Pints With Aquinas - Philosopher DESTROYS Nihilism TikToks | Dr. J. Budziszewski | Last Call Ep. 16

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Dr. J. Budziszewski, philosopher and author of Pandemic of Lunacy, is back to destroy the incoherence of nihilism. Pints: Last Call Ep. 16 - - - 📚Resources Mentioned: Pandemic of Lunacy: https://a.co/d/088FHFo7 - - - Today's Sponsors: Relay: Ready to overcome porn? Visit https://joinrelay.app/pints and use code PINTS for 7 days free. Quo: Try QUO for free + get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to https://Quo.com/PINTS - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠ 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. - - - 📕 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://a.co/d/bDU0xLb 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mattfradd.locals.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠ - - - 💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas⁠⁠⁠ 🎵 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas⁠⁠⁠ 📚 PWA Merch – ⁠⁠⁠https://dwplus.shop/MattFraddMerch⁠⁠ 👕 Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com - - - Privacy Policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/privacy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Colorado is trying to silence free speech again. A state law forces businesses to use customers' preferred pronouns, even if they're biologically inaccurate. With the help of Alliance defending freedom, a Christian bookstore and a sports apparel company are challenging the law. But a court recently ruled against them. They appealed the ruling, and with ADF's help, they'll keep fighting another attempt by Colorado to skirt the First Amendment. Learn more about how you can support free speech by texting Wire to 83848 or going to join ADF.com slash Wire. What is nihilism? The proper response to a lack of meaning or truth in society is to create it for ourselves.

The only reason that we can even do what people call creating meaning is that there are some meanings already there. But we can't make something up from absolute scratch. That's just crazy. Destroyed. Dr. Budjushchevsky. Fantastic name. Did you ever think of changing it because you got so tired of everybody? Oh my God.

No. No. But for the first 25 years of my life, I pronounced it wrong. You pronounced it wrong. My parents had Americanized the name. And I learned the Polish pronunciation. I reverted. Who cares? Nothing has meaning anyway.

Speaking of which, today we're going to take a look at nihilists on the internet and see what you have to think about them. Okay. I'd love to understand what nihilism is. You don't believe that something has inherent meaning. And so for me, that's incredibly liberating because it means that we are devoid of circumstance. I just inherently believe that things don't have inherent meaning and that we choose the meaning things have.

I have the belief that when I die, people will come to my funeral, people will argue over my belongings, and two months, three months, two years after I die, I will never be mentioned again. If people are not going to even care to show up to my funeral, why would I let them have any say over my life? And the whole time we're catering it to a lot of beliefs

that other people have about us, and we don't take actions and we put things off for years, decades. because of judgment that isn't real. It's made up. And it's just hard to unlearn that. Believing that things don't have inherent meaning and then that we have the choice to ascribe whatever meaning we want to things has been very liberating for me. All right. So there you go. He's a nihilist and he's happy about it. Maybe what we can do is first go, like, what was right about what he was saying? Well, I'm glad you ask, I'm glad to ask that question because anything, no matter how crazy,

if it's going to be plausible, if anybody is going to fall for it, there has to be some grain of truth in there. Liars know that too. They think they always try to pack as much truth into the lie as possible because then that makes the rest of it more plausible. And what you do is you take that little bit of truth and you twist it. The same thing happens if somebody is making an innocent error. There's something he's got his hands on. This makes me feel differently than you. I don't want to be controlled completely by my circumstances. Gee, I don't know whether people will remember me after I'm dead. The guy says, well, of course all that's true. The idea that you can make up your own meanings for things completely from scratch is wrong.

Why? Well, all right. Suppose that I was once eating a sardine sandwich when I saw some children playing at the playground. And so I associate sardines, the flavor of sardines, with children playing at the playground. And I say, that's my meaning. For me, the meaning of children playing is the flavor of sardines. Well, that's ridiculous, of course. Of course, there are, that may mean what it means to me.

quote unquote, but that's not just what it means. That's not just what it means. Now obviously, I can assign some significance to something. I can say death means a ride on a merry-go-round. And so people think, since I can assign a significance to it, that means that's all there is. But that it doesn't follow from that that that's the only, that that is the underlying meaning that that's what it has. Take, I slap you in the face. There's no way to make that mean affection. I can use a kiss to betray somebody.

