Pints With Aquinas - Navigating the Crises Facing the Catholic Church and Society w/ Fr. Gerald Murray & Diane Montagna

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

Unless you've been living under a rock, you're bound to be aware of various crisis the Church is facing today. How can the laity navigate these crises? In today's episode, I interview Fr. Gerald Murray and Diane Montagna, authors of the new book "Calming the Storm: Navigating the Crises Facing the Catholic Church and Society," to talk about this very subject. Fr. Murray, Diane and I discuss: - The German bishops who are pushing progressing agendas, including homosexuality - What's going on with Pope Francis - If it's right to criticize Church leadership - And more!   SPONSORS Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/ Exodus 90: http://exoduslent.com/Matt  GIVING  https://pintswithaquinas.com/support/  This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer co-producer of the show. LINKS Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd Gab: https://gab.com/mattfradd Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/pintswithaquinas MY BOOKS Get my NEW book "How To Be Happy: Saint Thomas' Secret To A Good Life," out now! Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT  Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

And we are live. Are we live live? Do you want to just make sure you can hear us all coming through loud and clear in the headphoneies? So welcome to this very strange interview, I guess very we'll see hopefully won't be too strange Anyway, father Gerald Murray and Diane Montagna. Say I say that Montagna. Oh, that sounds way better than how I said it The nice thing about being Australian is when I screw up something and people correct me, I'm like, oh no, that's just how we say in Australia. But Montagna. Well, it's lovely to have you on the show. Congratulations on your new book that just came out on Friday. Can you put a link to this in the description

so people can see it at some point? Calming the Storm, Navigating the Crises Facing the Catholic Church and Society. I guess I want to begin by saying something I set off air, and that is whenever I address the crises in the Church, there's someone, usually someone actually a friend of mine, quite prominent, who will email me and say, look, stick to what you're good at, stick to what the Catechism teaches, the beauty of the Church, don't be wading into these waters. And that rattled me at first, you know, I thought, well maybe he's right. But the more I thought about it, I thought,

look, there are a lot of good people who want to become Catholic or who want to remain Catholic, but find it difficult given the scandals that are erupting at a Rome and everywhere else. So to not address this seems to be not the right response. I presume you get this sort of objection. Yes we do because some people are you know allergic to controversy or they say it's it or others say it doesn't look good if you're criticizing the leadership. But the response to that is that you know the Lord told us that you know if the world has hated you know that they hated me before. In other words there will be opposition from worldliness in you know if the world has hated you know that it hated me before. In other words, there will be opposition from worldliness in, you know, outside the church, but also inside the

church. So we talk about that. And defending the faith is not something negative. It's actually a positive duty, you know, because the faith is based on believing in set of doctrines that the Lord handed over to the apostles. if those doctrines are being rejected, particularly by those with the role of teaching, we have to say those teachers are not living up to their duty. So it's not a negative thing in my opinion, it's actually contributes to the welfare of the Church. Yeah, also the the title of the book is Calming the Storm. And one has to acknowledge if one if one if one wants true peace, and true calm, then one has to acknowledge that there is a storm. Many people realize that

there's a storm and confusion in the church, and they don't know quite how to navigate that. It causes a lot of disturbance to a lot of souls, and much better to look at things in a realistic way To try to face them head-on in a peaceful and calm manner than to pretend that they don't exist. We're adults I mean, we're not we're not children and we're called to be well-informed Catholics the laity are called and have a duty to be well-informed well-educated and to to be well informed, well educated, and to be in the church. We talk a lot about active participation. The laity are called to that.

And in order to act well, one has to realize the situation in the church. So I don't see any problem with talking about what's going on in the family. It says calming the storm, not fixing the problems. Yes. And presumably that storm, what does that mean? What does storm mean in that title? Does that mean sort of our emotional response to the chaos unraveling around us in society and in the church? Well, storm has

social application, the term really does apply in the life of the church. There's strife, there's upsetness, we have shepherds teaching bad things, we have people who are parting from the life of the church because they think they're doing something bold and new and good, so we have to tell people that there is a storm when people take the teaching of Christ and make it optional. There's also the interior storm of Catholics who wonder is the faith that I learned as a child, the same faith that I have to believe in now, or is the church changing, so we want to address that. There's also a certain sense in which the storm is just the everlasting phenomenon of a fallen human race. So, you know, the sins and temptation will exist whether everybody's Orthodox or whether

they're heterodox. In other words, if Catholics believe all the same thing, it doesn't mean there won't be a lot of sinning going on. The real problem becomes when people try to redefine the nature of sin, and that's where, I think, one of our particular challenges today. Yeah, where are we seeing that right now? We saw it from some of the German cardinals, but I presume you've done a deep dive into this. So what's this push to kind of normalize

or virtualize, not a word, homosexual acts and fornication and things like this? Right, that's one of the main areas of Catholic descent by church leadership. And it's in the last six months we've had the Cardinal of Luxembourg, Cardinal Hollerich, say in an interview that the Catholic Church is teaching homosexuality is wrong. And he's the general relator of the synod, of the upcoming synod of bishops. Well, a synod that's underway, but that will have its Rome meeting in 2023. And this is a cardinal who's in effect the head of that, saying that the teaching of the church is wrong. Great.

Yeah, no. And he's not the only one. He's not the only one. You had Cardinal Marx, known as rather conservative up to the point when he was made a cardinal and then was president of the German Bishops Conference has Come out with a series of strange statements and actions in the past few months most recently Calling for a change in the catechism of the Catholic Church particularly regarding homosexuality and homosexual acts he He is accompanied by his colleague and Bishop Betzing, who has made similar statements. But this isn't really...

Betzing is the president of the Bishops' Conference of Germany. He's the leading bishop now among the German hierarchy. Yes. So, but this isn't really, it's not really new. It's, it's accelerating in the past few months. But if you look back for the over the past several years, whether it was the family synod, there was already an attempt to through the working document called the instrumentum laboris, which is part of the working document for each synod. Each synod has one. One thing's of the youth synod that happened, it didn't get a lot of attention, but there were some attempts there through the documents

and through certain initiatives and people involved to introduce a normalization of homosexuality. I remember too, the UCAT seemed to, uh, look favorably or at least more favorably on masturbation. And I'm sure if you remember that from the UCAT, I don't know. I don't have a vague remembrance of that, but that, okay, sorry. Yeah, I don't know. So I, but it seems as though in the months, and even since we, we, we did the original interviews for the book, it's accelerating

more and more and really reaching a critical point, I would say. But the good thing is that you also have some of the cardinals and bishops of the church who are now beginning to go on the offense against this and to address these statements made, particularly by the German bishops. So you had the- How many bishops are doing that right now? Because I saw a number of you there. Well, you had a letter, you had a letter that came out last week, an open letter, I believe, to the German bishops.

And it was, at that point, it was signed by 70 prelates, so bishops and cardinals, including Cardinal Pell from your native land, Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Napier from South Africa, Cardinal Napier, Cardinal Lorenzi from Africa as well. So to get 70 prelates together to stand up and more of sign sense. So that I think the faithful will find that so heartening because one of the most difficult things I think for the normal lay person who is tuned in to what's going on in the church, perhaps confused or perhaps not confused and is seeing things quite clearly,

that for the lay faithful, I think, is painful enough or difficult enough, but not seeing the shepherds of the church and seeing no one care enough to stand up. So this, I think that this open letter from the Seventy Prelates and now more than that, will be very heartening for the faithful, and I hope that they continue. It's so important. I remember when I was a teenager, very much wanting to fornicate and not believe the doctrines of Christianity, was just, I think I used the statement, the banal statement of some priest who said, as long as you're in love, as my kind of green light. Not that I needed one, but I sort of

justified my actions by appealing to him. All the more if you've got Cardinals teaching this filth. Yes, exactly. Yeah, and Cardinal Hollerich, as Diane mentioned, is the general relator of the Synod, which means he's the one responsible for producing the document. So the Synod on Synodality, which is a two-year process which will have its fulfillment in October of 2023,

is now turning into the Syn sin of homosexuality because the guy who's going to write the document is telling us we've got to make sure that the teaching is changed. Now this is outrageous in the highest degree because it's a betrayal of the Church's teaching therefore it's a betrayal of Christ and it's being carried on by people in leadership roles who took oaths to uphold the very teaching and You know as we point out in the book The only reason people listen to them is because they're people of authority

If holler it were a banker in Luxembourg and said there's no one would no one pay attention to him. Yeah Yeah, so in other words they are this is the ultimate clericalism Using the position of authority that the church has given you to undermine the church Saying we know better than Christ and the Apostles. What is important for you to believe? This is betrayal and subversion and the sad thing is it's being extensively embraced in Northern European circles, so it is good, as Diane pointed out, that cardinals from a vast range of countries are now saying, no, this has to stop. Yeah. Is it relatively new, the boldness on part of these cardinals? Not to say we could perhaps

rethink how we phrase, but no, the Church's teaching is wrong. I mean, from my understanding, not even Father James Martin has yet come out and said that strongly. Well, he recently tweeted out that... He's more subtle, but... Well, no, but he tweeted out, you know, it's often said, hate the sin, love the sinner. Yes. We need to rethink that because... That's a quinus, a quinus. Of course. Essentially said that, yeah. Yes. But in Father Martin's tweet, which I'm paraphrasing, he said, how can, we have to rethink that because how can someone's love be viewed as sinful? And the answer is disordered love involving the misuse of the sexual faculty is in fact

not real love. I find that stuff more frustrating than the Cardinals. Because at least the Cardinals are saying what they think. When you get the sense that people aren't saying what they think, but they're being sneaky and sly about it. It's just gross. Well, he's also said he looks forward to the day when people, you know, two homosexuals can enjoy a blessing or, you know, getting married. He said that in so many words. OK.

