Pints With Aquinas - The Catholic Teaching on Su*cide? | Fr. Gregory Pine, O.P.

Episode Date: September 7, 2024

The Church's condemnation of suicide as a grave sin can seem quite harsh. Fr. Pine breaks down the compassion and mercy actually present in the Church's understanding of suicide. Support The Show: https://mattfradd.locals.com 📖 Fr. Pine's Book: https://bit.ly/3lEsP8F 🖥️ Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ 🟢 Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/pintswithaquinas 👕 Merch: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com 🚫 FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ 🔵 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd  

Hello, my name is Father Gregory Pine and I'm a Dominican friar of the province of St. Joseph. I teach at the Dominican House of Studies and I work for the Thomistic Institute. And this is Pines of the Quinas. In this episode, I want to talk about suicide. Obviously, suicide is a very sensitive issue and it can be a very painful issue, especially for those who have contemplated it for themselves or who have lost a beloved member of their family or close colleague to suicide in the past. So we approach the topic with a kind of fear and trembling.

But I want to approach it because sometimes the Church's teaching and practice can be a little bit confusing to people, or a little bit discouraging to people. So perhaps you've heard it said that the church teaches that suicide is a grave sin or the church practices include kind of differentiated funereal rights or burial rights for those who have committed suicide. To some people, it can seem like a little gratuitous. It's like, for instance, let's say you get in a car accident and then the police officer shows up and then at the end of the exchange he gives you a ticket for reckless driving. You're like, what the heck?

My car is already destroyed. Did you need to do that as well? And I think that's sometimes how people can feel about the Church's teaching and practice. So I want to approach it with a kind of openness to what it might reveal and even to the grace it can mediate. So that way we can come to know God better and come to live the Christ life with greater fullness. So how about we say a little prayer and then just talk about it. Here we go.

In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen. Grant us grace, O merciful God, to desire ardently all that is pleasing to thee, to examine it prudently, to acknowledge it truthfully, and to accomplish it perfectly, for the praise and glory of thy name, who live and reign forever and ever. Amen. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen. Okay, so I think at the outset, it's helpful to clarify what the church does judge and what the church does not judge. So you've heard it said, you know, like, hate the sin, love the sinner, love the sinner, hate the sin. There's something like that going on here, but the church is able to

define with certainty and confidence what falls within the bounds of life with Christ and what falls without the bounds. But then the church also recognizes that people are complicated. It's not a mere matter of I choose this or I choose that. There are a lot of different factors that are involved. So I think it's helpful for us to distinguish amongst the physical and emotional and psychological and spiritual components,

so that way we can get greater clarity. Because the church, you know, doesn't judge physical, emotional, or psychological sickness, it compassionates physical, emotional, and psychological sickness. It provides resources, it provides helps. And when it comes to the spiritual life, the church obviously is encouraging, the church is emboldening, but also the church will render judgments on certain acts or on certain things, so that way we have greater clarity and we can live our lives with greater conviction. So, when it comes to suicide, there are certain factors that contribute. Obviously, we're not going to name all of them, but there are feelings and there be characterized as emotional or psychological conditions that pose obstacles or hindrances to thinking well and choosing well.

So that would be mitigating factors, things that would be limiting our ability to choose. But then once we start getting into the kind of spiritual range, kind of going beyond the emotional or the psychological, something like self-hatred or despair, clearly there are going to be some emotional and psychological things mixed in, but that's often enough a spiritual malady, a spiritual sickness. Now are we wholly and entirely capable of reversing course in these things or of just converting on the spot? No, it's going to take time. The healing and growing is going to require a kind of process from us. But we should be able to distinguish between the emotional, psychological and the spiritual.

So I think too, it's helpful to sort out amongst the motivations for which reasons people might commit suicide. So some people overwhelmed by a sense of shame. Into that the church speaks a word of encouragement, right? You are not the sum total of your weaknesses. You are not the sum total of your sins. You are the sum of the Father's love for you. Or perhaps fear of punishment, okay? A this-worldly punishment, a temporal punishment.

And the church helps to clarify, we need not fear that by comparison to an eternal punishment Obviously facing the music can be difficult But the Lord provides a way through the Lord provides strength for every occasion or maybe just you know a kind of a kind of need for escape and this can take various forms and There can be an ignoble need for escape or in some cultures a kind of noble need for escape. And so you can think of certain ancient societies like I'm thinking of the character Cato of Utica who killed himself when Caesar crossed the Rubicon because he didn't want to cede his freedom. A man who's esteemed in the Divine Comedy in the Purgatorio as the guardian of the shore because of his love of liberty.

