Pivot - Davos Drama, DOGE's Social Security Scandal, and Netflix Goes All-Cash for Warner Bros

Episode Date: January 23, 2026

Kara and Scott the wins and losses at Davos, DOGE's mishandling Social Security data, Netflix's all-cash Warner Bros offer, and the FCC targeting late-night hosts with new equal time requirements. Plus, ICE agents continue to clash with protesters in Minnesota, and the so-called wine moms of Minneapolis are fighting back. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠. Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠ Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash Fox Business. Vox Business. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way, with Indeed. By the way, you look fantastic, let me just say. You know, unfortunately, Kara, my iPhone when I opened it, still, the Apple Face ID still works. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I just scooped out my litter, and Scott is in Swanky, Switzerland. This is the state of our relationship.

I was with your first wife just a few minutes ago. I heard she's swanning around there. How's it going? Yeah, she's one of my favorite things is this thing called She Knows. Oh, female quotient. They invite me because they know dudes will show up and they like to have dudes at their stuff. That's just what women want, but go ahead.

Well, I think it is, actually. I think they want to reach across the aisle, so to speak. Or I think they want to do a reach around. Oh, God, my mind is a blank now. Okay, you're in Davos. Yeah, yeah, that's where I am. And by the way, you look fantastic, let me just say. You know, unfortunately, Kara, my iPhone, when I opened it, still, the Apple Face ID still works.

So, and everyone's saying you just look like you. And I'm like, well, that wasn't the fucking point. Yeah, but anyways. It's subtle. I can see the difference. So, yeah, I'm here. I don't know if you can see this equivalent. If days in had a branch in Davos, I'd be here, but it's only $2,700 a night.

And if Trump gives another speech, the dollar's going to crash and it's going to be $6,000 a night. So I should probably go check in now like it's Weimar, Germany, or check out. Oh, well, before we start talking about Davos. I think you would hate it here. I do hate it here. Last time I was there with Megan when I was married to her. And like you, she got one of those weird global leaders of tomorrow's yesterday, whatever, the young entrepreneurs. And this was a million years ago.

And I went as a wife. And I hated every fucking second of it. And I'm sure it's worse now. You know what it is? It's the least sexy place in, it's the least sexy gathering in the world. It's like at the sex appeal of like a Marriott lobby. Yeah. It's just, it's rough here.

Give me an overview. Besides, let me just make a point. It's been 34 days since the deadline passed for the U.S. Justice Department to release the Epstein files. I just want to note that. Just to add that in. But go ahead. Tell me what's the vibe in the place where they pretend things are normal? Okay, so first off, the last time I was here was 1999. I was here 26 years ago. I don't know if you know this about me, but I peaked early.

Similar time frame for me. Yeah, I was there 26 years ago. And the vibe then was... Hopeful. It was about the Internet. America was about cooperation and consumerism. And sort of there was some... There was really optimism, like, I want more. It was very consumery, if you will. And now I'd say the vibe is one, AI. Everything's AI.

I was one of these guys running around trying to pitch my startup red envelope or my e-commerce incubator to everybody. Now everyone's pitching everyone on AI startups. And the American brand, which is meant to be the operating system here, I think, is really about coercion and chaos right now. And the vibe. And arrogance. Arrogance is what I'm detecting.

It's even beyond arrogance. It's just being rude for no real reason. Howard Lutnik was a particular moron on that topic, yelling at. Yeah, and Christine Legarde, she walked out on him. That was kind of the big event here. But there is, also, the vibe here is very unsettled. Because for all the talk about Europe being a union, it's clearly still not a union. In my opinion, the strongest move would have been if somebody had actually read Mark Carney's speech and said,

he just articulated how we all feel more powerfully than anyone in the European Union is done. we want him to give that speech. We want him to outline a series of things that we could do as a union of all Western nations selling U.S. Treasuries, forming a trading zone outside of the U.S., and they should have had all fucking 27 EU member leaders sitting behind Mark Carney. Instead, they just look like, oh, the number six, you know, the world's 6th, 11th, 28th, and the Seven dwarves economy are angry at us. They clearly don't care. All right. Okay.

All right, this is like you're attacking the Dems. Explain what the Trump administration is doing there. Because let's talk about the bullies, not the bullied, for a second. What is the vibe from a Latinque? Bessent looks like the man from Grey Poupon, like he's excited to find Gray Poupon everywhere he goes. Never seen such a crash in reputation of that guy. But talk a little bit about that, the arrogance,

because it's just you see it bristling off of tech people. The Palantir CEO, once again, needs to stop talking quite so much. The only one that was interesting was Dario Amodi, who was still trying to piss off David Sacks, which I enjoy every day of the weekend twice on Sunday. But what's the vibe from the U.S.? It seemed absolutely fuck you, like we're the man, even though, and I'm popular, Trump was saying, even though his polls are crashing here in the United States. Yeah, I was at a dinner I don't know, the way I would describe the vibe is, I don't even think it's, the business leaders, I still think, are really well respected.

