Pints With Aquinas - Yes, The Internet is Killing Islam (GodLogic) | Ep. 597

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

GodLogic (Avery Austin) is here to expose the cracks in Islamic apologetics and make the case for Christianity, one hadith at a time. Ep. 597 Enjoy these episodes and other exclusive content ad free, one week early with DailyWire+ : https://get.dailywire.com - - - 📚 Resources Mentioned: GodLogic Apologetics: https://www.youtube.com/@GodLogicApologetics GodLogic Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/godlogicgl/?hl=en GodLogic TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/discover/godlogic Citations are from: Sunnah.com Theotokos Rosaries: https://dwplus.shop/TheotokosRosaries Truthly 30 Day Free Trial: https://get.truthly.ai/TlbX/MATT30 - - - Today's Sponsors:  Seven Weeks Coffee: Go to https://SevenWeeksCoffee.com/PINTS and subscribe to save 15% forever, plus you’ll receive a free gift. Use promo code PINTS for an extra 10% off your first order, bringing your first order savings to 25%, plus that free gift. Charity Mobile: Visit https://charitymobile.com/mattfradd Free phone offer with Code: MATTFRADD Hallow: Visit hallow.com/fradd and get 3 months free. Word on Fire: Heaven in Stone and Glass is in theaters nationwide on September 20th and 23rd. Get your tickets now at HeavenInStoneAndGlass.com. Relay: Freedom is possible. That’s what Relay is for. Real, lasting freedom from porn. Not shame. Visit https://joinrelay.app/pints and use my code PINTS for your 7-day free trial. Join Relay today! - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: ⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe⁠⁠ 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. - - - 📕 Get my newest book, Jesus Our Refuge, here: https://a.co/d/bDU0xLb 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mattfradd.locals.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠ - - - 💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: ⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas⁠⁠⁠ 🎵 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas⁠⁠⁠ 📚 PWA Merch – ⁠⁠⁠https://dwplus.shop/MattFraddMerch⁠⁠ 👕 Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com - - - Privacy Policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.dailywire.com/privacy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if a few minutes with God could change the direction of your entire day? With pray.com, you can begin each morning with powerful daily prayers, inspiring Bible stories, and messages created to strengthen your faith. Whether you need peace, encouragement, or a fresh start, pray.com helps you make prayer part of your everyday life. Download the pray.com app today. The internet is the death of Islam, and millions upon millions of people have caught on. And what are the inconsistencies or falsehoods that are being discovered by these young Muslims because of the internet? The character of Muhammad. Finding out that Muhammad slept with Aisha when she was nine years old.

Finding out that the Quran allows for men to marry, divorce, and sleep with prepubescent girls. finding out that Muhammad had slaves and didn't free all slaves like they're told. This stuff really shakes them, it rocks them to their core. Now the pushback you'll get immediately is the Old Testament is filled with violence, and not just violence, but violence that was authorized by God. He didn't send Israel as a war entity against everyone. Kill all infidels, no, it's not like that. How do we know that the original Quran wasn't preserved the way it's said to have been?

This is actually huge. A lot of Muslims banked their faith on the core. on the Quran being perfectly preserved. It is not a myth that Muslims are dreaming about Christ and are converting. The Muslims are coming up with their testimonies of how Christ came to them and saved them, brought them out of the darkness of Islam. It's crazy. Avery, first name God Logic.

Yes, sir. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you for having me, man. Thank you for having me. This is a, it's pretty nice, you know, a nice little feel, you know? I love it, man. Well, we're going to make you a drink, and you asked you, like, maybe I'll do an old-fashioned, and I thought it would be funny if we learned how to do it, since neither of us know how to make it.

Yes, I think it's about that time. Now, are you a drinker? I wouldn't say that, casual, occasional drinker, you know, sometimes go out, take my wife out, you know, we'll get a drink or two, you know. Nice, nice. Yeah. Now what about your Islamic fans? Well, it depends on which side.

If you're talking about the Muslims, they love to drink. Do they? Oh, yeah, they love to drink. They do it all. You'd be surprised. All right, let's, now, do you want to do this, as I tell you? Sure. So two ounces of bourbon.

We have no idea what two ounces looks like. Exactly. But we'll be able to... Just pour. Just pour. All right. And then we're going to do quarter ounce of simple syrup, which we do not have, but we do have the cherries.

So I guess you could pour a bit of that. I don't know if that's two ounces, but... That looks good. Yeah. So I think this is the cheat way, right? Since we don't have simple syrup, you could pour a little bit of that in there and then put a cherry in there as well, right? All right. And then a dash of bitters.

Oh, that looks good. Okay, it's starting to look like an old fashion. And then this is the bitters. We've already lost half of our audience. The who? The who? What is this? Oh, that's the bitters.

So you just want to splash that in. Okay. It'll come out real slowly. You kind of want to shake it to get it. Yeah. Yeah, and that's it. And then start stirring. And then you tell me if that tastes anything remotely like what you have.

We are starting our bartender careers today. This is great. Let's see how this is. So I'm the guinea pig. I got a try. Well, I guess I feel like I got a coffee. I got a water. No, we're going to have some.

Lagovolum. Yes, this is what you all came here for. Pints and bartending and apologetics. It's with God logic. All right, let's see, let's see. I hope I stirred it good. I think that looks pretty stirred. All right, cheers.

Sluncher, cheers. All right, let me know. You don't pretend. You're allowed to hate it. See, there's no sugar in that. You know, I think it's just, I taste more of that than anything. Yeah. But it's still smooth.

Good. Just like an old fashion. I don't believe you. That was not a very convincing. Look, it's not delicious. I'm not lying. Alcohol is never good. right in what sense it's never it never tastes good does alcohol taste good yeah

it depends on the alcohol what I mean have you tried wine or yeah okay so she'll pain yeah whatever but yeah like the red wine is you know kind of you don't like that no man my wife she loves wine my cousins they yeah they love wine but yeah maybe it's I don't know I think when I was young I hated alcohol but I pretended I liked it because I wanted to be cool or whatever But then I just, I don't know, your palate changes and you start liking disgusting stuff. No way. I don't think that I can ever take a drink and be like, Mmm.

Delicious. Then why are you drinking it? Well, you know, it's nice. You know, I'm with Matt Frat. You know, I gotta feel good. All right. Well, I'm so excited to kind of expose you to a lot of our audience. I'm sure many people who are watching know of you, but I'm sure there's a lot of Catholics who are like, who is this guy.

So who are you? Yeah, man. So my name's Avery, run God Logic Apologetics. We do a lot of ministry to non-Christians, so Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Hebrew Israelites, any type of Unitarian heretics. We like to engage with people who really largely deny the deity of Christ, deny the Trinity, don't know why the Bible is reliable. And so we present the gospel and we present Christianity in a very logical and methodical, you know, methodical way. So that's what we do. Try to make it fun, you know, be authentic, be myself. Did you bring your chef how? I did not. Because I'm really glad, actually. Yeah, because

if you had it, I would start sweating. Yeah, yeah, that would be a bad sign. But I'm not cooking today, you know, we're friends. For now. We know. For now, we'll see. I'm sure we'll remain it. Okay. So how did you, because I started hearing about you, I think from Mike Jones, David Wood told me about you. So we have some mutual friends there. And so I've watched you interact with different Muslims online. Like everybody else, I was really impressed with how you did that. Thank you. How did you get into it?

So, really, it started with, I started with Jehovah's Witnesses in like at a community college. I saw them. I was like 20 years old, young minister in my church. So I think I know something. So I went over there to ask them questions, you know? And long story short, they stumped me when it came to the deity of Christ. They showed me the verses in Coloss.

where it says he's the first born of all creation. And I didn't know how to read in context. I didn't know how to answer that. I was frozen. Back hairs were standing up. And he put his hand on my shoulder and said, look into this, do some more research. I'll never forget that. And I'll never forget him. So that led me into really diving into learning the Bible, learning how to read it in context,

learning how to defend it, because that's so different from just reading the scripture and you're doing, you're doing, you're doing, you know, you're doing it. and you're doing your, you're spending time with God and your personal time, but then you have to defend it? That's a completely different thing. You never think to defend the Bible, right, or your beliefs. So once I was like, dang, I don't know how to answer this. So then I know my peers who are on the same level as me, they don't know how to answer this.

And I thought we were like above like the average Christian. So that would mean that the average Christian cannot answer or defend their faith on simple things like this. So I was like, yeah, nah. I got to get equipped. and I got to help equip the saints. So that's what led me into running into videos where I'm seeing Muslims, the guy named Zachar Nike.

He's, Jesus is not God, show me one unambiguous verse, one unequivocal statement of what Jesus himself says, I am God worship me, you know? Very good. And I'm like, man, so he's loud, he's got this bravado, thousands of people in the stadiums are clapping and cheering. He's citing off verses. I'm like, who is this dude?

He doesn't know what he's talking about. So that's what put me on to Islam. I was like, okay, yeah, this group is louder and more voistrous than the others. So that's when they became like, they got my attention. So when you went to study what the Jehovah's Witness had pointed out to you, was there any part of you that thought he might be right and I might have to change? Or it was more like, I know you're wrong. I just don't know how to answer it.

Exactly. That's what it was. I knew he was, because I knew it. I knew Jesus was God in the Bible. I just, in the moment, I had no, I was stuck. I was stuck. I never seen, I read that verse.

It's the thing. I read the whole Bible before that. I read Colossians one before. I never, but that just seems brand new to me. Isn't that crazy how that works? Oh, it is. No, absolutely. I mean, there's times I'll just read the scripture in prayer and I'll be like, where did that come from?

It's never been there before. So how would you have responded to that Jehovah's Witness today? Oh, yeah, perfect. So if, if. And lay out the argument. Yeah. again and then respond to it. Yeah, so the argument is, is that Jesus cannot be God

because Colossus 1, verse 15, says that he's the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation. So this means, they'll say that Jesus is the first born of creation, meaning he's the first thing that Jehovah God ever created. He's the very first thing. And then Jehovah the Father used him to create everything else. So Jesus is the first thing ever to come into existence. And so the problem with that is

is that the term firstborn in the Bible is used many ways. It's not just used in a literal first thing in order, but can also be used to mean a position of supremacy or preeminence. So the context will tell you. So, for example, you have Psalm 89, verse 27, where God says about David,

he says, I will make him my firstborn the highest of the kings of the earth. David's the youngest. of his brothers. He was the second king of Israel, not the first, nor was he the first king of the earth. So why in the world is God calling David his firstborn? He just told us the highest of the kings of the earth, meaning he's supreme or preeminent over the kings of the earth. It's a position. You have another example. Joseph had two sons, Manessa and Ephraim, right? And God says that Ephraim is my firstborn. Not Vanessa. Manessa is the oldest. Why is?

is God calling Ephraim the firstborn because it's a position of supremacy. And you'll see in Genesis that Jacob says that the younger will be greater than the older and that he will have that position. So in context now, what is the question? How is Paul using the term firstborn? The next verse says, see, if I would have read the next verse, Matt, I would have been, we would have been good. Because the next verse literally says, for, so because by him, all things were created. In heaven or on earth, visible, visible, thrones, principality's powers, all things were created through him and for him, and he's before all things, and in him all things consist. Amen. So it just told me why he's called the firstborn, because he's preeminent over creation, not part of it. He's the creator. So that's how

you answer now. I wish I knew that at the time. If I were you, I'd be like wandering around airports, hoping to bump into it. I'm telling you right now. Please give me that. I want him. I will never forget his face. Young, handsome, about 6'1. You know, I'll never forget the guy, man.

But he was a blessing in disguise for real because he pushed me, God used him to push me in this area. And man, it's been such a blessing ever since. So years ago, a husband and a wife in Lithuania sent me one of their handmade rosaries, and I was so struck by it, the weight, the quality, the care in every detail. It was seriously the most beautiful rosary I'd ever seen.

Now, in collaboration with Theotokos Rosaries, I'm making two of their hand-crafted rosaries available to you over at Dailywire.com slash shop. Italian olive wood, gold, plated brass, micro-braid cord built for a lifetime of prayer, each one made by hand in Lithuania. These are not just beautiful rosaries. They can be family heirlooms that you would pass down. Use for personal devotion. You could also give them as a wedding gift, ordination gift,

confirmation gift, or for graduation. Now, the first batch sold out right away. So, pre-order yours now at dailywire.com slash shop before the next batch is gone. That's dailywire.com slash shop. I want to get on to Islam, but let's stay with the D-W. Not the DW, that's who I work for. Let's start with the JWs stick on them for a bit. They also deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit and deny the divinity of the Holy Spirit.

Yes. How do you respond to that? Yeah, so it's really quite interesting because I've been running this topic actually a lot for the past few weeks on my live streams. The Holy Spirit is a person, prove me wrong. Inviting Jehovah's Witnesses up. Now, they're not supposed to come up. They're not supposed to join the streams. They're trained to flee.

That's right. They're trained to evade. They won't take any pamphlet you give them or book you give them. Exactly. So the fact that I'm even getting Jehovah's Witnesses to participate is a miracle and they're going against their watchtower, but maybe they don't know. I ain't going to snitch. But so I've been running this stream and the answers that I get is very interesting. They'll say that the Holy Spirit is, for example, he's Jehovah's active force.

