Pints With Aquinas - The Healing Christ Wants For You w/ Sr. Miriam James Heidland

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

In this episode, I talk with Sr. Miriam James Heidland, a Catholic sister and public speaker, about wounds, healing, and Christ’s will for our hearts in the midst of trauma. We also discuss: - Trauma and how it is stored in the body. - How our wounds affect us today. - How Christ wants us to be healed. - How we can be healed by trusting in Christ and coming to know ourselves through His eyes   Sign up for my free course on St. Augustine's "Confessions"!   SPONSORS Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/ Homeschool Connections: https://homeschoolconnections.com/matt/   GIVING Patreon or Directly: https://pintswithaquinas.com/support/  This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer co-producer of the show.   LINKS Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/   SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd Gab: https://gab.com/mattfradd Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/pintswithaquinas   MY BOOKS Get my NEW book "How To Be Happy: Saint Thomas' Secret To A Good Life," out now! Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx   CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

G'day Sister Miriam James, how are you? Hi friend, how are you? I'm fantastic, it's lovely to have you. It's delightful to be here in the law offices, we're not really sure who, right? Yes, yes, yes. So for those at home, it says law offices on my door. I need to get that changed, but in the meantime, law offices it is. It's such a great space though.

It's like a rich, I mean I'm looking at your ceiling even. I may have said this before, but that ceiling predates the First World War. I mean, okay, those ceiling tiles predate the, yeah. So I got them in. I wanted this room to be very comfortable and not feel kind of sterile. You know, sterile's probably not the right word. Well, that is.

You go to a hospital and it's very... Sterile. Sterile. Yeah, sterile. Is that the same word? Yeah, same word. Good. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes you go to a studio and it's very... Sterile. Sterile. Sterile. Is that the same word? Yeah, same word. Good. Sometimes you go to a studio and it looks really nice on this section, but just past the table, it's like cement. So I wanted this to be like a place where you could sit down and chat.

Yeah. And it does. It feels like that. You've done a fine job. Yeah. Thank you. So why are you in Steubenville? I don't even know.

Oh, really? You don't? I don't. I'm here to like hang out with you. Surprise. I'm here with your family. I'm here to host a Steubenville conference Surprise. I'm here with your family. I'm here to host a student bill conference. Okay.

What one? Main campus three. Yeah. The youth conference. Oh, I see. And that's what you're here early. Yes.

So the host in the band comes in earlier and anybody else wants to. So that's why I'm in. This was the only time all weekend that we could. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thanks for doing it. Yeah.

You're doing a lot of conferences this summer. Well, you know, COVID kind of changed everything. And large conferences are still not really happening. But I think Steubenville is like one of the bigger ones. Yeah, I think it was like 1,500 people last weekend. Were there?

Well, I think. Maybe. Not committing to that number, but I think it was. Father Schmitz and other people were there. Well, I think anything more than 500 right now is still. I mean, you're seeing it grow. Like I've been right now is still, I mean, you're seeing it grow. Like I've been watching the Euro Cup. I mean, you're seeing like sold out stadiums again.

And just like I was watching it the other day and just the sound of the crowd was just electric. And I just- Missed that. Man, don't we miss that? Yeah. I don't think we ever thought, I'm sure you've had this conversation

with your guests before that we would ever see a day where that would be something like, wow, look at that. I saw masks in the discount aisle the other day and i went yes things are getting back to normal this is exciting yeah i know now my understanding of the euro cup is they play it in different countries it's not like one country like usual is that right and so some people have different some countries have different

covid laws than others yes and so some are very spread out and others are packed yeah that's true yeah it took me a while to kind of figure that out. Yeah, some countries where, yeah, it depends on kind of what their particular guidelines and laws are. And then a couple of the commentators the other day were talking about how one of the parts of the tournament right now is in Budapest, but fans went to Bucharest instead. So they got up and they're like,

No, where's that? Where's Bucharest? It's Romania, I think, isn't it? Okay. Budapest is like, No idea. No idea. Some country. Somebody help us call a friend. No, just kidding. where's Bucharest Romania I think isn't it Budapest is like no idea no idea some country

somebody help us call a friend no but they got off the plane and they're like what that is hilarious I love it I love that you love soccer

I love it do you love all sports I love sports I love that the Olympics are this summer I love excellence I had no idea the Olympics were this summer

difference yes we didn't know that okay so they were supposed to be last year and something happened last year to planet Earth. Do you know what happened last year? It was awful. I did know that. Yeah. Like I lived in a bunker. And so they canceled the Tokyo Olympics. But this year, we're holding them again. But I was talking to somebody the other day and we're thinking about how like one year makes a difference. So like you train your whole life. Could you mention

training your entire life for a few moments every four years and then a year passes by and then it's like i know you got to stay on top of your game that year or you age out or like you're like i can't do this another year it's just i mean the human person is fascinating i think we're so complex and so nuanced and just why we do what we do and you just think of you know why we love the olymp just why we do what we do. And you just think of, you know, why we love the Olympics, why we love sports. Like, why do we love that? I just, I find that fascinating. So, yeah.

Yeah. I've never really been big into sports on my own. Like if, you know, you put me in a room and I was, there was whatever sport on, I don't think I'd be terribly into it, but I love the communal aspect of sports. So if there was a soccer game on tomorrow at four in the morning and you're like,

Matt, we got to go down to the pub. I don't know why you didn't invite me to a pub. We got to go watch this thing. I would be pumped about that. I love the idea of getting together with people to shout at a television. But sports, I'm not against it. I just don't. It doesn't really grip me.

Yeah. But one of the reasons why it's so gripping is because of that. Whether you are playing on a team of people and you're working together for something beyond yourself right or you're a state you're in the you're in the stadium and you're a fan and you're pulling you're all together and you're strangers but you're all united for a common goal it's such the echo of eternity in our life and there's like a theology to that which i find fascinating it's like that's why we're just gripped by that whether no matter what our belief in life we're just gripped by coming together for something beyond ourself and overcoming difficulty to triumph. We love it. Yeah. I remember when... Have you seen Aussie Rules Football before? Is it rugby? No, it's different. It kind of evolved from Gaelic

football in Ireland, which is something different altogether. Yes, I bet. But Aussie Rules Football is this fascinating, fast-paced game that's really even kind of grown in popularity all over the world, I'd say, in the last 10 years. Really? You'll have to look it up. You'll have to YouTube it. It's very special. And I remember when the Adelaide Crows, which was my team,

well, from my state, when they won, I remember me and my mate Jake were watching, and we were probably about 15, and I just felt caught up in something bigger than myself in a way that I hadn't really experienced up until then. So I guess in one sense you could say that's kind of sad. But you could also be sort of say, well, this is a hint of something. So this is good maybe.

Oh, yes, friend. Yeah. And I love those often unguarded moments of our hearts where we just get swept away by beauty. Yeah. People were driving down the street, beeping the horn. Everyone was friendly to each other. Like what is that yeah that common human experience of of coming together for something good and a triumph over over you know struggle or darkness or suffering or you know and you you did

it we did it it's like everybody's like oh we did that like when the whole city you know celebrates it's like we all did it and yeah and you did you know that's nice now you know what's funny as much as i love you and we talk and text all the time i don't really know a lot of your story does that sound hard to believe okay yeah well i i don't know i know i mean i know you played volleyball in college i don't know anything else so tell us about that since we're talking about sports volleyball or snooker what was it almost the same yeah volleyball so that one of the reasons why I love it, sports were my first love.

And I played baseball as a little girl, like t-ball. Like, you know, the helmet's too big and you're up there with like a bat. And then I started playing, you know, from t-ball, you play softball. And then when I was in middle school, I chose volleyball. So I started playing that instead. So I love, I mean, I just love sports.

I've loved them since I was a little girl. My parents were always active. My mom played on an adult softball league when I was a little girl. And she's out there at 40 years old, like, you know, just love sports. I've loved them since I was a little girl. My parents were always active. My mom played on an adult softball league when I was a little girl. And she's out there at 40 years old, like, you know, just kicking butt. So, I mean, my parents, they're just, they were great people. My dad, especially, passed away 20 years ago. But, yeah, they're just so, I love music.

I love dance, ballet, all that. I just loved it. So, when you say you were in college, like, was there, like, were you really good? I mean, you must be good if you're playing college volleyball. Yeah, I mean you you do it or like reach a certain level of I and my team I wasn't the best but I was just a very average college volleyball player and so you talk about like you know kind of a big fish in a small pond so you can be like I came from a small town so you know you're talking about you could be like all all league or all state but then when you get up the food chain and then where I played in Nevada, it was very mid-level volleyball. So then you're talking about the upper echelons of like Long Beach State or now like Penn State or UCLA or Stanford.

I mean, then you're talking like the best of the best, you know. And so, yeah, one of the reasons I got recruited is because I'm left-handed. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's very helpful to be left-handed mostly in sports. So that's why I got recruited. I love volleyball. I'm such a spaz. Yeah, do you like it?

I just like jump around. Sometimes I get it and I feel like a hero, but I'm not really good at all. Well, we all do. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. So, okay, before we move on, because I want to talk about your vocation story and have you share a bit about that.

Sure. Can we back up and sort of share a little bit about your childhood and how we got to you being in that lovely habit? Yeah. Well, I think there's several different versions of the story, aren't there? Isn't there always? And there's a story that is very common to all of us where I grew up Catholic. My mom and dad got married in the 60s,

and I have an older brother who's adopted, and so we're both adopted. So he's adopted from a different family. Two of you in the family? Two of us, yeah. And so my mom and dad wanted to have many children, but for whatever reason, they just couldn't. So they waited a long time, and they adopted my brother first, and then five and a half years later, they adopted me.

As a baby? Mm-hmm. We were both infants. And, yeah, we grew up Catholic, went to Mass every Sunday. You know, my parents, you know, went to PTA, and we went camping on the weekends, and we, you know, went to Mass every Sunday. My mom made us go to Mass every Sunday, you know, like much to the chagrin of course of kids. And, um, yeah. And I just grew up like a normal middle-class American kid. You know,

you have the American dream where you, you know, grow up and you get good grades and you go to college and you get a good job and you get married and that's what you do. And, and so that was, that was my life. Um, that was my life on the surface. And then underneath it, there were many layers. So part of that layer is that actually my biological parents were in high school. And so... Oh, at the time. Yes, my biological parents were 17 years old. They were in high school, like juniors and seniors in high school.

I see, yeah. And obviously not married. And so I was what you would call an unplanned pregnancy, right? And so I've never seen them. So in call an unplanned pregnancy. Right. And so, um, I don't, I've never seen them. So in the state of Texas in the seventies, all adoptions were closed. So I don't, I've never seen them. I have, which is an interesting thing to ponder in your life. I just have a piece of paper that tells me what their physical characteristics look like. And that's all. So it's like, do you have their names? Oh, I don't know their names. Yeah. So I don't know what they look like I don't know and it's such an interesting

part of your story I talk to so many adoptees and adopt people that have adopted children there's such a great there's so much there and there's so much

I don't know about myself it's just a fascinating you talk about the human person being a mystery and then to myself so when you go to the doctor like do you have a history of right

I don't know yeah I might I don't know and then the I do believe at some point I don't know this for a fact but just from so much know um and then the i i do believe at some point i don't know this for a fact but just from so much work in my own interior life i really believe at some point my mother thought of aborting me so there's a massive not only attachment wound from a mother

who can't fully attach to a child she's about to give up for adoption because just psychologically the pain is too great so as a child you intuit your mother's emotional atmosphere you intuit her cortisol her adrenaline levels. And so you talk about attachment theory and the disruption of attachment, which is taking place there. And then I just had a distinct feeling that happened. So there's this threat of really annihilation. And then when I was born, I wasn't ready to be adopted.

