Pivot - Disney open doors to the NBA, NYSE rings the bell, plus former Facebook Exec on Zuckerberg's WFH move

Episode Date: May 26, 2020

Kara and Scott talk about Disney open its doors to the NBA as professional sports leagues attempt to resume their seasons. Meanwhile, the New York Stock Exchange will be open to traders again this week. Scott thinks there will be a strong class of IPOs by the end of the years. Then we hear from Caryn Marooney, the former VP of Global Communications at Facebook. She gives an insider's look at Mark Zuckerberg's new work from home policy. Jacinda Arden is Kara's win and Joe Biden's lack of momentum is Scott's fail. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. do listen to me here's a pandemic scott and i have spent much of memorial day together we taped his pre because we cannot stop working because we need self-aggrandizement we have done his show and now we're doing this aren't we yeah no we're the empty calories of uh linear broadcast ad supported television and radio we might as well seriously it's like back to the future to the back to the something i don't know what i can't figure out if we're on the cutting edge or if we're literally like the lamest time travelers in the world.

I don't know what's going on. What are we? What kind of dinosaur would you be if you were a dinosaur? Oh, the T-Rex. No. That shit's gangster. Either that or that. Velociraptor.

Happy Brontosaurus. What would you be? Or Stegosaurus. Remember Stegosaurus with the mean tail? Oh, yeah. Easy stegosaurus. No, I would be the velociraptor. Velociraptor.

Oh, yeah. That's a Spielberg pull. Yes. I know. Every time I watch a streaming video platform or movie, it's such a metaphor for my life. My whole life is now over the top platforms, and that is I get excited about something. over the top platforms, and that is I get excited about something, as I get very excited about a TV show or this podcast or something in my life.

I rip through it. It's very rewarding. And then it's over, and I don't know what to do with my life. Watch West Wing. I don't know what to do. Watch West Wing. It's on Netflix, I think. It's like when people tell me to watch The Wire. I just try, and I can't.

No, West Wing, you will be so happy. You want this president in your life. It's like when people tell me to watch The Wire. I just try and I can't. No, West Wing, you will be so happy. You want this president in your life. It is like 27 seasons. Yes, it's 27 seasons. And Alice and Janie is just amazing. So that is all I have to say about that. And you can handle Bradley. Alice and Janie, let me guess, she's a lesbian actress.

No, she plays CJ on the show. She's the press secretary. I'm not going into it. Just watch. Trust me on this one. It will make you feel better. Listen to me. Memorial Day weekend, Donald Trump went golfing.

What did you do? What did you do? Same thing I always do. I'm not exaggerating, so I'm being very serious. I think that there is something about, and I'm coaching young people around this. I am exceptionally good at not working. It's a hobby of mine, and I'm very focused on being able to not work for the majority of the remainder of my life. Yeah.

And in order to do that, I think you have to be strategic about when you work. And I think this is, and we've talked about this, you're doing the same thing. I think this is an extraordinary opportunity to produce content when there's very little content out there. So what am I doing? I'm working fucking around the clock. You are. We are.

I did a TV show this morning. I'm doing this here. I'm recording my other podcast. I'm all over this shit because I would like to spend a lot more time not working. I am not going to be remiss in saying that Anderson Cooper is in deep love with you, Scott Gallagher. I can't believe it. Ando? Me and Ando?

Go on. What did he say? I'm sorry. it. Ando? Me and Ando? Go on. What did he say? I'm sorry. What did he say? That is so, you are so not gay. Listen to me. He is dreaming. I think Sanjay likes me too.

Sanjay just couldn't, didn't know what to do. He was staring. He looked like he'd seen a poltergeist when I was talking. Seriously. I was like, Sanjay, come on. The staring is, stop staring. He was like, what the, like, what is going on here? And he was probably trying to figure out what kind of drugs were happening to cause you to react like that.

That's what I think he was thinking about. No, the question is what drugs aren't happening. We're talking ED. I'm thinking about doing one of these controlled MDMA experiments to find out what's wrong with my life, which should be pretty easy. That should be pretty easy. That's not the hard part. I don't need drugs for that. I don't need drugs from the repertoire of your drug carousel kind of thing.

Yeah, no. I'm going on again. Back to Anderson Cooper. Literally, I sat there. I almost was like, listen, Anderson Cooper, now you have made him a – there's going to be no dealing with him now that you said this is the most fascinating conversation. I'm like, what conversations is he having that this is the most fascinating one? Well, look, it's been pretty clear that I've outgrown you. So I am to you what my father was to my mother in the early 70s,

and I've decided I've outgrown you. I don't even know what that means, but I've outgrown you. All right, let's break down the big story. The story is the Cuentas Grande. There's the Espanol rolling out. We're going to get on to the big story. Who didn't die is professional sports leagues. They're ready to make a comeback.