He's the power by which Jehovah accomplishes his will. And I'm like, okay. So you're saying that because the Holy Spirit is the power of God, that therefore, that disqualifies it from being a person, they'll say yes. I say, okay, well, in 1st Corinthians chapter 1, verse 24, it says that Jesus is the power and the wisdom of God. Is Jesus a person? Yes. Okay. So then being the power of God does not disqualify personhood. So why is it that the Holy Spirit is not a person but Jesus is? Well, the Holy Spirit doesn't have a name. A person's have names. The Holy Spirit doesn't have a name, really. So then in Matthew 2819, when he says,

go and baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Jesus just said the Holy Spirit has the same name as He and the Father. Right? Yes, but so he does have a name. So then why is it that you're saying that he's not a person? Well, it's personification, you know, you know, wisdom is personified and anthropomorphic language. Exactly. Anthropomorphic language in Proverbs, but here's a difference. Proverbs literally has, like, that's the theme. The theme of Proverbs is anthropomorphism and metaphors and similes describing wisdom and knowledge and, you know, all that kind of stuff, right? But you don't see wisdom in reality and in historical context interacting with other persons. But you see the Holy Spirit.

For example, you have Acts chapter 13, verse 2, where it says that as they were ministering to the Lord, The Holy Spirit said, set apart for me, Barnabas and Saul, for the work to which I have called them. And then they did it. They listened to the Holy Spirit and sent Paul and Barnabas out. So you have the Holy Spirit interacting with other persons in real time, conversing, commanding, deciding, giving jobs and assignments. You don't see wisdom doing that in reality. You also have the Holy Spirit in Acts 15. the apostles after their counsel says,

it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit to not assign anything to you other than these things, these essentials. Why in the world are they saying that the Holy Spirit approves the same way that they approve? They're persons. So everything we're seeing,

the Holy Spirit has a mind, has a will, speaks. He can be grieved, can be grieved, right? All of these things that require personhood, but yet you want to strip him of personhood. All the reasons why you say he's not a person are the same reasons I guess I can say Jesus is not a person. Well, he just, he's, he, he, he, he does everything by the father's will. Isn't that what Jesus says? He says, I don't

do anything of my own will, but of my father who sent me. But Jesus is a person. So none of this stuff works. So, and it's been really, I, I'm surprised it's been super effective, really focusing on the Holy Spirit with them. Interesting. In my, in my streams, um, on the first, First three strains, man. There's Jehovah's Witness. He kept coming back. Kept coming back. And it started with the Holy Spirit.

And once it started with the Holy Spirit, he was so shocked. He went to his wife and said, well, have you seen this? It says Jesus is also the power of God like the Holy Spirit. Have you seen this? She says, no, I've never seen that. They're African. And that shook him. Once he saw that, it was a rap.

He then began to question everything. And then by the third stream when he came back, he left the organization. Once we showed him that the Watchtower claimed to be a prophet and we're false prophets. So God has been working. The Holy Spirit is extremely important when it comes to ministry, truth, guidance. Can't leave him out. And so do you think that is a good tactic to take with the Jehovah's Witnesses, maybe kind of steering away from where they might want to lead you, say God's name or things like this?

And I also want to know what you think about appealing to failed prophecies by the Watchtower. Yeah, I think that, I think that, well, it's always, interesting because it depends on who you're talking to. But yes, I think it's a good tactic with Jehovah's Witnesses to kind of focus on the Holy Spirit a bit. Focus on the Holy Spirit because what the Watchtower teaches about the Holy Spirit is blatantly wrong. Now, it's blatantly wrong about everything, but the Holy Spirit is a special case because it's so obviously wrong. Like, when you show them these things of the Holy Spirit, being having personhood interacting and, you know, all this kind of stuff, it makes them think. It makes them really think. And in my experience, they don't really

evade that. If you're talking about Jesus and proving his deity, they'll kind of evade that. They'll pick up that you're a Trinitarian and they won't want to talk to you. But in my experience so far with the Holy Spirit, I've been able to get long conversations with them and plant these seeds and really get their gears turning. So that's good. And also, watch Tower Society false prophecies, show, but you got to show them, though. Like, you can't just tell them. You have to show them, hey, here's the magazine, here's the scan, here's the date, this is what they said. And for those who are watching, who aren't familiar with it, give us a bit more context. I'm talking about, I'm sure you are too, about the end of the world and things like this. Yeah, so, yeah,

they had like, I think it was like, like three times. I might be thinking, it might be more than that. I forget, yeah. But there were, there are three times to my memory that they said that the world is ending. They got people to sell their homes, quit their jobs, quit school, not put their kids in school, and give everything to the watchtower, sew into the watchtower, the kingdom hall. I mean, there's a house in San Diego still to this day that was built a mansion, big old mansion. They said that they built it up for the prophets and the patriarchs like Jacob and Abraham to come when they're resurrected to live in this haven for them, to keep them safe.

And so they put their money together to build this big old mansion and that one guy, I forget his name, but it's a video on my channel. This one guy lived there until he died. He enjoyed that mansion. Nobody else did. So you could go in San Diego, you could go visit that house or you could see it.

You can't go on the premises, but, yeah, it's bad, man. Yeah. So even though you were kind of, you kind of maybe gained your apologetics chops through interacting with the JWs. It sounds like you went on to Islam a lot, which preps you, right, to talk about why Christ is gods, you hear them saying things like that.

Oh, I already know that you're wrong. Exactly. But are you circling back to Jehovah's Witness ministry now? Yeah, yeah, that's what it's been like. So it's funny. Started with Jehovah's Witnesses, led it to Islam. I'm going to be so many death threats you could take.

Yeah, you know. Let's go back to the... You know, I feel loved when I get those type of threats. You know, if I'm not getting those, I feel like I'm, I ain't doing it right. Are you getting them? All the time. Okay. Me, my wife, my wife, they're making so much slanderous stuff about my wife, creating

AI pictures of her and their family and stuff like that. It is what it is. It's what Jesus says is going to happen. Blessed are those who are persecuted for my name's sake, those they will revile you. They will slander. He literally says, Matthew Five, they will slander you. They will revile you. But blessed are you for you for.

they did this to me and the previous prophet. Does your wife have that same attitude? Yes, she does. Lord of God. She's literally my other half. We'll see the threats. We'll see the tweets. And we will laugh.

We might share them with each other just to get a joke out, you know? But that stuff is funny to us because we know who the real enemy is. It is really interesting, eh? Because if you go after a Mormon, as I've done in the past, or different types of Christians

for different things, you don't get back death threats. No, no, you don't. And you don't even get back unsurious death threats because it would show that you're not a serious Christian. Yeah. But it seems like you're getting death threats

both privately but also publicly. Yeah. If they don't see it as a contradictant to Islam because it isn't. Because it isn't. But here's the thing. You'll have, you'll get this little fringe group of Muslims who will address the Muslims

that are sending death threats or slandering and stuff like that. You'll have these little fringe groups of Muslims like, this is not Islamic, this is against the prophet and stuff like that. And unfortunately, they're wrong. This is Islamic. This is what Islam does. This is what Islam teaches. Muhammad would have people killed for making poems about him, criticizing him.

You know, there was a story where this man's wife, she would ridicule Muhammad. and the man would tell her to stop, and she wouldn't. She would keep criticizing and ridiculing Muhammad until one day he killed her in her sleep. And the next day, you know, he gets presented to Muhammad, and he gets let go, you know?

He's not at fault, right? He doesn't get punished. It's okay. He took matters into his own hand. He's defending Muhammad. This is Islamic to do this. It's un-Islamic to defend... To say it's a religious.

Yeah, to say it. That's, yeah, you know. Now the pushback you'll get immediately and what people are already thinking about and maybe commenting on is the Old Testament is filled with violence and not just violence, but violence that was authorized by God. So it's the exact same thing. Yeah. You're just cherry picking those verses that would make Islam a more brutal, violent religion. Yeah, absolutely not. So what we have in the Old Testament, you'll have contextually one, God didn't send Israel to go attack all the nations of the world. He gave them a specific land with borders. And the reason why he even gave them this particular land is because he let the sin rise within Canaan for over 400 years.

And he said, this is what he says to Abraham in Genesis 12. This is the land I'm going to give you. But not now. Not yet for the sin hasn't been complete yet. And so that shows you how patient God was with his wrath and judgment against the Gentile nations before he came and like a soldier and sent his army to flush them out. Right. So that's number one. It's very specific.

It's specific land, specific borders, specific people. He didn't send Israel as a war entity against everyone. You know, kill all infidels. No, it's not like that. So unlike Islam, you are to fight the discipline. believer where you find them. You are in chapter 9, verse 29, fight those who disbelieve in Allah in the last day, in the messenger, nor forbid what, they forbid whatever, nor follow the religion, among the people of the book, Jews and Christians, until they pay the jizia and

feel themselves seduced. Had nothing to do with them being attacked, had nothing to do with the Jews and Christians coming against Muhammad. It's because they didn't believe. Simple. They don't believe. So that's why you subjugate them, you know? So when a Muslim tells you actually Islam is a religion of peace and you're just, you're just cherry picking or you're just pointing to bad examples of terrorists, what do you say that actually helps convince them or shows them that they're wrong? Well, I don't use terrorists. I don't point to any outside Muslim to say, Islam is bad. I show what Muhammad taught and what the Quran teaches. You go to the source. I go to the horse's mouth man

and so I'll pull up their scholars because they're big they're really huge on their scholars they call them tafsir their commentaries I'll pull up their scholars and what they say about the verses in their context I'll show them what Muhammad says in the Hadith backing up like back in this

all of this is saying the same thing Islam is not some go lucky believe what you want and you're all good for us no if you have the numbers when Islam has the numbers subject it everybody be this should be Muslim yeah you should be this is an Islamic nation right so that's what this is what it teaches what I've found interesting is you know a year or two ago I might do an episode like

this on Islam how we can reach out to our Muslim friends and bring them to Christ yeah and but what's changed is if I do it today and we'll get this you'll see it in the comment section people will accuse us of being it's so bananas masad agents you see that right or carrying water for Ben Shapiro or something like this. In other words, I think that the Mohammedans are capitalizing on what could be called, some anti-Semitism on the right, say, no, you're right.

And look, we honor your prophet and Jesus. And are you seeing this or is it just me because of... No, it's not just you, man. They will use any type of rhetoric, type of agenda to push Islam. And so that, it's easy for, like there's this connotation

behind Jews and Israel that it's so evil and it's taken over the world and they're behind everything to where Muslims need use that to say, see, this is just Jewish propaganda, you know, this is really isn't Islam, this is what they're

pushing towards you. That's why you guys think this. No, sorry, we've read the Quran. Sorry, we have the internet now. Anybody can pull up a Pahid, pull up a Quran verse, pull up your Tafs here in commentaries and read it for themselves. People have caught on and are catching on. You know, some people say that the worst thing that happened in Islam was the Internet. And it's true.

The Internet has been such a detriment to the Islamic community, especially the youth. Now, is that true or is that just a Christian puffing his chest and being hyperbolic? Because that's what people do on YouTube. Brother, there are videos of imams and shakes. You'll see it on like David Woods Channel, Apologetics Road Show. he covers this, where they are having their meetings and they're talking about the problem of apostasy, especially among the youth, in between like 16, 15 years old to college. And they're leaving Islam. They're apostasizing. And it's a problem. Now, are they apostasizing to hedonism and atheism? Well, it'll be atheism, atheism or Christianity.

Okay. Those are the two that they're... And are they apostatizing because they don't want to love... live as faithful Muslims or because they think it's false? Because they think it's false. They think it's false because it's interesting. They'll go to their imams or sheikhs with questions and the imams and shakes are shutting them down, saying that they're not a believer for asking such questions or thinking too much. They're not supposed to think this far.

But at the same time, they're in a Western college that's inviting them to think and inviting them to ask questions. So it's kind of like this dynamic of why is it that in my religion? and my shakes and my mom's who I trust, why are they telling me not to question and think, but my professors and my college, you know, classmates, my Christian friends, they're telling me to think and they're pushing questions

and I want to, but they're telling me not to. It's a, it's a, it doesn't go together, it doesn't fit. So, and it's, it's coming off like, yeah, this is, some's off here and they're leaving. They're leaving. The more they question, the more they see things. There are videos are coming up. across them in context, right? They're seeing their best debaters get demolished, not be able to answer truthfully, the

arguments that we're bringing up, you know, using their sources. There's nothing to argue it. Yeah. So. And what are the inconsistencies or falsehoods that are being discovered by these young Muslims because of the internet? The biggest thing that I've seen that has the effect on Muslims is the character of Muhammad, finding out that Muhammad slept with.

with Aisha when she was nine years old and finding out that the Quran allows for men to marry, divorce and sleep with prepubescent girls, finding out that Muhammad had slaves and didn't free all slaves like they're told. This stuff really shakes them, it rocks them to their core. So why wasn't that data available prior to the internet? I mean, people can read. It wasn't translated. It wasn't translated. It wasn't translated. And it was. wasn't, and when it was translated, it wasn't to the masses, you know? So not a lot of people, especially on the Western side, had access to all this. So, but now we do. Now we have access to all this. And now you see Sahi Bukhari and Sahi Muslim and Aisha saying Muhammad married me when I was

six and slept with me when I was nine. That's all over the place now. You can't hide it. What do Muslim scholars say about that? Do they try to rebuke it? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you get different, different scholars. So some scholars, are like, you know, this isn't, you know, it isn't definitive. You know, there's some reasons to say that she was older and stuff like that. There's not a single hadith, not a single authentic hadith that says otherwise that she was nine, other than nine, when he slept with her and consummate of the marriage. Not a single authentic hadith says otherwise. They're all consistent.

And not that it matters, but roughly how old was Muhammad? Mohamed was in his 50s, almost 60. That's disgusting. Yeah, about 54, 55. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know.

Yeah, well, you know. Did you see that fella debate Michael Jones on child marriage? Yes. Yes. And defended it? Yes. And, and, but, so, but that's the thing. That is real, as, see, as much as we, man, that's disgusting.

