Pirate Wires - Chaos At Trump’s Speech & What Happened To Democrats? (ft. Aella)

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

EPISODE #89: This week, we brought our bingo paddles to watch Trump’s address to Congress. Within minutes, everything was out of control. The ladies were dressed in pink, they waved signs, and Al Green was removed. We get into the the decline of decorum, how the Democrat party is completely lost right now, and how culture has completely shifted to the right. Their potential savior may be none other than Gavin Newsom and his new podcast! Compared to left influencers like Hasan Piker who call for the k*lling of senators, maybe Newsom is not all that bad for Democrats? Also, we have a guest this week! Aella joins the show to talk everything s*x, appearing on the “Whatever Podcast”, and where she see’s s*x culture in America.  Featuring Mike Solana, Riley Nork, Molly O'Shea, Kartik Sathappan, AellaWe have partnered with Polymarket! Download the Polymarket: Election Forecast app https://apps.apple.com/us/app/polymarket-election-forecast/id6648798962- Disclaimer: Not Financial Advice, For Entertainment Purposes Only.Sign Up For The Pirate Wires Daily! https://get.piratewires.com/pw/dailyhttps://piratewires.co/free_newsletterTopics Discussed:Pirate Wires on X: https://twitter.com/PirateWiresMike on X: https://twitter.com/micsolanaRiley on X: https://x.com/rylzdigitalMolly on X: https://x.com/MollySOSheaKartik on X: https://x.com/sathaxeAella on X: https://x.com/Aella_GirlTIMESTAMPS:0:00 - Welcome Back To The Pod!#podcast #technology #politics #culture

Everyone go ahead and get out your protest bingo paddles because Trump gave his first address to a joint session of Congress this week. I watched it. I was clutching my pearls. I was shocked at what I saw, giving a speech about a bunch of sh** that he did already that most people approve of and they look like children fighting against him for reasons that are not even clear. How do you guys feel about the like self recordings of leaving? Because I thought it was... I didn't know he existed before last night. Okay. They all say verbatim

the same thing in it. Why do Democrats keep singing on screen? What the f*** is that? Can someone explain that to me? What's up guys? Welcome back to the pod. We've got Molly and Cardick in the house today. Stay tuned. We're going to go through our typical pod. We've got a bunch of fun topics to discuss today, cover the news. And then we've got a special guest interview with Ayla, the sex researcher, only fans, star,

sort of not as much anymore, more doing sex research, and recent guest on the Whatever pod. We talk about her experience on one of the trashy podcasts in human history and what she learned, what we all learned, talk about sex research and sort of her insights there and human sexuality. And then also, you know what? No, I'll save it for you to get there.

One request for you, I noticed an interesting thing that's kind of strange and my team and I are trying to get to the bottom of it, which is that there seems to be way more of you listening to us on Spotify and iTunes than watching us on YouTube, which is sort of an aberration in the world of podcasts. Trying to figure it out and what I would like like, I'm running a little experiment this week. If you are a audio listener only,

could you do me a favor? And it will take none of your time. So I really hope that you just do this as a loyal listener. Why not just do this very easy thing? Just check us out on YouTube for a second. Go and give it a view, give it a like, throw a comment in there.

I just wanna know that you're alive. Like say, it's proof, I need proof of life from you. I want to see, I want to get a better sense of who our audience is, where they're listening, how big it is, how many of you are just Chinese bots. Though I don't know why you would be amplifying this podcast of all, maybe you're,

what kind of bots could you be? What is the kind of bot guys that maybe would, I guess, oh, they say I'm an agent of Masada. You could be an Israeli bot, I guess. That's the new thing is that I work for Masada or I'm an asset of Masada. So maybe that, but I want to know, you know, the Israeli bots out there. I would love to say hello. Now let's get into it right off the top.

Obviously we got to talk about it. The Trump speech, Riley, break it down. Yeah. So everyone go ahead and get out your, your protest bingo paddles because Trump gave his first, uh, address to a joint session of Congress this week, which is different than a state of the union somehow. No one knows why, but what we do know is that in the words of one Democrat Congresswoman sign, this is not normal.

Okay. So what happened at the speech, first of all, right from the jump, before Trump really got into any of the substance of his speech, the Democrat side of the aisle was loudly interrupting him. Al Green in particular, not the singer, the congressman, stood up and was like shaking his cane at Trump, which is a bold move.

I didn't know he existed before last night. Not a clue. Okay, so same thing with that purple-haired woman. I'm like, these people have been around forever and It's like how have I am I just learning about them? Yeah So anyways, he does his interruption. He shakes his cane at Trump Green I think was yelling like you have no mandate at Trump, which is funny because it's like which electoral map were you looking at buddy? Eventually, he has to get escorted out of the chamber altogether by the sergeant at arms, allowing Trump to continue with his speech where the highlights included listing

out some of the things Doge was cutting for like five minutes straight, something about transgender mice, describing in detail various examples of Medicare fraud, just listing out the ages of people who are allegedly receiving benefits, including someone like over 300 years old. One of the few applause lines from Democrats came when Trump made a statement about the war in Ukraine, after which he called Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas to her face. He was like, yeah, Pocahontas, I bet you love that one or something. But yeah, those are just sort of some of the high level takeaways from Trump's

speech. What did you guys make of it and were you holding up your protest paddles for it? I was shocked at how the Democrats just handed this to Trump. Now, there's a lot we could talk about about the disruptions we're going to in a moment. I have a bunch of things I want to get off my chest and the weirdly they have mostly to do with chat GPT. But why on earth would they have done so much disrupting in those, that earliest part of the speech, it's Donald Trump. You know that he's going to say something fucking crazy and you could have just waited until he did that to throw your temper tantrum, which you shouldn't be throwing a temper tantrum in the speech.

Like you really shouldn't. We have a long history of you, not, you should not be doing that. We talk about, you shouldn't be doing that. Whatever. Let's table that. Why in the first 10 minutes, he said nothing. He's just talking. Introductions, basically. You stand up. You refuse to let him talk. You've got your stupid little fucking panels. You're holding your science. You look like there is nothing he could possibly say ever that you would support, which then of course, after, I mean, Al Green didn't just shout something out, Al Green has to be escorted out. I watched it. I was clutching my pearls. I was shocked at what I saw. I could not, I actually couldn't believe he kept going and he wouldn't stop. He had to be taken out of there. And then Trump plays off of it. Of course, he has this moment where he sounds like Bill Murray in Scrooge, you know, on Christmas Eve giving this, we've got to come together moment before he becomes, you know, completely

partisan and roast them for like two hours. But in that moment, in those early moments of the speech, he just looks like a guy who won the election, who is now giving a speech about a bunch of shit that he did already that most people approve of, and they look like children who are fighting against him for reasons that are not even clear. And that is for them a fucking disaster. The speech was pretty partisan. I don't know why people keep bringing this up in the press. I find them always to be really partisan.

I don't know when they're not partisan. I thought his speech was good, and I think that he's clever. He's a really good entertainer, and so he plays really well off of chaos, I thought his speech was good and I think that he's clever. He's a really good entertainer. And so he plays really well off of chaos, which they just handed him. And again, it's like, they just played, the Democrats played themselves.

What did you guys make of it? I think it's interesting you bring that up about Democrats in there because it's almost like you still expect them to be authentic or you thought they're behaving like children, but I just think it was all pre-planned. He could have gone in and sung kumbaya and it wouldn't have mattered. Like everything would have happened at the exact same time in my opinion. And I think we have to get to a point where they just start being authentic again,

regardless of their views. I saw a lot of calls from war decorum and people acting more normally. Personally, I kind of like that they're just like us. Like they're just idiots and they have feelings and being in the government is no different than not being in the government. And I think that shines a lot of light on stuff. And I think if they just lean into that and be authentic, kind of like the writers these days, at least to my eyes,

it would be helpful for them. What does authentic mean though? Just like having a real reaction. Like he says something and you react to it instead of like, you have these paddles planned and I'm sure the pointing with the stick was planned. It's just like, don't plan all this stuff. Just, just be you. I mean, they're authentically annoying.

I find them extremely irritating. And I think that they definitely just like peacocked that last night. I, people were bringing up, so I, I tweeted about this. I brought up the fact that, and I think this is an important point, separate from politics, there has been a dramatic transformation in this country of our politicians.

In 2009, Joe Wilson stood up and he said, you lie. The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. Law! The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegal. It's not true. Everyone was fucking shocked. This was a national scandal. He sat down after, he apologized after, both parties condemned him. There was a vote to formally condemn him. In the vote, only 12 Republicans sided with the Democrats, but it was, there were mostly Democrats in the House

and they overwhelmingly succeeded in formally condemning his remarks in Congress. Now, fast forward. You have, I don't, I didn't see any Democrats condemn what Al Green did, but how could they? Because they were shouting throughout the entire speech. After he gets kicked out, that's what everyone's focusing on. Because Al Green, I saw this morning

before we began recording this on Thursday recording, Al Green was formally censored by Congress. Also on partisan lines, relatively similar to what happened to Joe Wilson, you had 10 Democrats who sided with the Republicans. And so he was formally censored. But then Democrats stood up around him and sang, we shall overcome in Congress after this happened. It is as if he's like a freedom fighter or something rather than, you know, violating the rules of Congress.

The House had come to order. The House had come to order. It's just a massive difference. It is just such a difference in how we approach this. People kept throwing out to me Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has disrupted a bunch of speeches, and they're like, oh, you don't want to talk about Marjorie Taylor. First of all, that happened during Biden's term. I'm talking about Joe Wilson, because that was when it was a very different reaction from the left and the right.

Okay. Everyone agreed. And the important one there is the right. When you had Republican leadership coming out publicly and condemning this, that's, that's very meaningful to me. But also what he did was it was like a blip. He said one thing and it was a national controversy. This was the disruption did not end from the point, the moment that it started through Al Green getting kicked out.

They came with signs. They came prepared to heckle and disrupt the entire thing. I don't like it personally. I don't want to be more like Britain. People are like, oh, but what about the House of Commons? Like who wants to be fucking British? We just saw the legislation they passed this week. It's like, that's a crazy cursed little island

that I want to be nothing like. And I think it is just notable that things are different. With MTG, I don't like that she disrupts. I'm like, shut up, let this man speak. You're not the president. Why do you think that you're special? It's so, that kind of person is maybe my least kind of favorite kind of person in Congress.

