Pints With Aquinas - Should I bother praying for the souls in hell? w/ Fr. Gregory Pine, O.P.

Episode Date: June 10, 2023

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Wow, I pushed record before I thought I was going to. Okay, my name is Fr. Gregory Pine and I'm a Dominican friar of the province of St. Joseph and this is Pius of the Aquinas. In this episode he looks over to determine what it is that he's going to speak about. I'm going to pray whether we should, I'm going to pray, I'm going to talk about whether we should pray for the damned. Would that all of my speech were in fact prayer or were preceded by prayer or informed by prayer focus Gregory, okay So why why is it worthwhile to talk about whether we should pray for the damned? Well, because it reveals one who we are

What we're meant to do by our prayers and how that fits within the plan of God's providence So it seems like a kind of vain theological inquiry. Oh, there you are counting How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I'm not doing that, okay, to be clear. I think this is actually important so let's get after it. All right, I'm gonna set myself, I'm going to set myself the personal goal of finishing this video in fewer than 10 minutes. So I'm gonna approach it from three different vantages, from the vantage of the damned, from the vantage of the living, which is to say from our vantage, and then from the vantage of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Because why not? Alright, so from the vantage of the damned, it doesn't really make sense to pray for the damned. Why? Well, because it doesn't really help. So the damned have chosen against God, whether we're talking about angels, you know, so we would hold that Satan, the evil one, is in hell, and his demons with him. We don't know their number, but Scripture seems to suggest that like a third of the angels fell. So too, men and women throughout the course of the history of mankind may have chosen against God, it seems.

Many will have chosen against God. The tradition, unlike many figures of the tradition, suggests that even the majority of people might have chosen against God the tradition and like many figures of the tradition Suggests that even the majority of people might have chosen against God not making a judgment as to the nature of that particular Hot topic, but okay. There are probably people in hell And for those people they've chosen against God and they're fixed in that choice So it's not a choice that they can repent from or of whichever the appropriate preposition is. I'm losing my bearings here. So we don't hold for something like apocotestasis, this originist teaching that souls gradually kind of cool from their rebellion and then are returned to a state in which they can choose for God or affirm their love of God. Okay? The only thing, or the only change that we might observe among the damned is that their punishments could be

lessened. So at present, you know, they suffer a kind of spiritual torment with the resurrection of the body. They will suffer a bodily torment, but the tradition suggests that both torments might be lessened by the mercy of God. I don't know that we have, I don't know if we have any role in that. God might will that his mercy be exercised through the prayers of the just, but I just know of no scriptural or traditional sources which would give cause for us to like pray for the lessening of the punishments of the souls of the damned. So it just seems like something that we're not really involved in. Okay, so then let's approach it from the vantage of the living. Now, seen from this vantage, it may help.

Not because I'm denying what I said in the first point, but I'm saying that we just don't know what has become of those who have gone before us. So we don't think that we can alter the past. We don't think that what happened will have no longer happened, provided that I pray hard enough, because that's absurd and metaphysically impossible. So I'm not going to change God's mind, I'm not going to change the state of affairs, but God might will that something come about through my prayers. And that something might be the salvation of a particular soul.

So it might be the case that somebody is damned, but I might feel prompted, or I might desire to pray for that individual because I think of my prayers as Contributing in some way shape or form to their salvation Okay So what we're saying here is that when people die they might be hellbound or they might be heavenbound We don't know and on account of the fact that we don't know it's worthwhile to pray Okay, because we pray in hope we pray with the kind of confidence that God desires that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and the desires that

