Pints With Aquinas - Two Old Men Affirming Each Other w/ Ennie Hickman

Episode Date: April 22, 2023

Ennie Hickman Joins the show Ennie's Upcoming retreat: https://www.pilgrimagetobeauty.com Show Sponsors: Hallow: https://hallow.com/mattfradd  Everything Catholic: https://everythingcatholic.com

kissing the cross. Now we're live. Oh, we're live. Yeah, kissing the cross, that's a thing. But yeah, my two-year-old goes the opposite direction because we're, yeah. And so it's funny. So I go back and forth, I switch it up, you know,

maybe do both in the same motion. Remember Scott Hahn making that joke about sometimes Catholics will make this sound of the cross and they wipe their nose and you're like, is that something? Is that a new thing? Did I miss something? Yeah, I go back to the center now. I don't know it feels it's like heart Yeah, you know here father son, Holy Spirit me, okay No, no heresy so I just gotta say this I I am really tired. I know, I know you're tired. Yeah, I almost thought this was...

I just don't want anyone to see my tiredness and think that I'm like bored. I'm all you, I'm not bored. No, I'm actually pretty tired too. I am a father of nine. What did you do for nine? And you're away from them. Yeah, my... yeah. What was last night like? Well, I had a coffee around five and then we had a donor event down in Pittsburgh. So, yeah, so it was, my brain just never shut off. But thanks for taking the time, man.

I just love what you're doing. I've been saying this a lot. I think about you all the time. I think about all this goodness that is coming. Can I just affirm it for a second? No, seriously, because I don't know if people know all that you are, you know, even behind know from not not not not always in the camera You're you're a good brother, and you made time for me today, so oh

Thank you. Yeah, I had to come all the way up here to see You know yeah, tell us about the first time we met oh Because this is this is nice like I, I'm sure if I think hard enough, I'll capture that memory. But the first you go. No, I mean, it was unremarkable. Probably was. No, I know. My dear friend of mine was in love with you. So I could. Yeah, I couldn't wait to meet.

She described you as the Australian any. Did she? Yeah, which is, you know, which is like, no, I couldn't wait to meet she described you as the Australian any did she yeah Which is you know, which is like no, I'm not that I'm sure no way. No, come on, man Your hair is looking great. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, I got a good black barber who screwed up my mustache, but did a great job in my hair How do you screw up a mustache he gave me a black man's mustache that's what he did He shaved above and below it. So it was like this. If I was a black dude, I would look really good, but I look terrible. But alas. Yeah.

Very, very white. Yeah. Um, no, I, I, um, yeah, I think, well, I was, I was leaving. You were coming, right? You were in Houston. My wife was living with you at the time. You and your wife and kids. Yeah. You guys were co-youth. Not your wife living with me. That's correct. Let's be very clear. Yeah, so y'all were co-youth ministers Yeah, we were yeah, we were working together. She was she was great. I mean, of course cam is great now Yeah, but boy, yeah Even better. No, she yeah. No, she was she was a great youth minister. Yeah, she was living in our house

My children, yeah woke up every morning and ate her bread, you know, she was living in our house. My children, yeah, woke up every morning and ate her, you know, she would cook breakfast and they would eat it, you know, out of her plate. Yeah, she was a dear, dear friend. And you guys had met years before and there was the long distance thing. Yeah, it was probably maybe a year, that's all, because we did net ministries in 2004ish.

Yeah, yeah, So this was 2005. And there you were. No shoes. With my bags, you remember my leather bag and you're like, that's a bit. Yeah. Is this real? Well, I had this guy because this is before the satchel became popular in America. It was popular in Australia. Of course, I had like a pleather satchel. Yeah. Which made it all the worse. Yeah. No, you you were. Yeah. It was like the Australia. I had a like a pleather satchel. Yeah, which made it all the worse Yeah, no you you were yeah, it was like the perfect caricature

And I and I think I started adapting, you know the word mate I think I still call you you asked me a very fast I've said this about you you say things that stick with me and and they're very simple things But they're very insightful you said when you walk past somebody in a hallway, do you walk on the left side, the right side because of how we drive? And you asked me, I'm like, I don't I don't I don't know. I don't think that's a thing. And then I realized it was. Yeah, I think it really was. And do you?

Yeah, you go. I don't know if I do anymore, but. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I knew we were going to be friends from the get go. But then I left and I left there in Houston and you've resented it ever since resented the city. It was a hard thing going from like beautiful, small city, beach town Australia to Houston. Yeah, but Houston's a big yeah I stay yeah, and I actually don't necessarily I stay there for the tacos and the people

Really and truly like no food and the people are great But yeah, I have I have to get away like we got to get out of there We have a little like hunting lease, you know like 45 minutes out of town that we go spend time at. And then yeah, as, you know, as often as possible, get south of the border, you know, down to Latin America, Central America. That's the-

What I like about Texas though, at least this is true in your neighborhood, is it's big and unwieldy and loud and concrete. But I found that when you would go into those little cul-de-sacs, like where you were living, it's actually beautiful. Like a little village. Yeah, but I found that when you would go into those little cul-de-sacs like where you were living. It's actually beautiful Little village. Yeah, it is and and it's all sorts of people coming together, you know all all walks of life all belief systems, you know

People from all over the world come to Houston. It's kind of yeah. It's just that international city So it's great. You can you can start business there. You can start anything there. We just started a school seven years ago and it's a, yeah, it's a beautiful place. It's a beautiful city. So I'm sad you're not there, but I'm just so happy for you. All this is working out here in. Yeah.

Steubenville. Did you ever think you'd be here? Did you, I mean, like you knew Stubendill from conferences. That's it. The Hans. Yeah. So, I mean, when you come here in the summer, I can't think of a more beautiful place to be.

Really? Yeah, I get the potholes, the meth, the pajama people at Kroger, I get it. But I love it. The pajama people. The pajama people. Would you move that bottle back? This one's going to be slightly in the shot. Yeah. No, I, I, I love it so much. Yeah. Uh, so I dunno. We were living in Houston.

No, we weren't. No, you were living in Atlanta and we were looking at a place to move and we just felt inspired to try this out. Yeah. And I don't trust myself because I'm impetuous and excitable really So when I have to make decisions, I'm like don't I don't ask change I'll just go wherever depending on if I've had coffee or sleep I'll be like I just really feel like if I start saying that don't listen to me as I said my wife No, but it's worked out for you though, like the things you have dreamed up the things that you're like, I will try that Yeah, there are some of them are working.

Some of them. There's a lot of stuff I throw at the wall. But my wife said as we were driving away after we visited here, she said, I've never felt more at home anywhere in my life. Yeah. So I was like, OK, if the Lord's putting that on my watch, that'd be a cool place to raise your kids. So good. Yeah. The less navskis. Who else? Well, it's just on our street, there's like 10 great Catholic families.

Yeah. And what's cool about it, like, honestly, before we moved here, we knew some friends that were starting, for lack of a better word, a commune elsewhere. You know, it was just like we Catholic, everything's going to hell. We need to create a cultural center in the in in, in Texas, in a remote place. And I went there and it was gorgeous and I just didn't feel at all attracted to it. Yeah. But what's cool about student bill is the families aren't, I'm not saying these people weren't necessarily, but they're not like afraid of the world.

If you're going to take off and live on a farm, you might be a little, yeah. But the people here are messy and beautiful. Like someone just said to me, it was Matt McCloskey, cigar lounge opener, said how one of my kids is just terrific. Yeah. I don't know if you feel like this is a dad, but I'm like, if he is, like, I don't think I probably only got in the way. Now I'm sure that's not true.

