Pivot - CEO’s are out (literally), France's "digital service tax” is in, and 'innovator privilege’

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

Kara and Scott talk about leaderships shifts at Google -- Larry and Sergey are out and Sundar Pichai is in. In Friend of Pivot we hear from French lawyer, Dan Shefet about France's newly approved "digital service tax". Also, Pelosi announced that Section 230 won't carry over into trade deals with Mexico and Canada. Kamala Harris is the winner this week -- she may not be president in 2020, but Scott's predicting she'll be someone's VEEP. In fails Scott rants about Elon Musk and his defense of a defamation case in which he called someone a "pedo guy". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and what is he asking you to do? Or wait I can't say. We're not sharenting. Oh, I'm sorry. Never mind. I'm not sharenting. I sharented it with you, but now you're bringing it up. That's nice. That's a nice story. Let me just tell you, all I'm going to say is any girl that gets my son as a boyfriend is the luckiest girl in the world.

That's all I have to say. Until she meets his mother. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's going to be easy. I'm like the mother-in-law. That's going to be easy. I'm going to be such a good mother-in-law. I'm sure you'll be real easy on yourself. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's going to be easy. I'm like the mother-in-law. That's going to be easy. I'm going to be such a good mother-in-law. I'm sure you'll be real easy on yourself.

I just realized that. Oh, my God. I'm going to get to be a mother-in-law. Talk about the Thunderdome. My son and someone else enter, one leave, and it's called my son. Oh, my God. That's going to be ugly. It's going to be ugly.

It's going to be so good. Oh, gosh. That's going to be good. You know what? Then he'll get a hardy girl. That's right. She can keep up. It's going to be so good. Oh, gosh. That's going to be good. You know what? Then he'll get a hardy girl. That's right. She can keep up. That's exactly right.

Listen, Scott, there's a movie being made about WeWork, and no one has called us. Have you gotten a phone call about that yet? Well, it's clear that my agent is fielding multiple offers and just doesn't want to get me excited. I am so a lock for Rebecca Newman. First off, I'm an asshole. And my sense is she's like a world-class asshole. So I was born to play that role. You don't want to play Adam Neum with a wig?

I have gray legs. I'm totally drawn towards this hippie, poochy kind of wardrobe. I mean, look at me in a wig. Boom, over. I'm literally, I'm the guy from Queen. I'm the guy that played Ray Charles. I was born to play Rebecca Newman.

Wow. Okay. I did not see that one coming. All right. Okay. Rebecca Newman. I think we just have a cameo. We sort of run around the buildings and yell up at the buildings at them every now and then they cut to us.

What do you think? I'm going to write them. I'm going to start a campaign. That's what I'm going to do. Like my FedEx campaign last week. I'm going to start a campaign. It's why aren't Scott and Kara in the WeWork movie, all right? I'm going to do it. I need you to retweet everything I do. But speaking of which, speaking of movies, the ongoing movie that is Google is taking a turn this week with Larry and Sergey, the twins, the boys, are leaving Alphabet, their titles

at Alphabet, the parent company of Google. Google's current CEO, Sunder Pichai, saying we think there's a better way to run the company. They acted like they were proud parents, and now they're giving everything up. But the fact of the matter is they still have dual stock, and they control the company absolutely and completely. So what do you think this means? I mean everyone sort of heralded like the end of an era. They haven't been there forever.

I wrote a column about this today. They just haven't been there at the company very much and have not had as much effect. But what do you think about this change? I think it's another example of the perversion of our economy at the hands of this gross idolatry of innovators, and that is it's literally as if someone from the PR department found a press release that was two years old. These guys haven't been CEOs for 24 months. What the hell has Larry Page done in the last 24 months? Where are his figures? He's been doing a hovercraft. There's a hovercraft going on. Okay. If a woman was out to lunch for what is arguably

the most influential company in the world for the last 24 months, there'd be all sorts of scrutiny, but not young white male innovators. Oh, they're Larry

and Sergey, right? Yeah. The fact, if they didn't have controlling shares, some activists would show up and say,

here's an idea, do your fucking job. Like, show up. There's a lot going on here. And instead, they're like, because there's a big going on here. And instead, though, because there's a big, big difference. And the reality is CEO has now become kind of this fungible title. Hey,

I got a nose ring. I think I'll be CEO twice. Hey, I have controlling shares. I think I'll be a CEO of Facebook, despite the fact I am causing incredible damage to the world because I have super voting shares. So here's the bottom line. When you have authority, when you have control, also with that comes responsibility. And Senator Warren summarized it perfectly. Whether or not they're giving up the CEO moniker, if Google continues to create the type of damage it's creating and we continue to see governments decide we are sick of this bullshit and start to actually come after these companies and hold their feet to the fire and hold them liable, then guess what, Sergey and Larry? Regardless of whether or not you're giving a key to the executive washroom to someone else, you are responsible for what happens at this company because you are in control. And until you cede that control, be clear. This is all on you guys. Yeah, I think she did. God, I sound so fucking indignant.

