Pivot - Dow is Up, Santos is Out, and Guest Sixto Cancel

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Kara and Scott discuss the Dow's record highs and home ownership's new lows. Then, George Santos leaves Congress like a "Scandal in the Wind," while the Newsom/DeSantis debate was a circus of another kind. Plus, Google is accused of suppressing evidence, Nelson Peltz continues his Disney proxy battle, and "rizz" is the word of the year (Do Kara and Scott have it?!). Our Friend of Pivot is Sixto Cancel, the CEO and Founder of Think of Us, who's on a mission to revolutionize the country's child welfare system. Follow Sixto at @sixtocancel Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. How are you doing, Scott? What's going on?

I'm really good. I saw the cat at 10 Downing today. Well, I told you about the cat, and? Yeah. So how was the visit? They finally let you in? Yeah, they finally let me in. He'll probably not be in office for too much longer, but go ahead. Tell me about it. It was lovely. Actually, the people I met with have been in several administrations. They're kind of pros at what they do. Yeah, it was really nice. I love, you know, it's a nice moment. I got to go to the White House with Kara Swisher and I got to go see 10 Downing Street with a cat. And how was the cat?

The cat clearly runs the place. I guess the cat has been there since David Cameron. Yeah, been around a while. And is fat and happy. I think that cat lives a really good life. Yeah. Well, anyway, we've got a lot to do today. The Dow is hitting record highs, but so are home prices, which is problematic for some. George Santos gets expelled from Congress. And from creepy smiles to poop maps, we'll discuss the Ron DeSantis-Gavin Newsom debate, plus our friend of Pivot, Sixto Cancel, the CEO and co-founder of Think of Us, a nonprofit looking to revolutionize the child welfare system. It's a really interesting startup, mission-driven. But first, the OpenAI launch of the GPT store will be delayed until next year,

actually January. I actually spoke to the company. The store will allow people to distribute custom versions of ChatGPT. It was originally slated to be released last month, but obviously the crisis there changed things. And I think they wanted to slow it down a little bit and get everybody settled, given all the controversy. What do you think? It sounds like you know a lot more about this than me. So you go first. Yes. They're just delaying it because they want to get other things in line around safety and stuff like that. And they have that internal investigation that's going on and they just want to, it was a bit of contention with the previous board. So I think they're just going to slow it down just slightly,

but not very much. I think it's January or February. So it's not particularly slowing down. It's just that they have a lot on their plate to settle. And, you know, these kind of crises, even if it's finished and the company is still ongoing to come, you know, nobody's left the company apparently, which is good because there's a lot of people trying to hire away people from the company. So I think they're going to do this. I think it's important to have this custom versions of ChatGPT. They're already existing. You might as well have a platform for it. Yeah, that sounds right. I don't.

My only experience or the thing I've noticed was I, for fun, I wanted to chat GPT. I would task it. I would say, in the voice of Linda Iaccarino, make excuses for me killing a dog. And it came back with, we are not allowed to impersonate people. It is clearly, there's clearly like word out because it would have done that a few weeks ago. So they have dialed up the filter saying, now, especially I think when it comes to Linda and Elon, because I used to say, that's my favorite thing, in the voice of, write this.

And so there's clearly, I mean, at the end of the day, and I think this is one of the reasons we should rethink ChatGPT versus how we have regulated or approached Tag, this is a media company. They are making editorial decisions. Not just them, all of them. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. But if they are clearly making editorial decisions and saying, no, no, you can't ask for something in the voice of Linda Iaccarino.

Well, except there is now a Yak bot. I think I sent it to you. So people are making them. Yeah, it's a Y-A-C bot, something like that, using chat GPT technology. And so let people make things that they want. They're a platform. And they did. And it's very funny.

And so people can make whatever they want. They're a platform and they did, and it's very funny. And so people can make whatever they want. And of course it'll be subject to, can't be illegal or maybe tasteless. They may have some rules around it. I think they're going to run into the buzzsaw of what Apple does, which is trying to decide who gets on and who gets off, but it's their platform so they can decide it. And then they can charge. I don't know what the, what the big will be, but they'll, they'll be, they have to get into this business because someone else will and they'll dominate it. And so this is not a, I never thought this was a problem, but there was a problem with the board and the commercialization of this. But look, if they don't do it, guess who's going to Microsoft or Google or someone else.

So it's just as well that they do it and have the thing is, do they have the staff to maintain it? But it's important. You have to sort of be the store. I don't know. I just think you do. But they're not really delaying it, I'll be honest with you. That's not my impression. And based on your reporting, is everything sort of back to normal? Is it like that season of Dallas where they woke up and the previous season was a dream? You know, I'm going to visit them this week. I'm going to San Francisco tonight. dream? You know, I'm going to visit them this week. I'm going to San Francisco tonight.

And so I'm going to go visit, I think Mira Marotti is there. I don't know if Sam is there. He might be traveling. You're getting away from your kids. I've been there. I know. It's not a weekend. It's just Monday. Honey, I've got to go. Business calls. No, I'm going to visit. Business calls. I'm going to visit some people. I used to pull that shit. It's not shit. No, I've got to go to Cannes. I've got to to get a can. I hate it there. I'm also getting the house ready for the family for the holidays. And I have some people doing some work on my house. But I'm also going to see a couple of companies, which I'm excited about. I go to San Francisco every six weeks or so.

So there you have it. Yeah, you like it out there. Yes, I have a beautiful house and I love going there. So I think they'll be fine. I'll let you know once I go and I'll let you know how the mood is in the company. They have a very beautiful headquarters in San Francisco. Anyway, next one, Nelson Peltz is back for another proxy fight against Disney. You know, this guy keeps coming back. Now he's got Ike Perlmutter's shares. It looks like he can vote them. The move comes after the activist investor's request for a board

representation was rejected. They did add some new board members at Disney, but not Peltz's. Peltz's try-on partners, it doesn't hold $3 billion. It owns less. It just controls a bunch of others and said it would take its case directly to shareholders. A statement noted that shareholders have lost $70 billion of value since Disney was given the opportunity to right the ship last February. Where does this end? You like Nelson Peltz. He was a little disingenuous with the Wall Street Journal pretending he had more shares than he did, but he controls the guy who ran Marvel, who Bob Iger fired. Yeah, look, so first off, I got this wrong. I said that I thought that Nelson was going to get board seats. And I still think that would have been the smart thing to do

