Pivot - Brown and Bondi Beach Shootings, Trump's AI Executive Order, and Oracle Struggles

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Kara and Scott discuss a heavy weekend of news, with shootings at Brown University and Australia's Bondi Beach, as well as the death of Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele. Then, Disney's "cease and desist" letter to Google over AI-generated content, Oracle's stock slide, and Paramount's pushback on Warner Bros. Discovery’s financing concerns. Plus, Trump introduces an AI executive order, but Kara says it's all about politics, not policies. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠.Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠.Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠.Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. How you doing, Scott? I'm doing great. Thanks. Weird weekend. of shootings and killings and pretty horrible stuff. We usually banter here, but I think we should just get right to it, don't you think? Yeah, I think so.

Yes, we want to briefly acknowledge the horrific events of gun violence over the weekend. On Saturday, two people were killed and nine were injured at a shooting at Brown University, and on Sunday at least 15 people were killed in a shooting at a Hanukkah celebration in Bondi Beach in Australia. At the time of the taping, authorities were still looking for the Brown shooter. The Bondi Beach shooters have been identified as a father and son. A bystander whose refugee parents had just arrived from Syria wrestled a gun from one of the alleged attackers during the Bondi Beach shooting. As if that violence weren't enough, director and actor Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle, were found dead in their L.A. home on Sunday. Supposedly, apparently according to lots of reports, their son, their youngest son, is being held in what it looks like a murder.

Donald Trump, of course, had a weigh in on this tragedy posting on true social a little while ago. Rob Reiner had tortured and struggling, but once very talented movie director and comedy stars passed away together with his wife, Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive unyielding and curable affixions with a mind-crupling disease known as Trump derangement syndrome. I can't believe he wrote this, but once again, of course I can. So he said the raging obsession has have driven people crazy and obvious paranoia's, reaching new heights as the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations with greatness. And then he said they should rest in peace. He's a terrible, terrible son of a bitch. Yeah, but I just can't wait for the right to be as inflamed by the notion that anyone was dancing on Charlie Kirk's grave.

But this will like, you know, this will just be Donald being Donald, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, just what a heinous piece of shit. Let's start with the shootings. Just for personally, Amanda went to Brown and knows the area very well. It's a very open campus, she was telling me, and, you know, it's sort of such a, you know, very peaceful. I've been there a number of times with her in the area where it was taking place. Nobody knows why this particular, well, because people love guns, but why the reasons, reasoning behind.

The one in Bondi Beach was horrific, except for that one bystander who was just, the video of it was astonishing that this guy had a lawn gun and this guy. He was a big guy who went after another big guy. And then the father ended up dying. The son, I believe, is still living. Again, these people were peaceably getting together on a holiday, which was the first night of Hanukkah, which we celebrated last night. I don't know what to say, Scott. Just the whole thing is just, oh, violence.

Yeah, it's the things that strike me about Brown is that just as we overprotect our kids offline and underprotect them online, I think campus is, unfortunately, have become, they're supposed to be some of the safest places in the world physically and some of the most dangerous places intellectually. And unfortunately, we flipped a script. We've decided that words are violence and I think created sort of these very fragile, a very fragile youth, not all, but too many. And at the same time, guns on campus.

And we don't know, they don't know who the shooter is, but generally speaking, what will happen is they will attempt to politicize it. the left and the right, unfortunately. And chances are, we don't know who it is, chances are, there's three dimensions to this type of violence. It's usually a young man who's not connecting to work, family or relationships or someone who went online and got radicalized and then had access to guns.

And then to use that as a bridge to Australia, this is the first mass shooting they've had in 27 years. They have one every 27 years, We have one every 27 hours, and that's not a lie. We have 1.2 mass shootings a day. So, and then, you know, I can't help, but look, I'm obviously think a lot about Israel and the Jewish population. There are 2.7 billion Christians, 2.1 billion Muslims, 1.4 billion Indians, 1.3 billion Chinese, 355 million Americans. But the hate towards 15 million Jews, it was 15 million in 1939. By

1945, Hitler had taken it down to 9 million. It's taken 80 years to get back to 15 million. But because of the hatred focused on these 15 million, 0.2% of the world's population, Paris is canceling their New Year's events. I mean, this is really, this is impacting everyone. And the only silver lining here is who you brought up. Ahmed Al-Amad, I think that his name is. I apologize I've been getting that wrong. He was a fruitender. Yeah, he owns a fruit store, two sons.

And I just think it was so wonderful on so many dimensions that it was a Muslim. Because what I find, you know, a lot of debates recently, men, people always want to go to this reductive, well, it's men against women, or it's Muslims against Jews. No, it's illiberal, primitive thought. versus liberal enlightened thought. And that's who the battle is between. But I find, and also to personalize this because I never missed an opportunity to talk about myself, I was very upset about what had happened in Australia.

And I thought about putting a star of David in my window, and I went out to try and find some sort of neon light or an Israeli flag. And someone I live with said, are you fucking crazy? Are you fucking crazy? That was their view. We live in London. We live on a busy street. And this person is like, we have kids in our house. You're going to put a symbol of Judaism or Israel in our window. And what I would ask everybody is, and today, and this is going to be somewhat of an inflammatory statement, people are down with Judaism and Jewishness today because people like to feel sorry for Jews. But it will soon return to what I would call a series of micro-enabledments. around what is going on here.

And what I would ask is, is there any other group in the world that consists of 15 million or 0.2% of the population that cannot celebrate their holidays in peace and without fear right now? That is what it means to be Jewish right now. Well, I think you're talking about illiberalism. I think a lot of people have been,

we don't know what it's happening in Brown, by the way. We still don't understand what's going on there. They don't have a suspect. They don't have a suspect. But most of, as you said, most of these killings are about illiberalism and about not letting people be who they are, right? Whoever they happen to be.

And I think it's really, it's sort of like the, the gun, I mean, Australian gun violence, my nephew lives near Bondi Beach, actually right near it. And, you know, if you've ever been there, and I've been there, and I think you have too, it's a beautiful place. It has such a nice feel to it. And it's, I would say the more liberal part of Sydney, right?