And Disney might be the happiest place on earth for sports fans. White House called for sports as an essential part of the great American comeback after churches, I guess. Today it's sports. Now many leagues are preparing risk reduction strategies to get games going. This includes playing without fans, which is a weird thing, but there you have it. Leagues working on this include NASCAR, Major League Baseball, and the National Hockey League, which, boy, without fans, I'm not sure I want to watch that. Disney, despite having notable challenges in the theme park business, has found itself

a key role in this effort. The NBA is considering a relocation of the entire league to the ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Disney's Orlando theme park. That's a fascinating idea. The complex is roughly 255 acres with multiple arenas. Really impressive. Major League Soccer is also considering moving there. Meanwhile, Disney is working to reopen Disney World theme park in Orlando as well. To me, this is really fascinating. So no one knows how it's going to play out. But I got to say, of all the companies, I would trust Disney to do the right thing around safety and everything else. And everybody wants sports to come back. And of course, it has to come back. What do you make of all this? Because it's so

important from a money point of view and important. I do think it's important from a mental point of view for our society too. Well, so a couple of things just on sports. I believe spectator sports is the new cancer. Show me someone who spends two, three hours an hour watching ESPN and then football all day Sunday. I'll show you a future of failed relationships and anger. I think people need to be playing sports a lot more than watching them. But that's neither here nor there. So, look, if you think about the competence that has garnered hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars in value that largely reemerged in the last three decades, it was the ability to digitize something.

Your ability to take storytelling, commerce, experiences, and try and digitize them or turn them into software has become the premier competence that has reshaped the global economy. And what's interesting here is that there might be a new competence emerging that reshovels dramatic shareholder value, and that is loosely what I would call vaccination. And if you think about what Amazon's trying to do with their supply chain, well, they're trying to vaccinate their supply chain. And of course, their stock's just hit an all-time high, and I think it's at $2 trillion by the end of 2021. And Disney, which is the second smartest guys or gals in the room, has said, all right,

how do we unlock assets to become the first vaccinated experience? And that is, no one like that. I don't know if you remember, I did my pre-prom at Disney, and it was like, if you lit up a joint or even thought about lighting up a joint, some nice white kid came up to you before you knew you were in the Disney jail. Not that I would know about that. Not that I would know about that.

What does the Disney jail look like, Scott? Disney is literally like, I mean, I don't know what – I was about to say Nazis, but I don't want to compare anyone to Nazis. So something like Nazis. The good part of Nazis is very organized and very meticulous and very methodical. There's no good part of Nazis. Let's try to. The uniforms. No.

Anyways. Can you just say they're organized like the police of Singapore or something like that? Disneyland is run like a Panzer. Disney has run like a Panzer tank. Once again, Panzer would be Nazis. No, no. There's so many other comparisons. I'm going to force you to do a better comparison. Tiger tanks, deflective armor, incredible.

Messerschmitt, best plane of the World War II, although vastly underrated. Anyways, you have a company that has the ability to probably create, continue to deliver exceptional differentiated experiences in a vaccinated, somewhat safe place, even if a lot of it is just show and reputation. And then they potentially are saying, all right, now we can bring it to this $200 billion a year franchise called sports. We have the facilities, we have the reputation, we have the human capital, we have the protocols, we have the systems, we have the capital, and we have the brand to kind of pull this all off. So I think this is really visionary. Yeah. I think it's a great idea.

The biggest unlock, I love the term unlock in that it's taking, it's not even innovation. It's taking existing assets and looking at them in a different way. And when you think about what Walmart did with Click and Collect Grocery, let's stop taxing people with this shitty in-store experience and just give them the great experience of our groceries, which are fantastic. This is, I actually think in sports, NASCAR, take away the fans.

That's an unlock. I don't think NASCAR fans are adding anything to the TV experience, right? Other than making you think, wow. Not the TV experience. No, but they do make money from, you know, the fees that go into it and stuff like that. I think most sports have become

mostly about TV. Like, you go to a Miami Heat game, that shit's for real. There are some really hot people walking around. That adds to the experience. Hockey, not so much. But they turn down the lights in a lot of sports. I mean, this is what could happen, and it's really interesting.

I've all of a sudden become, my show on Vice airs after something called The Dark Side of the Ring, and it's all about professional wrestling. So, of course, I'm learning about professional wrestling. By the way, amazing athletes, amazing athletes. But in the ring, it's staged. It's a show. And then the audience reaction is real. And I wonder if professional sports are headed the opposite way, where you're going to have what's going on in the court is for real, but the audience becomes a stage presentation.

And that is using holograms, cardboard cutouts, turning the lights down, special effects, you know, like the Norman Lyric comedies of the 80s where they have a laugh track. I bet, I bet they're going to be able to have the NBA finals and largely, largely electronically through special effects mimic the crowd. Yeah, they probably could. I do think people like going to events. I have lots of friends who like the whole going to of sports, like a baseball game, an empty baseball stadium.

Sure, they can play, but there is something exciting about being there. And I think it is exciting for the athletes too. But you're right. I mean, all that matters is the money they make from TV more than anything, not from gate. They make money from the hot dogs and the gate and stuff like that as part of their business. But most of it is TV rights, which I think is important. I think getting them started like this is a great way until we get to a vaccine where people can actually physically show up.