because this is going to be a distraction. And egos are involved now. Now it's a win-lose thing. And if Bob, I mean, this is typically what happens. So it's like an election. And the primary determinant of the outcome of this election at the annual meeting, where every share gets a vote, unless there's super voting shares, and I don't think that's the case with Disney, is that they also put up an alternative slate of directors, including probably him and two other people, and keep some directors. So he won't go for a control stake. He'll go for several board seats. And the thing that will determine how shareholders vote is essentially a function of the stock price. If Bob, since Nelson showed up or since Nelson started rattling the cage again,

the stock is up about 10% in the last month. It's experienced the updraft of the market. If the stock were to go down and hit new lows, Nelson might get some seats. These things almost never go to an election. What happens is you have a proxy solicitor who's out there almost like a pollster reading the tea leaves, and they go back to Bob or they go back to Nelson and they say, this is what's going to happen at the election. And then they negotiate before that. But Bob's basically said, pound sand. And in a kind of a prophylactic move, he's put on the board the CEO of Morgan Stanley, who elegantly managed his own succession. And he's put on the former CEO of Sky, who is obviously a media guy. So he's put on the former CEO of Sky, who

is obviously a media guy. So he's trying to say, this board from a governance domain expertise standpoint is bulletproof, and we don't need this guy. It's too bad they couldn't come to some sort of accommodation. Typically, what happens is you don't get, as someone who's run a bunch of activist campaigns, you typically don't get board seats at the first board meeting, you get them at the second. And that is you run, you try and get board seats, you don't get board seats at the first board meeting. You get them at the second. And that is you run, you try and get board seats, you don't get them. Because a guy like Bob Iger, he gets the benefit of the doubt. He has a track record and a history, and he's so smart and so smooth. He's such an outstanding executive that shareholders will give him some time to figure this out. So what likely happens is Pelts doesn't get the votes,

but if the stock doesn't recover in 2024, then Iger will go to Pelts, assuming all kinds of things can happen. If the stock runs up, Pelts just might take his winnings and leave. But if the stock continues to go down, he will show up again and Iger will say, let's not go to the board meeting. Nobody wants to actually have a vote. But typically what happens is you lose at the first and you win at the second if the stock keeps going down. Yeah, we'll see. They're being a little tough with him.

They did note, Disney did note, that 78% of shares claimed to be beneficially owned by Tryon or owned by former Marvel Entertainment chairman, Ike Perlmutter. As I said, Perlmutter was, quote, terminated from his employment by Disney earlier this year and has voiced long-staring personal agenda against Disney CEO Robert Iger,

which may be different than that of other shareholders. So they're entering that. It's a grudge, essentially. Oh, Cara, it gets ugly. I have had, when I ran a proxy fight to take back control of Red Envelope in 2000 and, shit, I don't know, I was three. And from, rested back from Mike Moritz in Sequoia Capital, all of a sudden I started hearing from old work colleagues and girlfriends. Like girlfriends

from like way back saying, someone just called me, asked me if they could talk to me about the relationship with you and if there was anything out of the ordinary and that they were from Kroll. Yeah. Oh, the investigations. And Kroll. Yeah. So they hired private investigators to try and dig up dirt on me. And you know that moment? I haven't been pulled over in a while, you know, since getting a meth.

Yeah. But you know that moment you look in your rearview mirror and you see those police flashing lights? And you like literally go, like that moment. Did you feel that? I remember feeling that way, like immediately trying to scan my entire history as private investigators. That you recall. Yeah, that I recall. The private investigators funded by the most successful VC firm in the world were trying to dig up dirt on me.

And I didn't hire a private investigator firm. I thought that was really a low blow. I thought that was totally uncalled for. That's what Peter Thiel didn't like about being involved with politics, all the digging around. You know, we'll see what happens here. You're right. It's going to get dirty. And Perlmutter has got a reputation, let's just say.

Yeah, but he owns the shares. He does own the shares. That're right. It's going to get dirty. And Perlmutter has got a reputation, let's just say. Yeah, but he owns the shares. He does own the shares. That's right. But the point is, he may just be in a grudge match versus what's good for shareholders. That's what they're trying to do. They did give a cash dividend of 30 cents per chair. They also did that. They haven't done that in three years. They're amending the bylaws about these nominations. I mean, I think they're going to hang tough with him. I think the Perlmutter thing is a problem for Bob Iger, you know, meaning he doesn't want to deal with, I think that him affiliated with Peltz brings Peltz, gives him a little harder thing. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. You're right. Bob's got to turn things around. He's got

to calm things down and get the numbers going the opposite direction. So that's what he's got to do. The stock goes up, he's fine. If it doesn't, he's in for a world of hurt. That's exactly right. Another thing is the judge overseeing the Epic versus Google case has vowed to investigate Google for suppressing evidence. There's a lot of evidence suppressing going on. I don't know if you saw this Joan Donovan

alleging that Harvard took a knee, took two knees, I guess, for meta. But it's these kind of things of the power of these tech companies is in the news a lot. Testimony in the trial has revealed that Google automatically deleted chats between employees all the way up to CEO Sundar Pichai. Pichai and other employees testified they did not change auto-delete settings after being told they had a legal obligation to preserve evidence. The judge called the actions a frontal assault on the Fair Administration of Justice. You know, Google used to have really bad emails,

as I recall, and I think they cleaned it up a while ago. They figured it out. But yeah, their judge is pretty pissed, but they want to auto-delete everything. Yeah, I mean, I think it's just good personal hygiene, quite frankly, good digital hygiene. It's something I've told my boys to delete everything. Wow. Okay. Well, there's just, young people are stupid. Feels a little sneaky.

I know, but they're stupid and you don't need digital, you know, no one should ever see a picture of your penis that you aren't about to divorce and give half your earnings away to. That's what I always say about my kids. What? Okay, go ahead. I don't know where I got from that. But you just don't, A, you should not do that. But B, people make, in a digital world, you just have to be really careful. Now, having said that, when a judge tells you that this is evidence and you're not supposed to be deleting it, I was disappointed that he didn't hit them harder. Well, he's not going to know what they deleted, right? They said they changed it after they had a legal obligation. But it seems to me that companies have a little more legal obligation

to save stuff, but maybe not. Well, but when the judge, my understanding is the judge gave them specific instructions. The first thing, my understanding of these suits is that the other side immediately gets the judge to issue an order saying, do not destroy any evidence. And the destruction of evidence is in itself a crime. That's correct. And my understanding is they were given this type of instruction. Do not delete any emails, text messages. And they did after getting that instruction from the bench.

You know, maybe they're not good at tech, Scott. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, this is a problem. I think it's a real problem. But they had a lot of tech companies had very messy email trails, as you recall. Mark Zuckerberg got sucked up into one. I think Microsoft did.

