Pivot - Bezos's AI Start-up, Thiel's Nvidia Sell-off, and Trump-MTG Breakup

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Kara and Scott are back from their whirlwind tour! They discuss Trump reversing course on the release of the Epstein files, and his breakup with Marjorie Taylor Greene. Then, Peter Thiel joins the tech stock sell-off by dumping his stake in Nvidia, and new reports raise questions about OpenAI's financials. Plus, Jeff Bezos launches a new AI startup, and Kara has some thoughts on the name. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠.Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠.Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠.Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Quantum computers, the next great frontier of technology, offering endless possibilities that stretch the human mind. But for Roscoe Cudullian and the Phoenix Colony, quantum computing uploads the human mind with life-altering consequences. Audibles hit sci-fi thriller The Downloaded returns with Oscar winner Brendan Fraser, reprising his role as Rosco Cudulian in The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. This thought-provoking sequel from Robert J. Sawyer takes listeners on a captivating sci-fi journey, a mind-bending must-listen that asks, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix Colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster, the Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey

where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. for the show comes from MS Now. Home to the Rachel Maddow show, Morning Joe, The Briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you can trust. MS Now is your source of news, opinion, and the world.

Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth you've relied on for decades. They'll continue to cover the day's news and explain how it impacts you. Same mission, new name, and I love these people. MS now. Learn more at ms. dot now. You're like a dog and you're like protecting my purse. Well, it's like cheap-ass discount, Scott Galloway. I don't want cheap-ass to it. I want the real fucking deal. Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And it is 5.14 a.m. here at the Beverly Hills Hotel in Los Angeles. And I had on my calendar that it was supposed to be, we're supposed to be doing it. I said 7 a.m. So if I'm even a little slower than usual, you'll have to forgive me.

No, I think you had a nice relaxing weekend after. Do you miss me? First of all, that's the key question. I don't miss you, but I'm not sick of you. After being together for seven nights and seven cities, I thought it was pretty seamless, pretty good. I know, wasn't it? We had a good time. I had a good time. What were your favorite parts? Oh, wow. All of it. I have to say, everyone's like, what's your favorite city? I'm like, I kind of liked all of them. I didn't, I thought everyone was interesting that we had on stage. I don't think there was a dud amongst. I thought they were the crowds.

You know my favorite part, the audiences? I got to say they were so enthusiastic. I don't know, what was your favorite part? The backstage whiskey, I don't know. No, it was nice. L.A. was nice for me because, you know, as people listened, I had my couple of my mentors show up from when I was a kid. Cy and Paul, right?

Yeah, Cy and Paul. stockbroker when I was 13 and my friend stepfather. When we had your fourth grade girlfriend? Yeah, that was a trip. That was our producer figured out a way to track down. I've mentioned my girlfriend in fourth grade, W. Brubaker, and they tracked her down, and she showed up. Your sister's a fan.

That was wild. Several weeping. You cried a few times? Yeah, but that's just me. That's just a weak day. People love that. And then I'm trying to think who would. who was really good.

I thought, you know what? I thought Chelsea Handler was really good. I think she's a female version of you. She's so talented. No, she's way more talented than me. She's super talented on, like, light on her feet and funny. Both governors were great. Yeah.

We had bands and cheerleaders and everything else. And our staff was astonishing. I have to say, it was Scott turned to me at one point and said, this is completely seamless. This is just really in a good way. Yeah. Super easy. Anyways, you're back in D.C.

Yes, I had, you had a relaxing weekend in Los Angeles, I assume I had a birthday party. I took my mother out to dinner and Louis was here. It was really, it was a lot, it was a lot of stuff, but I feel great. We had a great weekend. Yeah, I went to a bunch of private clubs in L.A. I think I win. I think you do. I went to the living room in this place called the Bird Something or Bird Street. Oh, L.A. definitely has a unique vibe.

How did you find out about these clubs? I never hear about these things. My friend Michael Baruch is, I showed up to you so. I was 17. He was 16. And Michael is sort of like a mini-celebrity and he's totally dialed in. So I get, I mean, it's just such a, think about it. You drop in to L.A. and you're immediately like dialed into whatever's happening that night. Yeah. So he shepherds me around and. Yeah. So anyway, the whole tour was really wonderful. And we were thinking of cities on the plane where we should. go next. Lots of them. Lots of people have written in. I said, where should we go next in one of my posts? And all kinds of cities, Atlanta, Seattle, Miami, Nashville. So we will try to do different cities and maybe one or two of the same. Because L.A. is Scott's home. And San Francisco is mine. I consider it mine. So it was great. So anyway, we had a wonderful time and we thank everybody and everyone was extraordinarily generous to us and made it seem, again, easy, not

seamless, but easy. Oh, you didn't, I'm sorry, you didn't talk about my Bill Maher appearance. Oh, Bill Maher. Oh, my God. Oh, okay. Kara came and immediately just, like, took over my dressing room and started, like, drinking my drinks and, like, threw her, took her shoes off. I did not take my shoes off. Like, you don't go to the audience, you go to the, you know how to go backstage, you immediately going to my room that says Scott Gowler. Of course, they told me.

They said, go to Scott's room. You don't want to go to Farine Zakaria's room? Was that offensive to you? I don't know. No, but you're like, I don't know, you're like a girlfriend staking out your territory or like, or like my mom that I bring on set. I'm like Matthew McConaughey with my mom or something. You liked it.

Come on. We had a good time. You were, by the way, spectacular on that show. We were all sitting backstage. I don't like that type of. I was sitting backstage with the producers and we were watching you and we thought, whoa, what got in Scott Sweeties. Because you were very subdued in the room

because you were nervous. I was nervous. I got very nervous on that show. My dad only watched two things when he was alive. You watched Toronto Maple Leafs hockey and Bill Maher. I feel like he's watching.

I get very nervous. You were, you told Bill that. He was surprised, too, I think. But it was really good. It's a very good show. I would check it out. Scott said a number of fresh and exciting things,

and I think everyone was super impressed. And they also had Fareed Zicaria and Josh Barrow. I love both those guys. I know. That was a good show. It's finally time for four men to dominate a media show. It's time, Kara.

I didn't say a word. I thought it. Oh, I knew you were thinking it. I thought, I was waiting for it. I'm like, oh, here it comes. Here it comes. That's how good I've gotten. I was like, oh, for fuck, thank you.

