on these issues in the world of exorcism and, again, the opportunity to come together and constantly grow. You know, exorcist, you know, we're not a part of the magisterium of the church. So, you know, we're not the main teaching body. We can share our experiences, what we've encountered, but there's a big difference between the experiences that we've had and what is official church teaching. So there's many things like this that the jury may still be out on, but I think they're being debated and discussed right now. Everything from, like you talked about, the souls of the damned showing up during an exorcism, debates on generational curses.

That's always a big one. So there's many elements that are still being discussed from a theological viewpoint. And right now we just don't have those answers. I mean, I find it, I don't want to be lax, but I do think that sometimes certain activities get associated with the occult. And then Catholics drop the whole thing. So, you know, homeopathy, I'm not sure what she means by that. But suppose she included in this things like using essential oils

It's like how could using lavender? You know oil be a bad thing and I can imagine somebody saying well because these people over there are using it Which doesn't seem to me to be a compelling argument for why we need to discard the use of essential oils to me one of the ways that I like to look at things is is It inherently evil Yeah, is it inherently evil? Yeah. Is it inherently evil? If it isn't inherently evil, I mean, an item could be cursed.

I had a lady tell me one time that she was working with a priest and strange things were happening. And it was determined that these dishes, antique dishes, had been cursed. So they destroy them, which to me was kind of crazy because the dishes aren't inherently evil. You know, if something has been cursed, we don't destroy it. If a person has been cursed, we don't destroy them. We would bless them. We would pray.

So to me, the question would be, is something inherently evil? Now, let's go back to earlier. Magic, all magic is inherently evil. You think of Adam and Eve, you know, the apple wasn't inherently evil. It was used for the wrong purpose. But for me, the litmus test is always, is the item in question inherently evil? Okay, we have another question? Yeah, we have several more super chats. Luis asks, Father Lampert, what is Mary's role in the moment of liberation? Father Lampert says this question, what is Mary's role in the moment of liberation, I suppose,

as it pertains to exorcisms? Well, the church recognizes that our Blessed Mother is a very powerful ally for anyone who's up against the forces of evil. And why is that the case? You know, you think of Genesis 3.15. You know, she's going to crush Satan's head. And so it's Mary who reverses the no of Eve. So there in the garden, you know, Eve gives in to the temptation from the serpent and says no to god but there's mary in the annunciation with the archangel gabriel this is god's plan and how

does she respond i am the handmaid of the lord let it be done to me according to your word and then our blessed mother then has that unique role to play in the incarnation, becomes the queen of heaven. So the Blessed Mother is a very powerful ally. Even some of the fathers of the church would talk about the pride of Satan, but also the fact that he could not accept that human flesh would be elevated higher than himself. Certainly God taking on human form, but then our Blessed Mother becoming Queen of Heaven. Do you call upon the saints' intercessions in exorcisms?

Yes, it's a part of the rite itself, the litany of the saints. And you tend to find in your own experience that calling upon Mary's intercession is more powerful? Absolutely, absolutely. And even during the litany of the saints during an exorcism, there may be certain names of saints Absolutely, absolutely. And even during the litany of the saints during an exorcism, there may be certain names of saints that elicit a very strong negative response from the demon. And during the ritual, I will take note of all of this. And then parts of the ritual then could be repeated that seem to be pretty efficacious, more efficacious than others.

We have a question here before we get to that from Josh Payment, who's a patron, who says, what unique kinds of spiritual warfare is one at risk of when not in a state of grace, as opposed to the kinds of spiritual warfare any baptized Catholic in a state of grace and sacramental life is at risk of? So is there a difference between the spiritual warfare and unbaptized personal experiences as opposed to someone in a state of grace experiences? Yeah, that made me just think of going back to what I said earlier about a non-Christian

versus the apostate world. You know, the end of the judgment scene, the end of Matthew's gospel, going to be separated into the sheeps and the goats, and the goats are going to get off with fewer stripes because the sheep are going to be judged more severely because they're going to have known how they should have lived their life but did not do it. So that's why the state of grace is so important, and recognizing our sinfulness, we're back to the

importance again of the sacrament of reconciliation. What are some of the most powerful prayers a layperson can pray when combating the demonic? Well, there's two different types of exorcism prayers. There would be an imperative or major exorcism, which is the command given to the demon. And then there are supplicating prayers, which are prayers addressed to God. The new rite of exorcism that came out in 1998, released in 1999, has supplicating prayers in it. The old rite did not. And the purpose of the new rite was to put the overall pastoral care of people dealing with the demonic in the hands of every parish priest.

