Pivot - Can Corporations Plan for a Post-Roe World?

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

Roe v. Wade could be overturned. Kara and Scott discuss the implications for big business and beyond. Also, Uber and Lyft get a flat tire in their first quarter. What does that mean for the millennial lifestyle? And, Vice could go to pieces, and Elon's funding partners are revealed. Send us your Listener Mail questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or via Yappa, at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Today, we'll talk about the Supreme Court's move to strike down Roe v. Wade and what it could mean for American companies and employees.

Also, earnings are in for Lyft and Uber, and it's a mixed bag, as is everybody else's. We'll hear from a listener about inflation, which is still there, everybody. There's a lot of things to talk about. One was lots of COVID from the White House Correspondents' Dinner weekend. Really? Not among the Swish cats, but many of our friends got it, including my ex-wife. Yeah. No kidding.

No kidding. But not this. We got tested, tested, tested. From the White House Correspondents Dinner. I didn't go to the actual dinner, but from parties and stuff like that. I think a lot of people just got it from the parties. I stayed on the porches myself. Not that there's any way to get away from this thing, but lots of COVID going around D.C. Tony Blinken got it from the parties. I stayed on the porches myself. Not that there's any way to get away from this thing,

but lots of COVID going around D.C. Tony Blinken got it. Oh, he got it? No kidding. John Carl. John Carl. All these people. Anyway, as most people predicted,

that this is exactly what a lot of people thought would happen. I mean, in fact, Trevor Noah called it the nation's most prestigious super spreader event. So there you have it. There you have it. But most people seem to be real. I'm like you. This is my Squid Games.

I haven't contracted the novel coronavirus yet. And I'm like, it pays off to not like people. I just, almost everything I'm invited to, I'm like, no, I'd rather stay home and watch Netflix. That's about it. I must speak up for Tammy. You were invited to the brunch, just so you know. I was not. That is not true. That's about it. I must speak up for Tammy. You were invited to the brunch, just so you know. I was not.

That is not true. That is misinformation. She is adamant that you were. You don't read your emails. I think of her every night in my bedroom. Let me add to that. She gave me a Veep pillow that is in my bedroom. With your name on it.

Yeah. She's a charmer. She's a charmer. She's a charmer that Tammy had. I want her to start a podcast called Amanda Named Cone of Silence. I thought it would be very funny because she knows everything. Anyway, speaking of everything, one of the more disturbing stories that we're going to just talk about briefly is a man attending a Netflix comedy festival rushed the stage and tackled comedian Dave Chappelle. The attacker was armed with a knife that looked like a gun, which is, I don't even know what to say.

Chris Rock appeared on the stage afterwards. I guess he was backstage and asked the crowd, was that Will Smith? This is exactly what Kathy Griffin said would happen after the Oscars. She wrote, it's very bad practice to walk up on stage and physically assault a comedian. Now we all have to worry about who wants to be the next Will Smith in comedy clubs and theaters. And this is precise. It was really quite a, he like sacked him. It was really disturbing. Dave Chappelle handled it rather well, but it frightened me, honestly. You're right. Kathy Griffin called it perfectly. And here's an individual who probably thought he was going to be based on precedent given an award 30 minutes later.

Yeah. It kind of does feel as if, and I don't know how much of this is, I'm just old. It does feel like things are kind of falling apart a bit, that when people are getting attacked on stage. Yeah, so I thought it was, again, really disturbing. And would this have happened if Will Smith had not assaulted, I guess we'll never know. Probably has. Yeah, it probably has happened. You know, it probably didn't get the attention. This feels pretty ironic or coincidental, right? Yeah, I would right? I would agree.

I would agree. I would be terrified if you, especially if you're sort of an edgy comedian, a comic like Dave Chappelle or others who have been caught in controversies and everything else. But every comic has that level of, you know, there's supposed to be sort of this give and take with the audience, too. So, that sort of ruins the entire medium if they have to be protected. A lot of very famous people, Jerry Seinfeld, Michelle Wolf, who's my favorite comedian. A lot of famous comedians go on open mic in small clubs where there's no security. There's no, what's going to happen there? I always take it to business.

The thing I found fascinating about this is I found out this was a Netflix production. Yeah. But Netflix going multi-channel. Netflix is now in the business of events, which I found fascinating about this is I found out this was a Netflix production. Yeah. But Netflix going multi-channel. Netflix is now in the business of events, which I found really interesting. And I wonder what they're trying to map out

if they want direct access to their end consumer or, but I thought it was interesting that Netflix is now in the business of events. Anyways. Well, they do these specials. It's a Netflix special.

So they tape specific shows for this. But yeah, it seems like- This was more than that. They're doing a tour. Yeah, it was. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anyways, I're doing a tour. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Anyways, I read about it and I thought,

oh gosh, we're turning into that nation. You know, I thought it was very upsetting. Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if you'll be upset or whatever you think. Elon Musk has friends in his Twitter takeover bid. Larry Ellison threw in a billion dollars. It was a very odd lot. I have to say, I just wrote about it for my column that's going up really soon, but included money from equity

partners like Sequoia Capital, which I think was a couple hundred million. That may have been higher, 700 million. Andreessen Horowitz was 400. No, Sequoia was 800. Andreessen Horowitz was 400. Qatar, that bastion of free speech monarchy 375 million I guess the Saudi prince who said he wasn't going to take it anymore is going to keep his stake Binance kicked in 500 million dollars it was all pretty small sums and no private equity

it was a strange group no Jack Dorsey I don't know if he's going to keep his stake in or not so just so you know Qatari law authorizes the imprisonment of anyone who broadcasts, publishes, republishes false or biased rumors, statements, or news domestically or abroad with an intent to harm national interests. So, nothing says free speech like Qatar and Saudi Arabia. interesting, and that there weren't any big private equity firms. It's not a lot of money. It does draw down the loan, the Morgan Stanley loan, about in half. There probably are more coming, I would guess. What do you think? What do you think of this? Well, in the face of what is now an 1,100-point decline, we taped this on, what is it, Thursday?

