Pirate Wires - LA Riots & The Waymos Are Set On Fire (Ft. Liv Boree & George Hotz)

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

EPISODE #96: Welcome back to the pod! Time to party like it’s 2020 with some “fiery, but mostly peaceful protests”. We get into the riots in Los Angeles and all the insanity on the internet. The Waymos have become a victim in this destructive society. Should we arm the Waymos? Did they die for our sins? People like Katy Perry are now rewriting the history of California and America, and the protest extend to multiple cities. Finally, Greta makes it to Israel on her selfie yacht.Featuring Mike Solana, Riley Nork, Blake Dodge, Liv Boree, George HotzWe have partnered with AdQuick! They gave us a 'Moon Should Be A State' billboard in Times Square!https://www.adquick.com/Sign Up For The Pirate Wires Daily! 3 Takes Delivered To Your Inbox Every Morning:https://get.piratewires.com/pw/dailyTopics Discussed: https://www.piratewires.com/p/free-mexicohttps://www.piratewires.com/p/it-was-chaos-the-la-riots-a-first-hand-account?f=homehttps://www.piratewires.com/p/what-does-waymo-mean?f=homePirate Wires On X: https://twitter.com/PirateWiresMike On X: https://twitter.com/micsolanaBrandon On X: https://x.com/brandongorrellRiley On X: https://x.com/rylzdigitalBlake On X: https://x.com/dodgeblakeLiv On X: https://x.com/Liv_BoereeGeorge On X: https://x.com/realGeorgeHotzTIMESTAMPS:TIMESTAMPS:0:00 - Welcome Back To The Pod!1:00 - ICE Protests In LA Turn Into Riots13:30 - Re-Writing American History25:30 - The Waymos Are On Fire, Burning Down Cities1:00:15 - ADQUICK - Thank You AdQuick For Sponsoring The Pod1:01:30 - Greta Watch - Greta Gets 'Kidnapped' By Israel1:14:00 - Thanks For Watching! Like & Subscribe#podcast #technology #politics #culture

She writes, Los Angeles, founded by Mexican settlers in 1781. That's incredible. None of that is true. Basically, they're trying to say, like, we're anti-anti-immigration. So why would you behave like this? We're talking about a world in which LA is so violent that the way most have to straight up leave.

Aren't we going to have to arm the way most at some point? I'm moving to Asia. I don't know. I think this is all cooked. What's up, guys? Welcome back to the pod. We have the legendary Liv Borey back with us today. It is always a pleasure. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. back with us today. It is always a pleasure. Thank you for joining us. Just saw Liv and George Hatz at an event for Founders Fund called Symposium. And it's just so fun talking

to both of you. I'm glad you're here. Clearly we're talking about the LA riots. Let's just get into it, man. The LA riots. Riley, take it away. Yeah, it's one of LA's favorite pastimes as a good old-fashioned riot. And that's exactly what broke out over several days this past week in downtown Los Angeles. Although the definition of riot was hotly debated over on Wikipedia, as Ashley covered for us in a recent piece this week. But this all started after ICE raids ramped up in the city under what the law enforcement agency called a targeted enforcement operation. Basically going into illegal immigrants, places of work, literally targeted a Home Depot parking

lot and apparently arrested over a hundred illegal immigrants in a single day. Anti-ICE protests broke out shortly after that and once some of the images and videos of these protests started to go viral, Donald Trump called for the deployment of up to 4,000 National Guard troops and more recently dispatched approximately 700 Marines as well. This was the first time since 1965 that National Guard troops have been federalized without a governor's request. The last time being during civil rights protests in Selma, Alabama. And the reason this incident went against a governor's wishes

is because Gavin Newsom and other California leaders called the move inflammatory. Newsom said on Saturday, quote, the federal government is taking over the California National Guard and deploying 2,000 soldiers in Los Angeles, not because there is a shortage of law enforcement, but because they want a spectacle. I went down there on Monday and got to see some of that spectacle myself. Blake interviewed one of the independent journalists who's been covering things on the ground.

Some of the highlights have included people on dirt bikes waving Mexican flags around a burning car, like some kind of Mad Max merry-go-round situation. Of course, burning way most which we will get into later. Looting stores including a local sushi restaurant. Some dude seizing his 15 minutes of fame and delivering an absolutely Oscar worthy speech to some police officer which maybe we can play a clip of. And you stand here and you allow it. I am sick and tired of it. And as the protests have started to spread to other cities, there was also another viral moment in New York where a couple seems entirely unbothered that they're like blocking this woman's commute to work.

How do you as white people feel about stopping a black woman from going to work? Oh no, not work. But like I mentioned, these protests have been spreading to other cities now. This is sort of becoming a national thing at this point. I will stop my rambling and let you guys share your thoughts on some of these anti-ice protests. I do have a question for Liv immediately, which is as a native Brit, could you ever imagine yourself lighting something on fire in America and waving and waving the at the Union Jack around. Do you know how hard I fucking worked for my green card? It's

taken years and so much money. I am the most model citizen I could could be because, you know, not only out of fear of something reprisal, but I'm just like, great, if I've chosen to go and live in a country, then I like, great, if I've chosen to go and live in a country, then I, in my opinion, I've chosen to like, respect its, its laws and its society. So no, I could not imagine doing it. That said, I mean, there, I have some sympathy for the idea of civil disobedience, like that is sometimes necessary. Governments do whack shit. And there needs to be some way for the people to get their voices heard. Does it mean destroying a bunch of little a fleet

of little autonomous vehicles? Absolutely not. Yeah, it's it's I just don't understand the thing I truly don't understand is why would you go and flag wave the flag of the country that you left? truly don't understand is why would you go and flag wave the flag of the country that you left if you're trying to fight for the fight against the idea you know there's basically they're trying to say like we're anti being we're anti anti immigration so why would you behave like this right on that ground floor it's like who are these people who are we looking at it's hard to tell you we have all these viral images on social media and clips. And even the people who are the journalists who were there can't really, they're not interviewing everybody.

It's a crazy mob that's kind of gone mad. So are they Mexican immigrants? I think probably some of them. Are they Mexican, like sort of descended of Mexican immigrants? I think probably some of them. Are they just crazy white people? Definitely some of them.

I definitely saw a couple of those. Are they professional agitators? Are they just kind of out there for what looks like at one point a kind of very violent barbecue sort of atmosphere? There was a moment when I think a corner store was looted. Blake had in your interview, the guy described this moment where everyone was walking around with like a Michelob or something that they had stolen. And it's like, I don't know what that is even at that point. I know what it was supposed to be and what it was represented as, which was this, this fight for Mexicans. But yeah, the messaging was super confused, which has made this kind of hard to

wrap, to sort of wrap my head around. And I still at this point don't quite know what they are. So like, is it, you know, is it civil disobedience? Like what are they protesting at this point? And then that brings me to my next question, which is like, if I wanted to actually really give them the benefit of the doubt and say, okay, this is a principled protest and they have a reason

they're mad and they kind of represent one thing, it would have to just be something like, they're mad about deportation, generally speaking, like just generally deportation, not just the abrigo thing where it's like, this guy's being deported and he shouldn't have been, but straight up, these people are being deported and they should be, but I'm against the concept

of deporting people who got here illegally. And so then at that point, I'm like, well, I don't agree with that. But we're already sort of like three levels in where I'm like, I don't actually fully know what we're talking about. I know what I think about these issues, but I don't know what they even represent. George, what have you made of it all, if anything? I don't trust the news. I think it's all fake.

