Pints With Aquinas - Matt and Cameron Fradd Go on a Date (and You’re Third-Wheeling) | Ep. 537

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

Matt and Cameron sit down for a date night in studio, discussing Cameron's health, favorite memories from their marriage and what they're hopeful for about the future. 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early, score a free PWA beer stein, and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 https://mattfradd.locals.com/support 💵 Show Sponsors:  👉 Seven Weeks Coffee – Use promo code MATT for up to 25% of your first subscription order + claim your free gift: https://sevenweekscoffee.com/matt 👉  Truthly – The Catholic faith at your fingertips: https://www.truthly.ai/ 👉 Hallow – The #1 Catholic prayer app: https://hallow.com/mattfradd  💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas 🎵 TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas 👕 PWA Merch – Wear the Faith! Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com

Pines with Aquinas is brought to you by Truthly, which is a groundbreaking Catholic AI app built to help you know, live and defend the Catholic faith. Start your seven-day free trial today when you download Truthly on the App Store. And do you remember you were trying to hide this from me? Because I told you that if we got back and you were sick, I would throw you over my shoulder and take you to Florida. I told like three close girlfriends. And you told them not to tell me. Yeah. So there was days in Schuvenville that I could not walk to our next door neighbor's house.

I was too sick. Everything hurt, every step. So my knees, ankles, and hips were grinding. Every step that I took, it was excruciatingly painful. If you had to guess, what do you think it was? My guess is environmental toxins. And I do think carnivore has made my body better and stronger, but it hasn't fixed me or cured me.

I long to be well and healthy. I don't know that I will ever this side of heaven be well and healthy. Yeah, what's that like to say, out loud? Ah, it's humbling. Thank you so much for watching Pines with Aquinas. Before we get into the interview, I'd like to ask you to please consider subscribing over 58% of people who watch this show regularly

are still not subscribed, so please do it. It's a quick, free, easy way to support the channel. We really appreciate it. Hello. Hello. So, put these on, ready? Why, exactly?

Oh, because they just feel so good. You know why? What do you mean? Why? I know, but are you wearing them for the interview? No, no, no. Because I put mine in my purse. I'll take them off.

But I wonder, is this the beginning of a trend? It feels, you know how we grew up saying rose-colored lenses? Yeah. This is what they meant. But it's not rose-colored, it's orange. Yours is like neon. orange. I have one that's like a rose colored or maybe like a violet color. You're straight up neon orange. I feel like, I'm trying to think, I feel like it's antisocial behavior.

No more antisocial than this is though. Yeah. Less antisocial. But that's not accepted. You're just putting a filter between you and other people. Maybe you've just gotten so used to seeing people through filters. You're like, I cannot see the hideousness of life without filters. This filters ever. Yeah, I'm going to take them off in a second. but I just love it. It feels good. So good. Yeah.

All right. So you and I were going on a walk this morning and one of the things, ah, that's better, one of the things we talked about was how it's a good thing that we, as young people, had more confidence than competence. It wasn't a good thing, but it was, it was a blessing that we weren't aware of our incompetent, incompetence, while maybe being blind to the fact that we were. we had inordinate confidence. I have not phrased this well. Cameron, what do you try? Yeah, so I think for, we were young, we were early 20s,

and we had so much more confidence, like when we got married, I was a youth minister, and you were unemployed. I'm like, we could take on the world. It's amazing and wonderful. Unemployed and illegal. Yes.

Continue. I married in an illegal alien. But he was a good looking one that I was in love with. So it all worked out. Not even an illegal alien who was making money on the side. Nope. Just a broke alien.

The end. But we made it work. We made it work. And I think I knew, like, I think we both knew God will provide. I don't think that we had so much confidence in ourselves. Like, we can do this. It's like, we love each other. We love the Lord.

And he'll provide. Amen. Like, let's just do it, whatever he offers. So when a job offer came from Ireland, we're like, of course. We would love him. And even when they said mass is in Irish, which I thought it's mass in Ireland, but what the priest meant is it's in Gaelic, another language that you don't speak. And your husband's going to be doing music for this mass that you guys don't speak the language. We're like, that sounds wonderful and amazing.

Of course. But that's another example of my level of sheer confidence that was unearned. Oh, but you had amazing Irish. They told you, not just any Irish, Gador Irish. Yeah, but that's the thing. Not only, only that stupid level of confidence

would lead me to think that I can learn these songs in Irish and lead the choir. Yes, and you did a great job. It was amazing. It was wonderful. Isn't that wild? It reminds me of,

what is it, the coyote and the roadrunner. You know how the roadrunner or runs off a cliff or something and the coyote follows him and he's running until he realizes he's on midair when he falls? I feel like God gives us that gigantic level of inordinate confidence just to push us through. And do you think if the coyote kept his eyes on the roadrunner and never looked down, he would have been fine?

Are you going to make an analogy about the faith? St. Peter. I feel like the Lord's been doing that to me lately. Like, Cameron, get your eyes off you. Just keep looking at me. And as long as you're looking at me, you're going to be okay. Like, just don't look down. Yeah, 100%.

St. Peter, he was great. He was doing great walking across water. It was only when he looked at himself and looked down that he began to see. I don't want to get that deep this quickly, though. I want to stay superficial for a while. We'll go deep. We'll dive deep beneath those waters, find Peter struggling for air. But for now, I just, I know everyone says this,

but I'm so glad we had that time of, first of all, what do you think your parents were really thinking? I called your dad and said, hey, I just got fired on my birthday. I didn't say my birthday I would add that unnecessary but I'm now unemployed and legal and I am pumped to marry Cameron

and he was so supportive I do not understand why I think that was God's grace because that is not like my dad at all he would have had every right to be like figure it out Bucco right so someone asked for my sister's hand in marriage and my dad said no

absolutely not you're a bartender what are you doing like finish getting your degree, get a real job, and come back and ask me. Like, that's the type of dad my dad is. My dad's not one of these. The Lord will provide. He's an engineer and he thinks very logically. And I remember him saying to me, like, okay, I know you love this guy. Like, I don't question that. I don't question that you love this guy. But, you know, he can never give you the life that I've

provided for him. Whoa. That's what my dad said. What the hell, John? That's what he said. I don't know if he did. I think we should call him and put him on speakerphone. I'll call him. You took my phone away. I don't have it, but I'm happy to call him. Also, I don't know if we should do that. Your dad might get kind of angry when he finds out he's on Bints with Aquinas. Okay, last time we had this conversation, you said call your dad and see how it happened. How exact was my story? Your story was accurate. Yeah, and he did confirm. Yeah, and I think my dad, my dad did say to me, of my girls, you're the one that maybe will survive, not having. Well, what he said of the two of us is that we're able to step in different word, manure, and come out smelling like roses.

Yeah, he did say that. We've been able to do that pretty successfully throughout our marriage. We have swam through a lot of manure. So much manure. Irish manure, Canadian manure. And I'm wearing the big boots, but the manure is like coming into the top of the boots and now I'm stepping in it and what is happening, Jesus. Yep. Backstroking in the manure, but no one.

Oh, my gosh. You took it one step first. Somehow you will provide and roses will rise up and it'll be lovely. We moved from Ireland to Canada and we were on I think 28 grand a year.

I don't even think it was that much. No, I think it was less. Less than 25 grand a year. Yeah. And it was Canadian, so it's even less American. 20 bucks a week. No. And we just

we just that we couldn't afford much. Because I made more when I worked in Houston than we made And so I was, I made more at St. Thomas More in Houston than we made in Ireland together. And then same with, and then we took a pay cut. When we moved to Canada, we made even less. I want to say it was probably close to like 17 or 18,000 American that we made a year.

Three cool memories we had from being beneath the poverty line in Canada. Literally, quite literally. I'm not saying we were destitute, but we were objectively. Absolutely. Below poverty. One was when my boss drove me to work and I had no money for gas and he was putting gas in and I thought he was just going to put in like five, ten bucks. He just kept going. I was just so thankful. That was one story. I, when I went to the Y, you wanted a membership to the Y and

we couldn't afford it. And they like base it off of what you make. But I think 70% of our income went to rent because we got a house. Not a good idea. Wasn't a good idea. No, we should have lived in an apartment. But we wanted to live in a house near all our other friends. And there was were there five guys that y'all all carpooled? So each of the, all of us, all the families only had one car. And then we would only be without a car like every four or five days. So y'all would carpool. And I remember like the why said what we'd have to pay. And it wasn't much. It was like maybe $50 a month because they saw how little money we made. And it was like $25 or $35 a month. And I was like, we can't afford it.

And I was like, listen, what if I volunteer? Like, I'll scrub toilets, like, whatever you need. And they were like, well, you can't, you can't volunteer and get two memberships because I wanted the membership for you. And I was like, but I want my husband to be able to work out. And the guy at the front's like, it doesn't work that way. And I was like, but listen, can't you make it work that way? Like, come on.

Like, I could do anything. What do you need? I could do your job, you know? And I was just joking with them. It doesn't look hard. It doesn't look that hard. What do you do? And then another woman overheard and was like, oh, no.

Hey, do you know your way around the gym? And I was like, yeah, I know my way around the gym. Please, I was an athlete. I was captain of the wrestling team. Please, please, come on. Here we go with the confidence. And she said, she's like, have you ever taught a workout class? I'm like, no.

She's like, do you think you could do it? I'm like, if you mess up in the middle of the routine, what do you do? I'm like, fake it, do you make it, smile and keep going? She's like, you got a job. And the other guy was like, wait, but we can't do that. And she's like, no, I need an instructor. This woman's perfect. And wasn't it for old women?

I did a bunch of different classes, but the young. at heart class was my favorite and the young at heart was senior citizens and at the time we had two kids and I even was pregnant with our third and and I would set up like a blanket on the floor and half the times Avala would come in and like play in the mirror while I taught the class and these beautiful women there was a great thrift store in our town and they ran it and it was only open a couple days a week and they said Cameron we want you to come in early come in an hour before the store opens, we have winter clothes for your family.

And they laid out all these, like, top brand, beautiful snow coats, snow pants, boots. I'm looking around. I know we can't afford it. And I said, oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. You guys are so wonderful. We're just going to get coats and we'll be fine. And they were like, no, no, no, welcome to Canada.

You can't just have a coat. That's not how it works. You will die. You will die. Like, you need all this. I was like, no, no, no, we don't need all of it. And it was closed for you, me, Avala, and Liam. And they were like, all of it's going to be $7.

And I just started crying because they knew I didn't have enough money to buy all of it. Like, yeah. And it was beautiful. And I felt so loved by them. And these lovely young at heart ladies, my senior citizen workout, like God just provided. Yeah. We didn't have a phone. Nope.

And who cares? Like our priorities were each other and the children. and a beautiful community. I don't think one of the reasons we never felt, I don't think we would have felt embarrassed anyway, but one of the reasons that was never a temptation is that we were living with other people who didn't make much money.

Right, yeah. And we would share things with each other. I didn't need a lawn mower because Garth had a lawn mower. Yeah, yeah. And I remember I knew which stores offered sales different nights and I'd drive. So like there was a shoppers drug mart, like a CVS type store,

and they'd always mark down their stuff this certain night of the week. I think it was like Wednesday night and I would go and there'd be milk and it was like a fraction of the price. I buy all of it and then drive around and drop it off because it was going to go bad. We'd maybe only use a gallon. So I dropped the rest off at other people's houses and yeah, we were in it together. You know, I remember the day someone called saying that our kids were hungry and it wasn't payday for three more days and she was kind of crying on the phone. And I was like, hey, I got it. I have the car. I have plenty of food. I have pasta. I'm coming over. I'm making. food. And it's hard because it's so humble. Like it was so hard for her to pick up the phone and call me and tell me that. I'm sure. But I was so happy to make the last of our pasta and feed all of her kids and ours. Yeah, we are all, I think, willing to help if someone would just ask us. But that's, it's more difficult to receive than to give. Yeah. Very often. Yeah. I remember when why are we telling the story? I don't know. I mean, are we looking at our words are we, I think part of it is just what a beautiful adventure we had with our blessed

Lord. And I just want to encourage any young people out there. Like, you're making no money. That's okay. Just love your wife well. And trust in the Lord. And don't be stupid. But even if you're stupid, it'll probably be fine. Yeah. No, that might be. No, no, I think so. I think God totally provides. And like some of my favorite memories were like putting the kids on the sled and walking to the why, you know, because you had the car. I didn't have a car that day. But it was like, life was simple. Like we, they were very humble Christmases, you know, but they were good. Okay, let's check this out. The one gift I got for Christmas when we made no money and couldn't afford meat or beer was Scott Hahn's Bible Dictionary. I was so pumped. Thank you.

You're welcome. I saved up for that. I had him signed that. Hindsight, if I had called Scott and told us how poor he was, we were, he would have just said it to us for free. Well, we didn't know him back then. Yeah, and I remember when my, see, I don't know, you know, I've heard the argument that people leave their parents home and they're accustomed to that standard of living. And it hasn't occurred to them that they won't get to that standard for years to come. Unless they get a good job right away.

We knew that right away. But for us, I think it was more, it was almost like a rebellious attitude. It wasn't just that we were a young married couple and shouldn't expect to have any money for a house or meat or anything. It was more like we wanted to serve the Lord and we didn't expect other people to understand and we kind of like that they didn't. Yeah. Well, and it also like, like I knew not when we lived in Ireland and Canada, I couldn't work there, but I knew living in the States, I could go wait tables and make a bunch of money. Like worst case scenario, you know? like, but I rather live radically and rely on the Lord.

It is wild that, that, okay, so you're an American citizen. I'm an Australian illegal alien. Okay, so your husband no longer has a job. What might be an option? What if we moved to Ireland? What a wild choice that was. In the girl talk, in the middle of nowhere. That's ridiculous.

One of my favorite memories is when my mom sent us a card and it had a $50 Canadian bill, which was just an insane amount of money. And no doubt she had sent it to us to put towards rent or gas, and I went to the store and I got cheese and crackers and wine, and we just, we never had that kind of stuff.

It was a great date night. Great day night. Amazing date night. Glory to God. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Or even when we move to,

California. I don't know if you remember this. Well, before that, when I was living in Canada, Catholic Answers contacted me and said, you know, we can give you a moving allowance. And I said, you don't understand. The furniture we have, we quite literally, I'm not joking, we quite literally got off the side of the road. Canada's really good like that. Like Canada, like if they have chairs or a table, they're not going to use, they put it on the end of their driveway for other people to pick it up. And remember we would go to the rich neighborhoods?

to get better furniture. Yeah, they were great. We got great couches. So I remember saying to Tim Staples, I'm like, if you could not pay for us to move, but just kind of give us a check so we can buy new furniture. And then we went to Catholic Ancese. We went to IKEA.

We were so excited because we bought brand new furniture. From IKEA. But we thought it was amazing because it was new. It was. That was so great. And we furnished our two-bedroom, one-bath apartment. Yeah, it was like 900. square feet.

Yep. When I think back on memories like that, by the way, everybody, welcome to the show. This is Piance of Aquinas. My name's Matt Fry. This is my wife, Cameron. And we decided to have a date night tonight. And we just thought you guys may want to, you know, be part of it. I don't know, but so this is fun.

This is fun. Yeah. When I think back, I don't often think, I think of my, it's hard for me to imagine just our two children being with us. Does that make sense? When I have memories of us newly married with children, I don't think of being, like, say, in Canada with two children. I think of my four children somehow.

I don't know why. I don't mean I imagine them there. I just, I can't imagine a time when they didn't exist. They're so. Yeah, part of our family and our family unit and who we are. Yeah. I also think that when you, like I think about San Diego, we didn't know those people that worked at Catholic Answers.

And a bunch of them came. Because we bought all of our furniture at IKEA, we have to put it all together. So I don't know if you called them or one of them were like, these frads have no idea. They just bought all this furniture from IKEA. Shout out to Darren Delosier. So all these guys came over and started putting together furniture. And then as it started getting dark, Elizabeth Evans was a big pregnant with her first baby. And she's like, you know you don't have any lights in your apartment.

There was no overhead lighting. Really? Yes, the kitchen. The kitchen had an overhead light. None of the rest of the house did. So she's like, we could go buy lamps. I'm like, great. Where do you think we should go?

I can't. No, we went to T.J. Max because it was closer. And her and I just bought all these lamps and just plugged him in on the floor so the guys could keep putting together the furniture. That's right. Shut up Chuck Galucci, another fella. Matt. Oh, yeah. Matt Tachinsky.

Tishinsky. There you go. I never said. His name, correct. Wonderful fellow. Yeah, and Tim and Elizabeth Evans, they helped us. I'm sure there was more. I can't remember.

There was. Apologies to those we're forgetting, but man, people were so kind at Catholic Answers. That was wild too, right? Because we had moved to Canada. And here's what, okay, here's what happened. We were living in Ireland. We had no money. And the Lord put on my heart to speak to men about how to overcome pornography and about the

scourge that this thing is. You remember how that all went. We don't have to recount it. It might bore people. But while I was there, we had to discern between moving to Australia, small country town, but my small country town, where we would be in the same town as my parents. They'd give us a car, I think a house, and it came with a decent salary. Yeah, it was a really good job offer.

Yeah, it was. And we had a choice between that or beneath the poverty line in Canada when neither of us are from. And I called a dear friend of mine who has ceased, who's, sorry, recently gone on to meet the Lord. Evie Muldoon, and she was just a companion to me growing up. She was my best friend's mum, and she was so kind. She was the person I would go to to ask for advice. And, you know, she's actually like really sophisticated and intelligent. So when I kind of laid out my two options, I did not expect this.