Twitter stock is up because he is syndicating. What I was saying was the risk that it wouldn't close. The risk that it would not close has gone down because he's syndicating the debt and people are coming in. As far as I can tell, these are not financial investors. I think the risk here is this feeling. This isn't what I feel. It's not what I would call a mixed, interesting, some progressive, some conservative group of people. This is distinctly, I wouldn't call these folks progressives. Well, they're not. They're kind of just, I mean, Larry Ellison is a mentor of Elon Musk for people who don't know.

Yeah, but isn't Larry pretty conservative? He is, although not on everything. He's sort of where Elon is. Like, it's mixed. But I think it's people who either want to be supportive of Elon or want to get closer to him. And the straight financial guys that have calculators so far don't want near this, except that there's some very smart people taking the debt because they're like, okay, this thing's worth at least $10 or $15 billion, and they'll put in a preferred, which I think is probably a good piece of paper. It's probably a good piece of paper. The thing that stuck out to me is I think if you were to say, all right, Elon takes it private and then in three years takes it public at $100 or $150 billion showing return for everybody.

If you were to say what would happen to make that happen, I think it would involve Twitter becoming a payments platform or adding that. In other words, Twitter becomes two-thirds of the leg of the stool of a super app. And I thought the most interesting was Binance coming in for $500 million. I did too. Because Twitter, if Twitter were to establish itself as a really seamless, low-fee payment, global payment mechanism, you could see the stock. That could be a, quote-unquote, the unlock that Musk is looking for. I agree. I agree. I thought Binance coming in was the most interesting investor. Controversial, Bitcoin exchange, sometimes controversial.

One of the world's richest people is the owner, very suddenly. That was the most interesting person here. Also, Alexander Tomas, who, along with some at DST, put in the early money for Facebook, is here with his. He had a lot. I think his was $700 million. But, again, these are not big. You know, Andreessen Horowitz, $400 million.

It's like in their drawer, essentially. It's a decent amount. I think they want to have a relationship with Moss, so they'll throw some money at it. Yeah, throw some money. Qatar, I don't understand in any way. The Saudi prince who complained, whatever. That guy. I'm assuming Jack is going to keep his things, and he didn't Ronnie. Qatar, I don't understand in any way. The Saudi prince who complained, whatever. That guy. I'm assuming Jack is going to keep his things, and he didn't say.

It doesn't say. Anyway, you know what? He'll probably get more. We'll see. Everybody wants to be friends with the world's most interesting man. So let's put in some money. Should we call him? Tell him we're going to put in like $25,000?

I may actually put in some money into the dead instrument. I think it's a good piece of paper. Yeah. Anyways. Let's do that. Let's become Twitter investors in any case. Twesters. Twesters.

Twesters. Like, why not? Like, why not? You know, whatever. So we'll see if he gets it. He is a lot closer in that regard. He doesn't have to pay. It's still an enormous sum of money he's going to have to pay in debt payments, and it's more than Twitter makes right now.

So he's got to make something quick, make some trouble quick and money-wise. Vice Media could be sold for parts. I know. Talk about that, since you had some affiliation with them. Vice has reportedly hired bankers to seek a sale of the company,

whole or otherwise. It's the latest twist from the company, once valued at $5.7 billion. Half of it failed to join a SPAC last year. BuzzFeed and Vox reported interest in buying parts of Vice. That makes sense. Jim Bancombe's probably sharpened his little pencil. What do you think? What do you think?

What a chain. The guy who started it was very chess puffy. It was a very chess puffy company. So what do you think about this? very chest-puffy company. So what do you think about this? This was, I never thought it was, I thought it was an advertising platform,

but, and with a lot of like drug-induced programming, but some of it good, some of it good. What do you think? You worked there. This is, yeah, I worked there for a whole six shows. My adventures in TV. So misadventures is probably what we should call it. Just waiting for you back here at the ranch, but go ahead.

There you go. Coming home. You need here at the ranch, but go ahead. There you go. Coming home. You need to go off ranch, but that's okay. I was banging my secretary, but I'm back with my tail between my legs, honey. I'm home. I'm thinking you're more like a piece of cattle. I'm home. Go ahead, but you go right to a sexual remark.

I've returned. I don't even want to go into Madison Cawthorn. We're not even discussing that for one second. Which would be a very good Vice segment. Have you heard of waxing? That's all I could think. Someone sent that to me. I'm like, really?

Yeah, everyone was talking about that. There were so many funny. There were so, George Hahn was having quite a birthday, I would say. Oh, my God. Yeah, he needed to do some. That was rough. That was really disturbing. Clean up.