I think just how do we know there's anyone even there? It's all just deep fakes. What are they trying to manipulate you to believe, right? Like, I just, every time I see something, I'm just like, I don't, is this happening? Did anyone here see it? Did anyone here see it with their own eyes? And you're sure someone didn't shove a VR headset on you? I think it's all fake. It's a TV show. It's good. I I mean are you sure that what you saw was an actor

using the fielder method? It's just impossible for me to engage with any of this stuff on the surface level. I think that it's all, again like whatever you're being fed the algorithms are so much more intelligent than any single one of us. So they're designing to manipulate you to believe something or to feel something. And the question is what? Right? It's not forget the surface level event, right? Forget the airborne toxic event that doesn't even matter what it is. The question is just why are they doing?

Right? Like it's all just such nonsense. Riley, I do think. Blake. Can I say this really quick? I do think to George's point, it's really tough to make sense of all the activity. But based on our reporting and interviews and doing like really deep dives on the internet to find raw footage, I think part of what's confusing is there's not just one monolithic group. It seemed like in LA there were legitimate

protests, lots of people marching. They were not only upset about the immigration raids, but the way that they were carried out. Like some people were arrested at immigration raids, but the way that they were carried out. Some people were arrested at immigration offices, courthouses, and ice field offices. So these are people that might have court dates for asylum hearings and things like that. And then they're being deported quickly without due process, as we might typically understand it. I feel like there were protests on those grounds. And then there was a bunch of chaos and people looking to have fun and cause mayhem and take really cool pictures standing on top of cars. We did sort of a deep dive on why exactly people lit the

Waymo's on fire. There was a lot of opinions about that in the kind of internet ecosystem. Oh, they did it because of Big Tech or, oh, they did it because Big Tech is in bed with Trump, which is debatable. And in reality, like from what I could find, the people engaging the most with the fires were doing it to take really cool TikTok videos and get a lot of likes and clicks and clout. And there was even competitive dynamics between people trying to take photos. And then that, to George's point, goes out into this ether where how we make sense of that is fractured very much along political lines. They're the people they should be arresting.

Like if they're like actual professional agitators going out there and like competing for TikTok likes by like causing damage. If these I mean, it's presumably easy to track someone down who's doing that, right? Because then they're going to post it on their TikTok. Like this was me. Look how cool I am. From what we heard during that particular moment, there was not much of a police presence, at least by the LAPD.

So you have this kind of opportunity in that context to do whatever you want. And I don't think that the people probably trying to get the best TikTok out of the situation are the ones that are the most passionate about immigration policy, just to wager a guess. Don't you think we should weigh the entertainment value against the cost of the vandalism? Right? Like, let's say that vandalism costs $300,000, right? If the total entertainment value, and we can measure that in terms of revenue to ads, if that generated 10 million in ad revenue, come on,

the vandalism was good for the economy, right? You know, you're reminding me of right now is a watch the X-Men, but there's this parallel dimension run by this guy Mojo and Mojo's world was like a recurring sort of, it would come up again and again in the X-Men and what he would do is he would capture all of these X-Men, he would transport them to this dimension and make them fight to the death for ratings. But the whole universe, his reality was all geared towards getting better ratings and in way, what you're saying is kind of like perfect for this current president that we have, who comes from the world of reality television and has always cared deeply about ratings,

which is probably where his instincts were sort of naturally drawing him to this. He knows that this is where the eyeballs are going to be. People care about this. And now you have live political theater. I want to just introduce one. There's a question of immigration, you know, were they really protesting about this thing? Does it really matter? Is it just, you know, entertainment? I have my opinions on that. I think it's sort of like you follow the laws and you don't break them and you don't come here and we can't have illegal immigration and if you don't have a border you don't have a country and I don't mind seeing the deportations, frankly.

But what I think is very interesting is when you have this many immigrants in America, you start to see a new kind of identity form. We see this in Southern California with the Mexican immigrants, where about 50% of that city is now Latino. You have about close to a million illegal immigrants in Los Angeles,

a million in a population of 10 million, 500,000 of whom are Mexican. And so I started wondering, like, when I saw the Mexican flag being waved, in a sense, like, are they even wrong? Like, it like, it was sort of this really offensive thing to see this idea of this is America, this is Mexico, actually, and this is it's kind of what it reads like. But then it's like, is that not true? Is LA not, in a sense, increasingly a Mexican city inside of America? And that comes with an entire new, I would say, origin myth. So Katy Perry enters the chat.

This would have been June 10th, I believe, or the night of June 9th, I think. Katy Perry writes to her two, I think she has 200 million followers on Instagram. Founded by Mexican settlers in 1781, this was once Mexican land, and the people being targeted today are often descendants of those who have lived here for generations, or who came seeking safety, work, and dignity. To me, that's incredible.

None of that is true. In 1781, there was no such thing as a Mexican settler because there was no such thing as Mexico. What she's talking about is Spanish. Those were Spanish settlers. There was a mix of mostly sort of Europeans, Spaniards, and also Mestizo, which are like a mix of indigenous Central Americans and Spanish,

native indigenous Spanish people, who had settled in Los Angeles because Spain was a colonial empire. The question I have now as a descendant of conquistadors is like, is West Hollywood mine by sort of blood right? Is that the new leftist position? That's the first question I have. And then the next one I have is what happens

to a country with multiple origin myths. But Liv, I don't know if you followed this at all. Did you think it was funny, interesting? For me, this is the most interesting thing about the entire riot, which I should note is escalating. They're sort of growing and it might be a much bigger thing. I think it probably will be a bigger thing over the weekend. But for now, this is the thing

that I find the most fascinating. I mean, I don't know much about Californian history, Mexican history, and so on. So I can't really comment on that and the accuracy of any of that. I think there is something to be said that if like a sufficient portion of a culture is one way, then they have a claim to that. Now at the same time, do you get to like basically rename a country or reclaim it? It's almost like sequestering a part of a city or something and claiming that it is now under its own law and so on. I mean, civilization currently hinges on that not happening in terms of like,

the current civilization we all enjoy and live in, and presumably that attracted people to that place in the first place, it was set up in such a way that you can't just suddenly rewrite a bunch of laws and say, we now own this or whatever. So but I have some sympathy to it. I don't know, I mean, I'm just like right now, I'm going through my own kind of weird period of mourning. I'm about to go back to the UK, which is obviously my homeland. And I've been following what's going on there

with the immigration crisis and people I know who live in London who are just like, I don't know my city anymore. Like I used to walk down Oxford Street and all these classic places and it had this feel of Britishness and now it feels in some ways like a third world country. And I mean, how do I even describe this without like you get immediately labeled racist and so on. But it's like a majority. When I was in Hyde Park last year, I was walking through it and I was

I was in Hyde Park last year. I was walking through it and I was one, I'd say maybe two, one in five to one in 10 people were white British and everyone else was Muslim. The vast majority of women I walked past were wearing either a burqa or one of the things. And it was extremely unsettling because it's like, I don't know, it's just a very different culture and their birth rate is at three, whereas the otherwise the British birth rate is at 1.6.

So that is declining. The Islamic birth rate is still increasing, still growing, and there's additional immigration coming in all the time. So where is this going to be in 50 years time? It's, the Britain I knew that I grew up in, the English culture is dying. And I don't know how to feel about it, but I, well, I do know how I feel about it.