My feet were not. They were born backwards. And so the adoption agency put me in a foster home for three months okay and so then my parents adopted me around christmas time that year and so um my mom put me into the christmas tree that year that was that was the gift of the family and but for me that was mother number three yeah so you can understand like so that helped me understand so much of my own story of like why do i do that or like why do i have certain fears do I have an epic fear of abandonment? Like, what is that that goes so far beyond like an intellectual capability of like, I'm 44 years old. Why do those certain things really still

hurt my heart even after all these years, you know? And it's because it's genetic or it's like imprinted in ourselves. Like you talk about attachment theory and how trauma is held in the body. It's stored in the body. And so it's been such a tremendously beautiful journey of understanding the heart of just the restoration of the human soul. And so you talk about like the foundations of life and then, you know, growing up and then, you know, there's another story being sexually abused, right? And then starting drinking at 12 years old and then being very promiscuous and a lot of sexual trauma and like, and a lot of self-hatred. And I just see, I've been on a very massive

journey. So I've been in my community 23 years. And like 16 years ago, I just kind of melted down interiorly. I don't think a lot of people would have known it, but I just hit bottom and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And it was like 16 years ago was the first time in my life that I thought maybe what happened to me as a little girl was having a profound effect on what was my day-to-day life. And I didn't know that, you know. Thank you for sharing that. How old were you when you discovered you were adopted? And what was that like? Yeah, I was about seven. And I, and people ask me all the time, like, how should you tell your kids they're adopted? You know, and there's so much I can say about

adoption, but I, you know, there's, I've heard so many beautiful stories and I think, I think you should tell children as soon as age appropriate as that can possibly be. And adoptive children just, they hold a deep wound of abandonment of rejection and the adoptive parents can't fix that. They can be a steadfast presence of, I love you unconditionally. I'm not going anywhere. I love you. But it really takes the journey of the adopted child to really go with the Lord and to some just interior deep places of experiencing the Lord there in communion because there is a deep wound there. And it usually comes out against the adoptive mother

because the pain is with the biological mother. Is that right? Right. But I was seven years old, and I'm actually very shy, very introverted. And so when I think about myself at that age of what happened, I must've been very curious, but I remember looking through our family album and I remember there were no pictures of my mom pregnant ever. And I was just like, Hmm, that's interesting. And I was sitting in the back seat of the car. I wrote about this in my book. I was sitting in the back seat of the car one day and I just, my dad was driving. My mom

was in the passenger seat and I was like um mom like how come there's no pictures of you pregnant like ever and the front seat got really quiet and um my mom looked at my dad then she turned and she looked at me and she said um she said honey your dad and I wanted to have children very much and for some reason we just couldn't have children and your mom and dad were very young and they wanted you to have the best life possible so they gave it for adoption we got to adopt you you know and so i'm just gonna stop right there so like that's a that's a true story okay for all the nuances of it that is a true story that's a true story that you tell to an intellect but your heart is hearing something yes like the story of the theology of the heart like we all of us have a theology of

the head the theology of the heart is tells and you're like what like what you know like how do you even you can't even comprehend that at that age and then um and then my mom said this and I've talked about it many times and I wrote about it so I can share this with you because I now I know why she said it but then she said you want to be careful who you tell that to because we don't want people to look at you differently and that was the day Matt in the backseat of my parents' car that I started to keep secrets. Because for me, what I heard in my little girl heart was, well, there's something wrong with me.

Like if I can't tell something because people might look at me differently, that means by default there's something wrong with me. And that was the day I started keeping secrets. And I kept a lot of secrets for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is very interesting. I think sometimes we under, we downplay the wounds that we receive because objectively, you know, they may not sound traumatic.

But as you say, there's what happened factually and how it was interpreted. Oh, gosh, yes. Yeah. And don't you find that true in your own story? Yes, yes. And that's why when people, when we tell our story to people and they receive us, like you're receiving me now, which is so healing for my heart. Um, is that, is this the difference between this versus, well, you shouldn't feel like that. Like, and we do that because we can't

handle our own emotions. And it's like, we do that because we're uncomfortable, but there's no should of feeling. If we're feeling, it might not be rational, what we're feeling. It might not match the situation, but it's like, it's a revelation of our heart. Our emotions are always telling us something. They're giving us clues to our heart.

And so sometimes, you know, what happens is people say like in our healing journey, which we're always on a healing journey because love never ends. We say like, why do I keep, why does this keep bothering me? Like, I'm an adult, like what's wrong wrong with me and there's nothing wrong with you your heart has been broken you know and jesus loves us so much he's just going to come like you know the master painter and he's going to come and he's going to tend to every part of our heart

we you know and so yeah it's those are such deep tender places that we all hold like you know every single one of us holds those places that look different, but they're all similar. All of us have places where we feel rejected or abandoned or like, does anybody see me or I'm all alone and I have to do this by myself. And like, will anyone come for me? If you don't go down the healing journey, what are the two alternatives? I mean, there might be multiple alternatives,

but what are the two more likely things that will begin to happen? I imagine one is posturing. Yes and yes well i would say it's either excess or defect okay it's gonna so so the only way like the only way to resurrection is through it's through the cross it's the paschal man i'm not saying this because i'm a nun i'm saying this because i've wrestled with deep suffering in my life and for so many years i've heard stories from so many people and it's like we try to go over around or under like the only way is the only way is through there is no other way and so that's the cruciform middle way so anything else we're going to either do excess or defect so it's either going to act out of our wounds like in a way that's excessive of like

total self-destruction or we're going to repress everything and we're going to pretend we're fine and our hearts are just dying inside and so and we all have variations of those and i mean myself like all of us we have all that in our heart but it's like the only way is vulnerability and dependence like we're you know dr bob shoot says i will let the lord love me where i'm most vulnerable and most dependent and for most of us we're like no like peter like not there lord absolutely absolutely and that's an honest i'm reading'm reading, you read Lord of the Rings? Oh, gosh, yes. I'm reading this right now with my friend of mine.

Fellowship, you know, June, July, August. And right now they're going through the mines of Moria. Okay, yes. But that reminded me, right? Because they were trying to go up the hill and the snowstorm came down. Yes. And they could also go backwards. Yes.

But, you know, Sauron, Sauron rather has turned evil and all that or has revealed his evil. So they have to go through it. That just reminded me of that. Yeah. Yeah. There is no other way. There is no other way. Because that's the only way to life, you know.

And once you start doing that, going down the healing journey, which I've begun, glory to Jesus Christ. You see that. You begin to see the posturing, the excesses and the defects in your own life, but you see it so plainly in other people too. And it ought to lead you to have just great compassion and love for those persons, right? Gentleness. I think so because I just, I really believe like, I mean, in the journey that all of us have been entrusted people,

like all of us have been given people that we care for, that we love. And I really believe that we'll only be able to walk with them and to accompany them to the extent that we're willing to go within our own soul ourselves. Because other than that, it's going to be, I'm going to pontificate to you how you should live, or it's going to be theoretical. Out of my access.

Or it's going to be like, I'm going to be here, but you need help. But I'm, you know, and Jesusesus never he never approaches us like that he's so kind i'm thinking of him with a woman caught in adultery down on the floor in the dirt that reminds me of a light from uh i'm gonna keep doing this by the way parks and recreation when one of them's like uh we have to sleep on the floor when When you're outside, it's called the ground. Anyway, so when he goes down on the ground, he looks at her in the eye and he gets down into the dirt with her. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I don't want to get you.

You talked about like sharing, hiding stuff, right, keeping secrets. And I don't want you to share more than you want to share, obviously. But would you mind maybe sharing some of that? Yeah. Well, one of the big secrets was, well, the adoption, but also being sexually abused was a secret. Was that prior to you knowing you were adopted? No, it was after I was 11.

I was 11 years old. And that was a secret that I couldn't even admit to myself for years. And there's a great saying in 12-step programs that we're only as sick as our secrets. We're only as sick as our secrets, you know, only as sick as, as they are. And so, and I think, you know, I was about a month ago, I had a distinct really privilege of sitting in online on a masterclass from these trauma therapists from all over the world, like some of the best, like Bessel van Rekolk and Peter Levine. And, um, it just so, it was so great. And one of the therapists was saying that, um, all of us have like, say, say for example, like a primary trauma, okay. Whether

it's sexual abuse, whether it's neglect, whether it's even type A traumas of, you know, mom and dad just aren't around enough, like, so all of us have, but they said this, and I thought it was really interesting. I've been praying about it ever since they said, we all we have primary traumas. But then they said, we have all have secondary traumas, which are almost as painful as the first and the secondary trauma is that we had nobody safe to tell that to and to be with us in it what so what distinct what's the distinction so the first is like the trauma like the sexual abuse say the initial trauma of like the violation and then something happens after that initial well the secondary this the secondary trauma is that after this happens i have nowhere to go okay so i have no i have nowhere safe to take this story to. I have nobody to be with me here.

And then you have to go on with life. And you show up to the dinner table. That's right. And you just, I mean, it's... It's like the world doesn't stop while you can figure this out. It's like school needs to happen and groceries need to be... And you survive. You survive and you just bury everything or you start to act out in certain different ways.

But like that, that stunning reality, I think of, of when we think of ourselves as children, you know, and just like we all have certain chapters of our story or certain moments where. Have you ever like, I don't know if you've ever thought about this, Matt, like yourself as a little boy and you're like, how did he carry that? like how did he carry that like he's such he's so little and and like nobody bent down to him and just put their hands on his little face and said this is so hard i'm so sorry this happened to you you know and i think it's that like that just lack of of that kindness there that compassion that witnessing of sorrow of the lack of communion there it's just so damaging and then we form beliefs out of that like Like I'm all alone. I have to take care of myself. I'm never going to trust anybody.

Love is not good. God is not good. Authority. I mean, it's like. I can't trust other people to meet my needs. Exactly. Yes. Yes.

And it's really allowing the Holy Spirit to bring these places to our hearts when we see them trigger like in our day-to-day life of, you know, like the best question we can ask ourselves in the Holy Spirit is, Holy Spirit, why am I doing this? Like spirit why am i doing this like why am i doing this on the plane today i was just praying about that very thing i was crying on the airplane eating my goldfish i'm like in my mask i was like eating goldfish yeah it was like stuffing them in my mouth you know and i'm like crying i'm like and this memory of myself as a high school like 14 year old girl that this boy that i like so much did not like me and And it was just the way he rejected me. I hate him for you.

It was like so tender. And, and that, I just saw that little girl inside. It was like 14 or 15. And so often the, that makes us cringe. Right.

