Pivot - Biden Campaign Crisis, Trump and the Tech Bros, and Elon Exits California

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Kara and Scott discuss Biden's campaign crisis, and what happens next. Then, a number of Kara's favorite tech bros are lining up behind Donald Trump and J.D. Vance. How much influence could they have if Trump wins the election? Plus, Elon plans to relocate X and SpaceX to Texas, and Google is in talks for its largest acquisition ever. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Procrastination. Putting it off, kicking the can down the road. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Carpet in the bathroom. Like, why? In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Hello from Nantucket, Scott. Yeah, what are you doing in Nantucket? That is literally the last place on earth I imagined you. I know. Well, I'm here because Bill Cohen invited me to be at the Athenaeum to talk about my book and about J.D. Vance, etc., etc., etc.

Wow. Which is a perfect time since I know him. I know all his donors. And so my book becomes relevant again because I said they would do this. I'm sorry. You said that all these, the gang, literally the lamest gay club in history. It's like, and by the way, I went to that club. My friend, Lee Lotus, who came out right after we moved to New York.

And I used to go to gay clubs, which by the way, are the best place to meet hot straight women. Because they're all like, they go with their brothers. And they're like, oh my God, you're a straight guy that comes with his gay friends to gay clubs? Can I perform oral sex on you? I mean, can I be your friend? Okay. It was just like the best place to meet women. Anyway, I'm in Nantucket with our friend Bill Cohen.

We're going to be talking about a range of things, including especially the book. And I have to say, I've been to all your rich people places. I've been to Aspen, all the places Scott goes. I'm just checking them out. Why is everything gray here? They were telling me there's only 10 grays you can pick from of the house. It's hard. I love the sort of like Third Reich zoning.

I love that when they do that, that everything has to look the same. They're arguing about everything. You know, they were arguing over this clam shack. These billionaires, Bill wrote about it. These billionaires have all these houses on the wharf that used to be owned by poor fishermen, but they're now worth $4 million, even though they're very small. And then this clam shack was opening to replace another place that closed, like an ice cream place. This shack, I just bought a lobster roll there. It was $43. Let me just say it's not a shack. And so

the billionaires are mad they're opening because they may have dancing or something. Like anything interesting here, it's like Goody Proctor, right? You know what I mean? Like it's. There's a chicken box there. There's some down and dirty stuff. There's the Cisco brewery. I don't know if you've been downtown.

It's actually I didn't want to like it. I have. I walked around and tried to pick between which Lily Pulitzer shirt I should buy. Look, I'm wearing. It's all the fashion is awful. I got this one. And also the people at some of the least hot people in the world. They're all like straight. I would say so. It's Disneyland for conservative finance bros. This is what I mean. No, it's because there's no

interracial mixing. The thing that's going to solve bigotry is the next generation of kids are going to be so fucking hot and we're not going to be able to tell what race they are that are literally in bigotry. Yeah, I'm sure that's how it's going to work. You think? Go to Provincetown. Problem solved. You and I are going to go to Provincetown. Problem solved. I'm taking you to my places now. Provincetown. Provincetown.

We are going to have some fun. We are going to go to all the boat slip. The gays love daddy. They think I'm gay friendly because of you. You're going to the boat slip with me and dancing. And I don't dance, but I'll dance with you at the boat slip. Yes. If I drink enough, I'm a great dancer.

That is happening. And then we'll make out. It'll be fantastic. Anyway, I'm here. I was in Park City. Same things. Rich people. The same rich people. Park City? I haven I was in Park City. Same things. Rich people, the same rich people.

Park City? I haven't been to Park City. Did you like it? I've been there many times, the Sundance and everything else. It's fine. It was at the montage. Once you go to Aspen,

there's no going back. Rich? No, I gotta say. It's just more rich people. It's like an updated version of the holiday. I'm not comfortable. It doesn't have any edge. I'm sorry.

Where do you hang out with the regular folk, Kara? It doesn't have any edge. I'm sorry. Where do you hang out with the regular folk, Kara? There's no edge. In D.C.? In Calorama? Keytown. DuPont Circle, Keytown. That's real middle class. It's not middle class, but it's not this.

This is ridiculous. This is just like the 100 millionaires are yelling at the billionaires, and the 10 millionaires are yelling at the 100 millionaires, and the millionaires are poor here. I mean, it's just nutty. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including continued calls for Joe Biden to step aside. It's looking like it may be working as the president faces another setback. He has COVID. We're so sorry for him. Plus, we'll discuss Elon and the other tech bros making a hard right turn to Trump. They attacked us a little bit, Scott, but I listened to everything and they were wrong, as usual.

Oh, so is the all right. Apparently, Megyn Kelly was yelling at me yesterday online. Really? Megyn Kelly? She's nuts. I'm sorry. I like Megyn. That disappoints me. No, don't. Wait till you see what she said about you. Don't. Megyn? Yeah. Megyn likes me. I've been on her podcast now. No, no. Just go and see.

Go and see. Really? She's lost her ever-loving mind, Scott. You have such a bad judge of people. You think? That's a nice thing to say. Some people. Like Megan, she's so nice. No one thinks she's nice anymore.

Really? No. I enjoy going on her show. We're going to move on to other personalities, TV personalities. But they're not saying nice things about it? That hurts my feelings. I think we were making fun of the president. We were talking about the memes associated with the assassination attempt.

Oh, no, it was me. Why are they going after you? I'm the one that made the tasteless jokes. Because I'm right next to you, Scott. Because Megyn Kelly is a terrible person now. Anyway, nonetheless, it doesn't matter. I am with you, Scott. We were talking about the memes around the president's attack.

We both called the attack heinous. I got the jokes off of their favorite platform. I got the jokes off of Twitter. That's what we're talking about, all the jokes that were there. And we also said it was heinous and terrible and it was sad that it was not political. We were trying to depoliticize it.