People are still like, hey, anthropic, can you open a branch in Helsinki? And let's talk about Poland's economy. So there's still, I think, a real, I don't know if in terms of affection, but appreciation, because the bottom line is the American economy continues to grind on. And one of the de-masters in the interest in finance stood up and said, look, distinct of our political situation, and he talked about Anthropic. Anthropics raising $10 or $50 billion at $300. There's like seven companies in Europe worth $350 billion or more,

and Anthropics started five years ago. It's actually gaining a lot of ground in Enterprise, too. But go ahead. Yeah, it is. And it's kind of the success story, maybe outside of Gemini and AI, I would argue, with the last 12 months. So I feel like there's still a great deal of affection and want to work together. I would say that from the administration standpoint, their presence here,

I think arrogance is the wrong word. I like the definition of stupid. You help others and hurt yourself. You're an artist or a philanthropist. You help yourself while hurting others. You're a bandit. You help others while helping yourself. You're intelligent.

The definition of stupid is hurting others while you hurt yourself. Talking about how important it is for the U.S. to own Iceland when you mean Greenland. Yeah, that was... You just look stupid. And it's not going to happen. By the way. The big news, to be fair, he walked back, military action. He said, that's not going to happen.

He did away with the tariffs. He threatened earlier in the week. So we come across. Taco. We just come across. It's just, we're a baby with an AR-15 is how we come across right now. So is it worth it for you to be there? Do you, you look like you wanted to get out and I needed to helicopter in and get you.

But was it worth it? Is it worth it? Well, so I'm name-dropping. I said no. And then Larry Fink called me and asked me to come and said, you know, it was very nice. to me and said, this will be a good audience for you. And I got to give it to him. This is, quote unquote, according to people who've been here for 30 years, the best

of us yet in terms of the quality or the power, I would say, of the people. You know, Elon Musk felt left out. He's flying in this afternoon to give a speech. Heads of state, senators, the thing that sort of embodied how powerful the people are, I literally saw Lindsay Graham walking around looking for someone to talk to. Like, he looked lonely and he was trying to find someone to talk to him. So everyone's here. And by the way, you want to hear serious vibe, serious juju,

serious mojo, serious Riz. Fucking Governor Newsom is walking around like he is the next president. And guess what? Everyone believes him. He has an entourage. He has some, I'm not exaggerating. It's like there's light shining on the guy. He was, I walked down.

I walked down. I had one of those, this was a nice moment for me. I have a big ego like everyone else. I walked down in the Congress hall, and there was a crowd of people around this guy. And no matter how big the crowd is, you see him like he's fucking Rihanna standing on Arnold Schwarzenegger's shoulders.

He just, it's like God, he's like he's the chosen one. And then he stops and comes over, catches my, and he hugs me. I feel like one time this guy, the coolest guy in my junior high school, Andy Lauer, who I didn't think knew I was alive. I did a comedy sketch at the town,

show on Laurel and Hardy. And he came up in a class and he's like, go, you're the funniest. And he high-fived me. And for a day, I was the most important person I'd ever know. Okay. I was, it was like the cool kid, the cool kid high-fives you. Yeah. Anyways, came over, hug me and. Yeah, he told me. He texted me. He texted me. He texted me that he saw you. I'm just texting with everybody. I was like her ringing Mark Benny off. I was texting. Oh my God. I'm just texting everybody there. You're literally stalking me. I sit down a dinner last night, and the woman next to me was, Kara's talking me, she knows we're sitting together. I'm like, how the fuck does she know we're sitting together?

You're like the Stasi with Wi-Fi. They will text me. They're like, where are you? I'm like, as if I'm making cassidias for my children and scooping cat litter. But the highlight, I'm totally name-dropping right now. All right, go ahead. I got to sit next to Sasha Baron Cohen, and I rolled with him after, and he and I went bar hopping after. Oh, okay.

I like that. He was picking up a friend. and Katie Perry and Justin Trudeau. By the way, Justin Trudeau's skin, there's no way that guy was stressed in office. He looks like he's a world leader. Oh, now you're happy. You're swanning.

Anyways, I'm totally swanning. Swaning. Let's go. Let's talk about specifics. And hold up, but Sasha goes, I go, I'm going to this wine tasting thing, Master of the Universe thing, you should come. And he goes, can I come in five minutes?

He goes, we leave my name at the door. And I'm like, Sasha, something tells me they're going to let you end. Anyways, that's my big celebrity thing. Well, he's great. He's a great guy. Super thoughtful. He understands AI. I did one of my favorite interviews with him many years ago.

He said he was on with you. Yeah, he's great. He's so smart. Middle-class Jewish kid from the suburbs of London. But smart, really clever and also really thoughtful. And a lot of his stuff, if you look at it now, even if it's a satire, especially around the dictator, is spot on, like some of the stuff he wrote. So just so people know, a couple of things from their headlines, Donald Trump's backing off his threat to impose terror son. Europe saying there's now a framework for Greenland deal. There isn't a framework for after meeting with NATO Secretary General. Trump said the solution, quote, if consummated,

would be great for the U.S. and all NATO nations. There's probably more U.S. bases, the idiot. He could have done it before. That announces came just hours after Trump delivered his big speech at Davos, where he seemed to be gripping the podium as if it was a safe his life, where he repeated his desire to acquire Greenland or Iceland, as you said, as he referred to it. The speech did not go over very well. He insulted and threatened. threatened our NATO allies, even though the White House was saying it was great. I think most people did not think so. But let's listen very quickly to give him a moment.

So we want a piece of ice for world protection, and they won't give it. We've never asked for anything else. And we could have kept that piece of land, and we didn't. So they have a choice. You can say yes, and we will be very appreciative. or you can say no, and we will remember. It reminds me of my four-year-old Saul when he didn't get the correct.

