Pints With Aquinas - Marriage, Todays Culture, and Catholic Living w/ Jackie Francois Angel

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Jackie and Bobby's Podcast: https://jackieandbobby.com A Catholic Marriage Devotional from Jackie and Her Husband: https://www.amazon.com/Forever-Marriage-Devotional-Angel/dp/0819827436 OUR COMMUNITY Locals: https://mattfradd.locals.com/support Special thanks to all our supporters for your continued support! You don't have to give anything, yet you do. THANK YOU! SPONSORS Parler: http://parler.com MY Parler: https://parler.com/mattfradd Hallow: https://hallow.com/matt MERCH PWA Swag: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com SOCIAL Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/pintswithaquinas Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/312eXMI31liKUHSx6U5p1H Parler: https://parler.com/mattfradd Website: https://www.pintswithaquinas.com

Jackie Francois, Matthew Frad. Do you know when I first met you, I kept calling you Jackie Franco. Yeah. I have people call me Jacques, even though that's not how I spell my name. I don't spell it with a Q. Do you really remember me calling you Jackie Franco or are you just like, I can see how someone would do that. What was funny is I guess I got it wrong. And then my wife's like, is Jackie Francois?

I'm like, no, it's not Cameron because I called her that said it was Jackie Francois, which is the exact opposite of what happened. I thought you just thought it was funny. Francois. I have people call me like Jacque and, you know, it's a calling. Jackie Francois Angel? So Francois is my middle name now. Just because people still. Same thing with my wife. She took last name and middle name.

Yeah. Yeah. So no hyphen. Just Angel's my last name. It's a great last name. Dude. It's really good. I married well, man. You know, Bobby Angel. What a champion. What his initials are B.A.

Literally B.A. So it's amazing. Yeah, well, it's good to have you. Thank you for flying in. How are you doing? Well, yeah, it's far. I came in in the fall leaves. It's very exciting because Dallas is very brown right now.

And so all the grass dies in. Yeah, it's still green right now, but it dies and it's very exciting because Dallas is very brown right now. And so all the grass dies in. Yeah, it's still green right now, but it dies and it's very sad. There's something about the grass that goes brown for some reason. Yeah, it's not California. It's a different type of grass. Yes. And here. Oh, it doesn't die here. I don't think so. It stays green. But there's a type of grass in like Atlanta. It's a specific type of grass. I think in Winton Neal's looking at me incredulously that goes, it just goes brown. It's really ugly. It is. It's not crab grass. It's so cool that you knew that. Yeah. It's like a special grass and then it comes back to life magically in the spring.

Amazing. Yeah. Um, where were you before Dallas? We were in California, Orange County. That's where I was born and raised. Bobby's from Florida. That's where I met you in Ventura. When I was a youth minister up in Ventura. Buena, San Buena Ventura. Okay. Bonaventure. I know, I did not know. I just thought of Jim Carrey.

Right? Ace Ventura? Yeah, I didn't realize, because obviously a lot of the cities in California are named after saints. Yeah. San Francisco was St. Francis of Assisi. Our dang capital is Sacramento, blessed sacrament. And Los Angeles is our lady queen of angels. It's literally like, so California needs to be taken back for Jesus.

Amen. But Ventura is Buena Ventura, San Buena Ventura, Bonaventura. That's amazing. Big fan of Bonaventura. So I met you back in the day when I was a wee youth minister. Yes. And you and Cameron came in. I remember the met you back in the day when I was a wee youth minister. Yes. And you and Cameron came in. I remember the moment you guys came in that church we were rehearsing. And that's right.

Because that was about 16 years ago, Jackie. Not crazy. We were just children. I remember because my wife and I had just got married a couple of months before and we were staying at Kate and Aaron's. Yeah. Yeah. And they had rats in the walls. Oh. So we showed up like, yeah, just heads up. There's rats in the walls. Templeton is just running around. Yeah. Yeah. And they had rats in the walls. Oh, so we showed up like, yeah, just heads up.

There's rats in the walls. Templeton that's just running around. Yeah. And we were like laying in bed, hearing scratches. It was terrifying. What were you doing? What were you doing back then? I was youth minister. At that parish? At that parish. For how long?

Only a year. And then I felt like God was calling me to do just through some mentors, like I was called to do full-time speaking and I was writing music. And so I got signed to a label and yeah, I've just started doing full-time speaking and singing because I was like, Lord, how are you going to take, like I love ministry and youth ministry, especially because youth and like middle schoolers, I love, they have no filter. They literally will tell you if they hate you and like you're ugly to your face. And I love just like YouTube commenters. I get just like all of them.

But pre yeah, pre social media. Like I they have no social media there in middle school. They're so great. So I love ministry. And that's where I had my real conversion. You went from they call you ugly and stuff and you loved it. I know I love because they are so brutally honest. Like I literally one time was giving a talk and God kind of pointed out this girl to me, like not showing a light on her, but

I just kept looking. I just saw her body language and how she was responding to my chastity talk. And a core member came up to me and was like, she hated your talk. I was like, I knew it. Like I could see, but I also had this like word that it was like, this girl doesn't have a father. As I'm just looking, it was like, this girl doesn't have a father. And so I go to talk to her with this corps member and say, hey, you know, what'd you think of the talk? She's like, oh, well, I thought it was interesting, you know, rolled her out, you know, and then

come to find out she had a one-year-old child and she was 15 years old and come to find out her father had left her mother when she was and then she just her mom, she's like, my mom is married to a gold digger, you know, but I saw it. It was like, God just showed, but she was just so honest. Like I hated your talk because you're talking about chastity and I have a one-year-old baby here, you know, and I'm 15 years old. So, but I appreciate that. I love when people are honest and real.

I would take that any day of the week over someone who kind of pretends to have it all together. Yeah. And is. I agree. I really love, I don't speak a lot these days, um, to teenagers. I just did recently again. I just love them. Yeah. I feel affection for them Yeah, especially the weird ones because I was slash M the weird one. Like I I was the kid who is Dying his hair and wearing heavy metal t-shirts. Really? What color was hitting everybody I did it one I died at purple once. Yes. I'm not proud of that

Yeah, this is before but you know, what's cool is since like we're roughly the same age. Yeah, we probably Everyone in like the late 90s early 2000s went through a at least the dudes did like a bleach tip. Oh, yeah shell necklace guitar It sure happened Bobby my husband also had the bleach. He was also not a swimmer He's a swimmer. They're like Bobby when I think of Bobby, I think the also had the bleach. He was also not a swimmer. He's a swimmer. But like Bobby, when I think of Bobby, I think one of the manliest man I've ever met. He's just so cool and manly. The fact that he has had bleached hair and had to shave his legs for swimming.

Sorry, Bobby, I'm telling the world. What else? What else? Why do we ever think that was cool? They would actually put a big rubber thing around your head that was perforated and then pluck the hair out and you'd sit there and then they would paint Neil is looking again incredulous. You should find an image of this just to show people what it looks like. I was looking for you with it.

You can probably find it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, I posted that image recently of me in my like wetsuit. That was definitely bleached hair. Dude, I, I, the puka shell thing. Right. So I went to the puka shells.

Oh, that's what they're called. Come on, bro. Like the surfer culture. You know, pukas. I went to world youth day in 2000 with Pope John Paul. I was like, 15. Did you really? Yes.

17. You didn't say hello. Next. I came back with three boyfriends from that trip. From different countries. When email was just beginning to be a thing. Right? Like AOL, you know. But yeah, one of them was like big on the puka shells and the bleach tips. So it totally reminds me of like 2000.

Oh my gosh. Actually, I think two of them, maybe all three of them. What do you mean all three of them? You actually found three men to converse with. I did not care about Jesus at this point in my life. I just wanted boys. So how old were you? Is it okay if I do that? I know women get weird. How old am I now? I've asked women how old they are and they want to punch me. I don't care. I'm 38. I was born in 83.

Yeah. I was born in 83. Yeah. I know you're not 38 unless you're 39. Well I'm turning my birthdays into December. I'm 30. That's amazing. Yeah. We're both 83 babies. That's cool. Yeah. So that was the era.

Yes. We were coming of age, right? As Brittany and Backstreet and NSYNC. That was like 98. I had a cassette tape with NSYNC on one side and Brittany. Or it was Backstreet. That is amazing. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. My human formation came from Oprah. It happened. I came home every. I mean, sorry. I don't mean to crap on Oprah. No, yeah. Yeah. My human formation came from Oprah. It happened. I came home every. I mean, sorry. I don't mean to crap on Oprah. No, no. I came home every day at three o'clock, turned on Oprah. I specifically remember one episode where a psychologist was on and there was a husband and wife and the wife and her kids and the wife was like,

I love my kids more than my husband. And the psychologist was like, no, no. Like your primary relationship is- On Oprah? On Oprah. Go to Oprah. I was like, ooh, attachment theory. Like, I was like, this is triangulation.

Yeah. And so I remember these things as like a 10 year old coming home and watching Oprah. But that my human formation was Saturday Night Live and Oprah because my parents had, you know, great, you know, great influence. All right. They didn't care. But I couldn't watch The Simpsons.

So I could watch SNL. It is strange. But not The Simpsons. Did you have that too? Well, first of all, is it weird to you that me in Australia on the other side of the planet is so impacted by American culture? Yeah. It's so strange.

Like most of the movies we watched, most of the music we listened to, it was all American stuff. Yeah. It's so bizarre, isn't it? Well, when you imagine if all the music people listen to here or movies they watch were from Australia, wouldn't it be weird? I know. Barbie and I went to New Zealand and they're like, Oh my gosh, do you know Taylor Swift? Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Holy crap. That was a great accent. Keep going. Okay. Let me tell you. Um, it's because one of my favorites, um, her name is Brooke Fraser. So yeah. So like in Australia, you guys are like whatever, summer, you know, but like in New Zealand, it's a bit more like sing-songy. I have never heard an American do that. No, you totally have. You just said no. No, like no American can do that. Because I listen to a lot of New Zealanders, you know. You try to say no in Australian accent. I don't want to now.

Okay. But yeah, like New Zealand's a bit more like sing songy. Yeah. Yeah, so But Bobby and I went to New Zealand and they really were like, oh my gosh, you guys are from California Yeah, you know, do you know Taylor Swift all stuff and I'm like we think of Lord of the Rings So Bobby and I got to go to Hobbiton and of course I've been there too. It's wonderful. And and we're like we think you guys are so cool and your accents in Australia You know, like we just think you guys are so cool and they're like really and they're cute because they're like other North Island It's like crap, you know, like we just think you guys are so cool. And they're like, really? And they're cute because they're like, oh, the North Island is like crap, you know, like this sounds much better, like better, you know. So, yeah. You could do a better New Zealand accent than I could.

Well, I try I try to do Australian, but it always turned into New Zealand. I just awesome. I have to learn my Australian body, right? Because I mean, Australia is probably more prominent than New Zealand as far as like TV shows and actors and things like that. So it's strange that you would get the New Zealand accent down first. I think it's because I'm better at the like Italian too. Like I was in Italy, a lady asked

me, I said, like, ake ora la mezza? And she started speaking to me in Italian, like, ah, io sono americana. Like, I don't like, non starts speaking to me in Italian, like, ah, io sono americana. Like I don't like, non capisco italiano. You know, like I don't understand, but I like the, it's the influx. I'm a musician. That's what I was going to say. As a musician, you kind of pick up. Yes, you have an ear for these things.

But not all of them. Some accents I really don't do a great job at. I've got to tell people this one more time because people in the comments section are getting confused. The reason Australia is upside down is because if Australia drew the maps instead of Europeans, that's how it would have looked since we have no reference point to what is actually north and what is actually south. Right.

It's not like we know what north is. We know what north is because Europeans wrote the maps. So people who are from Australia keep getting offended Could you please turn it upside down and then I have faithful YouTube commenters who explain from episode, you know Five months ago he expects that's when we did it. So everyone watching right now, please school everybody Who's unsure why that's upside down? Yeah Amazing. So you went to New Zealand went to New Zealand. I Was or Abby our first was was seven months old, I think.

Taking a seven month old on a 14 hour plane ride. Been there. It happened. She was, it wasn't as bad as if she were like walking. That toddler age, just to encourage anyone who has a toddler between ages of one and three is a rough flying age and a rough taking them to mass age. Whew, one to three is hard.

Yeah. How would you what advice would you give to new mum Jackie about how to handle and love and live? You know what I mean? Yes. OK. What advice would you give to her about what to do with the young kids? I would say something I've learned recently. There's a podcast called The Place We Find Ourselves. And this guy talks about the attachment theory and the six, I think it's like a second episode, like the six things every child needs. And not only do you listen to that as like, was I given those things as a child from my parents, like attunement and repair, like

did my parents apologize? So there are some things, one of the things that he said in there that really was like, oh, he's like, children need to know that you can handle their big emotions. And I've always kind of thought as a parent, like, I feel like the goal of parenthood is to stay pretty evenly, you have to learn how to be evenly-keeled when your kids are going nuts,

but it's hard, they, oh. It's really hard. Like, my husband is the most evenly-keeled person and he's like, I've never confessed the sin of anger until I had children Yeah, because they they're tan but it's not just their temper and tantrums It's not just that it's also what you believe about yourself as they're giving it back to you Like you're feeling like a failure. Yeah, and that makes you angry and scared and so then you react Yeah, and sometimes you're like you shouldn't like thinking you should know better.

I've taught you better or just like, ah, nobody cares about me. Like, you know, there's just all that stuff that's going on. So when, when he said like, children need to know that you can handle their big emotions, I was like, ah, yes, like I'm not going to be moved by your massive tantrums. And I, I don't know if this is a thing, but I realized in my kids and their phases, in the toddler phase, there's three stages. These are the tantrum phase where they go from, you know, you can like take a toy from a baby and they don't care, but then there's a stage where you take it

away and they're like, and they, you know, they lose it. So it's like the tantrum phase. The meltdown phase is when you literally think your kids are demonically possessed. You know, that's like a stage you're like, whoa. Like they just, I wanted to put your shoes on and you literally, do we need to like get holy water? You said you wanted to kill mommy. Like their eyes start shaking, you know?