Others, we criticize for them. I criticize father Martin in the book Several times well and based on his book building a bridge in which he says the catechisms teaching on the in inherent disordered nature of homosexual attraction That this is he calls that hateful or he calls it a cruel. He says there's cruelty in the catechism So, of course if something is cruel, it's it's wrong. So he's basically the catechism is wrong But using it in diplomatic language

I'll be interested to see whether he rebukes Marx and Hollerich for their statement because he's also said elsewhere I support the teaching of the church. I'll bet you a hundred bucks he doesn't. I won't take I will not take the bet because I'll probably lose. Is he in New York? Where is mine? Yes, he's based in New York City. What are your interactions like? I've met him on a few occasions, we know each other from just a few occasions, but I haven't talked to him in a number of years and I wrote a critical review in the National Catholic Register of his book and they never publicly that I saw commented on even though he commented on other reviews. Father Paul Mankowski of God

rest his soul, he wrote a devastating critique of building a bridge by Father Martin and that was published in First Things. So yeah, Father Martin is a publicist for homosexual normalization in the church and then beyond it because the whole bisexual, transsexual thing he's embraced. So yeah, he's the American version of the movement in Europe that we're seeing among the Germansans and it is you know devastating because it's leading people into sin there's no no two ways explain otherwise if you don't think it's a send a commit sodomy and you encourage people to do it

working for the other side you're not working for christ part of this you said the acceleration i think that's part of what sort of work in a sub the other the other thing seems to be like You know, part of this, you said the acceleration, I think that's part of what's sort of woken us up. The other thing seems to be like the things that Pope Francis has said and done. It felt like we were kind of born, I was, into this church and into this narrative as I converted to Catholicism, that we had all these great popes and my mind only went back as far as, you know, Pope Paul VI who condemned contraception, then you got John Paul II, the enemy of communism, then you got Pope Benedict,

and it just took us a long time to wake up to the fact that, okay, maybe there can be bad popes, and maybe it's okay to say that. And when you would say it, you'd get a lot of criticism from good Catholics, who I think had a right affection and deference to the Holy Father. But the other thing is,

I worked as a Catholic apologist at Catholic Answers, and the first thing we would say to everybody who would question people infallibility is that lovely line, people infallibility doesn't mean impeccability, and popes can be sinners and popes can be wrong. And then as soon as one was wrong, we got attacked for saying that. So it was kind of very confusing to our Protestant friends. How... Exactly, because it seems as though sometimes you find that the habit of saying, oh, we can't say anything, he's the pope, we just have to trust the Holy Spirit. Of course, we have to trust the Holy Spirit. But that attitude can sometimes become a caricature of what our Protestant brethren think that we believe about the pope, that is,

that we worship the pope, that every, that he's an oracle in every word that comes out of his mouth, whether it's, you know, thousands of feet up in the, during the in-flight press conference, or on other occasions in an interview, for instance, that that is all gospel, and that's simply, that's simply not what we believe. And we can have all of the respect in the world for his person and particularly for his office. But we shouldn't play also for ecumenism. We shouldn't play into the very caricatures of that that have been created over the years. How do we because I want to get to how things could be good and getting better.

Yeah. But let's stick in the mud for a bit. Yes. What are some things that you think Pope Francis has done that rightly need to be addressed by priests and cardinals? The faithful, maybe. Sure. OK, one of them is he said that there should be civil unions for homosexuals. He said there shouldn't be marriage because marriage is only between a man and woman, but there should be civil unions. So the Pope is encouraging governments to give legal recognition and benefits to two people who are united in the purpose of committing mortal sin in

a caricature of marriage. Now Pope Johnava second taught the exact opposite and uh... that is support now pope francis didn't issue a document from rome to say he said in the course of an interview but he said it twice as as far as i can remember uh... this is wrong uh... this is encouraging people to engage in homosexual activity

and that's not the job of any shepherd so that is something that is seriously wrong and it's very regrettable it's a it's a false view of compassion which is to tell people I know you're involved in sin but you know we're gonna give you some benefits so that you don't feel too bad about it mmm no that's completely wrong other than the sexual issue are there other things that he's done or said that you think need to be addressed? You know, there are a couple of other things. He signed the Abu Dhabi statement with the imam, in which statement it said, God wills all religions. As he wills the diversity of language and of sex, male and female, and cultures, so he wills the diversity of religions.

This contradicts revealed teaching. And he corrected that. He, well, during a Wednesday general audience, he noted that he was referring to the permissive will of God, rather than God's active will. Well, that's a good clarification. It's nice to see. Yes, but it happens during a Wednesday general audience, which, and the document is never amended, which it could easily be.

The document is what he signed, and then also, I mean, is it the permissive will of God that there be a diversity of sexes? No, I mean, that's the positive will of God. So you have to sort out which is the positive and which is... And people may not even understand the distinction between, you know, the active will of God and the passive will. God permits things to happen, but doesn't will them to happen. You know, I thought immediately when you brought up that statement about John Paul II, who kissed the Quran publicly. That seems like a scandalous thing to do, to kiss a heretical book. So I don't recommend doing it, but he did it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is just because we have problems in the church now. It doesn't mean that the past two pontificates were without problems.

I think that's what it's doing in seeing that this pontificate isn't, you know, what do you say? Yeah. The impeccable. It allows us then to look back without fear to say, okay, there are certain things that Benedict's done and John Paul's done and everybody's done that, okay, yeah, that was regrettable. Whereas maybe we were under this illusion that we actually had to look at upon all of it that was just sort of infallible. Well, and you have to make distinctions because decisions of governance in the church are

different than doctrinal pronouncements So, you know a pope, you know, John Paul the second for instance Didn't believe the accusation against Cardinal McCarrick and did not take action against him Benedict did believe them, but he took private action and Cardinal Burke and myself have said You can't admit private canonical penalties for crimes that are you know somewhat known that's not how you'd act that's not what canon law says so that was a problem yeah Pope Francis the teaching in Morris Letizia about the reception of sacraments by some people who are involved in adulterous second unions I don't believe that's correct John Paul

the second again and Benedict taught the exact opposite. And the same goes for the death penalty. You know Pope Francis changed the catechism. He said now the death penalty is inadmissible, which is not a doctrinal category in theology. And inadmissible doesn't in and of itself mean that it's inherently wrong just means it cannot be used which could be better based on circumstances on the other hand his commentary over the years about the death penalty is he calls it basically an offense against human dignity the any any offense against human dignity is sinful therefore the capital punishment church always does the exact opposite

You affirm someone's dignity when you hold them responsible for their actions and for gravely sinful actions God in the Old Testament laid down the death penalty So it can't be that the death penalty is inherently immoral, otherwise God himself falls under that accusation. We all have to die because of the consequence of sin. Sin is death. Now, as people will note, there's a big hostility in Western liberal elites to the use of the death penalty.

That hostility is not generalized in the United States, and I think that's due to the fact that there's a Protestant culture here which takes the United States, and I think that's due to the fact that it's a Protestant culture here, which takes the Bible seriously, and there's no problem with the death penalty in the Bible. It's viewed as an appropriate punishment. So on one end of the spectrum, we've got people who say you should never criticize the Holy Father, you should essentially be an apologist for whatever he happens to do and say, but then on the other spectrum, we've got people who seem to speak continually, disrespectfully about the Holy Father. Help us see.

The comment box is the first place to be. Yeah, those are the lowest form of human discourse. I chose to stop reading them months ago. But yeah, like where is this line? Because none of us wanna be criticizing the Holy Father in a way, I hope we don't, in a way that's disrespectful to him or his office or that leads others to take the papacy less seriously.

Nor do I think it's important... well, I don't know, what do you think about that? Well, I'll start and I'll throw it to Diane, but number one, charity in all things, you know, we should always be charitable about those we disagree with. And the personal failings of the Pope have nothing to do with the fact that he's holding that office and he has a duty to teach. So we should leave aside any comments about his personal behavior or things we find unacceptable. We may not agree with it, but there's no point in bringing it up, you know, how he does certain things. But when he teaches in ways that are wrong, when he, for instance, violates rubrics that are important,

you know, the other day he can celebrate at mass wearing no vestments. And this was kind of shocking because that's a liturgical abuse. Shouldn't do that, you know, it encourages others to do that. Yeah, so... Yeah, it reminds me of priests, you know, out of the... I don't mean to paint them all with a broad brush, but the 60s and 70s who would kind of celebrate just with their stall and it's kind of all very hippie-ish. Yeah, well... That's what it encourages.

One of the crises in the Church has been the loss of reverence and sacrality and solemnity and divine worship. And we basically make worship into a gathering in which the priest is in charge and he'll do whatever he wants. And that's, if there's one thing that's destroyed a lot of people's faith is finding that the worship of God has now been substituted with essentially the worship of man, the celebrant or the choir or you know performances. Friends you have dance performances at masses sometimes. This is absurd. Dance is beautiful. I'm all in favor of ballet, you

know, theater, musical theater is great. That's not what the worship of God is, so we leave that out. No, I would just say that probably the internet is a gift to our age and makes possible so much communication and learning about so many things that otherwise would just be so, take so much time. But it's become far too easy in the social media age to sit behind one's computer and lash out, and particularly for Catholics, one would simply hope that Catholics would live truth and charity and be able to speak if there's a need to, they have every right to, but to do so in a way that's constructive and is that not, you know, casting insults either at a pope or at anyone really.

I mean, we don't, that's not the way of Christ. And who do you think is doing a good job at addressing this respectfully? Probably y'all in the book, but who else? We try. Oh no, there are a lot of good critiques out there. Father Fessio and Edward Penton. Edward Penton is a great journalist.

Raymond Arroyo, who I work with the dvd and bob royal mean anybody i write for the catholic thing anybody who writes there is generally of that same uh... attitude which is uh... the duty of catholics is to defend the truth in charity so uh... yeah there are people out there it's there are others who like to use slang and provocative language.

And then in America, we basically love the combination of comedy and seriousness at the same time. So people will say serious things and cause us to laugh. And that's not appropriate when talking about church doctrine. So here's my next question. It's a little harder. You've given me a couple of names of people who are doing this right, why not give me some names of people who are doing it wrong in the sense that they are being slanderous? Because if we're going to call out the pope and the cardinals by name because what they're doing is public, do you feel

free to call out anyone publicly online or elsewhere? Sure, no, I'll say there's a website called call anyone publicly on one wall say there's a website called um... can into twelve and they've caused to use expression thug cardinal or thug pope this is ridiculous shouldn't be done this is not if you have a disagreement with the pope says uses name same with cardinal so that this is kind of that joke inflammatory language and it's sort of like you know the uh... national choir the national choir approach to news

you put out a headline is provocative open people by your newspaper so i i don't like that at all uh... and then bloggers get various ones get into different levels of uh... disrespect so uh... yeah i wouldn't choose to comment you can see why this is what I'm interested about. Is it because we're friendly with these people?

Is it because they're a mixed bunch? Well, Diane's a journalist, so she's got a profession. Yes. And well, and when we were asking us about, you know, who's doing it well, I think that depends on what your profession or what your role is. For a journalist, you don't generally put your own opinions into things so much. A certain amount of analysis is certainly justified, but one doesn't generally put one's opinions in. For a commentator such as Raymond Arroyo or or Father Murray or Bob Royal or others,

they're more free with their opinions. That makes sense. Yeah. And I have to say, you know, speaking of Catholic Twitter, it can be a rather muddy place. And I really don't want to participate in it. I don't want to invite that upon myself or upon other people that I know. And I don't see it's not a constructive place for a back and forth. So I prefer just to not weigh in. I think part of the thing that's confusing to a lot of us is that there are people that we

enjoy listening to, and they'll get like 90% spot on, right? They're saying 90% of the things that we wish our priests would say, or we wish somebody we respected greatly would say, but there's like 5% that just makes us go, I don't know, I can't put my finger on why this is wrong, but it doesn't seem like you should say things that way. So it can be difficult to sift through. Well, take the 90 percent, you know, and look, everybody has disagreements, and that's part of the beauty of, you know, knowledge of history, philosophy, and theology, that there are different takes on how we should express or propose things. Yeah, I actually, this is

gonna sound horrible, and maybe it is, and you're welcome to rebuke me, but I actually find I have a ton of sympathy both for those on the far right who are just trying to grapple with the chaos in our church and even with those who are apostatizing. I think it's a grave sin to do that, I don't want them to do that, but I can understand people on both sides of the spectrum, I think, because it feels like we're just in a storm and people are trying to find shelter somewhere, because it's better than being in a storm. That's how it feels, even if that's not how we view it.