Yeah. But I just know it's not. But yeah, I know that feeling. Oh, I love I I my my like adult kids Give me so much hope Cuz like, you know, there's some moments there and adolescence we're like, ah, is this gonna work and I don't know it But yeah, I love my kids. They're awesome. So yeah, so I don't know what the the commune versus the neighborhood

Engagement like I feel I feel like what you're saying is they're not only the the commune versus the neighborhood engagement. Like I feel I feel like what you're saying is they're not only norm like normal. I guess in a way normal messy different different family feels like it feels like you're engaging the community here to 100 like you dare to say there's a true community engagement. The cigar bar and lounge. Sorry either one. You got lounge. We're going to try to get some alcohol there soon. But yeah, it's like the peer pressure is lounge, sorry. Either one. Yeah, cigar lounge, we're gonna try

to get some alcohol there soon. But yeah, it's like the peer pressure is to be holy. Yeah. But not in like a weird angry way. Yeah, yeah. But the kids- Because that's like, that's a thing. The kids are just living these human lives.

It's beautiful. Yeah. They're all playing around. Yeah, yeah. It is, I think it is definitely a challenge to keep your feet on the ground and not get too weird and divisive in our culture. Depends on what you're consuming, but yeah,

you're just gonna go off and do your own thing. Great, not, no judgment, but I just hear, I just hear the gospel over and over talking about this, and you know, this engagement, right? Where the people are at. And yeah, I feel like it might be difficult to, um, to disciple. Yeah. Outside of, yeah, just an urban center. But. So your oldest kid, your oldest kid is how old? Going on 21, it should be 21 in July.

All right. So here's a good question for you. If older Andy Hickman could speak to any Hickman whose wife is pregnant for the Going on 21 should be 21 in July. I see is a good question for you. If older any Hickman could speak to any Hickman whose wife is pregnant for the first time about fatherhood. Hmm. Honest question. You know, what kind of advice would you? I mean, first thing that comes to mind is just like relax. Take a deep breath and young any would have went totally totally totally.

So relaxed. we got this yeah, I think yeah, it's that old, you know The older you get the less, you know type of thing, you know, I think starting out was very much You know, I was I had decided how we were going to do it every kid will be this way This is how we're gonna you know this this media, you know, not this media Etc, etc you know all the way down to like sleep habits and nutrition and you have it all worked out, but I think the the the older I get and the more life experience of being a father, I think, yeah, it's just take a deep breath, make sure that you're loving them and not in a like,

I just want to be your friend, like do what I, You know, like that's not love. Like love is love is drawing boundaries. Love is saying no, you know, or saying yes. Like no, you actually do have to, you know, do this thing that the family's up to. But being present when They have doubts or fears or All the normal things that that come about in adolescence or just being human like I don't know if I fit in Or you see them, you know With their head down and thinking like are you okay? Is everything okay? Yeah, everything's fine You could take that at face value and walk past it, but I think, yeah. Sitting, we made a reference to like chatting in the kitchen.

Chatting in the kitchen. I'm loving as my kids get older. People say they miss the young kids stage. I know you've got 800 children, so you have all the stages. 800 exactly. Exactly. Whereas I don't, but I am loving. My wife misses the baby stage. For us a lot. But I am loving my wife misses the baby. A lot. Yeah.

Where's a lot. But I'm loving as they get older. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chatting in the kitchen, just taking time, you know, I think that that would probably be the one piece of advice I would give the young young any was is just take a deep breath. Everything is going to be OK. I don't think I would have listened to any of the advice I would give me.

Yeah. So I think what I would try to do is just create the right cultural environment. I'd be like, all right, this is going to be way harder than you think it is. And you're going to be decimated, but you'll you'll be like a phoenix. It'll be fine. But you're going to need good Catholic friends. Yeah. Go find them and implant yourself in a little. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I mean, we did. Those people, we were blessed with that. I mean, I was at my home, my home parish.

I'm still at my home parish where I grew up, you know, so it's more it's multiple generations of friends and cousins. And, you know, we were really blessed with with our with our community from the get go. Grandparents, you know, my my in-laws just moved two doors down, I tell you that. You mean your folks or her folks? Yeah, Cana's parents just moved to, you know,

like, I'm from here. It's great. OK, good. No, it's great, but like, that's a serious question, because I think young Eni would have been like, I don't think this is gonna work. Like I got it, I'm a man, I'm the dad. I don't need anybody else speaking into this thing.

Or maybe the younger we are, the more we sort of look at our elders, maybe like, they miss the mark here, or they're dumb, or they don't have, you know, they don't have like the wisdom that I have at 22 or 23 or whatever. There's no way to know that though at the time, is there? Yeah, there's no way.

It's just life and suffering. That's the only thing that'll be in it. Yeah, you just get beat to a pulp, and you know, being a, first first of all just being a spouse like just navigating struggle and disagreement and navigating this this idea that like my whole life is just to be poured out for this one person and then you add kids in that mix and and yeah you're pummeled. With your own personalities.

Yeah you're just you're done. You're freaking done. Yeah, you have nothing left I was talking to somebody the other day and they were saying like, you know, what do you I What do you like to do? I'm like, oh, what do I like to do? I don't even know how to even know what that means anymore You know, like there are things that I I dream about or things that I used to like to do but like my life Yeah, isn't my own and and that sounds all pious, but it's like literally not I am Here to there to there and I think yeah in in the past. I probably was more like I got it. Yeah Now when you know, I think it's like I I'll take all the help I can get

Yeah, you know, yeah when you were married without our kids and someone said what do you like to do? What would have you said then I was it was it wasn't very long It was it was literally like nine months that we were you know But as a young man like because you say you don't know how to answer that now I totally know what you mean like for me. I'm like I don't have a drink with a friend. Yeah Like we have to work Yeah, like this maybe? Like we have to work to a hobby. I feel bad about that.

Yeah, no hobbies. I know I do enjoy hunting. I know that's something we share now, which is great. Yeah. You have to come down to Texas and do some real- I always love that. Bird hunting? Yeah, birds.

I love getting on the birds. It's super messy. It's hard. Duck hunting, it's torture. You know, duck hunting is, it's torture. You know, imagine just the worst situation where you're in four feet of mud and then another four feet of water. Wow, okay.

You know, in the marsh. You wake up in the morning, you know, you get out there and you shine your Q-beam lights and you just see alligator, alligator, alligator, alligator alligator and and that's where they're hunting too You know and you're you're you're there hunting so yeah, it's pretty miserable cold wet. That's cool. That's a good thing, but yeah It's the whole yeah, it's the whole yeah experience of sort of overcoming the difficulty. You know to get there. I'm not into the like Scope you know to get there. I'm not into the like Scope, you know Here's a little

Here's an animal just going along doing its thing When my mate John Henry and I went to Namibia to go hunting we used to Joe John Henry be like what? Is he is he chained to the ground by a shit's fine. Just shooting this feels wrong. Oh John Henry went to Africa you know John Henry I do know John did we meet together John power Oh John Henry John Henry John power that's right yeah yeah no I mean I did I'm not a George yeah yeah that's gotta be it was too yeah yeah do you all missing him yeah yeah I do miss him I hope you do I hope to go down a couple of weeks and hang out with him. Yeah hunting. Um, yeah, I like yeah

I like sitting I like sitting in nature. I like sitting even just on my I have like a side yard You know a little smoking patio Yeah, I like sitting I like gardening. I like I like doing that stuff but all of it, you know come to the realization that I Have a very hard time doing something that's even a hobby that doesn't produce. I had this experience, I don't know if I told you this, I went blind in my left eye. I didn't know that.