But I just sat next to her and I was like, I'm like, I'm sorry that happened to you. Yeah. I'm sorry. Like the lies you believed about yourself because you were ugly or because you you're repulsive or like you it's just like it was such a tender moment of like of that really that truth of like holy spirit what's happening right now like what what's happening to my heart like where do you want to bring me to communion jesus where are you because

you're here in this memory like and that might sound silly to people but like those things that happened to us when we're younger they have profound effects upon our day-to-day life, you know. And what's silly or unfortunate is not noticing those movements of the heart and acting in a way that we don't understand because we haven't processed them, right? Yes. Like the Holy Spirit has given you this ability to perceive what's happening and bring it to the Lord. But I wonder how many times maybe for the majority of my life, things are happening. And I just turn on Netflix, grab a beer, make fun of somebody, be judgmental and just try to shut it all down. And I can't, I don't go through it, you know? Yeah. Well, and I think that's what we learn, isn't it? Along the way of like, we learn how to avoid. And then what we're gloriously

learning now on this journey is, is, is how to turn our hearts to the Lord really you know like how do you and you know somebody was texting me you know earlier today and they're like you know I was never taught you know how to do this like no hardly anybody's taught how to do this like we learn as we like we we get to relearn no matter what our childhood was or we get to because the Lord loves us we get to relearn of like how to hold anger how do you hold rage how do you hold honesty like how do you and and this i really believe matt like this is the stuff of holiness this is this is the whole person like jesus he's not scandalized he's fully human is they were scandalized by him he's not you know and he teaches us how to be human and like his nakedness and his vulnerability

and his dependence on the father and he has no self-defense mechanisms and he's not like harsh and he's he's honest and he's true and it's like piercing and it i could you imagine living like that yeah i want to love like that i want to well you know i had father boniface hicks on the show recently and he pointed something out that i think began to answer some question i keep bringing up whenever we talk like this. And you've heard me say it with Christopher West and with others. I'm like, okay, so I get a little nervous though, when we're using this psychological language, because I'm afraid that maybe we're actually just sort of substituting some psychological term for Jesus. And we're really just kind of doing psychology and healing in a kind of natural sense. I know that's not true,

but I've heard the critique and I've been trying to answer it. And have you felt that or heard that before or is this just something I'm dealing with? No, I just spoke about that very thing recently, but continue, I'd love to hear what he said. So I was talking to Father Boniface about this and he said, and there's this kind of distinction

even at the Franciscan University of Steubenville, you've got your Thomists and your Phenomenologists, right? And it's like Thomism focuses a lot on teleology and there's the act for this end. Phenomenology is getting like, how do I experience this thing? You know, how do I experience this thing? And it's like, okay, so we can talk about grace and that's all true and good,

but I want to know what that means to me. And so it's almost like taking that sort of beautiful theological language and expressing what it's like. So what is it like when I repent of my sin and I experienced the grace of God and I find myself less afraid? I need language now to convey that. And I think that's what we're doing. That's what you're doing. Bob Schutz is doing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what we're trying to allow that to unfold in the soul. And I think the beautiful thing, I really believe that the Lord is so gracious and he heals us in so many different ways.

There's so many modes of healing, which somebody was asking me recently, like, well, if it's not really, if I don't, if I'm working with somebody who doesn't believe in Christ, like, you know, how can I bring them to healing? I'm like, well, it's all love is from God. Like there's no other source of love. There's no other source of communion. There's no other source of real healing. So it is directly or indirectly coming from the Lord, which is so beautiful. So it's through the understanding of like what brain science is showing us now. Like even in that trauma class, it was talking about how we know we have different like extrinsic and intrinsic memory, right? So extrinsic memory is like the autobiographical

memory it's their calling of dates and then intrinsic memory is memory is the emotional memory where we have emotions come to the surface and we're like what's happening that's what i'm learning to trust right yes yeah and then there's something called procedural memory which is like like what we're doing now like we know how drink, like for a while when we were little kids, that was a hard thing, you know, so, but like, like riding a bike, but they said this, they said our trauma responses, like how we survive childhood and our trauma responses of how we either initiate intimacy or push it away or attachment. They said, those are so deep in us. They actually just seek, they seep down to the part of the procedural memory, which is why when you have certain situations that trigger you now,

it will be your neurological pathway to go back to the way you survived. But it was so good because so often we shame ourselves and we say, what is that? Why am I keep doing that? It's because it seeped so down into the human brain that you have a neurological pathway that propels you to that way of survival, but where the lord is coming in these places where he gently brings this place like because the brain neurologically we know can heal itself to me like that's god like you can you can put it in it's just the the reality of healing of mental emotional physical spiritual sexual healing

it's all encompassed in christ who is a center who is the universe center of the universe and of history as John Paul II says to me that means that Christianity is not coping and it's not sin management and it's not addiction management, like if that's the case we are the most pitiful of all people as St. Paul says. You were saying you spoke at a conference

recently where you were addressing this whole psychological question, is that part of what you were saying? Yeah, that's part of what I was saying was that when we talk about the aspects of healing, of the dimensions of the human person of mental physical emotional spiritual healing that we're talking about the ways like what science is revealing but that's not outside of god like they go to they go together and i think my thing is that in some camps it's either either or it's like should i go to spiritual direction or counseling i'm like how about both like why not you? And so if we can take that and not water either down,

but if, if something is good, true and beautiful, Christ is there, you know, there's no other source of goodness, truth, and beauty. And so I think helping people to come in contact with that and taking what is good and assimilating what is good and understanding like, like even what science is showing about how trauma is stored in the body and how the body naturally raises trauma. Like the Lord has provided a place, like the body knows how to heal. That is the Lord in the incarnation bringing us to newness. Like to me, that's so beautiful. And it's not like I'm not getting out into the weird weeds that I'm talking about, but I'm talking about the solid

evidence of, to me, that's just so beautiful because I just see so many ways that God heals and it's just so lovely. Well, I have to say in my own kind of healing journey, praying with Dr. Bob every week, God bless him. You know, we'll be talking. Did you know I was doing that with him? I didn't know. I love him. Don't tell him I said that. I would never say that to his face. I think he knows that though. That was an office reference. Remember that? Where, you ever watch The Office? Only every now and then where michael says of pam he makes fun of her and then she leaves and he's like really she's a lovely person but i'd never say that to her face and also it's like why wouldn't you say that to her face yeah bob's a wonderful person but anyway

one of the things i've been learning to do as we pray is trust what's coming up in me emotionally again lord of the rings reference where they're beginning to feel there's some dark presence here that they can't logically pinpoint or have a logical explanation for. And I find that I naturally do that, right? I'm very kind of skeptical of, well, I don't want to bring this to the surface and let's go down a rabbit trail because maybe this isn't really the thing. Or maybe this wasn't a trauma, but I'm now just accidentally focusing on it. This is just like fear analytical part. But then there's just like, Holy Spirit, come. And it's almost like a letting go.

And then whatever kind of rises, I'm like this. I just throw it out, right? And just trust this like that. Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask, and if it's too personal to share, but like what has that been like for you to access like a new part of your heart that way?

Sister Miriam, it's been beautiful yeah it's been really lovely just um yeah just uh well i'll share this off air it's a little too personal but there's just been a few things that have happened where i've kind of found myself like this memory of something that happened when i was young that like I found where I was like a nuisance and just not welcomed and not loved. And just like, where is our Lord in that? And what's he saying to me? Right. And it was almost like part of my head was like, oh, okay.

So I guess I have to imagine Jesus like hugging me and telling me I'm beautiful or something. But then what happened was something completely unexpected happened in this prayer experience. Now the Lord was doing something completely different. I'll tell you about it after because it just like blew me away. I'm just like weeping. Of course. Just praising the Lord. Yes.

But one thing it does is it almost like it solidifies certain things in me, right? So when people are like, what's it like being in Steubenville? And I'm like, the Lord has placed me in this part of the battlefield to tear down strongholds and proclaim the gospel to save souls. And I know that's true. And I can speak with a confidence about it that maybe a year ago would have sounded like it was boasting or I wouldn't have felt the solidness under it. But I believe it to be true because of my encounters with our Lord and these sort of things. Oh, that makes so much sense.

I don't know if that made any sense. It makes so much sense. Does it? Yeah. And I love that. I think it's true and beautiful. I can feel the weight of it as you share that. Yeah.

Yeah, like the rooted and grounded, like the weight of it where you speak the truth. Yeah. And there's also, as I speak the truth, there's a reaffirmation and a claiming of what i know is true so it's not just a i have to i have to just assume that this will always be there there's a there's a client it's sort of like i am your son yes you are my father yeah you love me and you like me yes even when i don't like me you like me and i thank you that you like me know, there's that claiming of the, you know. And I, and I have to say, I think hearing that story from you is people often ask,

when I have prayer experiences, how do I know it's the Lord? And what you just said, that cannot be faked. Like you, we can construct something in our mind of what we think the Lord would say, but when the Lord shows up and says something and the, the deep reaction that we have within ourselves and whatever it is, whether it's in sorrow or rage or, or, or tears or gladness, like you can't manufacture that with a lasting effect. Like, that's right. And so we know, like we test the fruit of it. Like, you know, very well when the Lord shows up because it's very, it's the profound, the profundity of it, even if it's in a small thing or like, you know. And, you know, you were mentioning that you had this sort of sense that your birth mother

contemplated abortion, right? And so I think one way, and you tell me because you know a lot more about this than me, but I think one way that you can be sure, or at least almost very confident that that was the case, is that as this comes to you and you process it, there's a healing of your heart. Oh, yes. Whereas if I was just spitballing,

I think maybe this happened. If there is a resolve there, there's not a lasting healing and a deepness that comes with it. Oh, definitely. No, that's true. It's not just thinking about it. It's an interior sense of really the Holy Spirit bringing from the depths of things

we can't dig out ourselves where the Holy Spirit brings it to the surface. And that's true. We know the visit of the Lord, whether it's sometimes God, it heals us instantaneously, but most of our areas where our hearts have been broken, the Lord just very tenderly heals us over time.

And there is a true restoration of the heart there. The true where the same pain is not present or it's lessened or we don't believe the things about ourself that we used to. Or that experience of me as a kid where I felt abandoned and alone. When I think of that now, I see what our blessed Lord said to me. And I'm just like, it's almost like Lectio Divina. Some of you have a profound experience of Lectio Divina, and you can never read that scripture verse the same way again because it's personal. It was almost like that memory has been forever changed

because of that experience. It was really beautiful. And you're like, how is that not? Why would you want to be skeptical of that? I know. You know, like I encountered the Lord. He spoke truth to me. I felt healed.

Like why is it that we want to, I don't know. I think it's because of our own self-protection. We're afraid. That's very vulnerable. And I think self-protection and the way that we kind of push things aside many times feels safer. Because then we can guard our heart, right? Because then if it doesn't work out or if God doesn't show up or if it really is true that I'm this awful person, then it won't hurt as much. We have such sophisticated ways of trying to protect our hearts you know but ultimately when we encounter

his love yeah you're like why why am i pushing that away so often you know i can't wait till we get to the point where we kind of help people who are watching how to pray we should do that towards we totally towards the end of this we certainly can yep um you said that when you were sexually abused at the age of 11, that you couldn't even admit that to yourself. Do you mind telling us like what that, what you told yourself and then how you began to find healing from that? Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question. I think that I really believe I've heard, I've heard people say that sexual abuse is probably one of the deepest sorrows a person

suffers because it's like the enemy climbs into the center of your goodness and shatters it, you know, shatters you mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, sexually. Um, Dan Allender, who's probably one of the most foremost trauma experts in the Christian world. He talks about the, at the heart of that many times is, and I've talked to so many, this was my own experience, but I've talked to so many abuse survivors as well, is that the ambivalence of what happens when you're violated sexually is because of the pleasure that arouses and then the hatred of your own body and the hatred of, so there's like, there's a saying in like neurobiology that neurons that fire together, wire together. Okay. So you're having these neurons in your brain fire together and there's

pleasure because that's what the way God made your body. Um, but then there's also, and there's hatred of, of that arousal. There's hatred of the person doing that, but there's also the attachment that you have because many times it's somebody that, you know, not always. So there's all kinds of conflicting things happening. That is like this toxic cocktail that many times turns into deep shame and self-hatred. And, and then the lie was like, well, if that happened to me, if there was arousal, that means I wanted it. And then many times the abuser, they're out of their brokenness. They'll say, well, it's like this. Those are such tender, yes, and such tender places of the soul

that for most people go unspoken because it's just too much. And I just want to say that the Christ is not embarrassed of any of that. It's like, so that's, that's where the enemy comes to. That's just where the enemy comes. He's just come so deeply. And,

and so for me, and then not having anybody to tell that to, and it was just like, yeah, I look at myself at like 11 year old girls or so, like my daughter. Yes. I mean,

could you imagine? Yeah. And it's like that in a sense of, of carrying that secret for so many years. And, um, yeah, I didn't tell any,

I did not tell another person really in detail until I was in my twenties really. And, and what I can freely honestly share with you today is taken years. I mean, over 16 years, a really deep work in my own life where I I don't hate I don't hate that little girl that's beautiful because I

thought you were gonna say I don't hate that little guy who did it to you I don't I don't hate him either lovely but how great is it that I thought you were going there and you said something so surprising you said you don't hate that little girl no what a surprising thing because i did for a long time ah bless you yeah so you know i said something earlier which i'd love you to talk about more it's this idea that we downplay our wounds or we'll say well no i mean what i went through it's not like that it's not like and we talk about why we should be really careful to dismiss those wounds we've received and how we do it. Yeah. I think all of us minimize.

