Pints With Aquinas - My Husband Lead Me to Catholicism (Ana Munley) | Ep. 590

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Ana Munley opens up the dangers of Christian content creation and her journey from divorce and apathy to an on-fire faith and passion for evangelization.  Ep. 590 Enjoy these episodes and other exclusive content ad free, one week early with DailyWire+ : https://get.dailywire.com/All Access - - - 📚 Resources Mentioned: Follow Ana Munley on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@anamunley Follow Ana Munley on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anamunley/?hl=en  Theotokos Rosaries: https://dwplus.shop/TheotokosRosaries Truthly 30 Day Free Trial: https://get.truthly.ai/TlbX/MATT30 - - - Today's Sponsors:  Charity Mobile: Visit Https://CharityMobile.com/MattFradd Free cell phone offer with code: MATTFRADD  Hallow: Visit https://hallow.com/mattfradd. and get three months free.  PreBorn: PreBorn offers free ultrasounds, practical support, counseling, diapers, maternity clothes, and real hope. If you’d like to help, go to https://PreBorn.com/Matt or dial #250 and say BABY. Seven Weeks Coffee: ​​Go to https://SevenWeeksCoffee.com/PINTS and subscribe to save 15% forever, plus you’ll receive a free gift. Use promo code PINTS for an extra 10% off your first order, bringing your first order savings to 25%, plus that free gift. Word on Fire: Heaven in Stone and Glass is in theaters nationwide on September 20th and 23rd. Get your tickets now at https://HeavenInStoneAndGlass.com  Catholic Match: Visit https://CatholicMatch.com or download the app today. It’s free to get started Catholic Herald: Subscribe to Catholic Herald, and enter promo code FRADD for 30 days of free access: https://thecatholicherald.com/subscribe?plan=us-digital-monthly&coupon=FRADD  - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠ 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. - - - 📕 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://a.co/d/bDU0xLb 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mattfradd.locals.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠ - - - 💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas⁠⁠⁠ 🎵 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas⁠⁠⁠ 📚 PWA Merch – ⁠⁠⁠https://dwplus.shop/MattFraddMerch⁠⁠ 👕 Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com - - - Privacy Policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/privacy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Whether you need peace, encouragement, or a fresh start, pray.com helps you make prayer part of your everyday life. Download the pray.com app. I call it the devil's favorite lie. You're a good enough person. Like, I'm a good person. Yeah. Well, compared to who. I do see people kind of being nauseated at this point with this picture perfect Christian aesthetic.

What does that mean? Let me show you how to be like a woman of God. So today I woke up, I read my devotional and I went to get my nails done and then I got my hair done and then I did Pilates. It feels so manufactured. Did you ever kind of entertain the faith seriously as a teenager or after? Never. What did I do? I got tatted up, started smoking cigarettes, I got divorced, I get married, and here I am again.

I remember calling my mom crying. I'm pregnant. Could you tell people who are watching what an annulment is and why that is not a Catholic divorce? I was so in the trenches of not having more kids. Why? Why, why, why? It was just like a cry of, Lord, where are you? Can I ask how you learned and processed that you were adopted? Is that too personal?

Oh, I would love to share this story. This is very nice of your husband to give me a cigar. Oh, he's going to be so happy that he knows it was from you. I should have lied, but... What do you mean? I should have said I wanted to get you the cigars. It was my idea. It was my idea.

That's very nice. Yeah, we thought of you. And I wanted to bring like a bottle of whiskey and I was trying to do research. Oh, he didn't have to do that. So we landed on the cigars just so... Well, this is not. I'm glad you're having a drink. Absolutely.

I am too. And do you want to, have you ever tried scotch? Do you like scotch? I've never tried scotch. Would you like to? I'll take a sip. Let's try, because I have an extra glass here. Oh, perfect.

This is the best scotch in the world, which we cover up for legal purposes. There you go. Okay, great. Don't have it if you don't have it if you don't want it. Yeah. If you taste it and you like, this is the worst thing. Do we cheers? Slancher.

Slancher. Yeah, used to live in Ireland. Keep saying sluncher. Interesting. I'm going to just chase it real quick That's good All right Well it's good to have you

You and I were together last We were at a college speaking February Somewhere Yeah You didn't Ohio? Where were we?

Pennsylvania Pennsylvania I remember Penn State University That's right Yeah Jesus is our refuge You gave out all those books All the students Yes

Yeah I asked the question Off the dome I was so nervous I don't remember What the question was But The reason I said Ohio is I drove from Ohio

I was with Father Bonifus And then we drove to Penn State, and that's where those beautiful Benedictans were. Yes. What is the name of that priest who we were with? I hope he doesn't watch because I can never remember his name. I forget. But I know he facetimes Father Boniface. That'll do.

He's beautiful. He was amazing. And crazy. At one point he's like, you want to see my piranha? I'm like, yes. Was this before after he forced to see all the ice cream from Penn State Creamery? Yeah, he was a free man. It's great to have you on.

I've seen your YouTube channel and it's obviously exploding and everybody's watching it and saying terribly nice things about it. I was just on it today and seeing everyone, yeah, who's benefiting from your show. Well, thank you so much. No, it's such a, I don't know your history, if you set out to impact as many people as you have and as you continue to do. But that's been one of the most surprising but, you know, most fruitful parts of this online thing that I'm doing. And so I just, I hope to continue it as long as the Lord lets me. But just the messages that I receive from people are so surprising, yet they just make me feel, you know, for every 10 bad things that I see or that people say to me, you know, I just need one good one. And it really makes all the difference. And there's overwhelmingly way more positive than there is negative.

But we tend to harp on the negative. Yeah, you see it. It's louder, isn't it somehow? It is louder, yeah. Because I don't, there's not, I mean, how would you frame what it is you do? Because some of it's apologetics, for sure. It is, yeah. And I don't, I don't have a theology degree.

So I tend to err on the side of, listen, at any point in time, I want somebody to be able to come to, whether it's my YouTube or my Instagram and watch anything, you know, pluck it out of context and be able to walk away from it with low cortisol, feeling inspired, feeling maybe a little more educated, something of value about our faith. that I can bring to the table is really what's most important to me. And I always think of these heavy hitters that I respect and love so much. So Bishop Baron, Father Mike Schmidt, you, Trent Horn, all these amazing names in the space, if they were to see my stuff, would they say, that's great?

Or would they say, that's a little harsh or little this? So I always just kind of try and look at it through that lens. I don't like to call it an online ministry. I think it almost devalues the ministries that are out there. because it's just me and my phone, my camera in my room, talking to myself and, you know, just sharing. I always say it's an overflow of my spiritual life and that's how I want to maintain it and keep it. So if at any point in time there's a, you know, maybe something I'm going through that won't allow me to post, I won't continue to post. But yeah, I would say I would, I took the long way to the answer, but the answer would be,

Yeah, just education is really value-driven, education-driven is, I would say, at the core of what I do. I think there's this myth. Our ego wants us to believe that we're supposed to be all things for all people. But it's so – because I don't know of a lot of other women who are in the space doing apologetic work, as well as sharing other things that you do. I know it's not just apologetics, but that's really important because some knuckleheaded Australian might not appeal to someone and maybe not even – they don't want to see a bishop, but they see your videos. Yeah, it's interesting because I never set out to do apologetics. And it's peculiar that you say you can't be everything for everyone all the time.

Because when I first started, I remember, and the goal was never to do this to the scale that I am now. But when I first started, I didn't want to alienate, you know, our Protestant brothers. I don't want to alien anyone. So I didn't want to kind of pigeonhole myself into Catholicism. but that's all I know and love. And so I might be the only Catholic that somebody meets, whether it's one video or face-to-face. So what do I want them to walk away from?

From one video. Like what can they learn from me? And so, yeah, some people might not like it. And my audience is pretty, I'd say, 65 to 70% women, 30% men. But yeah, I'm just really grateful that the Lord has blessed me with these kinds of opportunities. and I could talk about it all day. I'm sure you got a lot of thoughts about like ministering or evangelizing in the online sphere. I'd love to hear more about it because I actually am so glad you went real specific.

Because I think when you remain broad, you're just sort of like as interesting as dentist art. You know, like that's not moving anybody. It's meant to appeal to everybody, so it appeals to nobody. But when you can be like, I am a Catholic woman talking specifically to this. I think you end up having more of a loyal following because you're, yeah. Yeah, and I think it's more useful for the people who are watching because my delivery of information may not be the way that somebody wants it or the way that they prefer to receive whatever, whether they view it as entertainment or value or whatever it may be.

So I think I'm so thankful in hindsight that I just said, forget it. I'm a Catholic and I'm a proud Catholic. Like I started posting because I felt like I was silenced. It's weird to say that. But I made a commitment to myself to post one thing about my faith every day that I wanted to share with other people. And it's just kind of exploded into this big thing that's far beyond me. When you first came, did you kind of come out as Catholic? Or did you always say you were a Catholic and then got more intense?

Yeah, I got more intense as the time went on. Did you find that you had followers? or viewers who were shocked to see you become? No, no. My very first video that I posted was a, it was just, hey, you don't need Prozac, you need your Bible. And that kind of got some things going. But that video was on my old TikTok and that was what got my TikTok taken down.

Oh. And so I waited like a two week period. Is that what you mean when you said silenced? Yes. Oh, I wasn't sure. Yeah. And so I took. I took that as a sign. It wasn't. It was just someone reported my video where I used copyright. I don't know

what it was, but I waited about two weeks for my TikTok to be reinstated. And at the time, I just had my friends and family who were following. It wasn't anything. I wasn't doing anything on there. And I just got so mad one day. And I said, no, no, you're silencing me? No, no one was silencing you. But I said, I'm going to come back. And every day I'm going to post something that can help someone because I'm not going to be silenced. It was a little bit of a victim mentality like, no, you're not going to silence me. I'll show you. I'll show you. But, and then I made a new page. And the first video that really went, it's so funny. I hope people don't look it up, but it's me just saying like, you know how there's culture appropriation and people get very upset if, you know, somebody dresses up as the culture

that they don't belong to. I said, what about religious appropriation? If you don't believe in Jesus, you don't get presents at Christmas. You don't get Santa. If you don't have Christ, you don't get Santa. And that was the video that really did it for me. As far as, like, reaching a lot of people. And the more angry comments that I received, the more that it fueled this, wait a minute.

There's people who are watching these angry comments who don't know the truth. So I'm going to clear it up for them. And that's never looked back. So years ago, a husband and a wife in Lithuania sent me one of their handmade rosaries, and I was so struck by it, the weight, the quality, the care in every detail. It was seriously the most beautiful rosary I'd ever seen. Now, in collaboration with Theotokos Rosaries, I'm making two of their hand-crafted rosaries

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Now, the first batch sold out right away. So, pre-order yours now at dailywire.com slash shop before the next batch is gone. That's dailywire.com slash shop. This is an interesting phenomenon, hey? Like, I started Pines with Aquinas 10 years ago before YouTube, people weren't really on YouTube, I guess. So I started out as an audio-only podcast and then it kind of turned into this. But I would say maybe over the last five or so years, there's been an explosion of people online doing things. What's your assessment of that? What's good? What's bad? So it's interesting. I started posting about a year and a half ago, a year and a couple months ago. And at that time, I would say there was probably 25% of what there is now. So in the last 12, and that could be just my ignorance because I wasn't in the space.

I didn't see other people and other accounts doing what I was doing. But I think it can be, I think it's very tricky. I think you need this level of discernment or kind of self-reflection. It's very easy and I've been guilty of it to get caught up in the numbers. I mean, these social media, whether it's YouTube or Instagram, the moment you log in, it tells you against your will, 10 new followers. followers or you'll get a notification that says, you're May in review. You reached 15 million people less than last month. Yeah. Well, okay. So it puts that right in front of you. And so I always

say it makes it as addictive for the creator as it does for the consumer because the consumer thinks, wow, this is addictive. Yeah. They're telling me what I want. They're funneling it to me. But in order for YouTube to work, it feels like they have to make the creator as addicted to it. So it can be addictive. Yeah, it definitely can. And so, yeah, it's interesting to watch that I feel Like there's two camps of, you know, whether it's Catholic creators or just Christian creators in the space. But I do see people kind of being nauseated at this point with this picture perfect Christian aesthetic that has kind of been on the rise. The last 12 months, I've seen people take a step back from that. What does that mean?

So because I'm a woman, a millennial in that kind of space, I see, you know, going to Pilates with the Bible quote in my bio and, you know, opening the word. and, you know, it's... I'm so detached. And I may be completely unaware of this. I don't know what so many things mean. Someone the other day said aura farming. I don't know what that means. What does it mean?

So I had to... I did Google this one because someone said it to me too, but I think it means that you are, like, farming, like looking for, like, aura. Oh. Like, yeah. Okay, I was... So I don't know if it's the person looking for it,

or you're, if it creates. And I think the person was joking, I hope, because I know who they are. And it was about my, I had a photo with the patriarch of Constantinople. So aura filing probably, I see it's so funny. I think it. I'm an old man trying to figure out what that means. I guess it means, yeah, all right, cool.

I think it means, but I don't know if it means that you found the aura. Like, whoa, this guy's cool. Or you're looking for it. Yeah, I think that one. I don't know. You stand by the patriarch. You're getting something. Okay, back to Bible and Pilates.

What? Oh, yeah. What does that mean? I just think it's a So this this Christian aesthetic of you know Surface level Christianity Which you know we see across many different ways But for me personally how I see it is through you know like through women

You know Christian women But it's very surface level it's let's go get our hair done Let's go get our nails done like be kind love Jesus And it's no there's a level of comfort there that's so excessive that something there doesn't seem totally right. I want to know what you're talking about. You're saying that these,

was it women specifically? Yes, I've always seen. And so are they kind of, are these videos where they're blending like talk about the Bible and Jesus with activities like getting their nails done? Right, like let me show you how to be like a woman of God.

So today I woke up, I read my devotional and I went to get my nails done and then I got my hair done and then I did Pilates and then, you know, I, you know, and so the whole, and listen. It feels so manufactured. And that's what's tough, right? Because the internet breeds cynicism.