I would, you know, just kind of everyone is just letting people be who they are, essentially. And for these two, you know, being a father and son is even worse in a lot of ways because this father obviously radicalized his child. And it's just, like, it's sickening to me that they, that anyone cannot gather, right? And I agree with you. I mean, the rise in anti-Semitism is just so disturbing and so indicative of the rise of this kind of easy hatred kind of thing. And I think, again, you don't want to link these things, all of them together, but what the president wrote about Rob Reiner, who just was slashed to death allegedly by his son, who clearly had, if you follow it even slightly, I saw that movie many years ago called Being Charlie, which the son wrote and the father directed, obviously, to help his son get along. It was about his addiction and really isolation, right? It's just like this is the answer, the violent, the violence.

answer. And so, you know, you can't, sometimes there's nothing you can do about, there's something you do about drug addiction, but drug addiction and it seems like schizophrenia of some sort. But to take, like the ease at which people accept all these things, especially around anti-Semitic behavior is really, I think we're at this inflection, but we either go one way or the other, I don't know. We have, we do have a menor in our window. My wife is Jewish. My kids, my young kids are Jewish. And we also have a snowman and we have a Christmas tree. And I didn't even think about that, Scott. Like, we just put it in the window. And, you know, I wouldn't think of taking it down, but you made me think, of course. But it's so disheartening. It's, especially as

we move into the holiday season. And again, last night was the first night of Hanukkah. You know, and my kids are so excited about Hanukkah and everything around it. It's just, it's like, it's stomach churning, actually. I do think there's a difference between the Brown and Australian tragedies and what happened to the Rhiners. I think my understanding of the Rhiners is that it was a young man who's really struggling. And it's tragic, but, you know, and it represents a warranted discussion about drug addiction. but what I find so disturbing, disheartening is that all bigotry is hate, but there are different types of hate, and most bigotry comes in the form of, I don't like these people, I don't like

the way they live their lives, I don't like their food, I don't like their norms and their customs, and I'm going to discriminate against them. I'm going to sequester them from jobs. I don't want them in my neighborhood. I don't want them to have the same rights as me. The discrimination or the bigotry against Jews, I find especially dangerous because it's not, I don't like your food or I don't like the way, you know, I don't like your customs. It's that I think you have come together to form a conspiracy that is purposely trying to oppress me and that I need to take offensive action, not sequester you from opportunities, but legitimize and create cloud cover for offensive violence against you, no matter where you are. And also, folks,

on campus, congratulations. When you're chanting, globalize the intifada. All right, that's what's happened here. The intifada has been globalized. I don't think you blame those students for these people. I think it's all connected. I think that when people legitimize this type of hate speech and it becomes normalized, I think it creates cloud cover for this type of behavior. Perhaps. I feel like anti-Semitism has been around for centuries. Well, okay. And so it's enablement of it. Right. Well, yeah, people shouldn't be. But, you know, this is the problem with all these things, is talking the way, like, where does it, what do you do about all this hate speech around everywhere, around everything? Like, it's so, it's so steeped into our world now and so available. And again, you know, it's no, it's really interesting.

You know, Australia just, you know, quashed social media for kids. kids under 16. To me, that's what globalizes this. I think these sentiments have been around since the beginning of time for some reason. And it creates this worldwide ability to just hate across. Anyway, there's no, these are all tragedies. I don't mean they're linked together in any way. But in many ways, it's sort of this acceptance of violence against people. And especially in this country. And for Australia to have, as you said, a shooting is really rare, right? And so then you worry about that country in that. The thing is, guess what? Like New Zealand, like other, where they had a terrible shooting, which was, I think, against a mosque in that case, they're going to do something

about it and shut it down. They're going to shut down guns. They will actually take action as a country. Well, we do not, which is really, that's my guess, correct, don't you think? Probably there'll be some. They will. I mean, they did. They have. For example, it might not have been 15 people. It might have been 150 had they not banned assault rifles. Right. If that father-son team had had AR-15s and not single-bolt action and shotguns, it might

have been 150 people. Right. Exactly. And the fact that it happens every, this will rattle Australia to its core. And they'll do something about it. we're going to talk about Brown until tomorrow. And there'll be another one. Brown will get more attention because it's those, you know,

because it's an ivy. So it's more kind of sensational or it'll get more media attention because quite frankly, a lot of media went to Brown. But there will be a mass shooting tomorrow in America. And the next day and the next day. It's like that onion headline. America claims that the problem can't be solved and the only nation this problem exists.

Yeah. And this notion that we live in a democracy, we don't. We live in a country with a passive majority that is weaponized by a well-funded and organized special interest groups. And probably number four or five now, but still very popular, is the NRA. And 90% of Americans now believe in some sort of safe and sane gun regulation. They do. And we can't get it through.

It's repulsive. It's repulsive. But our condolves God to the people in Bondi Beach and at Brown and obviously the Reiner family. I'm going to be in Bondi, Bondi in two weeks. Bondi. Two weeks, though, you are. It's a beautiful place. It's a beautiful place.

It's a beautiful place. Anyway, we should move on onto the news. But first, Sam Altman, this is such a weird try. Sorry, let me just switch to Code Red at Open AI. It's a weird altitude change. Yeah, yeah, which he implemented to improve chat GPT against competition after the launch of its GPT-5-2 model. He's going to exit Code Red. I don't believe Code Red.

By the way, speaking of which, Rob Reiner, let me just say, made just one more thing about Rob Reiner. What an incredible artist, this guy left behind. Besides being an all in the family, he did a few good men, he did Stand By Me, he did The Princess Bride, he did when Harry met Sally. It goes on and on and on. And then, personally, his impact, the reason we have gay marriage started in California. Rob Reiner was one of the major people around it. Same thing with preschool for kids. Just, I don't care how much the Trump people hate this guy or hated this guy.

What an incredible, the effective, progressive he was. And also a beautiful filmmaker, some of my favorite films. And Code Red. Code Red is an important part of a few good men. Did you call the Gold Red? Also, you and I were on a call with a call. All with Rob Reiner just a couple weeks ago, and they seemed very civic-minded. Yeah.

