Pivot - Amazon's OpenAI Deal, Netflix Explores Warner Bros. Bid, and Elon's Flying Car

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Kara and Scott discuss the ongoing government shutdown, and who's really paying the price. Then, Netflix is reportedly exploring a bid for Warner Bros. Discovery. Plus, the NYC mayoral race, the latest earnings from Apple and Amazon, and Elon says a flying Tesla demo is coming soon. We're going on tour! Get tickets at pivottour.com Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠.Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠.Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠.Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know those recruiter text you get, the ones offering you a ton of money for basically no work. This pay is $2,000. You'll receive $720. You know it's a scam. But ever wonder what would happen if you actually responded? This is where, if I wasn't going into this, eyes wide open, this is probably where like the red flag starts showing up. This week on Explain It to Me, where those texts come from, and where they just might take you. New episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts.

Megan Rapino here. The WMBA season is over. But on a touch more, we're still playing games. We're checking out the tug of war between the players and the league as the CBA is about to expire while five teams play a round of musical chairs to fill their empty head coaching slots. And we've got Valkyrie's head coach Natalie Nacase on the show to talk about her epic first season with the Valkyries

and what it's like to play and coach in Ball Hall. Check out the latest episode of A Touchmore Wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube. What did New York City mayoral candidate Zerun Mamdani and Donald Trump have in common? More than you think. They're not trying to calibrate for the center and they're not trying to reflect the party as it is.

I'm Prit Bharara. And this week, political journalist as Ted Herndon joins me to discuss Mamdani's rise how political reporting keeps pace with a shifting media landscape and what truly motivates voters. The episode is out now. Search and follow. Stay tuned with Preet, wherever you get your podcasts. You're actually a, you know, a decent kind of mediocre, maybe good interviewer.

You're actually okay. You're, you know, you're getting there. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and now I must sing to Scott Gell. Elway on his birthday. No. Yes.

Yes, yes. Now, happy birthday to you. You live in a zoo. You look like a monkey because you're wearing a monkey's suit. And you act like one, two. When did we get so old, Kara? What happened? I don't know, Scott.

You look good, though. You have a suit on because I understand you went on much of television today. I was on Morning Joe, then... The Today Show, and I just got back from The View, where I, basically, they asked me about my father and I started crying in front of an audience. Oh, that's perfect. Yeah. With all the ladies, right?

God. Yeah. Savannah Guthrie wrote me a lovely. Oh, she loves you. She said Scott Galloway for President. She loves you. Yeah, I was on with her and Craig. Craig.

Handsome Craig. Yeah, handsome Craig. And she looks great. Yeah. She's a nice person. Yeah, she's, she's, she's, she's, seems actually, she's a real woman of faith, and I like the way she positions her faith. I think it's really... I interviewed her about that when her book...

I remember that, yeah, but this is, I'm a total media whore this morning. I'm absolutely everywhere. Yeah, so that's good, though. Where's usually I'm just a hoar? You're just a hoar. Just a hoar. How was morning, Joe? Did you... Did you flirt with the two of them? I, well, they were remote. I guess they're down in Florida somewhere. Oh, they just don't leave their home now. Okay. Yeah, they don't leave their They roll out of bed and roll in. But you know what? They've always been, you know, how some shows, you know, they just want you to win?

Yeah. That's what Morning Joe is for me. Joe and Mika always, like, try to set me up for success. And so I really like it there. And plus, they always make me somehow. They make me look less awful. I, like, look reasonable in that show. This is how vain I am.

I think about what shows made me look the best. But I love, I would say, of all of the things I go on, I think Mars number one, because I find him, I find that show just so challenging and interesting the format. The Morning Joe for me is really, I think they do a great job with the co-aggot. I mean, the bottom line is between the Morning Joe, the View, the Today Show. As much as I criticize TV, when you see just how much activity is going on behind the scenes, they do, they give great TV. They do. They do. And let me tell you, let me give you information. They sell fucking books. I got to say, after the view, my book sales rocketed of more than Bill Maher and The View, I would say, was, and today's show.

Yeah, and I was on with Fareed yesterday. Oh, good. So, yeah, I'm everywhere. You're really worried up. You really are. I'm like AOL in the 90s. You stick your hand into a cereal box. You're going to pull out a little dog. Little dog.

Let me ask you a question. How was the View ladies? Were they nice to you? Did they stroke you after you cried? Or did Whoopi say, get the fuck out of it? It was my second time. They've always been really lovely to me. It was Anna Navarro, Whoopi, obviously.

Alyssa Farah, who unfortunately is pregnant, because I was thinking there was a shot that she would leave her husband for me. No, she's not. I didn't know that. That doesn't seem to be going very well. Yeah. And then Sonny, who's...

Sunny Hospital. Who looks 18, and she has a son who's a doctor. Yeah, yeah. And she wanted advice. She's saying, I'm going to give your book to my son. I'm like, oh, really, what's he doing? It's like, well, he's a Harvard-educated doctor. I'm like, no, he needs to mentor me.

He needs to write a book and I'll read it. Like, he's just fine. He's track. He's tracking. That's good. But, yeah, they couldn't be. Who's next? What's your next thing besides our pivot tour coming up?

We've got one more show before at Pivot Tour. Oh, my God. I'm on, you and I for a week. Come on, I'm on Anderson Cooper tonight. I'm on MSNBC tomorrow. Yeah. I'm a mayor, you know, I'm Christian Amunthpur tomorrow. Oh, good.

I'm everywhere. Are you? Good. It's going to be too much, Scott. May I just say, how is your birthday going? The reason I sang is because I thought about playing the Stevie Wonder song, but YouTube dings us when we put. put music up.

Oh, yeah. I'm being very genuine. I don't like my birthday. I don't. I don't enjoy it. I don't want to be reminded my age. Oh, well. I don't.

I don't like gifts. I don't. I would rather, if I could delete anything, you know how we have those delete me ads? What we need is an app called delete birthday, where everybody forgets you actually have birthdays. Oh, now I sent you that edible arrangement. No, I didn't. Actually, I'm shocked. In one of the many times you stayed here, you haven't arranged my edibles.

I know. He'll turn a phrase there. I saw it, but I actually have done that. I looked through them at length one night when I was bored. God. I didn't take any of them just so, you know. Yeah, you need to start. I know, but I just was interested in them.

