Pints With Aquinas - Why I JUST Became a Catholic w/ Dr. Alan Harrelson

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

Matt will talk to Dr. Alan Harrelson about his recent conversion to Catholicism. Support the Show: https://mattfradd.locals.com/support Show Sponsors: https://hallow.com/matt https://stpaulcenter.com/matt Frasssti Pipes: https://frassatipipes.com "Tobacco and The Soul" by Michael Foley: https://www.firstthings.com/article/1997/04/tobacco-and-the-soul  

And we are live with Dr. Alan Harrelson. Thank you for being here. It's a pleasure to be here, sir. I told you the way this happened. My friend Kyle Whittenton sent me a text, he went, hey, you know this guy? I'm like, yeah, I used to watch him. I love the stuff he does. He said he just became Catholic, or he's becoming Catholic. I said, can you reach out to him? And I don't know how he got in touch with you. Did he email you? He sent a message through Instagram, I think is the way I received it. Or he sent a message through our social media platform, Pipe Cottage Social, I think. He may have done it there.

Anyway, he did reach out and within 30 minutes of my posting a video explaining of my conversion to Catholicism, I get that message and then I get a text from you within half hour. And so it's a privilege to be here. I've watched your content for some time, it's always good, it's helped a great many people, it's a God-ordained ministry. Well thank you very much. We've got your link to Pipe Cottage in the title, so people can go check your stuff out. But we've got a cornucopia of things here today that we want to discuss and experiment with.

You have brought a bag of tobacco and whiskeys? Yes. What are we doing? Well, we are enjoying proper Kentucky life. That's what we're doing here. And my wife and I live in southeast Kentucky now, and the holy trinity of Kentucky living is burly tobacco, bourbon whiskey and bluegrass music. I do like bluegrass music, even as an Australian.

What do you say, what does burly tobacco mean? Burly tobacco is a type of tobacco that's grown in Kentucky. It's different from Virginia tobacco and Oriental tobacco. It's one of the American styles of tobacco that's very popular in pipe blends, as a matter of fact, which we will talk about. Let's do it. Okay, well first of all, I need some whiskey. So what is this you got over here? This old... You've got four roses. I've had four roses before. This is Old Hillside and not very well known, but I discovered it at our local establishment entitled The Bourbon Barn. I discovered it after we moved to Kentucky and the company is owned by I think three veterans from the state of North Carolina, although it is bottled and made in the great bluegrass state. Spotify.

Cheers. Thank you very much for bringing the whiskey. Pleasure to be with you, sir. Now, my confession is that I, you've probably heard people say this already. I think old bourbon tastes the same. I need to, even though you're going to disagree with me, let me, let me go deeper into my errors. All right. I think that if you've got a rye whiskey, obviously there's a difference. If there's a difference in alcohol percentage, then I can tell the difference. But if you've got like a 40% bourbon and a 40% bourbon, I think they're the same. And I think that if they're not the same, they're not the same,

they're not the difference in price. You know what I mean? They're not like a 30, 50, 60, 100 more dollar difference. No, well, you have a bottle of Blanton sitting right yonder. And that's easily a $100 bottle of bourbon. And thank you for placing that closer to my side of the table. I may have to partake here directly. But Blanton's is good. I buy

Didn't buy that one just to be clear someone got that. Well, there's a local Store liquor store next to my home. It's probably four or five miles away from the farm and Every bottle of Blanton's they receive, they know that I'm coming to buy it. Because they only buy one like a month. But I enjoy that, but there is a big difference in my mind between a $15 bottle of bourbon and a $30 or $35 bottle, but not as much difference between $30 and $50 or $50 and $100. There are many people who are

connoisseurs of bourbon and who can argue this point day in and day out. I am not one of them. Yeah, I know. I have a lot of respect for people who have a sophisticated palate and can tell the difference. I just can't and a while ago I gave up trying and so I when I go to a store I always buy the the the bottom, the barrel bourbon. Are you primarily a bourbon drinker? Yeah. And do you ever use it in a cocktail or you drink it straight? I like it straight with ice. That's all I ever use for the most part. Unless it's something a little cheaper than I will put some kind of cocktail together. Yeah. Just to make it palatable. I was in Guatemala recently and I was enjoying drinking the mezcal and the tequilas. I really just missed bourbon.

And I'd go to shops and all they would have is Johnny Walker red scotch. It's not the same, I need my bourbon. No, it's not the same. My wife is of Hispanic origin on her father's side. And so she is a major, major margarita aficionado. She loves that sort of thing. She loves tequila. I, however, do not. But I do have my little whiskey girl now. Ever since we got married, I've brought her around

in my way of thinking. Very good. Well, I want to ask you about your love for pipes and how you got into it, but I do want to light up before we do that. So maybe we could take this as an opportunity for you to teach us a thing or two. Well, I can certainly give it a sportin' chance. The pipe I am going to start out with is... I like that you say start out with. Yes, because I have three here. And you plan on smoking all of them?

Well, it depends on how lovely the conversation becomes and the longevity of our visit. But I'm going to start with a pipe, a straight billiard from a company out of England. It's Northern Briers is the name of the company. And this guy makes pipes on a riverboat on the River Thames. His pipe shop is on a riverboat. And he produces pipes on that boat so that he does not have to pay property taxes at any one particular location. So I bought this pipe from the briary which is a beautiful pipe shop in Birmingham, Alabama and one of my favorite pipes of all time. So people often ask is there

much of a difference if I've got a corn cob pipe or a $300 pipe? I mean is it what's the is it gonna change the experience? No not really especially if you're just starting out. I can get almost as good if not as good or better of a smoke out of a corn cob than I can a briar. It depends on the blend. Okay. There's a world of tobacco blends out there that pipe smokers 30 or 40 years ago did not have, especially 50 or 60 years ago. The heyday of American pipe smoking is ostensibly from the 1930s through the 1960s and 70s.

And at that point in time, people could go to their local store and find what we now call Kaja blends, and they were primarily burly American-based tobaccos. And you could find them at most any drug store. But now we have such a large variety of tastes and formulas that are used to produce pipe tobacco. It's just, we are in fact in the heyday of blends and there are more pipe manufacturers now probably than there's ever been in the history of the country. So it's a good time to be in the pipe smoking hobby.

Well, I got a church warden here and the reason for it is it looks cool, but I have to say this is the most satisfying pipe I've ever smoked out of. I never get the... and maybe I'm smoking it wrong, right? So you can teach me, but I usually get that... if I'm smoking a short stem pipe, I'll get that bitter stuff going on. Maybe I'm smoking too hard, I don't know. But with this, I don't and it also stays lit.

I don't have to relight it for some reason. And I don't know if it's because I've got to take a longer draw each time or what. The Churchwarden stem is popular for historic reasons. Many people buy them because they remind people of the Lord of the Rings moment. A lot of pipe smokers are interested in Churchwardens, but that there is the most Churchwarden church warden I have ever seen. It is delightful. That stem has to be 18 inches long. And this is a pear wood pipe. It's made by a fella from Ukraine.

Most church wardens stop about 10 to 12 inches. But what you get from that long stem is that there's some disagreement about this in the pipe world, but I think that the smoke does cool down by the time it goes from the bowl to the mouthpiece. It does cool down. I do not often travel with church wardens simply because they're big. And they're obnoxious to carry around. And you cannot pull this out without apologizing to people. It's like walking into an establishment wearing a kilt.

You need to explain yourself. You can't just walk in with a kilt. There could be a good reason, but I need to know it. Pulling this thing out, people need to know what's going on. Scottie When you pick up a pipe, you are asking for people to pay attention to you. In a public environment, you just have to get used to it. You are asking for people to look at you, to pay attention to you. And one of the themes that I talk about on the Pipe Cottage channel is when you pick up a pipe, you are a representative of a larger, more historical community. It's much bigger than you are.

Now, I don't wanna make it sound as if it's a religious following or a cult or anything of that nature. But when you pick up the pipe, people have an image in mind of the type of personality that's going to smoke a pipe. And I remember there was an excellent article in First Things Magazine years ago. I do not precisely recollect the author, but I remember he was drawing a distinction between cigarette smokers and cigar smokers and pipe smokers.

And pipe smokers are oftentimes more philosophical. A good friend of mine in Pennsylvania once told me that he walked into his local pipe shop and the owner of the shop told him and said, yeah, we've got three different kinds of pipe smokers or tobacco smokers that come in here. You've got your cigarette smokers, you've got your pipe smokers, and you've got your cigar smokers. The cigarette smokers are just in and out. They come in the shop for their nicotine fix.

Cigar smokers, half of them are very nice people. The other half are corporate America, business minded, don't have time to sit down and talk with you. Pipe smokers are gentlemen all, gentlemen all. So that's a cultural phenomenon. It doesn't tell us anything about how to smoke the pipe. So I'm gonna fill it up. What do we got? We've got- I have the article by the way.

Yeah, if you wanna reference it quick, yeah. Michael Foley. Michael Foley. Yeah, that's the fella. Tobacco in the soul. It's the one about the different type. Yeah, the you want to reference it quick, yeah. Michael Foley. Michael Foley. Yeah, tobacco in the soul. It's the one about the different type. Yeah, the appative. Yep. Exactly. That's the article. Thank you. I'm glad that somebody is there to find those citations because. Sorry, I mean, one of the things we like about cigars, of course, is that there's no added chemicals. All you're smoking is tobacco leaf or different types of tobacco leaf put together. But with these different blends and the different flavors,

how are they adding those flavors? Are the unhealthy chemicals also added to the tobacco? You mean pipe tobacco? Yeah. There are some companies, particularly when they're producing aromatic blends, we'll put propylene glycol in the pouch, which is a preservative. I don't know of any science behind any unhealthy characteristics behind that. It's a preservative.

But for the most part, premium pipe tobacco does not have any kind of preservative on it. And there are many stalwart pipe smokers who would never touch an aromatic blend, a blend that has been cased who would never touch an aromatic blend, a blend that has been cased or topped with either an alcohol flavor, such as rum or bourbon, or it's been cased or topped with a vanilla or caramel flavor, anything of that nature.

Most premium pipe tobacco and pipe enthusiasts are interested in the pure tobacco itself and how well the blender has put a burley, an oriental, a Latakia leaf together to create a taste, a flavor profile that's attractive to a particular person, because different people have different palates when it comes to pipe smoking. Yeah, see, so I've made the transition, long time ago I only smoked cigars that were flavored, but now I wouldn't dream of doing it just because it would disgust me,

not because I'm against it in principle, just because I wouldn't want to do it. Same thing with coffee often. Right, right. I want the coffee for the coffee's sake, but I have not yet made the transition. I do like some English blends, some smokier kind of blends,

but I also do like the sweeter kind of peach flavored blends Yeah, so I look forward to making that transition one day. Well, we need to do that tonight All right, you need to move away from this peach nonsense. So there's some real pipe tobacco. So let's let's go. What do we got? We have It's hearth and home. I just go through this real quick the blends that I brought from the house I just picked them up. And I've probably got at least 70 to maybe 100 different blends in my cellar. Because I'm telling you, the massive amount of options you have in the pipe smoking world

is just almost mind boggling. But this blend here, Hearth and Home, Smokey Mountain is the name of it. It is produced by Pipes & Cigars, I think they're headquartered in Pennsylvania, and it's Dark Fired Kentucky. And it's burly pipe tobacco that has been cured in a barn with a fire under it. The tobacco's put in the barn and they have a fire in that barn and it puts this smoky flavor to it. But that is also mixed with a little Virginia leaf, and so it's not pure dark-fired Kentucky. We have, and I wondered whether I should bring this on a Catholic-centric podcast. Presbyterian

mixture. We're all about loving our Protestant brothers and sisters, so happy to have them with us. The Presbyterian mixture is one of the first English blends that I really grew to love. It's primarily Oriental and Virginia leaf. There may be a little bit of that. Oh, I really like that. Yeah, it's got a, but there's no aromatic topping or anything on it. Okay. No, the only aromatic that I really have here. Well, that's my favorite one.

So that's my favorite of the two. So I'm going to give you that one back because I think I'm going to, this Catholic's going to smoke the Presbyterian. And you're not yet a Catholic, so what are you right now? Well, I'm in the process. Prior, did you identify with a particular denomination? Well, for the past year or so, my wife and I have been members of a restoration church called the Christian Church, First Christian Church in Monticello, Kentucky.

And that, of course, comes out of the Campbell Stone movement of the early 19th century. And this movement did not believe in any creeds whatsoever. We're going to go back to – it was a continuation in their mind of the Reformation. We're going to go beyond Luther, beyond Calvin, and we're going to go to the New Testament itself. And so at the time, that was attractive, but it was never a comfortable situation to be in spiritually. I'll talk about that in detail in just a minute. Yeah, I just thought it would be funny if the Catholic was smoking Presbyterian and

the whatever you are was maybe having a Catholic blend. Yeah, right, right. All right. This is GLP's Quiet Nights. This is what we call a full English blend. And I just popped this open this evening. But you will notice the strong campfire leather smell to this. Both of those sound good to me. And many people think that the dark is really good. Yes. Many people think that the darker the tobacco, the richer it is. It's not necessarily the case. See, everyone people think that the darker the tobacco, the richer it is.

Yeah. It's not necessarily the case. See, everyone you give to me, I think, is a better one. Now, can you explain to us the difference between, what would you call, like, the kind of mulched-look tobacco, and then when it's more like this? I don't know the terms. That is a flake. A flake. That is, actually, that's more of a broken flake tobacco. It depends on how the Manufacturer is curing and cutting it and people have different preferences So for the flake what I want to I want to break that up myself Yes, and put it in you what you want to do is break that do you not have something you can put it on? I can do this. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'll do it now. You just take your fingers and break it apart actually

I don't want to smoke that, so I'm not going to do that with you. I'll just tell you how to do it. Okay. Yeah, all right. You just break it apart as if you were crumbling a loaf of bread. Okay.

And that's, yeah, that'll be good. Oh, you're gonna like it. Oh, I just think you're gonna love that. Thank you. So does that churchwarden have a filter in it? It does not. Should it? No. Good, but it doesn't. No, no, no. If I ever buy a pipe that is filtered, I immediately take the stem away from the shank

and remove the filter entirely. And so what's the difference as far as the experience of smoking pipe with or without a filter? That's a heated debate, to the extent that there can be heated debates in the pipe smoking world. People who use filters of the opinion that it reduces a lot of them. It makes the smoke more clean. It's more clean.

