Pints With Aquinas - Playing Jesus in THE CHOSEN w/ Jonathan Roumie

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Jonathan Roumie is an American actor known for his portrayal of Jesus in the crowd-funded television series The Chosen. Born on July 1, 1974, Roumie has also played the role of evangelist Lonnie Frisbee in the 2023 film Jesus Revolution. Beyond acting, he is a voice artist and a public speaker. He holds a degree in film from the School of Visual Arts and was awarded an honorary doctorate in fine arts by the Catholic University of America for his impactful work in evangelization through acting. His dedication to his craft and his role as Jesus have made him a fascinating figure in the entertainment industry. Show Sponsor:  Strive 21: https://strive21.com/matt Exodus90: https://exodus90.com/matt Hallow: https://hallow.com/mattfradd  

I will leave water. Do you remember the first time I interviewed you? Yes. Do you know what happened? No. Oh, really? So I you were so gracious to come on. This must have been back in 2020.

Yeah. And I don't know how we got in touch, but you said yes. I'm like, well, it's amazing. I got Jesus on my show and I interviewed you over Skype. Yes. And I was like so grateful. And at the end I realized you were muted the entire time. So it was just me reacting to you like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

And I don't know what to do now. I hate myself. I know. So I reached out to you because I had to tell you because I thought you'd be waiting for the clip to release. And I couldn't just pretend it didn't happen. So I said, I am so, so sorry. And I cannot believe you came back on my show. We did it again.

Yeah. If I were you and you were me, I would not come back on your show. So thank you. Well, I just think what would Jesus do? And yeah, that's there was there was no alternative. They had no other no other course. And then you recorded a little video for my kids. Yes, that's right.

That's awesome. I remember that. I had forgotten about that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for reminding me of that. I find I need to rely on people to like remind me of the last several years because they've been so insane. It's been so overwhelming at times. And I've met so many people and

I've shown up so many places and I kind of have relegated a lot of the experiences that I've had to like being moments that, that when I get to see people again, it's like, hey, there's this thing, remember that, remember this that happened? And I, and I had, because I think my brain just doesn't know what to do with all of it. You know, I think it's,

cause it's attached a lot of the times to like, these experiences and these interactions afterward. Like if I show up at a conference and then I have meet a bunch of people that pour their heart out to me and tell me like what's been going on in their lives and how my work has affected them. It just is like, it sort of,

it puts me into a different mode where all of a sudden I think my brain has to just shut down or just kind of portion away moments of like, you know, solitude for myself to be able to just kind of function. I don't know if that makes any sense. Well, what makes sense is that what you're sharing cannot make sense to most people.

Yeah. Because you're going through something that no one really goes through, like very few people go through. It's very unnatural. So it must be difficult for you to try to convey the chaos and insanity of the whole thing because it must seem to people, well, he's complaining, but why would he complain? Like he's this big movie star, do you know? But I can't imagine what that would be like.

I mean, I go to an airport and I usually see one of two people who listen to the show. I don't even know how you must walk through airports. So do you not use airports? No, no, it's like, I think that kind of thing happens to people that are, well, I would imagine like if the rock walked through the airport, he wouldn't get anywhere. And that's why you don't see the rock in the airport.

And he's so big, you can't just cover his face up. Everyone knows who that is. He just can't put a wig and glasses on. I tend to travel with an assistant or a friend or in some cases like extra security depending on what airport I'm in. There are places where I can just walk completely unnoticed or just if I'm wearing a cap or some sunglasses

or something like that. Like the major metropolitan cities, the coastal cities like Los Angeles or New York, I can fly in and out of there. And if I get hit up by a couple of people, that'd be a lot, which is why I don't mind going there and just kind of, you know, being on my own. And then other places like where we film The Chosen,

I mean, those states in general, they have such a high awareness of who we are. And it's cut, people know in the communities that were there when we're filming and, you know, so we're more in their consciousness on the daily so that when we do show up, it's like people are, I think in some ways, at some points, they're kind of looking, you know,

or they're just keenly aware of when one of us shows up, especially, you know, me being essentially the face of Jesus for this now globally popular TV show. So it's been interesting. When you were given the role, did you have any idea that it would become as big as it has? And if not, at what point were you like, oh wow, this just hit next level?

I think it was when I first went to meet Pope Francis in 2021. The show had been popular, like started to get globally popular for about a year. During the pandemic, we released the show for free as a sort of a gesture to kind of, you know, commit to peace and comfort and reducing the anxiety that everyone was feeling. And so we just kind of gave the show away and that actually, the show blew up after we gave it away for free. Was that the first season?

That was season one. Okay. Yeah. And we had previously charged like, you know, 15 bucks for access to season one. And then with the pandemic, we made it free. And then from that point, we said, well, we're going to just make it free forever on the app. And then now you can find it on subscription services like Amazon and Peacock and Netflix and stuff like that.

But that was when I went to meet Pope Francis in July of 2021 after, you know, it was one of his Wednesday audiences. And after the audience got out, we had a couple of interviews like right there and in the square and quickly I filled up to the point where we had people like pushing people away with a car pull up and it kind of felt like, you know.

They were pushing Pope Francis out of the way. They were pushing Pope Francis like, Papa Francesco get out of the way. And so that was the first moment where it was like, oh, this is actually something now. And like, you always kind of hope as an actor, you like you hope for the kind of global success that a project has because then it means

hopefully more opportunities or, you know, you can afford to feed yourself consistently and things like that. But then, but you never, you never, you're never guaranteed of anything. And when it happens with this show and then the character of Jesus, it's a whole other, I imagine it, I don't know what celebrity was like prior to playing Jesus. So I don't have anything else to compare it to. But I'm pretty certain talking to other celebrities that it's a

different experience than what most people experience. Not better or worse, but it's just different. People have a different connection. There's a different engagement. There's a different encounter that happens when you meet a fan because it's always, it's usually a loaded encounter where there's something that they want to say or that they need to tell you or how their lives have been affected in some way. So it's been a blessing, but it's also like, okay, this can be heavy. It can feel heavy at times. Have you chatted with Jim Caviezel

about the burden of this and has that been someone you've been able to be like, how do you process this? How do you live? I met Jim once about a year ago and we talked a little bit. Like I try to, I think get more of a straightforward like how do I do this? And I think Jim's response has been,

his experience rather was so intense in so many different. He's an intense guy. Yeah, intense guy. And for so many different reasons, and then subsequent to how it affected his career after that, that I don't think there was a straightforward answer from him.

It's like, good luck. Yeah, it's like, let's talk about Jesus. I said, okay, yeah, all right. So I've never, and I think there's been, I've wondered, you know, I've always sought some kind of a mentor in this space to kind of handle this, you know, the burden of celebrity, which it can be.

And I've never really found one. I've had people who have come into my life as friends that have been mentors, but the thing that I've been looking for, like whenever I've asked specific questions of other actors, it's never quite happened. It doesn't land. The request doesn't kind of connect

with your experience or? I think it's a combination of that, or it's like, I don't know. It's kind of like, nobody gives you a handbook on how to do celebrity, you know? And I think I'm just meant to grow through the experience by figuring it out on my own. But if anybody asks me some of the practical stuff,

like what do you do in an airport? What do you do in the grocery store? I'm like, oh, well, this is do you do in an airport? What do you do in the grocery store? I'm like oh well this is what I do you know. It just seems like why like I would share that with somebody who is might be going through that because it's it's uh if you're a bit of an introvert like I am um I'm more an introvert than an extrovert. It's you like you just want to protect yourself you know so that you can have everything you need for the gig itself, for the job itself, for the art itself,

that you're not so frazzled and spent and exhausted mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, that you can't pour yourself into your character. I'm an introvert. People are surprised by that. Maybe they're surprised that you're like that as well. I like the definition of where do you get your energy and what I find is when I'm meeting a lot of people, see I can do good in situations like this where having an honest

conversation, I can do this all day. But if it's a thousand kind of trivial, hey, hey, that exhausts me and then because I'm exhausted, I get irritated. It's not that people irritate me, it's just that I get irritated when I get exhausted and that tends to happen when I have a million different interactions real quickly. But that must be difficult for you because obviously you know, that must be really hard as a celebrity.

Like you're having one bad day, someone bumps into you and you realize, if I don't act the way this person wants me to act, this is gonna be the story they tell everyone forever. It certainly makes you conscious of your behavior in public Yeah, which can be good, but it can also make you less human. I guess. What do you think? I sort of see it as I think how any of the the early Fathers and Saints would have know, regarded things like mortification.

I think it's an extension of that for what we do. Yeah. And it's like, okay. This is your cross kind of thing. This is it, this is part of it. This is where I'm pushing you, this is what you're bringing to people. And there's a price for that, but know that part of your,

this is part of your, it's tied to your reward in heaven. You know, not that I'm doing this for rewards, but like, don't worry, I got you. Yeah. You know, and thank God, because it wasn't always like this. You know, I wasn't, I went through a deeper conversion six years ago and I was And I feel like I'm a completely different person than I was. Like my attitudes have changed towards many, many things that I never thought twice about. Like I used to swear a lot.

I don't anymore. Like it took me like several years to like lose the trucker's mouth. I'm from New York. So it's like you're born with a swear word in your mouth. I was born in Hell's Kitchen, I grew up in Queens and Long Island, and it's just, it's one of the middle class,

one of those, it's how you express yourself, and especially in New York City, there's so much tension, there's so much angst and stress and frustration and people constantly you're constantly fighting for space everywhere you go every moment of the day so it just becomes part of your vernacular until until you you connect to to what's holier than you who's holier than you and what's holier in your life and how, you know, how holiness can manifest itself in your life. And so once I kind of had that shift, everything changed and then just certain things took a little longer and more work to, you know,

eliminate than others attitudes or whatever. And we're always a work in progress, right? There's always more I can do and you know. I'm with you. I felt the Lord say to me in prayer recently that if I would guard my eyes, that is to say not look at every beautiful woman that walks past me and I guard my speech,

that he will allow me to excel in grace and in holiness. Because these are little mortifications. I think St. James talks about the tongue being like a rudder on a boat. And I'm with you. I grew up in Australia. I mean, my wife said she heard more curse words after she met my family than her entire life. And she wasn't being entirely hyperbolic. And that's something I've worked on as well. It's like just modesty of speech.