What were we talking about? Vice. So, look, the tail that's wagging. By the way, I liked him more after that, but go ahead. Go ahead. The Republicans are out to kill him. I don't care. Kill him, guys.

I don't care what you do to him. I got to be honest. I'm just so thankful there's an R next to that name. It's just like— Well, of course there is. Come on. Give me a break. That's where all the sickos are.

Anyway— I disagree with that. I don't think the Republicans have a monopoly on sick. They hide it away. They're wearing fishnet stockings underneath their trousers. I just have a wide stance, Carol. Which is good. I have a wide stance.

Which is good. Will you please go into vice? Well, I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I just, better than Cawthorn fell into my head. I didn't know how we could not discuss it. It's viral, so to speak. I get it. I get it.

Now we'll not leave either of our heads for a while. Yeah. So, Vice, the tale that's wagging the dog of media right now is Netflix losing three-quarters of its value. And that is, just look at it this way. When it was at $350 billion market cap with 220 million subscribers, they were saying that, all right, subscribers are worth about $1,500 a pop. Now, all of a sudden, in the world of streaming media or the world of media, streamers are worth $400 per subscriber. And if you're in the ad stack or the cable or ad-supported bundle, which is the shittier

part, what is that worth? And so Vice, which was at $6 billion and then was trying to SPAC at $3 billion and couldn't get out, this thing probably gets sold for parts at a – it'll be a big story because it will – Rupert Murdoch was in there? Who was in there? There's a lot of big investors in there. I think Disney was in there, weren't they? Yeah, Disney was in there.

Yeah, poor Nancy Dubuque was in there trying to clean that thing up after. So you're going to see – this is the – this isn't even the – we're kind of at letter C in what is the great kind of recalibration in media, both streaming and that supported. You're going to see distressed property. Vice is very quickly going to become a distressed asset sale. Vice was already in trouble. Like, nobody has thought they've had the mojo. There wasn't a mark on the price.

We're now going to see the price. That's exactly right. We're going to see that this thing is probably worth less than a billion after being worth supposedly six billion. Because if Netflix has lost 72% of its value, can you imagine how much Vice has lost? Well, yes. Yes, I would agree. I mean, I was always sort of not down on them. Shane was amusing on some level.

There's all kinds of weirdness going on there. I remember walking in and there was their headquarters in Brooklyn. And there was like a full bar right in the lobby with all the employees drinking. And I'm like, well, hello, you know, this is not good. This is like sexual harassment suits and problems at work. And they just ran it not like a business, but a party. I think you're incorrectly conflating alcohol with harassment. I don't know. OK, fine. But whatever. It wasn't good to have a full bar in the middle of a workplace that that was. I think that's pretty fucking awesome, quite frankly.

Okay, but no. Not our company. That's not going to be happening. Anyway. But they also had all this amazing equipment when they were trying to do Vice News Tonight and everything else. I was torn around the most astonishing. I was like, money, money, money, money, money everywhere. And I think I went back to Jim Backoff.

I'm like, they're fucked because they're spending all their money. Anyway, where do you imagine money everywhere. And I think I went back to Jim Backoff. I'm like, they're fucked because they're spending all their money. Anyway, where do you imagine, who's going to buy it? Who's going to buy these things, these pieces and what? I don't understand. I've never understood. So I'll turn it back to you. I've never understood how Vice makes money. I don't- Advertising. Well, okay. So, but- Artisanal advertising. The distribution. I mean, they had good advertisers on my show. I'll give them that. I've never understood what is the real asset with Vice. And it'd be really interesting to know if and what Vox will pick up, but Jim is a very disciplined-

They should pick up Fuck That's Delicious. That's a great show. My kids love it. I think Jim's a disciplined operator, and whatever he picks up, he's going to pick up on the cheap, quite frankly. So, I don't know. I think this thing gets sold for operator, and whatever he picks up, he's going to pick up on the cheap, quite frankly. So I don't know. I think this thing gets sold for parts, and it'll be a distress sale, and there's more of this to come, consolidation, distress sales. There's some good shows over there, but that doesn't mean the talent will come, right? What are the good shows? I just don't know.

Well, there was a bunch. My kids watched some of the shows on there for a while. Bikers? Do they have shows on bikers or on wrestling? Yeah, there's a couple. I just watched some of the shows on there for a while. Bikers? Did they have shows on bikers or on wrestling? Yeah, there's a couple. I just don't know. I know nothing about Vice. They were definitely a shooting star with a lot of liquor.

That's all I remember. We've brought so much insight to this story. That's why people come to Pivot. You know, I saw that. They have a bar. Oh, my God. You're welcome. No, but it was indicative.

I interviewed the CEO. He was drunk most times I interviewed him. It was whatever. Hey, live and love. I talked interviewed the CEO. He was drunk most times I interviewed him. Shame? Hey, live and love. I talked to him once. He struck me as a pretty thoughtful guy. He's great. He's really interesting.

And then he went off and bought a big house that was featured in newspapers. The whole thing felt like just not a serious endeavor. Worse yet, I heard there's alcohol inside the house. Oh, my God. That's not what I'm talking about. Oh, my God. That's not what I'm talking about. Oh, my God.

It wasn't run as a business. It was like, hey, it was so trendy. Everyone wanted to work there. You know, they made offers to a lot of my—it just was irritating. I want to bring back the three-martini lunch. I'm in. I'm ready. We're not doing it.