They just want, they're coming for us, Scott. These bros are coming for us. What does that mean? How can they come for us? Insult us on Twitter? Because they think they're empowered now because they bought themselves a vice president. So we'll get to that. Anyway, let's get to another personality that we both know. Joe Scarborough is, quote, surprised and disappointed after NBC News did not air Morning Joe the Monday after the Trump assassination attempt. Scarborough says NBC told the show's host that it would be preempted by one breaking news feed on all the network channels on Monday. Later in the afternoon, host Nicole Wallace and Ari Melber somebody else to host the show. It sounds like you and I. That was a you and I thing we would say. How dare you? I dudgeoned. They had faced public backlash from talent earlier this year when they

added former RNC chair, Ronna McDaniel, as a contributor. That's Cesar Conde is running that and others. It's nuts. And of course, they were trying to minimize their exposure to Trump. I absolutely don't get that. I think they are so talented. I think the show is so well done. And so we're going to let, they're kind of center left, but we're going to let just center right and hard right people speak every day. They are so good at what they do. A ton of people, smart people, turn on their program in the morning and depend on them for thoughtful commentary. The guy that doesn't get enough credit, is it Willie

Geist? Willie Geist, yeah, he's on the show. He was on a little discussing this with them. He's so good. He is good. Very pleasant fellow. And the producers there, the people behind the scenes do such an amazing job. I was really, look, the bottom line is they fucked up and that's okay. They're allowed to make a mistake, but be clear, that was a mistake. They're there to, people trust them, think they're smart. They don't always get it right. But Joe, I find Joe courageous. I love how strong, in my view, and outspoken he's been on Israel. I think Willie has got this kind of nice, thoughtful, measured approach to him. And Mika tries to keep it real and push back on people. I think they do a fantastic job.

No, I agree. I think the problem with the owners above them, same thing with CNN, is that these sites, CNN or MSNBC or any of the cable networks, are a very small amount of their money making and a very large amount of their headache making. And so if they're going to be doing deals, if Trump wins, they don't want to get on the wrong side. They're already on the wrong side of Trump, just so you know. Yeah, it's too late. That ship has sailed. You're on the very wrong side. You know what the greatest thing about having economic security is? I don't want to say I'm not counsel. I don't want to be shamed. I don't want to do anything that upsets people. I don't want to embarrass myself or my family. But the wonderful thing about economic security is I just don't give a flying fuck.

If I get it wrong, I get it wrong. But I think we're bigger. Quite frankly, we're bigger than Vox. I don't think they can fire us. That's an arrogant thing to say. I guess they can't. But I don't think they can fire us. So, like, what?

It's just such a- It's not that. It's that we do what we want and we do a good job at it. That's what we hope to do. When we make mistakes, we say we do. We do that all the time. And, you know, whatever. It's just so- That's why you and I don't belong with a corporate citizen. But I understand. Why are we going to be- We say we do. We do that all the time. And, you know, whatever.

That's why you and I don't belong with a corporate citizen. But I understand. Why are we going to be—why have we pissed off everyone? Why are we going to be canceled? We're not pissed off. I'm so adamant. I'm literally in a bubble. I'm blissfully ignorant. Let me just tell you, it's not everyone.

It's this group of systemic right-wing lunatics that want to attack us and they want to use us as straw men. Are you sure they just don't want to have sex with me? Is that what's going on here? Yes, that's it. Is that what's going on here? Yes, they can't have you and therefore

they're very angry. That's how we'll explain it to everybody. Anyway, ignore it. It's part of a plan. Oh, I am ignoring it. Because Elon echoed it. It's just,

it's part of their fucking plan. Just ignore them. Yeah, but you're really good. I've noticed you're really good at hitting back. But I didn't. Am I over on Twitter hitting back at all? I saw a couple threads things that were very funny.

Yeah, they are funny. But it was the J.D. Vance stuff, but I thought that was pertinent. It's like these people, well, let's get to that in a minute, because it's about these guys who bought themselves a vice president. Anyway, speaking of the guy who bought himself a vice president, Elon Musk said he's moving the headquarters of SpaceX and X to Texas. His reason? He doesn't like the new California law that prohibits California school districts from acquiring parents to be notified of a change of a child's gender identification. And Musk posted on X, I did make it clear to Governor Newsom about a year ago that laws of this nature would force families and companies to leave California to protect their children.

In 2021, Musk moved Tesla's headquarters from Palo Alto to Austin, though he has a huge presence in California. Musk has a transgender daughter. But let me just say, that's not quite what the rule says. The new law says teachers aren't going to be forced to. That's what the law says. It's much more complicated. I've asked Governor Newsom to come on to talk to us about it, and I'm hoping he will, because I told him we thought his messaging, I said you in particular, thought his messaging was wrong. So hopefully he'll come and we'll discuss it. But it's just another hissy fit by the king of hissy fits. Yeah, there was a couple of things that really frustrated me about this.

One, first off, the notion that this was the final straw for Musk. This is it. This is it. This is it. It's not that I want to lower my tax rate. It's that's it. They put up a stop sign on Guerrero on 21st. I'm out of here. There's drug addicts in the street running wild.

It's just so disingenuous that these folks sitting on unrealized capital gain have all of a sudden just gotten incensed by California politics. But the thing that really upset me here was we are just so bad at messaging. The majority of America believes that this is an issue of Democrats getting in the way of the parent-child relationship and using schools to get in the way of that. And it is anything but that. The messaging here should be the following. advanced a white Christian nationalist agenda, we do not believe the government should be inserting itself into schools. And as someone who has served on the board of a school, just let me, this is a ridiculous, one of the things I'm very drawn to about Republican ideology, of which there is almost none left in this current crop of techno-libertarian weirdos, is that people, that America should defer to individuals around important decisions. And when it comes to your kids in the school and the nuance and complexity of sexuality and what, I mean, you leave it up to the individual. And I would bet that a teacher and a school and the parent and the kid are going to make better decisions than some law.

