Pivot - All Things DNC, Election Updates, and Guest Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham

Episode Date: August 23, 2024

Laura Coates joins Kara as co-host to discuss all things DNC! Top speakers, funny moments, and better vibes than the RNC. And of course, Tim Walz’s pep talk for the country. Plus, the latest on the race: RFK Jr. plans to drop out and endorse former President Trump. Then we’re joined by Friend of Pivot and Governor of New Mexico, Michelle Lujan Grisham. Watch Kara and Scott’s interviews with Congressman Maxwell Frost, and Senators Michael Bennet, Mark Kelly and Amy Klobuchar on our YouTube channel here. You can follow Laura on X at @thelauracoates. You can find Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham on threads at @govmlg. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at fizz.ca. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. I'm just back from Chicago. And once again, Scott Free, although Scott and I had a fantastic time there after we got him past Secret Service, which was a problem. But I have another amazing guest co-host. It's CNN's Laura Coates, one of my favorite people, the host of the Laura Coates Live in the late evening.

How are you? How's it going? I'm good. You're still in Chicago. I'm still in Chicago. It was a celery salt with the late evening. How are you? How's it going? I'm good. You're still in Chicago. I'm still in Chicago. It was a celery salt with the hot dogs. So me and my acid reflux are going to remain for a little bit with these hot dogs. You've got to do the entire time. You've got to do it. How long do you do? Can people understand what you all have to do there every night? There's boxes that you sit in, right? All these boxes. There's boxes we sit in. There are soap boxes we stand on.

It's all there. No, we have, so my setup is, well, first thing I do Sirius XM in the morning, like 6 a.m. to 8 a.m. this time. Then we kind of do the all day sort of going to the convention, talking to people, having the conversations, getting to where people are.

And then at night, with the primetime lineup, it starts. And we are either in what's called this anchor suite, overlooking the stage. And I, of course, have that vibe being in the United Center thinking, will Michael Jordan come out all of a sudden? It'll be the whole great thing. And then we've got the CNN Flickr Grill, where they just load us up with food.

We've got anywhere from the hot dogs to the mozzarella sticks to the Sunday bar, just to make sure that we don't realize that we're up all night, 24-7. It works. And honestly, it is a great time to get to see people in their element. I mean, you know, the conventions, people are out there, there's the schmoozing and the elbow rubbing. There's also people who are trying to understand what the platform is. They're trying to network in order to get things done eventually, because we're 75 days away, right? Something like that for the election. And so we are interviewing people. We're trying to get a sense of what comes next. Because obviously the convention, you know,

Kara, it's got that preacher to choir feel, but they got to get it outside of the convention halls. And so what's next is our focus. And it's funny to watch the networking CNN. I mean, I saw Michael Cohen there. I say, like, Dean Phillips was there being very thirsty about talking to everybody. Well, it was a it was he's a Minnesotan. And he has been looking at another Minnesotan getting a whole lot of attention. Yeah. He's one. Damn. Damn. He's saying, damn, it was me. You know, there were a lot of possible presidential candidates there, too, who could have, it could have been them, right? Whether it's Gavin Newsom or Amy Klobuchar or anybody else. And here it is this, right? So they probably are all trying to, like, tamp down their ambition and then be like, we're here for the team, for Coach Walls kind of thing.

Well, that's why the Sunday bar is good. You can swallow down some of that pride with a nice little hot fudge. But you know what? You're right. The Democrats have been talking for a long time about the deep bench, right? They're talking about their bench and they have the future and they've got the widest party and they're able to, there's room for everyone from the Bill Clinton Democrats to the AOC Democrats to everyone in between.

And they've been trying to show it this week. Now, you contrast that to the split screen of Milwaukee, and you didn't have, say, George W. coming out, and you didn't have the same, you know, your grandfather's Republican Party. You didn't have it. Just so you know, we're recording this on Thursday morning before the big night tonight with Kamala Harris. But I'm sure Beyonce and Taylor Swift were great. I'm sorry to miss it. But yeah, this is definitely a party vibe. We're going to get we're going to do a deep dive on all this today. The speeches, the breakout moments, the good vibes. Plus, our friend of Pivot is New Mexico's Democratic Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham. She's lively. She did a spoke at the

convention this week and her state is at the forefront of some of those important issues, the election, especially immigration. So what do you think of the messaging so far? Aside from the fact that, look, it's a bubble, no matter how you slice it. And I'm not trying to be the bummer here. But a lot of the Harris people I ran into kept saying that to me, like trying to bring it down. It was really interesting. Even though the messaging was forward, fast forward, Kamala's great, she's a leader, everything else. Give me sort of your overall view of the messaging. You know, what I thought was interesting is this word underdog we keep hearing about, right? I mean, people in America and in the world, they love an underdog story. So on the one hand, I think people like to feel as though there is a hurdle and then there's

psychological dopamine effect of being able to overcome it. But then there's also the realization of, no, no, it's not just for show. There's actually an election to win or to lose, and you can do both things. And I feel like the vibe is optimistic. It is certainly a whole different ballgame than what we were hearing about even a month ago. People were prepping for funeral vibes for the DNC. Can you imagine if it was the other? I was thinking that. I think my phone would blow up less about trying to come to the grill. People were prepping for like funeral vibes for the DNC. Can you imagine if it was the other? I was thinking that. I think my phone would blow up less about trying to come to the grill. Right, right.

That would be a different thing. But now I think they have to manage expectations. And the lawyer in me is always like, when someone would ask in private practice or otherwise, are we going to win? And you'd kind of like, in the back of your mind, heck yeah. On the other hand, I need to make sure that there is an equal part CYA and you're not getting ahead of your own skis. I think that's what they're doing because I think the more people try to count Donald Trump out and have amnesia about the resilience of a man called Teflon Don, it's going to be problematic. They're trying to thread that needle. What do you think about that? I mean, the way in which he works out? Well, I think they think he's like, you know,

Dracula, right? Right. Like, are you sure that steak is in there? Are you sure? Are you sure? You know, I think he gets up a lot, a lot more than you think, although it does seem I mean, I think the messaging I thought was interesting is the shift from democracy is at risk, which is like really big. Like, oh, God, I've got to save democracy this morning. I also have to feed my kids, right? Breakfast. And I've got to stop them fighting with each other. Do your kids actually eat breakfast?