Okay. Let me give you—on the lastly, and then we'll get to the big story. John Doerr is giving Stanford University $1.1 billion to fund a school focused on climate change and sustainability. It'll be the largest donation to an establishment of a new school ever. The school will have departments focused on things like, this is from the New York Times, planetary science, energy technology, and food and water security, and a center focused on practical policy and tech solutions to the climate crisis. A lot of people think this is great.

I do. I'm one of them. Other people think the money could be better use, but he's part of a string of people. I'm very – I think it's good that John is doing this. And it'll be interesting to see what will happen for this. What do you think? So, immediately I went on Twitter and a lot of people saying he could have done so much more with this money for climate change. People are very generous with other people's money.

I think this is wonderful. And I like John Doerr. I think he, and this is my boomer, I think he harkens back to an age where VCs demonstrated more grace. He does not make personal attacks. He's very thoughtful. I think he's very civic-minded. Every interaction I've had with him, he's been nothing but generous and a gentleman. And so I kind of miss the Buffett-Doer approach to investing. And giving $1.1 billion, I hope that it expands the enrollments, that part of that capital is used to expand the size. Because the issue I've always had with Stanford is it's become a luxury brand more than a public servant because of incredibly- That would be good if John insisted on that. And he's in a position to do that.

But this is the first school, I think, started at Stanford in a long time. $1.1 billion is an extraordinary gift. I think climate change, obviously more peer-reviewed research. Look, Bloomberg is doing his thing. Jeff Bezos is doing his worst fund. Obviously, Gates is very—and, you know, Doar is an interesting character. I've known him for a very long time. We've had lots of wrangling, you know, Dora is an interesting character. I've known him for a very long time. We've had lots of wrangling, you know, over that Ellen Pau case.

We did some pretty tough coverage of his firm and how he was running it at the time. But I got to say, of all the people I cover, he was a professional. We had wrangles and then we didn't. Like, you know what I mean? Like, the rest of them have gone down some weird conspiracy Masters of the Universe lane. He never has and certainly has been one of the most successful tech investors in history. You're never going to find John Doerr on Twitter attacking people. No, or just saying that he's better.

Or diminishing people. Joking. Dumb, stupid bro jokes. No. You get the sense he's generally, he's at a point in his life where he recognizes his blessings and he wants to be part of solutions. I think it's great. He's got about $11 billion himself. Good for him.

Good for Stanford. Yeah. Good for Stanford. All right. Let's get on to our first big story. How does corporate America plan for a post Roe v. Wade world? That's one of the many questions following the leaked Supreme Court draft opinion this week. Already this year, abortion laws in Texas and other states have forced companies to take stances protecting their employees. Some companies like

Yelp now offer to pay for employee travel to states where abortion is legal. Now more companies could be put in the same position as they try to support employees while complying with state laws that could come in June when the Supreme Court is expected to rule. We don't know if this is a draft decision. I just did two very interesting podcasts, one with the group that argued against the Mississippi law, the head of the Center for Reproductive Rights. And then I had three lawyers on George Conway, Neil Kochel, and Amy Kepchinsky, who was a Yale law professor who had a really interesting thread about where this is going. What do you think the impact on companies will be? Most of the companies have been silent except for companies like Yelp and others who have been very out front.

Everyone's been very quiet, but Airbnb has spoken out Levi Strauss. Yelp and Citi already pay for employees to travel to states where abortion is legal. This week, Amazon, United Talent Agency, where I am a client of them, and Amalgamated Bank all announced they'll pay for travel as well for people who are in states where they can't get abortions. But nothing from Disney, Meta, things like that. Yeah, I really do think it's important. And obviously, you know, I'm squarely on one side of this issue, but I heard Dara Kostashahi this morning say that Uber will be supportive of their employees. And I believe he said their drivers. Look, I think

every, I'd like to see every CEO say, we respect people's personal decisions and their beliefs, and we will pay for you to terminate a pregnancy. And also, out of deference to the other side, we will pay for you also to not have an abortion. So, but I've been thinking about this a lot over the last 24 hours. I'm sure you're thinking about it. And I get to, I start with the outrage, right? have this scar tissue that keeps getting worse called the Trump administration, where we had a 75-year-old man who fucks porn stars without a condom and now has basically figured out a way to take a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy. If you're a woman living in New York or Illinois or California, this will have no impact on you. This is a war on poor women in states that are

conservative, full stop. And when then I think about, well, this is what's going to happen. We have all this moral outrage on the left and, you know, yelling and— No, but listen a minute. They warned this was coming. Everyone said they were overwrought and they weren't. Yes, but there was so much like, don't—left, stop it. Stop saying this is going to happen. I'm just saying.