I know. She did. I am absolutely a lock for Rebecca Newman. It was a shot over the hovercraft. I'll read it actually exactly. Congrats on the move, Larry Page. Quick reminder, we still do expect you to testify before Congress and changing your title while staying on the board and retaining effective control of it will not exempt you from accountability. Elizabeth Warren is a badass.

She is. She just does. She's very good. I was like, that is a perfect tweet. She's very good. You know, he hasn't been involved, and there's been a lot going on internally, including, you know, employee unrest. There was a whole spate of sexual harassment issues that were never addressed to that company internally under his leadership. You know, I knew him very well for a long time.

I covered them from the very early days. And he definitely has gone into sort of hermit mode. It's been the most unusual thing. He was always an odd in that way, just very quiet. But he exercised a lot of control and was quite – he's a tough guy, like internally. He's very tough on his employees. But what was interesting is the removal of himself and everyone being okay with it. It really is kind of – I don't even understand it as they're going through all these very difficult issues.

It's Sundar, who I do like. I have also known for a very long time. I do think he's more in the Satya Nadella school of, you know, I'm going to clean this place up kind of stuff. Very likable. He's very likable. And it'll be interesting to see, but he doesn't still have full power. You know what I mean? He just doesn't have full power.

That's exactly the correct point. As someone who's been the founder and largest shareholder and has been the CEO working for other people, CEO is an illusory sugar high. The bottom line is it's who controls the company. Because if you're not a CEO founder and you don't have the majority of the shares, you are temporarily in that CEO role. And it's great. You get to give the opening speech at the holiday dinner. But at the end of the day, the person that makes the decision is the one with the most shares or the one with the controlling shares. Yep, that's true. But the thing is I think they're going to use it as cover to get rid of some of these other things.

I said they had the search business, YouTube, and some very, you know, less impressive stuff that's going on there. So there's a lot of stuff like X, Fiber, Verily, Sidewalk Labs, Calico, all kinds of things. Ruth Peratt was cleaning a lot of that up, right? Yeah. You want to talk about a gangster. My sense is she's a very talented executive. She's going to move up. She's already up.

She's already running the alphabet part of it. But I think she's going to be a big player. Susan Wojcicki is still a big player there. It'll be interesting to see. Sundar likes his group around him. And I think it'll give them the cover to just clean, you know, sort of neaten it up. And I wouldn't be surprised if they got rid of the alphabet thing. Like, you know what I mean? It was just a way for Larry not to talk to people, essentially.

So, I don't know. It'll be interesting to see what he does and what he's allowed to do and how much interest these two have. Because they have, again, they have, you know, Sergey rides his 20-wheeled bicycle around Silicon Valley. There's all kinds. He has a meat plant-based meat thing. They've got, they're a weird pair. And yeah, I got to tell you from the very beginning, we'll move on from this. They were never that interested in two things, money or like the search business. It was funny.

They liked everything. They had so many interests around pollution, around all kinds of things from the start. And so they sort of lost their interest relatively early in the game, as I recall. Look, they should do what any good billionaire does these days, and that is try to get to Mars by a football team and start taking dick pics. I mean, these guys should start acting like the billionaires they are. And also buy an $80 million apartment in New York, the city you supposedly aren't coming to, because there's, God forbid, unions here.

Was that unfair? No, I don't think – the dick pic part, yes, it was. Anyway, in any case – Amateur photography. Because I think everybody does those at any financial status. Anyway, I'm not going to go into it. We're not going to talk about penises. I'm missing out. That's all you get for this show.

Listen to me. We're not going to talk about penises. I'm missing out. That's all you get for this show. Listen to me. I don't know how I'm going to make this transition, but Kamala Harris leaving the race, someone who talked a lot about tech, who tried in one of the debates to say, you know, the Twitter, get Donald Trump off Twitter. It didn't get much traction. Out. I think, you know, resume, from a resume point of view, she should have really been. She's so appealing and, you know, what a great record.

Did not do very well. Yeah. She had the second best tweet of the week when Donald Trump snarkily said, oh, we'll miss you. Oh, my gosh. Talk about the best clap back. She said, don't worry. I'll see you at your trial. Oh, my gosh.