Yes. It's so easy to look at that and go, oh, this person. Right. The young woman might be the most sincere person in the world. A thousand percent. So I want to acknowledge that. Yes. But for me, when I hear stuff like that, I'm like, oh, for goodness sake, it's just so

manufactured. Yeah. But I think that's why it's important, too, to, you know, I could take your actions at face value and this, you know, this applies in real life. But there's also this level of discernment and kind of, I can judge your action. If that's what you're choosing to put out, I'm not going to judge your posture. I'm not going to judge your relationship with God. But I can say this doesn't seem to be something that aligns with how I want to live my life or the things that matter to me.

So I don't follow. You know, I don't comment and hate and that kind of stuff. But, you know, so I think people choose to show you what they want. And we all know social media is a highlight real. But also it says a lot about what they do choose to show you. So that's important to them. So you take it with a grain of salt and discern on your own. So, okay, when did you come back to faith?

I came back to the faith. I credit my husband. I have to shout him out because everything is because of him. But so I grew up cradle Catholic. Went to Catholic school my whole life. My family's Catholic. All great and dandy. I graduated high school.

You're sure you don't mind if I smoke this. Go for it. I bought them for you. Technically, my husband did. He should have been. sitting right there so I could point to him. Next time. Next time.

So what was I say? I graduated high school and I did what most cradle Catholics do. They fall away from the faith. They live for the world and it was nothing crazy. I did not dabble into drugs, alcohol. I was just living, just living my life and got married, got divorced, met my husband. He was also a Catholic. Yeah.

But we weren't practicing. It was just like an anecdotal, like, oh, I'm Catholic too. Uh-huh. Next, you want to go to the bar? Let's go to the bar. And so we... Oh, man, I want to get into all of this. Feel free to sum it up, but I want to go back.

Oh, go back as much as you need. So, yeah, then I found out middle of COVID that I was pregnant. Okay. Not married. Okay. I was divorced with already a child. And I said, oh, great. I'm that girl now.

Mm-hmm. I got to remove myself. from this was, I was crying. I was so beside myself. And my husband, I thought he was. It wasn't your husband. It wasn't my husband at the time. Yes, we received, I received the annulment.

I see. After I found out I was pregnant. Yeah. So I told him the news. And this guy, I thought he was going to be a forever bachelor. You know, he's six, three loves to go to the gym. You know, he's a great guy, but he, I had. Jacked.

I noticed that, like, please don't eat me or hit me or. And sometimes he looks mean. Yeah. Smile a little. So sweet though. He is. He's so nice. So, yeah, I told him and he was like, this is great.

We'll get married. And I said, no, we won't. You're not going to marry me because I'm pregnant because we were reckless. Absolutely not. And he was like, no, I've been meaning to propose. And it was this whole thing. And so we got married in August of 2020. I was five months pregnant.

But before that took place, I'm painfully aware of our. doctrines. I knew I had to get an annulment. For me, it was fairly simple because I didn't get married in the Catholic Church. So I just had to prove that it wasn't a valid marriage to begin with. Ah, I see. And that was it. There were horror stories I heard of how long this process takes for some people. And it's, you know, it's very nuanced. It's very case by case. So you didn't even have, you, like, very prima facie didn't even have a valid marriage. Correct. No, I got married outside of the Catholic Church without a dispensation. So, and I, and I, like, you, like, very prima faciecia didn't even have. I I didn't even know I needed a dispensation at the time.

So I was la-di-da, but it really worked out in my favor. Thank goodness. But so anyways, yeah, received the annulment. And then we got married in the church. And my husband was like, well, we're going to get married in the church. We have to actually, I'm not going to go through these little classes. And it was the middle of COVID. So the marriage prep classes, they weren't the same the way they are now.

Yeah. It was a very one-on-one conversation with the priest who actually married us. And we met maybe four or five times. And if there's one thing about my husband, he is not a liar. So if he says, I believe this, well, now he's going to practice what he says he believes. So he started, go ahead. Would it be okay? Because I cannot wait to get into how your husband came to faith and led you into the faith.

But you've just thrown out so much material. I want to know about all of it. Is that okay? Yes. Okay. I want to go back. So was there ever a point, let's say, in your teenage years, that you had embraced the No. No. Okay. So maybe it was like myself, right? I was baptized. My mom would drag me and my

siblings to the mass. Whenever I didn't have to go, I was thrilled. Sometimes I would plant the seed like, my stomach hurts, mom. I see. Yeah, just to kind of, yeah. See if she'd be like, oh, you can stay. Okay. Yeah, God bless my mom and God bless good Catholic parents because it was rough. My poor, I remember just throwing a fit. And it was really hard for my mom because my dad wasn't a Catholic. And so he would just stay home and watch the footy. Now he eventually became a cat. Oh sorry, the footy, that's Australian football. Oh. Not soccer, not American football, something completely different. Okay. Um, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, on the telly though, he would, a TV, yeah. So did I say telly or footy? I forget. You said footy. Yeah, yeah, footy is short for football. Telly, short for television. Um, yeah, so God bless my mom

for doing that. But okay, so did you ever kind of entertain the faith seriously as a teenager or after? Never. Never. It was never a thought in my mind. And, you know, I went to Catholic school. And so I'm sure. I remember going to First Friday Mass. I remember going to confession. And it was, I remember doing an examination of conscience and being like, well, I got a B on my test and my parents want A's. That was your, that you confess that.

Yeah. And it's like, well, I got really mad at my mom or I lied to my dad. It was very, it was no actual examination of my conscience, nothing of my posture. Was there anything in your life that kind of invited you to take the faith seriously, even if you were to reject it? Was there anything like that? Any friends or any? I would say that it was honestly just my parents sending me to Catholic school. Yeah.

They really wanted to make sure that I, you know, I credit them for my foundation. I always say I'm privileged to have been born into a Catholic family. I agree. Because I can't imagine the process of conversion, especially if your parents are, you know, bapt- whatever it is, anything outside of Catholicism, there's usually some pushback. and I think it's so brave of people to convert, but I was born right into it, so thank goodness. So when you met your boyfriend for the first time, and then when you,

this is always awkward, but got married even though you didn't get married, but you know what I'm talking about? Was there any sense there that, like, were your parents like, you should get married in the church? With my first marriage? Yeah. It was actually the plan to get married in the church,

but then I can't remember exactly what took place, but then we got married at his church, which he didn't even go to. And still to this day, I think it was Presbyterian. Yeah, not sure. Might have been something else. But it was very much so, he was in the military. So it was like, all right, well, he'll come home this weekend. We'll do it at this church.

Yeah. Great. And him and I never talked about God. Faith was literally non-existent. It was out of sight, out of mind. I always believed in Jesus. I knew of Jesus. That's it.

I didn't know him. Okay. And I had really no desire to. And not because I rejected like, but it was like, oh, this is something for later. Like, I see older people go to Mass and do the rosary thing. Yeah, in the final quarter. That's when you start worrying about it. Exactly.

When, yeah. If this is too personal, please don't. Please tell me to stop being weird. But can you talk about this first marriage and how it fell apart? Or do you not want to do that? The only reason I, and I'm happy to tell, like, you, but the only reason I just don't want him to see it and think, because we co-parent. Yeah. Could you tell people who are watching what an annulment is and why that is not a Catholic divorce for those who are confused?

Yeah, it's so interesting because some people will say, oh, an annulment, that is the Catholic divorce. It's like, no, no, no, no. Yeah, but an annulment is pretty much basically the church's way of proving and ensuring and confirming that your marriage was not actually a sacramental marriage. It didn't take place before the eyes of God. it could have taken place legally or outside of the church. There's so many different factors that go into whether a marriage could be annulled in the first place. But yeah, like I mentioned for me, that was a pretty simple process. And some people think, so that's saying the church is saying that my marriage never existed.

Like are my children illegitimate? If I had children, it's like, no, no, no. That's not the case at all. It's just saying that it wasn't a valid sacramental marriage in the way that it would be in the Catholic Church. One way, I just thought of this as you were talking. There was a time under Pope Benedict the 16th pontificate where there was a priest who was baptizing people, ready, in the name of the creator and of the redeemer and of the sustainer. That's how he was baptizing, with those words, right? And so Pope Benedict declared all of those quote unquote baptisms invalid and if memory serves.

I might be getting some of the details wrong, but I don't think so. Had the priest tell him he was morally obligated to track all these people down and actually baptize them. Wow. So that would be an example where the people thought they were baptized. It looked like baptism. They assumed they were baptized, and yet they weren't. And in my own life, there have been family members. I won't say more than that whose weddings we chose my wife and I.

I told her we're not attending this very close family member of yours. not because we didn't love them, but because it was an invalid marriage because they were Catholic. And that was really hard to do. And it's so hard, right? Because you love these people and you're not trying to be a jerk

and you're not trying to say there's no merit or goodness in the relationship. That's not what you're saying. It's not like the two options are den of iniquity and then pristine marriage. Like there's obviously a spectrum here. Anyway. Well, and I think it speaks to how we view

other denominations of Christianity. it's not that they are fully wrong. They have some truth. They have some beauty. They have all of these things. But the fullness of what they experience can only be found over here. And so, you know, kind of the same thing is, you know, your marriage that, you know, at a Baptist church, at a Lutheran church, it was still beautiful. And it was, it's still, you know, meaningful.

And it doesn't mean that it never took place or that your children or this, that, or the other. But it just means that it was never really valid in the eyes of God the way that we consider a sacramental. marriage to be. So you're not attending church at all during this point up to the the first quote unquote divorce. You're not. No. And it's interesting because I got my son baptized. I sought out a Catholic church where we were living wasn't a member of it. Sought it out. You know, got him baptized. It was, it's just, it's so interesting how like I did the things that I knew. There's something good about it. You can tell there was some virtue or something wholesome in that. Yeah. I love that you're so honest about this. Thank you. I'm sure it's awkward, especially when you're so vulnerable on the

internet, because there's a lot of Phariseeism or, you know, you know what I'm talking about online. So it kind of prevents people from being. Yeah. This is why you have more Pilates in the Bible and less pregnant outside of word love. I don't know what to do, right? I'm on pregnant. Married in the church, guys. But there's so many people who are in that situation. So it's so beautiful, I think, that you can share that. Well, thank you. Okay. So, so I was, I see, so once you got pregnant, and you're dating this fella. It wasn't, so yeah, so it wasn't like, I'm in a Catholic context and what do I do?

I knew this was wrong because it was like, no, that's just, do you sleep with someone you're close to? Right. There was no real sense that you have to be married first? No, yeah, we were just in a, honestly, like, premarital sex was so, it still is, so, it's what you do to be close with your boyfriend or your, like, it was never like, hey, we shouldn't be doing, not even a single thought.

And so, you know, for me, when I found out I was pregnant, it turned my world upside down because I'm divorced. Yeah. And I come from a good, very wholesome family. My childhood was perfect, picture perfect. My dad, such a loving dad, he's a doctor. He helped, you know, like just my mom, she stayed home with us. She was such an amazing, what is the word, homemaker? Yeah.

Homemaker? And so, you know, and I, what did I do? I got tatted up. I, you know, I started smoking cigarettes. I get married. I get divorced. And here I am again. I get mom.

Whoops. Like, you know, at this time I was 20, I can't remember. It was in 2020. So, six years ago. But I remember calling my mom crying. I'm pregnant. And she was like, sweetie. every child is a gift from God.

You will figure it out. Right away, she said that. Right away. God bless your mama. I'm 30 years old. Like I'm not 16 saying, mom, dad. I'm a full grown woman with my own place, with my son and my committed relationship. And these things happen.

And I'm beside myself. But my husband said, no, we're going to do this the right way. I just love good men. I mean, my wife tells this story of a close friend of hers. Okay. and this close friend of my wife's heard the good news about sex and marriage as the Catholic Church presents it.

When she heard it, she felt convicted, but she was living with her boyfriend. Mitch, his name was. And she said, I can't tell him that. I can't tell him we have to not have sex, repent, wait until marriage. And Cameron said, why? He's not going to stick around.

But she knew she had to. So she did it sheepishly. And he's like, okay. Isn't that legit? They actually separated, got married. They're still married. They've been married longer than me. Have a beautiful family.

To me, that's the definition of godly men. It's not the, you know, like it's really, to me, when I told my then boyfriend, I mean, again, he was going on bachelor parties, having a great, like he was a, we were in a committed really. Everything was great. But he wasn't thinking marriage in that way, especially. not baby then marriage. And when, you know, when all of this came to light, when I told him, not for a moment did he hesitate. And he had, it's like he internally decided, great, okay, well, I'm 30 something. Let's do it. Let's go talk to Father John Maria was his name, who married us. And we're doing this. Most of us would say our faith shapes the big decisions in our

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visit hallow.com slash Matt Frad and get three months for free. That's hallow.com slash Matt Frad. So this is a horrible question to ask. But did you ever consider abortion for a second? No. No. Yeah. No. I'm adopted. So to me, that would be the route if I wasn't in the position to be able to have another child or have a child, it would be adoption, which is such a hard decision. Yeah. But that would be, that'd be my choice. So, yeah, it wasn't. All right.

So it's you and your boyfriend, neither of you were practicing Catholic. You're pregnant. You're not married. Then what happens? Then we got married. Yeah. And so the annulment came through quickly. You said during the time.

Yeah. So I found out in, I can't remember May or, we were married in August of 2020. It was like a two-month turnaround time. time. And my daughter was born Christmas Day that year of 2020. So it was very quickly from it was when COVID started. So from the time COVID started to the end of the year, my life did a complete 180. But when we got married, I do remember we got married on a Saturday. And we missed mass Sunday. Like we, well, we had mass yesterday at our wedding. So we're not going. My husband and I talk about that like, geez, we didn't even go to Mass. But he started going and he pulled us back.

All right. Can you tell me about that? Why did he stop going? Yeah. In my head, I saw it because I'm watching this from the outside. So I see this guy who, you know, six months ago was going to bachelor parties and having a great time. And now he's waking up at 6 a.m. to do a holy hour. I'm like, what is that? How did that even happen? That's pretty intense. Something about my husband is when he commits, he commits. So he goes all in. And so he started doing a holy hour. And we started, he started kind of bringing his family along to Mass. And I was just going through the motions.

