Pints With Aquinas - Suffering, The Bible Timeline, and The Meaning of Life w/ Jeff Cavins

Episode Date: May 17, 2022

I got to chat with Jeff Cavins of "Bible in a Year with Fr Mike Schmitz,' "Life on the Rock," "The Great Adventure Bible Timeline," and "The Jeff Cavins Show" In addition to being one of the greats, Jeff is a great conversationalist and an all-around good guy. This will definitely be one to tune in to. Join Us on Locals (before we get banned on YT): https://mattfradd.locals.com/ Hallow (Three Months FREE!): https://hallow.com/mattfradd Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/matt Pilgrimage to Israel with Jeff: https://www.jeffcavins.com/pilgrimage/ The Great Adventure Bible! https://ascensionpress.com/products/the-great-adventure-catholic-bible Bible Timeline Courses (Try the Free Trial): https://ascensionpress.com/collections/unlocking-the-mystery Peterson at Franciscan: https://youtu.be/tB3qqb3U0Kc a Message to Young Catholic Entrepreneurs: https://www.jeffcavins.com/a-message-to-young-catholic-entrepreneurs/ The Zettelkasten Method: https://media.ascensionpress.com/podcast/knowledge-hoarding-and-the-solution/ Jeff and Fr. Mike's Insight Journal: https://ascensionpress.com/collections/collection-book/products/insight-journal

Did you know that I'm now hosting a live daily podcast called Morning Coffee? Every morning at 8.30am you can join me and dozens of other early birds for a caffeinated conversation about theology, philosophy and how to grow in your relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. The podcasts are completely free to watch. All you have to do is sign up on locals by clicking the link in the description below. Hope to see you there. Yeah, because I guess they were bringing Jordan Peterson around and they had like the people from the university kind of escorting him as well as his guard or whatever. And they're all kind of done up real nicely.

And there's Bob tattooed and whatever. And I guess Bob said, hey, I didn't know the Mormon brigade was bringing you around. I would have dressed nicer. And I guess Peterson liked that. So they got into a really great chat. Oh, that's great. Yeah. What did you think of the, um, of the talk? The talk I thought father Dave did a great, a great job of guiding that. I thought that that was really, really good.

I'm on the board for the museum of the Bible in Washington and that's where he was prior. And so he's on this little tour of, okay. You went there. You'll let us know when we're live. Will you ever went to the book with life? Oh, we're live. Okay. Good. I'm on the board, the Catholic board of the Bible, Bible and museum in Washington. Yeah. So were you there when Peterson came through? No, I know it wasn't. No, I was so impressed with Father Dave. Yeah.

And here's why I've had some time to think about this, and it's online, is it, the viewer? Yeah, they just put it up. Maybe we can link to that. Jordan Peterson gave a talk at Steubenville, and then Father Dave interviewed him, and that was the best part about it. He was a priest in the best possible sense.

He didn't try to match his psycho lingo. You know, he wasn't intimidated by him, which would be understandable. He proclaimed the gospel, but not in an annoying preachy way. It was just really terrific. Yeah, that's what I thought too. And I thought that wherever Jordan is at in his journey, whatever, that Father Dave, I think, had an impact on him

at some level. Yeah. And then we all prayed over him at the end. Oh, really? Yeah. Cool. I got invited to that. Couldn't come for some reason, but I wish I would have, you know, because he's he's one of those guys that in our culture today stood out

for some reason, you know, what he's saying. And not many people come along like that. How long have you been following his work? Maybe three years. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, is he so impressive? I think he's impressive because he's a thinker and he he's really be he's very Objective in some ways of looking at yeah and bringing psychology into the the crisis that people are going through now and The questions that people are asking and he's he's giving particularly young men He's giving them a way to live that's

doable and that it will make a difference. Sorry, but, you know, clean your room. Yes. Why do I have to clean my room? Clean it. Yeah. It's almost like a sacramentality to it that you clean your room, something happens, you know. I wonder if it's because a lot of us have theological formation as Catholics, but we have missed the human formation bit. Yeah.

And so he's kind of going back to basics, which some people scoff at. Yeah. But many of us aren't living. And so it's connecting. For some reason you get these young guys with their Harley-Davidson's or whatever, and they listen to him and go, hey, I know, I like that. Well, have you ever read Joseph Pieper's work, the abuse of language? I haven't read that, but it's a short essay I read over the weekend, and he says that when we lie or when we flatter, that is to say, tell a falsehood in order to manipulate,

he says we distort reality, and then we distort interpersonal relations, because, and he even argues that when we tell a falsehood, we're no longer communicating, we're actually depriving the other of the truth that's their share. Yeah. And I just thought Peterson does a great job.

But he seems honest. Yes. And he'll tell you if he doesn't know. Yeah. You know, he's I think what's attractive about him is he thinks out loud. Yeah. And people are fascinated with the way he's he's going about it. And why do people like that?

Well, I think they like it because we are so, we are so much into like quick social media, quick this, you know, two minutes that, two minutes this, that. When people deep down inside really long to, to rest in something and to dwell on something, to savor, you know? And so when he takes on a topic, to savor, you know? And so when he takes on a topic,

he slows down and he thinks through it. And there's something attractive about being able to think through. Most people say, I wouldn't even know where to begin. And that's one of the problems, is that we don't know where to begin. And so if you don't know where to begin, then you don't know where you're going to end up. And he thinks that way.

You're kind of being brought along in the journey of thinking through things. And I think another thing that's attractive, you know, I wrote a book called When You Suffer a few years ago. I was going through some tremendous suffering in my neck, and I ended up with a fusion in my neck. But it was in the process of that that I really learned about the love of God and what Jordan's dealing with and has been dealing with in his life and his daughter and his wife is suffering.

And I think that he is learning, like it says in Scripture, Jesus learned through the things he suffered, and I think that's true with Jordan. The suffering is forcing him to look at ultimate questions, which he taught, but I think it's very personal now. And it's like you and I, we could probably teach on suffering anywhere in the world, you know, look up the catechisms, Bible verses, and then get a quote here and there and teach on it. But it's like John Paul II said, you can't teach suffering in the objective. It is a vocation, come follow me. And it's in the following. It's in the offering up your suffering in union with Christ. Or as John Paul II says, that he loves you

so much he made room in his suffering for you to participate so that you would do what? Know what love is, taste it. That's the opportunity. And it changed my life. Suffering changed my life. Luke 12 I was just reading Story of a Soul by Therese, Saint Therese, who as Patrick Coffin rightly pointed out ought not to be called little flower but iron will. I mean that woman is a warrior, but she says, I think it's towards the end of the second or third chapter, you alone God knew what I suffered.

And I thought that's beautiful to say because too often we trivialize our suffering because there's always someone who's suffered much worse. And so we feel embarrassed maybe to acknowledge that we have indeed suffered. Right. You know, she could have rightly said, okay, maybe I'm, I was dealing with a bout of depression, but look what all these other people are going through. But she had the courage to say, you alone, God know what I suffered. And I think it's important to look back into our lives and not trivialize the suffering, the embarrassments we received, the whatever it be, neck pain, which is a serious thing, bloody hell, you hurt your neck or back. Everything else is difficult to do.

But I think what do you think about that, about sort of just acknowledging the depths that we had suffered without trivializing it in the face of other people's perhaps more objective suffering? I think it's how you look at it. You know, John Paul II says that there's two types of suffering. There's physical, which you and I have gone through. If you've got a cold, anybody with COVID, you know? So you've got physical suffering,

and then you have what he calls moral suffering. And moral suffering is the suffering of the heart. It is the betrayal. It is the anxiety of life, a depression, or your son dies, you know, this deep, deep ache in your heart. And he said that most people would rather have physical suffering than moral suffering. I'd rather have a broken leg than a broken heart any day, you know. And then he says there's two kinds. There's

temporal suffering and then there is what he refers to as this unlimited suffering. And that unlimited suffering is to be suffering without God, without love, without everything that is good, and he calls it definitive suffering forever, forever and ever and ever. You know, and as George Carlin said, you know, forever is a long time, especially as you get towards the end. You know, and Jesus, he literally used physical suffering and moral suffering to deal with that definitive suffering. And so, when we ask the question, what is the meaning of suffering? And everybody asks that. Jesus was in Luke 24 walking away from Jerusalem, or walking behind some guys that were walking away from Jerusalem, heads hung low, depressed. And He says, Hey, what are you guys talking about?

You know, and they said, are you the only one that didn't figure out what's happening in Jerusalem? This Jesus, you know, we thought he was Messiah and, and he then began to teach them everything from the Old Testament as to why the Messiah had to suffer. He could have taught him anything. He zeroed in on suffering. And so we find the meaning of our suffering in his suffering. And so if you are united with Christ, you have the opportunity in your physical or moral suffering to unite yourself to Jesus. And John Paul II talks about this a lot, how he came to redeem you and he redeemed even your suffering. So your suffering is like heavenly cash and you can, as John Paul says, you can even apply it to loved ones so that the man, now a man of God, can say, well I've got some physical suffering and rather

than sitting around and complaining, he can actually offer up his suffering in union with Christ, as John Pole says, he opens up a room for you to participate with him so that you'll know him and his love deeper. You can stare at the cross all day long and say, ah, that's so beautiful, he loved me. And it's like Jesus is standing there saying, you want a taste of it? You want to know what it is? Come join me. Pick up your cross and come join me." And that answers the deepest question I think about suffering, which Paul said to Colossians.

He said in Colossians 1.24, he says, I rejoice in my suffering for your sake. I used to think right there, I'm not on the same page as you. I rejoice in my suffering for your sake." And then he says something really odd. He says, I fill up in my body that which is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. Begs the question, what's lacking, you know, in the sufferings of Christ? What could possibly be lacking in the sufferings of Christ? Did Jesus ascend to the Father and, you know, a few eons later say, oh, you know, oy vey, I missed, I only got 98%. Father, I don't know how it happened. I only got 98% of the suffering. What are we going to do? You know, and the Holy Spirit says, well, make them do something, you know. That's not what happened, I want to be clear. But what happened is that the question is, what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ?

And St. Augustine answered the question, and John Paul II answered the question. And what Augustine said was, and it's brilliant, he said, what's lacking in the sufferings of Christ is the sufferings of the mystical body of Christ. And then John Paul answered the question in Salvifici Dolores, on the meaning of human suffering, which I highly recommend. I wish I would have wrote that book. That was so good. That was huge.

That was so good. Kudos to the pope. So he says in there, he says, what's lacking in the sufferings of Christ? Nothing, but that you might know the love of Christ. He made room for you to participate. And so, you have a choice, do I want to participate or would I want to run away from this my whole life of suffering, you know, it was a, Bishop Fulton Sheen said, he said, the man who fears suffering the most is the man who only dies once at the end of your life. That's the guy who fears death the most. And he says, the way you prepare for death, which is the greatest of fears,

is you practice for it. You die daily. You give up your life daily, you know, you become a witness and martyr. Right? We know that's where the word comes from for a witness. You give up your life for your wife. You give up your life for your children. You give your life up for, for the sake of his kingdom. And when that day comes, been here, done this. And I love that. I love that. And so we're equipped. If Paul had never have written that, say that bit was omitted, though he meant it, but never wrote it down, how many of us would have or who would have ever thought to say

something as bold as that? I know. What does it mean to unite your sufferings with Christ? That sounds like one of these theological niceties that I wish I understood. Maybe I understand it partially, but it sounds too ethereal for me to know if I understand it. No, that's a very good question because most people look at it that way. You know, they look at the body of Christ that way too. It's like, well, it's got a cool metaphor, you know, we've got the head and we're like the body, hey, that's cool. But that's about as deep as they go, you know, many times. What it means to unite your suffering with Christ is that you, in your suffering, have the choice. What do I want to do with it? Do I want to squander it, which means waste it,

just focus on myself and my plight, you know, what's going on with me? Or do I want to unite myself with Jesus, offer up this suffering, that famous phrase, offer it up, you know, which my mom used to use that, and that just simply meant get out of the kitchen. I'm cooking, you know, but to but to by an act of the will. Well, I'll give you I'll give you the answer in real life. What happened to me? Yeah, I was about two weeks away from surgery on my neck and I was hurting and I couldn't sleep and I was doing life on the rock on EWTN every week. I'd fly, you know, from Minneapolis out there and my wife said to me one morning she said I'm going to drive you to the airport you don't look good. I said okay and if you look at those old shows my left arm is

hanging. How long ago was this? This was in 99, 2000. Okay. Yeah and my left arm is I couldn't even move my arm. I was in pain and on the way to the airport I passed out and I woke up with medics on top of me and trying to get me to breathe right and it was I couldn't go to the show of course and I got back home and one night I Woke up at 2 in the morning wake up. I couldn't sleep it, you know, and I said to my wife I'm just gonna go downstairs. I, I didn't wake up, I couldn't sleep, you know, and I said to my wife, I'm just going to go downstairs. I said, I just can't take this anymore. I don't know what to do.

And get this, I'm teaching at the same time. You know, I'm at conferences, and in my own life right there, I'm like, how do I do this? I know the principle. I know what it means to offer up my suffering, but how do I do this? I know the principle. I know what it means to offer up my suffering, but how do I do it? And you know as Catholics that we're looking for like, okay, maybe I have to say it in Latin. You know, maybe I got to say it backwards in some council or, you know, whatever. Is there a secret potion? Is there a novena that's going to be the key here? And I went downstairs and I...

A different colored scapula that I'm not yet aware of. Or I will invent. So I went downstairs and I'm sitting on the couch and I'm holding my arm. And I'll just be honest with you, I just started to weep. I just started to cry and just said, God, I can't deal with this. I just can't deal with this anymore. What do I do? How do I offer it up? And I felt like the Lord spoke to me so clearly and he said something to me that a shoe company

stole. I'm in litigation with him right now. And it was just do it. Nike, it took it from me. Boggess. Millions. Just do it. And I'm like, just do it. So I got up, went upstairs, my two little girls at bunk bed,

Jackie was down below, Tony was up above, Jackie was about eight at the time. And my oldest daughter was downstairs. And I went over to Jackie and I knew she wouldn't wake up for anything. And I knelt down next to her bed, holding my arm, I took my hand off and I put my hand right next to her head, and I just said, I said, Oh God, offer up my suffering for Jackie, for Jackie. And I just fell apart. I started just weeping next to her. I just said, for Jackie, Lord, I give up my suffering for her, for holiness and for her, for your will in her life. And Matt, something happened at that point that I cannot explain other than a joy rose up inside of me that I had never experienced before. A wholeness, a harmony, a shalom, a peace

rose up inside of me because I realized that for the first time in my life, I was loving my daughter the way Jesus loved me, and I tasted it, and I didn't want it to end. That's interesting. I didn't want it to end. So the question, you know, how do you do it? Just do it. But see, what's interesting about that is you have no choice but to do it.