It's like, you're a Congress, you're not even Congress. It's like you're a Congress, you're not even a Senator, okay? You're a Congress person. That means a very small number of people voted for you. No one is here to hear you speak. Just have some, I don't know, common sense. Yeah, I was going to say this is really leaning towards parliamentary behavior. And I don't necessarily think that's a good thing. Like the US is supposed to be the sophisticated one in the room, but everyone is making immature chants. And like, even when he was kicked out, like even on the right, like they were chanting

na na na na, goodbye. Oh my God, yeah. Mortifying. That was just so cringe. Like, dude, even the USA chant. Don't, this is not a football game. Yeah, they literally wrote, this is like a football stadium behavior.

Like, why is this happening? They're chanting USA. The Republicans were chanting USA. I'm like, I never like a USA chant. It just always feels, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it just strikes me as not real. It strikes me as performative guy shit. And I'm like, you don't need to do all that to be pro-America. Yeah, but do you think it's like kind of like the culture of like Trump and the rallies

like bleeding into the house? I think that they feel that America, they feel correctly that America is on the side of Trump and they want to attract that audience. And so they're becoming more like what they think Trump is. And I've never heard Trump make a USA speech with like USA, USA, USA, he doesn't say that. People say it to him sometimes in response to the crazy shit that he says or the shit that they love,

you know, but he's like, I don't know. I don't know about all that. But I just know that it was embarrassing. It was embarrassing for everybody. I mean, people think I'm biased, but I thought Trump's speech was pretty good. I think that he just undeniably did a lot in the last 40 days or whatever. No one ever gets up there and starts talking about all the shit they did in 40 days. Border crossings have completely plummeted.

And it seems like America agrees in polling data, about all the shit they did in 40 days. Border crossings have completely plummeted. It seems like America agrees in polling data, both CNN and what was the other one, Riley? It was over 70% approval of his speech. Yeah, it was 70% then 66% approval, which is pretty high for this. What I would really like is polling on your perception of Democrats after the speech. I think it would be the opposite. I think they really played themselves. I think the Democrats have a huge, huge problem. They don't know who they are. I saw a tweet go viral to this effect, just the Democrats are lost. It annoyed me because I had said it myself in another good tweet that was much earlier where I said the same thing. I felt very strongly about that and I still do. They don't know who they are. I don't think they know how

to exist in a world with Trump because Trump is economically a lot like them. He's willing to do really crazy Bernie Sanders like shit, I think stealing a lot of their thunder in that regard. And then what do you have left? You have bizarre social issues where he takes much more reasonable positions, sometimes radical positions, I would say, or shocking positions. I am of a mixed on the trans military stuff. I've heard people steal men and I kind of understand where they're coming from, but net, I don't know. That's a different topic, but they don't have a lot left. They don't have any heroes in the party who they can stand behind. And I don't even think they know what they believe right now,

other than Trump is lying. And Elon is a bad billionaire. They had Elon Science as well, which was just so embarrassing. Why are you talking about him? It's just weird. I wonder on the Al Green thing of him getting kicked out, I wonder if that's going to set a precedent going forward. Because like you mentioned, none of us knew him before this happened. And now he's all in the headlines.

So this is going to be big for him, and who knows what he's going to segue it into. And I think people are just going to get the impression of like, hey, if I make a scene during one of these speeches, this is something I can, I can ride on for a while. So I think this is going to start a trend. Who is the governor that Trump picked on? Was it the governor of Maine?

Yeah. At the governor conference. Same thing. She immediately got a profile in the New York times. Um, yes, there is this like, there is this implicit pact with the press. If you, if you act like one of those deranged environmental activists who destroy priceless artwork, but you're an adult in Congress, if you act that way and go after Trump, we're going to make you a hero.

And that's what's happening. So there is an incentive for it. But what do you think this peak pettiness will be? At what point will they stop? I don't think it stops now. I think you'll never have a peaceful... This wasn't a State of the Union. It was, what was it? Like a speech to Congress or whatever. I don't know. Address to a joint session of Congress. Right, but they were all there. And like, I think you'll never have one of these again, that's not disrupted. I think it's just, we're beyond that now. There's just the bitterness is

too, and that's really what you feel, right? The bitterness between Republicans and Democrats, these people hate each other. And that's a reflection of, I think, how Americans feel about it. Americans who strongly align with one side or the other really hate the other side. It's no longer used to, I think, I think the left always hated the right. The left always thought the right was evil and the right always thought the left was stupid. That has changed. Both sides think the other side is now evil.

That's, that's, I think that's my read of where everybody is at. They don't see it as like, oh, you're misinformed. They see it as you are a bad person and you want to do bad things in the world. And so fuck you, I'm going to destroy you however I can. And that's reflected in Congress because they're doing shit that they think that their constituents want to see.

And I think they're right. They're probably closer to right than I am, being like, oh, be more respectful in the halls of Congress. I don't think the average person wants that. I don't think Cardick wants that based on what he said a second ago. Yeah. I mean, how do you guys feel about the like self recordings of leaving? Like other walking out? Okay. Cause I thought it was, I just thought it was extremely lame because like if you are cool, then you'll leave and you'll be covered if it's a statement.

You can't record it yourself and talk about you leaving. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. Here's a surprise laurel for someone. AOC. AOC opted out of going to this speech, which I am here for. You don't like what's going on. You don't respect the person speaking.

You hate him that much. I completely get it. Don't go. She's like, I'm not going to that shit. I'm going to live tweet about it, about how dumb it is online. I'll be at home in my slippers, making fun of all of you. Good for her.

That is, I get that. That's the move. And obviously she got pressed for it because when does she not? And I think the other stuff stuff going there in your pink jacket with your little sign that says, Elon on one side and false on the other, and you're going to shout at him and be mad and then not stand up for the cancer patient. It's just bad.

It's bad. On that though, what do you guys make by the way of every speech does this, every side always does this. You bring people in who are victims. This kid has brain cancer. This woman over here lost an eye or something. This guy over here got, this is the family of the dude who got shot

at Trump's rally and died. And then it's like Trump announces them and the Democrats are not standing up for anything. And there's this pressure on them to stand up at least for that and give an applause. And then they anything, and there's this pressure on them to stand up, at least for that, and give an applause. And then they don't, and they look like monsters. I feel bad for them, though, in that respect. It feels super manipulative. And does anybody really... I don't know. It's like a weird... Why are those people even there?

I feel happy that they're all alive and safe, but why are they there? Why are they at this speech? Why are we doing this? I think you feel bad for the people not standing up and clapping, but you feel bad for like the kids that are parading around. That makes sense. No, I feel bad for, I don't feel bad. I feel bad for, I feel like I don't like being manipulated. And I feel like in that situation, there's this bizarre pressure on you to stand up for something that the person you hate is saying, but he had to bring out like this kind of perfect victim to do that.

But not even a perfect victim, right? They're also on issues that are like 80, 20 issues. So it's kind of like, and you can call it a trap, but it's kind of easy just to stand up and mildly clap when the vast super majority of Americans agree with the issue it's tied to. And so in that way, yes, it was a trap and it was very, very successful. Because it stayed one step. You're talking about like the trans athlete one. Yeah, whether it's that or it's the immigration, right? Immigrants kill that girl. That's not like a 50-50 issue. So yeah, I think he just kind of expertly planned all of them and they just didn't budge,

which I guess is good for them if that's what they believe, but it's a losing position to be in. What issue was the brain cancer kid tied to? It's good for them if that's what they believe, like illegal immigrant killer. For the kid, I'm not too sure to be honest. Well, he wants to be a cop. Maybe they still can't applaud for cops perhaps. Defund the police. They see a little kid with cancer in a police outfit, they're like, fuck you, little bitch.

Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's like, they hate the police and that's another 80, 20 issues. So it's crazy to think of it. I doubt it's, maybe it is. Like, yeah, do you have 20% of Americans hating police is crazy to me. Like, we're so far outside the police, I guess, if you're not hating the police. I think you might be right about 20% hating them, though.

And we can get to that in a second. We've got a lot to talk about. Riley, the Democrats are lost. Tell us about it. It's true. If it wasn't clear already from the bingo paddles, yeah, it's true. So yeah, they seem to be having some messaging issues right now. Before Trump's speech, there were rumors that they were going to be holding up empty egg cartons to try to disrupt his speech or even like noisemakers. And we did see, like you mentioned, Cardick, Democrats walking out in protest, following which they took the most like cringe photo you have ever seen in your life.

It was the most theater kid thing I've ever seen. They're all making these like stern faces. And this follows a viral video this week showing that several Democrat representatives were recorded like using the exact same scripted message. There's an overlay of it where they're literally exactly in sync. It's so bad. And then they're also now for no good reason using those little like Tik Tok, laugh microphones, because apparently that's relatable. I in effect, it's the exact opposite.

They seem really out of touch right now. Um, that's something that even people I know who are Democrats are attesting to. Perhaps all of this can be best summed up by a tweet that Matt flagged, um, from someone on the left who said We are the party of hall monitors theater kids the HR department and passive aggressive signs Not a single drop of testosterone in the entire party infrastructure. Do you agree with that assessment? I mean, there's also the the one thing that they're clinging to right now I think that the I think the best talent to where the Democrats are right now is not actually any of the that they're clinging to right now, I think that the best talent to where the Democrats are

right now is not actually any of the things they're talking about or any of the things that they're lost about or the dumb pictures or anything. It's their one issue that they keep clinging to, which is eggs. They're obsessed with eggs. They're obsessed with the fact that there are no eggs in grocery stores and you could easily be like,

well, of course that matters. This is the problem with the Democrats during Biden's term is they didn't care about the cost of eggs and the cost of Bill. How could you turn around and say it doesn't matter now? It does matter. It has mattered since the eggs vanished, which happened while Biden was the president. That is when I stopped being able to buy eggs. It was when Biden was like, do they think I'm that stupid?