Yeah, he was, they were trying to figure out something to do, to boycotts around immigration. He was focused in on immigrants, being abused by the Trump administration. He was, you know, he just a classic. The guy he played on All in the Family, Mike Stivitz, he was that guy, right? He was, it was sort of, that was him in many ways. Anyway, speaking of Code Red, which, that is one of my favorite movies. of all time. I love every bit about it, but the direction is so critical for her being so good. It's with Tom Cruise, Demi, Demi Moore, and Jack Nicholson. Obviously, he did the

sure thing. That was him? Yeah, he's an astonishing artist. And also an actor. Oh, my God, he did misery. That's an amazing film. Wow, what a career. He had a run from in the 80s to the 90s that was like one friggin' hit after the next. It's crazy and important movies that last the test of, you know, that lasts the test of time. Like, that's what it is. It's like, I go back to all those movies and they were so expertly directed. The American president, remember that one? A single Michael Douglas is president? This is spinal tap. Oh, spinal tap. Oh, how could I leave that out? Plus, he just released the two, the second one recently. And just an astonishing talent. My favorite was, he was in, he had a lot of roles over the years in various things,

mostly comedies, but he was in the Wolf of Wall Street as the accountant. Yeah. And my favorite line. Didn't he play his father? I'm not sure. He was doing the accounting. He goes, I'm not sure he was his father, but he goes, prostitutes take credit cards? And then the line was, yeah, the expensive ones.

It was the way he said prostitutes, like he's screaming. And then he goes, prostitutes take credit cards. And it was just fantastic man. Anyway, okay, we'll move on to Code Red at Open AIs. That's the reference he's using there. Sam Alton says he expects open AI to exit Code Red, which he implemented to improve chat GPT against competition after the launch of its GPT 5.2 model. He implemented because of all the competition, especially from Google's Gemini.

Altman said the release of the Gemini three models had less of an impact on a company than originally feared. We'll see. In other open AI news, the company will end a compensation polly that required employees to work at the company for at least six months before their equity vests. So what's happening here? I don't know. I think they're panicking.

Panicking. I think they heard Kara Swisher keep comparing them to Netscape. Oh, yeah. I should say. And I think that analogy is becoming more and more apt by the day. Yeah. And it's an incredible company. The question is, can they maintain momentum from $500 billion?

And the thing that struck me, Kara, was I saw that SpaceX leaked a rumor that they're thinking about going public. Yeah, and then pretended they didn't, yeah. And that they threw a number out there, who knows how real it is, a trillion and a half dollar pricing. Right now, they say they're raising money or selling shares at about $800 billion. Open AI is it at $500 billion. Now, they're both right now about the same revenue level, except SpaceX is growing much,

much slower. SpaceX went from $13 billion last year. They're projected to do $15 this year. It's not growing that fast. Yeah. Well, there's only so much space, right? But the difference is in terms of moats and defensibility and sustainability, and that is the amazing thing about a digital business is it can scale incredibly fast.

The downside is that it can be disrupted almost as fast. And that is the reason why SpaceX at a lower growth rate in a similar revenue is trading at 2 to 3 or 60 to 200% more than a company that's growing much faster, Open AI, is because it is very unlikely in two years, someone else is going to have 90% of space launch market share. The ability, and that's why Amazon, I think, value is so enduring. We're also focused on digital, but the reality is if you can put in place warehouses, 747s, you know, trucking, space launch vehicles, atoms, are more defensible than bits. Oh, interesting observation.

I like that. Well, it's harder to do. It's harder to scale up, but it would make sense. It's more defensible. It just struck me that SpaceX is trading it more. It's growing much slower, same revenue, and is much more valuable than Open AI, because people realize, if you were to say,

OK, one of these two firms is going to decline by 80% share in the next 24 months, Open AI or SpaceX, who would you think that happened to? Open AIA, yeah, everybody. 100%. That's it. I have to say, I still use chat TV more, right? And Gemini just is imposed upon me by Google, because I use Google, right?

I don't go to Google. Did you love Explorer? Did you love Microsoft Explorer? That'scape is a better browser. I agree, but it's own, well, right now I'm using it because of this, because Riverside, but I usually use Safari. But Google, one of the things that's related, speaking of defensible businesses, Google has removed videos with Disney characters after being hit with a cease and desist letter

from the company saying it's AI infringes on its copyrighted content. on a massive scale, the complaint focuses on unauthorized AI-generated videos and images of Disney characters, particularly on YouTube. The move comes shortly after Disney struck a deal with Open AI. It picked its winner, right? As we discussed last week, I went and called a lot of people after this, because a lot of people had sort of mixed feelings on Disney doing this, like they're giving in, essentially. Seems to me, I think they got learned a lot from social media and everything else that to stay out of it was a mistake early on. And so they wanted to pick one and then fight the others. And so I don't necessarily, everyone's like, oh, you're giving away your seed corn,

you shouldn't do this. Like, I don't quite know what Disney would do otherwise, right? I think making an investment, which they did in Open AI, gives them a mistake in the game, right? They're not going to get to make a similar investment in Google. It gives them an ability to have some insight. into how this is going and how it works, the way eventually all the companies did on YouTube. If you remember, Philippe Dowman, that really terrible executive sued YouTube, and it just didn't work out.

It just didn't work out the way they did it. But rather they'd rather find an illegal way to have this work out because eventually they're going to have to strike deals with all of them. And I think being both aggressive and non-aggresses is probably the right way to go, but I don't feel like Disney had another choice.