One of the great things in life is disappointment great meaning it's ponders and is present all the time we are constantly disappointed by our fellow human beings and we have to learn how to live with that and uh... particularly in the church mean i have a very high regard to respect for the priesthood the episcopacy the papacy uh... but when so therefore when they don't do it properly, their job, you're very disappointed. But that shouldn't lead you to saying, well now I have the freedom to try and get their

attention by using vituperation. I don't know what that word is, but I want to. Vituperation. You need a dictionary on your shelf. Yeah. Vituperation means vociferous opposition and critique. Which is interesting because if you look back in church history, even if one thinks of St. Bridget of Sweden or St. Catherine of Siena or some of the male saints, fathers and doctors,

it isn't as though there wasn't forceful language in the past. Absolutely. But the key seems to be, what's the spirit motivating this? If it's gratuitous for the sake of getting clicks, or if it's coming out of your own anger about things, that's probably not the time to be commenting. What's difficult though is,

we use examples like that and I agree with you. I heard this anecdote about St. Louis de Montfort who was preaching a parish mission and there was a pub next door or close by and there was a bunch of rowdy men and he had asked them to stop on three different times and then apparently clocked one. I love stories like that, you know, but the problem is you hear things like that. Or St. Nicholas punching out areas. It's St. Nicholas, yes, exactly. But you hear stories like that and I think the chances that I will use that anecdote to help moderate my anger is very unlikely. I'm more likely to use that anecdote to justify my own sin. It doesn't mean we shouldn't point to them and acknowledge that there's been forceful

language and forceful language can be good. I just mean, you know what I mean. Sure, well, I mean, we just had the passion read at Mass, you know, when they struck our Lord and He said, you know, if why do you strike me if I've spoken the truth? It's another word, the Lord didn't just sit there and let them hit Himself, hit Him without challenging them, but He did so in a divine brilliance, which is to say your actions are not justified simply because you do them you have to explain why you're doing them you have to convince me you're doing what's right and that's I think the approach we need to take with you

know critiquing both papal and hierarchical statements the fact for instance a Cardinal Marx says that the Catholic Church is wrong and needs to change the catechism of the Catholic Church, that's a gratuitous attack on the faith, and he needs to justify it and then face up to the criticisms. Sad to say, I don't think he's going to do that, he's not going to, you know, call up his opponents and say, let's have a dialogue. So you end up having to do that dialogue in the press, which is, and maybe get his attention. Well, listen, part of the problem there too is perhaps and getting back to your point about things accelerating in the past few months.

Cardinal Marx probably wouldn't be doing that if he thought that there was going to be a consequence and a correction from those who are in authority to correct him or Cardinal Holleric. And maybe that's where the the letter the open letter from the other prelates is is also good in putting a bit of pressure for there to be a correction of these prelates who are leading people astray yeah that's a good point no and that the critique of course will be there's disunity in the church when the bishops fight each other therefore we

shouldn't have any fighting and the answer is no the disunity in the church when the bishops fight each other therefore we shouldn't have any fighting and The answer is no the disunity starts when people reject the faith and use their position of authority to promote it So in fact the restoration of unity occurs when the truth is enunciated and then when the people are wrong Admit their error and correct themselves and if they won't admit their error They should be deprived of their position of authority because they're misusing it. Yeah. Yeah, also if I could add, going back to the whole nature of the storm and looking at it and such and the particular things we've talked about, I think we touch on this in the book. I think for the faithful, I think for the faithful, we just celebrated the Holy Week and Easter, and Father referenced the reading of the Passion.

I think it's important to see what the Church is going through. She is the bride of Christ. The Church is Christ's mystical body, and we do believe as Catholics that the Church will live through the Passion of our Lord, and she has to be conformed to her spouse also in the mysteries of his passion. So I think especially now when you see the prelates, those who are supposed to be his closest friends betraying him in a thousand ways and leading the souls astray, especially when the world wants to devour, especially the young.

I mean, we see that more and more in culture through education, the indoctrination, especially of the young five-year-olds and things that they should know nothing about. And so, but I do think it's important to keep a supernatural perspective on this. And it's not just a matter of fighting and battles and confusion. There is a mystery going on here. And I think that also helps to motivate the faithful to pray more, to not to lose heart, and to not be tempted to leave the church at a time when she is going through her passion. That's my own.

Yeah, I remember when I was trying to come up with a regular prayer life. This is gonna sound like a detour, but it's not. I didn't like sitting alone, didn't like praying. I did like apologetics. And so I remember I would spend that hour, I had allotted myself every day to basically study apologetics, and so I remember I would spend that hour, I had allotted myself every day to basically study apologetics, and it was very exciting.

And I kind of maybe mistook that excitement for the fact that I'm doing the right thing. And there's nothing wrong with apologetics, it's a very noble thing to do, but of course it's a different thing than praying. But I think in a more sort of insidious sense, people are replacing their prayer lives with ecclesial news sites, because there is a sense of satisfaction we get from outrage. And I'm really concerned that many of us are doing that, that we're just refreshing whoever, and we're mistaking that for the Christian life. Excellent observation. Yeah, if you're going to respond in a Christian way to the crisis in the

church, you have to be a man or woman of prayer and that means meditation on the scriptures on the doctrine of the faith and the lives of the saints you know take for inspiration i read magnifica every day and they have a life of a saint on most days usually money of some obscure saints i've never heard of the wonderful stories but meditating on those will allow you precisely to see, well, the work of apologetics is supposed to be doing Christ's work, but if I'm not united to Christ in thought and intention through a prayerful union with him, I'm probably going to make a lot of mistakes. That'll help calm people down also from the hurt of disappointment, because in the end, people like, a lot of people have the

expectation, if I do what's right, then God's gonna smooth everything out and the life of the church is gonna inspire me at all moments. Doesn't work that way. You know, the last thing the other 11 Apostles want is to have Judas running around doing what he did. He did it, you know. You know, think about that, he was stealing from the money bank and they knew about it and the Lord kept them there among the other apostles and the Lord knows everything. You know, there's a mystery of evil in the life of the church that we have to be reconciled to, not in the sense that we agree with it, but that we understand it's operative and we have to, you know, pose it in a Christian way. All right, here's an inflammatory question. Could somebody justify Pope Francis not responding to the German cardinals by saying

Christ didn't publicly rebuke Judas for much of their public ministry, and it's just the mystery of evil that we have to live with, the wheat and the weeds? Well, Judas was stealing money. He wasn't teaching that Jesus' teachings were false, you know. I mean, that's the distinction to be made here. No, the job of the pope, as we read in the scriptures, is you turn, now you will turn and confirm your brethren. So the primary job of the pope is to confirm the brethren, meaning the other apostles, their successors, but also all the people in the Church in the doctrine of the faith. So when he fails to do that, he's not following the example of his predecessors. Great point. And we see Christ rebuking the apostles when they do come into conflict with his doctrine, such as when he calls Peter Satan.

Well, how about the Emmaus disciples? You know, slow of heart to understand what's in the scriptures, you know, he explained to them all the things leading up to him. The Emmaus disciples are another great meditation on how things go wrong in the life of the church. I mean, the holy women told him about the resurrection and they didn't believe him. And then they took this six-mile walk, I think it is, to Emmaus, downcast as if nothing had happened. Wait a minute. You think after all these,

you know, months and years following the Lord that the women are going to make up a story and they couldn't hang around to find out if it was true? So this is what happened in the life of the Church. Yeah. I want to encourage people to get this book for a couple of reasons. One, as I said, I haven't read it, but I like both of you. You're both very intelligent and articulate and I can only imagine with an editor, you're all the more articulate. But the other reason is it's beautiful to see Catholic presses like Emmaus Road

putting out things like this. Like it does take courage to address the crisis in a loving charitable way. So link in the description, you got it there? Cool, thanks. It's called Calming the Storm. People should click through and buy it right now. What else do you get into in here that we haven't really addressed?

Oh, well, the whole social upheaval in the United States and the Western world revolving around gender studies. Yeah, I guess you have to address it since certain chapters at chapter two, chapter one is a biography. We talk about Father's life chapter two is an age of confusion so we speak in a more general way but try to get to the roots of why we're in an age of confusion then we go into looking at you know what to do when when prelates or people in positions of authority make headlines teaching against the faith, then we look at winds of revolution.

That's on the when the tradition is being undermined with from within the church. Then we move to standing up for truth in a hostile culture where we address we dress critical race theory, we address transgenderism and some of the issues that abortion, some of the issues that real people and families, young people, parents are all dealing with and perhaps particularly as a consequence of the church not being the voice that she needs to be in the world today. I think that's one of the great pities. We talk a lot about the demise of the church and she's being weakened from within and the world, not only Catholics,

but the world is missing her voice because she's not just a light for Catholics. Whether they know it or not, she is the moral compass and she is the light for the world. And especially young people today who are the victims of so much through the presence of social media. Most kids don't even remember a time when there wasn't there wasn't an iPhone. The education or indoctrination they receive at all levels of education.

So we try to address some of those real needs. And then we talk about how to address the problems and what lay people in particular can do, practically speaking, in order to move us into a better position and to deal with the confusion. I know some, obviously, many parents have it hard and there are many single parents, often women, heroically raising their children. But can we continue to justify sending children to public schools? It depends on what they're doing in the public school. You know, the great thing in United States is, um, you know,

liberal Northeast is not the reality every place. Now, unfortunately through federal mandates and courts, a lot of stuff does get thrown down uh... to all the states and then that in general the teachers unions are very liberal but you know part of the you want to form a kids well and that has to be done basically at home and if you have a good parish uh... but you also want to

put kids make put him in a hot house where they've never experienced, you know, the challenges of being out in the sunshine. So teaching kids to refute error beginning in high school is very important. That's why we should, I mean, it's definitely important for kids in high school to know where the intellectual trends since the Renaissance have been in the Western world. So yeah, I want to offer some encouragement to parents out there who might have young kids who are thinking, how on earth am I going to do this? Because I felt that way. Sometimes I still feel that way.