Because mine don't. They just eat cheese. And then they complain about hunger and starvation. Yes, exactly. Right. Eat your grape nuts right now. But it's my kids weirdly enough love grape nuts. Wait a second.

Am I one of your children? Because I'm not going to age myself, weirdly enough love grape nuts. Wait a second. Am I one of your children? Cause I'm not going to love, I'm not going to age myself, but I love grape nuts. It's kind of an interesting thing for kids too. It's very fibrous though. I know it's fibrous. It's fibrous.

They like it. What can I say? I'm an excellent, I'm a better parent than you. No, I'm kidding. But I think the, the idea of making them small rather than this sort of big villain is smart, I think. I mean, existential threat to democracy doesn't fit on a T-shirt very well as much as, you know, other things.

But it's interesting because there has been a conscientious and intentional choice, I feel like, to make him diminished. Right. And to suggest that it's just a mosquito one wants to gnat away in some way, or as Hakeem Jeffries talked about, the boyfriend circle in the block, that you know there's a reason we broke up. I think all those ways is doing perhaps a benefit to trying to get Democrats to focus on their platform, but it's also getting under the collar and under the skin of Donald Trump. Yeah, he can't focus when he's being attacked like this. I mean, I think the penis thing with Obama was the best thing I've ever seen. I don't know if it'll work, but it was very funny. He obviously was trying to insinuate that Donald Trump is a small penis, which I thought was...

Was it an insinuation or did we go past that? I think we went way past that. But Scott and I talked to quite a few lawmakers at the convention. We did actual interviews like you, including Congressman Maxwell Frost of Florida. We wanted to talk to the first Gen Z member of Congress. Here's what he had to say about the momentum of this campaign. Let's listen. One more quick question. Kamala Harris has caught up. Do you think she has a big chance of winning here? She certainly has momentum. Yeah, we're going to win this campaign. But what I'm telling people, too, especially because I'm an organizer, is we can't let this excitement cloud us. That's what the Republicans did.

Yeah, yeah. We're not going to win no matter what. We're going to win when we do the work, if we do the work. And we will do the work. And that's why, as I've been traveling, I'll tell you, people are excited and they're getting to work.

So they use the word work a lot on stage. Do you agree with this? Does enthusiasm have momentum? This honeymoon has gone on for quite a while. And of course, the Republicans are blaming the media for being cheerleaders. And it's not real. It's AI'd, which I think is kind of strange. It's a real thing. love an underdog and Cinderella story, the teardown can be enticing as well. And you know that when you have people, you'll have, what do they say in That's Life? It's all people say, you're flying high on Monday, you're shot down in May, right? That's part of the political give and take. And I do think that the Democrats are going to have to really try to keep an eye on the prize. But what that prize is, is shifting. On one day, the prize is

just trying to stay above the fray and not roll around in the mud. The other day, it's trying to make sure people are convinced that there's not some disingenuous service from the governor of Minnesota. Another day, they're having conversations about whether it was IVF or whether it was IUI. Then you've got swatting away of, you know, when she turned black or otherwise. And you got immigration and the economy still on the horizon. So they're going to have to shift a lot and have to focus. But this is the thing I've been talking to a lot of people

about on the ground here, Cara. They are frustrated by the double standard that's ahead. And I don't just mean that I'm kind of a woman running for office or a woman of color running for office or being in office. It's also about what is expected of Kamala Harris and what's expected as an incumbent versus a former president. One would think that a former president would be held to the same granular detail standard of developing and explaining a platform. Not the case. What Harris and Walls will have to explain is very different than what Trump and Vance

will have to explain and account for. And I think the frustration is, what will be the tactic going forward to address the double standard and not falling for the bait, which a lot of people are talking about, the bait of mispronunciation? You know, I had Corey Lewandowski

on my SiriusXM show just the other day, and I heard him mispronunciation. You know, I had Corey Lewandowski on my SiriusXM show just the other day, and I heard him mispronounce her name consistently. And I have the impression when I hear this time and time again, that people would like you to derail and focus on this detail as opposed to the questions that are being asked and what the people want to know about. And so the frustration will be the fear of how it will be handled, because the double standard is real and the derailment is possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're focusing on why are you pronouncing it that way?

I mean, Nancy May said it out loud on CNN the other day, like, I'm just going to mispronounce it because I want to. It's so childish. And then you end up talking about that. See, what I would do is I would call him Lebowski. I'm sorry, I just keep mispronouncing his name and then not noting it. It's just a tip there. Kara Swisher and Scott Galley, which you should subscribe to already. But there have been a lot of great speakers so far. The Obamas, Doug Emhoff, Oprah, that was in some speech, Hillary Clinton.

Who have been, stack rank them for me. Who have been your favorites and what do you think has been most effective? I think that First Lady Michelle Obama brought the House down. I think it's pretty clear that when she left the Oval Office, she left the Fs, so to speak, or the concerns behind. You can say thoughts here. Well, I could, but then I would have said that. Okay. There are edges of it, right?

She left it behind. And I feel like there is something very freeing, it seems, at times I'm experiencing and hearing from them all, where they've got nothing left to lose and everything to lose. And I feel like she, in her address about the Black jobs comment, I mean, the whole room went, oh, you know, fist to mouth leading back and looking around. I think after her, I think it was Barack Obama. I thought for different reasons, Wes Moore and Secretary Buttigieg were great at showing the future. I thought the families of the hostages were particularly compelling

and addressed partially an elephant in the room and outside the convention hall. And then I thought Tim Walz, coach. I thought the folksy manner that we often are accustomed to for Bill Clinton compared to the true folksiness as well of Coach, I thought played really well. But if I'm remembering one person, and Oprah goes without saying, the purple suit alone. I kept going, she still got it. She's still the best.

She was incredible. And of course, she did the whole, She had to. She had to. She knew it. And she knew it's also Chicago's her town. Right. Exactly. I get there was a hometown here. Welcome. Now, Biden was great, too. The first night, I thought it was in many ways the goodbye. Oh, no, I didn't think that was good. I know. I thought it was the goodbye for him. Yes, but I thought it was like, we don't need a State of the Union speech right now. We need a grandpa's going and I love you so much kids kind of thing. I thought it was way too much.