So for me from the outside, I said, well, you know what? He loves to gamble, loves to party. He has a little more to make up for than I do. So of course he's going to do a holy hour. And he met me with so much support and great. race to he never forced anything on me he would just invite me do you want to pray the rosary we were driving somewhere let's pray the rosary did you find that annoying or no i i found it endearing that almost protective like oh you want me you do love me you know like you want me to join in oh that's nice

yeah and then had you ever prayed the rosary before no did you know what it was yeah i was familiar with it. I had, just because of going to Catholic school, I was familiar enough, never prayed it. And yeah, he, I remember, I didn't take him up on the offer initially, but he was always going to different things that our parish was offering, whether it was like a young man or a men's ministry or whatever it was. And I remember we were driving somewhere one time and he had this pamphlet of purgatory, eternal damnation, et cetera, et cetera. And we were driving and we were going under a bridge because I remember it getting dark as I like opened to this book. And it kind of just talked about mortal sins and venial sins and purgatory and all of these things that I knew, but they were

sitting out there on the outside of my faith and of my day to day. And it was, you know, excessive tattoos can be, you know, depending on mortal sin. I'm like looking. I'm like one, two, three. Oh, no, that's bad. And then it's, you know, premarital sex, porn, you know, listing all of these big things that some I had partaken in, some I had not. And then I start reading about just eternity and purgatory in heaven. And I just had this moment where I was like, I'm not going to heaven. If I die right now, I will be in hell and my children will never see me again. Because I believed in heaven, but I never contemplated hell. And I think that's where a lot of people live.

You believe in heaven. You believe in something higher. You believe in God, whatever it may be. But on the opposite side, you have to acknowledge hell as well. And that's scary for people. It was very scary for me. It's wild how we do that. When I was a teenager, I remember it was agnostic.

But I think occasionally when I felt spiritual or something, I may have said something like, I believe in God, but obviously not the devil and hell and stuff like that. And if you had to say, well, what's your arguments for God? I wouldn't have had any. and if you had have said, well, what's your arguments against Satan? I wouldn't have had any. It's just I want to believe what makes me feel better intuitively. And I want to ignore and push out of my mind what doesn't.

Well, and I call it the devil's favorite lie. You're a good enough person. Like, I'm a good person. Yeah. Well, compared to who. It's funny that only non-Christians say that. I have never met a practicing Christian who went, I'm a good person. Have you?

Ever? No. I mean, maybe you've met someone who was a Christian but didn't take their faith. Seriously who said that. But I've never met. No, I completely agree. I completely agree. It's this delusion that we feed ourselves of, yeah. I'm a good person. Okay. Compared to God. Because compared to God, I'm not a good person. So, you know, you have to put it in that context. So you're reading this pamphlet and yeah, the reality of hell. Yeah, it just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I said, okay, fine. Let me, let me commit. Let me commit to Mass. And I wasn't praying

day necessarily, but I was more inquisitive of my faith in that way. And then, you know, shortly thereafter, we, my husband and I, we wanted a large family. We still do and we tried to have more kids. And I just, it wasn't happening for me. So I said, well, maybe if I do these like weird novenas that people do, surely at that point God will be like, oh, good job. Here's your baby. So I started doing all the Catholic things, not for a good reason. It was just to kind of test, you know, like, all right, I'm a good girl here. Give me what I want. And one of the prayers that I prayed, and I've probably mentioned this before, but the very first prayer that I said was Lord fulfill my heart's desires. And, you know, kept trying and kept trying and negative test after

negative test and that cross became overbearing for me it became heavy and very i was very i felt so inadequate and so unworthy i felt like a failure of a woman and then in the same breath well you have two kids what are you complaining about okay yeah i'm so grateful yeah let me focus on that sure but those feelings it coexist yeah they don't cancel each other out. That's good. Yeah. That's so important to say. It is. And I, because, yeah, I have good friends who have two boys and the boys are stellar, awesome, and they're older now. But when they were younger, I remember this couple going, yeah, saying how painful it was when they would express their desire for another child and have people say that. Yeah. What is that? It's

dismissing you, isn't it? It is a little. Yeah. Like, you're wrong to feel the pain of not being able to have more children or something. And it's also quantifying your grief or what you're experiencing. For me, it was, I was kind of grieving this large family that I had always envisioned for myself. And, you know, this was my second marriage. So I'm not 21 years old. I have biologies working against me. So let's, let's go. And it's very dismissive. And then it makes you second guess. Because then it's, you know what, you're right. I'm so lucky to have two. It's like, but I am.

Yes. That doesn't. Two things can be true at once. Exactly. So they're not mutually exclusive and I hate that mentality. When it comes to all sorts of suffering, it's the, well, what about isms? Well, what about this? Well, what about the people who don't have any children?

Well, what about the people who can't have any? Well, what about them? Their suffering is also awful. And, like, you know, it doesn't discount mine. And so it was interesting. interesting to go through that, but, you know, ultimately, that cross that I still carry, it's been years at this point. Okay.

And still, just two kids, which I'm lucky for. I get it. People in the comments. Put it in big bold letters. I'm grateful. It's something that I've learned to just coexist with is this, you know, sometimes I get, I take it to the confessional. I'm so angry. Why do they get that?

And you can apply that to anything, not just fertility. Totally. But it's, I've had to realize over the last five years or so that my prayer was answered. He,

the Lord did fulfill my heart's desires because my desires were what God knew I needed. And that was him, solace in him, refuge in him. And so that's what I have been able to figure out through this.

And, um, You know, Catholics, people love to say that Catholics love suffering. It's like, we don't love suffering. Listen, take the suffering off the table. But I love to be able to use my suffering. It's redemptive suffering to unite it to Christ's in any way. To me, it's worth the pain that I feel to feel closer to Mary, to Jesus.

And it's a drop in the bucket in comparison. But again, I don't, there is, there's nothing good that comes from comparing people's situations. Yeah, there is a lie I think everyone believes. They hyper focus on their own crosses and they look around and just see perfect, happy people who have no crosses. Yes. But of course that's insane. And we all know it. Every single person knows that's insane, but it's this feeling that feels real.

But the more you get to know somebody and you talk to them, you realize, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm not dealing with that. Yes. The best way that I've heard someone put it is if you walked in, let's say you walk into church and everybody, everyone who's there in attendance writes down their biggest worry that they have going on, their biggest cross and they put it into a hat, would you risk yours? Would you trade yours in to pick out of that hat? And every single time I say, no thanks. That's good. I'll take my two children and be over here. Like you, you know, so when you think about it that way, it's like, yeah, I am very lucky. Yeah.

So it's just kind of learning to exist with whatever it is you're longing for. Whatever prayer is unanswered, you also have to be realistic and know that maybe that is your answer. And then you have to be aware of what beliefs are forming about yourself and God and others during that time, you know, like it's so subtle. It gets in there and you realize, oh, I'm holding false views about God and you might realize I've been living with them for years, you know. Like maybe it's like beliefs like God's punishing. me because of my infidelity or what have you. And then you go, oh, wow, is no. You know, in the name of Jesus, I renounce the lie, you know.

A thousand percent. I thought it was because I got divorced. Yeah. Well, you know, I should have had, if I maybe would have stayed with that guy, maybe I would have had 10 kids. It's like, okay, you're crazy. Let's move on, you know? Like, it's, it's hard.

It's interesting that you, because I imagine for a lot of, I could think of a lot of cases where perhaps the man is a faithful Catholic or the woman is a faithful Catholic and they help their spouse come into the church. But you're in a unique situation because your husband is just getting into it and he's pulling you along and learning alongside with you in a way. Yeah. Yeah, you were actually one of the first podcasts that he started listening to. Oh, wow. He would send them to me, I'd be like, two hours. Who has two hours?

Oh, I don't have to. You know what I do. Do you think I? Yeah. Two hours. I don't think so. But yeah, it's, I'm so grateful, you know, and people ask me, oh, how do you find like a godly husband? By the grace of God, we met at a time that neither of us were pursuing Christ in any way.

Yeah. And he decided to. And I am the kind of person, and this is embarrassing to admit, but I would be like a perfect cult member. If something makes sense to me and you're convincing enough. Sure. I'll follow along. Yeah. So I, you know, my husband took on that leadership role. And because I trusted him so much and I respected him so much.

Again, you know, my beliefs didn't change. It wasn't this radical conversion, but it was this intense reversion that really took over my whole life. And he really set the example, not only with me, but with my son and now with our daughter. And so it's, you know, men like him, he's going to love this. I know. This is way too flattering. Gosh, that guy. What's his top 10 vices? What's the 10 most annoying things? That guy loves. Please don't do this. Look at me starting. Let me tell you. Jim.

Glass of wine in one hand, index finger. Yeah. He's probably at the gym right now. Now he's taking our daughter to see Toy Story 5. Oh, is that supposed to be good? It's supposed to, well, according to my five-year-old daughter's brain, it's supposed to be amazing. Oh, yeah. Do you remember Toy Story 3 was the unbelievable? Isn't that the one with the weird doll and the, no, the purple bear, the purple thing? I never watched any of them.

Sorry. I'm not a movie person. Yeah? None, no. I get bored in movies. Yeah, I like TV shows. I know, I'm like that. That probably doesn't say anything good about you and me.

I like it short and superficial. Short and sweet. Not a lot of depth. Yeah, there are some movies I like, but it takes a lot. Most movies I'm halfway through and I can go, I'm going to go to bed. And my wife's like, how can you do that? Well, you know what it is. They don't get to the point.

I watch a documentary. I watch a documentary in Netflix. Me and my husband, we don't watch TV together ever. You know how some couples, they'll sit down and watch at the end of the day? They'll watch like 20 minutes of TV and then go to bed. Not him and I. We haven't watched a thing together. And is that because you don't like it?

Is it your fault? That's what I'm asking. We don't have a. The same overlapping interests. He likes history. Snooze Fest. Yeah, that's so funny. Yeah, my wife is caleric in some ways.

Like, she's very confident. doesn't second guess herself a lot. But she's actually very, do you know what I mean by these terms, choleric? She's very flagmatic. Yeah. What I mean is she just,

she kind of lets me tell her what to do unless she realizes it doesn't make sense. Right. And she's like, that's stupid. Why would I, what are you talking about? And then she'll want to understand it.

My point is like, we always, it's pretty selfish of me, but we usually end up watching what I want to watch. Yeah. She's like, I just want to be with you.

I'm like, yeah, well, I don't want to be with you if we have to watch another movie about a boy dying of leukemia. See, and that's me and my husband. Yeah.

Except I won't. Yeah. Well, I'll go upstairs. I'll see you later, sweetie. That's it. So I need to be more like your wife. Just like, I just want to spend time with you. Boy, leukemia.

I love those types of movies. I think it's a woman movie. I think it's a movie for women, just little children dying. I'm like, gosh, it's another movie. The kid's dying of something. Do we have to? Yeah. I think I like to feel stuff like that.

I almost made him watch a documentary about a little boy who was abused in My husband was like, why would I watch that? I'm like, because he deserves to be known. Oh, I see. And so, that's not why I watched it because he deserved to be known. I wanted to watch because I was curious. And it was like a good cry and I felt awful. And like I...

Here's a question that may make no sense to you and will expose my sexism. What is it with women and true crime podcasts? Is that a thing for you? No. Okay. But have you noticed that women are into them? Why is that? I don't know.

It's like a phenomenon. Men don't seem to get into it. No, it, I want to say since. COVID, there have been so many. I mean, there's podcasts, there's YouTube episodes, there's, with millions and millions of weekly people who listen. I don't know what it is about it. It's not my cup of tea. It's interesting. Because it's not like, I'm trying to figure out psychologically. Men might like horror or like violent movies in the way women might also like them, I guess. But something about, here, let's ask chat, GPT. I'm actually curious. I'm

I honestly think that's why a lot of people like Candace Owens. It feels like real life true crime. So a lot of women are into her. Yeah, that's true. I never thought about that. That's my take anyway. I'm curious to know what. Okay.

Why are women into true crime podcasts? I bet I'm going to get scolded for being a sexist. Not all women. Okay, fine. Sorry. But several reasons. Threat assessment and self-protection. Okay.

That makes sense. That makes the most sense to me. That does. psychological puzzle solving. That's not gender. Interest in human behavior, emotional processing. Listening to frightening stories from a safe environment can provide a controlled way to engage. Empathy for victims, many female listeners report identifying strongly with victims.

There you go, especially women and children. You're often drawn to stories that seek justice. I mean, maybe that's... Yeah, like it is interesting. I remember realizing that, you know, like your husband, ginormous men. walking down the street, he has never experienced the fear that a woman might experience in a dark alley or something. No, and not only that, but he's never been confronted the way that I've been confronted when I've been with him. How have you been confronted? I have to ask now.

Oh, yeah, I know. I opened up that can't a word. No, it's fine. We went, it was for Halloween, and he wore a MAGA hat. Uh-oh. And he was dressed as, I can't remember what he was dressed as. And I don't remember what I went as. But maybe three or four women or so, they waited until I went to the bathroom and they were like, how can you be with a man who wears that? I said. But there were women confronting you? Women confronting you. Oh, okay.

I thought you meant men, yeah. Oh, no. No, men don't, no. But I said, let's go ask him. Oh. They didn't follow me back to him. But, you know, yeah, someone like him, yeah. But I don't know if I'm thinking about the true crime thing.

Yeah, because it's, again, like if you say threat assessment. and processing, but it's like, yeah, but men like, I might just, my premise might be wrong. Maybe it's false. People let us know in the comment section. Is this more of a woman thing or not? I feel like it has to be a woman thing. I've never seen any male led podcasts or videos or anything like that. I've never seen men commentators on it.

It's always been women. And I, you know, I have friends who they love true crime. And they, you know, they're putting their, my one friend, Danielle, she'll never watch this. Maybe I'll send it to her. But she, after she has. had her second baby. I remember she sent me like a screenshot on her phone of the baby's nap schedule and she was like actually rocking her in that moment. She was like, oh, I'm rocking her to bed. This is what her nap has, how long she slept yesterday. And at the top, it was like the Idaho

murders, like episode three of four. And I'm like, what are you? Because I like horror. That's not true. Most horror is crap. 90% of horror is terrible. But I enjoy some horror, frightening things. Not I. I don't enjoy any of it. I could barely talk about. Oh my gosh. Demon. Yeah. My wife's like, this is unhealthy, babe. Because I write horror too for fun. For fun.

