Pivot - Bezos offers to testify, COVID-19 infections are up and Suze Orman on why emergency savings are more important than ever

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

Kara and Scott talk about the possibility that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos might speak to the House Judiciary Committee as a part of a broad antitrust investigation into big tech. Meanwhile, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo warns that the state’s reopening might need to be delayed after widespread violations of social distancing orders. Then we hear from personal finance expert Suze Orman about the financial economic crisis facing Americans today and why she fears a wave of foreclosures and asset repossessions later this year. The Supreme Court is Kara’s win and a setback in global poverty reduction is Scott’s fail. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Cara Swisher. And this is Scott Galloway. And Cara, I am really shaken by how shaken Mark and Priscilla Zuckerberg are. They're just, they're shaken by Trump's comments. I know, they're disturbed. I'm shaken by how shaken they are. It's disconcerting. Yes.

Just to explain what Scott is talking about, Mark Zuckerberg and his wife, Priscilla Chan, put out a statement saying they were disconcerted by what Mr. Trump has been doing. Shaken. Shaken. Shaken. I think they should probably not say anything. What would you do there, Mr. Marketing Helper? Well, I would say that I'm stirred but not shaken. Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun. Okay. What would you do? What would you do if they didn't say nothing, right?

Say nothing or just give away scads of money? What would I do? I would actually do something. I mean, this is a company supposedly. Well, they're not. Supposedly they're shaken by Trump's comments, but they're not shaken by people being pulled out of cars and hanged in India or little kids getting their limbs amputated because of anti-vax content. I mean, it is just too late for them. There's just nothing. But the thing that I found strange about it was,

when you go into Zuckerstand, you don't leave with your reputation intact. And they were like, okay, we've ruined Cheryl's reputation. Two or three years ago, she was probably a decent candidate to run for president at some point, and she's going to leave this thing just kind of. Yeah. I mean, they've said, OK, her reputation is ruined. So whose reputation can we throw on the funeral pyre? I know, let's find his wife. His wife has a, I think, comes across as a very.

Great reputation. And so they're about to ruin her reputation. So they've said, OK, let's take her. Let's take her remaining reputational points and let's, let's throw them at this problem. And his, the only reason he's doing this is because of these quote unquote virtual walkouts. That'll show him, you know, especially internally his workforce. Yeah. It's, it's a really weird, you know, I think the issue is, is he continues to control everything and makes the calls and no one's willing to say, you frigging idiot, stop it.

Like, no one's willing to tell him what he needs to hear, except us, and he doesn't listen to us, I don't think. Maybe he secretly is one of our fans, but I doubt it. I don't think so. It was really not good. Another not good look, not good look was Ben Smith's column in the New York Times. He filed a dispatch from the Hamptons. Can you about that. Can you give us a breakdown on that? He obviously probably got hacked. Yeah. Yeah, it was a really, I didn't know how he felt about this column, but I certainly read it and it was sort of outraged. Over the weekend where he found

that media bosses commiserating and carrying their own golf clubs as their newsrooms were in revolt. It was a complicated story. And then he actually called someone who he thinks was referring to him because he's up in some faraway place, has been for the whole pandemic. And his whole point, you know, and they had a back and forth with her, which was interesting. And I thought it was fascinating. I don't know if he dispatched himself well. But what he did is he went to the Hamptons, talked to these people, and they're like, you know, we're not going to be quoted by you. But a lot of the heads of these companies are all out there as they're responding while most of their newsrooms are staying in cities. It is interesting because I was talking to a media kingpin last week. I tweeted this,

and he was asking me how the anarchy in D.C. is because I've been there most. I just left just for a week right now. But but he was asking how the anarchy is. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, you need to be here. It's not anarchy. There's peaceful protesting. There was a small amount of looting. There are stores boarded up, but now it's coming down like they aren't present.

So they have a vision of it that is really not what's happening on the ground. And so it was a really interesting question. I mean, I was sort of, and even driving up, we're driving up so Amanda's parents can see the baby. I had like two people, like, where are you coming from, DC? Oh, how is it there? Is it anarchy? And I was like, no, like, no, it's fine to be in a city during this quarantine and then protests. And so just an interesting, it was more of the richer are different than you and me kind of story. But I don't know. What do you think?

He says you from Florida, but you're always in Florida, your fancy house. Florida and fancy. I'm not sure those go together. But anyways, this is creating all the trends that income inequality, the rich, including the liberal wealthy, being totally out of touch with the issues they claim to understand and proselytize with tone-deaf solutions. All of these trends that were sort of happening have just leapt for 10 years to a pretty ugly place. And it's just striking what, you know, fissures, I don't know what you want to call it, but it's fascinating. I like your 10-year idea, people. I think that's so smart, the idea of things, you know,

accelerating. I mean, we talked about acceleration a lot, but this idea of what you are in 10 years is what you should be today. And if you're not, you're in a lot of trouble. It's a really good point. I'm going through these exercises with the companies I'm involved in and some new ones. And I just say, all right, take the three most dominant trends in your business that were happening before this. Now take them out 10 years. And that's where we are. And ask yourself in terms of your human, your financial capital, your strategy, your skillset, are you where you need to be in terms of your store footprint, the people you're recruiting? And it sounds like a basic, I even think it's interesting to do it personally.

Think about what's going on in your life, in your own relationships, the trajectory of your relationships, the trajectory of your career, the things that are important, your relationship with your family, your relationship with God, your relationship with your community, and say, okay, take those trends out 10 years. That's where you are now. Is that where you want to be? And what immediate self-correction? So I should be living in Hawaii right now. So I should move to Hawaii immediately. You should be in Hawaii. I can forget you. Being the bartender who doesn't drink. Don't forget you.

Being the bartender who doesn't drink. Exactly. Exactly. And listening to everyone's tales of tropical woe. But time goes fast. It's a healthy exercise. It was interesting that Dean Biquette stayed in New York. I wouldn't, a lot of people did escape.