I think they're running into a lot of problems if they do bring in too many people to Disney World. I mean, they're definitely opening themselves up to it. bring in too many people to Disney World. I mean, they're definitely opening themselves up to it. But I do have to say, in terms of park management, I interviewed several different Disney executives over the years about the technology of park management. And they had used these things that you put on your wrist. We introduced them at one of our All Things E conferences and stuff like that. They're incredible at management, crowd management.

Great at what they do. Great operators. And move people. And if you've ever been on a Disney cruise, literally it's run not like Nazis, but it's run with great efficiency. Like the Hindenburg. No. I'm sorry.

Go ahead. The QE2. You're staying away from Hitler the rest of the show. And probably forever. Okay? I'm going to make a decree right now. My favorite movie star. In any case, they run things around beautifully.

They run things around beautifully. And it's also done with a lot of courteousness and care also, which is interesting. And, you know, of course they made fun of it in Jeffrey Katzenberg's movies in the – what's his name, that green troll guy? Anyway, they made fun of it in movies as being sort of the unhappiest place on earth. But it really is something to see. And especially behind – Shrek, that's right, sorry. Shrek's hilarious. I watched it when my kids were little.

Michael Myers. I know. But they make fun of the guy who's playing Michael Eisner, that Prince guy. That's a version of him. In any case, I think it's a big move by Disney. It's smart to take these assets. It's very smart. Genius, actually.

I mean, it really is creative. And we don't need the White House to tell us we need to get back to sports. Nobody doesn't want to get back to sports but you you interviewed paul rabel the co-founder of the premier league who is a friend of louis swisher's um for your other podcast uh what what did he say he's amazing what a what a what a really impressive man he is yeah paul is uh first off paul is probably the greatest living athlete to be playing a sport right now he dominates lacrosse like there's no tomorrow. And he's also this very soulful, sensitive, nice man.

And he kind of – stereotypes are so dangerous. You meet some guy who looks like an Adonis and he's the top athlete. You're going to think he's going to be a jarhead, and then he starts talking about it. He calls you and says, I want to thank you for helping me get in touch with this specific emotion. And you're like, where are the cameras? He does do that. He's a total sweetheart. But what they did, the big unlock there, I thought it was genius, was they said, okay, rather than have regionally-based teams, let's have it be like a festival, Coachella, where your son, who's into lacrosse, can go see six matches, go to a clinic.

It just seemed to be economically smarter. It was very smart. And the audience, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that fan reaction isn't a huge part of lacrosse. So he's reopening or trying to reopen safely, but it's tough for him, right? Wrong time. This will be very interesting.

The pandemic is going to be an unforeseen wind in a lot of sails that we didn't see. It's going to reshape. It could initially reshape sports, but so much of this. I mean, I'm going on Anderson Cooper again on Thursday night. No, really? Anyways, but we're going to talk about education. I'm so excited for, like, he has a baby.

You guys could- Well, he might have a second. Just saying. Just saying. Yes, you would be the baby. Just saying. That would be hilarious. Anyway, so everyone is saying about universities, everyone wants to know the same thing.

Are they going to really reopen? And there's so much X factor around therapies and when we get this vaccine or if we ever get a vaccine that nobody knows. But I love that firms like Disney and Paul Rabel are saying- Thinking about it. Thinking about it. I'm going to try. I'm going to get based on the information I have right now. Well, it's new fresh things. Although looking at some of the pictures this weekend, people are not doing new fresh things. They're doing the old dangerous things like at beaches and things like that.

And so I think taking a fresh look at things and how to do it in a new way is a great idea. I think just running amok is really a problem. Cats living with dogs. Most of the doctors I talked to were like, oh, God, just getting ready for the fall,

you know, set up. Okay, we're going to take a quick break and we're going to talk about more openings about the New York Stock Exchange plan to get back open and a friend of Pivot

on Facebook's work from home plans. We'll be back after this. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content We'll be back after this. hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion. It's mind-blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of scam centers all around the world. These are very savvy business people.

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Clawed is a great way to save time and money. Plus, you can rest assured knowing that Anthropic built Clawed with an emphasis on safety. Welcome back. The New York Stock Exchange is opening back up floor trading this week. A quarter of traders will be coming back with all sorts of new guidelines and protections. Floor traders aren't employees of the New York Stock Exchange, but different Wall Street firms and banks that will have to sign this liability waivers that acknowledge that returning to work could result in, quote, contracting COVID-19, respiratory failure, death, and transmitting COVID-19 to family or household members and others who may suffer from those effects. I don't know.

I've been to the New York Stock Exchange. I think it's largely useless. It's kind of a backdrop for CNBC is why I'm always there. That's exactly right. You stole my thunder. It's also a very tight, weird place. It's such a tight, weird place. I would not go in there.