But any baptized person can pray for someone else. But it's always important to make sure that the prayers are directed to God. An example would be, God, see how your servant is afflicted. Come to their aid and give them the peace and freedom that they seek. But again, it's always directed to God. And Cardinal Ratzinger back in 1986 made it very clear when he was in charge of the congregation of the doctrine of the faith

became Pope Benedict but only a priest authorized by his bishop should be giving commands to demons anyone else should be doing supplicating prayers so in a sense as a priest in persona Christi, you can kind of command the demon by your own authority, as it were, and the authority of Christ, which you represent in that moment, whereas a layperson doesn't get to have that, like, I command you.

Is that what you're saying? But they have to kind of call upon God. Yes, and again, that's what the church is teaching us. And to me, if one believes they're doing battle against Satan, being disobedient to the church and trying to fight the devil is a bad combination. But the St. Michael prayer would be something you would encourage people to use? St. Michael prayer. I like the chaplet of St. Michael.

I like that prayer a lot. The prayer of St. Joseph, terror of demons. This is the year of St. Joseph. There's a powerful prayer. The Hail Mary is a powerful prayer. The Lord's Prayer. I mean, to me, it's the very, I don't know, ordinary prayers that are part of the deposit. That aren't so ordinary after all.

You know, like you might think, oh, the Hail Mary. Yeah, okay, what's another prayer I can pray? Like what's something more special? But as you say, when you commanded that demon try and pray the Hail Mary, you saw the power of the Hail Mary at that point, huh? Yes. Yeah. Joe?

Yeah, this is a really good question. Jason asked if there's a connection between pornography and demonic influence. I think I might add if you have any experiences specifically to relate to that. Right. For those in case they couldn't hear, Joe, is there a connection between pornography and demonic influences? And do you have any experiences of that you might share? And I think pornography reduces the human person to just an object.

And we'll go back again to what we've talked about earlier, that the human person is created in the image and likeness of God. So there's something sacred about our nature. And I think the demonic component of pornography is it just reduces humanity to a commodity, an object, if you will. It's almost like the person consuming pornography wants to do to that body what the demon does to the body in possession, namely make it a puppet, in a sense, for my own selfish gratification. And I think addictive behavior, that could be another entry point, whether it's pornography, alcohol, drugs, whatever it might be.

Addictive behavior could be another entry point for the demonic into people's lives. And oftentimes I was going to say that the devil is so subtle that we may be caught up in addictive behavior and don't even fully grasp the gravity of what we're involved in. This is my second espresso. Another good question there? Yeah. Based Byzantine asks uh can watching movies like the conjuring series be spiritually detrimental especially if they're using real names of demons oh did you get that so based byzantine asks can watching certain movies

like the conjure i guess which is a horror. Conjuring series. Conjuring series, which would be problematic. But the devil plays on a person's memory and imagination. So if these are the things we're putting into our minds, then the devil can use those against us. But what would you say, though, about things like the Lord of the Rings, which contains some very kind of horrible descriptions of how orcs look and what Mordor is like? I think that's where evil is so subtle, is that we're being impacted on maybe a subconscious level that we don't even really

fully understand what we're bombarding ourselves with. I know that the fear is that somebody would say, well, I don't want to expose myself to anything that could be in any way uncomfortable, so I'm just going to watch Hallmark movies and that's it. And that seems to me to be hell, actually. But, you know, like I wouldn't want someone to go to that extreme. I mean, you've already kind of acknowledged that the exorcism is a decent movie, which kind of depicts exorcism. We can talk about that in a minute. So presumably if somebody can watch a horror movie like The Exorcist, then horror movies aren't intrinsically evil. No, I guess the question would be whether or not it leads somebody to have a fascination with evil.

And of course he's referring not to the exorcism or the exorcist, but something different, yeah. Because I think there's a big fascination today with a lot of these movies on television and programs that are meant to scare and terrify. But again, if we're going to put these images into our heads, we have to realize that the devil could use that to instill fear and terror into our lives. The devil is always looking for an opportunity to spread fear. Yeah. Because when you're afraid, what are you lacking?