See abortion. saying, look, we don't believe government should be intruding not only in a woman's bodily autonomy, but also we don't think government should be inserting itself between schools and families. But they have totally out-positioned us and positioned it as this is the government getting in between a parent's rights to know what's going on with their kid at school. That's not what this is. Of course, but people like Chris Rufo and others, they just manipulate information. Well, but we've got to do a better job manipulating back. I agree with you.

I've invited Gavin Newsom on. We'll see if he comes. I wrote him. I sent him that. I said, do you need to explain this? You're doing bad messaging, and we would love to have you on here. Well, also, Jernar had a lovely heart shape with the two of them breaking up. Very handsome picture of Gab

and a less handsome picture of Elon. It was very lovely. The only thing that really sort of gets under my skin as it has for a long time is the way he treats his children. You know, there's a few people with transgender children who are just heinous about trans issues. But, you know, I don't want to get between a person and his kid,

but I think it's terrible. Anyway, let's move on to something more techie. Alphabet is in talks to buy cybersecurity startup Wiz for $23 billion. Just heard from their CEO, which I'm excited to talk to. The move would mark Alphabet's largest acquisition ever. Wiz offers cybersecurity software for cloud computing, and Google's cloud business revenue grew 26% last year. The startup is backed by notable Scum Valley venturers, including Sequoia Capital, Andreessen Horowitz, and Lightspeed Venture Partners. They're

a very quiet little firm that does rather well, I think. You know, this is a big purchase. It could have some antitrust issues. That's, I think, probably the biggest worry of anybody buying anything. And, you know, Dave Zasloff has complained about it, lots of people, about the inability to merge. So Google will have an uphill battle here because they're also in a battle with the Justice Department. Yeah, but that's the key point is I think they've decided Trump's going to be reelected and the DOJ and FTC scrutiny will be emasculated. I think what this says is that they believe that Trump's going to be reelected and they don't need to worry about this because there's not enough time between now and November for the DOJ or the FTC to block this. They can announce they're investigating it. To me, this says they've done the scenario planning and they think that the DOJ and the FTC are about to be defanged by a Trump administration.

I mean, you know, I think they should look at all these things like they did with the purchase that Microsoft made of Activision. Is it really, you know, they shouldn't just say no to these big companies if they're not integrating in the incorrect way. That's one thing if they're doing it in the incorrect way. But if they're doing it to add on something and there's plenty of competition, I'm a little less in agreement that every single thing should be scrutinized. It's just me. I thought they'd lose that antitrust case, and so did you, Microsoft. You're right. Being big on its own is not a reason to block a merger. Now, the problem is, do they bundle something and then make it impossible for every other cybersecurity firm

to compete by using their existing relationships with the enterprise or whatever. But I think what this is, is they're saying they want to go more vertical and be able to offer cybersecurity as a component of their cloud offering, which I think is really smart. There's lots of competition in this area. And given all the hacks, I would imagine that saying we have great cybersecurity that you can flip on in terms as another feature, another offering of our cloud offering. I think it makes a lot of sense. But what I, at the end of the day, again, I thought the most fascinating thing about this was that these guys are saying, okay, Trump's going to win. Yeah. Although it's

a careful purchase. I don't think it's like they bought a search company or a studio or something, something that would cause more attention to them. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see. I think it's very akin to Microsoft buying Activision. That's me, I feel like. Let's get to our first big story. Joe Biden has tested positive for COVID, sidelining him at a difficult time for his campaign as he calls for him to drop out, continue. That didn't go away after the assassination attempt, which both Scott and I decry on former President Donald Trump. He is now out of commission. more receptive to hearing police to step aside. According to New York Times, Congressman Adam Schiff, big name, became the highest profile Democratic lawmaker to publicly call for Biden to move aside, saying on Wednesday it's time for him to, quote, pass the torch. He is hand in glove with Nancy Pelosi, who's running this show, who's running the entire ninja operation. She's really a sharp cookie. Oh, boy, I never turn my back on her, as I said. Between the COVID diagnosis and dwindling support for Biden's candidacy, there's a couple things. The new AP poll conducted before the assassination attempt of Trump had nearly two-thirds of Democrats saying Biden should withdraw and the party should choose a new candidate. to me and others very supportive of Biden in the past, reportedly conveyed to the president that donor cash is drying up now. He's been sort of running that operation. Axios is reporting that several top Democrats believe Biden will exit the race possibly as soon as this weekend. In the last couple days and hours, we're learning what major Democrats are saying about Biden's

viability behind closed doors. The Washington Post just reported former President Barack Obama is telling allies that Biden needs to reconsider his candidacy. Nancy Pelosi has warned Biden of the dangers that Democrats face if he stays in the race, including the House and the Senate, according to multiple outlets. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is not with Joe, also privately told Biden he should step aside. ABC News reported, no, these are all calculated leaks. Do you know what I mean? Like I said, the only thing that's going to get them out is Taylor Swift or Obama, Pelosi, Schumer. So here we are. Yeah. I mean, you have more probably inside baseball than me, but if I were to guess what's

actually going on, I think Obama has been the puppet master here. Really? No, I think it's Pelosi. You think it's Pelosi? Because she wants to keep that. She worked her ass off to run that house and she cannot lose. She does not want, she wants the house back, because especially if Trump wins, which is a possibility, even if they replace Biden, to keep one of the Houses of Congress, they must, and the House is the most important one. And oddly, I think kind of a seminal character here that people haven't talked about is Jeffrey Katzenberg, and supposedly Jeff, who is running the fundraising,

that's the mother's milk of politics is money, right? And supposedly he called, and he can just kind of give them straight numbers. And supposedly those straight numbers are drawing, you know, is it fundraising has stopped. It's come to a halt. And- Yeah, there was a Dembargo by one Hollywood guy. You hear that?