Like a mob boss, isn't it? I know, I know, but it sounds like a toddler, actually, when Saul didn't get the hot wheels he wanted. Trump also wasn't thrilled with Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, who gave a quote, a speech at Davos Tuesday, talking about the rupture in the world order. This was a speech to remember. It was so beautifully delivered.

This guy is really a top level in terms of, of delivering a speech. Let's listen to what he said. We have a recognition of what's happening and a determination to act accordingly. We understand that this rupture calls for more than adaptation. It calls for honesty about the world as it is. We are taking the sign out of the window.

We know the old order is not coming back. We shouldn't mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy. But we believe that from the fracture, we can build something bigger, better, stronger, more just. This is the task of the middle powers. The countries that have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and most to gain from genuine cooperation.

Smart, not pearl clutching, not victiming. Cardi warned that the middle powers, it sounds like the middle kingdom, must act together because, quote, if we're not at the table, we're on the menu. He's absolutely right. Contrast the two speeches. And by the way, Trump sent the world markets on a roller coaster the last few days as global stocks plunged early this week following Trump threatening to slap tariffs on Europe, which you didn't. The markets rallied once he pulled back. So talk a little bit about these two speeches and the impacts on the markets.

I think you summarized it. Carney gave the speech to the conference. And supposedly, he wrote it himself. I mean, there's so many great lines in there. Nostalgia is not a strategy. This isn't a transformation. It's a rupture. And one of the call signs, I think, for great leadership is forcefully yet dignified. And he was all of that.

And, of course, he tweaked Trump and Trump mentioned his speech. Trump just, you know, he just came across his brambling and offensive for no reason. And the general vibe here is that the Europeans, not with Americans, I still think they want to work with American companies. Yeah, I would agree. But with the American administration, they're just sort of fed up. They're just like, okay, we're just sort of done with these guys. And Howard Lutnik, I don't know if you heard this. Howard Lutnik was heckled at a dinner.

By Al Gore. And these aren't protesters with blue hair holding signs. These are. Very polite people. These are state leaders who went to Swiss boarding schools and to, you know, Dalton and eat with the right fork. And they just listen to this guy. Talk about how globalization has not worked, and we've been taking advantage of it.

It's like, okay, boss, we sell in the highest margin products in the world to these trading partners. They sell in lower margin products. We have grown our economy faster than any economy in the world, with maybe exception of China over the last 20 or 30 years. Come again, why has globalization been bad for us? He just comes across as an ass. He's a moron. He's a moron.

You know, he never was a high-level person on Wall Street, like a best-and-we. wasn't the highest level, but he certainly was up there. But they both come off like morons, just morons. And that's the word I think of every time he opens his mouth. And, you know, he's such a thirsty fuck. That's really the way it goes. Anyway, so when are you coming back? How long are you going to go in?

I was supposed to come up tomorrow. I'm going to come out tonight. I'm going to piece out. Davos feels like Vegas for me in the sense that it was great for two days. And now I just can't wait to get out of here. Yeah, you look like that at the beginning. I like your videos, though. They're nice.

They're lovely videos. Yeah, I just, you know, I'm not raising money. I'm not running for office. I'm here. Why am I here? Why are you there? That's why aren't you? Well, you know why?

Because Larry Fink called me and said, I want you to come. So you come. And I mean, I met with the president of NYU today, the chancellor of Berkeley. I have a lot of friends here. Yeah, you get to see people. You know, it's nice, but I'd rather be at home doing podcasts and hanging out with my boys. And I'm finally getting to the point where it's like, okay, where am I? I'm really trying to be more purposeful.

Well, it's, you know what? It's good that you went, so you understand that. This is like going to the island of, you know, donkeys that. Pinocchio went to, now you know. Now you know. That's not the island. I thought you were going to reference, but I'll stick with it. And by the way, again, it's been a month since they were supposed to release the obscene files.

And we're going to keep a ticker on that one because they're violating the law, actually. But, you know, nothing. What is your perception of it as an outsider? Sometimes it's hard to read the label from inside of the bottle. Honestly, there's all manner and nonsense going on and really violent nonsense, most perpetrated by largely the government, going into houses whenever they feel like it. There was one photo that I actually was with my mom last night,

and I put on CNN because I happened to be on CNN talking about Dario. The guy in the bathrobe? Yes, the guy, not the bathroom, no, no, yes, that too. But there was like 10 ICE officers in front of a small house looked like a very lovely house. There was no criminals inside. Each of them with an AK-47, like a much, mushed up near the front of the door. And my mom was like, what are they doing? And I was like, oh, there's one illegal possible illegal immigrant in there. And she goes, why do they need 10

guns? I'm like, that's an excellent question, lucky. So I think, you know, I think that's, you're seeing a lot of visuals like that, a lot of gas being put out. And then that tiny bovino, the guy who's running it there, who is, there was the best thread of all time, I think, where it said, And, you know, he looks like, they look like they drive a Subaru. And so he's just, he's just a cheap. He looks like a ridiculous, tiny little man. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the revelation that shocker, Doge misuse, social security data, which we told you they would.

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60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com code Pivot. Shipstation.com code Pivot. Support for this show comes from Vanta. Customer trust can make or break your business, and the more your business grows, the more complex your security and compliance tools get. It can turn into chaos,

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saying this is probably exactly what's happening. It's very dangerous. This data is being shared who knows what else. And I think at some point we will find out exactly what was taken and misused. And speaking of Doge, Elon has dropped $10 million in support of a pro-Trump, Republican, Kentucky, Senate candidate Nate Morris, who is running to succeed, returning old person, Mitch McConnell. You know, he's trying to do this. He tried to do it in Wisconsin. So I don't know what you think about the Doge thing. I think it's just, of course, this is what they did.