I'm not going back there ever, I don't think. What do you think about this? No, you're exactly right. I was going to say, it's no longer a trading exchange. It's the live studio audience for CNBC. It's very majestic. It's interesting. The guys in the blue suits, I really don't know how it serves any practical purpose when

you have the NASDAQ. People say there's certain nuanced IPOs. There's half as many publicly traded stocks as there were 20 or 30 years ago. It feels like an anachronism. It feels like this will probably speed the future. And that thing is going to become, like you said, a backdrop to media companies, but even the media companies aren't returning. So, you know, Jim Cramer's like, well, that's really nice. But Carl Quinn is like, there's no fucking way I'm going back. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. They use it a lot when you're there for tourists.

You know, they'll come in and they take a picture near the bell. They have this little set. Like, speaking of Disney parks, it's like that. Yeah, that's right. It's tourism. You go there and you pretend you ring the bell, but it's not even where the bell is. And so that has got to be done. And it's also, it's right down there, you know, right down there on Wall Street, and there's so much security now, obviously.

It's really a deeply difficult experience for people. So I'm not sure why, except for perceptible things were open in the exchange, I guess. I don't know. It's largely a show that I can tell at this point. But let's talk about the real thing is companies IPO-ing. show that I can tell at this point. But let's talk about the real thing is companies IPOing. When I talked to Brian Chesky, he actually talked about definitely, he was thinking about next year and he even mentioned 2020. How do you see the idea of IPOing, where that's going to go? I think this next class of companies that comes out is going to be one of the best performing

IPO classes of the last decade. Who are they? Oh, gosh. I'll give you one. Lemonade, the insurance disruptor. Airbnb will be enormous. I think there are companies that are going to come out of this so strong that, if you will, the downturn, the deceleration gave them the opportunity. I don't want to call it shed dead wood, but basically get in fighting shape, cut costs like crazy, come back. Their profits will be stronger. A lot of these companies have laid off 20, 30% of their staff. Their revenues are going to return. They'll hire back 5% of those people and their profitability is going to skyrocket. And they're going to come into this either through a direct listing or if they want it to be a branding event, they'll pay Goldman and J.P. Morgan 7% not to market their securities to their own crony, corrupt institutional investors who they price

the stock too low, thereby diluting the pre-existing shareholders such that they can feed their old white guy network with bullshit discounts on stocks. But basically, you're paying them 7% of proceeds. That was one paragraph. That was without punctuation. But this is what it is. It's a corrupt thing, but you're paying them 7% of proceeds for a branding event

because Goldman and JP Morgan are great brands themselves. And it's like, this movie is brought to you by Disney. So it says, okay, this is probably a, if Goldman is bringing you public, it means that, other than We a, if Goldman's bringing you public, it means that, you know, other than WeWork, of course, it means that, it means this company is probably, you know, pretty blue chip. So you're going to see, I think you're going to see the companies that return, they're going to look like growth companies, but they're going to be growing 30% off of numbers are lapping, not 11.

So I think these companies are really excited. I think you're going to see some monster IPS. There's so much money on the sidelines. Brian talked about a direct listing. I think he was saying that. It was interesting, the story he told, he was preparing the S-1, he was reading it when he started to hear about the problems in China that they were starting to happen. So he was ready to drop the S-1 on March 31st, I think, something like that. And then, of course, pulled it back. And now he's got to change all the numbers. But he was saying direct listing was the way they were going. And it would be interesting when companies like that can put their foot into the market. I think

that's the intent. And you're right, they do have to cut. They've cut a lot of things. I know Brian said he had 101 projects or something like that, and he cut 70 or 80 of them, even though some of them were quite interesting, like their transportation one around planes and some others. He either put them on hold or he got rid of them altogether and had to let go of staff. And so you're right. He was saying how it sort of gave him the clearest vision of what the company is despite having to do this and being on a roll because they were cash flow positive. They were doing really well. But it gave him a vision of exactly what the point of the company was and what to stick with and what not to stick with. Although at the same time, he was disappointed on some of the stuff I think he really was looking forward to innovating in, like plane travel. Yeah, it's going to be – it's just, I spoke to Aswath Damodaran and the basic general,

kind of the general party line among all analysts is that there's a disconnect between the markets and the economy. And Aswath Damodaran said, I'll take the market's view any day over, quote unquote, the experts. And what the market seems to be saying is that there's a concentration or there's a bifurcation where there's more capital flowing into the winners. And there are some big winners through the kind of the culling of the herd here, the elephants that survive when the rains come back, have more foliage and just boom, and are able to use this as cloud cover to cut costs, get leaner, get more profitable when the revenues return. And the NASDAQ, if you will, is so weighted towards the winners. I mean, right now it's becoming not the S&P 500, but it's becoming the S&P 500 or those five companies that are worth more than the bottom 400.

So the markets are basically saying, all right, we're the winner circle. And it's not a good thing. It's any sector, we take the best two or three companies and we've just made them stronger. So the few companies that are public or manage to stay public, you're talking really about the cream of the crop that are consolidating everything else. And that's what the market reflects in this notion. And you always said this, the markets don't reflect the economy. They don't really reflect America. So a couple of things. The good news is the markets, I think, there's a decent chance, at least what the market is telling us, are going to be fine, maybe even go up from here. The bad news is that doesn't reflect what's going on on Main Street.