Like I had, yeah, you're like, all right, okay, this is like the meltdown phase. And the last phase is like the defiant. It's like the last hurrah before the age of reason where they start losing it. And like my sweet little boy, Johnny, you know, my Johnny, can you? He's like, no, never. I'm like, oh, the defiance. So I'm like, it's the last stage before the reason kicks in until then.

They're just like little drunk people. So, yeah. So that would be your advice to young mum Jackie and other young mums is just try to find a way to not react to their reacting. Like it's not personal. Like don't take it personally. They're just having big emotions and it's okay. Just breathe. Like this is, it's not about you. This is about these kids go through these phases

and they don't have the part of their brain yet. It's not developed yet where they can reason with their emotions. So they're either a hundred percent happy or a hundred percent angry. That's why they like, they could be throwing a full bone tantrum. You're like, want a cookie?

And they're like, oh, cookie. You know? So for me, I wish, yeah, I feel like I've, it's gotten better by child number four now because my second her her tantrums were off the charts and I I think the other thing that we don't realize as parents is It's not necessarily a reflection on how you're parenting them, right? When you have your first child you I don't know about you

But I had this tremendous pressure like I got to get this right. So he doesn't grow up and be whatever X, Y, Z. And so whenever I would see things that I didn't like, I'd get really worried and really anxious and try to like alter how I was parenting them. But I really just at some point, once you start seeing that in children, as you say, you see the stages and you see that things end up well. So you are loving repairing relationships when whatever that it's everything's fine. It's really actually fine. And I didn't know that it was fine. Like when my kid would do a tantrum at mass, I'm like, now he's going to become like an atheist drug dealer.

I never thought that. But and everyone's judging you for being a horrible parent. It's like when it's your first child and if your child is throwing a fit, you feel that judgment from other people and maybe you're judging yourself thinking if I were a better parent then this child would act the way that little Johnny over there is acting, not realizing that different children have different temperaments and different parents who have significantly different temperaments and that's okay as well. Yes. And then I had a parent once tell me, she has six kids and she said, I thought I was

a perfect parent for the three kids and then I had a parent once tell me, she has six kids, and she said, I thought I was a perfect parent for the three kids, and then number four came. And I was like, really? And so I had my number two through crazy tantrums, like kicking, screaming, and she's just a really deep feeler. And now she's great. She's so beautifully sensitive.

She's so helpful. She's six and a half. Oh, she's such a good kid. My number four is like, you know, taking a toddler to mass, it's like taking a squirrel. I mean, it's like having a squirrel, but she's like an angry squirrel, like volatile. She's the kind of kid when you pick her up, she does the floppy thing and starts screaming like, I'm like, Oh boy. And, and every kid, like my, some of my other kids didn't do that. Yes, that's right. So her, that kid is gonna be, you know,

we're gonna hopefully direct those passions so she'll be a great saint. And like, no one's gonna tell her what to do, you know? She's gonna be like, don't tell me what to do, which is great, but right now is a toddler. Exactly, that's what I've heard. That the kind of, the temperament or the traits in your children that you want them

to have as adults are the most annoying when they're young Right that kind of independence and a strong will yeah, oh boy number four. That's the other thing right because you and Bobby are both strong Willed folks would you say Bobby's not he's he's pretty really chill I mean, so my wife and I are like both big personalities and we're both very choleric Yeah, when you guys are like Cameron is the extrovert, I'm like, what? Like, is that before you met me or what? Well, before you met her, I mean. Well, just it's funny because you seem like you're the extra.

And when you're on stage and everything, and then when people find out that your wife is, they're like, what? Oh dear God. Yeah. What's that house like? Come and see. But yeah, Bobby is like super chill. That must be nice. And then I'm like the sanguine choleric. And so I can have, thankfully Bobby is like, he gets stuff done though.

So he's a, he motivates me when I'm my like lazy sanguine person because I'm like a procrastinator. I'm like melancholic choleric. My wife's textbook choleric. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable. But she's a kind of choleric that gets along really well with powerful women. Yeah. I know your wife is super, like she's very easy going. She's amazing. And she's very humble. So she doesn't feel shown up or threatened by anybody.

I've never seen her be threatened. No, she's integrated. That's like the beautiful thing about when someone is integrated versus when they're like disintegrated. Acting out of wounds. Yeah. And that pride. I mean, pride in any of those temperaments is bad. I mean, cause I've met melancholy, you know, like this, cause a really good, can we just stop for a second and break down each of these temperaments for those who aren't aware, which by the way, there's a book called the temperament God gave you. And then there's one like the temperament God gave your spouse,

the temperament God gave your children, which I think is fascinating. It's fascinating for your friends, like to know you're in your friends, the temperament God gave your children, which I think is fascinating. It's fascinating for your friends, like to know in your friends, in your relationships, and even in your family members, it just starts making sense. So, okay, the more extroverted temperaments are sanguine and choleric. The sanguine, and they all have the good and the bad,

so the goal is to be integrated. So sanguins are the life of the party. So the good thing is they're fun, they're life of the party. The bad thing is sanguins can be the center of attention, right? They can be the attention hogs. Cholerax are great because they are like the go-getters. They get stuff done.

The CEOs, the saints. Yeah. The bad thing is like, and they are, they can be bossy. And actually, if you were a child, like my eight-year-old, the six-year-old's already calling her bossy. I'm like, great, she will be a CEO of a company. But if you've been called bossy, you have choleric in you. So choleric is good because they're very logical, get stuff done.

The bad thing is they can be control freaks. So the melancholic, phlegmatic are the more introverted ones. And melancholic, the good thing about melancholic is they're really reflective. They are like my husband, he's like the philosopher and even our six and a half year old, she is such the little philosopher. She asks amazing questions like, did God create Mary? And I'm like, yeah. She's like,, she's his mother. How could God create his own mother? I'm like, she's six and a half. And she asked us like a year ago, but she's a little philosopher. The bat, the, the, the non-integrated melancholic is going to be very Debbie Downer.

Oh boy. And if you've ever met one of those, or the Eeyore like, oh, I can totally be like that, you know, less and less, but I, yeah, what's funny is when I first, go one more though before I like Maddox So the flagmatic is the person who's like super chill with the flow chill The bad thing is they don't ever get stuff done. So I I never My my always hard temperament was cholera. It's like who just boss the heck out of people, right? but I I met some phlegmatics that like people, right? But I met some phlegmatics that like, man, it's like, get some stuff done, dude, you know? So that it's just the goal is to be integrated and humble and have virtue.

I don't know about you. I know some people don't like these kind of ideas because if they feel like it boxes them in or something, which makes you a, no, I'm just joking, some kind of temperament. But I actually found it really liberating. I really liberating when I first went through this, I actually, when I first did the test, I was convinced I was sanguine, like sanguine caleric. Which I think people would probably assume because you're very life of the party when you're in front of people.

You're very good. I think so. I don't know if it's less over over the years. If it was like if it was me and Cameron, you and Bobby. Yeah, I'd probably be more effusive But when there's like say 10 or 11 people then everything in me starts to retreat inside my head, right? I start to retreat inside of myself. Well, then and then for me like I am a sanguine I'm very outgoing, but I don't like a lot of people like I am a quality time person So they go into the love language. Yeah, yeah

time person. So they go into the love language, which I also love. Here we go. Yay. But I, I would much rather have less people and deep conversations than a massive party with all these superficial conversations. Here's a question. Would anyone admit to wanting to be among a ton of people with superficial conversations? Any human being ever? I have friends who love big parties. I hate that. I hate that. But they wouldn't phrase it like that. They wouldn't be like, I just love

superficial conversations with a ton of people. Right. Right. They say, I think they just like that's where they get. They're like energized by that. And I'm not. I don't like, I don't know, the quality time person, me like cringes, even if it's a room full of people I love. Yeah. Like all people I love.

I can't spend time with you, like good time with you. So to me, it kills it kills me. Like when I'm at big conferences with a lot of my friends, but I only have like a minute with them is like, hey, how you doing? Oh, good. Good. I'm like, like dying inside. So I'd rather have two or three people at my house or at a coffee shop. Has that changed as you've gotten older? Um, I kind of, I think maybe, but I, I still always like deeper conversations. Even when

you were like 17, it will do. Yeah. I, yeah. Maybe, maybe post conversion. Okay. Yeah. That's a good, that's a good question. I think back then I I wasn't as deep interiorly. So maybe I was just like you're cute You're breathing. Let's date. Oh my gosh Well, Carrie Beckman who we both know said to me once she's like, I'm so sorry. There is no way you're saying when I'm again No, I've done the test. She's like I'm telling you you're definitely melancholic. So I can't do this test just to shut her up She was right. Yeah, she was right hundred percent interesting. So I don't know what that was You thought that you didn't realize you were more introverted and it's hard, right? She was right. Yeah, she was right. 100% interesting. So I don't know what that was. You thought that you didn't realize you were more introverted?

And it's hard, right? Because you have people who are a fan of these tests saying you don't ever change. And so, okay, but maybe you do. Or maybe I just really like the idea of being sanguine, like, you know, and you gravitate towards that and you answer those questions subconsciously what you want to have the result be. And then I have a friend who says that if Jesus was like, kind of like the perfect integration of all of them, then as we become more like Jesus, we kind of come closer to that middle. Like, oh, that's an interesting proposition too. But obviously, as you get older, I think you also realize what's more important in life. So I think when people are younger, they have a massive group of friends. And as you get older, that kind of whittles down till you realize like,

I have a close group of friends that really matter in my life. Like, I don't know if you've noticed that about your life. But for me, you know, you just have like a lot of friends when you're in high school and college, and then it starts whittling down to the people in your life. We're like, no, these are like, I don't have time. Like, I don't have time to have 12 best friends. I don't want to offend everybody in Stubingville who's ever said hi to me, but like there's a thousand amazing Catholics, more 10,000 amazing Catholic families here in Stubingville. And everybody says this who lives here. It's like, you just can't be friends with everybody. Back when I lived in Atlanta, like if you and Bobby lived say 40 minutes away, I'm like, oh my gosh, great. We'll go hang out with everybody. Back when I lived in Atlanta, like if you and Bobby lived say 40 minutes away,

I'd be like, oh my gosh, great, we'll go hang out with them. That'll be our community. 40 minutes away. Now I can barely go to another street to hang out with people because there's enough people on my own street. And I would much rather be intentional about a few people. And just the other day on Saturday,

this new couple moved to town. Tons of people are moving to Stupendale lately. And they said, yeah, we're renting, we're trying it out. As soon as they said that, I'm like, oh, I'm not investing in you. And I'm not sorry for that. I think I just, I don't have time. I do not have time to invest in people who might be leaving again. Oh, there's a wound there, Matt. No, I don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I mean, there's probably wounds there, but that's not, I don't think that comes from a wounded place. I think it's that I, just like you're saying, like I want to invest in people that I can grow in relationship with. People here for a couple of months, I'm happy to hang out, but I'm not going to share my life with you in the same way I would as if I knew that we'll be here together in 10 years, 20 years from now. Cause your time, yeah, your time is very, it's, it's value. I mean, everyone's time

is valuable, but I think when you have children and you have it, you're absolutely right. Like, I want people who are part of my community and not just and not that you can't be friends with them or hang out with them. But yeah, you do. You finding that in Dallas, do you have good friends close? Yes. Thank God. We go to an amazing, amazing parish. I'm part of the homeschool co-op and Bobby's part of the dad. So it's funny, Bobby knows all the dads and I know all the moms. And so we're having that big group, but then thankfully we have a smaller core group of really good friends because yeah, it is hard when you move away from your best friends

and we're like, I grew up in Orange County, California, and that's where my family is, that's where my best friends are. And so God has definitely provided with like that small group of people. I'm like, thank you, Lord, because I don't know. I feel like when you don't have community, it's extremely lonely, especially when you have little kids and, you know, you need other people who are kind of in those stages with you walking with you. And then you have the mentors too, who are kind of showing you how. Are you close to these communities other than the fact that you share a parish together? Are you walking distance or a short drive to these people's houses? I mean, it's like, it's like 15 minutes, so it's not, yeah, that's not too bad.

And some of them are like seven minutes. So yeah, yeah. But we have like once a month or every other week, dinner nights with a couple of couples and their kids. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's because the world is becoming increasingly insane that we need that more and more as Christians, or if it's our stage of life where we want our children to be around other good families that we want that emphasis on community more. Yeah. And just think of like social media. It's great to have people on social media who are like our community, but you absolutely need people in person.

Because the people on social media, there's a sense that you feel like they know you and you know them, but you don't, like you're not in their homes and you don't see the real, like for instance, last year I had a miscarriage and it was like the people, I didn't even mention that on social media for a long time. So no one knew, I mean, but the people in my life knew

and they were bringing me food and they were with me and they were, you know, some of them have gone through that too. So they're like bringing food. They're, they're caring for you in real time. And they, they kind of see the reality, you know? So it's like, it's great to have. Then you have this too, around the country, we have friends at any moment we could call them, we could visit them. And that's so wonderful. But then you have the people who are in your everyday life who you really do need. And so I feel for those people who are still looking for that, especially when you're a mom and you're a stay at home mom and you're like, and maybe you don't have family. It's really, it's hard. It's lovely when you have grandparents who are around you in it, but it's really hard.

You feel very lonely and isolated when you don't have community. So we, I so for that, like we need to have community and find people who can help us and walk with us because that's how it always used to be. Yeah. And we've had, I think, I think like 50 to a hundred families moved to super middle over the last year or two. Oh my gosh. Maybe last year. Like it's insane. And this isn't a plug for super middle, but what I think like 50 to 100 families moved to super middle over the last year or two. Oh my gosh. Maybe last year. Like it's insane. And this isn't a plug for Stubbornville. But what I'm trying to

say is it feels like after the COVID lockdowns, people's jobs sometimes have become more flexible so they can work from home, which means they can work from another state. And so I think more people might be trying to find a community of people to do life with as it were. Yeah. And COVID was extremely isolating too. So I think people realize like, I need people, right? We need other human beings and think like how demonic it is that like the culture is trying to go into this very, um, like the meta, like the virtual, virtual reality, the virtual world.