That I just wasn't aware of the fact that I couldn't buy eggs months ago. It's part of this worldview that's basically telling everybody, we're going to get you a bigger slice of a smaller pie. But he doesn't really care whether that comes true. Remember, for him, it really is a little disturbance. If eggs are 10 bucks and you're a billionaire, that's a little disturbance for you, but not for most people. And then I went and I looked it up. So I'm like, am I crazy? You have B. Buttigieg talking about the cost of eggs and it's all Trump's fault. And I'm like,

maybe I'm wrong. And I've just totally misremembered this. And of course I'm not wrong. Of course we're being gaslit like actual abused spouses by these people. There's been a mass culling of hens because we have an avian flu outbreak. We've been battling it, I realized, for longer than I thought. It's been a couple of years. It's been pretty bad. And it got really bad at the end of Joe Biden's term. He culls all of these, or not him, I don't know actually what the mechanics are here

of who actually makes these calls in different states. It might be a state by state issue, but certainly it's just happening while I mean, if you subscribe to the idea of these idiots, which is like both sides, which is whoever is in office at that time is the king and everything's their fault, it's happening under Biden. Now, this is a problem for a couple of reasons for me. One, it's just like you're lying to my face. This all was done and began under Biden. The actual outbreak, all of the responses to the outbreak, up to and including the most recent culling that led to this total decimation of eggs available in America, and especially in places like California, I notice it's worse than even in Florida, but it's bad in Florida too. Yeah, that's annoying, the lying, but it's also

really bad because avian flu is a problem. And I don't even know that the decision to call all those hens was a mistake that the Democrats made or whoever the fuck was in charge of that decision. I think it's like you, avian flu has a 52% mortality rate when it hops to humans, which is super rare. There have been like 500 something cases over the last couple of years. It's a super gnarly disease. If you have mass plague happening among all of the hens in America, the odds of that mutating and jumping to humans easier become much higher. And that's really frightening.

So I think you do have to have some kind of a strategy to deal with this. And now we're in this hell information environment where nobody is talking about the actual issue, which is avian flu. It's not the cost of eggs right now. It's the fact that we could all be entering another pandemic potentially, and we're trying to figure out what is the best path to not be in another pandemic. And it's just like nobody fucking cares about that. It's just like Trump preempting them inside of his speech being like, no, you're responsible for eggs. But we knew that eggs were going to be the thing because Democrats have that plan in their response. They were talking about the egg carton fucking protest and shit like that.

And then you have Pete in his stupid appearance talking about the cost of eggs. And I don't know, it's the egg of it all for me. You know, egg in all of their faces. Egg in my face. We're talking about it. Molly, what do you think about eggs? When was the last you think about eggs? I really want one of those. They're bad people.

I'm going to get one. They're just bad people. I know it's a thing they're doing. I fucking hate them. I think that they suck. My hot take is that it's actually not that healthy. Their hot bar, it's so oily. I don't know how you eat anyways.

I think this- No, go off. Tear them into your ass. Go. Tell us about Erewhon. I love Erewhon. Their hot bar is not that good. It's great, but it's not that healthy. But I think this

whole marketing stunt is one of the biggest failures I've ever seen in media or comms. That one video that 23 Dems reposted, they all say verbatim the same thing in it. They don't even change it. They say the same thing over and over again. If you're going to be doing a clipping take, change it up. Do something different. Make it your own. Have your own brand. But it just goes to the same point as before. They're just following the same script, there's no real ability to have their own brand or have their own thoughts, which is more concerning than anything. I don't understand why they wouldn't try to at least make something of it. Not only that, one thing that I think is interesting, I don't know if you guys pay attention to this,

but because I'm like a tech and marketing nerd, this could be sophisticated. I don't know, they could be sophisticated because clipping and clippers are one of the biggest trends for going viral. Clippers are like an actual thing where you essentially, you take a long form thing, you take one piece of thing,

like video, you pop it in a discord chat or something of the likes, and then you have like a list of like 100 people or so and you put a bounty on it. And so like you say like, I want this video to reach, you know, let's say like a couple hundred thousand views for every hundred thousand views, you get $100. And so there's like a play to earn kind of stunt going on. I don't know if you guys remember Axie Infinity, but like this kind of like similar tangent, like Axie Infinity was like an ETH game back in the day and like the time of crypto. And so the blockchain based games play to earn. So you would go on, you'd play the game, you'd earn tokens, you earn rewards.

People in the Philippines were like literally making a living off of this. It was a whole thing. You could make up to $200 to $1,000 a month just playing the game. Anyways, long story short, I'm seeing lots of corollary. They're using some tactics, but they're not good at it. And so I don't know how effective it'll be in the end, but they're kind of just will be in the end, but they're just shooting themselves in the foot. It's really a tell that they've lost young people. That's where all the good ideas always come from, especially when it comes to new technologies. If they're bad at this, that's what it says to me, is that they don't have enough young people interested in what they're

selling. You know what we got to do right now? We have to take a quick break to thank our partner, AdQuick. Adquick, thank you for supporting PirateWires. One of the cool things about PirateWires is we get a lot of requests for partnerships and we get to work with people who I think are really cool. This is cool. You might have seen our Moonshub estate billboard on Nasdaq and thought, how'd you pull that off? The simple answer, we have no idea. We still don't. I will never know. We're writers and content creators, not billboard pros. Before AdQuick, pulling something like this off would have been a huge hassle. We didn't have the time to figure out the logistics, but with

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by post, make it larger than life with AdQuick. For all their messaging struggles right now, the left does have one person who is hot, who's dangerous, who young men actually listen to. And no, we're not talking about Luigi Mangione and his new sex tapes. We're talking about Hassan, who just recently got this glowing profile in Slate. Also this week, he did a little thing where he called for a sitting senator to be killed. If you cared about Medicare fraud or Medicaid fraud, you would kill Rick Scott. The reason why I'm saying if you cared about Medicare or Medicaid fraud, you would kill

Rick Scott is because, and not make him a prominent part of the Republican Party, is because he to this day is still also known as committing the largest Medicare fraud in US history. The good news is that Twitch swiftly brought down the hammer and banned Hassan for essentially calling for murder. That ban, however, lasted for less than a day. Meanwhile, others like Aiden Ross have been banned from Twitch for something like two years. Anyways, this is one of the new voices of the left.

Hassan is relatable to a lot of people. He does have millions of followers and he just has a little habit of calling for senators to be killed. It happens to the best of us, like I said, but the left also, like you mentioned, Solana has another new voice on the mic these days, none other than Gavin Newsom. The left has been looking for its new Joe Rogan, right? The Democrats have been talking about this for a while. And the Hassan direction to me feels the most obvious. He's been around for as long as Joe Rogan has been famous actually. There's just, he's operating in a parallel ecosystem in the world of stream streamers, like Twitch streamers, video game stream,

that whole entire thing, which I admit, I don't know as much as I should know about. I'm not as native to that scene. And he's a total sociopath, psychopath, I would say. This is a man who has endorsed terrorists for years. He has said he doesn't care about the rapes on October 7th. It's sort of like, what if that did happen? Don't give a shit. He's pro, like I would not, he's not a pro Palestine person. He's a pro terrorist. He's actually had terrorists on his chat, the Houthis, the Houthi, the one, the pirate.

He has celebrated him and he has repeatedly caused in praise for Luigi Mangion, which is an entire specific kind of leftist, someone who is pro the murder of the baddies. But as I noticed, you have sort of your thoughtful centrist Democrats online, like Kelsey from Vox. I saw her talking about, one of the other ones, about this question of what the Democrats should be and who they should be casting out.

And it was like to her an obvious thing, no communists, no Luigi Mangione shippers, none of the pro like assassination people. I've previously also seen her express disgust with John McWhorter's, I wish that Trump was assassinated comments. My concern for people like her is I don't know that the Democrats can actually survive without those people.

I think it's a huge population of people who have these ideas and care about these ideas, not in terms of the general pop, but certainly in terms of the Democrats. And so someone like Hassan, who is, everything Slate said is true. He is attractive. He is, I would say he's dangerous.

He is popular among young men. And I think he might be the future of the Democrats. But then there's Gavin Newsom. And he surprised me with his podcast this week. You mentioned Cardick, you just brought him up in the last show. What were you thinking when you saw that Mr. Newsom had a podcast?

You know, it's like the Game of Thrones. He comes up out of nowhere. Maybe Gavin is the new Joe Rogan. I thought that was crazy, but now I'm not so sure. I mean, it makes sense. California is in perfect working order, so he has nothing to do. So he decided to start a podcast.

The reason I brought it up earlier was because he kind of just admitted to Charlie. He was just like, yeah, we're just really bad. And he was like so nice, too nice to him. It made me uncomfortable. Charlie is the first important piece of this story though He has Charlie Kirk on as a first episode huge popular right wing influencer tons of followers like

Super Trump orbit like no there's not like oh, I'm talking to like a Republican But it's actually a guy who voted for Kamala Harris, right? It's like it's Charlie Kirk Yeah No, it's it's legit and And they knew that photo would break the internet and everyone was gonna at least watch clips of it, if not the whole podcast. And I thought the most interesting part was he was just really kissing his ass and asking like,

you guys are so good at the internet. Like, what should we do? And they even bring up the earlier thing we talked about where everyone was recording that exact same video, like the 22 people. And he said, oh, you didn't like that? Charlie made fun of him. And it seemed very sincere when And he said, oh, you didn't like that? Charlie made fun of him. And it seemed very sincere when he said like,

oh, you didn't like that. Like he thought it was a great strategy. Charlie's telling him it wasn't. And he's like, oh my god. No, no, no. My read of that was Newsom agreed with him that it was bad. Yeah, I know. But he was like, asked like sincerely like,

oh, that didn't work. And he's like, yeah, it was bad. And he's like, oh, okay. Like, yeah, I guess it was bad. Like he's like almost realizing in real time. I disagree with your characterization or I read it differently. I read it as Newsom really agreeing with that and being like, yeah, I didn't like it either. And what do you think about it? He was being giving thought it was really smart. I think that when I first heard you had a podcast the other day, I think Riley, you mentioned it. I was like, here we fucking go like another idiot doing another idioticic thing I gotta talk about. And then I saw the clip today. I was like, damn, wait a minute. It's a great tone.

