Pivot - All Things Pivot MIA, California’s Lawsuit Against Tesla, and The Latest on the Trucker Convoy

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

Kara and Scott are in Miami! They talk through what’s to come at Pivot MIA, including interviews with Airbnb CEO, Brian Chesky, Chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs, David M. Solomon, and NYU Professor, Aswath Damodaran. Also, California’s lawsuit against Tesla for racist harassment of employees, and how the CIA may be spying on Americans. Send us your Listener Mail questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or via Yappa, at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher in Miami Beach, Florida, right near Scott,

who is downstairs. I'm actually broadcasting from my suite upstairs. How are you doing, Scott? Well, I don't get you. You come in for the photo op, and then you bust up to your suite, and I'm sitting here drinking bad coffee in a conference room that makes the hotel more charming by leaving it. So literally, you come and then you leave. Stop complaining. Stop complaining. Stop complaining. I got things to do. I got plans today.

I got to go visit Magic Leap. I got to go, you know, find some tech bros to tell me how much better it is than Miami. I've got a lot of things to do and then I'll be back for our party tonight.

Where is Magic Leap? I know it's in Florida, but where is it? It's in Plantation, Florida. I'm going to drive up there, go see the thing because I'm interviewing the CEO, Peggy Johnson, who I've known for a long time from Microsoft. So anyway, explain to people why we're here.

Why am I in Miami? I never come to Florida. What is the reason here? I like Miami quite a bit, though. It's our first Pivot Miami. We're bringing Pivot to the people. Yeah, pick up the energy, Scott. We have our big thing. It starts tonight with a party, and then tomorrow we have a day of events, and then the next day we have a half a day of events, correct?

Well, I wanted to get kind of – I realize this is going to be a busy few days for me, so I went to the living room alone, this bar, and had about eight drinks and spoke to a lovely woman named Jasma. Jasma. Daddy went deep in the paint last night. That's why my voice is deep and i'm a little bit slow i say yeah when i pick it up pick up the energy scott we are here live in person we just made a we just made a hologram which was very exciting to greet people and scott

showed off his tummy which was of course on brand douchebags we make a hologram i mean come on we're cliche of ourselves no not more than many of the people here in Florida. We made a hologram. No, I don't think so. One of our staff. Let's 3D print our family. One of our staff was greeted in the hotel by someone from Florida who was like, oh, you must be, they were wearing masks and the other people weren't, which is fine. Everyone can make their own choice. As Jared Paul says, everyone makes their own fucking choices. Anyway, so they were greeted like, oh, you must be from Miami.

Everyone else is over COVID. And they didn't know what to say. They were like, well, hope you don't get sick and oh, you must be from Miami. Everyone else is over COVID. And they didn't know what to say. They were like, well, hope you don't get sick and die, I think was the answer. But actually, what you should say is if you're from New York, you go, yeah, I'm from New York. And another one of our expressions is go fuck yourself. So anyway, it should be a fun time. There's a lot of situation going on here. But it'll be fun.

This will be fun. This will be really great. I'm excited to be here with you. Yeah, I'm excited. We've got a lot of – I recognize some people, a bunch of people got here early. It's spectacular. It's beautiful. Beautiful. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful location. Anyway, congratulations, by the way. I watched last night in my room when I got in, our flight was delayed because of ice in DC. The Rams? We got here. The Rams did it. What do you think? What do you think? It was super exciting. I mean, I was kind of, I mean, a little bit hoping

that Cincinnati would win, only because I think it would mean more to Cincinnati than L.A. L.A. doesn't really get that excited about much of anything. They did very well. They did very well. But it was a great game, and I watched it. One of those nice things, my sons are into it, so I watched it with my sons. That was nice.

Yeah, so congratulations. Go Rams. Roman Gabriel pajamas. Yeah, it was good. It was the last minute. It was at the last minute or two, right? It was a great game. It was a great game. It was a great game.

And, you know, of course, obviously, I think everyone should feel good about it. Everyone did a really good job. And that Bengals quarterback, even I think he's adorable. I'm sorry he didn't get to win at 23. He's probably going to have a hard life from now on. That's not a quarterback. That guy's my paper boy. I mean, it's amazing.