And then it could say to Open AI, whether when I was able to do this, you know, if someone's doing something hinky with, you know, Princess Jasmine and the Snowman from Frozen, you better get it done. You better get it off kind of thing. So I just feel like they kind of had to do it. And it's the best way to learn on this stuff. And using Open AI, probably they're more cooperative than a Google might be. But, you know, and it's going to hinder all these, every single company is going to have a deal like. this, presumably. I don't know, but all of them. We'll have them with all of them, like they did with YouTube in the end. I think you're exactly right. I think, I think this is a good move for both of them. And the key here is that... There was criticism. There was a lot of criticism. But right now, Disney doesn't have the capital, both human, both human or financial capital to build their own LLM. And they want to experiment, and it's all, the proof is in the pudding. And that is, I'd love to see the terms of this deal. If I were Disney, I'd want to make sure we're going to experiment, but you do not have in any way long-term rights,

AI rights around these characters. It's a 12-month thing. We'll say how it's working for both of us. But I go back to the same thing, and that is you want, the deepest-pocketed companies in the world that creating the most shareholder value are these AI-centered companies. You want as many as possible because you want Disney to have the ability in 12 months to go to Gemini or to go to Lama or even to go to one of the Chinese players and say, all right, You've seen what Open AI can do with our characters. Our two, our three-year relationship will be up in six months. Who's got the biggest check for us?

And otherwise, if there's only going to be one bidder in AI, and the arms race sort of connotes that they all sort of believe there might be one player, you want as many bidders as possible. Otherwise, you're going to further leak human capital from the creative community, the Los Angeles community, and from Disney shareholders, and from consumers to the one player in Open AI. So I'm for, I hope that a lot of the content creators get together and, quite frankly, partner with the number two and just play them off against each other and always make sure that there's a really healthy ecosystem. They didn't do it at YouTube.

Do you remember when they, I remember when SNL went on YouTube, you know, those movie shorts, it got onto YouTube and YouTube did everything possible to take it down. And I remember YouTube didn't, the company did. I think SNL did, NBC. I remember being with NBC executive, I'm like, let it stay there. What are you talking about? Everyone's talking about it now, right? And they just were like, we have to take it down. They're stealing our things.

I'm like, well, make it deal with them. It was, I think the way they handled at the beginning was something somewhat evil I did when I was running my all things de-conferences. We had Philippe Downman when he was suing YouTube and also Eric Schmidt on, and I put them back to back with each other on stage. And Eric Schmidt, Philip Downman wanted to talk to Eric Schmidt. And Eric ran into the bathroom. He didn't want to talk to him.

Eventually, they settled. But it just seemed to me the wrong approach at the time, even though, let me say, I think Google was fast and loose with that content in order to build his business. I think they stole everything. Well, Google wasn't compensating anybody back then. No, they weren't.

And I think they were stealing. YouTube's now compensating people. I think they were stealing. But then they, by the time it was too late and they should have done deals with them. But anyway, we'll move on. Okay, Scott, when we come back, Oracle has its own code red moment.

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new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com slash pivot to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Scott, we're back and I put on my Santa hat with a big ball. Happy Christmas, Scott. Happy holidays, care. Happy holiday. Can we say Christmas again?

Of course. Anyway, happy Hanukkah, happy everything. Have you seen these videos of, I don't know, it makes me so happy and it's so wrong. Have you seen these videos of grown men dressing up as Grinch and terrorizing little children? Oh, no. No, there was one at the Christmas fair the other day where we used to live, and kids love the Grinch. Oh, no. Were these trying to terrorize kids?

This is videos of three-year-olds being traumatized for life by a Grinch character breaking into the house and stealing gifts and children. And it is so wonderful and it's so wrong. Oh, no. I was at a bar and a prostit who walked in and order a glass of wine. And the bartender said, what did you ask Santa for, Santa for? And she said, $30, just like everyone else. That's not even funny. Never mind.

You've got to up your Christmas whore jokes. Anyway, as I said, Oracle's having his own... He's such an asshole. Santa knows what the naughty girls are, and he doesn't tell anyone else. That's true. Look at Code Red Wormut, Code Red. The company's stock fell 14% last week. Ouch, down 45% from a September high, which was far too high.

Anyway, after the latest earnings showed soaring cap-ex and rising debt tied to its massive AI build-out. Make it all kinds of bets. There was also a report claiming several Oracle data centers tied to its 300. Billion-dollar opening a contract have been delayed, really. Oracle denies the delays, said it remains confident its ability to meet its obligations and future expansion plans. Ooh, Oracle went a little far on this, I thought, didn't you? I don't know.

It's also related. There's a paramount factor in this. The hostile bid for Warner Brothers Discovery is backed in part by billions from Oracle co-founder, Larry Ellis's. But he isn't guaranteeing it the way Elon had a guarantee his purchase of Twitter. Warner Brothers Board is concerned that he didn't do this. and plans to contribute equity through a trust. It's kind of a geechy way. If he's that rich, he should just put up the money.

Paramount is calling concerns about its financing absurd. I mean, obviously, he's rich. That's true. But if he's that rich, you should personally guarantee it. If you're Warner Brothers, are you right to be concerned about Big Daddy, not giving his personal guarantee? I don't know, Scott, both of these things. I mean, obviously, the stock is down rather significantly,

so he's not quite as rich, but he's still massively wealthy. Yeah, I think if this, I think if it just comes down to money, and it probably will. I think that Ellison probably, I mean, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of play here.

So, first off, the lesson here, and I would tell this to anybody listening, and I was told this at a very young age, and I've lived up to this, and never sign a personal guarantee.

Just never. You don't know what will happen, and it's a way how smart people, it's how smart, rich people go broke. You don't know, you don't know what can happen, never, I have never done this, and I would suggest anyone listening to this podcast, never sign a personal guarantee. All right. And just so Pum, no, Elon did this in the Twitter fight, but go

ahead. I think it's, I think it's just let Elon do it. Ellison has more money personally than anyone involved because he's been selling stock and he personally is, is super wealthy, not only in stock, but in cash. But also, Netflix is a bit constrained, too, because Netflix's debt to evita ratio. They have, and they only have a certain, they have cash flow. They manage against that $18 billion year. So I think if it's pure, if these guys go really crazy. Let me go this way, Ellison can go crazier. And not like that, Ellison's about to die.

He's an old man. So does he really care? That's not according to him. He has a longevity institute. He's going to live forever. Yeah, but Ted Sarandos is around for another 40 years. Yeah. Larry Ellison is not.

