Pivot - CEO Shooting, Bitcoin Surge, and Bezos’s Trump Optimism

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Kara and Scott discuss the highlights from The New York Times DealBook Summit, including Jeff Bezos saying he’s “optimistic” about a second Trump term, and Sam Altman trying to make nice with Elon Musk. Then, the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson has prompted a wave of reactions on social media. Plus, the French government collapsed on Wednesday, and South Korea’s president is facing impeachment after declaring martial law. Also, in good news for cryptocurrency, Trump’s new SEC pick has caused Bitcoin to surge. Stay tuned for listener mail to hear Kara and Scott pick their dream administrations. Vote in this week’s poll here! Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on Bluesky at @pivotpod.bsky.social. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Italian craftsmanship, from small leather goods to the iconic pug handbag, or signature loafers and belts. Visit Ferragamo.com to discover the most thoughtful holiday gifts for the entire family. You do spy on me. You fucking text me at three in the morning. You know what I'm doing in all moments. I do know what you're doing in all moments, but I've got to keep track of you because you're up to things. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from

New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Scott, it is cold as a mother outside. It is freezing here in Washington. Really? I feel like I live in London. No, if you lived in London, it would be 50 and dark already.

Yeah. You'd be thinking, a spot of tea. Ask where the dog is, Kara. Where is the dog? Where are you? Where are you? I'm in the Cotswolds. I'm in the Cotswolds.

We're moving, and my job when we move is to simply put, get the fuck out of the way. And my value add is to bring the dogs out to the Cotswolds. Here, let me do my impression of me moving. I'm in a room packing my stuff. And occasionally you just hear an expletive and then where are my edibles? I can't find my edibles.

And so the Panzer tank commander who is organizing this move has decided. Your wife, yeah. I am not a value add and my job is to leave and take the dogs with me. So I'm out at Heckfield Place taking long walks with the dogs and having farm, all organic breakfasts and. Oh, okay. Do you know who else is in the Cotswolds? I'm sure there's quite a few people.

Ellen DeGeneres and her wife, Portia de Rossi, they've moved from the United States. All organic breakfasts and- Okay. Do you know who else is in the Cotswolds? I'm sure there's quite a few people. Ellen DeGeneres and her wife, Portia de Rossi, they've moved from the United States. To the Cotswolds? Yeah, apparently. I did not run into Ellen on my walk today, but- Well, I'm just saying. It could be like a beautiful, one of those British romances where you ride up on the horse.

Accidentally dropped my scarf or she drops her scarf? Yes. There's something or else they just, they run out into the moors or whatever the hell they can. I think I'm more into her wife, Portia. She was great in Arrested Development. I thought she was hilarious. She was great in a lot of things. She was in Ally McBeal, you don't remember that.

That's back by the way, you can watch it. I never watched Ally McBeal, I never- Oh my God, do yourself a favor there in the Cod Swalls and get your butt, I think it's on one of them, I forget. You know, my cue does not include Ally McBeal. I'm just telling you, you'd like it. Shockingly, I have this feeling that you would like it. Anyway, well, that's nice.

I'm here in the District of Columbia. DC, but do you have sunshine there? Like has the sun been out in the last seven days? No, it's gray today. It's gonna be sunshine and freezing tomorrow, but no, we have gray and I am preparing for a weekend of Christmas parties. I was supposed to go to the Metta holiday party tonight,

but Amanda is under the weather a little bit. We'll just stay home and self-harm. Same, same. That's funny. That invitation must have got lost in the mail for me. I didn't get invited to the Metta party. Yeah. They like me at the Metta Washington office. Don't tell Mark, but they do. That's because you're powerful. They don't need to the mail for me. I didn't get invited to the Metta party. Yeah. They like me at the Metta Washington office. Don't tell Mark, but they do. That's because you're powerful.

They don't need to be nice to me. I hate them, but I have no power, so they can just not invite me. They hate you, but you have power, so they pretend to like you. A couple of them are super smart. I think they're not. That's the problem. A lot of them are super smart.

That's the whole problem. Yeah. You're right. You're 100 percent right. Then go into a bunch of parties. It's going to be fun. It's a holiday party weekend is here in DC. You're going to get drunk and make out with anybody? No. Or be stumbling drunk and then run for, and then be a nominee for the cabinet?

No, I'm a rare party goer. I'm very rare and I leave early. I'm not like, and I don't give a lot. I don't give a lot and that's my power. I'm like, let's see. I'm glad you finally acknowledged that across all your relationships, Gara. Your tea stirring is loud. I can hear your dinkidly dink.

Let me hear that again. No, it's one of these weird bottles that they can't just give you water. It has to be something classy and stylish. British design actually really stepped it up and the odds. It even says on it, still water, well, thank you.

I tried to make tea with free-range leaves or whatever it was and and kind of the odds. And it even says on it, still water. Well, thank you. And I tried to make tea with like free range leaves or whatever it was and it tasted like ass. And I'm like, I'm just gonna order a latte from the link server. You are such not a British person, but I'm glad you're there. You know, the theme of my school, my Saul's preschool,

they have a party every year, which I try not to go to, but then Amanda demands it, which is James Bond. Oh, that must be fun. Okay. I'm going as Holly Goodhead. True story, true, that was a true Bond girl, Holly Goodhead. It was the woman who was in, I forget her name, she was in broadcast news, she played the anchor

that threatened Holly Hunter, so they sent her to Alaska. I forgot her name. Tall drink of lemonade. Yeah, I love them James Bond movies, but I'd rather be home. Still best Bond girl? Bandy Newton, most beautiful woman in the world. Bandy. Yeah.

No, if she's ever on your pod. I will let you know. If she's in London. I shall let you know about her if there's ever that. You can get her on your pods. Anyway, everybody loves the pods, Scott. Don't you know that? Oh my God. How many people have called you in

the last two weeks saying, hey, what's going on? I think we'd have a really interesting discussion loves the pod, Scott. You know that. Oh my God. How many people have called you in the last two weeks saying, hey, what's going on? I think we'd have a really interesting discussion on the pod. I'm like, yeah, boss, get in line. Anyway, I did a really good one in New York with the CEO of Tubi, which is this quiet streaming service that's killing it. Anjali Sood, and she's a young woman, and is killing it at this thing quietly as others are.

Anyway, it's a really cool, she used to be CEO of Vimeo and she's like 12. There's a bunch of those guys, Pluto, what's the other one? One of them closed, Freebie closed, Amazon closed Freebie. Anyway, 81 million subscribers and people using it, not subscribers because it's free, but 81 million is huge. It's bigger than almost all of them except for Disney, Netflix, and I think Amazon. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Sam Altman trying to make nice with Elon, Bitcoin surging. Oh, now we have to be nice to Cathie Wood, but we're not going to anyway.