Hope. Yeah, hope. Hope is a key ingredient of the Christian faith, and the devil wants to rob us of that, because if we're robbed of hope and we're in fear, we're back in that world of discouragement. We have a question here, and this kind of gets to what I want us to address maybe a bit more at length, if you don't mind. We can take the wind out of Cameron Bertuzzi's sails by addressing it here, so you don't have to go to his channel. Sergio Felon says,

your favorite movie about exorcism, demons, or what movie do you think is the most accurate? Well, I have to tell you that I don't ever watch any of these movies. All right. Next question. The reason is that there's really no point to watching these movies.

I see this. This is work. This would be like me going home and watching about a dude doing podcasting. But, yeah, I really don't. You know, I think I saw the movie The Exorcist when it came out. I was in high school. So you never had any kind of desire to kind of go back and watch it?

No, absolutely not. I do think it's cool that when there's that meme, right, that everybody makes fun of the Catholic Church until somebody's possessed, and then no one's calling the first Baptist pastor up the road, you know? You know, Pastor John or whatever. They're going straight to Catholicism. There's a great one I saw, too. It says, you know, this is what everybody thinks I deal with.

And then you see Linda Blair spinning in pea soup flying out. But this is reality, and then you just see the priest praying with somebody. Yeah. Although some of the things you've described sound closer to the pea soup thing. Well, those things are there. But again, really, an exorcism at its core is a prayer. Yeah. Praying with somebody in a very profound way who's had an encounter with the demonic

so that they can have a more powerful encounter with God. Because we should never believe that somehow the devil and God are on the same playing field. The devil is still a creature, and a creature can never be on the same playing field as God the Creator. Yes, Joe. Yeah, Aaron asks, Hey, Father Lambert, is there any truth about the stories of John Paul II and Pope Benedict performing exorcisms, as well as Pius XII? Any truth to the stories of Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II performing exorcisms?

Yes, there is truth to that. So there's—people probably see these stories online, but John Paul II, somebody—they had brought to him a lady, I I think at a Wednesday audience that they thought was possessed. And then afterwards, he did do an exorcism prayer on her. That's the same way with Pope Benedict. I think there's even examples out there of Pope Francis doing exorcism prayers as well. How should we—what do you think of holy salt, holy water in the life of an average lay Christian? How should we be using these things?

I think they can be powerful sacramentals. So I get requests all the time for people, you know, the older ritual has the blessing of salt and the blessing of water. I think the danger would be, though, if somebody starts thinking it's all the Catholic stuff. Again, I would just go back to those things are all important, but let's make sure that Christ is at the center and the core, and then let all these things have their proper place in the church. Ryan Casey says, how important is it to bless all food or drink, including snacks before consuming, in relation to demonic curses, attachments, and the like? I think we bless our food, first of all, to thank God for the food. But prayers also were a form of

exorcism, taking something from profane use and making it sacred. So I think it's important to do that. I also, at the same time, will say, let's go back to what I said earlier. Let's not start seeing the demonic everywhere. Yeah, this must be tough for you. You must encounter a lot of people who are saying things like that, like, oh, I had a snack, and I'm not saying Ryan Casey is saying this, but I had a snack and I forgot to pray grace before it. I mean, how do you gently encourage these people to calm down, for lack

of a better way of speaking? I think, you know, I think of the call to pray always, which means to always have an awareness of God. And I think, so we can be praying very deliberate prayers, but we also pray by the manner of our life, how we choose to live. Probably throughout the day, I have a prayer that I really like to say. I probably say it thousands of times a day. It's always on the tip of my tongue, and it's, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, have mercy on me, a sinner. It's just to have that awareness of the presence of God every moment of every day. It's to recognize God for who God is

and to recognize myself for who I am and my need for God. So to me, if we have that awareness of God, maybe there's a time we forget to say a prayer or whatever, but that doesn't mean that all of a sudden the devil then jumped in. Sometimes people will say to me, you know, oh, Father, you know, I forgot to do this, and I'm worried about the devil. And I'm like, well, how many times have you gone to Mass and received a blessing? So why do you think that somehow that one little curse

or one thing that you forgot... We're giving too much power to Satan. ...has now negated all the graces that you've received? Yeah. I've been thinking about how Christians often try to understand their lives and their Christian vocation while excluding the demonic. And I thought to myself, trying to understand Christianity without reference to the demonic is like trying to understand the Lord of the Rings without reference to Sauron. How would you explain the Lord of the