It's like, forget that you're, forget your messy life over here. Right. We're just going to keep you happy. It's like Instagram on steroids. Yeah, because Instagram is kind of like that. It's like fake. It's like now we want you to have like a virtual life. Yeah.

It makes me think of Dwight True from The Office. Like he's like, I just love being a paper salesman. So in my second life, I'm going to be a paper salesman, too. You know, but it's like, no. oh my gosh, like that. Can you imagine the devil would love that? Like first of all, to get us out of reality because reality is pain like real life is painful. It's messy. Um, you know, we have wounds that we don't want to deal with. And so to be like, come, it's like the sloth. Here's a thing for sloth or sloth or however you say it.

I say sloth. But essentially like, just forget your problems. Your real life is not great. So we're just gonna keep you in virtual reality. But that's kind of the endless scroll. Is I'm just gonna keep you bored or not bored. I mean, you're distracted from even your own- In a world. Yeah, your own, the reality, which can be painful. Like it's painful to start looking inward and being like, oh man, yeah, like I really want

to be affirmed. Like I don't feel loved and I feel rejected and all those kinds of things. Like it's hard to start looking inside and the devil's like, well then let's just keep you in an endless scroll. Yeah. You know? What have you done to try to start looking inside and the devil's like, well, then let's just keep you in an endless scroll. Yeah. You know, what have you done to try to fight against that? Because it feels like technology is increasingly encroaching into our lives. One example of this is with these newer cars that break for you or even parallel park for you and are smarter than you are. And then our phones are also like that. Or if you subscribe to a YouTube channel, it doesn't mean YouTube will suggest those videos,

because YouTube knows what you want to watch more than what you think you want to watch. Oh my gosh. So as technology, in this sense, encroaches on our lives, and you're aware of that and articulated that so well, how are you and Bobby trying to stave that off? Right. Well, it's just you have to be kind of honest with yourself. Like for me, it's like, okay, like why do I have to ask myself why? Like, why do I spend so much time on this app? Am I escaping reality? And I think COVID kind of showed me that like, oh, like you don't want to be sad here. So you want to escape over here. Like, okay, so I'm escaping feeling this way.

Or like for me, different apps bring different emotions. So like Instagram, it's like, oh, here's the envy again. Like, oh, I'm jealous of their perfect life. Whatever. It's like we all can feel that. Like I'm the jealousy of like seeing someone else's perfect real, but that's like, that's not really their reality either. So it's like Instagram might make us feel one way, Twitter might make us feel angry or whatever. So it's

kind of like acknowledging what is this doing to me? And then how do I limit this? What can I replace it with that's actually healthy instead of not great? And you know, you kind of just have to be aware of what's happening in you. And like, what are you actually searching for? Like, am I just seeking the likes, the affirmation, the comments? Is that what I'm seeking? And does my worth come?

Or if people are making mean comments, it's like, is my self worth so wrapped up in those comments? Like, I'm not secure in Jesus enough. So it's like, I have to be honest with myself. Like, am I not secure in Jesus enough. So it's like I have to be honest with myself. Like am I really secure in Jesus? Do you think Instagram kind of is more of a pitfall for women? Because I hear women say that to me that what you just said about the envy and like my life isn't as good as

their life. Maybe men feel this way as well, but I don't have men say that verbalize that to me. Do you think it's a specific thing to women? I mean, I did an article on teenagers and social like teenagers and Just kind of the state of gen z right and one of the crazy statistics like just constant like studies done is on teenage girls and instagram, okay, and how the depression the anxiety the kind of the eating disorders, like all this stuff because I don't know, like the visual, like, I have to look like this fake airbrushed picture. And so maybe that is an image based social media platform. And then when people follow influencers, who on YouTube, I follow this one girl who's a photographer, or I always watch her videos,

and she would kind of show all the fake pictures, like there were airbrush and completely doctored, and like the same day, taken by a different photographer that wasn't doctored, or whatever, like, what someone really looked like. She's like, listen, stop basing your self-worth, like these are completely doctored. Look at, like, she would point out the lighting, like, and how they...

It was just amazing. It was fascinating. But it's kind of sad that because it's image-based and we compare ourselves and our self-worth to, like, even me as a grown adult and someone who knows Jesus, I remember, like, I walked to... My friend and I were walking in a mall and there was a massive Victoria Secret poster And I turned my head away. Yeah, not for lust sake. Oh my my guy friend turned his head away That's the two of you and he was like, yeah

Yeah, he was like that is somebody's sister that is somebody's daughter. Her name is Dolores and I'm like, oh my god That's my grandma's name. Um, but he like I turned my face and I was like, why did I turn my face? I'm like, ah, because I don't want to compare myself to what I think like really is this airbrushed model because that's how I'm tempted. Like, oh, you're not good enough. Like that's the lie. Like you're not good enough. You're not skinny enough. You're not this enough.

This enough. You know, any beautiful person in a catalog becomes ugly under emergency room lighting. Emergency room lights. Oh, just like, yeah, exactly. Like, you could put a fluorolight on the most beautiful person in the world and you're not going to find them nearly as beautiful. Well, it was very helpful to see one day, like, these supermodels and just, like, their headshots without any makeup and no hair.

I was like, oh, praise the Lord. They actually look normal. Yeah. They look like normal human beings. Oh, my goodness. Becoming more of a temptation for men these days. Cause I think it used to be that like women would compare themselves and try to look a certain way. Whereas you used to hear men say that that's not something that men really struggle with. But I don't know if that's true anymore with the CrossFit culture and all that.

I don't know. I, for me, what CrossFit culture and all that. I don't know. I, for me, what I see with them is like the struggle to like, I, because of pornography, because like I need a girl who looks like a porn star and kind of, um, in the young adult group, like back in Los Angeles, kind of we noticed like my friends and I have like, the guys always go to the same girl. They don't go to the girl next door who's like lovely. They go to the same girl who they're like, Oh, this is so like, that might be the temptation, especially cause it's culture.

Like I have this idea of woman and she looks like whatever Angelina Jolie. I mean, for me it's like Hugh Jackman, the man, you know, whatever, even Bobby loves Hugh Jackman. So, um, but you know, whatever it is, like for, for the, the man to be tempted by, like, she must be like this perfect image of what the porn star look, which I think even normal women, it's become so normal to like, we're like fake eyelashes to wear like when the whole contour thing, it's like, oh my God, the contour was like the Kim Kardashian, like we're going to show

the con so, but almost like we're going to just look, we're going to try to look like porn stars 24 seven. It's like, Oh my gosh. So it's not that you can't look beautiful or classy, but it's like, what are the lies that I'm falling for here that my self worth comes when I only look like this? So it's kind of interesting, but you see, you know, obviously with pornography, you see it too, not just in looks, but also

like how women should act and what I'm looking for in a romantic relationship. And then when men get married, I had a guy friend say to me, he was like, yeah, it was crazy to get married and realize like, oh yeah, my wife isn't just going to like react how I think she's going to react because we're not in a porn film like you know. Right Jason Everett said so wisely that pornography is not the fulfillment of marriage. I beg your pardon marriage is not the fulfillment of porn porn is the distortion of love and I often think I'm thinking about this more and more about how. Like if I wrongly assess a things's essence and use it inappropriately, I would get frustrated at that thing. So if I thought this cup were a door stopper or something

and it kept failing at that, I would get angry with this thing. And I think that pornography is a lie about what a woman is. And I think that frustration that you may see in some men is coming into confrontation with reality. And at that point you have to make an adjustment. But the difference is, and this is what's tough, is that pornography, while a demonic lie about women and men and sexuality, there is some truth in it in that women and men are sexual beings. But the problem with it is it takes some beautiful slither of reality in the woman and just

sort of expands it to be 100% of the woman. Right. Does that make sense? Well, she just becomes. She is. Yeah, she just becomes an object. And that's different with the doorstopper idea, because there's no sense in which this is a door stopper. But there is a sense in which a woman or a man is a sexual being. So it makes it even more difficult to sort of interact in that space and appropriately. It reminds me of the priest who once said to me, it's easier to be celibate than to use your sexuality appropriately. Oh, yeah. It's like perfect moderation is much harder than, I tried to use that line in confession once, I was like, father, he was like, you know, you could just not kiss till marriage.

I'm like, father, let me tell you, I think it was Augustine. I probably need to confess that as well that I told the priest. What did Augustine say? I think he said, kind of like celibacy is easier than perfect moderation. Oh, did he? Yeah, I think that's right. Like trying to be especially, yeah. So that's what the devil does.

The devil distorts our desires because it's like, we know when it comes to pornography, the reason, and you obviously talk about this, is it's attractive. There's something in us that entices us because there is a part of us that desires this beauty, this truth, this goodness. That's how we are made and the devil distorts that to be something so ugly to make us just, to make people just things, objects. And the thing I'm realizing too is it's not enough to intellectually assent to the fact that pornography is a lie and you shouldn't treat subjects as merely objects. Because I think

that's what is confusing for a lot of people be that men or women who look at pornography before entering marriage they have this sort of like intellectual conversion when they say okay you shouldn't treat people as things and that's why pornography is evil and a light turns on. pornified culture goes so much deeper that I would say even 16 years into marriage, I'm still detecting those lies and praying in the name of Jesus to uproot them. Yeah. And Pope John Paul in love and responsibility, I mean, his whole thesis was that the opposite of love is use. To use a person not, and he even said you can use a person in two ways. You can use someone as an object for your pleasure. You could use a woman as an object for your pleasure, but you also could use her as a concubine

just to bear babies. I mean, almost like, so it's like, Oh my gosh, like we can use people and then we can use people emotionally for my affirmation, for, for my self-worth. And sorting through that. Yeah. And so, yeah, when you're married, it doesn't just go away. It doesn't just disappear. Because what's crazy is like you're a mystery even to yourself as I am. Like I'm a mystery to myself. I don't know why. And in a good sense and in a not so good sense, like I don't know why I do the things

that I do sometimes or I'm not aware why I react in the way that I react. Where's that coming from? And then you bring two people together into this intimate relationship and the two of you are a mystery to yourself, let alone to each other. And you have to, and you're figuring that out in marriage. I mean, the fact that you've been married for 16 years, I've been married for nine years, and Bobby and I are still having conversations like how we're different as men and women. I'm like, still, it's just, that's the beauty of when you're married to somebody

that you can be vulnerable with, that you are safe with. Like, oh man, I am so passionate about making sure people marry the right people. Like, okay. So like, I wish that I had a, like an engagement encounter weekend that broke up 50% of the couples. I'm like, if half of you are going to get divorced anyways, let's have,

it's better 14 broken engagements than one broken marriage. Right? So I'm like passionate about making sure because marriage is so important. It can affect generations. Like so many people, we just think it's always our chemistry with this person is like, no, this affects your children and it's going to affect their children. And obviously, I talk about the cycle of sin in a family, like, we all know abuse continues. Adultery, addiction, this all stuff just continues. We pass it down to our children and it doesn't stop until someone's like, no, I don't want this. So it's like for me, I think about my family tree and like in my family tree, I have some horrific things. Like I do, I have abuse, rape, addiction, adultery, you know,

pornography, all this stuff. And when I had my conversion in my Catholic, I was raised Catholic, but I was very lukewarm. And when I really fell in love with Jesus, I was like, this stops with me. I'm not going to marry a man who cheats on me. I'm gonna wait for a man who treats me with respect. I am gonna wait for a man who's gonna, his goal is going to get, is gonna help me, give me to get to heaven. You know, like I don't wanna marry a man who is addicted. And so like, I was like,

I will wait however long it's gonna take. I will wait till I'm 50. I don't care. Like, because I know it isn't so important, this is going to affect our children. And now thankfully, the Lord brought me Bobby when I was 28, I think, but I just met I've met two 50 year old women who just got married their first marriage and they're like, I would have waited all over again. Because the other option is what

do you do you grasp? You grasp because you're lonely. You grasp because you're afraid and you marry. Like not that Bobby and I are happy to break up people, but when people write me, they're like, I read, I wrote a blog called, the devil wants you to settle in your relationship. And I have multiple people who are like, I broke up with my boyfriend after this, you know, I'm like, great, awesome. Because I have met, I meet the children of these. I have the, like, I'll speak to teenagers about this kind of stuff. And the chaperones are the ones coming up to me being like, I wish I would have heard this when I was 18. Because my husband just cheated on me with my best friend who's 20 years old or whatever. Like, I, you know, I wish I would have known this because marriage is supposed to be a foretaste of heaven heaven but it can be a foretaste of hell. When I just think like when you marry somebody out of

fear when you're grasping and not to say that it can't get better. But a priest once told me who when he said this to me it changed a lot. He said to me when he was in seminary he realized there were three types of guys. He's like there were those who were called by God to be priests. There were those who called themselves to the priest like, there were those who were called by God to be priests, there were those who called themselves to the priesthood, and there were those who were called by Satan. And I was like, whoa. And I realized the same thing could be said about marriage. There are those who you can tell were called by the Lord in that marriage,

like the fruits that come from that marriage. There are those who called themselves, and there are those who are called by Satan. Like you think about abuse, like abusive situations or where people marry, some of they were coerced into a marriage or whatever it is. But I am so passionate, like the Lord doesn't want us to be miserable. He wants us to bear the fruits of the Spirit, to bear the fruits of generosity, love, patience, kindness. And I feel like sometimes Catholics, I've heard this said like, well, love is a choice to just marry whoever. Like that's

terrible advice. Terrible. No. And the thing is, I've heard people say to like, oh, once you get married, everything gets better. No, it gets worse. Everything gets, the volume goes up to 11. Everything gets exaggerated. Everything gets exposed. All this stuff like, oh, my porn problem will go away when I get married. No, it's going to be exposed. All my wounds, like people who have childhood abuse, sexual abuse that they've never dealt with, that absolutely comes out in a marriage and it's

devastating to have to deal with it. And some people even 10 years into marriage are dealing with those, what the stuff, the trauma that maybe they never dealt with so I'm very I'm very passionate about Because I always it's hard for me when I give talks about the beauty of marriage But then I people who are married and they're like, well, what do I do? And I'm like, oh you go to counseling, please like do whatever you can go to therapy But that's why I'm like I feel like I those who aren't married yet. I'm at least yeah Maybe I can help imagine that's really difficult for a say 25 year old woman to hear you say that when she thinks easy for you to say Jackie like you're married. It's great guy. You got

four kids. But I suppose you would say it would be better for both either a man or a woman because just like there are for lack of a better word trashy guys, there are trashy women. Yes. Yeah, yeah, I know. How dare you say that? Yeah, trashy. I don't mean irredeemable, but it seems to me that if you're going to say that there can be selfish obnoxious self-centered egotistical men, then of course you can say the same thing of women and we shouldn't be marrying in that wounded place to the degree that it's possible not to but I would imagine.