They've been much more careful with their communications, I've noticed, for many years now. Finally, the 2023 word of the year is Riz, at least agreed to Oxford University Press. I think the Miriam Webster did a different one. Anyway, I know you already know the definition, but I'll share it anyway. It's a slang for style, charm, or attractiveness, or the ability to attract a romantic or sexual partner. It's from charismaisma. That's where it's from. It was selected because it, quote, reflects the way social media has increased

the pace of language change exponentially. I think they were just trying to be on point, like trendy. I think Riz has passed, but I don't know. I would never use it in a sentence ever. Yeah, I like that. What do they say on SNL? If you have to look up what Riz means, it means you have none, bitch. You have none, bitch, yeah. Yeah, I like that. What do they say on SNL? If you have to look up what riz means, it means you have none, bitch. You have none, bitch.

Yeah. I love these. I think these word things are very funny. Do you like the word riz? Do you like the word riz? Do we have riz? I like it, yeah. I do like riz.

We have riz, don't you think? I mean, would we use it? In our own way, in our sort of like we're rich kind of way. That's basically where all our riz comes from. Oh, okay. All right, yeah. I think we're interesting. I think we have charisma. I think I'd like our risk comes from. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. I think we're interesting. I think we have charisma.

I think I'd like to stick with the original word, charisma. I think we have charisma. You don't think we have charisma? I think we do. I don't.

I think I brighten up a room by leaving it. Yeah, I think you have some charisma. You're famous. People like your power. Yeah, but why? Why me versus other people?

Is there alcohol involved? If there's alcohol involved, I'm ridiculously fucking charming. Rizzy. Rizzy. You're rizzy. Yeah. Anyway, it's an interesting word. I kind of kind of like this the fizz gives the dog rizz

yeah that was good what that was that just shows you don't have rizz oh no no no no no no no no few few makers and ginger daddy is funny crisp emotional affectionate i bring it no i bring it i don't know i'm a better version of me a little fucked up, Tara. You just haven't seen that stuff. Authentic is another word of the year. Authentic. Authentic? Yeah, that was, who put that one up? Merriam-Webster said the word authentic.

I don't like that word. I think anytime, that's one of those things, whenever anyone says they're authentic, that generally means they're not. Oh, right, yeah. I don't know. I think you're authentic. That feels weird to me.

I like that one better. I appreciate saying that. I give kudos to Merriam-Webster. Riz, I think they're just thirsty here. I think the Oxford people are thirsty. They're thirsty. Listen to you trying to force the Riz. I don't like that word.

I don't like the word thirsty. Someone said it to me the other night and I almost hit them. I just don't like that. They're too thirsty. I'm like, I don't like that word anymore. It's not very nice. It's not. Yeah, everyone says that when I post pictures of me without my shirt on.

You're thirsty. I don't like thirsty much. You're just embarrassed. I think let's stick to the old words, embarrassing. Anyway, let's get to our first big story. The U.S. stocks just had the best month this year with the Dow ending November on a 2023 high. The final day of November marked the Dow's highest close since January 2022. Fed Chairman Jerome Powell gave a strong indicator on Friday that officials are likely done raising rates, saying we're getting what we wanted. Now we have the ability to move carefully after running that party for a long.

I think I'd like you to talk to me about these numbers. Does it feel like we've turned a corner? Is it a temporary high? Do you think the Fed's done raising interest rates for the time being, as Powell suggests? I don't doubt he'd say it if that wasn't the case. Are they, this is gonna help Biden in 2024? All these questions and more.

Well, whether it helps Biden or not, it should, but it doesn't appear to be. So there's a difference between perception and reality. But the Dow, I mean, essentially, this is the S&P's fourth best month of the last decade and the second best November of the last 40 years. Nine in 10 S&P listed stocks gained in November. Coinbase, I mean, a lot of it was led by, and I hate to admit this, crypto. Coinbase is up 62%, bolstered by rallies in Bitcoin and Ether.

And the stock, I mean, check this out, Coinbase is up almost fourfold. And I think that's because FTX and Binance are going away. So they're kind of the last platform or exchange standing. Blox up 58%. The one that I was interested in is Expedia is up 43%. You had said that. You thought people, we'll get to housing in a second, but you said travel was going to be up. That was one of your predictions. But if anybody had said, okay, we're going to have a near record year, the first half of the year was the best year in the NASDAQ in 40 years. If anybody had said, we're going to experience unprecedented escalation in interest rates and stocks are going to rip. I mean, this really is

a random walk. And it goes to like, what's the takeaway here rather than trying to predict what will happen next year? The takeaway is, and I believe what Jack Bogle said, and Charlie Munger said this was lazy thinking, but I think the majority of people should adopt this line of thinking. Jack Bogle, who started Vanguard said, don't try to find the needle in the haystack, buy the whole haystack. said, don't try to find the needle in the haystack, buy the whole haystack. And that is, trying to time the market, and I would argue even picking stocks, is really a fool's errand. And the natural trajectory of the market over time, based on population and productivity growth,

is up. And it's impossible to pick which days you should be in the market, which stocks you should be in, which stocks you should sell, just buy them all at the lowest cost possible with ETFs and index funds, because no one would have predicted that these things were going to rip this year. Did anyone see Coinbase quadrupling this year? No, but it got so low. In the midst of people going to prison? Yeah. And of course, consensus among Wall Street strategists is that stocks will continue to gain in 2024, which means almost nothing, Kira. Because here's the thing, after studying the markets pretty

closely, starting at fixed income, the only thing I'm certain of is nobody knows. Nobody knows. My grandfather used to say that. When someone asked my grandfather for stock advice, he did pretty well in his life, but not educated. They go, is the stock market going to go up? Or he goes, or down. That's all he would say. There you go. Or down. Even bonds are up. I mean, we have, just going back to Biden not getting enough credit, they should etch Chairman Powell's face into- Mount Rushmore. Mount Rushmore.

I mean, this is literally the Goldilocks economy. Granted, we have massive income inequality, and we've made the conscious decision to take our spoils and shove it into old people and the top 1%. But it's a conscious decision in terms of the prosperity we're creating and the atmospherics.

We have robust growth. Markets are ripping. Oh, and inflation is crashing. It's like, well, what exactly would you want? Well, you know, the economy is not good according to voters.