Rings? You would say there was this ring and it was like not conducive to the flourishing of Hobbiton. And so they got rid of it. And then they lived happily ever after. And in a sense, that's right. But we've missed a big chunk of the story. And I think likewise, you can think of Christians, you say, well, what's Christianity about? And they'd say something like, well, God loves us and we separated ourselves from him through sin. And so he came and paid the debt he didn't know because we owed a debt we couldn't pay and now we're in relationship with him and can enjoy him forever and again that's fine especially if you're in an elevator but it's like you've left out this entire chunk of the fact that there are demons that want you to burn in hell for all

eternity and I wonder if the reason we become so tired with Christianity or bored with it is that it's like we're just looking for spiritual comfort as opposed to realizing, you know, we're in a war here. You know, this is not Caddyshack. We're in Saving Private Ryan. Yeah, we need substance. You know, we live in an age where we want instant gratification or quick messages, you know. But when it comes to our relationship with God, I mean, it needs to go deeper. I mean, theology is so important, you know. That's why even, you know, as a Catholic, it can't just be going to Mass on Sunday.

When somebody says to me that, you know, the Mass is boring, it's the same old thing, I'm like, well, tell me more about your spirituality and what you're doing. Or I will give the analogy that if you're getting nothing out of the Mass, would you put into it? Be like going into a bank and saying, I'm here to make a withdrawal. And they look at you and say, you don't have an account. You've never made a deposit, so there's nothing to take out. And I think it's the same way with our faith, but it can't just be fast food, so to speak, instant gratification. How do we spend time in reading the lives of the saints? I had a professor one time that said that when you read sacred scripture

and there's something that you're not clear about, turn to the lives of the saints because they fill in the gaps. And I think that's why the communion of saints and the saints are so important. But again, it's taking time to read something of substance and to learn about our faith and take it to a deeper level. You know, if all we ate was fast food every day, we'd all starve, you know, from malnutrition. But we need to take our relationship with God to deeper levels. That's true of any relationship. You know, if you don't take it to a deeper level, eventually it's going to end. You know, if you're married and you and

your wife just talk about the weather every day, that relationship's going to go nowhere. It has to go deeper. That's a good point, because I could say, no, well, I'm dedicating time every day to speak to my wife. What about the weather? Here's a question for you. We often talk about these things as being obstacles to the development of the Christian faith, such as pornography, which is obviously something intrinsically evil. intrinsically evil. We might think of other things too, like that aren't necessarily intrinsically evil, like, you know, soap shows on television or something like that, or secular music or something like that. But what about the sort of outrage media that's sort of 24-7 pumping through all televisions and podcasts right now? I mean, like, I enjoy listening occasionally to Ben

Shapiro, who you may or may not have heard of. And he's a conservative commentator that often points to the craziness that's taking place in our society. And I sometimes like listening to him because I think, oh, bloody hell, I'm not insane. I knew I wasn't insane. So when Joe Biden seems to indicate that a parent should have the right to give their child hormone blockers or maybe even have their genitalia disfigured and cut off. Like this is bloody freaking bananas, right? And so you listen to someone like Ben Shapiro and you're like, yes, I knew it was crazy. That can be helpful. Or if you're on the other side of the aisle and you listen to more kind of left-leaning kind of commentary, it can suck you in so that I'm not

reading the Bible and I'm not really praying the rosary and I don't have time to go to daily mass, but I'm listening to hours of political commentary. I mean, how is that? Have you thought much about how the devil could use this to sort of keep us away from him? Well, the devil is an opportunist. He may not be the cause of every problem, but he can take advantage. So you look at the division in our country today, the devil can use that as an opportunity to advance his own kingdom. You you look at the division in our country today, the devil can use that as an opportunity to advance his own kingdom. You can look at COVID-19. The devil may not be the cause of that, but he's, again, an opportunist. He can use that as a way to get people into isolation. Good. So people have to be self-reflective in a sense.