I feel extremely sad and slightly helpless, frankly. And yeah, it's rough. And at the same time, I do believe in like, you know, I want to like, I've tried to be a live and let live clearly a cultural encroachment in the UK. And it's, I would say, I've said this before on this podcast, it seems much worse than even what we have in America. Like you could talk about a city like LA becoming mostly Mexican or something is like, okay, like let's say it was Mexican. Suddenly LA is just a Mexican city.

Mexico's not that bad. Culturally it's very city. Mexico's not that bad. Culturally it's very aligned. It's Christian. It's like women are treated pretty equally. It's night and day compared to like the Western Islam. Yeah. It's like you have people now, I guess, with the idea that Los Angeles was founded by, I don't know, what is it? Like the Padres Fundaritos, so I don't know how to say it in Spanish. The founding fathers, whatever that is. That kind of frames them today as like Palestinian,

as if Mexicans have been, you know, in occupied territory for the last 200 years, just like sending messages to their family across the border by pigeon and then by wire and then by phone, waiting for their day that they could take over. Even if that all were true, their culture would still be relatively, it would still be similar.

Like it would still be, you have a common history despite what they want to tell you in Europe. You have a common language in the Latin roots at least. And it's like a sort of understandable alphabet. You have a common faith. A lot of Americans now are Catholic. It's just like very much right there. And you have a shared border and heritage for a long time,

but Islam is a different culture completely. It is a non-Western culture. It is, well, we used to talk about the East, like that is the shit that was coming and we were scared of. Yeah, it's super different. And probably a problem here as well, long-term. I do think in the case of the waving of the Mexican flags, I understand why people took

that as basically a sign that people were putting Mexico first in terms of their identity. Maybe it signaled an unwillingness to assimilate here. I don't know if I believe that that's what that means. I found one video of a person who he was waving a Mexican flag. His parents were from Mexico. He himself was born in the US and he served in the military as a Marine for several years. He said he was proud to serve. I think that for at least some people, the Mexican flag was meant to invoke a sense of visibility or pride in an environment where or pride in an environment where the expectation might be to hide or be afraid? I just, I have, I can't, it really makes me so mad.

I prefer George's explanation of like, this is literally all just fake, to me is it makes me happier. I'm like, okay. But to actually then the idea that there's any positive reading of it, I had one grandparent growing up. They all died except one. And the one that was alive when I was a kid was,

she was from Spain. She was the only immigrant out of the four of them. She was a Spanish immigrant. Her family brought her here in the Spanish civil war. She was 10 years old. And I growing up only knowing her, I did not know what the Spanish flag looked like until, I don't know, I was a teenager and I opened a book, maybe younger,

probably like, I don't know, probably 10 or 11. I went to the library and I was like, curious about my Spanish heritage. And I looked it up and I saw it and I was like, oh, there it is. It was not a part of my reality. My grandma taught me that I was an American. She was an American. She told me one story once about she had a nephew or something come over from Spain and to stay with her for a while. And she was talking to how great Spain was and how backwards America was and whatnot. She was like, go to fuck home. This is America. If you don't like it, leave. Like you're an American now. You had to burn the ships when you came over as an immigrant in the 20th century and become a part of the people that were here.

I don't want to see your flag. I don't want to see a foreign flag in this country. And I don't want to hear about your Mexican heritage. Like this does not work. America as a concept will not work unless we come together and have one culture. Like we have to agree that the most important thing here is that we're all Americans.

And if only some of us are doing that and some of us are not, that's going to always be a recipe for conflict. And if none of us are doing it, I don't know how this, how we maintain a country period. Like I don't know how that even lasts. Like we are very quickly entering the world of snow crash, which is kind of going to be where we're going to go in a second, unless anyone has last thoughts on this one, because I want to talk about the burning waymos and the future of techno fascism. Can I ask a follow up question for you? Yes.

I feel like part of why this gets you going is the stakes, like what you think the stakes are. Could you talk a little bit more about that? It's kind of what I just said. I think that if there is no path towards assimilation into a single American culture or let's say a dominant American culture with a bunch of subcultures, there always have been subcultures, there always will, but sort of like roughly like a dominant sense of national identity, like what America is, what the sort of ground floor rules are, where the country came from, not even just a common history, I'm talking like a common understanding of history, like a common

belief that like the country began when the founding fathers like built a bunch of shit and set down the concept and fought the war and wrote the constitution. Like if you don't believe that's what the country is, then we're not a country. Like the period, like this dissolves, the whole thing ends, which we kind of all think is impossible because it seems crazy to think that America could end or the Western world could end. But like things have changed forever, for thousands of years, the history has changed. That is the, the, that is the only guaranteed thing is that things will change. And if things are changing in such a way as where there's a totally fragmented country, where it's like, you have regions of the country that are basically

different, that's bad. Like that to me is dystopia. You'll find this in every single manifesto of every racist shooter, everywhere. Uh, demography demographics or destiny. That's true. Yeah. Right. So simply if the birth rate is of the, you know, it's just you can ask the question of how people get their political opinions and this Americaism political opinion is inherited through birth. If these people are reproducing

one or two, you know, total fertility rate, then yeah, I mean, demographics are destiny. So either you fix the demographics or you get rid of democracy. That's the choice. I like that's the choice we're going to be faced with. Well, that's the choice. I don't think that, I don't know. Convert people. You're going to convert people. You're going to change their minds. No, no, no. I think that's for sure the case in the UK because I don't really see a lot of love for democracy in across the Muslim world. I think in America, it might last a little longer. Like, I don't know.

This is getting into crazy territory, but I mean, the amount of immigration we've seen is crazy. Like the rapid shift of culture is pretty crazy. To see fires in Los Angeles and people waving foreign flags and people defending that is to me quite crazy. And it brings me really to the question of this burning Waymo for the five burning Waymos.

But what is increasingly like this interesting symbol of so many things, the future of technology, it's a symbol in the tech industry, I would say the self-driving car. It's a symbol of class rage and warfare that is bipartisan. You see people on both the left and the right who see this as a really dangerous thing, the idea of a self-driving car, a truck in the case of there was an interview with Tucker Carlson or a debate between Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro where Tucker Carlson was like,

of course I want to ban self-driving trucks. Why would I not? In this case, there's the immigrant dynamic of that, whatever that is. Blake just wrote a piece on that and I'm going to let you go off in a second. But I would say it's interesting that that has become the mascot of the LA riots, is the burning Waymo. Because a future where we are not a single culture, which is we all seem sort of, I think, weirdly in agreement that like that seems to be where this is headed. The future that I see is the sort of South African future of a future where it's if you don't trust your neighbors, you're looking at a future of more personal security. You're looking at a future of gated communities. You're looking at a future of any kind of technology that helps insulate you from other people. So what is the self-driving car,

the Waymo, but like a bubble that protects you from everybody else? You're not even talking to a driver anymore. And that is suddenly now looking like a world of sort of parallel societies within parallels. Like it's a technological, it is a technological solution that creates parallel societies within a world that's already fragmented culturally. So another world, so it's like parallels within parallels. I think that kind of is possibly the future. It's like, are we entering a world of gated communities

and armed Waymo's basically is what I'm asking. The best way to predict the future is to look at the past and extrapolate. So if you burn two Waymo's, is this going to affect Waymo as a company? How many Waymo's would you have to burn? Five Waymo's. OK, so how many Waymo's would you have to burn to impact Waymo? Right. That's the question. And that's the question these protesters should be asking. If any of you guys are watching. You won.