That's real Islam. Daniel Heikinji was one of the rare ones that is like, yeah, says that's so. So what? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what? Like he's, that's real Islam.

He's not. hiding it. Does he have a lot of critics online? I don't mean from Christians. I mean from Muslim. Yeah, from Muslims. Yeah, a lot of Muslims hate Daniel. What, trying to get him to shut up. Yeah, trying to get him shut up. That he's off. Um, you know, his, his, his, his Akita or like theology is, is off and not really conducive to Dawah, like evangelism. So, yeah, they don't like him. But there's also Muslims that do because he's wrong. He's, he's not, he's not hiding the faith and, you know, unapologetic about it. So, yeah, it's a mix, you know. Um, um, But yeah, so on the other hand, you have scholars that will say, yeah, we need to stop, like, hiding this, stop lying.

We don't need to lie about Aisha and the Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him. You know, this was okay. This is what he did, you know? So what? We don't need to lie about this or hide this. It is what it is. So you have that side, that side of the spectrum, you know? So it depends on who you get, you know what I'm saying?

For the most part, what you'll see on the Internet is them try to sugarcoat it, try to put it under, try to give excuses. or justify it in some ways. Oh yeah, back then, you know, a nine-year-old was like an 18-year-old now. And so, you know, they matured faster because of the heat of the desert. That's their real responses. So, yeah. If you walk through almost any modern city, you'll eventually encounter a building that looks like it was designed to punish you.

Concrete box fluorescent lights, which are the worst, maybe a sculpture outside that that looks like an industrial accent. and then you walk into a Gothic cathedral. There is such a difference, isn't there in our experience, walking into an ugly building versus walking into a beautiful building? At some point, you have to ask, how did the same civilization that built Notre Dame eventually decide that beauty was just optional? Well, that's part of what Bishop Robert Barron explores in his new documentary, Heaven in Stone and Glass, traveling through five of France's great, Gothic cathedrals, Bishop Barron shows that their beauty wasn't incidental. The architecture

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see what we can do about the next million. Subscribe to save 15% forever on seven weeks coffee.com slash pints. Use promo code pints for an extra 10% off your first order. That's seven weeks coffee.com slash pints. All right. Well, in addition to the problematic character of Muhammad, are there other things that young Muslims are seeing? Yeah, so they're told a lot. They're told, Muhammad's the best moral example. So you get past that, they're told, there's scientific miracles in the Quran.

They're told the Quran is the only book that has been perfectly preserved, letter for letter, dot for dot, unchanged since the time of Muhammad, peace be upon him, right? This is what they're told. They're told that there's no contradictions in the Quran. And if you can find me one contradiction,

I'll leave Islam. Like you'll see these video, they're told this. They're told that there's nothing. like the Quran. You can't bring anything like the Quran. These are challenges from the Quran itself, by the way. Bring something like it. If you can, if it's not from God, bring something like it. Bring something similar. You know, these are challenges in the Quran. And so they're grown up.

As they grow up, they're told like these things. Like one Quran, nothing like it. You know, you can't match it. You know, there's no contradictions while the Bible's been corrupted and, you know, has all these contradictions and who's Matthew, who's Mark, who's John. We don't know these guys, but we have one prophetist from God word for word. It's not the words of Matthew and Mark and Luke. It's the words of Allah, subpoenaed Allah. So they're told this, they're built up with this. And then when you show them otherwise, Matt, it crushes them.

Some of them have been like, oh, yeah, it's scientific miracles. Quran talks about the heavens and the earth and the big bang and, you know, and the movement on the sun and, you know, embryology and all this kind of. of stuff, like, okay. So you're saying that scientific accuracy in the Quran make it the word of God. Yeah, absolutely. So that would mean the inverse is true, that if there were scientific inaccuracies, then that would mean that the Quran is not from God, right? Yes, okay? So I'll just show you one. I can grant you all the others. I got one for you. And so I show them in chapter 18, verse 86, talks about dual car name, who some say is Alexander the Great. That's what most people

thing. But dual car name, two horns. This guy was traveling and we traveled so far to where he found, the verse says, he found where the sun sets, the setting place of the sun. And it goes on further and says, and he found it setting in a spring of hot muddy water. And he found a people near it living there. Ain't that amazing? So you mean to tell me that this person was able to find the sun setting on the earth in a pool. Nice. That's really scientific. Well, no, it's just his perspective.

It's as if the sun was setting. But it doesn't say that. It doesn't say it was as if he saw it. No, he said if he found it setting here. Not as if, not maybe, not perceptor-wise. But not only that, then you also have Muhammad in a hadith who backs this up. Muhammad's on a journey. He's with his companion.

And the sun is setting. The guy's mind at his own business. Muhammad starts the conversation and says, do you know where this sets? The guy turns to him and says, Allah knows best and his messenger knows best. And so Muhammad volunteers the information and says, the sun sets in a spring of murky water.

So Muhammad matches what the Quran is said. In a spring. In a spring. And this is the problem. If you're going to say that this, the Quran is the word of God, you can't say, well, that hasn't been translated correctly. I'm sure that's what you get told. You don't speak Arabic, do you? Arabic, I beg a pardon?

Yeah, I'll speak Arabic. Yeah, so there you go. So that's, you don't understand. I don't understand. I'll get it. Yeah, you're reading English translations or you're reading, so that's, I'm sure you get told that. Yeah, I'll get told that. And so I'll then respond to, well, unfortunately then, I'm sorry for all my English Muslims out there. You guys cannot know your religion because you're reading a book that you can't. that you can't understand.

You can't know your God. Good answer. That's unfortunate. What do they say to that? Well, no, you can. Oh, okay, so then I can't understand what I'm reading then. Don't bring that up. That's irrelevant, right?

Let's not be inconsistent. It's either this English translation is good for me or it's not. But then, here's the thing, though. I don't rely on the English translation. I'm with them. See, with the Bible, I like to, if I have a problem with the translation, I'll go to the Hebrew and the Greek and the Aramaic. I do the same for the Quran.

I'm going to go to the Arabic to see what. really says. We have the scholars and their commentators that did this for us. You know, we have Did you see that recent debate between Sam Shammoon and that Muslim scholar? Yeah, Dr. Nasser, yeah. And Sam Shammun just took him apart. Sam Shimon taught him. It was a, it was not a debate. It was a lesson. That's what somebody said in the comment. This was a classroom with a teacher. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah, he was teaching. Sam is formidable. Yeah. But that's what he would do. he would make the Muslim read it word by word. And he kept forcing him to go back to Arabic.

When you make them read their own words, you know, and they say it out loud, it becomes real for them. Yeah. And they can't, you can't escape. You just read it. I'm right in thinking that was probably universally recognized as a train wreck for Islam, that debate, correct? Or are there Muslims trying to say that Sam didn't do what... Yeah, you're going to always have Muslims that are going to be like, yeah, Sam got baked, Talogic got baked, David, you got cooked, you know. You're always going to have that.

Sam doesn't know what he's talking about. He's twisting it, you know. Dr. Nasser did a good job answering this. Sam just didn't understand or Avery didn't understand. Yeah. You're always going to get that. So universally, no. But objectively, yes.

Right? This is kind of different. I got three arguments for you, for Islam. All right, all right. And once I give you these, you're going to repent of your Christianity. And you're going to have to make an apology video. Okay, I'm ready. And some of these are similar to what we've already said.

no human being could have produced a book like the Quran. Its literary excellence, preservation, and depth point to a divine source. Hmm. Can I share something with you? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to share something with you. Now, when you record this and put this up, are you going to put sources on the screen? No.

Or can you? We can if you want. Okay, yeah. Just for the edification of the audience, I'm going to share with you a authentic hadith that I really love to share with this idea that no one, can ever come up with something like the Quran because someone did it already multiple times in Muhammad's time. Matter of fact,

you're going to see this. I think that you'll love this right here. So let me go to, we're going to go to Suna.com is where we get a lot of the Hadith. Okay. Which is really good. Thank you for them. Now, sometimes they're always changing. They're going in and editing the... Really? Yeah. I have screenshots where a Hadith said, like the Hadith was translated one way

four years ago where now it's and a problematic statement yeah yeah not just benign statements exactly yeah problematic ones so um all right so this is sahi bucari 402 now what is that yes so si bucari this is a hadith especially for for sunni muslim specifically sunni muslims make up the majority of of islam and so sai bucari is basically the second in command and authenticity to the Quran to them. So this is how authoritative Sahi Bukhari and its contents are. They can't deny this. Okay. So in Sahi Arabic, that means authentic.

So the narrations, the stories, the events within Bukari, Sahi Bukhari are authentic. Okay. Now, this is what it says. In light of no one can come up with this, right? Nobody, nobody can come up with the Quran. All right. Narrated Umar.

Umar is a companion of Muhammad. He says, my Lord agreed with me in three things. One, I said, oh, Allah's messenger, I wish we took the station of Abraham as our praying place for some of our prayers. So came the divine inspiration, quote, and take you the station of Abraham as a place of prayer. That's chapter 2, verse 125. Okay. So, Umar said something. Yep.

And then suddenly it got revealed in the Quran. Okay. So this verse came from Umar, not Allah. Okay. Umar said something so good that it made it into the Quran. Okay. Let's go with another one, because he keeps going. He said he agreed with me in three things.

So it continues, he says, and as regards the verse of the veiling of women, I said, Oh, Allah's messenger, I wish you ordered your wives to come. themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them. So the verse of the veiling of woman, the woman, was revealed. That whole sentence is from the Quran? Yep. Yeah.

Could it not just be, could someone just argue that he was something of a prophet that God had preordained him to say what he already wanted to do? Now, there's a problem. There's not supposed to be a prophet other than Muhammad. Muhammad is the seal of the prophet. He's the last one. And in between him and Jesus, there were no prophets. So it's Jesus.

Well, if not a prophet, what else might you call him to say that he was inspired in that moment to say? He can't. So he would be a prophet, a messenger. But Muhammad is supposed to be the last one. There's no other way around this. If there's, it's either, Umar is making this up, right, off of his own whims. And so therefore, the Quran is manmade in some of its places, came from Umar. Or Umar is a messenger of God and was receiving divine revelation.

from... I'm going to just... Yeah, go ahead. What if he wasn't a prophet? He wasn't receiving divine revelation. But people can be inspired in a way that isn't prophetic. People can see things that ought to be one way, perhaps, such as in this situation, women veiling. Maybe he just used his natural reason and said that.

But his natural reason is not supposed to be as good as the Quran's reason. Remember, the challenge is bring something like it. You can't. but bring something like it like the Quran right this Quran is completely unique you can't mimic it you know you can't bring a verse like it you can't bring a chapter like it I see

but Umar is bringing verses like it so much like it that it goes into the Quran so when people say something like this it's literary excellence and so on what if they would have said to you no I'm not talking about it individual verse I'm talking about it collectively sure well that's not what the Quran so the Quran says it has that it says bring a

chapter like it, bring a single chapter like it, bring 10 chapters like it, but it also just says bring something like it. Okay. Right? So it can be, it's a, it can be a verse, it can be a chapter, 10 chapters. It doesn't matter. You can't, you can't arbitrarily limit like, oh, no, it really means bring an entire book like it. That's not what the Quran said. It says it in many ways. Bring something like it. The Quran itself says it. The Quran and says it. Yes, about the Quran. Yes, as a challenge. Yes, as a challenge. Like Michael, who is like on to go? Exactly. So, then And it's like, okay, boom, all right. So all.

Something like it. Yes. All I got to do is show you somebody bringing something like it. It doesn't even have to be exact. Now, here's the thing about this. This is not just like it. It's his statements are ending up in the Quran. So what he's saying is Quran verses.

Before their Quran verses. Right? I see. So how in the world is this from God? Either Umar is a prophet receiving revelation or it's manmade. One final objection. You say that Muhammad is meant to be the last prophet. Well, suppose Umar died prior to Muhammad, you could still argue that Muhammad is the last prophet.

Well, no, they say he's the, he's the last prophet that comes. So he's, he's the, his advent is, is it. Well, perhaps he was born after Umar. It doesn't matter. If he's, if he's born after Umar still in their hadith, Muhammad says there's no prophet or messenger in between me and Jesus. Oh, I see. So Umar being in the middle of that, I see, I misunderstood.

Yeah, that's helpful. So it messes that all up, you know? So here's his last one. Once the wives of the prophet made a united front against the prophet, and I said to them, it may be if he divorced you that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you. So this verse, the same as I said, was revealed. This is chapter 66, verse five.

Yep. So Umar says three things There's some narrations that I think it's a little bit more But three things Umar came up with He said it himself That was so good So much like the Quran That it ended up in there

Now a Muslim might argue Well it's not exactly like when you look at the Arabic It's not word for word the same Well the challenge isn't to bring the exact same thing The challenge is to bring something like it Something similar This is it You know

Yeah So someone in Muhammad time did it multiple times. He did it already. Fair enough. What about the preservation? That's something that's often spoken about. And you alluded to that area earlier, but how do we know that the original Quran wasn't preserved the way it's said to have been? Yeah, there's two ways you can go about this because this is actually huge. This is really, a lot of Muslims banked their faith on the Quran being perfectly preserved. So when they say preservation, they're saying no letter, no word, not a dot is changed from the beginning. Everything has been perfectly

contained and preserved, right? So there's two ways. You can show them, well, there's three ways, actually. Here's one way you can do it. One way you could do it. You know what? Let's just do it again. Yeah, let's just read.

That's what we say on Godological. We just read. So let me just show you. Let's do five. I guess I have a very simple question. Yeah. Is there one official Arabic manuscript by which all other translations of the Quran are judged against?