He does. To be fair, he has a lot of women on that show. And from what I understand, they try to get a lot of women. A lot of women are like, no, which is interesting. So it was interesting. And Susan Bennett, the producer who, like, found me and, like, advocated for me to get on the show. Susan is amazing. Yeah, she's wonderful.

Let me say, I know people like or don't like Bill Maher, but his staff has been there, 20, every person is over the makeup person 20 years. And there is, and Scott made a very salient point when I think caught Bill off guard where he was talking about Scott's book is about to do about procreating and things like that. And he's like, you don't have to have. kids or whatever. And you said, you have kids or you have family, which I thought he knocked him off a little bit there. Well, I said, I said, I said, I said, I think you're full of shit. And I could see kind of reared up waiting it back in my face. And I just said, look, everyone here from the makeup artists, the producers have been here 25 for 30 years. You have kids. They're just wearing time Warner badges. And there's a lot of research that on happiness, the kind of the twist on happiness is

most people, you know, it's not surprising that relationships are the key. But what's sort of surprising is the people are the happiest, are not necessarily the ones that receive the most love, but the ones that have opportunities to give the most love. Yeah. And it's weird to describe Belmar on those terms, but he's clearly got very paternal and fraternal feelings or emotions because everyone around him's been with him forever. I know. It's really interesting because, you know, is he tried to do, oh, I pay them kind of thing?

He started to move to that. And I was like, you don't stay at a job you don't like. You just don't, unless you're like a masochist, but none of them seem like massacist. If someone works with you for 25 years, it means at some point they screwed up and you forgave them, and at some point you screwed up and they stayed with you. It goes beyond just kind of a professional relationship. It means that they feel comfortable with you. You feel comfortable with them and you're loyal to each other.

It's like family, and that's what it is. Yeah. Sorry, Bill, you have kids. That's the way it goes to that, even though you decry it. I'm going to drop my kids off at his house. I'd probably kill them. Anyway, by the way, Saul, Swisher Cats, happy birthday. We've got a lot to get to today, including Jeff Bezos's new AI startup and Peter Thiel's

NVIDIA sell-off. But first, President Trump is urging House Republicans to back the measure to release the Epstein files because, quote, we have nothing to hide. The House is set to vote on it today. Trump also continues to call Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green a traitor. He announced late last week he was cutting ties with Greens referring to her as a ranting lunatic. Green says she's been contacted by multiple private security firms after receiving a hotbed threats. She told CNN that she supports Trump and his administration, but it's not backing away from the Epstein files. Let's listen. I believe the country deserves transparency in these files, and I don't believe that rich, powerful people should be protected if they have done

anything wrong. And so I'm standing with the women, and I will continue to do my small part to get the files released. She also noted that she was sorry, and it seemed sincere, for being such a toxic force in political discourse, which was, it was a flat-out apology, and well, well done. And I know a lot of people like, let's not forgive her, but I feel like you can't forgive the people who are saying they were sorry. I don't know what you do. Epstein survivors released a powerful PSA on Sunday holding a picture of their younger selves from when they met Epstein, very upsetting. they're encouraging House Republicans to vote to release the files, which it looks like it was going to do. I think Trump did that because he knew he wasn't going to win, and then he could make an excuse. Either two things are going online, which is that he's scrubbed the files, or two, that he's going to say there's an investigation of Democrats going on in the files so that they can't release them.

In any case, he didn't want to lose so explicitly. Also, the latest Epstein distraction, the Amelia Earhart records were just released as actor, Christopher Maloney put it, unless she went missing while on a flight to Epstein's Island, no one gives a shit. I love that guy. Yeah. I love that guy. So any thoughts on this? This is a really interesting and continually developing story. I just don't have a feel. I just don't, what I've never understood is why we think, unless the files are part of some process where Trump appointees don't have access to them, I've always thought these things are going to be altered. I don't, this is a corrupt, you know, his personal lawyer is head of the DOJ and an individual

who's a sycophant and a total incompetent and just an acolyte is the head of the FBI. These people at the end of the day have ownership. I guess it's, is it because why would we believe that these things won't be altered when they? Well, because that's a real, I mean, they have to at some point. I think, they have to be thinking their own skins in the very end. They're not going to do anything for this guy. And it's sort of like the mobsters that turn on the top mobster at some point. You know, they always end up turning all those people, if you've ever noticed. Yeah, I just wouldn't put it past them.

I think the crime here has been so brazen. You know what, there was a couple times Bill Maher, where I thought for the first time of my life on this show, you know, everything does not demand my judgment. And I had a couple topics, like on the penny and daylight savings time, I thought, I have no view and no reason to speak now. I feel like I'm watching this, but I don't have a view on it. The only thing I'll say is that, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green is sort of what happens

when CrossFit and a Facebook comment section have a baby and then raise it on Monster Energy Drink. Which she has said. And resentment. I don't know how to feel about her. It's weird. You've always said, and I absolutely believe this, we have to embrace imperfect allies.

And MTG is acting, you know, someone asked us the joke and you said this, who's the leader of the Democratic Party? And it's Marjorie Taylor Green right now. And everybody loves the turncoat because it's good for your own advantage. But something has happened where she has seen polling data and someone in her campaign has said, we are going to do the mother of all pivots here because there's a huge opportunity.

And I feel like she's a real canary in the coal mine for or accounted for the Trump campaign because she strikes me as being politically pretty savvy. Very much so. And she's done some polling in her own district and found out that this positioning of turning on Trump for the first time makes sense politically. Can I ask you from a branding perspective?

because, again, a lot of people are like, I don't believe her. And my joke I was doing on the tour was she's been visited by three ghosts recently, like the whole Scrooge pivot, essentially, in this overnight conversion. I don't know how long it's been going on, and I would love some reporting from people actually close to her if reporters could get to those people of what happened here. Because she is, it's unbelievable, actually, even though I have to tell you, she's incredibly persuasive.

her, I was, I was a, you know, she makes a very, I was a Q&ON conspiracy victim, essentially, which I have seen it from, you know, I've seen it with my mom. I've seen it with lots of people, friends of mine who have suddenly gone crazy, essentially. And nobody's come back, that's the thing. But you think about those people who were KKK and then they teach people not to do violence, or you remember the IRA people, they were having all these non-violet. And at some point, you've got to go, and they were extraordinarily violent people, these skinheads that then teach kids to not do that. At some point, you have to believe, I guess. But talk about the brand thing, because you do have a sneaking suspicion. It's a trick. And of course, AOC said it was because of the Senate race, which I'm like, okay, that may, okay. Like, I'm not offended by that necessarily. They treated her like shit because she's a woman, right? Because they were like, we're not letting you in. And she had to change her brand because it wasn't working for. But people do that every day, you know, whether they're in marriages or, you know, you've got to change or you lose or you don't lose or you, I don't know, because people are very mean about her turnabout.