Yeah, because again, the human human person we're made for community yeah you know if you want to punish somebody what do you do you isolate them go to your room sit in the corner yeah go to solitary confinement as a parent of four kids i would love to be sent to my room but yes i get your point yeah i always made that comment too that children you could tell them to take a nap they cry because they don't want to adults cry because they can't take a nap exactly like please i part of me would like and i well i won't say that because i'll offend everybody uh any other questions uh around there otherwise i have some here yeah i have a quick question from jen who asked if there's any other

way that uh father celebrates after an exorcism ah yes yes so for those who are watching live right now i missed that uh earlier father talked about a victory he had with somebody he'd been working with for a while and went and got a shake from Dairy Queen. Is there any other way you celebrate when you experience victories in your ministry of exorcism? Or is that it, just Dairy Queen? Well, celebrating, giving glory to God. Because again, it's what God has done. It's God's achievement. It's not mine. Certainly not at all. So, you know, it's what God has done. It's God's achievement. It's not mine, certainly not at all. So it's always give God the glory. I think of John 3.30, the words of St. John the Baptist, he must increase and I must decrease to recognize that everything is about the honor and the glory of God. And the other reality is being a parish priest. I mean, I've literally gone from

an exorcism to done a wedding all in the same day. So you're talking about just trying to shift gears right away. So it could be an exorcism, a wedding, go right into the weekend mass schedule. So sometimes there just really isn't the opportunity to celebrate, so to speak, but to go right into the next thing that needs to be done. Here's a good question from patron Paul Binner. He says, Does being demonically possessed at death close off heaven for you?

Can a possessed person go to confession or would they not have any desire to? So these are a number of questions, so take what you like. Would a possessed person have any desire to pray the rosary, or would they desire to receive the Eucharist? I assume reception of the Eucharist wouldn't automatically expel any demons, or we wouldn't have much use for exorcists.

Sorry for all the questions. I only intended the first one, and then I got on a roll. So the first question had to do with, does being demonically possessed at death close off heaven for you? Well, possession is always only in a physical sense. So there can never be an actual union between a demon and a human soul. So when a person dies, then that connection with the demonic ends, because it's always physical, because the human soul is reserved to God alone. Now, the devil can try to get us to sell our souls, so to speak, but that's a domain that's reserved purely for God. So here's a question. Can someone be possessed and not be in a state of mortal sin?

I thought you were going gonna say that can someone be possessed and not be aware of it well no can someone be possessed and not be in a state of mortal sin i think so i think that's kind of what he's asking like he's assuming if you're possessed you are in a state of mortal sin therefore if you did die while possessed you're automatically going to hell i would say that just because one's possessed doesn't mean you're in the case of mortal sin. Because I'm sure you work with people who repent of certain things but are still being attacked. And some people may have invited the evil in indirectly.

Maybe they were doing something that they shouldn't have been doing and they didn't really fully understand the gravity of their actions. And there is such a thing as, this is where I thought he might go with it, there is something known as perfect possession, whereby the person enters into a harmonious relationship with the demon, so there's no longer any need to manifest because the person has surrendered to the demon. I had an elderly man one time, his family had reached out to me, and they were Christians of another

faith tradition, but the dad had never embraced any faith in God whatsoever and spent his life cultivating relationships with demons. So I did go to visit with him because they were concerned what will happen to him when he dies. And he looked at me and said, Father, I know my family's concerned about me, but it's my desire to spend eternity with these demons that I befriended. He goes, I have no desire to be in eternity with God or in heaven. I would prefer to be in hell with these demons that have become my friends. What did you say to that? That's crazy talk.

But again, we all have free will. Yeah. So now we can pray for him that he has some conversion and grows in understanding. You know, we think of the good thief on the cross. Yeah. As long as we got breath in us, we can always call out to the Lord. And if we're sincere, God will hear us. Has your exorcism ministry confirmed what the church teaches about hell and hell being

eternal and souls actually going there? I'm sure you believed this prior to this, you understand, but has it sort of fortified that belief? Oh, absolutely. The interesting thing, though, too, we talked about the souls of the damned and whatnot, but I always also reflect on the fact that the church, we declare saints, but we don't declare sinners. So it's not like we say there's a list of people. There's not an anti-canonization. That's right.

We don't say these people we know to be beyond a doubt in hell. We just don't know. Because, again, to understand the depth of the mercy of God is beyond us. But we do believe there are people that are in know, are in heaven. It wasn't necessarily that they were perfect people, but they came to terms with their own sinfulness and their need for God, and they grew in holiness and virtue. I asked this a moment ago, but what's the, if you don't mind me asking, what's the prayer you pray when you feel tempted or attacked? Is there a specific kind of prayer you turn to or not really? Invoking the Holy Spirit.