Yeah, it was this crazy thing. Started out like a flashing in half of my eye and then a blackness. When? This was, I don't know, like a flashing on half and half of my eye and then a blackness. When? This was, I don't know, like a year ago or so. How scary was that? Very, yeah, it was terrifying. And I went to the doctor and they ran all kinds of things

and die trying to figure out what's going on. And the doctor came back in was like so do you take steroids you know like here I'm like like what do you think man and I was like no no no no yeah what is the thing you do what what no there's the old joke if you mess about you'll go blind Yeah, right. Yeah, you got it. Oh, yeah, it's a masturbation joke Yeah, and then he was like, you know, he asked me how much coffee, you know How much caffeine I was taking in and apparently there's this thing and he was like, okay Well, it's all if none of those are the same was like I have an average amount to two maybe three cups

You know a day he's like, okay, so you're not constantly drinking Monster and all this stuff. So it turns out It's called C sr. I don't know what the acronym acronym stands for but it happens in like bodybuilders and truck drivers who are just drinking like Red Bulls all day and stressed out type A males in their 40s and 50s. And it just, it's a stress induced blindness. And so like, yeah.

Was that a wake up call. Oh my gosh Yeah, and he goes, did you know you were stressed? It had some ahead of us. No, I've just always I don't have another gear I don't know what it means to slow down. So he so this was um Yeah, so the doctor was like you you have to you know Slow down like, you know, what do you do to relax? Realizing I Was always Whether somebody told me this or not. I always believed that

You know, hey, I'm the dad. I'm the husband like I'm just gonna go go like I don't have I'm a workhorse I don't have You know and and then beyond that, to be righteous or to be pious or to be the Christian husband was to just serve. Like everybody else gets all of my stuff. I don't have, you know, and that kind of like what we were saying earlier.

And so, so realize I just didn't have any gear to slow down and rest. And I still, so he gave me medicine, which was probably some kind of steroid. No, it was for mountain climbers. I have no idea. It's like a medicine for mountain climbers. Yeah, it's like, so yeah, I went to the CVS

and they were like, oh, go on mountain climbing. I'm like, no, I'm blind. Yeah. And, but anyway, it, it, it, it, I went to the CVS and they were like, oh, go on mountain climbing. I'm like, no, I'm blind, yeah. And, but anyway, it, you know, so I actually, like it's sad to admit, the medicine worked and I never, I haven't slowed down. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, jokes on you, Doc.

He's like, you gotta meditate, you gotta like do some stuff for you. And like chill out, like yeah, but give me, where's the drugs, got to meditate. You got to like do some stuff for you. And like chill out. Like, yeah, but where's the drugs, man? Yeah. So it took like a month or so to go back, you know, go back to normal. You afraid that was it?

It was just not gonna come back? No, he was like, it's gonna go back. Basically what it was, it was a detachment of the retina and it was a fluid buildup. How stressed out are you that the retina's like, I'm out. Yeah, I'm out. I can't do this. Can't take'm out. Yeah, I'm out. Can't take this anymore.

It's weird getting old. You finish your story because I've got a lot of old man anecdotes. No, that's it. Yeah. Well, you're back. On my back. You're carrying your stress in your back. Here's a really weird one. And I looked this up and apparently it's a real thing. My eyelashes on this side of my face have given up.

What? They go down now. Oh, dude, maybe they're depressed. They I was yesterday. I was in the bathroom and I said, what the bloody hell was I looking for? I came up. I came up here for a reason. And Peter went here. He gave me the eyelash curler. I'm like, that is what I was looking for. Damn it. Wow. I have to use an eyelash curler.

Otherwise, I'm I'm seeing your eyelashes. Do you see how these are down? Yeah, see that that's a thing. Do you see it? I see it but that's an old thing That's an old man. Can you look up eyelashes going down and see if that's really a thing? Thank you I've seen the I've seen the eyebrows that just might might have making rogue Yeah, it's like I want to trust that my body knows what it's doing. Like the nose hair. I'm not talking about. No, no, I'm talking about the hair that's like coming out of your. Oh, I haven't got those yet, but I do have an ear thing. I don't have it either, but it's like I'm very afraid.

The light was on me. There's like one rogue. Nice. Only 40 year old plus men. We're going to enjoy this episode. It's going to be like, why the hell? Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, I can't get them. I can't get the eyelashes to go up. So I'll I'll do that. Yeah, I'll put it down and they just yeah Is there a cure? Well, there's one I pay for I could come over and like zoom way in on your eyeball. No if you want it. Yeah, it's crazy. So there's that

Yeah, so anyway, I, I, I went as wide as they used to be. Yeah. It's just a wonderful teeth. I don't say that anymore. I'm going to break your heart here, boss. Uh, it's a part of hair thinning because it's the same thing. And so as they thin, they're less structurally, they become thinner and so they're less structurally sound. So they're less able to support their own weight.

Do I cut them off? Do I shave them off? How do we with them? No, no, don't put anything sharp close to. No, I'm joking. No, I've noticed that with my beard. I think last time I was on the show, my beard was probably bigger. Yeah. So the hair thin, the hair, the grayness has a different

density. Yeah. And it was doing weird things. And I was like, oh, you got to go back. So you're going, you're going all very gracefully. You look very good. Really? Yeah, oh 100% Yeah salt and pepper thing Okay, yeah, you look great. Yeah, I'm just going bold my lash. I'm giving a great man I see those YouTube like a little thumbnails. Hey, man. Look at that handsome gentleman Yeah, you really do. I mean like I know, you know, sorry again, this is just like

Affirmation City right now. But yeah, I'm just so yeah, you did good, man. And Cam's looking great, too. Feels like I asked John Henry. I sent a photo of us when we were when we got married and he texted me back and said, Cameron still looks beautiful. You look like a boy until a week ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that's what it is. Yeah. You yeah. You you until a week ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. You Yeah, you you you you were boyish until yeah until 40 and now you're an old man. But there's that fella Gavin McGinnis has this joke where he says to his kids like I don't need my looks anymore. You do something with them. They're not as important as you get older. You don't need them. You go do something with them. Yeah, I hope it's yeah, I hope it's I hope it's wisdom. I've been thinking a lot about. The next 40, you know. So I'm 40 this July.

Yeah, I are so you're so young. How old are you? 44. Yeah, this month. Oh, like two days. Yeah. Hey, yeah. Happy birthday. Who cares about birthdays that you get this morning? For yeah this month. Oh like two days. Yeah. Hey, yeah Cares about birthdays that you get this for you after 40 is just back eggs and guiding until death. That's right Yeah, no, I I I've been thinking a lot about this, you know Cano's brother. Yeah

died tragically last year and He was 39 and he wasn't always, he was a mess for a while, for a little bit. He was wounded in battle twice. He had two purple hearts, one in Iraq, one in Afghanistan. Always a beautiful soul, but know, on his mental health. And it was a, you know, some years of wandering, but in 2015, 16, just, it was a miracle. I mean, we got, we got Evan back and, you know, he, he found the river. We traveled back to his home.

So it was a fly fishing trip. The Sierra Club, not the Sierra Club, but the Sierra Club helps veterans suffering with PTSD. They organize these trips, hunting trips, things like that. And he wanted to go hunting, but all they had was this fly fishing trip and found peace on the river.

And then went to a raft guide school and became a raft guide, like a world-class rafting guide. And the amount of people he interacted with there and sort of that group and our family worried about him for so many years in the war, of course being wounded twice and him losing soldiers and stuff. It was really difficult. And then post wars, it was terrible. And then he's on the river, and we just never

gave it a second thought. He had found life again and wasn't married. My brother, my brother said after he passed away, which by the way was super tragic, like he was down in Guatemala helping young indigenous, basically training them to create a tourism, like an industry, to bring some economy to rafting on some of those rivers.