One Waymo's going to see. Earned to be like, I'm done. How do you not understand? So George, this is a meme. A meme was just created. One burning Waymo with people happily waving flags in front of it now makes the entire fleet unsafe. You're going to see burning Waymo's for the next 10 years. You're going to see this. Well, I mean, like if I was trying to deploy,

you know, figure out which city am I deploying Waymo next to and be like, well, which is the which is the most politically neutral city or which city doesn't have a left leaning population because that seems to be who the last riots, you know, the last group of people who burnt them down. It's definitely going to be affecting their policy. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the meetings right now of deciding like where because they just saw the footage of them pulling, you know, driving all the way most out of LA. So they're taking them somewhere else. They're like, well, fuck it. We don't want them in LA anymore. So where are they going to take them? I mean, I could see a market for them opening up in like middle America, actually, where if they

become a political symbol of like, leftist destruction, then maybe middle America is like we want them actually. It's real hard to get around. I want them like, I want one on my farm taking me from A to B. Who knows? I'm sure there'll be a market opportunity to open up, but no, I didn't get absolutely affected. It's white, white, for way most. Exactly. And they were even white. They were white. They are white.

I try not to have sympathy for robots, but I actually felt like a deep sadness for them. I want to talk about that in a second, but Blake, I know you have a point. Then I want to talk about the anthropomorphic Waymo thing that's happening. Well, it's interesting. This isn't the first time that Waymos have been set on fire. It happened in February in San Francisco. It was only one car I believe but the car was just navigating a celebration of the lunar new year or something and

members of the crowd Spontaneously decided to destroy it. There was graffiti bashed in the windows threw in a firework Maybe they didn't know that was Anyway, it totally burned to the ground. And at the time, Waymo said in statements to the press, the car was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. This is kind of a one-off thing. But that's clearly not the case. They've offered similar language actually in coverage of the LA riots. So maybe they understand more than they're sharing, but I think you're totally right. Waymo's become something that's way beyond Waymo. These cars are not just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

They're being hunted. This is as, you know, we are in the beginning of the transition period between where the majority of vehicles on the road are human driven to where the majority will be self driven. At some point we will go through that flippening, right? But because we're in the early stages, they are still a novelty. And if you have a group of agitators looking to cause mayhem who are probably in parts, I think that's probably a little bit of just like the fact

that they went for that as a thing to damage, although maybe at the same time, this is to George's point, we're just being shown the way most that's the most interesting thing, right? That for the algorithm to boost, like there was a bunch of like mom and pop stores that were burned down foot locker, all of these like stores. I feel like I get fingers blown off, which I was surprised. Right, like horrible shit and like all these stores completely wrecked, people who now have lost their livelihoods and so on. We don't hear about that because it's not sensational. And so it's, you know, we're focusing on the Waymo because as George pointed out,

that's what the algorithm wants us to, it is the most objectively interesting because it's a novel thing. It's a novel technology. It's it sets off some kind of weird protectionism, maybe I don't know. But I think we're just going to trend towards self driving cars anyway, and it's they're soon not going to be novel anymore. And so they're not going to be the thing that's being picked on. Yeah, but for now, I mean, first of all, interesting that the computer would want us to focus on violence against computers. And I'll just set that aside for a second, something to think about at night.

But for now, they certainly represent something. It seems like what does Waymo mean? It has this interesting, you know, why is it? You think it's just novelty, but I just, it reminds me of the Google bus protesters like 10 or 15 years ago in tech, when you would have these commuter buses that were stopped by angry mobs of people and they would lump it together with all sorts of stupid. It was a symbol of power. The way Mo is now also a symbol of the tech bro who is himself a symbol of a political power because of the sort of like Elon Musk and Donald Trump Alliance. Now, what does Elon Musk have to do with Waymo? Nothing but what is the average? What is the average crazy person in LA with a flame thrower know about that? Like I don't think he sees a distinction between Google and Elon Musk, even though they probably hate each other.

Can I add a little bit of a wrinkle? Just that we, we interviewed this citizen journalist guy, Kim Higbee, who was there and a couple of others actually. And it seemed like part of what happened is other cars with real human drivers were avoiding the area entirely because they saw a bunch of chaos and knew better. I do think part of what happened is that the cars were ordered on the app because there weren't other cars around to burn. And in that sense, going back to this point about chaos and opportunists, Mike,

you've, you've talked in the past about, are people looking for an excuse to be violent? And I do think that the Waymo represented that we heard that, uh, various things were shouted as the Way most were being burned including fuck Waymo and also the company can just file an insurance claim so there's this idea of there's no owner or the owners don't matter the owner so big that it doesn't matter and so on so I feel like you're it's a lot of things at once. It's the kind of opposition to the man and tech in the way you're saying. We know that just from the graffiti that was plastered all over the way most, but it's also this kind of animalistic tension looking for a great TikTok. No other cars are around.

That's obviously, we're sort of always like, one crisis away from going primitive again, which we all saw in 2020, like how quick people were to just descend into the like, I'm gonna fucking, I'm gonna break something, I'm gonna steal something, it's me against the world. It's very, civilization takes a lot of energy to maintain and not just like physically, but psychically.

The idea of civilization collapses when things get a little bit wild and spooky. And that's what we saw to a certain extent. There are people who are sort of waiting to prey on these moments, I think. And you can kind of feel, I was watching a bunch of clips this morning, the protests slash riots.

I think you can clearly just call them riots. There are people in Portland last night trying to light a federal building on fire. Like that is not a protest. I mean, it's kind of protest, but it's like that qualifies as riot to me personally. We are seeing this shit now. It's like Portland. I saw similar mobs in Seattle, letting shit on fire outside of the federal building and

trying to block it, setting up tents, emaciated sort of drug addict looking guy shouting Allah Akbar. It's like New York City where they're really not fucking around in New York. Like they are arresting people left and right. And they're saying like, we're not doing that this year. They want that 2020 shit. And you could see this sort of unnatural kind of like trying to force the like BLM language into the immigration thing, which is just inherently so not a good fit.

Like black Americans frustrated about black. However, you feel about them They're black. They're they're black, but they're American like they are they are more American or at least longer than most of us Like we're talking about people who have descended from Americans 400 years ago And that issue is just like so different than someone who just got here and is now angry about something And that issue is just like so different than someone who just got here and is now angry about something which the average person, including the average black person, does not give a shit about, as we saw in Chicago during the Biden-Trump election, where this like constantly came up, this idea of, you know, immigration as an issue that actually brought black Americans closer to the right. So, I don't know, I think that's not going to work, but you can sort of feel people really wanting that. And I think that is because they do want there's like a knee jerk sort of desire to to excuse violence. They want to break stuff. It's just like agents of chaos.

Yeah. Getting back to the question about just like what to do about the way, most I really hope we don't resort to having to arm the way most like you suggested, Solana, because I remember like doing like trips to Mexico as a kid and you'd see like a military truck drive by with like dudes carrying AK-47s in the back and it was just like a reminder of like, oh I'm in a third world country now and I would hate to feel that feeling in like Santa Monica. So hopefully we can find a solution that's not that. The police will rob you. That's crazy. That is straight up, like, I know multiple people who have been robbed by the police in what is the part,

the Yucatan area. So it's like Cancun down to Tulum. And that's one of the better parts of the whole country. So they have to bring in the military with masks because they don't want the cartels to know who they are because the cartels will go and find their family and kill them. Like it is a, yeah, it's a different place.