No. There's not one, like, authority. You know, you have your different manuscripts and... So then how can you say it's been perfectly preserved if you don't have one instantiation of it perfectly preserved? Exactly. If you had that instance, then you would then... Exactly.

So there's a concept of this, so which would... They'll appeal to what is called the Uthamonic manuscript or the Uthmanic Codex. So Uthman was after Muhammad died, he was the third leader of the Muslim people. And there was a, this is also a situation why the Quran is not perfectly preserved. Matter of fact, I'll save that. I'll show you why, okay?

Let's, we'll get to that in a second. Here, right here is one of the ways you can show why the Quran is not perfectly preserved from within their own history and sources. So this is Sahi Muslim. And this is what it says. It says... What does Sahi Muslim mean? All right, so Sahi Muslim is another collection of Hadid. Just like Sahi Bukhari.

Yeah. That's a collection of Hadith or narration stories history. Yeah. Sahi Muslim is another one, another collection. Now, Sahi, remember, Sahi always means authentic. Okay. So Sahi Muslim is... So you have, look, you have the Quran, top dog.

Sahi Bukari, second under that. Okay. Sahi Muslim is third under that. That's helpful. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So this is from Sahi Muslim.

Muslim. Can't deny it. Authentic, right? Authentic collection. Sayy Muslim 1452A. It says, Aisha reported that it had been, now Aisha's the child bride of a mom and right. So his favorite one. Reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Quran that 10 clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful. Now, just to be for context, these 10 clear sucklings is suckling an adult. Suckling an adult. suckling an adult male so that marriage between you and him is impermissible. Okay.

There was a situation, just for quick context of the funny story. There was a situation where a woman, her husband, was upset because there was this young man who used to come in the house. And the husband was uncomfortable when he would come around his wife.

And so the woman came to Muhammad. And Muhammad said, well, suckle him. And she said, how can I Suckled him is he's a grown man. And then Muhammad laughed. He says, I know he's a grown man. So then she went back and sulkled him. And then it says that the husband never had an issue anymore.

Just to be real clear. And also understanding that there might be some children watching, what do you mean by suckling? You said it might be children watching? No, okay, children stop watching. Parents. Take them away right now. Five.

All right? Four, three, two. What does he mean by suckling? You're going to take your breasts and let this grown man suck your breasts. Why? To make the marriage unlawful. So basically suckling would, if you're suckled from a woman, that's basically like making her your mother. So for them, that would make that relationship unlawful now.

So the husband is like, it's cool now because, Now, she's like a mom to you. So therefore... Could you imagine... Forgive me for being crude, but I mean, I'm just... Could you imagine being like, I don't like the way you're looking at my wife. Hey, wife, put your breasts in his mouth. That'll show him.

What are you doing? Yes. But imagine this... This sounds made up. It's not even... Exactly. But it's not the husband telling her to do that. It's the prophet.

It's Muhammad telling her to do this. Now, I don't know a lot. Okay. To be fair, but are Muslims expected to take these second and third writings with the same level of authority as the Quran? And if they're not, couldn't someone just get around it by saying, well, there's a lot of interpretation in those passages? So this is the tricky part. They're not allowed to. They're not allowed.

They have to take the Sahi tradition, the Sahi Hadith. They have to. They can't reject this. Or else this would mean that they are rejecting Muhammad. right what he did so as a Muslim you you can't go it's the Quran and nothing else no you can't but you do have those you do have Quran only Muslims which Sunni Muslims say are not Muslims Sunni Muslims condemn Quran only Muslims as disbelievers okay right while Quran only Muslims look at Sunnis and say they're disbelievers like how can you believe they'll go through the

hadif and be like how can you attribute these things to the prophet these are disgusting you're making him into a PDF file. You're making him into a pervert. You're making him into a liar, a hypocrite and all this kind of stuff, a monster, you know? This is who your Muhammad is. That's what the Quran only Muslims say to them, to the Sunnis. But then the Sunnis are like, well, okay, without the Hadith tradition, how do you even know what the Quran is? How many times a day do you pray? Because Quran only Muslims, they take, they practice Sunni traditions, but don't attribute it. Because how and how many times you should pray isn't in the Quran? That's not in the Quran. How many times you pray is in the Hadith?

Ramadan is in the Hadith. Now, the Quran mentions fasting, a special day to fast, but they don't know when that is in the time of year. They'll get all this information, these details from the Hadith. Where you even get the concept of five prayers from? Like, there's a verse in the Quran that talks about the night journey. There's a story where Muhammad went on a night journey,

and he went to the heavens, and this is where Allah gave him the order to do the prayers. So there's a verse in the Quran. chapter 17 verse one where it talks about it says blessed is he who took his servant by night from the sacred mosque to the farthest mosque now if you're a Quran only who is that who's that servant that was taken and where was he taken what's the sacred mosque where's that where's that where is the farthest mosque where's that now they say it's mohammed but you're Quran only and it doesn't say it doesn't say that so who is this what's happening where at this

place. They would just have to say, we don't know. Exactly. And so if you say that you don't know, then the Sunnis have a point, right, that the Quran is lacking details and you need the Hadith. But at the same time, here's the inconsistency. The Quran says over and over again, and this is what the Quran only is used against them, that it is a detailed explanation of everything. That's chapter 12 verse 111, chapter 6 verse 114. It's the detailed explanation of everything. It's a fully explained book. Its verses are precise and detail. There should be no... It should be no ambiguity. I see.

Every verse should be explained either within that same context or maybe somewhere else in the Quran in another chapter. It should be explained in detailed. If it's not, then the Quran is contradicting itself. You have a problem. So this is a problem for both sides, honestly. It's a problem for both sides. But, you know. So what do you think the motivation is for the Quran only people to get rid of these traditional books?

Forgive me, I forget the name of them. The hadith. Does the hadith refer to both of those? things you mentioned earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sahi Bukhari and Sahi Muslim, those would be considered Hadid. Okay, thanks. Yep.

So, yeah, and like I said earlier, their motive is basically to protect the honor of Muhammad. Is that right? Yeah. In the Hadith, Muhammad, I mean, you get into details. So, Muhammad sleeping with Aisha and I, She was selling black slaves, having people unalived, you know, going out and saying, I've been commanded to fight the disbeliever until they say la, la, I la, la, la. Like there's no God except Allah, you know.

So, you know, if I was looking at this, hopefully as an objective observer, one of the ways I could determine whether or not the more faithful Muslim would hold to the Hadith is by asking, did the earliest Muslims hold to it? Yeah. So did they? Yes. I mean, after it was written, of course. Yeah. So the earliest Muslims held to these traditions, these narrations. Okay.

You don't see. Was there any early discrepancy about the Hadith after it? was written by prominent Islamic scholars saying this isn't to be taken with the same? Yes, not with them as a whole, but with certain stories. So like, for example, you have a, you have a, have you ever heard of the Satanic verses? Yes, I have. Yeah, so this is a story where early generations of Islam, they accepted it with no problem. But it's, as time went on, you'll begin to see more of the prominent scholars start to deny it,

start to like cast a shadow on it until now nowadays yeah that's completely weak it's fabricated yada yada yada so when a Muslim is looking to convert today he's watching all these women i guess on tic-tok promoting Islam that's what i'm seeing yeah yeah yep yep um cora is one of them yeah w cora so when they're looking at that they go yeah all right i want to be a muslim do they only then realize oh i got a massive choice to make am i koran only yes and my And what kind of, what are people, what decision are they making? Are they going towards the Sunni or the Quran only? Yeah, they're mostly Sunni.

And why? Well, because that's what they get introduced to. Okay. When they're, when they're, uh, and are they the majority? Forgive me. Yes. So yeah, Sunnis aren't a majority Muslims. They're like, I don't want to be inaccurate with the percentage, but they're the

large, like large, large, large majority. Okay. So you're most likely going to run it. When you run into a Muslim, it's a Sunni Muslim, most likely. And so if you were to ask them about the Hadith, is it the word of God? Would they say, no, it's not the word of God, but it's binding upon us nonetheless? Correct, yeah. So it's not the word of God.

Like, so the word of God for them means verbatim speech of Allah. Yeah. So Quran is verbatim speech of Allah. Allah is the one speaking. He's the one saying these things. But the hadith is... Hadith is, you'll have narrations from what people heard Muhammad say, saw him do. So then if I'm a Muslim who wants to be a Sunni Muslim,

I can say, all right, so the Hadith isn't this direct speech of God, as the Quran is. Yeah. Therefore, I can try to find a lot of workarounds while holding to the Hadith. And is that what you see? You see that all the time. But here's the problem is that there's still so-called revelation contained in the Hadith. So, for example, Muslims believe Jesus is coming back. That's in the Hadith.

That's not in the Quran. They believe in the Antichrist, what they call the Dajal, the false Messiah. That's in the Hadith. That's not in the Quran. So the question would be, says, these are all futuristic in-time events. These in-time prophecies Muhammad gives about the last days. This is Hadith. None of that's in the Quran.

So how does he know this stuff? Well, it has to be divine revelation. Right. So Hadith, even though not verbatim the Word of God, is still not something you want to reject if you're a Muslim who wants to be obedient to Allah. Exactly. Most of us would say our faith shapes the big decisions in our lives. where we worship how we raise our children, what organizations we support. But sometimes it's the

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So we had asked about the preservation and how you know that and you brought the suckling image that threw us all. But maybe I missed your major point as to how that can show that there hasn't been the preservation. Yes, yes. So we didn't even get to finish this. All right. So let's finish it. So Aisha reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Quran that 10 clear sucklings make a marriage unlawful. So you suck a man 10 times, then marriage is unlawful now for you.

you guys. Ten times. Ten times. Not just once. Not just once. Then it was abrogated or substituted by five sucklings. So it got changed from 10 to five in the Quran. And she says, and Allah's apostle died.

And it was before that time found in the Holy Quran. So by the time Muhammad died, the five clear sucklings was the final verse in regards to suckling an adult, right? making the marriage unlawful. I challenge any Muslim. Show me where that verse is in the Quran. It doesn't exist. This 10 clear sucklings, five clear sucklings,

none of that exists in any of your Qurans that you find in any cave, any manuscript, whatever you have in your mosque. It doesn't exist. So, so Aisha's Quran, and their Quran back then is different from the one you have today. Aisha's Quran is different than yours.

Why? If there was only one Quran ever, And just to be clear, it says specifically in the hadith that it's from the Quran. It's, I'll say it again. And then, so, it had been revealed in the Holy Quran. Wow. That 10 clear sucklings make a marriage unlawful. Then it was abrogated, substituted by five clear sucklings.

And the apostle, the Allah's apostle died. And it was before that time found in the Holy Quran. That's what Aisha said. We just read. So you have to say Aisha was wrong. You can say Aisha was wrong. Or you can say, okay, you know what? Yeah, fine.

There are variants in our Qurans. It's not perfectly preserved in the way that I thought. That's perfectly fine too. But don't lie. So which one are you going to do? And is that the dilemma you find that you put a Muslim in? And which one do they often choose? Or is there another option?

Well, so you'll never, well, it's rare that you'll get a Muslim condemned Aisha. But I've had it. You know, you'll have Muslim like, Yeah, Aisha got this wrong. Like, she's tripping, which is crazy. Like, she's the mother of the believers, you know. You can't go against Aisha. But then you'll get Muslims that are like, you know, more and more Muslims are kind of starting to accept this idea.

Like, okay, yeah, there are variances within the Qurans and the histories and stuff like that. No problem. But the meaning of the Quran and the message is preserved. Okay, well, now you sound like Christians. Because that's how, that's what we believe about preservation. We don't believe every single word and dot has to be the same exact from the first time. It's not about that.

It's about the message, the theology, that's preserved. Miraculously, throughout all the persecution, throughout all the burnings, throughout all of the leash. The message of the gospel, who God is, what he wants from us, what the problem is, all of that is still preserved in the scriptures,

even with our variances. So what you're saying then is, if you were to go on your live stream and invite Muslims to debate that the Quran is perfectly preserved, there's no way you would lose that. Not a chance. And are there enough Muslims who are catching on to that now? So they wouldn't even show up to debate? No, no, they do.

It's still a big thing that the Quran is the only book that's been perfectly preserved. It's still a big belief and a foundational belief within the Muslim community. More and more, they're starting to see how there's a problem with this. But so if I was a Muslim and I was a Sunni Muslim and I was trying to get around this, I might say the Quran has been perfectly preserved, but the Hadith hasn't necessarily. They'll say that yet. And this is an indicator because we should judge everything by the Quran. We shouldn't judge the Quran by the Hadith. Well, so then here's the problem there.

So now if you're rejecting Sahi Muslim and what Aisha is saying, you have to reject all the other Hadith. Why? How can we trust? If I can't trust this, why should I trust another one? Because maybe that particular verse in the hadith is wrong, and we know it's wrong because the Quran contradicts it. But then we could just say anything else in the hadith that isn't directly contradicted by the Quran. But the Quran doesn't contradict this. There's not a, there's not a.

That's right. It doesn't contradict it. But that implies that the Quran has been preserved or has not been preserved. And since I believe it's being preserved, I have to conclude because of my loyalty to the word of God. So you're just assume, you're begging the question. You're assuming your belief. Unless I had a prior argument for why the Quran is the direct speech of God. If I had an argument for that and could establish it, then I could say, therefore, at least this has to be wrong.

Why? Let's say I grant you that you are able to establish that the Quran is the direct speech of God. How does that change the fact that there's something missing from it? Because, well, what I would do is that's the direct, I see what you mean, because you're saying, It can be the direct speech of God. But still be missing. I see what you mean. But not be preserved.