I find that it makes the smoke less tasteful. So I'm not interested in a filter. It's kind of like- You're not interested in contraceptives anymore, as a new Catholic, right? You're gonna have to let go of that. Right, right, right. They are, it's kind of like when you're making coffee

in a percolator. Yeah. They have filters for percolators, and that's not what you do with a percolator. Okay. You simply pour the grounds in there, and if grounds settle in the bottom of the pot, then who cares?

You have the flavor profile Can you because I want to pack this but here's how I've done in the past Here's how I've thought about it and then you correct me I've thought of packing a pipe like starting a fire You've got the kindling and then you've got the twigs and then the sticks and then the logs So you want to be light on the bottom and then the more you put in the heavier you want to push it such that you're looking at me like this is the stupid explanation everyone's ever given you. Well it's one explanation. How about a shut up? You tell me. How should I do it?

Of all the explanations I've ever heard, that's one of them. But no. No, no, no, no, no. I think that it's a bunch of nonsense all of these people saying you need to Just this in here and then shove it in there a little harder next time No, you just put what I pay attention to is the draw All right, it needs to have a draw. I like a draw like I'm drinking through a straw. Yes. Is that good? Yes, that's that's what I like to aim for anyway Now what that's good to know I'll stop doing my little

Kindling spiel when I well you need to be I mean even right now I would caution you against using your finger and so strongly really yes You you do not want it to be so very do you are you able to smoke the bowl all the way to the bottom? Yeah, okay be so very, are you able to smoke the bowl all the way to the bottom? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's probably it. This is good. Yeah, that's good.

What I'm going to fill my pipe with is Frog Morton on the Town from McClellan Tobacco Company. All right. A company that is no longer in business. So this is rare. Really? Oh, and it smells divine. Just here, you can give us a whip you need to at least See it smells it smells good. It doesn't smell nearly as pungent as it's not to us. It's not

That's why I'm not starting with either one of those And start with this because this is easy to smoke while I'm talking. Okay. I have to have because when you're dealing with the pipe, you're not necessarily supposed to be talking the entire time. Why it's more for contemplation. Yes, you're supposed to contemplate and take your time and resolve the issues of the day. But since we are talking about pipes, it doesn't make any sense not to fire one up. Hmm.

Let us know in the comments right now if you're smoking a pipe with us or what you're smoking with us. We have somebody smoking Frog Morton, 1999. Well, somebody else said that they're smoking a church warden, and I think they said they were smoking Well, I lost the comment. I lost the comment. I love to learn how to make a good pipe like this imagine Well, that's your life. There's one pipe over and over. It's not as easy as people think You can't simply put a piece of wood on lathe and make a good pipe You have to know what you do it. Let me fire this. Yeah, you go for it somebody else. I'm gonna read

Yeah, go for this somebody else is smoking GLP's Chelsea Chelsea morning. Yes, Chelsea morning I'm not reading what no um I'm pretending to smoke a pipe right now well that's lame so you should smoke a real pipe Barry Cobbler from Briar Works I think that's who makes that bling I'll say no one has ever made me want to give up cigars and only smoke pipes more than you have the way you talk About pipes. I love it. I'm very I would you want to give up cigars. It's not an either or situation We can enjoy both just like being Catholic

Both hands not either or very good I'm so glad you somebody taught him how to break up flake tobacco because I have watched him pack in unbroken flake Tobacco into a pipe multiple times. I notice you use your thumb to tamp your tobacco. Mm-hmm It hurts like hell. Do you not own a tamper? I wanted to impress you out Mmm, isn't that good? Mm-hmm. That is not an aromatic blend. Right. Good to know. I think it made me a convert already.

It might take some getting used to. No, I really like it. The problem with aromatics. I really like it. The problem with the mini aromatics is that it's kind of like a piece of chewing gum. It loses its flavor after the first few seconds. Yes, I've noticed that. Now I noticed that you light your pipe with a lighter

Obviously you don't want to be lighting your pipe with a butane torch and scorching the wood presumably So what kind of light should one be used? Well, this is a pipe specific lighter. It's an IM Chrona made in Japan and It's Soft flame it's not difficult at all. But when you're lighting a pipe, you hold it above the tobacco and use your breath to pull the flame down to the bowl. You don't put it on the bowl. Right. I see. Now what's the difference between that and like a normal Bic lighter? Not much. It's just more fancy. Well, okay, I didn't know that. All right.

Can I borrow that? Yes, of course you can. Thank you, sir. Have you ever used one? No, never. Okay, this'll be interesting. I thought it was gonna be easy. Hmm.

I have no, No, go, yeah. Pull it up, and then strike it. No, yep, you see where you strike it My lord have mercy son and you own a pipe and cigar I mean you can use matches in Bix if you want to well I prefer to, son I got class, I ain't even used it. It's like the cufflinks of the lighter community.

Very good. When did you start smoking a pipe? Oh, I first started technically in graduate school when I was getting my doctorate. Because you know, if you're studying for a PhD in history, you're just supposed to smoke a pipe. Right. That's just part of the deal. Yeah. And so, we had an excellent tobacco shop in Starkville, Mississippi. I went to Mississippi State University, and there was a little tobacco shop there and I walked in there and bought my first pipe and my first

little bag of pipe tobacco and a little lighter and I went back to my small humble graduate student abode and completely failed the entire project. At that time there was no YouTube channel of any significance that was telling you how to smoke a pipe. Right. You just had to figure it out. Yeah. Same thing with me. I was living in Ireland at the time and I liked the idea of a pipe. I'd see the old man with a pipe. It just looked classier than cigarettes. So it was a vein

thing that led me to it. But so I went down to Petersons in Dublin. They got a nice Petersons, that's where they got their pipes to Rizn, I bought one and started learning myself and obviously I didn't learn a great deal, but well enough. You do have a good start, I'll have to say that. But we do have some room for improvement. We can deal with that. Yeah, tell me, tell me. Well you're starting here with that blend, moving out of aromatics. Oh, I see.

I thought you meant you were watching my... No, no, no, no. I don't think there's any right or wrong technique to smoking a pipe. Whatever technique works, whatever gets the flavor there. But I think that many people are discouraged from pipe smoking because they are smoking like a freight train. They're trying to be too quick. When you smoke a pipe, the whole purpose is to slow down.

There's nothing quick or fast or hurried about pipe smoking. Mason Well, there's why does it need to be remedied? Why is that a bad thing? I just I've heard people say you run out of matches. Well, you could. But they are slow smoking competitions around the world. And if you're supposed to be able to smoke the pipe and never relight it and whoever keeps it lit the longest period of time wins the competition. But when you're talking, such as we are now, it's almost impossible to keep it lit. So I have never had any problem with relighting. I don't think that's a big deal. There are bigger problems in the world than being concerned about how many times they have to relight my pipe. So how did you go from buying a pipe and writing, working on your

dissertation to having over, I think you said 200 pipes in your yes. Yes. How did that happen? When did it become an obsession? Well, oh I got married About seven years ago and congrats. I told My wife two or three years after we were married. I said I want to get back into pipe smoking and she said go for it She didn't know what you meant though. Well when I say I want to get back into pipe smoking. And she said, go for it. She didn't know what you meant though. Well. Now when I say I want to get back. Yeah, she didn't realize full extent of the issue.

I will have to, I will have to say that. But she was raised by a daddy. Her daddy was born in Cuba in 1963. So he smoked cigars and had pipes in the house. So it wasn't anything new to her. But what was new to her is my new found infatuation with the pipe smoking lifestyle. And so she has always been encouraging.

And so I started smoking seriously about three or four years ago. And she came to me one day, probably two and a four years ago. And she came to me one day, probably two and a half years ago. She said, why don't you start a pipe shop? I said, do what now? She said, yeah, why don't you start a pipe shop, do an online pipe shop.

And so that's what we did. We started what at the time was called the old Carolina pipe cottage. And we had beautiful success. I mean, we would, we were really doing well. And then the Lord called us to Kentucky. And I was going to continue the shop in Kentucky, but Kentucky tobacco laws are extremely prohibitive, prohibitive. So I didn't do that.

And I was going to give up on the pipe cottage YouTube channel. I was going to give up with, I that. I think I remember seeing that video or the video when you said, why you're back. Yeah, well. So were you making pipes and selling them or? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was a retailer. I was buying stuff from different companies

and selling it online. Nice. And there are other people who do that. I don't need to do that. But I think that the Lord had something much, much bigger in mind with the Pipe Cottage. Because I tried to give it up. I tried to leave social media several times. And I can't.

I can't. Because I love telling people what's on my mind. It doesn't make any difference whether they agree with it or not. I made a video here the other day and somebody made an ugly comment and said, why are all the people agreeing with what you have to say? Are you deleting the negative comments? I think no. No, people are just interested in what we're talking about here. Because we talk about more than simply pipes and pipe tobacco on the pipe cottage. We talk about how the pipe can contribute to a well-lived life.

Tell me about that. Well, there's – we live in an extremely hurried society, and people on – I mean, even driving up here, here I am going 75, 80 mile an hour on the road, and people are passing me going 90, 100 mile an hour on the interstate. And I'm thinking to myself, what are you gonna do when you get there? We have machines, automobiles, and machines all over the place that are intended to help us save time. But what do we do with the time that is saved?

We squander it. We do absolutely nothing worthwhile with it. We have our washing machines, our dishwashers, our automobiles, all of our technology that's supposed to help us live a more comfortable and leisurely lifestyle. But then what do we do with our spare time? We put ourselves in front of another machine. Netflix. A television. Netflix, right. So the pipe is contrary to all of this. I encourage people

when you're smoking a pipe, put the phone down. Don't smoke a pipe and sit there and watch YouTube the whole time. Pontificate. Think. Pray. And so it's a well-known fact in my house that when daddy picks up the pipe, daddy is not to be disturbed. That is my time to think and to pray and to Deal with whatever issues I might be facing whether it's religious in family or In my work, whatever the whatever the case may be I'm gonna fire this man. Yeah, you go for it Yeah

So I want to give some advice to men out there who would like to smoke inside of their houses and they want to convince their wife why this is a good idea. I'll let you know how I did it. So I've heard the difference between pipes and cigars is that women like the smell of pipes. Well, just go with it for now. Some blends, yeah. So I would smoke a pipe. My wife loved that smell.

And I'd smoke a cigar. My wife, I mean, some women obviously love cigars. My wife does not like the smell of cigars. Well, you're just smoking peach fruity to stir. Well, maybe I need to keep doing that. Anyway, so here's what you do. You say, listen, darling, I'm going to need to smoke a cigar inside. So I had a good friend of mine, a Bishop came over, a priest came over. She thought, well, this is fair enough.

We opened up the windows in the side room and we started smoking cigars. And she didn't, she was very polite and lovely and sat with us and laughed and chatted but did not like the smell Once you've done that then the smell of a pipe is very Unoffensive so now I smoke a pipe in my house in a particular room though Yeah, what are you? I do not smoke a pipe in the main part of the house because we have three small children and I just don't want them around the smoke. We don't have a large house but we are converting what once

was a garage into my new study which will house my library. Wonderful. And that will be a smoking room. Lovely. I think that a smoking room is important. It's not simply... I'll have to bring you over to my house because I have this side room in my house and it's windows all around. You can kind of open them up, put the fan on, so it's a nice place to smoke. Well you have to have that. We did not experience winters of such cruelty until we moved to Kentucky. I mean, the winters are cruel. This past Christmas day, it was below zero outside.

I have never in my life, a native-born South Carolinian, ever been in sub-zero temperatures. And I could not smoke my pipe. Sometimes it's just not comfortable to be outside. There has to be a place inside. But most of the time I do smoke on my front porch or I'll smoke on horseback. We have horses, we ride horses. And uh... How do you keep it lit? I guess you're not talking to the horse as much as you're talking to me. No, this is not a Mr. Ed situation. We are not talking to the horse. We are on... It's very reflective. It takes a little bit of

Concentration this might be the best tobacco I've ever smoked in my life Well, I suspect that it would be and it might be only because I've only smoked crap up until now Yes, well you can anything I've got here that you like you can you're free to take it on with you You're very kind because we have much more that we can go through. That's just the first blend that you've tried. Well yeah, I'm excited to try something different. This is great. But yeah, there's an upsurge in pipe smoking. It's becoming more popular among college students now.

And why do you think that is? Because it makes them feel and look smart. I think that's right. I think that's absolutely what it boils down to. It makes them feel and look smart. I think that's right. I think that's absolutely what it boils down to. It makes them feel and look smart. I don't know how to phrase this yet so that it's theologically accurate, but I'm a big fan, I'll say it tentatively, of allowing our lesser sins to prevent us from greater sins. What I mean is just like you're saying, somebody wants to look smart and so they end up doing something beautiful like this. Somebody wants to be the kind of person who reads Dostoevsky or Tolkien.

And they want to do it because they want people to think something of them. And they do it. But they end up loving it. Do you see what I mean? Yeah. Well, don't be afraid if the only reason you want to smoke a pipe is because you think it looks cool is what you're saying. Right, right, right. Well, one of the things that a lot of people in my life, one of the things that's kept people from the pipe is this religious taboo that follows many

Protestant circles. You can't use tobacco. It's a sin. Mason Hickman Is this why you're becoming Catholic? You can tell me. Wally Johnson No, no, not entirely. But I learned after I got married that you can spend the rest of your life trying to please absolutely everybody else and miss out on the blessings that God has given us. I did a video with Malcolm Geit a couple of months ago. You know who he is? Malcolm Gait is an Anglican priest and he's a poet. One of the most beautiful Christian poets. I mean his poetry is phenomenal and he has written

a couple of poems about pipe smoking. Well I think I've seen this fellow on YouTube. You probably have. Is this the fellow who walks into his study and says come on, I love that fellow. That's Malcolm Gait. Oh wow, g'day Malcolm, if you're watching. Yes and he um. Oh I love his videos. So he's a major C.S. Lewis aficionado. He got into pipe smoking because of Tolkien as a matter of fact. He made a video about that and his most famous pipe poem is, smoke rings from my pipe. Would you mind looking that up? Smoke rings from my pipe poem. Yeah. Hey, real quick though. Also, Mrs. Harrelson is watching and wants you to know that your oldest son is concerned with the size of Matt's pipe.