And I looked them up and I googled all of them and everything. Did you? Yeah. Is that part of the problem? My psychotic breaks? No, not at all. Not at all. Well, I am glad you're here another year.

Well, thank you for that. I appreciate that. You look very nice, too. You're a little hunched over. Sit up straight with that. suit on. Sorry. There you go. All right. Yeah. Looking nice. That's your go-to suit, isn't it? That's your go-to outfit. Yeah. No, you know what's funny is I've consistently, I have probably, I don't know, a dozen suits. I like the idea of suits and then I find one I like and I wear the same thing over and over.

You look very mom-doney right now. He loves a suit. He owns a birthday. Do you really want to bring that? That's my birthday. I'm just saying, come on, he wears a suit. He shows respect for people. I like I think he's a good-looking guy. He's, and he wears a suit, though. It shows respect. I think the learning, I keep getting calls from Democrats. What do you think of it on my... The Democrats can take a lot from his campaign.

I'll give him this. You know, I think you and I have a little bit different on a different views on his policies. I don't think there's any denying that the Democrats can learn a lot from his campaign. Well, we'll see. If he does, we'll see. You never know. People can surprise you on lots of ways. I think he seems to have talked to a lot more people than you think.

I think he's very similar to AOC, who has pivoted much more to the center than... Is that right of AOC? Yes, 100%. I think they learn. They want to be in position. Same thing with Marjorie Taylor Green. Like, they're all pivoting in a way that makes them... Are you kind of suspicious of MTG, though?

I'm just not sure I buy it. I think she likes the attention and she's getting a lot of attention. She's doing a good job at getting it, I'll tell you that. Well, someone asked me here to leave. Jewish space lasers, yes. Someone asked me to the leader of the Democratic Party was, and I said, Marjorie Taylor Green. She's been, but, yeah, it'll be, look, people have asked me,

well, what happens if he wins? I mean, if he wins, nothing. First off, I'm not a New York resident, but if he wins, like any candidate that wins, to be, I think, a good American, you have an obligation to be as supportive as possible and let them prove you wrong. Correct.

And be supportive, and, and let their actions speak, you have to open up to the possibility that maybe your preconceived notions that they were a terrible person because you get so caught up in the emotion of politics, give them the benefit of the doubt, and rally behind them for a certain amount of time

and let them, you know, have them... Let's see how he does. Let them have their honeymoon. So, and by the way, I'm saying this as if it's a foregone conclusion, it's really interesting there are these ads on these bus shelters in Manhattan showing the statistical probability

of their win from Kalshi. It's a great ad campaign. It shows Mondami at 92%, or 93, and Cuomo at 8, and they're on bus shelters everywhere, and it says Cali Market. And you don't even realize it's an ad. It's such a brilliant ad because it shows you don't have your screen up, it doesn't look like an ad, it's information, and what you realize is that Calci is this place that people are going to now to help predict the future. It's the best branding campaign I've seen a while. And Pauly Market,

Kaucian Polymarket. Yeah, I think that'll be, you know, the only good thing, I got to say, two, one bad thing, one good thing about that. I think he's definitely

going to win. And, well, let's just wait and see what he does. I have, we'll see. I think that's fair. Wait and see. Wait and see.

And the second thing, and he has a lot of good ideas. Some are, is good, some are good. Like, let's see. He's fresh, right? That's the key thing. And he's got people,

you just watch him going around New York everywhere he goes. He's created excitement around him. I'll give, I think he's a fantastic, I think he's a fantastic campaigner, and I can't wait for food-sponsored food lines. Oh, stop. You know what, literally, the rich people have their own version of welfare every single fucking day of the week. So to give people a grocery store.

Implicit in that statement is that I don't believe in a redistribution of income, which I do, but I don't think you have to be stupid about it. If you want to help young people, fine, give them food stamps, put more money in their pockets. If you want to have, if you want to have lower cost of housing, give tax incentives. to people who build reasonable cost housing and let the private sector take over. Rent control will just take rents up. Anyway. Well, it's rent, it's rent stabilized.

Freezees. That's the word we're looking for. This is the good thing and the bad thing. One, put Andrew Cuomo away. Like, he must leave this. He must join some boards. Get rid of Andrew Cuomo, nobody wants you. Nobody wants you, really.

So, and you've done every trick in the book except appeal to voters. That's one. Two, Curtis Slua, I would give a job to. I think he shows of anybody in this race. He's a big winner coming out of this. Let me just say he loves New York. And if I were Mamdani, I would actually reach out to him because I have to say, I thought he's as kooky as can be, but he's also conduct himself with a lot of grace, I think, right? He hasn't gotten out. He's talked about his issues. He loves his cats. That's besides the point. But I think he really has made some really. good points and some really crazy ones. But I would reach out to him. I just was very, I had a very different opinion of him. And I think he's come a long way, let's just say. I agree, although I will say, I really don't like spoilers in the sense that I think everyone has a bit of an obligation

to, whether he was in the race or not, I do think. But he's not a spoiler. He's the Republican candidate. Cuomo's the spoiler. That's who the spoiler is. He lost. He lost his primary and he couldn't Yeah, but you're defining spoiler by party affiliation. I define spoiler by somebody who has no chance of winning and who is going to dictate the winner by virtue of the fact they're taking votes from someone else. Let me just say, even if you weren't in the race, I think Mondami would still be the winner.

But it's very unusual, and it works both ways. The reason Bill Clinton won was because of Ross Perot. If Ross Perot had not been in the race or dropped out, Bush would have won. If Nader had not been in the race, Gora would have won. So I do think that you have an obligation if you have no chance of winning to let people decide between the two candidates who have a chance of winning. I don't know. Cuomo is a very... Do you think Nader should have stayed in the race?

I think he should have stayed in the race. I think Cuomo just literally can't get out of the fucking... And by the way, I think it would have been a lot more competitive with Curtis if Cuomo had butted the fuck out. Like, he was the Republican candidate. Cuomo lost fair and square. He lost fair and square, and he couldn't take it because he's a giant, I just, he's, I'm glad he would be leaving the scene if he loses.

Anyway, we've got a lot. This will be the end. All wrong with the Democratic Party is personified in that man. Anyway, we've got a lot to, I'm sure Chris Cuomo will write me and me, no, but sorry, Chris, it's true. We've got a lot to get to today, including Netflix exploring a bid for Warner Brothers Discovery and Elon Musk hints at a flying Tesla demo. Oh, good God. Okay. But first, the government shutdown has now lasted more than a month. It's about to come the longest in U.S. history.