We minimize our wounds in many ways. And a lot of that's self-protection because they're painful or we don't want to look at them. And I find one of the most common things, you know, we say that, okay, so it was in the past. You know, it happened to be a long time ago, which is fine unless the past is being lived out in the present which is mostly 99 of the time it is so we're actually living out we're not living out we're not living in the present moment if you're what's happening to me here we're chronological adults we're having all kinds of things from the past coming interrupt our you know interior life and our psychological kind of understanding of who we are and just all the things. And so I think one of the

most common self-defense mechanisms that I hear, especially when we talk about family of origin trauma, is people will often say, well, my parents did the best they could. And what we want to say to that is they did. They did the best they could. And they also, because they're people, had some really deep areas of woundedness too. That was something I had to get over when I started kind of going to therapy and praying with people because I didn't want to become the stereotypical, what was your relationship with your father like? That was my American accent. I'm sorry.

I won't do that again. Everything going good over there? Yeah. You know what I mean? I was just so afraid of that. So I think that's so important to dispel right up front, right? This isn't about blaming and hating and judging and condemning. And we can honor, we can honor your mother and father and amen, and honor them for the God has

given you to them and them to you in good times and in bad. And that is a gift that God has given. And we can honor them for who they are. And we can also honor the truth of what happened. And that's okay it's not a betrayal and sometimes you know and every family system has ways of kind of circling the wagons of like oh we're the smiths we don't do that or we don't you know talk about what happened on the grandfather's side or we don't the we don't do this and so it can be like a huge betrayal to even many times for some people just to admit that family wasn't perfect it's it's like feels like such a betrayal and and we won't be able to really open our hearts into the deep levels of,

of the truth that the Lord wants to bring us to if we, if we can't admit just the truth of the brokenness of the human person. And I think for me, what I've learned about my mama, you know, I've learned more about my dad since he passed away, but journey with my mom for like the last 20 years is I've learned that the best thing I learned about my mom is my mom's a person. She's a person. And she was a little girl once and she has stories too. And she has ways of seeing the world and she's got her own heart where heart's been broken. And I'm like, I look at her sometimes. I'm like, oh, she's a person and she's lovely. Right. right and and it's okay for me to like receive her as my mother but also receive her as a person and just

ask the lord to bring like her to freedom and my dad you know even as he's deceased and so it's like i think that because we can see ourselves like that way too of like um i'm a person and i have like beauty and sorrow in my life and and the lord loves it. And I don't have to be something else. You know, so. No, that's so powerful because we often look at our parents like they existed for all eternity. Yeah. And they're like Adam and Eve. Yeah.

They should be perfect. And then we are the recipients of whatever brokenness they handed down to us. But, yeah, like they were a little girl. Yeah. He was a little boy. And this happened to him. And maybe he doesn't even know. Oh, I can guarantee you they probably don't. Of course. Of girl. Yeah. He was a little boy. And this happened to him. And maybe he doesn't even know. Oh, I can guarantee you they probably don't.

Of course. Of course. Yeah. Wow, what a beautiful thing to say. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, your mom is a person. What a lovely thing.

With her own history, is what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, with her own story. With her own story. Even if she hasn't kind of thought it through. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us how you... I'm sorry to get into this this is too dark but i know you've

processed a lot of this i just think it'll be such a blessing to people about the the alcoholism i mean i remember the first time you said you were an alcoholic by the age of 12 i started drinking at 12 well okay me too by the way i was 12 yeah best friend's mom go over to their house okay yeah the mother would buy us porn i don't know if i told you this. 12 years old. And she'd buy us liquor. So heart-wrenching. So 12, like throughout most, a lot of my teenage years, I spent a lot of the time at this person's house

and we would get drunk. We'd look at porn. We'd have to go rent VHS tapes. That's how old this was. But like, that's a part of my story, you know? Yeah. But so for you, did you start drinking in response to the abuse?

Yeah, I know that now about myself but i didn't know that at the time i thought oh this is what everybody else is doing oh i see yeah so this was friends were doing it as well yeah oh yeah yeah yeah so at the first at the initial yeah friends were doing it as well and then you just start drinking from there and um oh gosh yeah i whoo yeah i mean i and i i talk about denial like one of the reasons why it kept me in denial for so long was like i thought well i've never, you know, I never got a DUI. I don't live under a bridge. I'm not drinking, like, out of a paper bag, you know.

But, yeah, there's different kinds of alcoholism, you know, where, you know, sometimes some people drink daily. Some people have several drinks daily. But some people, when they start drinking, they can't stop. And there's all different kinds, you know, like, of knowing kind of, like, what is that trigger in you? What is alcohol trigger in you? And so, for me, it was a way to escape. Like it was a way because I, even though I couldn't admit in a sense to myself what happened, I never forgot it. Like I was,

I'm, I'm not somebody, some people have repressed memories of abuse and it comes out later. I always remembered and I couldn't not remember. And it just, the, the devastation that that wrought on my heart of just feeling so ugly and just so, so much self-hatred and just so much that when I would drink, that'd be the only time I didn't experience that, you know? And so, which of course leads it to all sorts of like lost and brokenness and like all kinds of really dark situations that I got myself into. And it's like, and then you realize like you, and you, you come to a point one day when you say to yourself, you know, like I promised myself I was going to stop and I can't.

And that's when it's like, oh, this isn't just. How old were you when you promised yourself you would stop? And why did you make that promise? Because of just the massive amount of brokenness I was getting myself into after drinking too much. How old were you? I was in college at the time. Well, I was in high school and college at the time. Yeah.

And so. Was it because of an explicit Christian faith or just because of the consequences of your drinking that you made that promise? Well, I mean, I didn't really, honestly, I didn't realize how sinful that, I mean, I didn't really like the objective. I get that it was like a sin, but I didn't really realize the ramifications of what that does to a human soul. But it was me, my behavior was so shameful and it was so so it was so abhorrent that i would wake up in the morning and i just i mean there were days i couldn't remember what happened but there are clear days that i remembered exactly what i did and it was just so it was so just self-destructive and i would just hate myself all the more like all of us in our addictions whether whatever it is we

well done that where we like we grab onto it and then the isolation and then we for a moment we either you know reinforce ourselves of hatred or we self-medicate and we come to and then we're like okay i'm not going to do this anymore and and it was the yeah it was it was that cycle playing out over and over and over again you know with alcohol and then lust there's all kind of all kinds of brokenness that i was like i can't i can't um i can't stop this where were your parents aware of this kind of behavior at the time? And how did they? No, they had no idea. I mean, they knew every now and then, but they had no idea.

It was a different world back then, wasn't it? I mean, you and I are kind of the same age. I just, you know, my parents would let me sleep over whoever's house I wanted to. Yeah, now it's like. I need an FBI background check. Some of my friends have kids and like, we just don't do sleepovers and i'm like you hate to do that yeah but you're like or it's only like trusted friends that have the same technology policies we have or that we we know they're i mean yeah oh gosh that'd be so hard yeah but i know right isn't that just yeah and we think about

even like a generation before us too like what their life was like yeah it's like yeah so and so yeah knowing now what i know about addiction and recovery for me, that was a way of, that was a way of trying to escape the original pain. And so we can talk about like managing an addiction up here. And most of us are trying to manage whatever it is we're managing, but it's not until we get to the root of why was what's driving the behavior. And that's, that's, I think it was where we, we kind of go wrong. We just get, we get so hyper-focused on this up here, you know, and you know, father Mark tubes talks about, I think, is where we kind of go wrong. We get so hyper-focused on this up here.

Father Mark Tubbs talks about pulling the apples off the tree, right? And amen to it. You go to confession, you pull those apples off the tree. But if you don't uproot the tree, they're going to grow back. And it's being driven by pain. So there's a really great medical doctor, and he's got a lot of talks on YouTube. He's notian by any means but it's very interesting because he says you know for a long time in his medical practice he would

ask you know why the addiction why the addiction but he said now what he knows he says he doesn't ask why the addiction he asks why the pain ah that's very good why the pain yeah because the pain is the pain is what's driving our addiction fuel. Yeah, it's fueling the self-medicating kind of. When did you become a Christian? Were you always a Christian? Or when did it take on kind of meaning for you? It took on meaning for me through the intervention of a man who really changed my whole destiny, and that was a Catholic priest. Glory to Jesus Christ.

I don't know this story. Yeah. Tell me. And that's why I'm here. I mean, that's why I'm here today. How lovely to have an opposite story of something we often hear. Very sadly, I don't mean to be flippant about it, but, I mean, we do hear these terrible stories of abuse that ruin people's lives.

Yes. And here was this lovely man who. Oh, yes. I just had Dr. Jerry Crete on the show, who you'd love if you've never met him. Solid Catholic guy. He was really blessed by a Catholic priest that really turned his life around as well. He was just on last week. Oh, yes.

So what happened with you? Yeah. My mother, my God bless my mother, who just, you know, by the time I was in college, I'm like, I'm not going to Mass every Sunday. I'm like, I'm not, you know, I'm playing sports. I'm not going to do this. And my mother just wouldn't, was not having any of it. And so she'd met this, she and my dad met this priest at this Marian conference and he was going to be in town in Portland, Oregon area. And

my mom was like, we want you to meet him. I'm like, this is stupid. I don't want to meet him. Like, this is dumb. I was 18. Like I was like a freshman in college. I'm like a spring break. I'm like, I don't want to be a stupid priest. So it was before 9-11, right? So you could go back to the gates, you know, before you could. And so we have a picture, actually, that we'll forever memorialize this day. But my mother, I came in from Nevada, and then she found Father. And he was like this 6'2", like, imposing, like, Indian priest from Goa, just, like, massive, you know? And so my mom grabbed me by the shoulders, and she, like,

shoved me in front of this priest, and she said this, like, Father, this is our daughter. Like, this is the one we've been telling you about. And what happened then is he looked at me and he looked down at me and then he looked away like this. It was just one of the most awkward first encounters I've ever had. He looked away like this. And then he looked at the ground, he looked to me and then he gave me like this big hug. And then he just became my friend after that. Okay. So I'll tell you what was happening there later but um he he'd been a priest a long time he was much older than me and that man just

spiritually mentored and loved me and fathered me and one of the things that impacted me so much about him was that he so loved Jesus Christ I had never I had never met anybody in my life who I was so in love with Christ that it was like palpable, like it emanated from him. He was not perfect. I mean, certainly he had his own story, but like just the love of Christ was like a fragrant aroma that would emanate from him. And there were many times I would look at him and I could see Christ looking at me. And he would tell me the truth whether I wanted to hear it or not.

He was attentive. He would check up on me. He would, you know, engage me in like, why are you going out with that guy? Did he move into your area? How did you? No, just through email. And he, my parents joined his discipleship group. And so he would hold retreats at our house when I'd be home. So, and he would pass through Reno every now and then. He lived in New Mexico. Okay. And he was, he was a member of our community. And it was that, and I remember being 21 years old, you know, after being mentored by him for several years, I was 21 years old.

And I looked at him and I just, you know, here I'm a full blown alcoholic, just massively promiscuous, just really broken. And I just remember, and there were so many things in my life that I could fake or that I could not want, but I couldn't deny that. I could not deny his love. Like that was, it was undeniable. And I remember looking at him one day saying, father, I don't know what you've got, but I want that. Yeah. Like whatever that is, I want that, you know? Yeah. And and he said you come and see and here i am it is when it's the reason why the priesthood is the deepest love of my life like i would spend the rest of my life working in healing ministry with priests because you will i

just if oh i love them so much and if the father is sick if the bridegroom is sick the church is going to be sick and how can we love our priests so they can give the gift of themselves in a life-giving way because that's what they want to do so yeah we do a lot of with the john paul ii healing center we do a lot of work with priest and it's so sacred it's it's it's the best ever yeah but that man just loved me and i believe in it i believe in the power of an authentic witness that you can't fake and i believe in the power of love because i'm sitting here because of it and then many years later my mom told me that she gave me away to Our Lady and she just fasted and prayed for me to become a nun.