And it bothers me that it seems more and more today, there are a lot of Christians who are publicly, and I do swear still. It's like just modesty of speech and it bothers me that it seems more and more today There are a lot of Christians who are publicly and I do swear still and I like swearing Yeah, I think part of why I like it and I like people swearing around me. Yeah, is it signals transparency or it signals frankness? Yeah, but what I realized is it's not the swearing I like it's the frankness and the transparency and the idea that one can't be those things without swearing seems absurd Yeah, yeah, and on this journey as well. I and I'm very comfortable around it. I don't look at somebody that that does.

My friends, I'm like, please, you know, like there's no judgment. I'm like, totally. All right. I'm I'm home. Here's like, I think a good kind of phenomenological argument for people who are wondering if they should stop swearing. If you and I and a bunch of folks are sitting around and we were having cigars or whatever And and everyone's swearing like a sailor and they noticed there's one fella there who didn't swear all night He didn't make anyone feel bad for swearing. They just noticed. Oh, that's something you respect. That's right Why something about modesty control I can control my speech. I can control a lot more. It's like when you see when you watch comedians, if you watch

clean comedians, like if they can make you laugh without it, you're like, oh, I just, I end up feeling better. It's an easy laugh. Yeah. You know, but a really wellaced epithet, four-letter word, whatever, in the right context of a joke can be supremely funny. Yeah. And especially when it's unexpected or ironic to the character of the person that's saying it. Like when it's just contrary to somebody's personality and then they come out with it. It's like, so beautiful.

It's so perfect. It can be a beautifully placed, I agree. So you said six years ago, so that would have been about two or three years prior to getting this big cast in The Chosen? No, so 2018, it was three months prior to The Chosen. Wow, oh yeah, I don't know when you started filming. All right.

So what brought about this, what were you like prior? Were you a, you know, a faithful Catholic? Did you convert to Catholicism? And then what was this conversion you're referring to like? So it was a, it was a deeper conversion of my Catholicism. So I was a practicing Catholic. I was baptized Greek Orthodox and, you know, my father's from the middle East, from, from Egypt and the family is Greek Orthodox and my mother's from the Middle East, from Egypt, and the family is Greek Orthodox, and my mother's Roman Catholic from Ireland.

And when we left New York City, we moved to the suburbs, and there weren't a whole lot of Orthodox churches, and my dad, being a Christian in Egypt, went to Catholic school, run by French Jesuits. And so for him, it was merely a matter of just transitioning to this other church. We didn't think about it as conversion or converting. Well let's just go here. I mean it's pretty close and I ended up making my first communion and my confirmation as a Catholic and it stuck. I think when I was in my 20s,

I was kind of dallying with the idea, the romantic notions of the orthodox mass again and the music and the incense. And I was like, oh, I kinda. It's beautiful. I miss it. Yeah, it's stunning. It's so unique. But I didn't feel drawn to revert

or to go back or to just start practicing differently. I just stuck with it and I kind of meandered my way spiritually through life, but always from that point forward, but always had a connection, was looking for spiritual direction. I had a dream that I, a pretty fantastic dream that I think in many ways was a prophetic dream in my, probably my late 20s, early 30s,

where I was still living in New York at the time. And before I moved to LA, and LA was where I booked The Chosen, I had this dream that I was coming from, if you lived in Long Island and you commuted daily to New York City, you took the Long Island Railroad, which is the metro commuter. So the dream was like I was coming back from work or from school at the time,

because I went to school in the city when I lived at home. And I was sort of, I was on the train and then I found myself as we were pulling into my hometown station, I found myself kind of walking alongside the train as it's moving before it pulls into the station. And I was effectively, it's elevated like two stories up, so I was effectively just walking on air alongside this train as it's moving and people on the train were like looking out and their eyes got really big and they were just a little shocked to see a man walking alongside the train.

And then I found myself inside the train and I'm walking through the center corridor, the aisle, and people started dropping on their knees and praying to me as if I was Jesus. And I said, no, no, no, I'm not Jesus. I'm not, I'm not Jesus. Did you have a beard and long hair at the time? No. Okay, so it's not like people were telling you, you look a lot like Jesus. No, no, no, no, not even that.

I did when I was in college, but at this point I had short hair and clean shaven. And so I'm like, what is going on? And they, you know, I said, I'm not, I'm not Jesus. I'm just a dude. I'm just a dude. And then, you know, fast forward like 15 years Jesus, I'm just a dude. I'm just a dude. And then fast forward like 15 years later, I get cast as Jesus and I'm saying these words to people. I'm like, I'm not, I can't heal you.

I'll pray for you, but I can't heal you from the thing you're suffering from. So it was really, really, really strange. But I just, I had attitudes on dating that I no longer have and I had you know I'm you know at this point I recognize I think God's designed for marriage in a way that I didn't before and children and things like that that I just never thought about. I think I didn't even, I didn't even,

I didn't really have a opinion on, you know, abortion as you know, to any great extent. I thought, well, you know, I was kind of on the fence. And then once I had this conviction, which basically came in the form of this surrender moment before I got cast and the children. Was this after the dream or what was the thing that made you want to surrender?

Yeah, so the dream happened in New York. And then fast forward, I'm living in LA for eight years now. And I got to the point where I was basically broke. I was basically broke. I was struggling to work consistently as an actor. And I couldn't get arrested to cater. I was a cater waiter at one point. I drove for a ride share and all of a sudden,

all of these different side gigs just stopped. Everything stopped. And I found myself in a pretty desperate position. And I had been on government assistance for a while to kind of supplement it for food and money. And all of that ran out and I was, I basically hit a wall. I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do

because I don't have enough food for tomorrow. So what's left? Prayer. I dropped to my knees and I had a crucifix on my wall on my little 300 square foot apartment and I just said, Lord, I've been at this for some time. It was about 20 years. I'd been pursuing acting professionally, pursuing it with no other, you know, intentions to give it up. And I said, if this is, if you want me here doing this still, like you've given me these skills, you've given me little opportunities here and there, I've done some big TV shows and some movies and stuff, but if you want me to make a living at this, like you got to step in, like, because I can't even support myself.

And it's not on me anymore. I'm going to give it to you. I know you brought me to this place for a reason. So I trust you. I trust what you're you're I trust your word. I trust your truth. I stand on your word. I stand on your truth. And I surrender everything to you. If that means leaving the business, if that means doing something else, you got to put a fire in my heart for something else, because I don't know what else I'm gonna do. And I gave it to you. And now it's not my problem. And I literally, for the first time in my life and in those eight years of struggle and hardship, I felt a weight lift. Like, I was like, okay, I have 20 bucks in my pocket.

I'm going to spend my last 20 bucks, because literally I was negative, like 80 bucks in my bank account and thousands of dollars in debt, like the whole thing. And I spent my last 20 bucks on a meal. I'm like, all right. And I spent my last 20 bucks on a meal. I'm like, all right. Whoa. And this should be interesting. Let's see what's going to happen next. Because I have no idea, but I'm okay. I'm totally fine. And I got home and I went to my mailbox and I opened the mailbox and there were four mysterious checks sitting there staring me in the face. I'm like what is this? And so I took them up to my apartment night, turned on put my phone in camera mode I started filming myself opening these checks for posterity. Just to like prove that this wasn't some kind of weird

hallucination. Yeah, your memory is not failing you as you think back and romanticize it. This actually happened. It actually happened. Actually you can see this moment. I shared this in a documentary I did called Jonathan and Jesus, which is on Amazon Prime. You can actually see the moment.

I never intended this to go anywhere other than for myself. And so I opened these checks and each one was bigger than the one before it. And by the end of that, I had 1,100 bucks. And I thought, okay, message received, complete utter surrender. Okay, that's how this is gonna go. I'm not gonna worry about my career anymore.

I thought my career was in my hands and I tried to do everything I could to control it. Even keeping God at bay, you know, like, don't worry, God, I'm the Hollywood guy. I know what I want to do. He's like, okay, let's see how that works. You do you, boo, and we'll see how it goes. And then I realized, I'm like, no, please help.

I need help, please help me, God help me. I take it back. I was wrong. I was wrong. I was so wrong. And he's like, you see, see what happens when you just let go of the whole thing. I love that you seem to slip into a kind of New York brogue right there. You see, you see where I can fuck a mafia boss. God Jesus was a New Yorker. What can I say? And three months later I got the chosen and I and my life has never been the same since.

How did you apply for it? And how did you? I didn't. No? No, I had done three short films playing Jesus for our director, producer, writer, Dallas Jenkins, for his church. Okay.

Four years leading up to that. So four years prior, I played Jesus in a little film called The Two Thieves, which you can also find on Amazon. You can, all right, I'm gonna have to look this up to that. So four years prior, I played Jesus in a little film called The Two Thieves, which you can also find on Amazon. You can, all right, I'm gonna have to look this up. Yeah, and I read for the Penitent Thief originally because he has a great arc. And then a couple of days later, I got a call back, you know, to audition again for Jesus.

And I thought, oh, I didn't get the, I didn't get the Penitent Thief, but I love Jesus. So I'll read as Jesus. And I played Jesus six months prior for a company called St. Luke Productions. I don't know if you know them. They do touring shows about saints, like one person shows all over the country,

like student theaters, churches, and these really well-made little one-person shows. And I did a show about St. Faustina, where I played Jesus in all of her visions. And we shot it three days in Washington, this is in 2013, up at their studio. It was a teleprompter, and I'm doing all the passages. They're like, here's the script, but don't worry.

I'm like, they didn't give me anything going into it and they said don't worry you will have a teleprompter I'm like a teleprompter like yeah yeah yeah it's how we do it we just here's a script so you can see if you want to look at something but then you just read it right off the thing and makeup and go Mike okay Faustina so that is that is that available online as well? Listen to me. No, it's. Are you grateful that it's not online anymore?