She said, well, Matt, what does your heart say? Which was just such a beautiful thing to say. And I said, I think we should go to Canada. And if you remember, the reason I wanted to go to Canada is I thought maybe the Lord would want to do something with this anti-porn stuff we were doing. And I had the funniest line that I said to you, I said, babe, I don't want to wake up when I'm 30. I know because 30 was so old. I don't want to wake up when I'm 30 and be like, what if we gave it a chance? Do you remember?

Yeah. And we kind of knew we were morally certain that if we had gone to Australia, it just would have petered out because people aren't fly in your different places it's just different in Australia. Anyway, so we went to Canada, we were there.

Do you want to tell the rest of the story since you're my guest? I feel like I'm speaking too much, but, and I remember we were bathing Liam, who was a baby, clearly. We don't bathe our 17-year-old. And I said, like, let's just give this to the Lord. And, you know, like if after a year

nothing comes of it, that's all right. and we'll just go back to Australia and we can say we gave it a shot and we gave the Lord an opportunity, remember? Anyway, then I get a call from Catholic answers. I forget how it happened. No, no, no. So you already said yes to the job.

Like we moved to Canada. You're not... Sorry, you're right. I said yes to the job, we moved to Canada. Now in Canada, I said we only have a year. Let's see if the Lord wants to do something with this anti-porn stuff. And you did give a couple talks

during that time and you had started your website. First talk I gave. It was supposed to be a breakout session. I think it was in Denver, Colorado. I might be mistaken. It was somewhere in the States, though. Yeah, maybe it wasn't Denver. Maybe it was, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Kansas or Missouri, somewhere there. Anyway, so I was going just to give a little breakout, you know, to 20 people. No one knew who I was. No one probably cared, but I had a talk that I'd come up with. And so I go to the airport and they're going to fly me down, which was huge, because I had no money for anything. So yes, they weren't going to pay me, but they had some money to plan. me down. And I get a cool, hey Matt, Jason Everett, who's the key speaker, keynote speaker, can't give the talk. And we're wondering if you'd give it. And I'm like, oh, no way. I mean, I'm open to it, sure, but definitely not, right? I mean, let's try to, why can't he make it? So that was the first big talk that I gave because Jason didn't come. And I was really scared.

I think Kristolino, like, had a baby or something. There was something going on. She's usually doing that. She does that often. Every couple years, she like, pops out. There was a big reason why he didn't go. He's not one to normally cancel. For sure, for sure. And so I was practicing it in the back room and I was so nervous because I knew that all these, because it wasn't a mandatory talk. It wasn't a high school event where they had to be there.

They were all there for Jason though. Instead, they've got this like Australian fellow that never heard of. And I gave the talk and it was received extraordinarily well. And I was just blown away that it worked. Yeah, it was amazing. It was great. And then we got... I remember you being so excited afterwards.

excited afterwards. And you're like, God totally worked. It was amazing. They loved it. And you had good conversations after. Yeah, they did. And it's like, I feel like this is what the Lord's calling me too. Like, I'm made to do something like this. 100%. Yeah. I just want to preach Christ to people. Yeah. Um, anyway, so that, that's great. And then, but how did I get offered the job at Catholic Answers? Well, but then you didn't, do you want to share the other part of that? You go. So you were, you went to do the talk and they were only going to pay your flight. So you weren't expecting to get paid at all. Right, babe. And we were, barely making ends meet. Like, as I said, I think 70% of our income was rent. And we just had to be

extremely frugal with our money. And then you got a check in the mail. Like a thousand bucks or something. Which was so much money. It is so much money. I know. But you weren't expecting it. So it was just like... It was wild. It was wild. Anyway, yeah. Then you worked for Nets. And then you got a call from Tim Staples assistant or secretary. And she called to book your flight for your interview. And you're like, I'm sorry. I don't think, I don't, I don't know what this is about. And she said, I'm just, Tim told me to book your flight to come down for the interview. Yeah.

Something like that. I don't know. I don't remember. And you went to go tell your boss. Yeah. And you remember this part? You go. Okay.

So you went to go tell your boss where we were working. You're like, hey, just, you know, I wasn't applying for, you. You were trying to explain like, I wasn't applying, but they want to fly me down for an interview. And before you could even finish what you were saying, he's like, oh, please say yes. Say yes. Whatever job they offer you, even if you're a janitor, say yes. I'm so sorry. I've been trying to figure out how to make this work or how to tell you. But Canada said that you're way too far below the line of poverty. You can't stay. That's right. They wouldn't let us. They wouldn't let us stay in the country. So they wouldn't let us stay in the country. And so I think he said we had like two more months or something crazy. He's like two months and you need to be out of the country. Well, I'll wrap this next bit up. So I was so pumped because Catholic answers to me at the time was the greatest thing. I mean, I had been benefited so much from people like Tim Staples and Jimmy Aiken and Carl Keating and Patrick Madrid.

And so just to show up at the headquarters, I was like starstruck. But it turned out, I realized very quickly that this wasn't a job interview. It was a job offer. That was wild. Yeah. Wild. Yeah, because they started talking to me about like your vacation time would be this. And I'm like, why are they doing that?

And then I slowly realized, yeah. Which, praise God, we needed it. Yeah. Because we had to get out quicker than we realized. Yeah. Then we drove across the United States in your dad's car. He gave it to us. Yep.

And we were listening to Bonavere for Emma forever ago for that entire trip. Uh-huh. And it was beautiful. It was great. So beautiful. Yeah. And to go from cold, freezing cold Canada to sunshine. San Diego.

It wasn't a hard move. It wasn't hard. It's very enjoyable. Yeah, the Lord is so good. Like, I don't think we could have, like, we couldn't have planned our life. We had no idea what was going to be in store. But I think us just being open and receptive to the Lord and willing to say yes. Yeah, yeah.

Like just giving our fiat every baby step of the way. Yeah. And that's right, because, you know, you and I were walking on the beach this morning and we were talking about memories from earlier in our marriage, and I wince when you tell me some of them, because I'm ashamed of ways that I acted immaturely, say, just like I'm sure you might have recollections, and we all do. But this idea that we have to be mature before we marry

or fully somehow converted and grown up, no, no. So in a way, yeah, there are things that I regret from our earlier, earlier in our years in marriage that I've repented of. And so fair enough, if you've done something evil or something shameful, you should repent of it. But like, not to apologize so much for our immaturity. It was kind of beautiful that we got married, immature. Yeah.

I was 23, I think. 24? No, I think you were 22. I don't know. I think I was 24 and you were 22. But, man. Beautiful stuff, eh? So let's wrap this all.

this has been quite self-referential, which has been fun for me. And it's my podcast, so I can do what I want? But how could we, what advice would you offer those watching this right now who are about to propose, who are currently married in the early years, or who want to get married, have no idea what the future holds? I mean, it's, without being too glib, what advice would you give them? Trust in the Lord. Like, keep your eyes on Christ. Like, just, yeah, Just give, like, I think it's like giving your Fiat daily, like just saying yes to what the Lord's calling you to here and now and seeing what's next, but not, yeah, and always assuming the best of your spouse.

Like, I think that that, I feel like we've been married for, what, 50 years now? It feels that way. 19 years. We're going on 20. Will it will be 20 this summer? No, no, it'll be, I don't know. We got married in 2006, right? So next year, we'll be 20 years.

Oh, so it'll be 19 this summer. Yeah. But even if you say, if someone gave you a scenario, like, what would Cameron be thinking? You still don't know, right? Like, what do you mean? Like, there's still a mystery to each other. Like, I think you, like, we need to assume the best and the other because we think differently. We act differently.

And so always being ready to, like, give your spouse the benefit of the doubt and giving grace and mercy, you know. Yeah. Which comes more, I guess, generally from, yeah, Christ is my Lord, and I will not do anything to offend him. And if I do, I will repent of it and get myself together a little bit. But also, the second thing is, like, we're in this forever. There is no escape hatch. I need to get along with this woman.

I need to be kind to her. I need her to be banging on all cylinders. And then let's see what happens. And look at us. We're exhausted. That's a very long ride. It has been. You know what wrecked up?

us is our move to Steubenville. I feel like I got wrecked prior to that. You did get wrecked our family. Stubinville wrecked our family. Not that Stubinville ruined our family. Wrecked is too strong of a word. But I was wrecked prior to that. Yeah.

So I feel like. Which is wild because I would say that apostolically or mission speaking, that's when the Lord did a lot of his good work through pints. Yeah. Not through me, but through the guests I had and just the growth of the channel and no one saw you sitting in a couch at home, unable to walk. Yep. Hey, there's power and offering up suffering, right? So how we moved to Florida because you were suffering a great deal in Steubenville, sum up that suffering just for a couple of minutes because we've done a whole episode on it and then tell us how you're doing now.

Yeah. So, yeah, I feel like I was in denial that I was broken prior to that. Steubenville, I think, made me finally omit that I was broken and I was sick. I suffer greatly after our youngest was born with postpartum stuff. And I didn't sleep for probably a year. And I was pumping and doing feeding tubes and all that. So I just, like mentally I wasn't well, right? and then when I had the miscarriage of baby Micah and I was in the ICU and almost died,

like that's where my body really broke. And I think I like white knuckled it out of the ICU and into the hospital. And after a month in the hospital, like my body just didn't work. It was very broken, but I took it on myself to get myself healthy and back together. And I, like, I was praying for sure, and I was asking for God's grace, but I think I tried to fix myself. And I, you know, was going to pick myself up by my bootstraps and make myself well for my family. And I ran on my endurance and my strength. And then I could only do that for so long. And then when we moved to student well, I think that's where my body just broke. You know, um, yeah, it just fell

apart. And I was hospitalized multiple times for different reasons. Sometimes it's more physical things. Other times it's more GI issues. Other times, whatever. Yeah, and that was really hard. And I feel like even my friends in Steubenville, they were amazing and wonderful. It was hard to go into a community where I needed help the whole time. And I was able to help a few other people, but not as much as I like to help, right? It's always harder to be on the receiving end. And I feel like that even moving here. I feel like I haven't. Someone was asking me, like, have you met, you know, have you had good community? Like, have you gotten to know people? And I'm not, I'm not me enough. I don't have enough good days of me being me for y'all, let alone for anyone else. So when I am

feeling good, I just want to focus on my family and be good for the kids and for you. And then if I had extra, I'd share with other people, right? So, like, we took that Jordan Peterson test recently and the extroverted. Was that what it's called? Was it called extroverted or what was it called? Extroverted was one of them. Yeah, I was 99, right? And realizing that, like, I do a homeschool co-op here. And if you lined everyone up, all the moms and you were like, who's the most introverted extroverted? I think, not that they would put me on the introverted side, but I think people would think I was more quiet and I kept to myself. Because you're in pain. Because I'm in pain and I'm sick. Yeah, I wear a hat because the lights give me migraines and the funny looking glasses,

you know, just so I can get through the day. And so they don't know me. Like, none of the women there really know me. And same with the kids. Like, I have moments trying to be me, but, like, there's moments like that where I find it sad. And I'm like, okay, so my friends that have known me for a long time know that I'm very extroverted and very outgoing and I have tons of energy. But my energy level now, like, it's like a five.

for me. But compared to a normal person, maybe it's just halfway, you know? So you're like, oh, no, you seem, you seem good. Yeah. So part of why we moved was I was pretty much in remission in Europe when we lived in Europe for those seven months. And my body was doing well. And we got to student mill and it just broke completely. Within 48 hours. Within 48 hours. All my pain was back. Steroid shots you had to get. I was covered in hives. My eyes were swollen shut. I mean, it sounds so silly because you say this and people look at you in disbelief or they look to you for an explanation and you're like, no, no, that's the point. We have no idea.

If you said I walked through poison ivy and rubbed it all over my face and armpits and chest and back, I'd be like, oh, that's why I'm like, I had swollen welts. Yeah. And do you remember you were trying to hide this from me? Because I told you that if we got back and you were sick, I would throw you over my shoulder and take you to Florida. I told like three close girlfriends. And you told them not to tell me. And then this was in the first day. I think it was the second day you were getting up to go to the bathroom and I saw you hobbling.

I went, oh, this is it. And that was it. It's like, we're done. I didn't want to admit it. Okay, but are you better here or worse here? I'm better here. How so? I mean, obviously, I know, but since people are watching, less hives.

I'm not covered in hives. You're not dislocating. I'm not dislocating. I haven't been dislocating for a while. And I do think that that is... Just when you say dislocating, just so people at home know what you mean, you would kneel to receive Eucharist and your kneecap would dislocate. Yeah.

And you would have to put it back in, yeah? Yeah, and it's excruciatingly painful while it's out. And because I have this EDS, Ailer-Stanlo's syndrome, all my joints, like I'm hyper-mobile. So if I do this, you know, I just look like a freak. But all my joints do that. That doesn't hurt me, so I can do that. It's not a big deal. But my shoulders, when they do that and pop out, it's painful.

My, yeah, my hips and ankles were dislocating almost every time I stepped. So there was days in Stephen Mill that I could not walk to our next door neighbor's house. I was too sick. Everything hurt, every step. So my knees, ankles, and hips were grinding. Every step that I took, it was excruciatingly painful. So I would come down the stairs once in the morning, and I wouldn't go back upstairs till it was nighttime. And there was many days that I needed. You were the kids to help me back up

and every step was brutal. It was very, very painful. So I lived in a recliner in the living room. I became a crazy plant lady. It was a pretty cool recliner. It was an amazing recliner. Right. And that's also why I had like 50 plants because I just sat there and I'm like, I should have more plants to look at and enjoy. Yeah. Yeah. So I was much sicker there. I would have like disautonomic flares where I'd have to wear compression pants and my blood pressure would go low and unfortunately I'm dealing with that again. Today's a good day. I don't have all my compression socks. My blood pressure feels fine. But there's times where it goes really low and yeah, I get sick and dizzy, lightheaded, nauseous. And that's hard for sure. and not knowing if I'm going to have a good day or bad day. And luckily, I at least have a child with a learner's permit.

So there's been multiple times. And same with I'll get migraines. And so I like having him with me where it's like, I can't drive. I need you to drive. And then a lot of GI issues where I have to rely on medical intervention for normal body stuff that other people can do on their own. I have to rely on medical interventions. So that's hard.

But through an extremely strict diet, I think that's part of what helps with the mass cell activation. Like I don't, the hives and things like just eating beef helps me with that. If you had to, if you had to guess what it was, because I want to be very clear, it's not like everyone in Superville is sick. No. But there were a few people that we knew who had a similar story to you.

They used to go to college here They were very sick when they were here They left, they just came back They've been here for a year They've been sick ever since There was people like that If you had to guess What do you think it was?

My guess is environmental toxins And what does that mean? Pittsburgh is a steel mill town And there's things in the environment That are bad for our bodies There's pollutants, There's whatever, things in the soil, Roundup, all this stuff

all these chemicals that some people don't react to. And then there's autoimmune people like me where we're the canary and the coal mine. And that stuff affects us. Like even just, we were just at an Airbnb at the beach and that soap I started getting, my hands were breaking out. I didn't say anything. I just went to T.J. Max and bought good soap. But even that, like that cheap soap that was there.

And it's just normal soap that you buy anywhere. But there's chemicals in that that don't affect. affect other people, but for me, it affects me. Like I knew the first time I washed my hand, there was like a tingle in my hands, and then there became an itch. And I was like, oh, I need to go buy some other soap. It seems like, and I can't tell if it's just because we have a lot more information out of disposal, or if it's because there actually are a lot more people with similar health issues to you. I know several, I would say, friends who are Catholic, whose wives are in terrible pain, and no one really knows why.

And before I was married to a sick wife, I just assumed that doctors knew what sicknesses were and what to do with them. I now realize that they're often more clueless than we are, even if they're very intelligent, and so they'll whack a label over you, like fibromyalgia. And that covers a multitude of ailments, but they don't really know what it is. And that was really frustrating me for the longest time. to realize, okay, no one can, no one can help. And not only can no one help, everybody is an expert. So none of them can help and all of them are experts. Yeah, or even like pots or

IBS. Like, IBS is we don't know what's wrong. Like your intestines are so messed up. We can't figure it out. We're just going to call it IBS. Irritable bouncing. Is it irritable? Yeah. Yeah, you're irritable. That seems right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, and so you, you get all these different labels and it's like, I have more than I can count now. I don't even keep track of them, you know, because I'm like, okay, yeah, sure. This clump of symptoms falls under this label. And there's certain things, there's certain times that it's helpful. So I found a physical therapist recently who also has the same EDS as me. And so he knows things that like, like he said something the other day, like, oh, but you're like a skinny

EDS person. I was like, wait, what does that mean? He's like, either you're very overweight or you're very thin. There's no in between when you have this, um, autoimmune thing. Yeah, EDS. And I was like, I didn't know that. And he's like, yeah, for us, we don't get enough, uh, nutrition. Like, our body doesn't absorb the nutrition as it ought. And, and so I'm just learning more things. And then he's able to help treat me. And even like my intestines, like everything just like stretches too much. Like my skin's super stretchy. And then so when you, it's, what's wild is when you've kind of given up on standard medicine. Yeah.