He's personable. He has Charlie Kirk on. I saw in other clips, he's talking about, who are they? The brothers, the Menendez brothers, which is like just a super internet obsessed. There are these like sort of true crime girlies who are obsessed with the Menendez brothers. He's tapping into culture in a way that I did not anticipate from someone like him. And that's probably on me. He's a very successful

politician. He's been around forever. He's only ever presided over failure and he keeps succeeding spectacularly. Like, of course I shouldn't underestimate him. I thought the podcast was really smart. He's talking to the enemy behind enemy lines, not pressed at all, which is also how he was in his debate with DeSantis, where he was very surprised. I mean, he was like, yeah, let's do it in San Francisco, which should have been a slam dunk for DeSantis. Newsom kicked his ass.

And it's because he's really cool under pressure. He's, I think, on the right path here. I think that he says to me, he seems to me the only Democrat. You just contrast that with two things, I guess. One, what's happening on the far left as embodied by Hassan Piker. And then two, what's happening on the left in power, which is just the clown horror show that we saw in Congress, really today. For me, I think singing around Al Green was way worse than even the disruptions.

It's so pathetic and impotent and it's like cringy. You don't want to look straight at it. Why do they keep... Here's a question. Why do Democrats keep singing on screen? What the fuck is that? Can someone explain that to me? Why does that keep happening? Comfort. Comfort? This is weird. It's like life is not musical theater, guys. I know you want it to be. I know you saw Hamilton and got... Listen, I'm also not on this right wing like Hamilton is bad shit. Hamilton, phenomenal. I love Hamilton. I cry during that song, Satisfied, Tear Up.

Amazing, amazing musical. Life is not that, okay? Life is not written by Lin-Emanuel. Life is life. Act like a fucking human. It's weird. But Newsom's not doing all that. He's not out there defending that bullshit. He's making smart political moves. Of course, he's going to. There's a question that people are like online. I mentioned, talked a little bit about this and they said, oh, but he's still a sociopath and he'll change his views again and he'll get into office and do all these other crazy things.

Of course he will. I'm not talking about if he's a good person or not. I'm just saying like, is it effective or not? And I think what he's doing is effective. Do you think it's enough to win if he changes nothing? Well, who else do they have? Well, yeah, I prefer this side of the party than like Hassan's side.

So I guess I'll say that. And Nussbaum has never been that, right? He just doesn't care about anything. He's just this classic, he is this kind of late 20th century politician. He's classically in that mold of the late 20th century politician who believes in nothing, is totally sociopathic about views

and shifting views. Kamala is also in this mold, by the way. She's not a radical. The problem with her was not that she was a radical. She had all these radical policies like sex change operations for fucking illegal immigrants and shit. It's that she believes in nothing. That's the bigger problem. And he's one of these people and they're from the same machine, the San Francisco, California machine. And yeah, I mean, that's who he's one of these people and they're from the same machine, the San Francisco, California machine. And yeah, I mean, that's who he's going to be forever. He's never going to change. I think it will be interesting to watch once, I mean, kind of similar to what we were talking

about before, but like once they start to break out into their own like individual brands, like what kind of issues they actually take up. Like I think in that episode or maybe previously he changed his mind on transgender sports. brands, what kind of issues they actually take up. I think in that episode or maybe previously, he changed his mind on transgender sports. I don't know if it was in the show. I think it was in that show and then everyone wrote about it. The thing is he could act on that in does a handful of things, I think it puts him in an incredible position to be our next president.

Like I think he would handily win. He's very skilled, but I think he has to do something. 10% of it, 15% of it. I don't think he can do nothing. I think he might've won the last election if he ran. I said that when it was coming together. Like other than the money issue, why on earth would you have ever gone with Kamala

over Gavin Newsom? I think probably because Gavin Newsom didn't want it. I think behind the scenes, he said, absolutely not. This is a sinking ship. I'm going to support you from afar. But he's very talented at just making people feel like, oh, he's not that bad, which is how Democrats win elections. And he's just really good at that. He's like a prodigy at that. He's one of the best. He's the last remaining of that model.

And then there's nothing else. There's this question about the future of the Democrats, which is really interesting. He could be the steward of the party, the bridge maybe between the old and the young, but what is the young? Is it Hassan or is it who? I mean, Hassan is also someone,

again, this is a person who has endorsed mass murder effectively when you're endorsing terrorism and things like this. And again, he wouldn't call it to be fair to him, which I really shouldn't be, but I'm going to, he would not characterize it that way. He would characterize it as freedom, fighting and shit like this. And the Luigi Mangione thing included, he'd be like, oh, well the United's healthcare CEO mass murdered people with his decisions or something. That one is like, I don't even believe people

are serious on the Palestine stuff. I really don't believe they're serious on the United healthcare stuff. That he does not, I just do not believe that he truly believes that United healthcare CEO who he never heard of before that day he was murdered, is out there mass murdering people. I think that he's just a really evil guy who wants to see people he considers to be class traders executed. And I think he has a lot of followers and I'm really nervous that it's,

that I don't see any other young left-wing people who don't have that kind of energy. You know, who are they? Who are the really popular young center left Democrats? Like, I don't see that. I don't think that exists. Yeah, there are none. And the edginess with Hassan just sort of plays into his brand. And the more you push back against like, hey, you probably shouldn't call for mass murder, dude.

The more that just like, it has like an amplifying effect to where it only makes him seem even more big and even more prominent and only grows him even more. So, yeah. He's very good also at this thing that the... You see a lot from, honestly, like... Oh, am I going to get in trouble here? I will. You see it a lot from Muslims throughout the Middle East. It's like a very

Muslim terrorist kind of reaction where you do something extraordinarily fucked up, like terrorism, and then you clutch your pearls at the reaction to that. So he is out there. You could say all day, oh, he's being hyperbolic. He didn't really want He didn't really want the Senator from Florida, Rick Scott, to be killed. Both by my ear and also knowing the context, the broader context of Hassan and what he talks about and what he believes in. These are explicitly his politics. He immediately says, oh, you don't care about free speech. You're coming after me for I'm a victim. He immediately, he becomes the victim and he has any supporters stand up, they rise up.

They're like, yes, he is the victim. And it's just like this classic dynamic we see. And he's very good at it. And he, honestly, he has a kind of the aesthetic of a right-wing troll. He's even fit in a way that you don't see on the left. of the aesthetic of a right-wing troll. He's even fit in a way that you don't see on the left. You know, he's physically fit. It's kind of scary to me because like Biden was supposed

to be a bridge, right? And then if Newsom's next, then he's a bridge but it's just kind of a bridge to nowhere. Cause I don't think this whole like, I don't think this whole like Hassan thing, like there's not enough Americans that are going to support that kind of worldview in my opinion. Yeah, they will. So I don't know where they go. thing, there's not enough Americans that are gonna support that kind of worldview in my opinion. So I don't know where they go.

Like they had Destiny 2. Did you ever think they were gonna support men competing with women in sports or locked down the entire country for years? What about forced vaccination or coerced vaccination? These are all free speech. No one ran on those things. The idea that they would ban speech. Yes,

they certainly did. Biden ran on that stuff? BLM stuff. He allowed it, but he didn't run on it. Oh, no, no. We ran for president, no. But the Democrats, I guess I see what you're saying. Maybe they can't win a national election as president that way, but certainly the Congress people can run on this stuff. And I don't know, those policies, I never thought I would see... I'm naive of me, but I did not see any of that shit coming. Yeah, I mean, a scary thing here too is,

you know when you're on Instagram and you always get a notification to download threads and you never do it, because they're like, please read this thread? Well, there's one I really wanted to read, so I clicked on it, some restaurant over here. So downloaded threads and like, it just screwed up and didn't take me to that.

And so I just see the home feed. And the first thing is, you know, the image of some guy in a mask, like some I guess failed healthcare CEO shooting that happened recently. And then every comment is like, oh, I can't believe he missed, God damn, you know,

just like complaining and complaining that the CEO didn't die. And they're like, oh, I can't believe there were no deaths. I wanted one, but not this guy. You know, like these kinds of comments, it's like, this is, I didn't ask for, like I just downloaded threads for the first time. And this is the first thing I see.

Reds and Instagram are way crazier than Twitter even at this point on that kind of stuff. I think there's another big problem with this stuff is that it's feeding AI. It's like the way that we learn about the world is via this stuff. There's one thread I wanna loop back to when it comes to the Al Green stuff. So my

biggest problem with it was not even whatever the Democrats are doing stupid stuff and the world has changed in terms of what is considered acceptable before Congress and what's not. Got it? I chachi-piti'd in advance of this podcast. I was just curious what happened to Marjorie Taylor Green. And the answer was nothing, which is kind of what I suspected. I didn't remember there being a formal censure. And I didn't remember, like, I just didn't remember that at all. But Chat GPT was not satisfied in just telling me that Marjorie Taylor Green, nothing happened to her, which is what I asked. It said nothing happened to her, which is what I asked. It said, nothing happened to her in contrast with what happened to Al Greene being censored following his outburst.

It made it seem like the outbursts, first of all, were the same, like the same kind of outburst, they were not. And it also, it introduced context that I did not ask for that very clearly argued, it said, oh, and some commenters are saying, drawing a parallel between the difference of how, whatever, one was treated and the other.

And you could not walk away from that response that I did not ask for, that had nothing to do with my question without thinking, oh, when Republicans do it, it's okay. And when Democrats do it, it's not okay. And there's like bias here. It's chatty BT like shaping who's shaped really by the what people are saying online, of course. But it's giving me something that is now tremendously biased. And that's going to be a huge problem for us

moving forward is the bias of these things that seem to be modeled after people talking. I actually I push back immediately, of course, it's so futile, it's a Sisyphean task, teaching GPT about its own bias, which it doesn't remember and share with the next person. But the Joe Wilson parallel was right there during Obama. He was punished much more heavily than any of these people for a much slighter, very brief infraction. And that is really the parallel that you should have thought to draw

between Al Green and him. Al Green disrupted constantly, would not sit down, would not leave, would not stop talking, had to be escorted out by the sergeant at arms. You know, Green is a different situation than even MTG, though I agree that something should have happened to her. But what do you make of that part of like our conversation influencing these models and then that kind of perpetuating itself through culture? I mean, to your point, why give any context at all

there? Like I saw your screenshot of this. Your question was just like, what happened to Marjorie Taylor Greene? And it goes on this whole history of what happened with Joe Wilson, what happened with our or what happened with Al Green did not include Joe Wilson. And it's like, why give any context at all? Why not just answer the question at hand? It's weird that it's feeding in all this extra information, assuming that that's what you would want as well. Did you ask it to search?