But on the question of arming the waymos, I mean, is there a path here? How hard would that be to do? What does that look like? What about those guns that blow bubbles? No, no, no, no. Rubber bullets at least. George, how do we get there?

The simpler thing to think about is just to ask what's happened in situations like this before. I think Detroit is a good example. So people think it's the auto industry collapse that wrecked Detroit. It was actually two race riots. After the second one, all the people with money were just like, I'm done with this, you guys.

So I think the same thing will happen here. I think if there's a city that shows persistent opposition to the Waymos, the Waymos will go somewhere else. Like an actual straight up, we are really talking about a white flight right now. Yeah, and you just have to talk about the economics of arming the Waymos. Is it really worth it to build armed robots

to get $7.86 for a ride in LA? Probably not. But what happens when LA collapse is, if we're talking about a world in which LA is so violent that the way most have to straight up leave, that implies a lot of other things about LA to me that says that city's not going to last. And then all of those people are gonna flood

the surrounding areas. Like, aren't we gonna have to arm the way most at some point? I'm moving to Asia. I don't know. I think this is all cooked. Man. to arm the Waymos at some point. I'm moving to Asia. I don't know. I think this is all cooked. Why is Asia safer? You know, civilization only lasts so long and then yeah, you run out of that Thymos and yeah, you just got to surf to the next wave, you know? Try to cling on to the old way,

but you can move on. The most realistic solution to me for Waymo maybe looks like monitoring unrest and just shutting down the app or the service when there's protests, because now we can pretty much bank on protests devolving into violent chaos targeting. Well, we'll see. I personally think that way most will continue to be targeted in other cities that the protests are moving to. If I'm a Waymo, where do I want to be? I want to be in the place I can pull in the most

money. If I got to spend extra on security or monitoring, you got to factor that into your bottom line. Waymos are pure agents of capitalism. Well in South Africa, if you armed the Waymo, you would be able to command a lot more capital. It's not safe, right? So maybe that's the incentive. If the whole country falls apart, sure. Well, I think that it might. That was my original thesis. Like it seems to me that the country is unwinding.

And if that's the case and the future is gated, then there is a lot of money to be made. I don't think that it's just going to end like we all descend into just like primitive times. I think it's like the rule of law sort of collapses. You can no longer count on the police to protect you. And once you can, once people really believe, even if it's not even true,

if people just truly believe that the police can't protect you, then suddenly there is a huge economic incentive to create something that seems very safe. Right. You're already seeing private firefighting, right? And people building that and- Yes. Gated communities getting security and they'll be beefing them up. And yeah, unfortunately, it seems like that's the trend. And I'll be paying one fifth of the price for a ride in Asia because in Asia, you don't that stuff Sure, yeah, but it's been on all this security

Well, yeah, you just got to keep going to where civilization still exists. Maybe it's Mars. Maybe it's Jupiter Where in Asia? Hong Kong are you serious? What? You're gonna be fine until there's a famine in China and then you're getting fucking cannibalized. It's it'll be chaos. I trust the leadership of Xi Jinping for there not to be a famine in China. Oh my God.

Did he accidentally bring a spy on to the pot? I think he might have. I mean, he's not a very good one because he's not he's not subtle. Yeah, he's wearing the Xi Jinping shirt or something. I'm just saying, who do you trust more? Who do you trust more? I guess, am I, I do want to back up for a second and just wonder, I mean, this is a kind of new idea

for me that I've been thinking a lot about. Am I off base possibly? Like are things maybe just way better than they seem? Is it just like, we're entering some growing pains and actually things are going to kind of normalize and there's not going to be an increase of violence. If the wealth gap is so apparent in America and also the perception of it is amplified

through things like social media. And I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of prior to like complete civilization or breakdown, there will be some kind of attempt of like, let's shut down social media or something like that. Because I'm very agnostic on whether social media is a net benefit or net harm. I'm currently leaning more net harm. But one of the ways you stop a meme from spreading is to stop the medium through which it spreads. And I would not be surprised

if at some point the Trump government takes like really strong actions to stop when a particularly vicious meme arises or like some kind of violence is spreading. Has this ever happened in the past? Have we ever shut down a new medium of communication because the ruling class didn't like what people are saying on it Oh Happened in some way like the radio, you know Well radio waves, I guess I kind of hard to shut down But I mean there's always a seeking of control of these things. Yeah, I mean North Korea has done it right? Well

we can live in North Korea, it's not where I'm moving but Not that Asian country my My point is, my point is, if you like, sure, I'm sure, I'm sure the Roman Catholics wanted to shut down the printing press so that they couldn't keep spreading the Bibles or whatever, but you didn't shut it down, right? I'm sure people have wanted to shut down radio, television, all historically, and maybe locally, but globally, trend only goes one way. I feel like you're right, Solana, that the gated vibes will continue to worsen. This is already true in our online existence.

People are already living in gated communities online. They don't intake a shred of information from other ideologies from other pockets of ideologies, from people who don't look sound, act like them want what they want. So maybe part of what's happening now is that's just translating more to the physical reality Or will I love that the internet has transitioned from a high trust society to a low trust society and that's why it sucks Yeah, yes Yes, how do we protect reality from turning into that? How do you protect America?

Well, I think that is reality now. Arm the way, Mo. But I thought this, so on the, we're talking about blue sky, let's be honest. And then I think to a also considerable degree Twitter, those are places where people don't even make that choice anymore. They're sort of algorithmically quarantined

based on their interests, which is really wild and a very just obvious tell into how we react in these environments. But then in the real world, like I was watching, there have been a whole string of people online talking about, not online, I'm sorry, a whole string of people on CNN, MSNBC, talking about the founding of Los Angeles as Mexican and really playing into this idea that Mexicans are not illegal immigrants. In fact, they're not even immigrants. The border crossed them is what they're saying.

This is historically not true. You had like 75,000 mostly Spaniards back when this happened. They became American citizens and have been for 200 years. But that idea being just not, it's not just crazy people online or dumb celebrities with 200 million followers. That is a, it is like a new, I don't know how to bridge that gap.

That is like they're getting their information online. They're then taking it to the real world and they're gonna be voting on it. Like, I don't think that you're gonna see a major democratic president, a presidential candidate, certainly not a candidate for governor in something like California, who has a shot at winning, go after that idea and be like, no, no, no, that's, that's not really true. That's just we're different people now. And, and we're kind of What's AOC saying about it? Because I feel like she's kind of to me, she's like,

she has previously said, AOC has previously talked about the idea that Mexicans were actually indigenous Americans. And that was maybe, maybe that was the beginning of the meme, I'm not sure. It wasn't quite in this construction. She didn't go all the way in on the LA founding story, but she's already kind of hinted at that, which is kind of nuts because we have all of these baked in cultural and political advantages

for native Americans in this country that are really for like the Apache and shit. We have very small population, but the country is non-trivially Latino now. And Latinos, generally speaking, are a mix of like European and Indigenous American ancestry. So if you suddenly have now a group of what, 20% of Americans even who think they have some kind of Indigenous claim to the country and they have systemic advantages to apply for and the Democrats are not willing to challenge that in any way, that's another recipe for disaster. That is like really, really, really bad.