Concerned. Yeah. Not humored by. Yes, yes. Well, I do not have a pipe that is quite of that caliber in my own. How many pipes did you bring? Because I can dump this out and use it again, can't I? Yes. You keep using the same one. It's not getting too hot. No, as long as it's not getting too hot. I mean, there are no rules.

It's your pipe. You can do with it what you wish. All right. I found the poem. You want me to read it? Yeah, unless it's eight pages long. You can do with it what you wish. All right. I found the poem. You want me to read it? Yeah. Unless it's eight pages long. Yeah. It's poor stanzas.

Go for it, but do it in your best, like dramatic accent. English exam. If possible. English. I don't know how good my English is. All the day longs weariness is done. I'm free at last to do just as I will take out my pipe admire the setting sun Practice the art of simply sitting still hmm. Thank God. I have this briar bowl to fill

I leave the world with all its hopeless pipe its pressures And it's ever ringing till and let it go in smoke rings from my pipe The hustle and the bustle, these I shun. The tasks that trouble and the cares that kill. The false idea that there is a race to run. Oh, the pushing of that weary stone uphill. The wretched iPhones, all insistent trill. Wingers and wingers, each their own gripe, I pack them in tobacco leaves until they're

blown away in smoke rings from my pipe. And then at last my real work is begun. My chance to chant, to exercise the skill of summoning the muses one by one, to meet me in their temple, touch my quill. I have a pen, but quills are better still, and when the soul is full and the time is ripe, I kindle the fiery poetry that will, I kindle the fiery poetry that will, breathe and expand the smoke rings from my pipe. Prince I have done with grinding at the mill. These pretty petty pelting tyrants aren't my type. So lift me up and set me on a hill.

A free man blowing smoke rings from his pipe. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Does he live in England? Yes. I think you would say hello to him for me. I will indeed. He would be a wonderful person to have on your rock show. Absolutely honored, yeah. And one of the things that I learned from Malcolm Gait is that we need to not pay so much attention to what the medical doctors think we should be doing

when it comes to pipe smoking. There's a great difference between, of course everybody knows this, what the medical doctors think we should be doing when it comes to pipe smoking. There's a great difference between, of course everybody knows this, who smokes a pipe, between cigarette smoking and pipes and cigars. But in the interview I did with him, he told a story about his medical doctor encouraging him not to smoke his pipe for a season because he was going through some medical issues. And then she found the video on his channel of him reciting that poem that you just heard. And so when he next went to visit his doctor, she said, off the record, I think this pipe

does you far more good psychologically than any harm it could do to you physically. And so that's the point of pipe smoking. It is about the blend. It's about the piece of art that is – I have a memory behind every pipe I have. I have a story behind it. I know where I received it. If I was smoking that pipe in good conversation with friends or family, I remember those moments. That pipe helps me to remember that conversation and that part of life.

In a world that is intensely presentist and futuristic, anything that can teach us to slow down and to simply remember the joys of our past. That is an activity worth our time. Okay. Yeah, so the reason I buy different types of cigars is I like the different flavor profile, different sizes, right? But the reason one buys different pipes is not for that reason. It's like you're saying.

When you smoke the cigar, the cigar is. Yeah, there's nothing left of it but that pipe always has a Pipe will last a lifetime and beyond if it's made. Well it will my my sons will inherit my pipes and Whether they want to or not whether their house is big enough or not. I want to or not, whether their house is big enough or not. I pray, I pray that they will probably, actually my son, he has two little corn cob pipes that I gave him and he keeps them in his bedroom. My oldest boy is four years old and he keeps his two little corn cob pipes on his little kia

desk in his bedroom and he does not allow his sister to touch his pipes. Very nice. his in his bedroom and he does not allow his sister to touch his pipes. Very nice. Those were his pipes given to him from daddy and one day I hope to be able to enjoy a bowl with my son but we're not quite there yet. Right, not at four. Give me a few years. Yeah, yeah, maybe 12, 13.

What's your general response to people who say that smoking tobacco is bad for you therefore you shouldn't be doing it? You touched on it, but... Well, I would first want to figure out where the evidence is, scientifically, that actually proves that smoking a pipe is bad for you. There's no such thing as pipe smoking in Scripture. What Scripture teaches is temperance, and this goes with all things, I would say. And in case you're unaware, the catechism of the Catholic church condemns the abuse of alcohol. Yes. Of tobacco. Not the use of it.

Oh yes. I'm very much familiar with that. First thing I checked. As I found myself drifting towards Rome. I posted a photograph on Instagram not too long ago of one of my pipes Situated next to the catechism a hard copy of the catechism and one of my followers said you're already Reading the catechism. You are really going in full force. I said well sir That's what you do when you're Catholic you read the catechism but yes that but but I think that Particularly among But yes, but I think that particularly among Protestants, there's this notion that our Christianity is defined more by what we do not do rather than what we ought to do, if

that makes any sense. Yeah. We don't do this, we don't do that. Therefore we're good righteous people. But what are you doing with the time that you have? What are you doing? Are you actively involved in some kind of ministry that's helping other people? Or do you not do this or not do that so you can show up on Sunday morning and people can see just how holy and righteous you think you are? Also if it's always immoral

to enjoy things that are unhealthy, then you're going to have to cut out a lot of things like high fructose corn syrup and chocolate cake and even cane sugar. Yeah, well, I have known some pretty fat preachers in my life who can't hardly get behind the pulpit, but they'll get back there and preach against the sin of alcohol and tobacco. And they can't pull their big old belly away from the table after they get done preaching on Sunday morning. I think that there's a, you have to have a well rounded balanced life. I mean, too much of

too much tobacco. I mean, I don't smoke all day long. I'm not like Tolkien. I don't wake up and say, what's the quote? I don't know what you want to look this up. I think Tolkien said every, every morning I wake up and think, hurrah, another 24 hours of smoking. Although I don't know how he sleeps if it's 24 hours. Anyway, right. I don't smoke all day. I may have two pipes during the day and that's it. Let's not be that many. Yeah. I don't have time for more than that. Did you talk with Jimmy Aiken about his pipe smoking? No. He's a big pipe smoker.

He loves it. Jimmy Aiken reached out to me via email after I made the video announcing my interest in converting to Catholicism. And he is a gracious and humble man. Very much so, yeah. And he encouraged me to reach out to him. So we've been talking about different things, but not pipe smoking, not yet. I'm looking forward to that conversation.

But I think focusing on pipes, actually, you posted about this live stream on your Instagram and your YouTube not long before we went live. And one of the comments, somebody made a comment and said, oh, this is sinful. This is sinful. Can't imagine that you're making a video about tobacco use. I mean, is this all the, is it, this is the most important thing that we have to talk

about. Is this the most important thing that we can debate? It seems nonsense to me. It seems trivial. I'm not worried about pipe smoking leading me to an early death. In fact, if anything, I would be glad for pipe smoking to prevent the stress in my life that will in fact kill you. Stress is one of the biggest killers in modern American society.

Preach. Matt McCloskey, our cigar store manager is out there. He has this same speech he gives to me regularly. If you don't mind, I may have a slurp of this Blanton's that you have. You can have all of it. Are you familiar with Chesterton's quote on pipe smoking and the morality of it? Go for it. To have a horror of tobacco is not to have an abstract

standard of right, but exactly the opposite. It is to have no standard of right, whatever, and to make certain local likes and dislikes as a substitute. Nobody who has an abstract standard of right and wrong can possibly think it wrong to smoke a cigar. It is vague. It is a vague sentimental notion that certain habits were not suitable to the old log cabin or the old hometown. It has a vague utilitarian notion that certain habits are not directly useful in the new amalgamated stores or the new financial gambling hell. One of them, John Crowe Ransom, a writer from Vanderbilt

University said this years ago in 1930, he said one of the greatest faults of modern society is salesmanship. Trying to convince somebody that they need to buy a thing that they can actually live without. And the cigarette is a product of modern industrial society. It is a product that people crave. It's a moneymaker. There is far more money made off people smoking cigarettes and smoking pipes and tobacco. And I think that we need to have that distinction in mind.

Products of corporate industrialized America beginning in the early 20th century moving to now, we need to be careful about some of those products. Because a cigarette, well, and I've been, I've received a lot of criticism on the Pipe Cottage channel for criticizing cigarette smoking. I don't like cigarette smoking. I don't like being around it. I think it smells terrible and I just It's repulsive to me

But at the same time I have to respect somebody's decision if they want to do that I mean, that's that it's not my particular life But I'm attracted to people who smoke pipes because you don't pick up a pipe unless you've put some thought behind it. Especially not one this size. Yes. Actually it's a lack of thought that led to the size of this pipe. So what about um does anybody else in your family smoke pipes or is it just you? No my my dad was in the navy and when he was in the navy I guess he started smoking a pipe and I remember finding his pipe as a small child. He didn't didn't smoke anymore. He only smoked, he'd roll his own tobacco and smoke cigarettes. But I remember seeing that and thinking what a beautiful thing. What a mysterious thing. What is this thing? And there was something about it that I was

drawn to, but I never saw him smoke one. Do you have many people who follow your content who are pipe smokers? I don't know. I suspect so. I think one of the reasons our cigar lounge, you'll find just as many cigar smokers as you will pipe smokers, is because of the Catholic influence. It's because of the English literary tradition. The writers, the Tolkien's and the others. So yours, you've been, I suspect a lot of people do smoke pipes. Well, I would think so. There's a little bit of crossover.

Of course, your audience is much, much, much larger than mine, but there is, the people who are watching me, many of them know who you are. And of course they're pipe smokers. And so they're in the thousands. And so it's not, it's not a small number. There are many many people who are smoking pipes who are listening to your content Have you ever had a pipe centric episode before I did one episode for our local supporters? Only and it was me and a priest and we just talked about the difference between pipes and cigars, but this is it No, this is the only pipe-centric interview I've done. Oh good. Well I feel honored.

All right, this was lovely. So what do you think? Are you putting that down to relight it? No, I'm not going to film. I already know what all these blends taste like. I'm not gonna throw this out. This tobacco here is rare. You can't find that tin just anywhere. So I'm gonna probably smoke this the entire time unless we really get carried away and need to fill up a second bowl. But I've got an aromatic here that I've never had. Taste of temptation. Yeah, it doesn't look respectable, does it? It's a cherry blend. Oh, I see. So why did you bring this one if you are against? Well, I figured, you know, it's not just me, other people here are smoking pipes. You haven't even opened it, may I? No, we opened it up. That's from the Sutliff

Tobacco Company out of Richmond, Virginia. That is beautiful. I mean, it just smells like a bowl of cherries. You'd hate it. Yeah, probably. I would love it. Yeah. Well, you can take it all. But this, this, if I had to fill up another bowl,

it'd probably be Carolina Red Flake. This is nothing but pure North Carolina Red Virginia tobacco. There's no other kind of leaf put in it. No burley, no oriental, no toppings, nothing. This is the raw tobacco straight out the field, son. Smell how? It smells like, well, you tell me what you think it smells like.

I'm always bad at this. I know what cigars I like. I can't tell you why I like them. You know, I don't believe I'd have told it. There's a fruit. There's a fruit. There's a fruit kind of smell to it. You tell me, you see, as soon as you tell me, I'll know what it is. Most people describe a straight red Virginia like that as a hay.

It smells like a fresh cut. I got it immediately. Yeah, I don't know if it's just a yes. It smells like a fresh cut hay field. I get it immediately. Yeah, I don't know if it's just the power of suggestion or what. Baked bread. Yes. Oh my goodness. Absolutely. That's the beauty of a straight red Virginia blend. See our cigar manager, Matt McCloskey, is very good at this. So I'll pick up a cigar and I'm like, I like it.

I think it tastes good. And he'll take it and he'll go, I'm getting wasabi. I'm like, what? And then I'll get it. Yeah, I get that. It was soy sauce. Remember that one Cuban we smoked? But this is pretty imminent. McClellan Tobacco Company, they were famous for their straight Virginia blends. And they were able to source Virginia tobacco from North Carolina. They evidently had relationships with individual farmers. And the thing about both cigar tobacco and pipe tobacco, particularly when you're dealing

with straight blends like this, you can taste a difference from one farm to the next, from one part of the country to the next, from one part of the world to the next. The sole chemistry has a great deal to do with the flavor profile. That's why smoking a pipe is so interesting. When I smoke a cigar, I can't necessarily tell all of the nuanced flavors in it. I mean, I go to read some of these reviews of cigars

that people have online and say, well, the first third tasted like- You think they're making it up, don't you? Yes. I don't think they are, but I think that. The first third tasted like You think they're making it up don't you? I don't think they are but I think that The first third tasted like maple syrup and the second third tasted like I don't know and a campfire the second third was like a piece of carrot cake I don't know how people figure all this out

I fire up a cigar and if it's a Maduro wrapper or a Connecticut wrapper, I can tell a difference. All I know is I like the dark, greasy kind. Where I put my lips on, I can taste it immediately. I also like a well-constructed cigar. I don't like any kind of mush going on. I like a nice, hard cigar. Pipe tobacco is a different world. There is some crossover between cigar smoking and pipe smoking, but with pipe smoking,

you really do get a difference in those flavors. So do you think you could ever make the switch from pipes to cigars entirely? Or not entirely, but prominently so that you smoke cigars more than pipes? No, no, no, no, no. Why in the world would I ever want to do anything like that? Well, the reason I'm asking is I-

That would be like moving from the mountains of Southeast Kentucky to New York City. I don't want to do that. Yeah, see, I'm enjoying this very much. I'm not offending your New York people. I'm just saying. I am enjoying this very much, but I don't think I could ever get into this full time. No- There's almost like situations in which a pipe is called for. I'm just saying. I'm enjoying this very much, but I don't think I could ever get into this full time. No.