Yeah. And so, quite frankly, I think Larry Allison is more likely to do what a lot of men doing that is making a rational move. Yeah, interesting. That's interesting. But I'm saying the Warner Board is using it as a concern. What do you think? You've been in boardrooms. They want, of course, when you have a scarce asset, part of the negotiation is the certainty of clothes and the certainty of financing. So whenever I bought a house, what's really fun to do is show up with an all-cash offer, right? But most people can't do that. Most people have put in contingencies around finding a mortgage. And sometimes, and sometimes,

like a really weak offer is someone says, I have contingencies. Not only do I need to find financing, I need to sell the house I'm in now to buy this house. So if he was willing to show up and say, I'm the third wealthiest man in the world and I'm signing a personal guarantee, then disco, right? So they're going to want you to do as much as possible. But yeah, I don't, just as a general rule, you never sign a personal guarantee. But is that a good excuse for the Warner Brothers Board to say, why hasn't he? Well, Ted Sarandos isn't signing a personal guarantee. No, I get it, but the Ellison's are making a big deal of their Trump affiliations, how rich they are. But you know what I mean?

Like, everybody has their own little move, essentially. But Ted Sorendos is not buying it. Netflix is, right? And they've made an offer with stock and cash that is guaranteed, presumably. You know what? I feel like every minute I'm like, Paramount's going to get it. Netflix is going to get it. Paramount's going to get it.

I know. That's what I feel. Yeah. I'm having a tough time handicapping this one. And I think Paramount has to get it. Netflix does not have to, it's not a, it's a, it's not even, it's an important thing for it to get, but it's not a must have. Yeah, but you know what it got me thinking.

What? Kara, I actually think in the next 90 days, if not, maybe not 90, I always got the time wrong. I think Disney's going to be put in play. Oh, yeah, that's what we talked about. And the likely buyer there will be Apple. I mean, keep in mind, whoever bulks up here, whether it's Paramount bulking up or Netflix bulking up, Where does that leave Disney? Where does that leave Apple?

Where does that leave YouTube? It leaves them less bulky. Yes, I brought that up with Disney executives. They're not commenting. But I agree. They're not big enough. And by the way, Disney's stock, that would be the biggest take private in history because Disney's like 200, they'd have to go up to like 300.

That would be hard to get through the government, period, and whatever government it happens to be. But Disney, do you know where the stock is? Their stock's the same place that was 10 years. ago. Yeah, I know. And talk about IP. You want to see, you want to see people salivate over IP. Right. Right. I mean, Darth Vader to Moana. I mean, Moana Live is coming out. And those parks? You want to talk about, we were just talking about. It did great with Zootopia, by the way. It continues to win in many ways.

Oh, yeah. And you want to talk about a moat around Adams versus Bits, the parks. Jesus Christ. If I said to you, if I said to you, okay, one of these things is down by 50% in three years. It's either Netflix subscribers or park attendance. What we Would you pick? Oh, of course, Netflix. Well, I don't know. People love them Netflix. They do love them Netflix.

And it also has the Taylor Swift era's documentary on it. Oh, no, that's on Disney. That's on Disney. That's on Disney. I think the parks are literally the crown jewel in the Disney portfolio. I mean, keep in mind, they were buying land in Florida for the better part of decade under false LLCs to amass millions and millions of acres. Yes, they're very clever people. But let me go back to the Oracle stock.

It's really falling. And like these commitments they have are massive. Okay, but, okay. Meanwhile, though, it's flat over the past year. So, okay, it's back to where it was in June. So we always talk about it's dropped dramatically from a massive spike. And the head fake here was Sam Altman and Larry Ellison and announcing a quote-unquote framework for a $300 billion purchase and computer.

I would love to see the terms of that contract. I think that was nothing but a joint press release. It's like when famous people date each other, their publicists are really dating each other. This is, it's like they're not fucking. Their publicists are fucking and thought it would be a great press release to say, you know, Chris Hemsworth is dating, you know. I'll tell you, of all the stocks, though,

if they get hit, Oracle will be the one that gets hit the most. Oh, it's already been hit pretty well. It's down, what is it down, 40% in a month or something like that? But it has a great core business. Anyways, I think all of media now is in play. And whoever ends up owning this, the other guys are severely diminished. If Paramount doesn't get this, they've got to go shopping. They got to get sold.

And then there's, keep in mind, the player we're not talking about, I think Apple has invested enough in Apple TV Plus that it can't let it just die. And it's a distant fifth now, but it's owned by a company where, three and a half trillion dollars. Well, the new CEO will have to, this isn't going to be a Tim Cook one. It's going to be the new CEO making a big move, right? Presumably, whoever that happens to be. And also, it'll have to be a different CEO than Bob Eager.

He won't do this one. I could see an activist coming into his name. I don't know. There's, there's, it is this going to be, whoever gets this, it will inspire a lot of chess playing by the other players. Because of Paramount, if Netflix isn't, if you want to talk about all of a sudden the Paramount acquisition looks like they dramatically overpaid. The day Netflix HBO closes, Paramount Plus just looks fucked. They look fucked. And they have to join mob up with someone and there's no

mobbing. And because I think Disney either goes to Apple or it goes, you know, if Netflix doesn't get this, you can see Netflix and Apple. I mean, Disney coming together too. Yeah, that would be a merger because I think, I think Netflix is another thing that government probably wouldn't let happen. 400 and and Disney's at 200. But we're now in a point where the unthink in terms of size of acquisition. Disney used to be too big to acquire. That's no longer true. Yeah.

Get ready, Elizabeth Warren. You're going to have some stuff happening. I mean, Christ, my mind just blown here that these things is some of the biggest. Everything now, it's technology in the Seven Dwarves. Everything's being run and dictated by the wealth or paper loss is Oracle. Who would have thought that the likelihood that paramount. would buy Warner Brothers would be based on Oracle's stock price. Right. It's just because it's a rich kid and his daddy. This makes no economic sense.