But what I didn't kind of take into account is that my children as they would grow, would also grow intellectually and can see falsehoods and become quite snarky at refuting them. Uh, to give one example, uh, my son bought a t-shirt and I, maybe I shouldn't have allowed him to buy this, you tell me, and it had Joe Biden in a mask and it said, this mask is as useless as our president. So I thought, well, if he's gonna rebel,

I'd prefer him to rebel in that direction. So he went to the airport with my wife and my wife's like, if I get kicked off this plane, if we don't get through, like, I'm not happy about this. He had so many older men coming up to him congratulating him Taking a stand on politics. But yeah, like it's been really cool to sort of explain the insanity of Transgender ideology to my children because they see it so clearly the same thing with abortion Like wouldn't it be horrible if a woman paid somebody to kill their child or that if a man abandoned the woman he made an act of love with you know so I've I've actually been enjoying the kind of teenage years you know

because there's this snarky they're infallible so they enjoy a good argument I've been really enjoying this you know well yeah and the provisos here if your kids going to be academically penalized at their public school because they won't go along with the Indoctrination then you've got a problem because that's unfair and not everybody wants to go to court So some people definitely have to find alternatives and sometimes you have to pay more money to go to a private school But even those are not all going to be in good control It's we're in a cultural crisis of the of the sort that we'd never really Thought we'd be in the cat the 60s counterculture has now taken over

largely the media Academy world of mainstream media and to a degree that they no longer just present their position as an alternative They say no, we're the only truth. this is the dogma archery the only true and only claim you can have your truth now you can't because we'll put you in jail but now i mean kid kids are resilient resiliency is a good and important thing to learn uh... but they need to

prior uh... you know i mean certainly teaching them the basis of and we talk about in the book, metaphysical realism where you treat reality as not something we control, but we respond to. That's very important. Yeah. And I would, I had to add that one of the good things, perhaps among only the good things that came out of COVID was at least in the United States, because children were at home more and learning online, which I don't think is a particularly helpful

or good way of learning, but the parents were able to see what their children were actually learning. And so the parent, there seems to be an awakening going on, at least in this country, in terms of what's happening in the public education system. I think a lot of people, a lot of parents, throughout past decades,

have sent their children to school trusting in institutions, trusting in the system. And I think that that awakening now of parents getting more involved in their children's education, just in terms of basic parenting, that's a good thing. That's the education is the primary duty of parents, as you well know, but also to fight that the parents themselves are fighting back for the sake of their children, I think is a wonderful thing. And if it means taking your school, your children out of school, by all means, do. Yeah, you alluded to this, but what we're meant to do is, you know, we read that we're supposed to know, love and serve God, right? Good Catholic

education should put us in touch with what's real. We should therefore know it. And since we can't love what we don't know, the next step is to love it in an ordinate way, whatever the thing is, right? And then we serve the truth. But in this modern, woke, Luciferian system, it's the exact inverse. We are taught very often, I think, to serve the agenda or the state and whatever it's pushing. And if we serve it, we'll come to love it for whatever reason. Maybe it gives us a sense of belonging. Yeah, for whatever reason. But once we've come to love it, we then rationalize it. So it's the exact opposite. We serve, we love, and then we know. And I'm seeing this a bit with this mask mandate being

lifted on airplanes, people freaking out over this. It just seems like you're lying to yourself. You know? Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. The blue check marks on Twitter, and I believe Biden is pushing back against this now. Can you look that up? Because I may have made that up. No, no, the administration is filing an appeal to the judge's decision. It's insane. It's insane. Well, you know, part of the addiction of, you know, the people who run the modern culture

is they don't hesitate to use coercion when freedom is actually what's indicated by rational thought. So remember, follow the science ends when the science can no longer justify something that they like to use to control people. So it's, you know, we talk a lot about metaphysical realism to get back to that because underlying all of these problems in the life of the church is this rejection of realism that reality is given. It's not something of our own creation. You know, we can take things, we can take a tree and make a pencil out of it, but it was still made from a tree. So what is, is given and then we use it. Whereas people now want to say, if you're born male, that's not really reality because you determine you're a female,

and therefore you really are a female. The silliness. But then where's the coercion come in? You have to call a man or woman with the woman's pronouns otherwise you're being mean uh... if not illegal you know in some areas uh... reality you know to teach children the the reality is our first duty to understand it to know it and then the presumption of course in all good philosophy is that reality is no a bowl it's an intelligible category so therefore

we don't live in i was kind of drifting around the space not having any reference points What do you think about this? I said this to my wife land in bed last night I don't know. I said I think there's gonna be a massive pendulum swing coming such that maybe in a hundred years We might have to be pressing back against the puritanical impulse of Netflix Because I don't see this continuing. I mean, I think we're at the bottom of the barrel. I think it's gonna get much worse. Please God, we have some martyrs in this country.

But it just, I'm already seeing signs of hope from people pushing back against this, whatever you wanna call it, woke, left indoctrination. Do you see that? Any signs of hope? Not just in the church? Yeah, there are always signs of hope because you know normal people want to live normal lives by normal people I mean those who affirm that God's creation as it's given to us is good and needs to be upheld and defended

the question of course is People don't live in isolation and live in community. So who controls the community? And now, you know, basically leftist, secularists control these academy, entertainment and media, meaning they all endorse the same point of view, is what I mean. University, government. Yeah, and then they've now used their power to convince corporate America to endorse their point of view. So Disney, of course, is now wanting to promote homosexuality and things like that in their movies and cartoons. This is what I'm hoping.

I'm hoping that the more they push, the more upset we get and the more likely. Well I think that is what's happening. That is what's happening. It is what's happening. And then I'm a big fan of the free market because economic control is in the hands of the consumer. So enough people want something else you get the enemies races yeah

they're gonna create you know that's a whole nother no but daily wire just daily wire kids is coming out they put a hundred million dollars into creating children's programming that isn't that's fantastic no and people there's a market for it yeah in fact people that if you go back, R-rated movies did a lot worse than G movies in terms of box office. That was never generally known. But of course, the people, the avant-garde people, want to produce movies with sex because that shows that they're going against Christian culture. But they lost money for the studios so but you know back to where we can go normal people who find normal things and pay for it are going to create new and sources of

wealth and you don't need the same concentration of wealth to do things like what we're doing here today could not have been done in 1960 even though there were microphones and cameras yeah and transmission means but it costs a lot more money to do it. So now, you know, this is one of the, the internet brings pornography into the home. So that's horrible that they're misused, but it also brings in EWTN, Matt Fred,

all kinds of good stuff. Yeah, do you see signs of hope? Yes, well, I think ultimately, I mean, those who are being robbed the most are the young because we all by our nature want to live for something and were made for were made for God, but were made for meaning. And that's I think, so many young people, I think generations can only live so long without that. And that's where the church comes in. I mean, she has to offer what people are really looking for.

A better story than wokeism does. Because that's the attraction of the transgender thing. It's something I can fight for and belong to. Yes. But the thing about the transgender movement is, in a sense, you know, what's at issue here? Because if you can have people watching the swim match and collectively are not acknowledging that there's a guy in the pool and he just beat a bunch of girls and that's the reality of it.

What you've done is you've surrendered your mind. So the transgender issue and the, is one thing, but on a deeper level, what that's causing in the minds of citizens is a willingness to surrender their intellect to whatever the state tells them is reality. So, yeah. Sorry.

I'm hoping there'll be pushback. I always get them mixed up. It was 1984. George Orwell's 1984? Yeah, what was the beginning where, you know, has always been at war with East Asia or whatever that was. And he keeps, he flips it, he gets handed a note and he says, we've never been at war with this country. And then he gets another, we've always been at war.

And I remember when I read that thinking, this is so stupid, that would never happen. But now I'm like, it happens all the time. No, and it happened in the Soviet Union, you know. Every time the dictator died, they would go back to the encyclopedias and eliminate the photos of the communist leaderships who are now out of favor they would always rewrite history it's no the the totalitarian impulse meaning the control impulse

Is something that has to be resisted and in a free country such as we have now meaning, you know Things are problematic, but we have independent courts. We have laws that are written and we have now, meaning things are problematic, but we have independent courts, we have laws that are written, and we have economic freedom. There's more of a chance for people to get together and without getting into warfare, to resist the control mechanisms. That's gonna take courage, also takes leadership,

because Diane's right, people wanna live for something, but somebody's gotta explain what that is. And that's where good leadership results in many good benefits. And this is another benefit through the social network world where good people are making good statements, people will get inspired. Yeah, I remember being shocked at how my family members

in Australia were taking to government lockdowns and restrictions differently to how I was. And I'm like, I have drunk the American Kool-Aid here, or they have, or, you know, it's just crazy. I mean, the way they would speak about their government, it's like the way a wife should speak of her husband, you know, like they would say things like, well, they're taking care of us, you know, and that's the main thing. And, well, they'd say COVID has shut down all these small businesses, you know? Well, you had those street protests in Australia.

Okay, but here's my point. In America, you have these big contingents that go at each other, like Fox News and CNN and Daily Wire and MSNBC. But in Australia, it feels like everyone's singing from the same sheet of music, like all of the major news outlets. You have these new things called like Sky News in Australia, it feels like everyone's singing from the same sheet of music like all of the major news outlets You have this one big things like Sky News in Australia, but they tend to deal mostly with Trump or something

No, I'll throw in my historic. I'm a head did history study This is one of the bad things that Chester didn't saw about the BBC That the government would own the principal means of communicating with the people and princess to the government on all the newspapers of course not but at the beginning they owned all the radio and then through this tax they have in england to support the bbc essentially to government funded enterprise by using people's money involuntarily

uh... and that unfortunately in all the colonies former british colonies that model was taken up cbc a bc uh... maria never had that because we were rebelling against control by the British crown. So it's yeah. So those street protests in Australia were very quickly dismissed generally because they were just written off as crazy people. And there was not crazy, but there was no big news outlet. Well, I said be their voice control as well. Germany, there were a lot of protests.

Italy, there were protests. Italy, not so much, unfortunately, and their media is also very controlled. And you're thinking, did you notice that? Oh, it is speak to Italians. I'm in the habit of if I have to take a taxi somewhere, I generally talk to the taxi driver because they're generally pretty normal people and you can get a good sense of what the normal Italian is thinking. And yes, I mean, there

are some alternative media that are sprouting up in Italy, but it's very much propaganda singing from the same song sheet, which is what we're seeing now is this desire from big government to kind of squash these independent outlets that are speaking against the secular narrative. Yes. Well, we talk about council culture in the book as well. Yeah, we do talk about that.

And it's, no, it's a totalitarian impulse. And in fact, you know, the older I get, the more I realize the central role of government is to dole out money to favored parties. You know, that's the way it's conceived of. And that's what our huge federal tax burden is all about and it's sad because if the interests of parties are the American people you build roads and things that's that's great but when you start financing Black Lives Matters Planned Parenthood through grants given by government agencies you're basically the government's trying to buy influence

shops and convince people this is wrong. This is not what free people do. Did you find a similar reticence on the part of the clergy to speak against abortion, say back in the when 70s? I don't know how old you are. I don't want to be doing so. No, I was born in 1959. Was there a similar reticence then because the topic was so hot as there is now among the clergy on things like Transgenderism because now it feels like all Catholics feel very free to talk about abortion and against abortion It doesn't take much courage to do that But it does take I think courage for a priest or someone in Catholic public world to speak against the insanity of

Transgenderism because that's the thing that gets you cancelled on YouTube today So we'll see how long this video lasts, but no, that's good Well the I'll say this no back when abortion was first Legalized in the United States was in different states before Roe v. Wade in the late 60s And the Catholic Church was the leading force in fighting it and that was led by the bishops the National Right to Life Committee Was the first and primary engine fighting abortion in culture and in law that was founded basically by the American hierarchy. That's great. Yeah so that was it was quite clear the problem with transgenderism is a development

from homosexual liberation so the gay rights movement you know is no longer gay pride Sunday or gay pride month it's pride month they consciously dropped the word gay because the subversion that was necessary to get gay uh... accepted as normal then applies to all these other devian sees you know so bisexuality uh... pretending you're a man or woman when you're not then pretend you cycle non-binary you know what does that mean i'm neither a man or a woman that's impossible you one of the other so

it that's gone so the gay rights movement unfortunately is and largely endorsed by the all democratic political leaders in united states means democrat part democratic party and some republicans endorses so there's more reticence but it shouldn't be that way there should be much more great vigorous opposition and this is where as we talked about those bishops who wrote criticizing the

german vision this is where the complex gonna center now and we hope and pray uh... the pope frances doesn't allow this discussion to go on interminably it among church leaders because it's causing great damage and as part of that whittling down of resistance that the left likes to use which is say oh

you're just the only reason you're defending because you're going to make money or because it's your power but this is where society's going i like this expression haven't we moved beyond that doesn't explain anything just said we don't do that anymore, we don't oppose homosexuality anymore. Yeah, we do! We do, because homosexuality as a condition is something that's harmful to people, and they need to get out of it with help from others, and homosexual acts offend God, because they're sinful. Yeah, one of the good things that's come through all this is I think that priests and laypeople have become more vocal in denouncing this stuff.