The 42 million Americans who received food stamps will only get partial payments from the governments this month. It is really awful for them to do this. The Trump administration just told a federal judge that it would not tap additional funds for full payments. This, after two federal judges, ordered Trump to use emergency funds to keep the program run. Travel disruptions are also mounting with flight delays and staffing shortages at airports across the country. And as a new poll shows most Americans blame President Trump and Republicans in Congress for the ongoing shutdown, ultimately, we're not political experts, but certainly from a business point of view, you saw the United CEO sort of shilling for the Trump White House, which is grotesque, sir. By the way, Mr. Kirby, I happen to be a global services person, and I am understanding.

happy with your stance. I think it's, you can blame both of them if you like, but to take any side, it was really irritating. Where do you, where are we? Where are we from a business and other perspective? Well, there's the, there's the strategic side of it. The Democrats are finally winning. This is, they've, they've strategically, they've picked a pointed, obvious issue, health care. They're right. It always helps to be right. The, The increase in premiums is just untenable for a lot of people. And the Republican viewpoint of as, well, we'll talk about this. This is no way to run government.

It's like, well, folks, you voted for something that essentially transferred money from the health care of lower middle class households to wealthy for tax cuts. That's basically your big, beautiful view. So why should anyone trust that given the power where you already control all three houses of government, that then you're going to address this issue? So you're absolutely correct. the majority of Americans hold the GOP responsible for this. It's just almost alien, or it's an alien feeling to see the Democrats being strategic and pointed and united.

Usually there's three or four of them who've taken money from the private equity industry or something, Kristen Cinema. She turned out to be, who peel off. Lobbing, whore. So this is a big win so far. And then on a more existential level, I've been running around, you know, Midtown talking about masculinity. If you think about provider and prosperity, the whole point of prosperity, the whole point is such that you can protect people. And for them to be cutting off stamps, when the money is available, they have reserve funds. It's like, remember the movie with John Cusack? And they're

in a massive rainstorm. They can't find a place to stay. They have no money. And the woman says to John Cusk, oh, wait, I forgot I have my parents' credit card. It's like a $29 hotel. They're going to get out of this crazy ransom, she's like, and then she pauses and goes, oh, but I'm only supposed to use it in emergencies. And he looks at her and says, well, it's lucky this isn't an emergency to not use every dollar possible to ensure that 14 million American children in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world have access to food. This is an emergency. And they just come across, it's the definition of anti-American, it's the definition of anti-masculine. They're using children as human shields. They think they can shame the Democrats into saying,

we're more deprave than you. We trust, we believe that you're less depraved than us. It's like when Terence Stan played the nemesis of Superman, and he said, I found his weakness. He being Superman, he's like, he actually cares about them. Right now, the GOP is saying, Azad, oh, we think their weaknesses, they actually care about these people, and we'll use them as human shields. And even though we have the money to pay for SNAP for several weeks longer available to us, we think they're going to blink. We're going to use them as human shields. And I think the American public, at least according to the polls, is seeing through this. So. Well, I think what's interesting is the Democrats are like, we'll just show people who you are. Like, let's, we aren't

going to save them. You need to save them. You're in charge of the go. This is your big, beautiful deal. You run all the whole, all, you run the Supreme Court. You run. You run. the House, you run the Senate, you run the presidency. If you kill them, you kill them. Like, we can't stop you. You know, that's, I think it's actually, I don't think, the thing is will they? Because they really are a cruel bunch, right? Them just fuzzin around on this snap thing is so ridiculous. Just pay the snap thing. They want, they can't lose on anything. That's their whole thing, no matter who pays the price. And they'll just look, look, you know, Myangelo, you know, when you see someone, you know, believe it,

believe when they tell you who they are. So let's let them tell us who they are. That's who I say. Yeah. Anyway, we'll see. As I told you, remember that time when that Trump person told me some of the crazies in that group

wanted to do it 47 days for his presidency? That's what it feels like. Anyway, I thought that was a ridiculous, stupid juvenile thing. But here we are. By the way, I really enjoyed the Gatsby party. Nice timing, President Trump. God. I know, right?

Like, literally, is there something? Like, these are careless people. Like, the metaphors just write themselves. I mean, Gavin Newsom doesn't even have to try hard on these things. And he did a good job, actually. So let's move on. We'll see. We'll see.

Do you have a prediction? What's going to move the needle? I got to think that it seems to me that the Democrats are just shockingly unified. And I would think, I want to get your prediction because, as you pointed out, I'm famous the bad of political predictions. But I would think the Republicans will say will come up with something that is like they'll claim that they're staying true to their principles but agree to some sort of accommodation. I just, I mean, what people don't, this is bad on so many levels. They've got to pass it. They can't just say they're going to pass it. The Democrats don't believe them. Oh, no. The Democrats aren't going to go. Yeah. The whole trust part of the program is over. Yeah. We're not. There's notion somehow that the people who decided to take money out of Snap and. put it towards wealthy people's tax breaks, that all of a sudden they're going to have a change

of heart. No, that's, no, and, you know, we're not, we're not going to be fool me once, right? I think what they'll come up with is some sort of accommodation that gives the Democrats at least some of what they want, maybe most of what they want, and they'll pretend to be the good guys and move on. But I think this is a rare winning issue, but people don't realize this is more than just, this is more than just, you know, kids are going hungry and low-income families going hungry. there are 300,000 people in Veterans Affairs giving physical therapy and medical treatment to veterans. So we're going to leave our veterans in the cold right now? I mean, this really is sort of a, what's the point of all this prosperity if we're going to, you know, leave people out in the cold like this?

I just, it really is very, it feels very dysfunctional. Scrooge. Scrooge. Anyway, interesting story. Now, now it's getting interesting. Netflix is actively exploring a bid for Warner Bros. Discovery Studio and streaming businesses, according to Reuters.

The streamer has hired Investment Bank and I don't know who's bank. They're gangsters. They're very good. To evaluate a potential offer. This is the same bank that just advised Skydance on the Paramount deal. Comcast could also be in the mix. President Mike Kavanaugh, who I think is very smart,

said last week the company might consider bidding for certain Warner assets, though he noted a merger isn't necessary. This is really interesting because then David Zasloff now has some shit going on, right? And it's not so easy for the Paramount Boys and their giant money to sail in there. It creates a feeling among shareholders that maybe, especially the studious that is worth more apart than together. It gives it, it gives some juice. What do you think? Or is it all just, it doesn't matter?