And his normal meaning is affection. But the only reason I can use a kiss to betray, the only reason it is effective is because it does normally mean affection. So, no, we can't make up our own meanings. Now, the guy mixes it up with all these other things that have nothing to do with the idea of making up your own meaning,

like whether people will remember him after he's death, dead, or whether he should be afraid of other people's opinions, or whether he should put off making important decisions. Those are interesting questions, but that has nothing to do with what he, with the meaning he assigns to them. You can sort all of those things out without having to decide nothing has meaning. Yes, of course. Trying to cut your head off to stop a nosebleed. Of course. It is true that he shouldn't put off his decisions. It doesn't mean that everything has, that nothing has any meaning except the meaning I give it to it. nihilism. For some, it's just the idea that life has no inherent meaning or value.

This is what's referred to as passive nihilism. Now, some might associate that type of nihilism with the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche, but they would be very wrong. Nietzsche is critical of that type of nihilism because he thinks it turns people away from the creation of value. He was an active nihilist, meaning that the proper response to a lack of meaning or truth in society is to create it for ourselves. So while a passive nihilist might see the world as an empty and meaningless place, the active nihilists would see it as a blank canvas for the creation of something new. So when we're pointing out the passive nihilism in culture, media, and society, we're also pointing to the possibility for active

nihilism to create new values in the world. So to all our fellow nihilists out there, cheers. Okay, fair enough. So this distinction between passive and active nihilism, have you come across this and what are your thoughts on what needs to say? Well, I, I, the different things that he's talking about. Of course, I've come across that particular distinction, passive and active nihilism I haven't come across. But you know, he says, he says, well, you, maybe you, maybe the universe doesn't have any meaning, but you can still create meaning. I'm sorry, if the universe, the only reason that we can even do what people call creating meaning is that there are some meanings already there. I am building a meaningful life with

my wife and my children are grown now, but with my children, with my grandchildren, And that life came into being because of my activity and her activity and partnership. But the only reason that we are able to engage in this meaningful activity and bring something about that wasn't there before was that marriage already existed and it had a meaning and it was a good meaning. And it means turning the wheel of the generations and bringing new lives into existence. That was already there. We can do these riffs, if you want to put it that way, on meanings that are already embodied,

that reality is already pregnant with, but we can't make something up from absolute scratch. That's just crazy. I want to compare absurdism just really briefly to two ideas that it often gets confused with, which is nihilism and optimistic nihilism. So nihilism in its purest form says nothing matters, so why bother? It often leads to despair or apathy or hedonism, where you just chase pleasure because nothing has really any deep significance. Optimistic nihilism says nothing matters, and that's great news. I mean, many people who like just like go right through nihilism into optimistic nihilism,

especially if freedom is a really high core value because it's freeing just to say, now I get to decide what matters to me, and life is this blank canvas and I can just enjoy this ride without stressing that it's some ultimate purpose. So if you enjoy life and freedom is a high core value for you, sometimes you really can just move right into optimistic nihilism and really are thriving. That wasn't me. I had to learn how to do that because I'm much more neurotic and much more of a pessimistic nihilist by nature, especially when I was going through the worst of my nihilism. But for some people with that personality type, it's very easy to just be an optimistic nihilist and just see life as just this blank canvas that they get to play on. Absurdism is different from both.

It doesn't say that we should create meaning, like optimistic nihilism, but it doesn't really say that we should give up, like straight up pure nihilism. Instead, it says the universe will never give us meaning, but we should live fully anyway. It's about embracing the absurdity rather than trying to fight it or trying to solve it. But here's the thing. Absurdism alone is not a full philosophy for thriving life. It is a starting point. All right. That's what she has to say.

What do you reckon? I can see the attraction, right? I can see people being terrified that they're guilty before man and before God, that they can't figure out their life, that they are tired of searching for meaning. There's a sense of relief in which you just sort of throw up your hands and decide there's no meaning anyway. Sure. And pretend you're happy.

Yeah, but you can't really make yourself happy that way. Giving up, you know, the idea, everything is. meaningless and so I'm just going to embrace the meaninglessness of it. There are two things I want to say about that. The first thing is you notice that she wasn't actually giving a philosophical argument for any of this. She wasn't giving a reason to believe that this is true. What she was saying is, well, this is easy for people. This might be a relief for some people. If you have this kind of personality type, this might be attractive to you. That's not the question. The question is, is it true? Now, sometimes the mood that you're

in, the personality type that you have, the experience, the experience, the question is, is it true? that you've been going through may make it easier or harder to recognize and embrace the truth. But we all have this drive that we ought to have. It is a good thing. It is the most distinctive thing about us human beings to know the truth, the truth of things in general, especially the truth about God. Does my life have any meaning what it is? To just give it up is nuts. The philosopher Thomas Nagel wrote a famous article about absurdity in which he said something similar to what the young lady was saying. in which he said that you don't have to despair if you realize that everything is meaningless,

you can just take an ironic view of life which enables you to get through it. Well, if life is absurd, getting through it is meaningless too, isn't it? There must be some meaning there, or he wouldn't prefer getting through it with maybe some nobility or something instead of just despairing. So if there can be one meaning, why couldn't there be others? Why not look for what those others are? And then you've thrown absurdity away.