Like, it's crazy. Individually, people are feeling price increases, et cetera. And here's why. Let me get to the next thing. One area where the numbers are not looking good is housing. Mortgage rates, on average, have gone up more than a full percentage point over the last 23 months, according to the National Association of Realtors. The average price of a home is also up. The affordability of homeownership for the average American is now at its lowest level since 2011. This is why I think people are unhappy. What do you make of this, Scott? A recent survey by Fannie

Mae found that 85% of Americans think it's a bad time to buy a home. The younger generation has to stretch themselves to buy or just accept they won't have a real estate asset. You've talked about this quite a bit. Explain what you mean. Buying a house has enormous economic and psychological benefits. I mean, do you remember the first house you bought? Yep, I do. And I'm going to guess that there was some sort of emotion or partnership and love that were inextricably linked to that home, no? I got a grandparent died and I had some money. And so I immediately bought a house with it. I

mean, an apartment, a condo, actually. It was in Washington, D.C. So I bought my first house as a means of saying, I want to build a life with someone. And we would on weekends go to Home Depot, and we would paint it together. And then we got a dog. And then we got married. It was like saying, it was part of a commitment to each other. And it's also a chance for young people to enter into what is arguably the best forced savings plan in America. And that is, you have to make that mortgage payment. You're irrationally fond of your house. You can lever up five to one. You can borrow sometimes 80%. It's tax advantage. It's been probably the best way on a risk-adjusted basis for people to build wealth. Now, what happens when you pass

a bunch of policies that cement value to the incumbents, specifically nimvious laws that don't provide the permitting needed to keep up with housing formation? People like you and me that already own homes do really well, but people trying to get into the market can't get in, and they get angry, and they start going online. And then these social media algorithms take their anger to a new level and they start blaming everybody despite the fact the economy is doing well. And here's the thing, our economy is doing great. It's our policies that are all fucked up. We had all sorts of programs for vets and young people and the Biden administration, to their credit, does have a number of programs to try and help first-time buyers. They recognize how disastrous this is. I actually like what these

VCs are doing on the West Coast, buying full cities, incorporating new cities. We need massive formation of new homes. Yeah. There have been a lot. I just was driving around D.C., and there's so many apartment buildings that are being built, were being built, and they're all for sale. Some of them are rental, of course, but it's just not enough. And obviously the idea of when you get near, you know, by 30, that you should be able to afford at least an apartment or something as you start to build your wealth. I think people are very put off by the interest rates, you know, getting a mortgage. Although that happened to me.

At the time I bought my house, it was a high interest rate environment, quite high. I feel like for some reason, 13% sticks in my head at the time. It was crazy. I remember when it went below 10 and my friend Lee Lotus called me and said, we should buy a house.

The interest rates were below 10%. 13. And then I renegotiated it down very soon after when they dropped, after they dropped. I kept negotiating. Now, just three and a half years later, the average price of a home is $420,000 and the average mortgage is 7%, meaning you got to make like $127,000. So, the percentage of people under the age of 40 that can make this investment, get on with their lives, start making financial and emotional connection to our society and to each other has been cut in half. Yeah, and then you're in the rental community and then you're subject to that. I mean, it is. It is a mental thing. And a lot of young people I know just don't feel like they can buy homes. They can't. And I'm trying to think what age I their late 40s. So we have, again, sequestered

another asset that reliably goes up that is tax advantaged to the incumbents, to people who already have money. Although people aren't moving either, because if you look around, you know, like, for example, I live in Washington, D.C. or in San Francisco, there's nothing on the market for sale. They can't move. Nothing's on the market, nothing that you would move to. The biggest unintended consequence of escalating interest rates 500 bps was essentially Chairman Powell accidentally, unknowingly, planted IEDs all over America. And that is no one can move because if they move, they have to give up their 3% mortgage. So it's basically ossified the market.

a 3% mortgage. So it's basically ossified the market. And then you have this nimbiest, non-permit granting local governments, and you just don't have supply. And what happens? People in their 20s feel discouraged and feel angry about America. And you don't blame them. Yeah, it was interesting that Trump was just saying, everyone gets a house and a car. It felt like very Oprah, but I thought that was actually a good message that he was doing. I'm going to make it so everyone gets a house and a car. Well, let's talk real numbers. I want to hear your numbers. When I got out of business school in 1992, I started my own business, but I was offered a consulting job and the total comp was going to be about 100K. And me and my girlfriend bought a home in Potrero Hill, I think it was 18th, anyways, near Farley's, that coffee shop, and we paid $285,000.

So, 2.85 an MBA salary. The average salary now at the Haas School of Business is call it round up to 200K. These kids are in huge demand. So, I have all these kids who work with me, who make a really good living. None of them can think about buying a house. None of them. Best investments I ever made were early investments in houses, I have to say. It's always been. And my house, I'm never selling it, but boy, has it gone up in price. And everyone's like, oh, San Francisco sucks.

I'm like, my house is still going. It's crazy. It's actually, you know. It saves people's asses. My mom bought a condo. We bought a condo in Westwood in, I think, 1972 for $72,000. And when she got cancer for the second time, I said, look, you got to retire. We can't, you got to stop working. And we didn't have any money, but you know what we had? We had

the condo in Westwood where she had paid the mortgage down to about $40,000, and it was worth $340,000. Without that $300,000, my mom would have had to have continued working in the midst of cancer. And it's a fantastic way for people to build wealth. And also, if you're a young person and you're handy, probably the lowest risk way to build wealth is to buy a place. If you have some skills, buy right, fix it up. And then every two years, you get a quarter of a million, or for a joint filing family, a half a million dollar tax deduction on any profits. And then wash, rinse, repeat, do that again. And a lot of people will tell stories of how they lost a lot of money in housing. If you can hold on and you don't over lever, it's a fantastic way to build wealth. And if you talk to retired people, a lot of them, the thing that kind of saved their

bacon was when they sold their house and moved to a lower cost neighborhood. Yeah, yeah. I'm renovating both my homes and doing renovations. Anyway, smaller ones in San Francisco because it already was renovated. But anyway, it's interesting. But people, it will cause great discontent for sure. And that's a problem for Biden for sure. All right.

Let's get on a quick break. And when we come back, the saga of George Santos. And we'll speak with friend of Pivot, Sixto Cancel, on his mission to reinvent child welfare. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank.

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Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Uncertainty. Self-doubt. Stressing about not knowing where to start. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Word art. Sorry, we have laugh lovers. In, knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Scott, we're back. George Santos is now the sixth lawmaker in U.S. history to be expelled from the House of Representatives. The House kicked out Santos on a bipartisan vote on Friday, with nearly half of the House Republicans voting to oust him.