Beautiful. Yeah, I'm not here because I'm awesome. I'm here because people love me. And I know that very well. You use the term massively promiscuous. How did you begin to take a turn? I mean, in part because of this man's love for you, but what did that look like?

Well, part of it was just, you know, I graduated from college and then right after college, Father invited me down to one of our missions in New Mexico. And so I'd just broken up with a boyfriend, and Father's like, you're a mess, so let's just come down here. And I'm not a missionary girl, which is really funny, because I would have never done it, but he was just so great. So we had our sisters.

We had a convent. The young men studying for the novicia were there. And I had never met young men who also were sold out for Christ i was like because i didn't go to like steubenville i didn't go like you know benedictine or something like that so the idea of guys around my age that were actually holy that were studying for the priest i was like what what is this you people speak of like it's almost like you know visiting a different planet and it was so beautiful because they were so normal and so fun and they're like big brother like you know brothers trying to take advantage of they were not yeah they were just living their life and that was such a powerful witness to me.

So I think it was like the removal from college. Like it was the removal of that kind of lifestyle where I was literally taken from there and immersed in an atmosphere of grace where things like that didn't happen there. And so, and it was like the silence, it was, and I had a distinct moment in my life where I heard Jesus Christ call me to religious life. So I- What happened? I was sitting in Father's office one day and we were talking, I was talking about, I think some guy wanted a date after I left the mission and God bless that Father.

I mean, God bless that man, you know? And he looked at me and he said, he was very smart because he never said anything about religious life because I would have been like, oh, no. But he looked at me and he was like, you know what? He said, maybe what you're looking for in all these men, maybe you'll find it in Jesus Christ. And that was like all, it was a very innocent, like, just like a softball kind of like, why don't you think about that? And God, yeah, it's just like, it's just stopping. I know, but God used that. And I tell you, Matt, the, I just had a distinct like arrow that pierced my soul in that moment

like it was like sitting across to his table from him and all of a sudden like this grace pierced my soul and my like it was like God finally pounded the puzzle piece like that was like missing and he put it in my heart I was like oh I can't explain it it was like this profound realization of like this is what I'm supposed to do with my life I'm like of course and all of a sudden it just made sense I'm like of course like were you. And all of a sudden it just made sense. I'm like, of course. Were you a daily communicant? No, I was barely going to mass on Sunday. Isn't that gorgeous?

That is what is gorgeous about it. I know. It's like, it is so crazy. I look at women discerning religious life now. They are leagues. Like it's, I can't believe the community let me in. Like it's just, it's like, it's so wonderfully beautiful because I was barely, I didn't know what a bravery was.

My mom was like, here, take this. I'm like, what is this? And she was like, just be quiet and like follow along. So I'm like, it's so wonderfully beautiful because I was barely, I didn't know what a bravery was. My mom was like, here, take this. I'm like, what is this? You know? And she was like, just be quiet and like follow along. So I'm like, okay. And so, and the Lord was so kind to me. Like he just was so kind and just made it very easy for me. Like, I love you so much.

I'm just going to, let me help you here, you know? So. And you are how old? I'm 44. No, no. At the time. So did you look at different orders how did this happen i didn't see and i i just was he part of s he was yeah he was a member of our

community and so i just had an interior knowledge as well like this was the community that god was calling me to and um i would have never survived i would have never survived doing like convent hopping like i just yeah you'd barely go to mass on sunday like i would have never i was like why wouldn't it what does that mean why wouldn't have you survived i don't i don't i wouldn't have had the wherewithal to do it first of all i didn't know what to do but i wouldn't have i just didn't have i was like so poor and just so broken like i wouldn't i just didn't know how to conduct myself like i was just so impoverished i i wouldn't have had the stamina to go like oh let's go to the national dominicans let's go to the sisters of life i'd have been like i didn't even know they existed but i was like i would have been like i to go like, oh, let's go to the National Dominicans. Let's go to the Sisters of Life. I'd have been like, I didn't even know they existed.

But I was like, I would have been like, I don't want to do this. And I also knew if I didn't, I just knew like the Lord invited me. But I just, I know myself. And had I not said yes then, like the Lord gave me full freedom. But had I gone back to Portland, Oregon and started working in the media, I don't, the odds of me coming back to that were very slim. And so it was just like this massive amount of grace of of the lord um and that's really where the restoration started like it's people like oh you know you have to have your act together to enter religious life no you don't because you

spend your whole life allowing the lord to come and heal you that's a it's a it's a you know an illusion that you know we somehow we're perfect and we're always on a journey of love you know what was it like when you visited the convent or whatever for the first time i mean it was very simple the sisters very simple and it just felt like home wow yeah just and obviously there's like a little chapel there and we have a rule of life and a daily prayer schedule we go to daily mass and the rosary and you know go out and help people and it was such a departure from i literally came out of college like the locker rooms of division was like here i'm at the convent. They're probably like, this girl's crazy. I'm like, I know. I know it's crazy.

I mean, how many times throughout your, what do you call it, formation, were you like, no, no, this is stupid. I'm not going to do this. Like many times. Part of me, I just remember like, and I didn't join. Like when I joined, it was by myself. There was an older woman who was discerning there too, but it was just me.

Like just me. It wasn't like I joined with like six girls my age. Yeah, exactly right. It was just me. So it was like I joined with, like, six girls my age. Yeah, exactly right. It was just me. Interesting. There were so many times I was like. Who was the closest to you throughout the formation? Was there somebody, at least a nun already who was young?

Well, the sisters that I lived with in the very beginning were a little bit older. But when my next stage of formation, I joined people my own age, which was a lot easier. Oh, I see. I'm talking about the very first part. Okay, got you. But, yeah, the last several years of my life, a lot of us were the same age which made all the difference but yeah that first year of my life i'm 22 and i made this decision and i'm like what like what and but i just knew in my heart like you talked about the interior sense of knowing yeah i i knew this is what i had to do with my life i just knew it and i've never doubted that

like i've never that's never been a question. That day would happen in his office. That has been true for me. That's a distinct interruption of grace where there are many times, like we know love is not always easy. And there are days you're like, I want to get off the cross. But I could never doubt that call. Like I know this is my destiny.

This is how God's made me to love. What did your friends from college think? God's made me to love. Wow. What did your friends from college think? I think they probably thought like, they probably thought it was maybe a phase or something, but I.

What year was this? Do you mind me? It was 1998. Okay. That was two years prior to my conversion. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think a lot of them probably thought that I was going to judge them, you know?

And so, yeah, I created a rift in many friendships. I lost a lot of my friends and some of them came back, some of them didn't and but there was see that was that it was a great testing like the Lord was just like I'm gonna have you do this by yourself so to speak and see test this and then I'm gonna have a lot of your friends think you're crazy let's so let's just test it so it was like right from the start it was really uh you know kind of doors where I had to make decisions like am I gonna follow my friends the rest of my life am I going to

or am I gonna do what even though it's a brand new like a baby like reconversion of if there was even an initial conversion but like this just a baby awareness of of the love of God which has you know grown obviously immensely over the last 23 years now but your final profession is that what they call it what was that day like it was 2008 okay yeah it was beautiful i for me like when i made my first vows in 2002 like we count our vows from there and for me it was always even though the church asks you you make you know um temporary vows you make them year to year until you make a term perpetual vows but for me that was always like i'm in it to win it like i never even though you have to say like for one year according to the constitutions of the society for me it was always like of like this is what you know this is my life like this is this

is it and like this is forever and that's and that's i think one of the reasons why like the lord has opened my own soul to like just deep compassion for myself but other people like when i look back at like that behavior or i look back at like the sorrow or i look back at you know even now like the scars on my heart that still, you know, are pain me at times is like, I can understand now, like why she did those things, why that girl did those things, you know? And the whole time I was looking for love. I just wanted to be loved. I wanted somebody to pursue me and find me beautiful and to cherish me and, to love me and to to be good to me and i just was my heart my little flower of a heart was just so crushed i just didn't know what to do with

that and you know you know many times you meet people that they don't know what to do with their own hearts either so we end up crushing each other right so but i understand i'm not excusing any of the sins that i committed or anything like that but i to me, it makes sense. Like, oh, right. One of my first memories of you, and I think this is when I was like, I love this woman, was we were standing on the side of a stage. We were about to go on and speak. Maybe we were about being welcomed up,

but I forget where it was. I want to say New Mexico or something. Have you spoken at student conferences in New Mexico? Do they even have them? I don't think they're in New Mexico. Then probably not, right? Yeah, so it was somewhere there. Arizona, maybe somewhere. But I remember seeing this. It was San Diego.

No, never been there. Well, I mean, I lived there, but I never saw it. Anyway, but I had asked you about Father John Carapi, who was a priest of your order, whom there was a lot of scandal around, who I believe is obviously no longer a practicing priest, do you say? I believe he's still a priest. I don't know a lot of details, but he is still a priest, yeah. But I said something to you, and it was something that was veiled enough that I couldn't have been accused of slander.

Do you know, like, oh, and what happened with Father John Carapi? Something like that, right? You know how we veil language to hide our wickedness? I never do that. You never do that. You gave the most beautiful. It wasn't a rebuke. It was something so sincere where you said something.

I can't even remember, but it was something like, we should pray for him and love him, and we're all one step away from something and I was like I just got knocked right off my horse and went but it was so beautiful how you did It was so loving and beautiful and I just thought gosh There's a woman I would trust my heart with because you know Here I am we like to bring each other's sins up don't we people who we consider worse than us Yeah, look at him you know yes and

and um that was just beautiful so yeah yeah i think we all do that at times don't we so here's what i want to do um let's get another drink of water or a coffee or something okay and then we're going to come back and we are going to take questions from patrons and from the live stream all right all right sweet okay and from the live stream. All right. All right. Sweet. Okay. Beautiful. All right. I want to say thank you to two of our sponsors, the first being Homeschool Connections. If you are a parent who is homeschooling or who is considering homeschooling,

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and give there. we're trying to raise money for a full-time video guy we're also trying to launch our pints with aquinas espanol channel which will be called tequila con aquino so if you're enjoying this work and you want to throw us a few bucks every month that really adds up and we really appreciate it all right back to the interview Hey, hey. Hello. Let me know when we're back. Do you know we have about 1,000 people watching?

Do we? 920 last time I looked. Oh, that's lovely. Isn't that lovely? Yeah. So, good stuff. Yeah. We're back, right?

All right, good. You're most welcome. Well, I thought we could take some questions. Yes, please. We're going to take some questions from our patrons, and then we'll take some people in the live chat. Some of these aren't questions, just exclamations. Like Marcus James says,

Sister Mary, I'm so excited. So, that's good. Me too. Now, I can't vouch for any of these questions. I haven't read them ahead of time. So we're just going to jump in. Okay. If you don't want to answer them, you have to answer them.

Austin Sarabia says, Sister Miriam, during the past election cycle, we witnessed two nun sisters speak at opposing parties. Okay. What is your opinion of this? And do you feel their public presence is beneficial or not for the church, for their vocations? at opposing parties. Oh, yeah. What is your opinion of this, and do you feel their public presence is beneficial or not for the church, for their vocations? Yeah, I know.