Yeah, I love it. No, my husband would send me father, Chad Ritberger's, his stories and these exorcism stories. And he'd be like, Do, did you see my text? I saw it. What is he cool you? Hmm? Do? No, did you?

Oh, I thought you were like, dough. Did you see my text? I'm like, that's an interesting baby deer. No. Do? He does say I look like a little bit of an owl, because with my round brown. eyes but never a doe just a know i call my wife we've been married 20 years now and i'd say for five of those years i started doing what old people do i i call her mama oh my gosh no way it was never

intentional it was it just came out well you know you're raising children yeah and you go ask mama hey mama and so now i call and now it's stuck yeah it's probably revolting to everybody who hears me say it but that's what that's what we're doing we're going with mama we use sweetie that's good that's traditional but it's older Yeah. I love that we went on to true crime, and I have no idea how. What was there, was there tenants of the faith, whether it be kind of moral teachings or, you know, sexuality, or was it like doctrinal issues about the Blessed Virgin Mary? Were there obstacles that you were like, look, I want to come on board, but this seems crazy. Or I don't want to, I can't believe this.

No, it was, it was everything made sense to me. And that's not to say that I There have been times Even throughout the last You know ever since I kind of started posting I've never questioned Catholicism The validity, the truth in it But I have questioned

Would I have ended up here? You know what what beliefs are on the other side? Like what am I missing per se? Just so I have a well-rounded Kind of outlook on faith in general But there was never anything that I That I ever had an issue with It's, it just makes sense to me.

It just makes sense. And I think when you understand something, first of all, you have to have the desire to understand it before you're rejecting it. So a lot of people reject things before they really actually know what they mean. And so, yeah, no, I had no issues. That sounds such a boring answer. I'm like, nah, I believed it all. Yeah. Well, you already said you'd be a great cult member.

And you were probably looking for reasons for it to make sense. Like you didn't have any obstacles. It's not like you're coming from a Protestant background where you'd been told that Catholics were wrong for this or that and then had to process that. And then, I don't know. I wonder if also because you were trying for a child and it's not like you had the temptation to contracept. But I wonder though if you were like, you know, three kids in. I've had the temptation for IVF and IUI and embryo adoption. I have looked into all of that.

Yeah, has that been, tell me about that. Yeah, I've never been tempted to fully pursue IVF, but everything else I've looked into, and I've almost tried to talk my husband into, I had to sit through this IVF, kind of like presentation, if you will, when I was going through the testing of like, well, why aren't you getting pregnant?

Let's, you know, so they send you all the fertility specialists. They're all IVF doctors. there is unless you go to like my Catholic doctor and that kind of stuff or do Napro is another one. But yeah, they, I had to sit through the, you know, well, this is, you know, if this doesn't work, then this is how IVF works. And I'd sit through the whole thing, what they do, the names they use, the technical terms, the cost, the this, that I was awful. I walked out of there in tears. But I needed to go through that so I could have a, what I believed would be a restorative surgery, that there was some things going on that they, believed that they could fix and I thought okay just sit through it and do it you'll get your surgery

and then you'll be good I wasn't good but um yeah with um I looked into all of those things and even even now you know if you catch me on a bad day I will question like why does God not like I wouldn't discard embryo like I wouldn't treat it in the same way that actually makes I understand it's outside of marriage but like we're trying in the context of marriage and it's not working. So then what? I know that's completely illogical and it's just based off of my emotions, but it's not illogical. I think it's an understandable reaction. But for those at home, why, why does the church condemn IVF? Yeah, so it's a kind of a twofold process. The first is that children are to be conceived and made through the act of marriage and that unit of aspect of a husband and

wife. So that's the first thing. So that's why things like IUI, which is when they take a woman's embryo and they take the man's sperm and, or no, they take the sperm and they inject it into the woman's uterus. So, you know, some people think, well, well, that's creating the baby here, but it's like, but it's not through the act of intercourse, through having sex. So, um, so that's one aspect. And then the, the freezing and the discarding of embryos is, you know, it's technically, those are abortions. Those are killing of, you know, innocent lives that still have the full dignity of God. And then the third is I always kind of call it eugenics.

It's, that's what it is. You know, this selection process of, oh, okay, we have 20 embryos. So we're going to send them off for testing up. Five of them have Down syndrome. So we got rid of those. That getting rid of those is discarding those embryos, those lives. Yeah. So that's kind of that in a nutshell.

And so it's always, it's, and listen, if there's anybody that understands the pain, it's me. I know that there's a lot of women who have been done IVF before. They didn't know. They, you know, it's, now it's kind of coming around, but I didn't know that it was. Man, I interviewed a lady called Stephanie Gray-Connor's. Uh-huh. I would highly recommend you check this out. Okay.

She's incredible. Like, you know how Trent Horn's a great debater? Yeah. She's better at debating abortion than even he is. Oh, amazing. Okay. She just gets up and she's so sweet and petite and then she just rips the face off of her opponent. A little unsuspecting. She's unreal. But she, yeah, we did it. She wrote a book on the evil of IVF and I interviewed her about it and the amount of pain that showed up in the comment section. And the pain came out as complete unhinged rage. Yeah. on part of women who were just slandering her and saying all sorts of foul things. And it would have been easy just to be like these people are insane, but I'm thinking,

I think a lot of it's just the deep pain. Yeah. Yeah. People who, maybe they think, even though she was very clear, I'm not saying your child's illegitimate. Right. Nothing like that. But fair enough.

Yeah. It's so, it's so hard because no matter whether you have done IVF and didn't know or whether you knew and did it anyways, you know, it's, yes, it's immoral. Yes, it's something that you need to take to confession, but it doesn't, it doesn't, it's much like any other sins. You know, I'm, I'm a little probably softer than some other people, but I truly, there's no sin that God won't forgive. His mercy is so far and it will reach you in like the depths of who you are that the shame you're carrying is not from him. It's from yourself. you feel shame because maybe you know that it's wrong and you participate in it, whether

knowingly or not, it doesn't matter, but it's incredibly difficult. And it's difficult for all sorts. You know, it's like, why? Why can these women not have children? Why does, you know, this beautiful family? Why does the dad pass away? Why does she get cancer? Why does he lose his job? And it can be small to you, but it's huge, you know, it's. It's interesting how we often hear that the Catholic church doesn't fit into left-right categories and it doesn't in social justice issues, which I know is a term that's been hijacked by the left, but in the Catholic sense of it. But it's also true in this sense, right? Because the church condemns abortion and the political right go, yes.

And the church condemns IVF and the political right go, what are you doing? What do you mean? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's, and it's, my husband hates this term, but from womb to tomb. That is the definition of pro-life. So, you know, and that's all all facets of it. So from IVF all the way over, and it's, yeah, it's interesting when you, you can very quickly tell who doesn't fully know the church's stances on things and just believes that they are the Republican values or just the conservative values.

And it's, you can't, you can't fit Catholicism into either. You can try, but it ticks off some boxes on both sides. That's how it should be. Can I ask what it was like how you learned and processed that you were adopted? Yes. Is that too personal question? No, I would love to share this story. And credit to my mother.

There was not a moment that I didn't know. What I mean by that is I was adopted when I was seven days old, so I don't have much memory of it. I was born in Venezuela and my parents who adopted me are from there. So I don't know my birth parents. I don't have contact with them. I have no desire for contact. But yeah, they adopted you when I was seven days old. And I just, I don't ever have a memory of not knowing.

And that's because my mom, what she did was she, she's a very creative woman. And so she illustrated a little book, just like on cardboard paper, but she illustrated these two bears, a mom bear and a dad bear. And they were in their little house in little woods in like a tree trunk. And they found this little cub out there somewhere. And they took that cub in. And they all looked the same. But that cub wasn't really their cub. And it kind of tells a story of how that cub was their cub. And it was just the three of them. And the book tells the story of, that's you. We found you. And you and you are that baby cub. And I have always, I remember the book is blue and it's hand drawn with colored pen. and my mom still has it and I just always know that is so sweet hey yeah it's do you remember hearing or as you say there's never a time you remember being told I guess no it was just part of it was just part of my sounds like a really healthy thing to do and my husband and I are um we're in the process of adoption now come on and so I'm waiting for yeah you know god willing if that takes place I'm asked my mom I need the book mom because that's how I need to explain it so it's

It's a beautiful, you know, I know that with adoption, there's trauma. It's, you know, there's lots of things that go into it scientifically, emotionally, psychologically, that I don't, I'm not smart enough to understand or be able to retell. But for me, personally, I can only speak to my experience. And it was nothing short of perfection. Yeah. It's funny, isn't it, when people keep assuring you that you should be far more traumatized than you are. Like, oh, your dad did, let's say, something totally different. Your dad like hit you when you were young.

Oh, you might not realize this. And you're like, okay. I mean, how far do I have to go digging? Like, I promise you, I have no trauma. And sure, maybe some things have affected some whatever. You know what it has affected? My stance on pro-life, it's affected my view on adoption. It's adoption has never been.

I told my husband, before he was my husband, when we were dating, I remember I was walking in their neighborhood with his mom. And I was like, I'd love to adopt one day. And she was like, what? And, you know, at the time, I didn't know that I was going to have issue. Nothing like that. But it's just always been a part of my story. And so I think it gives me a unique perspective into it.

And people will always do that. And they'll invalidate your experience with faith, with your suffering, with your situation, your circumstances, the choices you make. They'll always do that. Oh, well, no. You don't know. So we can all name someone in our life who has made an amazing difference. I'm thinking of this one beautiful woman who was so kind to me when I was a child.

She just supported me. And I would say that support in a very real way changed my life. One way you could do this for someone is supporting mothers facing unexpected pregnancies. That's exactly what pre-born network clinics do. They offer free ultrasounds, practical support, counseling, diapers, maternity clothes, and real hope. And when a mother sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, something remarkable happens. That one moment dramatically increases the likelihood that she's going to choose life. Your generosity has already helped rescue hundreds of thousands of babies, but there are still mothers walking into clinics today who need someone to stand beside them.

You'll probably never meet these children and they'll never know your name, but your generosity could become part of their story forever. If you'd like to help, go to preborn.com slash mat. preborn.com slash mat or dial pound 250 and say baby. I grew up in Australia and we only had instant coffee in the 80s and 90s. I don't think it was until I was maybe like 18 years old that I had my first good cup of coffee and then immediately became hooked on it. I love coffee so much. It's become one of those little daily rituals I genuinely look forward to. And what I love is great coffee with a great cause. Seven weeks coffee is doing more than roasting great coffee. Seven weeks coffee is America's pro-life coffee company and they donate 10% of every purchase to pregnancy centers and pro-life

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asking how they can get their husband to be the spiritual leader of their household. Do you? Because I mean, your story revolves around this. I get a lot of messages about that. Yeah. I just don't know what to say. I don't. It's only by the grace of God. And I don't, I love that honesty. It's like I don't have, I can't write a book. There's no five point plan. No, I couldn't. I, I didn't even say a prayer. It just happens that way. So, and I'll credit to him, of course. But I just think it's, I don't want to call myself a week because I'm a very strong person. but I needed a man like that to lead our family in that way. And he was so strong. You know, when I met him, he was very much so this like, you know, like alpha energy. You know, you would think

that he would be one way. But he really surprises you in his intellect and his curiosity and his determination. And like, I just, I credit him for all of it, really, without him pulling me in that way and not even pulling in an aggressive way, but just showing me. And just, he was so supportive in how he introduced our faith back to me. He was just a witness. And that's what I hope that I can be for other people is just a witness. Interesting. What do you, what do you mean by that? As opposed to what, preaching at you? As opposed to debating me into the faith or shaming me into the faith or commanding that I just do what I say. Like, follow me. It would, it, you know, of course it'd be like, hey, we're going to go to church Sunday.

Like, hey, don't forget Mass is at 10 a.m. I never fought back. I was never like, I don't want to go. Yeah. I always went. But it was him, you know, it was kind of like reverting back to growing up. Like, if he did say we were going to Mass, well, I'm not going to bring it up. Yeah.

But he always said, we're going to pass. Wow. So, yeah, I just, I credit. I'm giving him too much credit. I know. This is awful. I kind of wish he was here so we could talk to him. I know.

Did you notice his character change or just his habits of going to, 6 a.m. maturation. No, I noticed his habits changed in what was important to him. Because we went from dating. We were engaged for a blip and then married. And I noticed a couple months into our marriage just as he got deeper into the faith, he prioritized our family in ways that you can't teach someone to do. you know like not only with the faith aspect of it of course but just introducing my son which is his stepson

to hey we have to sign him up for he's going to receive communion and it's just it was very in very subtle gentle ways but very manly leadership type ways and you know I responded that's why I think why I responded the way that I did because it wasn't overbearing And it wasn't shameful, but I think that's how you truly can lead your family. And, you know, like, online, like, there is this level of, like, charity that you need. Like, you can deliver the truth about our faith and about morals and beliefs, but there has to be an element of charity and love there. Because if there isn't, you're most likely going to be met with up, I'm on the defense. Yeah.

It's just human nature. St. Paul, right? You'll be a clashing gong, resounding symbol, if you. have not love here. Yeah. Yeah, isn't that a wild line if you give away everything, including your body to be burnt and have not love, I am nothing. That is wild. But, okay, so you, but so you read that pamphlet about hell purgatory that was compelling to you. But I mean, how did you go from that to running a big Catholic YouTube channel? You must have fully bought in at some point between then and it was the suffering. There was the infertility. You know, it was that

prayer that I asked of God to fulfill my heart's desires. I was so in the trenches of why me of not having more kids. Why? Why? Why? Why? That I remember I went to confession one day. And I said, I'm just, I'm so angry at God. And the response I got was tell him. And I did. And after, you know, wasn't this like, the priest told you that. Yeah. And I wasn't like I sat down. I was like, I am angry. It was just like a cry of, Lord, where are you? Like, what do I have to do? I'm so forgotten by you. Why? And it's, it was constant. It was that feeling. It was constant. And I had one day where I said, I need to put this energy into something else. I want to dive into the word. I'm going to join a Bible study. And there was no Bible study near me, a Catholic Bible study near me. And so I started, at my parish and about 10 ladies joined and it's changed my spiritual life. The fellowship that is I've received and I've gotten from that Bible study is unlike anything else. So it's my husband and my friends that I met through the Bible study that that's why my faith is

the way it is. And there's just no, there's no replacement for that. You can't find that in a book. You can't find that in a YouTube video. Yeah. Those are things, those are crucial. So you may have already told me this. What was your first, you probably, I think you said this. Forgive me for asking it again.