Let's do a Dembargo until they give, even to Senate and House candidates, which is stupid. But in order to put the squeeze on them, that's what they're doing. Well, what big donor is going to be giving money right now? Yeah, I know. Well, the thing is, you could give money in other ways. You could create it for a new candidate or whatever. Behind the scenes, the DNC is pushing back on its plan to nominate Biden in a virtual roll call by a week, giving delegates a little more time. It's now happening August 1st. So they've got till August 1st to get this done. I think the only people Biden is paying attention to is his wife and possibly his son Hunter.

You know, I think his aides have got to be talking to Nancy and Chuck and Hakeem Jeffries and Obama. They're all in the speed dial. Steve Ruschetti, Mike Donilon, and Anita Dunn. They have to know, right? And I assume Ron Klain. Those are the people super tight with him, especially Mike Donilon. So this stuff doesn't get leaked by,

this is all, this is just- It's very coordinated. Coordinated. Yeah, I agree. It's a drip, drip, drip. Yeah, so what happens in that? How do you message this, Scott? You know, you love scenario planning. So how do you message? Well, this is, I think, I don't know this, but I think they're already planning. I think they're

already saying, how do we try and salvage as much of his legacy as possible? And the sad thing is, if he dropped out two weeks ago, every day this goes on, his legacy gets worse and worse. But I think they're already scenario planning how they do this strategically, how they set up a process, whether it's a coronation or a competition. I think it'll probably be a competition, or I hope it is. How they best message it, how do they protect him, give him the most. Give me a couple things. Look, the Republican National Convention started out pretty strong, and then it went right to crazy pretty quickly. It's gone really quite nutty recently. And did you see Matt Gaetz fighting with Kevin McCarthy right there?

That was awful. Oh, my God. I was loving it. Kevin McCarthy's a very spicy man. I never saw this side of him. Yeah, but it's like Representative Gaetz. It's like, buddy, why would you do that to yourself? He looks terrible. Oh, the of him. Yeah, but it's just such, it's like Representative Gates. It's like, buddy, why would you do that to yourself? He looks terrible. Oh, the face thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can talk.

We don't usually talk about people's looks, but what the fuck? I mean, it's weird. Yeah, I've noticed that. I actually think the RNC has actually done a pretty good job with the convention. I think it started strong, went to create. Once they got to Kimberly Guilfoyle, things went downhill really fast. Oh, I didn't see her. They had Peter Navarro on.

The best is yet to come! She did a version of that. And then, you know, I thought Judy Demantz was fine. I thought the wife was fine. I was like, please don't do anything to your face, Usha. Like, please don't. Because all the sort of the Trump look of the ladies thing, where they do all the, including Matt Gaetz. My favorite tweet, my favorite not tweet, it was on Threads, threads was he's one partner away from two lions and an act in vegas because

he looks like those guys roy and remember those guys i did i i i saw zig freedom right this is a new tiger oh we were laughing about that right Right wing, come get us. Oh, no. Oh, no. Not Siegfried and Roy. They were great. I have to say we love them.

So what do they do? They create a situation where they make them into a golden god, correct? That's like Biden who's done everything. Our dad has done everything for us. He's doing the right thing for America. Yeah, for America. You want a fresh new face, fresh new people. The most important thing is ensuring for about 48 hours they need to focus because they want to make them feel good on what lionizes, canonizes, gives him 24 karat gold around his legacy and he gets to leave on his own terms.

But as soon as possible, Joe. as soon as possible, Joe. And then the next thing is, the important thing is, is how they're gonna orchestrate the selection of the next person or the appointment of the next person and how they suck as much oxygen out of the room from all the attention and momentum, which is substantial right now for Trump. And then my guess is they're just doing a ton of like, is it a competition with four debates

in two weeks? How does it play out at the convention? How do we come across? How do we make this robust and interesting and entertaining as opposed to just fucking chaos and panic? And I think a good crisis is a terrible thing to waste, but where they've ended up is the following. And that is, I think a few weeks ago, there was a general sense that the destabilization and the risks of removing Biden for a lot of people were not worth it. And then as there was additional scrutiny and he was forced to go off teleprompter and do live stuff, Quite frankly, it just cemented, confirmed, validated everyone's worst fears. I don't know if you saw his press release where he was talking about this new rent control proposition. You couldn't even focus on it. It was like, oh, God.

He kept saying, anyway, I'd be bored, too. The way he tried to get down the stairs. I mean, I'm at a point where I think you're going to have a lot of anger among Democrats, like, who the fuck made the decision to hide all of this shit from us? I mean, who thought that was a good idea to even believe that if they just managed it all, they could cosplay a competent president for the next four and a half years? Well, let me be fair. He's been competent, Scott. He's been doing whatever it's Team Biden or whatever they've been doing, you know, despite all the stuff at the, you know, at the Republican convention, like taking credit did the foreign policy stuff, sharp as a frigging tack, right? It was very good. And so I think it's just a question of focus and what's interesting to him,

right? And so I do that too. I like won't talk about things I'm not interested in anymore. I'm like, no, I refuse to speak of that. But where I was headed with it is that as it became evident that he just should not, he should drop out, the risk of the chaos and the disorganization became a risk worth taking. And that's where we are, is that the risk and the chaos and the insecurity of how this plays out with an untested candidate that might not have as much name recognition, you know, all the candidates bring their strength and hair. The risks are now definitely worth taking. And so... People are going to be mad at us for saying that. Yeah. But look, this has gone on too long. It is time.