Surging on the news of Trump's SEC pick. So we have to dive right in. Andrew Ross Sorkin, our favorite Canadian, had quite an action-packed event yesterday in New York, with everybody was there. It was kind of crazy. He's sort of become the code conference. Interesting. I was just going to say he's filled a vacuum left by... Charis Richard. You know, what is it a very small man can cast a long shadow? Oh, don't tell me that.

You have cast a very long shadow and you have left the stage. Oh my God, Bitcoin's at $108,000. Jesus Christ. I know, we'll get to it, we'll get to it. Raise your hand if you don't own a single fucking coin. Anyways, I generally believe that you left a void in the market and Andrew, who does a great job on his own, but that, I would argue the Milken Conference have kind of become, well actually there's still Sun Valley,

but I think the Milken Conference and Andrew Ross Horkin's thing. Yeah. So I spoke at one of those breakout panels that Andrew has, it was kind of like they pretend they've asked you to speak on the main stage and you show up and you're in a room with eight other people. Yeah. Then I was asked to speak,

because I know you wanted to bring it back to me. I do, always. I was asked to speak at the Milken Conference wanted to bring it back to me. I do, always. I was asked to speak at the Milken conference, and I sent them my speaker sheet with my fees, and I'm like, boss, we don't pay anybody to speak. And I wrote back and I said, okay, they want to put me on a panel on, I don't know, media and tech, and I'm like,

I'm sorry, I only do keynotes. And they wrote back, I guess it's not going to work. We don't have keynotes, just panels. So I am literally the Karen of the Milken Institute. You are. I did the same thing. Scott, I did the same thing. And I screwed up. I'd like to go. It's supposed to be amazing. Anyways, whoever curates the Milken thing. Maybe we could offer ourselves up as a thing.

No, they don't want entertainment. They want real brain power. So don't buy you. That's not true. Brain power. What are you talking about? We're so brainy. We're brainy? Anyway, just so you know, Andrew Ross Ergun is not a Canadian. Let me get back to Andy. He's a Canadian spy.

Do I have to remind everyone again? Several different things were interesting. Jeff Bezos says he's optimistic about a president like Donald Trump. Second term at the summit, he was doing more sucker-up-ery. Let's listen. I'm actually very optimistic this time around that he seems to have a lot of energy around reducing regulation. And my point of view, if I can help him do that, I'm going to help him.

Yeah. He's in full suck-up mode. He really wants those government contracts. And he also made the most ridiculous statement. Let me just read this to you because I thought it was just kind of silly. He finally acknowledged he was the one that did the changes of the Kamala Harris endorsement, when the company had said it was a group effort, but he was like, no, it was me, essentially. Which we all knew, which we didn't need to be told by him. But one of the interesting things,

as he said, it creates a perception of bias if you do them. And then, of course, he was creating a perception of bias by being so effusive about Trump. He's really more than anybody else and not really acknowledged, he should not own that paper in so many ways. He said he's going to fix it and save it the second time, but people who were there thought he was quite arrogant actually. I talked about a dozen people and trying to be adorable and not succeeding. He said he would try to talk Trump out of the idea that the press was the enemy and he thinks Trump is, as I said, calmer. I don't know.

I just think he wants space contracts. That's really pretty much what I took away from that one. Thoughts? There's a couple of things. When I agree with you, if you're going to take over a national treasure like the Washington Post, which plays an outsized role relative to its actual business. In the policing and the truth to power,

neither fear nor favor, it really does play an important role. I do think that Bezos saw that and bought it for a song, 250 million you said? Yeah. Bought it for a song and generally was thought of it as, I don't know, a goodwill gesture towards the community. At least that's how he positioned and framed it.

He did. A lot of billionaires buy media companies or control them because they're thinking, if anyone comes after me, I can defend it with this heat shield called my own media network, or I can evangelize my own political views. Media is just so goddamn powerful. Eventually, almost every billionaire

either has an interest in or decides to control a media company recognizing that's the ultimate prophylactic and the ultimate offensive weapon. So when he gets involved, when he makes editorial decisions, choosing to not endorse anyone was an endorsement of Trump. Right, of course.

At the last minute too, at the last minute. Yeah, it was an endorsement of Trump. Right, of course. At the last minute too. At the last minute. Yeah, it was an endorsement of Trump. And that is terrible for the culture. It was a really low, what I'll call management EQ move. You're creating dissent across a group of talented people where there's already strain because the business is strained. So you're adding chaos where there doesn't need to be.

So you're right, he's the wrong owner. He should put it in a trust such that he can say, guys, I have no influence, Mr. President, I have no influence over this thing. I know that article they wrote about you saying that you've been, that you're a felon, that you've been found guilty by jury of your peers of rape, that you actually coordinated

and inspired an insurrection, you know? True or not, I can't help it. They're gonna report the way they're gonna report. When he weighs in, that means he's the wrong owner because he has a conflict. And that is the right thing for him to do as a fiduciary for Amazon shareholders is to unnaturally kiss Donald Trump's ass because it works. Yeah, absolutely. He's very good at it.

Let me just say, I was comparing all the different statements by all the CEOs. Jeff has gone over and above all the others. I never mentioned The Washington Post, and he's the only one with the newspaper. I get it when Cook does it. I get it when Nadella does it. I get it when all of them do it. And I had an interview with Mark Benioff yesterday,

and we had a great discussion about this, but he was forthright about it. And Bezos is sort of playing games, that's my feeling. Mark was like, this is why I'm doing it, this is why it's good, this is why it's bad. I get it that I own time, so I got to be very careful and make sure I stress that time will do what it would.

It was a whole different experience with Mark Betty offers. I think Mark wants to sell time now. He wants out. He says he doesn't. It was interesting. On the record, he said people have approached him. A lot of people want to own Time Magazine. I know. Yeah, I get it. So I don't know. I couldn't tell.

I think if he got a great offer, he'd sell it, but he was pretty much, I'm not selling it right now, essentially. Yeah. He's not trying to sell it. He's incoming. That's someone selling, trying to get a decent number and get out of the dodge. He could have said it's not for sale. The guy doesn't need to sell it.

So even being open to it means anybody, I want to sell it. Billionaires buying media companies is like when you buy a boat. It's a ton of fun for a while and then you just- Yeah, until it's not. Until it's not, yeah. One of the, I think one of the better owners is Lorraine Powell Jobs. She apparently leaves her hands off over at the Atlantic. And they've been doing some very tough reporting.

And she never says anything public, even though she supported Kamala Harris. She never was public in any way. She's got an extra responsibility. One thing Bezos said, what presidential endorsements actually do is create a perception of bias, a perception of non-independence. This is exactly what happened by his clodest decision at the wrong time and then his effusive praise. That's exactly, like every accusation, as I say, is a confession with these people.