By standard, I just mean, you know, what you think of. And then you've got to go to people that you're like, this guy might be crazy, but the proof is in the pudding. Well, and I give the most credit for me not dislocating anymore to Dr. Care. Yeah. Who's a chiropractor. Who I've been skeptical for the long, I know, I know what you're going to say. You say it. No, you go ahead.

Well, just that you feel bad calling him a chiropractor. Yeah, because he's so proficient. But, I mean, I, you know, I just have had this bias against chiropractors, and I've got good friends who I trust who are like, it's just a crack science. And maybe it is I don't care, right? All I know is when you were, and again, maybe it's not even helpful to call him a chiropractor, right? So maybe that's not even what we're about to vindicate. But when you were on your chair and you couldn't walk and then this fellow showed up across the street at our friend's house

and you were asked, yeah, you want to come over, he can work on you? it was like a miracle occurred and you could walk again, at least for a few days. Yeah. And I feel like any time, and sometimes I go to him and it's completely different things. So I've gone to him with so many. So I text him, right? I feel so bad for the text I said this poor man. Because he's the, he's, I found the most help in him than any other doctor.

Then all the specialists at Cleveland Clinic or even this recent hospital stay at Mayo. Yeah. Like I put my money on Dr. Care figuring out what's wrong with me more than all these Mayo doctors. And sometimes it's weird stuff like licorice pills, you know, or adjusting the inside of the roof of your mouth, you know, or different breathing techniques. Yeah. And it's like you could look this up and learn that it doesn't work or shouldn't work, but I don't, I just don't care if it works. Yeah. I'm grateful for that. Yeah, yeah, as long as he's not like stabbing little voodoo dolls or something like that. He actually has like certain images that you have

to look at when he's adjusting you. So it's like Madonna and child, or like, one's Our Lady of Guadalupe. And he's like, okay, stare at this image. And I was like, do people get offended by this? And he's like, no, everybody loves Our Lady Guadalupe. This guy's a solid Catholic, too, we should point out. Okay, but my question is, have you noticed an increase in women with these sorts of issues? And why is it happening? I've noticed an increase. there's guys too, but I, because whenever I give a talk on suffering or pain, there are guys that suffer, but I hear from more women because that's the majority of my ministry. Like with among the lilies, I'm geared towards women. But I think it's more women. Do you think it's more women?

I hear about friends wives all the time. I don't hear about fellas dealing with, and I'm not saying they don't. It's just in my experience, I'm hearing a lot of women. I think that our bodies are more susceptible, that word, to what's around us. And I think that's part of why I did so well when we were in Austria. Like, Europe is cleaner than us by a long shot. The food. The food, yes. No roundup. Yeah. And then Austria of Europe is that much cleaner, right? Like, they just, like the field across the street from us smells like manure multiple times a year. The grocery store you can pronounce everything on the back of the labels like it's just it's just cleaner and they're more aware i mean they are really strict with the way you recycle like there there's things

that you do in that country to make it that clean right and and i just yeah you get just you get fined if you put plastic like there's like six bins yeah and that is so offensive to american sensibilities but when the place is so clean i'm willing People aren't sick. I didn't meet, I mean, I don't speak German, so that's probably a huge part of it. But I didn't meet anyone over there struggling with random autoimmune stuff. What we found was old men and women going to saunas, going on hikes with their little hiking poles. And you and I were saying that. And their old men and women look like old men and women. Where here in the States, oftentimes old. They look younger. Women are still trying to look like a young woman. And so sometimes it's, it's deceptive. It almost makes them look older. It's okay, this is like an 80-year-old woman. She's got big boobs, big lips, bleach blonde hair. And not a single wrinkle in her face.

Yeah, there's something about that that's creepier. Like, actually, it ends up being, anyway, it doesn't matter. God bless these beautiful women. All of us have to get old. It's a difficult thing. And may the Lord bless all those people. No, but I think that there is something, not in a judgmental way, but in a, oh, this poor woman. Of course it's sad.

It's sad because I think they're trying to hold on to a youth or something. And then when they do, when they have the plastic surgery, or the Botox or whatever it is to look that young, they haven't fixed the wound and that wound just grows deeper and then they double down on it and then you you get certain women where it does like it looks grotesque like they keep going for more injections and more and then like you hurt for them, you see them and you're like oh that poor woman because that wound that they had they're trying to fill it but the wounds just getting deeper and deeper

and there's more and more layers that they're ignoring it, and it's not helping them. That's right. I agree with what you're saying. I just want to, and I know you do too, I just want to like, I don't want any woman who's maybe been through that, who's watching this right now, I feel like we're shaming him. And the reason I want them to know that that's the case is all of us are getting older. And it's, you know, life's freaking hard. And you live in a culture that's told you you have to look a certain way.

Yes. And God bless you. And I have makeup on. I have my hair highlighted, you know, like I'm not saying that you can't do anything to make yourself look nicer. I would like to age gracefully. I feel like in some ways I'll settle for aging, but aging gracefully would be better. Yeah. Yeah. I do, my heart goes out. I meet more and more women that are in like their teens or early 20s that are suffering from autoimmune issues or disautonomic issues.

What does that word mean? It's like your heart rate. So for me, it pots is one of the disautonomia things. So it's like my blood pressure goes crazy low. Like for me, my main thing's blood pressure. Other people have other things, but it's lightheaded dizziness. Seeing stars, like the starry vision, tunnel vision,

fainting, passing out, not being able to move positions from standing, sitting. So that's why at mass, most Catholics have issues when they're at mass because you're standing, sitting, kneeling, and that's what throws you off. And so there's things like taking electrolytes, upping your salt intake, wearing compression socks, like all these things that you can do to help improve these symptoms. But why do we have this? I don't think people had it.

I also think it's because of the lack of minerals and vitamins in our food. Like, I don't think when I was a kid, but when my parents were kids, Their fruits and vegetables were just straight up normal fruits and vegetables from good soil. Like it was compounded soil. Now we have fields where it's like only carrots ever get put here. Well, that soil's dead. And you're bringing in fake elements to try to make them grow. And it's like you're messing with it.

Like some of the things have been genetically modified so they don't have seeds in it because that's better or a brighter color. But it's not real food that gives your body real. nutrition, just like formula for babies. We put all sorts of crap in formula. So when we had a baby living with us, God bless the women in Steubenville, I probably had at least seven or eight different women that gave me bags of breast milk. We had a very sick two-month-old. Catholic community is finest. I know. It was amazing. We had a very sick two-year-old, two-month-old who was just not thriving. And through good breast milk, she turned a corn. and she got healthy and strong.

And their breast milk was liquid gold. There's no, we could have bought the highest, nicest formula. And it still wouldn't have been as good as what their bodies just naturally made. You know? So I think it's the same thing. And I think a lot of our food's not real food anymore. And we're trying to say, oh, but it's better, you know? And like, oh, well, this is, it's added vitamin D and K.

And there's calcium added, like cereal boxes. They tell you everything they've added in it. your body can't absorb any of it. It's all fake. Like that's the worst thing you can do. Give your kid first thing in the morning. Here's a bunch of vitamins that have been added to sugar and die. This is great for my child to have. And I'm going to take low fat milk from these cows that are very sick that have been fed all these antibiotics and all this stuff because this cow has never seen sunlight or grass. And then more nutrition's been put back into this low fat milk. And you give that to your kid, and then you have to put them on ADD medicine because they go crazy. They're just

living on sugar and die. And that's the way it's been a while. That's the way it's been for a while in America. And other countries are getting there, too. When we were in Australia, it's getting in Ireland, too. Like Ireland, when we lived in Ireland, what was that? 14 years ago, the food was all real food. Now they have fake butter, like margarine with bad oils. They have low-fat milk that has nothing in it. When we lived there, it was low fat milk. Yeah, but it was Dunigall creamery. So it was from the, and that little carton lasted, what, maybe a week? Week or two, yeah. Yeah, whereas here, you got like two months to use your milk, yeah. Yeah, thank goodness for Bobby Kennedy. Yeah, I'm excited. You're just bringing this to the consciousness

of folks. I feel validated. I feel like I've been saying this for a while. You have been saying that for a while. I remember you would say things. I'm like, oh, there goes Cameron again. and then Bobby Kennedy would say it on an episode and I'd bring it to you. You're like, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, because you would say like, it's not food. And I'm like, what does that mean? You're just criticizing this.

Oh, no, it's not. Oh, it's poit. So when you say it's poison, you mean it's poison. It's worse than just not food. You'd be better off eating this table, you know? Like, you'd be better off eating something that you're like, you shouldn't eat that because it's not food.

But rather, it's poison and chemicals and things that cause cancer. And even cancer. There's way more people with cancer now. right? Like turbo cancers. What is that? Meredith's was the turbo cancer. It's like cancer, but like really intense. She went from knowing that she had skin cancer to having a seizure and it's staged for metastatic melanoma that went to her brain. Turbo cancer. Yeah. And more people that are like us. What do you do? And what do you do if you have no money? Try to clean up as much as you can.

so like do whatever you can to clean up like get rid of half your cleaning supplies and buy baking soda and vinegar you can clean the majority of your house with baking soda and vinegar and that's cheaper add a little bit of essential oils and you could put it in it and you could buy like use a leftover spray bottle if something you already have and you can make your own cleaners you know like that's a step in the right direction like like get some castor oil and make your own shampoo or buy shampoo, like honestly, I buy it at T.J. Max, so it's not more expensive. Like, some of this stuff is a lot more expensive. But if you go to a store, like, Ollie's, good stuff, cheap, or T.J. Max, like, you can get it cheaper. You can do it in a way where you don't have to spend

top dollar. A lot of this stuff, it's like there's an analogy to what pornography is to sex. A lot of this, quote, unquote, food is to food. And that isn't to say that eating fruit loops is intrinsically evil. It's just to say that it's an imitation that's highly addictive. Yeah. And you kind of think that the American public, most of us aren't to blame because from a very young age, this stuff's being pushed on us. Yeah. And then you try to make a course correction. It's bloody difficult. Likewise, with the sexualized culture that's been foist upon us through Hollywood and television and books, you know, you come to your senses and go, all of this was poison. Yeah. And then you got a course correct. Yeah.

What are your alternatives? You either course correct as best you can or you keep ingesting the poison. And go back a couple generations. What did they do before? Like, okay, like my grandmother or my great-grandmother, they used baking grease, lard, and tallow. Get rid of all the oils. You don't need to buy any oils at the store. Save your bacon grease.

Use that. Cook with that. You know, buy a brisket. Cut the fat off. That fat you can make tallow from. The tallow you can use for face cream. You can use it. Tell people how to make it. Tell me how to make it. So you buy, like, I'll buy like a big roast and you're like, that's expensive. Yes, but look at all the things I'm going to get from this one roast. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to cut off the fat cap. That's just like all the fat. And I'm going to put it in a crock pot with water. And I'm just going to let it slow cook for a while. And you can look it up on Pinterest or online. I'll tell you exactly what to do. But that's basically it. And then the meat, slow cook that and eat off of it. You can eat off of that. Like our family could eat off of that for a week.

And so the first day, we just eat it normal. Second day, you mix it with, I don't know, make a stew. So you just eat straight up meat and baked potatoes, you know, the first night. Second night, you take some of that meat and you saute onions and carrots and you make like a stew with that meat. Okay, some of it you can shred and you can mix it. You can make your own mayonnaise. Don't buy mayonnaise. What?

Make your own. How do you do that? You get a jar. Hang on, this is, I don't want to get off track. I want to know how to make tally, but okay, how do you make mayonnaise? You've seen me make mayonnaise, yeah. I haven't seen you. I've been aware that it's in the fridge.

I don't know how you make it. Okay. I have no idea. I think it has something to do with eggs. Yes, good job. You start by having a jar, like this tall by this tall. Anything that you're emerging, immersion blender, it's like the blender that goes, and you put an egg in the bottom of it.

Okay. You put in a little bit of mustard, a little bit of lime juice. And then you start your immersion blender. and it's down low. And if you get avocado oil, that works best. You can also use olive oil, but if you use olive oil, you have to make sure it's a good one

and it doesn't have any other oils in with it. And you immersion blend, and then you slowly pour in the oil and you lift up the immersion blender. It all goes together. And by the end, it's at the top. It looks like mayo, but a little more of a yellow tint,

but it's yellow white. It all goes together quite nice. Yeah, oh, they love it. Yeah, they can make their own. Do they make it? Do they make their own? I've made it with them because there's like an art to pulling it up slowly where if you leave a kid on their own, you'll have oil and egg all over your cabinets, which isn't pretty. Okay, but then back

to the tallow. So you have this meat. You've eaten all the meat. You could do multiple things with it, right? You can shred it and put some in the freezer, have like a pasta meal one night that you get, like you go to Trader Joe's and buy pasta that's just like rice pasta. Okay. Like you don't need to have 50 ingredients on it, right? Yeah. Yeah. and you put a little bit of meat and cheese, make a whole dinner out of that. But the tallow, you come back to that. So the meat and the water, it's been cooking at a low temperature for a long period of time. And then it looks like a, it just looks like a kind of a, it kind of looks like fatty water is what it looks like, right?

But that becomes tallow. So you strain it and you let it sit. And then I always whip mine. I find it nicer. So if you let it sit, it'll almost kind of look like bacon grease in a jar. But if you take that bacon grease in a jar, put it in a mixing bowl and whip it, it gets like light and fluffy and airy. And then I often will add in some oil. So if I'm using it.

So I use it to like make sunblock. I use it to make lotions. So I add like vitamin E oil and lavender. And so the jar by the, by the, in our bathroom. Yeah. That jar is just lavender oil. You could use lavender, all different oils. You can make it smell like lemon, whatever you want to make it smell like.

So don't add the essential oils if you're using it to cook. So I leave a plain one that if you don't whip it, it lasts longer. It'll last months. I don't know exactly how long because we always end up using the whole jar before time's up. But I'll use that to cook things. And your food has more flavor anyhow. So you're not buying oil for cooking your food. You're using the tallow or you're using.

And then same with pig. It's lard when you use pig fat, right? and sometimes you can even ask like the butcher section of your local grocery store do you have fat trimmings can I buy them if they sell it to you it's normally like 195 or 295 per pound of fat

so if you don't want to buy the big thing of meat you could just buy fat and cook it Pines with Aquinas everybody we talk about everything from Protestantism to grace and reception of the Eucharist to how to make tallow yeah yeah and there's many

great uses for tallow it helps with the sun burn if you add like um if you add zinc and shay butter and beeswax you turn it into sunscreen yeah i mean you do look white i have a white tint when i go to the beach that's fair but it's less likely to give me cancer yeah i don't even know how we got on this topic i think what can we do so i have a theory and i i think it's a good theory and it's here it is as human beings we expect to be perfectly happy and we're frustrated that we're not and we are suspicious

that something is being withheld from us and that if we just change a few things whether that be diet or exercise, sleep or relationships, we can finally crack the code and enter Eden. Mm-hmm, yeah. None of this that I'm about to say

is to say that we can't make life better we clearly can and are and should but we want perfect unending beatitude now okay so in a way the crazier the suggestion the more interested we are because it's unlike anything else we've attempted here to four so when somebody comes along and says vegetables are killing you only eat meat and nothing else there's something in us that goes this is it that maybe this is it and you start to do it and you actually experience a great deal of success and rejuvenation. All right. So maybe that's one theory.

Here's the second theory. Whenever a theory like that saturates culture, it's not giving us Eden. It might be helping us and indeed is and there's a lot to say about it, but it's not giving us beatitude. No. So at that point, when we're all freaking sick and tired of another lecture about why we should be eating beef, someone bubbles up in the. algorithm and says, here's why carnivore is killing you. And we go, that's it. Green juices.

There's something only drink green juices and no longer CrossFit and there's something novel. This is, this is the thing. Whatever that thing is, let's say it's green juices, we all rush to it, congratulate ourselves for being quite enlightened, congratulate ourselves for engaging in a behavior that others don't have the courage to engage in. And then once that saturates culture, and none of us are in Eden, something else bubbles up. Yeah. That's true. And that's why you're going to see Carnival on the decline right now,

not because it's not any more beneficial than it always has been, but because it's it, like everything else, is not the answer to everything. Yeah. And I'm grateful for it, and I do think Cardivore has made my body better and stronger, but it hasn't fixed me or cured me. Like, I still, like, I long to be well and healthy. I don't know that I will ever this side of heaven be well and healthy. Yeah.

What's that like to say out loud? It's humbling. Yeah, on good days, I'm grateful for the cross. I forget which saint it is that says that sometimes you're so close to Jesus. He pulls you, he pulls you so close to him that he, that you can kiss him or that he can kiss you and it's like the crosses. Like sometimes I feel like he's so good to bring me so close to him, but the thorns. Like being close to the sacred heart hurts. Those thorns get us, right? Um, I want to tell you about some amazing coffee

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this morning. My wife and I both love it. It's mold-free, pesticide-free, shade-grown. low acid, it's organically farmed. It truly checks all the boxes. So go to 7weekscoffee.com and save 15% forever when you subscribe, plus exclusively for my listeners, use the promo code Matt for an extra 10% off your first order. That's a 25% total savings on your first order plus your free gift. Remember, your order will directly help support a network of over a thousand pro-life organizations across the US. Seven Weeks Coffee.com. on, and in my weakness, Christ is stronger, right? So like my most recent talk that I gave, I was texting Father Keegan before I was in the hospital. And I was like, you better pray

or I'm not going to be there on Monday. I'm sorry. You know, I'm in the hospital. My blood pressure is crazy low. I'm dizzy, nauseous, can barely keep my eyes open. Like, just pray. And that priest was so good. He was so beautiful. He heard our family. family's confession. So I got to go to confession right before the talk. And then he also celebrated a private mass for us and gave me the anointing of the sick. And it was so beautiful and it was so good. And like when I walked into the church, I was so weak and I barely had any strength. And I knew this talk is not going to be good by anything I can do. I literally have nothing. I put on compression socks so hopefully I could stand through it, but that's it. And then I

I think the grace of the anointing of the sick and communion. And he's so good to let me receive from the chalice because I can't receive normal hosts, you know, that the Holy Spirit just flew through me. I can't tell you anything I said that night. But the church was packed and there was so many women there. And I know that the Lord used me to bring many souls to him. Like we had, I think, five priests here in confession. The whole church was packed and you saw women getting up. and going to confession and all ages of women.