And there's just no doubt about it. Also, they must be freaked out on the DNC side about how much momentum Trump has. on the DNC side about how much momentum Trump has. If Trump came out of this the last couple of weeks, weekend or, you know, and the polls haven't been that bad for Trump. And I'm sorry, the polls haven't been that bad for Biden. And Biden had kind of a little bit better performance,

not even a great performance on Stephanopoulos and Lester Holt. I think there still would be a lot of people saying it's not worth the risk. And they have a point. Now the risk is a risk worth taking. And I think everyone's coming around to that. Yeah, I would agree. In the midst of all the campaign chaos, Biden is reportedly making some big moves when it comes to the Supreme Court.

He's finalizing plans to endorse major changes to the court in coming weeks, as we suggested, including proposals for term limits for justices and enforceable ethics code. According to The Washington Post, those changes would be subject to congressional approval, which is a long shot, given the makeup of the House and Senate right now. If Biden doesn't drop out of the race, you know, it could be a Hail Mary to get people to stay with him. You know, if they do win the House and the Senate, they can do these things, right? The president, if Trump is vetoed, he's not, Trump is not a fan of these proposed changes, calling them an illegal and unconstitutional attack on the Supreme Court and the true social post. But we're with you, Joe, on this one. When you think of term limits, we love them. Yeah, I think it makes sense. I don't know if we'll go through. We've said this

before. I think there are few institutions that have lost as much brand equity, but the Supreme Court used to be towards the top. This is ridiculous. And it shouldn't just be for Clarence Thomas and whatever scam he's perpetrating. Well, but to be fair, it's presented a real challenge for Justice Thomas because he faced a situation where both sides of the case

both offered him really awesome scuba trips, and he just didn't know what to do. I know. I know. He should come here and talk to him. I thought that was good. I thought that would get a laugh out of you. Get it?

Both sides of the case, scuba trips. All right. Okay, got it. Really awesome scuba trip to Belize. Like Belize. A Belizean scuba trip for Justice Thomas. Anyway, do something about Justice Thomas and his insane spending with rich people. Anyway, we're going to get to rich people in a second.

All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about big tech investors turning to Trump. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter.

These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists, and they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion. It's mind-blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of scam centers all around the world. These are very savvy business people. These are organized criminal rings. And so once we understand the magnitude of this problem, we can protect people better. One challenge that fraud fighters like Ian face is that scam victims sometimes feel too ashamed to discuss what happened to them. But Ian says one of our best

defenses is simple. We need to talk to each other. We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive? Even my own father fell victim to a, thank goodness, a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim. And we have these conversations all the time.

So we are all at risk. And we all need to work together to protect each other. Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Scott, we're back with our second big story. More big names in tech are getting behind Trump, although not that many. They put a list together and it was all the same losers and small dick energy that's always been. In addition to his endorsement, Elon reported his plans to commit around $45 million, but today it got a little sketchier to the new Trump super PAC, according to Wall Street Journal, or else he's trying to get people to do it.

Elon, by the way, has pushed back against that report about his $45 million super PAC contributions. The Wall Street Journal says it stands by its reporting. And I, for one, believe the Wall Street Journal. Mark Andreessen and Ben Horaceau did tell the firm they intend to make significant donations to Trump PAC, explaining on their podcast this week that they believe the former president is better for startups. Mark Cuban, I would urge you to read his explanation. They want an environment where Bitcoin will do better, cyber stuff, because Mark Andreessen and Ben Horst have a huge investment in that area.

And so tariffs and lower taxes would be better for Bitcoin, et cetera. And there'll be inflation too. Investor David Slacks even had a slot at the RNC convention that he bought. Oh, did I say that out loud? Where he reportedly met with tepid response by convention attendees. I got a lot of texts like, who is this clown? And I was like, welcome to my world. So here we have it. Here they have. They're trying to buy a presidency, essentially. I think Trump

doesn't get what just happened with J.D. Vance. Let me just take a moment. We talked about him last week. His job record is not good in tech, let me just say, including Steve Case saying he didn't do much, right, when he worked for him. He had a firm that didn't do well. He had one company took public that's gone bankrupt. took public that's gone bankrupt. He essentially was, you know, it was really interesting because Rachel Maddow did a great thing on him this week where she basically called him an intern for Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel got him all his jobs and then gave him money to run for Senate and now has pushed him right into Trump's arms, including getting the Senate endorsement, which was

critical to him, and then convincing Donald Jr. to press the president for this. So, you know, this has been a beater-teal operation the whole time. I have to tip my hat to him because I do think he's quite brilliant. Not so much David Sachs, but he certainly is. But, you know, it's a small group of people. They put up a list of them, David Sachs did, and it's all like the Winklevosses and a bunch of other, this Sean McGuire person who never shuts up. It's all these unpleasant VCs. And the information did a poll of voters in Silicon Valley, and it was overwhelmingly Biden over Trump, the average people and startup people and this and that. It's mostly these incredibly afflicted VCs who think they're victims. And there's others on the other side, obviously, Reid Hoffman, Mark Cuban, et cetera, et cetera, quietly, Sheryl Sandberg.

It is a dramatic shift, Red, because in the past couple of presidential elections, you've had like 80 plus percent of the dollar volume coming out of the values gone Democratic. like 80 plus percent of the dollar volume coming out of the value has gone democratic. These are real players. The thing that struck me was that I found it a couple of things. One, for Sequoia and Andreessen to come out and be this political overly- DeGlione and the other guy there. Must mean that they have such extraordinary, they feel they have such extraordinary upside, probably around Bitcoin, probably around some sort of dialogue they've had with President Trump that if he's elected, he's going to do something that totally

legitimizes or integrates Bitcoin technology into whatever, the Federal Reserve or fiscal planning or some sort of monetary policy that would take the price of Bitcoin and crypto so far up that they've decided it's sort the risk. Because what I got to think here is if I'm, Sequoia has like Ottawa Teachers or the State Pension Fund from Michigan as limited partners, I got to think right away, they got letters saying, okay, let's be clear. We gave you money to get an above market return investing in startups. We are not interested in taking the pensions of teachers, of public school teachers in Michigan, and having it go to a Trump PAC.