Anyway, we'll see, Jeff. Good luck. But I have to tell you, most people there thought you seemed like an arrogant twit. Sam also had some interesting things to say at the summit, Sam Altman. He noted that there have been misalignments and challenges in the OpenAI-Microsoft relationship. No shit. But insisted the two companies were not disentangling. He played down AI threats, said artificial general intelligence will arrive soon,

and discussed OpenAI's transition to a for-profit model. He was asked obviously about Elon Musk's relationship with Trump because Elon's back to suing him again as we discussed last week, and possible misuse of power. Let's listen. I believe that pretty strongly, I may turn out to be wrong, but I believe pretty strongly that Elon will do the right thing and that Americans will be profoundly un-American to use political power to the degree that Elon has it,

to hurt your competitors and advantage your own businesses. I don't think people would tolerate that. I don't think Elon would do it. It would go, again, lots of things not to like about him, but it would go so deeply against the values I believe he holds very dear to himself that I'm not that worried about it. He's wrong on both counts. I agree.

Musk would do it and unfortunately America has shown an ability to tolerate it recently. I agree. So yeah, don't hold your breath, boss. If you're waiting for the better angels of muster show up, don't hold your breath in terms of putting you out of business, supporting that ridiculous kneecap every AI legislation in California that Governor Newsom correctly vetoed. I mean, of course, he would do everything within his power to kneecap OpenAI to hope that XAI catches up such that he can control every technology. And unfortunately, I no longer have the confidence I once did that this couldn't happen.

No, it happened actually, Vivek Ramaswamy. By the way, they're here in Washington. They go up and talk about Doge on the Hill today. They're here, so I'm staying at home. But they had talked about it quite openly. Vivek Ramaswamy said maybe they should look at the last-minute Rivian loan, which is a competitor to Tesla and a lot of the other things. It was so stupid, not the Rivian loan,

because Tesla got a $450 million loan that saved him. And Altson is so partisan, it undermines their credibility. Exactly. Even if he thinks that, why would he say that? Because a jazz hands never met a camera, he didn't want to fuck, essentially. And so I think Sam is very naive here

because Elon sued him, then unsued him, they had a discussion, they hugged in Montana, as I said, and then he sued him right back. Elon uses litigation, political power, and any means he can for advantage. It is, Sam, I think, is being shockingly naive here, but you know. Well, he's hoping that people, so Sam is a very bright guy.

And Sam's, Sam's complexion or posture, I think is very smart and quite frankly, much more mature than many of the tech executives that are 10, 20 years a senior. And that is, he never makes personal attacks. Well, he does little under, he does sometimes. They're very clever. You can pick them up.

But they're passive, passive aggressive. Yeah, yeah. And there's, again, there's a lot of things not to like about him. Like he gets that in. But OpenAI was basically started and Musk wanted out. They couldn't come to an agreement. He wanted more and they wouldn't let him have more. Right. Musk wanted to control it.

And Altman said no. And Musk said, I'm taking my ball and going home. Signed airtight legal documents saying he was out and you no longer had ownership or control over the company. Now that it's the leader in AI, he's decided that I'm angry and I'm going to burn the village to say that. I have my own company I want to advantage which is.

Yeah, that I want to kneecap the leader here. If the shoe were on the other foot, I mean, Musk would be on Twitter every day accusing Altman of pedophilia and saying that this company is anti-American, it's been weaponized by Putin. I mean, he would be turning the algorithms of anything he could on this guy. I'm excited to find out from Sam why he thinks that.

I'm going to try to see him soon because I think he's wrong. I think he's hoping this is the way it's going to go. I don't think he thinks that. I think he's trying to come off as the good guy. Yeah, maybe so. And hope that politicians and people see open AI as the innovator and the leader and put some shark repellent around him, saying, no, this is bullshit. We'll see.

I think he kind of had to say that. And he doesn't want to is bullshit. We'll see. I think he had to say that. He doesn't want to seem like a victim, Elon, I think that's smart in that regard. Let's turn to something really, I was very shook up by, I happened to be in New York yesterday and was leaving, was right actually nearby when this happened. Nothing to do with me, but the shocking murder of

UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Midtown Manhattan on Wednesday has prompted. the killing in and of itself was targeted. They don't know by whom, but it's prompted a wave of social media reactions, including incredibly tasteless jokes. Users took jabs at United Health Care, health insurance in general. Thompson's company is the largest private health insurer in the US and many in the industry. It's been targeted with lawsuits and criticism over allegedly denying claims to maximize profits. Thompson's wife said her husband is getting threats that seem to be tied to lack of coverage. But the behavior of people online was just appalling.

Clara Jeffrey from Mother Jones, who I think is quite a good journalist, we can all hate insurance companies without cheering the murder of someone or worse, trying to monetize content about that murder, really gross day on the internet today. And I agreed, I said, you're ghouls to do this. And I have to tell you, I got a spate of, and a reporter who's covering this said, Mike Hixenbaugh said, you're about to be sworn by bad faith replies from people who want to believe that not celebrating murder makes you a bootlicking apologist for our broken healthcare system. And I have to tell you, he was 100% right.

I got all these terrible, I had to turn off the comments on Blue Sky, which I never have had to do, but they were all really unpleasant. Like, it's okay to murder this guy because he murders people and gun them down in cold blood in the street of New York. It was shocking. I don't know how you felt. And again, I get it. People are mad at the healthcare industry, but to celebrate this guy's death is a heinous,

and the people who did it are really ghouls as far as I'm concerned. I think it's all reverse engineers to the same place as most of our problems, and that is massive income inequality. Yeah. And the people, let me be clear right up front, this is murder, and I hope they find this person,

pursue him to the four corners of the earth and bring him to justice. And my heart really does go out to the family. The people who empathize with this, or can not empathize with it, can understand why it happened, are the 41% of US adults that currently have some form of debt caused by their own

or a family member's medical or dental bills.S. adults that currently have some form of debt caused by their own or a family member's medical or dental bills. Absolutely. Healthcare expenditures in the U.S. are $12,500 per person, about $4,000 more than any other high income nation with worse outcomes. The number one cause of bankruptcy is medical debt. So what you have is a massive regulatory capture. You have a healthcare system. You and I get the best

healthcare in the world because we're wealthy. But that top 10%, the bottom 90 has been optimized for regulatory capture and shareholder value across the medical industrial complex. And the people who've done the worst are the bottom 90 and also quite frankly, frontline medical workers. But when you find out your wife has lung cancer, that's the bad news.

The worst news is it probably means there's a decent chance your family might go bankrupt. There is so much despair. One of the charts circulated, and again, this in no way justifies murder. But one of the charts being circulated shows that the greatest number of claim denials is from, you guessed it, UnitedHealthcare.