Yeah, like what do you say to a woman who's 25 and I mean, that's really cool that you had that self-confidence to say, I would rather be 50 and then get married. Well, I say, I would rather be single and happy in Jesus than miserable in a marriage. I would, I absolutely would, because I've seen people in miserable marriages and I've seen the divorces and I've seen the important annulments. My sister just got married, Emma, she's 32. Like, that's quite late to get married.

But thank God she got married now. Her husband's a wonderful, holy, good man. And she's a wonderful, holy, good woman. And thank God. I mean, I think there was probably times for many years where she thought, I guess I'm just never going to get married, you know? Yeah. And while I have friends in their late 30s, I have friends in their 40s We're still waiting and they're still waiting and I don't know what God's plan is for them But I do I do know that I've had 50 year old women come up to me and they're like listen

I got married when I was 50 and I would have waited all over again because and personally I Absolutely because I was a happy single person. So I Like I really kind of think like if you're a miserable, miserable single person, you're gonna be a miserable married person. Marriage isn't an idol. It's not going to fix all your problems because people have this idea like, oh, once I get married, it'll be fine. No, it's not an idol. Any married person, ask any married person and they will absolutely tell you no, no, not that marriage, not that it gets worse, but it's just all exposed. It's all exposed. All those insecurities, all that marriage, not that it gets worse, but it's just all exposed. Yeah, it's all exposed.

All those insecurities, all that woundedness, it all comes out up to the surface. Oh, it all comes out if you haven't dealt with it. And so if I don't and we don't want to kind of like lead people into a state of inaction either because they're so afraid. I mean, right. However much stuff you've had healed in your life. We're all on this journey And so start continually comes to the surface, which is one of the most healing things about my marriage is having a woman See my brokenness and my impatience and my last and my selfishness and all that and love me

Whole while that's a healing thing and I'm sure you'd say Bobby loving you Because that's how that that's like the set now's like, yeah, the person's not your savior. They're not your therapist. Right. But there is a healing element to marriage because it's a sacrament. And you the two are the ministers of the sacrament. So there is healing because it's Jesus's love. And how beautiful like, for me, I tell people like, they're like, how do you know they're the one, right? But the one you're called Mary. And I'm like, because I heard a nun say it and I was like, that's perfect. This nun was said she knew her vocation when she felt like she was home. Yeah.

I was like, that's right. Like when people say like, oh, I just I knew like, I just knew people hate that. Yeah. It's like because there's a sense of like, I feel safe. I don't have to pretend. Like when I'm around Cameron, I feel like I'm a better person. Yeah. That's probably a good sign too.

Yeah. And I can be myself and they call me onto greatness. Yeah. A better person, not in the sense that I have to pretend to be better, but I actually feel lifted up. Another thing that I see, it's funny, like when you meet and you date and you're so clouded by the romance, it might be difficult to discern. But I think one thing I'm one sign that Cameron was going to be an amazing woman is that everyone in my life who I respected said that she was an amazing woman.

These are people who I respected their opinion. They all went to marry her immediately. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I think if I was dating someone who wasn't so amazing, I probably wouldn't have cared about their advice either way. But to have people you revere as good, holy people know this person and say yes, like whatever faults they have. Yes. Yeah. Bobby had a priest in his life who's like, are you more in love with the reality

than the romance? Because some people fall in love with the idea of the person and they're not actually in love with the person. How do you discern that in the moment? So I am thinking of a couple that we prayer block. We prayer block them. So they're like, we're like, we're engaged. And I'm like, I mean, like, yes, or like, oh, no. So the couple that I was like, oh, no, I was like, Bobby, we need to prayer block this.

So what does that mean? Prayer block. It's like, Lord, I pray that your will be done. But I know this is not the right relation. I'm really joking. But I'm like, but not really. Because I'm like, Lord, I don't think this is the right eye because I could see block the meeting. You're trying to subvert the thing that they want to try. What the word block like just like block. Like I don't want them to get married because I don't think gotcha. Because I intuitively knew he's in love with the idea of this girl and not her.

Uh huh. Like I know it like, and sure enough, five months later, they, they broke off their engagement. Cause I was like, I, and I kind of mentioned it to my friend. I was like, I think the problem was like when you were away from her, you idealized and had this image of who you thought she was. And you were in love with the idea of the person. But when you were actually with her, you were of like, oh, miserable. Oh, really? Well, yeah, you just,

you don't feel and there's, yeah, there can be that pit in the stomach, there's something not right and sometimes we can't even name it and that's okay, but there's like, oh, something's not right. But then, especially if you're long distance and when you're away, you like fall in love with the idea. Yes. So I could kind of see like you're in love with the idea of the person and not the person. So Bobby's priest friend, he was like, make sure you're more in love with the reality than the romance. And I remember a couple of years ago, there was like a celebrity divorce and they'd been married for 10 years. And in like People magazine, it was like, it was because we were becoming too much like friends. And I was like, that's what your marriage is supposed to be based on. It's like a virtuous friendship, right? There are people who think that you're not supposed to be friends with your spouse.

And I'm like, well, you're not supposed to be like gal pals, but there's different forms of friendship, right? Like Aristotle. Matthew 10.10 CS Lewis said, love is friendship caught on fire. Jessi 10.10 Yeah. And Aristotle, there were three different types of friendship. You have a friendship of utilities when you're just friends with someone because it's useful. Like you're on the same team, you work together. And when it's not useful anymore, when you're not in the same team, you're really not friends anymore.

And there's a friendship of enjoyment where you enjoy the same things. And then when you don't enjoy those things anymore, your friendship kind of fades. But the best kind of friendship is a friendship, a virtuous friendship. And that's where you have a common goal, a common aim. Your relationship is made something like outside yourselves. And so, as Christians, as Catholics, it's like our marriages should absolutely be based on a virtuous friendship where our common goal is heaven. Our common aim is to bring each other closer to Jesus. So when they said that, like, we're becoming too much like friends,

like saying like, our chemistry died out. And I was like, well, if you don't like 99.9% of your marriage is friendship. Like people think like, obviously we have sex all the time. Like, no, that's not what happens. Like, that's not how it works. Like, you have to have a virtuous friendship. You have to want to be around this person 24 7. You know what's really cool about Cameron is I was afraid that I wasn't really attracted to her and she felt the same way. I was afraid I wanted to be attracted to her because we were such good friends. And I thought, well, wouldn't that be cool if I could be attracted to one of my close friends?

That's nice. Huh? She thought, though, both of us about you or she got the same way towards you. Both of us thought that we were very good friends and there were times we served with net ministries. And then I went back to Australia. She went back to America and we were like, we weren't sure if

we there would be that chemistry. And we both independently thought maybe we just want that chemistry so bad because we're such good friends. So I'm so glad that our relationship is based on that friendship. You know, right. We were the chemistry came. Did it come? Holy crap. Like a wave.

It's great. Praise the Lord. Yeah. I just when people are like, just get married to anybody. Um, cause love is a choice. I'm like, that is horrible advice. Nobody has ever said that though. Nobody has ever said that sentence. They have said it.

They have responded it to me because I, I'm like, no, you need, so like almost like an arranged marriage. Like I've literally have had people say like, Oh, kind of, we should just have arranged marriages. I'm open to that. Oh, my God. Oh, stop it. Stop it. No, it worked because love is a choice.

And I'm like, yeah, but you still have to make love to this person. Yeah. Like for the love of God, we'll share a kitchen with them. Share a kitchen where they're always standing right in front of the door. You need every time. Oh, my gosh. OK, so I will say I was working. I won't say which community, but I was working with a community of people where a lot of their parents have

arranged kind of like arranged marriages. How'd that go? But the children are like, it's rough because they're like, I see like they can't in that community, there's not a divorce rate. Um, so like, you know, when I speak to teens, a lot of times the divorce rate of their parents is pretty high, but in this particular community, the divorce rate isn't high at all because it's assumed that you stay married to this, but there is no divorce, right? It's not an option. But then they witness abuse, essentially, between the husbands and the wives.

I mean, it's heartbreaking. So I, yeah, I just have a heart for, Bobby and I both have a heart for single people and we want, like God doesn't want you to be miserable. I think some people really think like, God just wants me to suffer. No guys, life is going to bring suffering. Like Jesus says, in this world you will have trouble, but I bring you my peace. Yeah. And only in heaven, it's like, and in revelation it says in heaven, there will be no more weeping, no more suffering, no more sadness, no more pain. I mean, that's where you're called to this eternal life with God in heaven. In fact, in the catechism, I love that it said this because, again, back in my Oprah

days, there was a book called The Secret. Do you remember this? The Secret. And it like kind of compiled all the world's religion, like scriptures and whatever of the secret. But you know in the Catholicism, it actually says that God has an innermost secret. And God's innermost secret is that God is an eternal exchange of love, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and He destines for us to be a part of that eternal exchange of love.

That's what He wants for us, is to partake in that eternal exchange of love. And what's so beautiful is marriage is supposed to be a foretaste of that eternal exchange of love. And so, oh, it just, I, you know, and obviously you and I aren't just like, oh, we're lucky and like, oh, well, Jackie, good for you. Cause I've had people say that like, oh, you and Bobby have a fairytale, whatever marriage. I'm like, no. Yeah. Press in on that for us. No, we don marriage. I'm like, no. Yeah. Press in on that for us. No, we don't. Yes.

Like, well, I mean, first of all, we're not perfect. Bobby is not God. I'm not God. We are not perfect. We have our own wounds and everything. But I could tell you, I have hundreds, if not thousands of couples that I could point you to who have beautiful, holy marriages and they're all unique. They all have their own, you know, little weird eccentricities, whatever. We're all different.

But they're beautiful friendships with romance. They're so beautiful and they're both seeking Christ. So it's not like, oh, well, you two are just lucky. It's like, no, like, oh, you know, you have your fairy tale. It's like, no, Bobby and I argue. We still have, you know, just whatever. We've learned how to communicate better. We still have, you know, just whatever we've learned how to communicate better. We still have. Obviously, I remember a point in my marriage with my wife where I realized that our marriage wasn't unbreakable. Yeah, we fought. There was this one particular fight that scared the shit out of me because it was awful.

It was awful. It happened about four years ago and it was like both of our insecurities and wounds were just crushing against each other. And it was the first time I realized that there's nothing. It's yeah, just like I said, it's not unbreakable. Right. And and even in marriage. Sorry, I need to I need to kind of just sort of finish this conversation because I don't know how that sounds to people, especially those who either aren't married or who are newly married and don't know what that could possibly mean. But it is it can be marriage can be gruelling, especially when your desire and disordered desires.

When you start to see the other as an enemy because they accidentally tread it on your wound or something, that's a really terrifying thing. Yeah. And I think that if I didn't know the Lord, I think I would just be tempted to try it. I'd be I'd be of the opinion that I'm meant to find happiness in my wife and the fulfillment of all desire in my wife and that this is the only life I've got. So I need to go and find that somewhere else, because this must be wrong then. Like, since we had this fight, therefore that's a sign that we're not whatever

and I've got to go find it somewhere else. But what was so beautiful was transcending that and then getting to kind of reflect upon what just happened there and what did I think you said and coming through that has been so beautiful. But it is important that you say that to people, that it it's not a fairy tale marriage. That's so so bloody important you know. But that also the devil at any point of your marriage. The devil hates marriage yes you think the devil is going to want to come in and he's a jerk right he's going to try to come in at any point when maybe emotionally. at any point when maybe emotionally you're a little distant from your spouse. And then here comes the old, I mean, I've seen this happen so many times.

And so I have to be on guard too, but like the old boyfriend comes in, the ex boyfriend comes in, I've seen on Facebook and it's in slides in your DMs, you know? So you have. Smelling like the fulfillment of all my desire. That's it. Right. And then in our minds we think, Oh, this person could be the perfect, it's like, no. But I have to know, well, first of all, I have to know that I am capable of evil. Yes.

Right? I'm a recovering Pharisee, I will raise my, I am a recovering Pharisee who used to be like, well, I'm better than everyone because I don't, I never did that or I never did that. And when it happened in my brain that I realized I am just as capable of all these things. Name a sin. Adultery, I am just as capable of this except for by the grace of God,

by the grace of God, he gives me the grace. Who, and even to build virtue, but at any moment, the devil can try to tempt us, the devil can whatever whatever and he'll wait for those moments in our marriage. So in psychology, I remember learning that most divorces happen in year one of marriage, year seven and year 20, right? Year 20 is like when the kids go off to college and now they're, but, so I was, that always stuck with me and I have met friends who like the seven year itch,

right? It's like called like the seven year itch of marriage is like, now you've been married for seven years and there's struggle or maybe it's 12 years, whatever that fight that you had that you realize like, oh my gosh. But the, we have to be on guard as well of what's going on in me and in our relationship. and we can't... It's like we don't fear the devil because he's a mere creature and we have the Holy Spirit within us. I'm not to be afraid of the devil. The devil is not the opposite of God, right? God is God and the devil is a fallen angel. But I have to be on guard because I am human and on our best day we are only human.

And we are still capable of serious evil. And when I realized that, I think that helped me to be like, okay, Lord, I can't just rely on my own, like, I can't be self-reliant, like this devilish self-reliance. Like I can do it all. No, I can't. I need Jesus, and I need His grace, and I, I can't. I need Jesus and I need His grace and I need His mercy and I need to still continue to grow in virtue and be on guard that, yeah, the devil, especially in my mirror hates us because we're trying to proclaim the good news of

marriage and how scandalous would it be? Yes, if you and Bobby were to divorce or if me and Cameron were. That would be absolutely scandalous. And we all know, we all know the situations where we have been scandalized, whether by priests or by married couple, you know, whatever. We know how heartbreaking it is because we held up somebody as a whatever. So yeah, we are on our journey together and even individually towards the Lord and growing and trying to grow in holiness, but we're not perfect, you know?