There was talk on both sides of that when each sister spoke. Oh, I see. Yeah, so one spoke for the Republican Party, one spoke for the Democratic Party. And those are hard things, you know, like, I obviously, you know, you're welcome to have your own personal opinions about that. But I think, yeah, stepping forth in, you know, we're not, nobody can ever endorse like a certain party or certain candidate. I mean, you can endorse obviously beliefs that are good,

true and beautiful, right? And, but that's always, I think that's always a very, just like a careful, it's just such a,'s always a very just like a careful. It's just such a like it's almost like a landmine at times of we have to be pro-life. We have to speak out the truth of what it is. But it's it gets very tricky, I think, when you start hearing that you're endorsing certain politicians. You know, I know what you mean. It's hard. And so, yeah, I see what you mean.

Like, I think some are more egregious than others. Like, my personal opinion is that Biden was more egregious than Trump. That said, when you're in this kind of dualistic political system, you almost have this either-or mentality. Like, so if it's not him, it's 100% this person. And it's like, well, no, it's not because he's not Jesus Christ. No, I know. So there's a ton that's wrong here as well. And the nuance is often missed.

It is hard. Yeah, because we can never compromise on the essentials of what is true. Like we can never do that. There's just so much in that. And so people, even within religious communities, had different opposing opinions on that.

And I'm not an expert on speaking. I like politics, but I'm not an expert speaking on that. But I think you just have to be very careful. You have to be very well aware of what you're about to do and what you're saying and when you're going to say it, and then be very clear about what you're saying and what you're not saying.

So otherwise, it's like it leaves kind of all kinds of murky things around that. Okay. Kevin Albright, thanks for being a patron, Kevin, says, What specific steps do you take to keep your heart from being heavy with people's mess? Oh, well, I surrender those things back to Jesus, you know, and I just pray a lot of spiritual warfare protection prayers over myself too when I work and minister with people because there's all kinds of just spirits that come or things like that.

And to always remember at the end of the day that I'm not the savior of that person and that I can hear their hearts with, you know, boundaries and then just the way that I can help receive them. But I have to give every single person to the Lord because I'm, I'm not their healer. I'm an instrument of healing, you know, in whatever way the Lord wants to allow that to happen through my own heart, but I'm not the healer that Jesus is. And I don't know, always like, I don't know the answer. I don't know it, but I know the Lord does. And so I think sitting with people and hearing hearts and, and then bringing those hearts to Jesus, like that's and that's really what people want i and i think you probably notice about yourself too like what i really believe that

people don't want to meet me they really don't they want to meet christ oh i want to meet you but you know but you know what i mean it's like i do they that's what they really want and so and it's not a diminishment of me that's not what i mean but it's like but i think yeah just to be always very, just to be very honoring of the human person and just to always surrender them to the Lord because every person belongs to the Lord. That's something I learned from Jason Everett,

who told me to do this. Because I went and spoke a lot about pornography and I'm encountering all these stories that are horrific. Oh, I know. And I would just, because of Jason's example and what he taught me, I would just go and kind of like, sometimes just lay by the tabernacle and groan for like five minutes and then get up and go back to the hotel room.

Yes, I know. And just not think about it. You have to, like, and you have to lament it. I know. It's like I've wept like you over people's stories. I'm like, Lord, I don't even know what to say. Like it's so, and then just, yeah, oh gosh. And just to offer those people's hearts to the Lord.

Like that's not easy. Yeah. Okay. Someone just texted me. I don't know who this person is, but they texted me a question. This is not how the questions are usually asked people. You can't just text me. Oh, it's Ema.

My friend Ema from Atlanta. How hilarious is that? She says, is Miriam your birth name or chosen? She wants to see me on my phone. If chosen, what is the story? So is that your name, birth name, Miriam? So all of us take the name of Mary in my community. So Miriam is the Hebrew form of Mary.

So Sister Maria, Sister Mary. I'm glad it differs because it would get really annoying. I know. Sister Mary, Sister Mary, Sister Mary. And then the name James. So when I professed, our founder was still alive. And so what we would do is we would submit either a keeper by a pismal name or submit three names, and then he would pray about it.

And then he would choose a name for you, and he would write out what aspect of Mary you're called to live out and what your name means. And it was so stunning at the first profession. That's everybody's favorite part of what is your name. So our founder actually named me miriam james and um he named me miriam after our lady of sorrows and then he named me james after my dad my dad had just passed away and it was very special because everybody in the chapel that day knew my dad and so and i still have it framed um on near my wall and it says you know in taking the name of james know that your father in heaven intercedes for you always. So my dad, that's my daddy.

That's lovely. Yeah. Okay. Don and Bethany Wilcox ask, what is the most difficult thing about being a nun? Is it hard to navigate all of the relationships with other women in the order? Let's get some dirt on the other women.

That's a true question. Because i just have to live with one yeah all right well i mean it's like any other common you know community of people everybody has their beautiful places nobody has their difficult places and and um i think you really have to make a decision that you're going for your own part of it you're going to get along with people as best as you can like that's and you can. That's not talking or not, it's just not going to be an option. And so you really do have to, and there's some people like everybody else, like some people are easy to live with and some people are more difficult to live with. But I think the fact that we're living together, not just as roommates, we're living

together around the Lord Jesus Christ, who we've all dedicated our lives to him as a common unifying factor of whatever happens in the house that day or the common that day, like you're going to be in the chapel in the evening praying together, you know? And so you have to find a way to, to work things out or you have to find, I mean, you have to like search your own heart. Okay. What's, what's happening in me? What's going on here? Um, but it's not, it's not like the sound of music. It's not like sister act. God help us all. It's not like that. It's like, we are normal people who are, you know, going grocery shopping and we're going to daily mass and we're, you know, living a life for the Lord. It's very, it was, I think one of the best compliments some years ago is at this

youth conference. And this mom came up to me and she, and she's like, sister, I have to tell you, she's like, my daughter's 16 and she did not want to go to this conference. She's like, it's so dumb. And her mom's like, just go listen to sister Mary and see what you think. And so after my talk, her mom's like, well, what'd you think? And the girl's like, yeah, she's almost normal. And I was like, almost, I'm like, that's high praise coming from a 16-year-old. So like, you're living in a convent with almost normal people. You know, and yeah, it's shocking. It's shockingly normal, really, of the beauty of our life and what we're about. I remember a priest giving a sermon once, and he was saying how, you know, ask a priest, how long do those shiny vestments take until it's like it's not enough to keep you a priest?

Yes. How long until people call you father isn't enough? Same thing with a married man. Like how long until the sex, which you couldn't have prior to marriage and are now having, is enough to keep you faithful, right? And it's not that long, right? Until like as a sister, I'm sure, too, you get this habit, you look beautiful, you feel holy, but you don't continue to have that exact same feeling. Oh, no.

It's love like any other stages. Love matures. Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, it goes through, like, honeymoon phase, like just every other relationship of the day-to-day life. And so I think, yeah, all of us have to wrestle with those things in our hearts of, like, why am I here, the purification of love. Like, that's how love grows. If I don't face those places in my heart and my life. And

I think especially as women, as we go through different phases of life as women, right. And what happens to our own bodies and to our own emotions and kind of the things that, you know, happen. I think you have to be very honest about that. And you have to be very honest about what you're about. Like, I mean, I'm here because Christ called me. Like I, and I know that I'm, I'm here because I'm married to Jesusesus christ like that's the best part about being a religious sister is that i'm married to him and he's married to me like that's to me that's what that's what drove me that's what's kept me all these years like he's my spouse and that's it must be such a different experience if you don't mind me saying because a man doesn't have

a monthly reminder that he is meant to sort of yeah father a physical child in the way that a woman does. So it must be a very interesting journey for a woman as she enters the convent. But then I'm sure just like, you know, you hear these women that they don't get married and their time is running out. What's that like for a nun? Is that too personal? I'm sorry if it was. You don't have to use your own example. You can pretend it was some other woman you spoke with. I love that you asked me that because that's the beautiful journey of being a woman. And that's etched in our bodies. Like it's etched in our, just in the who we are is the, we have a womb, right?

A place for communion, a place where another person grows. And we have breasts that nurture and that give life and that are beautiful. And that, the offering of that to the Lord is not always easy. It's a beautiful offering, but it's not always easy. And I think we have to be very honest about that. There's a, there is a certain grieving that takes place of, of you forsake your own for all like, and that's, that's a true reality. It's not just like, telling yourself that it's a supernatural reality that the Lord takes your motherhood and breaks your heart open so wide that everyone has a home in your heart.

Okay. But there are also parts of your own heart that will grieve that. I know when I turned 40, like that was really, I was surprised at just the depth of that longing of like my body saying, okay, we're not going to do this. Like, okay, we're really not like, yeah, okay. You know, like we're not going to do this. like, okay, you know, like, and so I think as any woman, when she comes to that phase in her life, whether you have no kids or nine kids, when you're like, okay, like this is, we're going to transition to something else. But I, but I think that only way, like the only way through these places of our heart, whether it's to be honest and it's to be taking those places that are there,

they're so gloriously beautiful and so deeply crucifying at times and talking about them to people that you love, bringing them to the Lord and just saying, Lord, I offer this to you. This is so hard and I'm really aching for this. I'm just going to, I know you call me to this. It's not some sort of crisis. It's like, I love you so much.

Please bring life here. Please speak to me here. And the Lord is so incredibly gracious in those places. Oh my gosh. He's so honoring that he knows what a huge sacrifice that is. He is so reverent of, of the sacrifices we make for him. Oh my gosh. Like it's, as opposed to what, as opposed to him saying like, Jesus, what are you talking about? Exactly. I deserve everything. Exactly. Or like, or like, yeah, or like get over it. Or like, why are you complaining about this? Or you have the Lord.

It's none of that. It is him so reverent of the human person, of the ways we've offered our lives to him and infidelity of whatever ways we've vowed ourselves infidelity when, you know, things are difficult or when we come to the Lord in all honesty where he's so tender and he's so gracious in those places. And it's like, it actually teaches you how to revere yourself.

I was like, oh, that's very sacred. And the Lord treats that as very sacred. He never takes it for granted or he never diminishes it or minimizes it. He's like, yes, you bring that offering to me. I'm going to make it fruitful. You come. Yeah. We've got a good question here.

Did Sister Miriam ever get angry at god for all the pain that came from her childhood oh yes so let me just reiterate that for those who didn't hear yeah did did you ever get angry someone's asking at god who andrea balkan andrea balkan for all of the pain that took place and the abuse that happened in your childhood what did you did you get angry at god what was was that like? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I've had many sessions of just deep rage and anger and bitterness and sorrow and why did you allow this to happen to me? And why didn't you make it better?

And oh, oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. That is true. And for a long time I was afraid of that. Like I was afraid of what the Lord would do if I got really angry, if I just was really honest with my heart of where it was shattered and where it just was so broken. And I just, God is not afraid of our anger.

He's not afraid. He's not afraid of the places where we're bitter. He's just not afraid. And so I, because we can talk about all the theological reasonings and you know god's permissive will like whatever you talk about it well but it's here but like we're talking about here of like why didn't you stop that like you could have stopped why and i and i really and i really honestly mean this and i wrestle with these things so deeply and and um i really believe like just just the way that god orders our life it's so

we're so little like we're just so tiny and i don't know like people ask me all the time like why did god is lost that was to happen to me like i don't know i really i really do believe that the day that you and i leave chronological time right and we appear before god and kairos in the fullness of all time and we finally see him and we see as we are seen and we know as we are known and we love as we are loved like i think we're going to look at his face you know i can see us lewis says till we have faces like in his face is the answer and we're going to say oh right like right like there was no other way for me there was no other way it had me, there was no other way. It had in that way where the enemy has come like a sniper to steal, kill, and destroy, where the Lord has allowed this sniper to come

and just try to take us out from the womb many times, and the Lord will not be outdone, and he comes with his hand, and he comes in all those places, and he makes that crushing something far more beautiful than what it would have been. I couldn't sit here with you today, Matt, if I had a different story. We wouldn't have this conversation. You wouldn't have this conversation with me.