And if you look at the bullets, when I first heard we do an editorial call to talk about what issues we're gonna talk about at Prof. G, and I said, let's not talk about this, because we don't know, as far as we know, this is just an insane person. We just don't know what happened here. Let's not connect it to a broader theme. The thing that made me change my mind and feel like you can connect it to societal issues is the following. The casings on the

bullets had inscribed in them, deny and delay. This was clearly, that's not to say this person isn't mentally ill, but this was clearly rooted or inspired by some weird notion of restoration of societal injustice. You know, I completely get it. I just, there's two different things going here. Anger over health care and you can either be not positive, you can take positive steps like Mark Cuban is doing with Cost Plus or trying to bring down health care costs or attacking these companies in steps like Mark Cuban is doing with Cost Plus or trying to bring down health care costs or attacking these companies in Legislatively and with lawsuits and everything else and I understand this is not the solution. I mean this is not the solution I and by the way, these aren't the people who are denied health care

But these weren't those people are not on the Twitter and they don't get to go on here and and do this And I just think it brings down there's no solutions in doing this and they don't get to go on here and do this. And I just think it brings down, there's no solutions in doing this. And I don't think it makes change. If it made change, I'd be like, ah, like the people in Korea, they went, they scaled the fence, and things happened, right? I get all that stuff. This is just, it's a really ugly part of humanity. And you're right, we have to solve, we absolutely have to solve this healthcare problem

that is, that's continuing because this is where it goes. This is exactly where it goes to a murder on the street of New York. And in any case, it's a sixth symptom of our society because we don't keep people healthy and we treat them only with shareholder value. You're 100% right. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Trump's SEC and antitrust picks and take a listen to a mail question about our own dream cabinet choices.

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Support for Pivot comes from Mint Mobile. Friends don't let friends pay too much for their wireless plans. And I think of everyone listening right now as a friend. Close friends? I wouldn't go that far. But we're more than acquaintances, which is why I'm going to cut right to the chase. Mint Mobile is offering a deal on cell coverage that is such a no-brainer, you may want to pause the show and go check it out right now. Here are the details. Right now, when you purchase a new 3-month phone plan with Mint Mobile,

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Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See MintMobile for detail. Scott, we're back with more headlines. In international news, the French government collapsed on Wednesday after parliament voted out to oust Prime Minister Michel Barnier and his cabinet. The vote was called after Barnier pushed an unpopular budget proposal without parliamentary approval. Marine Le Pen of France's far right led the opposition against the budget. President Macron will have to employ a new prime minister. And also at the same time, South Korea's president

is facing impeachment vote after declaring martial law that turned rather quickly and after revoking the motion due to political pressure and a lot of people coming down there and climbing the fences. It was really interesting how quickly South Korea turned that around, the people of South Korea. But it's really, there's so much chaos happening across the world. Any thoughts? I think it's linked to the vile messages you're getting. And I know this sounds paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if I were the head of the GRU or the CCP or the Security Services in the Islamic regime, I would think, okay, we can't defeat them economically, we can't defeat them militarily.

Let's leverage their catbacks, their hunger for shareholder value over everything, their inability to regulate these platforms, and let's use AI to create millions of bots that get people fighting with one another. And when we see a powerful yet controversial figure who's a journalist who weighs in with an issue, let's just automatically try and start fights and get people hating each other and get people depressed and upset.

That's what I would do if I were the head of the GRU. Now to France, now to France. Well, okay, so what you have across the world is every incumbent party is being kicked out because everybody hates every, no one is satisfied, everybody is, and it goes back to the same thing. Get every democracy arguing and believing that their country is doing really poorly.

If you just read the media, if you just went on social media, you would think that America is just a fucking mess right now. No, it's not. I mean, we have issues, no doubt about it. But show me almost any special interest group, maybe the exception of pregnant women and trans people. I would argue gay people, the non-whites, the poor, almost everybody is doing markedly better than they were 10, 20, 40, 50 years ago.

But you would believe that there needs to, every spark here turns into a five car alarm, because they are smarter than us. And our superpowers are optimism, but the externality of the Achilles heel of that is that we're easier to fool than convince we've been fooled. Kara, I think in 20 years, we're going to look back and see the information war of Goebbels, of Nazi Germany, of whether GRU, and I think they're going to look at America and how these platforms were weaponized to get us

hating each other such that we no longer talk to our neighbors, we no longer went on dates, we hated every incumbent person in power thinking that they were the problem. And almost every Western nation has seen turnover in their leadership. Does that mean they're all bad or is something else going on? And it's the same thing here. I was heartened by South Korea, how quickly they turned that around. Yeah, but he's out. He's out. He's out. he's out. He's out.

He's out. That's right. He's out. But he really made a rather... Well, that was stupid. That was like one of the most biggest self-inflicted... Declaring martial law in a democracy? But I just hope Trump isn't taking notes. I don't think he is. I think he's taking notes like what happened in South Korea could happen to him, right? He doesn't have... Good point. By the way, there was another Democrat

that won a seat in California, 200 votes. It was just 200 votes. It was crazy. Democrat. Democrat, won in California, and it flipped the seat. So now Congress is so close, it's crazy. And because Trump has appointed several Congress people, they have almost one or two scooch rooms.

So if any single congressman can overturn anything in the Republican side. So it's really, we have to get along. We literally, no one's going to get anywhere anything done if we don't get along in some fashion or find compromise. So I would agree with you. It's really-

National service, final five voting, voting rank choice voting all of us have a personal Obligation to take the heat down. I mean, there's just a lot and also wake up our platforms our media Americans two-thirds of Americans get their news from social media. It has been weaponized This is no different than if the Kremlin had controlled CBS, ABC, and NBC in the 60s, and yet we've decided to let it happen. Yep. I agree.

I agree. So in any case, no one's coming between us, Scott, just so you know. I'm going to make sure. I'm going to make sure. No, we have true dysfunction. It's not the GRU or the CCG coming between us. Yeah, it's true, but no one's going to do it, just us. We're going to make ourselves hate each other.

By the way, I am absolutely exhausted from my French self-defense class. I have never run so far in my life. Little World War II surrender humor there. Anyway. Don't insult them. I'm not going to let you back in. Pete Hegs had this campaign to keep his spot as Pickford Defense Secretary when Trump reported he considers replacing with Ron DeSantis who seems very qualified in comparison.

Isn't that funny? I know and let me just add some more. Over at the SEC Trump has nominated Paul Adkins as chairman. I think people feel pretty good about that. Adkins was an SEC commissioner under President George Bush and his favorite of crypto community. The price of Bitcoin hit $100,000 for the first time Wednesday. And lastly, the Justice Department, Trump had nominated Gail Slater as the head of the Antitrust Division.