So it was a solo trip and the river had swelled and the boat capsized. He told the kid exactly where to swim, how to swim, get to safety and he stayed with the boat and disappeared for two days. And then when the river went down, they found his body. But when he passed away- We all went to Guatemala when that happened.

No, no, we weren't there. Doug, Deacon Doug, my father-in-law, did go down part of the rescue. A hero, you don't wanna talk about a dad. Really? I mean it was it was very moving to see a father do that and go you know travel down. He's still missing. He's on the river working. So he didn't know that he had died until he got there. No, I mean there was No, I mean he yeah, I was two days later

When they yeah, they pulled him out of the river and you know, but thank God like we found You know if we did find his body and we were able to have a funeral mass back in Phoenix and the place is packed and and what I was getting at is that There actually wasn't a person that had met Evan that didn't feel, in those last six years, prior when he was a kid and stuff too, but those last six years that didn't feel loved, cared for, the most important person. It really was who, it didn't matter. He only got mad at injustice. He only got mad if somebody was left out you know he was a great uncle he's a great brother to me

always there you know he was the uncle that stayed up late to do puzzles with the kids when like all the parents were like we're out you know this is enough you know he'd be like I'll stay. And we had just been with him in Guatemala. We were there just prior to that, the accident. And yeah, just had a great, great last moments with him. And the point being, his life mattered. Yeah.

No, it's, it is. It's, I'm gonna die. And I think when I was younger, like front to me, I meant to more like, I remember your death had a lot to do with stop mastering. You know, like, you're gonna die, you know, you better be ready. And, you know, you better get it right before you die, you know, so you don't go to hell. I think, you know, that's the way I interpreted that, but now I just really want my life to matter, but maybe not in the way that I think.

We're familiar with Zig Ziglar, a business guru. Are you familiar? Yeah. Okay, so he always says the cycle or the way that your life goes is like you survive, you're young, you're a young adult, like you're just surviving and then you succeed and then your last piece is to be significant. And I think the Christian man might be,

like that's all backwards. I feel like maybe significance and our life mattering might be more important than success. And, you know, survival is we're always just going to be surviving. So I've been kind of obsessed with this idea. It's like because his eulogies were, I mean, it was adventure, it was war, it was like he did a thing that was hard and then he loved people and he cared for people and he was doing something good even to death and he died in a place you know on the river that he

you know he died doing something that he loved and was risky and you know all these things. So so it's really beautiful to hear his family and his friends talk about, and of course we just, you know, the week, I mean just drinking and crying and, you know, and of course his, you know, I got videos of him on my phone, it just, all of this, all of this to say, I've just been sort of obsessed with this idea of like, what will they say, you know, and I've been given talks for 20 like more than half of my life. I've been doing talks and A lot of people know me from that

And they'll say that and that's great But what are the people right around me gonna say what are my friends gonna say? You know like oh he was a great interview, or like, he was, I'm not, first of all. But like, but what will Matt say about me at the end? Like, that matters to me. Like, that I was present to you, and that I loved you. And I think, boiled down, you know, like, I love history, you know? So like looking back, you know,

there were moments in time where the church was like, what were you guys thinking? Do you know what I'm saying? Like sometimes in his church in the eighties, right? That's what we mean. Like, yeah, sure. Yeah. Like you could look back even in recent history and go like, we thought- I look back at myself within the church participating in something that I would now be embarrassed about. Yeah, we thought we were doing it right and we were way off.

And it's like, there's, it's difficult to see where you're wrong or off when you're right in the midst of it. You know, like I had frosted tips at one point so did you know totally? And like you look at those pictures, and you go well that was really dumb like what was I thinking? You have someone strip a strap a rubber cap on your face It looks like a comb right and then pull your hair out and paint it And you're looking at yourself in the mirror with any degree of respect. Right. There we were. Shameful.

Yeah, there we were. But what are we doing now? But we didn't. Right. What are we? Exactly. That's the point I'm trying to make. It's like, what am I doing now that I will look back on and go like, what were you thinking?

Something about that shirt. I'm second. Man, I wore this for you. Well, I was going to say, sometimes you'll travel. Like I was in Italy with my wife and we were in Ischia, which is a little island off the coast of Naples. And I bought like this little straw kind of raw like hat.

And I said to my wife, there's no way this is going to translate in America. Yeah, but that does though. No, no, no, it doesn't. Like I think on the street, well for you, because you've you've been there you've seen that you understand what we're doing, but yes I know I Back on you real quick Okay It's like it's one thing I went to Uganda and they gave me this kind of like tribes sort of shit that wouldn't translate

Like that is the perfect blend. I think between what we would wear. It's just added color. I think thank you Yeah, I love it. It's all right. Well if you like it, I'll leave it for you. It's for you. You're skinnier than me. You're like, I don't like it that much. No, but yeah. So I, I, so I've been asking this question, you know, about my own life, you know, I've got a good 40 years left. Like, what is that going to be? You are optimistic. What's that? 84? Yeah. That's good. Yeah. You think you'll make it that long? I don't know. I mean, I'm like 65.

I think I'm out. Yeah. Matt, don't do that. But see, I can't. It's the cigars, man. It might be. Yeah, I'm OK with that. I don't want to stick around that long anyway.

I think your wife would. She'll be fine. I look at the end of my life like my own. Like, I have to look at the end of my life in the same way that I look at my own sinfulness. I can't look at it without Christ. Yeah. And that sounds whatever it sounds like. But you know, if I, if I encounter my own just wretchedness, my pride, my selfishness with my family, all that, if I try to explore that without the gaze of the merciful Christ,

like I just collapse in on myself. And it's the same thing with the end of my life. If I try to explore that without the gaze of the merciful Christ, like I just collapse in on myself, and it's the same thing with the end of my life. If I imagine myself dying in a hospital bed or however the hell it's going to happen, I can't look at that apart from the reality of Christ in heaven. Sure. Yeah, no, it is. It's looking at heaven. It's looking at it's like attaching yourself to the cross. It's salvation. It's all those things but like Something in us does want to be like remembered for something and I think that there's you know

We have an opportunity with our life You know to to witness to and do you think if somebody was to respond to you and say well No, I I think that's a bit prideful to want to be remembered for something Do you think they're kidding themselves that no this is actually a lot it. You should desire to I'm not saying I'm not saying Remembered like maybe you will be this is a great dude. You're reaching tens of thousands of people with this right I'm talking about Liam yeah, you know like gotcha, you know I'm saying it's like Yeah. You know? Gotcha. You know what I'm saying?

Not too much how strange this thing is. No, not how big it is, right? And this idea that there are saints just folding laundry right now. Like just like doing the ordinary things, loving God, you know, with more than anything, and then loving the people around them I think more so it matters more like what my not my what my kids think of me but like what they will say at the end and I Pray and I want to shape my life around this idea that they will say dad loved me

You know dad loved God. Dad put God above everything, more than, like, even if his friends weren't into it, or even if everybody left, like, Dad probably still would have worshipped God. And when it was difficult, Dad loved me, and Dad was patient with me. So I know that sounds like super p pious and like, but anyway, this is like happening in my head constantly since Evan's death. It's just because we did, and it's like we spoke highly of him because he was a mess too.