Thank you very much. As you would say, and seen. She's really good. When Donald Trump Jr. said something about a joke of hers, she goes, you wouldn't know of a joke if you'd been raised by one, which I thought was really good. She's good on the Twitter. She's good on the Twitter. She's very clever. But it's really, I think we're headed towards, I wonder if this is another example of this capitalism is the best system except for all the rest, as Winston Churchill said, or the least, or it's the worst except for all the rest. But I wonder if capitalism in the U.S. has sort of hit this hunger games-like tipping point where

we, okay, so you go to Harry Potter World. You can pay $125 and you wait in line for three hours to go on the new motorcycle ride. You pay $180, you get to wait for 10 minutes with FastPass. You pay $5,000, you and four friends get to not only cut the line but go into the employee-only entrance. I mean, we are segmenting the world such that billionaires or people, not even billionaires, but very wealthy people just have such a dramatically better life that it's becoming, quite frankly, just all about the Benjamins. And successful capitalism has to involve some level of redistribution, some level of empathy. And I worry if the presidential race on the Democratic side is turning into that, because there is a scenario here, Cara, where with the

10 remaining candidates, they all beat the shit out of each other and spend themselves into oblivion through Iowa and New Hampshire. And then the billionaires, Steyer and Bloomberg, show up on Super Tuesday, and the other 10 guys are bankrupt. And they basically own it. They could potentially own it. I watched Madam President,

because I want Tia Leone to be president of the United States, and that's my world I'm living in right now. And I saw six ads during that for Steyer and Bloomberg. I was sort of like, what? Like there were at least three for Steyer and two for Bloomberg. It was like – it was a lot. And I was sort of like – they were good ads, by the way, and beautifully done. Well produced. Except for Tom Steyer's weird belt that I kept fixating on.

But it was really fast. I was like, wow, this is a lot. It was interesting. Well, it's not only adjunct organizers. They're going to have feet on the street. They're going to have hundreds if not thousands of people signing people up. signing people up. If money, if we end up with two billionaires as like two of like the four or five last men or women standing, it's going to be, you know, again, it's going to be another example of we have shifted towards this total hunger games. Well, speaking of Kamala Harris, I see

Madam Vice President all over her. She's obviously clear. Oh, my gosh. 100%. Her, Stacey Abrams. There's several really interesting choices. You know, whatever happens to Pete Buttigieg, he's also – if he wins it or – which seems unlikely to me, but he's another one. You know, all of them have – Cory Booker does. They all have vice presidential potential and significant vice president. Well, it's also – just before we move on, in addition to it, I mean, raising some uncomfortable issues. So, the one uncomfortable issue that all of this is raising is that, you know, you can, it appears, buy viability as president just with money. All right, that's uncomfortable.

And then the second thing that's uncomfortable is we're about to winnow from 10 candidates that look fairly diverse to four who all have one thing in common. They're all white. We're about to go to Warren. We're about to go to Sanders. We're about to go to Biden. And we're about to go to Buttigieg. And the two very qualified black candidates, Booker and Senator Harris, are probably out.

probably out. And again, it kind of goes to this notion that as much as we'd like to believe the country is progressing, and it has around certain issues, it kind of owes, it's coming back to the money and the white. And it's uncomfortable. Well, people are terrified of not being Donald Trump. So they're thinking of centrist white person. I think that's right. I think that's right. You know what I mean? That's really where it is. And so it's an interesting time. It's definitely, and definitely the spending is going to go crazy on Facebook, not just – on every platform including TV platforms. It will have a real impact on that. And then, of course, Trump has a fortune, you know, and then the question of what Facebook is going to do around micro-targeting, if anything. Yeah, money does talk here in this situation.

Well, query me this. Let's be clear. Let me go historical on you. Teddy Roosevelt was rich. Franklin Roosevelt was rich. Franklin Roosevelt was rich. Andrew Jackson was rich of their day. George Washington was, I think, the richest person, one of the richest people in the colonies. So it's not like this is a new fresh take on stuff.

There's not that. A peanut farmer, Jimmy Carter, by the way, all thoughts to him right now because he's struggling with his health. Very few poor people get to be president. You've got all Doris Kearns Goodwin on us. I know. That was a gangster move. Thank you. George Washington was like super rich.

He was like rich is rich. He was like one of the richest people. That's a fair point. I happen to like his presidency. But query me this. What do you think of this idea? And then I know you want to move on. Yes, I do. What if tomorrow or on a slow news day Biden announced something and got on stage and used – and basically hand-in-hand with Senator Kamala Harris and announced her as her veep?