I mean, literally, he takes off his helmet. He looks like a kid. Yeah, he's really, he was great. Very talented. Everybody was good. Everyone was good. I think LA was happy to win. I think everybody liked the halftime, except for Charlie Kirk, who said it was sexual anarchy,

which, great. That's the name of my boy band, Sexual Anarchy. It's true. Everybody's band is named. God, what is wrong with these people? He took a break from burning books to talk about, to insult, you know, a very, you know, focus on rap and hip hop. Yeah, that was a little break. Just for a moment. A little racist break. Yeah. People forget, I mean, that in addition to being just a shit ton of fun, sex is also a key step to establishing a relationship.

And what far-right weirdos should be worried about is that people aren't having children or forming relationships. And I hate to break this to you, but 90% of people or 98% of people that live outside of Utah, like, that's a component to establishing a relationship. People aren't having enough sex. They need to get out there. They need to take risks. They need to have a few cocktails. Yeah, I agree. We are pro-sexual anarchy here at Pivot Miami

and everywhere else. We're sexual Bolsheviks. I know, it's crazy. Again, they took a break from burning books to do this, to make a comment. So there are crypto ads wherever, Larry David, LeBron James. Can you get over that?

Can you get over that? Larry David one was funny. Yeah, it was funny. It's a safe and easy way to get into crypto. I don't think so. And I'm never wrong about this stuff. There was ads for sports betting companies. I thought Meta ran an ad for the Metaverse about an animatronic dog who loses everything he loves in life

and then spends the rest of his days in VR pining for his youth. That was weird and strange. Someone should work on their marketing. Well, again, and I know I'm a little monodimensional here, but it all comes back to sex or specifically a lack of sex. And that is people are looking for dopa hits from their screens, whether it's gambling or whether it's crypto, which everyone's going to pretend is the future, but it's mostly about gambling or speculation. And that's, you know, I'm at that point in my life where everything I see is sort of indicates the underlying decay of our society. Oh, dear. Okay, is there anything here that doesn't involve DOPA or Get Rich Quick or a bunch of celebrities cashing in?

Which is their right? Although I will say, oh, my God, Halle Berry makes the most beautiful Cleopatra. Gosh, I can't stop staring at her. Beautiful. Yeah, she's really stop staring at her. Beautiful. Yeah, she's really, she did a nice ad. I thought some of the ads were good. I liked the Joneses, Keeping Up with the Joneses. I thought that was adorable.

Jonas? Yeah, it's Keeping Up with the Joneses now. Oh, who won the ad? Come on. There was one ad that bested all of them. Which one? Salesforce. Not that it had anything to do with CRM software.

Mark Benioff, congratulations. That was genius. So while the others look to the metaverse and mars let's stay here and restore ours yeah it's time to blaze our trail because the new frontier it ain't rocket science it's right here. We're going to talk about that. And we're going to take a listener question about Facebook and AI. Just first, the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor is open again after police removed the last held I was protesting. It wasn't that many people, which was amazing. But they certainly had an outsized presence on social media everywhere else. They are continuing in Ottawa. I think they're going to probably lose the patience of regular people.

They've made their point. I would have moved on from them. I'm not sure what they're holding out for except being the most annoying people on earth. I think there's a point where these things shift into not a good thing. But anyway, auto manufacturers are happy the bridge blockade. I think they'll probably, you know, peter out, which is how these things tend to do. It's sort of, someone said it was a long-running January 6th in Ottawa. Like, it kept going. But they're not doing any favors themselves with the Nazi flags and the

behavior they have. But, you know, whatever. I think Canadians will have enough of them pretty now, pretty much soon. But we'll see. I don't know. I like how Rand Paul weighed in and said he thought that he supports the truckers. I'm all for it. Civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is a time-honored tradition

in our country, from slavery to civil rights to you name it. Peaceful protest, clog things up. twice in his own home. He was beat up by his neighbor and then some, he had some fundraiser over and I mean, you get the sense this guy's like not that likable. Anyway, I don't know how I got him around Paul, but what I don't understand is why don't they just use the same technology they have when you're going too fast in Germany or you're in the express lane you're not supposed to be. Why don't they use the same sort of technology to just take photos of all the license plates and start fining the owners of the trucks? I don't get it. Anyways, I don't support. I think this is a form of economic.

I don't know what the term is. I don't want to call it terrorism because that's a bit of a leap. But I don't stand with the truckers. I don't get this. What do you think, Kara? I don't get it. I think there's a point to be made and a protest is fine.

I'm always for protests, typically. But I think they've taken it too far, as always. So did a lot, you know, the one in Occupy,

Wall Street, actually, that was okay. I think they tend to overthink their power and then they overdo it and then they become what they're decrying

in some weird way. You know, they're just, they're having a party. That's what it looks like to me. And at other people's expense. And whatever, they look like children at this point. They can make, you can make your point.