So first off, I got this wrong. I said just last week that I didn't think Netflix would get anywhere near this because of they have such a strong culture. What I think it says is a couple things. One, I think this is sort of maybe an acknowledgment from Netflix that they've run out of Greenfield or running room to grow their business organically. And what you said also resonates now. And that is there's some content here that really is singular. And they want to build a content library to kind of try and sort a catch up to. It's quite a content library.

Think about a Game of Thrones. Like, it's so good. There's a lot. There's a lot. Think what they could do with the Sopranos. They could, I mean, like, so much stuff. Just like, and not just new stuff, older stuff, like, the. Oh, my God.

My favorite show, I don't know if you have your favorite show. I watch, for me, my parents, my kids, my sons refused to talk. I was looking forward to the sex talk. Neither of them will ever let me talk. about sex with them. They've just decided that's horrific and dad, no, we don't, we'll learn it on the street or from porn. We have no interest in talking to about it. I think I have sex top at the boys. I've decided that the ultimate sex education is they have to watch all eight seasons of me of Game of Thrones. Oh, oh no. Oh, 100%. It's not sex. It's got aspirational homosexual characters.

It's got real love stories. Ingrid and Jonathan Snow is one of the most gripping love stories ever. got really bad behavior in terms of... It's his castrations. Okay. Well, there's that. And rape. Like, a lot of rape. A lot of, like, okay, all right.

Okay. You do your parenting. I'll do mine. But go ahead. So that's my sex ad for my sons. Right. Is Game of Thrones for eight seasons. Galloway boys, come and see me.

I'll help you. Those are all Richard Plepler, you know, our pal Richard. Just texted me the other. But if you think about, what's so interesting about HBO, is with, I think, a content of budget of about $2 billion versus $18 and Netflix, the culture at HBO must be so extraordinary because they consistently punch above their weight clots. Yeah, it's first it was Bucas, then it was Plippler,

and now it's Casey Blois. Michael Fuchs, way back in the day. But my God, some of the content, sex in the city, I think, was incredible. Think about all the things. And even girls, the modern kind of sex in the city, I thought that was incredible. Have you seen Chernobyl? Chernobyl's incredible.

Yeah, all of it. I mean, it just, this makes a lot of sense, as I told you, for Netflix. It does. And it all, but what it does for David Zasloff is it shows off the stuff

that it's worth, like, don't let these dip shits at Paramount get everything for cheap, right? Don't, like, don't hand it over to these guys who've already shown relatively bad behavior

in terms of media. But they, but they, but, It's so valuable, like the studio and streaming stuff. And then you can figure out what to do with the new stuff. Just spin it all together, give it to Versaunt. That's what someone from there was saying. Let's pronounce it, Versant, not versant.

Versant. Versant. Like, it's a croissant. I don't know. It doesn't make it any better. But what they're probably doing, I would be shocked. I think what they're doing is the following. I think, by the way, Mois has established itself as one of the,

is absolutely, in my opinion, the premier investment bank as it relates to media, they're outstanding of what they do. The, what I think this is, what they've probably done is they've all signed crazy NDAs

and there, I would bet, openly communicating, what they'd be doing? I think they're willing to take pieces. I can't imagine the Ellison's want all of this. And I would imagine that Netflix wants certain things

that Ellison does not want and vice versa. And this might be a club deal where they take certain stuff. And meanwhile, what you have is a CEO who's added so little shareholder value, who's positioning them against each other to do shit like maintain his leadership role and feather his nest. The only thing I know that's going to happen here is that David Zazlov is about to become the Adam Newman of media. And that is make a shit ton of money for destroying a lot of shareholder value by playing these guys off of each other.

By the way, Warner Brothers Discovery, there needs to be a special committee of the board looking at every deal, and Zazov is there to wave his hands and get them excited. He should not be negotiating this deal because the one thing we know about Zazlov is he will extract a great deal of shareholder money and put it in his pocket as opposed to shareholders. If it gets a lot of money for it, I guess that it will be worth it to them. But it is interesting that now there's some activity. And again, as we say, guys get in here. there's some very valuable things. Don't let the Nepo baby get everything. There's stuff that's real.

And also for Comcast, too. Same thing. Same thing. Same same. And there's ways to do this. Anyway, I just like to see a fight. Fight, fight, fight. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break when we come back, Apple, and Amazon earnings.

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Scott, we're back and we've got more earnings to discuss. Let's start with Apple. The surge in iPhone sales, surprise, gave Apple a big boost this past quarter, sending total revenue up $102 billion, up 8% from last year. Wow, that's a lot. It went to 102, up 8%. But it was a mixed bag for other parts of the business. iPad and wearable sales were flat, and sales in China fell about 3.6%. That's not a surprise. Although they don't have really sexy. The watches weren't that big a jump. I didn't get a new one, and I usually do. CapEx came in at $12 billion to the year, up 35% from last year and expected to grow, but it's still pretty low.

compared to what the rest of big tech is spending on AI, they seem rather frugal comparatively, but the others are spending like the proverbial drunken soldiers, sailors, excuse me. And speaking of what other big tech companies are spending, let's talk also about Amazon. CapEx continues to surge with more than $34 billion spent in the last quarter, and a full year total expect to be to top $125 billion. and AI spending seems to be paying off. Amazon Web Services revenue jumped 20% from last year. It's fastest pace since 2022.

Overall, it was a strong quarter for Amazon with $180 billion in revenue and sales up 13% year over year. And by the way, Open Eye just signed a $38 billion computing deal with AWS, another one of these and its first contract with Amazon. So talk a little bit about this and how these companies can usually succeed

in spite of tariffs. aren't affected by them. Well, Amazon might be a little bit, and Trump chaos in general. I think it plays on Apple, too. Yeah. Although they've gotten some exemptions, it's not clear what, you know,

that gift, whatever it was that. The golden calf, as I like to call it. Go ahead. Yeah. Who knows what the tariffs are going to be on Apple? Apple, I would describe Apple's earnings is unremarkable, but stronger than people expected. I think Apple's the most expensive of those stocks.

now. I'm actually thinking about selling my Apple stock, which I've owned for 15 years, just because they're growing single digits, but they're trading like a growth stock. But I bought, I was buy the new iPhone. I find the new operating system to be a bit glitchy. Cumbersome. Me too. But the battery life is great. And also iPhone sales, we don't know how much of it was front loading because of tariff scares, but the company continues to do well. They have been sort of a sleeper on AI. We'll see if they come through and do anything. I, I think that Apple, I mean, what Apple is done, that we'll go down in the history books and they continue to do is that what they have pulled up, the iPhone is the most successful product in history if you just look at the amount of gross margin or gross dollar margin that's been created. And the analogy I always used is that imagine an automobile company had the margins of Ferrari with the production volumes of Toyota.