Oh, I think people knew this was coming. Okay, but there was a lot of pushback. These three justices, associate justices most recently appointed, stood in front of the Senate or sat in front of the Senate and they lied. They absolutely lied. And you want to talk about an unbelievable fall in the prestige of an institution, which I think is part, strength in our institutions is so important. strengthening our institutions is so important. The Supreme Court is now a place where you have a wife who's aiding and abetting insurrection and not disclosing $700,000 from the Heritage Foundation. They're now having documents leaked, which you've never seen before. And you also have the Supreme Court, and I'm going to move to a solution because I'm turning

into one of these people who's outraged with no solutions. They confer rights. They don't take them away. So I want to be, I'm like, okay, we're going to hear all this outrage from the left expecting Republicans to be offended and they won't be and move to the solution. And I think it all comes down to the same thing. And that is the left will say we need more Democrats. Okay, fine. Here's the thing. You're always going to have between 45 and 55 Republican senators. The key to this is Lisa Murkowski, or specifically, if we don't put in place mechanisms for more moderates, specifically more moderate Republicans, we're not going to get past this doesn't represent, this also represents a dangerous trend in America, and that is minority rule. The majority of Americans are in favor of a woman's right to choice. If we don't go—

But they are in favor of it with restrictions, just so you're fair. Like, I want to be fair here. There's a lot of—they're saying a majority agrees. I don't think they agree to it in full. They agree—if you look down in the numbers, and the Times actually had a very good piece about this, it's a little more complex. but yes, yes, the majority do. I think they were kind of where Bill Clinton was, and that is he agreed that at a certain time limit, anyways, I get the nuance, but the majority of Americans believe that a woman should have what we would call decent access or reasonable opportunities should she decide to terminate her pregnancy. And that is not what this ruling reflects.

And you're going to have half the states in the union basically go very far or close to or outright out banning it. They've got these trigger laws in place that would—they've already gone pretty far. But here's the thing. That's just the whole point. This is how it got to this point. These three justices wouldn't have been confirmed, or at least one or two of them wouldn't have been, had there been five or 10, quote unquote, senators that represented the Republican Party, and that is they were center-right Republicans. And we don't have that because- Well, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski don't look very good here, do they? They believed

what they were told, and everyone said, this is not how it's going to go down. Okay, but you can't put it all on them. I think the majority of our problems stem from the fact that we have an electoral system that rewards batshit crazy right and left candidates. And until we have ranked—Lisa Murkowski might get reelected because of ranked choice voting. Until we have more moderates— the Democrats are failing, in my opinion. They think we need this as a rallying cry to get more Democrats in office. Fine. It'll always be somewhere in the middle. The only way we move to a nation that actually represents the will of the people is when we start electing more moderates on both sides. All right. All right.

Away from the political, Scott's political sayings. This is going to affect companies, right? Okay, especially tech companies. And it's really interesting, a law banning abortion, any new laws banning abortion. And by the way, many think that some of the Republicans are going to try to aim for a federal ban on abortion. We'll see if that happens. And also the ensuing, could they get marriage equality? Could they get gay sex, contraception? suing could they get marriage equality, could they get gay sex, contraception. I'm not going to slip very slow, but you know, you hear them coming for it, and all the gay people know just how vicious they can be. This week, one data broker announced that they'll stop selling location data to people who visit women's health clinics. That announcement came only after reporters at Vice revealed the practice, speaking of Vice, and social media platforms could face pressure to remove abortion-related content. That's another wrinkle in this that people get these pills that are sent across

state lines in the mail. That's another one. You know, privacy protections will be never more important for people, especially if these states institute these nutty laws of if you move from one state to the next to get an abortion, they're going to try to arrest you. Probably will not hold up in court. That won't. But nonetheless, decriminalization in some states of this could be problematic. So encryption will be important. Privacy legislation. You know, these are all important things. And then companies deciding what to do and how they're going to get sucked up into these crossing state lines or paying for travel or whatever it happened, whatever nutty thing Mississippi comes up with. I'm sure that would be one of the states that would come up with it,

or Texas. Well, 50% of our workforce is women. And if you want to talk about a group of a cohort that is definitely pro-choice, it's women. And so it just strikes me, and you're going to need some momentum here, but I think you're going to see it. I think you're going to see more CEOs say, I believe people are entitled to their own viewpoint here, but we are going to be supportive, whatever your viewpoint is. And I do think you're going to see more and more of that. And then you have Yahoo's in Texas saying we're going to revoke tax status or we're not going to let you issue. I think they said it to Citibank. We're not going to do municipal bonds with you if you pay for people to terminate pregnancy. There'll be some of that, but I think the will of America will come through here. Well, they did it in Florida. They did it in Florida to Disney.

World of hurt for Disney in Florida, but also for Florida, it turned out that these bonds that they have to now, the taxpayers now have to pay for. I think the good money there is on the mouse. I think Disney is going to outlive DeSantis in Florida. And people will calm down and go, do we really want to take, do we really want to discourage organizations like Disney from coming to Florida? Anyway, but then again, I may be just projecting. But companies cannot stay apolitical now. It's so ridiculous. I know a lot of companies have told me, oh, we want to just, like, you can't. I'm just sorry. These are, especially on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and things like that, as controversial as they may seem,

you've got to pick a lane on these things and support your employees. But you can sort of, I mean, to a certain extent, though, on this issue, you can say we really are into this Republican notion of liberty and you get to decide. And that's what that's the we're not saying we're not pro-life. We're not pro-choice. We're like up to you. We realize the controversial issues. So we're going to adopt this basic GOP principle around freedom and liberty.

And we're going to get us out of the decision. And it's up to the individual. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens from here. This Alito, Alito is really quite off on some island of his own. It's really interesting how aggressive he was in this draft decision. I think he pushed it a lot too far, a lot too far, not a little too far. the 1400s and a bunch of people that were really vile to women. It's really just this whole, I read the whole thing.