It felt like we were all very apologetic in denouncing it like 15 years ago. We would trip over ourselves trying to show that what we weren't saying is such and such, and that's important. You want to say what you're not saying before you say what you are saying, lest you be misunderstood. But it often felt like we just kept saying what we're not saying and we never actually said what we were saying. So it's... Yeah, well we internalized the critique, which was a mistake, to say, as soon as you tell

someone homosexual acts are sinful, you've offended them. So you basically, I don't mean to offend you, but homosexual acts are wrong. And we should say, in order to not offend you, I'm going to tell you the truth because if I lied to you that's the real offense but you know we Americans are polite people and that's important but politeness is not equal to morality because you can use politeness to manipulate people so when the other side tells us you can't say those things it's rude and hurtful they're trying to shut us up we should say no. If I really want to offend you I will lie to you and I'm not going to do that.

Yeah good and that's where all of the alternative media whether it's daily wire or I mean they are quite you know grown so much over the years and other similar outlets you know that's the advantage we have so many advantages in the United States, just the whole spirit of the belief that things are possible and that people can affect change. I think that's one of the great things about this country. In other, in Europe, it's not that way because you've had a system over the people for so long that the idea of taking personal initiative, joining together, you know, affecting change through a movement is not something that comes so naturally to them, whereas it's built into who we are as

Americans. And so I think that's one of the great hopes for for America. There's a lot of reason for hope. Once people wake up. Absolutely. You know, historically speaking, you had two world wars in the 20th century in Europe, which were basically viewed as the fault of the government for different reasons. So governments underwent upheaval after both wars, then basically to establish peace and you know political harmony everybody said well we're just going to do a work everything together and then the fortunate government gets in too much control you know like in Italy for instance the the government controlled the airline and it went bankrupt because it didn't it wasn't efficient because

what happens is then people use that as a means to earn income without doing work British Airways likewise had a big problem, you know, they had to privatize. Anywhere you privatize it's a sign of social confidence that the people can rule themselves and that's a good thing that you know the United States did not, the airlines were not started by the US government. Now people argue about how much they control them, that's another question. But anyway, that's we're getting off topic, perhaps. I've been thinking more about cynicism lately, and it's close correlation with sarcasm.

I was in Uganda recently, and I noticed a complete lack of sarcasm and a complete lack of a sort of cheese, like cheesy. Nothing is too cheesy. I mean, people were just so joyful and didn't mock things. And I came back here and I was just so struck by the sarcasm and all that's cheesy and cringe. And I really think that somehow, I haven't thought this through a great deal, but tied with cynicism. Where we're just weary and exhausted and all we've got left is mockery. But I do think that cynicism is a result of cowardice and and despair But it's it's easy it's actually a lot easier just to kind of give up and be like the whole thing's bloody going down the tube and

Not have to wrestle with it I'm glad you brought up Africa my last parish where I was before I am where I am now was the large percentage of the parishioners were French-speaking West Africans because I was in a French parish in Manhattan and talk about people in touch with reality and nature they are you know they understand that there's a creator that they have a role that their time on earth is limited that they have to honor and respect you know the just order of things and they're not cynical in the sense of thinking this is all made up you know a

lot of Western people get cynical they say well in order to make everybody a good schoolgirl and schoolboy you give them a set of rules and then you punish them if they don't obey the rules but the adults don't believe in the rules they just want their life to be easy that they don't have to get in problems in the schoolyard you know after he's done at that attitude uh... their attitude that i saw in the parish was if jesus said i believe it even if it makes me look bad you know and i'm not gonna pretend that he didn't mean it

uh... so realism you know and the result is happiness because you know what makes you happy in life we talk a little bit about this in the book having money power and fame often bring lots of headaches they always do because the more money you have the more people want to take it from you and if you have fame you've always got to worry how's my reputation this morning you know forget all that stuff wake up say thank you Lord for this day and then how can I be

of service to the people that I'm responsible for? Any thoughts on cynicism and responding to that? No, no, I'm not a very cynical person. But I mean, do you think I'm right in that it's this easy way out? I think it's an easy way out and it's also the result probably of just a lot of sin over the years and where there's sin is really boring and it's lifeless. It really is. And when the culture has been submerged in it on a public level through media, through so quote unquote entertainment, through discourse, public discourse of the wrong sort, I think a society becomes weary and tired and is tempted into the ways

that you describe. You know, it is interesting, like in Jordan Peterson's latest book, I think it's called 12 More Rules for Life, he argues against cohabitation. You're like, talk about it, talk about signs of hope. You've got this non-Christian by all accounts fellow who's perhaps one of the biggest sellers in the world and he's making a case against cohabitation. It's a little frustrating because you've been saying this for years and people weren't listening. That's okay, you know, take it whatever blowing the trumpet as long as it's the right song, you know. Yeah and he seems, he seems to be very, I don't know where he is on

his, he's spoken a lot about faith in recent, you know, recent times, but he certainly seems to have a lot of intellectual honesty. And if you have intellectual honesty, you can arrive at the position of saying, writing, you know, cohabitation is wrong, just viewing its effects on life. Or a bad idea, I think. I don't know if he wouldn't have used the word wrong in a moral sense. But a bad idea. A bad idea. It's not useful, it doesn't produce a back to send us along glad you brought it up because it's another example of a manipulative behavior which doesn't rely on convincing you of my of someone's point

of view you simply say everything's bogus everything is false and but I'm strong enough to get through it and just follow me wait a minute you haven't proven anything here you haven't give me a reason and this unfortunately is uh... what you know many leaders in politics get into they basically impugn the motives of the people that disagree with them and then say well only naive people follow you me on the sophisticated people know this whole thing is a game

they're gonna follow me cuz I'm good at the game. But in the end, life is not a game, because the final whistle blows, the game ends and you're gonna find out your eternal fate. How long can normal people remain normal in a toxic environment? I was in Savannah seeing people jogging with no one around them, double masked.

Well, you know, let's just say people, once you have a medical crisis, and I'm gonna say that it was a huge medical crisis. We have a number of priests die in New York, who particularly in the retirement home, because it hit and waved, one of my classmates died. But then people get into an exaggerated fear and they think leaving it is going to, you know,

it's not worth it and you have to say look when when the risk is minimal if you've either got vaccinated or had COVID go live your life now I can't if anybody wants to keep wearing a mask please do I used to know before COVID a lot of Chinese people come to the UN my parish across the street the same in Rome and some loads of Chinese and they're all wearing masks. St. Peter's Square, the same thing. They would do the SARS.

You remember the SARS outbreak in China? So they got culturally accustomed to wearing masks. Someone wants to wear a mask, let them do it. Now the idea of wearing a mask outdoors when you're running alone doesn't make sense medically. But. I'm not gonna allow people to wear masks at their conference, I'm gonna host them.

It's actually gonna be required. Is that right, no mask? You can't come and get a mask. Because if you got a mask then either you're sick and I don't want to get sick or you're afraid of getting sick and I want to respect that and so I'll give you free footage. We'll give you a link and you can watch this online or maybe we'll come up with some sort of section where you can be you can be quoted off from the rest of us. But I agree with you look people have these different underlying health conditions and I've stopped guessing while people wear masks if they want to do it go for it I agree with that but I also

cannot help but see the whole this is a group marker thing this is my well show you what a very jealous person. Well I'll fight you on that one. It's not people I know who do it in my parish they're not it's not affirming group identity in their case It's simply that they have a heightened sense that this is necessary to protect their health. I disagree with them But that's life No, no, no fair enough. Yes. So maybe maybe that's my cynicism Maybe I have to be careful. How can we cure you? Well, just by saying what you did right because it is the thing is like whenever you're engaged in a behavior

that Hollywood, big tech, government are all applauding you for. It's kind of difficult to pass your motives in the first place. And it becomes difficult for me to accept the fact that everyone I see wearing a mask is doing so because they're afraid of getting sick. Yeah, but some are. Some are. And because I can't read people's minds Maybe I should give them the benefit of it because they Some are because they have been told by the media and by all of the all of the people that you've just or

Industries that you've just named they've been instilled with fear That doesn't mean that they're wearing it as a sign of allegiance to those to those institutions But rather that their mind has been. Yeah, they're in a new mindset. Right. Fair enough. Let's begin to talk about the hope we see, not just in the culture, daily wire, et cetera, but the church, because, you know, one thing I see immediately is, as we pointed out earlier on the show, you've got a big letter being written by bishops and cardinals Opposing these Germans these German cardinals. And so that's good. It seems like okay. I can see church teaching being clarified in a way

Maybe in a way it wouldn't have been if this didn't come up And other issues as well seem to be perhaps. This is the beginning of things being clarified I don't want to be overly optimistic or naive. Hopeful, you know optimism is good. You know nobody who likes golf for instance thinks they're gonna go out and hit horrible shots. You know they think at this chance this time I can hit a good ball. So we have to be optimistic and say because it's part of the motivation of life that we believe we can do stuff. It's sort of like when you join the Marine Corps

and you're not physically fit as someone who's been in the Marine Corps for 10 years, you shouldn't say, I can't do this. Say, no, I can do it. And they'll let you know at the end if you can. But for them to tell you. Well, because their standards are their standards, but you try and most people will succeed.

I was a navy chaplain so a lot of people in the marine corps were extremely physically fit who didn't start that way uh... but that's an analogy in the in the life of the church uh... right now uh... the sign of hope is that perennial sign of hope which is a god's grace is manifest in the holiness and the fidelity of so many people

not all necessarily in the religious life the fidelity of so many people, not all necessarily in the religious life or priestly life, and in our own age, the age of the laity, I think is a good way to put it. Diane and I were talking, driving over to the studio, a lot of the things that priests and nuns used to do to promote the faith and have been done by laypeople. You know, yourself, Scott Hahn, the professor or professoriate in most Catholic schools who are faithful are laypeople. You know, there's this professor, Edward Faser, out in California. You probably know him. Great Thomist. One of the best Thomists on the planet, and yet he's a married man with

kids, but you know he's devoted his life to something in the past. It would have only been monks priests and the like doing so God supplies when when we fail you know in our ordinary patterns and then new patterns one of the great things the expansion of education in the Western world is the large larger pool of people to enter the edge of the ranks of the educated which means given statistics that means there will be more people available to teach philosophy and theology than there were 100 years ago.