So the deal here must be, on the face of it, so incredibly lucrative in terms of upside for them to publicly come out in favor of Trump. Let me just read Mark Cuban's thing. Here's a contrary opinion on the emergence of Silicon Valley support for President Trump. Let me just read, let me read Mark Cuban's thing. Here's a contrary opinion on the emergence of Silicon Valley support for President Trump. And I agree with him. This is all about money.

Let me be clear. These people, I've never heard a value out of these people, including any values. They don't have any values. Their values are themselves and their money. And they love themselves. That's what they love. That's it.

But which, like all my opinions here, probably won't be popular. It's a Bitcoin play. Not because former president is a far stronger proponent of crypto. That's nice. But it doesn't really impact the price of Crispo. It makes it easier to operate a crypto business because of the inevitable required change of the SEC. But will drive the price of Bitcoin as lower taxes and tariffs, which, if history is any guide, and it's not always, will be inflationary. is lower taxes and tariffs, which if history is any guide, and it's not always, will be inflationary.

Combined with the global uncertainty as to the geopolitical role of the USA and the impact on the US dollar as a reserve currency, you can't align stars any better for the Bitcoin price acceleration. How high can the price go? Way higher than you think. Remember, the market for Bitcoin is global and the supply has a final limit of 21 million Bitcoins with unlimited fractionalization. Keep in mind, you consider this happens because of geopolitical uncertainty and decline of the dollar. And he keeps going crazy. It already happens in countries facing hyperinflations and things will go further than we can imagine today. I'm not saying it will. Then Bitcoin becomes exactly what the maxis envision, a global currency. I think this was, I was like, I hadn't, Mark always thinks of things that I don't think of, I have to say. He had the same idea around AI that I thought was super smart. Anyway.

But the thing that's disappointing here is that it's one thing when people, so first off, Citizens United, it's too much money in politics. It is what it is. The Supreme Court has decided that money is free speech. Okay, it is what it is. People have the right to give money. Supreme Court has decided that money is free speech. Okay, it is what it is. People have the right to give money. And it's going to result in influence. This seems to have taken it, though, to kind of a next level of pay to play, that these are specific issues that aren't even connected to any sort of ideology or political way of

thinking. It's a general notion that if I give $45 million a month, I'm pretty sure he will place slap tariffs on BYD, the largest Chinese EV company. I'm pretty sure that if we and Andreessen give a lot of money to Trump, that he will do what we want around crypto. This feels like a kleptocracy. It's not supporting political ideology. This feels like a kleptocracy. It's not supporting political ideology. It's just if I give you enough money, you will use the strength and the reach of the government to ensure that I get sweetheart deals.

That's true. And they're also trying to go against competitors. You know, Elon's way behind in AI. So attack open AI. Attack Google. One thing that's interesting is with J.D. Vance will talk about in a second. But one of the things, you know, Elon's bought Twitter and made it accessible, but it's also part of a play, which Mark Cuban told me was. He said this isn't about Twitter or anything else that comes out of his stupid mouth. It's about his global impact in terms of dealing with autocrats and his other businesses, right? He always was like, focus on his businesses, Karen, not his stupid remarks about trans people, even though they're stupid. You know, but he's erased any air of neutrality for the platform. The New York Times

noted, another thing I would note is back in March, I said he was going to back Trump and back him heavy. And those, his stance came down on me like a ton of bricks when I said that on the Jen Psaki show. And right, you know, because I know he wants money. And that was sort of inspired by my discussion I had with Mark Cuban. I think it was 100% right. He predicted that. And this role of J.D. Vance in all this is interesting. You know, he's kind of a tech bro butler. He's a tech bro butler, a billionaire butler. Peter Thiel's been holding his hand the whole time, you know, holding everything to help him along the way. You know, it's literally like, you know, they say everyone gets on their own merit. This guy is like a poster child for special needs. He keeps getting pushed upward, even though he's not that particularly successful. But he has those stances. He's bullish on crypto. He owns Bitcoin. He's actually praised FTC chair Lena Kahn. He's a conservative for her efforts to crack down on big tech. But the tech

he's going after is Google, because in his words, it's explicitly progressive technology company. They're also going after Facebook, which is interesting. Mark Andreessen's on the board of that. He's called for the reform of Section 230. He's just in there. He's in their pocket. I just don't know what else. What do you think? Yeah, like I said, it feels like a kleptocracy.

It's pay for play. It's not around ideology. It's, you know, I think we've covered this. The place I disagree with you on, J.D. Vance, does he have the credentials to be vice president? Probably not. Well, I don't know. No, he's been there a year and a half, Scott. He's passed no significant legislation. How long was Obama there? I get that, but nonetheless, he's passed no significant legislation. He had no business success. He didn't. I'm not a fan of the man. I think that when the scariest thing in my view around Trump is that

he's, in my opinion, lacks focus and wants to take us to the handmaid's tale in 2025, if you're interested, is literally a manifesto for where they're planning to go. And the thing that scares me about Vance is that he has said repeatedly, I don't care about Ukraine. And generally speaking, throughout history, when world leaders have shown, Western leaders have shown an indifference to an autocrat invading Europe, it doesn't end well. And so I find both of these people scarier and scariest. But in terms of just the pick itself and his performance as a politician, you know, my joke around Vance and I'll get, you know, Vance is half Trump's age, hot, and deep down hates Trump. It's Trump's fourth wife.