Do you think it's game over? I don't know. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good one. Those conversations are – so many people are saying – calling her and saying, hey, would you like to be my – she is right now – She's an excellent VP.

You know, because she could – that's the sort of attack dog kind of – remember the Bob Dole kind of character? She'd be excellent at that. Don't lie about my record. Then Uncle Joe will be – well, except they do have the crime record that's not great. So that's one of the – together they're sort of like – No, no. I was talking about Bob Dole. Oh, Bob Dole.

His whole – Stop saying about my record. He was super charmless as a candidate, as I recall. Anyway, we're going to – American hero. What? I know. American hero.

He's a war hero. He is. Listen, he still was a charmless candidate. Anyway, we are going to take a quick break now, and then we're going to get back and we have a friend of Pivot from France. We're calling in from France. We'll be back after this. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle.

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from across the Atlantic Ocean. So NATO leadership met in London this week and prior to the meeting, the French President Emmanuel Macron announced he would be taxing U.S. tech companies. This is something that's been going on for a while. France approved a 3% digital services tax aimed at making major U.S.-based tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, and Amazon contribute to the economies of the world where they exist, make profits, and have offices in. Our producer, Rebecca Sinanis, reached out to French lawyer Dan Sheffet, who specializes in human rights and tech. He was one of the lawyers that brought lawsuits against Google in France last year. They talked via Skype from his home in Paris about what this tax means for Europeans. Let's go to the tape. So it started at the European level with this two-faced approach, the 3%, and then afterwards the digital presence tax. So absolutely, it will be a European proposed line. Boris Johnson is all for it, with or without Brexit. The only countries right now

that seem to have a problem with it, and I don't know whether it's still a problem, right now that seem to have a problem with it, and I don't know whether it's still a problem, were the Scandinavian countries and Germany. Now, Germany had a problem. I say had a problem because I don't know whether it's still the case with the new German president of the European Commission. But the problem used to be that Germany was afraid of retaliation from the Trump administration on the exports of German motor cars, of the automobile industry in Germany. So they were afraid of retaliation. So you may say that out of the 28 countries,

maybe Germany and maybe two more countries were reluctant to impose this tax. But I think that now we all have the same interest. Okay. He was talking about Boris Johnson is going to jump on the bandwagon. Trump troller-in-chief Justin Trudeau has talked about it in Canada. And, of course, Trump is threatening the French to tax cheese and champagne exports in France, 100 percent tariffs. You know, the tech companies are going crazy because they don't want to pay taxes. They never want to pay taxes.

So, Scott, what do you think? Trump has now, because of the incompetence around the trade war with China, the notion that he can open a two-front war against European nations is just a loser. And the Scandinavians and the Europeans and the French and the British realize that he can't go to war with everyone around trade, especially on the eve of an election. So, they're kind of holding the cards. around trade, especially on the eve of an election. So they're kind of holding the cards. This also represents governments filling a vacuum where because the laws and because of regulation and because of the idolatry of innovators and because of tax avoidance and because of the massive spending on legal resources and lobbying, these firms engage in wild tax avoidance. The U.S.

Treasury is going to write Amazon a check this year. Can you believe that? They're getting money from Treasury. And basically what European nations and France have said is said, okay, we give up. Your tax lawyers are smarter than our tax administrators. You always seem to figure out a way to break even or lose money despite the fact that you're the second, third, and fourth most valuable companies in the world. So we're going to do what Brazil has done for a long time, and any company over a certain value is going to be taxed on its top line. It makes sense. People are fed up. People are fed up with the amount of prosperity. You know, these companies are the most incredible vessels in the history of mankind that essentially do a couple things. They transfer wealth from the

rest of the world to America, and then they transfer the wealth from the middle of the country to the coasts. And people have had enough, and they realize they can't navigate the tax policy as deftly as these companies, so they're stepping in with legislation. It's going to start happening everywhere, and they're being given cloud cover to do this by Trump, who is the most disliked person in the world right now. I know. He sees everything in such a binary way. I think – look, these people do business. They actually had that money parked in Europe they were trying to bring home. They've been getting a lot of gimmies by the Trump administration, the tech industry, as much as you pretend they haven't been. They're opposed to them.

They're doing very well. And this is just a typical thing. It's sort of payback for all – like not saying so much anymore. And this – you know, it's interesting. People will, there was an issue in Germany a long time ago, the idea of trying to compete via regulation. And I think there was some in Germany, it was happening with the publishers.