The vote comes on the heels of a 56-page ethics committee report accusing Santos of all kinds of misconduct, which we're all aware of. He's also facing two federal indictments that cover some of this. Saturday Night Live's Bowen Yang had a field day with this, giving us a George Santos rendition of Candle in the Wind. He's been playing Santos for quite a few months. Let's listen.

And it seems to me that I live my life like an evil forest ghost. I'm the guy who lied even too much for Donald Trump. And you all got to laugh at me and I say, lucky you. My candle burned out long before I could flee to Peru. There you go.

I don't know what you think of this. Again, we've said he's the first member to be expelled without first being convicted of a federal crime or supporting the Confederacy. OK. A special election to fill his seat will likely happen in February. An HBO film on Santos is already in development, helmed by Frank Rich. Santos is now on Cameo, charging $150 a video as of this recording.

I got to say, I feel like they should have waited until he was convicted. I think he's a criminal and a thief. It felt a little, I can't believe I'm agreeing with some Republicans on this one that were against it. It felt like a little problematic to throw someone out of Congress before he was convicted. But that's just me. What do you think? I don't think they should have expelled him. What do you think?

I don't think they should have expelled him. One, because I'm a Democrat, and I thought he was like literally the best poster child we could have ever had for the Republican Party. But also, we might find his conduct abhorrent, but the laws are pretty explicit. There were six, there's been six people kicked out. Three of them were traitors in the Civil War. Unless you break a law, it's up to the voters to decide whether you get to go back or not. So I loved having him there. I think he was a fantastic reminder of what Republicans have literally come up with in terms of their elected representatives, although we do come up with good ones. I don't think he should have been expelled. I also think

we should have also given him some credit for being a World War I veteran. Although I am excited to see how he does as the new forward for the Denver Nuggets. Literally, the best comedy writers in the world couldn't have written it. He was spending campaign funds on OnlyFans and Botox. Yeah, I know. I don't know. Here's what I don't like. This is who we're talking about when there's really

serious problems. It's interesting because Mike Johnson, they didn't fall in line behind him. I don't think he cared. He told members to vote their conscience, but he called the vote to expel Santos a regrettable day, perhaps because it's even more of a razor thin majority in the House now. Probably a Democrat will take that spot. There's a very popular Democrat running for that seat who's already been that congressman who just retired. And that's how Santos got in. And of course, there was that Republican sweep of that area of Long Island. I used to live there. And I probably will be a Democrat going in there. I just feel like this is the guy where we're kind of focused on bread and circuses, that kind of thing, and not the real deal. But maybe,

I can't believe I sound like Mike Johnson here. Look, between congressmen threatening or between senators threatening to beat up people testifying, and now people, you know, this sort of abuse, it's just, there really is, I think we've got to do a better job. I always say at NYU, the top 20% of any school, they're just outstanding. The kids in the top quartile are just so impressive. It's like you feel like you're talking to a future senator. And I feel like when I meet some of the more impressive people in the Senate and the Congress, I'm just blown away by them. But I haven't had that much exposure except on TikTok to kind of what I'll call the bottom 10%.

And some of these people are just, they're crazy. Did those people exist? Maybe you can tell us because you're much older than me. Did we have people this crazy back in the 40s and 50s? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They just didn't have TikTok and Twitter. You know what I mean? They were privately crazy? They were privately crazy, and they kept them off to the side. Yes, there were plenty of crazy congresspeople. I did like some of the tweets. So, Amy Klobuchar, which you retweeted, you called her Klob, which was interesting. George Santos has been expelled.

If they can do this to a college volleyball star, world-famous Brazilian journalist, successful New York City financier, and noted producer of the Spider-Man musical. What hope is there for we mere mortals? Amy. People did have a field day. I love how he took to the floor in honor of Holocaust remembrance. I know. I mean, it was like, there was so much so wrong with it that it was hilarious. Well, we'll miss you, candle in the wind, but not really.

Go away. Now do Marjorie Taylor Greene. But another political story getting a lot of buzz is that of Gavin Newsom and Ron DeSantis debate, moderated by Sean Hannity late last week. On our last episode, I said I thought it was going to be good and not a silly circus in a rare term events. I was not entirely right. It was kind of a silly circus, including a poop map. Over the course of 90 minutes, the two governors sparred over the economy, crime, abortion,

access, and more with a lot of yelling and overtalk. Again, Rhonda Sandson has held up a map charting human feces in San Francisco. Did he do it himself? I don't know.

You know, Newsom ended the debate with this epic burn, though. Let's listen. There are profound differences tonight, and I look forward to engaging them,

but there's one thing in closing that we have in common is neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024. Oh, Gavin. He also has a better chance of being the Republican nominee, Gavin Newsom, than Ron DeSantis, I think, at this point. What did you think? I mean, a lot of people thought it was a little unfair and loaded with DeSantis and Hannity versus Newsom. I don't care. He knew that going in, and Newsom could take don't care. He knew that going in, and Newsom could take them both easily. The awkward smile was back. Can't he get that fix?

Honestly, he's going away, but honestly, that smile is weird. I would get lessons or something. But what did you think of this? It doesn't have any impact whatsoever. It's Jed Bush minus the charm. It's literally the day he launched his campaign was the best day of his campaign. He had a ton of money, all the like, not Trump, we need someone else. We like Trumpy weirdness, but we want someone who hides it better. This is our guy. He raised a shit ton of money and every week has been a bad week for him. And it wasn't a good idea to do this, but he's in a position where he has to go on Bill Maher. He has to, any chance for awareness or to score points, he has to start throwing Hail Marys. And Governor Newsom, the most impressive thing

about this was, I thought Governor Newsom's actually, I thought his strongest point, he said, Ron, I don't like how you diminish people. I don't like how you mock people. I thought that was very powerful. And also, the reality is, we're very luxe of species. I mean, you just want Governor Newsom standing next to Putin. I just think he looks fantastic. He's a tall, handsome man.

He really is. The thing I think that Newsom really benefits from and people appreciate, he went into the lion's den. He went into a debate hosted by Fox in the South. By Hannity. Where every question started with, let's talk about how much California sucks. And here's the thing, and I think the messaging for Governor Newsom. He wasn't putting up with that. Here's the messaging that I think gets Governor Newsom to presidency. I wish it were sooner, but at least in 2028 is I'm the president of the fourth largest nation in the world.

I have the largest military installations in the world. I have a border. I own technology. Two borders. I'm a multicultural democracy. I mean, multicultural democracy, we, I mean, there has never been anyone more prepared to be president of the biggest nation in the world than the president of the fourth biggest nation in the world. And by the way, distinctive you shitposting outside or shitposting California, I was reelected. Speaking of shitposting.