Like whether you offer it up or don't offer it up, you are going to suffer. Yeah. So is one sort of a begrudging reluctance to accept the pain and then the other is to what? That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Some people become a bitter, some are better, you know? And for me, it made me better and it became a tool for

me in my discipleship belt where if I face it, I know what to do. I know what to do. I know how to offer it. Do I seek out suffering? No, not that way. But if it's going to come, I'm equipped. I'm equipped. I know what to do. I know what to do with it. Jesus has given us this... I mean, what a grace. I used to listen to like Little Flower and some of the saints would say, oh Lord, you love me so much. You allow me to suffer. And I'm like, yeah, that's not

I'm not there. Yeah. But now I can see that that Lord, you love me so much that you're letting me taste it. I'm not there yet. Sometimes I'm there. I had a moment the other night,

I won't go into the details, but I just haven't been accepting my suffering. And it's been brutal. It's been kind of breaking me. I've been somewhat insufferable towards my wife and family at times. But something happened the other day and it was right when I should have, you know,

broken apart in the negative sense. I just felt, I said, come Holy Spirit. Like I really invited the Holy Spirit and something changed. It was weird. It was like like I was trying to fly and then I couldn't. And then this uplift of wind just sort of brought me up. I'm like, what the heck is happening? I'm responding to this thing differently. It's weird to try to explain what happens when you sense the Holy Spirit's help.

Yeah. Because I think what's hard about it is we're so familiar with Christian language and the writings of the saints that sometimes you say exactly what they say and you're not sure if you mean it or if you're just regurgitating things. But then when you say weird things that don't seem to make sense, like this uplift of wind, what the hell does that mean? I don't know. But it was palpable that I was just, yeah, accepting.

And it was beautiful. It was liberating. I felt like I was actually responding positively to the Holy Spirit's call to endure this thing. Right. Yeah. And you know, there's so much in the Bible about this too, you know, that, you know, Peter makes a big deal out of if you want to share in his glory, you're going to have to share in his suffering, you know, as well.

And over and over, you know, he talks about that. And Jesus is very, very clear about if you want to become my Talmid, my disciple, then pick up your cross. And we're like, that's 24 carat? No, no. Did you mean pillowed? Yeah, yeah. Pick up your cross and follow me.

And what they did to me, they'll do to you. And you and I, and this gets back to your question earlier about sometimes we say these things and it's like oh that's ethereal and but to be the body of Christ is to wake up this morning and to literally be the body of Christ. In other words, the Spirit of God is in me motivating me moving me to do what? Not just to go to conferences. He's inviting me to do the work of Jesus, to forgive, to love, to heal, to comfort, to tell the truth, to give mercy, the good news, the gospel, the charigma. And this, whether I'm a doctor, whether I'm

an engineer or a teacher or a homemaker, I am a disciple, not theoretically, not just spiritually, I am the body of Christ in the world, and I am doing what he wants to do. Hopefully, I mean, that's the goal right there. And once you take on that worldview and you begin to do that, it changes your whole day as a disciple. To become a disciple in the first century, it's one thing I'm really big into this, I love this, wrote a book called The Activated

Disciple. To be a disciple who is equipped with suffering, 2000 years ago you didn't just go to Jesus' talk in Capernaum and go out there and buy all of his 73 books. You would go there and listen, but the only way you could become a disciple is for him to invite you. That's the only way that you could become a disciple of any rabbi in the first century. And so, of course, he's more than a rabbi, he's the son of God. And there was two formulaic statements that rabbis would give if they wanted to invite

someone to become their disciple. The first was lech acharai in Hebrew. Lech acharai. Come follow me. That was formulaic. You are not the disciple of Jesus unless you've had that invitation. Come follow me. And we know of course that he has given us that invitation. He said you didn't choose me. I chose you. Lech acharai, come follow me. I'm inviting you to live with me, to be with me. And the second was from Matthew 11 and verse 28, he says, come to me all who are weary and heavy laden, I'll give you rest. And then in verse 29, it's a formulaic statement that all rabbis used and that was take my yoke upon you and learn from

me and so when a rabbi said take my yoke it meant take on my worldview take on my worldview take on my mission so when you and I woke up this morning we're men on a mission and that is his we We're disciples. We said yes to lech acharai. We said yes to it and that means that now I will carry out His mission and I will suffer if need be. I'll even die if need be, but I will be Christ to this world. That's an adventure that is so captivating, so big world. That's an adventure that is so captivating, so big that a lot of trivial things start to fall off, fall on the wayside. Yeah. We had a homily this weekend where the priest made a great point in saying that he worries sometimes that we believe the right things, you know, abortion's wrong, you know, but really that's quite easy to believe. Yeah.

Like once you've come to believe that, it just kind of becomes part of the background. Like nothing's really required of you unless you know, maybe you get somebody pregnant or you yourself become pregnant. You don't want it. Like there are many of these things that kind of make us look good. Like I'm against abortion or I believe in the Eucharist or I believe that the Pope is the visible head of the church. And in a sense, these things are easy to believe.

What's bloody difficult is what you're talking about. Love your wife, anticipate her needs, like be attentive to your children. Don't be merely attentive to yourself. Don't be frantic. Be calm, be at peace. This is like a daily thing that's really hard. So just like we maybe accuse the left of virtue signaling or group signaling, we can do the same thing. You know, if I do a video about how abortion is wrong, but then I go home and I snap at my kids and I'm all caught up in my head and I don't pray. This is virtue signaling, you know, this this daily mission, this daily adventure. signaling, you know? This daily mission, this daily adventure. Yeah, yeah, and it becomes far more little, like the little flower. Does God want me to,

does He want me to speak at a conference of 10,000 people, or does He want me to love and comfort my wife today. You know, child sick, I have a decision, you know, to make. And so the walk of being a disciple is in the details of what the world would consider insignificant, because the world is very big into achievement and, you know, like on the internet, I want likes. But for you and me, you and I are created for love, and we're not gonna settle for likes, you know? We're created for love, and to love deeply, and to receive love. And this takes place in the shadow of the world's,

you know, Hollywood lights and so forth, and no one sees it. It's like David's Mighty Men. I don't know if you ever read that back in the Old Testament. It highlights three of David's mighty men. And the third one I love, I just love it. The first one, he fought and fought over 800 Philistines and he has this tenacity in the face of overwhelming odds. And you can imagine being fighting, you're on number 110. You think, how much more is this going to go in there? 230, come on, you know, 390, come on. And all of a sudden

he gets up there 798 and he has two more and he does it and he has that tenacity and then I love the second one. This mighty man of David, he fought and he had a bunch of people with him but when the battle was on everybody left him alone and he fought. And then when he defeated the Philistines, then everyone came back, yay, you know, with the goods and everything. And of course, you know, we know what that's like. You know, we're the one that in college, we had a, five of us had to work on a project.

They all left, I did it. They came back and got the A, you know, as well. But it's the third one that I love. And the third one, it's so beautiful. He was given the charge to guard a bean field. Yes. Wow. Hello, you know?

And so it says, you're gonna guard a bean field. And he's like, seriously? Am I gonna be fighting people in the bean field? I have a PhD. You want that there, you know? And so this is like your children, you have four, I have three, they're my beanie babies. That's my bean field.

This is my bean field. And this is tenacity and this is love in the face They're my beanie babies, you know, that's my bean field. This is my bean field. And it might, and this is tenacity and this is love in the face of a seemingly insignificant assignment. But if it's God's bean field, this is pretty big deal. You know, I mean, if John Paul II in his day called up you and says, uh, you know, Matt, I want you to guard my bean field. You done, what flight? You know, but you wouldn't have done it for me. And so it's whose bean field is it?

You know, it's God's bean field. Yay, I'm gonna do that. So if you look at your family, your wife and your home, and that's your bean field, I'll guard it. I'll make sure that nothing gets in here that's gonna harm these children. You know, it's on the internet or whatever it might be. And would I allow Mick Jagger to spend two hours

in my daughter's room? No, not gonna happen. Why? I'm guarding my bean field. And so, no, I'm not gonna allow some things to come in to the house. I wanna be a faithful bean field guarder. Gosh, that's so funny. Yeah, things to come into the, to the house. I want to be a faithful, you know, beanfield garter. Gosh, that's so funny.

Yeah. It's a good way to look at it. It is. Yeah. You know that my family matters and the small things really, really matters. And I do believe that the, it's doing the small things that brings the greatest joy. When you do what you're supposed to do in your vocation, it was nothing like loving your wife and your children. And at the end of the day, that's, wow, it's like the chariot's a fire.

You know, God made me a husband and a father. And when I do that, I feel his pleasure. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. First time I, I'm trying to think the first time I heard about you, I think it was Monsignor Bill Young. He was a wonderful priest in Texas, still lives there in Houston. And he gave me your Bible timeline CDs, you know, it was like, whatever, 200 CDs,

and a big folder. And I was living in Ireland at the time. And I went back and I got to watch it. That was such a blessing. People must tell you that all the time. Pete Yeah, it was a big surprise, you know, and it was a big surprise when I, you know, I developed it. You know, we could you for those who aren't maybe aware of it yet, could you tell me what it is to? Sure. The great adventure Bible timeline is a, a timeline that shows you how to read the Bible

as a narrative or as a story. One of the biggest problems that we face is that we're told you got to read the Bible. You should really read the Bible as a narrative or as a story, one of the biggest problems that we face is that we're told, you got to read the Bible. You should really read the Bible. You should meditate on the Bible. People are like, I know, I know. I don't want to. Yes. I don't understand it, you know? Where should I start? Leviticus. No. And so, out of my own pain and my own frustration, when I was 23, 24 years old, I knew most of the stories.

I'd been to Bible college, but I didn't know the story. And that's what I wanted to know. I wanted to be able to stand up and tell the story. And the inspiration for it, I don't talk about it very much, but the inspiration for it was a guitar player by the name of Phil Keagy. Phil Keagy was a Christian guitar player

who is considered one of the top two or three in the world. And he would play that guitar and that fretboard, you know, his eyes closed, just passion playing it and just unbelievable. And I looked at that and I actually teared up and I thought, wow, he knows that fretboard so well. And I thought, I want to know the Bible like that. I want to be able to go from the early world all the way up to Jesus and the church and back down to the judges and the conquest. And I wanted to be able to know

this story in and out, so I developed a system where out of all the books in the Bible, you have 73 books, they're not equal, they're all inspired, but they're not equal. What I mean by that is they don't all tell a story. Some of them are meant to be read in the story. So I chose the 14 books and the 12 periods of salvation history. And I laid that down on a chart. I had 12 periods, color coded mnemonic device for learning. And then I have the 14 books to read.

Just read those, you'll get the basic story. And then I show you where the other 59 fit in. And so I created that as 25 years old, and it was just for me. I just, you know, I didn't, I loved it. I was very, very, very visual. Were you a Protestant pastor during this time? Yeah, I was. I was. And of course, when I came back to the Catholic Church, I got to put in more books, you know. And it grew a little bit. But that was the basis of what Father Mike and I put together for Bible in a Year podcast, and that was the foundation of that.

And yeah, so when I developed that, it's part of that Christian imagination, you know. I read the story, I want to see the story. I want to see it. And God gave us an imagination, you know, where what I imagined in my mind was taking all of the individual, what I call atomic notes, Samuel, David, Abraham, Exodus, sacrifice of Isaac, all these different things. And I imagined putting it in order, color-coded, and to show you what's happening in Israel and what's happening in the north and the South, and what else is happening in world history. That's what I imagined in my mind, and that came out of like five years of just study. And so when I had this imagination or thinking of how to do this,

that was the easy part. The hard part was all the years of studying and thinking about these things. And then all of a sudden it comes together on a mystical fretboard, you know? And I went home, I was getting ready to go into my Hebrew class at the University of Minnesota. And I was of all places, I was in a little couple blocks square of the University of Minnesota called,

officially, Dinky Town. And it's where Bob Dylan lived for a year. And I literally parked right next to where Bob Dylan's apartment was. And I was thinking about this, and I thought about Phil Keighy, and I was listening to a CD of this old curmudgeon talking about the history of archaeology.

And I wasn't interested so much in the archaeology. What interested me was he told the story. And I thought, wow. And that's when this came. And I didn't even go to class that day. I put the car in reverse. I went to an art store, bought a bunch of things. I went to a meat market and got a big piece of white paper

for a quarter and I went home, got all my books and for 48 hours I sat there and I- What do you mean for 48 hours? I didn't even go to sleep. For 48 hours? 48 hours, 48 hours. And I developed that first timeline in 48 hours and when I was done, I gotta tell you-

I went to bed. You wanna tell ya, I cried cause I was tired. But I looked at it and I just went, I got to tell you, I went to bed. I cried because I was tired. I looked at you, son. Oh, wow. This is a story. This is it. This is Lord. This is the story. You're revealing yourself in words and deeds. And I didn't show it to anybody. I would, I'd roll it up, carry it around with me. I'd lay it out and study, and then I decided I need to shrink it. So I went and I had it shrunk to about this big, and then I started showing people and they're like, whoa. Had anyone done anything like this prior that you know of?

No, there was timelines, but it's so busy and so much that it's like over. Yeah, like I'm already overwhelmed. This isn't helping. I don't need this. I need the simplicity of it. And so, you know, no, I've never seen it before or anything like that.

But then when I came into the Catholic Church, my first visit to Steubenville was to meet Scott. Really? We had talked on the phone and I brought my timeline with me and we got together at his house and I opened it up and here's what Scott's response,

I opened it up and he went, oh. Oh. And I'm like, I know, oh means wow, you know, and wow is Greek for great. So he was like, whoa, and wow is Greek for great. So so I he he was like, whoa. And I and I wanted to create it so that if anyone looked at it, they would go, wow, they would get it.

They get it. Yeah. You know, so I had no idea that the rest of my life would be defined by this 48 hours of just head. So how did you get to know Scott? Were you still Protestant? And then did you contact him about? Yeah, I was a pastor in Dayton, Ohio, and I had been studying for about three or four years, the church fathers.

And I snuck into St. Mark's Catholic bookstore incognito and bought some things, you know, and I was studying and I was thinking, oh, man, I can't go back to the Catholic Church. I left in grand style. I yelled at a bishop. I can't go back. You got to go out. That's the way to do it. Yeah. And I did it publicly. And, uh, and I got in a fight with my dad and my daddy got in a fight about me going to a Protestant. He was trying to protect his bean field. Yes, he was. He, he had a fight about me going to a Protestant college. He was trying to protect his bean field.

