Pints With Aquinas - Q&A with Cameron Fradd: Marriage, Motherhood & Grace | Last Call Ep. 28

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

It’s Last Call! My good wife, Cameron, is back to answer your questions about marriage, motherhood, and faith as we celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary. Enjoy these episodes and exclusive content ad free, one week early with DailyWire+ : https://get.dailywire.com Pints: Last Call Ep. 28 - - - 📚Resources Mentioned: Among the Lillies: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/among-the-lilies/id1149976656 Cameron Fradd: https://www.cameronfradd.com Truthy 30 Day Free Trial: https://get.truthly.ai/TlbX/MATT30 - - - Sponsors: Catholic Match: Visit https://CatholicMatch.com or download the app today. It’s free to get started St. Paul Center: Start your 30-day free trial today at https://StPaulCenter.com/pints. Or become an Annual Member and receive a free copy of the complete Ignatius Catholic Study Bible. Word on Fire: Heaven in Stone and Glass is in theaters nationwide on September 20th and 23rd. Get your tickets now at https://HeavenInStoneAndGlass.com  - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠ 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. - - - 📕 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://a.co/d/bDU0xLb 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mattfradd.locals.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠ - - - 💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas⁠⁠⁠ 🎵 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas⁠⁠⁠ 📚 PWA Merch – ⁠⁠⁠https://dwplus.shop/MattFraddMerch⁠⁠ 👕 Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com - - - Privacy Policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/privacy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and I think my pregnancy was a wake-up call because I was hospitalized for more of it than I wasn't, and I felt like a failure when I ended up with a C-section. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. We survived, and I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful that we survived. But I thought it would have been easier. Cameron Frad, how are you again?

Good. Nice to have you back on the show. Thanks for having me on. So I went online to YouTube and other places and asked people, do you have questions about dating or marriage or motherhood? And since you know a lot about those things, I thought we would talk about it. Yeah, I live it. You live it. You live it well.

You have a podcast. I do. Ish. What's it called? Among the Lily. and it's for ladies that are tired at pretending and are ready to be real. And so the reason I started it forever ago was because I was suffering from postpartum depression with our youngest. And I just wanted to have real, raw, honest, vulnerable conversations. And I didn't think anyone was doing that.

And so felt the Lord calling me to do it. And I loved it. We asked a friend, what should we call it? And we gave him the premise. And he said, How about vodka in the linen closet? We went with Among the Lilies, and that's a better one. Where can they find it? I don't know, on their podcast app. But it's not a YouTube video. No, not anymore.

I did YouTube for like a hot minute, and it just, there was too many obstacles, and you don't have your studio at our house or down the street. Apple, Spotify, all those places? Yeah, it's more just an audio podcast now. So it's funny. So anyway, so I've got these real questions, okay. But then I decided, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions that were like, just, because I'm the one coming up with the questions to you. So I thought this would be a funny question. Every marriage has challenges. How do you cope when I occasionally make a mistake once every three to five years? I pray for you to have the grace to see your failings prior to those three to five years.

All right. We go to this one. Many people look at me and think there goes a generation. talent. What's it like seeing that level of greatness before your first cup of cup, cup of coffee every morning? I'm inspired. Yeah, good. All right. Enough of that. Humbled. I love you. All right. Here are the real questions from real people. What is something you wish you would have done differently or started sooner in the beginning of your marriage and with raising kids? My one year anniversary is tomorrow and we have our first kid is due in September. So any advice is appreciated. Yeah. I feel like this is. hard because whatever people told us we wouldn't have been able to hear at that point in time.