And hopefully they will be prosecuted. Yeah, I just want to backtrack for a second to ICE because... Well, we're going to get to ICE in a second. We're going to have a whole section on ICE. But go ahead. In terms of Doge, like, you called this. You don't give your... I'm much more permissuous with my data than you.

And you said I would never give them my data. But unfortunately, the Social Security agents, you have to give them your data. I mean, the government, the government knows your HIV status. Yep, exactly. You know, the government knows how much money you have, what you do with your money, who you send it to. You know, they have kind of access to pretty much everything. Unique data that they need for these LLMs, by the way, unique data. And I don't, I actually believe in the government's right to collect data, but I think you have to match that with really stringent laws that if you're going to violate that privacy, it has to be under a threat of like domestic, you know, of terrorism or something.

Well, they had no, okay. accountability here. Well, yeah, nothing's going to happen, right? I don't think so. I don't believe that. I think we're going to, there's going to have forensics on this later, and we're going to understand it. Not fully, but what they did here. And I do know of tech people taking account of what happening. Cryptocurrency was happening here. And at some point, there will be a reckoning. But do you think people will be punished for this? I don't know. I don't think Elon Musk will necessarily be unless there's, you know, signs of, you know, take the stuff and run, I suppose. I mean, but he's just barreling on,

even though Tesla sales or cyber truck sales, they sold 20,000 last year. They're supposed to sell 250,000. I can't believe they sold 20,000, but, you know, he keeps rolling on. I think he'll keep rolling on, because he can collect money for GROC, or he'll keep doing, I just did a show today on CSAM, which is essentially child pornography, and he'll just keep rolling on, even though it's shameful what's happening. The other thing Netflix is officially updated, it's Warner Brothers offered to an all-cash deal replaced in the original cash and stock structure. The latest agreement reduces the amount of debt put on Warner's spinoff, Discovery Global, by $260 million. The two companies say the new structure should allow Warner shareholders to vote on the deal by April.

At the same time, Netflix narrowly beat Wall Street expectations in its latest earnings, the company posted $2.4 billion in fourth quarter profit, up 29% over the year. But the growth is slowing, revenue is projected to grow only about 13% this year compared to 16% last year. It's still working well. Netflix shares hit a 52-week low during the trading this week, which is why they went to all stock. I think it's just a matter of price with this Warner Brothers deal. It looks like Netflix has the inside edge at this moment, but I don't know any thoughts. Well, they continue, the expectations are so huge, even though the revenue and earnings topped estimates up 18 and 31% year-on-year-on-year respectively, the stocks been down, and they're at a third of a billion paid

global subscribers. There are a few takeaways from the year. The content spend ratio is almost less than it's ever been, which is good for shareholders. Yeah. You have noted that. Well, in 2015, Netflix spent $0.85 per $1 of revenue, right? Now they're spending $0.38 a 55% decrease, which says, all right, we're going to dominate the market. We're going to take advantage of our cheap capital, overspend on.

on content, no one can keep up with us, then we're gonna aggregate an unprecedented number of paid subscribers, and we're gonna let revenue continue to grow and hold our spending flat. It's a great strategy. Some people would argue it's predatory pricing. The advertising business, still not a big business. I've always been against it.

This year, accounted for 3% of Netflix total revenue, despite the fact that advertising revenues were up two and a half fold from 2024. I think it's bad for the brand, but it's probably very high margin. And in terms of watch time, as a share of television watch time, Netflix is sitting at 9% while YouTube is at 12.7.

A combined Netflix Warner Brothers entity would garner or register about 10.4% of all watchtime. So I'm still under YouTube. Yeah, it's much more, like all watch time is not created equal, right? Because just like HBO watch time is very impactful and cultural. It just, you know, watching, keeping up with the Kardashians, no one's going to be at the Academy Awards from that. Anyways, but those two, they're kind of gangis and Kong. the seven doors. So if they're number two at 10.4 would be,

the number three, Disney Plus, is at just 4.7. Yeah. So, and I've said this, I like Ted Sarandoz a lot. I'm not a huge fan. I don't know. I'm sort of neutral on the Alistons.

I don't know them. I'm a huge fan of Ted Sarandos. I would rather see Paramount own this for any other reason than I think we just need more bulking up of competitors. That's what a lot of people think, yeah. They...

I just think they're terrible owner. Yeah, you just don't. I can understand that viewpoint. You trust Ted more than you trust the Ellison's. I get that. I just, here's what I think. You know, a lot of people are making a lot of noise in Hollywood about like, oh, he's against theaters and Dave will save it. Dave is not capable of saving it, for one, the theatrical experience. And to me, I'm a consumer person. Consumers, if they wanted to go to the theater, they'd go to the fucking theater. And they don't. They go to theater when they want to. And the theater experience is declined because of theaters, not because of consumers, and not because of Ted. Sarando's. So blaming him for that is just, he's just doing his, he's just following the trends. And consumers have spoken. No rich Ellison person is going to save it. I don't care how many, you know, James Cameron's or Gris Nolan scream about it. If you make movies that people want to see in the theaters, they will. That's it. And so I'm not going to put that on him. I'm just not.