He could do whatever he wants. You know what I mean? Same thing with Hillary. She can do her little laugh about the lock her up. But they've got to go, I think, is the whole the idea of it, right? It's time to go and turn not just turn the page on Donald Trump, but turn the page on a lot of things, right? To me, I'll tell you what the most effective thing so far and I was there for two nights and I watched it on television because it's a very different experience on television versus being there. I'll tell you that because you don't know. I kept thinking while I was in the hall, how is this actually looking on camera, right? And some of them spoke right to the camera, like a lot of them. Obviously, Oprah, Obama, Michelle Obama, they understood who they were speaking to, right?

Which was, these ratings were speaking to, right? Which was, these ratings are pretty good, right? They're 20 million or whatever. Although they skew very old, by the way. But I think it was, I think it was the football team that came out. The guy who was the football guy, the guy who was talking about his, and then they brought out all the old guys in like- In their jerseys? That don't fit. Like, you know what I mean? I was like, oh, my God, they must love this guy, right? Well, first of all, good. I'm glad for once a man's shirt doesn't fit on stage.

You know what? The pouch is real. Whatever. The pouch is real. I thought that was like, okay, these do not look like Kamala Harris' typical voters, but they are, right? I thought that was real. And I thought the guy who introduced it was quite sharp. I was like, ooh, handsome man's coming out. And then he delivered. I thought that was real and i thought the guy who introduced it was quite sharp i was like oh handsome man's coming out and then he delivered i thought that was really strong i felt like doug

emloff's was adorable it was adorkable and that was nice adorkable that you said i love that hey like everybody could relate to that i think a lot of it was relatable but again i think the most effective were like the football players the the girl who got raped by her stepfather. That kind of stuff does resonate, I do think, especially I can see ads being cut from a lot of this stuff. Well, there's the organic idea. I mean, every politician strives to be the everyday person. Right. And then when you actually bring on everyday real people who don't have the same cards in the game, it's a whole different ballgame. But can we just talk for a second about Gus, his son, crying?

That was very sweet and endearing, wasn't it? I don't cry ever. And I was like, oh, my God. And obviously, he's neurodivergent. And that was real. He's neurodivergent. And that was real. You know, the split screen, though, what do you think of the split screen of, you know,

the moments when you bring out the families for, say, the RNC versus now? They look like they like each other. When we talked about the RNC, everyone kept saying, wow, this really humanizes Donald Trump. It really humanizes him to see his grandchild on his lap or his granddaughter on the stage or his daughter's in law. The granddaughter was good. They didn't talk about the fact that the spouse, Melania Trump, did not speak, although she was there. Yeah. Does it really make a difference to voters when the spouses speak? Do you think? Oh, I think Melania is doing him a disfavor by what she's doing. I mean, you know, whatever she can choose. She got paid,

whatever. But I think I think they were much more. Yes, I do think people like to see families who seem to like each other working or are complex. Because most people's families are complex. But the contrast I really saw was the sense of humor. Like there was no humor at the Republic. It was very funereal, really, especially with everyone wearing maxi pads on their heads. And I don't know how you all kept a straight face and not know what are you doing? But they were ultra-thins.

They were ultra-thins, Karen. So it wasn't, it folded much better. Still as absorbent. Anyway, so I think Democrats successfully used humor as a tactic. And I think it worked. I was trying to, I get a little worried if you're a little too snark people like you're that the regular people are like, that's not funny. But these were actual funny jokes. Let's listen to Michelle Obama, who you just referred to. Who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs? And now

former President Barack Obama. There's the childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes. The other day I heard someone compare Trump to the neighbor who keeps running his leaf blower outside your window every minute of every day. Did they succeed in making it fun and funny? Because there's a line where you're too mean, right? Or you're snarky and you're too elite in that regard. I think it's the double standard thing again. Democrats have been traditionally so worried about maintaining the moral high ground that they don't engage in the same tactics

that Republicans often do. So they would even, they're probably having a conversation about, do you think it's too much or too little, which would never occur to the campaign of Trump versus Vance to figure out, are we being either snarky enough or combative enough or aggressive enough or below the belt enough. And I wonder sometimes if voters, one, really do have the appetite for, you know, the mud, but also whether they're wondering, why isn't there more of this? Because they see, well, not just tit for tat, it's like, bringing a grape to a fistfight. You got to bring something 77 days before an election. I don't think they got too snarky, but I think there is a risk, Kara, back to your earlier point. Overconfidence

can make you make missteps, and you can take something that otherwise people were behind you, and then it goes too far too quickly. Right, right. I do think one of the things about Kamala Harris, and she and I have talked about this, I've felt she's too cautious of who she is. One of the things that Kamala Harris, I know, I have talked about this. I felt she's too cautious of who she is. One of the things that Kamala Harris, I know, and I think Barack Obama had this problem is she couldn't be an angry black man. She can't be an angry black lady, right? She can't be righteous. She can't feel like the way she reacted to him calling her turning black, I thought was really interesting. She just was like, that's nonsense. She just, she ignored it, right? She could have gone righteous easily. And that would have annoyed people, even if it's

correct to be angry about it. And I think Michelle Obama decided to do that for her. She's the one who's like this guy. And let me tell you, like, she's absorbing the anger for Kamala, who can then be joyful. You know, are you kidding? I've never been accused of being an angry black woman at all. I don't, I don't, you mean with the resting bitch face. I don't know what you're talking about at all. But I tell you how rare it is to see a former first lady become the attack dog for a candidate in the future, right? And I think you're exactly right about why and what the assignment is. Because as she said in her speech, her anger towards Trump was for how many years you tried to make the American people afraid of us, afraid of us,

pointing to herself and successful Black men and women and people of color and have otherism replace policy differences and objections. And I think for Kamala, waiting to hear how all this was playing and having the ability to take a step back and see how the speech of the Obamas went over, how it's being received, what has picked up, it is a focus group in real time. But I think she's got to address the issues of identity. There is a lot of conversation about, hey, she's got to define herself and introduce herself. But then she's also got to talk about the issues, right? Once you get past what people already see, what are you going to do for us? What are you going to do for us, right? She is naturally a happy person. I mean, when she's now this, like, well, this is what she's like. I mean,

she's always been like this. She just is cautious. She's always been overly cautious in my situation. And I get it. I don't even like, I know why she's doing it. But I think that she, you're right. She's got to say who she is. And just like, you either like me or you don't. This is what I, this is what I am. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Tim Walz's big night and the DNC's roll call dance party. And we'll talk to New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer

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Walz shared his personal story, talked about his record, made a case for Kamala Harris and yes, reminded everyone about weird Republicans. This is arguably the biggest speech of Tim Walz's career. How do you look at it? I thought it was a moment to define who he would be in relation to Kamala Harris. Would he be somebody who had this spotlight on him and he focused on himself? Or would he focus on what as a team they could do with her at the helm? I thought it was really effective. And the idea that as a coach, the focus would still be on what's going on in the field and the players. That and that now is going to continue throughout this entire thing. I thought he came across as down to earth, as folksy, as an everyday

sort of person. The Second Amendment comments he raised, I think were probably what would be most effective. Yeah. The only thing he didn't say, and I was waiting because he did the whole to take the ball down the line. You know, he did that. I was like, why didn't you say give the ball to Kamala? She's our quarterback and she's going to run it through with our help. She didn't. He didn't do that. That's the only like ridiculous football trope he didn't do. And I was like, if you're going to go halfway, go all the way, sir. There was a talk when Waltz was chosen as VP a few weeks ago that he should have been Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, who also spoke last night. Has Waltz silenced the doubters? Obviously, one of the things I was getting from a lot of the Harris people was they're very worried about Pennsylvania. That seems to be on their brains, the worry about losing Pennsylvania. But is he silenced doubters now? I thought when Josh Shapiro spoke, he's not a vice president. He's a leading man. Like, this is not a vice president. Well, I think there were sources who said that that was precisely why he was not a chosen person, that he was not, you know, you remember we heard famously Biden talking about Obama and that he wanted to be the last guy in the room. He didn't want to be sidelined. He wasn't going to be the curtains in the room. He was going to be the person sitting next to you at the desk. I think you have to, if you are on the top of the ticket,

decide who is going to be in that position so that when you go to them, they've got your back. They don't have a knife aiming for your back. Now, I'm not suggesting that he had that, but that's part of the calculus. And I think watching Walls, I think it became clear to people who had never maybe heard of him before or been introduced the same way that they go, oh, I get it. And that epiphany is probably what you want to have among voters who were already on your camp, whether it entices other voters to go, oh, wait, I like him now. The opposite effect has happened after the polling came out for J.D. Vance and said it was, I don't get it, you know? And so I think that in

the epiphany is a little bit different. I think, though, Shapiro is not done with his political ambition, nor, you know, for him should he be. I think there are a number of people, though, that we saw come across that stage who would find themselves in a primary, who would find themselves in an election in the future. And I think more than them sizing up Tim Walz, they were sizing up one another and trying to figure out which of us is going to be our main contender and which of us will be the person as the second in command. Right. What I thought when I saw both Shapiro and Buttigieg, and I thought Buttigieg did a better job, honestly, because he comes off as much more likable in that regard. I say Kamala Harris won, so that's 2028.

Say she wins again, 2032. I thought these are the two people fighting for 2032, which is interesting. Or a Wes Moore. Yeah, Wes Moore. Oh, yeah, Wes Moore was terrific, too. And who knows? And that's the thing. I mean, look, if the last month is any indication, you have no idea who's going to be on the top of it.

Things change like that. Yeah, they do. Four years ago, we's going to be on the top of it. Things change like that. Yeah, they do. Four years ago, we thought he'd be on the top of the ticket or not. Yeah. One last question about that. He has a debate with J.D. Vance. I have this weird idea. Listen, hear me out. J.D. Vance has an issue with men and strong men and the need to have them around.

You know what I mean? Like, because, and he's written about it in his book. So I'm not like going off on a limb here because of his own father and everything else. He's talked about it rather significantly in that book. And you could see that, like the need for a strong male figure in his life. And I thought, how's he going to react to Tim Walls? Right? Who is dad, right? Who's the good dad? He had a bad dad. In the debate, I thought that's going to be an interesting, because here you have someone who's incredibly likable. And I don't think J.D. Manz is stupid, but he's not likable. He's unlikable, actually, in that. And even when Barack Obama called Hillary likable enough, he's not even likable enough. How do you see that, the contrast playing out there? Well, the Hollywood fan in me wants to see a Good Will Hunting, Robin Williams, Matt Damon,

it's not your fault, man. And then he cries and goes, that's my dad. I mean, that would be a moment. Just keep repeating it. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.

That would be amazing. But the realist, the pragmatist in me says, I think you're going to see, even though age was an issue before with Biden and Trump, I think the age difference and the coach to sort of could have been my student difference will show in a way where I don't think walls will come across as condescending or patronizing. And I think by default, you'll set up almost a teacher student dynamic. I think Vance has the risk of coming across as petulant. The risk, that is his basic setting. Well, yeah, this is his noise range. You know, that's he's always like, oh, well, well, I mean, well, imagine that in a classroom and Walt as the teacher. I think that's what they have to balance against. You have to balance against Walt wanting to be instructive and not a teacher and Vance being a student of history and politics and not coming across as naive.

Right. And that's going to be the tension. And frankly, normally you wouldn't be tuning into these vice presidential debates as much as you would be. I am dying to see this play out. I really am dying to see some of the stock because, you know, Waltz has been kind of the attack dog already. And he didn't just focus on Trump. He focused on J.D. Vance, which normally says to me, you're scared of the person you want to go at him. I don't get that vibe. No, I really don't. Yeah. But I really want the Robin Williams, Matt Damon. OK, all right. OK, we'll hope for it. Let's hope for it. Fingers crossed, because everything's about our entertainment, not the future of the country.

Are you not entertained? Okay. Speaking of entertaining, there's no question the Dems are having a lot of fun at the convention this week. The vibes are great. It's been described as the Dems' personal Ears Tour. The fun was perhaps most prominent on Tuesday night as the traditional roll call became one big party and DJ spinning tunes tied to each state. Much is being made about the contrast with the RNC. Roll call. Well, it's not even a contrast. Let's listen to some of the differences between the two conventions, back and forth clips starting with the RNC.

Delegates and alternates, let us commence with the roll, with a call of the roll of the states. Delegates, are you ready? Let me hear you. the role of the states. Delegates, are you ready? Let me hear you. Iowa, 40 delegates. Georgia, 59 delegates. DNC, turn out for what? Okay, we didn't make this up.