It's the most, this just is sort of an anomaly in marketing. Typically, you go one of two ways. You go for the mass product that's a lower price, or you go for a niche lower volume product that's more expensive. The iPhone is the most expensive phone on the market, but also the largest volume seller. You just never, you're never able to pull that off. And they continue to sell more and more of these iPhones. It doesn't look like we keep predicting it's going to be spatial computing or there's something else. It doesn't appear, it appears that they're stronger than ever.

Amazon, which again is my big tech stock pick for 26, beat on bottom. bottom-top lines, up 13%, good AWS growth. By the way, sent the stock up 13% after hours. AWS reported 20% growth versus a whisper of 19. They're kind of AWS performance pushback on the overhang here, and that the overhang, or the cloud, over their cloud offering is that it's behind an AI. Their cloud growth hit its fastest pace in three years, and Amazon added 3.8 gigawatts of new power capacity more than any other cloud provider,

So they're going further downstream and giving the market more comfort that they have the power to actually do this shit. It opens something called Project Reneer at $11 billion AI Data Center built to run Anthropic models, which is part of a partnership that we'll see Anthropic using 1 million Traneum 2 chips by the end of 2025. Yeah, that's their big part. That's Anthropics, big part. Well, and get used to this term Tranium 2 because I had never heard this term. Trinium 2 is Amazon's in-house AI. chip that has become a multi-billion dollar business growing 150%, not year-on-year, quarter-on-quarter.

So now Amazon isn't kind of the niche Nvidia business. Let me just tell you. You think they all want to depend on Nvidia? No, no. Oh, they're all trying to figure out a chip. He's got a limited time frame. And Amazon raises 2025 KAPX forecast to $125 billion, signaling that AI demand is still accelerating. And by the way, you brought up a key component, and that is as a percentage of their

top-line revenue, Apple is dramatically an underspender in Cap-X. So are they riding on the rails? What's going, they're riding on the rails. Because you see AI throughout the phone, I'll tell you in this new system, it's always answering AI-like questions. Although, you know, whether you're using another app, every app has it in it. It just is using other people's AI. They're at a different point in the life cycle, and that is Apple, here's the problem.

when shareholders get used to profits, it's like their lips get around the crack pipe, a profit, and you take the crack pipe away, they get very angry. And basically Apple, I don't want to say it's a financial engineering company, but basically their share buybacks, they've bought back like a third or a half of their stock. And the way their stock keeps going up is they're a cash generation machine, and they use that to buy back stock. So if a company, whereas with meta and Amazon, people were sort of, have a very recent memory of extraordinary CapEx and doesn't punish Amazon to the same extent if they reduce their profitability. And put another way, Apple acts and behaves and has shareholder expectations that it's more of a mature company, whereas the other three are still seen more as growth companies and their shareholder base has a greater tolerance for a greater tolerance for investment. So, for example, you mentioned Jeff Bucas. The reason Jeff Bucas sold at the top of the market and convinced as bored we should sell to these drunken fools at AT&T if they're willing to pay this money, because if you want me to compete with Netflix,

I've got to go from being very profitable to very unprofitable, and our shareholder base didn't sign up for that, and there's going to be a revolt, and this thing's going to sell off like crazy. So in addition, I'm just blown away by Amazon's pushing automation. If not for a one-time FTC charge and severance costs, operating margins would have hit 12 percent, which is a record high. And again, the piece of the earnings call that just blew my mind in their retail unit. They are predicting by 2032 or 233 in seven to eight years they have put this out there. We can double the revenue of the second largest retailer by gross dollar volume in history just behind Walmart with no additional people. Yeah, automation. Automation. You know, it's crazy. By the way, they're way behind China, just so you know. Just like, you've seen some of this automation stuff happening.

I think, and I have said this over and again, I wish you would focus on it, is everyone's focused on AI, I'd focus on robots and automation. Like, that to me is where these leaps and bounds are happening in ways that really truly do save money in a different way. I think AI combined with automation and having just been in Korea and seeing some of this, it's really quite astonishing the cost savings in so many ways. and how far this automation has gone. I think it's the untow.

I think AI is doing the fan dance, but automation is something people should be paying attention to. And Amazon has always been in forefront when they bought Kiva. It really made me sit up and take notice at the time. That was many, many years ago. All right. Also, President Trump says that Invidia's most powerful AI chips,

the Blackwell series are staying in America. Trump told 60 Minutes that China and possibly other countries wouldn't be allowed to buy them, basically keeping America's AI technology at home. Trump did leave the door open for China to buy less advanced NVIDIA chips, which they are, apparently, but not the top-tier stuff. This came just days after he met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in South Korea, where Trump said the chip issue didn't actually come up in conversation. So this is the result of all the Trump glossing of Jensen Huang. I was a little confused by this

statement. But I guess they're not going to be able to sell them. So there. There's a very interesting debate taking place in the dynamics around global trade, and that is we sequester or embargo our chips from being shipped, our best chips being shipped to China. Now the question is, should we not be letting China create parity in terms of the most sophisticated brains to power of weapons, media? Or was that just motivation? for them to do a workaround, right? So, and by the way, I don't, I don't feel like I have an answer on that. I think it's a really interesting argument.