His salvific plans will actually unfold through the prayers and the works of the just, to which I hope we pertain. Okay, so that we might be numbered among their ranks. So we just don't know the fate of those who have gone before us. You know, Who is to say who is damned? Satan? Yes. Everyone else? No idea. So there are reasons to believe that God's ponderous mercy might hang on the souls of those who have gone before us. I'm thinking here this isn't scripture or tradition but it's nice. So Dante's Divine Comedy, I often read this by way of encouragement, the Purgatory is awesome to read during Lent. This is a little early to read during Lent. This is a little early to start suggesting Lenten reading, but nevertheless,

when you go and start ascending the Mount of Purgatory, you go through various rings of anti-purgatory before you hit the circles of pride, envy, etc. And there you meet like the late repentance. You start with this guy named Manfred and then you meet these people who kind of were saved by a hair's breadth escape. So like Buona Conte de Montefeltro and then you meet this guy who was just lazy named Balacqua and you just go through all these ranks of late repentance and you realize you know how poised God is to visit mercy upon those who cease posing obstacles, who remain open in some way shape or form to consent to and cooperate with His grace." And so our prayers are kind of trained on those who might have many years before them for the, what would one say, atonement? Nope, for the remission of the punishment attached to their sins.

Okay, so by our prayers we commend them to the mercy of God. We act upon a desire that may be God-given. Mind you, that desire needs to be healed and grown, that's to say matured. But yeah, it's worthwhile, it's worth investigating. So we don't just say, I don't know if this person is heaven-bound or hell-bound and so there's no sense in me doing anything because it's already fated. No, we exercise a role in the plans of God and if you have a desire to pray for, then exercise that desire. Mind you, it's better to pray for the person when he or she is alive, when that person has the opportunity of repenting. So you can think here of St. Therese and the way that she prayed for this one individual named Henry Pranzini. And then

he exhibited signs of his repentance right before he was executed by kissing the crucifix. Okay. So it's better to pray while alive. And that goes also for offering Masses. It's better to offer Masses for members of your family prior to their death than after their death. Still good to offer Masses after their death, but better before. Okay, so we're not going in here for like a vague universalism, like everyone's basically saved so there's no sense in praying. Nay, nay.

We believe in a strong providence and our role in that strong providence. Okay, now lastly, from the vantage of the Blessed Virgin Mary, I might do this in under 10 minutes, I am pumped. Okay, so when you make a Mary in consecration, you offer to the Blessed Virgin Mary your merits and the application of those merits. So you say, okay, I'm gonna pray, I'm gonna sacrifice, I'm gonna do whatever, and I want you to distribute the graces that come from that in the way that you see fit. Now, does that mean that like Mary isn't going to take care of those whom we love? No, on account of the fact that we've given her everything, she's going to be better

disposed to take care of those whom we love. Okay. And, and, and when it comes to this particular question, you see the advantage because you're going to pray for those who have gone before us in death. They might be heaven bound. They might be hell bound. We don't know, but the blessed Virgin Mary does, and she's going to pray for those who have gone before us in death. They might be heaven bound. They might be hell bound. We don't know.

But the Blessed Virgin Mary does and she's able to apportion those prayers in a way that best befits the glory of God and the salvation of souls. And yeah, she's going to take care of it. So Our Lady is going to make of you a good intercessor, which is another reason why it's helpful or why it's fruitful to make a consecration, so that you can be further kind of matured and cemented in your role as an intercessor, as an agent in the plans of God's divine providence, and as one who contributes as it were to the salvation of those who have gone before us in death. Boom! Okay, that's what I wanted to say. So this is Pons of the Quineus.. If you haven't yet please do subscribe to the channel, push the bell, get email updates when they come forth. Oh I have two more announcements and one of them is exciting. So I contribute to a podcast which is called God's Planning. You might know it. We have not recorded an episode about hell,

at least I don't think we have. Oh but we're going to do a three-part series on the Divine Comedy for Advent of this upcoming year, so get pumped and check out other episodes in the meantime. And then lastly, the Dominican friars of my province are hosting a Dominican Rosary Pilgrimage in Washington DC on September 30th, 2023 at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington DC. So I'm going to be preaching a couple conferences and we're going to be praying the rosary and processing and celebrating Holy Mass and just generally basking in the glory of God. And it's going to be great. So you'll have the opportunity there to meet some of the Friars whom you've come to know through Pines and the Thomistic Institute and God's Planning and

other stuff. So yeah, I look forward to chatting with you there. I look forward to meeting you there and I look forward to praying with you there. So that's all I got. Know of my prayers for you, please pray for me and I'll look forward to chatting with you next time on Pines with Aquinas. Boom. Oh my gosh, I did it. Less than 10 minutes.