And I think it's also been hijacked by a lot of other forces. So, you know, typical, typical. Anyway, it's good news for auto manufacturers and the bridge bucket. It was hard because one of the stories was saying that like, so they put the air out of their tires and then broke their oil lines. And the people in charge of towing trucks wouldn't do it because these are their clients. So that was an interesting thing. I mean, they're smart in that regard and they're super organized. And apparently a lot of ex-military people and ex-police were running the show.

Okay, great. Good for you. Anyway, speaking of auto manufacturing troubles, Tesla faces a lawsuit from the state of California. Workers face racist harassment. The department's Fair Employment and Housing says that black Tesla workers were assigned more physically demanding work. If you read it, it's pretty bad. Tesla is saying these claims are not factual. We'll see what happens. They said it's a result of a three-year investigation. Of course, he's moved to Texas. We'll see where this thing comes out it's a result of a three-year investigation. Of course, he's moved to Texas.

We'll see where this thing comes out. They're definitely going to fight it hard, for sure. But a lot of these places are facing sort of workplace issues, as is not a big shock in any case. We'll see where it comes out. Has anyone done any reporting here, though? This is one of those things where, you know, stuff's so ugly, and I kind of just think we'll let the law do its work and let the investigators and the discovery do their do their work it is you know you hate to politicize this but it's impossible not to with a company that just stuck up their middle finger to california and they i think they were careful to point out that this is a non this is a three-year-old investigation um you know, this stuff is just so, and then you think, okay, it's kind of clickbaity because

anything with Tesla is clickbaity. Has there been any good reporting? There's been a little bit. There's been a little bit. There's been a little bit. But I think we'll see in the court and how it comes out in terms of how it's going. But there has been some reporting. I think, you know, Elon obviously had the run-in over COVID with California. It's not a great relationship. He's left.

He wants to move stuff. So, we'll see. I mean, to read it is really disturbing. So, and I think these people are not lying, the people who are testifying. So, we'll see where this goes. But Tesla is saying this is just not accurate. It was old, either some of it was old, some of it happened and then they fixed it, et cetera, et cetera. You know, I think it's been an ongoing issue at a lot of these auto firms. Other things in the news,

the CIA might be spying on Americans according to a recently declassified letter from two senators on the Intelligence Committee. This comes, speaking of zero surprise, Senators Wyden and Hyrek are requesting information about the CIA program meant to target foreign governments and individuals because it also may be collecting information about Americans. You know, after Snowden, I'm not surprised by anything. Yeah, we're on different sides of this one. I feel that, I mean, if you think about it, since the Civil War, you know, a couple of submarines spotted off the Pacific coast, obviously the attacks on 9-11.

We just haven't incurred the same sort of damage or bloodshed. America's really never been, had like a long-term sustained attack on our soil. And I think that Americans, I think Americans take for granted and don't appreciate, I think we take for granted our freedoms and how many people sacrifice to maintain those freedoms. And I don't think people appreciate just how many well-funded and organized and intelligent organizations and individuals absolutely want to disrupt our way of life. And I'm kind of down with a pretty broad license. I know a lot of people in our security apparatus. I find in general, they're very good people who are patriotic. What I'd like to see, what I always

want to see is a lot of doffle oversight by judges, but I'm kind of on the side of Carrie and Homeland and that it's, I want to give her the tools and the technology to fight the bad guys. So I tend to err on the side of, I think it's easy to be a purist around privacy around this stuff and not acknowledge just what a dangerous world it is. I also think it's very dangerous to give government these kind of tools. It never leads to good things, ultimately.

And I get the idea. You know, it's sort of, you're kind of expressing the Dick Cheney school of- I'll at least see good things every day, Tara. We haven't been attacked. I get it. I'm aware.

I'm aware that it's a mean world. But, you know, Dick Cheney attitude, which is what he did, you know, and the revelations were pretty like, wow. They're really, once they get these tools in their hands, they use them, and then you don't know what they use them. And then guess what? You have another, a smart Trump, just not good. And, you know, they'll blow past every single thing to spy on people and use it for all kinds, you know, just like, I'm not interested in China. I don't think they're any better. Yeah.