Were you into Camus? Did you read his works when you were going through your nihilistic stage? I tried to read Camus, and I remember. I was much younger, and I was trying to figure what the heck is he talking about. And I understand now what he was talking about, but no, he wasn't a big influence on me then.

So that idea of not fitting into a system is what we call perspectival. Nietzsche does have one philosophy, which is everybody has a perspective in life, and that perspective actually changes in the course of your life. That's what it means to be alive. Nobody has one set idea. There's no one truth out there. There is no one reality, okay?

And one of his most famous arguments is in the Bible. Okay. Any thoughts on that? When I was in my own Nietzschean phase, I was very enamored of perspectivism. But I wouldn't say, properly speaking, that prospectivism is a philosophy because a philosophy gives reasons for things. Nature just asserted prospectivism. He just asserted that everything, that there isn't any reality, there are only perspectives on reality. Is this another way of attacking the metanarrative?

Yeah, I suppose you could put it that way. But I think G.K. Chesterton made an interesting remark, which bears on this. He said, you know, I might say, well, this is an eastern perspective on the high. This is a Western perspective on the house. Yes, but those are perspectives on the house. There has to be the house there to have perspectives on them. And so to say there are different perspectives doesn't in itself imply that there's no house there. So we want to say, what is the most comprehensive perspective?

Can I take account of this perspective and this perspective so that I can understand what is the house? Now, in our case, that means things like, what is a human life about? Is there a God? How should I live? These questions don't disappear just because you say, oh, well, I've got a perspective on things. And I think he's just overlooking that completely. What did reading Nietzsche do to you? Oh, reading Nietzsche just about destroyed me.

He himself had concluded that once you figure it out, there's nothing left to either, but either to laugh or be silent. But I was even a little more Nietzsche than Nietzsche. I realized that really, if he had it right, You couldn't even, you had no objective reason left either to laugh or to be silent. You had no reason left either to do anything or not to do anything at all. And so I was a Nietzsche and in a pickle, but I thought, well, okay, being in a pickle, being agonizing over this, being a despair over this, that's just the way that it is. There's this emptiness at the heart of the universe and I'm one of these tough ones who

can recognize it and still live. Is there anything good to take out of Nietzsche or not? not that you couldn't take out of anywhere else? I don't, I really don't think that there's anything good to take out of Nietzsche that isn't good to take, that you can't get anywhere else. There are some things that he gets, there are some true things that he says that he then distorts in radical ways. For example, he says that the truth is sometimes painful, true.

Many people comment on this. And then he draws from this somehow, the bizarre idea, that the will to truth is a will to pain. No, I'm sorry. This is just going to mess up your head. My view of Nietzsche is, yes, we sometimes have to read Nietzsche. We sometimes have to study Nietzsche, but it's like the way that we culture diphtheria in our petri dishes so that we can learn cures.

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Quo.com slash pints. That's QUO.com slash pints. People might want to ask someone like Camus, if everything's absurd, and I shouldn't be following a religion or a code of ethics that was handed down to me. How can I ever know what's right or wrong? What am I supposed to just act confused all the time? Camus might respond by saying that religious or not, quote, all systems of morality are based on the idea that an action has consequences that legitimize or cancel it. A mind imbued with the absurd merely judges that those consequences must be considered calmly, end quote. And this in many ways concludes the lesson of the day for Camus. When someone disagrees with you, maybe don't nail them to a giant wooden X and sacrifice them to the

owl god of the forest. No, one of the biggest strengths of acknowledging how absurd the universe is is how flexible it allows you to be in your thinking. You're not less capable of seeing right or wrong. You're just more cautious about what the correct response is. Have a good rest of your day. Is this what you have to put up with undergrads? I sometimes do. But, you know, I have to be patient with my undergrads

because I was even crazier than most of them then. You know, if you realize the absurdity of everything, you'd be more confident about what is really right and wrong. Look, if everything is absurd, there is no right and wrong. To speak of right is absurd. To speak of wrong is absurd. Oh, it will make you more patient and tolerant. No, if everything is absurd, I have no more defense of being tolerant than I have of being intolerant.