I feel like, and it'll be the same. Whatever we try to tell him, it's like be patient with each other, be patient, especially in parenting. Like it's hard. It's hard to go, even just marriage. Like, you become so much less selfish overnight. Like your life is not dictated by you in what you want to do anymore. It's about the other. And the more you put the other person's needs before your own, better your marriage gets and then having kids it's the same. But it's, right? Wouldn't you agree? It's hard to. Yeah, I've thought about this as well. I wouldn't have taken the advice. Yeah. I wouldn't have even understood the advice. I would have known what the words meant and I would have known what the sentences which involved the words added up to. And I would have thought I understood it,

but I don't know if I would have. So I often think, okay, well then what, you know, like if I could get into a time machine and go back to you and me getting married in 2006 and give me a new advice. Since I couldn't hear that advice, what would it be? And even this, I might not have listened to. But I think support. Yeah. Because it's going to be rough and it's going to be a wild ride. And to be in a place where you have friends close by that you can do life with, that would have been. We lived in the middle of nowhere with zero friends. And that was. hard. In Ireland. Yeah. In Donegal. In a rural, rural place that didn't even speak our language. Yeah. And it was rough. But I feel like the Lord knew what he was doing. Like, I feel like

we went from our life being in double time. Like, I was going to school full time, working full time. Like Houston, we had amazing friends and they were wonderful. But it was crazy. Like, I was on double time all the time. And so going to, learning to slow down and almost like coming to a stop was. And I think it was nice that you and I had our first few years of marriage. I mean, don't take this the wrong way families, but apart from our families. As important as families are and can be in supporting each other, I think when you get married, it's team you against the world.

And not even your extended family or close family can get in the way of that. So we sort of learned how to... Yeah. And I think with, especially our first child was hard and was colicky. and it was freezing cold. We were in a very wet, damp, freezing cold place with the newborn. And I wish that we could have been more patient with each other and we could have been more team us.

I feel like... What do you need? That would have been a good question for us to ask each other. What do you need? What do you really need? Because I think sometimes I would get offended is the wrong word, but irritated if you were like, do you just need to go to the chapel and spend some time in adoration?

And if I was a good person, the answer would have been yes. But I would just think, I don't know why that would bother me. I think it's because, yeah, because I should have done that. But it was, I don't know what I needed. I think I just needed support, friends. Like, we needed people to come over to our house and let us get a breather together, didn't we? We did. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question. Because it's like, yeah. And once we moved, when we were in ballet buffet, it was so much better. Like, we had two or three friends. families that we were friends with.

That was it. And a priest, a really good priest that we were friends with. But it was so much easier then, and we had a second child. But it was like having the support in the community and being able to go to these moms groups and just be like, oh my goodness, I'm never going to sleep again. And other moms being like, it's okay. You're in a really hard season.

You have two babies, and one of them never stops moving. This is hard. And like validating that. Like, it got better once we move there and we had community. I'll have men approach me and tell me that they want to ask somebody out on a date, but they're terrified of rejection. I remember, I was probably way too young to be dating, but I asked this girl out in school and asked her like an idiot. And I think she said no. But, hey, at least I did it. So that's why I want to talk about Catholic Match. You've heard

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I like your ankles. You have good ankles, babe. Cool. Second question. What have been the biggest graces you've seen in your life over more than two decades of marriage? And at what moment did you realize being married to Matt was precisely the will of God and all his wisdom? Pretty sure they mean God's wisdom and not Matt's wisdom. I'm in my third year of matrimony, thanks. Do you understand the question?

I think so, yes. When did you realize, I guess, yeah, what graces have you seen in our marriage? And when did you realize, like, no, no, this is exactly who I'm supposed to be married to. I feel like I had that piece prior to marriage. Yeah. Like, I had certainty that we were supposed to be married. Yeah. And that I-

Makes me question this guy. But you don't have, you don't have that? That's unfair. Maybe he's gone through a rough time or. I knew that you saw a part of my heart that no one else saw. I don't know how. Like somehow, by God's grace, he let me put down a wall and you saw a part of my heart and you saw that I was so much better than I thought I was. And I just loved you. And I knew you were amazing. And I was excited to see the man that you were going to become. But just

I love the boy, the young man that I... Isn't that wild that if you met me now? Totally. Like a 22-year-old. You'd be like, oh, that's wild, hey? We're old. Yeah. Yeah, we got old.