The German publishers were fighting against Google and others. And in some cases, that is a good point. They haven't made any good internet companies there. Why? Who knows? Well, you know what I mean? Like a lot of people think it's the regulatory environment. But the fact of the matter is they do business in these countries. They should pay taxes, proper taxes in this country. And so that will be interesting.

And what's fascinating about it is that Speaker Pelosi is pushing to strip out sweeping legal protections, as reported by the Wall Street Journal, for online content in the USMCA trade pack in what would be a big blow to tech firms. They're trying to impose Section 230, which is immunity protection across the globe. Like other countries don't have to put up with our laws, our particular laws. This is the law that gives internet companies a lot of lack of liability in a lot of things. And so she is opposing that. It was a story in the Wall Street Journal. And oddly enough, and they're trying to put it in these agreements with other countries. And other countries should not be imposed by us, our laws like this. Like, they don't have to do it. But what was incredible,

so she's pushing to strip out sweeping legal protections in these trade for online content. And it's a big blow to tech firms. But oddly enough, Ted Cruz just tweeted, something I rarely say, I agree with Nancy Pelosi, Congress should not be passing special protection statutory giveaways for big tech. And then, of course, he has to add, we should protect free speech and stand up to Silicon Valley's blatant political censorship. He's on his own little island on that. But the fact of the matter is, it's something that both sides agree with and that, I don't know, we'll see where the Trump administration comes down on this. But it's interesting, the protections they're getting from him. This is actually really important. And it's the boring stuff that's typically really, really important. And this isn't getting the oxygen it deserves, because we wouldn't have

drinkable water in this country if it wasn't for the EPA and also lawsuits. And that is if your company pours mercury into the river and kids start getting sick, you're in a world of hurt because lawyers will pop up out of nowhere and come after you and put your company out of business. And while there's a lot of inefficiency there, it's expensive, there's abuses of that system. It largely works, and it creates a better world for us. But the problem is we have one sector and one small group of companies that can pour megatons of mercury into our rivers on every level, and that's big tech. Because for some reason, we've decided to give them total immunity from legal scrutiny around the massive damage they create every day. And the one thing, the one thing that would probably

solve the most problems other than breaking them up, you know, I know I'm a broken record here, would be the removal of 230. Because the moment they become subject to the same scrutiny and the same liability for the damage they do as other firms, you're gonna see an entirely different approach. And all of a sudden the geniuses are gonna figure out how to stop not radicalizing people on YouTube. They're going

to figure out how to not depress teens. They're going to figure this shit out. But right now, there's no incentive because there's no downside. This is really important. Interestingly, people say, you know, we get a lot of these, oh, you like regulation. I'm like, I like a little regulation when there's none. And it's funny. It's funny. The idea, you know, we get a lot of people, oh, you like regulation. I'm like, I like a little regulation when there's none. And it's funny. It's funny. The idea, you know, the two ideas they're pushing for it is regulation will hurt us, and then we need to be big to fight the Chinese. And so it's really interesting, the talking points that Tech is using.

This is taking regulation away. This is cutting regulation. Let's do away with that onerous regulation called Section 230. No, they're not going to do away with it, Scott. You can't do away completely. It's a very different medium. I would not go so far as adjust it in ways that – think about it for the times we have now. And I would like some intelligent people to discuss it.

And, in fact, I did an entire podcast on that. What about us? No, no, no. And us. No, no. I had like experts, like legal people, like talk about what it is. Yeah, Tim, no. I had like experts, like legal people, like talk about what it means. Yeah, Tim Lowe. But I do think that, you know, this combination of regulation, antitrust, state's attorney generals, Europe, taxes is going to be, you know, it's time to like – and then eventually get rid of the dual stock structures after a certain amount of years.

They might actually start to grow up and do their duty or whatever. They should – they just have to behave like everybody else gets to behave. Anyway, wins and fails. Scott, what do you have for this week? So my win is Senator Kamala Harris. I thought she ran. I think most people are saying it was a disappointing campaign, but the reality is she probably, if you thought about it at the beginning of the race,

you know, everyone running for president, who will be president? She probably has as good a chance of being president right now as anyone on that stage. It's just in 2024 or 28 based on her performance in 2019. And that is she came across as strong. She came across as thoughtful. I think she learned a lot. It sounds like her campaign, quite frankly, was a bit of a shit show. She wasn't able to carve out distinct positions that distinct from anybody else. But she seems like a very smart person. She comes across as

a real leader. She has an outstanding background. I think she kind of exudes strength. So if you were to say, all right, what one Democrat is going to be president, I think a decent bet is Senator Harris, just not in 2020. She's going to be everybody's VP pick, which immediately means there's like a 60% chance that you'll be president at some point. Yeah, that's true. So, look, I think she's run a good campaign. I think actually getting out early, everyone was second guessing that it was because of all the dysfunctional campaign. It might have been leaving the stage early might have been the gangster move here. It was, actually. I thought that, too. I thought that was great. It might have been leaving the stage early might have been the gangster move here. It was, actually.