Come Holy Spirit, huh? Invoking the Holy Spirit. And then I mentioned earlier that the chaplet of St. Michael the Archangel is one that I pray every day. So I do like that one. That's an appropriate chaplet for an exorcist. Joe, any more questions we got here? Yeah, Chris asks, Father, I've heard St. Athanasius say that scripture passage demons

hate most is, may God arise and let his enemies be scattered. Is this true, or have you used it in exorcisms? Do you mind just kind of reformulating that for those who didn't hear him? So it's the question about St. Athanasius, and the quote again was, God arises. May God arise, may his enemies be scattered, may those who hate him flee before his holy face. Yes. So I would say when I do an exorcism, I stick with the ritual itself. I don't improvise at all when I'm doing the rite itself. Because again, if I started improvising, then it's what I'm doing. And I want to make sure that I'm always doing the prayer of the church. So if I'm just praying with somebody and I'm in that initial stage of trying to reach moral

certitude, there may be things like the prayer of St. Athanasius that I would use. But once I reach the point that I'm going to do the official prayer of the church, then I'm going to use the official prayer in its form and not modify it in any way. Yeah. Barbara Goss, thank you for being a patron, says, how do exorcists or the people who request exorcisms, now we've addressed this, but it might be helpful to recircle it, recircle it, circle back, yeah, differentiate between the demonic and mental health issues? Are the two frequently found together, as is common with addictive behavior and mental health problems? Some say we are nearing or already at a mental health crisis in our country, but is some much of this demonic activity? I think it could be a combination of both. Is it always mental illness, 100%? Is it always

demonic, 100%? Or is it possible that both are present at the same time? Did the person experience a demonic episode that caused the mind to fracture, to just try to understand what it was going through. I think that's why it's so important to work with mental health professionals. I think that's why it's always important, too, if somebody believes they're dealing with a demonic or they're just not certain what's going on, for the person to go and see their parish priest, go to confession, and even ask for the anointing of the sick. You know, I think the anointing of the sick is probably one of the least utilized sacraments of the Church. You know, Catholics today still think that you have to have one foot in the grave

to be dying to be anointed. But for me, to be anointed, you know, you could be suffering spiritually, mentally, physically, and just turning to the sacrament of the anointing of the sick mentally, physically, and just turning to the sacrament of the anointing of the sick can be a powerful way to receive God's grace. You know, I worked with a man one time that I told him that it wasn't demonic. He was convinced that it was. I was just going to ask you that. Have you had people who've said, no, this is demonic, and you're like, it's not. You're dealing with something else.

And I told him, in my opinion, I said, I think this is— and he already had a caseworker and a psychiatrist that he was working with. So I arranged a meeting for the four of us to meet. I just didn't want to say, it's not demonic, go away. So I met with him, his caseworker, and his psychiatrist. And I said to him, it's my opinion that you're not possessed. And his psychiatrist looked at him and said, father says you're not possessed. What is psychiatrist looked at him and said, Father says you're not possessed. What is your response? And his response was actually intriguing.

He said, I'm disappointed. He goes, if it's the demonic, then I can have an understanding why I act the way that I do. Oh, bless him. He said to the psychiatrist, you can say that I'm schizophrenic and give me that label but you can't tell me why if it's the demonic then I have my why mm-hmm yeah that's good Joe anymore okay well hey this has been a pleasure anything else you want to address before we begin to wrap up that we haven't oh we've talked about a lot do you mind passing me that book there right under the Bible? Nope.

Next one. Yes, you've heard of that book. I want to show people this book we have here. So for those who are watching, and I'll be sure to put a link in the description below, Father Vincent Lampert wrote a book called Exorcism, the Battle Against Satan and His Demons. So we'll put a link in the description below. Hopefully you can click that, go over to Emmaus Road Press and buy this book. How did this book come about, and what's the reception been like? The reception has been good. So a number of years ago, I gave a talk at St. Louis University,

and there was a priest that works with Dr. Scott Hahn, where they'd reach out to different folks every year to try to get them to share their experiences and their faith series. So this priest asked me if I would consider sharing my thoughts on the world of exorcism. I thought, when would I ever find the time to do that? So during COVID lockdown. Yes, I thought that's what you were going to say. So there's an example of... Yeah, you can use that for good.