Okay. Yeah, that's definitely a sign of hope. No, also I would say in the liturgical world, even though we had Tradiciones Custores, Pope Benedict, Semorum Pontificum in 2007, particularly here in the United States, also certainly in France and England. But in a very strong way here in the US, you've seen a real growth of Latin mass communities where you then you

find people who families that are flourishing lots of children generally being educated well. And I think that's also a tremendous source of hope for the church, particularly in the US, but also France and and to a lesser extent England. England. What do you say to somebody who's like fighting to kind of get the Latin mass kind of going and maybe the the predominant mass over the novus order? Is this something you have strong opinions of?

I'll jump in and say, let people do what they want. Freedom is the answer. And that's basically what Pope John Paul II and Benedict said. People attach to this mass, find value in it. Now, this isn't merely sentiment or preference. I like vanilla, you like chocolate. No, this is something good and holy and worth venerating. But

yeah, things take time, you know, the expansion of Western monasticism was crucial in the fall of the Roman Empire to preservation of culture, but it didn't happen in a matter of five years. So I think the Latin Mass will continue to flourish. I think Tradiciones Custodes was something, was largely a mistake, and I think it won't have practical fruits because the people like the Mass aren't going away. So already... And also because the bishops didn't really, didn't really support Tradiciones Custodes. There was no widespread influence.

Well, the survey on which Tradiciones Custores was said to have been based was a survey of the bishops conducted by the congregation for the doctrine of the faith. apparently, Pope Francis in his accompanying letter, I believe, says that the action he's taking in Traditiones Custores is largely based on that survey and what the bishops wanted only, I mean, I have published a certain, the last section of that survey, the whole, the Vatican hasn't, hasn't published the entire survey or the report I should say the report that was written based on the survey I published I was able to obtain the last section of that report that contained it was a collection of quotations from the bishops that would have been representative of the kinds of things that they were saying. So there were some negative things, but large in large part,

it was positive and certainly overall the, the, the attitude of the bishops was stay the course with some other pontificum. Perhaps there might be some slight changes that you can make here and there, but tradition school studies was not based on the will of the bishops. But then that's proven by the way that it was received by the bishops. That is, most of the bishops remained silent. Those who were against the traditional mass, they certainly used Tradiciones Custodes as the opportunity to shut things down in their

particular diocese. But certainly, as we see here in the United States and elsewhere, England, other countries as well, the bishops reaction was consistent with what the survey actually represented. So that's, that's, yeah I didn't know that, that's really interesting. Yeah Diane did a lot of reporting on that which I'm sorry I didn't know. No a lot of people don't, it should have gotten more press but it didn't unfortunately. No and then just the practical reaction that bishops have been studying the document, how to implement it, but it's not in their interest in an era of declining mass attendance to alienate people

who like the old mass and are tempted to go to the St. Pius X Society masses. Yes, exactly. Because they're not canonically regular. Yeah, and I mean some of the comments that you did see from bishops was, you know, and these would be bishops who would not, they're not celebrating the traditional Latin Mass themselves, but you could still see in them, they have the bishop's heart that they don't want to see the sheep go astray. They don't want to see the sheep be outside the fold. And so, even if they're not going to celebrate the traditional Latin Mass themselves, they're

happy that their faithful have a place to worship God in a way that is sanctified by the ages. Exactly. So it's a mass of great value and holiness. And then I remember talking to this Canadian priest back when Benedict was Pope and he said how sad that Pope Benedict is so out of touch with what the younger people want in thinking that they're sort of into Latin and tradition. And I just thought how ironic and how sad it's you who is out of touch thinking that

young people aren't interested in their heritage. And it's not just Latin and tradition, which it certainly is that it is the divine and the sacred and the other worldly and everything that we're meant for and that speaks to the human heart. Yes. Do I have to shuffle about the place like it's a 7-Eleven? Like is everywhere supposed to be like Walmart or can there be something that's sacred? But my point in saying that was just to say I think you're also seeing a lot of younger

priests celebrating the Novus Ordo in a beautiful way as well. Yes. Well, and that was Benedict's, one of Benedict's intentions, I think, in when he published Summorum Pontificum is that he very much saw the spread of the traditional mass as rightly influencing the celebration of the new mass. But that, speaking of totalitarian impulse, I don't want to accuse Pope Francis of that, but when you try to squash something, it just draws a ton of interest.

Have you heard of the, is it the Streisand effect? Have you heard of that? No, what's that? No, what's that effect? Look it up so I don't get this wrong. It's set to be Barbara Streisand? Yes, it's fantastic. It's called the Streisand effect.

My understanding was that there was some magazine that there was a magazine that there was a photograph of this beach and her beautiful house and she may have tried to sue them and all that did was draw way more attention. People didn't even know that was Barbara Streisand's house but now they do and everybody's talking about it. No, actually I visited after Tradiciones Custores was published, I happened to be in a couple of different parishes, traditional Latin Mass parishes, and some of the laymen in those parishes said to me that their numbers were never higher until Tradiciones Custores because everyone was interested in what this is that's being... Well, not just that, but I mean, the churches were shut down

during a lot of COVID restrictions, and so people came into touch with the Latin Mass for the first time online, and they were just blown away by how beautiful it was. Did I get that right, Neil? Yeah, straight to the victim on that stuff by the house. Yes. I want to talk about how we Catholics can grow in our relationship with Christ

and live day to day amidst this storm. And I don't have my glasses, but I want to read something that Cardinal John Henry Newman said. It's very short, but I'll tell you why I like it after. He says this, I insist on this because I think it will simplify our views and fix our exertions on a definite aim. If you ask me what you are to do in order to be perfect, I say first, do not lie in bed beyond the due time of rising. Give your first thoughts to God, make a good visit to the blessed sacrament, say the angelus

devoutly, eat and drink to God's glory, say the rosary well, be recollected, keep out bad thoughts, make your evening meditation well, examine yourself daily, go to bed in good time and you are already perfect." What I love about that is the simplicity of it and the concreteness of it. I think there's a lot of us who are like, okay, how do I keep my bearings spiritually and devotionally in a chaotic world? So, encourage us, would you? How do we do that? Absolutely. In fact, yeah, we were talking about that very passage in the car over. Oh, were you? This passage here? Yes, yes.

Crazy. Short road to perfection or short way to perfection of carnal neumann no what he says is um a recognition that we are you know rational animals in other words we we are soul and body composition so we have to attend to both the body and the soul if we're going to please god yeah the for me regularity in life is one of the keys to happiness, even though that's counterintuitive because for many people, the idea of I do what I want when I want is happening. Yes. Spontaneity. So, you know, people like, Oh, let's do some random thing.

You know, okay, well maybe if you're on vacation and you're not, we can schedule the random beach or I want to swim in the pool or i want to go play shuffleboard around my cruise ship but no uh... i was a navy chaplain and one of the things i learned there part of the efficiency in the military is they give people a vision of what they're serving which is the united states of america and they train you to be able to do it well get up early physical exercise E3 meals

You know answer to an officer for enlisted officers answer superior offers it no it doesn't orderliness which is predictable So yeah predictability and routine are not enemies of a natural interaction with God and our neighbor they fact they make it possible and then you know one of the secrets I once learned from a priest is the more time you pray you find more time to do other things when you don't pray you'd have never have time for anything so I think people should do a morning meditation say the rosary they should do all kinds of things that Cardinal Newman refers to spiritual reading is one of the keys yes you'll like this pints with Aquinas

advice of one priest was read an article of the summa every day of your life just go read read an article because we need we got to feed the mind we've got to put things there I say read the gospel every day make a visit blessed sacrament but we have regularity you know the happier people are the ones who basically wake up and say I know how to approach this day because I've approached all my previous days in this way and they've been rather successful yeah Yeah, and I guess I would just add to encourage people to really keep holy the Lord's Day that is in our society of 24-hour everything where everything is available at any time

and shopping is available any day of the week at any time. I think the, to put the, we need to regain the, the primacy of God. And I think that keep truly keeping the Lord's Day holy as an individual, as a family is probably one of the best ways to, to begin to put order into your entire life. Because if you're no longer allow yourself to work or to shop or to do moral, perfectly fine things on the Lord's day, that forces you to cram everything into the week and to place order into your life that hopefully will be fruitful. I think one way we could do that and one way I seek to do it is by leaving my phone at the office on Friday nights and picking it up Monday morning or something similar, putting

your phone away, turning it off, putting it in a drawer if you have more self-control than me and don't need to leave it a few blocks away. But also in disciplining oneself, you know, if whatever social media platform you're on or wherever you get your news, particularly about the church, don't live from, we're supposed to live from Christ, not live from our phones. And I think in a sense that phone, while it's a useful tool, has in a sense replaced the soul. It used to be in the spiritual masters will speak of being recollected and dwelling within where God willing the Holy Trinity is dwelling. And I think that sometimes this phone becomes the thing

that we're always going to, listening to, being attentive to rather than God who dwells within. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Golly, that's really good. I love what you had to say too about ordering our days. I can say with no sort of doubt that my life has become happier after I got married 15, 16 years ago, just because it's like,

there's order in a way that there wasn't before. And not only would I say I'm happier, but I'd say I'm way more productive than I was. I sometimes think, oh, if only I didn't have my kids and my wife and I could just go somewhere for a year. And how much I'd get done. No, I probably wouldn't. Yeah, I probably wouldn't. Yeah, probably wouldn't.

Yeah. They say if you want to get something done, give it to a busy person to do it. And there's a logic to that because you develop the habit of industriousness and focus. So deadlines are liberating for instance, you know, that's a line I learned, which when I have to write a column, I think you're right. Tell me exactly when you need this. When you need this, no, just, I think you're right. Tell me exactly when you need this. When you need this.

Not just, you know, sometime soon. No. Well, I want to take some questions from our supporters, but before we do that, I have to say thank you to Exodus 90 ad read. Exodus 90. You heard of Exodus 90? I think I have. It's an immense program of sanctification that you commit to certain things for 90 days.

Correct. You do it. There you go. That's about all I know. So, yeah, basically, if you're a man who wants to take your spiritual life to the next level, you can find a small group of men, and for 90 days, you read through the Book of Exodus, you give up sweets, you give up snacks between meals, you give up alcohol, you give up unnecessary internet use, you give up warm showers, and you devote an hour of prayer every day. I mean, it's really quite cool.

So if you're a bloke who wants to take a spiritual life to the next level, go to Exodus90.com slash Matt. Good. Click it, click it in the description. Exodus90.com slash Matt. They've got a really fantastic, sophisticated app that will put you in touch with other men so you can do this with them.

They also have a week-long course and shorter periods of time if you're like me and think you're good at sprints but not marathons, as Gimli said in the Lord of the Rings movie. What did he say? Long distance is wasted on us, anyway. So go check them out, Exodus90.com slash Matt. There are a ton of amazing stories of men who feel like they have just been liberated

from all sorts of things they didn't even expect by devoting this time to our Lord and to prayer, Exodus90.com slash Matt. All right, so we've got some questions here from our locals and patrons, supporters, which I wanna read. Some of these may have been posted prior to some of the things we've discussed. So if we've already discussed it, feel free to circle it again or not.