They did that same thing with George Conway or Liz Cheney or anyone else on the right. But George and Liz, it really wasn't a brand, quite frankly. Well, Liz, it was. So let me back up. The quote-unquote brand positioning, I would argue Marjorie Taylor Green has gone for is I'm going to come across like one of those women or the, type of woman who will return a rotissory chicken to Costco after I've eaten half of it. She just has fucking crazy, weird energy. And, uh, it's like 5.30 here.

Did you do that? Did you do that once? Yeah, well, I've heard that before. Yeah, I've never heard of that, but I like it. But where she's just so fucking crazy, like, yeah, take it back. Just give her her money back. Yeah, right, exactly. But I would argue, okay, so first off from a branding standpoint, people appreciate

what she's doing is actually poor branding because, and I'm not saying it's not good for the country, I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do. It might end up being very strategic. But the reality is people appreciate someone who is consistent, even if they don't agree with the values they're showing consistency on. So quite frankly, John Kerry ran,

everyone gives Vice President Harris a ton of shit. Senator Kerry or Secretary Kerry ran a pretty poor campaign. And that is he came across as just the ad that just absolutely devastated him was a video footage of him windsurfing in Nantucket Harbor and it just said he was against the Iraq war before he was for it, before he was against it.

And it ended with this devastating line in a picture of him on his kiteboard saying, you know, John Kerry, whichever way the wind blows. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so people, like, for example, George W. Bush, incredibly unpopular war in Iraq, probably first ballot Hall of Fame, geopolitical, catastrophic mistake.

But because he never wavered, people respect that. And so from a brand standpoint, people would rather you be just fucking crazy and stay that way or crazy liberal, because those are the people who have been drawn to you. But whereas I think Liz Cheney and George Conaway stayed true to, quite frankly, GOP traditional principles. I don't think they really flip-flopped. I think they're very... They did unnatural things for Trump and then stop.

Right? And they went back to their normal shape, essentially. Yeah, but they did kind of, my opinion on Cheney and Conway is that they're the old GOPers that basically MAGA has cast off from the party. Right, absolutely. Yeah. But she was at the heart of it. She was at the heart of it. But her brand, it'll be very interesting to see what happens. And what will be super interesting is if she's reelected, he's basically aimed her guns at her. Whenever he's aimed his guns at anyone, it has been a direct hit. It has been shocking how the... Well, no, Thomas Massey won despite a direct... He had tried to get Thomas Massey out the last time.

Yeah, but my sense is, I think MTG would be an entirely different ballgame. Because I... Do you know how much her district went for Trump? There's been... A lot, except that the head of the Republican Party in the district is backing her, not Trump. Yeah. That will be if... That's interesting.

I feel like she's... your finger being pulled out of a dyke, so to speak. She's going to become a lesbian of the dike. But go ahead. She could fit. Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to comment on that. So, but she, by the way, Debbie Brubaker, my girlfriend. Lesby.

As you said, or as she said, first thing she said was bats for the other team, so to speak. It's happening a lot to me, Carol. I know that. Anyway, but. You know what I'm going to do for you? I'm going to go straight. Anyway, so at this point, I think that ship has sailed, Carol. I think that ship has sailed.

No, but MTG, I think she's actually a seminal figure in the political landscape, because if she gets reelected and shows that she can basically stick up the middle finger to President Trump, and he's now two years into his lame duck presidency, and you said something on the tour that really sort of struck me, was that you don't think he's going to finish out his presidency. I don't. I really don't now, actually. I really don't. of this past week.

This shift on the Epstein files, whether they scrubbed them or not, he's in a weak position. And I think they sense it. And by the way, I think there are videos. I think there are photos. And I think they're not good.

And that's what's missing here. He's scared of something. It's something. You know, they made fun of it. Actually, they were repeating a lot of stuff you said is, you know, if I was innocent,

wouldn't I release things? And it was the opener for SNL. And it was really quite like saying what you were saying is he looks so guilty the way he's behaving. And Amelia Earhart, I'm like, I'm happy to he released that, although we still don't know where she went. But, you know, we're going to have to live with that unfortunate accident. But he's going to try to do distraction after distraction.

But at some point, you do run out of steam of these distractions. I feel like you can't, unless he attacks a country, that's another Venezuela. But I think he's in a deeply weak position. And I think Green is just an example of that. it'll be interesting if she keeps this up because she can't quite let go of him because that's a bridge too far but she's like him of another time

not this one, not this Trump and I think that's what's powerful because everyone I talk to in the Trump universe who's supportive of him that is shifting is like I liked him but not this stuff not the white not the east wing not the way they're doing ice not all these kind of ridiculous

like not but not this the guy essentially So they like the idea of Trump, not what's happened to him, which is clearly a decline in cognitive and corruption. I don't think it's, I don't think it's, I don't see the cognitive decline. Occasionally he does look like an old man falling asleep, but I don't see the quote unquote cognitive decline. I think he actually presents it still remarkably robust, but. Well, I was in my mom's, my mom's in a senior facility, and there's a guy there. There's always a guy there that's really robust and really losing it, but also very energetically loud.