He was a mess too, but he loved. And so in like in the context of church too, this is, it's become a broader question for me in that when we look back in a hundred years, what are we doing now that is... What if we're off? It's just a question. I'm not saying we are. I just, the question of like, maybe there's something that future church will go, what were they thinking? And when I look at it, and this isn't

like, again, this is no, I think everything, all content created right now is beautiful. It's diverse. It's got all kinds of voices. But I'm in the scope of history. I kind of look at it like we talk a lot right now. Like if you wanted to spend all day consuming content, you know, forum.com or you could do that and almost trick yourself into thinking that you are living the gospel by consuming gospel-y things, right? And my hunch is, I'm not saying that's all, my hunch is that might be weird to, it's already weird probably to developing worlds, like where

it's like, what? It's a lot of talk. So, you know, biblically, you know, doers, not hearers only, that is kind of ringing true. It's kind of the only thing. I mean, what would you say to, like, if this was an era of the church, like what, I mean, you probably have a lot to say, but like, as far as what would be scandalous to a future church if like they were to look back and say... Well, I keep thinking that we distract ourselves to death with both political and ecclesial politics. We keep refreshing our news feeds to see what Pope Francis or James

Martin or somebody has said, and we're rightly sometimes confused or sometimes even scandalized. That's all legitimate or lied to. But whenever that becomes whenever that becomes our sphere of concern and and and and that detracts from the authority we actually have over our bride and children and The people were called the husband and cultivate. Yeah, I think that's what's so scandalous of my own life I see this addiction to novelty and and and seeing that with a church lens Yeah, is I'm already horrified at myself for that addiction to novelty and and and seeing that with a church lens.

Yeah, is I'm already horrified at myself for that. Yeah, and that's not just because not just because not just because I shouldn't be just kind of distracting myself to death, but because of what it takes away from my family and friends. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I think that's I think that's it. And I think like to your point earlier on on it was these programs and like the happy clappies anymore Like a confirmation program programs are weird worded Yes, I think so. Oh, yeah. Yeah, here's a question for you that I find it should have you think about this for years now

It's like with with the advent of YouTube and social media and social media Influences YouTube YouTube what I'm finding Interesting competitive when like you and I met was like who's going into youth ministry nobody and maybe they shouldn't be I'm not saying It's necessarily a sad thing, but yeah, it's just a lot easier to be an influencer on Instagram Yeah, encouraging people right? Yeah, and for for me too, to do this thing on YouTube. Or all the options, right? I mean, good options. I think for you and I, this is it.

That was one option. You could be a church youth minister. If you were excited about Jesus, and had a hemp necklace on, you could go and do a thing. There are so many apostolates, so many, you know, you look at Focus or Vagabond, or you know, there's a million different ways

to use those two or three years of youth, you know, before I get married, right? We were trying to do it as career people, and that was the only way we thought maybe we could get paid enough to feed family. And, you know, in one way, it's sad that the industry has not been professionalized enough to make a living. We just lost our youth minister at our parish

and my pastor, he wasn't looking at me like it's you, but he was looking at me like, you know, we just lost our youth minister. Basically, do you know anybody? And I'm looking at him like, why are you looking at me? Because in my heart, I'm like, I would love to do that. I would love to just disciple young people. I actually feel like I have a to do that. I would love to just disciple young people. I actually feel like I have a gift for that.

But it's impossible. How could I do? I would cost so much. I have 800 children. Exactly 800 children. How will I feed them? So yeah, I think both the... But then to hop on the other side, the 90% of the world doesn't pay people to do what you and I do. I mean, there are small locations where, you know,

you get... But you talk to anybody from India and it's like, oh yeah, I get a stipend for, you know, giving talks. They're like, what? Like a stipend for talking about faith and Jesus. I can see it. I can see it being both, um, detrimental in American culture, right? Like that you would pay someone so much money to come and give a talk. Right. But I also look at the apostolates that appear at least prima facie, to be blessing the most people also seem to be coming out of America. It's true. Well, there's innovation. We try it. We go for it. I mean I think there's a yeah a can do

thing. You plant a thing. You have a dream, a vision. Find a donor. Get it going. You're a beautiful testimony to that. Like without folks who had a little bit of cash believing in you, without folks who had a little bit of cash believing in you, this isn't happening, right? So clearly God uses anything, anybody. I hope you hear that in all charity. No, I did. God has blessed you, yeah, and blessed your apostolates. But can I just switch ideas here? Speaking of apostolates. Yeah. Pilgrimage to beauty, a true retreat to the breath. This is such a right hand turn. Forgive me for how violent that was.

This is great. It's a perfect segue. It's actually a perfect segue. A true retreat to the breathtaking beauty of lake. I want to say a titlan, but that's probably not it. It's a titlan. I want to say a titlan, but that's probably not it. It's a titlan. A titlan. Guatemala. Where you can pray. So what is this?

This is your beautiful pilgrimage that you take people to in Guatemala. Yeah. So, Kena grew up there. Your bride. Yeah, Kena, my bride, who is... Pilgrimages to beauty.com. Pilgrimages to beauty.com. There we go.

Link in the description. Thank you. Yeah We you know, we started going there in 2001 to the lake and you've been there you stayed a like I was at by the iguana thing. Yes Larry's place that was So yeah, you you know you a lot of weird hippie looking people. Well, there's some expats You were honest kind of a very strange. You're kind of of weird hippie looking people. Well, there's some expats. You were on us kind of a very strange You're kind of on a hippie side

We people who address so bizarre even around bizarre people and then look at you as to ask Why would you look at me? You know why it's because you are intentionally dressing like a weirdo It is a it's a retirement community for people who are looking for peace and rest They live there full time. But yeah, we started going there in 2001. We went to this village called Santiago, and Santiago was known for the pagan guy named Maximon. Maximon was a leader in the community, kind of a womanizer in the community, you know, like one of these

king people. And he died and they set him out to dry, essentially. And he was just this kind of mummified guy. And one day somebody just stuck a cigarette in his mouth and like it like smoked down, like Makhchamon had smoked it. So people started bringing him cigarettes, blah, blah, blah. The moral of the story is it was 92 years in this village where there were no priests.

The church was founded in 1565 or something, right? The church was literally built there. The Spanish brought the faith, but then no more priests. So for 92 years, it was totally abandoned when Oklahoma City diocese started a mission there in the 60s. And priests and nuns going down to Guatemala during the Civil War, it was this day. So it became a place of faith. So in 2001, we started visiting there. And we were getting, you know, we were being sold cigarettes here, bring a cigarette to Maximo.

And they're like, no, we're like, we're going to this church over here. Yeah, it was totally bizarre. I was like, I'll take it. I'll light it up. I'll give it to Maximo. So then in 2016, 2017 2017 we started bringing people we lived there for a while and in 2017 this guy plus the Stanley Francis Roeder a plus

Spanish on this side in that yeah I was getting excited she's good it's half the length that I thought it was? He was be- exactly. He was beatified in 2017. Oklahoma City. Can I have a look at it? They had a, yeah, and I have a relic for you. Do you really? Wow.

Very good. In 2017, he was beatified as, you know, he, and if canonized, he'll be the first American-born martyr. Martyr? Yeah. So he'll be the first American born martyr. Martyr? Yeah, so he was martyred for the faith. So he's known as the shepherd who didn't run. And, you know, during the civil war, this is during, you know,

kind of the communist takeover of Latin America. And the state government is, you know, kind of the communist takeover of Latin America. And the state government is, you know, of course trying to squash communism and guerrillas, you know, in the jungles. And the indigenous people were sort of caught between these two fires. If you were indigenous or you looked indigenous, you were immediately the enemy, right?

Because most guerrilla warriors looked like that. And the guerrillas, the communists, were coming into villages and just stealing all the young men, conscripting them straight into the army. They did horrendous things. They would give them a dog as a young boy. Here's a dog.

And then you'd care for that dog for a year. And then, you know, much like the Nazis, they would just say, okay, now shoot that dog in the head to numb them to, you know, violence and stuff. And so anyway, so indigenous faithful people were just trying to practice their faith. Of course they were burying their dead. There were over 500,000.