And it was beautiful. Like young, well, our girls were there. So young girls, like our girls age, but like high school age girls, 20-year-olds, all the way up to senior citizens. There was a lady there with a walker, you know? And it was just beautiful. And I know that when I have nothing and I'm completely empty, the Lord is so good to work in and through me.

And I'm so aware it's him and not me. Like I don't have the strength for that. And so that's beautiful. So when I am emptied completely of me, he is strong and it is beautiful and it is amazing. But when I feel my body so weak and I'm having a bad day, like to wake up first thing in the morning and know, oh, I'm barely going to function today. Like, God, give me the grace just to homeschool the kids. If I can just make it to noon, like if I could just get their schooling done, like that would be great. It stinks. It's hard. And I feel bad for them too, you know. Yeah, but choosing to say yes,

choosing to love the Lord in it. Yeah, and it's only by his grace. That's the beauty of it. It's not even like, oh, look at me. I'm good at offering things up. No, it's only by God's grace that he gives me the grace to turn to him and say yes and to give him whatever form of suffering it is. And for me, it's physical for other people. It could be spiritual or emotional or mental. Like, we all have crosses to carry. And I know that the saints had crosses to carry, but it seems like we're living, I am just seeing so many people carry such big crosses. Like right before this interview, someone texted me that her son was murdered, like was shot and dead, like a 19 year old. Like, I couldn't even imagine that cross, like to lose one of my children so abruptly.

Recently had another friend that had a miscarriage, you know. So many people aren't able to have children. Like they desire it. And they have all these kids stacking up in heaven. They're making souls. But they don't have a single baby they can hold in their arms. Like that's so hard when that's all you desire. Yeah.

We just live. there's a lot of suffering right now and we live in a world where everyone is so isolated and so distracted that we don't see each other's pains you know yeah yeah sorry that's just that's a lot that's really beautiful thank you for sharing that what and I know you too because it's my I think my health cross is a massive cross for you. Like, it affects our marriage a lot. And that's hard, and I'm sorry. It's okay.

We'll do that later. I feel like you're doing a better job listening and learning from the Lord than I am. But, as you say, it's all grace. And so sometimes I'll say to our good Lord, okay, well, if you would like me to learn it, you're going to have to make me learn it. Mm-hmm. And I put the pressure back on him. Yeah. I was going to ask you to talk about what it means to offer up suffering, but I don't want a theological, clever explanation. I want to know. I am not a theologian, and I am not

equipped to answer like one. But I want you to be honest about what the hell that means, because a lot of us, maybe not a lot of us, if we were blessed, actually, to be raised in a Catholic family, we may have been told to offer it up. I wasn't. Maybe you weren't either. I wasn't. I wasn't either. But those of us who were, maybe still don't even know what that really means. Again, I don't need you to be theologically accurate. What I want from you is, okay, you've dealt with great suffering for like 20 years, at least since I've known you, you've been suffering. How have you grown in quote unquote offering it up? And what does that mean? So when I was 19 years old, I remember that was the first time I heard about offering it up.

I my motto when I was little was suck it up princess like I was told that often I had to be tough I had to be strong um it's like the exact opposite yeah it is so I was raised more suck it up like there's something to be said about resilience and not whining and complaining if that's what they meant I would dislocate hindsight I have this weird disease autoimmune disease or my joints dislocate but I would dislocate and my dad was my coach often when I was little and he put my knee it back in joint and like, okay, are you good? Can you suck it up? Can you get back out there? I'm like, yes, I can suck it up. I got this. I'm going back out. And I play harder. I like double down on it. And he's like, use the pain. Use the pain. So I like, use the pain to be a better soccer player. Just so you know, I would first of all, just never let my child play sports who's dislocating and I would throw them over my shoulder. It's because I was accident prone, right? And it was, I was slide tackling people. I know. Anyway, this is not. Anyway, so I, so I, so I I lived like that, right?

And then when I got to high school, it was the same with my sports. It was get back out there, use the pain. Like, I would get angry. Like, this one girl was really good at wrestling. And she would always go for my shoulder because she knew my right shoulder she could dislocate. She learned it in one match, every match. I'd spend the whole time trying to protect that one shoulder. And as soon as she dislocated, excruciating pain, right?

And I put it back in. I'm like, get her back. And so I, like, try to channel that anger to be a better athlete. late, right? And then when I was 19, I don't know what happened. I just was really sick. And so I stopped, I randomly started vomiting. And then I started not keeping down any food. And I'm tall. I'm like five, eight and a half. I normally weigh like 128, 132 pounds in between there. I don't really change weight often, but that's where I belong. And I got down to almost 100 pounds. I was begging the doctors in Canada to tell me what's wrong, right? And some of my friends that I lived

with, my teammates, like, put their hand around my waist, and they were concerned for me. And I think it was actually Des, Sanish, that said to me was talking about, I was given an icon by a Franciscan friar the summer before. I was with Annie Devlin out on Long Island, and I was out a Youth 2000 retreat. And this Franciscan friar gave me the face of Christ. It was like this little icon. And Des started talking about the beauty of offering up our pain. And I was like, I know, I know. I need a. And I took the attitude of sucking it up. And he's like, no, no, no, you offer it up. You unite it to Christ. So like just as he's on the cross, you give yourself to him, like in the mass. And you talked about the mass and how like Christ says, this is my body given up for you.

Like we get to unite ourselves to him and give it over to him. And it was like the beauty of offering it up. And I had a good priest there who also talked about it and my other teammates. And like I don't know. I guess I, like it was the opposite of what I was doing. But I would say like just to fast forward in the last five years, you've gotten way better at it. And I think it was from when that priest said to you that you think the Lord uses you in spite of your weaknesses. Do you think that something?

So I've gotten way better at it. more recently. Do you think something shifted at that point? Yes. Yeah. I had a priest say to me, a beautiful old holy man and said, Cameron, you think the Lord uses you in spite of your weaknesses and your brokenness and your shortcomings. And I was like, yeah, isn't God so good? He's like, no. I was like, oh, no, sorry? What? And he's like, no, it is precisely because of your weaknesses and your shortcomings and your brokenness. Every cut, every pain, every bruise that you have, whether it's inflicted by you, your mother, or someone else, the Lord uses and radiates through. Like he shines through it. And his glory is seen through it. And so so often what we

want to do is like, Lord, I'll share my heart. I'll share any part, but not this bit, not this wound. So for you in the beginning of our marriage, that was pornography, right? Like, I don't want to talk about this. Like, let me give this talk where I'm all polished and put together. But to go there is really hard. You have to humble yourself and you have to be vulnerable. And with vulnerability, it's like, if you want to hurt me, this is where you hurt me. And so it's looking at those places in our hearts. And I take a long time to learn things. And I feel like the Lord has been so patient with me. And but I think I realized back when I was 19, I had really beautiful, powerful prayer experiences on the floor of a bathroom. And I just encountered the Lord.

And I just felt closer to him in suffering. So I always say, like, I'm more at home in the sorrowful mysteries than I am in the joyful or the glorious. I don't get them as much. Like, I love my life. I have a great life. Like, I'm not a sad person. I don't mean it. But, like, I relate to it more.

Like when I see the Pietta, like, I'm like, yeah, that was me with Peter. When my baby's tiny little body was broken and bruised and my heart was bleeding and in so much pain, like, I get that. You know, my body being broken and cut open when I had Liam, when they literally tied me down on the table. You know, like I, yeah, so I know that it's only grace, but I think it's not being afraid. of it like so what does it mean to offer it up we when we unite our pain and our suffering to christ how do you do that and what does that mean it's it's embrace like christ embraced the cross everyone said he was a fool to do it and it's like you idiot why would you do that like you could just bring the beam i don't know what you call it but you could just bring that little bit like

why are you embracing your whole cross like you're so foolish right but he did it he loves us. And I feel like we have moments where he invites us to be Simon of Cyrene or we're invited to be St. Veronica. And it's like we get to have compassion and go and like wipe Christ's face or we get to help him carry the cross. Like me helping him and uniting all of my pain and suffering is nothing. When you say you unite it, what are you doing? I think about someone that I want to pray for or someone that I know that's going to through a really hard time. And I say, Lord, whatever this pain and this suffering and what I'm going through now, I give to you and I ask that you give graces to them and draw them close to

you. And through that, like, we don't waste an ounce of suffering. Like, if we're in pain and we're suffering, it's the difference between reaching for the Tylenol and not wanting any pain. Like our world says no one should have pain. If you have pain, we should euthanize you. you. Like if you're getting old and you're suffering, there's no point in suffering. But we, as followers of Christ, we believe in redemptive suffering. Like sometimes people don't turn to Christ until they're on their deathbed. And when they are in pain and suffering, I don't know, you see what really matters and what doesn't matter. And it can draw you closer to Christ. I don't, I'm sorry. I know I don't have the right words. No, I don't, I think you're probably saying it fine.

and I'm just trying to get down to the crux of it. I think it's not denying it. So Jess is someone, a truly humble person, if they have a gift like Sister Isabel with her voice, and she sings, and it's amazing and beautiful, and she gives glory to God. By us thanking her for singing, she would not, and her saying,

oh, it's not a big deal, I don't have a good voice. She's not accepting the gift that the Lord's given her, but her saying, you're welcome. and continuing to serve, like, her good voice isn't for her, it's for us. Okay. And I think those that are, like, we all have suffering in our lives, but I think that our suffering is not even for us, it's for others, right? So it's, um, it's through.

Wow, that's powerful. So what's meant to isolate us can unite us? Yes. Yeah. So if we turn away and we don't let. anyone help us and we're in denial. And I think that's something that I've come to terms within the last few years, that I'm not denying that I'm in pain anymore. I feel like that's what I was doing for so long. I was white knuckling it. I concur. And I broke my body even more by thinking

that I had it all together. And I think that by, and I've seen it. Like I'm aware, I wake up in the middle of the night, so many nights, and sometimes it's excruciating pain. And I know exactly who I need to pray for. And I pray for them. And like, it's not, I don't know. Like, it's not me. Like, it's the Holy Spirit. Like, you get used to hearing, like, I don't, you could have 100 guys in the room. I could pick your voice out from anyone else because I know you.

And when oftentimes, especially as women, we listen to the enemy's voice way more than we do, the Lord's. And I listen to the enemy's voice for many, many, many years. And he is the accuser. he was telling me how horrible and disgusting and gross I was and how I could never amount to anything. And it was all these horrible things. And oftentimes we say that's the Lord. It's not. The Lord is merciful and loving. And when he speaks to me, I'm his precious little girl. He loves me and he's so patient with me. And so, like, it's weird. It's like that's where, like, suffering can be a gift.

Like, it's like, thank you. Thank you for loving me so much that you let me. experience this with you. I don't have words to make it make sense, but like it makes sense in my heart. Yeah. I had two experiences that I wonder if they're similar but different. One was when I was working in the outback as a lab technician. This is so weird.

I don't know why. I was just afraid of destroying my life and going to hell. I was really afraid. Somehow it came upon me, and I was working on my own with these different materials. There was no one who was about to walk in or anything, and I was just moved. I fell to my knees, and with the greatest sincerity, said, Jesus, do whatever you need to do to me. I give you permission to do whatever you need to do to me so that I can love you and so that I can be saved. And I just, it just came from the depths.

Second time, we were living in Ireland in Bally Buffet, and you were somewhere with you. kids and i was watching some movie it was some silly movie i wish i could find it again but it was about a family and the husband was being talked to by a friend of his you know to put some money here and you'll make some more money and it ended up being a scam and he made a ton of money and then his whole family he lost his whole family through it because it was ill gotten money eh and i don't know what it was but it broke my heart watching this man destroy his family because he wanted something that was never his and I fell to my knees and I just said Jesus

I just want to love my wife and my family do whatever you want to me and I never and I knew I didn't mean it you know like do whatever you want to me and I know that in five minutes from now something will happen and I'll be upset with it and I will take it back but even when I take it back from you I'm giving you permission not to take it back Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Oh,

absolutely. I've had that multiple times in my life as well, where I've hit like rock bottom and my body's been so broken or like my life's not mine. It's yours, you know, like do with it whatever you want, Lord. Like I don't. See, you're caloric. I'm melancholic choleric. I tend to be moved by things that break my heart.

And I wonder if we're talking about the same thing. so I have these little thought experiments that I do that help me love my life and my children and my wife more one of them and I'll share it again here is maybe in the future they'll build a time machine and you can go back to any point in history the only quirk with this time machine is the following when you're back there you will not know

that you took a time machine to be there and then I lay in my bed with my son and I read him a fairy tale when I'd you know it's kind of late and I'm tired and I'd rather be hanging out with you now because it's you know and I say that to myself I'm like maybe maybe I've come now I know I know I haven't I know this is just a thought experiment what if this is that time and and that's just a roundabout way of me saying what is the good here that I'm missing right so that's what I do with my kids to help me love them more but I remember once I did this with you and I've done it before maybe we were on a date night or

something and I had this thought you know what I'm going to say imagine if I never had the courage to pursue you and to ask you to be with me and to propose to you maybe I came up to the edge but I you know copped out or whatever and then I went my way and you went your way and you know like 15 years go by and maybe we date a couple of people here and there nothing works out and then we then we meet up again and then maybe we hit it off and then those 15 years are being wasted that break my heart and I'm so grateful to God that that didn't happen. Yeah. Another thing that happened the other day was back in Steubenville and we still haven't sold our

stupid house. So if anyone's watching, if you want a house, there's an amazing beautiful house for sale. 85, Lawson Avenue. This is weird how my brain works, right? People will think this is dark and sick and that's why I write horror stories maybe to get it out. But I was looking in this vacant house and I thought, imagine if I just destroyed my family, through my anger or greed or lust or stupidity and you and the children left like this happens you know um and i'd just be alone here i don't know it's it sounds silly maybe but something about

that makes me appreciate you and the children so much more yeah i'm just like so grateful to god for what he's given me i don't know how much of this has to do with offering it up maybe not much at all. Maybe the first couple had more to do with it, just this idea of do what you want to me. Just, I want to be yours. Yeah. And it sounds like that's kind of what you were saying when you're dealing with a great amount of suffering. Like, Jesus, I somehow, I don't understand it, but I accept it. I trust that you'll bring good out of it, even if I don't trust. And sometimes when we love, like we love so much that it hurts and then we keep loving, like that's a deeper love. It's a more sacrificial love but it's more real it's more tangible like there's um well you know what it is

you know we said earlier about these fads that come and promises eden and then don't and then something else takes its place do you agree with that assessment yes we do that with people right you come along you're the answer to all my hopes and dreams yeah you know but i can't be your god and i actually can't be god for you either yeah even if you thought and you can't get your worth for me. And what's funny is you thought that you could from me. You did. I did too. I don't know if I did. No, you totally did. Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, he did. I mean, you wouldn't have known that and I wouldn't have known that. If you had said to me when I got married to you, is she, will she fulfill you? I went absolutely not. God is alone is my savior. You're kidding? This woman who's

flawed and broken? No, of course she can't. I would have absolutely said that. I would have said the same thing about any good thing. But you think that we both thought that the other would? I don't think we thought it, I think it's just, I think it's almost like an attitude you ought to have when you get into marriage. Like, I give myself wholly to you, and I'm wooed by you as the other. And I'm impressed by you as the other. And then as marriage goes on, there's less, less wooing, but more. No, sorry, I'm using the wrong language. The point is, you can never be Eden for me. Right. And I can never be that for you, ever. But there are times where there's glimpses of it, eh? Like, I give you a glimpse and you give me a glimpse, like, oh my gosh,

like this is awesome. Like marriage is so great. I love our friendship, et cetera. Point is this, how many people in this throwaway culture go, okay, this didn't work, right? The carnival didn't work. I need another, this woman, this woman, she's younger, she's, this fella, he's got more money or whatever, you see? And then we just throw ourselves onto this new thing and we talk ourselves into it being the new eden again just like we don't use eden that language with carnivore we don't use it with people we agree theoretically we understand this person cannot satisfy me but how many of us just throw each other away going in pursuit of something somewhere and hope that it'll be it so in a way like remaining where we are in our

suffering and choosing it and in it also revealing our wounds to each other. And sometimes we can't see it, but the spouse can. What do you mean? Looking at it, like, I think, like, we've had times, like, we're both very intense people. What? And we've definitely had times where I've said, like, our wounds are rubbing up against each other. Like, it's, like, it's not that you're not seeing the best of me and I'm not seeing the best in you. It's more than that. It's like a particularly broken area of you is rubbing up against a particularly broken area of me and it hurts and it's hard and we either could be like it's not working let's turn and run or this really hurts why does this hurt so bad this is what I hear when you said this

and like going through it and then we're aware oh gosh I have this wound I need to deal with yeah see so maybe that's a good analogy to offering it up right because if I and we do it imperfectly the two of us but if we if we abide with each other even if one of us has to go on a walk or come back, right? If we abide with each other and we get through it and we remain with each other. Yeah. That's maybe what it's like with the Lord and suffering where it's like you just want to flee. You just want to abandon. Yeah. Or you say like one. Yeah, I think I think so. And it's choosing not to run. It's choosing to stay in it and it's uncomfortable. And it's like, and even there's wounds where we're like, Lord, haven't I already dealt with this? And it sure is hell not what you were

promised on your wedding day. No. Yeah. Like you knew theoretically. theoretically that suffering would come. Yeah. But theoretical suffering is very different to actual suffering. Yeah, yeah. And some people have way more than others. Yeah. And when you feel like you've had,

you've been living Lent way longer than you got to live Easter. You know, it's, it's hard, right? And then, yeah, it's, but staying in it. Like, staying in it and being like, okay, Lord, what are you trying to teach me in this? And I still, I still say yes, even knowing all the ways that we potentially have already heard each other and will continue to hurt each other, but we're staying in it and staying yes, like continually saying yes and staying in it.