I just, it's his business to do what is best for his business. And so that's just my mind. Yeah, well, Carney summarized it, and it's apropos here. Nostalgia is not a strategy. Right, exactly. And show me a director claiming how it's all collective we need to go to movies. I'm going to show you someone who gets every Academy Award film. In his screening link sent to him and watches it in his home theater. You want an interesting stat. And also, what is a theater?

What isn't? My 15-year-old, best theater experience of recent memory, he called me. He could not have been more excited. He went and watched the final of Stranger Things in a theater. Yeah, sure. If you watch, it's up to your son. It was just amazing. He was just totally blown away by it.

Yeah. Here's a fun stat. Since the first bids were due for Warner Brothers, Netflix stock is down 20%. That's an enormous shedding. And as Aswat the Motorans shown, only one and three acquisitions ever pay off for shareholders. Yeah, this one's probably a good one for them

from the content perspective. They would be able to take advantage of all those things. Well, at what price, though? Right. At some point, everything's a good deal and at some point, everything's a bad deal. And this is also the thing about Netflix is they have, and the reason why Apple has been very disciplined

and not that acquisitive, Netflix has an outstanding culture. I got that. Did you get that deck? Netflix? I mean, Ted doesn't know. I should tell Ted this. Ted and Reed kind of changed my approach to business. I used to think of compensation is I want to pay people as little as possible,

give them equity, and create a nice environment, and try and generate profits. So ultimately I can sell it and then everyone is happy because they have equity. But I was always trying to constantly, I don't say underpay. Yeah, underpay. I was always trying to find ways where I could pay less than markets such that I could have a cashional positive company. Some of that was out of necessity because a lot of these companies I bootstrap. Netflix had, you know, that document that leaked about their culture.

Yeah, it didn't leak. And a key component of their culture is they say we want exceptionally well-compensated employees. But now it's totally switched my mind around compensated. I mean, granted, I'm in a different position now, and I can monetize other things, but I try to pay people between 30 and 50% more of the market. And what I find is, well, one, if you have the money, it's a good thing to do and stop bitching about income

inequality and live up to it. And two, it's like such a luxury because when you owe, when you pay people really well, I won't say overcompensate, you have no churn. And it just is so much, it's so nice not to get a call on a Friday, and I'm hexing myself from one of your key employees, employees managing. I'll be calling you on Friday. And saying, oh, I'm giving my, you know, two weeks note. Oh, fuck. Anyway, expect that call on Friday for me. Okay. Really? I'll be called.

No, no. You're going to semaphore? No, I'm not going to. She knows media. You're going to She knows. No way. You know, it's interesting what'll happen here. I think what it'll be is how much is that stub is worth, that extra part and comparing them. And it'll be come down to money, as we've said again and again and again. I do think Netflix is the superior buyer, largely because I think a pairman has to buy something. That is absolutely true. And if they were better owners, I might be more amenable to it.

But I find what they're doing over at CBS, even though it's a small little thing, is soiling themselves on a daily. So even though small decisions are bad, so I don't expect good decisions from them. That's the last thing in media. The FCC says daytime and nighttime talk shows aren't automatically exempt from the political equal time rule anymore.

That means if they host a candidate, they may have to offer equal airtime to opposing candidates. Talk shows had previously qualified for an exemption to the rule for, like ever. It's clearly aimed at late-night hosts like Colbert and Kimmel, maybe John Stewart, although John Stewart has more indifferent people on, but this is ridiculous. This is Brandon Carr, that's Thirsty Cho doing it again. I mean, it's the same thing. He failed last time by threatening them, and this is a threat, I suppose, whatever. Yeah, I actually like this law, but this is an abuse of it. I think it's a good law that you try and give people equal times such that one party doesn't weaponize the media. But this is just

an abuse of it. And I think where it will come back to haunt them and why this will go nowhere, someone's going to say, well, what about AM talk radio, which is dominated by Republicans? Correct. That is great. Yeah. And what is what is TV and what is radio when now radio and podcasts are now TV shows, just at a lower means of production? So I don't think this is going to hold the test of any sort of legal test that they're buddies over at News Corr or serious radio. or whoever it is, are going to want, okay, you set this precedent. We're all in the line of fire. Yeah, bring over the lesbian Kara Swisher over to Newsmax, whatever.

Oh, is if I'd talk to it. I would talk to my pillow lady who's getting ratioed by Ilan Omar every day. I'd talk to her. I would just to just do the same thing. But yeah, it's ridiculous. It's aimed at Colburn Kimmer, and they'll just have Marjorie Telegreen on. Fine, Brandon, you piece of shit. Anyway, anyhow, let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, we'll talk about the latest in Minnesota. By the way, Brandon Carr, I'm going to be following you after you're out of office, just so you know. I'll be watching you. Support for today's show comes from select quote. Time for some life talk, specifically life insurance. If you have policy right now, do you know how much you're paying for it and for how much you're being covered? Odds are you pay too much for too little. And sure, it's not the easiest conversation to have.

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they're calling Operation Catch of the Day with ISO. Oh God, they're so awful. With ISO officer targeting Somali communities. JD Vance is expected to visit Minneapolis as we tape as a show of support to federal immigration enforcement operations there. Ice agents in Minnesota have detained at least four kids from the same school district this month, including a five-year-old boy in order to catch his parents.