There's almost like situations in which a pipe is called for. I especially like smoking a pipe in the fall. I especially like smoking a pipe when I'm on my own, reading a book. As you say, it's a more contemplative activity. You have to keep it lit, whereas a cigar you can put down for five, ten minutes, and if it's a good cigar, it'll still be lit. You can still do that with a pipe. Notice, if you will, I have had this pipe sitting down here and

hadn't been smoking it for some time. You have not. I can be very surprised if it's, it's not going to be lit again. It doesn't make any difference whether it's lit. With a cigar, granted, you don't want to have to keep relighting that cigar over and over again. Cause you have to kind of ash it a bit. Yes. With a pipe, it makes absolutely no difference. I can put that pipe down

in a tray at home and pick it up the next morning and it'll taste the same way. Okay. So it doesn't make any difference whether you smoke all of the bowl at one sitting or not. That's the whole point of leisure, you understand? You don't need to be rushed. If you can't finish the whole bowl in 30 minutes, well who cares? Go on do something else. Part of what I like about a cigar is it's a commitment. That if I get a nice cigar, I have to sit down for at least an hour to enjoy that. Well, I'm committed to this pipe, but it don't mean I got to be committed to it over

the next hour. Right. You know what I mean? Can you pass me your lighter again? Yeah. I'll see if I'll do a better chance a second time. Thank you. You didn't bring any cigar to smoke? I didn't, sorry. So you have got to rely on the pipe. I have to. No, I'm enjoying it very much. Don't get me wrong.

I think part of why I like this cigar is honestly just very simply putting my lips on the tobacco. It's a different experience. Well, I put my lips on this stem right here. Now that's an acrylic stem or what? It's an acrylic stem. All right, and so what's, what else, what other kind of stems do they have? Well, you got vulcanite, which is rubber,

and that's what pipes were made out, stems were made out of for a long, long time. The problem got vulcanite, which is rubber, and that's what pipes were made out of, stems were made out of for a long, long time. The problem with vulcanite stems is that if you keep them in the sun too long, you don't keep them clean on the inside and the outside, they'll oxidise over time. They'll have this ugly green hue that comes on them. They can be restored. I do not prefer vulcanite stems. I prefer acrylic.

Have you ever thought about making your own pipes? Oh, many times. Many, many times I've thought about making my own pipes. But I'm not at the point where I can focus on that. That takes time. It takes focus. Alright. Very good. So what's your first pipe of the day? See, for me, I usually wake up, I'll often work out, I'll go down to my cigar lounge and I'll have a cigar with my coffee. That's usually my morning routine and I love it very much. Well usually I wake up and have coffee, listen to my youngins yell and run around the house for a while and take care of whatever reading or work I need to do for my university job and then come noon I'll

usually pour me a glass of Kentucky bourbon and then I'll eat dinner. Now that's not lunch in Southern culture. That is dinner. Supper time comes later on in the evening just so we're not confused. Yeah, yeah. So that's usually when you'll have your first pipe at lunch. Yes, I'll have it after I have that meal. And then I don't like to smoke a pipe before I have a meal. Okay. But you don't like it. Yeah, yeah.

Because some blends have a little bit more nicotine content. And I never like to smoke a cigar without a meal beforehand. That's my favorite. I don't eat till about two or three every day and I have a cigar and a black coffee in the morning. So you work out every morning? Not every morning, every three days or so. You lift weights and that sort of thing?

Yeah. I tried that for a while. My arms got to be so, they got to be rather thick. And my wife told me, she said, I don't like their look. So I dwindled it down a little bit. The only exercise I do now is I take about a 45-minute walk across my farm every day. And do you know what lunting is? No.

Okay. Lunting is, there's actually a Lunting society. It's the act of walking and smoking a pipe at the same time. Now, I've seen people do it. I admire it. I don't know if I could enjoy it. Well, yeah, I don't enjoy it either, but I just thought it'd be interesting to tell you what Lunting is. No, I've tried. I have tried many times to do that. But I can ride a horse and ride a pipe, that's not just saying.

For those who are watching right now and they would like to get into pipe smoking or they've only just gotten to pipe smoking, what are some maybe mistakes you see people making when they first start smoking a pipe? Maybe it is, as you just said, the fear of it going out. When you're like, no, don't be afraid, it's okay. Worse things can happen.

Don't worry too much about how you pack it. But what are some things you see people doing that you think? Well, the first thing is you pack it too tight. There's almost an art. And I have had people come on my channel when I'm smoking a pipe and trying to talk and do a video at the same time.

And they'll make some stupid comment like you need to learn how to properly keep your pipe lit. It takes years of practice. That's a bunch of hogwash. No, it does not. You can't keep a pipe lit while you're talking at the same time. That defeats the whole purpose. You're not supposed to be talking and talking and talking while smoking a pipe anyway. So this is almost an oxymoron. But don't pack it too tight and don't be afraid to relight it. There's a comfortable position between you don't want it to be packed too tight and you don't want it to be too loose. I pay attention to the draw.

I pull air through the stem. Right. And if it's too loose, I can tell it. It's just too free. The air comes through too freely. So mine was coming in too freely there, so I tamped it down a bit. Is that what you'd do? Yes. Well, not when I'm first packing the pipe. No, no. But about halfway through. It started to get a lot, yeah. But when you're tamping the pipe, you don't want to tamp too hard. You just barely let the weight of that tamper hit the top of that tobacco. Because all you're doing is trying to push that fire, that heat, a little bit lower down so it meets the tobacco that hasn't been burned yet. We're getting more scientific than what I originally anticipated.

What about seasoning a pipe? People talk about seasoning a pipe. I've heard people say, well, you want to kind of smoke it lower the first time. But then I spoke to a fella in Italy who smoked cigars. He said, that doesn't matter. But he said, what matters is that you smoke it down to the bottom all the time so that it's evenly seasoned throughout. I have never paid any attention to all that nonsense. I don't, you season the pipe by smoking the thing. Does it make any difference how far you have the smoke, the tobacco going? I've never paid any attention to that. Just smoke it. Okay. If you want to fill it up all the way to the top of the bowl and fill it on that, that. Here's a question. I've smoked this

almost to the bottom. Is it okay to take fresh tobacco and put it on the already burning? Oh no. You see? All right. Good. Why not? No, don't do that. Then to relight? Why not? You need to clean the doddle out of the bottom of the bowl before you relight it. Okay. And if you want to use the same pipe for a different blend, immediately after you smoke one blend, you need to clean it out because there's a lot of moisture that builds up in the bottom of that bowl. Yeah. And there's a lot of talk these days about ghosting pipes.

You know what that means? No. Well, some blends, technically some people say, leave a flavor profile in the wood itself. And so if you put an aromatic blend in a bowl and then next you wanna put an English or a Virginia blend in it, you may be able to taste some of the aromatic from your previous smoke. Thanks, Thurster.

may be able to taste some of the aromatic from your previous smoke. Thanks, Thuza. There's only one type of pipe tobacco I've ever had that problem with, and it is a couple of blends that have deer tongue in them. Say that again for the people in the back. I figured this was going to be something that needed to be explained. Deer tongue, not literally deer tongue. It's a plant that's grown in the south, and it has a licorice flavor to it. And pipe tobacco in the 19th century was oftentimes flavored by deer tongue, this plant.

If you have deer tongue in your pipe, it's little green pieces. It looks rather odd. It looks like it doesn't belong there. But at the end of the day, it doesn't. But if you have deer tongue in your blend, that most definitely will ghost a pipe. Ah, I see. Cornell and Dio out of South Carolina produces a blend entitled The Gentleman Collar. And it has deer tongue in it. It tastes good, but you sure better have a dedicated one pipe to that blend.

Anything else I can help you with? What about tapping your pipe? I see people smoking a pipe and they bang it on a piece of wood to get the... Oh, that's sacrilegious. That is sacrilegious. Never, never, never take your pipe and bang it up against any type of hard object to get the ashes out. No, don't be lazy.

Take the pipe tool. You know, we have pipe tools for a reason. Take the spoon and pull the doddle out of the bottom of the bowl. And what I do is I'll clean it with a pipe cleaner, take it through the shank, and I'll clean the stem and the shank. And I'll take a paper towel and I will clean the inside of the bowl every time. But you never, never separate the stem from the shank if the pipe is hot. Right, yes.

But I hardly ever take, when I first started smoking a pipe, I would take the shank away from the stem every time to clean it. Never hardly do that now. No. I just leave the stem on it, shove the pipe cleaner through there. Gotcha. Yeah. And one of the hallmarks of a well-made pipe is you can take that pipe cleaner... The way you're laughing, I'm not sure what's going on. I don't want you to explain it to me. Yeah. You can take that pipe cleaner and you can shove that thing all the way in.

Okay. You see that right there? Yeah. Oh, I see it. And then you just whoop it back out. If you don't have a well-made pipe, you can't push it in and out like that. It won't work. Right. Just saying. That's fantastic. Yeah, it is.

Well, just so everybody knows, we're doing a big there's a huge Tolkien conference taking place over the next few days here in Steubenville, Ohio at Franciscan and we're going to be doing a massive Hobbit party at our cigar lounge here on 4th Street So if you'd like to come you can meet the two of us will be smoking pipes You'll be playing the banjo. So if you live anywhere near Steubenville Matt, what time does it start Friday night? 745 my son will be dressed up like a hobbit playing the banjo, so if you live anywhere near Steubenville. Matt, what time does it start, Friday night? 7.45. 7.45. My son will be dressed up like a hobbit. With no shoes.

With no shoes. He never wears shoes anyway. I can never- Does he have hairy feet? He does. I'm wondering how we can remedy that. That's gonna be real fun. Yeah, we have some of the top Tolkien and Lewis scholars in the world in Steubenville this weekend. Did you get to get in touch with the fellows at Steubenville or at Franciscan, I mean?

I don't know anybody at Franciscan. So we'll just show up tomorrow? Yes. Good. I mean, I registered for the conference, but I don't know anybody at Franciscan University. I'll introduce you to some wonderful folks. I'm sure it doesn't sound like you'd have trouble meeting people, but... No, I'd be happy to talk with them.

And are there any pipe-smoking faculty members? There's bound to be, yes. Indeed. I can't think of anyone, but I mean, if they're Tolkien readers, they've got to be pipe-smokers, don't they? I think that's part of it. Yes, I would imagine so. If not, then they're doing a great disservice to the legacy

of the man Well, here's what I want to do. I'm gonna take a break and when we come back We're gonna talk about how you became introduced to Catholicism how you started to discern it and where you are right now Sound good, and I'm also gonna refill this bowl This clip was sponsored by hello and I have to say it's very easy to promote these guys because their app is probably the best app I've ever used, not just Catholic wise but just all apps ever. If you want to grow in your prayer life, if you want to learn how to meditate, if you want to listen to excellent Catholic audiobooks, you can't go past Hallow. Go to Hallow.com slash Matt, sign up over there and you will get access to the entire app for free for three whole months. So what are you good to lose?

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something like this and growing in our love of scripture. So again, stpaulcenter.com slash Matt go sign up today, you get two weeks for free. If you don't think it's worth it after that time, cancel it, you won't be charged a cent, but I think you'll be really impressed with what you see. Any sinner is capable of being a great sinner. The secret therefore of character development is the realization of this power that there is in each and every one of us, for good and for evil. The good Lord would have us lay hold of what is worst in ourselves. Do not think that people who have virtue and kindness and other great talents just came by these things naturally. They had to work at them very hard. Any sinner is capable of being a great saint, and any saint is also capable of being a great sinner, a great sinner, a great sinner, a great sinner.

I'm on doctored up with a little moment. Now that I know you. Well you're back so. Ah we are back. It is good. Glory to Jesus Christ. Amen. You know there are difficult things going on in the world. There's a lot of confusion. There's a lot of craziness.

But there are still good things. Yes. There's still bourbon on the back porch. Yes. There's still friendships. Right? Yes. And it's worth fighting for. That's right. Good. Glad we agree. I wasn't sure if we're gonna get to argue about that. Well, I can't think of anything we could argue about. Oh, you told me not to spin around on the chair. Sorry. Now, tell me, should I try taste of temptation and lose

respect for myself and your respect, or should I try? Well, that's why I gave it to you I don't want to take you back home. It smells so good. I am going to be firing up a bowl in my 1986 Dunhill and I have Carolina Red Flake in it. I might try that if you don't mind you go ahead. Thank you very much Do you my guest cons are Do you have any ice? Down there is it's all it's all melted. You have ice behind you. Yes Look up

Thank you Well, I'm really excited to learn about your journey towards the Catholic Church. I Have a lot of people who watch the show who are beautiful Protestants who we can learn a great deal from as Catholics and they tell me they're converting to Catholicism and I'd love to learn about how you Obviously, you've been aware of Catholicism probably for most of your life But when did it become a live option for you about three months ago? What happened just to be very frank? Yeah

ago. What happened? Just to be very frank, I'm not going to be able to smoke that right now. I need to talk. Well, I'll pack a wine and I'll start smoking. All right. Good. Good. At least one of us needs to be smoking a pipe. So my PhD is in Southern history, but it's primarily Southern intellectual and cultural history. Is there one passing me that? Yes. And when you cannot study the history of the American South, particularly Southern literature, without encountering important Catholic writers such as Flannery O'Connor, Walker Percy, and many others besides, Alan Tate, Caroline Gordon, many wonderful Catholic writers. One of my best friends in graduate school

was a native from Poland, and he was a cradle Catholic, but a very, very devout, very devout Catholic. And most of the scholars who I've known in graduate school and in the history profession, the people who I've been drawn to for the past 15 years have had some history with Catholicism. And the question occurred to me over this past summer, if somebody were to ask why I am Protestant and not Catholic, how would I answer that question? And so I couldn't come up with a good answer.

I mean, just no particular reason for this question to enter my mind. I was just going about my business one particular day, and I think it was more or less, I think it was actually the Holy Spirit of God. And just the question enters my mind, why are you not Catholic? How can you explain that? So I began to read. It troubled me. The question troubled me significantly, actually.

What were you reading? Well, I was reading some Peter Kreif stuff, I think 40 Reasons Why I'm a Catholic I think is the title of that small book he has. And I didn't even know who he was until this summer. I've been reading GK Chesterton for over a decade. Were you aware he was Catholic? Oh absolutely, absolutely. And that's why I never read his Catholic works.

I read most everything else that Chesterton wrote, but I never read his works on Catholicism until this summer. I was reading, I've of course read C.S. Lewis years ago in graduate school, Mere Christianity, the Screwtape Letters, the Abolition of Man, all of these sorts of things. Now not a Catholic obviously, but closer to Catholicism than many Protestants. If he had lived longer he may have done so. But Tolkien of course, I have been exposed to Tolkien for many, many years. Actually the interesting thing about it is many Protestant friends of mine for years have always been infatuated with Tolkien's literature.