And by that, I've become a better person and you've become a better person. A thousand percent. Like us 19 years into marriage is way better than us on our marriage day. How so? I agree, but how so? I think we're even more cool vulnerable and raw with each other

like I think we aren't afraid to show the wounds or the saggy bits or the stretch marks of life because we've gone through a lot of it together so we some of the wounds we both have right through trials that we've been through but I think we get

we get closer to our true ourselves, I think. Yeah. Like, it's more, like, the more pain and suffering we've gone through, the more refined as fire, the more we, like, the core of who we truly are and coming down to just, yeah, who we really are. And I think we can both see way more of who we are now. And it wasn't that we were holding back then, but.

I don't know. What would you say? About what? About that. us now that we have a greater love for each other and we're better people now than we were the day we were married and it's not that I don't think we have good people then I have no idea what to say except that we have a we have a stronger friendship maybe it's like a friendship you know you've been friends with someone for a while like you gradually learn that you can trust them

even if you say up front I trust you because we're friends like trust is built over time and through experience and you get to a point where you're like no I would trust this fella with my life. Like he would never backstab me. He would. But wouldn't you have said that about us our wedding day as well, that we trusted each other greatly? That's what I just said. I would have said that. And I would say that about a friend that maybe I've been friends with for two years. But over time, there's a seasoning that takes place. There's a strengthening that takes place that it's, it feels almost unbreakable. So I don't know if it's our friendship that makes things better. I don't know. I'm a better person, I think.

I'm a better person and I'm more aware that I'm wretched than I ever was. Yeah. And I think you're a much better person. I think you have become beautiful, more beautiful, more feminine, more soft, more receptive, more courageous. Yeah. Less of a mask. Yeah, I think that's what it is. Both of us have less of masks with each other, but I think in general as well than we did back then.

Because you can't you for a while? Like you start dating. Like, you put, you put it on. You know, fart in front of each other. I've never farted in my life. I don't what you're talking about? Like, that's just a small example, but I mean, you hide so much of your personality. There's parts of you that you hate, that you've been taught to hate.

But then you live with each other for a while, and you end up seeing all of it. And then what do you do? You get angry at yourself and your spouse because they saw it, or you can just look at it with them and ask questions about it and mature. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, but I think it's not being afraid of what's behind the mask, right, and inviting the other to see it as well. And I don't think it's, I don't even think I was aware like when we first got married that I had a mask. No, of course not. Neither was I. I thought it was great. I'm good. Praise God. I have asked my beautiful locals members if they would ask us questions. and a lot of people have i was going to get some more whiskey okay do you remember the last time i poured this tammy peterson was on the show and she wanted

some oh yeah it was wild that was great thought she just had meat she's like yeah i'll have some meat and whiskey seems like a good diet i don't know that wow anything else you want to say Before we, I mean, we can, we'll circle back to these themes, I'm sure, in the questions, but I didn't want to cut it short if you had more you wanted to. No, no, whatever, whatever you want. Yeah, I, sorry. Yes, I think that, I think that we need to get our eyes off of us and on Christ, especially as women, we need to not have our eyes on each other, like, comparison and trying to be someone else, like all the ladies out there are amazing and wonderful and beautiful, but they can't be me, like they would fail. And I can't be them.

And I think that we need to, we need to be aware of that. And we need to be aware that we can see way more women now than anyone else, anytime in history, on all forms of social media and don't, like, try not to fall into the comparison. And also looking at it. And also looking at at yourself, like not overly critiquing yourself, but, like, keeping our eyes on Christ. Like, I think it's important for all of us, but especially as women. Like, we have to. Why especially as women? Because I think that, I think that the world has taught us to critique things about ourselves. And to be a certain woman, you have to look a certain way. You have to be a certain size. You don't think the world's done that to men?

I only know it as a woman's point of view, but I feel like, like doing our hair and our makeup and our clothes and nails and all and not that there's anything wrong with any of it but I think it's easier for us to hide behind our mask because we have so much more going on than guys and I think that like like you you hear like guys don't have to be good looking like they could be funny they can be rich they could be a good provider like all these things but for women those things are a lot harder than looking good yeah maybe not the funny a bit because that's sometimes he's hard. Inbuilt, yeah. Well, I don't know. I'm just, as a woman, I feel like so often, even in Catholic

circles, like we're like, oh, unless I veil like this one, or I kneel like that one, or I go to this particular mass or whatever it is. Like, I just think we need to get our eyes off ourselves and look to Christ and the Blessed Mother. Like, our lady is the perfect. Like, if we're going to compare ourselves to any other woman, it shouldn't be that chick on TikTok. It should be our lady. Yeah, we can all agree with that. I also think that there's something dangerous with advice, and I'm even referring to this episode. You've heard me kind of try to think this through, but advice can be helpful, especially when it's general. Like if I say, don't put your hand on a hot stove. Really good advice.

You should try to follow that. But sometimes the advice gets really specific, and when it gets really specific, it can be unhelpful because you're not like that person. You have different desires, a different background. You live in a different place. You might have a different vocation. But eyes off of you and on Jesus? Yeah, all that. That's good.

That's good. But what I'm saying is this, if you and I got on here to give marriage advice to people, we'd be giving it from our perspective as to what has worked for us. And my fear is that there are certain married couples that listen and go, I can't be like Cameron. Or I can't be like mad. I don't know why you'd want to be.

but that's why I'm always increasingly reluctant to give specific advice, whether that has to do with intimacy or raising children or praying with the family or what have you. As soon as you start getting really specific, I find that what often happens is that we as married couples give advice the way we encourage people to pray those devotions that mean a lot to us. And when something means a lot to you, you're a lot more passionate about why other people should do it. But it's also the calling that the Lord's put on there. Like, it's two unique individuals that are married. So different things will work for them that doesn't work for us. And I think

that, yeah, I think you're exactly right. But I still don't think we should not say anything. 100%. No, of course not. But say it with that it could be different in your marriage and your situation. Like, St. Gianna Mola, is that the one that has the love letters with her husband? husband, that book that we have, like, they write them way different than we would write letters to each other. Like, our book would look way different. How's would be better? It would be better. I've seen our love letters again. St. Louise and Zelly and Louise? Yeah. Like, theirs would be different too. Louis, anyway. Louis, Louis. Not Louise, probably. Zelly and Louise, that's time.

No, Louis. Anyway. St. Therrez's, folks. Therese's parents, you know, the ones. Um, their marriage, looked so different than ours, but they're canonized saints together. Like, that's the beauty of it. Like, I think each of us have our own imperfections. And by God's grace, we're still called to be saints. Yeah. And I think... And we're not supposed to be lookalikes. No, we're not. We're supposed to look completely different. Yeah. So if you and I right now in the next 20 minutes kind of share how we do X, Y, or Z as a family, you might listen to that and feel guilty because you don't do it like that, but maybe you shouldn't be doing it like that. But there's enough within your marriage.

that will give you the feedback you need so that you know how to course correct, presumably, so long as the two of you were doing it in good faith and obedience to God. And I think it's good, like most our friends that I look up to that have really good, solid marriages, many of them are very different to us. And to each other.

Yes, this is true. But we're doing similar things with our families. Like we're praying together. We're trying to protect our children from having all the stuff, you know, Like we're doing many of the same things, but it's going to look very different, family to family. All right. So here we go.

A tallow Catholic wombat, not his real name, says family prayer time. Rosary or Vespers and why? I want to tell you about Hello, which is the number one downloaded prayer app in the world. It's outstanding. Hello.com slash Matt Frad. Sign up over there right now and you will get the first three months for you. free. That's like a lot of time. You can decide whether it's useful to you or not, whether it's helpful. If you don't like it, you can always quit. hallo.com slash Matt Frad. I use it. My family

uses it. It's fantastic. There are over 10,000 audio guided prayers, meditations, and music, including my lofi. Hello has been downloaded over 15 million times in 150 different countries that helps you pray, helps you meditate, helps you sleep better. It helps you build a daily routine and a habit of prayer. There's honestly so much excellent stuff on this app that it's difficult to get through it all. Just go check it out. hallo.com slash Matt Fred. The link is in the description below. It even has an entire section for kids. So if you're a parent, you could play little Bible stories to them at night. It'll help them pray. Fantastic. Halo.com slash Matt Fred. It depends on the season. We do different things in different seasons. And whenever you are

so much the spiritual head of our family. And when you were there, for prayers, everything goes much better. When you're not there, I say bare minimum and I'm just trying to get people in bed. And Hallow's been a huge help. If Hallow was around when our kids were little, I think I would have been better praying with them. But we've been through different seasons where it's been more, you know. See, this would be an example of what we were just talking about, right? So if you will look at the way I pray and think that because you're not doing it that way, you're failing. I mean, maybe you are, and you should look at that and repent of it. But no, actually, like you, you know, just this morning, you are out listening to your

little prayer app and in the sun, and our prayer looks different. Our prayer looks very different. That's okay. You're definitely more, I think the way, like you, yeah, I think yours is way more ordered. It's ordered, but it's beautiful. It's however you meet with our Lord, I mean. Yeah. My prayer yesterday involved swimming in the ocean. And it was beautiful and amazing. Good for you. Encountering the Lord. But anyway, we pray the rosary every night with our kids.

I think that's what he's asking. Chandler says, do you have any advice for an expecting father who really wants to raise his kids with a solid foundation of the Catholic faith, but also wants to be mindful not pushing it so hard that they end up resenting it as teenagers? I really appreciate any thoughts or lessons you've learned, love the show, and thanks for all you do. I was kind of afraid of that as a new parent. because that's what I had seen around me. But I don't know. I think my advice would be try to plug yourself in

to a healthy, vibrant Catholic community, even if that just means three other families with normal fellas and normal wives and normal children just trying to live their life together and are doing it with joy. You know, like a bourbon on the back porch, commuting to Holy Mass, whatever it is. And just, yeah, just you'll be totally,

and they just love your children really, really, really well. And expose them to the sacraments. So we never make our kids go to confession, but they really enjoy it. I would say we highly encourage it. I mean, there are times we drive, and I'm like, we're going to confession. Yeah, but there's also been times where they're the initiators of it. Like, we'll just be at Mass, and we'll be at a Mass where they have confession, and they go. And we do ask them, do you need to?

But they're not afraid of it, and they don't understand why people would be, because they've been raised where we go off. I also think it's important that we condescend into our children's interests and meet them there and affirm what they find delightful. Just like our Heavenly Father, condescended in Christ and encountered us in our day-to-day interests, whether that be eating fish or bread or what have you. And I think maybe very often our frustrations with our children are actually what they are, is a kind of felt condemnation on us. Like if our child isn't performing a certain way

or getting good grades, we're embarrassed. It's got everything to do with us, not about them. So one thing I've been trying to do lately is our 10-year-old is just getting into Minecraft. Now I've got two options. I can kind of poo-poo that. Or I can... And how do I do that?

I do that by maybe not like showing the... of excitement he wants me to to give him you know that's very different right to saying well there are there are appropriate times to play this you know maybe that's once on the weekend or something like that i'm not saying just free rain but the other thing is like show me i want to know what makes you delighted and i want to delight in that thing with you do you know yeah i cut my finger right before this episode and uh and he came to my door and's like hey i know you have a cut and i'm really sorry. Is there anything I could do to help you? But I really want to show you the baby chicks. All the eggs hatched. Not in Minecraft, by the way. No. In real life, we had a wren that laid, I'm not allowed to water one of my

outdoor plants. He doesn't let me near it with water because a wren decided to put a nest in it. And we've been watching this beautiful bird build a nest and then lay eggs. And every day, it was there's an egg the next day. There's two eggs. We got five eggs, five days in a row, which is pretty amazing. And then we just went out of town for a couple days and all five eggs hatch. So we have these tiny, tiny baby. And he got out the encyclopedia book and was showing me, Mom, this is what they look like now. This is what they'll look like in three days. This is what they'll look like in five days. Kiara on your birthday, they're going to look like this. And like there's so much excitement around it. And they're so, I don't know, just delighting in that with him and enjoying

it with him. And I think your Minecraft example is fine. I just like one from nature. better? I agree, but my point is that of course it's easier for you and I to condescend into interest that we find wholesome and beautiful. What's difficult for parents is to meet their children in their superficial delights or the things that kind of embarrass us. It's like, why aren't you reading Shakespeare by Candelight? You're my son. Why don't you know Latin yet? What's wrong with you? That's what I'm saying. Yeah, no, I agree. And even I have fond memories of looking back the Harry Potter stage that our oldest month through. He had to read the book first,

and then we normally did it when you were out of town because it wasn't appropriate for the other kids. So I put the other kids to bed, and him and I would watch the movie. And I swear, he would pause it like every 10 minutes. I'm like, Mom, no, it's so much better. Let me tell you what it was in the book. And he was so excited to tell me about what it was in the book.

And I'm not a huge fan of Harry Potter, but when I hear people talking about or I see it, it brings back fond memories, but it's him telling me all the things, right? that's nice that's nice yeah kyle says what are you most looking forward to um okay another question that's we're not going to do that one um matt and cameron if you okay if your spouse was a meal like main dish and size included what would they be and why if you were a meal you would be something spicy like Thai food good job what would I be oh gosh I have no idea um I'm not good at

stuff like this all right we can move on uh just say hot dog and let's be done with it an Aussie meat pie there you go perfect Charles S says how do couples learn to be silent together I don't even know what that means probably because we're not silent together No, that's not true with us all the time. I think being comfortable in each other's presence helps you be silent together. We're being silent together right now. What do you miss about Steubenville? Ask Patrick Lord.

I miss all of our friends and like really beautiful community events. like I really miss First Fridays. I miss that Shire party we had at Leonardo's. You know, there was always some adventure, some something, the Feast of St. Nicholas. Like, there was just so many people celebrating beautiful Catholic things that I'm like, I don't even know what this feast is, but we're doing this crazy thing. Like, yeah, I miss all of that. And I, the amazing Catholic co-op that I was a part of.

I miss that. Yeah. Jenny H says, have you ever had anything stolen from your house or has anyone ever broken into it? Our new house or a student house? Any house. Oh, any house, yes. Ireland. Someone broke into our house.

Tell them what happened. So we had one baby and we lived in the middle of nowhere, middle of nowhere, tiny, tiny town where everybody knows everybody and their uncle and their grandfather and everything. And we were the outsiders. And it was the middle of the night. And Liam was asleep. In our bed. 100% in our bed. It was you and him. He was just newborn. Yeah. I had a newborn baby. I had a C-section where I was cut side to side. I was yeah, not in a good place. And then I heard someone banging on our door and yelling and shouting outside our window and was he was he circling the house first i don't remember our house was pretty small and so to circle it would take like a minute it's not like a giant house that he was

circling a tiny little house and yelling and cursing and something about your god and and and bang in on the i remember the banging on the door but then he broke in so afraid yeah and he broke in and i remember you saying stay here um whatever you do do not unlock this door and you had shut the door behind you and lock it and I was so afraid of what was going to happen and you went out and confronted him and this man was much bigger than you so much bigger than me so much bigger than you he looked like a bear big old guy and I'm holding a newborn baby and I try to call 911 and I realize I don't know the number for 911 in Ireland it's wild what happens to you when you're confronted by something terrifying how you react I'll give one example

Well, then I'll say what I did with this fella. We were at a homeschool retreat, and I was walking our beautiful black Russian terrier Pushkin, or Max, through the place. And this vicious dog, who we hated and wished this family didn't bring. Yeah. I hate when people make excuses for their stupid dogs. Yeah.