And that's strange to find a suicide in purgatory because you've already encountered practically all of them in the inferno, in the seventh circle there in the suicide wood. So in certain ancient societies, like ancient Rome, suicide is sometimes seen as a noble way to extricate oneself from an intolerable situation. And you might think, well, that's 2000 years ago. So come and gone. Well in certain medieval communities This is also practice So there's a heretical community called the Abelgenzians and the Cathars That were the reason in part that the Dominicans were founded to confront this heresy

And they have a kind of wholesale rejection of the material world because they think it's created by an evil God And so they reject the incarnation they reject the sacraments they reject I mean the propagation of human life and for them like the highest sacrament is a kind of ritual suicide so for them it's a matter again of nobility and again you might think all right ancient medieval but that can't possibly be with us still. In certain modern societies you find something similar, like in post-war Japan for instance, there would have been people who having done this or having supported this or having argued in this manner, the only way to extricate themselves was by committing suicide. The only way in which to reclaim something of their family's honor in appropriate fashion would be by suicide.

So at some level you can see why people think it noble. It represents a choice against that strongest tendency of our human nature for self-preservation or a kind of detachment from the goods of this world or from all good seemingly. But it's not the type of nobility which can all goods seemingly. But it's not the type of nobility which can be virtuous nobility because it's not fixed in the good. So it's not something that has God in mind and the various human communities for which we are responsible at heart. Okay, so why do I talk about all this? I think it's helpful to make sense of some of our intuitions about the matter because they can be jumbled and mixed.

We want to separate out the emotional and psychological and we want to propose healing and growing. We want to sort out the spiritual, recognize the way in which the emotional and psychological often contributes, but say that there is a way in which we as human beings are responsible for our choice. Now, there can be a variety of motivations, shame, fear of punishment, need for escape, and even a kind of noble need for escape, but none of them are sufficient. Why? Well, because the church teaches that suicide is a grave sin.

Now, let's be clear about what we do and do not mean. The church does not judge persons while they are alive except in so far as to heal and grow them within the setting of the sacramental life and the sacrament of confession or anointing of the sick in certain instances. But then the church does clearly delineate what is in the bounds of life with Christ and what is outside of the bounds of life with Christ. And so when you perform an act, which to all appearances seems an act that falls outside the bounds, the Church will pronounce upon that as a way by which to help you get back within the bounds. So the Church is not a finger wagger or a nagger, she is a helper so that you can be better equipped in securing salvation. And so when the Church teaches that suicide is a grave sin, it's in that

spirit. And when the church practices, or it was in former times, to celebrate funereal rights and burial rights in distinct fashion for those who commit suicide, again it's with that disposition. So some people think, whatever, you know, the church is just saying suicides go to hell, but we know that everyone goes to heaven, so the church is wrong and we ought to just toss it all out and live our little enlightened lives. So the church has never taught that all suicides go to hell. The church has taught that suicide is a grave sin. If unrepented, one goes to hell.

But the church also recognizes that there are certain things which can limit our culpability or even undermine our agency. We talked about that at the top of the episode. And the church also says that we remain within the grasp of God or not beyond the limits of his mercy until such times we take our last breath. So there's a famous story where St. John Vianney was celebrating the funeral for a man in his parish who had taken his life and in talking to his mother he said, you know, we don't know what he thought We don't know what he chose in those last moments. So we commend him to the mercy of God Okay, so within that spirit, we understand that the church believes that we can commit grave sin. It's part of our responsibility It's the terrible part of our responsibility that our grave sin can exclude us from God's life, right?