A while ago, the CIA said they would never physically harm or assassinate a U.S. citizen, regardless of what they have done. They have, I mean, but there's a lot of nuance here. I don't think enhanced interrogation techniques, which was just Latin for torture, should be allowed. I think that's a stain on our moral fiber and our social contract we have as Americans. But when Obama shows up to the summits, and this kind of was exposed, and he knows what everyone's, because of listening devices and the good work of our security apparatus, he knows what the Chinese and the Brazilians are going to ask for. I got to be honest. I'm down with that. I don't, I think they do the same to us. And I like having the best security apparatus in the world.

Yeah. All right. Well, I think it's, I think we've got to have our judges and courts involved because accountability, it's just, I guess I've watched too many Mission Impossibles, except I'm one of these, I have genre, and I assume they're watching everything. I assume I'm being followed. Even unimportant people like you and I, I think it's just. Well, you're right. It's without your. You're right.

The question is, as you referenced, do we have thoughtful laws and judges that ensure you can't go on fishing expeditions? And that unless there's evidence of some sort. I mean, I don't even think they should be able to collect this data and use it as evidence for the majority of crimes. I'm talking about national security. All right. Well, yeah, but they use that for everything. They use that as a fig leaf for everything. I was sort of down with Apple during the whole James Comey fight that they had.

That was our first big tiff as a couple. Do you remember that? Was it tiff? Was it? No, I don't remember. You started angry texting me late at night, which is not the kind of text I want to get late at night. Just FYI.

Angry text. About James Comey and Apple? Well, you know, just, you know what? They have an FBI. They can figure it out. They don't need to open some couple's cell phone. Figure it out. You mean terrorists who kill 17 people and might be part of a broader attack?

They can figure it out without Apple exposing the most of people in America. They can do it. I'm sorry, I'm on Apple. I don't think that's what the FBI was asking for. But anyways, let's not revisit it. I'm leaving Miami. Let's not revisit it. I fired my secretary.

It was a short-term thing. Get over it. Let's move on. For the children, let's move on. Okay, let's get back to our... She seduced me. I'm the victim. You're so wrong.

Oh my God, you're such a fascist. I'm the victim. Anyway, let's get back to our first. She seduced me. I'm the victim. You're so wrong. Oh, my God. You're such a fascist. I'm the victim. Anyway, let's get to our big story. Our most influential people in tech and business are in Miami this week for Pivot MIA, and Scott Galloway is also here. That's right. So, what do you think? How are you feeling about this?

How are you feeling besides your hangover? About Pivot Miami? How do you feel about this first thing are you feeling besides your hangover? About Pivot Miami? How do you feel about this first thing? Yeah, how are you feeling? About the interviews? Who are you most interested in? I'll be honest, I'm a little bit nervous. This is kind of your gig.

You've done a lot of this. Yeah, I'm a little nervous. I woke up last night. This is happening to me more and more. What are you nervous about? I've been waking up in the middle of the night like anxious, just like worried about shit. Oh, it's because of this. It is.

I spoke at a conference on Thursday. And I sometimes, I know this is going to come as a huge shock to you, but sometimes I don't read the room when I offend people. And I really offended the people. I don't even want to say it because they're good people and I fucked up. And I'm not sure. And sometimes I overestimate how much I offended. I have an inability to read the room. And the problem is as you get older, you become more empathetic, which is both a good and a bad thing.

But I literally, like a couple times in the last month, I wake up in the middle of the night just anxious about something. No, dear. And that happened to me last night. No. Hold me, Kara. I'm always nervous. I've done 20 codes. This is going to be my 20th in September. I get nervous before and unhappy before it, dear. You know, that happened to me last night. No. Hold me, Kara. I'm always nervous. I've done 20 codes. This is going to be my 20th in September.

I get nervous before and unhappy before, too. It's just, you just never know, and you don't know. It's always like, it's a thing about you. Like, do they like me, essentially? You know, not for me. I don't really give a fuck. But it still is hard. And we have a great staff working on it.

It's going to be great. You know, we're entrepreneurs, and this is the way it goes. This is, we put ourselves out there, and that's how you should think about it. You know, this is a great point, and there's a learning here, and that is entrepreneurs, real estate professionals and entrepreneurs are the wealthiest people in our society, and wealth is a function of ROI, and ROI is a function of the risk you take. And I always tell people that the reason why entrepreneurs are, reason why entrepreneurs can garner such incredible wealth and upside if it's successful is that the majority of people just aren't willing to take the risk of public failure. And that's what throwing an event is. If this doesn't work, if nobody shows up, if it sucks, it's public failure. The majority of