Yeah, I love what you said too about every marriage has its idiosyncrasies and it's unique. It's obviously unique. And how true is that? I mean, if every individual is unique and has their own idiosyncrasies, of course, that's going to be true of two unique people coming together. And I think that that's something I've had to be on guard against in my marriage is looking over the fence, as it were, or looking on Instagram and wondering why my marriage isn't the way I'm imagining their marriage is. Right. Has that been a thing for you?

If not, I can just talk about it. I don't mean to put that on you. No, since meeting Bobby, I'm like, Lord, you could not have placed me with a better man. Like I just, I'm just so grateful for. I'm like because I remember praying my prayers. Lord, if I could be a nun, but I'm not called to be a nun, I need a guy who could be a priest, but it's not. And sure enough, Bobby had been in seminary for three years. I just learned being a nun, you know.

And so I just when I met Bobby, I was like, OK, this is it. And I'm not necessarily just talking about the relationship of the couple, though. That's part of it. I mean, family dynamics, how the house is run, how tidy the house is. Oh gosh, yeah. It's so dangerous to start looking at other couples and judging your interior against their exterior. Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's like the envy of the Instagram, the perfect... I mean, literally, I know when I take a picture of my beautifully manicured kitchen is because I've thrown all the crap and on the couch.

In the oven. Like, yeah, literally, I'm like, all right, if I want to take a picture of this room, I just have to take all the stuff and just put it on the other room real quick and take a picture and it looks great. I went to a friend's house the other day and there was crap everywhere and like, I'm so sorry, am I, are you kidding? Thank you. This helps me to realize that all of our houses look like this.

Oh yeah. For me, it's like the Catholic, the Catholic motherhood, like, oh, whatever that people, it looks like, oh, that looks so amazing. And this looks so, you do it so perfectly. And you kind of feel like a failure. Like I don't, we all kind of at some point feel like a fraud. I mean, yes, you do. You feel like you're probably, all right, well, I'm a big fat fraud and I don't, you've kind of faked it till you make it. But yeah, it is hard to compare yourself for me in the motherhood realm.

Hoo, that happens a lot. Like, there's just so much shame, shame and judgment. And like, it's not just Catholic, it's just mother. You go on any mommy blog, Oh, it is shamtastic. Like I want to hear. I want you to talk about that. But I think one of the reasons for this, and I'd love to know your thoughts, is that as our culture, if you want to call it, that continues to deteriorate

and either downplays the importance of, say, sex or marriage or motherhood. Right. Right. Then we have to come along and redefine very clearly what we mean by those things, by sex and gender roles and things like that. So you have people trying to speak structure into the abyss that modernism has created. And so we're trying to say,

no, here's what a mother looks like, which in a way is helpful since collectively we've all forgotten, but what's harmful about it, and I imagine that's what you're getting at is. Yeah. Is that it just looks one way. Yes. And the best thing you can do is to do God's will.

Like literally, I can't tell you, you need to be a mom who does this, this, this, this. It's like, no, you do what God's will is. You do God's will. That's the best thing I could tell you. For instance, people, because I speak and I travel, people are like, oh, well, when you get married and have kids, you're going to stop doing that, right? And Bobby said to me, Jackie, I want you to do this as long as God is calling you to do this.

And I was like, I love my husband. Like, he's so good. And so, obviously, in my own discernment, I have, you know, when I had one kid, I took the baby with me everywhere for the first year as I was nursing her, and I did it with all my children. But yeah, it gets harder obviously as you more kids and I homeschool and so the travel, it is changing in my own discernment, that definitely does change. But to say like women can't work, women can't do this, you must do this, must do this. Stop wearing pants, we said said that earlier all those things that we keep insisting upon and again I think it comes from a place of.

It's chaos out there so we need order yes we need it and we do we do need it right but then it gets weird sometimes. Well you fight a bad it's like fighting a bad idea with another bad idea. And that's not the goal. Like for instance, like radical feminism, right? Bad, like bad, like women, you're the same as men. It's like, no, we're not. We're equal to men in dignity, but we're not the same. We have beautiful things that are different. I can bear life. My husband cannot. Oh my gosh, I'm going to get canceled just for saying that. You know what I'm saying? Like your husband can lift stuff way heavier than you can lift. Way heavier. Holy smokes.

He does. And your strength as a woman has nothing to do with what you can lift, it turns out. So to fight these ideas, sometimes we go the opposite way, try to create so much order, like, well, then women only, you must only wear skirts or like men. You must like, we have these, make up these like gender roles. We fight bad ideas with another, instead of saying we are uniquely beautiful and different and we have different things that we can offer as men and women in different strengths. But

that doesn't mean I have to be put in either one of these box. I do the will of God. One of my favorite scripture verses that I memorized when I was a young, a youngin, was Romans 12, 1 and 2. It was, Offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God your spiritual worship. And that says this, do not conform yourselves to this age, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect. Now, here's the thing, the will of God is going to look different for every person in every

marriage. It's going to look so different. And so I, no one can tell you this is God's will for your life. You have to discern that. And at the same time, it's not a solo activity. It's something you're discerning in relationship with trusted people. And those trusted people know your life and they know Bobby and they know about your travel schedule and your talks and your children, right? Because I fear that if you just say, well, you should just do what God's will is,

people would take that as a blank check. Well, whatever I want to do is God's will. But that's not what you mean. And it's also assuming that you are like that you're growing in a mature faith. It's kind of like the whole conscience thing. Like, listen to your conscience. like that you're growing in a mature faith. You know what I mean? It's kind of like the whole conscience thing. Like listen to your conscience. But your conscience has to, and it conforms to an objective criteria.

It's kind of like the whole contraception thing. I just read in the catechism, like you can't just, when it comes to contraception, it's not like, oh, well, I feel this way about this, right? It's like, no, it has to object to, or it has to conform to an objective criteria of morality. Like, it's not just a subjective, like, I feel, I feel. So even discerning God's will, I mean, there are going to be certain things that, that obviously, like, I'm an experienced, the fruits of the spirit, I'm an experienced peace and joy.

But also, is it a virtuous choice? Like, is this, am I like abandoning my children when I do this? Like, am I still being attuned to my children? Am I still loving the way I can? You know, so even me discerning my ministry with my family, I also have to discern all those things. Like, is this good? Is this loving? You know, so it's not just like however I feel. That's the hard part is like the church kind of assumes that you're growing in a mature faith, which is hard. Talk to me about mummy blogs being shamefests because I've had no experience of this.

I mean just everything from how you birthed your baby to how you breastfed or did not breastfeed your baby. I mean, it is shame. And I, I could say like, I love that. That's why like unsolicited advice. Yeah, go. Well, I say unsolicited advice. I, I don't give too much. Like, I only, our friends that are getting married or like that are becoming moms, there's like, I kind of try to say, if this helps, take it or like take it or leave it. Here's something that was like super helpful, but take it early. And that gives people the freedom to actually assess it. Yeah.

Whereas if they feel like you're imposing it upon them, their defenses go up against it. Even if you're right, right. Homeschooling is one of those things. Right. Like you just mentioned homeschooling. Just by mentioning that you homeschool your kids, someone's going to feel shame about that. Right. Even though you didn't intend it.

I also had four unmedicated births and breastfed my baby. People are going to feel super threatened and shamed by that state. It's like, no. So then how do you assess whether the shame blog, as you referred to it, the mummy blogs are shamefests, some of them obviously, all of them. How do you know that that, how do you know when that's saying more about you than what, than them? Most of the time it is saying more about you. I feel like most of the time we internalize,

most of the time we internalize it because of our woundedness. Um, we feel rejected. We feel abandoned. We, we feel, we feel shame. And I would say whenever we do feel those things, it's always good to reflect like, why do I feel that way? Yeah, I know I've noticed that too that When I go to a party and maybe I'm chatting with somebody I feel dismissed Well, I feel like that person didn't give me enough attention. Like what's going on there? I think I used to think what's wrong with them and now thank God perhaps growing in maturity

It's like why what's that saying about me? Yeah. Why do I feel that way? And even if they did, the thing is, even if they did dismiss you, why does it matter? Like, wow, we put a lot of our own worth based on other people's actions, which in a sense speaks the truth that we need people and we are made for community and that it hurts us. But in the other sense, like God, Thomas Aquinas, God alone satisfies and Teresa of Adelaide, you know, like God alone is enough that man, I really, Jesus satisfies all my desires and needs, but I go to people in a way that's, that's, that comes from like our need for others like we do need others but really we seek those out a lot of times in unhealthy ways so yeah whenever whenever

I go on Instagram or whatever and I feel shamed I'm like why do I feel this way or you know like when people read posts and they assume it's always about them I'm sure right yeah it's like I didn't even say that towards us wasn't even thinking he wasn't even think but champion us. Wasn't even thinking of you, champion. But that speaks to a woundedness when people assume that you're attacking them. You're attacking them. It's like, you probably think this song is about you, right? But it really, it's not vanity. It's a woundedness of I feel attacked. And I will say this is one beautiful thing about our culture is where, where it's like in the, the boomer culture,

it was very much like we don't talk about our problems and we don't, we're not vulnerable and just move on, buckle up butter, like just move on. This culture is very open about talking about our wounds, but the problem, the only, again, we go way too far sometimes and we go to the victimhood and we go to, which is like this narcissistic culture where we stay in this victimhood instead of like growing from this victim to a victor mentality, you know. So, um, I don't know why I thought about that, but I just I realize like all this, this it's beautiful to talk about all this and how we, you know, feel and stuff.

But at the same time, like Jesus calls us to be victors, not just to stay in our wounds, not just to stay victims. He calls us out of that into being new creation and into a new life through him. You know, I mean, know. It's great. Let's take a break. And then when we come back, I've got 8,000 questions I want to ask you, I think. So if you guys are in the live chat right now

and you're a local supporter, click go over to locals and ask a question and we'll get to your question soon. All right. Hey, you there, looking at me. You want the number one Catholic app on the app stores is Hello, H-A-L-L-O-W. You want the number one Catholic app on the app stores is hello H a l l o w it's a prayer and meditation app which is faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church and is incredibly well produced

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you over there. All right, welcome back. We got some questions from our local supporters and then we'll take questions from the chat if you're in the chat. Are you still doing videos with Ascension Presents? Yes. Cool. Yeah, we do them every other week. And you're doing your own podcast now?

Yeah, we just started a podcast called Conversations with Jackie and Bobby. How cool. And let me check it out. Is there a website or what is it? Our website is JackieandBobby.com. Okay. And then is it J-A-C-K-I-E? Oh yeah, there it is.

It's funny, Jackie and... Oh my gosh, you guys look so great. You're so sweet, thanks. Jackie and Bobby are both interchangeable men and women's names. Ah, yes. Like Jackie Chan, Jackie Robinson, and then you have Bobby like... You're so sweet. Thanks. Jackie and Bobby are both interchangeable men and women's names. Like Jackie Chan, Jackie Robinson and then Bobby like Bobby. What? Well, I know I know a few Bobbies who are latest, you know, with an IE. Yeah, like the Bobby. So so we. OK, but they go Jackie and Bobby dot com.

Link is in the description, Neil. Below. Yeah. Go check you guys out. That's awesome. So the podcast is conversation. It's like, it's also a YouTube. And if you subscribe to them on Patreon, you get their special podcast where they each take three shots of whiskey before recording, isn't that right?

You said that? Sure, uh-huh. Yup, that's what we said. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Or you just get a sticker. Come on. People like their stickers. They're like, I'll pay $10 a month for a sticker. Come on. People like their stickers. You're like I'll pay $10 a month for a sticker.

Oh my gosh. You're talking about accents. Accents. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I have family from Wisconsin, you know? And so sometimes I just start doing that, you know? I don't know where it comes from. Actually that started sounding like Buffalo. Like one time I was in Buffalo and they said Seattle. Yeah, what? Seattle? Like a waitress, I was like, see, I would. Oh, yeah. You know, there's a woman here in Subinville. I go and I buy something. I don't say where she's from, because I want to out her or make her feel bad.

But the way she says thank you really annoys me. How she say thank you. Thank you. Something like that. Sounds like she's like a valley girl. Is that what that is? Thank you. Like, oh, my gosh, thank you. Thank you.

Why are you saying, yeah. Here's the other thing that bothers me. I'm sure I have done it is when you say goodbye to someone on the phone. All right. See you. Mm hmm. Yeah. Bye. Mm hmm. Yeah. Bye. That's a thing people do, right?

Bye. Yeah. Right. The tag. Right. Right. Right. You know, right. I do that. Do the tag thing, you know. Yeah, that's not bad, though. You know, right. Me, Neil, anything and any annoying.

Oh, oh, here we go. I had a lady at church who would say far instead of fire. She would say far and instead of desire, she said desire. So when she would lecture church, the far of the southern. No, it wasn't even like the far. I was like fire, fire.

What's some of your pet peeves? And you can you can feel free to jump in and like talking life, everything. Oh, Lord. I've got one that's going to offend all of my friends. I definitely have pet peeve.

One of my biggest pet peeves is driving like in and when people are in the fast lane and they are not passing, it's like the point of this lane is to be- Let me remind you. Is to be passing. I wish I had a sign that was like, because they're literally signs that said,

slower traffic, keep right. And oh, it bothers me to high heaven when people are in the fast lane. Those magnets on the back of cars that say, who saved who nobody? Nobody saved anybody. Wait, what you know the animal footprint who saved who like you rescued a dog No, you'd no one rescued anybody unless you drag them out of a burning building That bothers me also people chew their ice

So much mine's are perpetual snifflers. Oh, the chewing of the icing. Let's go back to that. Because sometimes I'll think to myself, I thought you were a decent person. And then they'll drink and they'll chew their ice in front of me. Mine is people go to the bathroom and chew it.