I think that's probably the most interesting thing about all this again for me is how the Mexican identity is changing in America to become more historically American. Like as they become more dominant in American politics, their sense of self has changed considerably and in a way that's gonna affect, I think, the whole country. I mean, you look at this and you have several choices, but it has to be one of these things.

You can sit here and say, oh, I'm technically correct, but this doesn't matter. Either we change these people's minds. We kick these people out, or we end democracy. And it has to be one of those three things. Well, how why do we have to end democracy? Take unpack that one a little bit more? Why can't we just persist in the state of like, politicians appealing to different groups completely of

Gavin Newsom talking about whatever bullshit in Spanish as well as English. Like, why can't it just kind of persist like that? What could, but again, demographics are destiny, right? Are these numbers going up or are these numbers, how are the demographics changing? Well, but Mexico has a democracy. It's a shitty one, but it is a democracy. It's not like they're inherently anti-democratic. No, but you're saying some stuff like, well, there's a real truth

to how California was founded and, you know, it wasn't actually historically Mexico. And when the truth, I think we're going to totally disagree, but that doesn't have anything to do with dissolving democracy. Like, I think that probably democracy will persist in a state where people are just have nothing in common. And so every election is. So what if the majority of the voters say, no, actually California historically was Mexico or whatever.

What are you gonna do about that? But what does that mean other than like, all that means is like, it's a more, that's like a less pleasant existence for me, but I don't think it ends, probably in some way, it seems not healthy for democracy to have a bunch of people voting democratically who don't agree that the other has a claim to exist.

We're really, it's funny, cause they're kind of trying to say this is like Palestine. That is the course that we're on. We're on a course to this world where like, it doesn't work. Like both sides are not just disagreeing politically. They don't agree that the other has a right to exist. And I think we're very, to be clear, I think we're very far away from that

right now. We're, I think we're quite far away from, uh, uh, uh, Israel Palestine thing, but, um, the only solution to the Israel Palestine fate is some kind of monoculture. And I don't know how you do that in the age of the internet. Okay. So you're going to change these people's minds. The solution to Israel, Palestine is going to change their minds. No, that's fucked. I don't know. I'm not trying to solve the same problem. No idea. Yeah, zero idea about the Middle East. Well, the interesting thing as well, though, is that you mentioned it's like, MSNBC, CNN, and so

on that are like, pumping out this meme, right and getting behind it. Why? That's the interesting, like, why would native, well, okay, let's not use the word native Americans, but original, well, the current Americans who are, okay, left leaning, but the establishment want this. I have a, I know, I really think I know this. And it's because they don't want, they're morally against the deportation, period. It doesn't matter that it's legal.

They think it's abhorrent. It doesn't matter that there are 20 million people. The scale of it doesn't matter to them. They're like, this is just totally wrong, but the law is not on their side and culture is not on their side. The average American is supporting deportation. What do you do? I think that you're reaching for things to complicate this,

maybe not even rationally, but emotionally, you feel like you need rhetorical ammunition. And the idea that this is not legitimate, the idea of deportation is not legitimate because these people are actually more American than Americans is a very, I think it's a powerful idea. And it's a really useful idea. And I think that useful ideas in this,

maybe all information ecosystems, but certainly this one where ideas spread rapidly and grow and kind of evolve in real time based on what works and what doesn't. I think that's why this idea is flourishing. I think it's gonna keep, you're gonna see it again and again and again. I think we're gonna see it this weekend.

And the way it ties in also with like the, what is it from LA to Gaza, Globalize the Empty Fata, right, this coalition. Mexico to Gaza! Globalize the Empty Fata! Globalize the Empty Fata! Globalize the Empty Fata! Globalize the Empty Fata!

The deeper philosophy that's behind that even more, that's coming from the left, is this idea that if you're weak, you are correct. Weak is right. Weak is morally the good guy every time. And that's their simplicity. It's like, are you the underdog? Okay, then you must be the good guy. And that's why this is so fucked.

Because it's like, okay, sometimes it's true, but sometimes it's true. They're like actually very independent things. Your relative when weakness or strength is independent of whether you're a good or a bad guy. Sometimes it's anti correlated, but it's like, a democracy, the majority is right. So we're gonna go with that. Right. What is the majority?

No, but which one's anti democracy, right? Like, what's the birthright in Palestine? What's the birthrate in Israel? Right? Like these are pretty high. Israel is really high. Israel might be the highest. I think for like a modern nation, yeah. No, I think Israel is higher than Palestine.

The Hasidic Jews. It's not. It's definitely not. Well, but then you just see who wins these things. If you continue democracy, you just have to look at who has higher fertility rate and then extrapolate out unless something changes Well, here's the really messed up thing though Is you just said it when like who is going to win and that means already we have internalized this sense of antagonism within this this idea is not like oh

Democracy is how the best way for a group of people to figure out just what to do people What we're framing it as is like, this is war, this is war between people. And that's really bad. That's like really, really, really unhealthy. And I think it's because we grew up in a relatively stable democracy, we have this idea that it's always gonna be

relatively stable and that is just not true. I think that these ideas that are circulating freely, calmly around right now are really radical and a huge departure from where we all came from in like coming up in the eight the 90s I think or 2000s for maybe some Riley over here. Like that is an alien concept really and not tenable like that's not gonna work. If you're interested in a monoculture might I suggest Asia? Yeah like I mean the China like the Han Chinese thing it is true man they do and even Japan I mean their answer is just like there will be no other culture like like very friendly they're

very friendly like Oh tourists. Yes Love Japan. It's time to go now. Here's the door. I hope you go. You'll never ever ever be Japanese That's changing a bit though because they're a westernized country and the Western idea is super Anglo and the Anglos are just I think very unique in there This is maybe a really controversial thing to say, but I know that I'm right. The Anglos are just, I think, very unique in their, this is maybe a really controversial thing to say, but I know that I'm right. The Anglos are uniquely open people. They're like super open to not just immigration,

but to exploration, to like culture evolves rapidly, is like a very open, like I said, open culture that I think is- Look what we've happened to London. Yay. I feel like some people will listen to this episode and think that we're saying immigrants are bad. Like more immigrants equals democracy ends

and the cultural fabric ends, which feels like an inherently dangerous idea to me and centered in a white kind of a vibe. White? I'm saying you just become who you are. Like, I don't think that America is magic and people just become American in the numbers of like 50 million people march over here.

I think that we'll become whatever culture it is. And so I think the UK is becoming more Islamic and I think America is becoming more Latin. And I don't think, is that controversial? What I'm trying to nail down is the, why is it bad to change? I'm extremely pro-immigration, but you have to make money. You have to bring in people who produce more than they consume.

Let's get rich. America is an economic zone. pro-immigration, but you have to make money. You have to bring in people who produce more than they consume. Let's get rich. America is an economic zone. Yes, exactly that. Right. Forget the culture, monoculture, whatever. Let's just be rich. And the thing is, is that unfortunately, illegal immigrants are generally speaking, correlated with paying very low.