What was your first video that you released then? Forget the Prozac. Pick up your Bible. That was the one on TikTok that you said. Yeah. And you got banned for that. Okay. And then you just started doing it gradually.

Yeah, it's funny. People will say, did you ever know it would be this big? And I don't know what you say, but I say, it happened so slowly for me at least. Yeah. I never, you know, it didn't happen overnight. I think mine was, mine happened very quickly looking back, the opportunities that I've gone in and the stories that I've received back.

Sometimes I'm like, they know that I'm, I don't have a theology degree, right? Like, they know I'm a college dropout, right? Well, I remember, to that point, I remember when I got hired at Catholic Answers, back in like 2011, I didn't have any degree. In Australia, people aren't, when I graduated, it wasn't expected that you go to university. Like some people did, but most people probably didn't from Moscow, which I actually now think is tremendously smart.

I don't know why you would go to university unless you had a good reason. But then I, in a way, so I drank other than answers and they said, look, you can communicate well. I would much rather have someone like you who can communicate well, and then we can get your degree, and they did help me, right? As opposed to someone who comes in with a degree and cannot communicate. So, like, thank God that you can communicate well. Yeah, that's such a gift to be able to communicate your thoughts.

I think you can't teach that kind of stuff. Like, you can learn it over time. I thought that recently. I drove past one of those, have you heard of Toastmasters? No. Toastmasters, I believe, is a place where you go to learn how to give public speeches. No way. Oh, like giving a toast.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, not like the bread. And I was driving by that and I said to Cameron, I don't know if you can teach that. I think you can get better at public speaking, less terrified of public speaking. And I'm sure if I or went there, I might go, oh, okay, that's really helpful. But I don't know. Part of it is just, I remember asking my friend Christophannick when I started giving talks about his advice.

And he said, just go up there and be big awkward you. I think that's the best advice that anybody could give. Yeah. Honestly. It's the best because I'm like, he's like, don't try to sound like Scott Hahn. Don't try to sound like Jason Everett because we all do, right? We all try to.

We all accidentally imitate people. He's like, it could be big, awkward you. I'm like, oh, I can crush that. Got it. Yeah, yeah. I've been doing that one my whole life. Exactly. Never thought it would pay off.

But yeah, but to our point earlier about the more general you are, the less interested people are, it's the same thing when you present. It's like, you can just be yourself and your own beautiful, awkward you. then this cigar is fantastic, by the way. Yes, I'm shocked at how much I like it. Really? Yeah, so. I was hoping you'd hate it.

Thank you to your good, what's that? I was hoping you'd hate it. I'd be like, Joe, sweetie, you messed up. The Gazette, all right. Yeah, it's this little, so in St. Cloud where we live, it's this little tiny cigar lounge, but it's, it has a little bar, it has these big leather seats. It kind of looks like. Yeah, that's kind of what we were going for here, yeah.

And it's just, you walk in. and like your eyes start watching my contacts like dry up immediately because there's just these men we just love to sit and smoke and so my husband and his friends will go there often and so i was like you know what what can i get matt frat of all people and of course he was like texting his like like hey guys what should i want to get matt frat and a resounding cigar cigar so yeah i tend to get if people do get me something it's usually an icon or a cigar and i'm not complaining that's really cool Yeah, it's funny. I like cigar lounges, but my wife can't handle the smell.

She likes pipe. Can she smell it on you? Oh, yeah. So I now smoke a pipe in the house, you know? It doesn't have a smell? She loves the smell of pipe. She hates the smell of cigar. No way.

And she's never told me, she doesn't want me smoking in the house. But she doesn't mind if I smoke out there, but she was like, I'm worried about how many cigars you're smoking. Because I'm talking like two or three a day. Oh. And I'm like fair. That's fair. And so I started smoking a pipe and I didn't like it originally. But the more I've done it, the more I'm liking it.

Oh, yeah. Plus being at night, I get to sit in my dressing gown, my kids, and I read them fairy tales and smoke a pipe. It's real fun. Oh, that's great. So that's what I recommend to men. Start with a cigar so your wife hates the smell. And then go to a pipe, which was your actual original plan and she'll like it. That's great.

A little manipulative. I like it. I like it. The more I think of it, it's pretty horrible. But yeah, so, like I would love, let's just go sit in a cigar lounge, but no, she wouldn't like that smell. No, I do like a drive-by when he's there and, you know, like if, like he'll take, you know, my oldest is 12. Yeah. So my oldest, the bike will be in the back seat.

He'll go to the cigar lounge and then there's this like cool little like restaurant right next door. So my husband sits outside the cigar lounge. He watches my son like do the cornhole, whatever and then do his bike across the street to the 7-Eleven to get snacks. I don't want to docks you, nor do I want you to dox yourself, but do you live in a small town? It has like a, yeah, we live right outside Orlando. Okay. So, yeah. Oh my goodness, I'm sure you told me this.

I didn't realize you're quite close to. Yeah, St. Cloud. Not too far from us. Who's a real saint, by the way? Okay, who is he? I've never looked into it. You're like, I was hoping you should. Every time our priest says during something about St. Cloud.

Is he French? Your guess is as good as mine, friend. Well, I would believe it would just be cloud. C-L-A-U-D? C, No, that would be clod. Okay, sorry, what's cloud? Cloud.

Like a cloud in the sky. Oh, really? Florida. Let's see, is it a thing? I'm gonna see, you might be making all this up. Imagine, I'm like, ah, you bought it. That'd be so weird. But a loser.

Yeah, like you're not even married, you didn't, you don't even Catholic. Gotcha. One of the inside scoop. It's thinking. See, it doesn't even believe you. Oh my gosh, imagine. I wish I had my phone here. Do you go to a good parish?

Yes. Yes. I wish they had more daily mass times. That is my gripe about most parishes. Daily mass time cannot be at 9 a.m. Okay? Five in the morning or 10? Literally.

I'm at work. Can we get a 7 a.m. option and then maybe a 5 p.m. option. I know. I know it's daily mass. Whatever. I shouldn't have to wait until I'm 70 if I make it. Yeah.

To go to Daily Mass every day. That's nice that you want to go. We do have a 7 a.m. Oh, you do? Yeah, and it's not far, so I really have no excuse. Oh, yeah. You're close to yours? Yeah.

Yeah, we're about eight minutes from mine. Um, I don't think I would like to live in Orlando. It just sort of seems. It's very... I know you don't, you're not in Orlando. Yeah. It's kind of landlocked, isn't it? What, you mean like, um...

That's not by the ocean. No, it's not. But there are... We don't have Like our H-O-I or our homeowners insurance We don't have that flood insurance We don't have none of that

Because by the time a hurricane comes over us It's like a hurricane Category 1 So we don't have any damage We lose our lights here and here and there But our closest beach is 35, 40 minutes Oh, that's not too bad I didn't realize that

Central Florida is where you want to be Okay My wife drives to Orlando To see her chiropractor Oh Yeah regularly All right ready where we are going to learn about St. Cloud.

Yeah, and that way you'll know from now on. I can't wait. Okay, so St. Cloud refers to St. Claude. Claude. How do you say that? C-L-O-D, C-L-A-L-D. Clodold? You were more close than I was then, I guess.

A French prince who became a monk and priest. After the death of his father, his, the saint's uncles killed much of his family. in a struggle for power, rather than pursue the throne, he renounced his royal claims, entered religious life, and became known for his humility and holiness. He's venerated as a saint in the Catholic Church and the French town St. Cloud. I live in a French club. Well, maybe there's another, maybe that's another. Oh, you know what?

There's a St. Cloud, Minnesota. Oh, really? But it does point out that it's in Orlando. Oh, okay. Maybe there's a St. Cloud in France. I don't know. The Florida. Oh, no, no, no.

Okay. French town of St. Claude is referring to the Orlando. The Florida city ultimately gets its name from the... Oh yeah, from that. No, I thought it was better, so. So Cloud is the English of Clodold. Yeah, good. Well, thank you for the lesson.

Do you remember any of that? French. French. Something about a prince. And the family power struggle. Yeah. What's your association with Truthly? Oh, Truthly.

So they... And what is Truthly? Yes, so Truthly is a Catholic. AI app. I know. It's like a buzzword. People go nuts when you say AI, people say AI, but having coneption fits. I like to describe it to people who've never heard of it is think of chat, GBT, except it's only going to give you verified Catholic sources information through that lens only. So they had reached out last year. And at this time, I was like a very normal. chat GPT user.

Like I was just testing it out. And I was like, okay, well, I would love it if I could say, what's the litany of whatever? What's the history of this? Like, just those quick things that I would like to look up. I would love it if I could get verified Catholic answers. And so, yeah, they reached out. And I said, this is a very cool app. I downloaded it.

I started using it. I told my husband, that guy, I'm going to stop mentioning him. He started using it. And yeah, we just got to talk. I got to know Zach and Jake and just their story of why they created this app and what they wanted to do with it. It just resonated with me because, again, we live in this world. It's ever changing, ever constant. And it's to want to do something so good with what the world's produced, which is, you know, this AI, this artificial intelligence. And, and I mean, I mean, to me, that's the goal of Catholicism is take things that are from this world and bring our light to it and, you know, glorify God in some way, whether it can or it can, whether it fails or succeeds it. That's besides a point. But that's what we're called to do is bring that light into the darkness. And so to me, that's how I kind of viewed it. But I got to know Zach and Jake and just, and just getting to know them and their story and what they wanted out of Truthly, I just, I really wanted to sign on board and just help them.

any way that I could. And now, I mean, I use truthfully all the, I use it all the time. You know, like when you pull down on your iPhone has the suggest, it's always like, it's like email, texts, truthly, Instagram, whatever. So, so yeah. So that's my affiliation with them. I've met Zach, um, a bunch of times. Um, Kylie who were, they're like, Kylie's like the, the right hand man there of, for both Jake and Zach. But I love what they're doing. I love their mission. I know there's a lot of hesitation and apprehension around AI, but.

I think it's such a great app. I. And the interface is so fantastic. Well, and they, the things that they've added into it were things that I had thought about last year when I first started using it, be like, you know, it'd be so cool if they had maybe a daily reading. It'd be so, and these were never the things that I voiced. Yeah.

It was just like, oh, I love it, but I'd love it even more if I could do. Jake and Zach are the two most, it's almost irritating, the two most optimistic, joyful people I've ever met. No, if. If you haven't had your coffee, you're not ready for them. Yeah. Because you, you know, you meet Jake and he's optimistic and you meet Zach. You're like, good night. It's like a little adderol pills.

I thought there's no way. There's no way this guy's legit. Yeah. Now I've known him for well over a year. And no, he's always like that. No, he's always. Well, this is what I talk about. Like the fruits of the Holy Spirit, that joy, because they are doing this for the reasons that you would want somebody to develop an app like this for those reasons.

So it's like it's these two guys who just, he couldn't be any more excited and hopeful and optimist and faithful, devout. Like Jake goes to Holy Mass every day. If I bring something up, I'll be like, yeah, I'll pray for that. I know. I know today. Praying for you guys. Like you. Guys, like, do you ever see?

in. Uh-huh. Well. But so yeah, so I got, I've, I've known them about a year now. I've been using the app for about a year. We'll put a link in the description if people want to try out truthly for a 30-day free trial. Oh, yeah. Just click that link.

It's awesome. Android, iOS. What's cool is my 16-year-old daughter just got a phone for the first time. And we used this excellent program called Shift to block the, the internet entirely. Blocks the app store, everything. It's terrific. But it permits certain things.

And so it permits truthly. And I just think that's something if parents are opening up that world to their kids, truthly is where you want to put them because you go on chat cheptie and you can get it to say a lot of things that are desperately immoral. Yes. Whether it's about the trans stuff or premarital sex or, you know, how to get an abortion without my parents knowing it. I don't know if you saw that. There was a whole thing where chat chitpt was helping kids do that. Yeah, truthly won't do that.

No, and the thing that I really like about Truthley is, for instance, Chachubit, every kid across any campus in the U.S. has heard or is using Chachabit. And so, an app like Truthly, if you ask Chachabit a question about, what do Catholics believe about whatever? I don't know what you're going to get. I don't know what answer you're going to get. With Truthly, you're going to get the right answer. But furthermore, with ChachuBT, you're going to get a suggestion of what else it can do for you. Would you like me to tell you what da-da-da-da. Would you like me to print out that a da-da-da.

Do you, Truthly is the one kind of app that it'll give you the information that's from valid, accurate sources, only Catholic sources. But then it asks you a question. Like, how does that make, you know. How does that help with your prayer life or something? Yeah. Like, is there something about your prayer life that this reminds you of? Is there something that you're struggling with? So it's like, it puts it back on to you. So the whole goal of Truthley is not to use it more and use it more and use it's to get you off the app.

And, you know, it's some people think that AI is, I think Father Chad Ripper said this, that artificial intelligence, it's not intelligence. It's a gathering. It's a gathering of like the most wide set plethora, like ocean of information. And it's all right. It's condensed it right here. There are arguments for God that happen in books. and then there are arguments for God that happen when you walk into a cathedral. You've probably had that experience. You step into one of these ancient churches and for a moment you stop talking, you stop thinking, you just look.

Beauty has a way of opening the heart before the mind is even ready to argue. That's why I'm excited about a new documentary called Heaven in Stone and Glass featuring Bishop Robert Barron. He journeys through five of France's greatest Gothic cathedrals including Notre Dame, Chartres and other names that I can't pronounce, unpacking the theology hidden in the architecture, the stained glass, and the incredible craftsmanship that has pointed souls toward God for centuries.