Right, which is the ability to cut these jobs and whether they're going to get them back. the ability to cut these jobs and whether they're going to get them back. The inability to innovate with new, fresh ideas, we'll have to wait and see if capital really pours into the market in order to do that. But right now it is about consolidation more than anything. I think that'll hurt the markets, presumably. You know what is absolutely going to be

the biggest boost to profitability amongst big tech over the next five years? This work from home movement. It'll be used as an excuse to start cutting people's salaries. How interesting, because that's what we're going to be talking about in a minute with someone.

There's a segue from the dog. I'm learning. I'm learning. I'm learning. I should be on TV. With Anderson Cooper. Oh, God. With Anderson Cooper.

I can't believe he's having you on again. Oh, my God. That guy loves me. I've got to speak to him. That guy loves me. Anderson Cooper, if you're listening here, because I know you are now, that you love Scott Galloway. He loves the dog. Give me a call and we need to discuss it.

What are you talking about on Thursday? Stay away from him. Stay away from him. I'm with the cool kids now. Okay, Scott, enough of your troublemaking. Let's hear from a friend of Pivot about Facebook becoming a work-from-home company. Karen Marooney is a venture capitalist now, but she formerly was VP of Global Communications at Facebook. Welcome to Pivot, Karen, finally. Finally. Thank you, guys. Welcome, Karen.

So we have a lot to talk about. I know you're a PR person. You're gonna have to drop your care as a PR person and wariness and talk to us about everything. But let's first talk about Facebook's last week announced to employees that they could work from home permanently. Can you help us understand the strategy here? Yeah. I looked at this and I said, oh man, this could be as big as their shift to mobile, the way that they're thinking about this. I mean, it had the classic elements of, it was very much an everybody in Menlo Park. It had a center of the universe and they are completely changing that. And if you think about the gravity of that and the ripple effect that

we're going to see across the industry, I don't think we really have a sense of how big this can be. So when I looked at this, and I have no inside information, I looked at this like everybody else reading the press, I thought, oh man, Mark's moved from an optimist to a pragmatist. He clearly said, look, we're not going back to work until you know we know he said everybody can work from home through the rest of 2020 and then you look at all these other people that you need to hire and when he did the math and asked the employees about where they want to work and how they want to work he's already gotten himself to 50 so he like, I've already gotten to 50% of the workforce in five years if I do nothing, basically. So when I looked at this, I thought, God, okay, from an optimist to a pragmatist,

but a really big deal. It's a classic, you paint a big vision, right? Five to 10 years, half of our workforce can work remotely. And then you say, we're going to iterate and take steps, very, very Facebook. And then we're going to lay out all the details. And the details of this announcement, I think, are what really were the interesting part, that they have done all the work so every other company can follow along and say like, oh, okay, this might be the step for how we have a remote workforce. He laid out the blueprint for here's how you can take your employee base and start having them move towards more of a remote workforce. But it's a big, big change. Yeah, it is. Let me tell you, because he spent a lot of time talking over the last couple of years

about that headquarters with the garden on the roof, with the people who were going to live there and live and work. There were going to be apartments. You know, you had all these big architects come in to do things. You put restaurants in there. What, what, how do you, and you were PR, doing PR for all that. The idea that you're creating these beautiful workplaces in this section of, of, of Silicon Valley that had been, you know, had not been used in that way. And you created this big, giant Facebook campus. Yeah. No, it's a total... Think about how stunning, Carrie, you've been there. The campus is stunning. It has restaurants. It has laundry. It has a garden. You really feel like you're away. And if you think, it's not the only place to have done that, Salesforce has

the Salesforce tower. Apple has the spaceship. I mean, they're very much a sign of like these companies that they have a big headquarters that people feel attached to and sort of is a signature. I mean, they all say something different about the company. Facebook was this giant open floor plan. Casey Newton pointed out correctly that early on you could pay employees $15,000 just to move closer to headquarters. Because the thing that really bothered people about work was the commute. So the answer to people hating the commute was move them closer. I mean, think about that. Think about that hack in terms of instead of remote work, we're just going to move everybody closer. But think about this now. This isn't move people closer. This is let people work from anywhere, which is a really strong about face from where we were just even a year ago. So, Karen, I have a question. What would you say to the notion that this is nothing but an attempt to further reduce compensation of employees, because if you can move their job to Denver, you can move it to Bangalore, India, and we're going to end up in a situation where Facebook is now spreading the value of Airbus across fewer and

fewer people. I couldn't disagree more. Go on. I totally disagree with you. I think you're wrong. Your turn. The mic is yours. Why? Well, if you think about these tech companies, so many of the problems have been that they are in these specific hubs. They do not have enough of a diverse workforce, which has been a complaint for a really long time for a really good reason. And you have incredibly smart people trying to solve the problem of diversity. And one of the other side effects here is that you're creating this inequality of wealth in different places. backgrounds be able to apply for these jobs no matter where they are, it's going to open up an entirely new way and a new type of person who's able to get these incredibly good jobs. He got a lot of flack for that. Although you do that, you had done that before. If you lived in Denver, you got paid less than if you were in Silicon Valley. So tell me about, if you were there dealing with the flack that he got for that, because he really did. You know, he got an enormous amount of flack for saying we're going to pay you less depending on where you are.