and but it has dementia. Like, I'm just telling you, you can be very... I had a friend whose mother had dementia and her grandmother, grandmother had dementia. And she used to get out from the beach and start swimming and kept going. She was in great shape. She was very lively, and they had to go get her

because she was so fit and so, like, full of beans, but had dementia. So, we'll see. I don't know. I'm going to impersonate Marjorie Taylor Green, and if my room service is late, I'm going to blame the deep state. Okay, good. Okay. All right. Speaking of what Congress is up to, House Republicans are reportedly circulating a bill model on Trump's idea to lower health care costs, redirecting insurance subsidies directly to people's HSA accounts. They would be for Obamacare enrollees. Mark Cuban called this really dumb, noting that when you send money to people's HSAs, there's no guaranteeing the money will be spent on health care costs. When they're used by insurance companies, they have to spend 85% on those costs. Everyone thinks this is, like, ridiculous. And again, another

bad move by Trump, I think. And he seems to be missing. He's usually politically so savvy, and this is just a dumb idea. Yeah, look, I think it's time. If you were just to look at our deficit, it's $2 trillion a year. If you look at what we spend on health care, $13,000 per capita per year versus $6,500 for the other six members of the G7. If we were able to actually leverage our scale on our innovation to provide health care at the same price as every other nation, that's literally the annual deficit. be a $2 trillion savings. You can't. We're going to have a very difficult time of ever getting

serious about a deficit as long as we continue the regulatory capture. And I don't think there's of health care. I don't think there's a, I literally don't think there's a way to fix or enhance or your idea. Repeat your idea. You repeat it on stage several times. What explain your Medicare? Well, if you look at health care in the United States, four out of five people are dissatisfied with it and they spend $13,000 a year on it. And that's just, there's no product in the world that is this expensive that has an 80% disapproval rate. And then you combine that with regulatory capture where we've monetized health. Health care isn't about health. It's about shareholder value, unfortunately. And we've ended up in the most capitalist health care system in the sense that

if you're in the top 10% of the United States, it's the best health care in the world. The person who, that person in the top 1% lives 12 years longer than the person in the bottom 1%. We've monetized it. It's actually for you and me, it's the best health care system in the world. for everyone else, not so much. It's still frustrating. So I think this has to be like really ripped a Band-Aid off. And what I think, at the same time, Medicare, which is what seniors are eligible for, actually delivers pretty efficiently and people are generally pretty happy with it.

So my idea is to lower health Medicare eligibility by two years a year. And then in 10 years, where are you? You're at 45 on up is eligible for Medicare. And that's 70 plus percent of health care costs because they happen later in your life. And I think you just keep going until effectively you have socialized or nationalized medical coverage. It's time. It's just not working for us. And everyone under could have a very inexpensive under 45.

They don't even need health insurance. I know they don't, but just to, if something happens, right, there's always a small possible. I'm trying to figure out an elegant way that gives the private sector time to respond because there are millions of jobs that, are dependent upon this regulatory capture. And you want to give them time to adjust. But quite frankly, we have to move to an entirely different system. We have to move in the U.K., you know, the NHS granted people have their issues with it. But generally, you get good health care for free.

And it's the responsibility of the entire nation. It's just in Korea. They're perplexed by our health. They're like, why are you not such a bad health care? They can't get over a nation that's the most prosperous nation in the world where when your wife is diagnosed with lung cancer, it also means you're going bankrupt. 40% American households have medical or dental debt. It's a huge, you know, happiness, we're talking a lot about it.

The six of the ten happiest nations in the world are in Northern Europe. And I think a big component of that. Health care. And homes. People think of happiness is having stuff or the ability to have stuff, which America defines. But actually, a bigger component of happiness is absence from fear that things are going to be taken from you. And in the U.S., there's a real fear that your dignity will be taken from you and the health of your loved ones because it's so fucking expensive

and people can't afford it. Health care and homes. That's 100%. And I... I think crime and immigration are big in terms of perception, but in terms of the actual... As it relates to actually...

Mental illness, cortisol, stress. Well, I'm shocked that some of our friends on the left aren't more aggressive about this. You know, Hillary, Secretary Clinton was right. It's just the world wasn't ready for it in 92 or whenever it was. The nation is ready for it. The nation has had it.

And then the system in the UK, the top, I forget, if it's five or 10 percent, go private. Yeah, the effects. And people say, well, that's the aristocracy. And I'm like, no, it's not. Rich people are always going to have better service and better access. Get used to it, folks. Their kids are going to have an easier time getting into college. They're going to have better doctors.

Did you see that journal story? There was a journal story about rich, really, the ultra-rich. Never see people. Like, they go from one. I'll send it to you. Well, that's part of the problem. and that is the top, the most powerful people, by far, in the top 1%, and they're no longer invested in the basics of American life.

They have their own schools. They have their own police force and security now. They have their own health care. They have their own transportation. They have their own planes. So when America infrastructure is crumbling, and when the average American has a difficult time getting good education or feels unsafe, these people don't have no empathy because they've totally extricated themselves

from the American experience. Yeah, this story I'd recommend it in the Wall Street Journal. We have to move on, but one of the things, that when Luigi Mangioni happened, I was like, okay, here we are. This is more and this is going to happen over time. People are furious about this thing, and they don't need to be, right? It's so fixable for our country and it saves money. Just before we move on, two things.

I actually believe if people had any idea how the 1% really live in terms of access, I think there'd be a revolution right now. I think the difference between... Well, it was described rather detailed in the Wall Street. The difference between a middle-class person and an upper-income person when I was growing up was they got to fly business class and they had a Cadillac, not a Grand Trino, but you've lived largely the same life. Now it's a different fucking universe. It is just a different universe. And also, just going back to the UK health care system, the people who go private because they have the money for it, it actually kind of works because they basically take pressure off the system because they're not in the system.

So I think, look, it's time for nationalized health care. It's time for socialized health care in the United States. It's just not working for us. Oh, you socialist. Anyway, let's go on a quick break when we come back. Peter Thiel dumps his stake in InViddy. I'm very eager to hear what you say about this. Support for this show comes from Delete Me.

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Don't figure it. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Roscoe Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Roscoe Cadulian in this space. Follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster, The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide.

Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Scott, we're back. Peter Thiel's Fund has sold off this entire stake in NVIDIA, elevating AI bubble fears. At the time of this taping early Monday morning,

it looks like the markets are in for a muted open after a rocky week of tech stock selloffs. Quite a lot while we were away. The NASDAQ composite ended last week down a half a percentage point led by dips in Alphabet, Amazon, and Meta, even though Warren Buffett bought into Alphabet, which he never buys into tech. talk about this, this move. And let me just add this. Speaking of AI bubble fears, some recent

reports are shedding more light on Open AI's finances. This was jaw-dropping, I thought. Documents obtained by the Wall Street Journal show the company is burning through cash. I mean, it is a forest fire. Operating losses are projected to reach about three-quarters of annual revenues by 2028, mostly due to computing costs, of course, though the company expects to turn a profit by 2030. They say they are. Then they could. This happened with other internet companies. Open AIs spent about $12 billion on inference, essentially computing costs between 2024 and the third quarter of 2025, according to documents reviewed by tech blogger Ed Zittran. The documents also show Microsoft's revenue share payments from Open AIA roughly doubling since

last year. Open AIs said these aren't accurate, I guess. But they are having this, we'll see when they have their IPO. Sam Altman recently said Open AIs revenue is more than $13 billion a year. But these latest numbers don't seem to support that. Any thoughts on this stuff? I'm really interested in your take on the teal stuff combined with. And, of course, what's his name from Masa Son sold off one, NVIDIA in order to get an open AI. But go ahead. Well, I think most people, most market analysts would go, listen, this is just some profit taking.