I was reelected by 62% of the people I govern. So clearly things aren't that bad here, folks. I think he's- It was good for him. It was good for him. The real, if we really wanted to have, if there was any way to have rank choice voting or, you know, what do they call it, final five or a better means of electing the best leaders, and the campaigns generally do suss out and wash out people. The real election here for America should be Nikki Haley versus Gavin Newsom. The two of them both are, in my opinion, both are ready, you know, stand ready to be president. And it's too bad we have, I mean, I'm hoping Governor Haley gets more momentum. But I thought, I think Governor Newsom has a lot of momentum to ride on

right now. Yeah, he's definitely in a good lane if something happens to Biden, for sure. He's definitely put himself in a good lane. And DeSantis did okay. It wasn't a disaster for him. I hate to be so superficial. Can't he fix his smile? It sounds dumb, but I'm like, this is like, it bothers you. I'm staring at it all the time. And I know I feel like an idiot for being concerned about it.

But I think I keep thinking it feels like he's like a cyborg or something. Yeah, but Kara, I'm just so fed up with women like you telling men like me to smile. I've just had it. Every president since Nixon has been likable. No, not Nixon wasn't that likable. Well, I said since Nixon. Since Nixon, yes, they have been. You're right.

But they've all been. You may not like W. Very likable. Likeable. You know,ixon yes they have been you're right but they've all been you may not like w very likable like you know jimmy i mean all of them george bush the first sort of likable but likable enough oh very likable like jumping out of planes and the education president very likable and his wife oh it's so likable and even donald Trump, you meet Donald Trump in person? He has Riz. He has Riz. They all have Riz. I got to give it to him. Get some Riz, Sir DeSantis. Definitely Newsom has Riz.

Anyway, let's bring on our friend of Pivot. Sixto Cancel is the CEO and founder of Think of Us, a nonprofit organization seeking to change child welfare systems across the country. Welcome, Sixto. So you founded Think of Us back in 2017 for very personal reasons. Talk us a little bit about your background in foster care and why you created this. to foster care when I was an 11 month old baby. And by the time I was nine, I was adopted, but it was a very abusive and racist adoption. So by 13, I found myself couch surfing and it took me having to record the abuse, literally strap a recorder to my chest and then finally got back in. And when I got back into foster care at 15, that's when I fell in love with how do we make the system better? Because I was really angry about the things that had happened to me. A big part of Think of Us is something called kinship care. What is that? So our nonprofit is focused on how do we transform the foster care system? And right now,

most children who come into foster care are coming in for neglect and they're placed with an unknown foster parent. And although we'll always need people to answer the calling to be a foster parent, the reality is that most young people can live with their actual extended family members. So what we've been working on is how might we help states actually create what's called kinship care to be able to go ahead and place that child with an actual extended family member. Three years ago, I was in New York City and I get a call from my sister and she tells me there's a family reunion. And I did not have like the prep time to go to a therapy session, but I still went over. And as I was walking through that park, you know, any one of those families could have been my family. But I finally arrived at the barbecue. And it was, words can't describe

the magical moment that it was, right? And as I was there, getting to know family, getting to know all these people who look like me, and mind you, I grew up my whole entire life in foster care, like me, and mind you, I grew up my whole entire life in foster care and always was told I didn't have family. There was this moment where this esoteric feeling just was ripped away from me because I realized that I had four uncles and aunts who had been fostering and adopting children longer than I had been alive. And so- Other children, not you. and so other children not you exactly other children who were unrelated to our family and yet when i and all i can do in that moment was pull out my cell phone and google maps to my last foster home and it was 58 miles away so here i was believing my entire life, I had no family. And yet, just 58 miles away, on my father's side, I have 23 uncles and aunts. I have aunts and uncles who have been foster adopted parents

for other children. And so you say the child welfare system in the country needs a major overhaul. I want to know what you think needs to happen. I know you've participated in lots of forums. I've seen you everywhere., discussions now with the Biden administration and Congress to get the message out. And the Biden administration did make some changes to the foster system in September, making it easier for family members to foster and also receive financial support. What are the couple of things you want to happen? I think, number one, we have to have a system that does everything in its power to keep families together. And so one of those things is like financing and having a prevention department that makes sure that the kids who are not being abused, can we serve them at home? Can we give them resources and programs? And if a child does have to come into the system, how is it that the states are making sure that they're placed in with extended family members. What the Biden administration was just able to do was unlock $3 billion over the next 10 years to be able to make sure that the same supports, the financial monthly support,

the healthcare that the child gets is also given to that extended family member when that child goes to live with them. And you're using technology. That's why I have you here. You're doing a combination of technology and advocacy. Talk about the technology element into what you're doing. Absolutely. I call it like simple tech for big impact. Like what we need is to understand what in the world is going on with children, with birth parents, with young parents. And so during the pandemic, one example that we did was we needed to tell Congress what was going on with foster youth who were aging out. And so we used text messages, a portal that we

created, and we were able to get responses from 27,000 current and former foster youth about what was happening to them. While the rest of the world was expected to shelter in place, foster youth were turning 18 or 21, and they were being dropped off at homeless shelters, despite the fact that we were supposed to stay home, right? And so we brought that to Congress. Congress passed $400 million to support former foster youth. And then there was a race for us to use technology and being able to build the portals, do the outreach, transfer data to each state about who needed it. And we helped 44 states actually implement their pandemic relief program for foster youth, and it was tech-based. Nice to meet you. So when you think of, and I apologize for the pedestrian or naivete in this question, when you think about foster homes, you feel this,

at least I do, you feel this sort of benign sensation that, oh, foster parents, they must be good people. They must be a nice, or not must be, but you generally start from a place of thinking that it's good people trying to do the right thing. Where does foster care kind of come off the tracks? This is obviously about the adults in the home in addition to the children. Are we putting kids in the wrong environment? What goes wrong here? until I left the system. I ended up aging out. And for some foster parents, I felt like they felt the calling to do this work. And you can tell that they were here to help you on your journey of healing and being parented. For some, it was about mutual survival, right? How do you do something, but also how do you make sure that you can survive financially? And so I saw that too. And then for others who were abusive, I feel like, you know, they're just hurting people who are trying to survive also.