Whether you're a lifelong Catholic exploring the faith or you simply appreciate beauty, this is the kind of film that's meant to be experienced on the big screen. Heaven in Stone and Glass is in theaters nationwide on September 20th and 23rd. Get your tickets now at Heaven Inc. Stone and Glass.com. And if your parish or community wants to attend together, visit

heaven in stone and glass.com slash group for group reservations. So I want to talk about a company I've talked about in the past, namely Catholic match, because it encourages intentional dating, not collecting matches. You, if your discerning marriage, should hold the line on what actually matters. Faith, character, openness to children, and a shared direction in life. Give a little grace, okay, on the non-essentials like height, hobbies, or the perfect profile picture, the best spouse rarely matches your checklist exactly. And thank God for that. If you are serious about discerning marriage, visit Catholicmatch.com and take the first step. It seems like there have been many videos where I will talk about Catholic match and then in the

comment section, someone will say something like, I promise I'm not being paid to say this. I met my spouse through Catholic Match. Now, I got married well before apps and smartphones and color television. That's a joke almost. But if I was single right now with dissenting marriage, I would absolutely give this a shot and I think you should too. Go check out Catholicmatch.com today to take the first step and be sure to download their app. So here is a nugget of advice. Be careful what you feed your mind. We all know that what we watch affects us, what we listen to affects us, but what we read that shapes us too. If most of your information comes from headline, think about that. If most of your information comes from headlines, social media, or people

who fundamentally misunderstand the Catholic Church, it's no surprise that your perspective will get distorted. That's why I'm grateful for publications like The Catholic Herald. It's such a beautiful magazine. The Catholic Herald has been covering the life of the Catholic Church since 1888. Over the it has features from some of the greatest Catholic writers in history, like G.K. Chesterton, Evelyn Waugh, Monsignor, Ronald Knox, even J.R.R. Tolkien wrote letters to the editor. Today, they're continuing that tradition with thoughtful news, analysis and opinion on the church and the world from a traditionally Catholic perspective. No sensationalism, thank goodness, no agenda-driven outrage, just serious writing for serious readers. I have these magazines at my house,

They are not only excellent, like the material is excellent and edifying, it's also really beautifully put together. So if you'd like to give the Catholic Herald a try, they're offering my audience 30 days of free access. Just head to the Catholicherald.com. All of this stuff is online as well, of course, and use promo code frad at checkout. That's the catholicherald.com, promo code frad for 30 days free. I obviously have some really wonderful people on the show, especially some really brilliant people on the show like Father Dominic Legg and Trent Horn and others.

Yes. And when I've had them on, it's usually after the show is over because I don't want truthy to look bad. So I'm like, ask it a question, you're pretty convinced it won't get right. And it actually gets, it has got it right every time.

Wow. The reason I didn't do it live is in case it didn't. I don't make truthy look bad. And I'm sure there'll be a time where I'm like, that's false. Actually, the only time I've done that is when it still thought Pope Francis

was the Pope. There was like a, they hadn't updated for like three or four days. But no, it's really good. And I, um, I do these live streams on daily wire every Wednesday. And it's really cool because I have Baptists and Mormons who love me. Nope. And others, you know, who watch. And I just sent a few books to this one Protestant fella, like the catechism of the Catholic Church and stuff. But I didn't even occur to me. I should have said, download the truthly app. Yeah. Because it's like a, it's like, it's like Catholic answers in your pocket. Yes. It is. That's exactly what it is. And I mean, there's, I know that people are apprehensive.

And for, I've always said, I want to make Catholicism cool again, normal. Yeah. It doesn't have to be this heavy handed, just, I love suffering. Like, it can also be, there's joy in Catholicism. And I want to showcase that, not me personally, but, you know, I want people to experience that and to show that to the world. And with all of that in mind, it's the fullness of truth is how I, you know, what Catholicism is. So that's how I like to approach everything. So I don't need this staunch anti or pro-AI mindset right this moment that I need to tell people right now.

Like you can discern things on your own. But if you are thinking about AI in general and you're anti-that, that's fine. truthly may not be for you. If you are somebody who doesn't want to use AI at all, it's a tool. You don't want to use the tool. That's completely fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you do want to use it, know what it is. And it's every college student is using Chat ChbT. I would much rather have them be using, truthly, for any of their faith questions. I don't want Chat Chubit telling a 20-year-old what Catholicism is or what it is in or where they can find out more information. And there's a lot of people who aren't ready to pull the trigger. of OCIA. Yeah. So what are their option? Okay, go online. Yeah.

Google, whatever. Maybe put it on Instagram. Guess what you're going to find. Yeah. And you know how they say that, well, I don't know what the saying is, but until you're ready to ask the question, the answer is unhelpful. So fair enough. Like if there's young people out there who just don't care what the Catholic Church

teaches and they're not going to care what the Catholic Church teaches. But it would have been super helpful for me when I was 17. Thought I was better than everybody, knew everything. Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely agree. And it's just why, why not? Why not take the catechism?

And, I mean, do you know how to find valid documents from way back when by Pope whoever that's talked about whatever? Written in Latin? Yeah. I actually, I think it was your interview with Trent Horn where he was talking about when he kind of first started using the internet. It was this place of discovery. You were discovering things. Now you're being fed things. You have to be, you know, you really have to dig for information.

Yes. And half the time it's misinformation. Yeah. So how do you know? Yeah, I think just like in the church online, so not the church, but Catholics online, we can end up just reacting to each other the same way they do in politics, you know? So like Trump does something. And so then the left freaks out.

And then the left freaks out and then the right goes in the opposite. direction. And I think there's a tendency to do that as well where it's like, yeah, it's just, well, I think that's what's so tough about social media is rage bait does get rewarded in a way. Yeah. So you tend to get extremes, like whether you're talking about what mass I should go to, what to think about feminism, like you're going to get really, so it's nice to just go, what does the church actually teach about it? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's polarizing. The, rage bait the and sometimes you participate in it yourself without really you know wanting to or setting out to do that but um yeah i just i what's your thought about this uh not just about rage bait

but about yeah i guess have there been ways that you've used social media to try to promote the catholic church that looking back on you like okay that was i think all of us who've been on for five minutes have said something stupid yeah i've definitely i've definitely kind of dipped my toe into that yeah uh i wouldn't say rage but uncharitable approach. Gosh, that's easy to do. It's so easy. It was in the beginning when I want to defend the church

because in my head, well, she deserves my allegiance, my loyalty, me defending. And again, I took it to confession. And the priest said, the church was here before you. She will be here after you. She doesn't need you to defend her.

It's great that you do. Yeah. You don't need to. Yeah. The church won't stand or fall because of me. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm irrelevant in the church standing. But, uh, well, I know, I know what you're doing and I know what you mean, but I'm sure you've also contributed to the conversion of people through your good work. I, I have, what a gift. What a grace. Thank God. It's, it's so undeserving. It's so, it's unbelievable when you hear those stories.

Um, you know, for, I mean, you played a huge role in my husband. So it's like, you know, and he played a huge role. role in mind. So, you know, it's not only the person that might convert or might through. That's what they'll then do. Yeah. Yeah. So really, I credit them all to you then. Take that. Thanks for the cigar. You're welcome for your faith. I'm just joking. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. But, you know, I remember hearing there's a Protestant YouTuber by the name of Ruslan. Oh, yes. I really like him. But people will sometimes accuse him of being too clickbait. and he brought up a good point that I thought was interesting.

He said, well, it's kind of, it's an act of humility to learn how a system works and then to use it to bring people in to evangelize them. Now, obviously, you could use that as a justification for doing all sorts of horrible things. But, I mean, so long as you're not doing that, like one thing we found out on our channel is whenever we post a breakout or a clip of a long form discussion, like we will do for this one. We always A, B, test titles and thumbnails. And so we'll usually have three titles, right? And it'll give you a percentage of how many people are clicking on this title versus this title versus this title. Dude, we, unfortunately, the titles that begin with, you don't understand Solar Scriptura. You don't understand.

Oh, they always work. They work. So I'll be looking at the three suggested titles and that you don't understand the Immaculate Conception. is like 63% and the other one that's not far off and has a great title has like 22%.

So I blame my audience. If you don't like that title, stop clicking on it. Because what am I supposed to do? Right. Because to be fair, you probably don't understand the Immaculate Conception

in the way that Ethan News just described it to you or Trent Hall just described it to you. So it's not a lie. That's true. There is some truth to, I'm sure, all of your titles. But that's a little,

you know, what's the term click and, Click and switch. It's like a little click baity to bait bait and switch them. Bless bait? Yeah, bless bait. Well, you come in and we, yeah. I got, um, I get some of those comments because sometimes I'll talk about Padre P.O.

Or, you know, I'll father, Chad Ripper, whatever it is. And I put them in my thumbnail because I'm. Yes. Well, like, what do you want me to do? You want me to create the most unattractive, no title. Right. No title, no thumbnail. Just a black box. Right. And I'm, I mean, I use Padre Pio's picture, but like I would hope that you know, I didn't actually interview him.

Like, he's not in the video. And so I've, so, but on the other side, I totally get where they're coming from because I also use YouTube and I also roll my eyes at titles. So I don't blame people for rolling their eyes at my titles. But you'll see, like, what she did next was wild. And you're like, I know that that's not true. And it's all hyperbole. Yeah, it's shocking.

Yeah. Like, what Jesus said will shock you to your court. Yeah. Well, will it? Yeah, that's, that's interesting, isn't it? It's just, it's just the name of the game. It's And then what's funny is there's been times

I've done interviews And I'm like, Let's go the complete opposite direction To see what happens. So I interviewed a little beautiful Dominican nun Like what am I going to do? What she said will blow your mind. So instead we called it

Just a lovely conversation with a beautiful nun. That was the title. Oh, wait, was that in like December? Yeah, or January. Oh yeah, yeah. I think I watched it. She was so lovely. And we have one clip of hers

that has had over three million views. It's wild. You never know. You don't know. Do you find? I sometimes go, this is going to go gangbusters and it doesn't. No, it's every, it's all the ones that I don't suspect to do well. And it's not just idiots like me who don't understand how YouTube works.

It's like the people in the building next door who are YouTube wizers. Like they study YouTube. They know how, even they sometimes have no clue. No, it's, there's no, the algorithm, there is no algorithm. It's all like, that's, that's like my thing. It's like, is it real? I think social media is gaslighting us as a whole. Social media, yeah.

Do you think I asked this question to Gavin Aortland when he was on my show, who I love. I love Gavin. I obviously disagree with Gavin. He's a Protestant apologist, but I think he's a good man. We asked, like, did you ever see that old movie with Gwyneth Paltrow sliding doors? She's heading down. No. It's like she's about to get into the subway.

and in one timeline the door shuts before she gets in and in another she makes it and then it shows you how her life branches out and how different her life becomes because of this one incident? No. Yeah, it's fascinating. I don't know if it's a good movie.

I'm not recommending it. And you hate movies anyway, so don't worry about watching it. But I said to him like, how would we be different right now if we never? And that worries me sometimes. I know. I know.

That's kind of like a black hole that. Don't want to look at? Yeah. For me, like black holes in space don't make sense to me. Okay. So they're not real to me. Good. So when things don't, like, I'll look at Joe and I'll be like, black hole.

And he knows I'm out of the conversation. I really can't. Well, I guess what I'm talking about is like, has it made me worse? Am I more vain, more interested in the opinions of people about me? More defensive about their opinions of me? Right. To just be honest, like, I went to that Penn State University. Yeah.

I hadn't traveled and spoke for a long. time. It had been about five months, maybe. And I'm used to, and I had just come off like joining the Daily Wire. And so everyone's calling me a Jew. And I've sold out and I'm Judas and I've abandoned the faith, which I knew wasn't true. And it didn't really bother me, but it gets annoying. Yeah. And sometimes when you're not in a good mood, you find it especially annoying. So when I went on this campus, I was like, there was, I didn't, it wasn't even, I didn't, It wasn't even conscious of it, but I was just expecting smart-ass people. You know?

Yeah. But everyone was so kind. There wasn't a single one inside. So I was like ready to go. You had the gloves on. Yeah, totally. I was elbows up and they were like, hey, thank you so much. I'm like, oh.

Yeah. Thanks. Which, of course, doesn't mean they agree with everything, but it's just people in real life are often a lot more. So that's my advice for people who are running some kind of online things. Just try to get out, do a meet and greet. Yeah. Because... The internet's not real.

Yeah? The internet is not real. It is a place that lives on your phone that can go away. And that's... People need to remember that. So if you are, you know, whether you're a viewer, a creator, or whatever it is, if you, when you turn it off, like, I know sometimes it doesn't go away because the comments live in your head, the thoughts live in your head. But it can go away. Yeah.

So make it go away. It's, to me, it's not real. Go on. No, I was just going to say, if I had a doll. for every weird comment I've got. People make the weird. I love your content, but you talk with your hands too much, and I can't take the message. Lady, then turn your phone upside down.

But what's funny is no one would say that in real life. Nobody. Hey, I just want to say great talk. I don't like how you talk with your hands. You'd be like, are you autistic? Were you nervous? What's wrong? Why would you?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had my mate John Henry Span, best friend. He was on my show. And he told me that someone left a comment that is love. lived rent-free in his head for two years. Oh, no. And the comment was, this guy looks one ham sandwich away from a heart attack. He's like, damn it.

I can't let that one go. If I, no, that one would, that one would say with me too. My comments are always about my eyebrows. Yeah. I don't know, guys, their sister is it. Really? What do they say? They're distracting. Oh, really? Why?

Everything I do is distracting. Do they move too much? Yeah, when I talk, like, this one goes higher. I'm like, what do you want from me? I never noticed. Send me a video of you and me and my husband will critique your fat face. I'll let you know what you should. Yeah, exactly.

But it's so interesting because the people that make those kinds of comments and sometimes it'll be like someone was like, are you, someone asked me on my last video, are you pregnant? Oh my gosh. And I want it to be like, I wish, but I just said, no, I'm not. Yeah. But if you come across content like yours, like mine, not comparing the two, but just faith content in general.

That means that you had to have engaged with it at some. I don't just randomly come across, you know, someone. So it's like, you know, half the time they follow. Yes. Why are you following if you find out. And then there was a time recently. I did a photo with the patriarch of Constantinople recently, like the way and I posted it.