Nvidia is up 38%. Nvidia was down 8% last week, but it's up 38% for the year. Microsoft down 1.3, up 22. Metis Flat was down 4.5%. It's only up 2% for the year. Amazon is up 7%, but it gave back 8% last week. Alphabet was down 3%, but it's up 45%.

And Apple's up 45% and Apple's up 1.2% last week and up 12% for the year. And the companies that, so, Apple and Amazon are supposed to be most immune from the AI trade. They haven't gone all in. I personally, and again, this isn't financial advice, but I'm increasingly convinced that the string that gets pulled on that takes down the global economy to recession levels,

and there'll be nowhere to hide is the following. I think the quote-unquote trillion-dollar-plus commitments or framework that Sam Altman has made to try and convince everybody, I know more than you, and this is so fucking huge. I need 60 nuclear power plants and 300 billion in compete, from Oracle. I think a lot of that is marketing. And great, if the revenue is doubled at Open AI, it means its stock is 80% overvalue because built into that evaluation of 40 times revenue is that this thing is quadrupling every 12 months and will quadruple every 12 months for

four years. And it's not. And the moment they announce, again, I think this trade unwinds the following way. I think a traditional company, a PepsiCo, a caterpillar, on an earnings call says, look, we are excited about AI. We do think it's going to be a breakthrough, but we are scaling back our investment. And then a bunch of other traditional S&P 500 companies look at each other and make the same announcement. Open AI has to, you know, it becomes clear there's no fucking way Open AI is going to continue to be able to buy $300 billion or $100 billion in Nvidia chips. And the thing that takes the market down, cry frankly, is Nvidia. Because with a $5 trillion dollar market cap, if this thing gets cut in half and there's a two and a half trillion

dollar destruction in the market, which will impact the top 10% of households who are now responsible for 50% of consumer spending, that's how the economy like literally starts to throw up and convulse. And I think we're getting there. The narrative has gone from AI boom to AI bubble. Now everyone, have you, people don't realize because it happens incremental and you said something that was struck me that humans adapt. People don't realize how much the narrative has changed around AI in the financial press just in the last 15 days. Everyone's talking about a bubble now.

I've read so many bubble stories. It's crazy. And of course, as you say, sometimes when that's the case, it doesn't happen, right? Yeah. Over indexes on that. I would say the teal thing, I don't think it's just profit-taking,

although this guy has a, like a tuning fork for money, right? He's very talented investor. He's very talented investor. He figures out some weird tax plan that he never pays taxes again or some weird. gap gains thing that he does. He's always up to some like amazingly ridiculous and greedy thing to do. But, you know, that's him. He's a capitalist. He's going to take advantage of every, you know, nook and cranny of

problems. But it was interesting that it just they see things before people because they're in the middle of it and they can actually see the numbers. And anyone that can see the numbers, you have to pay attention to their moves. And it's not just a profit taking, right? It's not just that. I think, I think probably it's not, like, you sort of feel like, remember, Amazon was all, like, going to be on Amazon.com, that kind of stuff. There was that narrative that went on, and then it wasn't. But this is so much bigger, like, it's so big, and it affects everything.

And it was, and they're already established industries and already established companies, these other companies, when they coughed, nobody cared. In this case, when they cough, everyone dies, essentially. Here's an interesting thing. Jeff Bezos is taking a larger role. in the AI game, he's created a startup called Project Prometheus. Oh, it's so, oh, it's such a whatever thing. It's so mucho, isn't it?

I know, right? By the way, Prometheus did not have the greatest tale, Jeff, just so you know. For people, no, Prometheus gave humans fire, and he defied the gods for doing this, but in punishment for his actions, Zeus condemned Prometheus to internal torment, including

an eagle ate his liver daily. So good luck, Jeff. And he'll be the co-CEO, CEO. The company is focusing on AI with real-world applications and aerospace cars. In other fields, it makes sense. Project Prometheus has already raised $6.2 billion in funding. I'm not sure what is. It's probably making apps, right?

I would assume, like, how you would deploy it anywhere. Like, what's the use of AI? And I think people right now are mostly using it for search, you know, sort of a more robust search or a more robust analytical thing. And so the question is, how do you make it really seamlessly useful throughout, which is what you're talking about? What's the actual ROI on these things? So I don't know. I don't know if you think of anything about that.

Yeah, the thing that kind of marks the age a little bit is weapons of mass distraction. And that is, I think the country is being run by, I think we're bombing fishing boats, which, A, no fentanyl comes out of Venezuela. They don't have any fentanyl production. Yeah, not in fishing boats, that's for sure. And then if these fishing boats with a distribution system or the transportation system for the drug trade, which, by the way, it's not the way you go after the drug trade, the transportation system, they would have, if they were, in fact, faring drugs or fentanyl, of which there's none of Venezuela, it's in Miami, these boats would need to make 20 stops

to refuel, which is sort of logistically improbable, if not impossible. I believe we're bombing fishing boats because of a dead pedophile. I think they every day, as soon as Epstein creeps back into the news, they try and come up with something, you know, whether it's this health account nonsense or an additional 100% tariff on Lithuania to try and distract them. And then the other person that does this, I mean, the most powerful person in the world, the wealthiest man in the world, are literally deploying all of their energy and firepower on distraction right now. And Musk is like, look at anything but the fact. I have a car company trading at, you know, a revenue. any multiple that's never made sense for a car come. Oh, look over here, it's robots. Look over here, it's autonomous.