You know, I agree with you on that. I do think he's thinking this is Don Jr.'s successful. But this guy's not successful. Neither is Don Jr.'s successful, but this guy's not successful. Neither is Don Jr. And it was shoved. He was, you know, he made the decision supposedly like right after he got shot, which is perfect. Sarah Palin wasn't successful. Right.

That hasn't gotten in the way of these people being nominated as vice president. No, but Murdoch was pushing for Burgum, who is actually successful. He is very successful. And he runs a state. Even if it's a small state, it's a state. And same thing with Rubio. I don't like Margaret Rubio, but he's an experienced legislator. This guy is like a nobody. He's a vessel. That said, there's a really good article I push everyone to in Politico about

people J.D. Vance likes. Go find out who his inspirations are. You will be disturbed. It's all very conservative Catholic Christian theologists who are very frightening in terms of what they say about gays, about women, about all kinds of things. There's a whole heaping helping of weird. You know, he said that these people on the far left, talking about like, how do you mean misogynist and weird at the same time, are all cat-owning, childless people that are deeply unhappy and hate children.

I'm like, uh-huh. He was like, you liberals don't believe in the future with childless. And I said, I have double the fucking children you have. What's wrong with you? I don't get it. Like, I think- Just, he mentioned children was so strange. It was such a strange-

But look, just to keep it real, because we need somebody needs to have increasingly honest and open and urgent conversations with President Biden. They're kicking our ass right now, Cara. They are kicking our ass. I'm going to go the other way. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. They're killing it. I like our chances.

I like our chances. I do. Well, who are we talking about? Because of the bandage. That's why I've decided. Who are we talking about because of the bandage that's why i've decided who are we talking about when you say like our chances who women who do you think once they get a whole heap and helping of this guy they will he's not a good choice he's made trump vulnerable to a i don't think trump actually does believe a lot of that stuff you know what i mean this guy

is a dyed-in-the-wool strange one with the with the he's the he's the handmaid's tale guy, not Trump necessarily. Trump just doesn't care what he does. I'm just, I'm not a fan of Trump, obviously, but I almost feel bad for Trump because it's a plan. Anyway, one of the things they were talking about is AI plans. If he's reelected, Trump allies are drafting an AI executive order that would launch a series of Manhattan projects to develop military tech and roll back burdensome regulations, of which there aren't any, according to the Russian post. What regulation? What's the burdensome regulation that needs to be rolled back? I call this a digital welfare program for the rich on threads. This is going to advantage Elon because he's behind. They're doing just fine without help from the government. And the

government is not in their way. It's such nonsense. They're just asking for slight safety things. They're just trying to front run any kind of regulation. And this will be Elon. This is Elon, Elon and his friends, not the ones who actually are better at it. Everything we're doing here, we need another pick, a competition, and we need to start taking the narrative back. They are totally controlling the narrative and the oxygen, even though it's not, even though a lot of it's negative and people like us getting upset, the bottom line is it's all we're talking about. Let me just tell you why I think this, there was a bunch of series of

articles after the shooting, right? Where the reporters went in and they were expecting the people in Trump country to blame Biden. And the most sensible people, these are all very conservative people. They're like, I'm voting for Trump. This was people who would expect to say that. And they said, well, what do you think about the shooting? They're like, it's not Biden's fault. It was a sad young man who was unhappy, who didn't fit in. Like they got it. Like they were not being snowed by they did this to us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That was just all performative by the people, by the top Republicans. I don't even think Trump believes that. He thinks he was a troubled kid. And the bandage, it was too big. The bandage was too big. Why is the bandage so big? He needs to have it that big? Because, you know, every doctor I talk to says it just needs to be like one of those little dot ones, or a very small one, and it could have been flesh colored. More prevalent, so everybody sees it.

Yeah, but why? Because it's a constant reminder. It's their new logo. It's their new logo. It's too much. Visual metaphors of power flight. I actually think that's smart. It's a thirsty bandage is what it is, Scott.

But, look, I agree with you. I don't think they're going to get as much of a bump or an enduring bump from the failed assassination attempt. I just don't think that's going to play out as much as people think. But having said that, there's definitely a sense that he has just a ton of momentum right now, that a lot of businesses are high-profile business leaders are backing him. Vance seems to be— They did not like Vance, those high-profile business leaders are backing him. Vance seems to be... They did not like Vance, those high-profile business leaders. None of the corporate people like it. They are on a roll right now, Cara.

They really are. I think they're peaking too early. I'm going to go with that one. They're peaking a little too early. I hope you're right. If they pick someone good and they get a nice little fun, exciting thing, it could work. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction from you. So I don't know if you saw, but after the assassination attempt, Donald J. Trump... Which we decry. I'm going to do comma. Which we decry. Go ahead. I'm so upset that Megyn Kelly doesn't like me anymore. She doesn't like me. Oh, my God. You need to get over that. Go listen to her for five minutes. She's obsessed with all kinds of strange things. She's good at what she does. I've always liked her. Okay.

All kinds of strange things. She's good at what she does. I've always liked her. Okay. Donald J. Trump media, which has like a, I don't know, you know, the most ridiculous valuation. It's the definition of a mean stock because it's more of a mean stock than AMC and GameStop because it was technically a business. This has a $7 billion market cap with almost no revenue, just massive losses. It's basically going to become a meme stock and also a tracking stock for what people think Trump's likelihood of being reelected. And after the failed assassination attempt, the company or the stock spiked to 46. It's now down

to 37. My prediction is it's going to go down to less than 30 because I I think Biden's going to step down and the prospect of Trump being reelected is going to go down. And as a result, Donald Trump media, which has become a proxy for the likelihood he gets elected, is going to dip below 30. This is a long-winded way of saying, I believe Biden is going to step down and the likelihood that Trump will be elected is going to go down with it as will the stock of Trump media. That's interesting. There's some interesting things happening. The SEC sued the ex-chief CEO, Patrick Orlando, for fraud. That's sort of there. At the same time, you're right, the stock soared after the assassination attempt. But ProPublica had a really interesting story about Trump media made a deal that could secure major financial windfall for the GOP candidate.