There has to be something, there has to be a non-absurd view of life, which shows me what is right and right is wrong, before I can even decide what is to be tolerated. Now, you notice that was an interesting little video sketch because it was not only the words that were said, but also the pictures that were given. They, when religion was mentioned, there was a man with an angry face and shouting. That's the, that's the way they're trying to program you to think about religion. That religion means anger and trying to force people into certain kinds of things by pure emotion and, and without rational argument. Now, he wasn't giving us emotions of anger here, but he certainly wasn't really giving a rational argument either. There was no basis for thinking that this is going to make you a more patient person.

And in fact, what the interesting thing about my religion, the interesting thing about Catholic Christianity is that we have embraced a unity between faith and reason, a partnership between faith and reason, that we haven't said there are no reasons can be given for anything, which is how he treats religion. Are you going to be left without answers about right and wrong just because you have a religion? as though religion is just something beating you over the head with a hammer and saying, do this, do that. There's no reason. That's not what my faith says. My faith is a reasonable faith. Yeah. Well, this is interesting, right, because we're watching these, and I can see how they're appealing to people, but I haven't heard an argument yet. I haven't heard either one. So I wanted to ask you, are you aware of Nietzsche or Camus or any other philosopher making an argument for? I have seen them, not what I consider an argument. I think that if somebody gives a reason

for something that collapses into absurdity the moment it's out of his mouth. He hasn't really given a real argument. Okay, that collapses into incoherence, the moment it's out of his house. What I mean about incoherence is this. Everybody knows what inconsistency is. If I said to you, that point of view is silly, you know, that point of you is not silly. I have contradicted myself. It can't be both, both things in the same sense at the same time. If, on the other hand, I say something like this, everything that everybody says is meaningless and no one can ever recover the intention of the speaker. I want you to understand this. This is on the test. All right. That is incoherent. I'm pulling out the rug from underneath my own claim.

And the absurdist philosophers, the nihilistic thinkers, I use the philosophers here too generously, the absurdist thinkers, the nihilistic thinkers, are all falling into absurdity. I'd like to see it. I'd like to see how can you give a good argument, for example, for incoherence? If the argument itself is incoherent, you've really lost it. Do you think that if God didn't exist, nihilism would actually follow? Or it's so hard to say that. It's saying if God didn't exist, that's like saying if a circle weren't round. But what do you think?

If God didn't exist, there'd be nothing. We wouldn't be here arguing about it. There would be no universe in which we could even discuss the meaning of things or whether they have a meaning or anything like that. But there have been people who have tried to somehow maintain the idea of the idea of the that the universe sort of makes sense in some way. I can form syllogisms. I can say this conclusion follows from this premises, but there's no ultimate reason why it makes sense, which means really ultimately my sense doesn't make sense. And they don't realize what thin ice they're skating on. Now that I think, that I think is partly where nihilism came from. It's certainly where it came from in the sense in the case of nature. He stops believing in God. He stops believing in a first cause a reason why.

everything makes sense, a first sense, a first meaning, a first cause, and then he can't make sense of any of the subsequent causes and effects and meanings and inferences either. And from what I remember, this is going back a few years, Nietzsche doesn't have an argument for atheism. No, he doesn't. And what he says, he doesn't even say that God doesn't exist, really. He's not an atheist in that sense. What he thinks is that reality is really, reality is really not something that he's not something

that exists independently of us. This is something that we're sort of constructing as we go along. This is that weird idea of will to power. And God is, God was part of that for a while and now he's not. So it's not that there is a God or that there isn't a God, but we aren't doing that now. So God has died. Okay. So it's more of a presupposition. It's more a presupposition. Yeah. All right. Let's look at the final one. You're doing really well to sit through all of these. I don't know if you're coming to the conclusion that life has no meaning just by what them but here we go.

So in going back to existentialism, nihilism and absurdism, the difference between them is literally the same difference between the red pill, the black pill and the white pill. Existentialism is like taking the red pill because it's seeing existence for what it is with a neutral emotional tone. Like it's the equivalent of recognizing the terror of life while also shrugging and say, it is what it is. Salavi. Now nihilism is like taking the black pill because it's seeing existence with a bad attitude. The people who take this pill come with the kind of cynicism that drives them to say things like, what's the fucking point? Life is meaningless and we should all just jump off in building. Now last

but not least, absurdism. This is like taking the white pill because it's seeing existence with a good attitude. And this is an outlook reflective of a theme in the myth of Sisyphus, where the character Sisyphus is being cursed with his meaningless objective to roll a boulder up a hill for all eternity. And what he decided to do in spite of this ridiculous consignment is to get on with it. And to get on with it, with a smile on his face. Ha! I really think that this is a lot of this. If one doesn't have an argument for nihilism and chooses to embrace it, I think it's a response to pain.