But I really enjoyed you and you were fun at 20 or 21, however old you were. And I was excited to see what would happen. I had no idea who you were going to become, but I knew that I liked you and I knew that you loved Jesus. And I was happy to join up with you. and see, let's see where we end up. So it was an adventure, wasn't it? Such an adventure.

Yeah, and I felt the same way. If I'm honest, I would say, even after I had moved to Texas to pursue you, even with my engagement ring in tow, there was still like, do I want to do this? Is this really what I'm going to do? But for me, after I proposed to you, I was convinced. And then when we hit a rough point in marriage, because of, it was because of a difficult child who was awake all night and we had no friends and we didn't sleep that's what it was not like i remember thinking and this is so honest so forgive me for being so honest but it was um

did i did i make the wrong decision like should i have been a priest and maybe i was too like excited or like horny or like to just and i couldn't decide carefully and i just just you know um which is a really honest thing to say and i don't Whenever I say something really honest that makes me nervous, I always feel like I'm in good territory, because I know other people must think that I can't be so alone in that. But yeah, no, I am convinced. I'm so convinced that the question hasn't been there for well over a decade, you know, like. And that was really only a fleeting two months when I hadn't slept, you know. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I don't think I ever felt that. Yeah. Like, I definitely had times where I wanted to turn away and not let you see, like, a broken part of me. And that I'm just going to be strong or pretend like everything's okay and just persevere through. So, like, kind of me putting on more armor and, like, but I knew, I don't know, I just. I've been thinking recently that the way I love you today, and I hope this isn't sappy, is different to how I loved you early on. Like early on, it was like, I loved you and couldn't do without you as a separate part of me.

Now it feels like we're kind of the same person. Yeah. And I can't do without you the way I wouldn't want to do without my left leg and left arm. It's like, oh, like half of my memories are over there. Yeah. Like I wouldn't even remember half of my life without you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, totally.

So it's more like that. Yeah, I agree. Anyway. Number three, did you always think that motherhood would have been this fun and challenging? How did your idea experience of motherhood changed for other years? I thought that I would take to motherhood very well, and I thought that I would have been great at it. And I think my pregnancy was a wake-up call and was hard because I was hospitalized for more of it than I wasn't. And I felt like a failure when I ended up with a C-section.

And everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. We survived, and I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful that we survived. But I thought it would have been easier. I was good with kids. So I thought transitioning to motherhood would have been easier, and it was really rough and hard. And like breastfeeding, I thought that was easy. Like, moms just grab a baby and they just feed. I had no idea the amount of pain. And I think everything was that much harder because of my C-section and everything else. But, yeah, it was way harder than I thought it was supposed to be. See, I think there's a different in temperament here. Like, if I fail at something that I feel like I shouldn't be failing at, and like something,

you know, that is a good thing that I'm not doing, because of my melancholic temperament, I tend to like immediately be aware of that and despair. You have this temperament where I think you bat away the idea that you could possibly be failing at it. But I think there's some part of your heart that's aware that you're failing at it. Does that make sense? What am I saying about you there? Um, that I'm less likely to admit where I'm failing or my weakness. I don't want to look at it. Yeah, and I think it's a way to persevere and it's what makes you so, I don't know,

awesome because you just keep moving ahead. But there's a wound there that I'm not looking at and it will fester and get worse. Yeah. Where you're aware right away and you're like, I need to, you know, clean it out and put antiseptic. Well, that, but I think the negative part of me is like I immediately collapse in on myself. like, oh, why can I suck at this? Whereas you're like, I got this. I'm fine.

Even this, but you haven't yet seen that part of you that doesn't want to acknowledge that. And when I say fail, I don't mean it's a moral failure, but I mean the difficulty of giving birth, the difficulty of breastfeeding. So there's probably a part of you that's like, you shouldn't be failing at this and you are. And also it's something I always wanted.