So I began to read these people, and then I picked up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. And I began to read the Catechism, because I like to go to the, you know, primary source information. YouTube videos are good, but it's better. May I ask, what was your first experience after reading the Catechism? What was your, what did you think about it? What was your impression? My immediate reaction from the beginning until the end was, why did I not know about this earlier? Why has no one told me about this? When I was raised as a boy, I was raised in a Pentecostal home, and I was actually an ordained minister in the Church of God denomination, which is headquartered in Cleveland, Tennessee.

And both sides of my family were Pentecostal. And so when I was coming up as a boy, nobody ever talked about Catholicism. The only time I ever heard my grandma talk about Catholicism, and she was telling me about an old Kent meeting revival that she went to in the 1970s. And there was a woman went down to the altar during one of the evening services, and grandma went up and talked to her, and she said, �My dear lady, are you saved?� And she said, �No, I'm Catholic.� And I thought, something just sounds a bit off with this. So that encapsulates the way my family approached Catholicism. It was never discussed in our home, never.

Mason- So as you began your journey reading Catholicism, did you have Catholics that you were talking to? Do you? Do you? Dixon- Yes, yes. I think he wouldn't mind me mentioning his name, Dr. Bill Wilson, who is a professor at the University of Virginia. I think he's retired now. I've known Bill for 15 years at least, and his gentlemanly attitude, his humility, the grace and his teachable spirit,

all of these things that he has displayed Throughout my relationship with him over the years has been just phenomenal. It's been supernatural actually and so I reached out to him and I said Bill we've not spoken in several years and I told him I was thinking about joining the Catholic Church and he was Not surprised. He was was not surprised. He was actually elated. He was actually elated. So I was talking to him. Other than that, no, no. This has been almost an exclusive intellectual journey. I was talking to my best friend Patrick See. from Virginia, who is actually here with us this evening. And he and I, other than my wife, he's the only person I talk to every

day. And so if he and I were to go back through our text messages to one another over the past three or four months, it would tell you the story that you're asking. But I will simply say that I went on intellectual curiosity. Intellectual curiosity brought me to the Catholic Church. Actually, I think I shared this with you earlier today, but I want to share it with your audience. Yesterday as I was coming up here, I stopped by the post office. I have a post office box for Pipe Cottage viewers who want to send stuff to us. We have wonderful, wonderful people who follow our channel.

I received a letter from a gentleman who's been watching my content for over a year. He admitted to me in this letter that he's been praying for over a year and he admitted to me in this letter That he's been praying for over a year that God would bring me into the Catholic Church. He actually said to his wife And he told me this in the letter. He said I told my wife a year ago that Alan Harrelson is going to think himself into the Catholic Church And when he saw the video on my channel where I made it public that my wife and I were joining the Catholic Church, he said he just fell out of his chair. He couldn't believe it. And so there have been people that I have never met who have been praying that I join the church. And so through reading the Catechism,

through reading Chesterton and in Crave to many other people, through your information, actually you've had some excellent interviews on your channel that have brought people to the church. and particularly your interviews with Scott Hahn. I just finished reading Scott Hahn's book Rome Sweet Home I think last week, but I didn't receive any pushback from my wife. Actually, I didn't realize how much of a blessing this was. Yeah, after reading that book it's difficult for some people. Well, not only reading that book, but when I made that video and posted it on the Pipe Cottage channel about my conversion to Catholicism. What were you expecting, I suppose, before you

tell me the reaction? I was expecting, I didn't know what to expect. I just wanted to be honest with people. I wanted to be honest. Was it hard to make the announcement? No, I was eager to do it. It wasn't hard to do it. It was hard to tell my family, but it wasn't hard to make the announcement. I want more Jesus in my life, and I want the fullness of Christ, and I have learned that that cannot happen outside of the Catholic Church, not in the way that I'm seeking. I have been to Presbyterian churches, Methodist.

My wife and I have tried to be so many different brands of Protestant. But coming to the Catholic Church really does feel like coming home. This is a cliché. This is what people say often. But it feels like coming home. It feels like somebody has kept the light on for you. Somebody has been waiting for you the whole time. Darrell Bock Wow. Reg Grant And I'm 37 years old and just now discovering

that Christianity did not begin in the 16th century with the Protestant Reformation. Now the only real problem and the real criticism that we've received is from my family, my parents. I want to be very transparent and real about that, because I think that many people who are listening to your content are probably in a similar situation. They either they're in the Catholic Church

or they're coming from a Protestant background and they're pondering what it would be like to make that conversion to Catholicism. I know that I've probably received two to three hundred emails and private messages over the past two weeks since I made it public that we were very much interested in joining the church. 90% of those letters are from either priests, people who have been in the church for some time, or Protestants who have converted to Catholicism themselves. You're gonna get a ton more boy after today. Only a small fraction of them have been people who said, you're following the Church of

Satan. You're following the Church of Satan. I was told by people who I trusted, if you make it public, if you tell people you're converting to Catholicism, get ready for the criticism. And buddy, has it evermore been Been real and so if you what my wife and I I don't show her Most of the criticism I share with her. Yeah, the good material I mean in a way you have to respect those close to you who express their concern They genuinely believe you're making a bad decision and they love you enough to tell you that's different to a nasty YouTube comment

You understand but people close to you. They're actually concerned that you're making a terrible this well I will share with you my parents response and Just it may help somebody I hope and pray it will and maybe somebody can help me figure out how to reach Reconciliation at this point. This is all new. This is fresh. This is very fresh, very raw. Mason- Just those watching who are just tuning in. How raw? How fresh? Jones- Like a week ago. Like a week ago. We are just, for the proper background, what people need

to know, we are going through the RCA program right now, and we hope to be confirmed by Christmas. Praise God. And so we are eager for that. I'm eager to participate in the Eucharist. Can I come? Oh absolutely. Will you invite me? Absolutely. Send me a text. Tell me where it will be. Oh don't you fool with me now. You want to come. I'm going to send you an invitation. I'll be honored. But I am eager to accept and participate in the Eucharist as a confirmed Catholic. I mean, I want it, because I want Christ in His fullness. So I told my parents about this maybe a week ago, and my daddy's response was, you've been deceived.

You've been deceived. And I respect my daddy highly. My daddy is an extremely wise man. And he did his job in raising my sister and I in a godly household. He taught us right from wrong. He's got a good head on his shoulders. And he and mama have been married for 40 years. And they, mama wasn't able to have any more than two children, but God has allowed me

to be raised in a household that was beautiful. I have no regrets. I have absolutely no regrets and no... Complaints. Complaints, right, of the love and the generosity that my parents showed us as children. So it was hard to tell daddy. I told him in a text message, daddy's not big on telephone calls, he likes emails or text messages. Get to the point. Right. And so I told him and he said, you're following a false religion, you've been deceived. And his reservations were that Catholics worship Mary, you know, typical Protestant, and that

the Eucharist is blasphemy. Typical, typical Protestant challenges. And so I contacted Jimmy Aiken, because Jimmy Aiken reached out to me via email. I told him about you. I think that's why he reached out. Good, good. I'm glad, actually, because – and I shared portions of Daddy's response with Jimmy, and he wrote an extensive email back.

God bless him. And I shared that email with Daddy, and I have yet to receive a response. But I'm hoping and praying that reconciliation will happen, because here's the thing. One of the reasons, one of the things that helped me to get past this notion of Mariology, that's not what you're taught in the Protestant church. Mary is the mother of God, is our mother, is not something that's taught in the Protestant church, obviously. But Christ told us to honor our Father

and our Mother. That's one of the, you know, Ten Commandments. It's pretty serious. You honor your Father and your Mother. And if Mary is the Mother of God, the Mother of Christ, if He's going to honor her, He has honored her. And if we are called to be like Christ, then it is my responsibility to honor her at the same time. But I have my own earthly mother and father, and God has called me to honor them too. The most difficult thing in making the decision to convert to Catholicism is this divide that has now been created between me and my parents. I didn't want that, but I knew it would probably happen. But I have no regrets or complaints with joining the Catholic Church. I went to my first mass

actually. You're talking about really, really baby Catholic here. When's the first? This is what's wonderful. You show up in Steubenville. You're going to be like a kid in a candy store. I said to you, I'm going to invite you to our Melkite Vespers. I don't know what that is, but I'm excited. Yes. I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. Buckle up, buddy. It's going to be terrific. My life has been one leap of faith faith after another one leap of faith after another And God has honored every single one

Every single time I've said Lord I trust you and just like GK Chester didn't say it I came to the Catholic Church because I saw and believed it to be true. I Believe it to be absolutely true. I believe that the Catholic church is the one apostolic church established by Jesus Christ. And one question that I posed to people is, said, so there were no Christians prior to the 16th century? I mean, I'm a historian for goodness sakes. It's not Jesus then Luther. It's not Jesus then Calvin. We can't discount 1500 years of Christian history simply because we think that our tradition begins with the Southern Baptist Convention.

Our tradition does not begin with something that happens 152, 100, 500 years ago. It's much, much older, much deeper than that. And when I began to see just how deep the roots of the church go, I started to read Aquinas and started to read Augustine, the early church fathers. Then I must – I was trained to do this. When you go through a history PhD program, you're trained to go to the original sources and to find out exactly what's happening here. And so my prayer is that my relationship with my parents will be reconciled eventually.

But yeah, you're talking to a very baby Catholic. If you were to ask me Serious questions about the second Vatican Council and this particular paragraphs with the Council of Trenton I think you already know more than a lot of Catholics. I would not be able to answer that but what I see in the Catholic Church is Jesus. I see Christ and Without him I am absolutely nothing. There are three things that I pray for every single day – a teachable heart, a humble spirit, and a compassion for other people. If you can get those three things right, and if you can get God to help you with it, then

you're on the path to discovering things about God that you never knew imaginable. Your imagination just starts to explode. And so I believe that Scripture is the inerrant, infallible Word of God. I do believe that. But I also believe in the tradition of the church. I'm not a cessationist. That's a big word that's thrown around in Protestant circles. You believe that God simply

worked, you know, Baptists and Methodists and a lot of different Protestants do not believe that God still works miracles and still works through the Holy Spirit in the ways he works through the Apostles, works through the Apostles. I believe that he still does that. That comes from my Pentecostal upbringing. But I think that particularly a lot of Pentecostals in the Protestant church have completely missed the point. It's not about how much emotion you can show on Sunday morning. Actually, my first mass, you asked me the question about mass. You asked me the question about mass. When was your first mass?

What did you expect and what was it like? I was scared to death. I was nervous. I was not nervous at all about coming on this show, but I was nervous about going to mass. Because- What were you nervous about? I'd never been to anything like that before.

I didn't know how to behave. I wanted to make sure that I behaved properly. That I knew what to do. You didn't stand out or something like that. Right. I didn't want to be weird. That's fair. But at the same time I knew that I was going to experience something more powerful, more beautiful than I'd ever seen before. It's kind of like when I go to the throne room of God in prayer, I mean, just you can't do that without being completely reverent.

You're talking to the Creator, the maker of the universe. You know, John won. Through him all things were made. Then you go to the end of John and he tells us that no amount of books, the earth cannot contain everything that Jesus did during his ministry. And so here I am thinking that the creator of the universe is here, Jesus is here in the Eucharist, I'm about to say something I've never experienced. So we walk into this beautiful chapel, St. Helens in Glasgow, Kentucky.

It's an hour and 45 minutes from my home. Why am I driving an hour and 45 minutes to go to Mass? Because that's what I believe God has asked us to do. The people who God has put into our life to bring us into the church, the priests, the deacons, are there at that particular parish. And so, I could talk, my goodness, I could talk a long long time about this because the details are pretty involved. One of the deacons at St. Helens is Deacon Bruce Sullivan, and he wrote a book a few years ago entitled Christ in His Fullness. I think EWTN, did I say

the letters right? EWTN published that for him, and he's one of the deacons there. He was a And he's one of the deacons there. He was a pastor in a Protestant church for a good while, and he came to Catholicism in 1993. And so he knows very well what it's like to move from Protestant ministry into Catholicism. And so he called me one day. I reached out to Father Joseph, actually, the Fathers of Mercy in Auburn, Kentucky. Have you heard of those people? I heard of the Fathers of Mercy, but not this particular priest.

Well, I reached out to Father Joseph. I just, out of the blue one day, I said, I've got to have some help. I'm to the point now where I've read enough about Catholicism where I can't simply read about it anymore. I need to talk. I need to find somebody to talk to." So I reached out to – and they have a wonderful YouTube channel. That's how I found out about them. I went to the Fathers of Mercy YouTube channel and they had – and contrary to what I thought

they were going to be preaching about in their homilies, they were preaching about the dangers of wokeism, the dangers of modern society, how we need to live a sacramental and liturgical lifestyle. And I thought, well, my family never told me that the Catholic Church was going to offer such beauty in this regard. And so I began to watch their YouTube videos, and then I just called them up one day. I kind of do that sort of thing. If I want to talk to somebody, I just called him up one day. I kind of do that sort of thing. If I want to talk to somebody I just call them up and I got a hold of Father Joseph who is one of the ministers there

And he said how can I help you? I said well, sir, you don't know me But I've seen a couple of your Sermons on YouTube and I am thinking about joining the Catholic Church And I told him a story and he told me about RCIA and what's required, which I respect by the way. In most Protestant churches, if you're moving from Baptist to Methodist to Methodist to whatever other kind of sect in the Protestant church, you just show up and within a month, you know, you're a member of the church.

But the Catholic church requires you to know exactly what you're about to profess. They require you to understand it. It's very intellectual. And I greatly, greatly appreciate that. So I told him that I had been reading the Catechism and the Council of Trent and all these other people. He said, well, usually RCIA takes about a year, but for you it sounds like it's not going to take quite so long.