But Oracle's ability to position themselves as a number two infrastructure player is the fulcrum of the acquisition of Batman? I know. It's crazy. Remember many years ago, you don't remember. My mind is blown, Kara. When AT&T was doing that Comcast thing, I said they're not still not, none of them are going to be big enough. Years ago, I said this. They're not going to be big enough. And so all these antitrust people are going to have a hard time stopping. And don't count the Roberts out. You don't become billionaires in Philadelphia unless you have killed a lot of people and are really smart. And they're really nice people, too.

You're very friendly for killers. Anyway, all right, let's go on a quick break. We come back, Donald Trump's new AI executive order. If you're looking for the perfect holiday gift and you want to give something more thoughtful than another gadget or pair of socks, Here's my suggestion, a subscription to New York Magazine. I've been part of New York Magazine for a while now, and I can tell you it's some of the best journalism out there. From AI in classrooms to the future of media, New York Magazine digs into the stories, ideas, and people's shaping culture today. And right now, when you subscribe or give an annual subscription, you'll get a free New York Magazine Beanie.

New York Magazine is the gift that informs, entertains, and keeps on giving all year long. head to nymag.com slash gift to get started. Support for the show comes from New York Magazine's The Strategist. The Strategist helps people who want to shop the internet smartly. Its editors are reporters, testers, and obsessives. You can think of them as your shopaholic friends who carry equally about function, value, innovation, and good taste. And their new feature, The Gift Scout, takes the best of their reporting and recommendations

and uses it to surface gifts for the most hard to shop for people on your list. All you have to do is type in a description of that person, like your parent who swears they don't want anything, or your brother-in-law who's a tech junkie, or your niece with a sweet tooth. And the Gift Scout was scanned through all of the products they've written about and come up with some relevant suggestions. The more specific you make your requests, the better.

Even down to the age range, every single product you'll see is something they've written about, so you can be confident that your gift has a strategy, which is still of approval. Visit the strategist.com slash gift scout to try it out yourself. Scott, we're back. President Trump just signed an AI executive order to effectively neuter individual state laws regulating artificial intelligence. The order directs the DOJ to sue states and overturn laws that do not support, quote, the United States global AI dominance. Trump is also directing federal regulators to withhold funds for broadband and other projects if states keep

their laws in place. Child safety laws are exempt from this order, at least for now. The order, which has sparked opposition on both sides of the aisle, is likely to be challenged in court on the grounds that it's idiotic that only Congress has the authority to override state laws. Trump has been complaining about a patchwork of state AI laws. So am I, by the way, Donald. But do you think he and David Sachs, who really push this, will actually push to get a federal law? No, I do not. This is all about politics and not about policies. an issue dividing Republicans, too. Governor Ron DeSantis called this executive order a big subsidy to big tech, and he's right. Marjorie Taylor Green's against it. The whole pack of people

on both sides against it. And frankly, it's just, it's going to be stopped in courts. And that's the problem. It's that they don't want to pass federal laws that would be, make sense. And instead, they just want to play politics of power here so that they don't get, they want to stop all regulation is what they want. But they're not interested in regulation. They're interested in stopping all regulation, which is not the same things, which is politics and not policy. So this is going to be going to go into court, and then by November, Trump's not going to be able do any of this crap. So that's, and he's on the downward hill.

So obviously that none of this is going to work. So sorry, David Sachs. Good try, though. Good try. Yeah, I think you're right. And that is the government is a big fan of state's rights when it comes to gun control or bodily autonomy, but all of a sudden they decided we need mandatory federal legislation around or regulation around AI.

Which we don't have. And this is the mandatory federal regulation they'll have. Dick. They won't have anything. They won't have dick. They won't have dick. Because effectively, the Trump administration's ability to send secret police into cities and the entire economy is a giant bet on AI.

And so they don't want any regulation that gets in the way of their thoroughbreds running. And you're going to see, in my view, and this is one of my predictions for 26, you're going to see what is positioned as an investment, but effectively will be a bailout of these guys in the form of government-backed debt to continue this crazy champagne and cocaine disco party of data centers and chip acquisition. But essentially, the Trump administration has said, I don't care if it means leaking capital from the 490 of the S&P 500 to the 10, he's all in. on AI. And the last thing they're going to let happen or they're going to try and let happen is any sort of regulation. And it's insane that we're not looking at synthetic relationships. It's insane that we're not looking at it. Well, some states are, not our government, but not our federal government. Some states are starting to do this. And that's why they want to stop it. Well, that's right. And they're claiming that it's that we need one unified. Having a unified operating

system and something as complicated as AI across the 50 states makes sense. The problem is that's just a false flag. They just want no regulation. That's right. That is correct. That is correct. These people, the, remember that Bond movie The World is not enough? That's what they are. I just remember the Bond Girls. Who was the Bond Girl in it? I don't remember who it was. But in any case. Oh, is Pierce Prasman. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. The world, yes. Oh, Sophie Marceau. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no. That was later. That's with Daniel Craig. Denise Richards.

No, no. She's in the one with the bomb. Oh, really? Yeah. She's, remember she's a nuclear physicist. I don't know. Best names ever. Holly Goodhead. She was Christmas. She was some Merry Christmas or something like that was her name. Anyway, so excited about the next bond. Anyway, yeah, this is what we feel. This is bullshit, David Sachs. Sorry. But good try. Good try. It's not going to work. It's going to get sucked up into court. And then your big daddy, Trump is going to be on the downhill slide. So you're trying your best to get something happening before that. But you're not going to make fetch happen. It's going to get stopped in the court. And it has bipartisan support from at some point, they're going to.

Congress is going to reach down and feel its balls and stop all this nonsense. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Canada's Wonderland is bringing the holiday magic this season with Winterfest on select nights now through January 3rd. Step into a winter wonderland filled with millions of dazzling lights, festive shows, rides, and holiday treats. Plus, Coca-Cola is back with Canada's kind of. community, celebrating acts of kindness nationwide with a chance at 100,000 donation for the winning community and a 2026 holiday caravan stop. Learn more at canada's wonderland.com.