Like, I wanted that. I desired it. And so, like, I always wanted to be pregnant. I wanted to have your kids. And I just thought it was going to be easier than it was. I didn't know I'd be hugging a toilet the entire pregnancy and having contractions that... Yeah. I will say the thing that I'm really proud of you for is that you are actually a really good mom.

And our kids love you. Like, right? They're good kids. Yeah, but I mean, like, you're so kind to them. You talk to them like friends. Yeah. You discipline them and you put your foot down. But you, like, they like you.

They like spending time with you. Were you afraid when you were younger that maybe that wasn't going to be the case? I remember everyone always saying, just wait till their teenagers, wait to their teenagers. And that being like... Yeah, yeah. And in my experience, we have three teenagers and they're all amazing and wonderful. And I enjoy spending time with them. And they enjoy me.

And that is nice. I think it is really important that you enjoy your children. You know how they say love them, but you don't have to like them? And I understand what people mean when they say that, and there's validity to that. But we all know when someone's enduring us, you know, versus when someone kind of delights in us. Like, they see something in us, and then, like, they kind of celebrate it in just other ways. And I think you do that with the kids, and they love you for it. Yeah.

And finding things that they enjoy. And enjoying the things not, like, I never got into superheroes or, I. Harry Potter or Star Wars, but because my sons liked it, I, like, I would look at it not as, let me see this thing, but let me just enjoy them enjoying it. You did so much better at that than me. And, but then, like, letting them come alive and, like, even our youngest son the other night with I Love Lucy, like, he kept pausing it, running upstairs and telling me, I was trying to pack to come here, and then I'm going to California. And so, like, I have things I need to do, but he just wanted me to delight in the show with him.

And it was like... What happened in I Love Lucy that was so funny? I don't even remember. She locked herself in the freezer. And she has icicles. She's crying. And there's like frozen icicles. And it looks like a beard, all these...

But he's belly laughing. It's like, no, no, no, Mom, this is the best. And pausing it and telling me what happened prior and after and just delighting in him laughing. And it's like, this is way better than me making sure I have the right dress or the right earrings or whatever. I have had Dr. Hahn on the show multiple times. You've probably watched him if you've been watching Pines with Aquinas for a while.

I've known him for years. I've heard him speak a lot on the Bible. And yet every time I hear him teach, I'm always blown away. There's so much more to learn. And Dr. Hahn is such a good teacher. I think that's one of the hallmarks of a great teacher, right? Is they can take these lofty philosophical ideas and break them down. so knuckleheads like me can understand them. This is one of the reasons that I am so happy to recommend the St. Paul Center.

If you've ever wanted to understand scripture more deeply, not just academically, but in a way that enriches your prayer and strengthens your faith, it is one of the best resources that I can think of. Through Dr. Scott Hahn, Dr. John Bergsmer, who obviously we've had on the show, and other outstanding Catholic scholars, you'll encounter Christ in scripture and become really comprehensive. confident in not just understanding your faith, but sharing your faith with others. So if you want to know Christ, which you should, and share Christ, which you should, start your 30-day free trial today at St. Paulsenter.com slash pints or become an annual member, and they'll even send you a free copy of the excellent complete Ignatius Catholic study Bible. When Notre Dame caught fire in 2019, millions of people watched in disbelief, not just Catholics, not just Christians, people all over the world. mourned that building. And you think, well, why? That's the question that Bishop Robert Barron explores in his new documentary, Heaven in Stone and Glass. Traveling through five of France's magnificent Gothic cathedrals, he shows how these buildings were never meant to be museums.

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or if you'd like to bring your parish or larger group, you can visit Heaven in Stone and a Glass.com. you can visit heaven in stone and glass.com slash group. Well, that actually leads to a different question. This person is a fella. He says, how can one be more present with one's kids? I am a father and provide well for my family but can't seem to play often or even be present with them when I'm there in body and time is passing fast. Can I answer this? Yes.