He said, I want you to get in touch with Bruce Sullivan in Glasgow. And within, I think, two or three hours, Dick and Bruce Sullivan called me. And we had a lovely conversation. By the end of that talk, I was just in tears. I was just in tears I was just so emotional because I was I Found somebody I just met him on the phone like then not two weeks ago not two years ago, and I am pouring my heart out to this man and He sends me a PDF file of his book. He said,

read this. I told him, I said in that call, I said, he asked me, he said, why are you wanting to join the Catholic Church? I said, I want more of Jesus. I said, I just don't have enough of Jesus. And he immediately said, you need the sacraments. You've got to have the sacraments. So he sent me his book which tells his story and how he found the sacraments, how he found Christ in the Catholic Church. And my wife and I read it together and so that's, he is now our sponsor in RCIA and You say our, our sponsor. Our, my wife. So she's decided also. Absolutely. I wanted to tread lightly there because I wasn't sure no no no my wife

She she just got before I left the house to come up here She got a huge box in the mail from UPS from Ascension press is book after book after book after book from Ascension press So how did she did you buy them did someone if she bought them? Oh, she's okay. she, did you buy them? Did someone? She bought them. Oh, she did? Okay. She bought them. She, you know what, Alexandria, Alex, my wife, and honey, if you're watching, just listen

here, I'm about to praise you pretty good. You know what she told me? She said, she told me just like two or three nights ago, she said, our family is closer to each other and closer to God now than we've ever been in seven years of marriage. We got three kids. I got my oldest boy's four years old, I got a daughter that's three, and I got a second son that's five months old.

And I said, I know what you mean, I know what you mean. We went to that first mass. She's been to mass before. I had never been to mass before. We went to the first mass, and after I got over the initial shock of how different this was from any Protestant service I'd been into, I just began to soak in the beauty of it. The Gregorian chant, this beauty, this absolute beauty. It's not the Latin mass, but it made sense. It made perfect sense.

Every little piece of architecture, and this is a chapel that was built in the 19th century. It's not new. I mean, there's nothing modern about it. And so I show up to the chapel for the first time. We're getting ready to go into 1130 Mass, right next door to the chapel is this monstrosity of a, I guess a Baptist church with a steeple that reaches probably 200 feet up in the air. This modern brick building, just huge, just as modern, modern across the road. A Methodist church, all modern. And here we have this

small, humble Catholic chapel in the middle of all of it. Mason- And you say, did you go with your wife? Bregman- Yes, and my children. All of us. I mean, there's no, there is absolutely no dispute between my wife and myself. We are both seeking Catholicism at the same time and with the same fervour. Mason- Glory to Jesus Christ.

And I didn't realize how rare that is. We are looking forward to the next steps. I mean, there's so much beauty in our life now. We can't wait to go to Mass again. I wish that I lived close enough to a chapel that where we could go more than once a week. Eventually we'll probably transfer to the local parish, which is still 45 minutes away. But Catholicism is not strong in southeast Kentucky. There's a lot of anti-Catholicism, actually. And once I tell the neighbors that we have become Catholic,

they're not going to take that too good. I hope they do, but there's a lot of misunderstanding. When I moved across that point of misunderstanding, and I really wanted to seek for myself what Jesus taught about the church and what the church teaches about itself from the first century until now, the beauty, the power of it, the anointing behind it was more than I could say no to. I couldn't say no to it. And so here we are. We're going through RCIA. I am looking so forward to Christmas. I have heard that Christmastime in the Catholic Church is a beauty to behold. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it. Oh, that was only a small part of the story.

I mean, a lot of people understandably find it a very difficult transition because you're not just giving up old ways of thinking, old beliefs, but you're also maybe giving up community, giving up family. Yes, but you're getting something much older and a much different, but also an important community – the communion of the saints. The communion of the saints. I never knew anything about this.

One of the books that my wife bought, and I've been reading through it the past couple of weeks, is this Encyclopedia of the Saints. And it's just phenomenal. It is phenomenal. All these beautiful, wonderful people. And we don't know anything about them in the Protestant Church. And so I'm not going to go out and proselytize people and say, hey, if you're Protestant, you need to become Catholic tomorrow.

But what I do want my Protestant friends and family to understand is that this decision to join the Catholic Church is not the result of deception. It is the result of the divine power of the Holy Spirit leading our mind, our heart, and our soul. The mind part, that's very important. Spiritual warfare at its best happens between your two ears right here. That's where spiritual warfare happens.

And so I reject anybody, family or otherwise, who says that I am joining the Catholic Church because I am being deceived by some demonic power. They don't see the beauty. They don't see the love and the power of God that's present in it. And I know there's corruption in the Catholic Church. I am very much aware of that. And I'm very much aware of Pope Francis and many things that he's doing that I, as a traditionalist conservative, cannot condone. But I still have respect for the office. R. God bless you.

M. It's not like I'm coming to Catholicism blindly. I know the history of Catholicism to a certain extent. One of the courses that I took from my master's program actually was a history on the Crusades. Mason Askenes Thank God for them. Dr. James Daly Yes. And so there's always been for the past 15 or 20 years these little nuggets of Catholicism that come into my life. I asked you earlier today if you knew who Russell Kirk was, and you said that you knew some of his work. But Russell Kirk was from Acosta, Michigan, and he became Catholic later in life. I've been to his home.

It's a proper Catholic home. I mean, you sit at the dining room table in his home, and it feels like you're sitting in a chapel. I mean, you sit at the dining room table in his home, and it feels like you're sitting in a chapel. I mean, it's beautiful. And his wife is just a precious sweetheart, Ms. Anita Kirk. She's still living. He died in the early 90s. But one of the things that I learned from Kirk was that if we have to have a moral imagination,

we are losing the moral imagination in our modern society, not simply the United States, but across the Western world. The Western world was used to be known as Christendom, by the way. We no longer have this ability to imagine and think of there being a difference between right and wrong when we read a piece of literature, when we are partaking in social media, for that matter. And I went to a couple of conferences at his home in McAlester, Michigan, and I was the only Southern Protestant there.

Everybody, a bunch of wonderful graduate students, because I had a Richard Weaver Fellowship from the Intercollegiate Studies Institute during graduate school. I don't know if you know about ISI or not. They're a strong, strong conservative. Other than the Heritage Foundation, they're probably one of the greatest conservative think tanks in the country right now. Okay. Well, they were 10, 15 years ago. I don't know about now. But they flew us up to Macaulston, Michigan to visit Russell Kirk's home. We had a conference there, and we were reading various and sundry authors, many of them Catholic

from the 14th through the 17th, 18th centuries. And I was the only Southerner there, and I was the only Protestant there. And what I came to realize is that I have absolutely nothing in common with any of these people but I love them today. They're from different parts of the world, they're Catholic, I'm not, but their humility, their willingness to show kindness and generosity and grace, they wanted to know about me, they wanted to know about the South. What are you do? What are you studying? What are you studying? Tell me about yourself

just That that degree of community is what my wife and I have been looking for ever since we got married How has your prayer life changed either personally or with your wife or with your family since wanting to become Catholic? Have you begun to adopt any Catholic devotionals like the Holy Rosary? Oh absolutely, I'm still trying to learn how to do it properly. But yeah, I have a book actually in my satchel right out yonder that explains how to do this appropriately. And I told you I'm a baby Catholic. But yeah, I had actually a viewer of the Pipe Cottage sent me this beautiful rosary in the mail some days ago made in Kentucky by a monk, and it's just absolutely gorgeous.

And he sent me a copy of the Ascension Press version of the Catholic Bible. And there's just people that's the love and the appreciation. I mean, it's like you tell people you're joining the Catholic Church and then it just explodes. People who are Catholic are welcoming you into that community. I never had anything like that whenever we were exploring the Presbyterian Church or the Methodist Church. It's like, well, we're going to see if you stay around for another two or three months,

and then we'll see if we want to welcome you or not. That's nothing against our Protestant friends, but I think that – and I'm sure that not everybody who decides to join the Catholic Church has a similar situation. I don't know. I can only speak from personal experience. But for my wife and I, I go to bed every night thanking God. Every day when I take my walk that I told you about, that's my prayer time. That's my personal prayer time.

I am praying the entire time. And what I want our home to be is I want it to be liturgical. I want it to be sacramental. And so we're learning how to do that. We're learning how to do that. We're not there yet, but you give us some time and we'll reach that point. I just interviewed a fellow called Keith Nester, which was for our local supporters. We're going to put it out on YouTube later. He wrote a book. Maybe you can remind me the title Thursday, but it was he converted. He was a Protestant pastor and his book is being a Catholic

the first year after your conversion or something to that effect. A Convert's Guide to Roman Catholicism. A Convert's Guide to Roman Catholicism. Your first year in the first year in the church. Your first year in the church, yeah. Well, I'll have to look it up. It sounds like it would be worth a copy. It would be worth a copy.

Yeah. C.S. Lewis famously said, I've quoted it many times, that the Protestant looks at the Catholic church as an overrun jungle, and the Catholic looks at the Protestant as a barren desert. Where is everything? And the Protestant says, why is there so much? And I have encountered Protestants who've become Catholic who get overwhelmed by so many different devotionals and ways of praying and I think one of the pieces of advice He would give is

Choose something that you're drawn to and just remain faithful to a few things not to get too overwhelmed by all the many devotionals that are there faithful to a few things, not to get too overwhelmed by all the many devotionals that are there. Beautiful. I became a Catholic when I was 17. I was baptized a Catholic, I mean, but I was agnostic. Atheism wasn't yet cool when I was 17. It wasn't yet a way of saying I'm intellectually superior to you, as maybe it is today. So I decided I was agnostic. At the age of 17, my mum sent me on a trip to Rome in Italy, At the age of 17, my mum sent me on a trip to Rome in Italy, and it was there that I encountered other people my age who loved Jesus Christ, who were saving sex to marriage, who weren't vulgar in their speech.

And I was like, who are you? Where did you come from? Yeah. Why aren't you sarcastic and bitter? And why are you so happy? And it really shocked me. And I began to open my heart up to the possibility Maybe God exists. So I mean what the hell the whiner? I don't even know how they make plastic

So maybe maybe it's possible right and it was yeah during that trip. I encountered the the the presence of Jesus Christ I came back. Mm-hmm. So happy it would make you sick. That is a Beautiful story and I want to know more about your story. I really do. I don't know all those details but we would I The God was always a part of our household coming up I never reached a moment where I thought the God didn't exist that was never a part of my upbringing But I'm both my wife and I reached the point where we realized

nothing else is giving us what we want. We need more of Jesus. I mean, I want him here. I want him here in the same room. I want the Holy Spirit of God. I think part of our skepticism about Christianity in general is You live long enough and everything that has promised you something has let you down And then along comes these Christians and they tell you about this person called Jesus and what he can do for you And you just think nothing could be that good and you don't want to be disappointed again one of the worst exports of American society now is Evangelical Christianity

What I mean by that by the way, I don't know if it's possible or not, but this tobacco is getting better and better I don't know if it's the the whiskey with it But when I first started smoking this particular blend, I found it a bit too spicy. Is that right? It's more spicy than the other or not. Well, what what believe this one here the red flake? Yes, it does definitely have a little spice to it, But I will say the more I'm smoking the more enjoyable it is Well, don't sip it too hard now sip that or this that no the pipe the pipe the pipe Yeah, neat the bourbon either I guess Well, why do you say that about?

Because we have a particular style of evangelical Christianity in this country. It's very upbeat. It's Materialistic it's consumerism. It's presentist and futuristic What do you mean by futuristic? It's almost escapist. We look to What God's going to do in the future without recognizing what God is asking us to do now. Escapism is a major problem in the Protestant Church. Escapism. Well, there's no reason for me to help this person. They're gonna die tomorrow anyway. There's no point for me to become

involved in this cause because Jesus is coming back any time and he's gonna take care of it all. Escapism. I'll have to take your word for it. Yeah, I wouldn't know. Well, this is your experience. Yeah, it is. But I have a different experience. I mean, and I'm not to contradict yours at all, but just to say I've been so gratified and blessed by American Protestants. That's been my personal experience. When I encounter an American Protestant who loves Jesus Christ, these are people who are joy-filled. They believe that God is on the move today. He's not an artifact of history. He's alive now. Their love for the scriptures inspires me. I'm not

saying I don't see that in the Catholic faith as well, you understand, but I'm saying I think there's a lot that we Catholics can learn from Protestants and when I talk to Protestant converts, what I often find them saying is something similar they say I'm so grateful for my Protestant upbringing they taught me to love Jesus they taught me to love the scripture it's it feels and you tell me if this is right because I'm not a convert from Protestantism but they'll say to me I don't feel like I'm getting rid of anything I think I'm just coming to a broader horizon. More is being given to me.

You know that that's right. You know that that's right. I mean, many people have said that, and I can certainly contest to it. I can attest to it. Everything that I loved about the Protestant Church, I can find in Catholicism. I mean, and much more.

That's the point. I reached a point where, okay, I've experienced all this. That's the point. I reached a point where okay I've experienced all this I need something else But what really irritates me about the Protestant Church in the United States and I'm going to go out on a limb here And you may agree or disagree is denominational pride We have particularly in the south. I don't know about up here, but in the south We can have a half mile stretch of highway, we can have a half-mile stretch of highway,

and we can have ten different churches, ten different denominations on that same stretch of highway, and they'll never talk to one another. They'll never have anything to do with one another. We have strip mall Christianity is what I like to call it. People get mad with what the pastor's doing in this particular church, and then they're going to go and do a strip mall place and start their own church next Sunday and lease a building for a while. This is what irritates me with the Protestant Reformation. This is what it has resulted in.

You can't see, say, James getting upset with Peter and being like, that's it, I'm starting my own church. It's like, that's not an option. There's one church at the church Christ established. Yes. That we stay in the boat and we fight. Right. We don't leave the boat. Right, and so here I am thinking to myself, okay, this country and Western Sia, for the most part,

is going to hell in a handbasket, is twirling the drain faster than we can keep up with it. And it's not politics is gonna solve the problem, it is the church. Amen. Darrell Bock And so if we are bickering back and forth with one another – I mean, in the South, this is a big, big problem, a huge problem. They call it the Bible Belt.

But I have personally in my life known people in my family and friends that I've known, and they were raised in one denomination, and they will have absolutely nothing to do with somebody raised in a different denomination within the Protestant circles. That's not what we're called to do. We're never going to get anything to do. I have often told people, if a fraction of Americans who call themselves Christians were really serious about obeying God, we would see some major, major changes – cultural changes, political changes, economic changes.