Yes, he was, he nailed his bean. Maybe he shouldn't have done that. We just got into a, it wasn't good, and that was how he left home. When I came back, it was tremendous healing between my father and myself. But when I was studying, I ended up thinking, you know, I can't be Catholic.

That would give my dad a lot of pleasure there. So I thought, I'm going to become an Anglican. So what I did in becoming Anglican, as I went to Kansas City, Overland Park, I still remember it, Overland Park, and I met with the bishop of this Anglican church to be interviewed. And I got interviewed, vetted, and they said, yeah, we would like to bring you in. As a pastor? As a priest. Oh, I see, yeah.

Yeah, in the Anglican church. Yeah. And I was standing there and there was a book table and I was ready to go to the airport. And I saw this book by Thomas Howard called Evangelical Is Not Enough. I thought, dang right. So I picked it up, I looked at the table of contents,

I thought, oh man, this is good. This is good, assuming he's Anglican. This is so good. I bought it on the airplane on the way home, I read it, I was just like, oh wow, this is so good. And I got to the very end and said, I think it was, I wrote this book in 1987. I converted to the Roman Catholic Church, you know, at 89.

I'm like, no, no, why did you do that? This was such a good book. And so it really bothered me. So I found out where he lived. I got his phone number and I called him. And he's such a... Have you ever met him? No. He's such a prim and proper...

How did you get his number? I got his number through my mentor at Gordon Conwell's seminary. I ask that because have you ever had this experience of just random people finding your number online and calling you? Yes. I find that very uncomfortable. Yes. Or at your front door. Yeah, I've had that happen too. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Then the Lord sent them. Well, that's good of you. Cause I'm just like, I mean, could, no, I don't like it. Sorry. Yeah. So I, so I called him up and he said, hello, Thomas. And I'm like, hello, Thomas.

You know, if you've got a British accent, I mean, God speaks in British accent. You know, if God is speaking, people say, how do I know if the Lord's speaking to me? Is he British? If it's Australian, it's the devil. Yes. Hey, John. Oh my son. Okay, that's God.

So is he English? Sort of. Well, he's just a proper. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. More proper than me. And so I said, Mr. Howard, call me Thomas. And so I read your book, Evangelical is Not Enough. I'm a pastor in Dayton, Ohio. I was with you until that last little statement where you became Catholic. How did that happen? And he told me, he gave this story. And again, I got weepy there. I thought, this is what's happening to me. And I said, that's what's happening to me.

He says, well, I want you to meet a couple of my friends. They went through this. One is Marcus Grodi, the other is Scott Hahn. I wrote their names and number down. I put them on my shelf, never heard about them. And so I went back to St. Mark's bookstore in Dayton, Ohio after a week or two, continuing my studies. And there I see this book, Scott Hahn.

I thought, hey, that's the one he was talking about. So I bought it and I didn't read it. What was the book, do you remember? Rome, Sweet Home. Okay. And I got around to reading it and I thought, wow, this guy's went through everything that I'm going through. I like to talk to him.

So I got his number. I called him up and he says, Scott Hahn. And I said, yeah, Scott, Jeff in Dayton, Ohio. I'm a pastor. Oh, and after five minutes of talking, he says, he says, which I wasn't used to, he said, Jeff. I said, yeah, I just have a funny feeling that you and I are gonna be friends for a long time.

And I said, whatever. So I couldn't, can we answer the question? So I ended up coming over to Steubenville and I brought the chart with me and I had pretty much made my mind up I was coming into the church. Had you told your dad at this point? No, I know.

Were you wrestling with Sola Scriptura and things like that? No. No, you weren't wrestling with it. No, I wasn't. I didn't leave the Catholic Church because of theology. I was loved out of the Catholic Church. Loved out.

Loved out. I mean, the Protestant groups loved me, and they invited me to be part of their life. That's no small thing. And to mentor me and the assembly of God. And at that age, love triumphs over theology, you know. Well, yeah. And even now it ought to, in a sense, because how do you understand God unless people are showing you him? Maybe. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I think sometimes we downplay the whole love bit.

It's like it's not about love and fellowship and people who love the poor. It's about what's true. It's like, yeah, but isn't that supposed to? Yeah. Twenty one years old. I wasn't here. I was here, but you should still. That's my point. I'm trying to figure out as I talk, like she should still be there. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's attractive loving somebody and caring, not just attractive, but true. Yeah. I have a dear friend who left the Catholic church for

the assemblies of God. And, um, I don't know, maybe we say it too flippantly, like it shouldn't be about community and it shouldn't be about community and it shouldn't be about how well these people love you. It should be about truth and you should be willing to go to the truth even if everybody you meet there is a scoundrel and I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know if I do. Yeah, no, I'm trying to get at it.

It's very, very true. I have a friend who just left as a Protestant pastor. He's looking at orthodoxy and Catholicism. He feels drawn intellectually to orthodoxy and in fact is now orthodox. But sometimes we'll say things like. But I just see how the Catholics love each other, and that can't be nothing. And that was that was the word on the early church, you know. And Jesus said, by this, they will know that you're my disciples

if you love one another, if you love one another. And so the loving becomes a sign and a message to people out there that there's some authenticity in our walk with the Lord. And people are looking for two things today, Matt. They're looking for a brighter future and someone to trust. And they're not finding it in politics. They're not finding it in Hollywood.

They're not finding it in cable news. And we have it. And when we love, it sends a message. So I was loved out of the Catholic church. And I didn't know any theology at that age. I was 18 years old. And when I went into a assembly of God church or a non-denom church, everyone had a Bible smile

and they hugged you and I'm like, what are you guys taking? You know what I want to say? Can I have some? Right, where do we get the stuff? And they were just so different. And at 18 years old, that trumped everything. Absolutely.

It trumped everything. There was something about them reading their own Bible and God speaking to them and getting together with each other and they were different. Drug addicts were no longer drug addicts. People who were addicted to whatever it might be were no longer addicted, and God did something amazing in their life. And at that age, you wanna be on that type of a movement.

So that was very, very powerful. So I ended up in Dallas, Texas, and went to school and then afterwards went back into school for radio and television. So this is after you came back into the church? No. No. No, this was all before. And then I was ordained and became a pastor, and I was a pastor for 12 years. Then I came back and the Bible timeline came with it. Amazing. And everything. It would be interesting if we had God's vision. We could see all the people that have come to the church

because of the work of Scott Hahn, because that man is just such a good person. And every time I feel bad for him, sometimes I text him, Hey, I got another Protestant in town. Let's meet. You know, but not in a weird way. Not in a way that he's going to beat them into the church, but he just he just loves people. So, yeah. Yeah. And his house is open. It's a Grand Central Station. Yeah. And yeah, he and Kimberly will go down in history as being extraordinary people willing to sit down and discuss these issues at whatever level you're at. And I think that's a good teacher. When did you

come here for the first time to meet him? That was ninety four. I think it was almost 20 years later. I'm still I'm bringing I'm now bringing people in and, you know, like like Thomas introduced you to Scott and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's all a kind of a collage. You know, it's beautiful. I love it. Wow.

So it's been really good, you know, and I had no idea that the Lord was going to use that Bible timeline chart to do what he did. And then, of course, recently, the big Bible in a year, you know, Father Mike and I put together this idea, simple idea. How did that come about? How did the podcast come about? Well, he originally had that, the idea that he wanted to stretch out. I had a three month program to read through the 14 books, and he wanted to do the whole year. And he's always a guy that we've been friends for 18 years now, and we go to Israel together and around the world. And so we're very good friends. We're both Minnesota boys. And he wanted to do the whole year. So we took the the great adventure methodology and then

with the help of quite a few people at Ascension, stretched it out for the entire year and maintained the integrity of we're going to read through this story and we're going to show you the books that belong at different points. And so he's going to that daily deal. And then I will come in as the trail guide. And before we hit a new period, we'll take 45 minutes to stop and say, okay, this is where we came from. I see. This is where we're gonna go.

This is where people get messed up. Don't get lost here. So we worked together in that way. And I think he was, by October of 2020, he had, I think 70 days done. And we had like two of the periods that I taught on done. And then January 1st rolls around 2021 and I forgot about it. I totally forgot that we did that. You know, it's like, okay, you know, you move creative people, I think,

move on to whatever they're going to do. So on January 1st, I forgot January 2nd, our producer called and said, you're number one in the country. And this is the funny thing is that I forgot about Bible in a year. I thought it was my podcast. It's amazing. It's a miracle. What's the name of your podcast? The Jeff Kaven Show, you know? I got the Jeff Kaven Show and then on Hallow, I have a daily with Jonathan Romy. And he reads the scripture and I do the devotion,

but she says, you're number one. And I said, what? She's Bible of the Year. I said, oh, so like number one Catholic podcast. No, is it religion? No, everything. I said, no way. Rogan?

Shapiro? She says, yes. I got on there real quick and went, oh my gosh, what's happening here? And I stayed there for like 17 days and newspapers are calling, radio, TV, what's going on here? How'd you guys do this?

And we're like, I forgot we did do it. And the only conclusion you could come to and Father came to it as well. And that is, I mentioned that people are looking for a brighter future and someone to trust. And in the middle of COVID, they were vulnerable. It's like, I don't even know if I'm gonna go back to work.

And so when God's word went out there, it raised up, it drew Protestants, Catholics. And of course, Father has a tremendous gift and a charisma about him. But we both really said, nah, Bible timelines doing well, got the Great Adventure Bible, Father Mike, 10%. 90%? This is God. You know, I mean, it's all God, you get me, you know? But God is doing something. Let's stand back and just see what He's doing. We're not going to mess with this. And so, it happened again

in January. That's right. So when the new year hit, you saw the same thing happen. It happened again, number one. What kind of stories have you been hearing from people who've stumbled across this podcast? Sure. We've got stories of people who, for example, a lady who found out she had cancer in the middle of it, and she was keeping a diary every day when she started to listen to Bible in a Year. And it was the Bible in a Year that changed her life and gave her the strength to go through this cancer. And she died, and her husband gave the diary to Father Mike. And I had one other,

I had a lot of instances. One time it was kind of funny, I was getting my teeth cleaned, you know, and you know how they open your mouth, they got the bib on, and then they start asking you questions. And they ask questions with their hand in my mouth. And they're like, he says, well, what do you do? You know, I said, well, I write, I do podcasts, and speak, and I take Pilgrimages to Israel. She goes, podcast, what write, I do podcasts and speak and I take pilgrimages to Israel. She goes, podcast, what's the name of your podcast?

I said, well, I got a couple. One is Bible in a Year with this priest friend of mine from Duluth. She goes, what? She goes, I'm doing that, you know, and I'm not Catholic, but I'm doing it. I'm like, good, good. It's good, I meant good. And then one time our garage was robbed. Someone broke into our garage and stole

my old kid fishing equipment. It was a bummer. So I called the police and they came out and they're doing a report and pictures and everything. And the guy says, what do you do? And I said, well, I do podcasts and write and that type of thing. He said, what's your podcast?

And I said, well, I do a Bible said, what's your podcast? And I said, well I do a Bible in a year with a priest and he goes, serious. I said, yeah, I was just listening to it before I got out of the car. He said, that's great. I love this. You know, so we run into this type of thing all the, all the time where God is meeting people where they are at. But you know, but it's just, it's

a beginning because now we have to do what he calls us to do. But it certainly has caught the attention of people for that. I'm very grateful. How have you sought to bring people along? As you say, it's the beginning. I'm sure it kind of caught everybody off guard a little bit. Now, how do we kind of bring them into the orbit? Not just so that we can grow our email Now, how do we going to bring them into the orbit? Not just so that we can grow our email list, but so that we can help them be disciples. Yeah. Well, one of the things we really encourage people to do is to go and go into the great adventure and study.

And I think you did that back in Ireland. Yeah. But you see, I'm a sprinter. You know, what's that line from Gimli in the Lord of the Rings movies? Long distance is lost on dwarves. So I like so if you say like you do do this in do this in a month. And I got to read like a hundred pages a day. I'm more likely to be able to do that than to sustain some lawyer. And it's not good at it.

Yeah, I'm kind of like you, too. And I move on to things, you know, I'm. But my wife has been it's been terrific. I mean, we homeschool the kids and Cameron plays it and they listen to it in the car and they, she's loved it. So I think the next step is to go deeper into scripture. You, you Bible in a year is a jet engine. It's a jet airplane that flew over it in a way. A great adventure is let's get in the Jeep and drive through it and settle down and let's, let's start to get the feel of salvation history. What is God like? And what did He do? And through what He said and what He did, He starts

to reveal who He is, you know? And that's what we're encouraging people to do. And then to move into the mode of, you know what? I'm not just a Bible study fan, I'm a follower. And there's a big difference between a fan and a follower. And I'm gonna become that disciple that Jesus is, He's calling me to intimacy and He's calling me to reveal the heart of the Trinity. That's where I wanna go. So you can go from Bible in a year to the heart of the Trinity. And I love what the Catechism says. It says

there's two things that are incredibly important. That God wants to reveal the theology, which is the mystery of the Trinity, and break it down even more. It's the heart of my father. And then the other thing, first is theology. The second is the economy of God. Big fancy word, oikonomia, which means his plan, the father's plan. That's what economy meant in the first century was a father's household plan. So when you look at getting to know the heart of my father

and his plan, this becomes a foundation on which to trust. And so I think that's where we're going, you know, with it. So. And Father Mark Schmitz is, I think the most likable human being. Whenever I'm around him, I think, should I be more likable? I guess I should.

Crap, I don't know how to do this. Yes, you should. Oh my God. I got it too. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Has it been weird? For this is maybe a too personal a question, but I don't think so. Has it been weird to have Father Mike Schmitz become the face of something you created?

Was there a pride issue there that you had to overcome? That is such a good question. No one's asked me that. It's because it's a scary question, because I would imagine since you're human, the answer has got to be maybe a little. That is you might be a saint. So that is such a question. No, I struggle with nothing. Next question.

That is a good question. I'll answer it. I'll answer it completely transparent. Yes, there is a transition to where you created something with 40 years of your life, and you built it, and you are identified with it, the great adventure, the Bible, the multi-languages, all of that. And then Father Mike comes in and he- Is that his perfect jewel line? Yeah, yes. Yeah, I have to go places now and I speak and I say, okay, I know you're discouraged, Father's not here.

It's me, okay? When I subbed for Mother Angelica, I had my show on Thursday and if she was sick or gone, I would do her show on Tuesday and Wednesday. People were outraged. Oh my gosh, I'd walk into the studio and there's like 100 people in there and I knew what was gonna happen.