You know, I stayed in D.C. So I like being in my house. And, you know, it's interesting. It's interesting of who left and who said, like the MSNBC people. One of the ones was Don Lemon is commuting from somewhere out in Long Island to the studio at Hudson Yards, which seems insane. He should just stay in New York. I just think some of them need to be there in order to understand what's happening, whether it's New York or D.C. or Los Angeles or, you know, if they're going to report or Seattle. Like, I had a lot of texts from Seattle people, and I'm going to get to Jeff Bezos in a second, which, who were like, everyone's, this reporting is just off. Like, it's fine here. There's this sort of party going up on

Capitol Hill of, you know, people. It just is, they should be there to actually live it a little bit better. I mean, they're still there to actually live it a little bit better. I mean, they're still going to live in their comfy apartments and everything else. But it's just, I've gotten a lot out of staying put in D.C. And I have a very comfortable house and everything. But I do, I can see how the pandemic is working, at least in that city. I can see the protests. You can see, it just is like being off at a lakefront kind of place

continually during this thing. It's just, you know, you can take a vacation, but for goodness sake, you know, ensconcing yourself out there is just a different story. Let's really quickly, because we've got a few minutes to talk about Quibi. We're going to switch completely, completely. And the thing, the Wall Street Journal is out with a profile of Quibi CEO Meg Whitman and founder Jeffrey Katzenberg. They are not getting along very well. Jeffrey is apparently difficult. Meg doesn't like it. Contrasting leadership styles is that really nearly broke the company apart in 2018.

I'm sure it doesn't change that much. Quibi has reportedly failed to sign up anywhere close to the number of new users it hoped to attract. It's expected to have 2 million paying subscribers after one year compared to its target of 7.4 million. What do you think? Have you seen Normal People on Hulu? No, I haven't. I want to. It's fantastic.

Daisy Edgar Jones, Paul Muskell, young Irish people that have sex a lot, which makes for a great media full stop. But in addition, it's really well done. have sex a lot, which makes for a great media full stop. But in addition, it's really well done. And it's about a kid and he goes over and has sex with this woman and then doesn't take her to the dubs dance. Do you know how many times the Wall Street Journal called me about that fucking Quibi article? I don't know. Tell me. Texting and calls, including an hour long call, seven times. Okay. Do they mention the dog? No, they don't take me to the dubs dance. They just come over and have sex with me and then leave me. No, they got your ideas.

And then leave me. They stole your idea. Anyways, anyways, Quibi. Are your ideas everywhere? Back to Quibi. Okay, all right. Back to Quibi. They don't want to take me to the dance.

Anyways, so Quibi is- I think that's a good decision, but go ahead. Initially, I was the original hater. I said before this thing came out, okay, they're going to try and give you a Toyota Camry for the price of a Mercedes. Netflix gives you a billion dollars in content for a dollar per month. Apple gives you $1.4 billion. Quibi is going to try and charge you $3 for every billion dollars in content. So, okay, Toyota for a Mercedes, which means it has to go niche.

How do you go niche? Well, their idea of niche is short form content optimized for mobile. I'm like, short form content, isn't that called YouTube? Oh, but we're going to optimize for mobile. Wait, so you're saying YouTube isn't optimized for mobile? And they were trying to get me on board. I wouldn't get on board or at least the people covering it. And I was very critical of it before even came out. And then a senior exec from Quibi emailed me and said, look, it's just bad form for you. You're an entrepreneur to be mad mouthing another startup before it comes out. So I'm like, fine, I get that. Fair point. I will stay quiet. I will stay quiet. This thing is dead. They are now seeking assisted suicide. They're going to try and get it. Oh, I see you're not going to stay quiet now.

I'm done. Quiet, it's finished. This was literally, this represents, there's so many interesting things here. First off, let me be totally ageist, right? People in their 60s make great mentors. They make decent leaders. They are shitty entrepreneurs. It's the crazy young brain that is able to work 80 hours a week and take risks and not have guardrails that make for good entrepreneurs.

I have been the oldest entrepreneur in the portfolio of the venture capital company that's back my last two companies by about 10 years, and they keep reminding me of that every six months. These guys, 63 and 69, Meg is a great operator. He is a content genius. They have no business doing a startup. Yeah, that was my feeling. What media tech company has been started by two people in their 60s that has worked?

And I know that's a horrible thing to say, but it's absolutely true. Well, especially aimed at younger people. Well, it was aimed at younger people, too. I think I said that to him one way or another. I'm like, why would you know what my son wants? I don't know what my son wants. In addition, the way startups work is you start small and you pivot. That doesn't work.

That doesn't work. That doesn't work. Okay, that works. Now let's pour the water on it. When you show up with big names and big backers and throw $1.6 billion at a really shitty idea, you've built a Frankenstein. And that is, okay, we reanimated. We thought it would be great to bring Frank back to life. But now it's ridiculous.

There's something wrong here. So what happens? What do we do with Frankenstein? Let's cut to the chase. Scott Galloway has had it, especially since not being, what? Especially since they didn't take me. Wall Street Journal didn't take me to the dubstands. But it's very simple. I believe that they, and I don't know this, I believe they are already going around to different platforms and saying, we need assisted suicide because we can't stand the pain of tech failure. And they'll announce that they have been acquired.

They'll be acquired for less than their cash on balance sheet because this company is now worth less than zero because they don't even have any assets. You know the IP of the company reverts to the creators after four years? Go back to the creators, yeah, yeah, which was attractive to creators. So there's nothing here. Why not? What's the deal? In July, when these free trials are supposed to convert, this thing is just a total disaster. I mean, it has no signups.

The strategy makes no sense. This thing's been overfunded. Who's the buyer? Who's the buyer? Then who's the buyer? I want to get some real details. I don't know. It could be a snap.

It could be a Comcast with Peacock. Because just Jeffrey Katzenberg alone is a real asset. He's probably worth a quarter of a billion dollars just to have, say, for 24 months, will you help us creatively? And in terms of context, Meg Whitman is an unbelievable asset. But this will not tarnish him, although he's been through different wingers. Would this tarnish him, do you think? Oh, I don't know. He is very smart. I think a guy like that. He's still got, you know, he's still got Shrek and Kung Fu Panda. I mean, he's got pretty big medals or trophies on his case. But they're right.

I bet as we speak right now, he's calling Evan Spiegel and say, hey, Evan, do you think there's a way we could partner around this? But this thing is already the walking dead. And so they're out talking to people about how can we partner if they have $400 million on their cash. I want you to pick one. Oh, I don't know. I really don't. It could be, it could be, I think it's probably a platform that is old economy and knows, knows Katzenberg really well. I think it is struggling. It could be HBO Max, HBO Go, HBO Joey Bag of Donuts, whatever they're calling themselves now, or it could be, uh, did you see that? How could they do such a bad job when they're so good at content? That was like, they changed it.