This comes from Woodsman, MN. He says, are there other particular low points, good, or crises in Catholic church? Here we go, no, this is good. Are there any particular low points, good, or crises in Catholic Church? Here we go, no, this is good. Are there any particular low points or crises in Catholic Church history that give us clues or further comfort as to how we might come out of the current crisis? Great question. Well, for a more recent one, the Protestant Reformation leading up to it was noted by the protestant reformation leading up to it uh... was noted by uh... moral degeneracy uh... in rome

uh... lack of spiritual fervor the widespread religious ignorance of the people not just in italy but in many parts of of europe uh... and the protestant reformation led to the counter-reformation with the flourishing of the jesuits uh others who, you know, basically launched into missionary and educational work that produced modern Western Europe and the new world, you know, as in places where Catholicism flourished.

So, yeah. I would just probably add I'm not a historian as father is, but Benedictine monasticism, from what I understand the age preceding it was quite dark. But that led to Benedictine monasticism and the flourishing of culture. But again, it takes time. Jay Hill says, it seems like so many of the people talking about church reform are serious, joyless, valuing reverence above all, and many of the modern liberal leaders seem to lack just that sense of reverence and obedience. In my opinion, he says, Scott Hahn is a good example of what a Christian should look like. How can we work towards a joyful, transformational, orthodox Catholicism? Aren't my supporters the best?

They should be leading this interview. These questions are really good. That's a very good question. Well, you know, what's the reason why he likes Scott Hahn so much? Because Scott Hahn is a fervent believer who shares his faith, and he's obviously a man of prayer. He always prays before he speaks. He spoke at my parish. It was great great on fatherhood of saint joseph

uh... yeah joy is a is a byproduct of holiness you know if you strive to be close to christ you're gonna feel reassured that your life has meaning and purpose and that has a direction and that despite your failings you're lovable because God loves you so there you know the kind of thing we try to inspire in children

we have to say well how does how do I find that inspiration hmm I think it before you answer I think of that verse from James where it says what is it man's anger doesn't doesn't bring about the righteousness of God something yes I know so I love it So like God isn't commanding you and I to be really upset all the time and to be really judgmental of everyone around us or to be very angry all the time. But He is commanding us to love one another and to help the poor and to the widow and the stranger. So that's kind of nice. Like actually, salvation history isn't dependent on you being perpetually frustrated. No one's asked you to do that. You don't have to. Yeah, no, I would just add that I'd say maybe particularly in American culture,

it's important to understand. And I speak, I speak for myself as well what true joy is. There's true joy doesn't mean happy clappy true joy doesn't mean that We always have to look at on the on the bright side and never face problems I think true joy is that comes from a much deeper place the kind of joy that's attractive Comes from a light that ultimately comes from from Christ That's right. Cuz that's superficial joy that you're referencing. It's like elevator music. It's very That's right, because that's superficial joy that you're referencing. It's like elevator music. It's very, very attractive.

Yeah. Well, I know that people like elevator music. Only in elevators. Well, have passed the time. Because counter boredom is a big factor in human life. And, you know, we have countermeasure to boredom does include entertainment. Yes. But it also includes being patient with the fact that you're bored at times,

because it can't always be entertainment moment. That's how you learn how to do silent meditation. You basically say, I'm going to waste this time with the fact that you're bored at times, because it can't always be an entertainment moment. That's how you learn how to do silent meditation. You basically say, I'm going to waste this time with the Lord, not expect, you know, I'm going to accomplish much, I'll let the Lord accomplish it. Yeah. Jim Russo says, what do you say to someone about the issues in the church when it is one of their hangups for not coming back to the church. I'm trying to help someone find their way back, but they are having reconciling, they're having a tough time reconciling the current issues the church has. Jesus is always there, you know, I mean the Good Lord may be misrepresented by his delegates,

you know, the priests and bishops, but he's still the good Lord and he's still there Yeah, I would say picking up on that. I think it was st. Catherine of Siena in the who said That God shows God shows his mercy and humility by giving himself to us Even through the hands of sinful priests So we live in an age where former generations, including our own, have not been particularly well-catechized in what's objective and what is true about the church. So I think ultimately, if you can hold on to the reality

of the sacraments, particularly of the Holy Eucharist, that is either Jesus is truly there or he's not there. As Catholics, we believe that he is truly there. And that's reason to hold on no matter what the men of the church are doing, because we do live in an age where we do have particular problems, both because from within doctrine and morals are being attacked. And we have that coupled with the internet, which allows that to be made widely known across the world. But other ages have probably had greater moral decline

among the clergy in some ways. And what gets you through it all, whether you're in that age or this is that Jesus is there. And. Amen. I think also it's helpful to show you go to him and to ask him if somebody is struggling, go before the blessed sacrament. Even if you are struggling with doubts and tell the Lord your doubts, what the devil wants is for you not to talk to the Lord.

The ultimate, whether it's taking your time, wasting your time on the internet, or doing even entertainment, though entertainment is a good thing and has its place, anything that the devil can do to desensitize us and to take us away from prayer is his ultimate goal. So if you're struggling with your doubts, talk to Jesus about your doubts. Yeah, I would also say to Jim, who's saying he's trying to lead someone back into the church, who's having a difficult time with certain things. If those certain things are legitimate, like in a sense, you should be more indignant about these than him.

And sometimes that's a very helpful approach. If somebody comes to you and complains about the sex abuse crisis and all they hear from you is some something perceived to be a justification. Yeah, this isn't helpful. We talk about this. You're just as angry about the sex abuse crisis in the book quite thoroughly, in fact. I thought that was one thing that Father, well, feels very strongly about and covered extremely well. What do you think the primary root of the sex abuse crisis in the church was? Because it's really weird to me. It seems to me that it

might be homosexuality, but I want to know your... Well, the survey that the bishops commissioned by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice showed that 87% or 88% of the victims were post-pubescent males. So what we're talking about here is sexual attraction by male homosexuals, meaning homosexual priests, toward sexually maturing young people. And part of the culture of carnality and immorality is the search for young beauty, youth and beauty. And homosexual activity is in many ways

search for male identity, which has really been misled into an eroticized form. So going after young males kind of like gives them an idea, I'm going to become rejuvenated through this. That's a big psychological discussion. And I've looked at it because I've worked with Courage over the years in New York, the apostate that helps people. But the combination of the presence of a number of male homosexuals who did not feel constrained to, you know, resist temptation, and then once discovered, basically had the assurance they would never be publicly humiliated, that the bishops would shift shuffle them around, that the bishops would pay off the victims and

that will be a scandal for this to be known I say yeah so it was within their interest to cover it up as it was a cover and then let's be blunt some if a bishop did not discipline a priest and he committed more acts of criminal behavior with young people his own

faults would be exposed if he if he went public with this so it was was all, it was a horrible systematic approach among bishops acting in a similar way to basically shield people from knowing the truth and in the process exposing young people to horrendous depredations. I mean the idea that a teenage male is assaulted by Christ's representative, who then uses religious language to justify it, which is what I've read many of the cases and all that these people did. It's horrible. It's the most manipulative behavior. And then for church authorities to treat it as simply a financial matter and

a PR problem. So no, this is a problem. The McCarrick case was a perfect example of this and this went all the way up to the top and, you know, both Pope John Paul II and Benedict failed to act decisively to stop McCarrick. And not only to stop McCarrick from doing further acts, but to publicly identify and vindicate the rights of his victims. So that's thank God, and this is I praise Pope Francis for taking action and also commissioning, or allowing us, yeah, commissioning a study to be done. The study has faults, the Vatican study was not thorough enough in my opinion, but he didn't have a canonical trial either. The pope short-circuited the trial in one sense because

He reduced it to an administrative process. It was an administrative process, which is a canonical thing rather than a testimony public and evidence. It was all done back and then there was never the charges that he was convicted of were identified. It was basically a three-sentence press release. There was never a full record of the findings and the vindication of the claims. So in that sense, secular justice is often more satisfactory because there's a public record. And this is an area of church law that made some reforms. You know, we have Vos Estes to allow you to denounce bishops who are hiding and covering up. But so far Vos Estes has not been applied

100% in all cases and publicly identified. One bishop was accused, Vos Estes' process was given, and he was allowed to retire early, which is ridiculous. Retirement is not the penalty for covering up sex abuse, but that's what the Pope decided to do, and I think that was a mistake. Kyle Whittington says, Father Murrayray what would have to happen in the church that would make you say this is obviously not the truth faith and i'm leaving in other words what would the gates of hell prevailing over the church look

like it would it's that's a counterfactual can happen so and i would never i wouldn't have to answer so i thought that you have a lot yeah thought experiment yeah well it's a thought experiment saying what's the taste of water that is not wet you know you can't God created rocks so heavy he can't lift yeah exactly so I'll say it can happen and you're not going anywhere and yes and by the way that's knowing the Catholic Church is the one true church is a gift from God, and I pray that I stay faithful to that my whole life.

Amen. Amen. Alex says, is there any significant effort in the Church to address the disparities between the way the Novus Automas is conducted in the world today and the orthoprax delineation laid out in the Vatican II documents. Well, if you look at Traditiones Custodes in the accompanying letter, the Pope criticizes priests who don't follow the rubrics in the new Mass. Yes, but then he doesn't. But then himself, he celebrates Mass with no vestments. So you just wonder, it was serious, Traditiones was definitely serious about curbing the expression of the latin mass in the life of the church it's not that serious about stopping rubricle abuses meaning do it yourself liturgy so

what the vatican two fathers thought they were getting a little charge of reform we actually got two different categories and that's one of the reasons why the resistance to the new mass was so vehement among certain sectors of the clergy in the late because they know The reform does not equal abolition of Latin banishing of Gregorian chant Wholesale invention of new prayers rejection of old prayers Etc etc and then reverential customs like communion kneeling and on the tongue now becoming unknown in some places, this is not what the fathers thought they were getting. Yeah, it's interesting because today in the battles today in the church, one often hears of people who want to return to

tradition, oh but they're not being faithful to Vatican II. Well, it would be interesting if the people who are claiming that would actually read the documents of Vatican II, because these sorts of attitudes of returning tradition to tradition are far more faithful to, for example, Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Council's document on the liturgy. Yeah, I suspect that if I actually attended a beautiful... But this is where the arguments fall apart, that is,, as it is in the world, so it is in the church. There are some ad hominem attacks, there are other claims made,

but there's a lack of serious intellectual argumentation, probably because they know they'd lose in the end. Yeah. Nancy Law says, "'What is being done to address the shortage of priests and why aren't priests more open to help from the laity? Okay, two-part question. The shortage of priests is basically due to the decline of faith. I say we're not going to have to worry about that as the number of Catholics decline. Well, no, that's it, you know, the health of a

body is manifested in its vitality, so the health of the mystical body is suffering because of a lack of faith and practice. So, you know, Mass attendance statistics are verifiable, and there, you know, each parish has to report every year to the diocese how many people go to mass in the parish on a given Sunday and then those statistics are compared over the course of history and the decline is significant compared to sixty years ago. So if less people go to church, there are less Catholic schools, you're going to have less boys considering the priesthood and less men who embrace it. So how do you address that? You do what, you know, we see what works in the life of the church. Homeschooling, Latin Mass, Franciscan University, the whole world of the internet Catholic faithful group, whatever it is, and foster it. And then one of my happy experiences is that I got my vocation in college.