I would walk in and you'd hear, aw. Thanks. So you've been preparing for this. Yeah. Like death. So Father Mike came in and of course, he's just a gem of a guy, loves the Lord, he's got gifts and everything.

And we are actually very good friends. And it explodes at that point. And there is at that beginning sort of a, hey, me too. You know, I, this is the, and then the Lord shows you, no, I'm building on this. I'm doing something that maybe you didn't see. Take your hands off. Let me do this. And that's where the freedom comes. And so the honest answer is, yeah, at the beginning

was like, Whoa, you know, and he was everywhere, everywhere. And then you settle back into, you know what, it was a pleasure to be a part of that and praise God and thank God for what he's doing. And then you enter this incredible peace, you know, it's not this big struggle or anything, but you asked about the beginning and it was like. A little, but I would imagine that if people aren't aware of that, like maybe we're so deluded that we would like to think we struggle with nothing and that we are perfect so that we don't even look at that. Ouch. Like, that's get looked over. that we would like to think we struggle with nothing and that we are perfect, so that we don't even look at that, ouch, like, did I just get looked over? I'm not saying you felt that way, but only in recognizing it can we then surrender it

and find the peace from it. Yeah, no, your question was so insightful because nobody's asked me that question, but I think a lot of people are wondering about that. You know? And so the answer now is no at the beginning Hmm, this is I got to adjust to this, you know, that's gonna be true of everybody in public life to some degree I'm even thinking like dr

Hahn who's taught all these students who may have surpassed him in areas like I'm just throwing out a name I don't know if this is true or not, but Brent Petra for example Maybe he's become expert on something that he's really taken a lot from Scott and then developed. But I think you're right there with Scott because so much of Scott is in others, you know, his theology, for some, even the way he teaches, you know, they that's mentorship, and he does that in spades, and that's good. But you do have to let go of that. When some people will say to me, they'll, they'll hear one of my teachings and they'll say, Oh,

I really love that when you talked about, you know, radical individualism and today's culture and I am the way I am the truth. I, you know, and, uh, and they, they will say, I'm going to use that, but I'll make sure I tell people that it was yours. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, just use it. Just use it. Make it yours. And I think that's the difference between being magnanimous, which we all endeavor to be as magnanimous rather than pusillanimous. Only you and I know those words. That's right. That says we're educated. Well, I mean, I did this when I started speaking.

I would just sound exactly like Jason Everett. Oh, really? Yeah. Like his inflection. How'd you deal with the accent? It was difficult, but hey, there are guys. Baseball. No, no, I use my accent. Hamburger. It's like, yeah, to your point where, I don't know, like it's

I think this is what probably everybody struggles with. You look at people you admire, you know, that you've also been given a gift to do something similar. And so you just naturally imitate it. And it's not, though, until you can actually start to really be yourself that I think the Lord can use you. You're right. Otherwise, you just like you're just like a cheaper Jason Everett. Hi. That's what I was doing in the beginning. You know, I was Billy Graham at 25.

Yeah. I was like, who do I wanna be? And this is the question I think that you're creative. Yeah. I'm creative. We're teachers, we're speakers, writers. And so at one point or another, you have to ask, what am I gonna, what am I like? And rather than just being you, it's like,

maybe I should become this or that. And you start to act like something else. And then you realize, I got to keep this up now. It's much better to be me. So at 25, I was, I was a pastor at 25 and I would get up there, you know, God loves you. And God has a plan for your life. People like, who are you? You don't sound like that at all. I want you to repent. Yeah. Yeah. And people like, give it up, Jeff. Just be you.

Well, Christopher Fannik, you're aware of him, are you? Yeah. He's he gave me the best advice. He said, just go up there and be big, goofy Matt Fradd. And it's great advice. Just just be yourself. Yeah, not too much. No. But that is good. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, there is a natural tendency to want to become something else. And that's, that goes against something that I struggle with, with at large. And that is

that, um, I don't want to become a brand. I don't want to brand. I want to just be a disciple of Jesus, let it fall where it may, you know, but I don't want to, I don't want to consciously have to try to be something that I think will attract people. I think if I'm just me, you know, a lot of what happens happens.

I mean, Lewis talks about that in regards to friendship. He says, as long as we're concerned about impressing others, we never will. It's only when you stop thinking about yourself that you might end up being impressive to others. Yeah, and that someone would be able to say, I went and heard Matt Fradd, and you know what? He is the same up there as he was down there. And that's the authenticity

that we not only need out there, but inside we desire. Otherwise I have to be several selves at the same time. And I don't want to be several selves. I want to be just the disciple whether good or bad or popular or not popular, you know, just be. Yeah, Father Mike's like that when you meet him off stage, when you're in the back green room with him. I mean, I think to be fair, I mean, I don't know, I know there's been certain scandals among Catholic speakers or clergy or what have you, but for the most part I'm just so impressed with the people who are involved in different apostolates out there.

Yeah, it's a, it's a definitely a very fruitful period that we're in right now. You know, when, when Scott came into the Catholic church and I came into the Catholic church, there wasn't really this happening. It really wasn't much at all. There was a few apologetic conferences, you know, and Catholic answers. But over the last 25 years, blew up. When I was here in Steubenville,

this is kind of an interesting point. When I was here at Steubenville, I was here, you had, and none of us were employed, except for Curtis Martin, he was with Cuff, I think. So all of us here in Steubenville, you had Scott, you had Marcus Grodi, you had Curtis Martin, Tim Gray, you had Ted Sri, Edward out there, Ted Sri, you had Sister John Dominic, you had Jason Everett. I was there. All of us were there and we were friends

and we would just get together in homes around here and, and we'd have just a grand time sitting around talking theology and so forth. No competition, no zero sum pie, just guys loving one another. And then there was this explosion that took place and you've got Augustine Institute, you've got Focus, you have Jason, you have Sister John Dominic with the sisters of Ann Arbor, you know, the Dominican sisters, and you have Marcus Grodi, and we all still remain friends. But there was an explosion from Steubenville.

There was an explosion that took place. And I think that to be honest about the reason for it, I think there's three people that are responsible or at least part of the recipe. One is certainly Scott. The other is a father, Michael Scanlon, and the third is John Paul II. It came together and there was an ignited passion that is out there now being fruitful, you know, in the world. What would your advice be to because I'm thinking like maybe 15 years ago, if you asked a lot of people who go to Catholic schools like Franciscan, you know, what do you want to do? Maybe 20 years ago, people would say like I want to be a youth minister, not knowing what they were saying. But but now, like, I worry that we're like, well, I want to have a podcast. Maybe I shouldn't worry about that, but that just seems like that's

that's a place where you can reach the most people, perhaps. Yeah. And even make a living from. Yeah. It's does that concern you at all? What pitfalls should we look out for as we? Well, you got good questions. You should have a podcast. And I noticed we didn't have a pint, but. Yeah. I'll get Shay, let her run out and get us one.

See how long this goes on. That's a very good question. I like your questions. What was it? No, I'm kidding. Well, and I'm asking for myself, right? Yes, yeah, and me too. Yeah.

I would say that it's a blessing and a curse because anybody can have a show. Anybody, that's a blessing. You do it in 10 minutes. Go online, come out with a thumbnail from Canva. Exactly, and yeah, you've been there. The number one question I get from my graduates of Franciscan University or Guston Institute

and other places, they'll say, dear Jeff, I know you're busy, but I just wanted to ask you, I really feel that the Lord has called me to do what you're doing. How did you do it? Well, they're looking for a recipe. There isn't a recipe to do it.

I said, well, right back. Well, the first thing is you gotta wet your bed until eighth grade. Okay. And this is what, I'm telling you, this is how it all came about. You're gonna have a great beard. Yeah, yeah, you gotta do this and you gotta feel really, really bad about yourself.

You know, you gotta struggle with acne in high school and all these things. Are you with me so far? Okay, and then finally come to the end of your rope and you give your life to God. It's bordering on depression, anxiety, and... Are you with me still? No, I didn't want any of that.

So I tell him, okay, look, what do you think God is calling you to? And they'll say, well, I feel like the Lord is calling me to write. Okay. Write about what? I don't know. I just feel He's calling me to write. Are you writing? No. But I feel like he's calling me to write. Are you writing? No, but I feel like he's calling me to write.

Okay, let's go back to the beginning here. And I really encourage people, find a niche that you're passionate about. Don't look at this as a job. Find a niche that you're passionate about. And it might be something that it doesn't look big or whatever, but you're passionate about it. Give your life over to this. Start studying. Find out who

else is in it. Start to communicate. Link with others. Speak right there. Teach. Your gift will make room for itself, you know, scripture says. It'll make room for itself. And so if you start to do that, then that's the beginning. And I use the example of there was a guy that was crazy about making wooden boats. Nobody knew him, just a guy who likes making wooden boats in the garage. So he started a podcast. Hi, I'm so and so I'm the wood, wood boat making guy. And, uh, and I had like 35 listeners.

But those 35 all loved making wooden boats. So he kept it up 100, 150, 320, it just started to grow. Then the manufacturers of all the parts that make boats got in touch and said, could I come on your podcast? Yes, I can't believe it, I've used your materials, that's really good. So he'd start to interview these, 1000, 2000,'t believe it. I've used your materials, that's really good. So we'd start to interview these thousand, 2000, 17,000. Before you know it, the guy had something like

700,000 people were connected, and he was the guy that all he did was worked in the garage, and the podcast had nothing special, no great opening, no great closes, hey, I'm the wooden boat guy. And so he became the go-to guy because he followed that passion. I love that. And I think that for people starting out, we don't make it about you, make it about the Lord and be magnanimous, don't worry about competition. You know one thing that will kill people like us that are in this is envy

Yes Jealousy is I want what Matt Fred has I'd like to have that now that could be Sinful or not sinful envy is I don't want Matt to have that and if Matt is successful It makes me sad. It makes me sad. This is called envy and it's a deadly sin. It will take your joy away when you compare yourself to other people.

And that's what I was saying earlier, is that I'm created for love. I'm not settling for likes. I'm created for love. And I'm gonna go there. Let the likes take care of themselves. But people particularly who are creative struggle with this, you know, write a book on 10 ways to be a Christian and they put it out there and 72 people

bought it. And that guy over here, 10 ways to be a Christian in America. And he puts out there and he sells a million. And this guy here, it makes him sad. That's called envy. And if you have a husband who's envious of something at work and a wife who's envious of her sister, then you bring them together in the home and they're both somewhere else and they're sad rather than joyful and happy. And it's the church backwards, you know, Jesus said the scripture says rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn and the enemy comes in and says rejoice with those who mourn and mourn with those who rejoice. And there's a good way to check this out, that is

look at your sister's Christmas letter. Donnie just graduated from Harvard. Melinda is now accepted into the MIT science program. Bobby was elected congressman. And little Paul won the Pinewood Derby in Cub Scouts. And you're like, oh, I hate her. Because Larry still has that fungus they can't take care of. You know, Joey's still in prison.

Yeah, and my youngest just had a baby out of wedlock. I hate my sister. And so you read her letter and what happens? It's like, and this has been actually validated with people who won the lottery. They won the lottery and all their siblings became extremely sad. It's like, because they have all that now and I don't, and they become envious. It's a poison. It'll destroy a ministry.

How do you repent of it? You repent of it by focusing on what God has given you. Because if you remember that story in the Bible where the guy comes in at nine in the morning and he makes 10 bucks for the day. The guy comes in at noon, he makes 10 bucks for the day. Three o'clock, 10 bucks for the day. Five o'clock, 10 minutes to five,

10 bucks for the 10 minutes. So the people that get out there in the morning are like, you come to the owner, like, what gives? What gives? I work nine o'clock, I've been here all day, I got 10 bucks, that guy, which, let me tell you some stories about that guy, you gave him 10 bucks too.

And the guy says, are you envious of my goodness? No, no. are you envious of my goodness? No, no! Are you envious? Are you have a problem with my generosity? So when people struggle with envy, I would argue that it goes back to their relationship with God and it's not secure and it's, do you love them more than me? You know? And are you bothered by my generosity or do you rejoice in my generosity? I gave you what I told you I would give you. And so I think that the way you deal with it is you have to go deep into the relationship

with God and to rejoice in what you have and to be a grateful person. Lord, I am grateful for all you have given me. And when you have a heart of gratitude and you are comfortable and secure in your love for God and God's love for you, these things are not that important. And if you can rejoice with your sister that won the lottery, you're gonna be a better man. You know, thanks for sharing that. That actually like that actually show Sean Sean Sean Sean.

A light for an American show show. Sure. I don't know. It's shown a light on like, yes, some envy that I've been experiencing. So just I'm just going to bear it all here. I was I was online and I saw like yet another Catholic podcast that's doing this thing, which I stole from Joe Rogan. So it's not my thing. But there was a twinge of, oh, this is interesting. Like everybody's doing this thing, which I stole from Joe Rogan. So it's not my thing. But there was a twinge of, oh, this is interesting.

Like everybody's doing this thing now. So Lord, I repent of that. But here's a good way to repent of it. Showcase it. And this, I think it's a Latin phrase, a gerry contra, or when you act against the temptation. So here's now everyone's going to know who I felt envious of. I'll share it. I'll share their thing and tell until I really watch it. That's what I'm doing here Yeah, no, but that is a beautiful thing like you if you feel envious celebrate that person and publicly praise praise them

You know, that's what I was just I was you and I think a lot of like here That's what I was just gonna I was just gonna actually say that and that is that if I really struggled, let's say I struggled with, I'm gonna start up a show and I got a table, two Shure mics, 35 people working around us, which people don't see. That's right, beautiful bookshelf. People in the balcony. If we, you have that and I'm thinking, well, I'd like to start up a show like that. And my goal is to have a show like Matt Fradd. That's not the goal

I should be looking at here. The goal is what does God want me to do? And if my struggle is with Matt Fradd or my struggle is with Scott or whoever, it is to lean into it and to say, Matt, I really respect what you're doing. You're doing a phenomenal job. And I get on my, hey, if you have not heard of Matt Fradd, you've got to listen to that podcast because he's ripping it, he's doing an incredible job. When you do that and you become magnanimous, you become giving, it changes you. And that's what you were talking about.

There's lean into it, don't let this thing eat you because you're in the wrong game. This is not what the winning is all about. Amen, yeah. And creative people struggle with it. and everyone who says they don't. I mean, like a liar. No, that's right. That's what I meant earlier when I was saying that self awareness is key. You're free then. Yeah.

I heard somebody once say and I've stolen it since. Here's another quote of mine. The good borrower, the great steal. I said that. No, I wasn't going to say good borrower. Great steal stealing things from other people. Borrow the great steel. I said that. No. What was it going to say? Good borrower, great steel, stealing things from other people. Gosh, doesn't matter. I forget.