Like, how blessed are we really, like, in all things? Like, wow, that's amazing. I mean, I don't want this to sound patronizing, but I'm like, God God I just love you so much I just think you're so beautiful and fantastic and you're saving souls and you're just this pool of beauty and strength I'm like God if that's what it took to make you you

thank God and I don't mean to say that and minimize the pain you went through but you know people have gone through far less than you maybe and haven't become as beautiful as you that's a fact even if that's not as nice to say about people who have gone through far less than you maybe and haven't become as beautiful as you. That's a fact, even if that's not as nice to say about people who have gone through less.

Well, I mean, we all have our own story. Can you ever get to the point where you're like, God, I wouldn't change anything? Can you get to that point now? Yes. You can? Yes, I can. I have a dear friend.

I can't wait. I know. I have a dear friend of mine who says that. She's like, I'm so grateful for my wounds. Like, I'm so grateful for them because if I didn't have them, I would have never known the tender love of Joseph and Mary in those places. I would have never known the Father. I would have never known the sweetness of the Lord.

Like, you know, to say that, I'm grateful for my wounds. You know, that's beautiful. All right. Well, this person says, please read this anonymously. So I will. Hello, Matt and Sister Miriam. I've suffered from multiple mental illnesses, including ADHD and eating disorder and bipolar disorder since I was 12. I left the church while in the midst of a depressive episode at 15 after multiple suicide attempts.

And I've attempted suicide too many times to count. after multiple suicide attempts, and I've attempted suicide too many times to count. I came back to the church at 19 when I was at a desperate rock bottom in my life, and now at 23, I recognize the incredible healing that Jesus has brought to my life. One thing in particular is that even if things get really bad, my faith in Christ has been a shield against hopelessness, and I haven't attempted suicide since my reversion as a result. Still, I struggle with a lot of things. And in particular, I struggle with being consistent in my day-to-day activities and work.

I want to dedicate my life in service of the church and to show others the incredible mercy of God that has allowed me to come so far. I feel the Lord's burning thirst for souls, and I want to quench it. But as things are now, there is still so far. I feel the Lord's burning thirst for souls and I want to quench it. But as things are now, there is still so much healing I need. I guess my question is whether it is appropriate for me

to seek out ministry opportunities when I know there's still so much I need to work on in myself. God love you, you beautiful human. Thank you for writing this. Yeah, what do you say to that? Yeah. Well, I think that, you you know many times in life god will

open certain doors for us and will any of us ever be like like in a sense perfect enough to to quote unquote do ministry no but yeah do we have a certain amount of self-possession or sobriety so to speak or wherever we are where we can in a way that's self-possessed give the gift of ourself and i i would just say I would say never stop seeking the heart of Christ. Never stop seeking the heart of, of whatever you're presenting symptoms are that the day or during a season of your life to allow the Lord to continue to come and to bring those places into communion. This is not fixing us, right? Bringing us into communion and just see, just see what the Lord brings to your heart. See what doors he opens. Like many times the Lord will open doors for us

and he'll bring people to us or he'll bring a job to us and just to kind of see what happens so we're not trying to grasp at something or force something or trying to make ourselves, we're not using people to feed our own self needs. But as a natural byproduct of a life outpoured,

could we in the small ways and the simple ways, like what are the day-to-day ways that the Lord is opening those doors where we can be a vessel of his his love for others and that's always an option you know it's always an option so much of our suffering just seems so futile doesn't it it can be i don't know if we we look at other people's suffering and maybe for some reason we look at that suffering and say i I can see how that was important. But when you're the one suffering,

it just feels like black, impenetrable chaos. And this is probably true with mental disorders. We just feel like this is something really bad that's happening and there's no reason and there's no foothold and it's just me dropping. Yeah, I think those things are very nuanced and very complex. You know, kind of like we talk about why that's happening or what's going on in the heart and the soul. Yeah, and that's like the continual,

just the continual pleading of, I love what they're saying there about the Christ is a shield against hopelessness. Because he is our hope. And like, this is not the end of our story. I really believe that for every person today who was watching this or will ever hear this, shield against hopelessness because he is our hope. And like, this is not the end of our story. I really believe that for every person today was watching this or whoever, whoever hear this,

whatever's happening to us today is not the end of our story. It's not the end. And could we allow the Lord to come into those places that seem hopeless to us or that seem dark? Cause they're not dark to him. You know, the darkness is not dark to him. And so it's like, like,

that's what, like, this is not fixing us. Jesus Christ did not come to fix us. so it's like, like that's what, like this is not fixing us. Jesus Christ did not come to fix us. He came to bring us into communion. And so that communion might look different than we think it is. But when he comes and he sits with us in these places

and he brings them into communion, that changes the whole dynamic of who we are. That's what happened to you in that prayer experience of, it wasn't fixing the little boy inside. It was Jesus coming and with with you bringing you into communion there and like that's a whole different facet of how we view healing and how we you know so yeah i just i feel like there's always like in the there's always a way because

christ is the way there's always a way yeah there's always a way somebody one of my patrons here says i'm from goa indiaibly happy that a priest from my homeland influenced your conversion. Yeah, so lovely. Shout out to India. Rayniel, I want to say his name is. I'm sorry if that isn't exactly how to say it. Raquel Noble, thanks for being a patron. She asks, how does she stay so peaceful and gentle when it seems like every day there's a new scandal in the church, another

reason to feel disappointed in the leadership? Should we ignore as much as possible and just do what we can in our own homes? Well, I mean, I don't think you can ignore it. You don't have to stick your head in the trash can, but I don't think you can't really ignore it either. And I mean, it's the same thing of like what you were saying, Matt, of like how long do the shiny vestments wear off or the sexual intimacy or the new habit? Like, why are we Catholic? And I think we have to always be really honest about that, you know, and why am I Catholic? I'm here because of Christ. Like to whom, where else are we going to go? Seriously. And so I think for me, it's like the fact that we saw Judas at the very beginning, the Lord, I mean, it's just, this is not shocking to the Lord. And it's, is it heart-wrenching? Yes.

And is it awful? Yes. And have there been tremendous victims of this yes I'm not saying any of that but it's like why I don't I don't know like I don't you know why why the Lord allows these things to happen like I don't know and um you know I do believe like we said you know that we're only as sick as our secrets and the church has a lot of secrets and the secrets are coming out and the secrets have to come out because the bride is sick right so all the secrets have to come out so the bride can be made well because jesus christ washes the bride and he makes her well and so um yeah is it horrific at times yes have i cried over it at times yes um but i believe in christ i believe in his church i just i believe in it so it's like where else are we gonna go yeah you know uh hallie martin says how do you differentiate

between forgiveness and enabling someone like a parent that keeps hurting and abandoning you? Yeah. Yeah. That's how do you forgive without enabling? I suppose is the question. Yeah. That's a great question. So when we talk about like Aquinas talks about forgiveness is offering an undeserved gift, right? So offering an undeserved gift. So if we could look at it in a very simple term of really what forgiveness is, is taking a full account of the sorrow that's been inflicted and then releasing our grasp on that person. Like the unforgiving servant has him by the throat, is throttling him. Forgiveness, what forgiveness does is we take that person to the foot of the cross and we're very honest in

what they've done to us, which is why forgiveness is a process. And then we can release our grasp of the grace of Christ and commend that person to God. Okay. So I'm not seeking, I'm not passive aggressive. I'm not seeking revenge. I'm not trying to manipulate them. I'm going to continue to allow the emotions to come out and surrender that person to God and give that person to God. That's an entirely separate act than enabling bad behavior. So forgiveness is not enabling bad behavior. Quite frankly, honest, sometimes many times forgiveness requires us to say, you know what, this is not okay with me. It is not, forgiveness is not even reconciliation. So reconciliation is a coming together of two parties, and that's always ideal. Like, we call the sacrament of reconciliation, where Jesus, God reconciles us to himself, right? But reconciliation

between two people is not always possible in this life. Because it requires two willing parties to admit what they've done, right? And to come together in an agreement with a peace with one another. And sometimes the other person in our life is not well enough to do that, or they're not interested. But we can always forgive somebody. I'm thinking of Christ on the cross, forgive them Father. Yes.

There wasn't necessarily a reconciliation, at least not there. Not with everybody, I mean, because he comes to reconcile all things to God. Like that's what Jesus, he recapit with everybody. I mean, because he comes to reconcile all things to God. Like that's what Jesus, he recapitulates all of salvation history, and he comes to reconcile everything with the Father. But that requires us to be reconciled. I have to be willing to be reconciled.

So it takes two parties, right? God is always willing. But when we talk about like, you know, two human people, you know, they're not always willing. And so forgiveness is not reconciliation. It's not words alone. It's not condoning bad behavior. It's really, it's why forgiveness is really a heroic virtue because it requires us to be fully honest over and over and over again about the debt that was taken from us, about the anger that it caused, about the sorrow, about the injustice,

right? And then offering that person to the grace of Christ, an undeserved gift, which frees us. It frees that person and it frees us, which actually gives us the ability to not have to be enabling other people's bad behavior. So I think usually there's all kinds of things happening in a dynamic like that, but it's not the same. Yeah.

I mean, this is tricky, right, when it's a parent or somebody that you might have to, not always. I mean, you might be called to break ties from a certain parent, but. But even not even breaking, but even setting boundaries. I think when we talk about, you know, boundaries are to protect the goodness of what's in. So if, say, mom is calling you all the time and mom is, and you have kids and you have a family and you have your own life and mom's calling you all the time to do this and this and this and this. And at some point as children, I mean, we're going to say, Mom, I love you, but I can't do this. And I know there's all kinds of things

tangled into that. That's just an example. But I think that's where it requires of, because when we look at how Christ relates to us, Christ doesn't relate to us like that. So we're learning how to, you know, how do we be human beings by looking at the way Christ

navigated his relations with people. And so I know those things aren't easy. I know that. Esther asks, how do you pray through trauma without a therapist or spiritual director? We will do that in a few minutes. How about that?

Let's do it. I can't wait. Let's do that. I'm going to go over to here on YouTube. Any questions come up, John Paul, that are smashing you in the face? I will let you know if they do.

Nate Noble says, if you see this, tell Sister Miriam she is an amazing human being. You are an amazing human being. Thank you. Isn't that lovely? Let's see. Sister Miriam, what's the largest shift over your time that you've seen in incoming nuns

and others new to religious vocation from John B. Does that make sense? I don't know. I'm not sure what he means by the incoming shift, but there's an influx, I would say, within the last 20-some years, especially of a new kind of renaissance of religious life, of young men and women coming to the priesthood, coming to religious life,

and the flowering of many new communities within the last 50 like, 50 years especially. There are a lot of young people coming to a religious life and to the priesthood. Like, many seminaries are filling up again. Religious communities are filling up again by young, vibrant, capable, beautiful women who want to live a life of the gospel. And it's happening, and it's so hope-filling. It's so beautiful. That's a true thing. It is happening, is happening yeah you know here's a final question here and um it's meant to be it's meant to be funny it's a quote from archbishop fulton shane okay but i suppose that it could actually be not terribly helpful right and it's that quote that it's like listening to the confessions of nuns oh it's like being pelted by popcorn it's like being stoned to death with popcorn which is very funny yeah and maybe

true but i think from this talk we've just had you know i've also had sister natalia who's a gorgeous lovely business i'm gonna have her on the show in september byzantine sister to me if i was a woman you know raised in this culture falling into the sins of this society, I wouldn't want to hear that. I'd be like, yeah, well, that's terrific. I'm sure some nuns out there aren't dealing with serious sin, but I bloody well am. Well, and I think, I mean, I hear that quote a lot, and it's like a little bit trite. But not even say example like serious sin, but just the deeper desires of your heart, like what happens in your heart, like the deeper affairs of your heart,

of like what's happening with pride and envy and anger and all that i mean lust always like all those things that are happening like that's just an honest assessment of the human person and so yeah maybe they're not out there like you know it's yeah i get it but it's like oh okay right too but yeah we're just people at the end of the day i spoke i was a did an eight-day silent retreat as you know in wisconsin last. And one of the monks there said, if you want to see how the amateurs sin, go to Vegas. Sex, drugs, you know. You want to see how the professionals sin, come to a monastery.