You know, they are the lower end of the tax contributions. Sounds like we need immigrants who are gonna pay a lot of taxes, I like that. Fix the national debt, love it. Well, especially as we're talking about autonomous labor, it's kind of crazy. The other crazy thing about the Bernie way most to me is like, in the context of an immigration thing,

is we're talking about mostly low skilled immigrants at a time when low skilled labor seems endangered. I mean, most labor maybe seems endangered. White collar labor also seems endangered. So I don't even know. This is why the H1B thing also kind of blows my mind. We're talking about expanding H1B at the exact same moment we're having a conversation about replacing most engineers with AI. And it's like, well, that doesn't make any kind of rational sense. So what are we really saying at that point? Well, why is mass migration, which is what we're talking about here

in the millions and millions, tens of millions, literally 20 million illegal alone. We're not even talking about regular immigration in Canada, we're close to a third of the population is foreign born. Why is that inherently good? Like what is inherently like the question of, is it bad or not?

Let's just table it. If you don't have an actual reason, for example, is that inherently good? Like what is inherently, like the question of, is it bad or not? Let's just table it. If you don't have an actual reason, for example, I don't need any engineers, so why are we bringing them over here? What is the inherent good of a foreigner coming here and living here or let's 20 million of them? And I don't think there's an inherent good.

And I don't even know that someone would argue that. I think they would feel embarrassed to argue something like that. So I think that a lot of people are sort of dancing around maybe what they want. Well, I would actually that so the steel man on the other side is like, generally speaking, each human can do shit, right? Humans can build stuff, they can make things they can, you know, they'll have babies. Humans in general are economic production machines in some way.

And so having more humans is generally good, but it depends on whether those humans are fitting into the existing system, in the existing economic system. If they are, you know, and some are more than others just because of culture or for whatever reason. I think for progressives, it's not a, is this better for the country thing?

It's a moral issue. People who are hurt seeking asylum, thumbs up. I think for right leaning people, it's about is it better for the country? Yes. And so they're different. They're different debates. They're coming from a different place. I see right wing people being just as moral about this as left-wing people.

I think both sides are equally moral and ridiculous. Yes. But it's that picture of where people focus their empathy. Have you seen that? Where right-wing people generally, their empathy is centered on people like very close to them and left-wing people tend to externalize the empathy. No, you're saying no. No, no, no, no, no. This is one of my biggest bug bears. That fucking heat map.

I know the thing is completely misunderstood and taken out of context. That's correct. So I'm going to go with it. But listen, it's so taken out of context. All it shows, those two heat maps are the outer edges of people's circles of empathy. They're not saying that, oh, if you therefore, you know, you care about plants or animals, that you don't care about your family.

It's just saying that your moral sphere of things that you do care about go out further. Typically, liberals have a slightly broader moral sphere than than conservatives. Now it's true that somewhat like I do think it's not like perfectly abundant, like your morality, if you care so much about rocks that that means, you know, maybe we don't have infinite, but it's it's it because it's absurd to like say is that the way that heat map is done, you should in it. Rocks? empathy for rocks? No one is saying that. No, this is the-

It's got a smiley face on it. You have empathy for Waymo. I am Chamath. Rocks are below my line. They're below everyone's line. Don't worry. But the point is that there were right wing people saying like, oh, see, this is why liberals are stupid. They care about rocks. They say no one cares about rocks. But that heat map is completely misunderstood. I wrote a long ranty tweet about it. You put Google eyes on a rock.

People have famously cared about rocks. I will care about it. You were caring about the waymos. I do think that we should. We're running out of time here. We have one more topic. First, an ad read. Matt, for time, I think we're just going to cut to my pre-recorded ad read, which came out really well. Thank you Adquick. Adquick. Ah, we love you. Sigh of angels. You might have seen our Moonshubby estate billboard on Nasdaq and thought, how'd you pull that off?

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advertising. Also, if you're busy, and you are, they just launched AdQuick Go, a fully self-serve tool for fast-moving teams. No calls, no back and forth, just drop in your creative and go live in minutes. If your messages deserve more than just another scroll-by post, make it larger than life with AdQuick. Sigh of angels. Thank you, AdQuick, Siam Angels. Thank you AdQuick. We gotta move, we can come back to this topic, we can draw on it, whatever you want,

but I do wanna kind of introduce a new topic, it's gonna be for time, our final topic, Greta watch, Riley, haven't heard from you in a second, sorry, we all talk a lot, no one more than me, take it away. Yeah, this is related to our discussion about the Intifada and colonialism and all that stuff. So yeah, Greta Thunberg, her grand voyage came to an end in an anticlimactic fashion that Israeli Navy intercepted her flotilla, which is a word I hope we start saying more. Flotilla is fun. In the Mediterranean on Monday, they have

since sent her back to Sweden via airplane. There's no word yet on the carbon impact of that flight. But Greta, in a viral video, she claimed that she was actually kidnapped by the Israeli Navy, which is what led to her nautical protests coming to an end. The Israel Foreign Ministry, for their part, said that all the passengers of the, they called it a selfie yacht, are safe and unharmed. They were provided with sandwiches and water. The show is over. You had people on X pointing out that Greta might be the first kidnapping victim in history where her kidnappers only demand is that she leave.

And Trump described her predicament as only he can. The president said, she's a strange person. She's a young, angry person. Go ahead, Bush. Do you have a message for Greta Thunberg? And did she come up on your call with the prime minister today? Well, she's a strange person. She's a young, angry person.

I don't know if it's real anger. It's hard to believe, actually, but I saw what happened. She's certainly different. Anger management. I think she has to go to an anger management class. That's my primary recommendation for her. So, yeah, that's our that's the latest in our Greta saga. That's my primary recommendation for her.

I listen. She looked angry on the plane and I don't think she was angry because she was being deported from Israel. I think Greta is going, she's being flown back at exactly the same time as the LA riots. And so what is, it was a selfie boat, this is what Greta does, she's an activist. She's pretending to be a Palestinian freedom fighter on her way to Israel,

where she was going to pretend to be a victim of Israeli oppression or violence or brutality. And she kind of did weekly attempt these things while it was happening. But no one cared because the Americans were putting on a show. And that is just like what Americans are going to do. Like our most sociopathic deranged lunatics even, maybe especially, are way better at putting on a show than Greta Thunberg. And I think she was sitting there just like,

I didn't get attention. I did all this, I went on this fucking voyage and I got no attention. It should just completely drowned out in the news other than, you know, little bits came off. And of course we were watching. I'm a great fan of hers. Has she considered burning Waymo's? All right, give her a second.

Give her a second. I really think it's new. I'd love to see that, yeah, the mental gymnastics for that, how she carbon offsets that. Can we just talk about the absolute unfathomable psychopathy that it takes to grow and call your, like she, there was someone made like some social media posts about how

she, like these, they have been, this list of people on this boat have been kidnapped by the state of Israel and are being held as hostages, released the hostages. The psychopathy to do that when they are literally,, there've been hundreds of people who were stolen, kidnapped, tortured in many cases, murdered, little babies murdered. And we know that like the Bibas, the, I don't know how you pronounce that last name, but the Bibas family and they had like babies were taken as hostages and killed during this war

in a way that started this war. And she has the gall to go and say I'm the kid that I'm a victim like it makes my skin crawl But let's say for because from her perspective or someone who's maybe like a pro yay kind of Palestine person They're not gonna hear that and be like whatever they're like war criminals blah blah blah blah, but you could also frame that in the exact same Similar way I would say but by invoking the Palestinian war hostages. I mean, they're now prisoners on the Israel side. So if you really believe that they're out there freedom fighting, as she ostensibly does, she's now equating what she's going through with what these people are

going through. And it's just obviously not the case. I mean, it's kind of annoying to have to sit here and even be like, no, it's not true, because it's ridiculous obviously not the case like I mean it's kind of annoying to have to sit here and even be like no it's not true because it's ridiculous the idea that she she's got on a sailboat and she sailed into a war zone that was being blockaded by Israel and then the Israel said the government said we're gonna stop you if you come and she came anyway and they stopped her at the end like what are we talking about here? Do you know Bridget Fetasse? Yeah of course she was on the podcast last Like, what are we talking about here? But do you know Bridget fantasy? Yeah, of course. She was on the pod last week. Yeah, she was talking about she made an amazing

reel about how maybe Greta just really likes sailing. It's just a thing. Yes. I mean, it's very clear that she does. It is a part of her identity. As all rich white girls, you know, it's like eventually they find that sailboat and they can't help but take a selfie on it. To her credit, at least, you know, she wasn't like most of these protesters where the activism is done on like TikTok and like Blue Sky.