Exactly. I see. So then I'd have to have an argument for why it's been perfectly preserved. Exactly. Exactly. And you have nothing. There's nothing. You would have no material, all the evidence on my side.

I have your evidence. I have your sources that say that were verses here. And now they're not. I have a, this is one example. I have tons. I got tons. But remember, I said that there was three ways to do this, right? So this was an example of where.

I can go into the Hadith, meaning I can go into their histories and show that according to early Muslims, their Quran is different from yours, right? There's the other way I can do this is I can show you that today I have multiple Qurans. There's so you have what is called this was my point earlier and unless you have a standard somewhere You know, maybe somewhere over in some other yeah If there's multiple translations, which one is the perfectly preserved one? Yeah, now Is there an opinion on that? Well, so here's the thing, all right? Because this is tough.

Because we're not talking about translations. We're talking about Arabic. Yeah. Straight up Arabic, authentic horse's mouth. The only thing is which horse? Which horse is it? Because from the Arabic, so you have what, in 1924, in Cairo, Egypt, they standardized what is called the Hafts recitation of the Quran, the Hafts Quran, H-A-F-S Quran.

Okay. So this is a particular Quran. that became the popular one. And they dunked other books, other Korans in the river. But, however, in Morocco, their main Quran that they use is called the Warsh Quran, which has variances between the Hafts. And then you have other ones, like, so you have Hafts, you have Warsh. These are the two main, like, popular ones that are used.

But then you have other ones that's Duri, you have Kalu, you have Al-Qasai, You have Kathir, a missile one, Khalif, Khalif on Hamza. So you have others, now there's more than this, but I just named seven. These are different Arabic Qurans with variances in them. And I'm not talking small changes like, oh, you know, it doesn't matter. He went or... But even if there were a small translation era, that would be a problem. Exactly.

So this would change your argument, right? I'm showing you, okay, we have different Qurans. We're looking at the same verse in both Qurans. Which one is the perfect reserved one? Exactly. And what is the answer? You're ready. You're ready.

I'm going to give you a chef hat. You're ready. Do you want to stir with this? I don't know, maybe. Thank you. But that's perfect. Oh. Oh.

I dipped into my things. It's over now. That was kind of me to take that. Yeah. I clearly have a spoon, but whatever. You know, just try, you know, keep it going, keep it flowing. But, yeah, exactly, though. So now we have, which one is the preserved one?

Which one is it? Right? They don't have a standard of that. It will be arbitrary, right? I've had Muslims tell me. Now, I've shown them the most popular one, the Hofscar. And I've had a Muslim from Morocco. It's on my video.

It's on my channel. He pointed, I showed them both. The red one was the Hofts, blue one was the wash. He pointed at the Hafts one and said, No, this is incorrect. This is not the real Quran. So where did you get that from? I know this one.

What do you mean? They're both Qurans. They're both legit. Arabic and everything. You can look at them. Yeah, no, this one, this one I know. This is from Morocco. So they will say that, yeah, no, this Quran is incorrect.

This Quran is wrong, which is amazing. If there was only one, none of this would happen. There would not be any discrepancies. There wouldn't be a preference if it was all one thing. Okay. So now this will change the, this is why the argument now has been changing with the Muslims. It's gone from perfectly preservation, word for word, dot for dot, letter for letter, to, okay, there's variances, but the meaning is still the same.

And they'll be okay with that. Yeah, there's variances, there's textual variance, but it doesn't change the meaning. Yeah, it does. You have, I have, for example, one of my favorite variances in the Hafts Quran in chapter 37 verse 12, Muhammad is being mocked for sharing Allah's verses. So it says, Allah says to Muhammad, you were surprised while they mocked. Mm-hmm. Right?

The Arabic is Bel-Jepta. Bel-Ajepta. You were surprised or wondered while they mocked. In the Khalif version of the Quran, it says Belajep2, which is, I wonder, or I was surprised while they mocked. So in one Quran, the Haas Quran, you have Muhammad being surprised while they mocked. In the other Quran, you have Allah being surprised while they mocked. that changes the meaning greatly

because Muhammad's not Allah which one was surprised you know so when you present that question what's the answer I have to look more into this yeah yeah or some might say well both both both were surprised

both wondered why they mocked and that's okay if you want to go with that you want to go with that and say if you want to interpret it that that's fine you have whatever theological view you want on that that's fine but you can't say that the meaning is the same correct Muhammad being surprised and Allah being surprised

are two different meanings, right? They have to say yes. And then they have to look into it or denounce that, you know, they have to change the position. They can't stick with that. So that's the second way. The first way is going through the Hadith,

the histories, showing that early Muslims, their Quran is different than yours, missing verses, stuff like that. Second way is you can show them different Qurans. We have access to different Qurans with variances today.

I can show it to you physically. The third way you can do it is you can demonstrate from the manuscripts that we have available, like the Son-a-Am manuscript or the Birmingham manuscript that they always like to talk about. With the Sana'a-a-a-a-manuscript, and you can see it, anybody can look this up.

When you look at the Son-a-a-a-manuscript, you have the top text and an undertext, meaning someone was writing over, they're erasing, and they're writing over the text, fixing or doing whatever, to the manuscript. And so that's a variant. That's a change. So you can show them these type of different things with these manuscripts,

where in one manuscript, like, the variant is within the top text and the bottom text on the same page. So one, the top verse will say something and the bottom verse, the bottom of it will say something else. Right. So it's like, what are you talking about perfect preservation? In the same manuscript, there's variances within itself. And you have a ton of those examples. So this idea, the Quran is perfectly preserved, man. It's shot.

Fine, but I have a second argument. Okay, fine. And bring it there. Check this out. Muhammad had nothing worldly to gain and endured immense suffering to proclaim his message. The best explanation is that he truly was God's prophet. Is this an honest argument that you hear or not really? It is.

It's an argument. It's not a super common one, but it is. But I mean, if you've destroyed this first one, I've got to go somewhere. Right. So Muhammad had no worldly gain. I want to share something with it. with you. I want to share something with you. Something that the mother of believers, Aisha, said to Muhammad, all right, now watch this. This old, another hadith. Sahi Muslim 1464A.

Ayesha reported, I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah's messenger and said, then when Allah, the exalted and glorious, revealed this, you may defer any one of them which you wish and take for yourselves any wish. So, by the way, this is chapter 33 of the Quran where Allah allows Muhammad to have whatever woman he wants. It's just chapter 33 in the Quran.

And so Aisha's saying, well, dang, I'm feeling jealous at the women that's offering themselves to you, right? She's getting jealous of this. To the point where now it goes on to say, all right, and if you desire any, if you desire any, you have set aside, no sin is chargeable to you. Aisha said, it seems to me, is there talking to Muhammad, it seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desires. Now, this is huge because Aisha, this is an eyewitness. she's a wife of Muhammad

she's with him and she sees these things and she has the insight to say it seems like your Lord hastens to your desires meaning it seems like

whenever you want something a convenient revelation comes down to fulfill what you want this is not coming from us this is coming from Aisha so even according to their own sources Muhammad got what he wanted and benefited greatly by claiming to be a prophet

and having these followers. He can get women. He could get the war booty. No man was able to ever marry his wives. They were uniquely his. You can't, so they couldn't remarry. Couldn't have them. Muhammad had unique privileges for himself

that no one else had. Matter of fact, the Quran limits Muslim men to having up to four wives. Muhammad could have as many as he wants. He had more. What do you mean he didn't have? have any privileges. Yeah, no.

Women, money, rulership authority, power. Power. He got all of that. The ability to take out somebody who is criticizing you? Yep. He got all of that. All of these benefits he got

by claiming to be a prophet of Allah. How did Muhammad die? He got poisoned. So, but the poisoned, it took a long time for it to actually finally do him in. So, but on his deathbed, he said, I feel as if

my order is being cut from the poison. So how he was filling the sickness and whatever was going on inside him, he was filling it from the poison, and then eventually died. Do we know who poisoned him? It was a Jewish woman. Gave him a poison, a lamb, by the way. Imagine that. A lamb slaughtered, killed this.

My point in asking that is whether or not the 12 disciples were all martyred. There's some evidence, obviously a lot of evidence for Paul and Peter, not so much for others, But there is strong evidence that they were all, at least in fear of their life. Yeah. And continue to proclaim what they believed to be the truth, which shows them to be a sincere witness. Yeah. But with Muhammad, I mean, was he ever under great danger of dying?

There were times. Like in the beginning of his ministry, he was. Oh, that's right. Yeah. He was attacked him. And he didn't have the numbers. So he had to flee Mecca and went to Medina. Well, doesn't that show that he was serious or?

Or, uh... Well, sure, I mean, you could be serious and wrong. Yeah. You know, I think that Muhammad, there's layers to it. I don't think it's super black and white. I think Muhammad had a, there was a level of deception to him. I think that he was deceived. Yeah.

I think the evils, he had an encounter with the evil spirit that deceived him. And I also think that it was also his human desire and, you know, his flesh. So I think it's, I think it's both and with him. I think that's right. I often go back to the trilemma that Lewis talks about that the early five. Others talked about, you know, either a God or a bad man. Yeah. And I think when you look at Muhammad, you can just throw these on the table or wherever you're.

All right. Whether you're talking about Muhammad or Joseph Smith, I think to run that same trilemma, it's like, is he a prophet, a lunatic or a liar? I think, yeah, you would have to say, I don't know what you. I think you would use a liar, maybe unstable, what we would call today a narcissist or demonically inspired. Talk about his first interaction with what he perceived to be the angel. Because I think this is some evidence that what he encountered was... Yeah, the man was scared. He thought it was demon possessed.

And that's his word. That's his word. So his first interpretation of what was happening to him was that he was demon possessed. Yep. Yep. And that he was going crazy. So this isn't us. Muhammad interpreted this way.

Yeah. So Christians could go, I just agree with the initial statement of Muhammad. You don't? Exactly. Exactly. Here's the thing. You compare Muhammad's experience to anybody else's of the prophets. You'll never, ever see where an angel comes up and oppresses the person that they're coming to, right?

You'll see where Gabriel and Daniel, and here's an argument Muslims like to bring up. They like to bring up Daniel in comparison to this. Christians criticize this experience. They'll go to Daniel and see, well, when Gabriel showed up to Daniel, Daniel fainted and went mute. Failed to the ground. Couldn't stand up, couldn't talk, right? But here's the difference. Where Muhammad said, I can't read, I can't read.

And the spirit is telling him, read, read, I can't, I can't, I can't read. And he's squeezing him and choking him and oppressing him physically. Right? to where he says, he says, I can't take it anymore. And then he lets him go. And they does it again and lets him go. And it does it over and over again. In comparison to that, Gabriel, with Daniel, when he fainted, he helped him up.

He told him, be of good courage, fear not. For I've come from your Lord. Your Lord has seen you. Your Lord has seen you. Imagine those words. It's one thing to be overwhelmed by an angelic presence, which of course you would be. Yeah. It would be weird if you're like, oh, hey, what's going on?

You would be You would be in awe. Yeah, yeah. And then so for his words to be like, the Lord has heard you, he's seen you and he sent me on your behalf. Be of good courage. Stand up, man of God.

Very different. Very different. Very different. And then he goes on to continue to encourage him. He says, well, so he helps him up, but Daniel's too weak to he, I can't speak still. So Gabriel touches his mouth and gives him strength to speak. He doesn't continue to

oppress him and oppress him. He encourages him and strengthens him. It's the opposite of what we see with Muhammad. It's continuous oppression. So there's no, it's no comparison. It's obviously demonic experience. All right. Well, you have debunked my argument that the Quran is perfectly preserved and has literary excellence. You've debunked my argument about Muhammad having no world nothing to gain. Here's my third and final argument. And this is something I actually posted this on YouTube recently to get these different takes from people. I'm like, what's the best argument? Like, what are you hearing? And so I wonder if you've heard this, Islam teaches the same uncompromising monotheism preached by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. It is God's final reservation,

sorry, relevation, preserving the original faith without later theological innovations. So, the uncompromising monotheism is something that I see, even some Christians who look like they're on the borders of apostatizing, finding attractive. Yeah. Something about the simplicity of it that appeals to them. Imagine having a theology

where you can understand God. It's not God at all. When you can't even understand yourself. Can't even understand yourself. I can't even understand my wife fully. You think that I can understand God. But I guess, yeah, simplicity is attractive to where, and it tickles your ear,

I guess if you have a God that you can comprehend and understand, that's Islam. They offer you a God you can understand. understand and comprehend. But at the same time, can't. It's confusing. But here to answer and deal with this, that the monotheism of Islam is the same monotheism of Abraham, of Jesus, of Moses, of the previous prophets. It's so far from the truth. And here's why. Allah, even if we want to say that, like they believe in this uniperson, when they say strict monotheism, they mean a unipersonal

God, right? Even Trinitarianism is strict monotheism. It's one God that just exists as plurality of persons. But they, unipersonal, a unipersonal God. If this is the case, then why is it that in Genesis 12, I'm sorry, Genesis 15, the word of the Lord comes to Abraham in a vision. It tells him what he's going to do. And, Abraham calls the word of the Lord God and Yahweh. The word says the word came to him in a vision and spoke to him. Now, we know who the word is, is Jesus Christ, pre-incarnate. But then it says that the word then took him outside and showed him the stars and said,

count them if you can. This is going to be what your descendants are going to be like. and Abraham gladly receives his word, gladly worships him, and accepts the promise in the covenant that he's given. By the word. And then we fast forward a few, you know, some generations later, we get Jesus who says that Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it and was glad.