failures are private in relationships or if you invest in Solano and it goes down 90%, it's not public that you're an idiot and you bought Robinhood at 60 bucks and now it's at nine or whatever. Doing an event, starting a business, or even if you will, writing a book or writing an article, you're kind of subjecting yourself to the greatest risk and that is public failure. That's why the upside is so great if it works. Look what you've built the code. Yeah. It's hard to do events, but this is going to be... I'm glad we're here. I'm glad we're doing it in person. The first one is always hard, Scott, as you may know that, but it's going to be great. So if you practice your presentation, you're going to do a presentation. Do you have your entrance music? What's the deal? no then i was i was the night before i get my team together and we're up to like two or three in the morning going through slides and

trying to find data and all that stuff i just want to go back to our previous point because i do think there's a lesson here what i what i tell you young people i'm telling you nothing really wonderful in your life professionally or personally will happen unless you subject yourself to an uncomfortable risk um And that is, you know, expressing your emotions, taking risks with relationships, taking risks with business. If you don't take a really uncomfortable risk on a regular basis, you're never going to have outsized returns. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. It's true. Or else it'll just not work. I mean, I sometimes tell that to people, like, don't worry about it. It's just going to work or not.

But I have to say, it looks beautiful. The staff has worked really hard. I'm always surprised by things that I didn't. It really looks amazing. The schedule is great. We have all these great speakers. We're trying to do very strong. Who are you most excited about?

Oh, everybody. I like the whole thing. I think it's very interesting. I'm super excited for Carolyn Spiegel. Oh, everybody. I like the whole thing. I think it's very interesting. I'm super excited for Carolyn Spiegel. Oh, porn audio. Doesn't that seem obvious now? Isaiah Jackson, Brandon Buchanan, and Cleve Messidor talking about where we're going. Isaiah Jackson, of course, wrote Bitcoin and Black America. And he has a show, a co-host of The Gentleman of Crypto. I kind of like that.

We have David Solomon, head of Goldman Sachs, Meredith Levian. So a lot. Jonathan Haidt. We've got tons of people. And then, of course, Brian Chesky, who's the CEO of Airbnb. I'm excited to talk to him. I always like, well, you and I are going to do that together. We have the mayor of Miami-Dade County, Daniela Levine-Cava.

No, he's coming. He's going to open it. But we're going to talk about what Miami is going to do from a climate point of view. So it's going to be cool. What is it going to do? We're all going to move to fucking Tampa. That's what we're going to do. Yeah, that's exactly right.

What do you think we're going to do? Push back the ocean? We have a panel with the two, Parler and Getter, the two conservative social media sites. And Casey Newton's going to do that one. And it's going to be fun. It's going to be great. So what is your entrance music? What is your entrance music going to be? I always do Daft Punk or 80s music.

Oh, do you? Maybe a little Tom Petty. Well, I think we're very excited. Hello, white guy born in the 60s. I think it'll be interesting. I think it'll be super interesting. I think it's a really solidly good program. It's here in Miami.

I think I'm very excited. I am anxious. I really am anxious lately. I don't know what the fuck is going on with me. You are. Like, you know, Dr. Jeff Swisher is here. He could give you some drugs. Well, did he bring his prescription pad?

That's all I care about. I'm sure he could help you out. I'm sure he's caring. I'm interviewing him for my CNN show. I know, I know. How ridiculous is that? He's very excited. Not that we're desperate.

We're interviewing your family for CNN now. Okay, if you're not with us in Miami, don't worry. We'll post some of the sessions in this feed in the weeks to come. We want to share it as much as possible. Of course, we'll talk and write about it and et cetera. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll take a listener question about artificial

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time. So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other. Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Carpet in the bathroom. Like, why? In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question.

You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. Hey, Scott. Hey, Kara. This is Brad. I'm a senior at UMass Amherst. I'm studying electrical engineering, but focusing on AI. Facebook stock has obviously been tumbling and their social media players might be stumbling right now, but they have one of the best AI divisions. And I was wondering if they maybe have a play where they could pivot into AI rather than just social media. Thank you. Well, that's interesting. Obviously, they have one of the best. Amazon, Google, probably higher than anybody. Apple, they all have very strong AI divisions. I think AI is part of their businesses, right? I think that's really whatever their business is, whether it's selling