That's right. The devil believes that he can use something for bad, but we can always use it for good. That's right. The devil believes that he can use something for bad, but we can always use it for good. So then I use that opportunity to put together my thoughts and just to give people a glimpse into the world of exorcism. Now, here's a question, because we kind of began this interview by saying that if you're a priest who wants to be an exorcist, that might be a sign that you shouldn't be. But on the other hand, I could see a priest watching right now, and they're like, for goodness sake, like I'm'm seeing this stuff I'm seeing people in my diocese or in my parish who are I think manifesting and there doesn't seem to be anyone in my diocese who's taking this seriously so so what am I to do you see because the priest might think well you've just told me that if I want to

be an exorcist I shouldn't be do I just then approach the bishop and have him appoint somebody? What's a priest to do who might be watching right now? I think if there's a priest and he's interested, he should convey that to his bishop and at least say that this is something that he has a level of interest in and he's willing to work with people that believe they're dealing with that. Unfortunately today there's a lot of people, many Catholics, that believe they're dealing with the demonic,'s a lot of people, many Catholics, that believe they're dealing with the demonic, and when they reach out to the church, doors are closed in their

face, phones are hung up, calls are never returned. They're just ignored. And at least if there's a point person in every diocese, then there's a place where people can go with their concerns. You know, we have a protocol in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis that I helped put together. So it's an archdiocesan protocol. And every priest has it. So if somebody shows up at the rectory or the parish office, they believe that they're dealing with a demonic, here's a step-by-step that they would go through, you know, before they would talk to me. You know, just because you have a headache doesn't mean you're calling a neurologist and say, I need brain surgery tomorrow. You know, it's again,

talk to the parish priest who's on the front lines who can provide that ongoing pastoral care. And you know, initially the priest then had the person go to confession, anoint them. So just the ordinary aspects of the faith should be the place where we begin with most people. And then perhaps it reaches the point where they may be referred to the exorcist or the priest in the diocese that's authorized to investigate these matters. And it may be true that bishops just don't know which of their priests may have some level of interest. So at least letting the bishop know that. Yeah, yeah. And there's many opportunities.

There's an exorcism school now here in the United States, which wasn't the case when I was appointed. So there's a school where priests can be trained to be exorcists. There's some great conferences that are held here in the United States. So there are opportunities, even if a priest doesn't have the official mandate from his bishop, to get some education, to be well-informed, to know how to offer pastoral care to people who are afflicted. Other than this book, which you wrote, again, we'll put a link in the description below,

is there another book that you would recommend people read if they were interested in learning more about the church's prayer and exorcism? I like Father Gabriel Amor's books. Yeah. What are those called? Do you remember? I think Ignatius published them, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, An Exorcist Explains the Demonic.

And An Exorcist Shares His, you know, There's More Stories. Something like that, yeah. The one that, you know, Father Amorth died in 2016, and one came out just right after or shortly before he died. But it's a very good one, and it's The Exorcist Explains the Demonic. And I think it puts things in a very good one, and the exorcist explains the demonic, and I think it puts things in a very clear and concise manner that it's easy to read and understand.

Okay, how many people do we have watching right now, Joe? 1,190. That's ridiculous. That's beautiful. Glory to Jesus Christ. We have almost 1,200 people watching right now, so they must be interested in this topic in some way. So I thought it might be helpful if we close this interview

with perhaps you leading us in a prayer. I don't know if that's putting you on the spot too much, but maybe a prayer to grow in union with God. Give me this book that you have. There's a prayer in the back that I want to use. Hey, look at that. Because we are in the year of St. Joseph. So this is the prayer I want to offer.

So we'll pray the prayer and then we'll wrap up. So thanks for watching, everybody. So this is the prayer of St. Joseph, Terror of Demons. In the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, amen. St. Joseph, Terror of Demons, cast your solemn gaze upon the devil and all his minions and protect us with your mighty staff. Amen. Amen. by God's grace no demon dares approach while you are near so we beg of you always be near to us Amen Amen

Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen Father Vincent, thank you kindly for coming down and being on the show Yep, my pleasure Awesome That was great សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា Thank you. you