I love it. That's great. Pride, backbiting, slander. I thought that was so lovely. That is. That was so profound. Like by people who should have, quote, unquote, know better. How did you know that quote?

Have you heard me say that before? You've said it many times. I haven't said it all the time, apparently. But I was so moved by it. Well, I haven't heard it. Yeah. So that's good. I'm going to keep saying it.

As you should. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But what would your advice be for someone out there who's like, maybe I'm cool to religious life, but you don't know what I'm involved in, sister. Oh, I know.

You know, like I'm looking at porn and I'm told girls shouldn't look at porn or I'm still hooking up and whatever. I know. What do you say to this lovely woman? Yeah. I would say, first of of all that you're deeply loved and that those manifestations of your heart are just parts that your heart has been broken right um i want to say first and foremost that a religious vocation or religious a call to the

priesthood is not a reward for good behavior right it's not given to us in chronological time so we discover in chronological time but if our heart has been shaped to belong to the lord for all eternity that means he shaped our hearts with that in mind from all eternity. And from the moment of our conception, our heart has been shaped differently. So it's really, I think it's Father Cesario who talks about when you look at a religious vocation, it's not like, do I want to do this? It's really searching your heart for a gift. Has the Lord given me a gift to belong exclusively to him here on earth?

And if that's true, if that's true, if the Lord has given me that gift to belong exclusively to him here on earth. And if that's true, if that's true, if the Lord has given me that gift to belong exclusively to him, that means that there's nothing that I could have ever done or that will ever happen to me that can take that gift away. Right. It's not, it's not given for a good behavior. It's, it's been there present from all time. So what's happening in my life, like, so if that's true, okay. And if I really believe, like, if I just want to go and see, would say for i would first recommend going and see go see sisters go there's a great website i think it's imagine sisters yeah they have a beautiful documentary called light of love if you have you know religious sisters in your area to go see but then what's going to i think

we have to all ask ourselves okay if here's the life that i'm living and here's my heart's deepest is our what am i aspiring to you know how am I going to get from here to here so what needs to happen in my heart so that I'm free enough to make a gift of myself because if I have unhealed trauma or things like that I don't want to talk about nobody's perfect but it's like if I have active addictions and things like that it's really going to mitigate against me being free enough to be able to give the gift of myself so what needs to happen now in my life so I can become free, free enough to go and see, right? And so, and we'll never regret that. Nobody ever regrets like doing a come and see or spending time in a convent or going to a seminary.

I mean, you learn about yourself so deeply. And so it's Christ's love for us. Like he's so gracious and lovely and just beautiful in how he lives. I want to tell you a story about my bishop. Oh, yes. Eugene Hurley. Okay. When I came to Christ at the age of 17,

he was like one of my only sources of fellowship. Wow. And I'd go over to his place, have cups of tea, talk about Jesus. Wow. He'd show up at my house with like really cheesy cassette tapes of Jesus. Maddie, I thought you might want to watch this, mate. What are you thinking here? You know, things are much less formal in Australia.

Bishop Eugene Hurley. I love him so much. I think he's now in the Northern Territory. Anyway, something you just said reminded me of him. He was in seminary. And while he was in seminary, he was still dating a lady. And I guess at some point he's like, I should probably get serious about this.

And he went to a phone booth because, you know, he didn't have cell phones. Yeah. And he said, well, if there's someone in it, I'll take it as a sign that I'm supposed to be with her and I'll leave the seminary. But if it's open, I'll call her and I'll break up with her, you know. Oh, wow. And so I guess he went there and it was open and he broke up with her. And I think the next day he sat down with the rector of the seminary or something. And the rector, is that the name?

Yes. Looked at him and said, Mr. Hurley, do you want to be a priest or don't you? And he said, this is the first bloody time anybody ever asked me that. And he went, yes, I do. And he went, well, start bloody acting like one. Isn't that great? And now he's a saintly bishop in Australia. That's so great.

Isn't that cool? I love that. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes we just have to have that encounter. You just got to tell it like it is, man. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time

to be with me and to be with us. Thank you, friend. It's so nice. Delightful to spend time with you. I would love it if we could just kind of close with prayer, sister. And it might be nice for you to look into this camera here okay and just to kind of lead those who are watching and i'll also pray with everybody just just uh just to pray okay yeah

yeah i also want to say thank you first of all and i love you very much and you're just delightful and i just yeah your heart and just all the lord is doing in your life and in your marriage with your kids just so beautiful and just so thank you is doing in your life and in your marriage with your kids is just so beautiful. And just so thank you for letting me be a part of it. I feel honored. You're welcome. Thank you. It's very holy.

And I want to say also that the number one book I recommend maybe you do to your audience is Be Healed by Dr. Bob Schutz. So we're going to do like a little version of kind of like an inner healing prayer today. But I highly recommend the John Paul II Healing Center website and then his book, Be Healed. So that is hands And I would just- Hands down, yeah. Thoroughly agree with that. The number one book I recommend across the nation. Just so I can say it,

my experience on the, what is it, John Paul II Healing Retreat? Yes. Was it last year or the year before in Tallahassee? It was two, oh gosh, it was like two years ago. Yeah, because that's where I was COVID last year. That's where I forgot about. Yeah.

I mean, that was a really pivotal moment in my life. Like, I mean, there are certain things you go to, you're like, yeah, that was good. I went to that, I'm like, oh my goodness, like things broke and were healed and it was just amazing. So I just want to give Dr. Bob Schutz and John Paul the Healing,

sorry, I always forget it. John Paul II Healing Center. John Paul II Healing Center, a huge plug. This changed my life personally, and I haven't shared much about it, but I would recommend people check them out for sure. Yeah. I know you do a lot of work with them as well. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's a very beautiful ministry and it's beautiful to be part of it, but yeah, the Lord is clearly just doing a lot of deep things there. Yeah. Yeah. So we pray. Let's do it. I we pray with that. So I'm just going to look in your camera here. So I'm just going to, um, just going to lead you through just a few minutes. We have some time here, just a bit of a meditation and

just want to invite you to come along if you want to. So I'm just going to invite you just to set down anything you might have in your hands and, um, just settle in wherever you are. And I'm just going to invite you just first and foremost, if it feels safe enough, just to close your eyes. And I'm going to invite you to take a deep breath in through your nose and just breathe all the way in and just breathe all the way out. Okay. Let's just take another deep breath all the way in and just all the way out. And Jesus, I just ask that you would bless each one of us here. and Jesus I just ask that you would bless each one of us here I just pray that your tender love would be made known to us

we pray your precious blood would cover us Lord and that you would just reveal very gently Lord wherever you wish to go this evening we just render our hearts to you and I just want to invite you my dear friends just to allow whatever happens to happen in your heart and I just want to invite you my dear friends just to allow whatever happens to happen in your heart and I just want to invite you just to ask the Holy Spirit just to bring to your heart maybe something that's been distressing to you lately or something that's been just painful in your heart

and it could have been maybe something that happened this morning or maybe that's a memory from the past or something chronic that's okay but just allow that just to come to the surface let's not self-censor but just allow that to come to the surface and just to notice that and what is it about it what are the details of it is it something somebody said or just an area of unbelief in your heart or pain just be very honest just an area of unbelief in your heart or pain. Just be very honest.

Just what are you noticing about the emotions? What emotions are you experiencing right now? Maybe it's fear or shame or rage or maybe it's nothing maybe it's just total numbness it's okay and as you experience that as that memory comes to the surface or that thought comes to the surface i just want to invite you just to be very honest and what are you believing about yourself there and those things happen such as I can't do this, I'm not enough, I'm ugly nobody sees me, I'm all alone, this is hopeless

but in that situation, that area of suffering what are you believing about yourself there? I'm just going to ask the Lord just to reveal just whatever root he wants to reveal, because many times these situations have long stories. So Jesus, I just pray that for each one of us in whatever way you'd like to to just lead you through a bit of a prayer and you can say this quietly to yourself or out loud if you want to but i'm just going to ask you just to in the name of jesus christ renounce those things you believe about yourself because in the name of jesus christ i renounce the lie that i'm not loved that nobody sees me that i'm all alone

in the name of jesus christ i renounce the wounds of rejection of abandonment name of Jesus Christ, I renounce the wounds of rejection of abandonment, of fear of shame, of rejection, of powerlessness, of hopelessness and confusion. In the name of Jesus Christ, I come out of agreement with the belief that I'll never be better, that nobody cares, and that it's all up to me. And I just ask you, Jesus, in this very place of our hearts, I ask that you'd speak to each one of us. What do you want us to know about our hearts here,

about ourselves here? And your love for us? What is the truth? What is the truth, Lord? And I'm just going to invite you, my dear friends, if you could, just to imagine yourself holding that part of your life out in your hands in front of you. That situation. That painful story, whatever that is, I'm just going to invite you just to hold it out in your hands in front of you.

And if you could just look at it. And that might feel embarrassing or it might feel ashamed. But Jesus is not embarrassed. He's not disgusted with you. He's not disappointed. He's not ashamed. he's not disgusted with you he's not disappointed he's not ashamed he's not surprised would you be willing

just to hold that out your hands in front of you and could you just allow Jesus to draw near to you and just look at that as well for his face is one of immense kindness. And he loves you very much. And he understands you.

And because he wants to be one with us in all things, if it's okay with you, he's just going to gently reach out with his pierced hands and just gently take that from your hands and place it in his own heart. And that might seem scary to let go of it because we're very used to these parts of our hearts but what could we today maybe in a new way just allow him to take these things from us and place them in his own heart and if so he's just going to gently and very reverently reach out and just take that from your hands and place it in his own heart and because the hands of the king are the hands of a healer,

if it's okay with you, he's just going to gently place his hand upon your heart to the very place that you brought to him today. And his hands are safe, and they're warm, and they're strong, and they're so kind, and they're warm and they're strong and they're so kind and they're life-giving. So Jesus, I just pray that your love would especially come into this place of our hearts, that you would come and fill these places, Lord,

where we believe things about ourselves that aren't true. These places that have hurt our heart to love more deeply. And I pray you would open these places, Lord. And in the name of Jesus Christ, we announce the truth that we are loved we are not alone that we are seen Lord that we matter to you that you care about us that you are with us always I just pray your love Lord be a healing balm that would descend to the core of our being that your love would bring us into wholeness in this very place we make this prayer through Christ our Lord amen

amen thank you sister for being here maybe we could just offer a Hail Mary for all those who you will speak to this weekend and this beautiful conference and we'll wrap up. Hail Mary, full of grace,

the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Amen.

In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. Before we go, you wrote a book, didn't you? I did, yeah should people might be interested in that and then also maybe where else they can find you online i know you've done some videos with ascension presents yeah yeah so the book is called loved as i am so it's a story well it's my own personal story but it's woven into theology of the body and what it means to be human there's reflection questions at the end of every chapter and so my heart is that when you

read the book you'll close it and you'll say, okay, I want to, I want to experience Christ more deeply, or I want to get honest about my life. So it's very little and simple on purpose. I'm on Twitter, but we have tons of videos on YouTube and I speak at different conferences and things like that. And yeah, so you'll find me if you look for me on Facebook or anything or Instagram, but it just, you know, every now and then. But one thing I did want to say is that I mentioned to you that when that priest looked away and he looked at the ceiling, and this is, it's a great fitting end to the story of this whole time together.

But, um, I asked him many years later, I was like, why did you do that? And he said, oh, he said, I was asking our lady about you. No. Yeah. He said, I asked our lady, he was like, why are you bringing me this girl? And he said that day she told me that I had to watch over you and take care of you. So I did. That's lovely. Yep. Great. Here we are. thanks for being on the show thank you so much this is awesome

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