I still don't know if I can use it for free. It's called AT&T. I just would like someone, I know, I literally would like, can I use it for free? Because I pay you lots of money to use HBO. Shouldn't I get this stuff for free? I mean, really, it's really amazing. I think the most likely buyers are going to be HBO or Peacock, which will get out of the gate slowly and be looking for, but it'll be assisted suicide. Content for three or four years. Yeah, or something different. I'm sure they have some assets, but it'll be sold for half the cash on its balance sheet. All right, $200 million.

Wow. And they won't disclose the numbers so they can have peace with dignity. All right, $200 million. Wow. And they won't disclose the numbers so they can have peace with dignity. But this thing, I mean, it's just such a great example of a flawed strategy. It's going to be a great case study. Anyways, Quibi and the Wall Street Journal, who has sex with me and then doesn't take me to the dance.

Who does not love you. I'm so sorry. But they did give you a big wet kiss recently, so just don't complain. Oh, they did, didn't they? All right, let's get to big stories. recently, so just don't complain. Oh, they did, didn't they? All right, let's get to big stories. The antitrust investigation at Amazon is heating up. Today, we learned that CEO Jeff Bezos could testify before the House of Representatives this summer. The House Judiciary Committee is currently investigating whether Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google engage in anti-competitive practices that hurt competition and their consumers, you think. All of this comes as pressure on Amazon intensifies.

California and Washington are reportedly looking to open their own antitrust investigations. They're especially interested in whether Amazon policies harm third-party sellers who list their products on the site. That's where the game is, really. Given all the controversy on Amazon, that's where the game is. So he is then, Amazon sent a letter, which I thought, again, was very, now speaking of someone who does read the room, saying Jeff Bezos could possibly, they'll have executives including Jeff Bezos. They did not rule it out. I thought that was

rather clever on his part and very smart. So they said that he wouldn't testify. Now they said they would. And of course, Sundar Pichai, Tim Cook, Mark Zuckerberg testified. Sundar didn't come at one point. Bezos hasn't. I think that's, we suggested that's what he does, just show up and talk. And I think he gets a lot of mileage when he does that. What do you think? Oh, he's already decided to testify. And to the recalcitrants is nothing but positioning such that they can negotiate for certain things, be it the timing, who covers it, who's on the committee, which committee. But basically, this will be – he is very likable. He will, on cue, expectorate that wonderful, gregarious laugh. It'll be an example.

He will just own it. This will be a brand building event. And unfortunately, what it will really be under the surface is further evidence that we have taken a key step towards tyranny, and that is private power has now co-opted the government. Because if you think about it, he now owns the most expensive home in Washington. He owns arguably the second most influential media company as it relates to these people's future in the world.

He owns the Post. Yep, the Washington Post. He has over a hundred full-time lobbyists in the East. Although, can I just be fair? I know tons of people who are there. They say he does not meddle.

Just, he does not. I've asked them dozens and dozens of times. And he's a hands-off kind of fellow on that thing. But he should be, actually. I don't doubt it. He's handling it perfectly.

But even that alone gives you a bias toward him. If he didn't own the Washington Post, if he hadn't been such a good fiduciary for the Post, which I believe he is, I don't think we would have turned him into a hero after he sent out dick pics. Because everybody wants to like the guy because they want to be invited to his cool parties in DC, which is a very low bar. Some of the lamest parties I've ever been to are in DC. He'll have ones that are mediocre, which will make them the ticket. Jay Powell wants to go to his parties.

And so when you're a good fiduciary for the Post and you have a hundred thoughtful, well-paid people taking you to dinner and saying, you're a visionary and we want to be involved in your next campaign. So this will be, this will be a, he will put on a masterclass. He's very smart. He's very likable. And two-thirds of the, two-thirds of the people up there are going to want to cue him up for great comments. There will be a few people. And he's also just good at it. Hopefully, yeah, that's right. Hopefully, people like Representative Porter,

you know, AOC, they'll be the only ones in the room that actually say anything and hold them accountable. Everybody else will just throw softballs at them. I agree. I agree. And I think he's good at it. He's so good publicly. He's funny. The whole thing he did around that, again, I said it was a stunt, but it was a good stunt with the letter of, I don't want this racist buying Amazon stuff anyway. He's very deft at it, largely because he's an adult, but he's also, he's very witty, he's charming. And I think you're right. I think he looks good. He's no Mark Zuckerberg, let's just say, speaking of someone who just doesn't read. He really does know how to. I can't think of maybe one or two times where I thought he's done a bad job publicly when he's appeared. Except some of the rocket stuff seems creepy. But I agree. I think it's a super smart move on his part. And to go there will suck up all the oxygen. That doesn't mean they're not going to be investigating this because this third party, it is so, what they're doing around third party sellers on that platform really does need strict investigation.

I think they will not back off from investigating that. The same thing with Google. I think the, I was talking to some Justice Department people and the word is out among the Trumpy is to lay off of Facebook essentially, that they don't – they're not rushing to do the Facebook stuff. But there is – definitely coming. Sorry, just the investigations are coming anyway, no matter how charming it is. And again, in a genius kind of bargaining, I think he's already decided, just as he's already decided to testify, he's already decided that he will say, okay, I hear you, and I am going to tell you what I'm

going to do. I'm going to break myself up, and he will spend AWS, and it'll be the most valuable company in the world within four to five years. These things have already happened. I think that's smart. And also, the recognition thing was interesting. Their idea that recognition should be stopped for a year. He got ahead of the story, which was, again, that's what he does. He gets ahead of stories, which is, you're right, 100%. He's already decided. Yeah.

So, anyways, I think it'll make for great theater. He's going to own the room. And Washington has been overrun. He's going to have a great theater. He's going to own the room. And Washington has been overrun. When you think about it, they'll have, you know, however big these committees are, 20 or 30 representatives. And I think it's going to be a House committee.

And then, but meanwhile, he's had a— They'll all show up. Everyone will show up. He has 100 lobbyists who've been working there full time on this. And he's the biggest brain in the room. He's a brilliant man. And he also has— He really is. I mean, just look at the assets the guy has. We have been so overrun here, Kara. I mean, we really have been totally overrun.

Anyway, I'm not optimistic. Just keep ordering. No, okay. But then who will do the investigations? Will it be states? Because I don't think he's getting out of this. I think spinning off will take care of it. That's what he'll do.