I mean, God has told us, here's what you do, you don't do that, here's the consequences. While you puff on that, I feel I've taken you away from your pipe. I'll give you a chance to smoke this. I want to share with you, because what you just said really struck me. I'm reading Gaudium et spes right now. Gaudium et spes means the church in the modern world. It's a document from the Second Vatican Council and it is absolutely beautiful. It begins in the introduction talking about the problems of modern man, the search for the fullness of life apart from Christ through materialism, through through maybe Eastern techniques or something else. And here's here's how it concludes the introduction.

If you'll let me. The church believes that Christ and just imagine a Protestant who doesn't think the church is in love with Christ and puts Christ central. He is the church's solution to the problem of modern man. The church believes that Christ, who died and rose from the dead for all of us, gives man through his spirit, light and strength enough to live up to his high vocation. Nor is there any other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. She believes that the key, the centre and purpose of all human history is to be found in her,

Lord and Master. The Church claims that beneath all change there are many things unchanging which have their ultimate foundation in Christ who is the same yesterday and today and forever. In the light of Christ, the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, the council, the Second Vatican Council, means to address itself to everybody, to shed light on the mystery of man and cooperate in finding solutions to the problems of our time. I really would recommend, after you've read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you dig into some of these, this is just outstanding. Christ is the answer, and it's

the Church's mission to proclaim it have a right Absolutely, right couldn't agree more you have a portrait of Hilaire Belloc in your cigar lounge. I Was talking to you a little bit about southern agrarianism in the cigar lounge and One of the first essays in that book entitled I'll Take My Stand, which came out in 1930, was written by John Crow Ransom. And one of the points he makes in that book is that the American South was never quite so comfortable with removing itself from European history and culture other parts of the country were. And in 1936, several of the people who contributed to that first book, entitled I'll Take My Stand, wrote a second, a sequel entitled Who Owns America? And the concluding essay was written by Hilaire Bellocq.

And it was a diatribe. It was – that's the wrong word, that's an inappropriate word. It was... Coherent rant? No, no, it was a well articulated defense of tradition against modern man. And one of the premier points he makes is that modern man is trying to create a morality separate from religion. And of course, that's typical Belloc. I mean, he wrote many things about that. But there is – one of the reasons I'm so attracted to studying the American South is

that our part of the country has never been so comfortable with moving into the 20th and 21st centuries in the sense that we accept progressivism and the William James John Dewey idea of pragmatism. The only truly American philosophy that this country can claim is pragmatism, which comes in the late 19th century from John Dewey and William James. And essentially, pragmatism, of course, teaches that whatever your truth is, that's what is true. Whatever is true for me, that is true.

You can't have a society like that. James Madison said in the Federalist Papers that you can't have a republic unless you have a holy, religious, and moral people. And so I brought up Russell Kirk a while ago, and I think people should read him, particularly if you're Catholic and you're interested in a proper understanding of American politics, American culture. He wrote two books that are extremely important, The Conservative Mind, written in 1953, and The Roots of American Order, I think, written in the 1970s.

And what he said about the South in the conservative mind, he talks about Edmund Burke, he talks about history of conservatism writ large, but he has a chapter on Southern conservative thought. He said one of the great contributions of Southern conservatism to American history is that they have always been, Southerners have pretty well always been defiant towards external authority. They have been very much in agreement with the teachings of previous generations, a high respect for history, and they have a high respect for a rural and agricultural lifestyle.

And this is one of the main themes that I talk about on the Pact Cottage. I think that we're becoming far too urban in our society now. And one of the things it draws me to Catholicism is its appreciation for the created order. He's going to love Steubenville. The created order. But I would encourage people to read Russell Kirk. What he said in the Roots of American Order is if you want to understand Philadelphia, you have to first go to Israel, Jerusalem, then you go to Rome, then you study the history of London, and then you study the history of Philadelphia, the Declaration of Independence, and of course, the Constitution. There's so much that I'm trying to unpack here.

Rich Lowry, you know who Rich Lowry is? He was the, he may still be the chief editor of National Review. Years ago, I was in Cincinnati, Ohio, and gave a talk on Southern conservatism. And Rich Lowry was producing – he was delivering the keynote address during the banquet that night after our talks. And he says in his address that, �We as the United States, we've always fought back against tyranny and wrongdoing.� and he mentions the American Revolution fighting against the British and he mentions the war of 1812 and then he mentions the bombardment

of Fort Sumter in South Carolina in 1861 and he goes on and on through first world war, second world war, etc. And so there was a Q&A session after he finished his speech. And I was one of the first to the microphone and I said, Mr. Larry, I would like you to know that my people were on the firing end at the Bonbarmen of Fort Sumter during the Civil War. And let me remind you of Russell Kirk's, a guy who everybody in all these conservative circles apparently admires. Russell Kirk's contribution to our understanding of how the South is important to our understanding of American politics and American history.

That's what I know about. I know about Southern history. I don't know a whole lot about the history of Catholicism, but what I do know is this. The two are moving together in my life in a way that makes absolute perfect sense. Why? Because my understanding of Southern writers and Southern history teaches me that we have taken a wrong turn somewhere in modern society. We've taken a wrong turn somewhere in modern society. We've taken a wrong turn.

We are far too interested in what's going on now and how we can improve ourselves tomorrow. We have completely forgotten about those who come before us. You go to the Catholic Church, you don't have that. In traditional Catholicism, you build your relationship with God upon the Holy Scriptures first and foremost, but you appreciate and respect and admire those people who come before you. That is a worldview right there. That is the makings of a worldview that this country needs to hear more about. Yeah. Excellent. Would you be okay if we started taking some questions? Yeah, I don't mean to prattle on.

No, it was excellent. I'm so glad you shared everything you did. So we're going to be taking questions just from our local supporters, matfrad.locals.com. Want to let people know too that this is the last month we're giving away a free Pints with Aquinas Beer Stein when you sign up to matfrad.locals.com. So sign up by the end of September and we will give you this for free. You just have to pay shipping. matfrad.locals.com. You get a ton of other free things in return.

One of those things is asking our wonderful guests questions. Now, I haven't previewed these questions, so we got one great question from chat. OK, let's do one great question from chat and then back to locals. Go for it. Please ask the good doctor to say there stands Jackson like a stone wall. Do you know the context of that? No, I just laugh because you guys did. Goodness gracious, son.

You got to catch up on your American history. Well, this is a quote that comes from the first battle of Manassas, July 21st, 1861. General Thomas Jonathan Stonewall Jackson, he wasn't Stonewall at the time, he was born in what is now West Virginia and The Confederate Army this is the first major land battle of the war 61 People in Washington thought it was just gonna be over in a few minutes there I love that we're getting way more than we even wanted but I'm glad we're doing this you're not gonna understand anything I'm saying no, it's terrific. Yeah, you're not gonna go and read no Civil War history by yourself. No, you told me about that.

I know. I'm gonna encourage you. I'm gonna send you some lists of books. But here we have people from Washington who are living in the city, and they come down to the First Manassas, which is not far outside of Washington in Northern Virginia, and they come in their chariots and their wagons, and they have their picn picnics and they think this is where the Confederacy is going to be defeated Here today and it almost was until General Jackson showed up on the field and

General Jackson showed up with his troops and a South Carolina officer by the name of General Bernard E. B Sees Jackson standing up on the hill on his horse and said Bernard E. B. sees Jackson standing up on the hill on his horse and said, he said, there stands Jackson standing like a stone wall, rally around the Virginians. And so these South Carolinians rally behind the Virginians and they win the day. That's the first Battle of Manassas. The Confederacy lived to see a second Battle of Manassas in August of 1862 He knows his stuff is that what you need, but what would you say? What do you what do they want? You said it okay say it but what's the line there stands Jackson like a stone wall

I say that again though with their stands Jackson like a stone wall. That's not all of the quote rally around the Virginians very good Sorry, I had I have a mate his name is John Henry span If you have a mate, yeah friend. Oh my best mate. You're Australian if you met him You guys would either be best friends or arch rivals. I'm not sure what it would do They like teach American history at Franciscan University? I have never been. Do they? I would like to talk to historians at Franciscan. They do. Okay, they do. They have to teach some kind of history. Is it a liberal arts college? Is it a liberal arts college? They have a liberal arts college primarily.

Matfrad.locals.com ask your question there. Here we go. Let's go. We'll go. We'll do our best here. I consent to having you say my username. Okay, Christian Hockenberry. So glad to have you on the show. I want to make my own pipe out of Briarwood kit with a long church warden stem.

What should I make and what can I do to make it look professional versus amateur? Time and practice do not expect that your first pipe is going to look anything like what your final one We all just get started the practice is what makes perfect but perfect practice makes perfect. I would I'm not a pipe maker, but I know that several people have made, actually, I hate to say go to YouTube, but there are excellent YouTube videos about this. Briar is the word I would start with, definitely. Actually, my wife bought me for this past Christmas a pipe making kit. What a good woman.

Yeah, but it's still in the box. That's not her. I am I am So afraid to do that. I don't want to ruin a fine piece of briar, but by my own personal mistakes Emily Bacon says I'm a relatively new pipe smoker and I've never been able to figure out how to get it to taste good Oftentimes no matter what tobacco I use, it tastes like burnt leather. Any advice? Take it slow. You're smoking too fast. I can almost guarantee that's what's happening. Sip it like a glass of wine or a glass of bourbon, which reminds me if you don't mind. Have you, Mr. Dorphin says, have you tried Pappy Van Winkle and how can I get my hands

on a bottle I? Have and I think all bourbon tastes the same so I don't know if I've ever had but I have a Winkle Robbie gave me So it's fine. I've never had tasted like bourbon, which I really like See Barbosa says why would one and you've addressed this but take another stab at if you want Why would one have multiple pipes to different styles pair well with certain tobaccos or would one, and you've addressed this, but take another stab at it if you want, why would one have multiple pipes? Do different styles pair well with certain tobaccos or would one own several different pipes for the sake of the pipe alone? The pipes alone. There is a word that we do not use in the pipe community. It's need.

We don't need 200 pipes. We simply buy them because we enjoy the different artwork. No two pipes are the same. It's just a way of appreciating art. I like what you said though about pipes kind of being timestamps in your life. I remember after my fourth child Peter was born, beautiful boy that he is, I was on my way home and I stopped by a cigar lounge and I bought a pipe. I thought this is the pipe that I'm going to have and I'm going to remember Peter and his birth. Were there any doctrines that Dr. Harrelson found particularly difficult to accept during his conversion journey?

Asks, let's see, who asked that? Jordan? No, not after I read the scripture behind the teaching of the church. It wasn't as difficult for me as it was what it has been for other Protestants who have converted. I'm a fairly black and white individual I see things either right or wrong and if I can find evidence to support a particular position. And I will have to say this, any reservation I had about particular doctrines with the church, whether we're talking about Mary, the saints, the Eucharist, they were all shattered, just completely shattered by my reading of beautiful writers and the catechism The shattered I mean it can't hold up the criticism was

Shot through by the beauty of the people who came before us So here's a good question nickel lof holes says the two of you have to try to swap accents for the interview. I Don't believe I'm quiet to the point where I can make that happen. And I don't want to insult you by my trying. I have never been to Australia. So I don't believe I have enough of cultural background for that. I mentioned my mate John Henry a moment ago. One thing he says, which I love is I love when people sound like they're from somewhere

and you sound like you're from somewhere. Love your accent. Andrew Lytle, one of the other southern writers that contributed to I'll Take My Stand, he used to ask people not where are you from, but where do your people bury? Think about that when you go in the bed. Eric asks, how many horses does he have? What kind of horses does he have and did he grow up doing any horse show or rodeo? No, I did not grow up doing any horse anything. We have three quarter horses on our farm, but my wife is so interested in starting a horse business.

She wants to raise her own horses and she's got these lofty ideals. We bought another 50 acres up the road from us and she wants to turn that into her horse farm where she's going to build this magnificent barn and raise horses and sell them. I simply love to ride them. There's nothing like, there's absolutely absolutely have you ever ridden horses? I have you have there's nothing like riding a good horse over a beautiful country. And that's a quote from Robert Duvall Lonesome Dove 1989 the best Western ever made. Now tell us about your mate.

You mean friend or my wife your friend. Sorry. Yeah, Dwayne dry Creek Wrangler School. Oh Dwayne. What a guy. Love his channel. Yeah Dwayne's good. Actually one of the horses that I own I bought from Dwayne. A beautiful Palomino mare. That's my wife's pride and joy. She loves that horse. And Dwayne and I have a good relationship. He taught me, I can literally say he taught me everything I know about horses. Oh yeah. Because I like didn't know anything prior to meeting him. He's a humble soul, a very

humble man. And his channel is one of the biggest in the masculine sphere these days. Absolutely excellent. He just did an excellent take on Andrew Tate talking about how it's not the loudest guy in the room. That's not the one you follow. Right. It was an excellent and humble criticism of much that's come out of Tate and I shared it on my channel. If you chat with him, tell him some Aussie up in Ohio says thanks. Well I will do so, I will do so. Our relationship is a little bit tested right now because he called me actually a couple of weeks ago and said, Alan you are not Catholic, why are you joining the Catholic Church? And so that's a friendship that I hope to restore and I

love that man. I love him tremendously. He's out in Wyoming and He's got a beautiful family. His wife is wonderful. She seems beautiful. I've watched a lot of his videos So I've seen her in them as well. Right. I mean so he's got it. He is he is the quintessential American. Now let me say what's this channel called? Tri Creek Wrangler School. Please go check that out If you're watching you've never heard this fella is just terrific Yeah, because he's helped me a lot. He's helped me. I found out about his YouTube channel a year before I met him and then when I met him we just Just clicked he's a big pipe smoker and a cigar smoker

Yeah, and he doesn't smoke pipes as much on his channel as he does cigars But well he talks a lot right it's hard to talk right it is it is it is but isn't this wonderful the connection between people who? making content these days and to that point we have a comment here from Alexander Nagovian who says dude you are interviewing some wicked cool people. Keep up the great work. So just to show that there's a lot of my viewers who know exactly who you are and they're so happy to see us chatting together. Wicked cool people.

That's what he said. I declare I don't know if I've ever been described as such. Well, now you have. What's his opinion on wives that dislike smoking, especially when there's a newborn in a one bedroom apartment? Well, fair enough. Well, my first advice is don't take my advice. You need to pay attention to your wife and you need to find a way to resolve that issue in and of yourself.