At least she was about that life and was like, I'm going to go within a mile of these rockets. So yeah, I think it'll, it'll get crazier though too, because my sister was a behavior therapist and for, for kids with autism and the way that works is you identify a behavior classically, but any autism, not the fake kind of quirky girl autism, but like real autism. When you are nonverbal or in some cases, not all obviously most or not. But like maybe you're younger, you're nonverbal or you have a behavior. Like, for example, you go to the bathroom in the house or something.

So she'll identify the behavior, whatever for example, you go to the bathroom in the house or something, so she'll identify the behavior, whatever it is that's problematic. And then she creates a plan of positive reinforcement for the family to sort of positively reinforce the behavior that's not that bad behavior. And that's the sort of new invoke way to handle behavior in the world of autism. So what happens eventually is when you start ignoring

what you have to do, you reward good behavior and you ignore the bad behavior. So say a kid goes to the bathroom in the house rather than being like, you know, Dustin, no, that's bad. You have to just literally pretend you don't see it. And at first it's confusing to the kid. And then a few behavior, like a few attempts in when he's not getting any attention for doing it,

rather than end the behavior, he will increase it. He'll do much, much, much more. He'll go to the bathroom all over the house. He'll start screaming. He'll throw a temper tantrum. And it becomes much harder to ignore, but you have to. And if you successfully ignore that final burst, the behavior ends. And that's called behavior extinction. And this, Greta, I feel like the next path for her has to be escalation. Like as the attention goes down, the behavior will have to get crazier. We do see this with our activists all over the place and she's gotten a lot of attention to her whole life. And once that faucet turns off, it's like, I really would not be surprised if she ends up becoming a domestic terrorist. I sort of

see that in her eyes. I really do think that's where this story ends. Solana, are you saying that it's now like you basically what you're saying is you should no longer pay attention to Greta is what I'm hearing you say. Yeah, no, I know. I'm close to you. But there's also a question of whether I'm capable of that. And I personally, that's going to be hard. What if we stop paying attention to the news entirely? What if we stop paying attention to the news entirely? Just turn the news off.

It all would stop. Yeah. This whole thing would stop. If you really want to fix all of this. Ah, but if you really want to fix all this, if we really wanted to fix what was wrong in Western society, we turn it off. Fine, let's double click. How do you do that? How do you turn the news off?

How is it possible? Stop talking about it. Morgan Freeman. No, no, no, no. You're talking about a broad social, like if you can hack every person's brain in the world and then just convince them not to care. Change starts at home.

That's not the world we live in. Change starts at home. Give me an actual way to do it. It's not going to happen. You ignoring it does not end the news. It ends the news for you personally. So are you talking about like turning the internet off? Are you talking about jailing the journalists? I mean, I'm listening. I'm talking about telling your friends and that's what I'm doing right here to ignore the news. It's all noise. It's all fake. Turn it off. Stop paying attention to it. Stop giving it space in your mind.

Can I ask, George, has there been a... When did you start being news celibate? A news cell. Gamergate? How long ago was that? That was like 10 plus years ago. Yeah, yeah. So has there been a moment in those 10 years where, I mean, how do you know what to do? How do you know anything? Like, how do you navigate?

Because he's not totally, he's not, come on, George. You know about the news. You know about topics. You're not completely on your cell. Unfortunately, some people tell me these things and I'm like, why? But you're on Twitter. You're active, how do you not see it?

Like, do you have some kind of block on your timeline so that when you go on and post, you don't see anything? I'm a recovering Twitter addict. You've been posting on Twitter? There's nothing on my Twitter now. I'm a recovering Twitter addict. There's nothing on my Twitter now. I'm a recovering Twitter addict. How? I have a problem. Tell me because I have I'm a I'm a fully in the addiction Twitter addict. How do I start? Oh, anyone who mentions anything news related, mute, mute, mute, mute, mute, all my Twitter is machine learning and

well that brings back to my original question, which you've refused to answer, which is how do we arm the Waymo? We have to ask if it's profitable. If it's less, I'm telling you, it's profitable. I'm telling you, it's probably like I want to. I think it's profitable in South Africa already, like armed armored armored transit has to already be more profitable than like you're traveling around with bodyguards, right?

So like if you can create a simpler, cheaper solution to that, I think there's already a market for it. Well, why don't we start by putting a guy in the Waymo, but he doesn't drive, he just holds an AK. That's cheaper for now. But that's, you know, is that $200,000 a year? Then we'll use an Optimus to hold the AK. Or how about a Unitree H1? You know, I'll buy them from China, give them an AK and put them in the Waymo. Yeah, the new robot. So, Well, that's a whole other topic. Let's not go down this path. I think it's a can of worms we don't need. Building a robot

army. Okay, I know you guys are generally skeptics on the idea of out of control AI, but I'm just saying, hypothetically speaking, if you build a robot army and 0.001% chance that you do have a misaligned super intelligence that a lot of people are trying to build anyway, you've given it everything it fucking needs. Forget misaligned. I bought two unitary dogs from China and put them right here in this office. China's going to invade America and we're going to pay for it. You're going to pay for it. You're going to pay for it, Barony. Are you going to buy an expensive American robot or a low-cost Chinese robot? Do you want a

$75,000 Boston Dynamics dog or a $2,000 Unitary dog? Are they listening to this conversation right now? All you're really doing is making an argument in favor of tariffs. Like, obviously there should be 7,000% tariffs on Chinese robots. No, no, the tariffs are ridiculous. There's zero reason to be allowing the import of killer Chinese robots. Like, there's not one good reason. So why don't we mass, why don't we mass immigration everybody who can make those robots and set up factories right here? Why don't we have an 18 million person Chinese thing right here in America? We don't have to do that. All we have to do, 7000% tariffs and massive government subsidies. Yeah, I'm out of here.

I'm out of here. And then you have peace out of America. Enjoy your economically protected shithole. Okay, well you're moving literally to China. You just said that you're moving to Hong Kong. You can experience tariffs today. Move to Brazil. I think we need to go easy on George since he doesn't really know anything about the news.

I know the news, but he better start learning Mandarin. I'm going to check back in in a few months. I want to see how far along you are. My friends, it has been absolutely real. That's George Hatz and Liv Borey back in the chat. Thank you guys both for coming. Riley, Blake, you had no choice but to be here. Thank you anyway.

Love you all. Touch grass this weekend. Do not go riot. It's been real.