Slater was a policy advisor for Vice President like JD Vance and served as a tech policy advisor at the National Economic Council during Trump's first term. I'm not hearing bad things about her. I think she's quite anti-tech actually, and although she's worked for some tech companies, I think they all have. So look, these other ones seem fine and there's several fines. And then you have, they throw out Peter Navarro,

you know, crazy, fine, fine, fine, crazy, fine, fine. Pete Hicks says, wow, what a media story. He's out. This has just gotten too far. When his mom goes on Fox to say she didn't mean it and he had a nonprofit that he was bilking for his own personal expenses. When he showed up, he was drunk.

Two of them. Hitting on people. I mean, he's toast. There are already five Republican senators that have said they're concerned, which means basically don't make me vote no, resign. I bet he's out in the next. I think Lindsey Graham has flip-flopped again.

He was negative and now he's, but you know. Yeah, because Trump called him and said, I'll tell you when to be negative. He's out in the next 24, 40 hours. The good news is, with respect to the SEC pick, I do think something rational comes over, washes over Trump when it comes to these picks. And then you can't say that about Peter Navarro.

Peter Navarro has struck me as a total fucking nut. But anyways, the SEC, I think, is an important position. This guy seems very credible to me. Also, you know, Governor DeSantis, I'm a resident of Florida. I don't like his policies. Oh, he can run things. He's a competent individual. And also the people I know who work with Governor DeSantis,

as I've always said, he's very data-driven. He was a lawyer for the Navy. He's qualified. No, he handled the hurricane. I'm not a favorite. The putting fingers is not my favorite. But he handled the hurricane fine. And I mean, the comparison to this guy,

it's like the lowest of bars this guy. Who's qualified? He's qualified. He's qualified. What do you think of Senator Ernst? I don't know much about her. I think she's great. I think she's really interesting.

I don't agree with her on tons of stuff but I think she's trying very hard because she doesn't want to get primary necessarily and at the same time I don't think anyone blames her for being like Pete Hicks get the fuck out of my office and don't grab my boobs, right? You know, that kind of thing. She served, and of course, she had issues with sexual harassment in the military, served in combat, really, you know, deserves to be heard on this one. And whatever she wants is what should happen. I know her name was bandied about for that job, but I think DeSantis isantis is the one. He terms out and then he's got, there's not really a

lot, he could run for office to try to take over for Trump from the Defense Department. I don't know. My favorite, I have to say it has unleashed an incredible series of, also Pete has said, letting your mommy after after insulting and sexually harassing women, letting your mommy fix your problem is really something else. This is my favorite one. I'll stop drinking if you let me run the Pentagon is maybe the most alcoholic thing anyone has ever said. That's what he told people to stop drinking. I mean get some help.

Anyone in recovery, anyone who knows anything about addiction says okay first you got to fix the underlying problem And saying you're gonna quit if, I mean, you haven't even acknowledged you have a problem. You know, if he'd said, I've struggled and I've quit, and with the help of God and my wife, you know, I'm gonna, but saying, give me this, I'll stop drinking. I mean, you know, it was the wrong day for me to give up meth.

I mean, what? What? What? What? Wow. That was, I can't believe some of the senators like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Oh, sure. Ah, well then. Right.

Well then, okay. This actually, here's my winner. No, that's not my winner. Has anyone checked to see whether Hegseth is actually Kavanaugh's drinking buddy, Squee? I love how they mixed the cap, because he said on Megyn Kelly, Pete, whatever, the heck's a bad Pete,

said he was cabinad. By the way, Megyn Kelly did a terrible job with that interview. Oh, really? You're not an alcoholic. You seem like one. I don't have a drinking problem. Why did you fall? At Fox News, he apparently had to be carried out of a work event. Carried out. How drunk do you have to be?

Have you been carried out of anything? No. I think one of the downsides of me drinking a lot is, I'm a better version of me a little fucked up. I'm friendly, I'm nice, I'm smart. I'm just a better version of me. People, I remember in college and the fraternity, occasionally, not often, but occasionally guys would get drunk and they'd get violent or mean.

And immediately, you're like a member of the self, stay away from this person. I think how people behave when inebriated and how they treat their pets or looking glasses into their souls. And you can really tell a lot by a person by the way they act after a few drinks. And- Because they often are a better version of themselves. One of the expressions that was used, I think, is the drunk,

does the drunk agree with the sober, right? Is it varied if you change it? It's always some women behave like this, but it's always the man, the bad guy that suddenly comes out. Interestingly- Some women get very mean on alcohol. Yeah, they do. I know they do.

Just try gin. There's a word for a gin. I get it. Tequila makes your clothes fall off. I get that. That's a great song, by the way. One of the things that Louis told me, we were talking about a song in New York this week, and he didn't know a lot about it, but he was sort of aware of it. And I said, well, this guy probably blames drinking on his sexual harassment that happens in the wake of that.

And he said, I've been blackout drunk and I've never been doing that. He was so sensible. He's like, you don't have to behave like that just because you're drinking or blame drinking for your bad behavior. It is you at your heart. I think that's correct. Anyway, P, good knowing you. He'd be shocked if he held on.

Both of us would be shocked. Friday is when you take the trash out and that's when he's going. That's tomorrow. When you say he takes the trash out, are you saying because- That's an expression in Washington. But what I, oh, I see I thought there was a double meaning there

and that is they released bad news on Fridays because it doesn't get as much coverage. That too. Yeah, that's what they're gonna do. I bet it happens to miles. And they'll probably combine it with something else. They'll probably combine it with something else. Anyway, very quickly,

Elon Musk in the beginning his Tesla page package reinstated after the Delaware judge, her previous, she reaffirmed her previous ruling in her 103 page opinion. I love this judge in Delaware. Judge Kathleen McCormick says Tesla's lawyers had no grounds to reverse her January ruling. Based on evidence they created after trial, the pay package is initially worth more than $50 billion. It's now worth $100 billion, thanks to Tesla's share price soaring in recent weeks. Tesla said it will appeal the decision

and some experts suggest they might try to reconstitute the package and get approval in Texas, of course, Elon's favorite, judge shopping. After the ruling, Elon of course attacked, note to Sam Altman, attacked Judge McCormick calling her a radical far-left activist cosplaying as a judge. Oh, she is not. She is not. But I'm just saying this, get ready Sam for Elon's attacks on you, which he's already been doing. So any thoughts? Yeah.