I thought that, too. I thought the same thing. I'm like, she didn't hang around and become really pathetic. You know what I mean? She's like, I'm going. I'll see myself out. I'll see my, you know, it was classy. I thought it was a classy departure.

I thought her video was good. I think she does have issues. There was a great piece in the Times about her issues, people knowing who she is. I think that was one of the things. And I think some of the crime stuff really did chase her around, especially in the primary part of the Democratic election, her tough on crime. Helps her in the general, though. True, true.

Enforcing laws. As you know, as you say. Anyway, so what is your fail? What is your fail this week? Well, my fail is what I'll call this, you know, everyone talks about why privilege. I think this innovator privilege is out of control as evidenced by Elon Musk. Elon Musk's testimony in court where he's being sued for defamation by the cave diver. I think his name's Jesse Unrover. Basically, this cave diver took part in rescuing the students and their coach.

And Musk had this idea for a submarine. And the cave diver said that this is a publicity stunt. And to be fair, he said he should stick his submarine where it hurts. And then Musk started saying to his whatever 20 odd million followers, calling him pedo guy, and then doubled down on it and said, okay, well, it's interesting that he hasn't denied this. And so when a guy with 20-plus million followers starts accusing someone of being a pedophile, accusing someone of being a pedophile, regardless of how errant, regardless of how negligent the accusation of it is, it's a kind of accusation that a little of it sticks. You never really recover for it. So he sued him. And what's come out in court is that Mr. Musk, despite the fact that he's

incredibly impressive, despite the fact that he's incredibly wealthy, despite the fact that he has an incredibly big brain, he's an incredibly small person. And that is after this broke out and this individual decided to defend himself, you know what he did? He spent $52,000 to hire a private investigator to try and go find out if this guy, in fact, had any dirt in his past. I mean, that's just not— Well, of course, that's the move. That's the rich people move. That's not necessarily Eli Moss' move. It's such a small move, though.

Come on. Every rich person does that. Come on. A diver living in Thailand, he defends himself, and you hire private investigators to go dig up dirt on him? Of course you do. They do that all the time. Scott, wake up. Well, then they're all small people, Kara.

That's total bullshit. Yes, indeed. That's an awful thing to do. But I agree. It's not a great – it's a really bad – And who – you say, okay, you say billionaires. I know a lot of billionaires who would never engage in that bullshit. I thought, why not apologize, like profusely give money to something?

Where's the board? Who the hell can call this guy and go, boss, stop being such an idiot and a small person. Go on Twitter, and we will approve this tweet and say, I want to apologize. I was wrong. Let's move on. I hope you accept my apology. Boom, it's over. That's all they needed to do. And give an enormous amount of money to protection of whatever that person wants to do, that kind of thing.

Like, do some, like, say, this was my bad. Yeah, it's really hard for them to say, you know, so sorry. I mean, I have, like, speaking of the Larry Page thing, I'm like, I would like it. I'm sorry for what went on at Google. Like, you know what I mean? A lot of the sexual harassment stuff. Like, where was that? Like, where was that possibly?

And it's not like that everyone has to say I I'm sorry, and put on a hair shirt and do a Circe walking naked across the thing. But it's really, it is kind of amazing. I like that image. I don't know. Shame. I don't want to see any internet mogul naked. Shame.

Anyway, listen, I'm going to, I want to ask you, because I don't know whether it's a win or fail that Jay-Z joined Spotify, you know, that trying to do this title thing. I would like to know whether it's a win or fail that Jay-Z joined Spotify, you know, trying to do this title thing. I would like to know whether it's a win or a fail. Can you please explain it to me? I don't know. 50, but the strange thing is it's sort of a fail. 50 sounds young to me now. But wait, I want to go back.