Canada can be a global leader in reducing the harm caused by smoking, but it requires actionable steps. Now is the time to modernize Canadian laws so that adult smokers have information and access to better alternatives. By doing so, we can't. can create lasting change. If you don't smoke, don't start. If you smoke, quit. If you don't quit, change. Visit unsmoke.ca.

Okay, Scott, some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first? You go first. Okay, my fail was this measles outbreak. In South Carolina, is accelerating with over 100 reported cases. Even Fox News put up a thing. that measles has gone up, I think it's 14,000 percent in the Trump administration, this new Trump administration. The fact that anyone's getting measles at all is, like, to become best friend

to measles is astonishing. Many of these diseases are diseases we have solved many years ago and decades ago. And in fact that people are getting measles, which is very deadly everybody, just so you know, it's not just, you know, sometimes it's just spots on your face. A lot of times it's incredibly debilitating or fatal. The fact that they're accelerating South Carolina, in Texas, all these places, will you people get a fucking measles vaccine? Like, it really is, oh, the efficacy is so great

and the rarity of any problems. And as it's showing, what's happening is a lot of this data that they're showing where COVID is a problem or there were 10 deaths. It's all, it's really nonsense data. They're lying to you about this in order to pass where they get. And Robert Kennedy, he will get a pardon by Trump, but he should go to jail for what he's been doing.

That's my feeling, as I've said. My win, I was going to say the gay hockey show, heated rivalry, which I think you'll like. Gay hockey? Yeah, it's a really hot, gay hot. Canada has brought us a tale of forbidden love between hockey players, and it is very hot. Let me just say, it's very, very hot. And I am not a big officinado of gay porn, but there you have. have it. Um, it's really, it's, well, it's, it's like romance porn. That's not your genre. It's not my

genre, but I like it. But I, I was going to give it to that, but I have to say, again, you've got me on to this. This episode of Pluribus, The Gap, was a staunch, people either don't like it or like it. Nothing happens in this episode, but it does. There's no words. They don't, the two characters, this guy coming up from Paraguay and, uh, Ria Seahorn, who's amazing as Carol, um, It was just, it was so beautiful an episode. It takes so much guts, as you said, Vince Gillian, in the middle of your hit season, and by the way, I think this will end up being the most important thing Apple's done and possibly on streaming right now. In the middle of your season, you pull this shit, I love it. I'd love every bit of it. I think about it all week, every single aspect of those shows and the things they do. And if I were Carol, a lesbian stuck by myself, I too would golf into a window. I would drive golf wigs into a skyscraper window and really enjoy doing it. And I just, I love both characters, and I'm excited for them to meet, I assume, in the next episode. But I got to say, it takes a set, speaking of balls again, and not pucks, to do this, to do the way they did it.

All right, that's my win. Go ahead. So I'll start with my fail. My fail is Face the Nation's incredibly odd framing of a question to Senator Bill Cassidy this past Sunday that literally I love Margaret Brennan. I love Face the Nation. It's one of the many ways I communicate to my sons that I'm 140 fucking years old as I love watching Face the Nation. But I asked the team to just queue up this one question. Do we have the question? CBS has confirmed that there are no ongoing safety studies into the abortion drug Mitha Pristone. This was despite the Trump administration saying they were

going to conduct one. And anti-abortion groups want this review to take place. I saw a letter the FDA commissioner sent to you last week claiming they are reviewing the evidence. Do you believe him? And if not, what are you doing about it? That is nothing but widewashed Sunday morning vaseline over wholesale misogyny. The framing of the question. Are there, has the FDA made, conducted investigations? No, they haven't conducted investigations into Advil or Arithromycin either. Why? Because this is an FDA-approved drug that the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and other leading medical organizations have stated that Mithopristone is an open quote, incredibly

safe medication. Yes, it is. Thank you. And that complications are exceedingly rare, usually minor and easily treatable. As a matter of fact, and there's peer-reviewed research on this, the U.S. death rate from childbirth is about 14 times higher than from any legally induced abortion, all methods, including the safest, which is Miffipristone. And to frame, It's a concern, they aren't looking at this, investigating it, is such an incredible far-right talking point that somehow to claim that you give a flying fuck about women's health by undermining women's health, by sowing doubt of which there is no medical evidence that lends any veracity to that doubt.

Yes, it's called reporting, and they're not doing it at the current CBS news. They're taking a heritage talking point. That is right. And sowing doubt from a show and a journalist who never used to do this bullshit. Well, she also has done it several times

since the purchase by Paramount, which I warned you about. I told you these people aren't reported. And it gives me no pleasure, but Margaret, what in the actual fuck are you doing? Go ahead. But the framing of this question creates doubt around this drug. Yes, that's the point.

Which is, it is, it is such, it is so irresponsible and such an abuse of a brand that has taken, that has taken decades. Just asking questions, Scott. Just asking, that is the attitude towards the people who run CBS News. Asking a conservative senator, a talking point that somehow frames it as your concern. If she, if they were to say people on the far right believe that, this is murder and they want it looked into. Okay, fine. But to pretend this is about women's health

under the auspice of trying to create doubt around at a very effective means of bodily autonomy, which is the definition of women's health, is just, I mean, I'm holding CBS the show. And quite frankly, Margaret Brennan, what the What the fuck are you thinking? My sentiments exactly. This is not the first time.

Margaret Brennan is a star. You have leverage. You should not be reading the talking points from Project 2025. Yep. She did it before. This one was repulsive. It really is.

I appreciate. Scott, I love you. I love you. I stopped the show. And I'm like, did I just hear this correctly? Yes, that's correct. And I went on YouTube and I'm threads. And I'm like, what the fuck?

What the actual? And it's so dis- Anyway, I'm going to move on. Well, I'm just saying they had the whole CBS news page was a nothing burger of an Erica Kirk interview. So I told you this would happen. But go ahead. I was right. I was right.

And I was right. The new novel. Because they're not reporters. The new novel from Carerswitcher. All right, this is my win. Okay, I want to win. This really is a win. It's the gay hockey players.