States Attorney General. It'll be like tobacco. It'll be like tobacco. They'll get together and they'll say, you know, we're sick of giving this guy subsidies and making him richer. And all of our retailers, all of our Main Street, and now, you know, a lot of our media companies because of Amazon Media Group. you know, a lot of our media companies because of Amazon Media Group. You know, we're basically, this guy's worth the GDP of Norway. And all that's happened is that we have, our retailers are getting kicked in the nuts day after day after day. And great consumers are winning, but states, municipal coffers, finance competition is not. And they don't, you know,

there aren't a hundred lobbyists in New Mexico. I just think the state's AGs are going to get together and go after him. Yeah, probably California. California would be my guess. Usually they set the tone, right? Yep, yep, yep. So we'll see where it goes, Mr. Bezos. But Mr. Bezos is, as usual, being very smart. Okay, Scott, we're going to take a quick break.

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The all-new reimagined Nissan Kicks is the city-sized crossover vehicle that's been completely revamped for urban adventure. From the design and styling to the performance, all the way to features like the Bose Personal Plus sound system, you can get closer to everything you love about city life in the all-new, reimagined Nissan Kicks. Learn more at www.nissanusa.com slash 2025 dash kicks. Available feature. Bose is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Welcome back. We're turning to coronavirus.

It's still here. Just FYI, Governor Andrew Cuomo threatens to press pause on plans to reopen the city. Cuomo was furious after New Yorkers rushed to bars over the weekend and weren't wearing face masks. Responding to a video on Twitter showing crowds of people hanging out at St. Mark's Place, Cuomo warned, don't make me come down there. Oh, goodness sake. The New York state is receiving more than 25,000 complaints about businesses not enforcing social distancing, with most of them in Manhattan and the Hamptons. Cuomo warned that bars and restaurants that don't follow health rules could lose their liquor licenses and local governments must enforce the law. According to reports,

22 states are seeing an increase in COVID-19 infections since stay-at-home orders start to relax. This is just so clear. I mean, it's so interesting. My son's girlfriend is with us, and she works in a supermarket, and she said it's exhausting trying to get people to wear masks. And she lives in Maine, like everywhere. You know, I've heard this story over and over. I ask, you know, I'm always wearing a mask when I'm at a store, and all the store people are like beleaguered, beleaguered about what to do.

And, of course, they're brought into a situation where they don't want to be brought into. People mostly leave, but there's a lot of videos of people coughing on people, all kinds of things, and making this continued, not just mask, but the gathering issue. You know, the coronavirus has gotten worse, and we forgot about it for a short amount of time, but it's still here and not great. What do you think is going to happen, Scott? amount of time, but it's still here and not great. What do you think is going to happen, Scott? I think it's really incredibly upsetting. I think America, I think this is just as we talked about the senior acceleration, I think in eight weeks, America has relinquished its leadership role. And America had a wonderful role and the world was a better place because America could get off its heels more than any nation

in history and onto its toes and start helping other nations and what we're seeing with COVID-19. I mean, Christ sent Cuomo down here. You should go on Atlantic Avenue here in Florida. You wouldn't even think there's a coronavirus. And meanwhile, we had a record number of infections yesterday, and we have a governor who is now suppressing data and won't release hospital intakes because he believes it reflects him and his role model in a poor light. So we're now no longer even being transparent about information. And it's awful for us, but who it's really bad for just as a debt crisis can begin or a financial

crisis can begin in a mature market. Typically the ones that take the brunt are the developing markets. And now nine of the 10 fastest growing infection rates are in developing nations. We were hoping that because of a lack of interaction with mature economies, the fact that they don't cluster old people as densely. And by the way, my Yoda on this is Fareed Zakaria, who's become my new role model. I think that guy's just incredible. And he did a fantastic show on this. But for a lot of reasons, we were hopeful that the infection rates were going to largely spare some emerging economies. And that, of course, is not true. And you're going to see 20 to 40 years of gains around the eradication of extreme poverty. I think it was the World Bank was hoping that the people living on less than a dollar a day would be cut in half in 40 years.

And it actually happened in 20 years. And because these countries cannot borrow money at low interest rates, because it literally is life or death, your ability to go to work because they don't have a social safety net, you're going to have unbelievable death, disease, and destruction in these emerging markets. And we're not going to be there. And this is something the Gates Foundation. And the sad part is— The Gates Foundation is working on this. I was talking to them, too. They said this is just a disaster for their malaria efforts, all kinds of efforts.

And if you think about America, if we had the ability, if we had been more fiscally responsible, if we hadn't conflated exceptionalism with arrogance, if we had gotten out ahead of this thing, if we had an ability to produce cotton swabs, if we had leadership, we might be in a position like Germany where we could go on our toes and help these nations. And now we can't. We're now just dealing with our own mess. So, yeah, what you know, there's also interesting. Speaking of our biggest rival, China, officials in Beijing are trying to contain a new outbreak at a market there, at a food market. I don't even think it's an exotic.

It might be an exotic market. I think it's just a food market. China was acting like it was out of the woods, but now not so much. You're going to see disruptions. China just slaps down the law right away in terms of keeping people away from each other. And here it's like party time. And I can't even think about July 4th, which is coming up here in this country. I'm strictly quarantined right now, but I just,

I sort of am wondering what goes through people's heads when they, I don't think they care. My mom, as usual, is still in the foxhole. And of course, Fox News is continuing to misinform her. You know, she was like, oh, it's fine. It's no big deal. And I literally screamed at her. I'm like, it's a big deal. You are going to die of this if you don't stop going out. And, well, you have to die of something. That was the attitude.

You know what I mean? I don't think she's uncommon or anything else. I think the argument is. You know, just is tired of being inside. We accomplished what we were supposed to, and that is we have flattened the curve. To be fair, initially we said, all right, we have to flatten the curve so we don't overrun our medical system. And we have learned a lot. There's new therapies, whether it's remdesivir early on, whether it's oxygen early versus ventilators, it does feel like we're getting better at it.