Was it searching the internet or you just asked normal? I didn't ask it to, but it was. Okay. That's what I've seen. Anytime they bring in search, deep research, whatever it is, you get a lot more, I don't know if I'd buy it, biased towards what's written on the internet versus if you don't. Which is completely dominated by people, you know, with a certain kind of politics who are in media.

It was very crazy. I don't understand how it could be programmed like that to be. I'm a very discerning person online. I have a very specific taste. I have a very, I'm very sensitive to what I consider to be manipulative tactics and things like this. I write about this stuff a lot. The average person, I think, gets this answer and doesn't second guess it.

It's just like, oh, that's interesting. Oh, that's more context. Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. So nothing happened to her, but something happened to Al Green. I wonder why. And it's like, what is there about Al Green? Well, he's a Democrat. He's black. He is there about Al Green? Well, he's a Democrat,

he's black, he has a cane. Oh, it's a bias. Why does Margie, Margie's a white woman and no one is going after her. It must be that. There are all these obvious connections you start to make as a passive consumer of information. God, the AI, that's the biggest problem with AI, is going to be the way that it just handicaps our ability to interrogate information. Yes, but if you think about the evolution of media, this is also the beast that Elon is creating and has been pushing. There's an irony there with decentralizing media and pushing it out.

Before we would just have talking heads on different networks and it would just be more singular, one-to-one, and you'd just go there. As we've seen over time, those opinions are clearly informed by who's funding them. But now it's shifting to individual takes. Text is becoming much more popular in terms of a media information diet. We're going direct to the source.

Everybody's opening their own channels. And like, it's really just it's spreading really thin, which then is just like perpetuating these models that people are now going to. And so it's it's like the whole thing that I was kind of like thinking about is like back in the day, propaganda was much more obvious. Now it is like so subliminal and like very insidious and like just sprinkled throughout our timelines. And like, we can't really like discern yes or no, but with the 23 Democrats that just posted the same thing, we very vividly,

like vividly can see, oh, okay, like, yeah, we're all being sabotaged. There's a lot of like psychological manipulation going on and like engineering. Well, that's different than I don't know if that's even propaganda. That's messaging and it's ineffective. The bigger problem is who am I talking to on Twitter? I see these tweets blowing up that are pro China now, sort of anti-trade war stuff, anti-Trump, pro China, and not many comments, but in tens of thousands of likes. And I look at that and I think, who is in this room with me right now?

This is not, that is not a normal reaction. That's not the vibe here. Something is obviously amiss and why wouldn't it be? It's a trivial problem. The idea of like creating a bunch of paying whatever the cost is, creating thousands of like just farms of influencers and I don't mean like influencers in the model of celebrity influencers but units in this war that you can apply to the problem of influence. And I just think that we're, that's everywhere that we look. And I think that we're just, yeah, we are, I think the propaganda is in every direction

and it's getting worse. The internet is feeling debtor and I don't know how to navigate it. And I don't know how to get excited about it. Help me get excited about it before we move on to AILUP. Make me excited about it. What are the positives? Come on, what's going on? Part wires streaming now. There we go. Yeah, if there were all these demons to slay, you wouldn't have a demon slayer. And that's great.

Look at us. Look at us. I think a silver lining for chat bots is at least there's competition. And not just to leave it there because we're never going to roll back the clock on media. Like it's going to get more dispersed and there's going to be more junk and there's going to be more good stuff. And so in the end of the day, if you don't find someone that you believe or trust,

you're just going to have to go to primary sources. But none of us have enough time to do that for everything we care about. And so, I mean, we're actually going to rely on chatbots. So I think at least with enough competition, there should be ones that are good enough to help people do that. I don't see an end until we get there. I don't know that we get there. So this might be not positive and very, very negative what I'm saying, but I don't think there's a solution until we can do that, where everyone actually can do the research on literally

everything. Riley, leave us with a nugget of gold and happiness. I'm going to let you down because when Karik was saying about, when Karik was talking about different competition, I started thinking about different competitions in AI. Like if you're dissatisfied with your chat GPT answer, you're just gonna go to Grok. And then I started thinking about how that's just gonna

exacerbate us being in our little echo chambers and bubbles. So that's not a really positive outlook. I totally let you down, Solana. Okay, I'll do one. How about we're gonna get wooly mice pretty soon? We've got to get mice. That's cute. Yeah, but like in our houses.

Right, I mean, I would love to see wooly, like let's do a wooly mate. I wanna see people walking around with haircuts like that. You know who has a haircut like that? Matt, pull up a picture, Augustus Dorico. That mullet of his is looking very wooly mouse. Looking bad for my friend. Love it, love the wooly mice.

We should do more wooly mice content. You're correct. Yes. Wooly mice are the future. That we're hanging our hat on. They are the future. Now, a little talk about sex research and work with our good friend, Ayla.

All right, I am very excited to have this conversation with our special guest, Ayla in the house. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me. You bet. So I mean, I've been excited to talk to you on this pod for a while. I think there's a lot of, I mean,

how do I even introduce you? So I think that you are a kind of interesting truth teller. That's how I kind of came across you in the COVID years, which was a very sort of dark cultural moment, I feel, of quietness and silence and people not kind of sharing what they were thinking about the world. And you, for reasons maybe we can talk about in this interview today,

or just I think that you just didn't seem to really care what you were supposed to say at that period of time. And I found that super compelling and inspiring. I think we probably, I don't even, you know what? I don't have to preface this by saying we have disagreements on things. Maybe we do, maybe we don't. I know that you get a lot of shit now

in an interesting way from the right wing, the sort of traditional right. Obviously both of us spent a lot of time on Twitter and that's become, I think, a more right wing environment. But it's just interesting. I found you as someone who was getting targeted by the left. And I don't know, that just, I have a lot of respect for you as a thinker, as someone who goes her own way. And I have a lot of questions for you about your work and some of the various controversies you've been involved in. So yeah, that's that. That's your introduction.

Anything that you would like to add to that? I feel touched to the degree that you've noticed that. I kind of feel like it's like a silent battle that I've been fighting privately, where only I can see how much both the left and the right hates me. So, it feels really nice to know somebody else is paying attention. Yes, I think they probably for different reasons. The left, who knows,

the right I can maybe speak a little more to. And I think it's an interesting question where maybe we'll start. So obviously you are a sex worker. You are also a sex researcher. I believe that you said you now make more money on your sub stack than your only fans. Is that still, is that true? Yeah, yeah. Presumably. So very interesting.

I think it places you in probably a very original space. I don't think there is another sex richer. I do not think there's another sex researcher who also has an only fans. And I think that you are also probably the most relevant sex researcher alive right now. I think that you were doing the biggest studies. Is that, would you agree with that characterization? That's my guess. Yes.

So I think as that, and also I guess maybe let's use the word influencer on social media, which whatever, I don't know if it's a perfect fit for us, but we were both occupying this space of like, we have these prominent audiences online and we speak to them. I think probably on the right there's some nervousness that you're normalizing things that they consider to be wrong. Not just expressing your views and maybe to some degree in the world of influence that is

what we're all doing. I don't know. What do you think about that? Maybe just generally. I mean, the right's conception of wrong is just very different from my set of values. I feel like I've always been pro-personal freedom that feels like let adults do what they want and this extends to a lot of, like that has gotten me on trouble with both the left and the right. But then I'm like, when I was in trouble with the left, I kind of felt like the right, I was like sort of allied with them or something. But then I'm like, but I'm allied with you based on principles.

Like my principles are, let them something adults do what they want and also something, something pro market. But it turns out that like the right has like a lot of, just you can disguise a lot of pressure on people to conform under like, oh, this is good for society at large. Was that really understanding why or how. Right, well, the Alliance would have been based

on speech probably. At that point, I mean, the left was extremely sensorious and I think still very much is. And we'll see, I mean, the right, obviously, anytime anyone gets power, they seem to want to reach for that red silence you button. I don't want to talk about this too much. I want to talk about your work.

I would love to talk, how would you first, because I have a bunch of questions about your research, but before I get into them, maybe could you talk a little bit about your approach to sex research, why you got into it, what you hope to accomplish while working on it and just your method. I got into it, I mean, it was like a little bit low hanging fruit and mostly I just wanted to know

what was going on. I had a bunch of questions and there weren't answers to those questions. I didn't really have a long-term plan. I was just like, oh, well, I don't know what's going on. Maybe if I just ask the right questions to enough people, I can get a sense from my own curiosity. Ultimately, that's what's really driving all of it. I just want to know. We don't know. I'm just super curious. Give me a handful of those, just the kinds of thoughts that you had or questions you had back then when you started. What causes fetishes? Are fetishes affected by birth order? To what degree are fetishes malleable?

What kinds of gender gaps are there within fetishes? Are there anything in childhood that predicts different types of fetishes? What kinds of fetishes cluster? A bunch of that stuff. Partially, I got into it because I have some pretty weird fetishes and I want to know how weird is that? What does that mean about me? Why do I have these things? And so how do you go about figuring this out in the general public? How do you conduct your research? general pop, like how do you conduct your research? Building surveys, which I have slowly gotten less worse at over time and learning statistics, unfortunately, which you have to do once you have a

whole bunch of data. But yeah, I would just build these surveys and then put them out and you try and design the surveys to go viral, which is like an interesting philosophical difference between me and academics. Occasionally academics will send me surveys that they want me to promote on my platform to get higher sample sizes. And then after a couple mishaps where I didn't actually check the surveys, I started checking the surveys before I agreed to do this. And it's shocking to me how differently

they construct the surveys. It's like they're building it. It's like they think everybody's in school or something. Like it reminds me of the kind of thing that you would do if you're in school trying to complete something for coursework. There's no joy in it at all. It's extremely repetitive. In fact, like a lot of the repetitiveness of the questions I think comes from like poor models of like,

like you can get like scores per question to see how predictive they are. And the questions cluster makes them more predictive, but it also makes them more redundant. Can you give me an example of maybe how they would approach something versus how you would approach something? Yeah, like when I'm building a survey, I'm thinking extremely much like I'm designing a user product.