Look over here. I would agree. It's AI. Like, jazz hands on fucking meth, because it's not, if he just starts talking about Tesla as a car company and the metrics and what the plan is for this company that wraps steel around a motor, people are going to wake up and go, oh, it's a car company

and take the stock down 80%. It's also, can I add something? It's more than that. It's also the idea. that they can't shut up. I was just thinking this last night. I'm going on the show, Jennifer, you know, those two ladies, I've had ladies,

and I had to think of I've had it. I have had it with them talking. Like, it's, when Bill Ackman was giving dating advice, you know, I was thinking, like, I would call him a cheap-ass discount version of Scott Galloway. It was, first of all, stupid advice for young men. He's sort of moving into your space. I'd give him a smack-a-roo, Scott.

But he's sort of copying. Yes, he put out. this whole thing about, can I meet you? You go up to a girl at a bar and you say, can I meet you? Can I meet you? You just did you. Can I meet you? That's his piece of, he, like, started giving dating advice.

I'm like, can you just go back to hedge funds and stop commenting on everything? I bet he saw, like, the Galloway's, number one, I need to get in on this thing, and it gives me a softer side of Sears kind of look. But, yeah, he had, and it's completely bono-hap. But that's what I mean. Bezos can't shut up.

I know, but I try and base my dating advice on research. So just real briefly, gentlemen, women are attracted to men sexually for three reasons. The first is signaling resources. So the bad news is, you know, that's a range of a panel. To say on Bill Ackman, yeah. But you can also signal resources by having a plan and having your act together and demonstrating discipline. It's like signaling not only current but future resources. Second is intellect. What's the fastest way to communicate intellect, Kara? I don't know. Make a joke. Be funny. That's right. So I've told you my impersonation of a woman. I'm laughing.

I'm laughing. I'm naked. And then if you can make a woman laugh, she'll... I should not laugh at that, but it was fun. If you can make a woman laugh, she'll have coffee with her. And then the third thing, and this is the most under-leverage weapon in dating and the advice have for young men, is kindness, and it's true. Women instinctively believe at some point they'll be vulnerable because of gestation, and they

want someone who is a kind man. This all makes sense. Can I meet you? Does not? Yeah. So I don't give guys opening lines. I would start with, hey, where are you from? And then you read body language or... What's that old line? That's a nice shirt. It'll look great on my floor in the morning. Well, my big line is you give them the phone and ask them to take pictures of you. And everyone always says yes, no problem and they're nice. And then you say, now can you turn it around on periscope mode and take a picture of the two of us? And she'll go, why? And you say, because I want to show it to our kids. kids. Oh my God, that's so creepy. That would send me way, way, way. It's 5.50s in the morning.

Like, how can I get out of this place with my head intact? No, no one needs to take a dating advice from a guy who lost his virginity at 19. Yeah, yeah, that's true. No, but there's, there's basics. I did not know Bill was getting into the young men game. I'm going to have to call Richard Reeves and Jonathan Hyde and elbow and mouth. I was like, what do you do it? I was immediately angry, but it was also stupid. So I thought, okay, I'm angry and yet it's stupid. He's like, totally getting into the Scott game. He'll probably call you for lunch, like they all do. Like, let's have lunch in chat. Let's talk about hedge funds, Bill. You're a hedge fund person. That's the only thing we want to talk to you about. Otherwise, I don't mind Bill that much. I think he's

become a clown. I think he's a very talented investor. He's very risk-taking. But he needs to stop talking about everything else publicly. He can talk about a private interest in whatever. He reminds me there's a great show on. Only we can talk about things we're not supposed to talk. Then we have no domain expertise in? No, no, no, we know a lot about it. I do a lot of reporting. No, I don't talk about hedge fund investing. I don't know anything about I ask you.

We just talked about the market. Yes, but you talked about it. I didn't because I don't know anything about it because you know something about it because you've been investing since 13 with Si, apparently. But there's a show called The Beast in Me, and then we're going to move on. And it's with Matthew Rice and Claire Daines,

and it's about this billionaire who lives next door to this Pulitzer Prize winning lesbian writer. It's kind of echoes. And he's such an irritating person. And literally they have a lunch that I have had with a dozen different tech people, rich people. And it was so like, he's so irritating in this show. He also might be a killer.

But it's, anyway, just, he's so irritating. Stop getting into Scott. I was defending you, Scott. I love that. I love how you're like a dog and you're like protecting my purse. Get away from my purse. Well, it's like cheap-ass discount, Scott Galloway. I don't want cheap-ass to it.

I want the real fucking deal. You want that new leather smell? You want that new smell of... No, I don't want Bill Ackman to give dating advice. I'd like him to move along. I'd love hedge fund advice from Bill. I smell so weird right now. I bought Axe spray in the airport because I didn't have deodorant.

I smell like a 19-year-old. No, 19. Try 12. My sons were done with it at 13. Anyway, ooh, Axis is the worst smell. I just have a memory of really bad-smelling young men. Oh, my God. Just to put a finer point on the actual substance of the conversation.

So at the peak of the dot-com bubble, all of big tech accounted for about 34% of the S&P. There's just 10 companies now that account for 40% and the 10 biggest companies in tech back then were 27%. So these companies are 50% more expensive as a percentage, or they account for 50% more as a percentage of the total S&P. So we are now in this was- Look at below territories. Well, if you look at what happened these companies in 2000 and you look at their peak from which they fell, these companies are now 50 percent, have 50 percent more market cap as a percentage of the total market. And then the Buffett test, where you take essentially the market cap of the S&P as a percentage of GDP.

He likes it. I guess normally it trades around 80 or 90 percent. It's trading at 220 percent right now. Yeah. Well, Buffett is mostly in cash, except he bought some Google. Shares. Oh, he's just, do you know he's assembled a war chest of $310 billion in cash? He did buy, he did buy Google. Yeah, he bought Alphabet. That was interesting. And Apple and Amazon are probably the least vulnerable because they have not gone all in on AI, like everybody else. But the narrative has changed really dramatically, which isn't to say, which isn't to say that the market, my friend Barry Ritholtz reminded me that 97, when everyone said said the market was overvalued, the NASDA doubled from that point. But this feels really, really wobbly. Going to go fast, that's my feeling.

All right, let's go on a quick break and we come back. Bonds are thriving. Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn Jobs. As a small business owner, your work hours aren't dictated by the hands on a clock. Your business is on your mind 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in by making it easy to post your job, share it with your network, and qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place.