or devices and this and that. They've had an in-house AI research lab since 2013. They have an AI protocol called PyTorch. It's an open source protocol, which is unusual for Facebook. So, you know, people are, Mark has always counted on algorithms and AI to solve the problems of social media. It hasn't worked yet. So, I don't know. What do you think, Scott? I think it's, sure, sure, it's going to be part of their business. Yeah, they use it to differentiate or make their advertising more relevant or targeted or to figure out that you're going to watch Euphoria Episode 3 and 321. So I think they probably incorporate all sorts of AI. as well as Amazon, is the notion that, I mean, it's just, and why I think Amazon's a better long-term investment, is that what Amazon's been able to do that Facebook hasn't, what the young

man is referring to, is that if Facebook were to develop really strong AI tools and then start leasing them out in a B2B fashion, and that's the only company that's been able to pull that off, it doesn't get enough attention, is Amazon. And by the way, Amazon's rolling out healthcare. They've said, I mean, Amazon takes their biggest expense lines and says, okay, how do we get really good at it internally? How do we get really good at data storage? How do we get really good at media? How do we get really good at healthcare for our own employees? And then once we get really good at it, we're going to start renting it out to other corporations and turn it into a revenue center. So the idea that Facebook

would get good enough at AI to begin leasing it out on a B2B basis to other platforms, they would probably, I think, go first to say, any website, we're going to socialize. We're going to incorporate social components and be the back end such that you can make your B2B trucking parts site and community more social, if you will. But no one has been able to do that to a fraction of the extent of Amazon. I think it's, you know, they're trying to go to lots of businesses. You know, they're trying to move out of their business, their main business, because it's so troubled and moving to others. But social media is still, and advertising still, is the center of everything there.

And they have to make it better and easier to use and more sticky with people, and they'll be using those techniques, the AI techniques, forever, I think. I think it's difficult. Farhad Manjoo had an interesting column today about, which I've said a million times, actually, that one of the problems is they just aren't innovative as a company. And that's their biggest problem. The stock has

remained stubbornly low, which is interesting given how much money they make, right? Had you said it was a buying opportunity, Facebook, at this point? I think you did, correct? I want to be clear. I don't have a conviction around it. Not that that means anything. I had conviction on Alibaba at 180, and I think it's at 120. But Facebook, by most traditional metrics, given the fact it's still growing, given the fact it's core business, literally just spews cash, looks traditionally inexpensive relative to where it usually is. It's down 34% in the past month, down 40% over the past six months. Year to date, they're down 35%. One year, they're down 20%.

I think most, and in five years, they're up 63%. But still, they lost a lot of ground. They're down again today. I'm not sure why it's sticking, continuing to stick in the same place while other tech companies do a lot better. But I think most people in the Wall Street are nervous right now about a reckoning. I think that is so why. But as a multiple of revenues, I think Facebook now trades about the same multiple on revenues as Twitter.

And as much upside as Twitter has, which I think it does, Facebook is just a juggernaut. Yeah. A much better business than Twitter. And I think even Snap right now is trading at a higher multiple owner revenues than Facebook. So, Facebook feels, at this point, it's trading like what feels like a more mature company. And Facebook is still a growth company. It didn't grow its active users, but it's still, its top line revenues are still, the majority of Fortune 500 companies, quite frankly, would pray for Facebook's business problems. They wouldn't pray for their scrutiny or some of the bigger issues they're facing.

But it's still, if you just look at the underlying economics, margin power, market domination, it's an incredible business. Still, Snap was at a high of 83 at the end of September. Now it's down quite a bit to 41. It's half, essentially. But it's up now. It's been up over the past month quite a bit, 8%. Six months, it's down 43%. But you're right.

It's interesting because I think there's something going on with Facebook that people don't want to jump right in. Obviously, Apple is doing great. It's at all these highs that they're hitting. Today, it's at 169. It's not as high as it's been over the past year, but it's still up over the past month, over the past, you know, actually, over the past month, it's down a little bit. But over the past six months, it's up 12%.

Anyway, it's an interesting time. It's an interesting time. We'll see what happens to that company. And Zuckerberg's going to be, Anyway, it's an interesting time. It's an interesting time. We'll see what happens to that company. And Zuckerberg's going to be, it'll be interesting to see where he comes out on it. By the way, has anyone seen Sheryl Sandberg? Do you speak to her? Where did she go? I have not.

I have not. I'm not reaching out to her. But I'm sure she'd respond if I reached out to her. But nobody has. Yeah, she sort of disappeared in the background. She has indeed. She came out for a little bit and then went right back, if you remember. There was a point where she was talking about stuff and then it didn't go well kind of thing.

I think it's best to keep your head down over there at Facebook. Anyway, if you've got a question about tech business or just want some good advice, just send it to us. Go to nymag.com slash pivot or call us at 855-51-PIVOT to submit a question for the show. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply.