They're going to be on a website, I have to track when does attention drop off? Like what makes what question do I put next to keep the interest going? I'm very much being like, I want it to be an enjoyable experience for you to give me your data. Academics, not at all. So like, for example, they will ask the same type of question basically five times that I know looking at it, all of the answers people give to that are going to be massively correlated. You could get like 95% of the same information by taking one of those questions, but they're like, oh no, we could just throw in a couple more questions and get 4% more accurate data.

And I'm like, that's a level of attention that you're spending that you could have spent with a much more efficient question elsewhere. So they're just not thinking of it in terms of how do I work with the incentives of the people doing the survey? Now, I know probably a lot of people who are new to this are going to have the same question that I had when I first encountered your work, which was, how could your sample or your, I'm sorry, your surveys answers not be biased by your own audience,

which would seem in my opinion, I would assume it, I would assume that it would skew probably much more liberal on sex questions and very, maybe more aligned with you personally. So how do you account for that in the gathering of information? Yeah, it depends a whole lot on the topic that you're looking at. Some topics are much more susceptible to audience bias than others. For example, for measuring a correlation between height and weight, I would expect that to be roughly the same regardless of the population. If I were like, I wonder if height is correlated with weight,

probably my followers are not unusual. There there are some things that are unusual. So one, over time, I've like built a pretty good model of my audience and to see how they're different from the general population. So I have a sense of the kinds of questions that I should be careful about asking. And when I do ask those questions, I often pay for a randomized sample in addition to spot check. So I won't I won't replicate the entire survey and the entire thing, but I will take some of the questions just to see,

to give me a clue. And if there's radically different responses to those questions, then I'll be like, okay, my own sample is probably biased in some way. So like that's like one example of a way to do it. But there's a bunch of other stuff. Like one, if you're afraid that it's good liberal, and if 90% of my answers are liberal,

I just go look at the 10% that's conservative and I see how the difference is. I'm like, oh yeah, my audience is very biased. Let's go look at the section that is- Right, what I always do in your surveys, you do ask that, you ask about politics pretty early on. Yeah, you ask for as much demographic information as possible, that way you know exactly

who's taking your survey and you can try and control for some of these things. And if you're like, that method isn't fully useful. Like for example, if you're asking like something that ends up being extremely biased by race and like 95% of the people that answer you are white and you get 5% black, likely the kinds of 5% black people that are answering your survey are going to be different from actually the standard black population. So it's actually not like a foolproof method. It really depends on like the kind of things if you're working with the really asymmetric populations,

it can be a problem. But it does help. It's like one additional tool in the toolbox. And usually you want to use all of these types of things to get a clue for exactly how off your sample is. Let's get into some of the findings. There are, I think, you probably measured millions of interesting things, not millions, but many, many interesting things.

You certainly have measured many interesting things. There are a couple that I thought might be fun to talk about. The first one is, well, the gateway to this would be the gang bang of it all. You hosted this sort of like famous gang bang and have been sort of vocal about gang bangs. You spoke about your gang bang at her reticon. And what I found interesting about it was this, this puzzle of like, how do you, And what I found interesting about it was this puzzle of like, how do you curate a gangbang that is more interesting to women?

And what's interesting to me about that question is just obviously the idea that everyone wonders, which is how do men and women approach sex differently? And what have you found in the realm of that? And I wonder maybe broad strokes first, what have you found is the difference there? I think probably the fetish category might be a helpful way for you to approach that, but I don't know. I know it's a quite broad question. However, maybe you're getting into it. In general, women's sexuality is about power dynamics. It's like by far the most predictive thing when it comes to women's sexuality. And then for men just are into a whole bunch of other stuff, but at less frequent rates. And is it men, just are into a whole bunch of other stuff,

but at less frequent rates. And is it as important to them? So by power of the money, for example, like S&M, like 50 Shades of Grey type stuff, this is like the recurring fetish that you found? Yeah. I mean, there's a general overarching umbrella category that I'm calling power dynamics.

And some of this can be, for example, like daddy, little girl, or more gentle sort of caring and in addition to the S&M stuff, but anything that involves sort of like one person's will being exerted over the others in some way. This is like 90% of women prefer being at least a little bit submissive, which is just a really absurd amount for somebody to be into something that we consider to be a kink. And men don't feel the same way and they're not feeling dominant in the same numbers, right? Or wanting to be dominant.

They still are feeling dominant in absolute numbers, but compared to the amount that women are submissive, there's definitely a gap. My first thought there is it sounds like maybe in general, because of that disparity, women might be operating in the world slightly less satisfied. Is that possible? Like there's definitely a lot of submissive men. And if you're a submissive man, you're just kind of fucked when it comes to that. And also if you're submissive women,

you are a little bit factors around like, it's about a 1.5 ratio gap. So for every, you know, 10 sub, like dominant men, there's 15 submissive women. So yeah, maybe we should bring back harems, I don't know. I mean, it seems like with those kind of numbers, you might not even, you sort of couldn't even call it, it's not a fetish at that point.

It's just, it seems like we're just talking about female sexuality. Yeah, I mean, like the fetish, I'm using the word fetish, like kind of intentionally loosely. A lot of people have strong opinions about what you should use the word fetish to mean, which I don't describe to, on kind of strong opinions about this. But yeah, I mean, like for example, like blow jobs used to be considered fetishes

back in the day because it's like, why would you put a penis in a mouth? The penis goes into the vagina to make a baby. Like that's, it's like a weird thing that gay people do, right? So like our conception of fetish definitely changes and how popular things are changed, but my guess is female sexuality is yeah It's pretty standard. Have you noticed in your surveys any interesting differences in terms of sexual interest of any kind between age groups? With I'm wondering in particular about zoomers. There's a lot has been made about

Younger people having less sex. Have you just been keyed into this issue at all? And do you have any thoughts about it? Not super good thoughts. I haven't dived into this very strongly, but I don't measure, actually I do measure men of sex partners, but it doesn't seem particularly unusual. Like if you look at sex partners over time, it seems to increase with pre-standard linearity, but they tend to be much more mentally ill. Younger men and women or more? Especially women, but also men and women.

But the gap for young mentally ill, like in my data, the young women are just shockingly more mentally ill than any other group. How much? Like what number? I want to say it's like 4X as much, it's something crazy. I'll have to, I haven't looked at that specific thing in a while.

Well, I do have a question. Let's talk, we can get back to the survey. I want to talk about like attraction in a minute. But while we're on mental illness, is this because of maybe the pathologization of relatively mundane things like anxiousness and things like this? Are there just more diseases now that we're discussing? Or are women, younger women, actually, I don't know,

more broken in some way? I often find that in discourse, I think people overcorrect in the direction of narrative and social influence. And I find that people underweight things like, are there weird hormones in the water supply? Or like, I don't know. In this particular case, though, it does seem a little bit weird for there to be something in the water supply that's hitting women specifically.

And young women specifically. Young women specifically. It is a little bit weird. But we do have examples of, like for example, the antigen, the anorexia thing that just didn't exist until they introduced it. But it is weird that it's happening in mass. I think most of the time you see culturally adopted insanities, they haven't hit this scale. So I'm a little confused what's going on. Well, when you say mentally ill, I guess my question is what are you considering,

what are they considering to be mental illnesses? What are the mental illnesses that you're tracking? Yeah, basically I just have an item list where I say if you have moderate to severe of any of these, please select them from a list. So I didn't ask about diagnosis, it's not super robust, but it is like pretty consistent with a lot of people's findings. And so, for example, you can check just how many did you pick? How many mental illnesses?

And then like on average, I think the answer is two point four out of the list. And women's is something insane. Like young women is like four point. But you give me examples of the mental illnesses. Is it are we talking about like anxiety counts as a mental illness? OK, so it's not like they're all bipolar. Yeah, I mean, we're bipolar, we have bipolar one and two. It's like the schizophrenia, the OCD, anxiety, depression, ADHD, autism.

I guess my assumption would just be thinking about that, that having mental health stuff that you're working through is just culturally something now that people want to talk about. And so to have something like anxiety, probably not a lot of people were being diagnosed with anxiety a hundred years ago. It just wasn't, it wasn't like a, we didn't have a word for it. And I, so I wonder if there's really an uptick in mental illness or uptick in diagnosis of mental illness.

I'm not, I'm not sure. And so I wonder if there's really an uptick in mental illness or an uptick in diagnosis of mental illness. I'm not sure. For example, I have a sister who has anxiety. And she's not susceptible to any of the classic themes that we would think. I wouldn't consider her to be a liberal. There was a change in her diet or stressor inflammation thing. And I was like, oh, anxiety might be a lot more basic

than we thought. Fetishes are really correlated with mental illness. That's cool. Wait, what are, what are, oh fetishes are. Fetishes, yeah. And this is actually one thing that really updated me away from trans people being like a social contagion, like to some extent I think being trans is a social contagion, but sexuality is very difficult to change. It's like we pray the gay away didn't work, going to gay conversion camps, and I think it's very similar. So if you see very distinct fetish differences, I think this is like an indication

that the thing that's correlated with it is likely not social. But we do see changes in fetish rates with people having higher mental illness. But if I remember correctly, I don't think it's there with young females. I should double check. Well, we have seen a massive uptick in, this is a slightly maybe related topic, but a massive uptick in, this is a slightly maybe related topic,

but a massive uptick in female transition. Like trans men, not really a thing until very, very recently. You got a couple of kind of higher profile examples, but this was mostly like, it was mostly male to female. And now it's like, we've seen this huge uptick, especially among autistic women. Is that correct? I mean, that makes sense.

Right. But that just feels that does not feel like, I guess, that does feel sort of like something new and notable and not necessarily. It is true that F to M trans people have less distinct fetishes than female to male. Like, if you fill out the survey and tell me just look, tell me what fetishes you have, I can detect with pretty good accuracy if you're a male to female trans person, a trans woman. I cannot tell us with nearly as much accuracy if you're a trans man, which means that like the sexuality of like one of these is much more distinct than the other, which is, I would say, a clue that it feels a little bit more social for one

of the groups. Not 100%. Obviously, there are people who extremely experience this for real. Well, I guess one thing I'm wondering is, moving on to some more of your findings, you did a whole survey on attractiveness, or a series of surveys, really, with men and women first and then men putting their face up

for to be rated. And you had some interesting findings there. Could you walk me through maybe just what got you into this and then what you found? I feel like I wanted to do this for a while. I wanted to see how off people were in their self assessments. Basically like how hot do you think you are personally?