I'm not gonna say I was still working some things out. I was still working some things out as Jesus and it also wasn't a traditional way you do this sort of a thing. So it's not my preferred way of working, but God love them, they brought so many people back to the church and back to Jesus through the show and introduced the world to St. Faustina and her story

in a beautifully, beautifully done way. And I'm grateful for it. But so that was six months prior to the short film with Dallas. And then after we did that, I did another film the following year for his church, like their Good Friday service. And then two years later, 2017, I did the final one.

And then summer of 2018 is when he called me. He's like, I think we're doing a series. We've got money raised. We're crowdfunding four episodes of this series. It's probably not gonna go anywhere, but it'll be a few episodes of television. What was he calling it? The Chosen?

It was The Chosen. Yeah, and they had come up with this idea to crowdfund it. And I thought, I have four episodes of television. It's the most episodes of television I've ever had. So I'll do it. And then they released the first four episodes. And actually they released a trailer for the first four episodes. And they were still raising money for the back four episodes. And the trailer like catapulted the contributions for the back

four episodes. So that we were able to finish the entire first season within the course of a year. But we shot four firsts in like fall of 2018, winter, and then summer of 2019 we shot the remainder of it. And then had released it, you know, as something you could buy or subscribe to or purchase for the entire season. And then 2020 changed everything, the game changed after that. I want to tell you about a course that I have created for men to overcome pornography. It is

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and I think one of the kids came up and said, we're watching this new show about Jesus. Like it's a new series or something. And you're like, oh no. And I think my eyes rolled. My eyes rolled because we all know the experience of watching a religious movie and you're like, oh dear. I am not just saying this to be nice to you. Truly I say to thee

Totally. Yeah Not just saying this to be nice to you. But when you walked on set as Jesus, it just made sense Mmm, it wasn't jarring. It wasn't like well, this is weird, but I gotta get used to it. It was like wow, that's That's amazing and it's a way more it's it's way more than just your hair and beard, clearly. You know? So, well done. Thank you. Thank you so much.

That first scene is in a bar. Okay. And Jesus walks into a bar where Mary Magdalene is drowning her sorrows and commit, you know, on the verge of committing suicide in our story, you know? We take some creative license. It's based on the gospels. It's not meant to replace the gospels. Calm down,els. It's not meant to replace the Gospels.

It's not, let's just relax everyone. I was going to ask you about this because there's a lot. We live in such a divisive time. Everything is being pulled apart. Oh, you know, like the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the conservatives in America, the Catholic Church, the Jewish community. Like it feels like everything's being sifted as wheat. And it's really like, you're just like,

hey, what if we just did this show where we kind of did a kind of a Alexio Duvina on the Gospels? Well, actually, there's a lot of that. And of course, that's not to say there can't be legitimate criticisms of artwork, obviously, we're not saying that, but it's how have you dealt with that?

How has Dallas dealt with that? He's pretty remarkable in that there's not much that sticks with him. He just kind of bounces off of him and he's like, yeah, whatever. He already knows what it's going to be, what the criticisms will be before we even shoot the scene, I feel like.

There are times where I'm like, this is gonna get a rise out of people, but I get it. I'm like, this is, and we've had actually discussions'm like, this is gonna get a rise out of people, but you know, I get it. I'm like, this is, you know, when we've had actually discussions about like, okay, well, how do we best approach this scene? Because you and I both know that this is going to read one way to some people and another way to other people.

And like, how do we just keep this continually, universally ecumenical, where we're not planting a flag in one place or another, because that's been, for me, in my observations, that's been the reason for the success of the show, it's because it is so universal, it is so beloved because of how it's not denominationally specific, it's story specific, it's Jesus specific, it's Jesus-centric.

It's meant to get you to think about the reality of Jesus' life on earth and what he did that was both human and divine in the course of his life in ministry, and get people talking. And hopefully, if you've never met Jesus, if you don't know who Jesus is, if you've never opened a Bible, this is meant to gauge your interest and provoke interest in knowing more about these people, about this movement. We describe the show now as a historical drama because that's what it is. It's a historical drama about these people at this time, and this man, and our God in this movement.

If you don't accept that he's God, that's your journey. But we're presenting it as this is where, what this story is, and if it strikes something beyond just that of a narrative, you know, a television show, glory to God. Like that's the, I think the end goal for many of us working on the show who are believers, who love Jesus and see him as more than just a person

who, you know, roamed the earth for a few years and taught some things and had some maxims that stuck around beyond his lifetime. No, you know, many of us working on the show accept him as our Lord and Savior and want other people to understand just how profoundly impactful he was to the culture and to the world and why,

and what might the day to day look like for him. And so we've gone to great depths and pains to do the research. What was, you know, first century Judea? What were the concerns of the Pharisees and the Sadducees? And what was Hillel saying about, you know, the Jewish scriptures and how did it relate to Jesus's teachings and how did the Pharisees frame what Jesus was doing compared to what they already knew and how it challenged them And what was the controversies and what did it mean to people who followed him?

What did they lose by following him? What did they gain? So we try to ask a lot of questions through the relationships that we explore in the show in ways that Hopefully bring people just closer to Jesus Yeah, sometimes when I've heard people offer criticisms or I don't find it theologically enriching, I think, okay, fine, like you need to read Thomas Aquinas' commentary on the Gospel of Matthew. But there are a lot of people who aren't there yet

and need a kind of- It's a bridge too far for many people. It's a bridge too far. And it seems like what you're doing is like a gentle way to introduce people to this person of Jesus. I wonder, I mean, how many people hadn't read the New Testament until they saw your show and went, I'm going to give that another crack. I'm going to go buy a Bible from Barnes and Noble.

So many people have been, they grew up with this image of Jesus as this stern taskmaster that, you know, if you, if you're not perfect, you may as well go to hell. It's like, whoa whoa whoa whoa. No. No. That is the opposite. It's the opposite. Look who we hung out with. Who do you hang out with? Prostitutes, tax collectors, cheats, thieves, like people that... And people don't hang out with people who make them feel ashamed all the time. Yeah. So it's not like... Well, yeah, he did hang out with them, but he was always like, you're not good enough, you suck, try harder.

No one hangs out with people like that. It was an affection for Christ. Yeah. Continues. Yeah. And I think being able to shatter those myths for people through the way we're introducing him in the story and introducing his humanity at a pace that has never been explored before. Because nobody's ever done a long form telling of Jesus' story, of even just his ministry

time. Nobody's done that. So in doing so, we're recognizing that people are appreciating his humanity and developing such an affinity for him that when we get to the crucifixion, they don't know, people are going to be beside themselves. They don't even have to see the crucifixion. I mean, I'm assuming we'll see the crucifixion, but you almost don't even have to see the crucifixion, but you almost don't even have to see the crucifixion. Like I'm friends with Russell Brand and he said to me, he's like, he met this guy who is like this hard, hard man, you know, been through a lot and he had said to him, he's

like, he's been watching The Chosen And he's like, he's like, I don't want to see him go to the cross. I like this guy. I like him. I like him a lot. I'm afraid to see him go to the cross, you know? And so when you guys get these big tough guys that are all of a sudden now affected

because they've been developing this affinity, this genuine affection for Jesus, it's like, whoa, that's what it is. That's what we all need to feel. That's what we should all feel about Jesus going to the cross and what happens when he first gets slapped? I mean, I think people are gonna be like, I know that guy.

Yeah. Yeah. Don't slap him. I like him. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting. It'd be really, I'm really curious how people are gonna perceive it and and receive it Even even what we filmed the season for season 5

It was basically it was Holy Week. So, you know Jesus comes into Jerusalem Everything that happens in Holy Week Have you filmed this yet? We filmed it all I just finished it days ago. Okay, forgive me Is this the final season or no? No, no, no, no, no, we have seven seasons. There's seven seasons And what season we we on right now? We just finished filming season five. Season four was just released on Amazon. Okay, wow.

And we had it in theaters for a short time as well. Season five, we go through The Last Supper. I just filmed The Garden of Gethsemane like a week ago. And it's gonna be tough for people I mean it's the beginning of the end yeah do you sometimes me yeah cuz I can't what's your schedule like I bet it's growling and do you sometimes think I hope I have enough in me to in enough in the tank to get through this especially as you go towards the cross that's gonna be personally exhausting but I imagine

spiritual attack and spiritually exhausting. Well, yeah I'm I'm just kind of coming out of this experience. So I'm I don't want to complain too much, but I I'm honestly exhausted last year. Um, well, you look good. Well, thank you That's that's what Ashley Parker my hair and makeup artist does for me. That's This miracles in those fingers. But I'm really excited to get to talk to you and be here. But it is, it was the most difficult two weeks of my career and spiritually, like I think

there was a lot of anxiety. Like, you know, Robert Powell played Jesus and Jesus of Nazareth in an interview. Somebody, you know, asked him the same, similar kinds of questions, like, what's it like to play Jesus, basically? And he's like, it's unplayable, he's unplayable. You can't play Jesus, he's unplayable.

Meaning, like, how do you wrap your mind around Jesus Christ, divinity,able, meaning like, how do you wrap your mind around Jesus Christ, divinity, humanity, you know, hypostatic union, is that right? And so I can't even begin to think about, well, I know what it's like to play divinity, I don't. I only know what it's like to be human and woefully so and failingly so.

And so all I can do is bring the utmost of my humanity I only know what it's like to be human and woefully so and failingly so and so all I can do is bring the utmost of my humanity and my intention to and desire to serve Christ and to honor him and to Get out of the way of the Holy Spirit and and try to understand Through the help of the Holy Spirit and to ask Jesus, what did you experience here? What did you experience sitting at this table? And there's John and perhaps here's Judas. Like, what was that like? What's going on in the pit of his stomach knowing what's coming as a person, as a human? Like, did he have butterflies? Did he, was he, every time he looked at him, did he want to cry? Did he want like, but, so those kinds of things. And then

in the garden it's like, well what does it mean to sweat blood or sweat like drops of blood? Like what causes that physical reaction? What is happening on the inside? What's going on with his heart and his mind as he's wrestling with it to cause such consternation and such physical stress for this to be recorded in the gospel and Whatever that is Lord you have to help me because I can't do this on my own I can't just I can't just manifest this so I surrender it to you and whatever happens I have to accept. But I will try everything I can that I think with my human logical mind, with my

cognitive brain to to to summon whatever those circumstances might have been to affect me emotionally, to be able to give what I can for this scene and then everything else that happens, that's up to you. And I surrender it. And so I had to I mean,, it's the prayer life experience, it's the Christic experience of just saying, I'm nothing without you. And so give me what I need so people can see who you are.