Jesus Christ. That was Lil Jon in the surprise performance at the DNC there. What did you think of the musical? I mean, we are being fair here. That's what it was. I mean. People are Googling right now going, are they kidding? First of all, the phrase from the window to the walls wrote itself in a day,

you know, that it was clearly there was enthusiasm. Clearly they were trying to, but it just showed the contrast. I think of how they were trying to make the tent of the party that much bigger. But it also says to you that they are, this would not have been the roll call a month ago. Do we think Lil Jon and others were coming out at the DNC a month ago? I don't think they were. Maybe, I don't know. I don't know his schedule. I don't know anything about it. But the idea that it's happening right now tells you that this was renewed excitement and charge. I think there's going to be moments, though, when Democrats are going to continually have to not count their chickens before they hatch. And enthusiasm inside of a convention, they've got to bring that same fire and energy. It's got to be turned down

for what, 75 days from now as well. Is there one part you didn't like that you thought, oh, no, no, no, no, no. You know, I think that there were so many speeches. There is a risk of oversaturation. I can't identify the person who I would say we could have not had on, but the sheer volume of content. Too much content. Yeah. I wonder. I wonder in a world where we've got people who oftentimes have an attention span of soundbite alone, whether really key moments were lost by virtue of the fact that there was just so much. And there was a lot of good content. I also think that sometimes, I mean, with the Republican convention, they had very set themes each day, and each day seemed to go on that. This convention has been more fluid in that the theme is joy, right? The theme is new and rejuvenation and something that's more enthusiastic.

And I wonder if a thematic approach would have been helpful or cumbersome. But I think those are the only two things I thought, huh, how is this going to go? But, you know, you can't quibble with Stevie Wonder performing. All right. Last thing. Someone who's not feeling the good vibes this week, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., reportedly ending his independent presidential campaign, endorsing former President Donald Trump. He's been wandering around trying to get a deal with someone. He announced on Wednesday he'll be giving a speech at the end of the week to the nation on his path forward. No, the nation is caring less and less about him.

Kennedy's running maid and campaign piggyback, Nicole Shanahan, said earlier this week the ticket was considering ending the campaign and endorsing Trump before she had been anti-Trump just months earlier. But go ahead, Nicole, whatever. She's a terrible person, so that's not a surprise. That was a pivot I didn't expect. Well, she is. I'm sorry. I know a lot about her. Trump told CNN on Tuesday that he would be open to RFK Jr. playing a role in his administration if Kennedy were to drop out and endorse him.

This is like trading an endorsement for a position seems somewhat strange. Are you surprised by any of this? And do you think there'll be an impact on the election? The total share of voters supporting Kennedy and other third-party candidates has declined, especially for Kennedy. He was in the 13s. I know he's at five. And I think he's going that direction down. So

do you think it matters at all? I think it matters to streamline the ticket so that voters have the binary choice. Well, there's still Jill Stein, you know that she's still around. So is so is Cornell. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think but I think people, yes, realistically, I think people, we welcome all into the democratic fold. And yet, I think people conceptually only ever see two, whether that's a good thing or bad thing to let people debate amongst themselves. But what I think is exhausting are epiphanies, and wanting people to believe that 180 is a feather in the cap and a sign of maturity, as opposed to what it normally is, which is hypocrisy. The idea of turning around all of a sudden and having lambasted and having vilified and condemned and criticized, and then all of a sudden saying, but you know what? We're good now. I think for voters feels exhausting. It makes them think to themselves,

I can't trust any of you, any of you people for that very reason. When you had Nikki Haley, for example, come on the stage, the RNC, when you had Senator J.D. Vance be the running mate, when you have, if, you know, RFK Jr. decides to do that for either endorsement, similarly. So it's a bunch of liars. It's a bunch of opportunists, really. Yeah. It makes people lean out. And I think it's counterproductive to having everyone be a part of it. Now, people have every right to campaign as hard as they can, and then decide who they want to throw their numbers and weight behind. But the weight would have been more impactful when it was weighty. Yes, yes. Well, he wouldn't do it because he's an arrogant prick.

But anyway, you don't have to say that. Anyway, I think it's I think it doesn't have any impact. I think he's he's done. I stick a fork in him kind of thing. Last thing is Scott and I talked to Senator Amy Klobuchar about the state of the election so far. Here's what she had to say. What are you most worried about? It's even. But she is surging ahead in a number of these swing states. I mean, the polls are changing quickly. And when I look at what she's done in 30 days, you know, anyone would look at that trajectory and think it's a positive one. You always get worried about Donald Trump. You know, he makes things up.

You've got to be ready. I'll be chairing the inauguration no matter who wins, as well as in charge of making sure the electoral ballots are being counted. So what do you think I'm worried about? Right. We've got to make sure that whole thing moves in a much better way than it did on January 6. Let me ask you this question. What would you do if you were Donald Trump right now? She's saying that you always get worried about Donald Trump, and you noted that earlier. If I were him, I'd be figuring out a way to exploit every Achilles heel on the areas that I have spent eight years or more fear mongering or trying to get people to believe are directly attributable to the Democratic Party. I would spend very little time on the personal attacks. time trying to tie Harris to the Biden administration in a way that was, in a voter's mind, disparaging and deflate the argument that suggests that I am a narcissist. But I also think

that all the advice in the world will not encourage somebody who believes that he is his own best champion, advocate, and publicist. And that is going to be the challenge of the campaign from here until November. But she also mentioned January 6th. And I think that by virtue of it being on her mind and so many others' minds, that he has to try to take the wind out of the sails, that he has some intention of a repeat of what happened that day. But he keeps saying he does. It's just...

He's saying it, you know, but that's, again, that's the exhaustion of the 180. Right. The exhaustion of the duplicitous and lies. He definitely has to go back to funny himself. That's what was appealing about him. And now he's dark. I think Pete Jojo's had it right,

and I don't think he's capable of it, but perhaps he is. Well, we'll see. The debate's coming up. And Will going toe-to-toe with a woman, a woman of color, will that bring a side of him that we either we've seen before or have yet to see? No, he can't. He can't do it. Just the sight of her. And also he thinks she's attractive.