Yeah, and this was a much more intensive survey to do because you have to get people to submit faces, you have to record a bunch of information with each face and then get ratings which you then pair with those faces. And I did, I think, around a total of roughly 400. But yeah, so I had many women submit their faces and get them rated. Yeah, and basically I found that everybody overrates their face.

People who are unattractive overrate their face more than people who are attractive, and men overrate their appearances more than women do. All right. So I have an immediate question about that. We have a kind of meme in society that, or not a meme, a truism, that women are much less confident and men are much more confident. Men are grossly overestimating, but women are underestimating how attractive they are.

It sounds like you've just discovered that's not true. Both are overestimating, but perhaps men a little bit more. Yeah, that sounds correct. But both do over, like women also delusional. Yeah, women are also definitely delusional. How delusional are we talking? Like sixes think they're eights or fours think they're, like what is the level of delusion? I think it was like roughly a point gap of two points out of 10.

That's crazy. Yeah, it is pretty strong, which I can feel in myself, right? Like I remember in my early 20s, I was like trying to figure out how hot I was. And I really, really wanted to believe that I was eight out of 10. And I tried to like warp reality such that I was an eight out of 10 or something, but everybody's doing that. I think actually, uh, probably people have a very similar phenomenon with IQ. Like everybody kind of wants to think that they're a smart, smarter than they are. That seems a little bit more difficult to measure. Yeah, it is. I have so many questions about the attraction thing. Cause I don't, I was looking, I saw, I went and I looked at some of your faces and I felt that they were more

attractive, like I think that maybe I was also assessing people, like I think that people are maybe more attractive than your numbers came in. And you, for example, I hate to make this personal, but I saw on the whatever pod, which we'll get to in a minute, I want to go off on the whatever pod just yet. You gave yourself, what was, do you mind sharing the number?

4.6, yeah. I don't, see, I don't, that's not, that does not strike me as true. That feels, something feels off there for me. I feel like you're much higher than a 4., you said two, six? 4.6. That's, you're much higher than, I don't know that it's right.

It also makes me feel- It's possible that the photo that I submitted was less flattering. What do you think accounts for the delusion? First of all, it seems nice that people are a little bit delusional about this. It seems like, that's like a nicer, I'm glad to discover this rather than the other direction.

Like people seem to be walking through the world happier than they could maybe should be. What do you think accounts for the disparity? I mean, obviously everybody wants to feel as though they're the prince or princess of their own story. It just feels really nice that it makes you walk through the world with more confidence. I think there's a chance that photos aren't doing it well compared to video. Like if you take just a photo of anybody, like something not moving is somehow

inherently less attractive than something that is moving. Another part is really nice. Like sometimes we talk about this as sort of negatively like, oh, look, all of the men rated all the women really ugly, like men have impossibly high standards. But maybe you should be rating photos low because you have no other information. And the rest of the information, you can become a 10 given personality and body language and charisma. So that's what that gap is left there for possibly. You mentioned something like this in particular with women rating men.

That personality came into play more. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I mean, that's my theory. I mean, this is what it seems the popular knowledge is, which seems likely right. That it's possible that men overrate themselves more because women rate them lower because personality matters more to them. You can't, men are more disadvantaged

by failing to be able to communicate personality through photos. Which we would see in Tinder data, right? That, yeah, that's true. Men just crashing and burning on that app. Yeah. Which would maybe indicate an opening for someone who wants to do a version of Tinder

with short little videos. I don't know why we haven't seen that yet. Yeah, that's true. I mean, like a little TikTok. Yeah, I've noticed myself that, I mean, back when I was single years ago, it was like voice and movement. I was like much stronger with that

than I was with just a straight picture. And I, yeah, I often, I often wondered what that also meant about people who maybe just really succeeded at the picture. Like it would suck to always be disappointing people when you met them in person, which I think I experienced quite a lot, like in the other direction, like maybe like, oh, this is not the picture was not who you are.

You were way better than your picture. I think I was way better than my picture. I don't think they were. I would encounter people who are not quite a lot. Oh, yeah. But I guess what were your maybe novel takeaways about society from from this experiment or survey? There's something kind of comforting in realizing we're all ugly a little bit. Like I have some of my female friends submit photos to get rated and we all just came out.

To be fair, the entire graph of all of the ratings was pretty low. So I guess it makes sense. But there was something about like, oh, wait, we're not all supermodels. We're just kind of like, duppy faced ladies, just try to get by in life. And I've actually felt way more free since then. Like, there's a way where it's like a low level stress to try to be thinking of yourself as more attractive than you are? I think there are, like when people find you attractive, they just are really keyed in and they're like really, they're locked in, they're trying to get your attention, they're giving you lots of attention. And there are a lot of people I'm sure that you've encountered

like that. But I often wonder how strange it is. I wonder about how strange it is that, you know, I've spent my whole life in the world and it took a very long time to meet someone who I was attracted to enough to want to really date seriously. That seems to be the case with most people. We encounter people all day long, constantly, every day, especially if you live in a city. You're just surrounded by people. You'd think that you should just immediately find someone if we were all rating ourselves properly. But actually what we're learning is that attraction is just,

there's this other part to it that has nothing at all to do with the, I guess, perfectly symmetrical features and things like this. I saw this episode of, what was it, that top model show when I was very young. And it was, I think it like the first season it might've been. And I remember this girl who looked like

a sort of pixie type girl. And she was like the scientist on the show who was like an atheist. And she wasn't about this reality television. And she's like, beauty, there's nothing special about it. It's just, I happen to have, she remember her saying like, I have very symmetrical features and it's that simple.

It seems like it's not that simple. Would that be your takeaway? That there's certainly more to that perhaps or no? To physically, there's way more than symmetrical features. I think the whole symmetrical feature thing being the cause of beauty is a big fat myth. I don't know if that's what you're asking though. It is, I would like to know more about what,

separate from the kind of quality maybe that we don't quite understand that's what you're asking though. It is. I would like to know more about what, separate from the kind of quality maybe that we don't quite understand and separate from personality, what is attractive? What makes someone attractive? Oh, well, when females, it's like usually replicating neoteny. So the more that you look kind of like a baby, the more people find you attractive. Oh, big eyes. This is like a short mid-face ratio, like small jaw compared to the rest of the head. Like, for example, I have a really long mid-face ratio, which is not ideal for my, for beauty standards.

But the stuff that like looks not old, I guess. Has that been the same always? Do you think or from what you can tell, yes, we don't have, you know, all the data. I mean, likely humans have been getting more neotenous over time and my guess is this is coming from this sexual selection pressures. Like women who look more like babies are more likely to reproduce. And anything else besides looking more like a baby? Healthy. I mean, it's just a bunch of proxies

for like youth and health. Basically you want long luscious hair. You want good waist hip ratio. We've like, we have this pretty well studied. You want sort of lighter eyes. It's because babies tend to have lighter eyes. You want like high contrast between hair. Because younger people have the distinct outline around the irises. So you want high contrast there.

People tend to lose their eyebrows as they age, so you want like very clearly defined eyebrows. You want like plush lips because as you age the top lip drops. find eyebrows. You got like plush lips because as you age the top lip drops. So this is why people overfill their lips to like really signal that they are in the opposite direction. I don't know, small nose because noses sort of get larger as you age. So interesting. I guess to go back to my sort of thinking about this as walking through the streets, you know, how strange it is to be surrounded by so many people and find none of them really attractive enough to date until you do. And then it's this very kind of shocking feeling and an overwhelming feeling.

Do you have any thoughts about what that might be? What might account for that? Like what causes people to want to date someone else? Yeah. Uh... Basically, like what is it... So I guess I'm talking more about this concept of love at first sight, this overwhelming feeling of attraction that you would have for someone

who maybe just if you were looking at photos was technically as attractive as, you know, attractive people, but is overwhelmingly attractive to you. I don't do. Did you experience this? Like you're walking on the street and then you see somebody and you're like, man, I want to date that person, even though you don't know, did you experience this? Like you're walking on the street and then you see somebody and you're like, man, I want to date that person, even though you don't know anything about them. I don't think I've ever experienced this. Interesting. Maybe I'm just, who knows?

I do think it's- Maybe you should do a poll to see how common this is. Often I'm like, I have blind spots when I don't have experiences. It was just an overwhelming feeling of attraction. Like I'd never, yeah, overwhelming I would say. An immediate knowledge about, not a knowledge is the wrong word,

a knowing, a knowing that like, wow, this is something special. So I wonder, like I did the, maybe you know this like a date me survey where I met a guy who ranked really high and then we went on a three day date and we didn't have attraction at all. It was like the opposite of love at first sight.

It took a while to build and we kind of brute forcedday date and we didn't have attraction at all. It was like the opposite of love at first sight. It took a while to build. We kind of brute forced it. And we ended up having problems in the relationship down the road. And the relationship was great. Don't get me wrong, but there's definitely like unusual set of problems that neither of us had had in relationships before that came from like, I don't know, it's like difficult to describe, but different cultural stuff. And I'm wondering if there's something in like some sort of deep intuition that bodies have that the love

and first sight is helping select on. Yeah, well, that would be the sort of what, like you can judge a book by its cover kind of thing, which I sort of, well, actually, this is an interesting. What do you think about this idea of, what is the word for it when you can tell who a person is by what they look like. This is you see people talk. It's like a meme now on right-wing.

Chronology or something. Yes. What do you think about this? I don't know. I don't know. It's a weird thing where sometimes intuition is better than we think it is. And then also intuitions are really wrong a lot of the time. Probably it's accurate in some circumstances, but then can it's accurate in some circumstances, but then can be easily fooled in some circumstances. I don't know. Have you read much Ayn Rand? No.