I think she got it wrong and I think she's eventually going to get its money. Oh, he is going to get his money. I think so too. The word the judge kept using was fair. And if you want to talk about CEO compensation, come over and we'll smoke cigarettes and eat ice cream and talk about fair. I think the board got it wrong, but the way corporate governance works in a corporation

is that the shareholders nominate and elect directors and the directors get to decide CEO compensation. And this is outrageous. I think that no person should be worth a third of a trillion dollars. I think power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. But if you have a capitalist society,

the way it works is the board gets to decide compensation. They decided it and the shareholders effectively approved it. And so when judges start saying what type of compensation is fair or not fair, I believe it's government overreach. So as ridiculous as this is, I think the board got it wrong. The way I think you handle this is through a more progressive tax policy. I think

anyone making over a billion dollars should pay an alternative minimum tax of 80 percent. But the moment judges start talking about what is fair or not fair in compensation, I just think it's government overreach. I think she got this wrong. Yeah. Well, she's reacting to a shareholder lawsuit too at the same time, right? So- Of a minority of shareholders. Yeah, yeah. The majority of shareholders have approved this pay package. Yeah, that's true. He'll probably get it. He'll get it.

If you own a building and you pay the maintenance people or the person running the building an outrageous amount of money, that's what you get to do if you own the building. And the majority of the owners of this company have decided he's going to get a house. I get it. I get it. And also, I hate defending Elon Musk, but when they awarded the options package, it was worth single-digit billions. So, and the analogy I would use is that if they can't,

if Tim Cook- I think it was always 40 billion. I think it was always 40 billion, but go ahead, go ahead. Anyways, if Tim Cook went to his biggest shareholders and said, we're worth three trillion, I think I can make this company worth 20 trillion. But in order to do that, and I'm the singular person that can do this,

I want a trillion dollars. I think at that moment, a majority of shareholders might go, a trillion dollars is ridiculous, but in order to do that, and I'm the singular person who can do this, I want a trillion dollars. I think at that moment, a majority of shareholders might go, a trillion dollars is ridiculous, but sure, if you can make this thing where 20 will give you a trillion. And that's kind of what he did here. So again, I think fairness and the support of the greatest innovation in history, the American middle class, is through a progressive tax structure. But a key component of capitalism is the owners of an asset get to decide what to do with it, including the compensation. Yeah, that's what I said.

Someone was complaining about Patrick Soon-Shang over at the LA Times, like he owns it. I don't know what to tell you. He can put Scott Jennings, that smart meat commentator, on his thing if he wants. He can do it if he wants. Same thing with Jeff Bezos, honestly. It's still untoward. And this board, let's just reiterate, this board is such a fall over for Elon Board. They're particularly in the tank

because they also make a lot of money from him. So. They've made tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars for just nodding their head and saying he's great. Not a good board, not a great board. In the way I think of Boards, which should be a little less slavish. Anyway, he's made him a lot of money, so there you have it.

Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. The question comes from David. Let's listen. I've listened to the last few podcasts in which both of you discussed the various nominees Trump has put forward for cabinet and other important administration positions. My question for each of you has two parts. Which positions do each of you consider the most important positions and why? And second, if you were president, who would you nominate for the most important positions in your administration and why? Thanks. My name is David.

Oh, that's interesting. That's a great question. I'll start. I think the Department Secretary of Defense is critically important. The Attorney General is critically important. And obviously, the Treasury Secretary. So if I was President Trump or if I'm me, if I'm me, I would have picked different. I probably would have picked Jamie Diamond for the treasury job, for the head of the Defense Department. That's, that would be interesting. I don't, I'd have to think maybe, oh god, I wouldn't say Pete Buttigieg, but someone who's, someone who served and who, who understands how to run big systems. There's lots of people like that. Certainly not Pete Hegseth by any means.

I could run it better than him. And then the third attorney general, someone not quite as partisan and who didn't deny the election like Pam Bondi. I do think she's actually has qualifications. There's no question she ran a big important states, HSAG, she knows her way around a courtroom as they say. But I think those are the most important.

But one of the ones, as we were just talking about this UnitedHealthcare thing, is the Health and Human Services Director. I would make that Mark Cuban or someone like that. You need to facilitate change in how healthcare goes in this country very drastically, and how we eat and the chemicals that are in our system. I completely agree with that. But this friggin' nutjob, RFK Jr., who now looks good next to these other people, is a disaster, especially around vaccines and everything else. So someone who respects science, I would say Mark Cuban for that

job. Your turn, Scott. Scott McPherson I would go, I like the whole cable news as a cabinet strategy. I'd have Dana Bash, I'd have, except I'd go another cable network. I think the people at CNN are so impressive. I think it should be President Dana Bash. Her vice president is Anderson Cooper. We laugh, but these people will be a hell of a lot more competent than some of the people he's proposing now.

Peter Hegseth and Peter Navarro, give me a fucking break or Cash Patel. Michael Smirkonish, I'd like to be Secretary of Commerce. I'd like to see, I would, there's so many outstanding, I'd love to see Michael Bennett as Secretary of Education. I think Vivek Murthy as Head of Health and Human Services. I think he is the most consequential surgeon general in history bringing up loneliness

and the stress on parents. There's a ton of fantastic, oh, I would put together the hottest and most competent cabinet in history. And I give AOC a job just because she's ridiculously fucking hot. Mm-hmm, good, also competent. And it's important to have good looking people. Okay.

But Ro Khanna would have a spot in there. I think Amy Klobuchar, I put it the head of the FTC or the DOJ, is she a lawyer? DOJ, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, she wrote that big giant antitrust book, remember? She's a good lawyer. She's a lawyer. Oh, she'd be a good AG.

Oh, yeah. You're right. She's a fucking gangster. She's not afraid of anybody. Yeah, I would have a ton of... I could... Oh, my God. Give me the chessboard. I will put the pieces in the right place. What would we be?

What would be our job if you had to pick one? We do exactly what we're doing right now because our lives are really nice. I understand. But if you had to take a cab, they said, here, Scott, you have to take one cab job, you don't have a choice. Oh, easy. I'd want to be secretary of education. Oh, interesting. Easy. What would you guess I would want to be?

Head of the CIA. That's right. That's right, my friend. That's correct. I'd spy on you. You do spy on me. You fucking text me at three in the CIA. That's right. That's right, my friend. That's correct. I'd spy on you. You do spy on me. You fucking text me at three in the morning. You know what I'm doing at all moments. I do know what you're doing at all moments. I've got to keep track of you because you're up to things. Last night, I was texting a variety of people,

I'm not going to say who, but well-known people. I was thinking, what is Scott up to? I feel like Scott's up to something right now. I don't know why, but I thought, is he up to something? I was eating alone in the Cotswolds after taking an edible and listening to Tom Petty, and then taking my dogs for a long walk at night. Okay. Well, I didn't know that. But at first second, I was like, what is he up to?