You can tell that. And everything is about looks with him. So it's a problem. Well, he thinks he's more beautiful. Didn't you hear him say that? He knows he's not. His problem is he's attracted to her. I hate to say that, and I don't want to, and I don't mean to, everything is looks for this man. A lot of it is visual looks. Anyway, Scott and I had some great conversations with Senator Mark Kelly and Senator Michael Bennett. You can see all of our conversations with them, as well as Amy Klobuchar, Max Frost, and Mark Kelly on our YouTube channel, Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway.

Let's go to our friend of Pivot. Michelle Lujan Grisham is the Democratic governor of New Mexico. Governor, welcome. Thank you, Kara. Nice to be here. Nice to see you, Laura. Nice to see you. So all three of us were at the DNC this week. I am back home now. You're all still there, marching around the United Center. But you were the only one who were on the podium among us. We were not on the podium. And you gave a fiery speech at the convention on Tuesday night.

Can you get that out there, that it was a fiery speech? That's not the feedback I'm getting. I'm going to count on you two to fix that. What did they say it was? I'm just teasing. No, it was fire. It was fire. I would say fire is a good thing. Let me start by asking, what do Kamala Harris and the Democrats need to do to keep the momentum after the convention? And I should mention your connection that Vice President Harris runs pretty deep. She officiated your wedding in 2022. Congratulations. Thank you. What do you need to do? You're in a bubble right now.

You're all in a bubble right now. And it's a good bubble. It's a happy bubble. And it feels exciting and fast-moving. But what do they need to do next? Keep this momentum. I mean, it's very easy, to your point, in this bubble. Like, we're on a high.

It's a sugar high. What happens after a sugar high? A crash. And so we're on a high. It's a sugar high. What happens after a sugar high? A crash. And so we can't do that. I think this enthusiasm really focused on a future. You better make that relevant to a voter. So you have to talk to them about what it's going to mean, right, in their monthly bills, what it means for the future of their children. I actually think Governor Walz did a really great job yesterday. I've known him for a long time. We served in Congress that making it relatable. I now understand what all of these and I'm a policy wonk. You know, that's not always a strength of mine to be able to shift to making it real to everyday American families. American families. And I'm going to take these messages and make sure that it's meaningful and real to everyday New Mexico families, who in many ways, right, we've increased the minimum wage, we've seen incredible salary growth, we've seen incredible job growth. And yet, if we have free

childcare free to anyone at 400% of poverty, we're going to be the first state to make it universal for everyone. But if you're still feeling like it's not enough, and you don't know what tomorrow is, and you're feeling like you can't protect your family, then we got a problem on election day. And frankly, we got three weeks before early voting. So take it to your families, get on the phone, get on the doors. Take these messages home right now. You know, interestingly enough, you've got a governor, as you know, as the running mate. There is something very significant knowing that you governors and, of course, mayors and everyone at the state level are on the front lines looking to the chaos on Capitol Hill and saying, what are you going to do to make our lives and our work easier and also uplift? What are you going to do to make our lives and our work easier and also uplift? What's the significance that you're seeing now with the enthusiasm around Governor Walz as an indication of how the governors and individual states will be able to be supported

if they're successful? Well, you said it. Nobody can relate to the dysfunction in D.C. That just creates anger and a lack of credibility for anybody who's elected. And Governor Walz is able to say, here's my track record. I got these things done. I know you. I get it. We're going to fix it. So when I tell you I'm going to bring that can-do attitude to now Washington, D.C., and we're a ticket that's going to make it real for you, he can point directly to his successes. That's the difference here. Governors and mayors, as you said, are where the rubber meets the road.

We are, in fact, getting it done. So one of the big Republican talking points now seems to be hammering on Kamala Harris on immigration. They've called her a failed border czar, despite the fact that she was never the border czar. She's getting criticized for some Joe Biden's immigration policies, but she's attached to Joe Biden. So that's somewhat fair. As governor of a border state, and she was a senator from a border state, do you think immigration will be a liability in the long run? Or have other things precluded it? Because in your DNC speech, you focused on health care, including women's reproductive freedom. Is that the issue of the election? Reproductive justice is something

everyone can relate to. We're clear. And now we've got brand new harrowing data that shows that now we've got higher infant mortality because women don't get access anywhere that they need. I've got billboards in Texas recruiting doctors. I mean, you don't have the right access points anywhere. And we know that reproductive health services and clinics serve as a primary care, right, environment for women of childbearing age and beyond. So this is an issue that's relevant for everyone and will be important in the election. But look, immigration and crime and, frankly, even taxes. Immigration and crime, and frankly, even taxes. These are the sort of bread and butter issues that Republicans have always been able to sort of take from Democrats, even though their record on these issues are deplorable.

And often, they create the very barriers that prevent us from doing stuff. So you heard last night, I'm going to get to immigration, I promise, that Governor Walz said, look, I've cut taxes. I've had remarkable tax cuts, all at the middle class. Crime is down in America. We're doing really robust interventions in New Mexico. We're not quite there yet, given our, we've just got a decade where we didn't invest in policing, fair, just community policing. We're changing that. But they've been able to own that. So yes, I think there are always issues that

Democrats got to be mindful about. And particularly since Trump has really worked to lie per usual, but really create this fear based and fear mongering and more racist hate and rhetoric in America. But he's not just responsible for killing a bipartisan border deal in Congress this time. Yeah. No, he did it. He did it before that. I was the Congressional Hispanic Caucus chair. And I think Americans have forgotten he stripped the executive order protections for DREAMers. And then said, look, Congress has a responsibility to do this. That was his out. And again,

he was manipulative and he was trying to work on getting Republicans not to do it. We got a bipartisan deal. We were about ready to get it passed in on the House. Senator McCain, we had it, in my view, greased in the Senate, ready to go. No surprise to you all that there was no good relationship between he and Senator McCain. And he destroyed that, including, I literally had to sneak into the White House. He had an immigration meeting. I'm leading immigration. I rolled up in a blanket like a burrito and went right through security and showed up at that damn meeting because I was disinvited. He was never going to do immigration reform. He's not interested in the fixes. If we don't have enough personnel,

you can't do the work. And yes, nefarious activity can and will continue to occur. And then people who are seeking fair asylum, whether it's through the ports of entry, and we don't want them outside of a port of entry, we can't fix it. And then we can't do the investments on visas and immigration reform here. I met a three-year-old, a three-year-old. I saw it when I was in Congress, who was by himself, doesn't speak English, before an immigration judge having to make, as a little boy, his case about whether he can seek asylum status in America. That's disgusting. How can we let that happen here?