And I wonder if we're just really stupid and we're so arrogant that despite the fact that the virus doesn't appear to have gotten the memo about our optimism around returning to our normal lives, or if we have, if you will, there's a wisdom of crowds or a lack of wisdom of crowds. It's basically said the economy is more important than Nana and Pop-Pop, and we're going to lose a couple million people. And we know that. We don't want to say it out loud, but we know that. And we've decided that that is worth the tradeoff. that. We don't want to say it out loud, but we know that. And we've decided that that is worth the trade-off. I can't figure out if it's pure arrogance or a conscious decision that a couple million people are going to die. And that's just where it is. Well, it's something, I think it's

more than not just the economy is better, is that I want to go to a bar. I don't want to wear a mask. I don't want, it's something very sinister about the American experience. It's very much, you know, I literally had an argument with someone about MS. I was like, why not? Like you're protecting everybody. What is the, it's not that big an inconvenience. It's the inconvenience factor too, which we're not very good at. In any case, we have a really good guest to talk about this of why we don't pay attention to the things to do for the longterm. We'll be back with the great Susie Orman after this. to do for the long term. We'll be back with the great Susie Orman after this.

Okay, we have our friend of Pivot. I am so thrilled to have on the line Susie Orman. Susie is the number one New York Times bestselling author, two-time Emmy winner, host of the popular Women and Money podcast, a columnist, a writer, producer, one of the top motivational speakers in the world today. Susie, welcome to Pivot. Thank you. Happy to be here. Let's pivot into this. All right. Well done. We were off mics.

Tara and I were saying how inspiring you are. We never agree on the same people that are inspiring. So anyways, a quick question. You follow the markets and investing. I think there's this fascinating trend. I'm curious what you think of it, where it appears that a lot of new investors are looking to the stock market to get the same sort of reward or dopa hit from gambling. That because Vegas is shut down, because sports betting is off, that we have this influx of

young people into the market who may be looking at the market more as gambling versus investing. Do you see the same trend and do you think it's troubling? I think it's troubling and you betcha I see the same trend. Listen, when somebody buys a stock like Hertz that's basically bankrupt, where their bonds are selling for 40 cents on the dollar, the stock has no value whatsoever and yet somebody is bidding it up. And somebody who's bidding it up happens to be people who don't know what they're doing on any level. And so they're all kind of joining in on this game right now. The other thing, you guys, that's really interesting is that many people right now, younger people, have more money than they've ever had before because they're actually earning more

money on unemployment, especially with the $600 a week the feds are giving them than they've had in a long time. So you can talk to credit unions and banks and you could see on certain days their deposits went up like a billion dollars a day at a time. And that was coming from all the people getting unemployment and the stimulus checks and everything else. They don't know what to do with up like a billion dollars a day at a time. And that was coming from all the people getting unemployment and the stimulus checks and everything else. They don't know what to do with that money. They're not having to pay many of their bills, if you think about it. So what are they doing? They saw the market going up and up and up. And I think they joined in, which is why you're seeing these wild fluctuations, you know, like even today, down 700 points, then up yesterday.

I mean, it's just been crazy. Yes. So I agree with you. Sort of Tesla at a thousand bucks. Yeah. Is Tesla a thousand? Oh, crazy. Sorry, Cara, go ahead. That's okay. So this has been one of your longstanding refrains, what people should, their focus should be to reduce their debt, to save. What do you imagine people should do now? Because one of the things that you're revising slightly is saying people need to focus

on building their emergency funds, which is something you do talk about. Talk a little bit about what people should do, not this sort of swinging in the stock market. Yeah, it's all I talk about. And the reason that it's all I kind of talk about is that just really let's think about what just happened a few months ago.

You had people making $150,000, $200,000 a year, and they were spending every single penny that they were making. They had no savings at all. Do you know that 60% of the people in the United States before COVID had $400 or less in their savings account? So now you have people who were making money. They were going on vacation. They were you have people who were making money, they were going on vacation, they were buying cars, they were doing this, they were doing that. COVID hits. Not only did they lose their jobs, everything went. They weren't allowed to go out. Those were the same people that you saw standing in the food lines. You had people making $200,000 a year standing in food lines. On the other hand, if you had listened to me, you had eight months of an emergency fund. I know

because I've gotten thousands of emails like this now. They weren't affected by it. They didn't have to wait. Were they going to get their stimulus check or not? Did they qualify for the stimulus check? What about unemployment? You had all these people apply for unemployment. You had millions of people apply for unemployment when normally only 200,000 people a week apply for unemployment. The system broke down. Everything broke down. Everybody was like, I need my money. I need my money. But if you had an eight-month emergency fund, you didn't have to worry about it. And so the lesson, the main lesson that I hope everybody has learned from what we've all just been through is you need an emergency fund of at least eight months, eight months, so that what? At times like this, you lose your job,

you don't have income, nothing's coming in anymore. You can pay your bills and you don't have to freak out. Would you up it, Eddie? Would you up it from eight months? Or do you think eight months is plenty? And then Scott, go ahead. It depends who you are. I think eight months is absolutely fine unless you're in retirement. As soon as you're approaching retirement, you need a three-year cash cushion.

Because on average, Kara, it will take 3.1 years from a market to go from its top to its bottom again, back again, where it's okay. When you're in retirement and you're living off of your retirement funds, meaning you're taking money out of your IRA, your 401k, most of the time that money's invested in stocks because you're not getting a return on interest rates anywhere right now. And you have to be crazy if you ask me if you're in bonds at this point in time. And so you don't want to be selling out of the stock market to take money out to live on when you are in a bear market. So if you have a three-year cash cushion, that can get you by for the three years before you then have to touch money

that's in the stock market. So yeah, you never want to be a for-seller, right? It strikes me that when you're talking about people need to think differently about debt and saving, and they need a new gestalt, a new approach to their financial health. And when you try to get to the root of what it is about Americans, I don't know if it's our optimism or this need where if you're making a quarter of a million dollars a year, you still put yourself in a vulnerable position and you think about, well, how do we change that mentality? Do you think there's a concern that when we bail out small businesses, when we provide some people with more money than they would have if they were working, that aren't we just creating, aren't we just propagating this mentality where we don't

move to a more conservative mentality because we're creating moral hazard that people believe they'll be bailed out? I don't know if people believe they will be bailed out, but I think the government, as of late especially, has a need to bail people out because when you bail people out, look, for instance, what they've just done with the money that they, many, not all, but many people took that money and rather than not all, but many people took that money. And rather than saving it, building up an eight month emergency fund, they've been putting it into the stock market. They could not wait. You know, recently on my podcast, I did a podcast on the patience, you know, of poverty, like when you're impatient, it will create poverty for you. And so, so many people