So it's just a gamut of people who show up and get involved in fostering. So does that lend itself to more proactive recruitment of people who would make great foster parents? I remember going to Hershey, Pennsylvania and touring those homes. It's kind of an interesting model they have there. Explain what that is. Well, actually, my understanding is they do, Hershey, the initial signs are family of Hershey

had this vision to bring foster care, to use the proceeds from the Hershey Foundation to help foster kids. And they have these homes where my understanding is they live in a communal environment, kind of a man and a wife or a couple, and I think between six and a dozen kids, and they have a school there. And my understanding is it's been a pretty big success, and all of the profits, I think, from the Hershey Foundation go to that. I mean, it's sort of it's something out of a Hallmark movie. And again, I just saw it as a as a tourist.

But I'll get back to my question. Should we be proactively going out and trying to recruit people who have the markers for being great foster care? the markers for being great foster care? You know, absolutely. You see when these wonderful kids is one of the nation's gold standards in recruitment. And yet we have 109,000 young people who are waiting for adoption. We can't recruit our way out of this problem.

And the reality is, is that children fare better when they're placed with family members. Right now, children who are growing up in the foster care system experience PTSD two times more than Iraq war veterans. But when we look at children who are placed with family members, research is clear that there's less emotional trauma, there's better outcomes on education, employment, and so forth. A quick example is in Allegheny County in Pennsylvania, an organization called A Second Chance focuses on placing all of their foster youth with extended family. Their high school graduation rate is 95%. That is 10% higher than a national average.

So why doesn't that happen necessarily? Wouldn't that be the first thing is to find extended family members versus, so it's sort of like a foster industrial complex, right, that's been built up. And without a lot of, you know, given how much technology we have to monitor things, it's not monitored very well. that were built in the 1980s. In fact, right now, the federal government reimburses states for over $200 million in antiquated technologies that actually don't help you find family. When you do find family, there's a bureaucratic process. You got to make sure that there's 350 square feet per child. You got to make sure that pet pigs and pet dogs are vaccinated, right? Like there's all this bureaucracy that prevents people in a quick moment when you get that 2 a.m. call to say, hey, will you take your family member in?

What has just changed and what was just activated as of November 27th of this year is that states can create now a new process where extended family members don't have to go through so many bureaucratic hoops, but yet still prioritize the safety of that child to be able to take in that child. So early this year, you, Think of Us, received $47.5 million in funding over five years through

an audacious project, a collaborative funding initiative. What's the plan for the money to be used? Number one, to build a piece of technology called the lived experience engine, where we are collecting multiple sources of data so that then it is a tool that helps these states and advocates actually support their system reform efforts around keeping families together by preventing children from coming in, by making sure that those children who do need to be placed in foster care are placed with extended family members. Too many times states are making decisions but don't have the adequate data and information around them to understand what is their underground need. So a living engine, how does that manifest itself?

So we're still working on it. And the concept of our lived experience engine is that a lot of needs data would exist in there. So what is the level of need in a state for foster homes and extended family members to step up for kids who may have medical complex situations, different abilities, right? Like we need to know how many foster homes we should have. And right now, we just don't know enough about the problems that we're trying to solve unless we actually engage the people who are experiencing those problems and telling us what their needs are. What's the friction here? Is it legislation? Is it funding? Is it awareness? If you could solve one problem, what would it be? People's belief in family. The reality is,

is that there are people who believe if grandma didn't do well with her daughter, why would we give her her granddaughter? And humans and families are so much more complex than that. And then states were never designed to find family. And every single year, we have about 200,000 children who enter foster care. Only 34% are placed with an adult that they know or an extended family member. With data, they certainly could have known that they had already been approved by the foster system. Absolutely. People, you know, sometimes we know that technology, we can't tech our way out of many problems. But in this case, technology is a catalyst. Having the right information and the

right data is a catalyst to be able to have the right type of change. I'll share one last story here, which is five years ago, there was a three-year-old boy who lived in New York City. And the judge on a Friday evening had approved that child should be removed. The social worker goes back to her office, tries to log into this 1996 system that is antiquated, and unfortunately couldn't. IT was out of the building. On that Sunday, that boy was beaten to death. And imagine a world where we can track an Uber, we can get text message alerts,

but yet workers on the front line don't even have the tools to be able to get the information that they needed, which was an address, a name, and should they show up with the police to be able to make that removal happen. So every single day, what we have is a system that is suffering from its initial design, not enough tools for the people who are on the front lines to do their work, and it has a big implication.

And so that's why I think of us, we're co-designing solutions, using data, using technology, and really leveraging the lived experience of people to figure out how we should do these reforms. So let me ask you one final question. You have a technology background. Did you ever think of just working in technology just for yourself? You want to devote it to this? You could have lots of jobs. You know, there are many days where I feel like, yes, I should jump and just work in tech. But the reality is, is that, you know, I went through a lot as a child. And when you've been gifted to come out on the other side, I feel like there is that responsibility of being able to use those insights into how can the world be a better place. And so for me, it's so weird to have had the experience in child welfare, to be able to understand technology and be in that field, and then also be trained by a venture philanthropist

and what does it take to do systemic reform. So I feel like I'm called to this work. And if I did step away, God probably wouldn't be too happy about it. And so I lean into this. All right. Sixto, canceled. Thank you so much. Again, the organization is Think of Us. Thanks for your good work, Sixto. Thank you all. Scott, he's a great guy. I met him a while ago. I've wanted to talk to him and see. He could work at any tech organization that does this, which is really important. He's right. The lack of data is, it sounds dumb, but it's so antiquated. It's one of the many areas that is such an easy fix in many ways and that we don't, we just don't have the prioritization of it. Anyway. Okay, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month, every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at fizz.ca. Okay, Scott, I'm going to do wins and fails, but just a minute done da da dun da da dun dun dun dun dun oh your book's out this is the this is the that's the cover advanced proof yes what do you think how do i look great what do you think gosh only a short nine years later, you really whipped that one out.

I'm going to send you one. Do you want to read it? I want you to send me two. I want one signed. I'll throw a book party for you. Well, this is just the advance proof. I'll send you one signed that's the finished one. Because I still got to add in Elon's anti-Semitic stuff.

Don't forget that. I should have a little thing in the back here here that's like insert, insert, crazy shit. You should have a centerfold of just crazy Elon shit. Crazy Elon shit. There's a lot of pictures of him. But anyway, I think it looks good. Are you happy with it? Yes, I am.

I think it's good. I do, things are, I wish it was out now, actually. That's the, you know, it's February. It's weird how long it takes, isn't it? February 27th. And I'm like, just get it out now because it's so much good stuff in the news. So that's why I have to keep inserting stuff. We have one more chance, I think, I have another week to insert more stuff. But then if he does something like, I don't know what he could do, run for

president, who knows? I can't get it in there, which is irritating. He looks like the, did you see, I saw the pictures. He looks like the ghost of a drag racer that was killed in the 50s in that outfit. I think I said he looks like a lesbian who's given up, middle-aged lesbian who's given up. I can't say that. I cannot say that. I can. You're a middle-aged lesbian that's still trying.