Because there's no people, there's no social workers, there's no immigration staff, there are no lawyers, no judges. You know how we can let it happen? We've had a history since the beginning of making immigrants. I mean, you know, Italians, Irish. They're going to have to fight back on this issue. And I'm going to help them fight back. J.D. Banz was just talking about how the Italians, I was offended for my grandfather, like, who came over on a boat when he was saying, you know, criminal elements of the Italians. I was like, hi, hello, that's me.

Yeah, it's disgusting. But yes, so liability I disagree with. But don't ignore that these are issues that we have long been sort of saddled with as not being effective on. And it's just a lie. That doesn't mean the border is fixed. And I think that they need more validators, governors like me, governors like Katie Hobbs, governors like Gavin Newsom, to really talk about we want these fixes. We're not standing in America's way. They are. Well, Governor, what you articulate really is a tale as old as time as a tactic of otherism, of trying

to fearmonger and suggest that there is some one definition of what it means to be American and then the fear of either the browning of America or the fear of somebody taking and usurping what entitled people feel belongs to them. But that's part of the conversation being conflated by immigration, being conflated about crime and about jobs in this country. It strikes me, of course, as somebody like yourself, a woman in power, a woman of color in power, there is something unique about the assaults and attacks that will be directed to you. And of course, by virtue of her identity as well, Vice President Kamala Harris, it is enticing to hit back every time. It is maybe political suicide to do so as well. What would you advise in terms of the next 70-something days of how to grapple with the otherism directed at the candidate for office? I think she's trying to say, how black should she turn?

You are officially my translator. Go ahead and answer it, Governor. I want to be on the other side of this. I want to be the journalist, and now I want to interview the elected person. Yeah, look, I do think, I hope I'm not oversimplifying. I do think we need to be more positive. Now, you know, my family is different. Every family in America is different. My family's been here for hundreds of years, since the late 1400s. I'm a seventh generation, doctorate-degreed, educated individual. Hispanic Latino family by any stretch of the imagination. And this sort of, this otherism is to create sort of this lack of diversity in all of our populations, that we all have our own stories. I think they need to talk about the future of economic security and careers. The fastest growing young group in America are Latinos and Latinas. These are the individuals who are going to shape the future of this country economically, strategically, intellectually, with the stuff that

you do and talking about tech and cybersecurity. You know where that's going to come from? It's going to come from this population. Don't let them stick you into this. it's terrible out there and disgusting, horrible labels. Everyone who's Hispanic is a rapist and a criminal. It is disgusting. And quite frankly, we won't be able to feed the world unless we're really talking about fair, ethical, just labor that we are recruiting and supporting and creating a pathway to success in this country. And got to do it. You know, with Maura Healy is the governor of Massachusetts, and she's able to do that because she's a lesbian, in case you're interested. Is that why she can do it? Is that why I'm not any good at it?

We're never on the defensive. We are on the offensive. I thought it was because she was a basketball player. I thought it was because she was a basketball player. I got, okay. That makes sense. Hurry here, folks. It's all making sense to me now.

The key to success. Be a lesbian. Um, or think like one, but you participated in a very special event on Wednesday, a forum with seven other democratic female governors. You're all badasses in different ways in the country. Yes.

Uh, moderated by Julia, uh, Louise Dreyfus, who I just interviewed, who is also a badass. She had a great introduction. Let's listen to it. We are very honored to have eight highly intelligent,

highly capable women leaders for the 21st century with us, or what J.D. Vance might call a coven of semi-menstruating witches. How did that come off? What was that like? Honestly, that is our lives, right? We get treated in that way. I mean, J.D. Vance, unfortunately, is not the first to be sexist and misogynistic, and he won't be the last. But you know what I love about these Chingona badass women governors is we're making it harder and harder for the J.D. Vances and Trumps of the world to take that issue on in that way. And we're going to make it nearly impossible when we get

Vice President Harris elected in November. What were the themes of the coven? What happened with the coven? Are you taking notes right now, Karen? You're trying to create a secondary journalist coven? Oh, I already have one. I don't know if you know this, but I have a militia etherage. But go ahead. Get it?

Get it? Fair. Oh, I get it. We got it. I'll come to your window anytime oh my god she she did a really julie did a great job uh playing on all of our strikes and making it be a little lighthearted she weaved in well we're getting shit done you know she really got the big gretch environment here we're focused on on making the right things happen in our states, but I need to be a little bit more careful in my communications director. So for people listening

in is right here with me, and he's going to be shaking his head. I have a wicked sense of humor, and I use humor to create both opportunities for meaningful collaboration to dial down the temperature when it gets too hot in a man's world and be too competitive, create collaboration. But I like being a little edgy in that environment. So she really wanted me to talk about that. So it was all over the map. It was fun.

I think it was interesting for people. And I think it showcased that we have a race to the top as governors. We're focusing on the things that each of us do well and replicating them in meaningful, unique ways in our state. We actually like each other. We have real respect for each other. Yeah. And we have a little fun.

In fact, speaking of that Governor Maura Healey, she punked me good during the convention. So she should be on notice. What did she do? She messed with my speech. So during my rehearsal, you know, they're pushing you through and, you know, I might have been a little crispy during the rehearsal, crispy. And my speech is all messed up. And they want me to talk, I'm talking about being en fuego and spicy and hot and get fired up. And I'm now talking about bell peppers and shishito peppers. And I'm losing my mind. Who wrote this? That damn Maura Healey did that. And how she got those guys who were like on this tight schedule to

punk me like that is pretty damn good. Be on notice, Maura Healey. Be on notice. Yeah, there's a lot happening. And one of the things is this word underdog, Governor, we keep hearing at the convention and Democrats trying to, on the one hand, capitalize on the momentum, but know that there's work to be done to get to that 270 after this convention is over. Do you feel like the Democrats are still in an underdog position? Or do you think that there is more than a light at the end of the tunnel, that there is a 270 at the end of the tunnel? Yeah, it's both. Laura, look, we know that this is going to be a close election. We have seen already a couple different times that

it's too close for comfort, particularly when we look at those electoral votes. Any good candidate treats every race like you're the underdog. And if you don't, you're not taking your race seriously. The key here is we've moved from being a little defeatist and maybe apathetic, even though we were always on the right side of this election. Joe Biden and the vice president, Kamala Harris, created this in my state. And I want to talk about it all across America. Look, I've got the best cradle to career investments.