I think the first thing you do is not add something but subtract something. So you really have to put your phone and computer in its place. And you have to do that violently. I know it sounds silly, but I used to, and I actually have done this recently, I'll put my phone and computer in a bag, give it to a friend who lives nearby and say, I'm going to come get this Monday. I just don't even want this to be a temptation. And then I go home and I'm just there. And there's nothing to escape to. Now, sure, you could find something, crossword puzzles or television, sure. But that's removed. And then the next thing I would say, and it's to your point earlier about Star Wars and Harry Potter, I think you said, was don't be afraid to condescend to their interests. See, we homeschooled in a kind of, what would you say, like a traditional, which I'm grateful for, like Catholic community, where there was a big emphasis on the good and the great books. Like you have to be reading this to your kids. And so I remember thinking if my kid wants to get a Nintendo Switch so he can play Minecraft, I'm somehow failing.

Yeah. And I think I wish I could go back and go, yeah, of course we'll go get you Nintendo Switch. Let's save up for it, you know, and then let me, let's you and I hang out and just play this silly game together. Do you know? And because I think to myself about my own childhood, like if my dad and who was a good dad and did some of these things, like sat down with me and it took interest in a video game of mine, I would have such beautiful memories of that. I wouldn't be like, I can't believe he never forced me to read Shakespeare. Now, obviously, there is a virtue if your children's interests can become more refined and be more in touch with reality, let's say, obviously. But I do think there's something about condescending to your kids' interests. So I would say, like, don't be afraid to invite them into your little interests, even if they're not as cool as they should be. Even if it is, like, you have this video game that you play when your kids aren't around. Just, like, bring them into it.

Or some, does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. My advice would be different. Is it okay? Of course. I say, get outside. Get in nature. Like, it's so much easier to enjoy your children when you're in nature. So like go for a walk, go for a hike, find a lake, or a beach, and like an experience, I don't know, I think getting out in nature, you, and then look at things through their eyes. So like a lot of times, especially if your kids are little, like, Lord, let me see things through their eyes. And you'll be surprised that like an earthworm will bring so much joy. So I agree with what you're saying. The only pushback I would give is sometimes you'll say something to a parent, like, hey, get out in nature. And everything.

in them thinks, I don't want to do that. And I would say to that, well, hang on, well, no, what about the beach? And then I might go, oh, I can do the beach. Okay, well, that's something. Do you see what I mean? Like, um, I agree. I'm not saying it has to be, and find something that you're both, like, interested in, but, like, even a park. Like, I, so many of our kids' memories, like, are fun experiences at parks. Or it, you can go to a theme park, but it's like, we purposely didn't go to Disney when our kids were little, because you you would have hated it. I would have, and would now, and probably we couldn't have afforded it.

Well, that too. But, so I don't know. I think that sometimes it's like focused on really big things. Like, I need my kids to have this experience. And it's like, actually just anything outdoors. Yeah. Like, get a couple of fishing poles. If you don't know how to go fishing, learn together.

Like, figure it out. Yeah, that's the other, yeah, that's another thing. It's like, I feel threatened when I'm being invited to do something that I know I can't do. And then I'm embarrassed. Like, I didn't draw up fishing. So, like, the simplest parts of fishing would make me feel, like, inferior. And getting over that, I mean, like, it's actually okay that you don't know this. Like, what do you think your son's judging you?

No, your son's thrilled that you're with him, figuring it out with him. And I think also having friends. Like, you took our sons hunting when they were young. Like, but you had a friend that knew everything to do. Exactly, yeah. So you didn't have to. So, like, find a buddy like that that's like, okay, I have a friend. that has a boat and we'll go do something, you know, go out on the water.

This is maybe a question that could be answered quicker. You and Matt have lived all across America as well as Ireland, Canada, and almost Croatia. Is there anywhere that Matt could get a job where you'd say, I think I'm going to sit this one out? No, I don't think so. I go anywhere. I love you that much. Actually, no, no, no. Somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.