And of course, I was, of course, focused in on Obergefell, which is the gay marriage one and Lawrence versus Texas, which is gay sex. They can pry my gay marriage from my cold dead hands if they want to, that kind of thing. Like, you know what I mean? Like that gun thing. Good luck. Good luck. I'm a huge fan of gay marriage.

Why shouldn't you have to suffer? It's just not fair. It's just not fair. In any case, good luck getting it from us lesbians. We're not giving it up anytime soon. And it will take quite a bit more than this to push us down. Anyway, but it was a disturbing turn of events. We'll see what happens.

It may not, this may not be the draft. I think John Roberts seems to want to make it much less so, and he maybe has the upper hand to pull, to peel away Kavanaugh and others.

But that's the thing, I'm not sure he does have, I don't think he has the hand anymore. I think he's going to pull, I think he's going to, this is my feeling, peeling him away. He's going to peel him away.

I don't think they're peelable, Kara. It's 6-3 conservative now. I do. I know, but I think, but I think Alito went too far. I don't think they want to sign their names to this. I don't think they want to sign their names to this for history's sake even. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about a rough quarter for peer-to-peer economy and take a listener question about inflation. and take a listener question about inflation. time we'd have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more

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We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive? Even my own father fell victim to a, thank goodness, a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim and we have these conversations all the time. So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other. Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get

home projects done. Out. Carpet in the bathroom. Like, why? In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Okay, Scott, we're back with our second big story. It's such a busy week. It's been a rough ride for Uber and Lyft this quarter. Lyft shares dropped nearly 30%, as you were talking about,

everyone's going to the woodshed on Wednesday. After the company issued light guidance for the second quarter, the company said that it will have to spend on driver incentives due to rising fuel costs. Things weren't much better at Uber, which reported a net loss of more than $5 billion even as revenue jumped.

That's not all bad news in the peer-to-peer economy. Airbnb posted 70% revenue growth, beating estimates. Boy, is that company doing well. But, you know, this is the tough times after the not-so-tough times. So, although Omicron was a big part of the first quarter of 2022, what do you think? Yeah, but, I mean, and, Grant, I'm a shareholder here, so I have a bias.

I'm a huge fan of Brian Chesky. Airbnb was up 70% the revenues year-on-year in the most recent quarter. I mean, all their metrics are really up and to the right. It doesn't—and, by the way, they're now booking more than pre-pandemic. So they're back and stronger than ever. And also to Lyft's credit, I'm sorry, to Uber's credit, they now make more money delivering food. So Dara saw the writing on the wall. Boy, do we spend a lot of money on that.

He's done a really good job pivoting. They're down 30%. The company that does not survive here or doesn't survive as an independent company and will be acquired is Lyft, which had a $7.5 billion. To who? Who acquires it? That's a really interesting company. My whole rap here is around super rap. I think someone wants to be the GMR to the Alibaba of the U.S., and either a social or a payments company acquires Lyft.

It's got a $7.5 billion market cap, which isn't a lot. So you can imagine. Give me a name. I don't want to say a name. I think a fintech company. Come on. Don't be lazy. Say a name. Well, it's $7.5 billion. I mean, what if, okay, what if the day before, I don't know if Amazon gets into it. I think it's a payments company. I don't think it's e-commerce. I think it's payments. I think it's payment. Amazon would be interesting too.

Whoever wants to say, I think your ability to go on an earnings call and say, three legs of the stool are payments, transportation, and social. And so a social company, a payments company that says, by the way, we're the only company in the world that's two of the three because we just purchased Lyft, so now we're in transportation and now we're a payments company or now we're social and transportation. I think their stock, I think the day they announced that, their stock pays for the acquisition of Lyft. What about an autonomous car company that wants a reservation system?

Autonomous car company? Yeah, Tesla or Google or any of GM, those people. They need a reservation system. And they have direct interface with consumers. That's really interesting. I hadn't even thought of that. You need a reservation system. And they have a direct interface with consumers. That's really interesting. You could see, I hadn't even thought of that. You could see an automobile company try and get into autonomous, try and immediately overnight jumpstart their electric and autonomous with all the accounts they have.

So look, Lyft is now worth more to someone else than they are to the market because they do have a direct interface. They have the credit card of a bunch of people who are used to ordering through their interface. So you're right. It could either go the super app way or someone like you said who wants to jumpstart their autonomous. Tesla? The company gets acquired. That's the bottom line. At $7.5 billion, they realize they're subscale. They didn't get into food. They're a distant number two, which you never want to be. But not Uber. Uber stays independent, is your feeling. I think Uber's too expensive for someone to acquire.

Why doesn't Airbnb buy Uber? Why doesn't Airbnb buy Uber? Because I don't think they can afford it. I mean, I think Airbnb is like $100 billion, and I don't know what Uber is. I think Uber is too expensive. Uber right now, it's got a market cap of $52 billion. You'd have to spend $70 or $80 to buy it. There's very few companies that could buy it right now. It's got a market cap of $52 billion. You'd have to spend $70 or $80 to buy it. There's very few companies

that could buy it right now. Anyways, Airbnb, the numbers are amazing. Uber has made the right move strategically. Dara doesn't get the credit he deserves. He is thinking

two steps ahead. Lyft does not have the scale to be an independent company and somebody, TBD, will acquire it because it is worth, I do think it's not worth