They said, you're not even 50 years old yet. And you've seen Abraham? Before Abraham was, I am. And in John 840, he says that I'm a man telling you the truth that I heard from God and you're trying to kill me. This Abraham did not do. What are you talking about Jesus? When did Abraham have the opportunity to kill you when you told him the truth like these Jews are trying to do? When he came to him as the word and gave him the covenant and the promises the first time.

And Abraham gladly received him. Abraham was not a unipersonal and a unipersonal theology. He believed that the word being distinct from Yahweh, who sent him, was also God as well. This was Abraham's theology. Wouldn't you agree, though, that even if Abraham didn't have the developed Trinitarian theology that, say, Athanasius or we do today, that isn't an argument. Correct. Yeah, he doesn't have to have it developed as it is centuries and generations later. but the fact that he has a different theology at all,

and this is major, this is something little or something slight, this is a major theological discrepancy when it comes to Islam. If Abraham believed in a multi-personal God in any way, he's not a Muslim, and Islam is false. Islam has this new, fringe, foreign theology that they are now trying to apply to Abraham. It's false. But then it gets worse,

because Allah is very clear in the Quran that he is not a father to anyone. He says in chapter 19, verse 93, he says, there's none in the heavens or the earth that can come to the most beneficent except as a slave. You cannot come to him as a son, whether it's metaphorical, literal, whatever. You can only come to him as a slave. However, in the Torah, we see Moses teaching that God said that Israel was his firstborn. God is teaching that Israel is his son, that he's a father, Jeremiah, 31, 9, he says, I am a father to Israel. Jesus teaches that those who believe become sons of God

God are adopted as his children, while he himself is the begotten son of God. Why in the way? So the prophets are teaching that God is our heavenly father. Muhammad is teaching that God is our heavenly master, and we are just his servants. This is a completely different God from the prophets. So this probably brings us squarely into the Islamic dilemma because the Muslim might say, right, well, I follow the Quran, the Torah and the New Testament have been corrupted. So if you don't mind us getting into that. Where did this arise? It sort of kind of came out of nowhere and just. The Islamic dilemma?

Yeah. It seems to me, I don't follow these things. Yeah. Just sort of was it David Wood? Was it? David popularized it. Okay. David, David and Sam, they both popularized it.

And, you know, guys like me who are the next generation, we caught on and learned from them and, you know, have been pushing it like crazy. It's been a, for me, it's been a fundamental, like, I guess, foundation to stand on in regard in my conversation with Muslims. Yeah. Here's why. Because with the Islamic dilemma, it has shown that I don't need to waste my time arguing for the validity of the Bible to a Muslim. The Quran has done all the work for me. And just, this is excellent, do us a favor. For those who are at home, they've never heard of the Islamic dilemma,

can sum it up really succinctly and then break it open? Yep, so in the Quran, it says that it confirms, it came confirming the Torah and the gospel, the scriptures that came before. The scriptures that are in the possession of the Jews and Christians are true, preserved, and authoritative. But at the same time, the Quran contradicts the Torah and gospel in many major ways.

So, here's the dilemma. If these scriptures are true like the Quran says they are, then the Quran is false for contradicting the scripture. If these scriptures are corrupted, then the Quran is still false for confirming corrupted false books. That's it. Boom, boom.

That's it. So if 20% of Christians learned the Islamic dilemma, they'll be able to talk to any Muslim at any level if they learned the Islamic dilemma. You learn that you'll be able to evangelize to Muslims on a large scale. Well, teach us.

teach us. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I know you do on your videos, because you just, in a brief way, like, walk us through how one might present this. Yeah, yeah, here's, here's, um, it's beautiful because so here are, I guess, uh, I'll give you a few verses to memorize. Anybody listening to this? Here are just a few verses you can remember. Because there's tons, but just to keep it simple, you have chapter three, verse three and four. Chapter three, and four, it says, talking to Muhammad, we have sent down to you the book, in truth, confirming that which came before it. Or in the Arabic it says,

Beina Yadehi, meaning that which is between its hands. So you have access to this. It's not just something that the other passing is gone. It's there. You have access to it. But most English translation will say what came before it. No worries. So we send down to you the book in truth,

i.e. the Quran, send it down in truth, confirming what came before it. And we revealed the Torah and gospel before as a guidance and light for mankind. So according to the Quran, the Torah and gospel is a revelation from God for everyone. Not for a specific group, for everyone. Now, here's another one. Chapter 2, verse 41, this beautiful verse.

It says, believe in what we have revealed, talking to the Jews, believe in what we have revealed, confirming that which is already with you. So why should they believe in the Quran and Muhammad? Because the Quran confirms what they have already. so they have no excuse, right? That's chapter 2, verse 41. So it's not, so the Quran is confirming the scriptures that's there. It's, that's the important part. Not, oh, it was revealed before and then got, no, the Quran is confirming what's there in that time, right?

In the seventh century. Okay. And here's another one. It's really beautiful. Chapter 5, verse 43, it says, why, so the Jews, here's the context, Jews were coming to Muhammad for a decision. They didn't want to follow the Torah. They wanted something else. So here's the response in the Quran.

It says in chapter 5 is 43, why do they come to you for judgment when they have the Torah in which Allah's judgment is in? And even still they turn away. What did this verse just say? This verse just said, they don't need you, Muhammad. They don't need the Quran. They have the Torah.

They're good. So this would eliminate this idea that, okay, yeah, once upon the time the Torah and gospel were authoritative. But in Muhammad's time, now it's the Quran. Everybody's supposed to follow the Quran. No, because during Muhammad's time, during the time of the Quran, the Quran still points to the Torah as the judgment for the Jews. A few verses later, chapter 5 verse 47, this is a really good verse for Christians.

It says, let the people of the gospel judge by what Allah has revealed in it. Whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, they are the wrongdoers. So the Quran tells us to judge by our own. books. If we judge by our own books, then we're going to have to conclude the Quran is false because it contradicts our books. Simple. So there's this really dangerous idea that you have to hit rock bottom before you're allowed to ask for help. Well, good news, you don't. If porn is something you're going back to once a week, once a month, whenever you're stressed or lonely or bored, you do not have to wait until

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So wherever you are in this fight, don't wait until things get worse to get serious about getting better. My listeners get a seven-day free trial with code pints. Visit joinrelay.app slash pints or click the link in the description and start your journey today. Hey, if you haven't already heard, DailyWire has a new movie out September 16th on DailyWire Plus called Run, Hide, Fight, Infidels. Here's the trailer. Check it out. Every significant movement in history has started with protesting. You're a traitor. Uncle Tom. This is our generation civil rights.

I have no idea what the protest is about. Bingo. Given the current climate, should a figure as polarized you as Clay Saunders. You can be allowed on campus. Can you hear me okay? Donders is a close personal friend of Chancellor Friedman. This is a decision I cannot fight. Islam will conquer the West.

Islamu'a'u'aqo. Are we paying attention? They've taken over the building. They're downstairs and they've blocked the doors. I seek forgiveness from Allah, the Almighty. We cannot run and hide. Muhammad is the messenger of God. There is no God but Allah.

What do you say? We turn those s-o-bes into a fine red mist. As we move, one man will cover while the other guys go. They call that leap-crime. Stretch them off and listen. You need a course in safe weapons handling. So does the Quran view the Torah and the New Testament the way the New Testament views the Old Testament? Yes.

The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old. The Old is revealed. in the new, the new is concealed in the old. Exactly. So this is why the Christian can say to the Jew, you have to convert, stop being disobedient to the covenant that you have rejected. Exactly. Come to Christ. We can say that. So these verses that you've just laid out is this essentially saying if you were faithful to the Torah, Jew or Christian, if you were faithful to the New Testament, you would see the Muhammad is the prophet and why he fulfills all that's come before. There's a verse that says that if they believe their scriptures, they'll be, they recognize Muhammad like they recognize

their own sons. That's how, that's how clear and consistent the Quran believes it is with the previous scriptures, that it's just an extension of them. You have no reason. If you're truly believers and not hypocrites, you have no reason to disbelieve in me. Because I, look, let me give you a few of my favorite ones. Okay. You know how Jesus says in John 5. He says, you search the scriptures is just thinking that you'll find life in them. But they speak of me. If you believe Moses, you would believe me because he wrote of me.

If you don't believe me, go search the scriptures, right? The Quran says in chapter 10 verse 94 to Muhammad, if you are in doubt about that which we have revealed to you, then go and ask those who've been reading the scripture before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt. What are you talking? I love it.

If this is a movie, it cuts to asking the guys are like, I don't know what you're talking. I've never heard of this. I never, no, that did not happen. No, he was crucified. What are you talking about? But yes, but exactly. So the Quran points to the previous scriptures as a standard of truth, just like Jesus did

for his witness. Like the previous scriptures are supposed to be a witness to the Quran and vice versa, right? Not a contradiction or a corruption. So the Quran continuously attributes truth and consistency with the previous scripture, but the Muslims tell us otherwise. So a lot of times I say, today I'm Tim Allah. I'm going to go with what Allah says.

Not with what you say, you know. I'm going to go ahead and go with what Allah says. I'm going to be a good Christian and judged by my gospel. Here's another verse that's really important. It's underused. It's chapter 3, verse 81. It says, Allah made a covenant with the prophets.

It says, remember we made a covenant with the prophets and saying, We have given you the book, the scripture, and wisdom. And there is going to be a messenger to come after you confirming that which you have. So you are to believe in him and support him. Do you agree? And the prophets say it, we agree. And then Allah said, I bear witness to this covenant.

So Allah makes a covenant with the prophets. He gave them scripture and wisdom. And then he says, I'm going to send you a messenger that's going to confirm what you have. So in return believe in him and support him help him out, right? So here's the thing. How will they know that who this messenger is when he comes? Well, when he confirms what they have, not contradicts it. If someone comes claiming to be, hey, I'm that messenger of the covenant and he contradicts what they have, they're going to be like, no, you're not the one.

You're not the one who Allah told us about. You're a false messenger. Get out of here. You're a false prophet. The prophet he told us was coming, confirms what we have, says what we have, true and is in line with what we have. So you're not him, right? So what does this do?

This puts the previous scriptures as the judge on whether or not Muhammad's a true prophet or not. It's based on what we got, not the Quran. If the Quran's in line with what we have, Muhammad's good, good to go. If he's not in line with what we have, he's a false prophet. We could dismiss him. According to the Quran. So I imagine an obvious retort is that the Torah and New Testament was not corrupt. in Muhammad's day in the 7th century, but it has since become corrupt.

And that's why the New Testament and the Torah that you're reading doesn't point. That's a good point. So let's go with that. If the scriptures were corrupted, if I was in a debate with you and you reacted with that level of enthusiasm, I know I'm cooked. I'm like, oh dear, he's heard this one here. Oh, really? Let's try that one on. Let's try it out.

I'm so glad you brought that up. point. Let me tell you why. Because if the scriptures were preserved in Muhammad's time but then got corrupted after, well, that actually helps us because our manuscripts date hundreds of years before Muhammad. We have what they were using. So then that means that we can use those manuscripts. Uh-huh. So that means what I have is the preserved uncorrupted word of Allah. Tough. Yeah, I'm with you. Anything after that? Fine. Anything after the seven-s-and-suit? Corrupted, fine. I'll go with Codex and Atticus.

I'll go with Desi Scrolls. I'll go with that account. I'll go with those. I'll go with the Septuagint. I'll just use that. What I have is preserve is the word of a law. And Muhammad is a false prophet. So how has the apologetics game changed

in respect to the Islamic dilemma as it's gotten out there? Oh yeah. Because I'm sure when this was first dropped, you just had white eyes and terror. Bruh. Yeah? Is that right? Yes. see that, but I'm sure there's this people trying to manage this and trying to help Muslims respond better to it. It's the same wide eye and terror.

It still is. It still is. Matter of fact, you just had a clip from a Muslim, a prominent Muslim, he's up and rising now. He was complaining to another Muslim brother who was basically criticizing him for basically clout chasing, right? But he's like, okay, well, if I'm not going to do, who's going to do it? Who's going to go against these Christians, right? With these, I'm getting so many messages from Muslims, doubting the faith and leaving the faith, asking me questions because of these, talking about me and David Wood and IP and us. Because these arguments that they're using and his and the Muslim says, just go to your Sheikh.

Go to the Imam. He says, he leans in to the, he says, brother, do you think that your imam or your, your local Sheikh can answer the Islamic dilemma? No, they can't. Whoa. This is hit, the Muslim admitting this. Talking to another Muslim. With hundreds of people watching. Whoa.

Muslims watching. And you, I mean, you know David Wood and IP and everybody blew that up. That was everywhere on Twitter. But he's the, but they know it. The, your imams, your sheikhs, they cannot answer the Islamic dilemma. None of you can. But so what you guys have to do, these Dawa guys, the apologists, they have to come up with something to deter. her something. We've seen so many versions of a response to the Islamic dilemma. It's changing every year.

There's always something. Right now, the popular thing now was conscious edits. Muhammad's doing it on purpose. He's consciously making edits to the Bible. Purposely, so meaning, so he's not confirming all of the Bible. He only confirms the parts he believes in. This is the new angle now. Okay. Which is unfortunate because the Quran says in chapter 2 in verse 85, it says, Do you believe in part of the scripture and reject the rest? Those who do so among you are disgraced in this life and waits for them the severest punishment in the hereafter. And Allah's not unaware of what you do. So Allah says for those of you who believe in part of the book and believe in other parts, disbelieve in other parts, you're going to go to hell.

So this whole conscious edits, partial confirmation is directly against what Allah says in the Quran. Verbatim. So good luck with that, though. Good luck. Be my guess. You mentioned Dawa. Yeah. What is it and why is it crumbling?