And wanting to get that right and do that right, it's, you know, the first day I think we started filming those two weeks was for the Last Supper and I had my spiritual director, he came out to be with me and, you know, I was sitting in the hair and makeup chair and next thing I know, like I get these massive pains like just shooting up into my ear and I'm like,

it's just anxiety, it's like, you know, at one point I had heart palpitations and I'm like, this is anxiety, it's like, you know, at one point I had heart palpitations, I'm like, okay, I don't know what's happening, but I'm just, you know, and I texted my, my spiritual director who was in the other room, and he's like, I'm saying a rosary for you right now, and 15 minutes it all went away and everything was fine. But I think, kind of speaking to what the,

sort of attacks and things like that, I think the spiritual attacks kind of manifest themselves in so many different kinds of ways. Maybe that's some of it. Maybe that's just physical anxiety. Maybe that's just me trying to do the best I can and not ruin it for Jesus. That's been my state of mind for several months, especially as we get closer and closer. And I'm sure even though I'll have a lot less dialogue once we go into the arrest and the crucifixion

and the scourging, I'll have a lot less dialogue, but I don't think it'll be any less emotionally and spiritually taxing. Yeah, you have to simultaneously take what you're doing extraordinarily seriously. Yes. And at the same time, not take yourself seriously. Yeah.

Like, how do you do that? I mean, Pope Benedict, when he was elected to the chair, said he takes great comfort in knowing the Lord knows how to use blunt instruments. You know, I also had another priest say, Lord, use even my he used a different word to the one I'm about to use. Use even my bull crap as manure for their growth. And I, you know, it's like if you if you felt just

how serious you got to be, it would kill you. Yeah. Like the kind of impact you're going to have, whether you want to or not, is so great that it must be crippling in a way. And yet at the same time, like you can only do it badly. I'm not saying you do it badly, but you know what I mean? I do terribly.

I'm like, how am I even doing this? But your point earlier about the other actor is like no one can play Jesus. So it's like, okay, so I need what's the best level of playing it badly I can do. And then and then yet that surrender. I mean, not only do you as an actor have to do it. Every single Christian has to do that in their own life. I'm going to be the best dad I can be. I fail all the time.

I get impatient with my wife. I get, you know, irritable and every day it's's like well. Thank God. I'm not you thank God You're in charge and you're that's the other thing that's got to be so beautiful like you can't convert anybody Jonathan roomie and neither can Matt Fred Like that's the work of the Holy Spirit Holy Spirit. Thank goodness. Thank goodness indeed So does your what is your I mean do you have significant chunks off? time of rest and then do you come in to film a season and it's just what? How many hours a day is it?

But 11 to 12, 13, 15, depending on how intense it is. And then we do that for about three or four months. And then we have on either end promotion of the series marketing. Yeah, it's been kind of a full-time thing. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. But when I last left my house,

before I started filming in Utah in April, I took a look around and I thought, the next time I see this place I will have completed the last supper in the Garden of Gethsemane and I was overwhelmed with emotion I was like Sorry. Because that means the journey's almost over. And I've spent the better part of six years with my best mate, you know, talking to him and asking him for advice and how do I play this scene and how do I,

what did he go through and allow me even a, a modicum of the experience that you had, even like a percent of a percent of a percent to be able to understand authentically and portray authentically what you went through and When when I don't necessarily have that anymore, I Don't know. I don't know what it'll be like. I mean, I probably I probably be pretty down for a while

I think everybody when you're on a show for so long and then you don't have it, there's a little bit of a depression, I would imagine. You know, like, you know, I'm not trying to project that or whatever or say, woe is me or anything like that. But it's like, oh man, this thing, this ride that I've been on is gonna be over soon. So, despite everything,

I'm trying to be as present as I can every step of the way in a way that I hadn't been even the first four seasons because I wasn't thinking about the cross. I wasn't thinking about the end. I was trying to be present just to what's happening now. Yeah. But especially as I consider the end, I'm like doubly present. It's like my kids, I had kids, they're little toddlers,

all you think is the chaos of, and now I've got a kid who's about to leave home and I'm like, oh no, no. And now it's like that, I wanna be so intentional because I haven't been as intentional as I wish I was. Because we take things for granted as humans, it's just part of our nature, I think. You remember Andy Bernard's line in the last episode of The Office?

Everyone who watched The Office remembers this. He said, I wish there was a way of knowing you were in the good old days before you left them. Mm. Yeah. So, yeah, that sums it up. That sums it up. So. Have you made good friends in amongst your actors? Yeah, yeah, this is something like I don't understand what you're going through, but they do at least more than I do, you know, more than most people do.

Dallas, I'm sure has, I don't know, been a, I don't want to put, I don't want to project. I don't know what it's been like, but I presume it's been. It's been a family. You know, we just, one of the, we literally wrapped it like a lesson, like days ago.

And on the very, I think the second to last day, actually days ago and on the very I think the second to last day actually my last day on the set was what day is this Saturday yep Tuesday was my last day on set okay past Tuesday and the scene before mine there was an actress whom I knew from from Los Angeles I had no idea she was cast and I hadn't seen her in years. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And we met at a time where, you know, especially me, I can only speak from my experiences,

but we met in a class for like, you know, producing web series and just trying to stay busy in between the periods of, you know, unemployment as actors, like how do we create our own content? How do we do things? How do we do this? You know, Like, how do we create our own content? How do we do things? How do we do this? You know, like, how do we do this for ourselves?

How do we get this out there? Our product, whatever that is, you know, is it, do we write a series? How do we write and produce a series? And so I met her in this class, and I know she was doing all sorts of things. She's a very talented actress, and then she gets cast the second to last day

of the season. And I was so excited to see her and we reminisced a little bit and she said to me, she's like, you know, I came onto the set like not knowing what the vibe was gonna be because it's the end of the season. And normally when you come on, you can feel the exhaustion. People have stopped being nice to each other.

They're like, let's just get this over with. Oh, I bet. I can imagine that. And she's like, I was shocked. Like you guys, you're a family. I said, we are, we are. And every season we grow closer and closer and closer. And another one of our actresses who's a regular, she came on early in the season

and then she came on again towards the end. And she's like, it's not changed. You guys are still smiling, upbeat, loving on each other. I said, yeah. And I think it seems that's such a rare experience for people, especially in our industry. And I'm so proud of that, because it just speaks to the spirit of,

you know, the guys running the show, everything kind of trickles from the top down. And so like when we're all on the same page about what we're trying to do here, and the fact that we're kind of operating outside of the Hollywood system, we're doing to do here and the fact that we're kind of operating outside of the Hollywood system, we're doing everything on our own, we're beholden to no one but the creators of the show, and our fans who have, and people who have contributed to the show to make this happen,

I mean it's essentially fan-produced, it's unheard of, and I think it's the only kind of a show by God's design that could do something like this so successfully with such a reach because it's for him, it's not for ourselves. It's not for just sheer mindless as appreciative as I am of mindless entertainment. It's not just for that sake of just entertaining people.

It has to be entertaining, necessarily, in order to be successful and to reach more people, to introduce Jesus to more people, that's part of the plan. But it's not, I think, it wasn't the goal. The goal was to, I think, glorify God and do it in a way that is rightfully, artistically possessing integrity and quality that we haven't seen before in the genre. You put your finger on that, that's exactly right. A lot of religious movies feel tiring. You wish you liked it,

like you wish you liked vegetables or something, but you don't, and so you have to try to. But when I put on The Chosen, I remember realizing when y'all were way bigger than I thought you were was when it was on Delta. Mm. Yeah. With the fact that your show is so big that Delta Airlines puts it on their show. I was like, oh, wow.

It's you know, people don't think they should like it. They end up just liking it. Yeah. What are you what are unimpressive things you do for relaxation? Mindless entertainment. Yeah. I mean. I always ask people this because when I ask people, what do you do for relaxation?

I'm so afraid they're gonna say, read Shakespeare. And I'm like, what are the things that are like, this is tedious, but I, whatever. This is what I do to show up. I'm trying to build out a little entertainment room for myself for the first time in my life. And so I'm trying to make it like my own little theater experience. I love movies and I don't get to watch enough movies.

I don't have to get to go to the movies. Going to the movies now is a slightly different experience. You know, I kind of have to hide a little bit. Yeah. And so I'm trying to bring the experience home and I just love doing nothing. Just sitting and just decompressing. And because I don't get to do it a lot now, like I haven't been home more than three weeks since October.

I've been just all over the place. And so just sitting and doing nothing is like sounds really appealing right now. You know, what's funny? The Apple watch has this feature where they encourage you to close your rings. Really? Like the exercise ring, the movement ring. What I think they should have is a feature

where you try not to move any of those rings. Lay in bed all day, that's the goal. Oh man. Please relax. I start to get, I start to feel guilty if I'm too lazy for too long though. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. You know, at least in my experience, if I go and I say, I want that the gospel to 3000

people and I feel like the Lord was at work at that. I feel like so like, ah, I feel the Lord's love and delight that I have the freedom to then just go. Yeah. But I'm, but I'm with you. I take some rest. I know people who seem to well, there's a difference between vegging and recreation. Like we all know the difference between doom scrolling for 15 minutes and then feeling more exhausted.

Yeah, and then like putting the phone and computer away and like reading a book or having a cigar or going on a hike. Like, yeah, one thing brings recreation. The other thing my heart rate isn't increasing, but I'm more exhausted when I'm done. Yeah, no, that's a really good point. I'm trying to detach from the phone more. But how do you do this when doing what we do? And it's like, letting people know, like promotion, like letting people know there's a shirt now that like people have been asked.