You want to move New Mexico out of poverty? I'm doing that because I got the kind of federal leadership with the opportunities and flexibility, free childcare, constitutional right to childcare, free early childhood education, a moonshot in K-12, new literacy programs, free college, two-year, four-year, free early childhood education, a moonshot in K-12, new literacy programs, free college, two-year, four-year, apprenticeships, trades, all of it. All of it. We're now paying child care and early childhood workers in the same track. They're not quite there, but we will get there as we do K-12 educators. And we lifted all of their salaries. You know how that happens? It happens because they did that work.

And even so, there was apathy about could we win, will we win? And when you let apathy and despair get into an election, you can't motivate your base to turn out. Now we at least we have an opportunity. So the key is take this excitement, take this, you know, history, historic history, and translate it immediately into the work on the ground all across the country. And that's exactly what I'm dedicated to do. I will not wake up. In fact, forget Election Day. Early voting all across the country starts in just weeks. You better be on the phone in every spare moment right now during this convention. So I'm doing that. Can I ask one final question? One of the things that's been, you're talking about not being despair apathetic. This has been a very funny, funny convention and funny and party and just like feel good kind of thing. How do you think

that's an effective way to do it rather rather than the more, the darker approach that Biden actually had, this idea of democracy on the line? I despise, and I wish everyone despised it as much as me, and I'd also like to tell you that I haven't been a bit of a hypocrite in order to win my election, that negative campaigning works, right? And I don't know of a candidate who's had the luxury, particularly early in their elected careers, not to have to do that. You know, somebody does a negative ad against you, you do another one. So, yes, negativity, darkness, anger, it does work. It moves the needle. But here's what's different about what we're doing that I see, and particularly in Governor Waltz's remarks. He said directly,

right, looking right at America, I hear you, I see you. I know that working families don't have what they need to feel secure. You know, and frankly, I'm a bit, he didn't say it in this way, but I'm a little angry about that, my own self as a working class American. You know, we're not done until we're done, But we have a future that we can build together. So own it. Own that it isn't quite right. And that was part of the problem, I think, in the overall Democratic messaging. And I'm guilty of that, too, in my reelect in 22.

And I've built the best economy ever by any stretch or comparison in New Mexico. And yet I had a close race because people weren't feeling it in every corner of the state. That's also a fact. And in that moment, I'm talking about all the numbers and all the things, but I'm not relating.

And I immediately pivoted. You gotta be able to relate to people where they are. They're hurting. And we're doing that finally. Hear them, see them, relate, tell them you're there for them. Now tell them what their future looks like. That's the secret recipe, I believe, for success. And that seems to me to be alive and well in this convention. All right, Governor Grisham, thank you so much. Go enjoy yourself. I'll text you about what you should do tomorrow,

Haley, don't worry. Yeah, listen, I think we should all, I mean, I don't want her to listen to this, so let's not give her a leg up here. I mean, I've got to win this thing. But, yeah, damn, so call me. Don't worry. Okay. All right. Don't tell me I'm a former lawyer, guys. What are you doing?

I don't hear anything. I don't hear anything. Only light pain. What are you talking about? Only light pain. Okay, that's fine. It's not going to be illegal. It's not going to be.

My goodness. Okay, then go ahead. Carry on, carry on, carry on. All right. I'll record it. It's vaguely, to be illegal. My goodness. Go ahead. Carry on. Carry on. I'll record it. It's vaguely, vaguely illegal adjacent. Anyway, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, Laura, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Laura, let's hear a prediction what's your prediction my prediction is that beyonce will somehow find herself on the campaign trail i don't know i don't know in what way i know her song is there but there's got to be something will she perform freedom live will she walk by will she come on like a horse and part of the cowboyboy Carter theme? Something's going to happen. Wouldn't that be an incredible moment? That's my prediction. I mean, that was a whole theme of her albums. I'm here for it. And Tim Walz will be putting on the saddle. Let me help you. Let me help you, young lady. Now, that would be the ultimate folksiness. Who knows? Who knows? But I predict

that there will be more celebrity star power behind the politics of late, all the way through the election. I think more people are going to be leaning in where they traditionally have leaned out these past couple years. And I'll be curious to see how much that rubs Trump the wrong way. The best moment for me of watching you doing this, you're doing a great job, was the guy from Black-ish, Anthony... Anthony Anderson. Anthony Anderson, saying he was going to be your baby daddy.

And your face, you were making a call out to your kids because they like him as an actor. And your face, how was that moment for you? Because you couldn't hide it. You're like, what? That was hysterical. First of all, I had just met him for the first time. He and I hit it off wildly. He was so funny. He was so witty. He was a natural. There's no writers for him, right? He is a natural comic. And I was telling you about how my kids are big fans. And he even did a video message for my kids later where he was like, hey, hey, Sydney and Adrian,

I'm your new daddy. And I thought, okay, let's go with the kids. I was like, dear, my husband, I said, listen, mommy's not coming home right now. I'll see you later. I mean, it was just fine. And my kids, they started screaming when they saw it. I gotta tell you, they're old enough and young enough not to understand what it meant when he said, I'm your new daddy. Oh my gosh, you. But your face said it all. And for a minute it was like, huh, interesting. Sorry, honey. I mean, you know, there are stranger questions at the considerum.

Well, you did a great job. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Before we go, I want to thank a few people who helped us out at the Democratic National Convention. Tammy Hadid, Mariel Saez, Jack Sullivan, Dylan Rose Geerlings, Becky Schatz, Melissa Giammo, Osman Noor, Courtney Flanzer, Lizzie Landau, Jane Meyer, and of course, the United States Secret Service, who let Scott in. Laura, that's the show. You are one of my favorite people.

Let's just. I had so much fun. Thank you for having me. I'm going to kill Scott. Speaking of which, you're my new baby daddy. I'm getting rid of Scott. Well, I already told you I was coming to your window. I think there's a whole moment happening. I don't know. Oh my god, this is a moment.

People will be talking. We'll be back on Tuesday with more PIV and another great guest co-host. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, who was on the ground at the DNC. Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Travis Larchuk. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Also, thanks to Drew Burrows, who was also with us and helped Thank you. nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.