You're good at keeping things from going, but have you ever had a billionaire hire investigators to dig up dirt on you? Because I have. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. When I was running activist campaigns and I tried to kick the entire board off of a company I started called Red Envelope. Basically, the billionaire who ran the board, they hired investigators to come after me. And this is what the firm Kroll, which I hope the earth opens up and swallows all of those motherfuckers.

which I hope the earth opens up and swallows all of those motherfuckers. But anyways, they basically started calling old colleagues and old girlfriends of mine and saying, I were calling about Scott Galloway. Are there any comments you'd like to make? And none of them responded. So this clearly wasn't a genuine effort to dig up dirt. It was just a genuine effort to intimidate me. Yes, yeah.

And we're talking about control of a corporation and the fact that people immediately resort to that. And it's like you wake up every morning and you know how you feel? You feel like, you know, if you've ever been pulled over on the side of the road, the first moment when you look in the rearview mirror and you see those sirens going. Yeah. That feeling of real fear. Really? That feeling of real fear. Really? When you find out, at least with me, when you find out really well-resourced people have hired private investigators to pore over every aspect of your life for 40 years, you wake up like there's sirens going off everywhere.

And it's at some point it's like, this is about business. I'm actually doing an investigation. I'm clean. I survived it. Ends up my credit's good. Everyone feels pretty good about me. You have not had Kara Swisher's pathology exam. All my girlfriends said the same thing. He's boring. I broke up with them. But, you know, that's it. Everyone feels pretty good about me. You have not had Kara Swisher's All my girlfriends said the same thing. He's boring.

I broke up with them, but you know, that's it. All right, whatever. In any case, I'm so sorry detectives are all over your life. I will not get to Jay-Z now. I want your thoughts on this.

I'm sorry, Jay-Z. Title didn't work, and this is a major star here, a major music guy. I love Spotify. Do you have Spotify? What music service do you use? I love Spotify.

I love Spotify, but my kids, I told you, move to Apple Music. They like Apple Music. They just moved. Monopoly power. Monopoly abuse. That's what that is. Well, no, it wasn't.

No, they just like it. My son likes it. Like one of them uses Spotify. One of them uses Apple Music. I use Spotify because I have a white phone rack and I like Spotify. I'm used to it. I love Spotify. I listen to us on Spotify.

But they're doing really well. But Jay-Z couldn't do a music streaming platform title. Well, there's no way. How do you – okay, platform is Latin for you need billions of dollars to create a mass, technology, networking effects. And Jay-Z has got a billion, but he doesn't have billions. It's – I can't – who's going to – who could do this? I mean, the Beatles couldn't do this or Madonna couldn't do it. I mean, no one could do this.

Who could do this? I mean, the Beatles couldn't do this, or Madonna couldn't do it. I mean, the No Wood could do this. These companies spend billions of dollars on R&D and distribution, and they have amazing brands, they have amazing technologists. So every once in a while, an artist gets angry and says, I don't want to pay all these people getting in between me and the consumer. And there's been a few times they've tried to do this, and it never works. The music industry, and the problem with, or one of the many problems with this monopoly era we're living in is, these mega monopolies cast shadow over all

the duopolies in industry right now. There's been incredible concentration across almost every industry, including the music industry, which is essentially controlled by a few labels. And so, yeah, I don't think, you know, this surprises nobody in my view. Yeah, I would agree. My fail, of course, is Bill Barr, once again, every week. You know, this surprises nobody in my view. Yeah, I would agree. My fail, of course, is Bill Barr once again every week. You know, even the inspector general doesn't agree with him about the Russia, his cockamamie scheme to somehow push back this Russia, these conspiracy theories around Ukraine and stuff like that. And then his own handpicked prosecutor is not going to support him on finding that the FBI acted badly in a certain way. And it's really interesting. He continues to be probably the most dangerous member of this administration, I think, in terms of what he's done to the Justice Department. I have a lot of friends who work there, and they're really good lawyers, and they want to do the right thing.

And I think he's my fail. He's my fail of the year, I think, in many ways. Thank you. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, prediction. That's a good one.

Prediction, Scott Galloway. Oh, I already made my prediction, Kara. I think the odds on favor right now for the Democratic ticket and the vice president role is Senator Kamala Harris. All right. Okay. That's a good one. She takes a lot of boxes. You just asked me.

Innovators. What was it? Innovators? Innovator privilege. Okay. That's a good one. She takes a lot of boxes. You just said something. Innovators. What was it? Innovators? Innovator privilege. Privilege. Really good idea. I think that's going to be more and more in the scenes. All right.

So Kamala Harris is your prediction. She's going to be vice president. I say I'm going to go against you. I'm going to say Stacey Abrams. How about that? Really? Yes. Yeah.

She's super impressive. Yeah. Super impressive. Yep. Stacey. All right. And by the way, did you see who's come up? And I think this might have been one of the reasons she got out was the new morning consult poll has Bloomberg at 5%.