Tell us about it. Tell about the shirt. Yeah, this is this shirt here. I wore this I'll show the actually a direct quote from Jesus of Nazareth and the chosen season 7 The Catholics gonna love that's right the Catholics And then Man I mean I say to you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life Within you John 653 so when did you come up you came up with that? I came up with this for the Eucharistic Congress Which I was at which was pretty phenomenal you were at that as well

But I've heard wonderful things and I was so proud to all the organizers. Oh, man I mean it's something who kind of works not in Hollywood I guess but adjacent to Hollywood were you impressed at the production value hundred percent. It was like, I'm like, okay, this is how you do it. This is the way to do it. So getting to be there, I was literally, I had just finished filming The Last Supper at like two or three o'clock the morning of, I was supposed to speak and went home and I packed the bag,

went to the airport, flew over there to Indiana because we're in Texas and spoke that night and it was electric and I thought, well, I'm talking about the Eucharist. Let me just wear something that might be appropriate. And so of course, Flannery's quote immediately comes to mind. I'm like, that's a little edgy. I'm like, do I do it? I'm going to do it. You know? Yeah.

And so I wore, I just wore everything in white and, and I got so many people like even Bishop Barrington would be like, Oh yeah, I love that shirt. How could I, can I get one of those shirts? I said, great impression. you sure, I'll make you sure. And I thought I'll have one of my, the guy that made me this shirt, I'll have him send them one. And then everybody kept talking to me about the shirt. I was like, oh, that's cool.

It's a hit, great. It wasn't a complete fail. And then I start seeing comments about it. And then all of a sudden, the next day, I see people posting in like groups on Facebook, people sending me screenshots saying, hey, I'm making this shirt if anybody wants it. It's like the one that Jonathan wore.

I said, wait, hold on a minute here. Is there an opportunity, Lord, I'm missing out? Am I meant to get into the apparel business? Apparently I am. So I thought, okay, you would guys, let me make you a real one. I'll make you the exact thing that I wore with the thing that's on the back,

because a lot of people didn't realize there's something on the back. And I'm gonna put a little identifying, unique logo on the inside that nobody else will have. And it'll be the same font, and I'm a bit of a design and art nerd, and I'm a former illustrator, and so I feel very protective of artistic elements.

My first jobs in the film industry was, before I became an actor, I was in production. So my first job after I did my work as a PA was in the art department, so I was a set decorator. And so I was always bringing in my art skills wherever I could. So I'm very protective of anything that I do that has an element of artistic integrity or design to it. So I thought, well, let me just give them the right one. I do that is that has an element of artistic integrity or design to it. So I thought, well, let me just give them the right one,

the one that people are asking about. And on Thursday, I set up a shop at this, my buddies who made it from a red letter apparel company and there's a link on my website, jonathanrooney.com. If you just scroll down, you'll just see a link to the shirt. We'll put a link in the description below too. Oh, very cool. So on YouTube, people, Josiah remind me of that.

We'll put that in there so people can click that and buy it right now. Oh, awesome. That's great. That's awesome. Yeah, and- It's cool because it's edgy. It's also not something that's said by a bishop,

but by a brilliant American female writer. Yeah. It kind of confuses people, you know? She was a fireball. Yeah. And so, and it's been a conversation starter. Has it? And yeah, and so, you know, of course,

I have a lot of fans who are not Catholic, you know, a lot of Protestant brothers and sisters that are fans, and a lot of people don't understand the quote, and then there are people explaining the quote, and then there's reactions to the explanation by non-Catholics, and I started realizing I started realizing like okay this this let them sort it out this is gonna be this could get this could get dicey and get tricky you know because some people were feeling that they're this is a diss to Protestants and

I said it's not it's not a diss at all it is a statement of an individual's faith right Jesus Nazareth won't wear this on set you're a different person to it's not a diss at all. It is a statement of an individual's faith. Right. Jesus of Nazareth won't wear this on set. You're a different person to Jesus of Nazareth. It's okay that you have opinions. Jonathan can have opinions. And I think I can also support something that somebody said that reflects their personal opinion about their faith and, you know, and agree with that without saying, well, this is at the expense of what everybody else thinks or, you know, in spite of what you believe that this is, you know, I'm not, so it's, it's all about like, this is how much, this is how

intense she believed in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, body, blood, soul, and divinity. And this was her very unique way of expressing that in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, body, blood, soul, and divinity. And this was her very unique way of expressing that in the context of a situation where she felt that she had to defend her beliefs. And I applaud her for it. And so, yeah, I wanted to, a lot of people had never heard her say this, and Catholics didn't know who she was. And so, you know, I realize it's not just, God never does anything with me kind of like haphazardly,

I see like, he doesn't give me a role on a T-shirt, on a television show as an actor that's, you know, on some other network playing something of no consequence. He gives me the role of a lifetime playing the most important person that ever walked the face of the earth. No pressure. That becomes a way into him, right?

A way into discussing who he is and sharing what I feel about him and what I know about him, what my experience has been with him, my transformation has been with him. Same thing with this T-shirt thing I'm realizing. It wasn't just, hey, here's an opportunity for you, son. Oh, thank you, God, I got some, you know,

I can sell some t-shirts and maybe, you know, do some good with the money. No, it's an opportunity now to bring other people into dialogue about what this means and What the Eucharist actually means Peter craved has a quote about ecumenism Something like when a maniac is at the door feuding brothers reconcile Mmm, and there's a lot going on in our society today. That's damaging society. That's bad for people It's lovely to see Christians go. look, we all understand, we disagree,

but there's stuff we agree on, right? Yeah, okay, all right, well, let's just talk about that for a moment. We can talk about what divides us later. Certainly not saying it's unimportant, but we can also focus at times on what unites us. And I think that's what The Chosen has done. I think y'all have done a really good job,

for the most part. I haven't followed everything, but not being unnecessarily divisive. Yeah, why not? Yeah. I'm just kidding. Yeah. You know, you're not-

I agree with you. Now, so I wanted to ask you, what was it like going on The View? Cause I would imagine you would have thought, oh, could be a minefield, but you seemed to handle it. You did handle it really well. Min, have you checked out Exodus 90 lately?

If you've heard of Exodus 90 before, you're probably thinking Lent and cold showers but the Exodus 90 app offers so much more. It's a daily companion to help you grow closer to God and to become the man you want to be. I've been following along with the app's daily scriptures, reflections and prayers and it's awesome. On the app you'll learn more about Saint Michael's Lent which starts August 15th and leads up to the feast of St. Michael the Archangel on September 29th. St. Francis received the stigmata during St. Michael's Lent in 1224 and he observed this sacred time out of his profound devotion for St. Michael. Join the men of Exodus 90 and Father Carlos Martins, a renowned exorcist and host of the exorcist files, who

will serve as a spiritual guide for St. Michael's Lent this year on the Exodus 90 app. We will awaken to the invisible realities and enter into the spiritual battle that rages around us all the time. Go to Exodus90.com slash Matt for a 14 day free trial to the Exodus 90 app and to learn more about St. Michael's Lent. That's Exodus90.com slash Matt to join us for St. Michael's Lent starting August 15th. So I wanted to ask you, what was it like going on The View?

Cause I would imagine you would have thought, oh, could be a minefield, but you seemed to handle it. You did handle it really well. Thank you. Yeah, you know, I think, I think for a millisecond I was like, oh, I wonder how this is gonna go. But I was never worried. I prayed about it, of course, and like everything else that I've committed to on this journey, I have to surrender it. I'm like, Lord, you've given me this opportunity. It must be for a reason. So I'm not gonna worry about

the consequences. I'm not going to worry about anything. I'm just going to go authentically be who you made me to be and just be present to people. And the, uh, the response was overwhelming. Um, it was unexpected in many ways. And what, uh, and especially for people watching the show, they're, people were more nervous for me than I was nervous for me. I'm like, well, they're people, they're just people. And afterwards, after this segment, I had conversations with every one of the hosts

and they were lovely. And what I realized is there are so many people that are just on a journey. They're searching. They're searching. They don't necessarily, they may not necessarily believe. They may not necessarily know what to expect. But they're searching and they were open to what I was bringing to them through the Holy Spirit.

And that's the main thing. I gave rosaries to everybody, like everybody. And they happily accepted them. They happily accepted them. What did Whoopi say? She was, I mean, she was great. I mean, she's met Pope Francis, I think twice now. So we're neck and neck.

So I gotta beat her. I gotta one up her. I gotta meet him a third time before she does because otherwise, you know, that's it. My reputation is shot if she yeah and do you prep for like what if they just try to corner me on some of the things the church teaches that are you know heretical to secular dogma were you afraid that they might try to do that and did you have a plan ahead of

time or I think you know I think like most interviews you go into like you hopefully have a conversation with the people that you're gonna talk to or their producers and just say, hey, if something comes, this is what we're holding, this is what we're looking for. But it's a live show and you just don't know. But I didn't worry about it.

And Whoopi's been kind of a friend, she's become kind of a friend as well. And I think I felt even before that, I felt like, I think it'll be fine. And then if something does come up, and there was kind of a, I think there was some kind of a question that got a little bit tricky, but I just, you know, I try to answer with as much compassion and wisdom as the Lord allows me. You know, I think you have to decide

what platforms you're willing to discuss, knowing that anything and everything might come at you in the spur of the moment and just try to be... just try to really... I mean, what would Jesus do? Like the bracelets from the 80s and 90s and things that are like making a resurgence now, like... it really is the phrase, it is the ultimate universal inroad into handling anything. If you think about any situation, if you just ask yourself that question, okay, it kind of answers itself. Everything resolves itself. If you know how to

answer that question, the thing is knowing how to answer the question. Having a right mind, a right attitude, a proper and correlative disposition to Jesus' heart. That has to necessarily inform your answer when you ask that question. Other than this one, are there interviews you've regretted saying yesterday? Have you got an interview where you're like, oh, that went sideways? And second, to follow up on that, like, does the chosen try to keep a reign on you? Because if you, you know, if you go on a show and you don't look, yeah, someone tries to make you look bad or if you say something accidentally that was stupid, I guess that doesn't reflect well on the show.