Yeah. Like, if it was always... I mean, Ireland was always great. Ireland, yeah. I think you'd go. But I don't think you should. I often joke with you, don't I, that I'm like, I could call you up and say, okay, this sounds crazy, but I have a friend in Uganda, and he wants us to come and live there for a year and help out with this orphanage. Totally do it. And then I'd say to you, that was a test, and you failed. Am I failing that I love you and I just want to be with you and I'm happy to go wherever you want

to go? No, but the problem is... Does that make me a bad wife? The problem is your husband is also like that and I need you to occasionally be like, honey, no, no, we can't. No, I don't. I don't know. Every marriage is so different. Oh, yeah. I've been thinking lately about how sometimes advice is so unhelpful because, like take two individuals, you and me, we're very different people. And just because I've found something that works in whatever regard, money, prayer, exercise, Just because I've found something that works, doesn't mean it will resonate with you, you see. But so often when things resonate and help us, we talk to everyone else like they have to do this thing because it helped us. Now take marriage.

Now, obviously, there can be very general principles that help everybody, of course. But it seems to me that the more specific they get, sometimes they're unhelpful. Because then you take you and me as a couple. Okay, we as a couple are very different to say Trent and Laura or Chester and Lise. and our friends. And so for us to go, well, here's what work for us. And we're very specific, whether that has to do with marital intimacy or finances or what have you. And the temptation is to go, this is what you must do, X, Y, and Z. And it's like, actually, I think sometimes people harm their marriages. By trying to insort something. Yeah, because they're listening to these guys

on the internet or girls on the internet who are like, you must, this was a game changer. Yeah. I agree with the details, but I think the overall. So it's like being vulnerable with each other. Like I think that that's one of the things like it's through our hard times and our sorrowful mysteries. Like it's through the sickness that I feel like we've become closer. Like the intimacy level has gotten that much deeper by not turning and running but sitting in it with the other even though you don't want to.

All the times we've turned and run and then fell over in this analogy and then we have to come back and figure it out. Yeah. All right, let's try to do one more question. Did I get to all these? What are your favorite dates to go on with Matt? I just enjoy spending time together. Our walks. I love going for walks. Yeah, we walk around our neighborhood like three or four times a day. Yeah, yeah. I love going to the beach. Walking on the beach is probably my favorite. But just going for walks and chatting, like, I felt really lonely when you were in Lithuania. Like, I kept walking the dog and just being like, stupid dog. Like, who am I supposed to do? And so, like, I'd see neighbors. I'm like, hi, how are you? And I'd be talking to them more. And I'm like,

oh, she got social, but I just missed having you and talking to you. Yeah. What about, like, historically, have there been date nights? Like, I love how we used to do that. I miss some of our really close friends and double dates that we used to do. Um, And honestly, like early marriage when we were poor and like we'd go to Costco and eat samples or like split a piece of pizza from Costco. Like I'd die if I ate that now. If you ate that now, you would. But I have fond memories of that. Was it because we couldn't afford food so we'd go to Costco and eat samples?

Yeah. I miss and I would never want to do this again. But at the beginning of our marriage, living in Ireland, we had no children. It was freezing cold in our little shack in Donigol. And we just watched 24 with Kiefer Sutherland. Is that his name? We would just pound black Irish tea. We probably didn't know how caffeinated it was because of like a new experience for us.

We're wired. And we put so much sugar in? So much sugar. And we walked to the end of the street to the little gas station and buy those. What were those? The chocolate magnum bars. Oh, yeah, magnums. And we just watched so many episodes of 24.

It's like two in the morning and we're like, just one more. That was such an addictive show. I could talk you into it then. Now I try to talk you into it. You wouldn't even let me finish the episode from last night. It was one episode. I turned around and went to sleep. And then I think at one point, I'm like, really?

Can you not just watch the rest of this? I wanted to know. I think the woman was murdered. I don't think she hung herself. Yeah. I'll have to wait to find out. I don't even have a computer with me. Oh, to take to California?

Yeah. I'll have to find out when I come back. Well, that's wrap up, Cameron. Thanks very much for being on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me.