Details at Fizz.ca. Okay, Scott, give us some wins and fails. And it can't be your conference, your first conference that you are helming. It can't be that. You've got to, like, pick it up. Give us your wins and fails. You really should be more thoughtful about my emotions. I express my vulnerability

to you and you jab. I'm sorry, Scott. I hope the best for you. Thoughts and prayers. My win, like everyone else who spent time in New York, I'm watching Inventing Anna, I think it's called. Yeah, the Delvite.

Fantastic actress from Ozarks. I don't know whoing Anna, I think it's called. Yeah, the Delvite. Fantastic actress from Ozarks. I don't know who the actress is, but it's based on Jess. Boy, it's really compelling television. And B, I've been thinking a lot about our laws, and we tend to think, all right, jury of your peers, you're convicted, you're guilty, that's what's right. But I think I've been thinking a lot about, okay, well, what are our laws and who are they protecting? And granted, I'm only two episodes in. But it strikes me that the corporations and rich people just get too much protection.

And everybody else is sort of it's the Wild West. And this is another example. I mean, granted, this is a dramatization. But it strikes me that she took money, and I'm convinced that the majority of romantic relationships are basically a transaction. It's just a function of the cadence and the currency. Across, the law has decided we need to protect those vulnerable secretaries of state and Rupert Murdoch and Larry Ellison. And then, you know, Americans with kids addicted to opiates or have kids with eating disorders because of the media they're streamed with algorithms that are mendacious. You know, hey, folks, you're on your own. And I think this is just another evidence.

I don't know what happens, but I know she ended up in jail. I actually think she's in jail now. And I'm like, okay, she probably stole money from rich people in hotels. So now she's in jail. Anyway, the long-winded way of saying the win for me is Inventing Anna. I think it's really well done. It's total New York porn. You get to see all this great fashion and cool travel and everything. It's also by Shonda Rhimes.

My loss. It's just Shonda Rhimes is doing it for Netflix. Again, showing a real talent for power, stories about power. I think she's really, and then it's based on a story, I think by Jessica Pressler, who's working with her,

who is a friend of mine who's wonderful. And I don't know. I think you're right. I haven't seen it yet, but the stories were amazing. The stories were absolutely riveting at the time, so I'm excited to watch it. Some people like it and some people don't.

It's still a juicy story and it's Julia Garner who's playing Anna Delvey, just so you know. Yeah, she's great. She's really a wonderful actress. My loss, if you can call it a loss, I so you know. Yeah, she's great. She's really a wonderful actress. My loss, if you can call it a loss, I'm fitting it into loss, is I found this thread from this young man on Twitter named Jacob Conger, who looked at recent IPOs of venture-backed software companies. And it's really interesting, Kara, and we're seeing this play out pretty violently.

There were 60 venture-backed software and tech companies that went public in 2021. 49 were IPOs, six were direct listings, and five were SPACs. And of those 60, guess how many are below their IPO price? Oh, all of them? 52. And many of them are even down. I mean, only eight of them are above their IPO price. And you have companies like, I mean, it's just nuts. Oscar Health off 84%, Rent the Runway off 76%, Clover off 73%. I mean, these have Robinhood off 61%. Couldn't have been a nicer group of people. But I mean, you're seeing what's going to happen

here. And essentially, the tail that wags the dog here is the public markets, because venture investment basically looks forward to, all right, if this is a successful company, what will our liquid exit be in the public markets? And when you see this kind of drawdown in the public markets, it means for the rest of 2022, probably in third and fourth quarter, we're going to start to see a lot of down rounds in the private markets. And I was talking to a partner in a venture capital firm just last week and was saying that their latest vintage fund of growth is all underwater. So you're about to see a lot of articles on how some fairly well-known unicorns are going

to be forced to raise money in something no young entrepreneur has any experience with, and unfortunately have a lot of experience with this from the late 90s and mostly the early 2000s. Money being thrown at them and then not, right? Right. Oh my God, a down round. Okay, red envelope. We raised money, pre-money of 120 million, and within nine months, we were raising money at $60. And we had letter, you know, E-Gald Series A, Series B. And how did that feel, Scott?

How did that feel? It felt like I was waking up in the middle of the night in a strange Miami hotel with no prostitute but a lot of anxiety. That's what it felt like, Carol. So put some perspective. That was something to really be anxious about. It didn't feel good. Compare them. Compare your anxiety.