Yeah. Do they keep a leash on you as a? No, no, I think I think they trust me. They. Do they keep a leash on you as a wolf? No, no, I think they trust me. They, Alice and I are friends for 10 years now. Yeah. And they know my heart and they know my skill and they know my disposition. And I think I don't think that I would go into an interview

if I knew somebody was specifically harsh for certain things to certain people. Somebody had a history of asking really awful questions to their guests or really cornering them and things like that. Well, then I probably won't do that show. Like why tempt fate? Why give the devil an opportunity to dance.

But I'm not afraid to talk to anybody that wants to sit with me. I think like anything, through civility and proper discourse and we can have conversations, let's just have a conversation. And this is great, I'm really excited to get to be here. Yeah, thank you. Of course. Yeah, and I don't think I've done anything that I regret,

no. Yeah, praise God. I'll just sit, like I said, I mean. Oh, that's always, like is this specifically? Jesus went anywhere he was invited, right? Yeah, but he was Jesus. It was. So I mean, but I all have Jesus within us

yeah yeah all the Holy Spirit but the last time I overturned tables in the temple people got pierced oh and I was like would you go on Joe Rogan show why not yeah yeah so it's not like this different yeah no and I mean you know I'm becoming increasingly he seems very interested towards Christianity these days he seems like he's grown in this area, which we all really appreciate. Yeah. I think, yeah. The question is would he want to have me on his show?

That's for these people that we're kind of referring to whoever they are. Yeah, these big men folks. That might be hostile towards people that have my beliefs, would they even care to have me on? And if they care to have me on, would they even care to have me on? And if they care to have me on, well, why do they want me on? Is it just to try to make an example of me?

Is just to try to like pick on me? Cause that's gonna reveal itself pretty quickly. And so I think, I think as, you know, well, I think, wow, it'd be kind of cool to do certain shows. I, you know, I'm not, I don't care. Like if somebody wants to chat with me, I'm happy to chat with them.

You know, if I can make it work, great, let's have a dialogue because inevitably, I think God will reveal something in that conversation that somebody watching will pick up on and maybe a word that they need to hear to further their own relationship or their journey or even explore, you know. If every single scene of The Chosen was lost except one, to further their own relationship or their journey or even explore, you know?

If every single scene of The Chosen was lost except one, and only that one scene would remain till the second coming for people to see, what scene in The Chosen would you want to remain? What are you most proud of? I would have to say... And you haven't filmed the whole thing yet, but yeah, I don't know what you have what I filmed I would have to say the Last Supper Because of what I endeavored to to bring to it spiritually at the institution of the Eucharist I Really I prayed over that I prayed prayed prayed over that scene so long and

So many people were praying for me and I tried to do it as if I was there, you know? Pretending obviously to be Jesus, but like showing these guys for the first time and letting them hear for the first time what I meant, meaning what I said. That's deep, yeah, that's heavy. And it was, it's, he's gonna knock people out. I remember when Tim Staples did a debate with a particular Protestant, he said something like, when Jesus says this is my body, when you get down to the Greek, what he's actually saying is, this is my body.

That's what he meant. What he said is what he meant. Yeah, that's going to be I would imagine that as a Catholic or if you were Eastern Orthodox, somebody who believes that the Eucharist is not merely a symbol. Right. Yeah, that's got to affect how you play that part. How can it not? How can it not? Yeah. We even had a photo shoot recently,

which was a few days afterwards. And photo shoots are very different. You don't necessarily know exactly what you're doing until you get there. You have an idea, but you don't know exactly when and how you're going to do the thing, as opposed to like, okay, I got this on a TV show, I've got this scene coming up,

I'm prepping from now until I show up, so that when I show up, I'm emotionally disposed to what needs to happen in the moment. With still photography, it's different. And so we had some photography where it was that moment. And I kind of just had to go with it because we were on a time crunch,

we had all these different things. And I did it and it looked fine to me. I'm like, it looks fine. And they're like, that was great, that was great. Thank you so much. And I just said, hold on. I just, just give me another minute. to I need to go back into that place and come back out of it and we've come and then and then we'll let's just shoot it again and so I went

back into that place and did it again and it was night and day really and they like the people watching it like their countenance shift they're like Thank you for doing that like we didn't we didn't think that that we thought it was it was great but this was different this was like okay I said that's what needs to come through in the picture that the importance of that the importance of the theology the importance of his words has to come through in the still photograph because it's just a snapshot and I'm glad I did it. Yeah what's that like when you want to retake a scene because you know you

could have done it better but they're like Jonathan enough's enough we got to move on and has that happened or? I'm never indulgent, but if I feel strongly about it, Dallas knows that if I'm glitched, that there's something that we need to revisit. There are times when I have to, I need to do it again and we are running out of time or we're in overtime. When you're in overtime, it's not just me that's in overtime it's 150 200 people that are all in overtime and so that's costing exponentially more. Yeah. Yeah. But I know

depending on the moment the sacredness of the moment that it has to be done right and he knows it has to be done right. And he knows it has to be done right. And while it might be a little painful to do it again for a third time, I rarely do it more than two or three times. We're not that kind of a show. We don't have that kind of, you know, indisposable budgets. But if I need to do it again, I'm going to ask for it.

And we'll do it. And more often than not, it will have been worth taking that extra moment. And it's like, okay, yeah. Sometimes you'll do it and it's like, he'll say to me, I'll say to me, I actually liked your first take, but I'm like, okay, well, thank you, thank you for letting me,

at least I had to try something that felt different because you can't see outside of your face. You don't know what you're doing. Great quote. You know, you can't see. I'm gonna make a shit that says that. You can't see outside of your face, Jonathan Rumi. You cannot see, contrary to popular belief,

you cannot see outside of your face, said by me. So unless I'm watching a monitor all the time, and again, that takes time, then you're doubling the time. You're going and looking at the take from start to finish. That just took three minutes. Now you gotta take three minutes to watch it. But if I need to see what I'm doing,

or there's like a frame or something that needs to be happening in this frame, and I need to know what it looks like to see if I can get it to look better, I'll ask to see it again. Or especially if it's something that's extremely nuanced, where I wanna make sure something was coming across, I will look at it

and then as long as I see it as well, like if I know I can do something more, even if he's like, that was great. I'm like, let me just try this one, it's really important for me to try this one thing. He'd be like, okay, let's do it. I mean, that's really a sign that you haven't given up on the art yet.

Oh, never. As you say, I can see people getting towards the end of a day, being like, look, I'm just gonna call it a day. That's gonna be enough for me. Yeah. But to continue to have that attitude of, I could do that a little bit better, that's a sign that. Yeah. Well, I mean, as an artist,

it's like, you are your own canvas. Like you are your work. People see that thing. And if you give up, they're out. The minute you stop trying, they're disconnected. The minute you stop trying to be authentic and true and real and grounded and personal and intimate, nobody cares.

You've lost them in the story. Yeah, yeah. People have asked me if I get sick of doing this. I'm like, no, actually, like legitimately, unironically. No, I love it. I love talking to people. And if I stopped being interested in other people, I should definitely stop.

You should do something else. Yeah, I should definitely do something else. You know, I know, I think both Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson say they don't, that's for you, that's for us. Oh, thank they don't that's for you. That's fresh. Oh, thank you Yeah, I should have told you there was water here. No, it's okay No, there's no water. Is there a water bottle over there? Josiah do you mind? Yeah The two of them say they don't read their comments, you know, Joe and who Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson don't

Don't read their comments, you know the comment section, which is a great way to stay sane, you know, because I don't know if you know much about Tucker Carlson, but he's got that big laugh that's very unique to him. And you'd go neurotic if you were to try to adjust your personality just so so as to be palatable for everybody. You'd end up being palatable to nobody. Everyone is boring. You'd be bland. but everyone, you'd be boring, you'd be bland. So I suppose how important is it that you rely on people like Dallas and others to tell you, and you gotta trust them, as opposed to, you know,

everyone's opinion online or whatever. That's exactly it. I mean, I trust Dallas, he trusts me. I mean, we trust each other implicitly, but there's also the intercommunication as artist to artist, you know? Yeah. You're both, there's, it has to be a collaboration. And I know he's got the bigger picture in his head

as to what needs to happen over the course of not just one season, but seven seasons. So this, the arc of the story. He sees the arc, he knows the story beats in season six and seven, I don't. So he knows how it fits, and he knows what he's shooting next and what he shot before, and he's editing everything in his mind as he goes.

But I also, he also trusts me to do what I do, which is keeping track of the emotional beats and kind of knowing what level to kind of pitch things at and will this match and making sure I converse with him to say, hey, is this too much for this scene? And then you have other characters in the scene as well, like all of it has to be like a really well balanced meal. You know, like everything,

you can't put too much of one ingredient or another because one will overpower. And so having that trust is, you know, it's so, I mean, it's implicit in what we do that we have to do this with trust otherwise. We won't get anywhere and it won't be done in the way that it deserves to be done. But that said, I think it's important to know

that you have a voice and you have the ability to contribute and if you come up with ideas, oftentimes there'll be, you know, I'll have an idea about something that he might not have thought of that could be funny or could be cute or might actually be a way of sort of truncating like a paragraph say well what if I just did this gesture instead of saying all this that would like make it it'll make this a little more succinct or whatever it is and

and he's open to that as well you know at the end of the day and I I tell him this even when especially when if I'm taking an extra take or two or something, I wanna try something else. You know, I said this the other day, I said, you know, at the end of the day, I'm always just trying to serve the story. Just all about the story. It's not about me, it's not about indulgence.

And he's like, oh, of course, of course. Like, there's no question. But sometimes you're in a situation where it's like, what was it the other day? I was in a, the emotional environment that I had to be in for this one particular scene was just very shut down. And I have to live in that space

in order to authentically convey that in the scene. Yeah. But sometimes it can come off to other people that don't quite know how that works in a person. It can come off as me, Jonathan, being shut down to people or standoffish or whatever it is. But I can't worry about that. I just have to operate in that space and it does affect interactions.