And that option is sell up to $2.5 billion worth of shares. They're going to try to get this guy money through this to convert the paper stake into something that he can use. So they're going to try everything they can to get this to funnel money to this fellow. But definitely the SEC is on the case whether or not this stops. Yeah, but if Trump wins. Yeah. I mean, what I think shareholders are saying is, A, we like the guy and it's a way of indirectly funneling money. But also if Trump wins the White House,

it's likely, or there's a non-zero probability that he will find something that traditionally would have been illegal, that he might demand that the Pentagon or that every government employee have an account on True Social. I mean, I just wouldn't put it past the guy. He's not going to be successful. His biggest challenge is going to be J.D. Vance

wandering around the West Wing. That's my opinion. He's the hand from Game of Thrones. That's who he is, the hand. You'll see. I'm just telling you.

And they used Donald Trump Jr. again because he's so dumb. So, all right, so the shares are going to go down again unless he wins. No, no, no.

I think what I'm saying is in the next week, I think Joe Biden steps down. And as a result, I just think it's fun. I think Donald Trump media or DJT media will dip below 30 because the likelihood or the odds that Trump is reelected go down once Biden steps down. The momentum, unfortunately, has been mostly a function of what has become increasingly apparent that the current president is infirmed and not up to the job and would likely not be reelected. And once that risk is no longer off the table, there is a greater likelihood that Democrats hold on to the White House with someone other than Joe Biden. Interesting.

Interesting. You were right about Apple stock, by the way. It was on a tear. It went on a tear, tear, tear. It just dripped, dipped in the last couple of days. But it was a two, it was on a real tear, crazy tear, $3.44 trillion with a very low P ratio, 34, something like that, comparatively. But it was on a tear and it's taken a little back the last five days. But you were right about that. So I'm going with you on this one. There we go. We'll see. There we go. We'll see. That's a good one. I like that. We'll see. Do you own Trump Social? No, no. As a matter of fact, the only time I've occasionally bet against it, but no, I would never own that stock. Yeah. Well, anyway, there you go. Good game. So if anyone wants to play around with it, go ahead and short him. By the way, this is not financial advice. No, this is not financial advice. I just think it's fun to watch.

All right. What a week. You didn't ask me about my appearance on The Daily Show. Oh, my God. Let's talk about that. That was great. You didn't think you were good. You were fantastic.

No, you're being generous. I wasn't. It was with Ronnie Chang, right? Yeah. They're such nice people. Oh, stop it. You don't like anything you do. It's ridiculous.

You agree. No, occasionally I do well. I know when I do well. Why didn't you think you did well? It wasn't a good format for me. He interrupted me quite a bit. He did. I just wasn't.

That sent you a little off, yeah. But you recovered. Yeah, I just was, I was kind of uncomfortable. I just didn't get any rhythm. I wasn't able to get any real good points out. That was, I mean, I was fine. It wasn't a disaster. But that show is just so meaningful.

That was like one of those moments I always wanted to be on the show. And I love the cast. They're such intelligent, interesting people, the young people, you know, Jordan Kepler and who's the really impressive woman?

Desi Lydic. She's hilarious. I'll be interviewing her next week for on. Oh, she's great. She's amazing. Yeah. And I really like Ronnie and I was happy to be on with him.

And I, anyways, it was really nice. So I was really hoping I would do better, but it was really fun to be on there. He's good, but he's peripatetic. That's his energy. That's his comic energy, right? He's good with the other guy, the handsome man. What's his name?

Actually, it's so funny you said that. I was really self-conscious. That guy walked out, and he said hi to me, and he shook my hand, and I'm like, God, you're a handsome guy. And then I thought, I shouldn't have said that. If it was a woman, I would have commented on her looks. Anyways, I was- You'll probably think you're gay. Cue the first part of this thing. As does everyone else. You'll say, do you want to go to a gay bar? That's okay. As my first wife said, gay by day, straight by night. All right. Okay. We're going to Provincetown. You're going to wear the most

beautiful, colorful outfit. I'm going to buy it here for you in Nantucket. A lily boot. Amen. Sure.

It'll be great. We'll have such a good time. Okay, Scott. Everybody, we want to hear from you. Send us your

questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question

for the show or call 855-51-PIBIT. This has been so news-filled. It's exhausting, Scott. It's exhausting. Yeah, a lot going on. There's going to be a lot more going on. Go to Nobadir Beach.

They have great food trucks. No, it's great. I'm leaving tomorrow morning. I've got to go back. Are you? Nice to meet you. I wish you were here. I honestly do.

I wish you were here. Thank you. Nice time. Maybe I'll come up. When are you here? I'm here. I'm there the last. We don't take much vacation.

We're there the last three weeks of August after Aspen. Guess what? I will be in Martha's Vineyard. I'm taking the ferry over, and I'm bringing the whole frigging crew. Louie, Alex, Clara, Saul, Amanda. Who knows if my ex-wife will show up? We're all coming. We're going to all come over.

We're taking the ferry. Okay? No problem. And you can take us down to whatever beach you're talking about. Okay? Yeah, you guys will love it. I'm a great host. I let everyone do their own thing, and I pay for everything.

Perfect host. Fantastic. We love it. Perfect host. We will come over. We have a beautiful house in Martha's Vineyard. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Can you read

us out? Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Brose and Milsa Vario. Nishat Kerouan is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Megan, it's so obvious you just want my attention. Know that I'm thinking about you.

Know that I admire you. And you don't need to lash out. This is a little embarrassing for both of us. Oh, God.