All of them should be excommunicated. The dog or the owners? Both of them. Ran up and just bit my dog on the face. and my dog was like a pit bull type dog so that when their dog when their jaws lock that's it here's what I did I started punching the dog in the face repeatedly so much so that my whole fist was bloody that's probably a stupid thing to do but the dog got off eventually but it could have ripped me apart I didn't think I didn't care all right so when this fella walked in I just I just

shouted at him and I just puffed up my chest as little as it was compared to his and straight in my back. And I was just, you don't back down. And I just yelled at him and I pushed him into our kitchen. And I was looking at a brass candlestick on top of the microwave, which I knew I would have to hit him with hard enough that it wouldn't just piss him off. It would knock him out. But not so hard that I killed him preferably. But I got him out. What do you remember of that, though? I mean, I remember hearing the two of you yelling that were yelling both ways. And I think I realized who it was when this was going on. I called... Maybe we shouldn't say the role he played in the town because I don't want to put any

cuss in... Oh yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I called the priest's sister and asked for the number of the garter. Because 9-1-1 wasn't working. Right, 911 was not work in Ireland, people. And I was like, what's the number for the garter for? And I was like, someone's broken into the house. This is the situation. She's like, you don't need the garter. I'll send father over. And he's like, what's the garter going to do? I'm like, I don't know. but they surely have like guns and they're big and there's all you're going to send but the priest came and put the man in his place and took him away and our adrenaline was through the roof and the newborn baby was crying screaming but you remember the next day he came and apologize he was drunk

no it was like a week later oh was it yeah it was like a week later he was drunk off his head yeah the poor guy he was an alcoholic who had been sober for a while and then that night he fell yeah god bless him for whatever reason we became god bless him but man alive that was interesting. His anger at God got directed at us. That's right. And yeah, it was about a week later

that he came and apologized, very humbly. What a beautiful fellow for doing that. Yeah, and we forgave him. It takes guts. Yeah. Mary Ann says,

what cologne do you like to, like mad to wear? I think you'd prefer me to wear nothing. I don't like cologne. So one of the things with all my being sensitive to the, like today, we were staying in a condo and for whatever reason, they sprayed, what do you think it was?

Like, Fabrese, some air freshener in the elevator. It affects me. I can't be near it. Perfume, cologne, it's the same. So if I was to wear... I have a hard time breathing. Like, it's like my chest tightens. So I chose to walk up six flights of stairs.

It felt like six. If I, so, but you would prefer me probably to wear, like, essential oils. Sure. Yeah, you could... But I wear brute. I love brute. Yeah, if he put a spray on earlier and the day and's walked around outside, then I'm fine being around it, but I can't handle the,

you have a nice, um, natural fragrance. Yeah, there's nice, yeah, you always smell good. You've never, I don't think you've ever smelled bad. Okay. Which is very odd being a man. Most men smell really bad. Do they? Often, yeah. Like, you'll sweat and work out or be in the sauna and like, you still don't smell. Caleb, do you smell? Probably. He said, I'd like to say I don't. So most guys don't think they smell, but their women in their life would say, no, you smell. You just, yeah, you don't smell, which is a real great feature. But I'd rather, like, a nice, like, cedar, lemon grass, like, when you used to do those beard bombs, what was that the...

You're going to need a beard back for that, babe. I know, but they were nice smells and they were, like, natural. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll find something like that for you. Yeah, you could use that instead of cologne. I prefer that. Tom H. says,

My Beautiful Wife of Two Years asks, what's something Matt does that bugs you that you just had to accept is forever part of your marriage? Looking for solidarity. Lids. Matt is anti-lid. It doesn't matter what it is.

He throws away lids. He gets rid of them. Toothpaste, they never will have a lid. So I used to purposely buy the ones that would have a lid that was like attached to the cap. Water bottles. A bottle of pills. It's shocking.

It's shocking. any and all lids he throws away and gets rid of and it's just like why why do you hate lids even my mason jar lids that are reusable he'll throw them away and you throw a lot of stuff in the trash that i end up taking out like mason jars i would also tell tom's wife that she's probably not a peach to be around 24-7 as well and she should probably be more concerned about the way she annoys her husband tom than she is about the ways tom might annoy her okay what is something that I do that annoys you. Oh, for goodness sake. You don't really annoy me. You're terrific, actually. I mean that. But what are some things you do that annoy me? I would say that we're just, there are things that

we do differently, and I don't understand, and you don't understand why I do it, and I don't understand why you do it. And one of those things can be seen from an early episode in our marriage. We'd come back to our two-bedroom ghetto apartment in Houston, Texas. And I said, hey, what if we just spent like 45 minutes, let's just do a quick clean, and then we'll go wherever, you know? So for me, I think for a lot of fellas, clutter is what just destroys them. That's for me. Clutter is like white noise in my brain. Nothing works in my head if I'm in a room filled with clutter. I need it. I just, I don't even care if it's dirty. I just can't have clutter. I don't want it dirty. But you don't notice or care if it's dirty. I don't care so much if it's dirty. I don't want it to be

dirty. Like the cup that I got off that shelf over there that was full of ashes. You see that dust in the corner? Do you see that over there? Yeah. Oh, I was picking dust off these sheets. I appreciate you doing that. And you had multiple dirty, dirty cups that were, I scrubbed them all in your sink. I appreciate that. Yes, that doesn't bother me. But clutter bothers me. So anyway, so I said, let's just do a quick clean of the apartment before we go out. And I was doing what I thought was what that meant. And then I come into the spare bedroom. You were unloading boxes and doing like a deep organization of the boxes. Why are you doing that? They were already in boxes needly in the room. So I would say, you know, Patty says of James something that I would say of you. She is able to deal

with large amounts of chaos. And which is good, right, because you have to deal with me and the children and you're beautiful and you are very capable and calm through it all. Right. But when I'm in a world of chaos, I need to order it. I can't just sit in the chaos. You are able to have these beautiful personal relationships with our children amidst the wreckage. And I love that about you, actually, because I know of women who forsake a relationship

with their children for the sake of not having sticky counters. Right. And there's a virtue to having a clean, tidy house. I'm not saying there is it. But I love that you are so invested in our children. And I mean, you have to homeschool our kids, right? I love that about you, but I don't understand how you're able to live in certain levels of chaos. Yeah. And dirtiness bothers me. So cleaning, I'm all about, but the tidying, yeah. I was on the

phone with her. I was praying with her yesterday and it's like FaceTime as we pray. And she's like, you just got a text message, didn't she? And I was like, yeah, why? She's like, you make the exact same face as James. You totally changed. We were in one spot and then she, yeah, you and I are similar. You and me and her are similar. Yeah. And him and I. You know how they talk about the bell curve of different personality types? So they'll say, like, most women are like this. But obviously some women are like this, or most men are like this, but that doesn't mean... Here's what I'm getting at.

Michael Knowles was saying something about how women don't like conflict. And he says, you know, if I'm going to talk down a fella to give me a cheaper price on the car, it's my sweet Elisa, she don't want to be anywhere near there. You know, I do that. And I think that's probably true, right, for like 90% of men? No, no, no. I let you go in because you love conflict with a fella at a car place, don't you? I don't know that.

I love getting a good deal. Exactly. And I'm not afraid of conflict. I'm not afraid of it either. It just makes me feel a little bit awkward. I would absolutely do it if you didn't, but you're just really good at it. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I also use the excuse of going and talk to you. I'm like, listen, my husband's not going to be happy with this. So you've got to make it a better deal. I can't go to him with this. While you twirl your hair. You're so cool. Kieran says advice for discerning whether or where to move your family since you have done this a few times more than a few times yes we've done a lot I've just come to the point where I don't expect we'll

ever live anywhere and I'm okay with that as long as I'm with you I'm fine our family unit is our home 100% always has been always will be I'm fine with that now for the longest time is our permanent home exactly Cameron no for the longest time I fought against that right because I I don't have any memories of any other house in the house my parents currently live in. That's where I grew up. My first memories were there. So I always felt like a failure that we kept moving. I've lived in houses that I don't even have any memories of.

But I also feel like, yeah, I don't think we purposely move so many times. That wasn't our intent. But I think being missionaries, the missionary mindset is we'll go wherever the Lord takes us. We're also just kind of fancy people. we are we are we just we get excited i said this to my friend recently i said here's the problem with my wife i could go to her tomorrow and this is true if i came to you tomorrow and went hey i got a friend he lives in kenya and he's he wants he was thinking maybe we could move there and work at this orphanage and i don't know you would you would go okay maybe yeah let's pray like okay let's pray about that

I would pray about it. And then I go, that was a trick and you failed. But I didn't say yes. But I love that about you. I'm praying about it. No, but I love that. And if the Lord calls us to it, I'm open to it. No, but you are really open to anything.

It's beautiful. Yeah, I probably am. Just admit it. You would definitely do it. I would. Yeah, I probably would. You're beautiful. I mean, I would look at the...

It's taken me a while to love that about us. Okay. Just like it takes a person a while to accept their personality traits. And there's good and bad with personality traits. But, you know, maybe you, maybe you grew up and you were more. of an aggressive girl, right? And you tried to, you hated that about yourself or something like that. And then you come to reconcile yourself with it.

There are parts of our marriage, like our just spontaneity that I'm beginning to reconcile myself with. And I'm like, I'm so glad that we are the way we are. Yeah, yeah, good. Me too. I love us. We're so great. I've always liked this about us.

You do not. I'm okay. Like, I feel like, I think it's another, like we may go through a lot of manure, but in the end it smells like roses. Like God will take whatever it is we have. He'll take our little loaves and fishes and multiply it and it will be amazing and beautiful. And I think that's true.

I know people that have been discerning whether or not they should move for 10 years. And I don't... Ten years. Ten years. We've lived in how many countries in 10 years? Someone said to me that we move... What did they say?

We move the way people take vacations. They're like, you know you could just go on vacation, right? Yeah, I think the main thing is if you are discerning about moving, visit the place, make sure there's a good church, there's good community and other families. I think what the question was. I'm glad you've remembered. Yeah, but other families that you want to raise your kids with. And I think you can find them anywhere. Like, we've been blessed to have them all over the place. So I think that would be important. Zachary Heron says, question for each of you, in your past year of marriage, what's been the greatest struggle and what's been the greatest blessing? yeah so i think the greatest struggle for me would be your health and just trying to respond to that in a manful mature way right where i where i just i think what's so difficult about your condition cammy is that it's not clear and it's not

so severe like it's not like you have stage four cancer and are dying i don't want that to happen but if it were happening then i would almost have like more of a okay here's what i here's what's required of me but instead it's like i neither of us know and some days it's incredibly bad and sometimes it looks good and that's been the that's probably i'd say in our marriage being the biggest difficulty for me and my own immaturity and and and not knowing how to accept that and well maybe maybe that's been the greatest blessing can i just say this Cameron right here and now. I'm just going to claim it. I have never in our marriage loved family life more than I do right now. Do you see that? You see that I see that? I like. So I know

people talk about the importance of having like brothers, you know, yeah, it's great. Sure. All I want is to hang out with you and the kids. Yeah. I just love coming home and just being with you and the I just love them. They are so funny. You know, like they're funny and cool and interesting in a way that, like, no one can compete with anyway, so I don't even, no offense to everybody in our life. I love them all, and I'm happy to have a drink with them or go out to dinner with them, but I would much rather hang out with Avala.

Or me and Kiara go for a drive and her talk to me about what's on her mind. Or me and Peter wrestle and him just ask me crazy questions. we're just seeing Liam Frad, sorry to mention them by name, maybe I shouldn't, but like such an awesome young man, strong, good jawline, love a good jawline, funny, great sense of humor, you know, like I just love our family. So that's been the biggest blessing this year, like despite your health, I couldn't, I just couldn't ask you anything more when it comes to our family life. Yeah, yeah, I'd say the same.

Same, same too. I when we were at the beach this is our we did like a last family vacation we stayed here we stayed here we were like an hour from our house but um we wanted to purposely get away and go to the beach and have time just our family unit and um and when I was on the beach one day praying like it was right after we had just all been in the water swimming and catching waves and laughing and it just was lovely our family's crazy like we're crazy our kids are crazy like there's a lot of energy right? But we just had a good time. You had gone in. I sat down on the chair and I was just looking at the kids and they were playing with each other. And it just, it was beautiful. I was like, oh, this is so good. And then our oldest is going off to college. And, and I know our family's going to change. And our second youngest will be 13 in two weeks. And so there was a moment where we have like a the it was really really low tide so there's all these cool rocks and there's like these little ponds of water and they're collecting creatures and they're collecting shells but they're

all like the difference in size between our oldest and youngest is massive right um and so they're all hunched over like in the sand playing and in collecting shells and animals and putting all the animals into one and they just kind of look like little kids and it was this beautiful they say that you never know the last time you'll lay with your kid like the last time you'll read them you know who says that mac baron oh is that's where i got that from you say it all the times i'm like someone says this so i'll just say this because i think it's it's like my thought experiment with the time machine but less weird um you will not know when the last time it is that your son or daughter will say do you mind laying with me but there will be a last time i mean you can even when your children are very small

and they want to have a bath with you like you won't know when the last time is but there was a last time. All of this stuff is the last time. You don't know when it is. So to try to seize each one of those moments as if it might be. Yeah. Well, I felt like it was a grace and the Lord let me know this is the last time. You'll see your kids as kids. Like, obviously my youngest is still very much a kid. And my oldest, he's 17. He's still a kid. But like they were playing like little kids. Like it reminded me of when they were little at the beach. And they all were like itty-bitty. and it just was beautiful and it was just embracing

and thanking the Lord for this moment. Like, I shouldn't have had a child. Yeah, you were sick. Yeah, I was very sick and I had lots of female diseases. And the doctor that eventually did my surgery at the end said, I don't know how you took a child to term. Like, you shouldn't have been able to.

Thank you, Jesus, for Napro technology and for Creighton. Like, I'm so appreciative for good, Catholic fertility care, right? And so just watching my four little miracles out there playing, it was really beautiful, and I was so aware of it. I'm like, this is... You know, do you remember, is it Peggy Doucette? Was that her name?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, Canada. Two stories about Peggy. She came to our house with a turkey that she bought for us. She said it was buy two for some kind of price, and she thought we might want it. And back to the beginning of our conversation, we were broke and had no meat. We could never have meat.

Remember, I was like, can we have meat? Why don't we have meat? I would have a chicken breast, and it would be divided between the four of us, yeah. So she came to our house. She gave it to us. Yeah, I just thought you might want it. I was almost in tears. I was like, I am so grateful that she would do that for us.

Yeah. If someone came to our house today and brought us a turkey, I would say, what the hell is wrong with you? What do you think I have a freaking room for a turkey in my fridge? Who do you think you are? No, I'm just joking. Okay, so that's one story from Peggy, who's beautiful. Here's the second story. We were going on a drive to the movie theater with Joe and Laura.

I don't know what we were watching, but we went to a movie. And I said what I think a lot of parents of young children say, weren't you just afraid that they grow up and like, you hear so much that's so difficult? And they were like, Matt, it's the best. Your kids will be the best, and you'll see it. They're the greatest. You'll love them. And I kind of didn't believe her.

Or I thought, maybe that's true for you. But I know what I was like as a teenager. My kids won't be like that. Dude, I can proudly say, I just love our kids. Our kids lack the vulgar girth, but they have many other amazing, beautiful attributes. And I don't need them to be perfect in any kind of way I impose upon them. I just need them to be mine. Yeah, and I think it's funny because people like fear the teenagers.

And we have two teenagers. We're about to have three. Come on. And they're wonderful. They're the best. Yeah. Yeah. This reminds me when we got married on the 12th of August, 2006,

I went to a Jewish bagel shop in Houston with Mike King and Master told the fella maybe Mike told the fella that we were going to get married that day not me and Mike, me and you good and the Sheila who was sitting us down heard that I was going to get married

she looked at me when you want to take my advice run so sad bless her right the cynicism and no amount of it could be good, it can be hard, but it can be good, would have ever, even now, right, 20 years in, it'll be while you wait and see. Same thing with kids, it's like, oh, they'll be awful. No, they're pretty great. They're actually awesome. Really, really, really cool.

I think not sending them to indoctrination camps helps as well. Schools. I'm really glad we homeschooled our children. I know it's hard on you to do that. It is. But thank you. You're welcome. Because, yeah. Actually, it may have been more work to send him to school anyway. No. And my life would be way easier if we set him to school. It wouldn't be much different for me. But no, you've been so beautiful.

I'm so glad we did that. Yeah, and biggest cross would be my body. Elias says, is it just me or is a little snack, the cure to 90% of marriage problems? Works for kids too, meaning when you're hungry, you're angry. I think that's what snacks? Oh, I'm like, what snack? What is this? Elias, again, says, how often do you go on dates and what was your favorite?

Oh, here we go. What was your favorite date of all time? Oh, gosh, that's going to be a hard one. You know what? There's too much pressure. It's like when somebody says, what's your favorite movie? You're like, don't do that. Give me a genre.

One of our favorites. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so think about it. So I think as far as time goes, I think the majority of the time we've tried to do once a week. Like, that's been our go-to. And in certain seasons, we'd have babysitter's sketch. so it was every week and then other times it's it's been different but um best day ever gosh i don't know i'm going to let you go while i think about it i mean there's so many cool dates we went on right so

i went to study in rome in italy you came with me after rome we were like what if we got what if we went on a boat and went to ischia which is an island off the coast of naples no i think you wanted to go to capri and we couldn't afford capri and i was like i found this Airbnb on an island near Capri called Istia. We had never heard of the island. That turns out that there's no hope of anyone knowing English there. But it was great. We had a great time.

That was amazing. Yeah. That broken down hotel we walked through? Oh yeah? They trespassed in on Minecraft? I don't know if we trespass. We just walked there when no one else was there. Yeah, that was pretty great.