Because you've got to get in that headspace not just for the scene presumably, but when you're having lunch. Is that right? You've got to get in the headspace apart from the scenes? Sometimes. Depending on how soon we're going to shoot certain things. If I don't have to live in a certain space, like I'm not, I couldn't do what Daniel Day Lewis does, which is to live in a certain space. Like I'm not, I couldn't do what Daniel Day-Lewis does,

which is to just live permanently for months. Like I don't know, that's some kind of gift where you can not come out of a character and live as that person for 24 seven. It's exhausting, it's exhausting. And then still have interactions And so it's one of the reasons why I don't I I don't often Have lunch with the whole crew because if I have to stay

In a certain space while I I might not be Thinking I'm Jesus while I'm having lunch in this space where I'm shut off from people I have to still be accessible to that that moment where I have to be shut off as Jonathan to play Jesus shut off. Like whatever's happening in real life, I have to bring that, that's how what I do to bring, that's what I bring into playing Jesus. The current circumstances of however I'm feeling

have to match the scene in order to read as as authentic and compelling and and people believing what I'm Saying as this character and so to do that. I need a lot of focus and isolation oftentimes and so I think you know there was this this one scene of the other night where it was That and I think it kind of shifted a lot of people on set because I think people weren't sure like if I was okay pissed off or something like that you know what I mean yeah yeah and um I think once once we call cut I the facade comes off and everybody says oh he's oh oh he was working. And I'll occasionally just say, hey, just a reminder, I was working,

it was a tough place for me to have to work, but thank you for giving me the grace to do so. And knowing that, and it's like, of course, like, yeah, of course. But sometimes you don't know because it's such a weird thing. So it's a weird, it's such a weird art to be able to to do with any Level of authenticity because it involves you personally

Behaving differently sometimes to people. What's the difference between a good actor and a great one? You mentioned Daniel Day-Lewis. He is out of this world terrific or was before he quit So to make his quick few times he may come back again. I don't know I think I think the level of your commitment to the truth. A lot of people have this misconception that actors must be great liars. You can't trust an actor as a person because he's a professional liar. No, no, it's the antithesis of that. He has to be a professional truth teller in imaginary circumstances.

It's telling the truth in imaginary circumstances. And how do you tell the truth? If you can't tell the truth and be truthful as a person, you'll never be a good actor. You'll never be able to tell the truth as an actor. And people know that. They respond to it. Even if they can't, you know, dimensional you know linguistically like they can't describe what that what it is that compels them to watch an actor it's like usually it's the truth of whatever that

actor is bringing to their character whether it's their own personality you know like their own who they are off-screen is the same as who they are on screen there's a lot of actors, that's their thing. Daniel Day-Lewis is not one of them. He's one of those guys that he puts on a new face every different show he does. I aspire to do the same thing, and I hope when I, you know, if I get to do more, like prior to The Chosen, I had done a variety of different characters on television shows that were vastly different. That's

the kind of work that I like to do. Even I did a movie called Jesus Revolution where I played this preacher character. Yes, I enjoyed it. Where there's a, thank you, where he's, you know, he's this, he's not Jesus, but he loves Jesus, but he has his own personality. He had a different way of speaking than I do. He had a different way of speaking than Jesus does, you know. For me, it's fun to put on those costumes. Now I suppose that you probably couldn't have, even if they wanted you to shave your beard and cut your hair to look like a totally different character, it probably just helped the fact that you were meant to play a hippie, that you weren't allowed to affect the hair.

In fact, I could let it grow for several more months. Yeah, in fact, I could let it grow for several more months. Yeah, I mean, if I had to, technically, I could have, but what that would have meant was that I would have had to wear a wig and a fake beard for The Chosen, which I refused to do. Okay. Was that ever suggested? Was that ever something you thought about or just... Was Caviezel wearing a fake beard? I don't know. That's a good question. I'll have to ask him next time I see him. I wonder if he was. I think he was.

He might have been. Yeah, I think I remember Gibson talking about how impressed he was by it, but people can fact check us online. Let us know in the comments. Good beards are hard to come by. Like most cheap beards you can spot a mile away. And they're really, really expensive.

Really good wigs, like where you don't know it's a wig. Really expensive because it's human hair. It's all human hair. The beards are human hair. So somebody weaving that into a piece that kind of overlays. Like that's. Are there other people on Chosen who have fake beards? There have been, yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And some of our day players, they would come in in character. Like I would see them when they got to set. I didn't see them in the makeup trailer because I would have been like before them or later on or something. And I would see them on set. We'd a scene and then I we would be in the makeup

trailer getting our makeup off and their beards off I'm like that was a fake beard wow I had no idea or fake hair or something like I had no clue it was so good we have such a talented team and and as we've gotten bigger we've had more resources to improve on all aspects. I was going to ask you that. Is there a night and day difference between the first four episodes today? I haven't done that. Oh my gosh, bro. You don't even know. Like season five is on a whole other level. Wow.

Like production level we've got, yeah, our sets are incredible. We've got, yeah, our sets are incredible. We've got two, three sound stage, well, two sound stages. We converted another building to like a third sound stage. And we've got like backdrops that we never had before. Something called a trans light, which is essentially a giant slide that you throw light behind out the window

of a set that's built inside. So it looks like that's really the outside. And we never had that before. We never had the money for any of that. And so, you know. What happens to all this stuff when you're done? Save it for a rainy day? A lot of the sets get taken down and repurposed

and some pieces are saved and there's, you know, I'm trying to get them to save certain sets. I'm like, don't tear, don't get rid of that completely. Like that's, I mean, years from now, that's gonna be really, really valuable. There's a lot of sets that we built a city in mid-Lothian Texas. years from now that's gonna be really really valuable. There's a lot of sets that we built a city in in Midlothian, Texas. Yeah. Our city set which is going to be once we're done

it's going to be used for like historical tours and like wine making and olive presses like they're going to make this into like a first century. Really great. Historical like yeah that the Salvation Army owns this property. And so they bring groups and camps and film camps for kids and all sorts of stuff. And it's gonna be like an education, it's gonna have educational purposes once we're done using it.

They did that with the Lord of the Rings. Is that right? Yeah, and we were in New Zealand and I guess the agreement was they were gonna reset up everything for the Hobbit, for Hobbiton. They said, you you can but we need to now leave it to be a tourist destination. Oh Yeah, that's amazing. That's what Australia New Zealand are two places that are on my bucket list that I've never been yet New Zealand is so beautiful. It looks like at least in the north Scotland and Hawaii had a baby It's tropical and rugged and wow, it's a. If you don't like it, you can always quit. Hello.com slash Matt Fradd. I use it, my family uses it. It's fantastic.

There are over 10,000 audio guided prayers, meditations, and music including Mylofi. Hello has been downloaded over 15 million times in 150 different countries. It helps you pray, helps you meditate, helps you sleep better, it helps you build a daily routine and a habit of prayer. There's honestly so much excellent stuff on this app that it's difficult to get through it all. Just go check it out. Hello.com.slash.mattfrad. The link is in the description below. It even has an entire section for kids. So if you're a parent, you could play little Bible stories for them at night. It'll help them pray. Fantastic. Hello.com.slash.mattfrad. Would you mind if I asked you a couple

of questions from our local supporters? Not at all. I'm so glad you said that. It would have been so awkward. Actually, you know what? I think I'm done here. That's right. OK. Tracy K.D. says, did our Protestant brothers and sisters on the chosen cast and crew appreciate the weight of the Last Supper scene? I would say based on reactions, many.

Yes, 100%. I think you could feel the intensity of it. It's funny, right after the whole Olympic ceremony debacle, Dallas and the Chosen posted a still from our table of the last supper. Oh wow. And I kind of, I reposted it myself

and it was like the most viral post I think I've ever had. Wow. Cause you look at it and it's like, whoa. Like I want to see it. You can. Yeah, yeah. It's stunning. It's we have our cinematographer and our, you know,

our production designer. They've taken such great pains every step of the way to just pour everything that we get back into the show and just make it as beautiful and reverent as possible. Oh, that's it, yeah. Sure, you wanna pass it to Jonathan, he can pass it to me or I can. That's it. We'll make sure, oh, and then it. Yeah, sure. You know, pass it to Jonathan. He can pass it to me or I can. That's it. We'll make sure we'll put.

Oh, and it just disappeared. So it's on your. Oh, there it is. Wow. Wow. And that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Cat asks, Jonathan, do you have any advice for young Catholic actors navigating the industry while trying to maintain their faith?

Keep Jesus front and center and trust everything to him and ask him to show you where he wants you to be. Ask him to provide opportunities that you can use the gifts that God's given you while glorifying him, or even be able to use the gifts that you're given if it's not directly glorifying him in the story, that at least it doesn't conflict with your ability to glorify him. That's what I would say. Rosarian says, just wanted to say thank you for reading reading your reading of John six of the Eucharistic Congress

I was so angry that season four didn't include it. I almost gave up on the show entirely Thank you so much for healing that rift in my mind. Oh praise the Lord. Yeah, that was a That was some at the Congress that was probably I had said that it would might be my the only opportunity I have to to play that scene, because we were past the timeline. And it was one that was obviously deeply personal to me and Catholics everywhere. So getting to read it and read it in Jesus's voice

that I use was really, really special for me. Roxy McDevitt says, "'Jonathan, have you experienced more escalated levels of spiritual warfare the longer you've been in this unique role? What are some of the ways you fight spiritual attacks? Well, I fight any and all spiritual attacks with prayer, with the Rosary, Divine Mercy, the Angelus, all of those.

And you know, I feel like I've become more hyper aware of spiritual warfare and I've probably sensed more attacks. I haven't been struck by lightning. Praise Jesus at this point. That did happen, didn't it? Happened to Jim, yeah, while he was on the cross. So I'm praying that doesn't happen. That's right.

We're going to make sure it's a real clear day. Yeah. Did he tell you what that was like? I mean it's just crazy. Yeah, basically that's kind of what the reaction was. It's like he, I think he's been able to make sense of it as just being part of Christ's suffering at the end of the day. You know, everything that he experienced dislocating shoulder, he had heart surgery, and all these things happened to him. It's just offering it up and anything that I go through, whether it's pains or this other scene that we had in Utah, I was having palpitations every time I did this and I'd never had them before. I'm like,

this is so weird. And there was no explanation. I had my heart checked out and everything was fine. I have all the and for those doctors that have reached out to my publicist when I've talked about this once before, I'm okay. I've got somebody to thank you. God bless you. But I think it's I think that's just part of playing this role and bringing Jesus to to, you know, the world in that way. It's just part of it. Okay. Kaylin Doran says, "'What is it like working on a show about Christ's life with a cast full of diverse religious beliefs?