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See, Scott, I'm availing myself to your expertise. We're back with more news. So bonds are having a moment, which is usually seen as a steady, predictable investment is having its best year since 2020. So far, the Bloomberg U.S. aggregate bond index has returned around 6.7% in 2025. And you know who's noticed, President Trump,

He's bought at least $82 million in corporate municipal bonds since the end of the summer. According to Ethics Forms, we're talking about over 175 separate purchases here. And here's the interesting part. A bunch of these investments are in sectors that are so happy to benefit from his own policies. What a surprise. And by the way, I recommend watching Scott Pelley's piece on 60 Minutes about the Binance CEO pardon. It's not new reporting by any stretch of the imagination, but he brings it together nicely. Anyway, is there a smart move for non-president?

explain this for the people. Again, I shall not comment because I don't know. But can I meet you? But go ahead. Sorry. It's just, it's been a bit of a flight to safety. Interest rates aren't, they're historically, not that high, but in terms of recent history, they feel fairly rich. And I think what's going on here is pretty basic, and that is a lot of investors feel the way I do. And that is, we have no idea where to invest or find value. It feels like with gold up 55%. It's like, where do you go? where all the stocks are overvalued, even foreign markets are getting, not frothy, but what feels like fully valued. And also it feels like there's a lot of risk in the system. So if

you return on bonds is fairly decent, and bonds are in the top of the cap structure, meaning that as long, Nvidia could get cut by 90%, but it would likely still be able to pay off its debt or its bonds. And so people generally think of bonds as being a safer instrument, and they're getting they're getting actually paid for the risk, most people would argue right now, because of the run-up in interest rates and inflation. So kind of a safe haven't. It's like people look at the market and go, I don't know where. When the Dow was trading at a P of 25 and the Russell, 2034, with the median historical at 19 and 15 respectively, like, okay, stocks are just too goddamn expensive. So there's been just a bit of a flight into the bond market, which has rallied the bond market. I think it's,

I don't think it's that bonds are such a great deal. I think it's a quote-o-quote risk-off strategy, and there's more money to just flow it out of stocks into the bond market. I think it's a pretty basic kind of fear index. What do you think about Trump moving into them? You know, I don't know what's going on there. I don't know what's going on there.

I think what's going to happen, I think the biggest thing that's going to happen in the debt markets is that essentially America is a giant bet on AI in terms of- Right. As you've noted, yeah. Everything is about AI now. If these companies get cut, I don't see any way that the global economy doesn't go into a recession.

Because now the S&P dominates global market cap, and these 10 companies are 40% of the S&P. So 20% of global market cap is in 10 companies. But if you think about, I mean, if this thing comes undone, it's just so, I don't know, I mean, it's just, it's just, I mean, it's just, quite frankly, it's just kind of scary. I'm sitting here thinking, wow, how do I get into bonds? What are you going to put your money in? When you put gold up your ass? What are you doing? Where do I, you know, where to gold up your ass?

Okay. Where do I put my money? Cash, that's what. And then, of course, you don't want to miss it. Yeah, it's a very fraught time, I think. Anyway. Oh, I'm sorry, but you asked about Trump. I'm sorry, I'm all over the place here.

The biggest thing that's going to happen in the bond market, or it's going to be a weird thing, not only is America a giant bet on AI, Trump's presidency is a giant bet on AI because I just don't think he would... Very good point. If the market wasn't up 14... If the market was down 14%, not up 14%, I don't think we'd have National Guard in cities, national guard. I just think he'd be so much less...

The S&P and the Dow continue to be the most damaging metrics ever invested because they give the illusion of prosperity and that everything's all right. It is not. And they also credit or blame the president unfairly for the market's machinations. If the AI trade on wines, it's going to be terrible for Trump. So I think what he's going to do, I think he's going to backstop these enormous purchases. And what I mean by that is if Open AI says, if we need $500 billion to buy all these or commit to all these chips, I think they're going to ask the government to backstop the debt,

which is, by the way, socialism. But I think he's going to do that. But I wonder what's going to happen to the credit markets when all of the- kidding, that's going to drive MAGA crazy. He is going to lose so much election-wise if that happens. Well, the reason why Treasury bills and are so pay a lower interest rate than corporate bonds is corporations are supposed to take greater risks, and also they're not as credit-worthy as the U.S. government.

And when you start melding the private bond market and the U.S. Treasury market, you're basically saying, okay, these are no longer, these take on the risk profile of corporate bonds then, which could raise interest costs. Interest costs are already our biggest, have become, I think, our biggest expense behind Social Security. There are trillion dollars now. And that's it, and that's even despite the fact that they trade, you know, most people would argue like a very safe instrument.

He would basically raise our, I believe he would raise our interest rate cost by 100 or 200 billion a year. He better not do that. I think that will be. Margie will be mad about that one. Oh, you're right. we'll lose their shit over that. Anyway, Scott, one more quick break.

We'll be back for wins and fails. Support for the show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

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and berry to find your favorite. That's drink AG1.com slash pivot to try AG1 today. Support for this show comes from MS now. We, the people, in order to form a more perfect union. These words are more than just the opening of the Constitution. They're a reminder of who this country belongs to and what we can be at our best. They're also the cornerstone of M. M.S Now. Whether it's breaking news, exclusive reporting, election coverage, or in-depth analysis, MS Now keeps the people at the heart of everything they do. Home to the Rachel Maddow show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Saki, and more voices you know and trust. MS Now is your source for news opinion and the world.

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I don't think he's my friend, but I talk to him and he's a really terrific guy. The administration's war on late night continues. President Trump is called on NBC to fire Seth Myers after the show featured multiple roasts at his expense. Seth is very funny. President said Myers was suffering from TDS or Trump derangement syndrome and described his performance as uncontrollable rate. It's ridiculous.