I mean, that's like a low estimate of people who were disappeared for the faith. And they started killing catechists. This is the army, right? The Guatemalan army, you know, hiring hit men to kill catechists and deacons and priests and nuns and lots of people were losing their lives. And so what happened is the bishops of America just said, okay, everybody home, like get everybody out of there. And so all the American priests and nuns left

and Rother, you know, this farm boy from, you know, from Oklahoma said, a shepherd doesn't run at the first sign of danger. You know, you stay with those, stay with his flock. And so he went home for an ordination, told his people, I will come back. You know, they all thought, you're never coming back. He said, I will come back.

He comes back on Palm Sunday. There's a picture in that book. And that book's for you too, by the way. Thank you. You know, he comes back on Palm Sunday Like a Christ figure, you know knowing that he was on a death list knowing that he was going to die he comes back to Santiago to his people and He starts spreading the word, you know and starts, you know

He he doesn't want to he doesn't want to be tortured First of all, like he had been picking up mutilated bodies out of the jungle for years and years and said, you know, I was just terrified, like, I don't want to be tortured. And first of all, you know, because I don't want to be in that kind of pain, but secondly, like, what if I'm weak and I cave and I talk about where the catechists live

and where all the people are? And so he spreads the word, he's like, they're not gonna take me out of the rectory. Like, I will fight them. He's like, they're not going to take me out of the rectory. Like I will fight them. You know, of course you've been there. So, you know, Guatemalans are small in stature, strong, you know, farmer. He brought modern farming to Santiago. He built a radio station, you know, with his bare hands, you know, a school. He's a strong guy. And one night they came for him, and the young seminarian, or the young man

who was discerning seminary there at the rectory, said, Father, they're here for you. And he said, all right, just bring them in. And for 20 minutes, fought these men off. They were trying to take him out of the rectory. And he was just like, kill me here. Like, I'm gonna die, but don't torture me. And so they put two bullets in his head

right there in the rectory. So this trip that, for this peaceful, restful, this beautiful, beautiful place where you can really unplug, it's like, wander where the Wi-Fi is weak is one of the things that we say. It's just like, it's a very rustful place, but for us, it became a true pilgrimage site to somebody who loved God, loved his people, was faithful to his call as a priest, and sort of a kind of a priest of our time. He's a good, he's a handsome, handsome man, you know, he's not, you know, denying his priesthood.

A lot of the guys who were down there left the priesthood. And yeah, so it's a beautiful trip. So this last time, we connected with, well, we have been connecting with this husband and wife duo missionaries down there. Of course, there's so many Protestant outreaches, you know, for the people, and they're doing great work feeding, clothing, water, the whole bit. And this pair of Catholic missionaries is down there. Edgar's dad, Nicholas, was taught how to read by Blessed Stanley Rother. So he was a student of Rother's. He taught him how to read and write. It's an amazing, amazing story. So Edgar, because his dad could read and write and started his

own business, Edgar goes to university, he has a degree, it's like that the whole idea of you know ending the cycle of you know of poverty there. He comes back and of course his apostolate is just to teach kids how to read and of course they have to be fed before they read and you know all these things and they can't travel. So the point though is you're bringing people down there to hang and rest. Yeah, so we're going down. That's a long explanation of what the pilgrimage is about, but we're going down. It's for couples who need a little bit of, it's a very romantic setting, volcanoes, the lake, the whole bit.

You wake up to tropical birds. You can attest to this. This is so much cooler. This is just to me in my stage of life. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds a thousand times. Yeah. No, hang on. Sounds a thousand times better than getting a bus in the Holy Land and just going from place to place. Yeah. And I want to go to the Holy Land. Yeah. No, no offense to that kind of pilgrimage. Yeah, exactly. The idea of like a leader walking around with a point you follow the guy and you know, and see the holy sites like I love that stuff, but

But but yeah through the years if I'm gonna take time away was that can you come in you move? Yeah a little Thank you. Yeah, if I'm gonna come away You know get away spend spend some time with my wife, that's not what I want to be doing. I need a hammock. I need some good coffee. They do rum down there. Some tobacco.

Watching the sunset, volcano, taking a little raft, whatever. That was my kind of pilgrimage. So the idea of Pilgrimish to Beauty, and then this witness of Blessed Stanley adds that spiritual dimension that, you know, we don't spend a ton of time there, but we spend a day at the church, and you can see the bullet holes in the ground. Is his body there? No, his heart and his blood, jars of blood that the nuns sopped up upon his death, they knew immediately, you know, he was a saint.

But his body is in Oklahoma City. They just built this enormous shrine in Oklahoma City. 20,000 people have gone through the doors there. And so a little bit of our apostolate is this idea of, cool, you go there, you know, you pray for his intercession and you're inspired by his story, but the reality is there are still people in Santiago who are suffering, who could use, like, if 20,000 people just, you know, hey, $1, you know, we could really help some kids, help some families, and so there's a half a day where we take food,

you know, to the people that Blessed Stanley loved. And yeah, it's a half a day where we where we take food, you know to the to the people that that blessed Stanley Loved and yeah, it's a cool deal. I I love that y'all cam went time. Well, you can't wait I wasn't there. It was just it was just a girls trip and And then and then you guys ended up going there. I love that you've had that experience because it is it's it's life-giving Like I said like the big city the urban deal my going blind all sorts of things like I need to cut out every now and then and we found this soup I mean it's two and a half hour flight down there and so we we love yeah we love getting away and taking people so this last trip you know took a couple and

Walking away it was one of the it had been a while since I had thought we helped Them yeah, yeah Just in a very general like I you know you get off stage sometimes I was like I get off stage of like I said some things I had fun You know, I thought it was great. Did I help anybody? I don't know, you know this pot like this this episode I don't know if anybody's watching still like thank God. Maybe we helped some people but But yeah, it's it's a really unique experience for Kena and I to minister to people in a real like human way organic eating eating great food together and

Talking about the things that matter. So when do you go? Cause I want people to know that before we wrap up. So yeah, so November, our next trip is in November. It'll be, yeah, it'll be over Thanksgiving break and families are welcome. We take, you know, we'll be taking our kids. We miss it. We loved it. So just to, yeah, shout out to Guatemala.

I mean, we, we, I'd love to go back even just for a week. We'd love to go back. Yeah. It's such a. Yeah. True, true. If you're in need of a, a true retreat, the kind of place where you'll go and they'll know English. It's not that place. Oh no. No. You're going to really need to.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's again, we're, if you try to go there by yourself, you know, without knowing much, it might be, it was, it might, yeah, it might be a little exhausting, but you know, again, we've been going there for 20 years. Is this you in the photo? Yeah. And who? Cana? Yeah. It's Emily and Cana. And I, I, I took that picture. It's a good, it's a good picture. It's hard to take a bad picture. Cause of the volcanoes. It's a very photogenic area. So yeah. So thanks for, thanks for promoting it.

As you wrap up, I gotta say two things to folks Number one is there's a great website called everything catholic comm you can think of that as kind of like the Amazon for Catholicism But what's cool about it is it's not just mass-produced stuff They're producing things from Catholic artisans and here Thursday you going to need to make your joke about the chrism oil. Oh, it's fantastic. They have chrism candles here. First of all, smell that candle right there. Just smell it. Well, they also have the chrism body spray and the the sense the and I made a joke that

nothing makes Catholic ladies think this guy's marriage material more than smelling like a newly baptized baby. Yeah. So click the link. Click the link below everything catholic.com. These are fabulous people selling fabulous Catholic stuff. So please check them out and click the link and you'll get a discount. And then also check out Hello, which is the number one downloaded Catholic app in the world right now. Actually was listed. I was exhausted last time trying to get a bed.