It can exclude us from the life of heaven, but that God gives us all grace sufficient to flourish, that he desires that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and that we have an opportunity in recognizing that to receive that. Okay? So when saying that it's a grave sin, the church is saying that suicide is contrary to charity, right? So charity is the love of God and neighbor, and we're kind of included in the sense of neighbor. So it's against the love of God for whom we are made. So we are God's and we are made for his worship. We are made for his glory. And by committing suicide, one chooses against that love, which holds God in mind and heart,

but also against the love of self and against the love of one's neighbor. Typically though, when we talk about it, we talk about it under the rubric of justice because it's contrary to justice. So it's a special kind of homicide, a homicide perpetrated against oneself intentionally. And when we talk about homicide, we're talking about killing an innocent person as a non-delegated member of the polity. So there might be reasons for which you execute capital punishment as a member of the state, or you might prosecute a just war involving killing enemy combatants, or you might even defend yourself against an unjust aggressor. But in ordinary circumstances, you're not out there killing people, so you shouldn't kill an innocent person. In suicide, one does just that. Furthermore,

in suicide one does harm to the common good. And think about it in these terms. The church doesn't mean like you're just a cog in a wheel and when you opt out of the wheel that's more work for the other cogs. No, no. The church is saying that you actually contribute. You make a difference to your family, to your polity, to your church. And when we talk about the common good, we're talking about that network of relationships which orders us to hire communities and ultimately fulfills us in God. That we are capable of a common conversation and a common project, that we're capable of genuinely sharing our lives and making our lives as a result that much more rich. But when we, you know, when a person commits suicide, he undermines those ties that bind

us. And in a certain sense, he kind of trivializes them. That's probably the farthest thing from his mind, but you can appreciate the sense in which this is true. I think about this like when a priest does a bad thing, it causes folks to look with suspicion on other priests, even priests who haven't done bad things. Like you can think about the practice where all priests have to get letters of good standing to do anything in the world because of liability. And it's just brutal. It's just sad. It's just really sad.

But you can understand the reason for which, given scandals of the past. And so when a priest does a bad thing, I'm sad about it, but I'm also angry at him because it trivializes the priesthood and it makes people look on the priesthood with suspicion. And so there's a sense in which when a person commits suicide, it trivializes the human communities to which he pertains. It says this family's not worth it, this polity is not worth it, this church isn't worth it, or at least I can't stick around for it because it's just too hard. worth it, this church isn't worth it, or at least I can't stick around for it because it's just too hard. Which again, it's sad, but it should make one maybe, perhaps, a little bit angry. And then the last is it's an offense to God. God owns us. He's our Lord and He's our Master and we have our

lives on loan from Him as a kind of ongoing creation and we're responsible for rendering our lives to him in worship And god's also our judge, right? So we come before god in the end But we come before god in every moment of our life because we're transparent to his gaze and because he searches our hearts Not again to wag or to nag to wag the finger or nag at us but to call us forth or call us up into a higher life. So God is not just creator, he's also provider, he's also governor, and he does not permit us to be tempted beyond our strength,

and wherever he lets evil befall, he provides for a good to come forth from it, and he provides us a way through, a way out. And so we're looking to get, we ought to be looking to God as our provider and as our governor and the suicide looks away. Now mind you, a lot of people who commit suicide don't believe, right, or don't hope or don't love and it's much more difficult for them to see sense in their existence and to see God at the crown of it or at the heart of it. So in a certain sense, you can understand

better for the reasons for which, but nevertheless, God made us for glory, not for despair or not for self-hatred. So I hope this helps a little bit to appreciate the Church's teaching and the Church's practice. It's not just like you got in a car accident and you're being given a reckless driving ticket The point is to clarify for you and to clarify for the community. What's at stake? Okay? That this is a grave sin and that the different practices that the church used to employ our way by which of underlining that are Highlighting that so it's not gratuitous right, it's Really? Silubrious to use a wild word. It's for your health.

It's for your healing and growth. So the idea is to pronounce on sin as a clarification for those who live and to encourage each of us to play our part within the family, within the polity, within the church and ultimately for our God with a kind of certainty and confidence that he is enough and more than enough and that whatever happens it will not break us because he will not permit it to break us. So we think here and we pray here with Saint John Vianney in a spirit of genuine faith, trust, hope, love, you know that that God will provide for those for whom he has promised to provide in the way in which he sees fit to provide. We commend them to the mercy of God and we

Commend ourselves ultimately to the mercy of God because we know that we're not capable of anything Save he give us the grace every good and perfect gift comes down to us from the father of lights lights So it's somewhat of a sobering teaching. It's a sensitive issue It's a painful issue, but I think it can be a helpful issue to understand that the church is an arbitrary right that the church isn't silly in these matters that she's wise and that she loves us so this is pines with Aquinas I'll skip the back end things because they can seem a little silly by comparison to a serious issue but know of my prayers for you please pray for me and I'll look forward to chatting with you at the next

opportunity here on pines with Aquinas