There's some quote you stole not about stealing. What's that? You stole a quote. Did I steal a quote? I forget. It'll come back. Or it won't. Do people see your face when you talk now? Do you make that happen? I could show them. This is Neil, everybody.

Hi. Hey. I didn't know people were here. What's going on? One out of the 50 people up in the balcony. Yeah. That's the second time we've made that joke. I like the swarm of suits around us.

Yeah, I think we should just pretend. I got, I have a, my regular podcast, the Jeff Gaines Show, I've got one episode and it's 10 things I want to tell to Catholic entrepreneurs. Oh, I need to listen to that. And I went through 10 things of, don't do this. 10 things. Can, if Neil would Google that, could he share that below?

Sure. 10 things you would share with Catholic entrepreneurs. Young Catholic entrepreneurs. That's great. Good. And because I know it with Catholic entrepreneurs. Young Catholic entrepreneurs. That's great. Good. And because I know it looks like I have a gray beard, this is all show. This is a community play. I'm Tevye.

This is all color. I really am very young. But I being at the age that I'm at, which is over 30, I feel I have something to give to young Catholic entrepreneurs. And if I can be transparent and to say, look, I made mistakes and I had my eye on the wrong thing here and you don't do that, you know, and remember this and this and your family, you know, that Billy Graham was interviewed and he said, if you had it all to do over again, what would you do differently? He said,

less on the road, more with my family. At that age. So to be able to tell young people the traps and so forth, and the biggest one I mentioned on there is envy. If my mind is constantly on Matt Fratt, I will never be me and I will never get around to what God has called me to do. And if I can rejoice in your success and you can rejoice in my success, we have a wonderful bond that is powerful to minister out there,

you know, in, in the world. Um, I would say to young people do not look at this as a job, but look at it as a mission. And if you can make a living off of it, praise God. That's a wonderful thing to be able to do what you love, to be able to make a living. That's that's new. It wasn't that way 25 years ago, you know, and stay in your wheelhouse there. I like that point about focusing on something you're passionate about,

because I think the temptation too often is to be like, I'm going to speak about everything. Generally. I'm going to try to throw out the biggest net possible. But yeah, but, um, sometimes you can end up being as interesting as dentist art or like hotel adverts on the back of an elevator that no one has ever looked at or care about. It's so, they're not offensive, but they're not interesting.

So I think I agree with your point there. Like if you're passionate about this thing, that actually reminds me of that line from Wild at Heart. What's his name? Who wrote Wild at Heart? John Eldridge. He says, don't ask what does the world need? Ask what makes me come alive and then go do that

because what the world needs is people who've come fully alive. Yeah, and for me, it was that 48 hour period at 25. That's amazing. That was, I wasn't thinking of what do people need out there. I thought, what do I need, you know? Because I wanna be able to stand up and I wanna be able to play that fretboard and I want to make songs. I want to do all kinds of beautiful things

from the Word of God. And so, that's what was created was the Bible timeline. And then it went to go along with your example there. Then it went to what do they need? Well, you know what? They needed it too, you know? And I really want to ask, you have this giant piece of paper with the Bible timeline laid out on it. Hey, why are we both looking at our phones? What just happened? Neil's talking. It feels offensive. No, no, don't be offended. Did you ever worry people were going to think you were crazy? Like with this giant timeline? Walking around with your giant... I can't imagine like before you'd phoned anyone people were gonna think you were crazy like with this walking around with your giant I can't imagine like before you'd shown anyone. That's what you were thinking You've totally lost his interest

I just wanted to tell someone this beyond this that I thought I'll feel bad if I miss him so Tell them beyond this cut. What does that mean? Don't be on this? What's that? What just happened? I'm having lunch with someone. Oh, I just want to make sure that everything's cool. You know that he might have sent me something. Sorry. That's all editable. No, it's all live. You know, this is live.

You did I tell you it was live? Didn't tell me that. Yeah. But did you ever like worry that people were going to think you were crazy? Walking around with your big... When you first had this giant Bible timeline. Yes. Yes, I did.

You know, I remember one time when I was 18 and I had this powerful conversion experience and I went out and bought a Bible saying, now he's going through his. No, I'm doing work here. I'm looking at questions. Am I interrupting something, Matt? No. Do you mind just stepping out for a moment? Just kidding. I remember, it was one of my relatives, I carried my Bible to a restaurant

and she said, why do you have to carry that Bible everywhere? Your wife said that? No, my mom. So why do you have to carry that Bible everywhere? Your wife said that? No, my mom. So, why do you have to carry that Bible everywhere? It's kind of embarrassing, you know. And I said, Mom, I just can't get enough of it. I can't get enough of it. And so, when I... Yes, the answer is yes, Neil, because when I...

I used a method of learning real early on that is called the Zettelkasten method. Zettelkasten by Nicholas Lumen, a German social scientist. What he did is he wrote 60 books, 180 articles or something, and everything he read, he got from his index cards. He had an entire index system where every idea that he liked, he wrote down on a card and on the back of it, he linked it to other cards because he didn't have the computer system. And so when he would come across something, he would write it down and he would add it to his system. So he had stacks of these index cards. He was brilliant. And I wanted to do this. So I had all these stacks of cards

and then I would link them in this Zettelkasten method. And my people around me thought it was a little different. It was like a laboratory. How would you link physical cards? What does that mean? On the back, I would write down the cards that this card is linked to, and every card had a number. Kind of like a tag in an article?

Yes, yes. And so I could pick up an idea, and I could turn around and think, wow, that links to card number 1623 and number 722 with this, I grab those, bring them together. Whoa, something else is coming out of this. And that's the imagination and thinking. And this is something that I feel so strongly about today,

as long as we're talking about that, that one of the things I am concerned with is that there's a lot of us that are putting out material, teaching, ideas, all good. But I'm afraid that there might be a generation of knowledge hoarders. And what I mean by that is that they buy the books, they go to the conference,

they're on the conference online with the 94 teachers. And they love it. It's like, I love this stuff, but it just sits there and they continue to hoard more and more, but then if you ask questions about it, they're not able to articulate what they liked. And so what I'm encouraging people to do is, you know what, you like what Matt Fradd said,

you like that you wrote it down, live with it a little bit. Just take a day or so, think about it, meditate on that. And then what I do with my ideas is I write out your idea for a sixth grader. And then I think I know it. I know it. Because have you ever been talking to someone like Scott or whoever and you say, oh yeah, I gave this talk over in Toledo and I referenced you in the talk.

What would you reference? I can't remember right now, but it was good. And what I did is I read a quote. I didn't even assimilate it. Why did I give it onto them? So I think that taking these atomic ideas, these atomic notes, and then- What does that mean, atomic?

You've said that a few times. Atomic notes. Atomic note is the smallest particle. It's the idea. It's the nugget. It's the nugget. That's what caught me was that insight. Father Mike Schmitz and I just developed

what's called an insight journal where we write down the insights that we we love and I take that insight and I don't want that to go away. I want to use that in my life not just for a teaching. I want to live that. So then what I do I want to live that. So then what I do is I ruminate. I let it marinate in my thinking. I think through it. You know we were talking earlier about Jordan Peterson. Why do people like him? Well I think because he thinks. He thinks and you and I can think about something and make it our own and then when you stand up to talk or someone asks a question, you're able to say, well, let me tell you, you know,

Matt Fradd mentioned something on a show about two years ago that really caught my attention. He was talking about, and I'm giving him, what I regurgitated there. And I think that that's really, really powerful. The way we take notes needs adjustment. The way we take in data and knowledge needs adjustment. We're watching constantly TikTok, TikTok, Instagram,

so forth, all of this, all of this. And then we're starting to do that with the truth. And it's not finding good soil. It's not finding good soil. It's not finding good soil. Slow down with the truth. Let it sink into your heart. It's like we're bulimic. We're just taking it in and throw it back out. We're not actually digesting. Yeah. So I say that, say again, what did I say?

You want me to tell you what you just said? No, I'm just kidding. I can take what you said. If I say it seven times, it's mine. But it's a trick. But you know what I'm saying about the. Well, I'd love to know more. You mean about note taking because I'm reading Nick and Mickey and ethics right now, and I'm just loving it.

But I'm so afraid that 90 percent's falling out of my head. So I this mine is going to you're going to teach me something here. Right. So I'll underline what I find important. All right. A C on the column of where I feel like Aristotle's making the point. Here's the conclusion of the point. So I have little things like that, but help me help me take that. Yeah, that's a good example.

So you're reading Aristotle and you underlined a paragraph. That was what caught you. So what you do is you lift it from there and you bring it into your world. And what I do is I create in my computer and my Mac, I create a text file. It's the lowest common denominator. You type out what you've read the thing? Yes. I'll type out that quote on a- Interesting. I'd be doing that all day though if I I had to. On the text. Well, but this,

these are the things I want to keep. I see. You got to make a decision. Yeah. At some point. Is this really worth? What's the gold that you... So everything that I collect, some people collect stamps, some people collect cars. I collect ideas, but I want those ideas to be superb, life transforming ideas. And I want to connect those with each other to make something beautiful that I can live.

Give us an idea of two atomic thoughts that maybe you didn't think would initially connect, but you ended up connecting them. OK, so. So. I connected one thought when I have a letter that Vincent van Gogh wrote to his brother Theo about his struggle to get his father's love and that he wanted his father's love and acceptance. And so he went into theology. Most people don't know this. Neil doesn't even know this. Not even Neil.

But what Vincent did is he entered the school to study theology because his father was a Calvinist reformed preacher. He wanted to be like his father. So he studied, but he was awkward. And they ended up giving him a position in Belgium in the Bordeaux-Nage in the coal mines. He went in there, he sold everything he had, gave it to the poor, lived on straw and preached the gospel in the coal mines. He loved it. That was what he wanted to do. He said, I want to love and be loved deeply. This is still Vincent. Vincent van Gogh. And he said, I want to love and be loved deeply.

I want truth. And what I wrote about this was that had he been Catholic, he'd be a saint today. But his father came to visit him, the Calvinist, very prim and proper, you know. Sorry, I was almost in an Australian accent. He was very prim and proper. And he came to visit him, the Calvinist, very prim and proper, you know, sorry, I was almost an Australian accent. He was very prim and proper. And he came to visit him in the coal mines. And you know what he said? No. He said, this, this, you should be ashamed. Look at you.

What are you doing? You're supposed to be the example. He said, but father, I just want to love them. I want to preach the gospel. No, this is, this is horrible and Something happened in his relationship with his father that he moved away from the faith and he turned to literature Which was a meal Zola the French novelist and then Theo his brother said, you know what you should do You should draw you're good at drawing He started to draw so you should do? You should draw. You're good at drawing. He started to draw. He said, you should paint.

He started to paint. And his brother visited the impressionists, Manet, Monet, Pissarro, Renoir, Degas, Gauguin, all these guys. He said, they have color. You should use color, Vincent. So I gave him all these paints and he started to paint. Well, okay, so the first thought is the atomic note was

his note to his brother, that paragraph where he said, I just want my relationship with my father. Then later he painted a picture of his little home and there was a wicker chair, a wicker chair. And in that wicker chair, there was a smoking pipe, a pipe. Vincent smoked a pipe, but he painted the pipe on the wicker chair. Most of the people at the salon in Paris would say,

what an idiot, you're supposed to paint beautiful women and landscapes and cathedrals and a pipe on a wicker chair. Well, that is an atomic note because he said in a later note, this is as close as I can get to father who smoked a pipe. This is a portrait of dad. When I put the two together, it was like, that was an atomic idea, that simple painting and what he said to Theo, bringing them together and then realizing this guy expressed his love in a painting in the smallest thing in his father's life, which was the pipe. So those are two things that I would bring together. I may have something about,

read something about the love of David for Bathsheba that was improper at first and then look at improper at first and then look at another reading somewhere about his son and taking advantage of his half-sister and I have these two atomic notes and I realized hey there's a connection here. Well, well, David's son did to his sister what his father did to Beth Sheba. He took advantage of her and no one called him out on it except the prophet. And the son has learned from the father. So I got these two.

When I bring them together, I see something that is a lesson for today. See what I mean? So those are two atomic ideas. And so all of my notes are text files. I have thousands of them. And I didn't even show you here, but I use a program called Obsidian. Okay.

Like the stone, Obsidian. Yep. And it's free. And what Obsidian does is it allows you to put those text files into its ecosystem, and then you can start to link. You've got a document on transubstantiation. You can link it to atomic notes,

to things you've heard from Matt Fradd, Scott Hahn, Pope John Paul II, and they are linked. And it's the linking that is the power. And as you grow over the years, more is linked. And you start to see things you didn't see when you were 25, because you did something with the knowledge. You didn't just say, oh, that was really cool. Well, tell me more. Well, I read the book 20 years ago. You took from that book that what you saw was was powerful, insightful, and it's in your ecosystem now. Did you, did you find a difference to how you learned when you would write them

on index cards versus what you would write on the computer? Was one more effective than the other as far as? Yes, the computer by far. Is that right? Because I could do searches. I could say, okay, I want to do a search on love. All of my documents and quotes would come up and I would hit one of them. And then it and then it demonstrates, it demonstrates what's called a graph. But does this not just end up exporting parts of your brain onto a machine

that you then need to be relying on the machine for? You would be relying on the machine as a tool. But the goal, that's a good question. The goal is that these truths would be here, that I took the time to learn them and I took the time to make it mine. So what? So what? So that I would live it. And then the more you do this, you know, Jesus said, I'm going away.

And I get a kick out of it because he says, I'm going away, it's to your advantage. Like, what? I've been walking with you for three years and now you're going away and it's to my advantage? He says, I'm sending the helper. He'll lead you and guide you into all truth. Well, the Holy Spirit has to have something to work with here. And so, if I'm constantly focusing on truth and beauty and trying to learn about God and creation, and the Holy Spirit can use that to lead and guide me into truth. So hopefully the second brain,

I call it a second brain, is reflective of what I think about. You know, when I'm dead and gone, if you wanna go in and look, you say, that's what he was thinking about. So you can see, they create a graph. This particular- I wonder if we'd be able to,

this is, if you hold it up for that camera, we'll see if we can see if we can zoom in on it or see it in the middle. Could you do the one point? That one's going to work. Can you see it there or should I hold it up? You hold it up more like that.

Yeah, I have to refocus. It's OK. Yeah, it might be too small to you see the graph. Yeah, I see it. Yeah, those are Obsidian people can check that out. It's free. Yeah, if you if you hold it up That was one of the thoughts the Valley of Dauphin. Oh, what's that? If you hold it up by your head? They'll be able to see it. It's just okay. It's focused right by your head. So all right. Here's my brain Because I just think that's really what. Put it next to your other brain.