So, Dawa is an invitation to Islam. It's basically like the Christian version of evangelizing. So that's what Dawa is, right? And so with, it's crumbling because, one, like I said, the internet is the death of Islam. The Islamic dilemma, the access to these hadith about Muhammad's character and what he's done, contradictions in the Quran. It's all over the place. It's viral, right?

And millions upon millions of people are, have caught on. So, Dawa now is not as easy. You know, you don't have, like, the Christian walking by that's just, that don't know nothing about Islam anymore. Just to interject, I think Islam portrays itself as a masculine religion. So it must be an utter shame for them to have these Christians whip them. Yeah, absolutely. Like yourself and David Wood and others. To what to the point of it.

That must be shameful for that. It is. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing to where they don't want to talk to us. Okay. They would try to, I'm telling you, man, now, you know, glory to God, I got this smooth character to where I could get a conversation out of anyone. Yeah.

But literally, me and David Wood and IP, vocab, we will walk to a dollar tent. Ask us anything. We go to them. We was just out of college a few months ago. Ask us anything. We're Muslim. Jesus was Muslim. Ask us anything.

It's like seeing the Avengers show up. You know, like, please don't talk to us. Yeah. And what do they, they know who you are? They know who we are. They, I'm, I'm the one who, like, leads the conversations. They let me do it. And so.

Why is that? You're more personal? I guess. Definitely more personal, David Wood. I'm cool. Yeah, yeah. I'm cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm cool. But they're cool, though. Like, David's a cool. You know, he's nice. Like, he could get a conversation. But he's David Wood.

Yeah. You know, so, but somehow I just, I have a way to get a conversation. even when they say we don't want to talk to you. Wow, and that's just how they say it. We don't want to. Yeah, we don't want to talk to you. Okay, fair. Don't want to do any questions.

We don't want to debate or whatever. I'm like, I would just go over for conversation. I'm like, but you have the sign up, right? You have the sign. Ask a Muslim anything. So I came up. I'm a Christian. Why don't you want to talk to me?

You were just talking to a person at the table. I just saw you guys. Why not me? It's because I know about your religion, because I know too much. You know, but, and somehow we get into the conversation. We start having a dialogue. It turns into our conversation.

A good one too. But it's like that. When we pop up on Dawa tents, they know who we are, and they know who I am, and they do not want to converse with us. I mean, in fairness, all right, I could imagine some college age Christian kids reaching out, you know, to college students or people who are genuinely interested. And then if they were to see, like, some atheist apologist show up, like, dude, this is not what it's about. And I wouldn't see that as a mark of shame on the Christian. Yeah. Provided the Christian said, look, I'm sure you could out debate me, but that's not what I'm here to do. Yeah.

Do you see what I mean? Yeah, of course. I don't think it's the fault of those who don't want to engage with you because they're not there to debate, I don't think. They're there to invite to Islam and to answer questions and objections. Well, there you go. Okay. You know, I told them. I said, if you're going to do this, then don't say, ask, don't put up Jesus as a Muslim. Don't put up, Jesus is a Muslim prophet, Abraham is a Muslim, Moses is a Muslim, because you're going to get guys like me that are going to come and address this. And don't put those things on your tent or your table and then say, ask us anything.

Because you're inviting me. You're inviting me to come to you and have this conversation. You're inviting me and David Wood and Apostate Prophets and our camera guy. All of us. You're invited the whole crew, okay? So if I were you, I wouldn't do this. I don't put Jesus is a Muslim. Don't put, da-da-da-da, but put, I don't know, we're inviting to Islam.

If you're genuine, if you're interested in joining Islam, come talk to us. Yeah, that's fair. That'll be a more, I could respect that and be like, okay, I'm not interested in joining Islam, so I'll leave you alone. Who's the most formidable, let's say, online Islamic apologists? And are they willing to debate you and have they? Okay, so formidable is crazy because I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to seem like that, but then. Is this not? No.

But so it's, it's tricky because you have, so you had the older Muslim generation, these, the top of polys that got a million subscribers and stuff like that, they didn't, they didn't really want to talk. Okay. But you have guys like Ali Dawa, he doesn't mind. He didn't mind. Muhammad hijab when I hopped on this panel. He didn't mind. We had the conversation, and he copyright struck me after.

And so we're going through that, which is fun. But then you have, like, these other guys who, they're more so coming up. And they're not idiots. Not completely. Like, they can, they'll get an average Christian. They know enough arguments. They know enough in how to lie to get an average Christian

who doesn't really know or not familiar with their arguments. They can get somebody. However, these type of people are absolutely disgusting. They're the type that docks our families and slander our wives and stuff like that, so we don't give them any attention. I see. You know, but it would be nice if we can engage with certain people like that, that if they didn't do this weird stuff, if it was good engagement,

because now I believe that their arguments are worth responding to, so we just do videos and respond to them. But as far as engaging with this person, they're childish, They're vile, horrible human beings. And so we don't give these people. We leave you alone. Start for content. I was having dinner with a couple of Coptic, Orthodox priest friends of mine.

Shout out to Father Anthony and Father Joe up in Ottawa, Canada. Beautiful men. And I believe they were telling me that it is not a myth that Muslims are dreaming about Christ and are converting. Whenever I hear a story like that, I think it's good to be a little skeptical. Of course. Like, is this just what Christians tell themselves

so they can feel better? Have you heard anything like this? Brother, I have entire streams. I did a stream. I think it was last month. It was strictly an ex-Muslim testimonial stream. And it's crazy how many Muslims come up and they talk about how Christ

came to them, that that's what got them on this road. And some of them ignored it at first. Yeah. This is what they say. You have David Wood's friend who eventually, what's his name? Qureshi? Yeah. Nabila Qureshi.

So you have this, and these Muslims are coming up with these testimonies, and they knew it was Jesus. They know it's him. And some of the day, they ignore it at first, because they'll try to, no, this can't be, you know, it might be a gin or something like that that's attacking or trying to get me off the right path, but then it happens again. Jesus comes to them again, and then circumstances match up to where they're being introduced to Jesus in the gospel more and more and putting these situations and seeing

the falsehood of Islam to where, okay, they come to Jesus, right? So it's crazy. They come and they volunteer, like, it's recorded. And these are my channel. The Muslims are coming up, or X-Muslims are coming up with their testimonies of how Christ came to them and saved them, brought them out of the darkness of Islam. It's insane. It's powerful. So I did a video last year.

It's called an hour of Muslims converting to Christianity. It's an hour worth of just testimonies of them saying what God did for them, how Christ came to them. Glory to Jesus Christ. Michael Jones texted me this morning. He wants me to ask you. And he says, this is his exact text. Ask him, who is ivory? I'm not telling you what that means, but tell him I told you to ask.

So who is ivory? Me and Mike have become quite the duo. Okay. He's becoming... Is this Ebony and Ivory? Is that way this is going? Yes. Yes.

And so the funny thing is I'm Avery, he's Ivory. Okay. If you've seen a past date prophet, he's ovary. Oh, he's great. Yes. So he's over. Overey and Ivory. Yep, whenever we stream together.

So yeah. All right. Thanks, I guess, Michael Jones. Jones. Muslim women becoming the new faces of Islamic apologetics. Yes. Pretty wild. It's, it's, it's incredible. Well, um, when did that start and why did it start and what's going on? So I think that, um, a good, it's interesting. So starts, it's on TikTok. That's where it starts. It started on TikTok, you're, you know, TikTok gives anybody a voice. Um, so you got these Muslim sisters who are starting to go live and defend their religion and, you know, kind of get some

traction. But then there was Cora, specifically W. Cora. Cora, I say W. Corr. I know you're watching. Yeah, I know you're watching. Cora went on the Dr. Daff Show and she went viral because, you know, she went against 20 Christians and held her own apparently well, right? To where, you know, She wasn't completely stumped. You know, she had good arguments that some of the Christians couldn't really deal with fully. So she was very impressive to the masses. And so she basically was the catalyst for the other ones to start coming out wearing a khaab, make sure you look appropriate, and come and defend Islam and attack Christianity, you know? And so that has been rising with them.

It's becoming popular. It's controversial, too, though. because a lot of Muslim scholars forbid women from teaching, women from being public, right? They're there, the scholars, they're saying like, you have the Nakhab outwardly, but inwardly, you're not, you don't have a hijab on. Inwardly, you're not covered, right?

So you just have this outer appearance and you're basically being a hypocrite. Your voice shouldn't even be heard by the, by people. You know, it can be suggestive and stuff like that. It's, this is what they say. Right. It's crazy, you know? But I think it's fun.

Well, I sat down with Mike Jones recently, and we were reviewing some TikToks together. And one thing I found fascinating was how many, you know, American looking, right? So Australian, American, young, white women with blonde hair are defending Islam. What's going on? It's a grift. Is it? Yeah. If you are sentimental to Islam, it's a great way to quickly get a good audience.

Okay. A large audience, very quickly. So you'll see a lot of these guys. these people cling to Islam, start speaking well of it, defending it, and pretending like they're becoming Muslim to gain a following and gain some traction, and it works. It works, because, you know, it's popular,

like, if you are sentimental to Islam, you're woke. You're woke, you know, so. Now, I only learned this recently that you can live stream on TikTok. Yeah. I don't know that. How long have you been able to do there for? Oh, forever. Okay, next question. This for a while, yeah.

I didn't know that. Okay, but I understand that you will raid, as it were, enter Muslims live streaming. Tell me about that and how does that go? Yeah, so, you know, I got a reputation now. Like I was telling you, they don't want to talk to me. So, but it's like a hate-love relationship. They love me and want me to come on and come on their panels,

but then they don't want me on and don't want to talk to me. So it's interesting. So what I do is, I'll come on on a burner account. Okay. I'll come in on a burner account and I'll hop from Muslim Live to Muslim Live. Some might recognize me immediately. Others might not recognize me to the end or maybe in the middle to where it's too late. Once they recognize me though, they'll kick me.

They'll mute me. They'll cuss me out. You know, all this kind of stuff demonstrating why me going undercover actually works because if you knew it was me, you wouldn't talk. You wouldn't have the conversation. Your cowardice comes out. Right. So it's really fun.

It's so fun. And what's this I hear recently about a woman using a voice modifier? Yeah. What happened then? Yeah. So Cora, W. Cora, Cora went on Mike's channel with a voice changer to try to catch him up and have a conversation. Well, why does she think she's so formidable that she needs a voice? I don't.

I, brother, I don't know. Look, asking me about how. Would he have spoken to her? Yes. And no one will not speak to Cora. Okay. We would all speak to Cora. Matter of fact, it will be really unfortunate if my next.

live, someone came on with a voice changer and tried to come to bunk me. It'll be a shame, you know? I would really hate that. Please don't do it. We don't do it. But we would all talk to Cora. You know what I'm saying? So, so, so she, she doesn't have this reputation or this, this enigma where we would kick her or mute her. Oh, it's Cora, let's get her out of there. No, we would talk to you. It's not like me where, if they know it's me, they're not going to let me up. They're going to avoid speaking to me, or they find out it's me, they're going to, okay, start cussing me out and kick me immediately

and start muting me, mass muting me. You don't have that going for you. So that's why when I go undercover, it's authentic. When you go undercover, it's fake. It's just for like some type of clip you're trying to create. What is what are you doing? We would all talk to you. With a quickness.

That's funny. I've never really, I don't know if I've heard someone use a voice moderator and sound natural. Do they sound natural? sounds just like a computer, and she couldn't even help herself. She has these key words that she always says, okay, perfect, okay, beautiful, right? So, whenever you ask her a question, so, Cora, do you believe that the Bible's corrupted? Okay, perfect.

That's her, everything is. I see. Right? So during this voiceover, our voice changer, she's, okay, okay, perfect, okay, perfect, okay, beautiful. And so, and Mike is calling her, uh, Cora, like, Corey, you're not answering the question. And she's like, Who's Cora? That's so funny.

Cora, that's not the argument, Cora. She was like, wait, what? He was like, you're not answering the question. It took her, she was like, dang, they know it's me. But she never took the thing off. She still continued like a weirdo. But, yeah. What are some arguments or tactics you would like to see Christians stop using as they engage?

Muslims. In other words, you ever cringe as you watch a Christian try to debate a Muslim because he's going about it the wrong way? Yes. I do not like when Christians think that they, if they preach to the Muslim, that they're going to accept Christ. Meaning, they're going up there, hey, guys, you know, all respect. Jesus loves you, you know, and, you know, I respect your religion. Jesus loves you and wants you to be saved, repent of your sin. All right. That. In other words, they think that softness is a helpful tactic.

Yes. That will never work. Why doesn't it work? It will never work. One, like Muslims, like you said, it's a, it's a, has this a, a, a masculine type of feel or a religion, like the portrayal. Yeah. I mean, believe me, I watched Egypt destroy Australia in soccer the other day. They're masculine looking dudes.

I don't know if you know this, but. the coach has stated publicly that they will not receive Christians on the team. Really? So they're all Muslims or just not Christian. Wow. I asked because with my Coptic priest friends. And so obviously they're going for Egypt because that's where they're from and I'm going for Australia.

And I'm like, you're sure you want to keep rooting for the Mohammedans? Why don't you come over to my side? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I mean, it's a masculine culture. And the fellas look far more formidable. Yep. Than the others. Yeah.

For Islam, it's vibrato. pride. I'm big. I'm strong. I'm better than you. I've humiliated you. That's them. That's what they understand. They don't understand the soft, nice, little respectful, loving. Yeah. That doesn't work for a Muslim. It does not work. Don't work for a Muslim. Don't work for a Hebrew Israel life. That will never work. What you need to do is, is be real. Stop being soft with them. But there's a difference between, like what the Bible says, be as wise as a serpent, gentle as a dove. There's a balance.