$7.5 billion in an independent company. It's worth more than that to an automobile company. Yeah, it's an easy lift for a lot of companies. A lot of companies, easy lift. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. This one came via email from Lauren in Canada. I'll read it. I have a question about inflation, which you discussed in an earlier episode. Scott said that inflation isn't due to price gouging because it's clearly something the market can bear. But in some cases, such as food, gas, et cetera, people don't have a choice as to whether or not they purchase a good because

it's a necessity for survival. At a time when grocery execs received millions in pandemic-related bonuses and average people were speaking loudly about the almost unaffordable price of groceries and gas. How does Scott's analysis of market prices account for human necessity? Scott, why don't you answer that? Just executives at two of Canada's largest chains, Canadian Tire and Loblaws supermarkets, received multimillion-dollar bonuses in 2021, and in the U.S., 22 major corporations generated an additional $1.5 trillion for shareholders during the pandemic, which is not a surprise. That's $57 more than the additional wages that went to workers, a study from Brookings. All right, Scott, what do you say?

I'm going to let you answer that one. The answer is, so how does my analysis account for the human pain? The answer is it doesn't. And what you see across inflation, or you've seen over the last year, is that everyone talks about the great resignation and how wages have gone up for frontline workers. The reality is their wages have gone down on an inflation-adjusted basis. And if you look at their purchasing power, it's either flat or down because the category is that they spend a disproportionate amount of their income on because they don't have as much disposable income as a wealthy person. Food, energy, housing, energy prices. We all know what's happened there. Food prices way up. So where I am is I think the government needs to take minimum wage to 20 bucks an hour. I don't think you can control CEO pay, and I don't think

you want to, but you can have a progressive tax structure and get rid of all these tax loopholes and level and just have capital gains tax, don't have a difference between ordinary income and capital gains. But I'm for a transfer of wealth. The middle class is an accident. It does not exist organically. And unless we reinvest in it, and everyone likes to think that climate change will happen while making billions and that the middle class will restore with market forces. No, it doesn't. We have to make investments that hurt. And one of the things that hurts is we have to raise taxes on, I think we have to do away

with capital gains. I think there's absolutely no reason you should get a tax break for owning a home, but not get a tax break for renting a home. Who rents? Younger, less wealthy people who owns homes. Older, richer people who own stocks and gets a 22.8% tax rate versus a 37. What do you know? People who own stocks who are older and rich. So I agree with her. People don't talk about the fact that CEO pay is up dramatically.

The question is, how do you address it? And I don't think market dynamics are going to work here. I think we have to raise minimum wage dramatically. I think we have to have UBI or form of UBI. I think we need to restore that. To what? 25? 25? Is that what you're saying? I think that would be too much too fast for companies. I think a lot of good companies would find themselves unsustainable if they had to pay everybody $25 an hour. And also, on $18 an hour, if you have two folks making $18 an hour and you live in certain parts of the U.S., you can string together a middle-class lifestyle.

So I think $25 is aggressive. I used to think $15. Now I'm thinking $20. But for God's sake, $7.25? Come on. Yep. Agreed. Agreed.

But go to the underlying root cause of this. In the United States, we spent 27% of GDP on the stimulus. In most nations, they spent 20 or less. We spent the second most in the world. A lot of money. And by the way, some of that money, we threw some loaves of bread and some circuses for the poor,

but most of it went into the market. Yeah, it went to rich people. It did. It did. When that gets taken apart by a really great investigative reporter. Obscene. Or a bunch.

Obscene. It's going to be obscene. We were offered, and this is a chance to virtue signal it, my company, I have an ed tech company that's raised

tens of millions in venture capital. My CFO came in and said, oh, PPP, sign here, Scott. We're going to get $280,000. For what?

Free money. All we have to do is not lay off anybody and we're growing. We're hiring people and we're going to get $280,000. And we're growing. We're hiring people. And we're going to get $280,000. And my first instinct was like, right on, sister. Give me that. I'm going to sign it. And I started thinking about it. And I went to my board and I'm like, should we be taking $280,000 from the federal government? Our employees on average make about $130,000 or $140,000 a year. Everyone on this board is worth tens of millions of dollars.

The people, our investors are raising multibillion-dollar funds, $280,000. That's what the after-school programs cost at a high school. I'm like, we can't take this money. And to their credit, every one of them, every single board member down the line said, of course we're not going to take this money. Yeah, but you could have gotten it. But you could, yeah. They have done great reporting on this, but there is a, I would love to see a database where you understand where the money went and why, in a way. They won't be able to figure it out, too, the way it was handed out on both administrations. I think they're never going to be able to follow the money. They already know, two-thirds ended up in the top quintile, in the pockets of the top quintile.

This was nothing but cloud cover to make rich people richer. Yep. We totally overdid it, and we've now got inflation because we showered. We took an obese, I've said this, an obese economy, and we've shoved thousands of gallons down the throat of it of ice cream. And think, $7 trillion, 115 million households, take the poor 60,000, take the below the medium, say the 50 or 60 million households that are below the medium, you could have given each of them $100,000. What would have that done to poverty? What would that have done for the economy? Well, you know, poor people can't spend money right, Scott. They don't

know how to handle money. Such crap. They spend it all. That's why you love giving money. That's correct. That is correct. So ridiculous. Whenever I hear that, I want to push people's face in, but I wouldn't because it's wrong. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own and you'd like it answered, send it our way.

That was a great question, Lauren. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Giving your unused data rollover to the following month. Every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz.ca. All right, Scott. Some wins and fails.