Tensions are already running high following the Renee Good shooting. There was a release of her autopsy. It looks like he shot well after he had to through the head. The first two shots were not great, but they didn't kill her, the third one did, so he didn't have to shoot her. Hundreds of Minnesota businesses are planning to shut down Friday

in protest of ICE activity in the state. I happen to be interviewing Minneapolis, Mayor Jacob Frye today, so I'll hear the latest. Where do we go from here? Well, the thing that struck me, I don't know if you saw this, but the best argument, I think,

around the Second Amendment or protection of the Second Amendment, even in the face of the original, you know, original founders, or the original founders, it could not have conceived of what these weapons would do right now, is that every time we have people know where guns are, it's been used to, the Nazis, when they rolled into a place,

just went and found where the guns were registered, took the guns away, and then Nazis showed up and had, there was no ability for civilians to push back. Okay, so we have guns everywhere. We have a mass police force showing up. Where are the people with the guns? And the answer is they've started showing up in Minnesota, and that is there are some neighborhoods. Have you seen this where people are outside on patrols with guns saying, sorry, don't come to my neighborhood.

I'm not endorsing this. I think it's, you know, fascism can come from the far right or the far left. But this does feel like they're risking and like they're begging for or prompting for pretty serious violence. and an excuse to start firing on civilians. I think, quite frankly, Minnesota leadership looks weak here. I just would have, I don't, I feel sorry for them. They're flat-footed. I don't know how they respond.

But if, if... What do they do? They're abusing citizens. What can they do? Resist these people have enormous firepower. I'm not suggesting they show up with zip ties and bulletproofs. I just, quite frankly, care. I think Governor Walts looks really weak here.

Okay, again, you're focused on the Democrats. I'd like you to focus on the people that are actually... No, I'm focused on actually both sides to be a critical thinker. But a critical thinker would say, what is happening with the people that actually have the guns and are abusing the government power? I'd like your thoughts on that. Well, I've just said,

there's mass police that reminds people to Stasi. I think it's horrible, and I think that Democratic senators should write up basically make it clear, we're coming for you, and the statute of limitations does not expire for these types of crimes. Having said that, I don't, I feel like no one is really stepping into the void of kind of of leadership here

and standing up and saying, all right, I mean, and I don't, I empathize with them. I don't know, I'm not sure what I would do. I don't know how you handle this situation. I got to be honest. I don't think this is, I would be very interested to see. I don't think the leadership of Minnesota and I'm sympathetic to an impossible position.

They've been very vocal. They've been very, they've been very. Well, the mayor has been, that's a good example. I think that's a fair point. So has the Senator Tina Smith. So has Senator Klobuchar. I feel like you're not, they are. What does Senator Klobuchar say?

She's been all over talking about we're going to come back when this is over. We want to tamp down the violence at the same time, this over-abuse of power. They're saying the things you want. These people have impunity. They just don't stop if you, you know, and I think the question is the only way to stop them is to attack them, which you can't do, like you can't do. And, you know, I think the citizens of Minnesota who have that history, like decades of this kind of resistance for long, long, long, long time are the ones showing the real bravery here. These people, you see. Agreed.

And I think. But who would you identify as, quote, unquote, the leader and pushback of resistance here? Is it the mayor of Minneapolis? Is it the center of Clovisar? Who is it? I think a lot of the local officials being very vocal. And I think judges are trying to pull it back. I just think these people just keep going.

I think Stephen Miller just says, okay, when they shoot a woman through the head, their next move is, yeah, now you can go into their houses, even if they're not criminals, essentially. And so I just don't know what the response is, except shooting at them. And I think that leads to a really. And that's why they've got these people, the government,

is if you're going to behave like thugs, the only response is thuggishness, right, that actually is effective. and then you're kind of, like, let's, let me do this. On a local level, after Fox News said that gangs of deluded why moms were harassing ACE agents, Amanda and I made a funny video, but we wanted to ask women to call in and tell us about their experiences. Let's hear one.

These are average citizens. Let's hear one. Hey, Scott and Kara. My name's Annie, and I'm a mom who lives in Minneapolis. I've been helping to resist ICE by driving kids to and from school every day. What we need to do is get kids to the classroom to learn. Their parents are too afraid to leave the house. and too afraid to go to the bus stop,

then this is where we can step in and help. Are these the actions of a leftist terrorist group? I don't think so. I think it's just people deciding that this is the right thing to do. So if that makes me part of the Deluded Wine Moms Club, then I will proudly wear it like a badge of honor. Thanks. One more.

Hi, Scott and Kara, and by which I really mean, Kara and Amanda, diluted wine mom. I am the mother of a seven-year-old, about 25 minutes south of St. Paul. And I got myself tailed by ice on Thursday the last week. The crime I committed essentially was taking a photo of the license plate of the Florida plates on only the back of his vehicle and giving him a dirty look, which he very well deserved. About 15 minutes later, he took my picture, I took his picture, and then 15 minutes later, after picking up my child at school, I found a very large black SUV following me very close range for five minutes, felt like. about an hour. So fun times here. These are, Scott. I mean, people are trying to do things,

and it reminds me a little bit of... Carried up a word in my mouth. You're making it sound like I don't stand behind the public in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Okay, go ahead, go ahead. I think what the young woman who said that she is shuttling kids to school, I think the efforts to provide food to people who might be harassed by eye so they don't have to leave their house, I, you know, I salute the people of Minneapolis doing whatever they can. I'm disappointed that there doesn't appear to be a Democratic leader standing up in Minnesota or anywhere else, showing anything resembling. I mean, like, we need a leader. We need somebody who is, and I get that this is a very difficult situation, but I feel as if, okay, we need somebody to, and again, I've said this before, why do they know, why are they violating everyone else's privacy?