What little machinations is he up to? By the way, your other girlfriend, your side piece, Jessica Tarloff, texted me. The hotter, younger woman? The Jessica, Jessica Tarloff, texted me and she's going to- The hotter younger? The hotter younger version of me. She was going to come to this dinner in New York when she couldn't. But she's going to take my mom to see the five and I have to go. That'll be great. That'll be great.

Would you come with me? No way. 100 percent no. No. I'd also give, speaking of Fox, I'd give Neil Cavuto a position. I like him. 100% no. No. Oh, I'd also give, speaking of Fox, I'd give Neil Cavuto a position. I like him. Yeah, okay. I'd give Cavuto a position. God, this would be fun.

But you left out Stephanie Ruhl. I can't believe it. She's gonna kill us. What would you give her? Oh, she'd be ambassador to our most important, like I'd make her ambassador to, I just like, I'd want her to be ambassador to France because she would throw amazing parties

at the residence in Paris. No, we could go. Yeah, no, she should be ambassador. She could be like Carrie Russell on The Diplomat. And she's got great style. I mean, she's ambassador to France, that's an easy one. Ambassador to France, okay, all right. There we got it, thank you David.

We've made- I need you to be president so we can do this. Oh my God, it would be so good. I'll be the puppet master. I'll tell you exactly what to say, what to do, and you can just be- So you're like Steve Bannon. Yeah.

I get that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. This will be fun. We'll be good at this. Seriously, I can't believe I'm more qualified to be the Secretary of Defense than Pete Hegseth, but it's true. And so are you.

All right, for the rest of you listeners, it's time for this week's Threads poll. Do you agree with Bezos and Altman? Will Trump and Elon not be as bad as we think? Okay. Visit us on threads at Pivot Podcast Official to vote. I'm kind of, I gotta admit it. I'm coming out of the closet as someone who's kind of excited about Doge. I don't like those guys, but I'm curious to see what they come up with. Do you know what? It would be great except- Except them?

No, they never met a camera. They didn't want to fuck. And it's like they do, they drop stupid things like the Rivian things. This is a serious topic of reforming government, but they're doing it in the typical way of, look at the $600 toilet. Like that's not, it's fine to do those things, but creating outrage is let's make it more efficient. Again, I had a great discussion with Mark Benioff about this, the efficiency using AI, talking about it, honestly, getting along.

If we did that, I would embrace it because government waste and fraud and everything else, of course. But government is not, you know who wrote a great piece was Adam Lashinsky in the Washington Post. I would turn your attention to that piece because he really did lay it out. He's like, sometimes, you know, to help the whole republic is not to be efficient or some things don't work and to just needlessly attack, Elon's needlessly attacking individual government employees because he thinks it's funny.

That's, that's unforgivable naming people. That's just dumb. He's, he's, it's all about hate. It's all about government sucks. I think if you're serious, you too, stop being such jazz hands. Look at me. Bullshit. Like let's get, and I get there's part of that you too, stop being such jazz hands, look at me, bullshit. And I get there's part of that is important, but it's all through the negative lens instead of, again, I point to someone like Mark Cuban, the positive lens, what can we do to make

this better and not demonize everybody? And a lot of government employees are great employees and they do not deserve this kind of bullshit, even if we should have a more efficient government. I would agree. I would be on their team, except they're such assholes, I don't want to be on their team. I'm going to hold my judgment for the recommendations. There's just some interesting, it's catalyzing an interesting dialogue. We have five air forces in the military.

Do we need five air forces? I mean, there's just some interesting conversations here. I wish they would go after the military. When they started to do that, everyone was like, yeah, oh, and I was pleased with that, and so was Bernie Sanders. Anyway, and I love the military, I think it's important, but everything could be made more efficient.

It's just how you do it and how you treat people when you're doing it. It's like laying people off. Elon laid people off with cruelty, needless cruelty, and he didn't have to. You can lay people off. So anyway, maybe you could get nicer boys, but doubtful considering who you are.

If you've got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way, go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. A big thanks to everyone who had pivot on their Spotify rap this year. Be sure to tag us on social media when you share your list. Scott, what was your, did you look at your rap? What was it?

My rap? I think this is a cool thing and they did an AI movie on Spotify. You know, all the music you listen to. Oh yeah, I keep getting forwarded people who say that we're in one of their top pods. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what, did you look at yours or not?

I haven't yet, no. Can you guess who my top artist was? Taylor Swift? Yes, and she was everybody's top artist. Oh, my wrapped. I just pulled it up. Do you want to hear mine? Okay, hold on.

Okay, what is it? Yeah, go ahead, tell us. All right, top artists. Number one, Electric Light Orchestra. Number two, Calvin Harris. Number three, Food with Mac. What? Number four, Fine Young Cannibals.

Number five, Supertramp, your top song. Oh, you're living in the 80s and 90s, Scott. Wouldn't you? Have you seen pictures of me in the 80s? Seriously, that shit worked. You've been putting the 80s and 90s, Scott. Wouldn't you? Have you seen pictures of me in the 80s? Seriously, that shit worked. You've been putting out social media things, very lovely songs by the way, I like them a lot.

That's how I relax, is I pretend I'm just out, I'm in my junior year at UCLA. Right. And anyways, my top songs were the safety dance, Men Without Hats, that's a great one. Enola Gay, Enola Gay, but I think that's Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark. You Get What You Want by The New Radicals.

She drives me crazy, again, the Fanya Cannibals, and Give a Little Bit by Supertramp. I'm shocked that Don't Bring Me Down or Even The Losers by Tom Petty. Can't believe Electric Light Orchestra, Mr. Blue Sky. Former London Symphony musicians who kept seeing each other in studios and doing serial commercials and said, let's start a rock band.

1979, highest charting hit in the United States was Don't Bring Me Down. Another example of how the UK dominates IP, name a great American band and I can name you five UK bands, and yet all the money is made in the US. Anyways, the original AI, they invented and we monetize it. So question, not Taylor Swift is your favorite, gave me five UK bands and yet all the money is made in the US. Anyways, the original AI, they invented and we monetize it. So question, not Taylor Swift is your favorite,

she was everybody else's. No, Taylor, yeah. I'm stuck in the 80s. Okay. You are. That's lovely. Electric light orchestra, I hadn't thought of them in a 100 years. Anyway, Scott, one more quick break, we'll be back for predictions. Support for the show comes from LinkedIn ads. Sometimes I might feel like B2B marketing can feel like screaming into a loud and aimless

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discover the best holiday gifts for the entire family. Okay, Scott, don't bring me down. Let's hear a prediction. I've been taking these ridiculously long walks with my dogs. I have weird predictions. The first is a serious one. I think that we're so focused on some of the stuff domestically that the biggest news are usually things we're not thinking about.