And I was just waiting for people to be angry, right? Because he's Orthodox. I'm like, just waiting. And so someone commented, and he might be, watching so hi um what's with bishops hats because there was also like catholic bishops oh what's with bishops hats and jews hats is that just a coincidence and i was like you bastard right like i was like because it's the jew thing you know and i'm dealing with PTSD ready i wrote back and i and i said something so and i meant it but i was like look i know that the internet can be this is what

i wrote i was like giving him a lecture i know the internet can be a cynical place dude but you don't have to participate in it so like it could be much worse Like that's a fair and he wrote back and then someone else wrote back it's just a question bro and I'm like and I was like it's not a question I know what he's doing talking about the freaking keeper and the guy wrote back and went I'm so sorry it really was just a question And I'm like and I had the grace in that moment to be like it looks like I'm the cynical one please forgive me That's really hard to do that is a hilarious interaction Yeah, I think it's good just to kind of a shiqarrowing I think it's good just to kind of a that everyone's joking.

Because someone the other day, it's wild. It's not just wild the comments people post, but it's wild the responses, the awful, uncharitable responses that come from my head. Someone's like, you guys both look like boomers. And I was like, you son of a bitch. I know that, but you don't have to say that. And so I wanted to respond, have you seen your profile? Like something stupid.

And of course I didn't. So instead I just wrote back, okay. And he wrote back, I'm sorry if that sounded weird. I love you guys. I just, I also look like, and I'm like, why do I? No, every time. The secret is to take everything as a joke. That's actually perfect advice.

Take everything as a joke and respond to it. Because often it is. Yeah. Like I had Peter Crave done and someone said, it's Dr. Peter Crave, show some respect. But he spelled respect, R-E-S-P-E-K-T. And so I just let it go and someone else was getting upset with him. He's like, dude, it was a joke. But I'm like, it's not his fault for not knowing it's a joke.

Text is tone deaf. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a much more fun way. to live is taking it as a joke that if you would have asked my approach is completely different. Are you pregnant? Yeah.

What? L-O-L. I don't know how to take that as a joke, but yeah. So funny. No. This is another thing I actually took to confession was it's just so many mean comments. And it's not like, oh, you suck, you're ugly. But mean comments about the faith that, again, I feel so protective of, especially

when you first kind of start posting and you start getting these things that again I took it to confession I said and I remember sitting there I'm like father Mike forget it I need to know how you deal with your family who's not you know Catholic or who's not how do you deal with it like completely just I want to understand you are you saying like what how good is your advice you're not dealing with is that No, like, how do you deal with people who don't believe what you believe, but then judge you for what you believe or misrepresent? What was the Father Mike bit? I missed that.

Oh, I'm sorry. I went to, I'm close with my priest at my parish. Oh, I thought you meant Father Mike Schmitz. Oh, I am not on a first name basis with Father Mike Schmitz. He did send my name, though, in one of his homilies. Best day of my life. I'm not to put it in my Instagram bio. He said, Annamunli, a woman on the internet.

That's going to be fun. I'm going to put on a shirt. Real quick, I have to tell you this. meeting the patriarch of Constantinople and the Bith bishop of Vilnoos, Lithuania, introduces me and says, he's a podcaster. And I'm like, oh, gosh, I am a podcaster. And to be fair, there is nothing else he could have said that would have been more impressive. But I was like, author, Catholic speaker.

I would have gone with author. I love that. Podcaster, as if the patriarch, oh, can we meet, can we talk? Give me tips. Okay, Father Mike. So I'm telling Father Mike, how do you deal with people who don't respect your, I can deal with differing. You know, if you're Protestant, if you're this, if you're that, if you're whatever, whatever, that's fine. Like, I'm right, not because I'm right, because I'm with the right side.

So I'm telling you, how do you not get angry? How am I supposed to respond to these comments? They're eating me up inside. And he was like, well, why don't you think about it? the people watching. Don't think about the person your commenting. So that's how I approach everything. Like, I'm going to respond to this comment that's clearly not asked in good faith, that's clearly misrepresenting our faith. And I'll respond to it for all the people watching who may be like, huh, I guess that is what Catholics believe. It's like, no, no, actually, that's not what we

believe because of X, Y, Z. Yeah. You know, and they don't, they're not actually asking to get me to answer, which almost makes it even better. It's like, you expect to be like, get off my page, you heretic. No. It's like, oh, Mary, let me tell you about her. And so anybody who's reading can take that away. So that's how I, and that's how I approach everything, really. How can, how can for the people, you know, whether it's my apologetics style type videos, like, yeah, I'm answering the person, of course. They're not listening to anything I say. They're not. So I'm going to response for their followers or my followers who saw it and maybe have questions about it. So it's...

Do you find that there is truth to YouTube being a male dominated platform? I think so. Is it? Yeah, I think so. Men have, forgive me, men have natural authority. They just do. They command authority. And it's just in their presence and the way they speak.

But so why would that? Because, I mean... How does that apply to YouTube? Because I was about to say, I think Instagram is pretty, probably female dominated, is it? I don't think in the... Let's do it again. Chat it.

Chat it up now. I'll take my next sip of wine. Is there more females than males? I could have asked this and much more. There are no male like influencers. What does that mean? Well, that I know. Yes, but only slightly.

Recent estimates on Instagram's global user base, women making up 50 to 55. Oh, okay. What about? Okay, that's interesting. What about YouTube? definitely male. Yeah. Because I had a woman reach out to me who was trying to build a channel and I said,

and she was having no luck on YouTube. Well, not as much like as she would have liked. And she was great. And I said, well, have you, why don't you just try on Instagram? Because it seems like you've got stuff. Globally, YouTube is slightly male. Isn't that really interesting? Wow.

54% male, 46% female. Yeah. I mean, when you're making videos and you're speaking, I mean, automatically, when you're talking about anything, like you're more likely than not going to be looked at as an expert, whether you are or you're not. If you're speaking on something,

and it's not, you know, just like a little story time telling, you know, something about your personal life. If you're speaking about a topic, there's this level of authority and kind of expertise. It's kind of built into it.

Yeah. And so for me, that's why I think men have more success in that area because even, you could agree with it or not, but that's just how. Okay. Also, men like to argue and be, they're like fighting.

And I think they're men arguing is way different than women arguing. Yeah. Isn't that funny? I would much rather watch men arguing. When I see, like, my husband and even if it's like a friend going back and forth about something, it's... Less shrill. Yeah, it's so... Maybe more aggressive in a way that's not pleasant, but less shrill.

But it's not, like, it's not emotional. It's not dramatic. It's not, it's very, I can think of at least four very emotional male YouTubers who will go unnamed, but that's okay. Yeah, I can too actually. So what kind of, what's your plan? For, I don't know, your channel. Do you have a plan? I don't have a plan.

You wake up every day and think of a new thing to post or? Yeah, I, so for the, you know, I try and do like themes. I love themes, which they don't like perform the best. This is an 832 part series On literally day one The theme still perform the best But I just feel like that's What I want to do is I want

I want to create this like Okay, you're Catholic, now what? Like that's what I want to do Like somebody either converts, reverts Whatever it may be, it's like Okay, now what? So that's what I want them to be able to find on my channel You know like now what?

Praying the rosary like why or how And not just this like rage Beatty, like, let me debunk all this, let me react to all these videos. Like, I want it to be true value that can be used in 10 years from now. But I don't know where that, I don't know what that looks like. I don't, I don't know where it'll go. If the Lord allows me to continue it. Have you done a video on how to come up with a prayer rule or like a prayer life?

Yeah, but like an actual, every day I do X, Y, Z. No. There you go. Thank you. You don't have to, but I just, how did you do that? How did you develop a prayer? My husband, that guy. Bloody guy.

We should have had a counter. We should, every time he mentioned. Every time he mentioned Joe or your husband. No, you know, he used to do the Angelus. I'm like, you're so intense. Yeah. Who cares? Uh-huh.

The shoes. Literally. Whatever. But, yeah, and now it's funny because when we were on vacation a couple weeks ago, and I was like, yeah, I'm going to go pray the road. or, you know, the kids, I forget what the kids were doing, but I was like, I'm going to sneak out and go pray the rose. He's like, oh my gosh, I haven't prayed in a week. And I'm like, well, I'm going to go do mine. But it's just, it's having a marriage like that where it's so complimentary, I think is, is, it's really helped my spiritual.

I can't really speak to, but I do, I do, I do like, you know, when I do videos on certain saints or whatever, I'll be like, did you know that. He'd be like, no, I didn't know. You're welcome. Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons why the man should be initiating the prayer life of his family. But one of those reasons that's, I think, practical is there's something you shouldn't make your wife be the one instigating things that the children are going to push back against. I mean, I don't mean to assume that they're going to push back against it. But it's sort of like discipline.

Like I should want to discipline my children, not saying that my wife doesn't. but I should want to take I should want to be the unpopular one and not make her do that like could you please talk to my son like that's so lame and so whenever whenever I come here for like a week a month to do these recordings my wife will they they she's like we got a deck it in we got a deck it in tonight you know but when I'm there I'm like get up sit down here we go and it's we definitely do it it's probably a temperament thing too yeah you know she's a bit more lucy goosey. But in a way that I need. Right. Because I'm melancholic and it would be awful if I was with someone like me. I'm very, um, it's so funny. Someone like you. What I mean is like I'm very, I think I'm hard on myself.

And I, uh, if I fail at something, I kind of, oh, like, what's, I got to get this right. Come on. Let's, you know, whereas I'm like, it's fine. Like you did it in bed and fell asleep. Bet it'll count. Like that kind of thing. Yeah. And she's not wrong, I guess.

I don't know. Maybe she, maybe she needs me to make her a bit more. Yeah, it's a little give and take, a little give and take. Yeah, I'm a little, my husband sometimes called me like a nervous bird. Like I'm a, you know, like turkeys when they're going to get at Thanksgiving. Is he more chill? Yes, yes. And it's just, it's great because he kind of gives me that piece that I just kind of don't have an alienly in myself.

I love how you talk about your husband, by the way. It's very beautiful. Oh, I'm so glad. Yeah. It's taken a, it's interesting because I don't consider myself, you know, feminist, anti-femin. I just, like, I just. Can I just love my husband and my children? Like, I like, I like, you know, gross.

It's not yelling at somebody. Yeah, I just, I want to live in peace and harmony. And my husband is that peace in harmony. And he leads us to the peace that is in our faith. And I have found my, like, like your book, you know, my refuge. in my faith and I wouldn't trade my faith for anything you know if it was between

another baby and your faith I'm not trading it you know whatever it is like my solace everything flows from my faith but he's the one who got me to that point and without him I'd be in a cult probably

who knows what's that line from the office where creeds like you have more fun as a follower. You make more money as a leader. I don't know if you have it. It was filmed in Scranton. That's where my husband's family is from. Oh, really? Yeah. I went to Scranton and gave a talk there. Yeah. And then they said, do you want to go to, is it Paul Richards? Is that the name of the pub? Oh gosh. There's like 80 pubs because it's full of Irish people. That's true. But I think it's poor riches. Let's go with that in the show, right? I'm like, oh, I would love that. So there is a poor Richards in Scranton, but it's not the poor Richards in the show. It's like false advertising. Because they film

in California. They filmed it in California. False advertising. So I went there and I'm like, this says, it's not it. And it was attached to a bowling alley. I was very disappointed. Oh, that's a killing of a dream. Yeah. We were so excited for that. Yeah, we've been to Scrant. They have a great St. Patrick's Day parade. Yeah. Fantastic. Did you say your folks, your birth parents are from Venezuela? I was born there, but my birth parents are from Syria. Oh, how cool. So I'm Syrian. So people are like you look Italian. Yeah.

I'm Syrian. Have you ever been to Syria or Venezuela? I was born in Venezuela. I was born in Venezuela. Yeah. Have you been back? No, I've been there. I was there for seven years.

Spanish is actually my first language. Oh, cool. And then we moved. Yeah. I mean, have you considered starting a Spanish YouTube channel? I have. I get, I think that's the number one request I get. I actually posted the Hail Mary in Spanish a couple days ago.

And it was, please do more. I'm like, I don't have the time. Can you speak like with ease in Spanish? Yeah, it would require a little more. Yeah. A thought. Organization or something. Yeah.

Because there's so many Protestants taking Catholics out of the church in Spanish-speaking countries. Yeah. It's, it's no pressure. Do it. Do it. Yeah. Well, once I, what I always say, this is like my famous line. Once I don't have my nine to five, then I'll really be able to.

focus on that. Are you hoping to move away from that? That would be absolutely amazing, but I don't think I'll ever pull the trigger myself. Like, I'll have to be laid off. Like, I will overwork myself to the point of exhaustion. I didn't even know you had a nine to five. Do you like your job? Yeah. Were you getting trouble if we talk about your job? No, no. I, I, well, do you get in talk about, get in trouble for talking about wanting to quit your job? Because that's what we're doing. I've been, so actually, I worked for, I work in the fraud regulatory department at a, financial institution. And they were downsizing our department.

For the last two years, they've been, you know, I think we started with about seven, eight hundred people in our department. They slowly, I made it down to the last seven. And you're like,

come on. And I'm like, I just don't want to make the decision myself. Like I lay me off. And not, I don't want to be laid off, but it's like if somebody else. Would your husband like you to quit?

Do you like how I'm getting into the personal parts of your life? No, get into it. He would, he, he would be. He would be. I think he kind of wants that chapter to be over, mostly because I am so strapped for time sometimes that I'm like, oh, sweetie, like, I really want to talk to you in the car, but I have to edit this video really quick. And then we can chat.

And then by the time, you know, I'm done, it's like, oh, we're here. Yeah, yeah. Thanks, sweetie. That's funny. My wife said to me, this is about a year ago, she's like, I feel like you just want to live in the woods. And she was upset with me. And me to have, like, no shoes on and to be cooking for you and you come home and we all run up and greet you. And like, that is exactly what I want.

Everything you just said is what you should be trying harder to be. Please. You are failing in as much as you don't appropriate that. Correct. Great job reading your husband. You got it. You got exactly what I want. Oh, that does sound good.

That does sound. Why don't... Just like a woods bit. Well, you should be able to do this just remotely. Like, don't tell the big guys, you know, but... Yeah. Just recreate this somewhere else. Well, they built this set.

This is white. I don't know why they couldn't find any useful person in Nashville, but they built this in L.A. And then they shipped the set over and put it together here. That doesn't, this is my first time in Nashville. Okay, you're going to find three things. I'm getting increasingly bitter about them. You're going to find a lot of cowboy hats. I walk through the airport.