Any at all? I read the Wikipedia page for Objectivism. Okay, so she has these, her villains tend to be physically repulsive. And her, I mean, some of them are not, some of them are just like these really tragic, hot people who could have been decent. And then just were, just they completely corrupted

in life and did horrible things. But generally speaking, especially in Atlas Shrugged, yeah, they're like really ugly people. And the heroes were really hot. And I've noticed a huge uptick in the, in kind of people discussing, um, the villains of society in this way. You hear people talk about phrenology all the time. And I guess I just, I would love to see some more insight into this. If you like,

why would love to see what you really could tell about a person based on how they look. I wonder if there would be some way that you could survey that you have all their faces now, what, now. What could you draw from them, from their weight or their BMI, the size of their features, the color of their features? Is there stuff that you could draw from that? I would be curious. I would like to know. Yeah. I think people have done some studies on this. My guess is in order to do a good one, you have to have a very high sample size because my guess is that it's relatively small effects. You've surveyed, you have numbers, numeric, you have a number for how hot people are and

you have their politics, right? Did you see any? That's true. I didn't actually look at that yet. It'll be interesting to know who's hotter, the left or the right. People have done these surveys. I'm pretty sure this has been done. I don't remember the results, but probably liberal people are hotter

because liberal people tend to be more upper class. Well, interesting. I would be curious to know. Okay, I guess we got to talk about the whatever pod. So you go on this trash podcast. I've seen Cliff's podcast for a long time. This is a podcast. Let me just sort of, I'll characterize the podcast.

You can tell me if I'm wrong and you've actually been on it. But my sense of the podcast is it's the show where the male hosts bring on like kind of trashy women who have only fans and are maybe irreputable by the standards of the right wing. And then they kind of demean them and tell them that they're bad. They have themselves rate themselves.

They're like, no, you're not that hot and all of these kinds of things. And it's always just struck me as kind of a dark show. First of all, I mean, what is the whatever pod? Yeah, I also had like occasionally seen short clips of it and I had the impression it was quite catchy. Yeah, it's like a blow up doll. They have a blow up doll of a woman who's usually, yeah, it's like a super, I don't

throw this word around casually, but it's a, it's a kind of misogynistic show, I would say. I would actually call it that. It feels like an implicit pact where women go on to get mass humiliated and then they get a bunch of traffic to their OnlyFans. It's kind of a funny explicit trait where it's like you make fun of me, but then you jack off to me and then hate me.

That's what it is. Well, and you put up your own, you put up your link after your appearance. Before I do, I'm gonna ask you how well that did. But first, can you tell me a little bit about your experience on the show? Yeah, I was pretty nervous going on because I was like, I don't know, this is not a great idea.

I did a prediction market to see if I would regret it in advance and I think it was like a 30 something percent that I would regret it. But my philosophy is I want to try things. And this seems like scary and maybe a bad idea but I have no idea what will happen if I engage with this side of the world. So I've got to try it at least once just to see what goes on. So I decided

to try it at least once. And then it was, it's definitely that one guy, Andrew, was just really terrible. I don't mind general hostility or people disagreeing with me or calling me a whore, but he's just so yeah, my experience of the thing is just very unpleasant. They were trying to make us mad so that they could get some sort of dramatic reaction and then clip that and then get a lot of views and traffic for it. Yeah, I guess I, now that I'm, I watched your interactions and it seemed like they just really wanted to catch you. The one guy in particular really wanted to catch you being stupid. Like you're not as smart as you think you are.

And the whole thing about really, like, maybe the kind of thing a certain kind of guy wants to hear about women was my take. And also, I felt like maybe you were the wrong one to bring on. Like, I wondered if they did their research. I didn't fully know. Like, it's just that you seemed a little too dangerous to bring on and I think you did a pretty good job. What was the reaction that

you received following your appearance? During the comments all hated me and thought I was very stupid. And then afterwards there was a clip that went viral with me trying to explain what a correlation was to the really annoying guy. And I think that was the first time I've been widely publicly loved in a while, which felt pretty cool.

I'm used to going viral when people hate me and going viral when people like me, I was like, holy shit, could I do more of this? It feels so good and it makes me want to keep producing content. It was so lovely. What is your sense of why people, you say you go viral for being hated. When that happens, why do you think it's happening? Some part of me is in a constant state of shock that the world is like the way

it is because most of the time I'm doing stuff that feels very normal to me and, and people just really have a strong reaction to it. Like the birthday gangbang, like that was pretty fun, but it was like, so skydiving. I don't know. There's like a bunch of scary things and people just really latch onto it. So I, I don't know.

So the birthday gangbang made people mad. You've asked some questions, some sort of a taboo question. You're, you're explaining, not even taboo questions. You're asking questions about taboo subjects that really drive people the wrong way. It seems to me that people think that, well, it seems to me that people think that by virtue of you talking about the things you talk about, you're normalizing them.

Do you think that's true? Like, do you think the world becomes, do you think that we see more sex workers because of the public speaking that you do on these topics? I think it's likely that we see more sex workers because of the public speaking that you do on these topics? I think it's likely that we see more sex workers because of the public speaking. Yeah, I think you're really opposed to that. Maybe they're there. That's interesting that you would agree because I think that they would think that too.

Yeah, but I know sex work was the best thing that ever happened to me in my whole life and for most of the sex, I know it also is the case. And for sex workers that hate it, usually they stop a lot faster. Well, I was less, I'm not, we could talk about sex work another time. We're running out of time here. I want to get back to the whatever pod really quick.

Well, I guess it is about sex work. Cause I'm wondering, I saw you put up your OnlyFans link following your appearance. Did you see a huge uptick in, or any kind of uptick? Yeah, there was a bit of a bump. I was hoping to get more from there was also bump with Substack. But yeah, I was like afterwards before I went viral for people liking me, I felt pretty stressed out about that experience that I thought had done a

terrible job, which I mean, I don't operate well under stress. I probably could have behaved a lot better. But I was like, I'm going to at least get a couple thousand dollars out of this. Yeah. I mean, I think it was more than a couple thousand dollars, but yeah. But you've made a lot in Only If Fans, right? You're sort of one of the more successful ones. Yeah, I don't earn that much anymore, mainly because I just don't like it that much and I don't pay attention to it.

So it's like, I just have it short of running itself at this point. What is the reason that you don't like it that much and I don't pay attention to it. So it's like, I just have it short of running itself at this point. What is the reason that you don't like it? It's just boring. It's repetitive. I like solving problems and figuring stuff out. And I already figured out OnlyPans. I guess occupying the position that you do, as we kind of talked about at the beginning of the podcast and a little bit throughout, very hated by...

I hate it's the wrong word. I would say very triggering to both the left and the right for probably a variety of reasons. You've occupied this interesting space where you've seen, I would imagine culture change. Where do you think culture is right now? We might be, I don't know how much time you spend on Twitter versus other platforms. So we could also be just blinded by Twitter, but what is your sense of where culture is right now more broadly, more broadly than this whole conversation, just like where is America today? We're definitely seeing a backlash against the woke stuff,

seems pretty obvious. I think we're also seeing a backlash against sex. People seem to be much more sex-negative than they used to be. Like, I've been a sex worker online for over a decade, and like the attitudes around open sexuality have just drastically shifted. I noticed this years ago. I noticed this when like the left was,

I noticed this in like 2020. I was surprised by this coming from the left. I sort of felt that like even 2017, like me too in a sense was like wrapped in sex negative language. Like this idea of like affirmative consent and things like this and very obsessed with college sex behavior and the demonization of maybe even typical male sex behavior. Now we're

seeing a different version of it with the right online, but I've just seen it for years and I thought, oh, this is interesting. I thought we would always just become more progressive sexually, but perhaps not. It seems like we're entering a more conservative moment. Yeah. It's unfortunate. It's just a power struggle between different cultures right now. And then sex is used in whichever way gives a different demographics, more power. Like sex work is the hue of an exchange.

Does it exploit the man? Does it exploit the woman? Depends on which side you're on. And so if you can like sell a more convincing narrative that give your side power, it's just like the sex positivity is just I think a victim to whichever culture war can use it better. And right now saying like sex work exploits women or men or whatever is just much more viral meme. Well, yeah, I mean, where do you think it's going? Do you see I've seen a broad backlash against porn from the left and the right.

Obviously, sex work is like prostitution is illegal, but porn is not. Do you see that coming or not? Because also, it's like weird to see this cultural difference at the same time that there are more people participating in porn than ever before. Yeah, definitely. They were going more anti-porn, which is pretty sad. People view porn as exploitative, which is pretty sad. We're seeing porn banned across subreddits. And it makes people feel weird.

A lot of it is like, think of the children. And this is where I get in a lot of trouble. But I remember being a minor, and I was a sexual being, and I was watching porn. And people have this really strong, I think we're supposed to protect kids from porn. The concept of like why, when do you pick the line for, let's get away from sex. Let's talk about voting. Like, like, or let's talk about

drinking. You know, what, at what age should you be able to go and you know, go to the bar and have a shot of hard liquor? Is it 18? Is it 21? Is it 15, 14, 13? Why 13 and not 12? Why 15 and not 15 in a month? We have to just draw a line somewhere

and probably it's never gonna be. It doesn't seem like there is a good line, a right line. There can't be a correct line. Yeah, I think that's also a hard problem. There's a lot of things that are continuous in reality, but we have no ability to draw a continuous line, Yeah, I think that's also a hard problem. There's a lot of things that are continuous in reality, but we have no ability to draw a continuous line, so we have to do a line. I think that's makes sense. Well, cool. We unfortunately are at the end of our time here. I get a jet. I know that you do as well.

Thank you for giving me all of your time. Thank you for sharing all of your answers. You can check out Ayla on Twitter, is there anything that you wanna plug? Your Substack perhaps? Yeah, my Substack, aela.substack.com. And that's that guys, thanks for tuning in. We'll catch you here next week. Remember to rate, subscribe and review. Oh, and last reminder, if you are listening to this,

as I mentioned at the top of the pod, if you're a listener more than you are a viewer, I'm trying to run an experiment right now. There seem to be a ton of you and less views on YouTube. Would love it if you could hop over to YouTube and just look at this video, you know, throw it a link on YouTube specifically. I want to just see what happens this week. Thank you for your time.

Ayla, thanks again. It's been real. Have a great weekend, guys. Thank you.