It's the gawky. Gawky. Oh, that's right. So, um, Merry Christmas, balls, balls. I didn't know that a lot of gay hockey, I didn't know the gay, I didn't know the gay, I didn't know the gay, I didn't know, all the people are talking about it. Well, I do, I mean, they do suck a mean dick. Yeah, I do. That question, that joke never gets old. Anyway, so my win is, Kara, I'm at that age. I posted on Instagram, uh, and this isn't, this isn't, this isn't about me. It's not a big loss for me. The individual I'm about to talk about I haven't seen in decades. But there was a core group of eight of us. in the fraternity, and one of them was Brad Luff, who passed away this week after a battle with pancreatic cancer. And obviously, that's not my win. And I don't want, it's not a big loss

for me. I haven't seen Brad in 30 years. But my win is the following. My win is a close friend named David Kingsdale, who was part of our core group. And the last few years, Brad had struggled on a number of levels, including in terms of his relationships with his family. And David, who is this, he was president of our fraternity, captain of our football team, just like the ultimate kind of aspirational alpha male and a really decent man. He had spent the better part of the last two years coordinating and caring for Brad in terms of his health care. I would get a call from David. This couldn't have been easy for David and say, do you know anyone at Cedars? I'm trying to get him into the right physical therapy. Do you know anyone? Do you know a surgeon here? He was, there have been

studies showing that the most important thing in health care is that you have an advocate, and that is you have someone who loves you and someone who's looking out for you. And here was David Kingsdale looking after Brad. Anyways, I think a lot about happiness, and I just had David Brooks on my podcast, and the biggest studies of its kind, all say that happiness comes down to the number of deep and meaningful relationships. That's not a spoiler. Or that seems somewhat obvious. But the wrinkle in it that's really interesting is that the happiest people aren't the ones who are loved the most. It's the ones that have the most people to love, right? That find relationships where they

find people who will love them. William Macy has a great line in the film Magnolia where he says, I have love to give. I just don't know where to give it. And I've been thinking a lot about David. that he just demonstrated so much character when Brad was so vulnerable. Here was a guy, really competent guy who was known for 40 years, calling everyone, finding helping raise money for Brad, finding the right doctors. And this is a guy with his own life, his own career, his own wife, and his own kids. And it just got me thinking that the happiest people are able to find others where they can put a lot of love. Anyways, my win is David Kingsdale, who found, who placed a lot of love in regards.

and give a lot of comfort to our friend Brad Love at the end of his life. So my win is David Kingsdale. Oh, that's lovely, Scott. That is. This is the time, especially when we should be thinking about that stuff. So weird. Our friends are dying, Kara. It's so weird.

It's true. It's true. That's the way it goes. But not today. Not today. Not today. And by the way, Scott, I would take care of you because that's how it's going to go. I'll count on that.

Just bring the hat. It's going to be some facelift. I need you to do two things. I need you to bring the hat and Emily Radikowski. I will. I will bring her. If you had some facelift gone awry, that's how it's going to go. It's a good chance.

That's a good chance. Some Joe Rivers action. Me and George Hahn will do everything it takes to get Emily Radikowski at your bedside with this hat. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I'm going to send it to you. I appreciate that. It has a single white ball.

That's how you operate. Look at this. See? lovely thing to say, but again, I feel my gay pucks are much better. Okay, we want to hear from you. Send us your question about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for this show. Or call 85551 Pivot and elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week on with Kara Swisher. I spoke with podcaster and neuroscientist Sam Harris. We talked about why so many tech billionaires have embraced Trump's authoritarian politics.

Of course we did. Let's listen to a clip. No one ever has to give a rational accounting of how their views have changed. I mean, you know, after January 6th, some of the guys on the All In podcast, I think I think it was Chamoth most vocally, you know, in the aftermath of January 6th. I think he said that, you know, Trump should be in jail for the rest of his life, right? And it's like, so how these guys went from there to where they are now has never been explained, right? and they feel no burden to explain it because they have cultivated audiences that simply don't care

about these kinds of ethical incoherency. Now we're doing this. Now we're doing this. I think that was great and he also noted that they will go right back and pretend it never happened when things go dark, which they are slowly. He's a role model in my, I mean, a genuine role model. Yeah, he and I used to beef all the time.

This was, it's so much, allies have changed so drastically. I have to say, both he and Yuval Harari, who were very tight with the tech pros, have been courageous to push up against them, which Sam has, to his detriment, I would suspect. Sam is literally the personification of a moral compass. He has his principles, and he just never wavered him. I find he's the least perverted adulterate. Money has had the least. He's very successful, and the guys he's referencing are a moral compass gone haywire. It's all about

everything they say in the moment can be reverse engineered to what they believe will make them richer at that moment. That's right. Yeah, I have to say we were, we, I was a really interesting discussion. Okay, that's the show. Let me just say, this is our last one before 2026, because we have taped two shows, a listener episode and a predictions episode, and we are taking a few days off on Christmas and New Year's. And Scott, of course, is traveling the world. I'm just going to San Francisco with my family. We wish you a happy holidays, however you celebrate. And we love our fans. And we love each other, of course, and that goes without saying. And we've had a great year, don't you think, Scott, with our tour, our numbers are going up.

We're having the best time. I think it's been a great, I mean, for a terrible 2025. Yeah, we've had a wonderful year. Thank you. Thanks to you and the fan. And we hope to have a wonderful 2026. We're going to be together for another year at least until whenever. Anyway, thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We'll be back on Friday with a wonderful listener. mail segment in which Scott, as you might imagine, cries. Anyway, Scott, I love you. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. Happy 20, 25 and happy next year. And I'll see you next year. Read us out. Now look forward to it. Today's show was produced by Lara Amin, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and your Todd engineered this episode. Rich Shipley edited the video. Thanks also to Gibros, Ms. Sivir, and Dan Shalon, Nishak Khoraz, Box Media, is executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media.

You can subscribe to the magazine at NYMag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things, tech and business. We want to wish you in 26, the key to happiness, and that is you find people and things to place an immense amount of love. Happy New Year.