Let them steal our stuff and do a workaround. I think that's the, you know, that's right. You create incentive for them to call on their operatives. And by the way, I think what's interesting is I was speaking to someone who was in our intelligence apparatus and he's like, do you realize no spy ever thinks they're doing anything wrong. If you're a Chinese national and you're given an unbelievable opportunity to come studying the U.S. and they get you a job at Google from someone they know who shall remain nameless, and they start asking for your advisory and your help on stuff, you don't feel like a spy, right? You

don't feel like you're spying for the U.S. And there are Chinese operatives everywhere. There are Chinese soft assets everywhere. And their playbook is okay. If Siemens, if you're not going to sell these cell towers, because you see strategic initiative in it, I don't know if that was the case, we'll figure out a way to reverse engineer them, get some key critical IP, copy it and sell it back to you for 40 cents on the dollar, which your telco operators are going to love. So would we be better off capturing all that shareholder value and saying, okay, we'll sell you these GPU hoppers? I don't know the answer to that. I think it's a real conundrum. What I'm increasingly convinced of, and when this is our prediction a couple weeks ago, I think if China really wanted to go for our heart and lungs and really like go for the jugular, they would be spending a lot of money and coordinating an effort to dump. So the U.S. steel industry, essentially the Chinese were accused of dumping. And that was, okay, produce, we have all these steel plants in mainland China. We're going to dump steel into the U.S. meaning we're going to price it below even production costs.

We're going to put every U.S. steel company out of business and we're going to consolidate the market and then we'll raise prices. And by the way, a lot of big tech companies are accused of that. Amazon was accused essentially of dumping retail, pricing it below their costs. No retailer could keep up. Boom, they own 50% of all e-commerce. And what do you know? They have slowly but surely raised their prices, right? I believe that China, the CCP, the key gangster move for them would be to dump AI,

would be to dump LLMs. And that is create a series of LLMs and maybe chips and even new technologies, open source, open weight, dump it into the U.S. market and basically ruin Sam Maltman's fever dreams of having a trillion-dollar IPO when every college kid starts using this new LLM or AI that is free and they can download in a second or or big enterprises start signing up for enterprise licenses or they say we have a new a new LLM and a new AI technology that's not going to require you to build a bunch of nuclear power plants. If I were she, I'd be like, okay, we're not going to we're not going to go after

them kinetically or economically, what we're going to do is we're just going to engage in AI dumping because it is so striking. Do you realize if it wasn't for ARA right now, the market would be flat? Flat, yeah. You've said, and this is what's, you made the thing that Amanda still brings up is, which is, Trump would be in a lot more trouble if AI hadn't been boosting. We'd be in recession. GDP growth would be zero to negative right now. if it wasn't for AI and the promise of AI. And all you need to do is pop that balloon and say, guess what? We're going to old Navy your ass.

We're going to offer 80% of your expensive LLMs and expensive technology, and we're going to do it for not 50% of the price, for 0% of the price. And the thing about China is that the CCP can do this. They run their companies for control, not for profit. But I think there's real existential threats here from China around AI. Well, we'll see. If they do it, we're going to blame you. Scott Galloway.

There you go. Happy birthday. Well, we'll see what happens here, but you're right. You're right. This is all an AI party that we're all living in, and we'll see if that sustains itself. All right, Scott, although if you're a doom, doom, the problem with the AI people is you have one normal critical thing to say, and they're like, you're a doomsayer. And you're like, no, I just am a reasonable person that wonders, you know, that everything isn't going up to the right. And speaking of which, let's go on a quick break when we come back.

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Scott, we're back. Elon Musk is talking about the Tesla Roadster again. Remember the sports car he's been promising for about eight years? That's, you know, when we were supposed to land on Mars. And before that, we were supposed to get full autonomous, none of which has happened. He told Joe Rogan that Tesla is hoping to finally unveil it before the end of this year and hinted that it might be able to fly.

lie. He can't even deliver the car, but this is what he said. Let's listen to what he said about it. Like, this is some crazy, crazy technology we got in this car. Crazy technology. Crazy, crazy.

So different than what was previously announced and... Yes. And is that why you haven't released it yet? Because you keep fucking with it? That's crazy technology. Okay.

Like, is it even a car? I'm not sure it's, like, it looks like a car. Let's just put this way. It's crazier than anything James Bond. If you took all the James Bond cars and combined them, it's crazier than that. He seems crazy. As always, he's making this up. I'm sorry, this is crazy to listen to him.

And Joe Rogan, I don't mind Joe Rogan in his dumb incredulity, but God, can you ask a question? like, hey, you haven't come out with it. Comments came right after Sam Altman posted, who was a Musk's arch enemy, posted he tried to cancel his roaster registration from 2018, saying, look, I get delays happen, but seven and a half years is a bit much. Musk's got that huge shareholder vote coming this week

about his trillion-dollar compensation package, so he's on the road talking to incredulous people, like Joe Rogan. I mean, just deliver the fucking car, dude. Like, it doesn't have to fly. Like, this is just nonsense. This is another one of his promises that promises made, promise is broken, essentially. I don't know. What do you think?

Well, okay, so let's just look at the data. It's been 2,400 days since Elon said there would be one million Tesla robo-toxies within the year. Oh, yeah, those. It's been 3,100 days since he said all superchargers were being converted to solar. It's been 3,300 days since Tesla started charging customers for self-driving software that he said would be able to drive from L.A. to New York City autonomously by the end of 2017. That still hasn't happened to eight years later. It's been 1,100 days since he predicted that under his leadership, Twitter could reach a billion monthly users. It's been 1,700 days since he announced that he'd be uploading

a full self-driving button to Tesla's. This is no different. I love your data. I love Scott brings the data. Because you're a man. That's why. 10%. 100%. Swinging on those vines of data. like this is no different okay so Trump will say and do anything to create a distraction from Epstein Musk will say and promise anything to distract from the fact this is a fucking car company that should be worth 90% less than what it's worth right now the Reboven did you see that chart I sent you 312 times earnings compared to like Apple at 30 or whatever he's

No, it's become a meme stock. And by the way, this is not financial, but don't short this thing. It could, who knows? They'd be crazy, yeah. But I remember that at, I think it was the spy who loved me. They had this amazing car, bond car. So I'm fascinated by Avi. That went into space, the one that went into space?

They didn't have a car that went into space. They've had a flying car and the man with a golden gun, and then had a car that went underwater. Underwater won, yeah. Oh, I think that was a spy who loved me, but I forget. Anyways, I know a little bit about aviation. It's what was fascinated me. I'm an investor in two aviation companies, a company called Boom Technologies, which is trying to create the first commercial supersonic plane since the Concord.

And I'm an investor in vertical aerospace in Europe, which is trying to create this. A Vilo. It's basically like a drone that carries people. Yeah, vertical lift and takeoff. It's a super hot space. Jobi and Archer are the two SUS leaders, and vertical aerospace is the European leader. I know how much time, capital, and more than anything else, regulation is involved in producing.