Well, I'd like to imagine the flip side. Imagine if they didn't pay you less. And then anybody who worked at any of these companies could go live someplace, and it would be incredibly difficult for the rest of the surroundings to have somebody who was making all this money. So why I look at both of these. Do you think the guy who controls the company through two classes of share has shares your imagination around that? Or do you think he'll cut costs? We have done this. Well, Facebook, sorry, still have it. Facebook has changed the salaries of people who relocate for as long as I can remember.

And the thought was that it is in line with how much it costs to live in a specific area. And I mean, the way I think about it is the, what did George Will used to say? The four letter word that begins with F that you're not allowed to say in work or at home or to your kids is fair. You can say the other four-letter word as long as you want, but you can't say the word fair. I think if they had done either version of this, people would have cried no fair. So I think I look at this and I personally agree with the way it fell. But I think on either side, they would have gotten blasted. All right.

Speaking of that, we're going to talk about that in a minute, but what happens then to Silicon Valley? Like, they built this beautiful – what happens to that campus then? I mean, can I just now walk around up there and get smoothies by myself now? Can it become a park? Could it be? That's an image. I like that. Just Kara walking around.

Wandering around. It was one of those. The roof of Facebook. Well, could I tell the story of when you brought your son to Facebook Classic Campus? No, please don't. Please don't. He walked right up to Kevin Systrom and said, you should friend me. Do you remember that?

Yes, I do. He was terrified. He looked terrified. In any case, in any case, but what happens to these? What happens to these beautiful, like Google had its campus. You know, you've got Salesforce. You've got Apple. They spent a lot of time building these.

And so do people have to go now or do they can say no more of this? I think they're, from what I read, the stats also showed that a number of people are like, get me back there as soon as possible. I mean, I think some people will be really disappointed that they can't go back. Especially young people, right? It's where you meet your friends. It's social. It's really interesting. If you don't have school and you don't have work, where do you meet your spouse?

And I'm not saying that's the only place you meet them, but those are the two places people create relationships is at work and at school. And right now, everybody's, both are in question right now about whether you have a physical presence. I think what I read was Mark went out of his way to say, you know, in a very classic style, he'd done a lot of research. He'd talked to a lot of experts. He'd talked to a lot of people.

Then he sets out a grand vision and then you iterate. So I expect they'll iterate and learn. He called out specifically new grads because a lot of companies that are working remotely today say specifically, we won't hire people who don't have X years of experience. And in what I read, Mark said, we will hire, we have thousands of interns who come and eat all the food, and they will still bring them in, at least for a certain amount of time. So it sounded like the remote workforce initially would be people who are the new hires and people who fit a certain set of criteria, which included experience of years that you've already worked there.

Okay. I'm going to ask you one more general question before we finish. So one of the things we've talked about is the idea of redemption that companies like Facebook and others are having during this. What do you read on the PR strategy Big Tech will employ as the recovery continues? What would you be doing right now? Look, we're good. We weren't as bad as you thought.

What would you do? Because you went through the years of Facebook is ruining society. Yeah, I got to go through the up and the down. So I got to have both. I think I was listening, as I do, I listen to your show. And I loved how you guys were making fun of all the ads that had the little piano, tinkle, tinkle, tinkle, tinkle, tinkle. We're in it together. All hug, no matter who it was, there's something there. And it's true. It's not just tech. I think it's every company is maybe doing an overboard in terms of we're in this together. When I take a step back and I think about how we entered 2020, which is just even January, just think about TechLash felt really real. There was this big consensus that CEOs and founders were not to be trusted overall, not just in this. and there was a fear of big data.

And I think that seeing these companies come together, whether it was Google and Apple working on this or Facebook putting out data, it feels to me like a little bit of a shift because again, just, I used to hearken back to Silicon Valley. Remember that line that was like, I don't want to live in a world where someone else is making the world a better place better than we are? Remember that? It used to feel a little to me like that.

And now I think the need is so great that people and these companies are doing a better job of letting go of that and focusing more on the problem and the solution. So I think- Should they get a pass? Should they be able to be redeemed? Because there still is the election coming up. There's still all kinds of things. Should we say, oh, now they're good when they're now more powerful than ever, Karen? Facebook's at an all-time high. Well, I don't expect you or Scott to give anyone a pass ever. So I think that I feel confident in the no pass zone from loads of people. I think that there will be like everything stops and starts in goods and bads. And I don't think it is all bad or all good.

And we're going to have to keep the balance. You just said nothing. Thank you. That's why she's paid the big bucks. Used to be, used to be, used to be. Karen, talk about your new firm. What are some of the firms you're financing? What's the focus of your VC firm? So I'm a brand new general partner at a firm called Cotu. They've been investing in tech investments for over 25 years, and mostly on the public side, and then more recently on the growth side, and the newest

is on the venture side. So they've invested in companies like Snap and DoorDash and others, and I have yet to announce or to lead my first investment, but hopefully soon. I think this work from home thing might be big. Good. Congrats on that. All right, Karen. Thank you so much. Sorry to give you a hard time.