I will go to a win. I hear Top Gun 2 is fantastic. Really? I'll mention it again. Everybody who's seen it, Matt Bellany, all kinds of people say that it's so good. It's going to be a big hit. It's going to do good for theaters, which I'm willing to see. I'm going to see it in the theater.

Big win. Big frigging win. You're going into the danger zone? You're ready? I'm going into the danger zone. I love every word of that movie. I love that movie so much. Is Tom Skerritt in this film?

No. Oh, I don't know. He's a good-looking man. He's the commander. He's a good-looking man. He is a good-looking man. I don't know. Will he be back? He's a good-looking man. He's the commander. He's a good-looking man. He is a good-looking man. I don't know. I hope so.

What about Goose? Is Goose back in it? Goose is dead. Edward Morris? Oh, he died. Goose is dead. It's a movie. It's a movie.

He's been... Goose was... You know who his wife was in the movie? Meg Ryan? Meg Ryan. Meg Ryan. She's in her first big role for her. I mean, it was a small role, but it was a big role. She was adorable in the movie? Meg Ryan. Meg Ryan. Meg Ryan. She's in her first big role for her. I mean, it was a small role,

but it was a big role. She was adorable in that movie. That's my win. I don't have a fail because I'm so excited about Top Gun 2. I don't even know what to say to myself. Oh, fail. Judge Alito.

Screw you. Anyway. So my fail is similar, but a different take on it. My fail is that the left will be outraged and, again, is focused on what offends us, what they think offends us versus what affects us, and we should move to solutions. I believe that moderates and the Democratic Party need to focus on ranked choice voting and figuring out a way to have a representative government and get more moderates. I don't think we'd be sitting here had we just had a small number of moderates

in the Republican Party. And also, we need more moderates in the Democratic Party. That's my fail, is the outrage that will not result in anything effective here. All right. Can you just note that this ruling, this draft decision is repulsive? Can you just, not just blame the left immediately? This is a repulsive, repulsive sentiment they've all been working on forever. Cara, my success is a function of family planning. I've written about this, and I don't think my mother would be embarrassed by this. When my mom was 47, she got pregnant.

I remember her telling me about it. When my mom was 47, she got pregnant. I remember her telling me about it. And you're 17. You're the only son. You're going to have to take economic responsibility for a house. Would it change my life? Mm-hmm.

A hundred percent. So my mother's access to family planning meant I could go to college. It meant I could start businesses that employed hundreds of people. And also, my mom's access to family planning meant I could have kids. So, if you want loving, secure households with kids, economically secure households, you want access to family planning. They've got it all wrong here. Men out there have to realize this has a huge impact on us. A hundred percent. Anyways, I'm going to my win. All right. Whenever I talk about- Scott, I like when you get emotional.

Whenever I talk about my mom, I get choked up. I know. Your mom sounds wonderful. Anyways, I'm going to go to my win. So, when I was in junior high school, you know, you think about who you're going to, your fantasy wife. You thought we both thought about that probably. Anyway, our fantasy wife, my fantasy wife was going to be the lead singer of Supertramp. And then I found out it was all dudes. So I'm still angry at Supertramp for misleading me like that. So I went on to my next fantasy wife. Okay. Who was that?

Pat Benatar, who is being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. She's finally getting the recognition. She's finally getting the recognition she deserves. I think she's a fantastic artist, a fantastic performer. I saw her perform. So is Dolly Parton. That's right. But my win is my future wife and the next life, or my wife when I was a 14-year-old,

Pat Benatar. Sing a little bit for us. Sing a little Pat Benatar to get your mood back up. What is it? Love is for angels? No, no, no. Hell is for angels? She's fantastic.

Give me your best shot. Hit me with your best shot. That's right. Anyways, Pat Benatar, she's wonderful. Thank you for that. Pat Benatar. Anyways, my win is Pat Benatar. Good for you.

I like that. I do. That is a good win. And she's amazing. She was an important artist. I don't remember who my fantasy wife was. I'm trying to think. Oh, I know.

Mary Stewart Masterson. Really? Oh, yeah. Hello. She was in the movie with Some Kind of Wonderful. Some Kind of Wonderful. She was very good.

She was very good. I loved her with that. That movie where she was in it with the little, with gloves that have fringe on them, which are repulsive to me on every aspect. I loved her anyway.

She was fantastic. Remember gloves with fringe on them? I do. I do. Gloves with fringe. A lot of drummers had those. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Mary Stewart Masterson. Interesting. Interesting. I hadn't remembered that in many years. Anyway, this has been a lovely show. I really appreciate you

saying that about your mom. This is a much wider effect. Without the outrage, everybody, my own family, I can't go into it because it's private, but same thing. There was a situation, and our whole lives would have been different. Yeah. I wouldn't be here. Anyway, yep, wouldn't be here.

I wouldn't be on this podcast. And we have to be, we can't let the anger make us blind to what we need to have done here. So, we should be angry, but also purposeful going forward. And also, good luck, Madison Cawthorn. That's all I have to say about that. That's right. God be with you. Recuse yourself.

What was he yelling at us? We are supportive of your preferences. We are. We would just prefer you to go away is what we would prefer to do. And do that in private because it's good. If you like it, we like it. Anyway, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out. Today's show was produced by

Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Andretat engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Emil Silverio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.