now were so impatient, they have to get out of the house, they have to go eat again, they can't stand being in the house anymore. All that's going to backfire on everybody, I'm sorry to say, in my opinion, anyway. But I agree with you, Scott, It's that, you know, I have people who wrote in and they said to me, Susie, why should I go back to work? I'm making twice now what I'm making, you know, what I used to make. Why would I do that? Which, by the way, caused a big problem for the PPP program, the Paycheck Protection Program. Because prior to them just changing the formulas, it used to be you had to pay, you know, spend at least 75% on your employees. They had employees that didn't want to go back to work. I'm not coming back to work for you. I'm making more money than you paid

me. Why would I do that? Which put a lot of businesses in trouble because they couldn't meet the formula that they were supposed to meet to get that small business loans, you know, to be a grant, which I think probably benefited a lot of very wealthy businesses. But I think in the long run, it's really going to hurt the small business that took out that loan and thought it was going to be a grant because I think it's going to end up being a loan rather than a grant. So what do we do to get out of this? Do we need to add more unemployment insurance? How do you look at the economy going forward, especially if there's another coronavirus outbreak, which it looks like that's where it's headed? Yeah, the stock market is not the economy. The economy is not the stock market.

I think relatively, we're going to be fine in the stock market. I think we're going to trade on the Dow anyway between $22,000, $25,000. It's just going to go back and forth for a while. But when you're looking at the stock market, I just have to say this. You have to realize, what else does somebody do with money when they do have money? Because also, our audiences, they don't have money money when they do have money? Because also our audiences, they don't have money and they do have money. And so they're almost being forced to put money, those that do have money into the stock market, because where else are they going to put it? They're going to put it in a 10-year treasury at 0.76%, the possibility of negative interest rates.

So they're forced to go into the stock market where they could at least get good returns in many dividend paying stocks. So that's one thing. In terms of the economy, I think it's going to be rough and I don't care what anybody says. And more than the big picture of the entire economy, I think people's personal economic life is going to get hit here shortly, and I'll tell you why. People live in this fantasy world. As long as they have money to pay their bills right here and right now, they don't think about the future. They never think they're going to get sick. They never think they're going to get older. So they're in a situation right now where student loans are deferred till September 30th. There's 90-day deferrals on mortgages,

on car payments, on car insurance, on all these things. So they haven't had to pay any of their bills. Do you think that they've actually saved money? I doubt it. And then all of a sudden what's going to happen is the moratorium is going to be over. Their rent is going to be due. And if they don't pay their rent and the back rent, they're out. They don't pay their mortgages. All this is going to come at the exact same time when unemployment, the $600 extra a week, is going to stop in about a month and a half from now. Unemployment is, you know, in most states, like in the state of Florida, is $275 a week.

With the $600, it's $875 a week. That $2,400 a month is a big difference. You take that away, how are these people going to pay for anything? So I think you're going to see a lot of repossessions in cars, a lot of foreclosures on real estate. 40% of the jobs are not going to come back. Everybody's learned how to do all of this right from their home. They don't have to spend the money. The big boon of all this is for the corporations. Are you kidding me? They are going to make a killing off of all of this

because they're going to be able to reduce their workforce. They're going to be able to reduce their expenses by not having these big buildings that they've had to fund. And so the economy eventually is going to come back and it will be okay. But the personal economy for people, I think is going to be very rough for a long time to come. And it's going to affect those who need it the most. Those who made money and they have money, they'll be fine. The percentage of the people that don't have savings, don't have a job, they're going to be in really bad shape, I'm so sorry to say. Do you, when you see these dynamics playing out, are you telling people to reallocate their, for those people who do have started saving and started investing, does this

change your portfolio strategy in terms of a mix between equities and debt at all? Or do you just stay the course and be focused on that eight-month buffer and continue to save? And Scott, when you say debt, do you mean bonds or do you mean debt? Excuse me, bonds, yes. I personally would not be in bonds on any level, in any way, shape, or form right here and right now. It makes absolutely no sense. Why would you do that? You would be far better off even keeping your money in a savings account that's giving you a higher interest rate than a 10-year treasury. And if you, you know, without going to an economics lesson here, but usually the 10-year treasury trades at 2% inflation plus the 2%, whatever GDP is. If GDP right now is 2% and around there, let's say, and you're going to probably have an inflation of 2%,

4% is what you should be getting on a 10-year treasury. Instead, you're at 0.76%. So you buy something that you absolutely are going to lose money on without a shadow of a doubt, unless you hold it for 10 years, and then you're still going to lose money because of inflation. So in terms of the stock market, you know, most people don't have the ability or the desire to what stock should they buy? What sector should they be in? How should they diversify? No, no, no.

The way people really, everyday people that are my people, you know, my people are those that have credit card debt and they don't know what to do. And they need help. And the only money they're saving. Is in their 401k plans. Or 403bs or Roth IRAs or whatever.

All they buy are index funds. And so the only change. That I've made for them. Is that rather than buying. A standard and poorest 500 index fund or ETF, buy the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund or ETF, which is the entire stock market, so that you get more diversification. Obviously, if you have a lot of money, you should be in individual stocks, you should be doing all kinds of things. But for many people, it stay the course.

The main thing really is this, is that please, if you have the ability to do a Roth 401k, 403b or a TSP or a Roth IRA, those are the type of retirement accounts that you want to be in. Stay away from the traditional ones. That's what they're called traditional IRAs or 401ks, where you get a tax write-off today. But in the long run, when you go to take your money out, you're going to have to pay taxes on it. A Roth, you pay taxes today. And in the long run, when you take it out, it's tax free. Why? Do you really think that tax brackets aren't going to have to go up 5, 10, 15 years from now in order to pay for all the debt that we're carrying? Of course, they're going to have to. So when you put money in a retirement account,

the government knows exactly how much money you have in there. The government knows you have to start taking required minimum distributions out by the time you're 72. So given everybody's going to get there sooner than later, I'm telling you, I would rather pay the taxes today when we're in the lowest tax brackets of a long time still, and let the money grow tax-free versus tax-deferred. I have one last question, and Scott may have one. If you were running the Treasury Department right now, if you were running the United States and deciding what to do next, what would be your first two, three moves really quickly? Boy, you know, I don't know. And the reason that I don't know is that there's a really big difference between an economist and a personal finance expert. I can tell you exactly what to do given any situation that's happening in the economy and in your personal life. there's no way for me to really know what's really happening in this economy because I don't believe anything that they are telling me on any level it's like when I see Larry Cullow and I love Larry

you know from CNBC days good guy and when I hear him get on and say Steve Mnuchin is doing a really good job and this is are you kidding? I still believe to this day that everything that is happening is really happening to benefit those who have a lot of money. Those corporations that are really, you know, huge contributors to campaigns really, you know, are the crux of everything. I don't think they really care about what the average Joe is doing or the average Jane or the people that don't have educations. If they did, if the government and everybody really cared about those people who don't have money, do you really think that the highest interest rates out there are usually for student loans, although they just lowered them to 2.75% starting July 1st.