In a normal world, that's fine. He can complain about it. He's obsessed with late night. He's obviously up late or something's happening by himself in his room with his clicker. And what really irritated me, once again, fucking FCC chair. in car, we shared the post. You suck up toady. Do you understand the jig is friggin' up for this guy at some point? And you are going to go down hard. Hard, let me just say. He should not be sharing this post about firing people. When he got into trouble before saying, you know, we're

coming to get Jimmy Kimmel. Remember that? We had to take back. I thought, I just, he is such a dumb fuck. I don't know what else to say. But Trump can yank. He yammers on about who. whoever, Marjor Taylor Green, I think he is putting her at risk, by the way. And by the way, call out to Dana Bash for pointing out, Marjor, you weren't concerned about this until it was directed at you. And Green said that's a fair criticism, and you're right. But in this case, Brendan Carr continues to make the same stupid mistake because he's not very smart. My win, S&L's week, Glenn Powell, was so spectacularly good on S&L. He was so good. He really fell into it really beautifully. He's shockingly surprisingly funny because he's so handsome and he took off

his shirt, of course. But there was an S&L AI photo sketch that it's not a new idea that AI photos are demented, sometimes can be demented or videos that you make. That's been a trope for this AI slop thing and weird photos with six hands. It was so funny. It was about a grandmother and their kids give them this AI photos that turn old photos into AI photos and they come alive. It was so funny. I recommend everybody see it. It just really encapsulated, like, how fucking ridiculous these AI photo enhancements are. And I just think Glenn Powell, kudos.

Okay. So my win is Tom Cruise received his first Oscar. I was here in L.A., and I kept seeing all these stars at the hotel. And I guess last night was the Governor's Award or something? Governor's Awards, yeah. And Tom Cruise was given an honorary Oscar for his contribution to the medium. But just, I've always thought that Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt, and I think the same is actually true of Channing Tatum.

He's in his cool movie called Roof Man. But I think these guys are so good-looking that it actually diminishes their, the perception of just what fantastic actors they are. Is that what happens to you? That does happen to me. Me and Bill Ackman. People don't appreciate. But just some of the movies, his body of work,

obviously the Mission Impossible and Top Gun franchises. But people forget he was in risky business when he was a, you know, I think he was a teenager. Edge of Tomorrow, Minority Report, Rain Man, the Color of Money, where Paul Newman finally got an Oscar, collateral, a few good men, Jerry McGuire. You can't handle the truth. Sorry.

In my favorite film of his, Magnolia, I thought, directed by Paul Thomas Anderson, I thought he should have got the award for that. Tropic Thunder. In the Stiller movie where he plays Harvey Weinstein, where he does his, what is it? Eyes Wide Shut. Tropic Thunder. I mean, this guy. Tropic Thunder, if you want to laugh your ass off, Tom Cruise is fantastic. Taps, the Last Samurai, which was actually a pretty good film.

Even his bad films are pretty good. All the right moves, remember that. I like the Irish one. I hate to say it. I like the one. He's an Irish. Far and away. I'm a huge Tom Cruise fan.

Despite the Scientologist, I think he's a creepy in real life, dude. I have to say, I've enjoyed his. He's not creepy. He's a Scientologist, but he seems like, I've heard he's a really nice man. On sets, he's very generous. He's got that Taylor Swift generousness.

He's tough on people in a good way. I would agree. You don't hear. It's just the Scientology thing. Vanilla Sky with the most beautiful woman in the world, Penelope Cruz. Anyways, congratulations. I think Tom Cruise is just an incredible talent.

Nice, nice. Okay, I like that. I'm going to agree with you. And anyways, my fail is the boring stuff, and that is, I just think we are in a crazy fucking overinflated market right now. If you look at even the emerging markets index is up 30%, that's outpaced the S&P. That was the trade I recommended at the end of last year was foreign stocks. that trade's kind of over. Bitcoin's at an all-time high, $126,000. I mentioned gold is up 55%.

And now, I mean, everything is just so expensive. And whenever we get to this level of froth, it sometimes there's not a crash. Sometimes it just plays out over a decade, which is sometimes even worse. It just goes, there's been entire decades, Kara, where the market just goes flat. Like New York real estate typically doesn't go down. It just goes sideways for 10 years. I was looking, I was reviewing all my investments over the last decade, and actually my real estate, the place I own in Manhattan, has performed the least well. And that can happen when a market is frothy. Sometimes it's not a big dramatic media event. It just goes flat for 10 years. And the SMP forward PE typically averages 17. It's now at 22. It's only traded above 22 times

twice since 1985 during the hold wait for it dot com bubble and the COVID-19 pandemic and after that the market fell off sharply each time anyways anyways my i'm usually i mean granted you know Andrew rostorkan and josh brown from midholz management have always reminded me and i need to do this and it's one of my many flaws as investor you have to constantly ask yourself what could go right And Andrew says that it's the optimists who have vastly beaten the pessimist in the market over the medium and the long term. Because of demographics and innovation, the market continues to kind of churn up. But this feels that the argument or the loss is, I think it's unhealthy for an economy to have this kind of concentration of power and value. It creates fragility.

And the corruption layered on top of it. Well, that doesn't help. No, bad decisions. But just the... Backstopping open AI? What a terrible decision. That would be terrible. But Nassim Talib says, he talks about fragility and anti-fragility and what the definition of robust is. And a robust industry is one where any one or number of companies go out

of business and it wouldn't threaten the entire sector. So McDonald's goes out of business. You're still going to be able to get your cheap, fatty calories. So actually the fast food industry is very robust. Our economy is becoming very fragile because of the regulatory capture and also just the hysteria around this space. And we now have 10 companies. that are literally the string that if they get pulled on puts the global economy into a recession.

So it's boring, but my fail is... Scott's worried in L.A. Well, a lack of antitrust. When it's great in L.A. I sure like. Anyways, that's... My win is Tom Cruise finally getting the recognition he deserves, and my fail is we have let our economy

become way too concentrated across a small number. We have an anti-fragile, or we have a fragile economy right now. based on this trade, which is, by the way, folks, it's now more crazy town than it was in 99. Correct. All right, that's really bracing and sobering. Anyway, we want to hear from you.

Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott Universe, this week on with Kara Swisher. I spoke with filmmakers Ken Burns and Sarah Botstein about American Revolution, their new six-part docu-series. airing on PBS, I highly recommended. Let's listen to a clip of Ken talking about young people. They're more open. They're persuadable.

They went with the Democratic Socialists, you know? Democratic Socialists don't kill Jews. National Socialists kill Jews. Many of our allies have been or are Democratic Socialists. I'm not worried about Democratic Socialists. I'm worried about dictators. That's what I'm worried about. and so are they, because they told us

which way they wanted to go. Okay, that was a great interview. And again, I recommend the show. And it's really full of really things I didn't know, and I'm a history buff. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Eurne Eternier-Ton engineer this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Mia Zavereo, and Dan Ceylon.

Nishat Kura is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at NYMag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things, tech and business.