So I think Newman programs at secular colleges, good chaplaincy, he's a Catholic college, that's where you're gonna find young men and women who are gonna embrace religious life, priesthood for men. And then good Catholic marriages. Hey families, have ten kids, more chance one becomes a priest. The other question was cooperating with laity, which... Why aren't priests more open to help from the laity? Well, it depends on what kind of help they're talking about, because no, believe me, if I didn't have lay people in my parish, and you mention your wife, you know, priests depend on women just like husbands do, not for, you know, marital life, but for organizational life, you know marital life but for organizational life you know how do I run a CCD program without any women volunteers. So course but if you want women want to say well I want to you know preach at mass and I want to bring communion the six and wait that's not your job the priest job.

I remember when I was a teenager, I felt very unattracted to the diocesan priesthood because many of the diocesan priests in my diocese wore civis, said things like, call me John. Okay, Father John. So I was very, as a teenager in Port Perry, South Australia, found myself attracted to the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal because they lived a radical life and I didn't just want to be a celibate social worker. So I think we're also seeing those more radical in that true sense of from the root growing. So that's, if you want more priests, be holy.

Have a holy parish. Yeah. Okay. Okay, New York Jim says, is the San Galen mafia a real thing or just a conspiracy theory? So why don't you explain what the San Galen Mafia is? Well, yes, I'm probably not the best equipped to do that. But there was a recent book with Julia Maloney.

Yes, the recent book and laid out based based on all things that are I think public. I haven't read the book, but from what I've heard of it, she did a very good job of assembling and putting together everything that is available publicly known about the Sangha and mafia, which was, if you want to explain, a group of cardinals and bishops that... Right, a group of cardinals and bishops would meet in Sangha in Switzerland annually and they were a group of like-minded, basically liberal Catholic leaders, and their goal was to help influence the election of the next pope. And Pope Francis came in second on the

ballot, that's even though they're not supposed to be known because of the secrecy of the conclave. When Benedict was elected. When Benedict was elected in 2005. Burgoglio came in second. And they still wanted him to be the Pope, so they were part of the movement. And Cardinal McCarrick, for instance, publicly talked about influencing people to vote for Pope Bergoglio or Pope Francis for Cardinal Bergoglio and others did. The Cardinal from Willebrand's I think spoke about it.

I have the book for Julian Maloney, started to read it but I haven't finished it. In the end though, it's like anything else in human affairs. If there's organization and you make a good case, you're going to be able to influence others. One of the challenges now we face in the College of Cardinals is they haven't met as a group in I think six years. They don't really know each other, many of them. So when the next conclave comes they're going to depend on other sources of information and for instance Edward Penton wrote an excellent book called The Next Pope in

which he profiles the College of Cardinals. There are other media efforts out there, I believe, to make known who the Cardinals are and where they stand because the goal here is to let the electors know who is the best suit, who would be among the best suited to promote the mission of the Church, having demonstrated he does that before he gets elected Pope. So, you you know deeds not words not somebody gets up to his fellow card and says I know exactly where we need to go and I'll get us there what have you done so far as a cardinal to show that you're promoting the mission of the church Emanuel says what will be and this is a really good and sensitive question what

will be the best method to engage with the priests in our parishes who seem to have lost the sense of sacred and push the liturgical boundaries to the edge of a cliff? I know that maybe they are not bad intended in some circumstances, but they surely damage the faith of the flock. Thank you." So it's a good question, right? Because no one likes to be confronted. No one likes to be contradicted. Just our pride kind of recoils against that sort of thing. So it's not just should we correct or address these issues with our priests, but how do we do it in a way that's actually helpful? And have you had this happen in your own life in a way that's been helpful?

Well I remember as a lay person being upset when priests would bend the rules or do things with no reverence or do things that I knew weren't in the missile. As a priest I try to observe all the rules and sometimes I make mistakes or maybe I'm doing something in a way that could be better. But there are many priests we know out there who don't obey the rules at all. For instance, priests who never wear chazza bulls. They just always wear a stole over an al an album That's not permitted when you're the single celebrant of a mass People do it, you know, so how do you approach that? It depends on taking a stock of what you think the priest will respond to and how he'll respond

For some people it's a personal conversation might be useful others write a letter But you have to go in there with the attitude I'm giving witness to what is right and I'll leave the rest in God's hands because of the priest says I'm sorry I don't agree with you couple go away then you just have to go away start praying more but and educate yourself as well that is Look at the documents of Vatican to look at what's been written so that you go in with a peaceful sort of confidence in the truth and look at your priest as well. One never knows what his seminary formation was, not that that justifies what he's doing,

but to look with a benevolent eye upon him and seek to, even though it's generally the priests who should be going after the sheep, sometimes it's necessary these days for the sheep to try to bring the shepherds back in. If it's a question of validity of the sacraments, then you definitely go speak to them, and if they don't ask, say, I'm going to the bishop. Exactly. Because you don't want, like, we heard this horror as a priest who changed the words of, or deacons changed the words of baptism, you know. Yes. That's horrendous. You know, if they change the words of absolution in the confessional,

they don't say the right word. You got to stop, say, father, that's not the words of absolution, you know. If they start using funny bread at Mass, Father, that's not permitted. Yeah. From your experience, how helpful and necessary is it that the faithful pull their priest aside and praise him for what they see him doing right? I mean, I do that with my children. When I see a behavior I want them to continue, I make sure I pull them aside and say, I really thought that was great that you did that and that seems to be a successful way of getting human beings to continue to do that thing. This is, it can be exaggerated in schools, but positive reinforcement of children when they accomplish the task properly is very useful. Now that shouldn't be the end of the story. The next is, okay your next

child's child is this, but no priests, know, at the end of mass some people say, oh nice sermon, you know, I like that, or your mass is so beautiful, or your church is so nice, you know, priests like hearing that. What priests really like to get is evidence of conversion, you know, some people write a story, father thank you, you helped me, you know, you may not remember who I was. So priests are human and they need some human affirmation. The best affirmation is give money so they can pay the bills, you know. We get a little frustrated when people show up every week and then George Washington's great calling card, the one dollar bill is all they give and you say, no, wait a minute.

This is inconsiderate. The priest doesn't have the money to keep the lights on. That's right. And the diocese may or may not be paying for it, but you're the beneficiary of the service, you know? It's so, you need to give money in church. And people can find all kinds of reasons they don't wanna do it, but reexamine that. Saying in Australia, water's free whiskey costs money.

So if you want something good, you're going to have to put up or shut up. Do you have time for one more question? Sure. You guys have been very, very patient and good. Thank you. Trad and Dixie says, I'd like to know their thoughts on a theory I have. In previous crises, the solutions typically came from the top down in terms of hierarchy, Aryan crisis, Council of Nicaea, Eastern Cism, Latteran councils, etc. etc. I believe that the solution to the current crisis in the

church will rise slowly from the bottom up, meaning holiness cultivated in devout families that will spring a new life in the church over the course of a few generations. A grassroots solution to the reform of the church, if you will. Thoughts on that? Okay, I'll give a yes and no answer, because yes, as they say, politics is downstream from culture, meaning where the culture goes, then the government will end up going. So you can say the religious experience of the faithful, church governance, is downstream from that. So if you have only wonderful priests getting ordained, than only wonderful priest are going to become bishops and only wonderful bishops one of the becomes a pope. That's yet we pray that that happens so then that point yes holiness of life over time but.

In the real order of things in the life of the church there is a political need to fight to control the top you know in other words. If if you know if your bishop in your diocese is not doing a good job. It's not so stable wait till he dies and we pray we get a new success how we say oppose what he's doing. say, oppose what he's doing. There was a diocese we talk about in the book in Australia where the bishop was promoting a sex ed program in schools saying that this was a good thing. The parents rebelled and the parents went to the Vatican and then that bishop withdrew his support for that secular program. So that's an example where you know you can raise holy and good families but if the leadership is undermining you, you can't say well wait till that leadership gets replaced by

one of our sons 40 years from now when he becomes bishop so you do have to fight that at the top now what does it mean for the pontificate you know the Pope talks about parousia gospel frankness tell him respectfully but frankly you know Holy Father we love the Latin mass please don't take it away you know or and that's you know fraternity of, we love the Latin Mass, please don't take it away, you know, or and that's, you know, Fraternary of St. Peter priest went to see the Pope and he backed down on some of the provisions of Tradiciones Custodes. So, yes, yes. So it's a yes and no answer. Yeah, I know, I agree with, I agree with everything Father just said. Yeah.

Okay. Tell us why we should get this book again. The link is in the description below by father Murray and Diane Montana beautiful And don't ask name for you So it I haven't read it yet because it just came out but I'm sure it's gonna be terrific Tell people why they should pick up this book Well, the funny answer is those who want to be in the know need to read this book, you know, but that's is those who want to be in the know need to read this book, you know, but that's, humor is just another way to express the truth often. No, I, this book is an attempt by Diane and myself to help people to deal with the fact that there's

chaos in the life of the church right now, both on the level of experience and on the level of teaching. So we have a whole realm of people out there claiming that they're good Catholics, they support abortion, they support gay rights, they think sex education for children is a good idea, they think mass attendance is when you want to go, a Catholic education, well, I don't know if it's that important. In other words, you have a whole disorder, things that we took for granted, that all Catholics would be against sex ed, gay marriage, abortion, that's gone. On the higher level we have a bunch of statements coming from people like the German bishop telling us that Catholic

teaching is erroneous, needs to be changed. So that's enough to cause people to get upset. We don't want people to be upset. We want them to face reality as it is, but understand the interpretive key is Christ the King still rules through his church, has not abandoned it, and that we can live at peace even in the midst of the storm, because Christ will calm the storm. Yeah, I guess I would just add that for those who have been following what's going on in the church, it will help them to face things with a peaceful heart. But perhaps the need for the book is I think the storm that's going on in the Confucian in the church, maybe isn't known to a lot of Catholics, because they're not really they're not tuned in. A lot of people don't realize the confusion, they're just maybe, you know, they're not well catechized, not through their own fault, but they're not well catechized. And they are more susceptible to being influenced by the various forces within the church that

are trying to change her doctrine and change her moral teaching. So I think also for people who perhaps are not tuned into the fact that there is a storm, it could be very helpful. All right, awesome. Well, again, the link is in the description below. People should definitely get this book because you're supporting good Catholics who are writing good things,

and you're also supporting good publishers who are having the courage to address these things. Do us a favor before you go, click subscribe and that bell button. That way, Google will be forced to let you know whenever we put out a new video. And if this was meaningful, leave a comment below and do us a favor and share it. Thanks so much. Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much.