So I listened to Scott Hahn read to me again. He's my go-to. You ever listen to Hello? I listen to you. Hello. Hello. Do you really? I love your voice. But do you listen to Hello? You like it? No, I just have to just making that up. Okay. Well, I am on Hello, but it's great. No, I know you are. Yeah, I know you are. It's I imagine has the sleepy voice. Yeah. Hi, I'm Dr. Scott. He does have such a great, beautiful. Yeah, like this morning, like mad Dr. Hahn. I didn't tell him I was listening to him in bed last night.

Yeah, but it is an excellent. I have hello dot com. Use the promo code Matt Fradd. You'll get three months for free. That's ridiculous. So if you don't like it after that, you can cancel. You're out there. You're, you're, you're up there with, uh, like some like real famous people. I mean you're on how, how low, but he, I don't know. Yeah. Like the guy that plays Jesus roomies on there.

Rumi, uh, what's his face? The Boston guy? Roomie balls. Dude, what? Marky Mark. Wall balls. You've got to stop using balls. It's like, just... I say this all the time. I'm like, any balls.

Peeta balls. I love it. I said it to my son the other day. No, don't tell him that. What's up, Peeta balls? And my son said, please never say that in public again. So it's just, it's my thing now.

It's super good. I'm going with it. Yeah, no. Go... Wall balls. Stick it up your butt. Can I tell you something really funny? Please something really please do your son butt dialed me a couple of days ago Oh my gosh, and I heard in the background somebody you call someone

Something balls and you really if I heard Liam say never say that again Yes, you're a witness to it. I was waiting for the perfect time to bring it up. That like, this was ideal. That he butt dialed me. Yeah. Gina called me the other day, butt dialed me. And it occurred to me that I liked hearing from her butt. But here's what's funny. Nobody's butt dialing anymore.

I think we butt dialed when there were actually buttons for butts to press. I don't know. Something happens. Maybe Siri. Butt dial just means you tried to call me, oh crap, I meant to get. Maybe Siri.

I meant to get. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. L. M. E. Not any. And this is looking for anus. It was definitely in a pocket. I mean, yeah, OK, so you may have hip dialed you. No, but we'll go. No, it's yeah, it's good.

But back to back to Hallow, like there you are, man. It just making me so happy. I started promoting Hello before they were cool. Well, no, I remember. That's the only reason I'm on it. No, no, I remember them showing videos at the conferences and just being like, this will never work. And then they got you and Schmitz.

The ideal would be to take your phone and put a bullet through it and never use Hello. I think that's the goal. Yeah. But if you're gonna have a phone, this is an excellent app to have. It's hard to deny that that would be edifying, right? That's true.

Even like sleep stories for your kids, you know? At night or, I mean, you see folks now in adoration with earbuds in. Still don't know how I feel about that, but now I don't judge them as harshly because I figure they're listening to Hello. Yeah, it is strange, right? Like we do this, we're like, yeah, just get rid of it. Like no, there's nothing good about it. And then we're like, but also

Hello.com is paying me. Yeah. Yeah. At conferences, it's like the schedule, the examination of conscience, everything's on the app. And I get why you would want people to download it. But let me tell you something speaking of peace This is what I'm about to do today. I do it did it last week and it was wonderful Yeah, I get my phone on my computer and leave it at the office and go home. Yeah, you leave it Wow, do you have another Like Thursday my wife my assistant has it like just a few people have it Wow I just go home and just see and play scrub with my bro.

And you're not doing any social media, but others do that for you? Yeah, I have, I quit Twitter. That was the best decision I've made. Yeah, I did too. It's just a cesspool. It is bad. It's bad. Yeah, I don't do social media. I mean, I have the accounts, but it's not.

Yeah, it's hard, man. I mean, my two-year-old wants to see monster trucks, you know? And there's no quicker way to just, oh, yeah, let's search monster trucks on Instagram. But what I found, if I wanted a peaceful weekend and I could leave the laptop or the phone, I'd leave the phone. Yeah, there's something about people trying to contact you and you may want them to contact you.

You may want to speak to them. Yeah, but it's that constant on alert. Someone has someone has someone. Yeah, I'm actually I fresh refresh email Oh, I can email that's email Email email email email. That's that's the downfall for me. I'm always looking for that next big email, the opportunity or somebody reaches out or a donation or something like that. It's like, what do you call that? Yeah, slot machine. Slot machine, that's what it is.

Like refresh and it could be from wayfair.com or it could be a big donation or an opportunity. But yeah, no, this couple who came with us on the, on the last pilgrimage, um, that was one of their, that was one of their things. They just left it and they disconnected and they didn't, you know, it was no, they don't have children yet, but, um, but yeah, that's cool. I, I, I've been thinking about doing the dumb phone thing. I got to show you the wise fun. I'll get it out here. That's my dumb phone, the wise fun. Okay. Are you selling that? No, are you okay? I don't pay me. They're not paying nothing. I should

But I really I really like it because it's zero internet, but it has maps Hmm maps of fantasy instead of photos. Yeah, I think I need that. I think I need Music app they just added and you plug a cord from your computer to your phone and you drag mp3s on if you want to listen to stuff Oh, wow, but it's not just an endless hole of entertainment. Yeah, kill your soul with yeah, it's hard I've seen with my iPhone. I had my wife block the app store with a app with a password So I see even my iPhone is really limited, right? Yeah, I was actually I'm heading to talk to Justin and hopes near, you know, they they're a part of that scholarship is really limited. Right. Yeah, I was actually, I'm heading to talk to Justin and Hope Schneer.

You know, they're a part of that scholarship at Franciscan University. The, as it knows, it's like, it's like everybody. Yeah, so my understanding is basically if these folks give up their smartphone for a certain amount of time, they get a big chunk of money towards their school. Yeah, which is so innovative.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, thank God for Francis. Why do you love Francis? Things like that and Father Dave Pavanca. He is the man. Yeah, he really is. And, you know, I've traveled, traveled, you know, Africa. And he's so normal. And so holy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He really loves Jesus. Yeah. You think you. But I never get the sense that he's trying to make you know that he loves Jesus. He's just himself. No. That's the thing. I can hear him. I just saw him two days ago and I got 30 minutes of his time, like totally blessed that he

was in town. And I knew that he was going to say, what's up? Yeah. Like I, I, there's not, there's not another per like, you know, there, there's always pretense always like, you know, gosh, great to see you or like, or, or this and that father Dave is so normal. It's not man. You're doing it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a kind of a character. Anybody be it staff or student who doesn't immediately say kind things about him.

Obviously that's not the litmus test for whether he's a great guy or not. They could like him and he could be awful. But he is, he's, he's brave. And I just think sets the tone for the university. I like, when I think of Franciscan, I think of people who are orthodox, right? They love Jesus Christ. They love the church and they, but they want to go and proclaim the gospel. It's a great school.

Yeah. Yeah. And I like that. Yeah, and I like that term, brave. He is brave. There's no, I mean, we were talking about it. Did you see his chat with Jordan Peterson? Yeah. It was excellent. Excellent, yeah. And did he get on with Prager too?

Yeah, I haven't watched it yet, but he had a chat with Prager last night. Yeah, and we, real quick, can we let people know that the Prager video is doing way better than it looks like it is? Yeah, do you mind if I do do that Danny? No. So I interviewed Dennis Prager last night we debated pornography and uh for about 47 minutes I thought it was gonna be like a five minute thing then we got into it but what's funny about YouTube is so on the outside how many is it saying we got? It is interesting I don't know what this is about. Our back end currently is twenty nine point seven thousand.