But for all these years, they've been like at 4%, 5%, 6%, really, making money off the students. It's a moneymaker. And you can't even bankrupt them. What's that about? Why is it that you can't bankrupt a student loan? But you can bankrupt IRS debt. You can bankrupt home loan debt, car debt. What is that about?

IRS debt. You can bankrupt home loan debt, car debt. What is that about? So I feel really sorry and confused as to what I would do if I were them because I have no idea what they're dealing with truthfully. So Susie, last question. I don't know you, but by all exterior measures, you appear to have had this exceptionally rewarding professional and personal life. You give a lot of financial advice. What personal advice would you give to your 25-year-old self for a rewarding life? What one piece of advice can you share with young people? I would tell them to have faith that everything kind of happens for the best. Because you have to remember when I was 25, I was a waitress at the Buttercup Bakery making $400 a month.

And I was a waitress all the time from 23 till 30. And then my life just kind of changed at that point. What was the catalyst for that change? The catalyst for the change was losing all the money that the customers at the Buttercup Bakery gave me. They gave me $50,000 to open up my own restaurant. And they told me to put it at Merrill Lynch until they could help me open it up. I went to Merrill Lynch. I didn't know what that was at the time. I did exactly what they told me to do, put it in a money market account, except my broker, Randy, said to me, Susie, how would you like to make a quick $100 a week? And I said, that's more than I make as a waitress. How do you do that? To make a long story short,

within three months, all $50,000 was lost because he was playing the options market with it. And now I didn't know what to do. Because these people that gave me money, they didn't have money. They were salespeople. One gave me $1,000 to they didn't have money. I just been waiting on them for, you know, all those years. And so I thought, I know I can be a broker. They just make you broker. So Randy has made the world a better place. That's the bottom line. Evening Randy has made the world a better place. Randy, right? And before you knew it, I had a job at Merrill Lynch because they needed to fill their women's quota. I was told women belong barefoot and pregnant by the manager at the time. No, never. So I do have a last question. So you said you in the New York Times profile that you were trying on retirement before COVID hit and now you're back. I got to say, I'm glad you're back. I'm glad you're back. Don't go away. Thank you so much. All right. We really appreciate all your thoughts. And exactly, the economy is not the stock market.

The stock market is not the economy. So important to think about. And thank you for all the work you do for average people. We really appreciate it too. Anytime you guys, you take care. Thanks for joining us, Susie. And for all those who like smart, personal financial advice, be sure to listen to Susie's podcast, Women and Money. Scott, isn't she impressive? Isn't she? She looks good. Super impressive and inspiration. I'm in a sweatshirt. She looked fantastic. And my hair is dirty for days and stuff.

She's just great. She's really great what she does. We're going to be right back after this with wins and fails. Do you feel like your leads never lead anywhere? And you're making content that no one sees? And it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot. It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you,

tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Do you feel like your leads never lead anywhere and you're making content that no one sees and it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot. It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you, tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos,

and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Okay, we're back with wins and fails. Scott, this show is full of information. So give us some more. Give us some more. Info-packed.

Well, what's your win? I know what your win is, but I want to hear it from you. The Supreme Court ruled today that job discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity is illegal and violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. Previously, only 22 states in D.C. passed those protections into law. Now, civil rights protections extend nationwide. The Supreme Court surprised me, and according to the AP, now gay and lesbian people can sue for workplace bias. So I can only be fired for being incompetent just like you, Scott. That is a really great moment for me as a gay person. I cannot believe this took so long. And I was sort of shocked at the Supreme Court.

And it was a pretty definitive, I think it was six to three. It was a very definitive ruling, which was thrilling. This is something I've been writing about a lot over the years. Since I was in college, this has been ongoing. So I'm very thrilled that it's now the law of the land. So especially when they've just been taking away health benefits from people who are transgender, the Trump administration, which that is going to change November 4th, that what they have been doing has been so hostile to gay and lesbian and transgender people. And anyway, happy about that. And your loss?

Loss? Well, the Trump administration. You know, I think Trump, I think Trump this week has had a particularly bad week and continues to not take advantage of his incumbency. It's just amazing how, you know, this whole thing with, you know, Watergate, GAIT. gate, G-A-I-T. He just, I don't know if it will have an impact on the election, but boy, is he, maybe he likes to be down for the count and then rises again. But it's just, he seems to be failing in every way possible. But, you know, we'll see. So, my win is I'm getting to know the CEO of a company, an online trading platform called Public.

And full disclosure, I might invest in it. But they took down, they refused, they will no longer list Hertz shares. And Susie commented on this for trading. And Hertz has basically decided, and I think the SEC should step in here, that if people are stupid enough to see value in a bankrupt company's equity because they've decided like Bitcoin, if two people come together and agree there's worth there, they create a currency that ultimately will end up being zero. So I don't know if this is a – I don't know what the analogy is. It's a Ponzi scheme or like the worst B-League cryptocurrency where people – you know, the people holding it last are going to lose everything. It feels like early E-trade. Yeah, but it's... Early E-trade, if you remember what everyone... Oh, that's a fair point. But so you have this incredible swelling in online trading apps. And the thing I like about public versus, say, a Robinhood is that

they are trying to... They're trading off short-term profits to create a shelter around investing versus gambling. So my win is delisting Hertz by public, this online trading app. And then my loss is, I think the greatest win over the last 40 years has been this massive destruction or reduction in abject poverty around the world. And we talk a lot about income inequality in Europe and the U.S., but we had this great equalization of income or this great reduction in severe poverty that was really probably the greatest victory of humanity of the last half of the 20th century and the turn of the millennium. And we're probably going to give back those gains in the next 24 months because nations like the U.S. used to lead and have the resources and the expertise and the innovation and the comity of man

and the generosity to reach across borders. And we got it wrong a lot, but our heart was always in the right place. And we had the biggest muscles in the world. And we got it wrong a lot, but our heart was always in the right place and we had the biggest muscles in the world. And we're now impaired. We're now weakened and we have to fix our own oxygen mass. So I think there's gonna be tremendous regression and gains that have taken a half a century. And in some, when we talk about that 10-year line,

we knew in the next 10 years that if things kept going the way they were, this arrogance for exceptionalism, this poor fiscal irresponsibility, lack of leadership, a lack of accommodative man, we knew that eventually America was going to cede its leadership position over the next decade. I think it's happened in the last eight weeks. Agreed. Agreed. Scott, I like global Scott. Global Scott is a good Scott. I like that you're seeing the wider.