Chewing with their mouth open. God. Yeah. Like literally, I had a friend in high school. He was really good friend of mine. And he thought maybe I liked this other dude. And then he saw the guy eat a salad, a salad. And he was like, Oh no, you could never. Cause I, so by the way, so I have very sensitive ears. And when I read St. Terez of Lizzie's story of a soul, she talks about that.

Seriously. She talks about that. She goes, yeah, she, there's a part I'm like, she's like, I have very sensitive ears. I'm like, Oh, me too. Me too. And she's like, and there was a nun behind me clicking her beads. And I'm like, oh, I get annoyed by that too. Terese. You know, I think I was like 19 or 20 reading this book and she was 24 when she died. So I thought I have time to be as holy as Terese. And she goes, and I wanted to turn around with all my might and look at this sister. And I was like, how beautiful is it? And then she, this is where we depart. She goes, I didn't slap her.

And then I listened to the noise intently and made it as if it was a chorus to Jesus. And I'm like, you've lost me. Yeah, you've lost me a woman, you know, cause I'm like, I, I can hear people's watches ticking two pews ahead of me. Yeah, that's how now sensitive ears. Anyone else? It's like, it's a good, it's a curse and blessing. It's a blessing because musically you can hear harmonies, you can hear accents, all

those good things, but then you can hear everything you can hear. Like I will literally be in a crowded place like a church and be like, Bobby, do you hear that person going? I hate the sniffle thing. You can hear like I will literally be in a crowded place like a church and be like, Bobby, do you hear that person going? I hate the sniffle thing. I'm so, I'm so offended by it. Like, I remember the adoration of someone sniffling. I'm like, you know that this is an inordinate amount of sniffling. Go away. Go somewhere else.

Do you not hear how quiet it is? And that the one thing is. Or when people are praying the rosary, but they're whispering it. Oh, I hate that. Oh, Matthew. I hate. Yeah. This is the S sound whistle. Oh, oh, the whistle, the S whistle. Yes. Don't even.

So all these noise. I'm like, Lord, time off purgatory, please. Time off. But if we would have a drink right now and I was chewing my ice, it wouldn't bother you. I don't mind the chewing ice because I don't mind the crunching sound as much as like the wet slap. I don't think people who chew their ice should be able to vote. No I keep the chewing gum. The yeah.

Oh Lord. I think during my SATs there was a sniffler and I was like, dear baby Jesus, the sniffler. Yeah. It's like just blow your nose. So yeah, you've gotten me out. I have pet peeves on driving for sure. And then I have like sound. Here's another thing that bothers me. And it's one of these things that I think is so unique that'll alienate, alienate 90% of my audience. I don't know why anybody would leave their phone on such that it bings when they get a text message. That pisses me off. I bing bing bing.

Just put it on vibrate. Put it in your pocket. I hate that. Is you do you really is that a. Yeah. You don't know that. No, I know. I. I was expecting both of you to disagree. No, I had this happen recently.

That woman, it was like, just get on the phone and call the guy. She literally was leaving voice and then it would bing and she would do it. She literally did it for 20 minutes straight in the airport. I was like, oh my gosh, just call him. Because she was voice texting with. Yes. Ding. Ding.

It interrupts the family life, too. if someone comes in and there's just this constant binging. Oh, my God. Yeah, my phone's on just silent or vibrate or whatever, but. Here's another question. Yeah. Have we gotten to the point in society where it's OK to sit in a public place and listen without earphones to a video? Is that the kind of society we're living in, Jackie?

Wait, like you're pro listening. No, thank you. But everyone does that now. OK. And even on an airplane, people do that. What is that? I don't understand. I'm like so bothered. I'm like, do I like that? I've actually given someone earphones before.

I've actually in an airplane. Someone was listening to something and I pretended that I tried to give the person a benefit. Maybe they don't have it. I'm hey, did you did you want these rights? And at that point, it's like when you hand them a tissue. Oh, yeah. Do you have a tissue? Do you want to blow your nose? Or you're like, here's ten dollars to Starbucks. Do you want to leave the vicinity?

Oh, my gosh. No, I've I've had people on a couple of flights recently where they're listening to their movie without. This is I feel like I'm becoming that fellow from Curb Your Enthusiasm. But granted, I have headphones because I am a grown adult. That's another pet peeve is when people get mad at babies on planes. OK, right, because I've had four I've had four children and I'm like, yeah, you are a grown adult. Yes, you should have brought headphones with you. Like today I had a screaming toddler behind me, but who cares?

I had headphones because I'm a grown adult. And also that child is incapable of controlling their emotions and crying. You as an adult are capable of not chewing your ice in front of my face or sniffing every five seconds or listening to that YouTube video. I don't mind when toddlers are toddlers, but I mind when adults are toddlers. I mean, that. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Make adults make toddlers, make adults adults again. Make Istanbul Constantinople again. Okay.

Abby, can I take questions? Yes, sure. Do you want to say more about Jackie and Bobby dot com? Jackie and Bobby. Okay, here's what I wanted to say. Yes. And then you can do another pitch. OK. Speaking of accents.

Yeah. All right. I once met a woman in Canada who had not yet realized I was Australian because we were just meeting and she introduced herself as I'm going to do it in American accent. B A R B like Barbara. Barb. Right. Yeah. But when I say that word, it sounds like this. Bob Bob. It sounds like how you say B.O.B. Right. Yeah. But when I say that word, it sounds like this. Bob, Bob, it sounds like how you say B.O.B. Right. Like, it's going to be like Bob.

Bob. But the way I say barb is barb. She's like, hey there, I'm barb. I'm like, you know, Bob, she's like, not Bob, barb. Yeah, I know I can't do that. But that are like my other Australian. I only have two Australian friends, maybe three, four. But I'm like, say you're like, say summer, summer, summer. He let me try. Let me say summer.

Summer is that that was my American accent. That's pretty good. It don't lie to me, though. Summer. What is it? I know what you did. I know what you did last summer. Beer beer beer beer beer beer whatever. Awesome. What a great podcast. Totally. All kinds with Aquinas. Beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer,, just things that people, just human formation, things that like, even if a non-Catholic stumbled upon the podcast, they would be like, wow, or just people with amazing testimonies. Like, I know a few people who are miracles that have been sent to the Vatican for the canonization of saints. And

so, I love those kind of beautiful testimony stories that are inspiring and or just very human like Catholic psychologists. And I love like Napro, Napro technology and surgeons and people. I'm like, I wish the world could know more about this. So you're very you and my wife are similar in that regard. Yes, very passionate about this. And that's because she had endometriosis. Right.

She had doctors trying to put her on the pill. Yeah. And then she gave me time about that, brother. I had doctors trying to put her on the pill. Yeah. And then she realized. Oh, give me time about that, brother. I could just talk about that. Well, let's do it. Maybe there'll be a question about it. OK.

And that will be your cue to talk for an hour. Avi says, are Jackie and Bobby still involved with the Word on Fire Institute? Used to work for them, right? Yeah, we worked for them about a year and a half. And then in May, we quit. And we are just doing our own thing. Liz Leonard says any advice or practices to challenge and grow in marital relationship?

That's a very broad question Liz. Any advice on practices to challenge and grow? One thing my wife and I used to do when we had like zero money for date nights is go to Costco and eat samples. Oh my gosh, I love it. Yeah, that's what we did. That was our date night. And I think to do when we had like zero money for date nights is go to Costco and eat samples. Oh my gosh. I love it. Yeah, that's what we did. That was our date night.

And I think we learned that we actually learned that from any and Kane Hickman. That is hilarious. But that would be one thing I would say is like carving out a date night every single week. And if you can't go out and you have kids having a date night at home, but finding a way to make it like to set it apart. Yeah. This Wofford said when they were really poor, didn't have very much money, they would every few months go to Olive Garden and split a tour to Italy sampler

and then get extra breadsticks and salad. That's amazing. Because they didn't have very much money. Yes. So I would say if you can pray with your spouse or if you like reading with your spouse, for me, Bobby and I, we really like growing intellectually together. We like doing no venus together. We like reading books.

So even devotionals, like Bobby and I, hey, hey there, plug for the book. Bobby and I wrote a book called Forever a Catholic Devotional for Your Marriage. Shut your face. Shut it. For Your Marriage. Did it just come out? No, it came out a few years ago, but it's like a six week devotional for you and your spouse. Oh, yes, out a few years ago, but it's like a six-week devotional for you and your spouse.

Oh, yes, I've seen this one. And it's like literally a little 500-word blurb per day with some questions to ask each other or like a prayer to pray together, exercise, stare each other in the face for three minutes and see what happens. See who wins. See if you can keep your note. I've been thinking that a cool book to put together would be a book with short excerpts from great authors and thinkers that are designed for date nights.

So like, maybe we can't read the entire of the Brothers Karamazov together, but like, maybe there's this section that has a little introduction and a little outro that we can read in like 15 minutes and just feel pleased about ourselves that we did something other than watch The Office again. Hey, we would do it. Yeah, I love being able to talk with Bobby about intellectual things because we're normally, well, he reads a ton. Like I thought I read a lot and he reads just a ridiculous amount a week, whatever. So I'm always asking him, like, what are you reading? And he gives me little things. But we love having those ways that we can

grow together intellectually, spiritually together, playing together. Yeah. Yeah. Findings. Yeah. Like Bobby and I went axe throwing because we live in Texas now. So axe throwing was one of our, it was like a bowling alley, but they have like a bowl. So like, yeah, of course my wife has EDS, so she would have thrown an axe. I think she would dislocate her entire arm.

But we can do other things. No axe throwing with Cameron. Sitting. Yeah. We've created this space in our room with like two comfortable chairs and like foot stool thing. And so it was nice last night to kind of get the kids a bit early and just to have a drink and to sit down and just be together. It's so lovely. You have to fight for that time.

Yeah. That's why Bobby and I were very adamant on like, we want to make sure our kids have a bedtime because we want our alone time. Because your marriage is more important than your relationship with them in that they came from your marriage and they'll be sustained by your marriage and they need you to be well. And so prioritizing your spouse, not to the neglect of your children, but prioritizing your spouse. In whatever way that, yeah. And however you can do that.

Yep. No shame, but do it. Arush, you're a bad parent. Michael Villalma says, what are proper expectations for kids in Mass? I have a two month old, two year old and four year old. Good luck. Yelma says, what are proper expectations for kids in mass? I have a two month old, two year old, and four year old. Good luck. He's like, I feel like mass is always a mess.

How do I make them behave perfectly? LOL. LOL, you don't. Especially not before the age of reason. They are unreasonable creatures. You cannot reason with them. So. I love it.

Really, when you go to the back of a church, like if you are at a, like I'm at a massive parish has 8,000 families. When you go to the back, it is all the kids who are between one and three. They are all squirrels. It's like the squirrel is squirrels in the back. So between one and three, it's just really rough. So just hang in there. Like literally you, as they get older Maybe around four four and a half like our four He's four and a half year old

He can sit he can sit fine in mass But even our older girls like I have my oldest as a sang when she's like a little squirrel still so she kind of is Always looking around and I'm like, you know, I'm always like Abby, put your hands. I just, I almost like tell her to do this just so she does something with her hands, you know, cause she's just like, yeah, whatever. The second one, the six and a half year old is almost, she's more chill. And so it's actually a little easier for her to sit still. So just God bless you. If you have kids under the age of reason,

that is a tough age. And right now they're outnumbered. It's like three who are all under that age. But I think not expecting your children to act like adults and being OK with them, because I think part of the frustration we parents feel towards our children is how they make us feel about ourselves and how we're parenting them. Right. So if my child acts in such a way that I feel like a failure, I don't like feeling like a failure. And when I feel like a failure, I might get angry about feeling like a failure and then direct that at this beautiful little child. So one piece of advice that old Matt Fradd would give to young dad Matt Fradd would be like, it's 100 percent okay to like just walk outside with the kids like most of the mass show for the homily for years 100%.

It would be way better for you to consistently go to liturgy with your children unless you may not want to go. I mean, okay, let me rephrase that. Like it might be the case. I mean, the catechism says this at some place that I was just trying to find, but I couldn't that these different reasons that you're not obligated to go to Sunday mass and one of the things it says is taking care of small children. So there's that but that it would be better for you to go consistently to Holy Mass and to be chill about it then for you to go and every time you go mom's angry or dad's angry right now and likes to be angry and so you probably won't persist in going to Sunday mass you might just give up altogether. probably won't persist in going to Sunday Mass. You might just give up altogether or it'll be an altogether unenjoyable experience for your children. So just go easy on yourself. Breathe all as well.

Take them downstairs. Take them outside. And they're not the children are not required to go until they receive. There's that too. So I there have been times when I have gone and then Bobby's gone. I mean, that's not ideal. But when you're out, I will say, when we were in that stage and we sat in a pew and one kid had to be taken out because they were screaming, and then another kid had to be

taken out, essentially, I can't just leave my third child, my four-year-old. They have to all come out too and then people take their seats. I mean, it's just, it's chaotic, you guys. And it's so nice when we have communities that actually help us. Like when we've had people at a church that are sitting around us, like we literally can pass our babies to, because we know them, that has been glorious,

but that is not the case so many times. So yeah, take it, they're kids, and they're gonna be that way. So I would just, the only advice that we give is like, yeah, you can have some little mass books or things that are. I found the line here, but you finish your sentence. I would just say there's little things that you can bring, but literally our two and a half year old, it doesn't matter how much stuff you bring. She's going to lose her. Yeah, like she screams.

So in paragraph two one eight one of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it says the Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation unless excused for a serious reason. And then it gives examples and it says illness. The care of infants is an example it gives. So I wish I knew that too. Like if I kind of woke up, my kid is in a particularly awful mood or maybe like it's like, OK, like maybe we decide as a family

to stay home today and mum will go or dad will go and we'll pray. The other thing is the lower expectations about what your kids should get from Holy Mass, like if all they get after you've kept them up the back for the majority of Holy Mass is they got to light a candle and like bless themselves with Hollywood. Like that's a beautiful thing. The other thing a friend of mine told me and this stuck with me was to prep them for Mass too. Yeah.