What is the dynamic on set regarding the interpretations of the gospel the show has chosen to highlight?' Well, because we're not like a church and we're a film set and a TV set, we kind of treat it as a set. And like any other workplace, everybody's got their opinions and they've got their ideas. And so we don't really talk religion, you know, kind of openly, but it's probably the most open set to talk about that if you wanted

to have a conversation with people. It'd be weird if you weren't allowed to talk about Jesus in the set. No, I mean, obviously that's not the case. Like, it's an open forum, but people are there to kind of get a job done. Yeah. So, and we do, and there's such a level of respect and love for each other As I was saying earlier, it's just like, you know people that have that are coming in for only a day here and there They notice it they they recognize that there's something different about this set versus other sets They've worked on would you do me a favor looking at camera and say hello to my nine-year-old boy Peter Who's the coolest boy in the world? Hello, Peter you cool little man you

Thank you. He's a big fan lazy. So my wife's in Florida right now Well, I've been up here recording and she's laying in bed every night watching an episode of The Chosen with him and he begs Every night to watch it. So that's really I won't give anything away that just happened But apparently I think a man or a woman was just killed, maybe with a sword or something. And he's like, can you please tell Jonathan, I know he's not Jesus, this is my nine year old, but could you tell him to please bring her back to life? Isn't that beautiful? That's really sweet. He's a champion. Katie Milley says, one of my favorite things about the chosen is the way it's portrayed the humanity and ordinariness of the apostles. It made me so clear finally that they weren't called because they were already saintly

or the most holy of the Jews. Having said that, Simon Peter has always seemed such an odd choice to be the leader after being so immersed in his story for five years now. Any thoughts on why he was chosen? That's a question for Jesus, I think. I think because, you know, he had a, because of his background as a fisherman,

he became a fisher of men. Yeah. It makes sense, I mean, to have this, this, you know, equanimity, I don't know if that's the right word, with the common man and with the people, the people of the earth, the people of the manual laborers, because he could relate to all of those people in a way that the Levites and the priests maybe couldn't.

I think he was one of the least likely that people would have thought to choose, and I think that's what made him perfect. Mm-hmm forgot to choose him I do often think it would have been difficult Sometimes you think if I was an apostle, it'll be a lot easier to believe. Mm-hmm, but it must be very difficult What it well, that's what I'm feeling like. Okay, you got Jesus one moment. He's healing someone and the next one He's like I'm just gonna head off to the toilet. Yeah, I'll be right back and you're like, okay, what is it is happening? I don't know the ordinaryness as this, as this person says, is shocking. It's scandalous in a way. I think, I think that's something we have to remember.

And what reminds us that each one of us has that opportunity to, to aspire to sainthood, to aspire to holiness, is that we are the people God put on this earth. And if any one of them could become saints, then any one of us can become saints. Augustine is a huge example of that. I mean, any of the saints that struggled with their earthly lives,

and anybody that's got the thorn in the flesh, myself included, is, you know, I'm like, Lord, just take it away from me. He's like, nope, my grace is sufficient. When I read through Matthew's gospel, I'm like, or just take it away from me. Nope. My grace is sufficient. When I read through Matthew's gospel again recently, I kept bumping into that line that says the scribes were shocked that he spoke as one with authority. When I read Matthew again, I was genuinely shocked at how kind Jesus was. It's so important that we read the Bible

regularly, because when we don't, our vision of who God is and we are distorts he's so kind even the feeding of the 5,000 how he's it says that he didn't want to let them go off unless they fainted along the way so he's not just concerned about their spiritual welfare but their physical welfare like he's so beautiful yeah there's nobody like him but it's I think what happens in a day and age where there's so much chaos so much division we're so angry about so many things Jesus can accidentally become the stick we use to hit other people with. We want to see who's in and who's out. We want to make everything neat and clear again. And so a kind Jesus way kinder than we are, we should say, take such refuge and joy in the fact that Jesus is kinder than you are. And me, I don't mean you, but all of us, you know. He is. He is.

But he is. Not you obviously, you're way kinder. Yeah, we should just take such, such tremendous joy that you have a, you being all of us, have a narrow little wretched heart that refuses to forgive time and time again, who gets bent out of shape of a little things you think you're so important.

Jesus is so much better than you are. And he's the one who's inviting you into a relationship with him. How good is that? And that makes me think, thank God for the sacrament of reconciliation. And that's how we get back to that. That's how we get back to that, being in that relationship.

JR South says, dear Jonathan, as a man that has been forced to wear sandals for work, I have to ask, what is your favorite shoe? Are you a fellow bootsman, a sneaker wearer, or a flip-flop enjoyer? After such a long time with feet unburdened by real shoes, how do you cope? Do you now wear moccasins?

Also, this is my biannual opportunity to remind everyone that Matt is incorrect. Okay. Well, I'll finish the sentence. Matt is incorrect and Megadeth is in fact better than Metallica. Okay, what do you say, Jonathan Rumi? I'm more of a Metallica guy myself.

Me too. Yeah. I grew up with them. Yep. We always love who we grew up with. That's it. So nostalgic. Yeah.

But they are objectively a better band. I mean, that's no knock on Dave Mustaine or Megadeth. I think I think I admire their songwriting capabilities from the very, very beginning. I mean, Metallica? Yeah, yeah. Like even just, you know, like, I just go back to like the one of the ones that won. I mean, just when you think about like,

you're in the story, you're in the story. Every one of their songs, like you're in. I had no idea you'd be talking about Metallica today. I'm so excited. Yes. Well, I hear you're a musician. I'm not good. What do you play? Guitar. Guitar. I'm a drummer. Awesome. Yeah. My sister's extremely good. Emma Fred, look her up. I'm like slightly better than a strum around a campfire guy.

That's great. I was in a metal band in high school. Really? Yeah. That's great. What I think I love about Metallica is the vulnerability of Hetfield. I mean he's had his demons and he has grown so much. In the documentary, I don't know if you saw it, some kind of monster. I haven't seen it yet. It's like he made an accidental, terrific argument for saving sex from marriage and being faithful.

Whoa. He talked about how, you know, in his younger years, getting drunk, waking up next to someone, I don't know who she is, I got a show to play, I'm exhausted. And now at this point, he had married, had children. He's like, life's so much more exciting now when you're awake and in the now.

Clear. Yeah. But it's so true, like sin seems exciting and then ends up so boring. Yeah. The call to sanctity looks burdensome, but leads to life. Yeah. It opens up so many more avenues to joy, I think.

You know? It's night and day, it's night and day. Like, yeah. Having, having, you know, I mean, I, when I was younger, I grew up in New York and bars were just a part of the thing, a part of it. And like, there are moments where I would be like, well, what was I, where was I last night, you know?

And I have no, I've lost no sleep, not living in that life since I've changed my, you know, living in that life since I've changed my preferences, my predilections towards just being lucid and just being able to have conversations that I remember and being able to just enjoy and feel the life I'm living versus being numbed out to it. And so many people for so many reasons, they choose the numbing.

And then when you realized it like, well, why are you choosing the numbing? What is causing that? And what would be a much better replacement to that? And it's like a life in Christ is like the only option. It's the only option that actually allows you to transcend and feel what it is that we're meant to feel On in our in our time during our time here on earth before we get to the ultimate reality

It's also painful to un-numb, you know that feeling of being outside in the snow Maybe playing with snowballs building a snowman and you come inside and you put your hands by the fire and it's excruciating as you go from numb to feeling again. And numbness takes a lot of forms, alcohol, but today the drug of choice is doom scrolling, watching that political obsession with what's going on. What we never detach from this system. It was Blaise Pascal who said,

all of the ills of modern men that boil down to the fact that man does not know how to sit alone in a dark room silently. Yeah that's what I love about you know adoration chapels yeah just sitting in a room silently with Jesus and it's there's a overwhelming sense of peace that I get and any any bad day is completely changed by just sitting in his presence. Final question for you. Jonathan, this comes from USAF Smith. Jonathan, what is your God time routine and prayer life look like? I know in my busy life of large family work and other commitments I must actually schedule my time in with God any guidance you have will be greatly appreciated. I

think going to bed in gratitude to God for for for the day and for what you accomplished and for life that you've led and then waking up with gratitude for having survived the night and being able to go forth and and live out mission. I think finding one's mission is a huge key to unlocking the mystery of life. I think finding your mission in Christ, in God, and what God has you on this planet to do, whether it's as an actor or a host or a father or all of them,

you know, just doing everything to the best of your ability so that it glorifies Him and improving the world around you just by doing what you're supposed to do. I think people feel that they have to, you know, they have to do something. They have to find something maybe outside of themselves to find some kind of validation from somebody else in order to feel like they serve a purpose. Find your validation in God. Find your mission in God. What is it that he's put on your heart to bring into the world?

How can you serve him through the witness of your life? And I think finding that and then really stepping into that, whatever that looks like, will unlock joy and purpose and everything that I think the rest of the world is using other means to numb themselves to, you know, or using other means to substitute. So I think by praying before I go to bed and praying when I wake up and trying to find time, I can't, you know, I love the Liturgy of the Hours, it's one of my favorite prayers. I

don't always get to say them in the order or at the times or with the frequencies that I would like, but I think having that intention and finding some way to pray throughout the day is how I'm able to stay sane through all of this experience, all of this entire journey of life. Thanks for your work with Hello.

Oh my gosh. They've been so amazing. Aren't they terrific? They're here this weekend and just meeting all these people who work for them and they're all so wonderful. And they've been such great partners. Yeah, I was just with them this morning

doing the Alive Daily Reflection with Jeff Cavins, which was awesome. He's amazing. I met Mother Olga again. I got to see Mother Olga and yeah, there are staff and people that have come to the Hallow Summit are just such beacons of hope and light and Christ's love in the world that, you know,

I think this prayer, much like the chosen, has been transformational for so many people. Yeah, all right. Jonathan, God bless you. Thank you for taking the time to be on the show. Thank you, it's my pleasure. God bless you.