You still got your riz. That has riz. You still got your riz. This has riz. Riz, riz is all over this. That is my win because I just because. Fail. I just have been doing a lot of foreign policy interviews today.

I interviewed Mark Esper. I interviewed Mike Gallagher today. He's the head of the China committee, former second, the one that was fired by Trump because he wouldn't— Impressive guy. He was. We went over a lot of foreign policy stuff. so slowly on all these different, you know, whether it's Taiwan and helping them get ready for what's probably inevitable with China, whether it's Ukraine. And I understand stalemates, but the slowness of our leadership is just starting to pay. And then Israel, it just,

I've done a lot of, and I'm going to interview Liz Cheney tomorrow, which of course, we'll be talking a lot about Trump. But I think the sense of urgency, I think that's the fail on lots of, including Trump, but Trump will be, Cheney is trying to have a sense of urgency of what a second Trump administration would mean. And so I just think our sense of urgency, we're failing to, we're sort of just like, as Cheney says, and I don't think she's being dramatic sleepwalking into autocracy dictatorship. And it sounds dramatic, but I don't think she is being dramatic. When people with the last name Cheney are the reasonable ones, you know, our country's kind of fallen. Yeah, you know, exactly, exactly.

So that's what I would say, the sense of urgency we need to have without being dramatic and hopeless. Like, what are we going to do about it? So anyway, your win and fail? So I had wins and fails around the economy and the stock market. I was inspired by what Sixto said. So this is neither a win or a fail, but it's indulgent. When I was – I grew up in Westwood, and my elementary school was all white. There was one black kid, Pierre Steele, whose father was a diplomat or

something. And then I went to Emerson Junior High, and they had just started busing and integration. And overnight, 400 kids from Compton and downtown LA were told that they were going to be on a bus for an hour each way. And I'd like to say it was a hallmark movie. It wasn't. We hated each other. We had black against white softball games. The faculty allowed that. It was violent. It was very unproductive. I think it created more prejudice than it solved. And the good news is by the time we got to high school, and this is an argument for busing, we were getting along and it was really wonderful. And my two closest friends through that entire period, junior high and high school, were Ronnie Drake, a black kid whose father was a minister who wasn't going to college unless he got a football scholarship. And I think

that kind of gave me some empathy. But my best friend was a kid named Brett Jarvis, who was a Mormon kid. And he and I hung out literally side by side for six years. And his family, and the reason six are kind of inspired it, I had sort of what I'll call foster parents light. And that was the Jarvis's. I literally hung out at their house. My mother was a single mother working in the Valley as a secretary. And I used to spend, they had family, they were a Mormon family. I mean, it was about God, it was about country, it was about success, it was about sports, and the God stuff never stuck with me, but all the rest did. And as a kid who didn't have a lot of parental supervision, didn't have a lot, quite frankly, going for me, I could have easily gone

down a pretty bad path. Yeah, not a lot of money. No, not. Yeah. The fact that I never tried alcohol until I got to college was probably a good idea given the lack of parental supervision and how bored I was. Anyways, the parents were Mr. and Mrs. Jarvis. I think it was Jan and George. Jan passed away five years ago. George passed away recently. And the brothers were Derek, the oldest brother, this kind of larger-than-life guy, just a real born leader, my friend Brett, and then their younger brother Doug. Brett and I, best friends. Doug, I ended up hiring at my first firm, Profit. They both went on,

Brett went on to Stanford, they both went on to graduate school at Kellogg. And the father passed away, long life, wonderful life, a month ago. And then on the way to the service, their oldest brother Derek collapsed and died. month ago. And then on the way to the service, their oldest brother, Derek, collapsed and died. Oh, wow. Wow. So sorry. It's okay. I'm good. You're good. You are good. See, so much, let me make a joke, so much has dropped into place now that I know you were raised Mormon, but go ahead.

I was. That's how you lose your virginity at 19, Kara. You hang out with Mormons. Anyways, this family had- Book of Mormon, Book of Scott. Go ahead. Anyways, my message to Brett and Doug. I'm very sorry. I'm sorry for their loss. Yeah. And to their family had such a profound positive impact on me. Well, I'm glad we had Sixto on today to talk about the issue, you know, and how we have to focus on things like that. There's lots of ways to foster people.

We were all raised by more people than you realize, you know. And I would agree. I think it's really important to have these impact. Anyway, Scott. That's why I love Mormons, Kara. You love those Mormons. I love those Mormons. Scott the Mormon never was not expecting that.

I have to say. I do love Mormons. So nice to me. So good to me. Such a positive influence. The God part didn't get traction, Kara. No, I get that. It didn't get traction.

Why not? God, we should go to church. Because I had my first kiss from Libby Pettit and nothing more, and I'm like, I need to find some horny Jews and Catholics in my life. Oh, okay. There's plenty of those. Oh, God. We're going to go to church, you and I, when we come to England. I like that.

We're going to go to church. I miss church. I just never bought into the lineage that there was an, when we come to England. I like that. We're going to go to church. I miss church. I just never bought into the lineage that there was an invisible friend in the house, but I like church. Yeah, me too. You know, every time I go by a church, I think, I need to go in there. And then I told that to Amanda. She's like, oh, no, are you going to become a part of the Christian? And I said, no, but there's a pull to it.

There's a pull towards a place of worship. Did you spend a lot of time in church growing up? Yes. I went to catechism until I was 13. We didn't go weekly, but we went, not infrequently. Well, that's impressive given what a sinner you are. I am. I went to Friday to whatever the class was, the Catholic class, and then was confirmed and did all that.

And then the minute I walked out of the church at 13, I hadn't been back since. I was very aware of all the problems there pretty early. Anyway, I didn't like it. I didn't like the whole setup. We're going to church. Going to church. We're going to church. Scott and I are going to go to church. The whole thing's going to fall down upon us, like as if we were Damien Oman 2 entering. Anyway, experiences like Scott and the six toes are really important to think about and the solutions that we can have. The ultimate expression of masculinity

is to take an irrational interest in the well-being of another child. Yep. And just take them into your own family. That is correct. Anyway, it's a good message for today. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech,

or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday with more. Read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Tata engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Neil Saverio, and Gannon McBain. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine. In Box Media, we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Derek Jarvis, rest in peace.