Sorry, not sorry. And we really appreciate your insights. I hadn't thought of it that way, actually, which is why you did get paid the big bucks at Facebook. Anyway, have a great day. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks, you guys. That was me on my best behavior, just so you know. You didn't bucks at Facebook. Anyway, have a great day. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks, you guys. That was me on my best behavior, just so you know. You didn't have to be.

Anyway, all right, Scott, we're going to take one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Support for this show comes from Constant Contact. You know what's not easy? Marketing. And when you're starting your small business, while you're so focused on the day-to-day, the personnel, and the finances, marketing is the last thing on your mind. But if customers don't know about you,

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Scott, there's so many going on today. I'm going to give just one, which is Jacinda Ardern, who I still continue to have a mad crush on, like the way you have a crush on Anderson Cooper. She was in the middle of an earthquake when she was doing a press conference or something, and she literally was like, oh, we're having a little shake. We're just having a bit of an earthquake here, Ryan. Quite a decent shake here.

Gangster, right? She was gangster. And she's still handling this crisis using data, using smart science and stuff like that in New Zealand. It's not as difficult a lift. There's only 5 million people there, as opposed to anywhere else. But I think she's sort of a great version of a leader that we can all look up to. Thank you. That's my win. Go for it. That's a nice one. My win is Governor Burgum. I think I'm saying that right. Governor Doug Burgum of North Dakota, Republican governor. I thought his press conference talking about the importance of masks and saying that this isn't a political issue, that if somebody is wearing a mask, maybe they're just trying to protect an immunocompromised child.

And he got emotional. I thought it was such a real moment, and it made me think, I'm so glad people like this run for office. And it just made me feel good about North Dakota, good about America, that there are people who, at the end of the day, are really trying. Their emotions are in the right place. And I thought this guy, he made everybody in the world kind of push the pause button on their bullshit ideologies and say, okay, here's a leader who's worried about people and is saying to people, masks just shouldn't be politicized. Yeah. And also, but he said it in a way that was, I think, incredibly kind, even to the people who were doing it. And he was like, this isn't the North Dakota empathy, whatever. It just is so weird that people would object to a mask. I mean,

really, if someone wants to wear a mask, let them wear their mask. I don't know what to say. And not wearing it is a sign that you don't think more carefully about the people you might infect. And so, you know, they're going to argue the science of it and everything else and say it's, you know, don't tread on me. I don't have to wear it if I don't want to. But it's just, as he characterized, it's a very selfish attitude. And it's not, this is going to be a phase that is going to end.

And to make it better, it would be nice if you did that. And so I like that. I like that. And I've been introduced to a lot of GOP leaders who I think are great, like Mike DeWine. I mean, I'm not going to agree with him on a lot of stuff. I've looked at a lot of his other policies. But I got to say, I think he's conducted himself with leadership through a crisis. So it's nice to be able to see that the party is not just Trump,

like this party is not just Trump. And I'm hoping those voices will prevail over time. All right, your fail? I thought Joe Biden's interview on CNBC, I just think he needs to appoint a cabinet really fast and a vice president and start diversifying the portfolio. I just thought he came across as a 76-year-old man. You know, I know that's an ageist, terrible thing to say.

He just – I'm worried, Kara. I just think – I think Joe has lost a step, and I think we're in a state of denial. lost a step and I think we're in a state of denial. And some of these interviews, it feels to me that this is, he is a decent man. He has strong character. He surrounds himself with good people, which is check, check, check. These are three ginormously empty boxes on the other side of the aisle right now. But he needs to start, he needs to surround himself with competent people such that he can say, okay, maybe my knees aren't what they are, but I've got a great line,

I've got a great running back, I've got a great wide receiver, and this is a team sport. He needs to put the team on the field fast because it is, it just, these interviews are painful. I might point out Scott Galloway, Mr. Supporter First of Beto, who I said was going to flame,

and then Bloomberg, who I said was going to flame. You had this thing around Biden. He wasn't going to win. He wasn't going to win. I was like, I don't know. No, you're right. So I'm just saying. I just am like, I do not discount the decency of this man, which is clear.

He made a couple of errors. They were stupid. This thing he said about African-Americans was stupid. It's not that. You know what the thing? No, I think those are typical biases. Who gives a shit? I mean, compared to what Trump says, Trump is stand. It's not that. You know what the thing, the you aren't black, who gives a shit? I mean, compared to what Trump says,

Trump is stand, that's nothing. That's a speeding ticket in a house with double murder. No one's making the comparison between them, by the way. What I'm talking about, and no one wants to talk about this,

no one wants to talk about this, is Joe has lost a step and that shit doesn't get better as time goes on. And he needs to surround himself. I am pointing out that you were spectacularly wrong about all your political choices so far. Yeah, so far. So far.

All right, someday you're going to be right about this. All right, my fail, I think, you know, I worry about a lot of, I still worry about jobs. The Hertz rent-a-car bankruptcy was, you know, they of course were loaded. You're worried about Hertz going out of business? No, no, no, no, no, no. I know, they were loaded up with debt. They were loaded up with debt. There was no way to go.