Can you see the resemblance? Point it at that one. You see the resemblance? Yeah. That's what's going on inside. That's why I'm so messed up. Somebody help me. So, in there is the Bible timeline.

In there are the sermons I gave when I was 25 years old. Amazing, you've been doing this forever. Yeah, in there are the quotes of John Paul II, all 150 that just turned my world upside down. In there is Aquinas. In there is the marriage, all topics, quotes, Einstein, Aristotle. So did you have to take this from the cards and then manually insert it, obviously? Over time. Do you still have the cards?

No. That'd be cool. I know, that would be cool. That would be cool. But I guess the point is, you and I are about truth. Okay? I'm sorry. Let's not be just addicted like TikTok of going through truth.

Let's let's truth is to be to marinate and to enjoy. And this reminds me of Thomas a campus. It may have been his first or second chapter where he said, you know, if you knew the sayings of all of the philosophers by heart, what would that profit you without compunction or something like that? I forget. But and then he contrasts the sayings of Christ with all the sayings of the saints and says that it's infinitely more superior. The point being, if I if a man lives his entire life meditating on the scriptures and I've got a million books that I bought from Amazon and I dabble in them,

he's far better off, right? Yeah. And I use my phone, you know, you probably have done this where you're hearing a talk or you're at a theater or something like that, or you heard on the radio something and you think, oh, wow, that caught me. That caught me. And what I'll do is sometimes I'll, I gotta use the restroom.

And I go in there and I say it in my phone, which goes automatically into my second brain. And then when I'm alone, and can look at it, cause I got a whole section of seeds that I heard that I have to ruminate over. I have to marinate. And I'm not gonna to let him go.

And there's a lot of them and I have to I have to make it make it mine, but I captured it. Yeah, I captured it. I find that just this last week, I've been delving into the ethics and I've been reiterating this to my kids and like trying to get them excited about it. You know, the sixth grade level. Yeah, exactly. And but it is interesting that when you teach or when you rearticulate something, that is what impresses it upon you, which is why I suppose if you teach a particular class, then you've kind of you know that in a deeper way that things you just read casually. Yeah.

Well, that's why Father Mike and I developed this insight journal with Ascension is because . Oh, okay. Is it out yet? Yeah, it's doing very, very well. And it's set up for you to collect the gold, the insights. And so I have an insight journal for myself and that is the gold of this. It's like, these are the thoughts that have become

so foundational and instrumental in my life, that if I'm dead and gone and I gave it to you, you could say, that was the goal. That's what motivated them, or that's what got them going. And so I have three grandchildren and I have one journal for each of my grandchildren. And I'm writing down all the time to Dominic

and to Francesco and to Fiona. Dominic, and to Francesco, and to Fiona, Dominic, I'm just thinking of you today, and I want you to know da da da da about theology of the body, and so forth, whatever it might be, and oh, if you ever look up in the archives, there's a guy called Matt Frat, he's got a really cool show, you know?

But I'm writing these, and my plan is, and I've got some tickets to the ball game we went to in the back, and how much I love him him and it has a place for prayer for him. It has a place of Favorite Saints. That's wonderful. And it has a life verses, you know to get a hold of this Dominic Yeah, when he's 18 if I'm still here, I Will hand it to him say Dominic. I have been loving you and praying for you for the last 18 years. This is what I wanted to share with you.

That sounds like something I'd get excited about for a day and then forget about. It's a prox to you for keeping it going. Yeah, you're right. It takes tenacity. And there are times where you just don't write anything for a period of time. My wife had a blessing journal that she kept for a while

where she would- I like his honesty, by the way. I just, yeah. But she would, she would write down little things throughout the day, you know, like very simple things. Just thank you, Lord, for this. And she would just write them down. But I think what helped her maintain it is, is it wasn't like I got to do 10 a day. It was just whenever it comes up. And I think of it, I pick it up and. That's what I do. That's a beautiful way to overcome it.

Because I've had a month where nothing. Yeah. But do I want to hear it when I hear it? Bing, bing, bing, bing. You know, that's that's for Francesco. So I want to get to some questions from our supporters on locals and Patreon. You just stand up and leave me whenever you need to go to your lunch date or whatever. Let me just look on that real quick. See, that's the nice thing about live. Yeah, it's great.

This is great. While you do that, let me tell people about Halo. Yeah. Halo.com slash Matt Fradd. If you click that link in the description below, you can get Halo, the full app for three months. So you can try it out before you even pay a cent and you can decide during that three months whether or not you want to keep going.

I love it. I actually use it. Right now, they're releasing a story of a soul and it's over 21 days and I've been listening to it every single day and I've been brought to tears by it. It's a powerful app, very well put together. I would highly recommend you check it out if you don't yet have it. H a l l o w dot com slash Matt. One day I'm going to remember this. Flash, Matt, Fred, saw slash Matt Frank, click the link in the description below.

And you can hear a bunch of people talk about a bunch of things that will be a bunch of greatness. Yes, that is true. Do you help with Jonathan Rumi's Hello? Yeah, there's something or do you record also for hallow? Yes, there's a devotion, a daily devotion that I'm doing with Jonathan Rumi, plays Jesus on The Chosen. He's a wonderful guy, great actor, great brother. He gives the gospel of the day, and then I give a devotion.

That's beautiful. gives the gospel of the day and then I give a devotion, a five-minute devotion every day. And so every day, you know, I get ahead of myself a little bit, but every day it's like the gospel reading and then that's where this comes in, my second brain, because if I'm thinking about something, I want to know what I was thinking about before about that. And I look at it and go, oh my gosh, I can't believe that quote of John Paul, I would have never about that. And I look at it and go, Oh my gosh, I can't, I can't believe that quote of John Paul. I would have never remembered that. And they're like, you know, cha-ching. I love it. You know, every day is a, every day is a, it's an exploration of, of just truth and beauty,

all around me. And it, and that's so much better than TikTok. Yeah. Check it out. Hello.com slash Matt Brad. All right. We got some questions here. I haven't read them ahead of time, so we'll just see what's going on. Rosemary Dempsey says when I was in grade school being taught how to think. Was a primary aspect of education today, the art of thinking is lost. The virtue of docility opens up to learning the virtue of knowledge is gathered, the gathering, the information we then move on to the virtue of docility opens up to learning the virtue of knowledge is gathered, the gathering, the information.

We then move on to the virtue of understanding and grasping the information, and then we discern the legitimacy of the information and it warrants consuming it into our memory, etc. She should have been on the show. Yeah, let's have her. She says, do you believe such a program should be returned to our society? I suppose she means that maybe today we're not being taught to think, but just to regurgitate things. Yeah, I think she has a very good point. I really do.

We're taught in school, it's actually a very poor system, and that is that I'm gonna sit in school, I'm gonna sit down with a piece of paper or my laptop or a pen, and the professor comes in and says, hello class, we are in science 101, and we're gonna start off with the amoeba. He goes up to the board and what's everyone doing? They're trying to write as much as they can

of everything that they're hearing. And so when they write everything that they're hearing, they are taking energy away from listening and trying to think. And so they write everything down as much as they can. At the end of the lecture, they got four pages and the only time they're gonna go back to it is for the test.

So they're gonna get tested on this. And it's just an exercise in, can you remember this for seven days? That's it. And that's it. And then when it's done, it's done. And I think that the way we should be listening is we're listening deeply to what is being said, making a few little quick notes, listening to it, and trying to figure out what is being said here. That's what I need to capture is what's being said. And, and, and so we, we do this,

the same thing as we did in high school, we're doing it at conferences. We're writing down as much as we possibly can. The only difference is we don't even get a test, just goes into a notebook or something. And so what I would encourage people to do is she was mentioning is think, And so what I would encourage people to do is she was mentioning is think to think God gave you this this mind. And, you know, to the Ephesians in Chapter three in verse 20 says that God can do far greater than anything that you can think or imagine. This is why talking with your children around the table about important things is helpful. It is very sad down with my daughter Avila yesterday and I said, how do you know this isn't your hand or is it? And she said well, I already already have two. I'm like, okay. Well, maybe you have three. Maybe this is it How do you know it's not I can't feel it. Well, you can't feel other parts of your body internal

How do you know, you know, we just had sure I'm weird. No, I like that. I'm like you I love that that type of thing, but she's exactly right in school today. There should be a Premium put on thinking, you know. Yeah, I just thought if someone could look through the window like, OK, that's what homeschooling is. Yeah, we're good. We're done. But they'd be wrong. All right. Kathleen says, can you please post pictures of your John Paul II motorcycle like a close up detail pic?

We won't be able to see that through that. Oh, I thought you were going to pull that. Do you have a John with a second motorcycle? Yeah, I am sharing it with a priest in Canada. What happened was, if I shot it on here- Can I see it though? I wanna see, oh yeah, I see what you mean. I don't know if it'll-

If you send it to Matt, we can put it- You can put it on? Yes, send it to me. I will do that. I can even put it up after the fact on YouTube. But if you slack it to me, man, I can try to. Well, I'm while I'm finding here, you want to know how I got it? Yes. OK.

Are you able to talk and look at the same time? Let's see. Go. Uh, yeah, you know, what happened was. I I've been I love motorcycles, you know, from the time that I was a kid. And. Orange County Chopper built it. It's a tribute bike to, go ahead and go back and forth. I, you'll see other pictures and different. Oh my gosh.

Isn't that something? The gas tank is John Paul the second. We're going to put this up after the fact, cause we're not going to be able to see it. It's going to be too difficult right now, but I'll put it in the community section on that, on YouTube. You can check Paul the second. We're gonna put this up after the fact, because we're not gonna be able to see it. It's gonna be too difficult right now, but I'll put it in the community section on YouTube. People can check out the images. Oh, people, this is golden.

Who did that for you? Well, I went to Buffalo, no, Rochester, New York, and I was gonna speak there, and a deacon picked me up, and he heard that I was a long-distance rider, and I'm a member of what's called the Iron Butt Association, which means that you rode a thousand miles proved in 24 hours.

And I thought I would say that to you because that's what I'm proud of. No. So I went there, he picks me up. His name was Deacon Money. He picks me up and he says, I got something before I take you to the hotel, I got something I want to show you.

And I said, okay. So he took me to this ministry called Hard as Nails. And I walked in there and there's this lady standing behind something that's draped with a cloth. He said, I said, what are we doing here? And she takes this off and there is the chopper, there's the bike. And I went, whoa! And it turned out that they had built the bike for some purpose that didn't turn out. And she heard about me and she said, I wanted to make this available to you

for a small fee. For evangelization, for a small fee. Yeah. Very small compared to what it was worth. It was worth about $150,000 or something. And it is very small. And she said, I know you use it for evangelization. I'm like, my gosh. And when you, and when the people see the pictures online,

you're going to put up Neil, it is staggering. On the tank is John Paul the second, on the back is totus to us, on the front, be not afraid. His emblem is on one side, his papal cross on the other, a hidden bullet on the bike, and it's amazing. So anyway, I got it, and now there's a priest in Calgary, Father Mary is a Polish priest who's fanatic about biking that I bike with. He has it now, and he's using it in high schools and he'll go and bring it in. And the kids are like, whoa.

And he stands and he teaches how about John Paul the second and what he taught about our lady and suffering and so forth. Just using the bike. That's really cool. That's neat. So I'll give you all those pictures. Alyssa Enriquez says, What does the Bible have to say about same sex romance? It's clear that homosexuality, at least acts are sinful, but is being romantic without being physical with a person of the same sex damnable, is what she says. Sounds like a good question for Matt.

That's so simple, Matt could answer that. As I used to say, that's so simple, Scott could answer that one. That'll do it. Yeah, well, that's such a big topic, we know that. And I think what she's saying is that, okay, yeah, we know that acting on homosexual desires is sin. And she's saying, are we getting pretty close with a romantic relationship with someone? It's not my wheelhouse, but I would say that yes, it can be dangerous, very dangerous,

because if I am married to my wife, but I'm emotionally very close to another woman out there, that's a problem. That is a problem because I'm giving something of myself a way that is improper and one step away from it. What would you say? Oh, so I don't know. That's a good question. So I can't tell if she's making that distinction between, say, a homosexual desire and homosexual acts, obviously, to experience temptation to something that's

inordinate or inappropriate isn't itself sinful. But you know, I like your analogy. Like if I encountered a woman who I got to know and could tell that there was something there and then I fed it, you know, through going out of my way to meet with her, talk with her, whatever. But didn't act on it. Yeah, exactly. That would clearly be inappropriate. And so I think trying to feed a desire,

but keep it at arm's length is seems to be inappropriate. It's problematic. Yeah. Drew says, with so many concerns about the leadership of our shepherds, how should we communicate these concerns and what would that look like? Well, that's a good question, because there's a lot of people, you know, that are concerned. I think that for most of us, we don't have access to some of the leaders,

you know, in the church. We just simply don't have access, but we do have access locally to leadership in the church. And I've always encouraged people when they say, well, I've got a problem with this, I've got a problem with that, to first of all pray, you know, pray and pray for that person. And if you get an opportunity to express that, you know, in a letter or you get a chance to talk to them, do so if you feel convicted about that. But ultimately, it's not people like me that are in charge of those things.

I can certainly have input, but I have enough on my plate to take care of in my life with a family and my job. And I think that there are a lot of people who are out of their wheelhouse, out of bounds, when they take it upon themselves to be the correctors, you know, of the church. So it's about my pay scale, but I can certainly pray and... I often think that way about righteous anger, you know, too

often we point to Christ's righteous anger in the temple, right? To justify our own anger, which so often goes off the rails because we're not the second person. And there is righteous anger and unrighteous anger. Righteous anger is that when something happens that causes you to be angry, you know, the church teaches us that that is a flag and a possible opportunity to bring about change. And so, for example, one lady, her daughter was killed by a drunk driver. She went to the penal stage of, you know, the penalty for this. And the guy got about three months in the local jail. She was outraged, angry. Now she could have went out and got a gun and said,

I'll bring justice. She could have hired someone, you know, but she didn't. She started to go to all the courts around the country to see how they were sentencing the drunk drivers. She was outraged. And what did she do? She started mothers against drunk driving. She took it as my anger is a flag and an opportunity to do something, to bring about the good and the restoration.

But a lot of times we become angry and it's just plain selfishness. And that's where you have to deal with it yourself. And you have to put that aside. But anger in itself can be a flag that something needs to change. It motivates us to make a correction. My point only is that we are flawed and we are riddled with concupiscence. And so we can sometimes seek to justify our sinful anger

by pointing to a righteous example of anger. And likewise, maybe we can point to someone, some saint who stood up and told the pope this and that. And we can use that to justify maybe our inappropriate way of doing it. Yeah, that's a good point. And yeah, I think that's really good. That's a difficult thing to discern.