Twenty nine point seven thousand views. So we're closing and this is the one that was hosted this morning. So in four hours we are closing in on thirty thousand views. But on the front end it only says sixteen thousand, which is still nuts for us in four hours. Yeah. But why is that, do you think? So it's I don't I don't want to like come across like play the victim card. So it could be- But here we go.

No, so there's two things it could be. It could be that the, the algorithm, we put pornography in the title because we don't want it, we didn't want to hide it from the algorithm because it does get, the descriptions at some points are explicit and not for kids. Right. Right.

And so we don't want it popping up in places it shouldn't be. So it could be that that is also having a back effect where the the YouTube algorithm doesn't want it like pushed super big because it is talking about some explicit topics the other one could be that because it is because it is what it is that YouTube is purposefully throttling it hmm or it could just be that the amount of views we're getting this quickly I guess there's three it could just be that the amount of views we're getting this quickly, I guess there's three things, or it could be the

amount of views we're getting this quickly are frankly just out of this world for our channel's normal thing. And so YouTube is verifying the views more, more strictly to make sure it's not being bought at all. What's the average minute watch? Like are they watching the time watch

on this video is 14 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Which, which sounds like not much. 14 minutes, but it's that's 10 minutes more than usual. It's which was going to get out about statistics now. I don't know if you expected to do that. I just I want to see what you do with all that money.

It's ridiculous. Yeah, the money is ridiculous. I'm going to use it to bring down the porn industry. There you go. But like watch. Yeah, let's see. Honestly, watch time collectively and then watch time collectively is 6.9 thousand hours of that one video. It's insane.

Do you know how many wasted words that is? What's your next biggest in four hours? Probably when I had George Farmer, Candice Owens husband on talking about how he married her. Oh, I thought he was saying what's our next big interview. No, no, no. Exactly. What's I thought he was saying what's our next big interview What's the way before this? What was the previous record? Yeah, what's his face? Wow, George again? No, and here I am any wolf But yeah, that was fun. Yeah, I didn't I

I'm not part of the political scene, obviously, and I'm new to America. So I became familiar with him and enjoyed a lot of the things that he said. But is he did you know who he was? Dennis? Barely, barely. Yeah. I mean, I just I I'm with you. I mean, I think it was like Bush era, you know, he he kind of hit the scene as a sensible person, OK, you know, a sensible conservative. He wasn't going crazy. That, that's, that's, that's all I know, you know? And then like a faithful Jewish guy. Hey, Dennis, he was

funny. He was too, cause I am fascinated with Jews and the Sabbath and you live in a Jewish area. Yeah, no, I am too. I grew up with you. I grew up with Jewish people. Yeah. Oh no, it's why he was saying he was, this is what I want to adopt. What is the all-male dance? So have you seen the Hasidic? No. I mean- I want to, but I don't.

I don't, it's not, don't hear me wrong. I don't want to exclude the ladies, but an all-dude jig would be really fun. You got to go look at it. You know what I'm talking about? It's a bachelor party I guess. Yeah, like it's just this giant, they like fill stadiums and it's just like, yes. All right, here we go.

I'm gonna Google Hasidic all male dance. Yes, it's easy. Yeah, it's right there. And of course they all just, there's the uniform and everybody's, so it's not reformed, it's and you know, of course they all just there's the uniform and everybody's you know, so it's not reformed You know, it's not reformed Jews But but yeah our neighborhood is full of folks who are just super faithful What is the idea that they can't get into a car is it a wedding thing and so yeah, maybe yeah

Okay, it's called the mitzvah taunts and they all dance in front of the bride I don't know why they do it. They all do. She loves it. She's like, I never asked for this, but let's let them have their time. It's the Hittistic... OK, words. It's the Hittistic... Words are coming out. It's the... I can't say this word.

Hittistic custom of the men dancing before the bride on the wedding night and after the wedding feast. Commonly the bride who usually stands perfectly still Will hold one end of a long sash All the one dancing before her holds the other end Yeah, and there are times when the leading rabbis usually her father or grandfather will dance with her as well But I mean they're all it's really good. It's a really good You know, it's all synchronized. You gotta go. Yeah, so I would like that

somewhere in our tradition Yeah, yeah Obviously Joseph on to the end of it and people assume that it's like a medieval custom if we if you were to have a uniform That like, you know Catholic is like this is what you have to wear forever. Like this is your, what would it be? It's, uh, it's a good question. I mean, I was gonna say something like a black cassock, but that's reserved for the priests. So like the laity uniform. Okay.

You guys are going to be identified. Um, I don't know. Actually now I think I, I think in my earlier days when I was cooler, I probably would have said like a V neck. Yeah. I would have been way into the black V neck. Yeah. Black V neck or a white V neck jeans. White cassock. Yeah. I don't care if it's wrong to like Birkenstocks. You're Gen Z. You probably hate Birkenstocks.

I'm wearing Chaco's. Those are different. That's different. Yeah. Those are cool. Yeah. I mean you're walking through creeks and pulling out canoes. I'm playing an acoustic guitar to John Michael Talbot. I honestly just don't want to tie my shoes and it's warm enough outside that I never have to worry about. No, I love you at Berks. No, I never knew that hating Ber was a thing whenever people hate things

At some point amount it tilts and it's now okay to it's like Nickelback. You know, I hate a band until you Are you great? Like why do you do that? No, I like I'm look man. I'll tell you I'll tell you the truth I'm wearing Costco pants right now Costco I bought them at Costco like I don't and and then this indigenous made sure they're fine but I mean like I I don't yeah there I think last year huh and then welcome to Costco I love you what does that mean yeah no something that's idiotic yeah okay I yeah I just um my wife brought them home and she was like hey hey, I got these.

And I'm like, great. I don't, yeah. I think last year, or maybe it was post-COVID, it just broke, like it just broke in my mind. Like the idea of stressing about what people might think about my clothing is just so weird. I'm 44 years old. I shouldn't be concerned about what people think about me.

Well, isn't this what Seinfeld says? That at some point your father just picks out a suit or a set of clothes like this is, this is what I'm gonna do for now. And that's how you can tell what your father's favorite year was. He just, he just locks into that. He locks into that. That's true. I, that's how I feel. I feel that, man. I don't, yeah. But, but oftentimes if I do take a stage in front of youth, I go ahead and admit that right, like right out front. I was stressing about what jeans to wear,

which is just so silly, coming from a man my age. But we kind of do, right? There's this weird, I got to fit a part, or people are going to say something about my Birkenstocks or you know, whatever. I remember Birkenstocks are left at, Oh, um, what are they? Crocs. Crocs were like, like every, it wasn't, it was millennials. I can't really made fun of Crocs. Yeah.

And then now they become cool. Oh, yeah. Like everybody. Yeah. So this is actually hilarious that you just brought up. Yeah. We keep looking at you. It's really funny that you brought Crocs up.

So the movie I just quoted, Idiocracy. Everybody in that movie wears Crocs because the premise is that everybody in the future is stupid. And a guy from the current year whose average goes to the future and turns out to be the smartest person alive. Is it a good movie? It's hilarious. You should watch it. Absolutely good movie though. Yeah, absolutely That's what I said But The guy who wrote it whose name escapes me currently saw Crocs when he was writing the movie like in their early stages

And we're like those are so stupid Yeah, like nobody's gonna wear them but then the movie got delayed so much that by the time the movie came out Crocs were super popular yeah it's true well yeah it's impressive you know that that's a really cool little effect to it fantastic all right let's wrap up yeah I'm gonna be too so um great chatting room yes thank you so much I love you the best bit about these chats is at the end what you just done so we're done now so now done now now let's actually start caring and actually just yeah Costco pants Costco pants and I I'm just gonna

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