Use wisdom in talking with them, gentleness and lovingness, but also a sternness. That's what works. Show them that the religion is false. You have to break down the walls of Islam and then present the gospel. Forgive me if it seems like I'm distracted, but I just thought of something I want to look up

in the scriptures, so I was going to keep going. But I like that. Yeah, wise the serpent's gentle as a dove, man. Have a level of sternness with you because they will literally run you over if you do not have a some with a backbone and a sternness to you when you're conversing with them they will run over you um here's what i was thinking saint paul in axe chapter 13 you are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right you are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery will you

never stop perverting the right ways of the lord see so that's not right that's not a justification to be a jerk. Yeah. Which unfortunately, some online Christians seem to be doing. Yeah. Like, all I'm going to do is use foul language, try to humiliate people, act in a way that seems pretty much indistinguishable from complete ridicule and hatred. Yeah.

Right. We don't want to do that. But it's also, look at Paul. Look at Christ. Look at the early fathers. Love for the individual, but speaking truth. Exactly. Exactly.

And notice, with Paul, he's talking to a particular group. He's talking to a particular people, right? And he doesn't talk like that with everyone. With some, he has, there's a gentleness and a softness. Yeah. With others, there's a sternness, and then a harsh rebuke, right? And so there's balance, wisdom, and who you're talking to. So stop being soft with the Muslims,

my I'm telling you. If you're joining TikTok, and this is for, if you're joining TikTok or any Muslim live, they are not there to receive the gospel. They're not. They're there to debunk, debunk Christianity, promote Islam, and make you look humiliated, subdued. That's what they're there for, okay? Now, what you do is you go up there and you destroy any arguments and ideas that try

to rise itself up against Christ. You bring those down, as the Bible says. But you do that with wisdom, discernment, love with sternness. You being sternness does not mean you're not being loving. That's right. Me being stern with you is loving because I love you enough to have this attitude

towards you to get you to the truth. With what I've noticed with Muslims you have to break down the wall of Islam first then miraculously the gospel makes sense to them. Like I've been talking with Muslims our conversation, two hour conversation breaking down,

the Trinity doesn't make sense. Yeah, da da da da, da. Okay, let's talk about Islam. We talk about Islam, we break down the walls of Islam and all of a sudden, Yeah, I can see how the Trinity can work. Yeah, I don't really have a problem with it. Yeah, Jesus dying for my sins is not, yeah, I see that it's a loving mess.

It makes sense all of a sudden. Now they're open to it. Before it or not, you got to break down the walls of Islam. Do you know people converting from Islam who are now publicly facing preaching the gospel, or is there a lot of disincentive to do that? Yeah, yeah. There's, you have a few brothers and sisters, apostate of Allah. Uh

Just comes to my mind I'm thinking Ish of Arabia Who's a fellow I've had on the show Yes Yes Yes

Him Um There's uh What's the brother's name He uh Young young Ex-Muslim brother He's been on

Turning point You was okay I don't know Here's the question I would have If I was a Muslim Sure You say all these

Muslims are converting Right You go all these stories About them Dreaming about Jesus Yeah The internet Killing Islam

And yet you can't name for me many publicly facing apologists against Islam. So doesn't that undercut your position that Muslims are converting in Islam? No. What? Lives are at stake. So when you leave Islam, you got like a hit out on you, you know? Ex-Muslim have hits out on them.

So not every ex-Muslim has to be an apologist against Islam. Not every ex-Muslim has to do that. There are some who are called to that. Some aren't. Do you have people privately messaging you? 100%. Thanking you. Yeah, absolutely.

They'll emails, inboxes on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, ex-Muslims feel, you know, thank you so much. This was the last straw for me, yada, yada, yada. Can I have a suggestion for a show? Yeah, yeah, all right. Blur out the names and personal information

or any information that could lead to knowing who that is and then just do a stream where you just go through these beautiful stories. Yeah, 100%. Would that be inappropriate? No, no, that would be awesome. I know you don't want to, people are writing you a personal email. I always think it's kind of crummy when people share text messages on the YouTube channel and like, yeah.

But I think it's different if you're blurring. Yeah, if you, if there's no, if there's no connections back to that person, I think that that's okay. Yeah, that'd be beautiful. Yeah. All right, you mentioned as we begin to wrap up, black Hebrew Israelites. Yeah. Or Hebrew Israelites. Yeah.

Should Christians be, should they care about who these people are? Yes. Okay, then. Who are they? Yeah. So Hebrew Israelites, they're more so in the urban kind of field. You know, they're in the black neighborhoods, Latino neighborhoods. And they're convincing people that the original Israelites are the black people, for the most part, Latinos, and Native Americans.

I'm pretty sure they probably added some other people now. but the chart's always changing. So, but it's growing. It's growing. They have a false gospel, a false doctrine. They deny the deity of Christ. They deny the Trinity. They deny being saved by grace.

They, they are law promoting. They try to, you know, say that you have to follow the law or else God doesn't love you. And God only loves the Israelites. That's their main message that God only loves the Israelites. Jesus only died for the Israelites, which is us, the black people and yada, yada, yada. And white people are the devil, sorry, man. But you don't make the cut. I identify as black.

Does that matter? What would they say to that? Depends on who your father is. You know. But, but yeah. Are they using the New Testament? What are their scriptures? Yeah, so they'll use the Bible, all of it.

They'll use old and new. You get some, so they also have sex or camps is what they call them. Yeah. So depends on the sex. There might be just some that are only Torah observant. But for the most part, they use both, Old and New Testament. Where did they come from?

They sprang out in like New York, I think in Harlem or something like that. And they kind of came around, I think, during like the Black Panther era and stuff, Nation of Islam, that type of era. And so they sprung out of that. And, you know, white men's the devils. Look at the oppression. Look at what happens to black people. We're taking over on ships.

They used the curses in Deuteronomy 28 that God applies to Israel. and say, see, ships and, you know, take it to a foreign land. You lose your culture and your heritage. That's us. You know, that's the black people, you know. It's wild the different religions that have come out of America and how weird they, how weird they get when they detach themselves from Christian Orthodox. Yes.

Joe's Witnesses, Mormons. Yes. Black Hebrew Israelites or Hebrew Israelites? So they prefer Hebrew Israelites. They'll say, like, they'll take offense at black Hebrew Israelites. So, you know, if you want to be respectful to them, Hebrew is the lights, but, you know, it is what it is. They are, they are, you'll have some camps that are, you know, cordial, respectful. You can have a conversation.

You can have a sit down with them and they'll talk to you. They'll go over scripture with you. And then you have a lot of camps, most of the camps, very disrespectful, very belligerent. So is Christ African? Is that their idea? And Christ is a black man. Yeah. Not African.

He's a black man. Yeah. The Africans are not Hebrew, are not Israel. Okay. Yeah. It's it's it's the African American. Okay. The so-called black man. That is the So the blacks in Africa, they're screwed. Yes, they're screwed. Yep, they're screwed. Yep. Funny that the Latinos got brought in. Yeah. Do you think it was kind of like the Democrat Party? Like who else can we get on our side? I think

I think it has a lot to do with uh, I think like the Latinos are, um, it's interesting when you think of it, the Latinos and the blacks are like kind of culturally, they're like brothers kind of are cousins in the sense, you know. So they wanted to extend a. Yes, you know, they have a similar experience. Have you begun debating them? Yes, yes. Hebrew Israelites is a huge, they're also a target. Joe's Witnesses Islam and Hebrew Israelites. As a matter of fact, I'm having an event in September in Vegas and it's going to be bringing one. of their captains, their leaders, to come debate with me and David Wood and IP inspired philosophy. It's going to be a panel, little discussion debate thing.

Deity of Christ and does salvation belong to Israel alone or for the rest of the world as well? It's going to be good. Well, brother, thanks very much for coming on the show and sharing all. I learned a lot, actually. It's really great. And I'm glad that you exist. And I'm glad that you have, thank God that has given you the grace and the desire to study these things. so that you can explain them to Christians

and also help refute the error of Islam. Yeah. With love, you know. Where can people learn more about you? What do you want them to check out from what you're doing? Yeah, well, my YouTube channel, Galarogic Apologetics, I really want people to come to the streams because if you come to the streams,

that's where you'll see, like, real time, these arguments and these conversations, these discussions, how they flow, how they maneuver, And when you watch this in real time live, you watch these live discussions, you get to see like, okay, this is how it is, you know? And this is how I can implement it in my own life when I run into a Muslim or Jehovah Witness

and Hebrew Israelites or Unitarian, whatever, right? So the live streams, I think, it's been extremely helpful. So I live stream every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 5 p.m. Eastern Standard time. You can also find me on Instagram, God Logic. We'll put all the links below for you. So people can go check them out. Instagram, TikTok, all of it. Yeah. I think one of the ways we can know or at least have some indication as to whether or not we are humble is how we react, even just internally, when we are shown to be wrong.

Yeah. Or, yeah, sort of like what happened on that campus that day with that Joseph. So how do you how do you pray for humility? Is this a concern of yours? Because I mean, part of your schick now is just like leveling Muslims, but you also want to be humble. humble and kind and respectful. How do you navigate that? Well, so it's not a problem for me, humility. Like, it's a built-in character, thank the Lord. Like, I don't see the person I'm talking to as someone I'm better than, or I'm smarter than, or whatever. So when you get rebuked and when your intellectual poverty is sort of exposed,

you don't bristle, you don't feel... No. Like, there's been Muslims that have been... I'm talking to them. And the guy is smarter than me. Like, the dude is philosophically sound, like in an area or whatever, right? And I give them props. I'm like, man, you show me something I didn't know, man.

You know, and it's a good conversation. Good for you. You know, it can get to a point where there's been times where, like, I'm not a philosopher, but a philosopher like type Muslim will come up or whatever, right, Unitarian or something like that. And they'll ask me questions or bring me to a point where, like, that's my stopping point. And I'll tell them, I'm not going to. You've hit bedrock. Yeah.

I got nothing more. I got nothing for you, man. You know, this is my limit. I really do appreciate that. I think we would all be a lot. calmer and a whole lot less anxious if we would just be willing to admit, I have no idea. Yes. I don't know.

I'm not good at that. Man. But we have this lie that we have to, like for example, people ask me, why don't I debate? Like, oh, because I'm not good at it. Simple. And then I watch other debates. I'm like, I wish that Christian would also admit he's not good at it. Yeah.

Because it's not good for the kingdom. It's not good for the gospel. I mean, obviously all of us, none of us are perfect. Even the best debater is going to get shellacked and that's part of it and whatever. But I have no problem saying. I have no problem saying, I don't know. I have no problem saying, dang, that's a good point. Let me get back to you.

I have no problem saying that. I think that that is key for honest dialogue and discussion and growth. You can't grow if you think you know everything. You can't grow if you can't accept learning, you know, you can't grow. I like to grow. And I've grown so much over the years that I've been doing this. I've learned a lot from Muslims and Unitarian. I've learned a lot from my opponents.

I've learned a lot, you know? So, and I praise God. It's made me sharper and stronger. I forget who it was who went back through their old debates and reviewed them. And they called the video, so-and-so, meaning himself, destroys so-and-so. He destroys himself by going, I would have said that differently. West-Huff. Yeah.

West Huff did that. Yeah. Oh, West Huff. You're right. It was. I thought that was really cool. Yeah. So I think everybody should have that attitude, man.

It's okay to say you don't know. It's okay to have to go back and study something or learn something. something, it's okay. Even in the heat of the moment, it's okay. It's not embarrassing. You get more respect when you do that. Oh, 100%. I've been in debates with people where, you know, they said, one guy said to me, you know what, that's a good point. I'm like, what? It was like cold water thrown on my passion. He's like, would you mind if I spent some time thinking about that and I got back to you? Uh, yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, this guy is like showing me that that's a humble thing to say. Yeah. And it lightens up the conversation, right? It's like it's not so, it's not

pressured. It's like now, now we're really conversing. It's not a battle. It's not me against you. It's us looking for the truth. Exactly. Yeah. And I think what's important though is you say, if you say, can I get back to you? What's really important is that you do in fact get back to them. Yep. Or if you can't get back to them because it was on a live stream, you at least release a video that here's how I should have responded. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Final question. How are you dealing with these threats and these horrible things being done against you and your wife for you. I don't look to the left or to the right. We look straightforward and we keep our mind on the kingdom of God. That's our motive. That's our foundation. Do you mind me asking, you don't

have to answer this? Do you have children? Not yet. I know. My thought, though, is like if you're in fear of your safety for her or your future children, please God, hopefully you would find some kind of protection or? Yeah, yeah. We, you know, we got. You got. You got. You know, yeah, we got something at the house. David Wood. You got David Wood ready to go. You know, but yeah, I'm not, we're not in fear of these guys. Okay.

By these internet trolls and these empty threats, we're not, we're not afraid of them. You know, we're seeing that by this reaction, literally God's hand is on this ministry and Satan is uncomfortable. So it literally, I know it might sound corny or whatever, but it literally encourages us and pushes us further. Like when I see them slander, you slander my wife. I'm going to tell the truth about your prophet. I'm going to tell the truth. You know, that pushes me for more. I'm not going to shy away.

It doesn't like, oh, maybe I should, no. Not this guy. I'm the wrong guy to troll. I'm the wrong one. Yeah. You know. Avery, thanks so much. Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. Thanks for having me, man. This was fun. It's been good. Yes, sir. So if you've made it this far, I'm willing to bet that you don't hate what you're watching. So you should, you know, maybe consider liking and subscribing. Go on. Consider it. Consider it. What if a few minutes with God could change the direction of your entire day?

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