Oh, man. One of those falls on a, like, a Christmas tree. Well, one of the great unlocks in our economy is that the FAA has basically said, we're going to certify these things to like four or five sigma, meaning that, okay, there's going to be 10,000 crash fatality or automobile accidents. America has been normalized by that. we have to get people so comfortable with this unnatural act of flying across the surface of the atmosphere at seven-tenths of speed of sound in a metal tube with recirculated oxygen, which quite frankly feels very unnatural. So we've got to make it...

Oh, thanks. I'm about to get on a plane. Go ahead. We've got... Pardon? I'm about to get on a plane tomorrow morning, but go ahead. Yeah, but the reason why people don't just fucking freak out and refuse to fly is that it's the safest form of travel ever invented. I mean, it's just, we used to have to eat our nieces and nephews to get across the Rockies. Now it takes us a couple hours and we get peanuts and a ginger ale and no matter how neurotic you are, you try to let your data take over and realize the drive to the airport was about 30 times more dangerous than actually the plane ride. But my point is the certification to get a flying vehicle.

This is all just fucking nonsense. This is nothing but don't look at Jeffrey Epstein. Don't talk about Jeffrey Epstein, and don't dare. You refer to my company as just a great automobile company that should be trading at an $80 billion market cap, not a $1.4 trillion market cap. This is continued jazz hands and distraction. Nobody does it better than this guy. Yeah, he's like P.T. Barnum, but except he doesn't provide a circus. He's very good at this.

And so immediately, I got caught up like, it piqued my interest, and I forwarded to the guys of vertical aerospace. And they came back and said, yeah, they'll show a video of this thing hovering 15 feet off the ground. It takes, I'm not exaggerating, it takes 10 years and billions to get any new aircraft into the air where you can take passengers in it. Oh, are you kidding? He can't even get the robotaxies going that well. Waymo is running right over him. And the same thing with these, you're right, he will release some photograph. He does have a roadster.

He announced a roadster in 2018. I know. Sam Aldman keeps posting screenshots of his $50,000 deposit waiting for his roadster to show up. Yeah, he's asked for it back. But, I mean, it's just ridiculous. It's not going to fly. And by the way, other people have been working on it. People don't know, like Larry Page was invested in one of those flying car.

I don't doubt someday there'll be a hovercrafty kind of car. Not after we're long dead, but there'll be a hovercraft type of car. But it's not going to be widespread until long after you, me, and Elon have left this planet. And not in the good way. This is just nonsense. And he's just doing it because he's on his little tour to show that he's like the master inventor and deserves a trillion dollar compensation.

I got to distract. It's just, he's not the master inventor anymore, folks. He's just not. He should, he could have done a lot more and said he's wasted his time on whatever the fuck he's doing. And this is just more nonsense. I think that's a little bit unfair. I think SpaceX is extraordinary.

And I do think Starlink's extraordinary. Well, great for Gwyn Schottwell, then. Well, but he hard. You've got to give him some credit. Fine. Greatness is in the agency of others, and he manages to get great people. That's great, but he's had enough credit for her work. I just feel like it's her now at this point.

And I get credit for your work. I show up and press record, and you've done most of the hard work. Ah, that's not true. You've more than leveled up, let's just say. Thank you for that. He has not. He has not. Anyway, I know you're kind to him, but this is just doing this kind of stuff means...

I wouldn't describe myself as kind to Elon, I know that. But what I'm saying, doing this kind of stuff tells me everything, which is like, it's crazy. Can't tell you. Ooh, shh. That's why I haven't got in your car. I mean, it's literally like the biggest cocktees in the world that's not that attractive. It's like, okay. Come on. It's like. Joe Rogg. Oh, you mean you haven't delivered to us, not because you're incompetent, but because there's more. Wait, MRI vaccines alter your DNA? Huh, that's super interesting. No one's talking about it. No one's talking about it. Anyway, whatever. I don't have a problem with Joe Rogan being as incredulsy as that's his brand. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. A few years ago, this researcher was trying to get people to relax by sitting in a silent room for 15 minutes. But they hated it. People would rather listen to sounds of people vomiting, nails on a chalkboard, etc. rather than simply sit in silence.

I got obsessed with this experiment, so I decided to make a whole series for Unexplainable about the way our brain processes sound, like tinnitus. It's like you're just trapped. There's nothing else to do, like no way to escape it. Or what audio illusions show us about how hearing works. It just seemed that the world had just turned upside down. Or how astronomers are making new discoveries by listening to space.

I thought those sounds were bothersome, and at that moment, everything transformed into beauty. The sound barrier from Unexplanable, a four-part series about the limits of hearing and the ways we can break through. Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Support for this show comes from Grammarly. Most tasks require some sort of collaboration. The solo genius often has a team behind them to reach. new heights. But collaboration takes communication and communication takes time, which means you need to find a solution that can save you time, crafting emails, sharing notes, and editing your team

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Unlock your superhuman potential. Learn more at superhuman.com slash podcast. That's superhuman.com podcast. This week on Networth and Chill, we're joined by Marina LaRude, the powerhouse founder and CCO of LaRude, the luxury footwear brand that's redefining accessible luxury. From conceiving the idea during an RV road trip with her husband to winning the FNAA 2024 brand of the year award, Marina's journey from teen vogue fashion director to building her own empire is nothing short of inspiring. Marina gets candid about the money mindset shift from executive to entrepreneur, how

she's scaling internationally while maintaining her values and what it really takes to compete with footwear giants when you're bootstrapping your way to the top. Get ready for an unfiltered conversation about wealth building, taking calculated risks, and turning your corporate expertise into entrepreneurial gold. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash your rich BFF. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. You go first. So while we were sleeping, Amazon struck a deal with Open AI. Their Cloud Arm signed a $38 billion deal with Open AI. Yeah, we mentioned that, yeah.

And it matters because if you control the infrastructure and AI models, you sort of set the terms. And so, again, I think Amazon is on a roll here and about to bust out. my fail is pretty straightforward. Stop using children as human shields. And this is just not, you know, the most critical thing, regardless of what you, and I apologize for bringing this up, the most critical thing you could say of Hamas was that they were using children as human shields. Whether you believe that's true or not, that is the worst insult you could make.