I hate it so much. The Opry store. I've decided, I've just made this decision. You're allowed to have a cowboy hat if you have a horse. If you don't have a horse, you may not have one. I agree. It's like you cannot have a kilt unless you are. or your father were from Scotland.

Okay, yes. Even if you were born here, that's okay. Your father's Scottish, I'll allow you to wear it. You're going to find a lot of Bachelorette parties. Plain was full of them. It's awful. I've been here for 17 minutes exactly, and I've seen both of those things. What's the third one?

Country music. Oh, I'm a fan. I walked by somebody playing the guitar. I used to be until I started hearing it all the time. And it's funny because it sounds sexist, but there's something gross about just hordes of silly, loud, screechy women. And I'm like, I just can't handle these. But then I thought, are you talking about The Bachelor at parties?

Yes. I was like, what country do that? But I would feel the same way if it were a group of loud, silly, you know, whenever you put a group of people together partying, it's annoying. It's annoying. It's annoying in any context. But there's a different type of annoyance. Both are equally annoying.

You get a group of women being loud and shrill and drinking Chardonnay or fellas drinking the beer and both are annoying. Yeah, they're. Equally. But I'm also old and I find everything annoying. No, I think increasingly. The older you get, the more annoyed, you know, six, seven years ago, my husband would have loved any of a bachelor, a bachelor, whatever. And now it's everything.

Modern music. I mean, it's so much work. I hate music. I can't. If I go into a restaurant and they're playing music, I'm offended. If it's classical music, I'm good. Do you have a flashlight in the restaurant yet? Are you one of those yet?

When you go to like a dim light and you can turn on your, like on your iPhone? on the flashlight because you can't read the menu because it's so dimly lit. Oh, no, I'm not there yet. Oh, okay. I'm there. It's interesting. These are increasingly necessary. Your eyes went a little.

They're increasingly necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I try to do this and then I realize, oh, I actually need them. No, I'm like almost legally blind, I feel. I'm a negative seven prescription on both, both, both of my eyes. So without them.

Contact lenses are amazing. Quick, uh, side note. Sure. I think it's unbelievable that I have to pay $700 for contacts when it's a disability that I can't see without context. Like it's a, I need glasses or context to see that is not my fault. It puts me in danger. You don't want me behind a car if I don't have contacts. But I have $1,000 for glasses, $800 for contacts.

Can you not just, I mean, what about health insurance? Doesn't that cover? Yeah, I have a great health insurance that covers like this 15% blah, blah, blah. What do you want? People just to give you stuff for free? Yes. Because you're disabled? Like, sorry, I can't see.

God made my eyes all blurry. It's so, that's like my biggest pet peeve. Have you been like this, what, having to pay for things that people have to make for you? That I don't get free stuff, Matt. Yeah, that bothers me. It's the eye. It's so expensive. It's so expensive.

Are they easy to lose? We've reached the bottom of the barrel of the interview. Everyone knows that. We are scraping the bottom. This is my second glass of wine. Well, that's where you'll get my real hot taste. Let me tell you about contact.

About my husband, Joe. I remember being in a plane once, I had those two little ear pods in, and they were kind of expensive. They were like the boss earpods, so I was trying to treat them really well. But as we were taking off, it dropped and rolled.

Oh, no. I'm too prideful to have to go to, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. Do you have a, can you look for a little black thing? No way. So I'm like, oh, well, that's, I'll never have them. I'd go to the bathroom and just look down. If I didn't see it, they're gone forever.

Your eye, contact lenses, yeah. Is that what you mean? Oh, I meant, I meant that. But also, I've never lost. Contact lenses are invisible. They don't pop out, like, unless you take them out. I've never had one just fall out. Yeah, but what happens?

So when you take them off, it's like old ladies fake teeth where you put them in a glass of water? What are you do? They're in these little cups in my. Oh, yeah, like, I've seen that. Contact, yeah. Yeah. You don't wear contacts, but you wear glasses? I need these primarily for reading, but I'm getting to the point where things are way.

So these are bif, not bifocus, but progressive. Yes, yeah. We're like, yeah. Okay, another question that I'm actually interested in. It sounds like I'm just trying to kill time, but I actually am interested. Have you ever used contacts with different colors in them? No. Is that a thing people still do?

That is a thing. Yeah, when I was younger, I begged my mom, like, please let me have blue eyes. Just like, no. No one we believe you. But no, you can always tell now. I mean, well, now they're probably a little more natural, but I've never used them. But they, I feel like contacts change my color, like, because they have a light, like, hue to them. Okay.

Like, you can see the little. Yeah. So I feel like, I don't know. So when you look at a contact lens that, let's say, is going to pretend you have blue eyes. Is there just like, does it look like that? Does it look like a blue eyeball? No, it just looks like this little plastic dome with a little blue. That's what I mean.

Yeah. Yeah. Just a little, but it's a very light blue. Yeah, I can't think of anything more gross than having to stick those things into my eyes. Oh, I could do it with my, I was going to say eyes closed, but that wouldn't work. I could do it upside down. It's just like, I don't need water. I just, and they're out.

But it's insane. It's weird. Well, what else you talk about is we wrap up. I'll have one more drink and then we'll, oh, it's a great sound. It's great. I wonder, will people know that if I serve myself like a little half? more of wine. Because I had...

Who cares? I had two. It's up to you. I don't know. I mean, we have... Or you have the Joe counter and the wine counter. We should. I wish...

I wish I had an editor that was so devoted that we could do a Joe counter. I credit my husband. Yeah. I have to shout him out. My husband. My husband. My husband. My husband.

My husband. My husband. That guy. I'm going to stop mentioning him. My husband. My husband. My husband. My husband.

My husband. My husband. My husband. My husband. Joe. My husband. Joe. My husband.

My husband. husband Joe. So what do you have plan when you get back? Oh, I land's pretty late tonight. Me too. Yeah. And then it's Father's Day. Oh, yeah.

Sunday. What are you doing for Joe? Listen, we're flying back to Florida. I feel like it's not your responsibility. It's not. Kids. What am I doing for Joe? I dedicated a whole podcast to him.

How about give birth to his children? Yeah. Okay. Right. You're welcome. I mentioned him a hundred times. Yeah, dedicated a show. You're welcome.

Well, his name will probably be in the title, so you're welcome. Happy Father's Day. That's it. But no, we're flying back to Florida on Sunday. Is he here? In Pennsylvania? Is Joe here? Not in Nashville.

Oh, well, you said we're flying back. I thought you meant you were flying back to Florida. Oh, we are in, we're visiting family in Pennsylvania. So I flew from Pennsylvania to here. Oh, I see. And you're going back to Pennsylvania. I'm going back to Pennsylvania tonight and then on Sunday back down to Florida. We are really getting into the minutia of things that no one watching cares about anymore.

I wonder. if this means it's because we like are friends now or because it's just like not that interesting to sit down together. Yeah, but I actually find this really interesting. Again, I'm a weird introvert who finds weird things interesting. Well, don't be surprised if the views like tank it, you know, the retention or whatever. Yeah, whatever minute this is. This is. I'm going to go in the back end. It's just going to be a steep vertical. That's enough, guys. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. I don't have, I wish I had questions for you. Well, I'll, come on. Think of one. Well, what's next for Pints? You just did your 10-year anniversary. How long are you going to do this, do you think? Well, that's what I was thinking before I joined Daily Wire. I'm like, do I have to keep doing this forever? Like the patriarch or whatever announcer said, you're a podcaster. So now what? That's it for life?

I don't know I really enjoy it yeah you know I actually as opposed to having to pretend to enjoy it but I actually and especially coming over

to the Daily Wire where all of the minutia and difficult parts of like uploading and figuring out how to make the video live on Spotify and thumbnails

and everything I don't I don't worry about that that's actually my that's like I hate that I hate that part I hated it too I was close to being like Can I do something else?

Yeah. So when they offered the job and just said, you keep doing exactly what you're doing, we'll take care of the rest. And then we will milk you for as much money as we can milk you. I'd sign me up. Sign me up. I have nipples. Can you milk me, Greg? Greg?

Was that Greg? We should stop soon. Do we? Yeah. Was it Greg? Did you ever watch Meet the Parents? Again, not a movie I'm recommending. I'm not a movie watcher, Matt.

God, this interview sucks. What's the best movie you've ever watched? I know. He doesn't listen. He thought I was someone else. You can't, you know what? My favorite movie, A Beautiful Mind. Oh, yeah?

Yeah, I remember that. Such a good one. Russell Crow. I remember being so blown away. Yeah. I was in the theater watching that. Me too. Yeah.

Insane. But that's it. Remember the, did you ever watch? I'm going to say five more movies and you're going to be like, I told you. Um, I see dead people. That movie? I was just going to say, my second favorite is the sixth sense and I don't like horror movies. But I love those plot twists. Yeah.

That blew everyone away. But see, once that's a public famous movie, you can never do that again. Everyone's going to know what. Yeah. Like if we watched that today and had never watched it in the past, we would have been like, okay, I'm pretty sure he's dead. Yeah, no, and it's ruins now. And it's not a movie that can be like, oh my gosh, let's watch the Sixth Sense together. Exactly.

I already know what happens. Yeah. So. I watched a movie, which I want to tell everyone about. It's called Exit 8. I was on the flight coming back from Lithuania. Oh my gosh, what a flex. Yeah.

Hanging out. And I'm like, what's this movie's the Japanese or Korean? I don't know. Same thing. You know, they all look the same. And, uh... Flip left. Make that short.

It was fantastic. I would recommend it to everybody. Exit 8. It was... It's horror, but it's not the kind of awful horror. It's more strange horror. All right. Now I need to see...

You know... Exit 8, Korean or Japanese or something. Let's see. Okay, is it, it's good exit eight. Please watch it. Everybody go watch this movie. Or, listen, wait, I want to ask you, okay, exit eight. The plug is good.

No, but I want to see if it's from Japan. We plugged it. Oh, yeah, now you need to confirm. Japanese, see? Well, you guessed all of that. Korean, Japanese, Indonesian. I got it right. Sure, the fourth suggestion.

I know this is your platform in your interview, but... Where do you get off? What? You said I'm on the rise. What I wanted to ask what your opinion was on the, Monsignor Rosetti. Oh. Because you're talking about horror and like you love horror films.

I heard, I don't know, I haven't looked into it. I saw that he was kicked out of being the exorcist. Yeah, he was pretty much like forced to resign and his, yeah, because of his comments on. Aliens or something? Yeah, that, you know, he believes that some of them are demonic. Demonic? Demonic.

Do you know, I haven't looked at. looked into it. So maybe if I did, I'd have a stronger opinion. I'm not afraid of having a strong opinion on that. I just don't know enough. But I will say this, having worked in this company and having been and having seen what people say about people in this company and me. Oh, yeah. And knowing from the inside that those comments are completely wrong, it's made me kind of skeptical of narratives now around things. Yeah. Yeah. So like, let's say the narrative, he was fired because of his comments on aliens. Right. I'd even hold that. I mean, Maybe. It's like, is that why though?

Yeah, like if they said that. Right. You need the confirmation of that. But I think people like stories and sometimes the stories are way off base. So I don't know anything about it. Do you have an opinion, obviously? No, yeah. I'm like, I'm like Team Rosetti on this one. Just because Montesior just seems to be doing such good work. Was he kind of kicked out by a liberal bishop? Well, then I'm probably on his side.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I just wanted to ask about that just because sometimes, you know, it's interesting about the internet and just being on. social media in general is that sometimes people, they demand you to have strong opinions about take certain stances. And sometimes I'm like, you don't actually want my opinion. You just want me to share your opinion.

You want me to. That's 100% true. And I don't like that. I don't like to be pigeonholed into speak up about this, speak up about that, speak up. No, 100%. Because when I joined Daily Wire, I said, I don't want to be political. Yeah. But then sometimes there are things that intersect with politics.

Like, when Trump posted that image of himself as our blessed Lord, Oh, yeah. I posted an article saying pray for Trump and all blasphemers, right? That really pissed off pro-Trump people. And then there was another point. I think I said why Ted Cruz is wrong about Christian Zionism. And that pissed off another. Oh, yeah.

Like, those are Christian-y things. So sometimes I have opinions. But most of the time, it's not that, oh, you don't want to hear my opinion. It's more like it's so ignorant that I would just sound like everyone else on the internet if I was to share it. So what would I? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, sometimes I'd rather not. And then I always say to people, I think this might be the wine talking because I might have said this a couple hours ago when we started. We can wrap up. All right. Last thought. What was the? But when it comes to online, I always want to urge people to really test the people that you want to follow and learn from is I did say this already. But really.

We'll pretend it's a different point. I'll help you. Go on. Fruits of the spirit is how I judge people. No, I don't think you've said that. Oh, okay. No. Like you, for instance, you have, you're funny, you're sometimes people, oh, that's sexist,

oh, that's, you know, a little aggressive. Oh, that's a little, whatever. But really, like, when you take your body of work as a whole, the fruits of the spirit can be seen throughout, you know, same thing with Trent Horn. Like, when has that guy ever displayed this aggression or rage? Nothing. Once. Once when he was debating destiny.

And it was totally appropriate. He's like, you are an insane person. Did you see that? No. Yeah, he said that. Now I need to look it up. I'm going to try to find it for you. That was the best thing.

I love him so much. Well. No, he is terrific. I would never say that to his face. No, no, of course not. I just typed in you're an insane person with nothing to guide YouTube and it's like six signs you're not crazy. Okay, no, I meant Trent Horn. All right, here we go.

Let's see. No, you're not insane person. No, you're not saying. Oh. That one. You're not saying. Have that looping in the back. I just love that that is like a one second clip.

And probably totally valid. It was valid. No, totally because he was saying that sex with animals wasn't necessarily immoral. So I'm like, yeah, if there was ever a time to tell poor death. You are an insane person. Yeah. All right. How long do you think that was?

What? You were me talking? Yeah. Two hours and ten minutes and two. and two seconds, three seconds, four seconds, five seconds. What if you just did that until three? Until three. Thank you so much for taking the time.

I didn't realize you were with your family in Pennsylvania, so thanks for taking the time. I know it's so annoying to get on planes. Just for me, because I'm old and everything's annoying now. Thank you. And say thanks to your husband for the lovely cigar. I will. No, thank you for having me. I am beyond honored, so thank you so much.

It was great. Good.