I think a couple that come to mine is when we were, in Guatemala and we used to go on dates like almost every week or every other night or whatever to that steak restaurant. It was so good. The restaurant was like half the size of the studio and it was two levels and there was not very many seats in it but it was the most delicious amazing steak and one time we took two friars of the renewal with us and we had a double weird double date. We just randomly met two Franciscan friars. That's how this happened. We didn't know they were there. Yeah. And we brought them out for a steak dinner and the joke was we bought a bottle of wine, four steak dinners, and it was still cheaper than if we had gone to like

outback here in the States. Yeah. It was so good and beautiful. So that's one of your best date nights? I think so. And then, um, and we've been on so many date nights. I mean, so many. I also think about, um, my 40th birthday. What was it? What happened? We actually don't remember what happened on your 40th birthday? Oh yeah. You, you were emceeing. We emceed a legatus event and we were at this amazing hotel. The Ritz-Colton on the beach, wasn't it? It was better than, was it the bleakers? I forget what it was, but it was better than the Ritz-Kalton.

I didn't know there was a level better than the Ritz, but Lagardis found it. And when we were checking in, the guy was like, oh, this is one of, yeah, our minivan that's full of candy wrappers and car seats. And the guy said, oh, this is one of my favorite rooms. I was like, oh, I'm sure it is, kind of giggled. And then we had walked in the room. It was the penthouse suite. There was about eight windows that we had, all of which opened.

I don't know how we got that. And there were multiple sides of the room. Did you tell them it was my birthday? I don't know what I told them, but they gave it to us. Oh, it was amazing. Here's what I remember. I was the MC. Truthly is a groundbreaking Catholic AI app built to help you know, live,

and defend the Catholic faith with clarity and confidence. Whether you're navigating a tough conversation, deepening your understanding, or looking for daily spiritual guidance, Truthly is your companion on the journey. It's like if Chat GPT went through OCIA, got baptized and made it its mission to proclaim the truth of the Catholic Church. But Truthly is more than just a Q&A tool, its formation in your pocket. Take audio courses on topics like the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Eucharist, Pergatory, and why the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ. Each course is designed to be accessible, engaging and deeply rooted in the teachings of the church. You'll also receive daily audio reflections, short, powerful meditations to help you grow in prayer and stay grounded in your spiritual life.

Already downloaded by thousands of people worldwide, Truthly is transforming the way we learn, share and live our faith. One question, one course and one prayer at a time. Start your seven-day free trial today. Download Truthly on the app store. And the Lord did not make Matt Frad to be an MP. He made Matt Frad to do many things. MC is not one of them, right? At one point, I said to you, would you just,

why don't you just give up and do the next introduction? And you went up and you absolutely killed. You crushed it. You were hilarious. Someone comes up to me after. One of these like, you know, rich, confident fellas. He's like, you, and he pointed at you, you're hilarious. He looked at me. You, you're not that funny. She's terrific.

I went, I know. And then, but it got better because Because the morning of my birthday, friends of ours... No, it wasn't our birthday. It was my birthday. No, it wasn't. Yes, it was. No, it wasn't.

It was our wedding anniversary. No, it was my birthday. No, it wasn't. It was our wedding anniversary, I think. Okay, no, because... Maybe it was your birthday. I'm so sorry. Yeah, no, it was my birthday.

Because friends of ours, the Myers, had a priest... I'm so sorry. That offered... How many times in my life have... I thought I was right and was wrong. This is, I was so certain. You know why I thought it was our wedding anniversary? Because didn't I get you a wedding ring?

You did. You got me this ring. That's why I thought it was our wedding album. Okay, so what you were exactly right, it was your birthday. It was. And how did I give you that ring? I didn't even remember. You gave it to me there when we were there. Now we should tell people why I had to give that to you just in case they were wondering. I feel like it has to be explained.

It's weird. Why would I give you a... I was big fat pregnant and I took my... engagement ring and wedding band were soldered together and I took it off and instead of being smart and putting it on a chain I put it on a wicker piece of furniture in our house in Ireland and our whole backyard was like bog land and then rocks and we had a toddler and I think he got a hold of the ring okay and I lost that's what happened I have another memory from that house wait but I didn't finish my story I'm so sorry I'm so sorry keep going so Matt got me this beautiful ring to replace my

other one because I just got like a cheap cubic circonean that I'd always wore because we had no money and I'm like don't worry about buying me another ring I lost it I'm sorry but I just wore a cheap one. Anywho the Myers had a priest friend that offered to celebrate mass and like what if we come up to your hotel room and have mass and he said it was from Massachusetts and I said I was born in Massachusetts and he's like where were you born I was like Waymouth it's a little town like near Plymouth and he started laughing he's like I'm from Weymouth it was a priest from the town where I was born that celebrated mass for you,

me, and the Myers and our hotel room on my birthday. Someone else was there. And he offered up mass for my parents. Wasn't Andrew Swofford and Sarah there as well? Oh, the Swaffords may have come too. Someone else was there. Well, it could have been the Swaffords too.

It was like a very odd triple date on my birthday. It was lovely. That's beautiful. Yeah. Because you know, you get married, you remember everything. Remember last year?

Yeah, of course I remember last year. I was there. We'd been married almost 20 years. There's many things I don't remember. I don't remember that story. You know, they say that when one of us will, you know, when you get married and you live together for a while, when one of you dies, you lose like half your memories. Isn't that sad? If you were to die first, we lose like three-fourths of our memories.

You have a much better memory than me. I love that you said three-fourths, not three-quarters. That's great. I like that. So many great dates. Oh, another favorite date. us, the Horns, and yes, Chester and Elisa. Yes.

We were in our mini, mini band. Before we get to that, Trent Horns' first debate on atheism. At the University of San Diego, we brought our beautiful friends, Chester and Elisa, who I just, I need to have them here. I love them so much. They came, we came, they filmed this debate, it was fantastic. But the best is we all got an art. Did we not drive there in our car? No, no, we did not, because I flew in from a talk I was giving and took a taxi because Uber's weren't a thing.

To there, then we all went out for drinks. Yeah, we were in the front row, and Laura was so in love looking at her husband, ripping the other guy apart. I was so in love with Trent. And Trent was like this little baby wearing a suit, you know? Like, he just looks, they had just gotten married. They were newlyweds. Talk about when you first met Trent and what that was like, and when you met, when you first met Laura Horn and what that was like. Okay, but my favorite part.

of that date was when we all piled in to our mini-mini van. You said that like three times. I know, but where did we go? What did we do? We went to get a drink somewhere at a Mexican restaurant. But we were blaring music and it was just so much fun. There's a photo of it, which is why I think you remember it. Yeah, we were stuffed in.

But we were singing old songs that were like high school days or whatever. We were pumped, I think, as Trent did such a good job. It was a beautiful time. I have some lovely memories from San Diego. Yeah, it was lovely. Do you remember that time when you, me, Chester and Alysa, God, I need them here. Make that happen. I need them here.

We went to that theme park in San Diego. Remember we were on a rollercoast together? After a date, no, we had a great date, no, double date. Yes. I could go on a roller coaster? Maybe you didn't, but me and Chester did. Nice. Maybe I could back then.

Now I'd be sick forever. You know, Chest of the molester. Matthew. That's not what we called him. Don't say that about him. That was a great date night. That was a great date night. Or when we first met Laura, it was New Year's Eve.

No, no, before we get to Laura, you meet Trent. What's your experience of Trent? You meet Laura. What's your experience of Laura? Go. Okay. So the first time I met Trent, I think he came to our house. Yeah?

I don't know. I think he came to our house and he's a very bright, intelligent guy. He was friends with you. I was happy to talk to him. We were out back, hanging out on our porch, having conversation. It was lovely. And then you left for some reason. I don't know if you were just having an introverted moment or if you had to go to the

bathroom. But he keeps talking to me. And I remember to just be like, oh, my goodness. Like, I don't know if this baby, like, sucked all my brain cells out of my head when I was breastfeeding. And I just looked at him. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I don't think I'm smart enough to be in this conversation. I don't understand anything.

I just need to leave. And I just walked away. And that was my- Fair enough. I wouldn't say what you said to me. Wait, what did I say to you? No, I don't know if you want me to say it. No, say it.

That's my first memory. Do you really want me to say it? Yes, please. Yeah, Trent knows I love him. He can handle it. Go. You said that you didn't want to breastfeed around Trent because he seemed weird. That's what you said. Are you glad that I said that publicly? Yeah, I'm fine with you saying that. That could be something that I say. But here's the next thing. It's because he's like super smart and you just didn't understand him.

Yeah. And he's just really young too. But then you met Laura and you said, now I get Trent. Now I can breastfeed. Hey, Trent, come here so I can breastfeed around you. You didn't say that. But Trent, I've said this. Laura makes Trent comprehensible in the way that the church makes Christ comprehensible. It's like you need it. Yeah. Yeah.

And the first time we met her. Are you glad that I said that publicly? Because you pushed me to say it. I don't mind that you said it publicly. Okay. And then, yeah, I don't mind. I forgot that I said that. But I'll tell a story and then Trent won't mind.

So the first time we met them, you opened the door. And Laura Horan said, oh my goodness, Matt Fraud, I'm so happy to meet you. I'm going to pee my pants. Yeah, she said, oh my God, Matt Frad, so excited, I'm going to pee my pants. Yes. I had never met this one in my life. And I did not know what to think. And it was beautiful and amazing.

And it was New Year's Eve and we were painting our house. And they helped us paint our house. And they were engaged. That was before they were married. Trent and Laura. Oh, my gosh. I love them so much. You know what's funny is like when you go through something difficult together, how it bonds

you maybe that's back to the suffering question when you unite your sufferings with christ we don't have to get into this but there was a there was a woman who came to our house who ended up being obsessed with me a little crazy a little she was struggling with some things do you remember oh i can't forget that you you me and her were sitting together and she was talking to me about you as if you weren't there she thinks this and i'm like don't she's right here talk to her we had to kick this is this okay

that we're talking about this publicly? I think so as long as you don't say the person's name I think it's fine we had to kick this person out of our house

do you know how weird that is well we actually we had an individual so let me just there was an individual but we involved the Evans too the Evans took our kids

we need to just back up there was an individual and we blessed this person we're not going to say this person's name as a woman who came to stay with us she was in a similar line of work to myself

and I knew her somewhat, so I invited her over. It wasn't good. No. It was terrible. And she was with us for maybe three nights. Do you know how bad things have to get for you to have to look someone in the eye and say, I don't care where you go. Get out of our house.

But here's the thing. I don't even think she had a return ticket because she didn't tell us how long she was staying. And I think that was part of it that came up too. And it was like, wait, what's your plan? Where are you going after this? And it was a weird, like you were at work all day. And I think she was upset that she couldn't hang out with you. And so it was just me and the kids.

And it's like, well, what are we doing today? And it was like I needed to like perform for her. And I'm like, we're going to go for a walk. We're going to anyhow. I have not thought of this memory in about four and a half years. I can't believe it's coming up now. But I remember, do you remember, I had to look at her in the eye. And how did it happen?

How did we decide you need to tell her to go? So I went out with two of my girlfriend. We, things were weird and it was like, you, I shouldn't be alone with her. So Laura and Elizabeth and I. What happened was you, me, Trent and Laura went to Elizabeth and Tim's house. But this was right after she had that, she was talking about you like I wasn't there to me. But we also had a really weird encounter where we were walking. Yeah, we were doing stuff together.

So the other women were like, this is weird. This is weird. But then we all went to Tim and Elizabeth's and that's someone we decided this is not healthy. She's got to go. Well, Trent was the one that said you can't raise, you can't raise. can't reason with crazy you've got to kick her out yeah yeah and he's exactly right so i remember the next day i we invited laura and and oh my gosh it was so weird it was it was very laura and trent came over and i sat her down was he there i wanted another man in the room

you couldn't be there right because you were going to punch that woman we tried we tried to do it all of us and i think it was trent that said cameron you need to leave so i went to a neighbor's house and then me and me and her i had to say you you need to leave and I think she nearly cried and I'm like I don't care where you go and it's none of my concern but you're not staying here things were just it was very weird and awkward so we got in the car could you imagine doing that to another human being and a woman we didn't we didn't have a choice it was I know we didn't have a weird situation yeah but it's a weird thing I never thought I'd be in that position so I got her in the car with Trent I did never want to

be alone with this woman and I drove her I don't know where I drove her it was like a hotel or a or something. I don't know. Okay, bye. And she got the, she got the bag out of the trunk and the door slammed and me and trim like, oh, glory to God, let's go. We drove home and the feeling of relief. Yeah. But no, but I mean, say a word about why that was necessary. It wasn't like this random. There's so much details relieving out, but it was just, it was a very stressful situation. And it was honestly more stressful. than the drunk guy that broke into our house in Ireland. I disagree, but keep going.

You disagree? It was more stressful. Well, I had to confront him. You didn't. Keep going. But you had to confront her as well. That's true. Anyhow, it was a very messed up situation.

Keep going. That's true. She's smaller than you. It was just a really weird... I don't want to brag, but I could have kicked her ass. It was a very odd situation, and it was like this kind of weird emergency thing. And a bunch of our friends had to help us out. And we all came together.

You went to Megan's house, remember? I did, yeah. You, Megan, Laura, Elizabeth Shortham. And me and Trent just dropped her off and drove home. Yeah, it was like a... And then I blocked her number. It was a very weird, odd situation. And then I saw her at a conference.

She came up to me and I did not... I think I texted you, like, I don't know what to do. She's here. I don't know what's going to happen. And she came up and just pretend like nothing had happened. God bless her. Beautiful. You know, bless her.

We all go for stuff. And I think I told you, find someone there. Let them know what's going on and just don't be alone. Yeah, just odd, odd situation. I didn't know. But we were that much closer after, which was amazing. Because I remember what happened. We played that board game that night.

Trent and Laura came over. We were playing a game and then we were joking. And I think Laura said, imagine if we started looking at the photos around the house and Cameron's head had been cut out and her face interposed. Yep. And same with the window. What if she was standing there and she's dripping wet?

But it's not raining outside. Someone said that. I don't know. It was very long. conversations. Okay, but then to redeem Trent, or to redeem what I said about Trent. He was the champ. He helped us. But I have another story about him. So I was traveling cross-country. We were flying to Australia. Our youngest was probably two. Our oldest was nine. I was flying by myself with all four kids. And they, like, we had already had two flights. We're on our third flight. And this one's

going to San Diego. I think it's like Arizona to San Diego. And I just was done. and I just needed help. And it was like a, come Holy Spirit, help me out. And it was one of these planes, I think it was Southwest, where you can sit wherever you want. And I get on and I hear, oh, Cameron, I was like, oh, Trent, hi, how are you? Yeah, totally random. He was on the plane and he's like, how are you doing? I'm like, oh, my goodness, Trent, I need help.

Can some of my kids sit by you? He's like, sure. So it was so good. Two of the kids sat by them. Two were by me. And I just took a deep breath. And I was like, oh, I can make it. through this plane trip. Trent did not get any work done, but he was wonderful and was my saving

grace, that last leg of the flight. Yeah, he's an amazing guy. Don't tell that to him, but he's pretty great. He's a really good husband and an incredibly attentive father. He just is so in love with his children. I love that guy. It's funny, this is what we were talking about earlier, about how friendship grows over time. Like, Trent is such a close friend that if he recorded a video just slamming me, I would still love him and I wouldn't retaliate. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, and whoever attacks him.

They're wrong. Well, maybe they're not wrong, but. But there's nothing they could say about him that would change the way that you feel about him. If anyone attacks Laura or Trent unjustly, like, they're kind of my enemy now. Yeah, that's fair. Because I care for them. Yeah, you do anything for them. Yeah.

And that doesn't happen overnight. Yeah. That happens over years. Yeah. It takes a while to trust people. And even if either of them, ever messed up and did something horrible they still would be my friend still kill their enemies with them and bury their body with them on Minecraft okay next question matt and cameron is your

spouse oh we've done that question what are some of the tools you to employ in your marriage to keep it strong regular family prayer date night love language quiz things to prompt conversation etc yes figure it out it's fine i think that we're very good about um doing things together as a family yeah as both as a family but as individuals too and knowing when we need to step away like we like to go for walks together we do that a lot you know and just i find and sometimes i find it easier to go for a walk and have a conversation than to sit a hundred percent face to face yeah well why is that i'll tell you why it is if you and i need to have a difficult conversation it's a lot easier if we're looking in the same direction and moving our bodies

than if we're awkwardly sitting silently hoping the kids don't interrupt us trying to go one on one. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I'd highly recommend that if you need to have a conversation with your spouse, just go on a walk. Yeah.

Yeah, I really enjoy our walks. And then I used to really enjoy our wine and cheese date nights. Yeah. Like sitting down having a glass and wine. Like a sad thing is being you can't eat or you can only have steak, but you can't have steak after five. Like we used to drink together.

We used to do things like that together, which we can't do anymore. So I'm just drinking with Tammy Peterson. While you and Jordan sit in the corner. Way too close to each other. Way too close to each other. But it's the only place you can see without the cameras. And the worst is your guys come in and whisper in my ear, your legs are in the shot. So at one point, I had to move my legs.

My legs were over here and had to move them and put them up against Jordan. So I'm like, poor Jordan. That is amazing. For no apparent reason, I'm like snuggling him. It was amazing about that conversation is she was very open about her relationship with Jordan and she says their best friends, obviously, and I believe her and the sorts of things. And what a man to be able to sit there and not interject, not interrupt, be completely fine with his wife speaking so openly about him.