You know, I don't want to be on the wrong side of that. Well, but maybe I have got mercy. Kyle Whittington says, Jeff, when you were in St. Louis, you talked a lot of smack about the blues. How are you feeling now? What? Okay. Kyle Whittington says, Jeff, when you were in St. Louis, you talked a lot of smack about the Blues. How are you feeling now? What? Okay.

I like hockey and the Minnesota Wild were in the first round of the playoffs with the St. Louis Blues and we lost. And so now the Blues are gonna go on. And I did talk smack in St. Louis and I, I repent of my smackness and I will be back next year. I will be. Ryan Hopkins says with the success of the Bible in a year podcast,

has there been any discussion about the possibility of doing a catechism in a year podcast? Yes, there is typical American capitalism. We're going to milk this friggin' brand. Quran in a year. Everything. Into the ground. Well, no, yeah, we're talking.

We are talking right now. I'll say, I said, that's what I can say is that we are, we are discussing the possibility of that. And that's all I can say. And my three lawyers are behind me in the other room. Right. Stacey B says, Jeff, I love you. You're saying get a Bible, get away and get with God.

I was wondering if you ever have to struggle with keeping this up and how do you make sure you carve out time in your busy schedule? Great question. This is the best question show on the internet right here. That's an ad I want to do for you. You want good questions? Yeah. Okay. I'll tell you how I did it I'm married and I have three girls. They're all grown up. My wife is an angel she is I love her so much, you know, and so

What we do is at the beginning of the day. We developed a routine We developed a routine that we stuck with, and we have done this for a long, long time now, and that is, I get up, and this is the key to it, carving out, she said it very well, you got 24 hours, and people say, I just don't have time. You have 24 hours, and you're either going to spend it with Hannity, or what you should be doing if you say, I

don't have any time. I could list a Ben Shapiro for an hour a day, but I can't go read the Bible. I know. So I wrote out a chart. I wrote out a chart, and I'll give it to you if you want to give it to your fans. Thank you. I would love that. And that is, I showed how long it takes to read each book of the Bible. And then I can compare it to,

I can read Ephesians and Colossians for one Hannity. That is terrific. I can, if I give up the evening news this week, I can read Romans and Hebrews. I think I'll do that. That's terrific. What a drug way to shame Catholics. Uh-huh.

But what I'm doing is I'm showing them that them that you can give up something for Ephesians. For sure. If you want Psalms, I'll tell you what programs to give up. You know? Pipe for the Aquinas. You can read the entire Bible. This is one program you don't want to give up. So what we do is I get up in the morning, every day it's like this.

I get up in the morning. What time? Pete Slauson I get up at about six in the morning. I immediately get fully dressed, I walk downstairs, I make tea. We drink green tea. And I make up a big pot of green tea, put two cups out like this. I put it over on the table when it's done, I bring out two Bibles, my wife's and mine, set them down, and I sit down and I start to drink the tea and look out the window. This is every day. And then she comes down the steps in 10 minutes, and she walks over and I say, I'll say to her, Bokertov. And Bokertov in Hebrew is good morning. I say, Bokertov, and Bokertov in Hebrew is good morning. Say, Bokertov, she says, Bokertov.

And she sits down, we're both sort of at that half conscious state, yeah, and drink a little bit of tea, and we talk to each other for about half an hour. And then we grab the Bibles and we read the Gospel for the day and we do Lectio Divina together and drink our tea and brew up a little bit more. And we're able to pray about our life and grandchildren, and we share with each other what the Word is saying to them today. And I know most people can't do this, but we do it every day for about an hour to an hour and a half every day. And that's how I start my day. And if I couldn't start my day that way, and I was home, there would be something wrong.

And not once have either one of us used that as a weapon when we were mad at each other, not once. What do you mean? Well, you know how sometimes when you get mad at your wife or you're disgusted with something or you're angry, you didn't get your way or whatever. Burnt the steak last night, whatever. And so the way we show that as mature men of God is we become silent. You know, what would Jesus do? Yeah, totally. So you could sit down and you're just like,

And he was just like, and nothing said. Or if I wanted to really let her know that she's wrong and needs to change, I wouldn't show up. That could be a weapon. That's weaponizing. That's what you mean by not weaponizing that time of prayer. I'm weaponizing our intimacy. Yeah.

And showing her, don't ever do that again. Yeah. Because it'll cost you this. We've never done that. Oh, thank God. So I'll sit down and she'll sit down and eventually God will straighten her out, you know? Yeah. Because it'll cost you this. We've never done that. So I'll sit down and she'll sit down and eventually God will straighten her out, you know? Yeah. So it's gonna give him time. Give God a chance. So we'll sit down and eventually, you know, it leads to, you know what?

I'm sorry. I really am. I'm sorry. And it's happened, you know, a few times in our life. And I'm just joking. I just say that to be normal. You've got such a dry sense of humor. There's no difference in your intonation or spacing of words when you make jokes. You've got to be quick. I like it. Okay. So in all seriousness, we do, we sit down and most of the days it's just a good morning and then we start to talk about the scriptures and my wife comes up with amazing things and they become atomic notes.

And she's like, buddy hell, Jeff, put the computer away. Yeah. Just want to pray with you. And we've done this for a long time and it's how I begin my day. So to answer the question, carve out something, a tradition, something that you could do and just do it. Even if you feel like, I don't know if I can maintain this. I think one of the biggest obstacles to people reading scripture on a regular basis, and

this is perhaps because I think this, because it's my biggest obstacle, is that I have this idea that Bible reading ought to feel a certain way, right? Like I'm going to be levitating or something. And then when that doesn't happen, I feel like I'm failing at it and I don't like failing. So I don't continue to do the thing that I'm failing at because I don't like that feeling. Yeah, that's a good point. And I think some people feel like that. I think it's the way we word it.

Let me explain that. I think it's the way we word it. And what we say is, I got to, I listened to the language, I got to have my prayer time now. I need to have my prayer time. Prayer time is this, it's like going to the gym, you know, I need to do my reps. And I don't want to do my reps. But well, if you look at it like that, I have to pray. If you said to me, Jeff, can you stay overnight tonight and stay in Steubenville for another day? And I say, Matt, I have to go home and spend time with the covenant partner. You think, what? Yeah, I need to spend time with my covenant partner.

Think, why, that's dry. Yeah. I get to, you know, so it's a relationship. I like that, yeah. I'm a disciple. It is a real relationship. I talk out loud all the time to the Lord because it's real. I'm in a car driving and when I pray, it's not all, it's not all mental.

You know, it's, I talk out loud to the Lord. It's, this is real. This is a real relationship. You know, if I went home and for, for a whole week, I never said anything to Emily. At the end of the week, she'd say, honey, yeah, why don't you tell me you love me? I did. I said it over and over in my mind all week. Oh, why don't you say it? Oh, you want me to say it? Oh, okay. I suppose I could do that. I've been loving you in my mind. I told you, I was, you know, how happy I am with you and what a beautiful relationship we have. Talk about it, you know?

And that is something that is really important in this carving out, in this intimacy with the Lord. You know, make it real. Learn a praise language. And that's when you read the Bible, you're learning, like in Psalms, how to praise the Lord. One time I was leading a, you'll love this, I was leading a weekend retreat for men. And we were up north in Minnesota and we got knocked in there by a snow storm, locked in rather, and we were supposed to come back Sunday, couldn't even get cars out of there.

We had used up all of our ammunition for our fun and games. All the beef jerky was eaten and it was just no food left. And it was all of us sitting there. And I said, well, you know what we could do guys, because Mother's Day was right around the corner. I said, let's just go around the room here. And I want you to tell the group, they're all married, tell the group a little bit about your wife and why you love her. So the first guy stands

up, you know, he says, uh, yeah, mmm, pig. What can you say about pig? She's quite a woman, quite a woman. Well, you know, and finally he comes out and he says, you know, I love that woman. She's amazing kindness. And he starts crying. Next guy stands up. Yeah, Joyce, they broke the mold after her, you know, and she's in one after another starts crying as they're saying

why they love their wives. You make fun of them. No, no, you didn't. Oh, I thought I missed where the story was going. So I did. So they went around and they came back home and their wives were like, you need to do another one of these. And our church grew. That's amazing.

The number of people grew and these women were like, what did you guys do up there? And all they did was they expressed their love, which they never did straight to their wife. They didn't look her in the eye and say, I love you so much because of this, this, this, and that changed their relationship. And so doing that with the Lord and talking with the Lord in a real way has a way of changing the relationship. My, my biggest prayer, Matt is Lord,

may I never lose touch of our relationship during the day. May I be aware of it all day long, that I am yours and. Brother Lawrence, right? Practicing the presence of God. Yes, yes, that's very good. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Even washing the dishes. What's that? Even washing the dishes as he did. Yeah.

Christopher Vandeur, something. Sorry, Christopher says, What was it like working with such juggernauts of Catholic media like Father Mike and Matt Fratt? Of course, how dare you, Father, we've talked about Father Mike. Maybe he missed that part, but. No, it's a, what is it like to work with? It's a privilege. You know, it's, it's a privilege.

It's inspiration. I learn when I, you can always learn, you know, and One of the things I've learned from you is that your strength over the years Came out of raw Transparency transparency, raw transparency is the beginning of your ministry of what you struggle with in your life. And you made yourself vulnerable. And it's when you make yourself vulnerable that people are like, I identify with that

guy. And if they identify with that guy, they can learn from that guy instead of being the all put together, you know, individual Jason Everett, like myself. What a joke. Ryan Pong says, How is the success of Bible in a year affected you? What fruits and struggles have you seen from this amazing ministry? Yeah, the fruits are just incredible. And, you know, they're gigantic in terms of what's happened in people's lives

all the way from anybody that's out there that nobody knows to Hollywood actors and actresses that are saying I do this, I love it, I'm reading it, politicians, I do a monthly study for the House of Representatives in Washington via Zoom and all of them are like Bible oh, Bible in a year, just my wife is going crazy. And you know, the kids love it. We talk about it at breakfast. So it's everywhere, you know, it's ubiquitous and that's great.

What was the other part of that? Well, I guess how has it affected you? How's it affected me? It's affected me, you know, in the way of humbling to see what the Lord can do with small things that were small for me, something I did, started with, and others are taking care of it. When you look at the Bible in a year, you have to remember that, yeah, it was a 25-year-old who made that Bible timeline chart out of a hunger for the Word of God, and it just sort of grew over the years.

There were many years where nothing happened to it. It was sitting on my desk. And once I came back into the Catholic Church, a lot of people touched it at Ascension Press. A whole team helped in all that, the graphics and everything, the cameraman. And so when I was done teaching it, they continued to work and do their part, and I was onto something else. So it became an expression of a big team. And then of course, Father Mike, part of that. So I have learned that we're the body of Christ and that we have a role to play in it.

And we're not the thing. We all work on the thing which is the the good news and it's the kingdom of God. Do you often find there's a stereotype that Catholics aren't really into the Bible? Have you heard from a lot of Protestants who are just shocked that this is a Catholic thing? Yes and there's been several of these podcasts with Protestants where they are stumped. How did that happen? Did you hey Joe did you hear the number one podcast is two Catholic guys and just reading the Bible?

How did that happen? You know? So yeah, there, and it's also been a place, a time of bringing us together to say, yeah, we love the Bible. This is what we're about. Yeah. And they're, um, I think that they, I remember you said something in one of your original teaching series that struck me.

I've never forgot it. it's an atomic thought. Maybe you said what often happens is, you know, January 1st comes around. We go buy a new Bible because the old one's broken and we get really excited about it for a few days and then we put it aside and we pick up some nice devotional. Yes, and the devotional might be great. But your point was problem is the church hasn't commanded you to read devotional. But the church has commanded you to read it. You said something like that.

Yeah, what I said is you get all excited and you're going to read the Bible this time of the year. So when do you start? January 1st. You got to start then because you start some other time. Who knows where you're going to end? So you start on the first, you get a new Bible because the old one didn't work. You get a notebook, you get a pen, not just any pen, but you get a waterman.

You get a pen that expresses your deep thoughts because these will be read by people for ages. So you get all that and then you start January 1st, Genesis, and you get into February reading Exodus and in March you quit because you are in Leviticus and you lost the story. And when people lose the story, they give up. And that's what our teens do today. When they lose the narrative thread of their life, they can give up. And that's part of what suicide is about, is that my story is over and I can't make sense out of my life. And I didn't think it would end this way. And, and what they didn't realize was that they put a period where God put a comma and,

and that the story goes on. And so what, um, what we did is, is we told people, don't read, don't read it right now. Um, Leviticus, let's just keep on enjoy the story. We'll come back. We'll show you where that belongs. And that's Exodus 32, the golden calf incident. But yeah, that's, that's what we talked about that. I'm surprised that so many people remembered those analogies, you know, of, but maybe they experienced them. They read, they said, I'm going to read it. And then they gave up. And then they started to read. Well, it's nice to realize you're not that special.

Like when somebody points out the story of buying a Bible and giving up, like, oh, I see. So I'm not peculiar. I'm just human. Yes. Yeah, you are. And what people were in need of is how to do it. And that was, I think, the magic of the timeline. So, yeah, it was showing them how to them how you can actually achieve this. We didn't bring this up, but if people want to take the Bible in a whatever, not the Great Adventure Bible study, what do they do?

Where do they go? And can we link this, Neil? Yeah, you can go to ascensionpress.com and then once you register, you have access to about 75 different studies that I've done and Father Mike's done and Andrew Swofford and others have done, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Tessary. So once you're in that ecosystem, you can order any study there, you order the books, and then you can go through it on your own or within your church. And where you stop, you pick up the next day, it knows where you're at in it, it's kind of smart. It's way over my head, you know, these guys are brilliant,

what they put together. How long does it take folks to get through it? Well, there's two ways to go through the whole Bible. The quick way is eight half-hour sessions called Unlocking the Mystery of the Bible, and I did that at a big opera hall, and it was really kind of big and it was fun. And then the other one is the Great Adventure Bible timeline. That's 24 one hour talks all the way through the Bible. I'll do the first one. I don't know if I can do that second one. Start with the first one. Yeah. And yeah, so those are two. Whatever happened to Mark Hart's T3 Bible?

They just redid it. Did they? Did Mark give it? Yes. He is such a gifted presenter. They just redid it. Thanks for bringing that up. And it's doing really well. And then there's a junior high one too. And there's another one.

You got kids. We have a brand new one called PBS. For toddlers. Yes. No. It's for grade school. Okay. And it's called PBS or GPS.