I only take prostitutes and Shiba Inu now. Okay. You take Shiba Inu? Hello. What do you think? Patrick? Patrick. Okay.

All right. Okay. That's it. All right. Okay. So that's a good one. Okay. That's interesting.

That's an interesting question. We should probably bring up this issue. We're going to see a lot of down rounds. Oh, my gosh. Because here in Miami, they're all like, it's all up and to the right you know mayor suarez the other mayor who's on stage remember the miami coin yeah and he put out a tweet he put out a tweet saying that it was getting faster adoption than bitcoin it's off 80 or 85 percent yeah we'll ask him and all these guys in the mayor the mayor of new york who took his pay in bitcoin yeah i think after taxes he's gonna get about i mean it's just hilarious well

no it's not hilarious it's not hilarious um but it's you know i'm still it's fine this is what happens this is what happens right i like this is the way it goes they go up and that's the attitude you should have i have a. I have a fail. Speaking of shows, The Gilded Age, I really think it's terrible. I just think it's terrible. Is this with Cynthia Dixon? There's all kinds of people in it. The costumes are beautiful.

It's essentially old money versus new money in New York. And it should be a lot more enjoyable than it is. It's really not. And the first scene was someone didn't show up to someone's party, is. It's really not. And it's, you know, the first scene was someone didn't show up to someone's party, essentially. And I just don't like it. It's just not well done. It's by the guy who did Downton Abbey

and Downton Abbey was delicious. This is not delicious. Wonderful. This is just undelicious. It's the opposite of delicious. I can no longer support Cynthia Nixon. The way she treats Stephen and just like that. She becomes a lesbian.

That's fine by me. Miranda is so selfish and I really, it's like, it's like I could never watch an Eric Roberts movie after Star 80. He did such an amazing job

portraying a homicidal maniac. Yeah, he was really good. I could never watch anything with him. That was a terrific movie. I am holding, I can't believe you're bringing that movie up.

I am holding Miranda responsible in other mediums. Okay, in any case, it's not good. I was hoping it would be good. Not good. Also, the J case, it's not good. I was hoping it would be good. Not good. Also, the J-Lo movie with Owen Wilson.

Marry Me. Do not marry that movie. Didn't they make that movie like seven times already? Yes. I like, go watch the wedding. Isn't that called The Wedding Planner? Go watch Wedding Planner. Go watch Made in America.

They're delightful. This is undelightful. Although she's adorable throughout. No. She's adorable. I'm sorry. Her cinematic peak was Anaconda. Okay.

I thought she's been a great actress in many things. I forget the name of that one she was in where she played a stripper. It was fantastic. Anyway, this is not good. You just liked it because it was a bunch of white, heterosexual guys being drugged and ripped off. Yeah, I don't mind that.

That's just another Tuesday for Scott Galloway. And my win was the halftime show. I thought it was great. First time my kids liked it. Like, it was great. Yeah, people, it got rave reviews. It was great. It was really well done.

By the way, I loved the J-Lo one many years ago. I think it was maybe two years ago. Anyway, I thought it was great. I thought it was well done. I loved every single person in it. I thought they were fun. It was funny. It's been all downhill since Celine Dion. That's all I'll say. That's true. Boom, mic drop. That thought it was well done. I loved every single person in it. I thought they were fun. It was funny. It's been all downhill since Celine Dion.

That's all I'll say. That's true. Boom, mic drop. That's true. All right. So anyway, it was great. I'm taking residence in Vegas. And I love how-

At some point, I want to say that. All these pearls- Kara, I'm taking residence up in Vegas. Okay. All right. Excellent. All right. So we are ready to go, Scott.

We'll be back on Friday with more Pivot, not with Scott. He's going to be nursing his sorrows in Tulum, Mexico, I guess. Hello, $1,400 hut. Okay. We're going to unpack. You're so ridiculous down there. I'm literally a cliche. I'm a cliche. I'm going back to DC to be with my lovely family. They're all here. What do you mean you're going back to DC? I've seen all of them. No, they're not. No, Amanda's at home on Valentine's Day.

I sent her beautiful flowers and stuff, so. It's Valentine's Day? Yes. Shit. I noticed you didn't get me a Valentine, but that's okay, Scott. It's okay. All right. Yeah.

I'll get you some Valentines. All right. It's going to be great, Scott. Don't worry. Daddy came to play. Read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jatot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Neil Silverio. Make sure you subscribe

to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Nothing really wonderful will ever happen to you professionally or personally unless you take an uncomfortable risk.