No, again, when they're really little, it's a little more difficult. But before we go in, I always say, why do we go to Mass? And my six year old, eight year old and the four, almost five year old, they're like, because we're going to say thank you to Jesus. Why are we saying thank you to Jesus for dying on the cross for us? And why did He do that? To save us from our sins. And why did He do that? Because He wants to be in heaven with us for all eternity. That's right. So, and I am like, now is Mass a jungle gym? Is it a playground? No. So, I just have to remind the purpose, like, why are we here? And we're not here to be entertained. We're here for Jesus because we're saying thank you for His sacrifice. So just a reminder, like, okay, I like that. A little prep, like the prep talk before we go into church.

I like that. Why we're here. And I think like parents might feel obligated to help their children understand every aspect of the liturgy, which hello, you don't either. So just chilling out. Just chill and take them. Just let the routine of going to Holy Mass be the education and like mom and dad being gentle with you and each other. And more is caught than taught, right? They see mom and dad praying.

And your community, your friends, you know, your neighbors. So just my advice be hang in there. Like they're not going to be perfect. They're kids. MT Nun says, Matt, Fred, you guys are cracking me up. More serious question. Any advice on navigating raising teens when spouse is not a practicing Catholic? No, it's hard. It is hard. You have teen, are you have almost teenagers? I have a 14 year old, no 13 year old, so yes.

Oh yeah, you have teens. Yeah, but I am Catholic and so is my wife. Yeah, gosh, I can't imagine. I don't know how to speak to this. I would love to have somebody on the show who can address this issue, because I know people who maybe converted to Catholicism after they got married and their spouse isn't. And that is a source of great difficulty.

But I would say like the Lord is king and we can abandon all to him and we can say, Lord Jesus, I surrender my marriage and my family to you and the difficulties in my marriage that I want to fix in my own way. But instead, I surrender it to you for you to do with us with it, according to what however you want to, but bring more good out of this, you know, then then bring good out of the things that I feel like I'm failing at, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I just heard a mom give a talk about this actually, how she had her conversion when her, her sons were teens and, and she wasn't even Catholic. So she converted, she became Christian.

She was reading her Bible. And at this point, some of her sons were like, oh my gosh, Mom, you know, and they were growing up, I think, kind of atheist. And then her one son finally started kind of reading the Bible and was becoming Protestant, and she became Catholic, and then he was arguing with her about all that stuff. Interesting. She just prayer, yeah, and giving it to the Lord, but being an example because and not, I would say, just offering them in the invitation, offering them encounters with Jesus. I mean, you are still their parent. They are teenagers. They are still under your

roof, right? So one praying is massive. Being an example of love. And then just the invitation. Like, asking your spouse to at least not contradict me. Right. Like even if you can't get on board with this, could you at least not? Yeah, you can still have great conversations with teens. You can still invite them to like, hey, there's a retreat at the, I mean, you're still their, you know, mom. And I would just say find opportunities for them to encounter the Lord. But yeah, prayer, man. And St. Monica, St. Monica.

I keep going back to this line from Jacques Philippe in his book about peace, where he says, prior to becoming Christian, we often want the wrong thing in the wrong way. Then we become Christians. We now want the right thing, but we often want the right thing in the wrong way. We're sort of fretful and anxious about our children being holy or our spouse being a certain way or ourselves being a certain way. Instead of looking upon them and ask with the same patience that our Lord looks upon us with.

And so what we want to do is abandon all this to our blessed Lord who loves us more than we do and want the right thing in the right way, this sort of peaceful way. Because as Jacques Philippe says, and he's spot on, there is never a good reason to lose your peace. All the reasons we offer to lose our peace are bad reasons. Period. The end. No exceptions. And that takes a lot of faith, especially when things seem to be unraveling, having to stand there and trusting in the Lord. Amen. OK. I help, says Caleb, teach my parish's marriage prep classes. What is the best advice

for engaged couples? Go 200 words on this. I know right? Like five words. Best advice for engaged couples. Hmm. I mean, I'm trying to think when Bobby and I were engaged, we asked married couples the same thing. Like, what would be your best advice for us? I had multiple different answers, so I'm trying to think, there's not just one piece of advice. Is there one that comes immediately to you? Like, what's the best piece of advice? The only way to give a best piece of advice for engaged couples is to be so general as to be completely unhelpful, which is namely, the two of you should love Jesus Christ and treat your

relationship with him more importantly than you do with each other. Yeah, I would say that. And then I would say communication. It's massively important to learn how to communicate well, like learn how to fight well. Yes. Learn how to commute like every part of marriage. I mean, this is a person you are going to be the most intimate with. You have to be able to communicate even about those most intimate things. And if you can't, oh, it's, it's going to be rough. Conflict resolutions were huge for us. Huge. You have to learn how to argue. You have to learn how to be able to bring up difficult things.

So that would be, yeah, after loving Jesus and loving like only even the man of your dreams, the woman of your dreams is still not God. They're not gonna satisfy every desire of your heart only God can do that The second thing would be like you have to learn how to communicate That's always like the number one thing Pete reason people get divorced is like they don't communicate and 20 years goes by and they grow In resentment and then they get like one person like I don't want to do this anymore So to the point of conflict resolutions my wife and I both served on net ministries and that's where I learned how to Are you in it? No, but a friend of mine told me that your guys is how you guys do it to explain resolutions my wife and I both served on net ministries and that's where I learned how to Know but a friend of mine told me that your guys is how you guys do it to explain Oh interesting because I probably only know like a little piece of it. Yeah. Well, it's quite simple

Often when we say sorry to each other in everyday life, we say hey, sorry about that and the other person says it's fine Don't worry about it. But it's it's not fine and I am worrying about it, which is why we're discussing it Yeah But it's it's not fine. And I am worrying about it, which is why we're discussing it. So my wife and I have the language and have since the beginning of, hey, when you did this, I felt this or I thought you were saying this. This is how I took it. And then the other person, if they've committed some fault says, OK, please forgive me, and then you say, I forgive you. And that language feels really clunky and foreign at first. But it's really important that we say, please forgive me. And then you say, I forgive you. And that language feels really clunky and foreign at first.

But it's really important that we say, please forgive me. I forgive you. Please forgive me. It's fine. It's not fine. That's why I'm asking your forgiveness. That's really important. Also, I think it's really important to not use

kind of absolute statements. Like, you always do this. So every time we do that, because that's not true. Like, you don't actually always do this. Like, there's times, like at least when you're sleeping, that you don't do this. So every time we do that, right, because that's not true. Like you don't actually always do this. Like this times, like at least when you're sleeping that you don't do that. Yeah. So being kind of modest in our critiques and using that language of forgiveness has been huge enough. But when you say I felt they can't say, no, you didn't. Yeah.

It's like, no, I felt this way when you said this or when you did this. And then Bobby and I also do the, now you can't change the past. So we, it helps us to say like in the future, it would really help me. Yes. You did this. Yes. Yes. Yes. So in the future, like I know we can't change what we just did or you just did, or I just did, but in the future, it would really help me if this, that has been really helpful. That's really good language, especially because as you referenced earlier, we all have different love languages. We receive things differently. So you might you might even be admitting that okay, this is a fault on my part.

So it would help me if you would do it this way because I would receive it better. Like maybe I should be able to receive it in the way you're doing it, but I'm finding it difficult to so since you love me and since we want these things to go more smoothly. If you could do this, that would help. Like Bobby, but one of our things, like Bobby's like, it would happen in the future before you criticize me, it would help me if you said thank you. Like thank you for doing the dishes. But could you also? Like he's like, I don't care if you like give me correction or crit- but like just acknowledge that what I'm doing for you, say thank you. Like, cause one of our fights that we always time I was like he was mowing the lawn and blow and I was like babe

There's leaves all over and he was just mad and like a silent treatment whatever and he's like nice. No, I'm like tactic Yeah, oh I do the silent treatment too. So I don't say anything that I wanted to not take that, you know be able to take back But to be like in the future like acknowledge what I did and say thank you and then say and by the way could you also Do this so that's how we just say in the future could you really like that? I think another thing that my wife and I have found helpful is to say like I've seen my wife like what can I do? That when I do it you feel loved by it. Yeah, cuz I'm a massive words of affirmation guy Yeah, my wife doesn't care. So I'm like, honey, you are gorgeous. She's like, thank you. She doesn't care.

I may as well have said like the stove is black. What's her love language? Her love language is acts of I think it's quality time and acts of service. So when you like the other day, the floor, I put together a little shoe rack of hers in a car. I just put together and put her shoes on. I went, hey, I did this. And she's like, oh my God. Like she felt very like I love you so much. Right.

I was for me. Yeah, it's definitely physical touch. So if like we're driving and she'll touch my neck or touch my hand, I feel very affirmed. Words of affirmation. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But that's very interesting because the way we give love isn't necessarily the way our spouse receives it. That's right. Liz says, was curious if she Jackie knows Leah Darrow. I know she went through a miscarriage within the past year Jack. Did she Leah? Yeah, both both

Yeah, both of us have very I'm sorry. Yeah, she says any advice on navigating that experience Yeah, so Yeah, both Leah and I like I was in September I think she was in January or February and we both had like a lot of blood loss and had to go to the hospital and like, I had to get a blood transfusion because of, it was crazy. Um, so I would say for me, I know a lot of women it's, you have to process the, just like any kind of grief, you process the grief. Um,

it's really good to be able to talk, like talk about it. And, um And hopefully you have community that you can process that with. We named our baby, like our babies, actually I had three miscarriages in a year, so we named all of our babies. And yeah, for me, some women really have a hard time and they really blame themselves. Like for me, I'm like, I didn't do that, but I'm like, okay, I need to know what's going on my body then because I know like this doesn't just happen, right? Like there's something

going on. That's to me, like I want to get to the root of it. Right. And so for me, like I went to a doctor, got blood work done, found out I had a thyroid, like my thyroid, like hyperthyroid, I thought it was hypo and it's hyperthyroid. And so having a doctor who's like a functional medicine doctor, who by the way, most doctors will not do a full thyroid panel. They do not do your hormonal panel. Having a doctor who's like either a naturopathic doctor, a napro doctor or functional medicine, they will do a full thyroid panel. They will do a full hormonal panel.

And then they're the kind of doctors who also like help you, whether it's a diet change or whether it's like getting medication to help your thyroid or whatever it is. But so there are resources like for women who've had miscarriages and I've like how to process that, especially because sometimes the husbands, it's hard. Sometimes husbands do have a hard time and sometimes they don't. I wanted to bring that up. Let me just kind of insert this here. So my wife said to miscarriages emotionally.

I felt very little. I felt sad for my wife, who I love and say that she's in pain and wanted to comfort her. But as far as the loss of our children who were both, you know, very early stages of pregnancy, like several weeks, I didn't feel anything. And I suspect that it's not a good idea to berate myself for not feeling something because of course, feelings, we can't judge ourselves based on our feelings. Yeah.

Cause then yeah, it's hard because then you kind of feel bad. Like, why don't I feel that? Like, I just never went down that road because I know that intellectually people can process things differently and that's okay. And then some men kind of go, they are do have a really hard time and nobody asks them, asks them how they're doing. So yeah, it's kind of, we had a, um, like, a miscarriage resource book of like how to process the grief of losing a child because everybody processes it differently. And, and then, yeah,

if you are able to talk about it, do you have community? Are you able to talk about it with your spouse? So, because yeah, Bobby, same thing, like he hadn't even seen an ultrasound yet. So it was hard, like I'm not as connected. And then you feel, you kind of beat yourself up over that for like, I don't feel as, it's just hard. Like intellectually intellectually it's a very sad thing. You feel. The thing I don't think I would say I felt guilt, but the thing I felt conflicted about was I want to experience what you're experiencing because I know you, my wife are experiencing

pain. I want to, I want to feel that with you so I can go through this with you, but I didn't feel that. Right. I just felt bad for her. Yeah. And then, yeah. And then I will say it is also possible to have postpartum when you miscarry to have postpartum depression, postpartum. I had a lot of anxiety. So my functional medicine nurse, she gave me, she had me go on bioidentical progesterone, which like immediately helped. Like Bobby was like, you like came out of a cloud.

He's like, you had like a cloud of just, you weren't yourself. Like you lost all the color of your life, like you weren't motivated. And I read that like progesterone is like the calming hormone. And so when you, there was a lot of anxiety where it's like, it was amazing how taking, just having some progesterone like helped a lot. It was like, it was like a cloud lifted. I was like, oh my gosh, I feel like back to myself. So also kind of paying attention to the physical signs

of what's going on. Just because Leah Darrow was mentioned, I just want to say I love her. I just have such affection for that woman. She's so good. Yeah. And she's fun. Competent, fun, awesome.

Yeah. What's she doing these days? I haven't been in touch with her forever. They have a farm. She's living the farm. She is living the farm life. How am I? There's got to be a significant percentage of Catholics who now are doing the farm life thing. Oh yeah. Well I want to do the farm life thing. I do not at all. Not at all. Super happy to live on a street where occasionally we hear gunshots. Next. Oh where we hear gunshots. I'm actually like at least he's like a backyard garden, maybe get some chickens, you know.

Yeah. Well, we do. We do have that. We have bees. We're getting chickens. Do you really have bees? Yeah. Yeah.

My son is a huge, he loves bees. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. So we just extracted our full honey and it was lovely. Nice. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll give you a jar before you go. I don't think our HOA will allow some chickens, a spum. We'll just hide them back there. Yeah. Oh, okay. So they're on a farm. Good. I'd love to be in touch with her. Her and I started at Catholic Answers the same time. That's right.

When? What year was that? 2012, I think. Okay. Okay. So we, when we, my wife and I arrived from Canada, she was out and she so kindly gave us her apartment. Me and my wife made two kids for like, I think it was a week or something.

Oh my goodness. Yeah, she rocks. She does. All right, let's see. C Louise says, I don't know if you have already talked about this, but I'd love to hear Matt and Jackie, two of my favorite online speakers, talk about Catholics fostering and adopting babies and children. I would love to see either of you interview Catholics or any Christians who may have done

this with their marriage, but also single Christian Catholics. So open up this vision for Catholics, single people to do this too, to generally encourage and help others to consider this more often is possible. And hopefully anyway, I want to say this real quick. And then, first of all, the word hero gets thrown around way too much, way too much. Like our teachers are heroes. No, no, they're not. Unless they save someone. They're not. They're not. Shut up. They're not. Your definition is very smart. But foster parents are heroes.