And look, Enterprise had been running circles around companies like Hertz for a while. But I do worry about people's jobs. I still am like, you know, how are people going to recover their jobs? When you talk about the culling, you talk about it as a concept. But in reality, it affects people's lives in a way that is going to be profound. And I think it's really hard to see where that's going to go and where the pain is going to be. And I think we're going to not see it in the way that we should, or not focus on it in the way that we should. As you said, I think I get inspired by you in that regard, it's people, not companies. And so I think about the people working at these places and what's the choice you have.

You can't just like move on to another job. I think different people have an ability to find jobs quicker, and I think it's going to be really tough for a lot of people. Like that, I keep thinking, every time I read one of these, I go, oh, dear, it may be good for the corporations. It may be good for Wall Street. It may be good for a lot of things, but it sure ain't good for people. Well, if you make more than $100,000, 10% of you have been laid off. If you make less than $40,000, 40% have been laid off. I mean, this is, I mean, so I consult to, or I used to consult to a lot of big multinationals and one of the heads of one of these European, and I know I'm sounding very cryptic right now, but I don't want to speak out of school. And they're predicting,

they've talked to a bunch of experts and they're predicting social unrest in the US. Yes. Yeah. And I thought, geez, do you really think there's going to be social unrest? It's like, oh yeah, we think that people, we're kicking, you guys are kicking the can down the road in time for the, so both parties can pose for the cameras for November elections. But if you look at unemployment, if you look at how vulnerable your population is, you are headed towards social unrest. And I thought, wow, that is really – and these are not reactionary. No, I am – when I say this and I give sometimes speeches and I said something that I had heard from someone, I don't remember it was, is you're either going to, you're either going to deal with this issue around now

jobs, but at the time it was income inequality, or you're going to armor plate your Tesla. So which do you want? And so I think that to me, I just have this nagging feeling of real problems coming up in terms of that. And whoever inherits the White, gets the, inherits the White House, wins the White House, it's going to be one tough job. It's going to be one tough job. And I worry. I worry about anybody having to deal with it. But especially when we're highly partisan, we're arguing about freaking masks. It's insane. Let's have the governors. Let's go happy. Tell me something happy. I'm going to do something happy. You go first. Happy. What's happy? What's happy? Oh, my children are still wonderful.

I do not want to drive them in a minivan in the pool. That's one cute baby. That's one cute baby. That is one cute baby. Oh, my goodness. That baby's a cutie. I just, also my sons are really, really, they've proven to, you know, they're really handling this really well. I, you know, there's moments of boredom, moments of like, ah, this sucks. And,

and they've handled it very maturely. I'm very, very happy to, to have such nice children. Okay. Yours. That is nice. That is nice. So mine is, um, I've been, I talked about it last week. I was really moved by, uh, uh, Marianne Castro, Senator Glenn's, Glenn's wife passing away at the age of 100 from COVID-19, suffered with a real stutter. And I went back to her obituary for the second time. And I love what John Glenn said when he was asked about what it was like to be with a or have a wife with a severe stutter during a presidential race. And he just said, you know, I just always, I just always loved her for who she was. I just loved her. And that was that. I remember thinking to myself, wouldn't it be nice to have those instincts? And when, when you know someone is deeply insecure about something that you, you express to them,

I just know who you are and I love you. And that's that. I thought that was such, this is a guy who orbited the earth for the first time. That's just such like a healthy instinct. Yeah. That relationship was always inspirational to me. Really nice. And she was quite something. She was – you know, I always – whenever she was – they wrote about her, I always would read about her.

I found her very – I thought he was always inspirational, but the two of them, I really was really. Really nice couple. Really nice couple, and it was nice. The Right Stuff, a great movie, a good movie to feel good about America. All right, why don't you watch that and The West Wing, and then you will feel better, Scott. There you go. President Martin Sheen will make you feel better. Before the civil unrest.

And go get a Glock. No, no Glocks. No Glocks, no Panzer divisions. There will be none of that, Scott Galloway. Unless I invade your beautiful Florida home, which I saw on a Zoom call, which made me laugh. Actually, tonight, I pretend I'm Germany. My wife dresses up as Poland, and I invade her. I invade her.

That's good World War II sex humor. No, no. You know, last week was George Conway. There is no Nazis. We will build an impenetrable Maginot Line. All right. And on that, we're going no Nazi. We will build an impenetrable Maginot Line. All right. And on that, we're going to go.

We are going. We are stopping this traffic accident right now. Anyway, don't forget if you have a story in the news, not about Nazis, and you're curious about it and want to hear our opinion on it, email us at pivot at voxmedia.com to be featured on this show. Scott, read us out

and try hard not to offend someone. Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Our executive producer is Erica Anderson. Our sound engineer is Fernando Finite. And special thanks

to Drew Burrows and Rebecca Castro. If you like what you heard, please download or subscribe. Find somebody who you think might be insecure about something and tell them that it's all about who they are and you just love them.

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