From Delaware to each corner. You know, I got slapped by someone because I was trying to explain intersectionality to you. But there is an intersection all over the place. No movement register is purchased without a sense of humor. That's my, anyways. Listen to me. I know. They don't like our sense of humor.

But here's the deal. That is very, you understand the intersection of all these forces, and I appreciate it. I appreciate your learning curve going upward and not downward to Chipotle and Cialis as usual. Watch normal people. Hot people. Okay, I will. Hot young people having sex. Oh, my God.

It's so good. It's like a Coors Light commercial from the 80s. It's like a rich girl and a poor guy going back and forth, right, of who likes each other more, right? That's the whole thing. But it's really well done. It is really gripping. I know. I've heard that.

I've got to watch it. It's good. It's done by a group of people that are always putting out great content. Yes. Okay. Normal people. I shall watch. I'm going to watch The Last Dance because my son now is into basketball and has decided he's going to become Steph Curry.

I didn't find it that good, but I don't like sports. Maybe you'll like it. You didn't? I'm going to watch it for him. I don't like sports at all. And all my son talks about is basketball now. You don't even understand. I have to learn.

I must learn. He's now 6'2". He's almost 6'3". He really wants to play basketball. And he's playing it all the time. Yes. Oh, my God. He's 6'2 or 6'3"? My son is quite Yes. Oh my God. He's six, two or six,

three. So does it look like when you guys are out together, does it look like he's dropping you off at kindergarten? I will send you a photo. It's crazy. He grew a foot in the past year. It's crazy. He's a crazy tall.

You know, NYU doesn't have a basketball team, right? We don't have sports. That's not Louie. Louie's six feet tall. This is, this one is,

this is my youngest son. He's going to go to MIT. A young one. Yep. He's six, two. This is, this one is, this is my youngest son. He's going to go to MIT. A young one. Yep. He's six two? Yes. Yes. I'm not going to go into how lesbians procreate,

but his, his mom, his birth mom is, is five 11 and the birth father was six three. So there you have it. Wow. There you have it. Big kid.

I know. Same dad of my two kids, but yeah. Six two, by the way, six two is the perfect height. So anyway, I will watch last night.

All right, Scott. It's the perfect height for a man. Well, he's going to be taller. Anyway, he's eating everything in the refrigerator right now. I just, I have to like put a lock on it soon because he'd like,

he literally ate 20 pounds of blueberries yesterday and we're in a real strict quarantine. So if you don't hear from me, it's because I died from starvation. Anyway, Scott, see you Thursday. Are there any plans between now and then? Are you doing anything? What are you doing? What am I doing? I'm doing, I'm kicking off my Prof G online strategy sprint with a thousand students online, which I'm excited about.

Wow. Yeah, that's going to be fun. I'm doing, oh, you know, I'm doing a virtual presentation for Cannes. I miss Cannes. You know, you have those moments, Cara, where you think, oh, it's just a bummer, this whole pandemic thing. I love Cannes, Cannes, Cannes. I miss Cannes. You know, you have those moments, Kara, where you think, oh, it's just a bummer, this whole pandemic thing. I love Cannes, Cannes, Cannes. I just love it. I think it's wonderful.

Cannes Academy. And, not Cannes Academy, Cannes, France. Bunch of people drinking rosé and licking each other.

Cannes, the creativity festival. Cannes Academy. I love that. Today I learned algebra. No, not Cannes Academy. No, Cannes.. No, Khan.

All right, now we're away from interest. Now Global Scott is gone. Yeah. No, no, no. And Rosé Scott. Rosé Scott has returned. Virtual presentation to Khan talking about advertising and the world. Anyways, but I'm doing a lot.

Why is there – Let me just say, having been there and been on too many redonkulous yachts by force, oh, my God, it's the worst. The worst. So wonderful. The worst, worst place on earth. It's terrible. It's the only place I get to like – it's incredible. I totally rag on Facebook, and then someone from Snap comes up and says,

Condor, partying on the beach. It's just – I'm so loved there. I love it there. I hated it. Oh, it's the best. Oh, I hate the beach. It's just, I'm so loved there. I love it there. I hated it. Oh, it's the best. I hate it there. It's the best. Let's go together then next year.

You and I are going to go together and do something there next year. Let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah, we'll get in one of those little carts. Remember those little carts they ride you around on? You know what we're going to go?

We're going to go to that San Tropez. You always promise me this. You're going to go to, I promise you, you're fucking the Wall Street Journal. I'll take you to the dub dance. No, you won't. You'll me. You're fucking the Wall Street Journal. I'll take you to the dub dance. No, you won't. You'll just call me and want background on the story.

I'll take you to this place in San Tropez. It's so cool. And it costs a fortune. You're going to pay. And like end of twice. Sank on sank? Sank on sank. Right.

Yeah. We'll go there for lunch, you and I together. And then we'll broadcast from there at the overpriced fish. Last time I was there, I saw Cher. She was wearing a leather jacket and Ray-Bans in like 90 degree heat. We will be there, you and I and Cher. Anyway, don't forget if you have a story in the news and you're curious about and want to hear our opinion on, email us at pivot at voxmedia.com to be featured on the show. I'm so glad we ended on a really snotty elite thing to do after talking to the great Susie Orman, talking about the people.

Anyway, Scott, please read us out. Today's show was produced by Luke Vargas. Fernando Finete engineered this episode. Erica Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Rebecca Castro and Drew Burrows. If you like what you heard, please download or subscribe. Have a great rest of the week.

Think about wearing a mask is such a great way to express your citizenship in what is still a wonderful experiment called America. It's a great way to express concern and empathy for others.

Wear a mask. Kara, have a great rest of the week. Thank you. And you look 100% better when you do, Scott. So that's great. I do, don't I? It's my best look

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