Oh yeah, sure. Many, well, that was also true of many sort of forms of what you might call proto-nihialism, like Buddhism. Buddhism really says, says, our existence is an illusion. because we're an illusion. Now, what was that a response to? It was a response to suffering. The Buddhist view is that suffering results from desire. Desire results from the illusion that we exist.

You know, the solution to that problem is to get rid of that illusion. It's annihilation. You know, people think that Nirvana is bliss. No, Nirvana is, you don't exist anymore. The illusion that you are even here, having experiences of happiness or unhappiness is gone. But if we aren't even really real, how can you recommend to that, somebody? You'll be better off if you believe this. Well, who is the you? If the you is an illusion, who is the you who's having that. Now, there is one interesting thing about this. He did comment

on the fact that people, he distinguished these different things that he called different philosophies. They're not different philosophies. They don't claim different things. They all claim the universe is absurd. but he distinguished them according to the emotional response that you have to them. Now, it is true that people have different responses. I like to sometimes distinguish, for example, there's the kind of despair that guys like Sartra had. You know, it's the kind of existentialism, the kind of absurdism that guys like Sartre had. Existence is meaningless, and the problem for me is to fight off despair.

Camus said the basic problem of philosophy is, why shouldn't I commit suicide? I wouldn't say that Camus was a very cheerful, guy about this. Yeah, that's the one he says. Yeah, this is a very tragic choice that Sisyphus is condemned to rolling this rock up the mountain over and over and it keeps rolling down and the gods have determined he's going to do this forever. So he does it cheerfully.

Look, if nothing has any meaning, how does it have any meaning that he's cheerful? If nothing has any meaning, how does it have any meaning if he decides to commit suicide instead? Nothing, nothing has any meaning. But, you know, there's this despairing meaning. There's the despairing sort of nihilist who says, oh, nothing is any meaning, woes me. There's the pop culture nihilist who says, yeah, nothing has any meaning, man, and that's cool. I'm so cool that I like life meaningless.

And we heard that in some of the other clips, too. I like it this way. And, you know, there are all sorts of varieties of this. There's the Jerry Seinfeld show version of nihilism. Nothing has any meaning. Where would you like to go for lunch? Okay. You can classify, I wouldn't classify these as different philosophies because it isn't as though they give different arguments here

They aren't giving arguments. Yeah, but I certainly would classify the emotional responses and I think that those are interesting One of the things that they tell you is how far Some so much of this stuff is really nuts in a way and yet it's been absorbed into the popular culture Sartre says nothing you know everything is meaningless and so you know we're all in this state of angst Camus is saying, no, everything is meaningless, and so you have to worry about whether to commit suicide. People today are talking about what kind of sandwich they're going to have. Everything is meaningless, so, no, you know, that's cool. I can decide on my life easier. I don't have to fret about things anymore. It's just been absorbed into the culture as a presupposition.

Now, of course, nobody can believe that things are meaningless all the way down. That's right. I don't think you can live that way. I think it's sort of like when somebody says, I enjoy fornicating and having a string of meaningless relationships and I'm happy. I'm like, I don't believe you. I don't believe you. And I think the same thing is true here. You might be able to come up with a one-minute video on why nihilism could be good for you and a nice idea to consider, but I do not believe that you'll be able to live consistently with that worldview and be happy. No, it's like a lot of other contemporary ideas, relativism, for example. People say, oh, everything is relative. I've had students who've told me that, you know, I said, well, don't you think that what the Nazis

did to the Jews was objectively evil? And they say, no, you know, that may have been right for them, man. nobody can live that way consistently. You can live that way with regard to other people. Yeah, maybe that was okay for the Nazis. You can't live that way for yourself. Somebody steals your stereo and you say, I'm morally indignant. That was objectively wrong.

Thank you for being here. You've just written a book. I want to tell everybody about it. We'll put a link to it below. Why should they get it? Not where should they get it because that's what the links for, but what's about? Oh, the book is called Pandemic of Lunacy.

There is a lunacy. It's much worse than the COVID pandemic. It's not a pandemic of viruses that transmit themselves body to body. It's a pandemic of loony ideas that transmit themselves mind to mind. And this one that we just were talking about, that existence has no meaning or that we can make up our own meaning for existence. These are actually two of the lunacies that I discuss in my book, along with 28 others. So read my book. It's called Pandemic of Lunacy, How to Think Clearly, When Everyone Around You Seems Crazy.

Thank you, Dr. Buda Sestky for being here. Thank you.