And someone hasn't come out and said, okay, we're smart people. We know how to use the Internet. And here are the people that we believe have committed or accomplices to murder and second-degree murder in the Renee Good case. And this is the criminal prosecution papers we're planning to file, which will be outside of the statute of limitations. And so on a ground level. Well, Keith Allison has said this, the Attorney General of the state. It's just, I think what you're talking about is someone like Chuck Schumer and Hakeemper's. And I agree with you 100%.

Newsom has certainly talked about it a lot. Josh Shapiro has talked about it a lot. Anyone, you haven't heard a lot from some of the other presidential candidates, but you know, I thought that Pritzker stood up quite a bit when they were in Chicago. I think every presidential candidate, I mean, I mean, I'm just kind of, I think every presidential candidate should be in Minneapolis right now. I agree. And saying, and peaceful protests, not threatening anyone physically,

but, you know, just there. And I don't, this is, what's going on here is contrary to the very reason America was founded. The reason we started this experiment was we didn't want to be abused by a monarch who had no checks and no balances and no control that could just abuse citizens based on what they felt was advantageous for them or their blood sugar level. And that's what's going on here. But I'm disappointed in the Democratic Party that it strikes me. It's like it feels like there needs to be a leader here, and it's not obvious to me who that is. You know, back, anyway, I was listening to Rachel Maddo's burn order, which is about Japanese internment camps. And two groups of people stand out to me.

One are Quakers who threw blankets and everything up over these internment camps, even as the army was lying about what they were, which was, you know, which was astonishing that they did this, I mean, blankets, does it end it? No, but it helps. Just like these women driving these kids, right? That is critically important for citizens to get out there. And there's a lot of videos of just average citizens who are like, have never come out and is like, I'm sick of this shit.

I love that. But one of the people that it reminds me of is this guy, Colorado Governor Ralph Carr. He opposed the intern Japanese Americans. He called it unconstitutional. He welcomed him to Colorado. He cost him politically. He lost because of all this.

anti-Japanese sentiment. He thought denying rights based on ancestry was an undermining the American system, and he welcomed them. And he was unpopular. And he, he, he was, the downfall's political career. Now there's lots of things named after him in Colorado. But he took, it was a price. It was an absolute price for this guy. And the backlash was significant at the time. But if you think about those kind of things, you, you do need a political figure like this, even if at great cost and you're absolutely right. And they do have to put their bodies on the line and their political reputations. But to me, this is going to be citizens going to push back here because that's how the Minnesota way. And one thing, I really appreciate these moms calling in. This is

the kind of stuff you need to do. None of them, they're just exercising their rights as citizens in the United States. And they do not seem particularly dangerous to me. So I think that's a good thing. I'm sorry, I wasn't mean to put words in your mouth. I just think the focus, unfortunately, Fortunately, it's going to be on citizens going forward. No, and you're right. It's clear I haven't registered nor paid attention to some of, you know, for example, Senator Klobuchar and what they have said. And I do empathize with like, you know, the point is, okay,

what exactly do you do with people with federal government who have mandated weaponry? The whole thing is, again, I'm waiting for the Democrat. to say, this is who we are going after these folks. I think you are breaking laws, and if you break more laws, we're coming for you. We're keeping names. We're taking, making lists. Yeah, we're taking names.

Yeah, I agree with you. And it may take us 36 months before we can do anything, but 36 months goes fast. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, you know, I think it's sad for the people having to do it, but that's, but they're also doing it without stopping, and I get they need money, but there's other ways to, People hate them. People hate them. And that's not no way to live.

One more quick break, we'll be back for predictions and Kara's wins and fails. Nice. At Medcan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health, from the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today. And may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer. The healthier you means more moments to cherish.

Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today. Medcan, live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Okay, Scott, let's hear your prediction, and then I will say my wins and fails. So if there is an upside, and I admit we've been possible to call this an upside, but I do think that there may be some element of distraction around this Greenland shit. I won't even give them that credit. Bottom line is my prediction is that I think we're about to see the U.S. conduct a military strike on Iran.

I think you look at the USS Abraham Lincoln carrier strike force. By the way, none of this is confidential information. It's all been reported. The fueling tankers that basically give you like a gas station in the sky, many of them were relocated to bases in the region. And some of that just might be, okay, the region is a bit hot right now, so we want additional kinetic power there. But I think, one, I think it's the right thing to do. I think we have an unbelievable opportunity here to topple of regime who's been the primary funder of terror and the most oppressive regime maybe globally in a long time and is really deeply weakened. I interviewed

Neil Ferguson yesterday, the historian for the prof G-pod, and I asked him, what is the likelihood the regime survives if we don't intervene in a coordinated strike? And he put it at 90%. He said, they'll just wait it out. Well, they tamped down the protesters. They've tamped down the... Well, yeah, when you start killing people, right? Speaking of which... And you can do the right thing for the wrong reasons.

I think Trump is going to do this because I think he absolutely loved the macho Tarzan light that Venezuela provided him. Yeah, he was Jones in for something like that and it gets away from the Epstein files. Again, 34 days. There you go. Turn him over, Pam.

Pam, it's a law. Turn him over. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's exactly right. I am going to do wins and fails. The Oscars weren't released today. I'm going to do something lighter because this has been a heavy situation, despite the fact that I really enjoy your Davos stories.