I just think in fact, my wife just did a whole foster parent class this past weekend. Really? Yeah. So we're heroes. Suck it. No, we're not actually. We haven't fostered anyone yet, so we're heroes. Suck it. No, we're not actually. We haven't fostered anyone yet, but we're really open to it. So we're going through this right now. And actually on our podcast, I have somebody who is a friend of mine who has fostered and fostered and adopted. Have you done this podcast already?

No. And so I have like a good list of people who I'm like are on the really close. But yes, one of them is I have a lot of people in my life that are amazing. One person I know has fostered like 12, they have 12 kids that they're fostering at the same time. Not just like, oh, they foster 12 kids, no, at the same time. But I, yes, my friend who I want to interview, she actually has spoken at her church and like, I'm like, could you imagine if like

at every church they had someone who was a foster parent come up just for an announcement and say, hey, we have a hundred thousand kids in this diocese or in this state that need a foster parent. Can you imagine if every church like one couple? I heard that we have 60,000 children in Ohio who need to be. Right. I think in Florida is like a hundred thousand. It was like where my friend is. Like there are a lot of kids. But you're right to have one couple. That's right. Can you imagine if one at every parish one couple just said was inspired by that?

I mean, I so yes, that is something that I am. I'm like very passionate about in the sense of like, I feel like some people just don't know. And all you need is a witness. Like I just love people who are witnesses and so I have quite a few friends who are witnesses of being adoptive parents and foster parents and so when my one friend whom I'm thinking of, like she's just a, she and her husband are beautiful witnesses of that and so I'm gonna have her on the podcast soon. So glad you saw that. Yes. Well again, links in the description. Subscribe to their channel and you'll see that excellent episode. Good for you for doing that.

Um, let's see. Dude con, probably not his real name, says father of several tweens looking for advice for helping them discern between marriage and religious life. Is there a third option for committed Catholics? So there's consecrated life, is there a third option for committed Catholics? So there's consecrated life, which can come out in religious life or single consecrated, like consecrated virgins, or even I have one of my best friends, she is a, she's taken her first vows as a consecrated person of the missionaries of Maximilian Kolbe. So they're not nuns. They are consecrated life. So you have the consecrated vocation, then you have the married vocation. So I have friends who are like consecrated virgins who took vows under the bishop in their diocese.

And I have people who are consecrate. So there's different in within the consecrated life, there's many different ways, you know, or you could be a consecrated single person where you make a vow to be single hardly for Jesus. Yeah. Janet Smith, Dr. Janet Smith has done that. There you go. Or you could be a consecrated single person where you make a vow to be single hardly for Jesus. Yeah, Janet Smith, Dr. Janet Smith has done that. There you go. Yeah. I think for us, what's really important is just exposing our children to a lot of wonderful

priests, nuns and married people. And that really helps so that they can, you know, I didn't see a nun in a habit growing up. Me neither. And many of the priests that I knew growing up were much older and didn't wear the clerics either. So moved to Steubenville because they're everywhere. Yeah, but you're right. Just exposing the holy people. They're normal people.

Yes. There we have priests over for dinner. We have our nun friend, like Sister Miriam, when she comes over, we have, we want them to see all different stages like our six and a half year old, the little, my little red curly girl. She's like, dad, when is God going to bring me a man? Cause she's like, mom, I want to be a mommy like you. And I grew up. I'm like, you're going to be a better mommy than me. When you grow up, she's just such a little, she, she's the kind of the heart, the sensitive heart.

It's like, I want to start a daycare. And she really thought she could like, could. So she started getting everything ready for her daycare. I said, baby, I said, you know, you know, you have to be an adult, right? And she goes, no, she started crying. She really thought, oh my gosh, this little sweetheart. Other kids are ready just selling lemonade stands. Well, her older sister is like, I want to be a CEO. I'm going to be the boss of you.

And she's like, I'm going to be a money, you know, I'll run the orphanage. Maybe that's beautiful. That's beautiful. And Anka says, what an awesome guest. My question would be how to be a part of society that doesn't value nor respect family, women, men, chastity and honesty and how to bring up the children in such an environment. You know what I will say?

I I thought Neil was laughing, but it was something he was talking about. Like, that's not funny, Neil. I actually think it's a benefit. I thought Neil was laughing, but it was something he was touching. I'm like, that's not funny, Neil. I actually think it's a benefit. It's it's almost like I feel really grateful that we're growing up in a society or our kids are in this like kind of crazy because it's all out in the open. You know what I mean? Like, I know all the arrows the devil's throwing at us. So I, as a parent, am like, I'm ready to have conversations

with my children about these things. Whereas in the past... Because I hope they don't find out about it until they're 14. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, we're not going to talk about porn. We're not going to talk about sex. We're not going to talk about all this stuff, homosexuality and all that stuff. It's like, no, I know I'm going to have conversations with my children about all these things, like about abortion, about our... They're they've already seen people. They're like, is that a man or a woman?

I'm going to have to. So I almost feel grateful as a parent that this is all out in the open. Like, it's not like I hope they don't find out about it. You know what I mean? Like I have to have these conversations. Why are you laughing? I'm so sorry. I don't know who said this. And you tell me how offensive this is on a scale from one to ten. So it's like, you know who really loses in the transgender age?

Manly looking women. Manly looking women. Why? I don't get up because like there are some women who might look a little more masculine. You see them and now you're not sure. Whereas 20 years ago, usually, oh, yeah, it's a woman. And they like, I don't know, might be a man wearing a dress. I don't know. I don't know. Sure, I don't know, might be a man wearing a dress. I don't know if that's... I don't know. Sure, I don't know.

We all lose... I don't know, but there were, we were at a, we were at our kids ballet class like years ago. And there was, there was a man with long hair and they're like, Daddy, is that a man or a woman? And the guy was like, smoking outside a bar. So he kind of heard the comment and started laughing. Good thing he started laughing but he had long hair and I had to tell my girls like, guys can have long hair or short hair and girls can have short hair. Like you

know we're not gonna- Will see this is the point that we made earlier about fighting a bad idea with a bad idea is a bad idea because just because the transgender, which it is that lies to people and encourages to go along with the lies, might say it makes men and women to stereotypes where it's like if a girl like soccer, well, maybe she's a bully. And. Right. And then if you all of a sudden just say we are, we are these stereotypes,

you're not helping. Yeah. It's like, you're not helping. Then we fight the bad idea by saying, well, then, then girls cannot like that. Am I go, won't like it. Right. Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So just for the teens, I would say the best thing you can do is be honest and vulnerable with your kid, like honest.

And you as the parent are supposed to be the expert on these topics because if you're not the expert, they will go to somebody else. So I will say, when I meet people who are like, I'm from a Catholic, a really Catholic family, like my family was so Catholic. And then they tell me like, but my sisters are no longer Catholic or my brothers. And I'm like, okay, but what's the but I want to know why. And you know what it is most of the time? I'm like, but where did the peace where what happened? And the one thing that most of the time I'm like but where did the peace where what happened and the one thing that Most of the time is the case is their parents did not talk to them about sexuality and where there was shame around that And so guess what they had to go to the culture to find out anything about sex because their parents were too afraid and there

Was too much shame around it. They just didn't mention it. So what happens they go look at porn and then they sleep with her now they're sleeping with their... It's like parents have to be the experts and it has to be something that's like just very human formation. It's the human formation is so important. So actually the guy, Adam Young on The Place We Find Ourselves, he actually has a podcast on the puberty, like puberty talk, the talk about sex, facing your own sexual story, like how your parents, like when you don't talk about something that's so important like sex, it fills it with shame, automatically just by not saying anything about it.

And there's another book out that was saying like, when people are raised with that idea of sex, then the shame behind it, they actually have less, like their marriages are like less satisfying because they're like, that doesn't go away in marriage all of a sudden. So to me, that has always been like my kids, when it's with age appropriate, whatever, to see the beauty of the body, to see the beauty of their sexuality, to see the beauty of, so like I want to be a parent. I'm not, I don't want to be afraid of anything. Like I, they, like my little boy was like Mama, where does the baby come out?

I'm like well the the the baby's in my uterus and then comes out the birth canal out my vagina and then the baby And they're like, okay, you know, yeah, it's so important. I think that we use accurate terminology Hey, and they're not ashamed. Yeah It's like you're the one who feels awkward not your kid and you don't need to push your awkwardness on your kid So you can just have a frank conversation. And they can tell, even if you use the correct terms, they can tell if you are embarrassed. They're very intuitive about body language, about how you say things. And so there's a group called the birds and the bees, and they actually educate parents and parishes and moms and parishes, like how to talk about these kinds of things without shame. And they're like, yeah, you

are the expert on this topic, and you need to be the expert, because or else your kids are going to go to other people to find the expert opinion. So now the thank you. That was really good. The question had to do with bringing up children in such an environment. I would also add that, like, if it's possible

to find a better environment. Now, there's no perfect environment. There's no Eden, right? We don't live in Eden, but there are definitely better environments. So maybe consider that. I often think that finding a family in secular society away from community and the sacraments and good Christian living is like finding a children, a child in the woods.

Imagine if you walk into the woods, you just found a child. You like, what the hell are you doing here? If you don't find help, you will die. And I think that that's true of a family in a secular society without support. So that's why people should consider moving to Steubenville. They really should. We just, just last night, we had members of the Pittsburgh Symphony play a concert at Franciscan.

The music was the most beautiful music I've ever heard. You really see the difference between a professional and someone who's like really good at it. Huge difference. But we just came as a community and listen to this and don't have to be student bill. But like there's obviously great pockets of wonderful Catholics around the country. And if you're blessed enough to be able to have that mobility Due to working from home or something like that to seriously consider doing that yet You need community because then especially when your kids are teenagers and start doing the eye rolling like mom and dad

Yeah, they have other people in their life who they respect who they're like, okay It's not just mom and dad who are like pushing these rules on me, you know? These other people are saying the same thing to their kids. Yeah. So it's super important. There's a book called Brick by Brick by, I want to interview them as well, Andre and Angel Renier. Oh, I know them.

From Canada. Yeah. Yeah. They're awesome. They're Reniers. And they wrote a book with their kids. They're seven kids who are all missionaries and their spouse some of their spouses Who helped write the book too of like how do you raise a a good catholic family and keep them catholic and they kind of name

Those things like you need good community. You need other people in your life. So that's a good book, but brick by brick Okay. Awesome And we have a question here from isabelle ask her if she'll move to Steubenville. Will you move to Steubenville? Hey, let me tell you, two years ago, I didn't know I was going to be in Dallas. So who knows? I feel like once God got me out of California, I feel like a missionary. Are you glad to be out of California? I mean, I missed the weather and the beach, but I am very grateful. I am very grateful for the community in Texas. Like we said, it's crazy in California right now, as people are saying this mass exodus from the blue states, you have family in California.

They talking about that. It depends what part you're in, because I was in Orange County and Orange County is not Los Angeles. Gotcha. Los Angeles, in parts of Orange County, you really, it was, it just depends where you live. So yeah, I mean, there were parts of like in Newport beach, you wouldn't even know. You're like, is COVID happening? But then you would go in LA and it was much different. So it depends. But I had a ton of friends leave California and go to Texas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, maybe

Steubenville, Nashville, wherever. I mean, they just were tons of us, lifelong Californians who never ever thought we would leave left. I've met so many people who say they've moved to Steubenville because they heard me talking about it. No, they are you serious? 100% serious. Swear to God, this keeps happening to me.

And it's because I'm, it's not, it it's it's not just because I'm like, hey, it's simple. It's because I'm chatting with people who also live here. Yeah. Talk about the community here. And I joke that there's going to be a lot of really angry people angered at me specifically in February. A couple just moved here from Hawaii with their kids. Oh, they did. They did. OK, Bobby and I are at that point. I'm like, maybe going to dial down this to him. We no they didn't. They did. Okay. Bobby and I are like.

At that point I'm like maybe I'm going to dial down this to him and we'll talk about it. Or like Lord, could you please let your will be below like a certain line of the United States? Because we are both warm weathered like he's a Florida boy, I'm a California. I'm like Dallas is like the cold because it snows once, twice a year in Dallas and maybe not even that. But we just came the year of the freeze when the whole grid went down yeah so we don't know what a normal

winter is like but that is too cool that that's like yeah you know we're warm with I'm like please Lord let your will be below a certain left or above a certain thermometer right right ah very good I think we're done anymore I mean we're done as far as questions that was really abrasive I mean I think we're done with those questions on local do Do we have any questions on? On the chat That's okay We can we can ask that questions. Even if they don't pay us. Let's see

the stereo This is so lovely I love pints with Aquinas because I get to have such a diverse array of beautiful people like yourself. We talk about all sorts of different things, you know, like apologetics and church history. And then when your wife is in the room, we talk about your wife and I love to talk about crazy things. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Get us talking about relationships. You gotta be careful because she will try to get you on her show while you're here. And if you do, who knows

what will come out? She already texted already texted me to a very similar. We have opinions. Let me tell you. You do. We do. Good. Yeah. Sweet. I think that's it, guys. Thank you for being here, everybody. I want to let people know that we got two things coming up this week. Number one, we have a debate on purgatory this Thursday.

And then on Saturday, we interviewed Dr. Peter Craeft in the cigar lounge, which will be the schiznitz, which I didn't know meant shit. Do you know what meant that? The schiznitz? I said schiznitz on a Stubbenville stage once. I'm like, it'll be the schiznitz. I don't know. I'm old. I just repeat things people say. Bob Lesch is like, dude, only you could get away with that. I'm like, wait, what does it mean?

Oh, I think I've said that. I mean, it's like just another turn another way of not saying it Anyway, so we got Peter crave coming on on Saturday. That's gonna be an amazing conversation Or it won't be either way You should subscribe and click the bell because we are close to three hundred thousand subscribers And once we hit that I will feel better about myself for at least five minutes and then we'll want to have 500,000 subscribers so you can help that by clicking subscribe clicking the bell button go and check out Bobby and Jackie's podcast as well link is

in the description to that below.