I would agree with you on that. That was the worst insult you could make of anybody. And I think the Republicans are in a position to utilize and unlock emergency funds such that 14 million children have food. And instead they've said no, because they care more about kids than we do. And it'll put pressure on them. This is depraved. It is the exact opposite of what it means to be a representative leader. It's the exact opposite of what it means to pretend to be masculine or a man or a leader.

And by the way, I want to be clear, masculinity comes from men and women. It's also, I won't get into gender, but it's just so, it's so embarrassing that the world's most prosperous country has decided to engage in political warfare and use children as human shields. Also, some of the misinformation about what people can buy on SNAP, they're quite strict and there's hairweaves and extensions. Oh, my God, stop it. You can, you can't even buy like a roasted chicken. I don't think you can buy alcohol, can you? I go to the store. I see what the snaps. That's where I get my calories is from Modellas.

Yes, you can't. Like, every congressman that does that, I literally want to reach to the TV and throttle them. It's not true. It's not popsicles and hairweaves, folks, and which is also a version of racism, like the words they're using are so ridiculous. There's a lot of this stuff in red states, white people, poor people. There's all kinds of poor people in this country that are going to suffer. And they're not going to eat. That's really what they're not going to do.

And so the fact that it has to be made up for by charities and people's, other people, you know, people around the country when our government, we've paid into our government to pay for things like this. And it's worthwhile. And it's not being abused by people. And meanwhile, they have a Gatsby thing. Oh, it just drives me crazy. You're 100% right. Do you have any wins and fails, Kara? Yes, I do. My fail was the interview on 60 Minutes. It was a really disappointing interview of Trump. He lied. Listen, it was good for him. He just lied. annually, and they didn't catch him. I was dying. I like Nora O'Donnell. I think she's very smart. I thought she did a very tough interview with Kamala Harris. I wish that Nora O'Donnell had shown up. I wish Chris Wallace was there. I wish Brett Baer was there. He did a pretty tough interview. Chris, where are you? Chris, he's working, he's actually advising Paramount, oddly enough. I wish he would have done the interview, honestly. He did a really tough interview on Trump. That was fair, too. Brick Bear did a pretty tough one, too. And I don't often think that's the case with Brett

I have newfound. I told you I went to that Master of the Universe weekend and Brett did a bunch of panels. I think he is a very talented journalist. I did know him. I thought I was very impressed by him. He's a very nice face. My mother's favorite Fox News personality. Oh, really? Yes, indeed. She loves Beck Bear. He looks like the high school college football star that got a 1400 on the SAT. Oh, does he? Yeah, I don't know. He looks like a scholar athlete. He likes to sing. He likes to sing. He sings with Warner, Mark Warner, the two of us. them sing together. It's weird. Senator Warner likes to sing? Yes, I was at a party, and the two of them broke out, and I literally was like, I have to leave Washington. I love Senator Warner. I was like, I have to leave Washington. I love Senator. If I could, if I could have anyone, if I could have anyone be president right now and installed, and it wouldn't cause revolution because the right doesn't think he's crazy left. It would be Senator Mark. Yeah, yeah, he's great. He's a great. I had dinner

with him recently. But you always have to one up me. I just tell. He likes you. He talks about you all the time. He's like, how's Scott? How Scott? You know, I like him too. Anyway, he and Brett Baer sang a delightful duet at a party I was at once, and it was quite. Anyway, I thought it was a failure of an interview, and I'm, it was embarrassing, actually, for 60 minutes. They get some better questions. I think Nora certainly could have handled it, but didn't, in this case, and let Trump go on and on and on it. I liked her episode with Peter Attia, where we got to see how long she could do a free hang. She's in good shape. Anyway, my win, of course, is Scott Galloway. Let's get into the top of the best selves. You've been so supportive. I have. I think you're missing.

Why wouldn't I be? Would you not be supporting? No, I literally think you're missing having boys around. You've been like the supportive, loving person. My children are very demanding in many ways. It's embarrassing. I do not take compliments. I know.

You don't just take it. Happy birthday, first of all. I know you don't like it, but I'm happy. It's your birthday. I'm glad you're still here. It hurts. Fifty one. Don't worry. I will feed you soft food when you get 92. I'll be feeding you soft foods. Don't worry.

We're going to be like, do you know that? I'll hire someone. Do you know those guys from from Veep at the end when they're showing them later in life? Yeah. And that guy is so foul and rude to his intern. Yeah. And then he's pushing his intern around in a wheelchair and just insulting them. Yes, yes, exactly. That's going to be you pushing me around. Yes, I am going to do that. Anyway, I hope you get to the top of the list. I'm very excited for a tour that's coming up. And we want to hear from you, send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot, submit a question for the show. Or call 85551 Pivot.

Speaking of Scott Galloway, elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, on the latest episode of On with Caras Fischer, I spoke with someone named Scott Galloway about his new book, notes on being a man. Here we talk. Not enough Scott. We don't. We don't. We have our show. We can use it to talk about ourselves in our work. It's a very good book.

Anyway, you talked very candidly about your father, like you did on The View. I don't think you weeped, but let's listen to a clip. For 10 years, the last 20 years of his life, whenever we talk on the phone, he'd say, I love you. And it took me 10 years to say it back because it just felt awkward. I'm like, Dad, I could have used this at 8. I'd need it at 38. Right. But let me put it this way.

A very basic level, Kara. He tried. He was better to me than his father was to me. And also, I have made an exceptional living communicating. I got that for my father. My father could hold a room like no person, and I have to acknowledge. And just because he didn't try, he didn't give it to me on a silver platter, there's no reason you can't be grateful. That was a very nice thing.

I asked you what good thing, because you talked a lot about the deficits that you face, but I thought it was important to point out the good things. Well, this is, this is going to be shocking to our viewers. You're actually a, you know, a decent kind of mediocre, maybe good interviewer. You're actually okay. You're, you know, you're getting there. I heard people tell me that. I've been told. Not bad.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It was a good interview. And you're going to see a lot of Scott, but that's the one you should pay attention to. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday, our last show before our week-long series of shows we're going to run out of things to talk about.

We're going to be coming there in Elon's flying car, obviously. And maybe we will have the robavan one place or something like that. way, Scott, read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Amund, Zoe, Marcus Taylor Griffin, and Christine Driscoll. Alia Jackson engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Gibroos, Ms. Severo, Dan Shalon, and Kate Gallagher. Nishak-Koraz, Vox Media, who's executive producer, podcast, make sure to follow Pivot on your

favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at NYMag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things, tech and business. Thank you.