I think you're going to see an uprising in the beginning of potentially what is a revolution in Iran. Iran's proxies of which they've invested tens of billions of dollars over the last couple decades, the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, and now Syria, which is in the midst of its own uprising, has essentially had their hands cut off. And I think a lot of the people within Iran, you know, you shouldn't say Iran, when you're talking about the leadership there, you should talk about the Islamic regime or the Islamic Republic, because the Iranian people, in my view, this is a leadership that is corrupt, incredibly. I think the Ayatollah is sitting on a house of cards

right now, or Khomeini, I should say. And I think that the Bashar al-Assad's weakness, the second largest city Aleppo, has been taken by rebels or HTS, I don't know how to pronounce his name. But I think effectively Iran is more vulnerable right now than they have been in a couple decades. And I imagine adversarial parties within the country sense that and will strike soon.

So 2025, I think the biggest, or one of the biggest news stories will be an uprising in Iran based on- It would be great if an incumbent lost power in that regard, speaking of incumbents. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we were talking about incumbents losing power across the globe. Well, I mean, Hamas has the support of the Palestinian people.

The Islamic regime does not in Iran. And I think that all of their proxies being weakened and also all of their buffer states, Iranian air defenses are really vulnerable right now. Israel, it's really weird. The Middle East is being dictated by three non-Arab nations. It's really Iran, Israel, and you could argue Turkey right now, which is kind of

filling that vacuum. I mean, and Assad was going to turn to Russia. Russia has its own issues in Ukraine. I think all of the cards, all of the tea leaves are turning up really bad for Iran right now. And I think domestic rebel forces are people who want to overthrow this regime, which I think the West would like to see probably feel more jonesed up and confident right now than they've been in a while. That's a serious prediction. I have a less serious prediction. All right, okay, because Scott Zuccaria,

we have Scott Zuccaria going on here. Go ahead, go ahead. I'm dumb, it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Oh, Fareed Zuccaria, Secretary of State. Boom, I'm so good at this. Okay, all right, move along. Oh, Fareed, that guy's a genius. Oh, Fareed, that guy's a genius. I don't care, that guy's a genius.

Surround him with a few buffers, fine, but that guy's a clear blue flame thinker. Nice man too. Anyway. Not every time, go ahead. Who is every time? Anyway, so my second one is a little bit more, I don't know, trivial, but equally profound,

and that is I think that you're gonna see a strike, another strike, but I think it's gonna be by the world's top football players. And that is because of the outrageous explosion in value of these teams, a lot of the owners are trying to monetize it and meet the demand of the sport, which is growing exponentially by creating more fixtures and more international competitions. And there's this weird dynamic in football where a 22-year-old can basically play every fucking day. But by the time you're 26 or 28, which is what the best players in the world, when they

peak, they're getting fed up and they're getting injured and they are playing around the calendar. And I think that that's hit a bit of a breaking point because the best players in the world are the ones with the most demands on them physically. And I think with the announcement like FIFA, which has always been a tad corrupt, if tad means a lot, has just announced another tournament, another fixture. I think it's at a breaking point and you're gonna see the best players in the world

decide we've had enough of one strike. Anyways. Although getting paid, you saw Larry Ellison's wife, no one knew she had gotten married. She was a University of Michigan person. They grabbed that player from Louisiana. I remember in Louisiana, I was crying and Larry paid $12 million to get this call.

I like them getting paid. I don't know, I like college students getting paid. It is ridiculous. This notion that somehow the NC2A, which pays themselves a shit ton of money and then wraps themselves in some bullshit purity of college athletics, figures out a way to pay the 55-year-old white guy on the court $3 million a year. But all the black kids on the court,

no, it's the purity of the sport. It is enough already. Absolutely let these kids get paid. $12 million bucks. I love that. Good for him, man. Larry Ellison, just like here. Alex called me beyond belief excited. And of course, someone from Louisiana was like, how dare they do that?

I'm like, what are you talking about? You deserve the money. Free market. Anyway, good predictions elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe. This week on ProfG Markets, Scott spoke with Michael Saylor, great idea, the founder and executive chairman and perfectly timed of MicroStrategy to discuss MicroStrategy's decision to become a Bitcoin treasury and why it emerged as the best-performing stock in the S&P 500 this year.

Let's listen. Volatility is fire. If you're a normie, you run away from fire. If you're Henry Ford, you put the fire into an engine, you put it in a horseless carriage and you create an automobile and now people can go. And then you put it into a plane and a train, you see? So engineers are putting volatile, you know, you're a nuclear reactor in the spaceship. It's scary in the submarine. But Bitcoin is like the financial fuel. These things are crypto reactors.

It's a technically better way to do this. And it's the volatility that's actually the motor that's driving the portfolio or the treasury forward. That was really good. I liked it. I really enjoyed listening to that. I was gonna talk to him. The number one, the best performing stock in the S&P,

number two's in video, number one, MicroStrategy. I mean, this guy took a business intelligence firm that was worth, I don't know, a couple billion dollars, and he'd levered up the company to buy Bitcoin. And then now he's just issued zero coupon bonds, which means he doesn't have to pay interest to buy even more, and his stock is up sevenfold this year. And you listen to this guy speak,

I'm skeptical of the whole space. I think partly one, cause I've missed out on the bull run. And two, I don't like the idea of the de-dollarization and replacing the dollar. I think it's like the kind of invisible aircraft carrier for us. And also I do think there's some real downsides

that Bitcoin maximalists, including Michael, don't acknowledge in terms of the danger of it funding. I think it's good occasionally where we see the flows of power and money. But anyways, I've known Michael for 20 years. The thing I like about him and he is the voice the space needs, because he's not only a very effective cheerleader, or evangelist, whatever you want to call it, advocate. I have known him for a couple of decades.

He's a nice man and he doesn't start calling you a pedophile if you're not a Bitcoin maximalist like the rest of the Bitcoin Taliban or the crypto Taliban. He's not in jail. He's actually quite, I've known him long enough to say this about him. He's a generous, nice man. That's the voice they need right now.

Because the other folks hyping this thing or evangelizing it are not nice people. Or they generally don't acquit themselves well. You're either sign up for their religion or you're an apostate. Anyways, but the conversation, it's already I think our most downloaded pod so far this year. But this guy, you want to talk about balls of steel. He's kind of the Elon Musk we want.

He took this enormous risk that paid off enormously, but he didn't start accusing people of sex crimes along the way. Well, that's the lowest bar, but yes, indeed. I was thrilled that you interviewed him. It was great. I recommend everyone listen to it. It was terrific. I listened to it yesterday.

OK, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot. Please read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Endertot and Andrew knew this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Mia Severio, and Dan Shulon. Nishak Kherwat is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.

Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nmongmag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Amazon Q Business is the generative AI assistant from AWS

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