Yeah. They're beautiful. I would love a real date night with them where we all four talked. I mean, you and Tammy kind of took the majority of the talking, but. Yeah, that's true. but it was nice. I mean, we had our little interview, and then the four of us just sat around here for about half hour, just talking about all sorts of things. It was lovely. Yeah. Yeah, you can tell when someone loves their spouse, like when someone like thoroughly enjoys them and delights in them.

And it's freeing, right? It gives you permission when they're comfortable in who they are and you're comfortable and who you, I don't know, there's something freeing about it. You don't feel like you have to try to pretend to be someone else. And that's what I said to Tammy, I think up front, like they've been very open about their relationship, about their struggles. And that's got to be difficult on the internet, because if the internet has to choose between sympathy and mockery, it will always choose the latter. Yeah. And yet they seem intent on being kind of honest. So I really love the two of them. Yeah. Jacinta says, and I agree with this question, how is she doing health-wise and how does she stay so positive in spite of her setbacks?

You are a very positive woman. Sometimes I wish you weren't. I'm like, just admit you're doing terrible. Just do it. Look at me in the eyeballs. And you're like, okay, fine, I'm not doing well. That's all I need to know. Now I can deal with that.

But if you say to me, I'm fine, I'm fine. I remember one time when I was really, really sick and I was doing one of those questionnaires for like a new doctor's office, it's like, I don't know, the higher your score, like the worst. Anyhow, I had like a crazy high score, but as far as like how I felt about myself, it was really good. And my outlook on life was great. Like I wasn't depressed. He's like, this, you should, like, it's okay if you're depressed. I'm like, no, I'm really, I'm good. Like I, like all of this stinks and it's hard, but I'm not, I've all, I think it's part of my personality that I'm the glass half full. But I think choosing, I don't know, I don't know why.

by God's grace, I do think that I'm able to stay positive. I don't, but if anything, I sometimes focus on the half full and I'll deny some of the negativity or some of the, I don't know. Ishaverabia says do you prefer mustache mat or clean-shaven mat? Clean-shaven, it's my favorite by far. And then he says, what is your favorite thing about Matt? I like that question. That's great. Big fan of that question. Is it too cheesy if I say your heart? No. Okay.

I love your heart. I love, you have such a big, beautiful heart, and you're always aware of where it is and what's going on in it. And it's complicated, but it's really beautiful. And, um, yeah. And I love the way you love me. Like, you love me very well. Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah. I hope so. Yeah. Thank you. I never, yeah, I would never question your love for me. Like if someone told me that you were talking bad about me behind my back, I'd be like, there's no way. He loves me.

Like, or that you found some other girl that much more attracted than me. Sure, there are definitely girls more attractive than me. Like, but it, like in my mind, I am the most, and I think it's true in your mind, but I'm the most beautiful person in the world to you. And I love that. Like, I love that I feel very secure in our marriage. And, um...

You're like the Latin Mass, and every other woman is like the Novice Ordo. And they are beautiful in as much as they approximate the Latin Mass. The closer they look like you, I'm like, oh, she's pretty. But they're only pretty because they look like you. That's how I feel. Oh, thank you. I, yeah. I feel seen and loved by you.

How weird was that Catholic analogy? That was very weird. And because we don't go to the Latin Mass, I feel like it's even more odd. Like, we go to a Nova Sorto. But it's trying to approximate it. Yeah, no, I think, like, early on, before we were married, I remember that song that you wrote about me. Yeah, yeah.

I don't have to say what it is. But that, like, I feel like you see into the depths of me and love me and, like, love, yeah, you love me very well. That's what I love for the most of you. Which I feel selfish and saying. I want to get better at loving you. I do think that you love me very well. I want to get much better.

I would love to be just an expert at loving you because you're really great. Anyway, I don't mean to be gay about it. No, this is very heterosexual. I see. Yeah, because I'm your wife. Yeah, you're my wife. It's like the exact opposite of being gay.

If I was talking this way about Trent. Yes, that would be gay. There's not gay. Matt, I've already asked that question. There's a lot of beautiful questions. How does this old, conclave hunger game sit with you? Gregory

the 10th also, I have no idea I'm going to bypass that. What was the most regrettable anxiety-inducing or memorable dates you ever went on prior to this Q&A date? Very good. Have we ever had a just awful date?

Oh, I'm sure. Sure we have. Yeah. But I don't remember. isn't it beautiful that there is so many dates we've been on that we don't remember isn't that wild i would love to watch a movie of a date that we went on that we've forgotten about that would be fun i would love that yeah i think it probably would have been early marriage but I'm not thinking of a specific date,

but I think what it would have been is you having very high expectations and me feeling like I didn't meet them. Oh, really? I'm sorry. And I feel like I was letting you down on the date. But I can't think of a specific one, but that's what I think the most anxiety-producing date would have been. Yeah, I don't remember.

What is date? What is it? day. I just want to, I love spending time with you. I just love hanging out with you. Go in a good coffee shop. Can I tell you one of my favorite dates was this and we'll just get a little personal. You and I were in Lizzie as you do and we went out. We were having a good time and we came back to the hotel room and you know we were going to do what husbands and wives do but you were really sick. So instead we played Sega games on the switch and I thought to myself 10 year old Matt Frad would be thrilled to know that he would one day marry a woman that would be as

into Sonic the Hedgehog as he was. That was a good day, night. Thank you for that. Anna Filomena says, I deal with an autoimmune disease, IBD, though I hate to call it autoimmune since they're not even sure what causes it.

Anyway, I've thought about carnivore, but I've heard it's hard on the liver and kidneys since your brain runs on only sugar, and not fat, unlike the other organs, which causes your liver to have to convert a sugar to protein. My question is, Cameron, have you noticed the diet having negative effects such as this? I'm so happy it's helped you, and I'm wondering if doctors in general don't know how our bodies really do function on this diet. Yeah, so irritable bowel disease is similar. Someone's mentioned that maybe I have that as well, so I relate to that.

And with it, I honestly don't know. I think my, when I went, when I had my miscarriage and I was in the ICU and I went septic, I feel like someone turned the switch off on my GI track completely. And so I wouldn't be the best one to ask this. But in the beginning of Carnivore, when I first started, my GI stuff got better. And I wasn't struggling as bad with the constipation stuff. and I found the higher fat that I did, the better I did. But now that I'm so long into it and I have other complications and things,

so I don't know that I'm the best one to ask now. But I wouldn't be afraid of starting it because I was doing, like what I was doing so much fiber because they're like more fiber, more fiber, all my GI doctors, you know. So I was doing a lot of nuts and seeds. And I had already done like the Dr. Grundy, like cutting out. lectins and night shades and all of that. And I do think I got better, but cutting out nuts and seeds, I got a lot better. So, and getting down to zero, like, I don't know why it works. I don't understand it, but my GI track did much better. So I wouldn't be afraid of carnivore. Try it.

Do it for a month and see how your body does. But my body did not do worse on it for GI stuff. it did much better. And what I noticed was it almost gave my GI track a break, which was lovely, and it gave it time off. And I wasn't always, I was always bloated. And, you know, if I ate something wrong, I'd look like I was nine months pregnant. And the amount of pain and gas and, yeah, so I'd say try it. Yeah, I mean, I, for about 10 months now, have been doing highly meat-based diet. Now I'll have some nuts or I'll have some plantain chips. But I feel great. And I was having dinner the other day and stupid me with a bunch of fellas who went to a steak restaurant. And I had a big steak. But I don't have potatoes. I don't have sides. I don't have greens.

I have nothing. Just steak. And what was interesting is on the way home, people were talking about how full they are. Like, oh, I'm so full. But they were having potatoes and greens. I just had steak. I feel great. I've never had. Sometimes I'll have two steaks. because I'm starving or all have like three burger patties. Yeah, and you don't have the stomach pain. I don't feel bloated at all. Yeah, my only thing is by eating. I've never felt bloated and I've never had heartburn, ever while eating just meat.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's worth a try. I, the only times I have is because I think I was eating out and there was some other, there was a cross-contamination and I have horrible effects to cross-contamination. But no, I think you should definitely try it with IBD for sure. Amy Marquis says, is there anyone, podcaster or YouTuber, you would recommend a young woman to fight their health and find encouragement, I think she means fight their sickness, while dealing with chronic pain health issues. Is there any good YouTubers or you maybe?

I don't know. I'm sorry. I've done some episodes. So among the lilies, I've done some episodes. My friend Caroline McNamara struggles with similar things. And we've done a handful of episodes together. there. I need to be doing more. I will try to do more. Yeah. I want to interview more people and get into it more. Autoimmune is so specific to the individual person, but I think it's good

just to know you're not alone and not to take your identity in your disease because I think a lot of people do that and not to throw yourself a pity party, but do what you can to clean things up. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And yeah, persevering. Yeah. When did you realize asks Ish of Arabia that Matt was the one? That is a great question. You don't have to. We've talked about this.

I know. Do you want me to get into the whole story? Not really. I'm kind of bored of the story. We were, I knew that he was one of my best friends, and I really, really liked him. And there's a great quote, love his friendship caught on fire. And I have been praying that prior to meeting Matt, or no, meeting you. You lent me a book.

And I started praying that. And then we had a really, really beautiful. beautiful moment in Australia with your bishop. And I very much experience love his friendship caught on fire. And I knew in that moment, I think it was the Holy Spirit that this is the man I'm going to marry. And I want to have his children. I want to spend the rest of my life with them. And it was amazing and wonderful. And I'm so glad that we're doing it. All right. That'll do for the questions. Let's see. A final question might be you can have any day you want, anywhere you want. with whoever you want.

What are you going to do? So let's just assume you have the best night's sleep you've ever had. You wake up tomorrow you can be anywhere with anyone doing anything and I don't want you to say

what you think you should say I want you just to say what you would want. What would you want to do tomorrow? I'll tell you if you don't know. You tell me first and then I'll tell you what I'm thinking. tomorrow morning you wake up in ischia with patty and your lovely girlfriends and you spend the whole day

just drinking coffee and praying and swimming and laughing that'd be a lovely day yeah so my day would start um with just you going on a walk just you and me having us time and then us having family time at a beach sure we could be an ishtia why not let's do it and then that evening a handful of our closest friends and enjoying each other but my soul sisters are amazing and beautiful so maybe I have lunch with them this is nice this is anything we want right

so the husbands can come we can all be there yes oh I would love that that would be so wonderful and lovely yeah yeah so I would want time just you and me time with our family unit and then time with those soul sister friends and by that I don't just mean the Canadians

I also mean like Laura and yeah, Elisa, yeah, having that, like, oh, so good. Yeah, but I think it would turn into, like, your 40th where your 40th was so great, but there was too many amazing, beautiful people from different parts in our lives. I also physically wasn't well, so I found it really hard to move from one spot on a table to another, but that's okay. But it was so good and so beautiful, but I couldn't enjoy it, and there was too many of them, and then they didn't know each other.

So, like, if it was just, like, I would have wished that we could have spread them out and had just really beautiful, more intimate, deeper moments with just different couples at different times. If I could have any day, tomorrow, right? Because, you know, like, just tomorrow, I would love, just maybe because we've already brought them up, you, me, Chester and Lisa, to wake up somewhere, somewhere foreign and just, you just, you. just hang out for the entire day. Nice. To talk.

Yeah. To pray and to worship and to drink whiskey. Yeah. That sounds great. Yeah. I also think of many times that we've already had that have been like that could be the greatest day of my life. Which one?

So many days. Like yesterday at the beach with the kids. Like it was a wonderful day. Like it was just so good. Right? Or when we were in Europe. Like any day that we were in Gombing or when we got to travel and like when we were in Romania, those lovely people that had us or Budapest and walking around and seeing and experiencing things with the kids,

Assisi, like any one of those days that we had there are amazing and beautiful and like hiking up doing what the trail St. Francis would have done up with the kids. Like, yeah, we are so blessed and I realize that. Like, I know that many people don't have as good of a life as we have. And I am so, um, grateful for it. Yeah, but I, I also have just as many fond memories from the early years when we were poor. So like, I don't think it's, I don't think it's about money or travel. It's about, I don't know, what is it about? Communion.

Communion, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this has been a great date night. I've enjoyed this. Do you remember I took you out for your 30th? To that, I think it was a pub in Canada. Oh, yeah. I blindfolded you.

See, we had no money, right? So anything I did would have been impressive. Oh, yeah. I blindfolded you. You didn't know where we were going, and I kind of drove you around, and you're so smart, you probably figured it out. But we ended up at that restaurant with all of our friends.

Yeah, that was an amazing night. What was my, oh, my 30th? Jimmy Akin's T-shirts, superheroes. So my 30th birthday was our friend's house. We had a bunch of people over. Alisa and Chester made cappuccinos. Trent and Laura were there. My best friend from Australia was there.

And Jimmy Aiken brought over about maybe 30 to 40 superhero shirts so that we got to wear them. I wore one with a belt and it was a dress. It was for when he was a larger man. Yeah. Yeah, he's lost a lot of weight. but yeah we all had such a good time that was oh that was my 30th oh it was so fun what a gift yeah it was a great night I don't know who said that um when your memories exceed your hopes that you're one foot in the grave or something like that does that make sense hmm like you get to an age where

you spend most of your time reflecting upon what was no I still have a lot more no me too 100% I can't wait. But I think that's an interesting point. I think it's true too. If you get to a point and you no longer looking forward to anything, you're only reflecting on the good old days. What are you looking forward to? So many things. I'm excited for... What's that? Give me exactly four things you're looking forward to.

I'm excited for... Just to see where our kids end up. I'm excited for our oldest right now. How you're going to be such a beautiful grandma. I can't wait till they get married and have babies. Yes, I really, really look forward to having grandbabies. That'll be so lovely, so wonderful. Yeah. And seeing my kids, like, just, like, they're awesome, amazing people now,

and I know they're going to be even more amazing when they're grown up, you know? Like, you can already see glimpses of it in them now, and I look forward to seeing who they'll become, and then who they end up with. All right, so that's one. it's like a religious order or seeing where they end up maybe seeing who they end up with i agree with that that's huge yeah yeah because my son's wife or my daughter's husband their enemies are now my enemies i can't wait to build the frad kingdom yeah good all right two more grandchildren no that's oh is that part of it no fair enough yeah okay so what our kids will become who they'll end up with

and then their children all right what else you're looking forward to i can't have to do with that kids you've already done three with that kids you can do with that kids I'm sorry what life looks like when none of the kids are home anymore like our life just the two of us like what are we gonna do I'm gonna be homeschooling you every day till noon

I'm gonna get you to do reading and math and yeah you know sometimes parents talk about or husbands and wives talk about what it's like when their children leave the home and what's left of their relationship. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, we're not going to struggle with that.

I think that's right, but I think it's an interesting point when your life revolves around your children. Yeah. I was listening to Jordan Peterson recently, and he was talking about empathy and how it can go wrong and how some mothers especially may not give their children the space that they need and may take their identity in mothering them, to an unhealthy degree right i don't think you've ever done that which is why i think our kids love you

so much um but okay to our children grow up and leave and then what are we going to do just enjoy each other enjoy our company travel i don't want to travel do you want travel i enjoy traveling i like seeing new places with you experiencing new things yeah i want to write a book i'm currently writing a book about our blessed Lord and I want to I want to give away not sell give away a million copies of that book and I want you and I to go all around the world and talk about the goodness of Jesus sure I'll do that yeah I'll do that I'm talking about and maybe we'll move to Kenya next year with our kids to a I've never been uh I'm open to it yeah I love um yeah I love the excitement like there's so many adventures that we're going to have that we're unaware of like there's been so many

things that have happened in our life that I wouldn't have pitt but I'm grateful for it yeah and people that have come in and out of our lives like there's still so many more to come that we don't even know about and I'm excited to see I don't know where the Lord takes us in it and what what all he's teaching us where can people find you online that's a great question Are you online? I don't know anymore, honestly. Cameronfrad.com's a thing. Is it?

Yeah, it is a thing. I don't know if it's still updating itself, honestly. Why would you think it's updating itself? I don't know. I have no idea. That's not what websites do. If it was set up to originally, I fail at so many things. Let's see, camera.

Yeah, it exists. Yay. It's probably really dated. Podcasts. Any podcast app, you can find my podcast there, Among the Lilies. It's called Among the Lilies. You're on Instagram. I'm on Instagram.

You seem to be quite active there. Yeah, I am. And it's called Among the Lilies. That's your. Yep, I think so. Yeah, it is. Okay, good, thanks. Yeah, I, yeah, podcasting is always secondary to real life.

So I fail at it many, many times. But I've really enjoyed and been blessed by the women that I have gotten to meet and speak to. and um yeah i i love encountering women and sharing their hearts and encouraging them and being beautiful life little cheerleader isn't it to proclaim christ die and be forgotten yeah praise god it's really good thanks for being on my show and having a date night with me anything else you want to talk about or no i enjoyed the date night thank you you. Thanks for having me. I am grateful for all that you do and all that you've done with this channel. Thanks for helping me do it. You're welcome. Someone, multiple people have told me that

your suffering has been the fuel that has been a blessing. And I'm like, hey, no, I haven't done that. But I think that's probably true. I think there's been a few times I've turned to you. I'm like, hey, would you mind offering some of your suffering up for pints? And you've said, I am. So I'll be serving you drinks in heaven. we'll have all the drinks we need it will all be provided for us there's no need to serve me a drink we all have ample amounts of whatever we want all of our heart's desires thanks to being on the show thanks for having me love you love you