I would never say anybody to somebody. And then they, as a husband, go to their wife and say, well, Alan Harrelson told me to tell you this. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's one of the other beautiful things that I love about the Catholic Church. Marriage is a sacrament. It's a sacrament. And so when you see Holy Matrimony as a sacrament, then you want to do everything in your power to serve your spouse, to serve them. And so my advice would be to serve that spouse. If she doesn't want you smoking, if I were raising a child in an apartment, I would absolutely not smoke in there.

Yeah. I wouldn't do it. Right. So. Yeah. Good job. That's excellent. All right. What do we got here? Another question. Have you tried any Catholic company, company pipe tobacco or cigars? Let me answer this. If you don't mind, I want to point people to Frassati pipes.com Thursday. Could you throw a link below? We're going to have the fellow. What's his name?

Joshua Sanders makes these pipes. He's going to be at the Hobbit party on tomorrow night. And you're going to get to meet him. He might have a surprise for you I have never smoked them. I do not know the man. Well, come on just just for a quick glance. What do you think? I think the website looks good for sardy pipes.com. What is it? What to go back to the top? What is the Turning your pipe dreams into a reality. Oh, that's good. Yeah, that's good He does a really great work. We sell him at the Chesterton's and really humble fella very talented Where does he live? Texas. He's in Texas. He's going to be here tomorrow. He will be you get to meet him Well, my goodness. He'll be honored to meet you too. He knows who you are

So good. If you want to buy a really nice pipe go check out for Sardi pipes Are you familiar with any Catholic company pipe tobacco or cigars? No. Until you start blending your own, hey? That's right. Yeah. No, I don't know of any Catholic company that's producing cigars or pipes, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. Yeah. CPT Mac 6071 says, have you ever smoked Kinney Kinnick tobacco? My go-to in early 1970s, before that it was Grangers or Grangers? Grangers, oh yes. Grangers is my favourite Kaja blend. Yeah, so there are several of those blends that were around at that time.

Sir Walter Raleigh, Prince Albert, half and half. But Grangers is my favorite actually from that generation. If, do you live near Knoxville? I live an hour north of Knoxville, Tennessee, yeah. Well Tony says if you live near Knoxville there's a beautiful TLM at Holy Ghost, for your information he says. Is there, there's a what now?

A traditional Latin mass, sorry. At Holy Ghost? Yeah, at Holy Ghost. Is that the name of the? That's the name of. At Holy Ghost. Yeah, at Holy Ghost. Is that the name of the church? That's the name of the church. Okay, good, good, good. Drew the Catholic says, what's his go-to blend these days? Now, I know you'd like variety, but let me ask you this.

If you could only smoke one blend for the rest of your life. That's a typical question that everybody asks. Doesn't make it a not good one. Well, it's a good question. It's a typical question that everybody asks. It doesn't make it a not good one. Well, it's a good question. It's a good question. It would be My Mixter 965 from Peterson. An old Dunhill blend, but Peterson now has the rights to it. My Mixter 965 is technically a Scottish blend because it has Cavendish in it. It's not an aromatic and I love it and you can still buy it readily at any online tobacco company Sarah says do you enjoy Wendell Berry novels? If so, what's your favorite book of character? Oh

My lord my favorite Wendell Berry novel is the memory of old Jack And this is a story of an old farmer who is watching society deteriorate around him. And by deteriorate, I mean nobody cares about the land anymore. Nobody wants to be on the land anymore. And he has distant family members who come and visit him at his farm in one of the scenes in the novel. And they hop out of their car, and when their feet hit the soil, Barry makes this beautiful point. It's as if it's a taint, it's foreign.

These people are not from here. They don't appreciate the soil on which their feet are now resting. A soil that had been their ancestral home place. These children and grandchildren from his family have moved off to town somewhere and they don't want to have anything to do with the farm anymore. This is a... People want to talk about Wendell Berry. Wendell Berry is one of the preeminent authors still living in the United States now. Why? Because he reminds people of what they've lost.

This country was born, the United States was born in the country, but it moved to the city. And that's not a quote original to me. I think the first time I encountered that quote, it came from historian David Danbaum, who wrote a history in the 1980s about the history of rural America. I'm not a city man, and I've received a lot of criticism on my channel for criticizing American city life, but I really don't care. Thomas Jefferson said that cities are to a democracy what souls are to the body. It doesn't work.

are to the body. It doesn't work. Farmers are the chosen people of God. That's a Jeffersonian perspective. Of course, it's not a Catholic perspective, but there's a point there. There's a point there. As Andrew Lytle said years ago, a Southern writer from Tennessee, he lived until the 1990s. He was born in the early part of the 20th century. He said that a farm is a place not to grow wealthy, but to grow corn. I like it. There's something else you can think about

when you go to bed at night. Smokey Catholic says, "'Allen, why are some pipes over $200?, $100 to $120 max seems in my ballpark? I think the most expensive pipe I have in my collection I paid $500 for, and it's Morda Wood, which is petrified oak that came out of the Great Lakes. And I bought it from Mark Tinsky. Mark Tinsky is an American, he's probably, other than J.M. Boswell out of Pennsylvania, Mark Tinsky is my favorite American pipe maker.

And he is in Montana, and he spends most of his days fly fishing, but when he's not fly fishing, he's making pipes. So I don't think that I will ever pay a thousand, two thousand dollars for a pipe, but there have been occasions when I've been willing to pay three to five hundred dollars for a pipe. Greg Farris Kyle Whittington says, serious question, what audiobook do you hope to get hired to read? None. None. Books should not be listened to. They should be read. Of course, just my opinion. S.P. Doedman, if you and Alan could smoke and chat with any saint, who would you choose and why? Oh, the venerable bead.

Did I say that right? Yes, but why? Because he's the patron saint of historians and scholars. That's why. He was an important historian in the early church and his works are not something that I've gotten into yet, but I would love to sit down and talk with that man. One day, huh? Yes. Ben and autumn says it's my birthday today. And this conversation is a real treat smoking some Orlik golden sliced with y'all. God bless. Do you know what that is? Orlik golden sliced.

Oh, do I ever more? It's a Virginia with a little bit of Perique in it. Okay. I don't like it real good. Yeah. It's okay, but it's not my favorite. But it is a good blend. It's better when it's aged. Virginia tobacco ages extremely well.

And I have to go back. I had this rant against cigarettes a while ago. Yeah. I was down at a pipe show in Gainesville, Georgia, at Smitty's pipe, Smitty's Cigar Shop, I think is the name of it, in Gainesville, Georgia. And so if you're around Gainesville, go to Smitty's. They are good people. But that evening, I was allowed to smoke a cigarette of pure Virginia tobacco from the 1940s.

The 1940s, yes, yes. I see the incredulity on your face. Rolled recently? No, it comes in this metal tin and you pop the top of the tin off and they're positioned in there and you're top to bottom, just horizontal. So you pull it out. How much does that cost you? Well if you were to buy one now, the tin would cost three or four

hundred dollars at least. But I had an acquaintance of mine, it pays to be Alan Harrelson of the pipe cottage. Sometimes you get people who show up and give you presents and this fella showed up and he gave me one of his cigarettes I said I don't smoke cigarettes I just tell you what my ancestors to come out the ground and get me if I just smoke something like that he said no don't inhale it just smoke it like you do a pipe. Just roll the smoke around in your mouth. And at that time in the 1940s,

they didn't have 200 chemicals in cigarettes like we do now. And I puffed on that little old thing. Let me make your tongue slap your brains out. My goodness, it was the sweetest Virginia tobacco I have ever had in my whole life. And it was a cigarette. 1940s.

Did you hear what I said? No, it's remarkable. That's old. That's very old. Have you ever had tobacco that old? No, I don't think so. Not on purpose. Well, you should.

You should. If I come down for Christmas, maybe we can we can smoke one, right? Kyle Whittington says and you like this question. What's your favorite story in American history that most people don't know? What ah, that's not difficult to answer at all Woodrow Wilson our 28th president He spent a great deal of time in Virginia, but he also lived in Augusta, Georgia for a while. And, um, I named my firstborn son after Confederate President Jefferson Davis. Say it isn't so. Yes. Yes, I did.

I named my firstborn son, his name Davis. He was born in Meridian, Mississippi when I was going to graduate school down there, and I named my firstborn son Davis. And I admire Jefferson Davis tremendously. One of my favorite moments in American history, I mean, from colonization, settlement to now, is Woodrow Wilson when he was living in Augusta, Georgia in the 1880s as a boy 20-25 years after the Civil War they were living in a home downtown Augusta and President Jefferson Davis was visiting town that particular weekend and he was and so President what would become President Wilson is sitting on the front porch of this Augusta, Georgia townhouse, and he simply watches a carriage roll by that is carrying President Davis to a speaking engagement.

He said that was the most profound and venerable occasion of his entire life. Now that's President Woodrow Wilson. He was watching Jefferson Davis roll by his house in a carriage. If I could go back to any time in American history, I would want to see President Jefferson Davis roll by the front steps of my house in a horse-drawn carriage. Tim says, Dr. Harrelson, who's your favorite Civil War general? Well, it would most definitely have to be General Lee. I don't know of anybody that's more venerated in American history. And actually, I was just talking to my friend Patrick today about General

James Longstreet from South Carolina. He was born in South Carolina, and we discovered that he was Catholic, actually. And he commanded one of General Lee's corps at the Battle of Gettysburg in 1863. Actually, we just came back from a trip to Gettysburg two or three weeks ago. And so American history is fascinating. People overlook it for no reason at all. There's so many wonderful people in the history of our country that we can learn from, Catholic

or otherwise. Chris McHughes Veritas says, I make pipes out of hard maple only because that's all I have. Is that okay? If it doesn't burn through, yes. If you make it thick enough, then it should be fine. There's a fella down in Georgia, he owns the, I forget his name right off the bat, he owns the briary pipe shop in Birmingham, Alabama. I said Georgia, Birmingham, Alabama. And he makes pipes out of Osage Orange wood. Osage Orange is a tree that grows in the south.

It grows in Kentucky. And I don't know, it may grow up here, but the thing about wood when you're making a pipe is it doesn't need to burn. That's why briar root is so important. Briar root is the root ball of the heath tree, which is primarily grown in the Mediterranean. But we do have some woods in our country we can make pipe from, but I think the briar remains superior. You can buy briar from Italy. I don't know why somebody would need to make a pipe out of maple. There seems to be a big pipe smoking culture in Italy. Oh, very much so.

Very much so. European culture is more pipe-centric than we are. Denmark is probably the most. Denmark and Sweden, I think there are more pipe smokers in Sweden than there are per capita in any other country in the world. J.L. Watson says, what are the Doctor's favorite Southern authors? Fiction and history? Dr. J.L. Watson, Jr.

Oh, goodness gracious. Fiction. You're asking me a question that could take a long time to answer. History obviously, Shelby Foote. Shelby Foote is my all-time favorite historian. He was never a college-educated man. He did not receive a graduate degree, and he is despised by many people in the current history profession because of that. When it

comes to fiction authors, from South Carolina, I would have to say Archibald Rutledge, if nobody has never read Archibald Rutledge. He was from the Low Country. And you should certainly check out his work. I also enjoy the work of Walker Percy, who was a staunch Catholic. And he was also, coincidentally, the lifelong best friend of Shelby Foote. They were both raised in Greenville, Mississippi. And it sounds like you're a fan of Flannery, or you've read some of her stories? Oh, absolutely. Have you been to her home in Milledgeville, Mississippi. And it sounds like you're a fan of Flannery or you've read some of her stories? Oh, absolutely. Have you been to her home in Milledgeville, Georgia?

Not her home, sorry, but where she was born in Savannah. Ah, yes. Well, you should go to Milledgeville, Georgia to her home there. I used to have, I taught high school history for three years and I had a sticker on the side of my desk in the classroom, and it was a quote from Flannery O'Connor. And the quote was, when in Rome, do as you done in Milledgeville. Now, wait a minute, I've got to tell you the history behind that just in case folks don't

know it. All right. Miss Flannery knew a lot of young people in her community, and this story is found in the letters of Flannery O'Connor, which are published, which you can now read. And she received a message, a letter from a young man in her community who was looking to go up north to go to college. And he said, I am from Georgia, I'm about to go up north to go to college What kind of advice do you have for a southern boy?

That's headed up north to go to school and she said son When in Rome do as you done in Milledgeville Very good Well look as we wrap up. Let's let's I want people to know more about what you're doing at pipe cottage. It sounds like the original purpose of this pipe cottage thing was to to sell pipes. Yes, then you moved and you no longer selling them. So what is what is it? Well, it's a ministry more than anything else. The pipe cottage is my way of telling people my story to bring a little bit of joy and happiness into somebody's

day. Anything I can do to make that happen, it's worthwhile. I like to talk about Southern history and literature. Of course, we talk about pipe smoking a great deal. And there's no schedule. I mean, I don't make an income off of this. It's more of a, something I like to do to just talk to people.

Because you know, it's very difficult to find people who smoke pipes in your immediate community, particularly when you live on a farm and you have to drive an hour to find the nearest restaurant of any caliber. So, and I just, the pipe cottage exists as a way to help people understand that the pipe is an instrument that can lead you to the instruction of a bygone era. It's not modern.

I don't like modern stuff. I despise modern stuff. And the pipe is just one way, and the pipe cottage is one way of Fighting back against this atomistic secular humanistic society in which we currently live We live a life among the ruins. Mm-hmm. Good job. Well, dr Alan harrelson everyone who's watching we have a link to your YouTube channel in the title, so please go and subscribe and follow the work of Alan. And also tomorrow night, for those who are just joining us,

we're gonna be doing a Hobbit party here in our cigar lounge, Chesterton's, and you're gonna be there with your banjo, I believe. I have it in the back of the car right now. I'm ready to shell down the corn son If you live within a few hours of drive, it might be worth popping over. It's gonna be really great We're gonna also have a lot of Tolkien scholars showing up and even we got some people from England coming in and all sorts of things So anyway, thank you so much. This is wonderful. God bless you on your journey. Thank you for being here

It's a privilege in an honor. So thank you Patrick much. This is wonderful. God bless you on your journey. Thank you for being here. It's a privilege and an honour, sir. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you, Thursday. Have a great night.