I'm really, the Oscars came out. A lot of great movies this year, 100%. But I was actually very heartened to see someone like Kate Hudson get an Oscar nomination. What's she been nominated for? For Song Song Song. Oh, that's supposed to be a cute movie. Delightful movie. I don't think she'll win.

Probably Jesse Buckley from Hamlet. There's a bunch of others who are... probably more actory. But I think she's a hardworking, you know, she's the daughter, obviously, of Goulding Hawn, but she's done some amazing work, including comedy, more serious stuff, almost famous. Almost famous or absolute famous? What was that called? Almost famous with Cameron Crow's movie.

She was wonderful in that movie. But I think she's a hardworking, and she's in a Netflix series I like a lot about the L.A. Lakers, essentially. And she's, I took, as I said, I took my wife Amanda, who was like, Kate Hudson. And then she came out, she goes, that was an astonishing. acting. I was not expecting how layered and good that was. And so, so anyway, so she was, I just feel good for her. Good for her to get in there. I doubt she'll win, but I think it's a nice job you should see the movie. It's still, it's, if you feel bad, go see that movie. It's sort of like heated rivalry. You feel bad, watch it. And then,

I'm just going to do two wins. Again, with the heated rivalry, one of the funniest things happening on the internet, this is not a new thing, are people acting out scenes from heated rivalry in public and putting them on. And they are so funny. They are so, they made me laugh my ass off. There was one where the two guys were doing it in the DMV in front of this woman. And she was just watching the whole thing. And it just, the feeling, one of the things that was really issued is Esther Perel talked about the reason people like Kito Ravu, which is sort of the media of the moment, really. And it's because she was saying that it makes you feel better about the outcome, that you're expecting the hit and you don't get the hit, you get the right response from people. And it retrains

you to think everybody's not evil, essentially. Like, I know as a gay person watching it, like, I was waiting for someone to get beaten up. I was waiting for some rejection or some ugliness. And all the answers are good. And so I'm going to go watch this any time because I was just sitting there waiting for the bad news as a gay person, because it always comes in those depictions and in life. So it was not as much anymore, but definitely in my younger life. So I just thought that was great. That was great, too. I'm going to do two wins.

I don't have a thing. I know. I don't even see movies anymore. I already know who's going to win the Oscar. Who? Well, you just tell me which film has the following. It's a quote-unquote brave film, which means, which is Latin for, it has sad people, foreign accents, subtitles, or it's a biopic where someone discovers

racism in the third act. Which movie is that? Is it him that? No. One battle after another. I really don't know. Oh, no. They're all very good movies.

They're all, these are not, these movies that are being nominated are terrific, actually. Yeah, and all these actors claim they hate sequels unless it's the same movie about Hollywood loving itself, which they remake every year. I wish sinners would win, but I don't think it will. Is that a good film? You like that? Yes. Yes, I love that movie. I thought it was great.

And I wish, you know, actually, when I was looking at the nominations, I was like, and I don't think that show matters. anymore, or the Oscars necessarily matter. But they're all good. I was like, oh, I'd have a hard time picking here. Every one of the actors, terrific, supporting. The only thing that has to win is golden from K-pop demon hunters. Thank you. That was the only thing I would have to say.

Song of the Year. And again, a happy song. I'm going to leave on a happy note. That's what I'm doing. I'm not going to talk about other things like that. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. go to NYMag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show.

We'll call 85551 Pivot. Before we go, Scott, you also got a shout out from Michelle Obama on Call Her Daddy Podcast. It's such a combination. Call Her Daddy and Michelle Obama as someone who's done important work on how social media is affecting children. People should go check that episode out. Congratulations. It was very lovely to hear that. I have a lot of people writing me about you.

Meanwhile, Kara Swisher is getting some accolades of her own. Let's play a voicemail. this week on my phone. If this is Karen's, Kara Swisher's number, I just wanted to relay that she's a fucking piece of shit. That's it. Oh, thank you for that. That's it.

What's for? Let's call back and tell me what is for. I really appreciate that. Oh, my God. It's on a number. What did you do that? I don't know. I don't know.

You have Michelle Obama petting you all over the place saying you're, wonderful. I get this. I'm a fucking piece of shit. So just to... Anyway. That pisses me off because guess what? You know who doesn't get voicemails like that? What? Men. Yeah, they don't. Yeah, they don't. People... Usually from men, actually, usually from men, but actually, this is a woman. I don't know. Misogyny is sort of a universal practice. It's not limited. I, it's probably unfair to call her misogynes. Maybe she feels wrong by you or whatever, but I'm not exaggerating. I get a lot of shit posting online. No one ever like

calls me. Yeah. How I get it all the time. Yeah. And there's just a different level of, anyways, I don't know. I did seriously think it was my mother at first. That's lucky on Mother's Day.

By the way, our producers are, so they can call and leave you a message if you're feeling left out. Yeah. No, I like to pay people to leave those kinds of messages for me. Yeah, I know. Well, I just wanted to play it

because, you know, lady, if you're going to leave me a fucking asshole message, I'm playing it and using it as content. And also say why. But fuck you. Like, anyway, I don't really care. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot.

And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, Michelle Obama loves you. Read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zohie, Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Christine Driscoll. Additional assistance from Kate Gallagher and Brad Silvestor. Ernie Intert, Entert, Enterning this episode. Manola Moreno edited the video.

Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Mia Severeo, Dan Chalon. Nishak Corwest-Cobos Vox Media is executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at N1Mag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.