Oh, you're a guy. I'm so excited when you serve in this administration. What will you be? What will be your job in the Bloomberg administration? And then we're going to close. What's your job? Secretary of Chipotle. That's right.

A burrito bowl in everyone's cabinet. Oh, my God. What is with you and Chipotle? Are they like your sponsor? Like, do you eat any other burrito? Look, I'm toned down to four or five times a week. Chipotle is so wonderful, Cara. Just surrender to the burrito bowl.

Okay. It's just like a chain. Oh, it's wonderful. I don't understand your obsession with Chipotle. It's fantastic. It is fantastic. Well, listen, I actually was in Boston, and there's a chain there, and I'm blanking on the – here it is. Here we go.

It's called Chilicates. Best, best chain I've ever had. Echo a mano. Dos Toros is right up there. Two Berkeley guys. Echo a mano con amor. Made by him. You could not have sounded more white saying that.

Say that again. That was really hilarious. Because I'm so bad at language. You sound like a sounded more white saying that. Say that again. That was really hilarious. Because I'm so bad at language. You sound like a Democratic presidential candidate mingling the Spanish language. What are you doing this weekend, Kara? What are you doing? I am doing nothing because I am by myself this weekend

with my older kids. And so I'm going to sleep. Nice. That's what I'm going to do, Scott. And then, oh, by the way, oh, next week, I have to interview Megan Rapinoe again. Oh, good for you. Yeah.

I have a whole bunch of stuff. You know who you should interview? What would be a great interview for you is you should interview Barry Diller and get his plans. I have interviewed him. I will. Why now? I'm saying again. Why now?

I've interviewed him hundreds of times. Isn't he taking over ISE or Expedia again? He's stepping in and kind of doing— That's a good idea. I should talk to Barry. I will call him. I will call Barry Diller. I will do.

And I'm going to interview, hopefully, the cast of The L Word. It's back. Erica Anderson saw it last night and said it was really good. Really? So, Jennifer Beals and Eileen Chaikin and Rachel Haley. Erica, giving an endorsement for The L Word. Is it on Showtime again? It's about to start on Showtime.

They are full disclosure there. Is Jennifer Beals back in it? Yes, she is. She's great. She's great. I was texting her last last night and she's very excited. She was on this morning on Good Morning America. She's

the best. She really is one of the most lovely people. Did I ever tell you my Jennifer Beals story? I brought her to CES once. She came to CES but long story wise she was there. She's a real techie and so we went on to the floor of CES, which is Consumer Electronics Show.

And she wasn't recognized there. It was incredible. Like it was – she's quite – you know, she's an icon with lots of stuff. Because there are just so many hot women rolling around CES. No, but it was amazing. And so I told the people we were going around with that she was an executive for eBay. And she did a great job being an executive for eBay. Kara Swisher and Jennifer Beals rolling at CES.

Yeah, it was great. That inspires so many mixed emotions. Hopefully that will be a good podcast. Our producers literally have their head in their hands hoping I don't say anything totally inappropriate right now. No, I'm waiting for you to say something bad. It's going to be a good podcast. I'm excited to talk to them. She's really impressive.

That's an iconic show. She seems nice. I am being luxist, but she just looks like a nice person. Is she a nice person? She's an amazing person. She's an amazing person. Anyway, so I'm going to talk to them because that's an iconic show. She seems nice. I'm being luxist, but she just looks like a nice person. Is she a nice person? She's an amazing person. She's an amazing person. Anyway, so I'm going to do that. I have a lot of stuff.

I got a lot of stuff going on, Scott. I got a lot of stuff going on. I'm going to do a lot of things. Well, Scott, we have to go, but we're going to be back. How can I miss you if you won't go away? We have a new show on Tuesday. There's a lot of stuff going on in tech this week. There's all kinds of stories dropping, I think, all over the place.

So we'll have plenty to talk about in tech and in media, but it's time for us to go. It is. Enjoy the weekend with your sons, Kara. Thank you. I will have a great time. Tell us what you think by tweeting us at hashtag pivot podcast. We've gotten a lot of feedback. Everybody thinks we should do a totally different show.

Some people like twice what we're doing already, but we'd love your feedback and what you think we should add and subtract and things like that. Or email us questions at pivot at voxmedia.com. Today's show is produced by Rebecca Sinanis.

Eric Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Rebecca Castro and Drew Burrows. Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. If you liked our show, please recommend it to a friend.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Do you feel like your leads never lead anywhere? And you're making content that no one sees and it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot.

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