That makes more sense. GPS, God's plan in salvation, GPS. And it is amazing. They put together with a group of women who are educators and you can use it in a school or home. And it is phenomenal. It has a teacher's workbook, it has a student's workbook, and we're really thrilled with that.

So this is great. Some people could do this if they were homeschooling until they're wise about it. Yeah, so we've got all the way from kids that can't read with a book to all the way to the big 24 hour, you know. And then the highest one is where you just read The Vulgate. Yes, exactly. And that's, yes. And that's yes.

And I do have a series on discovering the meaning and explanation of the Trinity. And that one is 1700 CD. Yeah, yeah. We don't have CDs and CD. I know. They do. That's my problem.

Not my problem. That's the only way you can consume this. If it means enough, go to a second hand store or antique shop. What's your favorite? I'll tell you my favorite translation. You tell me if I'm wrong to I'll just cannot quit the King James version. You like it. Well, I love it. It's got the Deuteronica Deuteronicals, Cambridge Press.

Yeah, you know, yeah. Well, when it comes to that, you know, there's two that we typically use. We use the RSV Catholic edition, Catechism uses it. Great Adventure Bible is the RSV CA, the Catechetical edition. And enough said about that, that's the one you should use. But then there's also the New American Bible, which is in the mass. And it sounds different. It sounds a little bit different. You know, those are the two that- There was some sort of weird thing that happened with ESV, which we may not go into,

but it was, they were publishing it for Catholics at some point, and then I guess, do you know what happened? Yeah, it's kind of, I don't know where exactly it is at now, but I know that the Protestant version of the ESV with a, they call it the Apocrypha, is available with Cambridge. But there are, like you say, you like the King James. I don't think there's anything wrong with reading a beautiful translation of the Bible.

And I find the Douay-Rheims awkward. When I read it, some of the, I just, I can't, people would just read the Douay-Rheims, like it's the same thing. Right, I don't use it very, really much at all. I use the RSV Catholic Edition because I, you know, we're all on the same page there. But if you saw my library, Matt, it would blow your mind because I have, I have dozens of what are called premium Bibles of every translation and it is

goat skin. It's, it's, it's done in the Netherlands, in French paper. Seal skin. It's it's it's done in the Netherlands French paper and seal. Unicorn neck skin. It is amazing. And I love the I love the quality Bibles there. And who knows what we're going to see in the future here with the Great Adventure. I like what Carl Keating said. He gave gave a whole article, you know, writing about which translation, etc.

And he basically said, which translation should you use? The one you'll read. The one you'll read. Yeah, get people into Scripture. Yeah. And you know, the way we're handling it is that it's very important to study the Bible in the heart of the church. And so the translation is less important than I think the heart of the church and understanding that because today on here, I got dozens of translations. I can go to any second just to find out, how do you translate that word?

But again, I don't want studying the Bible to become TikTok. Totally. I wanna- Are you happy with what Ascension did with your Bible essentially, or how they put it together? Yeah, yeah. We're talking about some new cool things,

at some point maybe, but- I'm not a big fan of the rubbery cover feel. Yeah, it's kind of got that faux leather feel, which I don't like. Yeah, I brought you on just to trash Ascension's Bible. No, it's a beautiful Bible. Yeah. I just wish it were more like Ignatius's. What we will see. Maybe get my back in the meantime.

I would like it to get better. See, I can't say anything because I like the interior, but I don't. I don't like how it's yeah Yeah, more money don't obviously don't love it judge a book by its cover Is what I would say to you? Okay, yeah do not judge but more could be coming you could be cuz I'm sure that's one possibility You've heard it first time the man French Oh a couple of the lawyers are waving you down. They're from the balcony. I said what? Shut up. A couple of you all. Whoa! All right, that's exciting. We'll see, you know,

but the point is getting there. Because I'm tired of Protestants having the best Bibles. ESV, goatskin, leather, black thing. It's gorgeous. I'm with you. I'm with you. But the question is, will Catholics purchase that? Do you know when I first started the Great Adventure? Father Mike Schmitz will see to it that they do, make it happen. Make it happen. Yeah, I think you could, sorry. So, yes, and no, no.

But I agree with you, and I was gonna say is, they told me at the beginning, when I brought the Great Adventure idea and the 24-week study, I brought it to three publishers. You know what they said? No. You know why? Three reasons. It's too long. Catholics don't study the Bible at this depth, and they won't pay for it. That's what they told me. Three of them. And it was Matt Pinto that saw at a conference. I gave a conference in Philadelphia where I do the Bible timeline in a day. He was sitting out

there, you know, Matt, yeah. And, and Matt was just writing notes after note, after note, after note, after note. And I'm thinking, man, he's really getting into the Bible. He had like 25 pages of notes on how this thing can change the world. God bless him. That was him. He's such a great dude. That was his mind. And so he said, Jeff, okay, we got to do this. We got to do this.

And so it was partnering with Matt that really, or is it the? Yeah, both. Is it both? I think it's both. We only had four hands. It's trying to be cool. My daughters are tired of me trying to be cool.

Her friends come over, you know, and I'd say, hey, what's up? And you're like, hey, tired of me trying to be cool. Her friends come over, you know, and I'd say, Hey, what's up? Come and look at my motorbike. Yeah. And look at I put on makeup. TV. What makeup? For television. I wore makeup. Life on the Rock. So I'm glad you fleshed that story out. It got weird. I would embarrass my daughters when their friends would come over. I said what kind of foundation you guys? My daughter's like dad shut up. Just I use origin

I remember my dad would get offended when my cuz he'd walk around in his underwear. It's just like all day Which is good for him. It's his castle. I remember my my sister Emma dad Could you please like when my friends come around, just like, please have a shirt on. Bloody hell, I get offended by it. I bought this house. That's right. Those are my windows. People want to look through them. It's at their own discretion.

That's cool. But but but cool, cool, cool, cool. But generally, you're happy with the Bible, but at least the the outlay, how they. Yeah, it's like anything else. That's first round. That's I'm sure there's going to be two point oh three probably couldn't keep up with Selman. Oh, we were so we were underwater when we had no idea. Yeah, everything gone, reprint, reprint, reprint.

And it was it was a little frustrating, to be honest with you, because I was like the pages, the feel of the pages. Yeah, yeah. Well, you and I are in like the pages, the feel of the pages. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you and I are a lot alike. And you see what he likes. I'm just wondering if Ascension was thinking of promoting this episode. And now they're like, actually segment of that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

For your information. No, you're right. There are different kinds of paper. And I would say this. I would say this. We'll see. We'll see. Oh, I'm excited. There are different kinds of paper.

And there's India paper. The best paper in the world is French-milled. I could talk to you literally, Matt, about 15 points of what makes a premium Bible. Literally, I mean, I'm a student of this. And I think that we're in the Catholic world, we're getting to that point where you just might see it at some point here. Isn't that amazing? Because probably for maybe a decade or more, you've been frustrated that

Catholic's going to have better Bibles than Protestants. And what you did all those years ago in 48 hours may be the impetus for why Catholic's going to have even better Bibles than Protestants in five years from now. Yeah, well, we didn't have a good Bible like the Great Adventurer's Song, then we got it. Then we had talk show hosts complaining about the cover and the paper didn't feel right, you know? Wait, I've gotta get this out here just in case Ascension or any press is watching. I've always wanted a Bible because there's the books of the Bible, right? So what if you had each of the books of the Bible as its own book and then you just could put it up on your shelf?

You know that's a thing, right? It is a thing, but it's not a big seller. Well, ESV does it. Oh, I see. But it's not a huge... That's terrific. You like that? I love it.

There's a little black kind of a moleskin. That's what they kind of look like. Big moleskin things. Yeah. That's why the Insight Journal is like a moleskin. Is it? I don't know. I just told you earlier what the...

Insight? Insight Journal is a journal to write down the insights of Father Mike and I. Oh, okay. Went together., together, I wasn't listening at that point. It's just vodka. Water. It's clear people can't tell the idiots.

OK, yeah. And then I've also seen this new group, obviously Protestants, because it's beautiful, is that printed them in magazines. I love that there's also going to force feed people who are totally uninterested in reading. What if we did this?

Then they'll read it. We'll send someone over to you and he will read it to you against your will. There's another one out there that is kind of interesting and I can't remember the name of it now. It's a Bible. You open up the Bible and it's got like little QR codes in it and you put your phone over it and then all of a sudden a commentary comes up about that and that's where I have a, do you know what we did a study, oh supposed to be eating with my friend. We should really wrap this up then.

Three hours. Has it? Or just having too much fun. I can come back after lunch. I'll just, I'll stall while you're off. I'll read the Bible. I'll read Leviticus. This is what we did. We had this guy that does these pollings and studies, research for Medtronic and all these other big places. And he was going to do one, I think it was for one of the major Catholic ministries. And I talked to him and I said, look, I got a hypothesis and that is this, that millennials, when it comes to studying God's Word or when it comes to doing lexio divina and so forth, if they had a choice between this and a beautiful Bible, they will take the beautiful Bible.

And he said, you really think so? I said, yeah, I know so. I said, they'll use this to look something up quick. Yeah. But when it comes to living in it, it's going to be the paper. It's going to be paper. And in recently, the paper companies and stationary are going through the roof because you know why? Get this, you're not going to believe this, but you can Google it. People are learning to write. No. Oh yeah.. But with a pen, a pen, I'm telling you, it's happening. And it's I never thought this would happen. They're actually laying ink on paper.

I'm like, oh, dude, that is really backward. And they're liking it. I see that's got to stop. I know that's another show. But I said to him, I said, do the research. You can word it the way you want. I'll bet you they'll say that. And he got back to me about five months him, I said, do the research. You can word it the way you want. I'll bet you they'll say that. And he got back to me about five months later and he said, you're not going to believe this.

It's close to 99 percent. They want the paper. Yeah, totally. Because you don't want your Bible next to you. You don't. I had this conversation with a friend. We were sitting out in the back porch and she was over for a couple of days visiting my wife and and she would always look at her phone while we were talking, you know, and I was like, Yeah, I hate that.

And at one point I just, excuse me. At one point I was like, could you could you stop doing that? It like, why are you doing that? Be with us. I said it in a less abrasive way. I know it's rude to be honest with you. But then she said, because I had a book, I'm going to keep talking through this. It will be as Genesis for period. I think we're at Revelation right now in this interview.

And then I said, yeah, could you know, why are you doing that? And I had my book opened up on my lap and she's like, and I was glancing at it occasionally and she said, well, what's the difference? And at first I thought she'd got me, but then I realized she hadn't. And here's why I act on a book, but a phone acts on you. That's a good point. I think that's why we want the Bible. We don't want the car here.

Yeah. All right. So anyway, we've come to the end of the show and I'll tell you this ascension. If you bring out a great Bible, Pines with a Aquinas will flog it for you. Absolutely sell it. Hardcore in apologies for, yeah. Cool. Well, thanks for coming on the show.

It's been good. It's been great. Anything else? Well, my wife is leaving, not me. My wife is leaving. She's going to Israel and she's an archeologist. So she's going to be at Shiloh and doing some digging there and then I'm going to go join her. That's so cool. That's what we do. We love taking trips to Israel. So that's what we do. I've never been to the

Holy Land. I got to bring you. Okay. I'll bring you. Like tomorrow with your wife? No, not tomorrow. No, we have several trips next June Father Mike and I are going to Israel and I like to us. I don't get with people I don't like people showing me things and going in buses with randos. I hate that. No, we just want to go to pubs No, I want to go on my own or with another couple of people but I don't like either way I don't like to us either way your two is good body of Christ. I Want to amputate myself. All right. Well, on that unfortunate note, thanks everybody for watching. Please check out the links below. You can learn about the great adventure podcast,

which everybody already knows what I'm even telling him about it. But also when they can where they can go and watch those videos of Ascension, that eight part series sounds really exciting and the stuff of the kids will put that in there. Anything else that'll do? Oh, if you want to go to Israel with me, go to jeffcavens.com and I'll get you over there. And this coming trip in two weeks, I'll be there. That'll be my 59th pilgrimage to the Holy Land. You and Steve Ray, kind of on a contest. I don't think we're in. I think we do different things there. But you know what? To begin to get this at the beginning of the covid, I had

an Australian tour all lined up and I was going to go all over Australia. You've been there to Australia? I have been there. Yeah, it's no New Zealand, but it's OK. Oh, I just thought that was a coffee table.

People are very upset because Tasmania is not on it. Is that where you're from? No, no, I'm from here. I'm from the Adelaide cutout part. Yep. What did you do? No, I was going to go all over and everything got canceled.

I will always want to go to Australia. No. Oh, crikey. How great would it be for you to ride your bike? You know, it's cracking me. Crikey. I'll have to Google it. Crikey.

If you want to get to pints with Aquinas along with a glossary. Oh, you know what I should do? I should do, you could do your tour to Israel and I'll do a pub crawl through the city of Brisbane and I'll compete for your people. Well, you know, I like to do my pub crawls alone. No, pub crawls I'll go with people. I still want to go to a bus. I don't want to go with the group.

I just want to go to the pub myself. Do you like tours? I hate tours so much. Really? Oh, God, I can't stand them. What are you going to do in heaven? It's a big, big tour. Is it a tour?

Don't tell me that. I mean, I want to go. I was just in Auschwitz a couple of weeks ago. I was too. A couple of weeks ago? Yeah,. I was just in Auschwitz a couple of weeks ago. I was too. Yeah, I was right before the. I say a couple of weeks. I was right before the covid. Oh, OK. Well, yeah, I was about a month or two ago.

It was subtle and it was powerful. I think I like that, too, because there was just a lot I couldn't have known, you know, without someone telling me. I was shocked at how prominent Colby was. I thought he would have been one story among many. But he's a prominent figure there. Yeah. It really had a big impact on me. Father Josh Johnson and I went and I don't want to be a name dropper,

but father Scott Hahn always tells me not to be a Benedict told me not to be a raven. All right. Yeah, we went there. It was like, it was life changing. Yeah. You more so than I thought it was going to be, especially with Pope John Paul II. The hair, that's what freaked me out. Hair, the ponytails that had been cut off

when they were gassing these women. Oh, yes. That was all that gigantic room of hair. I know. You just pronounce it differently. Hair. We should make a joke with two men. Ashwitz. I know on that note, that's our second ending.

Do you like a normal McDonald? Do I like old McDonald? Norm McDonald. Yes. Here's a show called Hitler's dog. If you think I'm going to end a stand up on Hitler's dog. And that's how he ends it. Yeah.

Is this the third inning of our show? The third inning. You've ended it three times. You got to stop. Just stop it. Stop it now.