Pivot - Economic Protests, Social Media on Trial, and Big Tech Earnings

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

Can an economic strike send an effective message to the government? Kara and Scott discuss the ways people can use their wallets to protest, including a new resource from Scott himself — resistandunsubscribe.com. Plus, Kara is not impressed with Tim Cook’s call for de-escalation in Minnesota. Then, will landmark lawsuits over social media addiction lead to any lasting change? And the S&P 500 crosses the 7,000 mark for the first time, ahead of major Big Tech earnings from, Meta, Microsoft, and Tesla. Also, Kara’s new CNN show has a name: Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever! You can pre-order Vivian Tu’s book Well Endowed here. Listen to Networth and Chill here, or watch on YouTube here. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠. Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠. Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Before we do anything, I'd like to point out that as of this episode drops, It's been 42 days since the deadline passed for the DOJ to release all the Epstein files. Though we do have an update, DOJ officials said in a court filing this week that they expect to release the files, quote, in the near term, but they did not provide a specific date.

Pam Bondi, get on it. Anyway, Scott, after Sunday's bonus episode about the violence in Minnesota, we've gotten a mountain of responses to our discussion of the economic strike that you suggested. I know you're working on something and we'll talk about that in a minute, but first, here's what some of our listeners had to say. I'm seeing online some suggestions of people stop paying their income tax by updating their W2. I and many of my colleagues are watching with sadness, a lot of anxiety and anger at the escalating violence. And I keep wondering what if anything people outside the U.S. like me can do that's actually useful. Reportedly, Vanguard, BlackRock, and Fidelity hold half of the shares in two companies,

GEO Group and Core Civic, which run nearly 90% of ICE detention facilities. If investors divested from these collaborators and others, could that put a stop to ICE's worst abuses? And given a lot of you have been writing in, wondering what you can do personally, we asked financial educator Vivian 2, host of Networth and Chill,

to give some tips on how to make an impact. Let's hear what she had to say. Hey, Scott and Kara. Heard you guys were talking about an economic blackout. I've got a couple personal finance tips. For our friends with a lot of financial discipline, you could consider changing your W-4 withholding for your taxes. You'll pay fewer taxes throughout the year and then pay them all in one lump sum come tax time.

You're not going to get to pay fewer taxes overall, but why let the government hold your money and do stuff with it for longer than they need to? Make sure you are taking advantage of time value of money. Up next, everybody talks about shopping local versus corporate, but another thing you can do is pay in cash. These local businesses oftentimes might even give you a small. discount for doing so because then they have to give less up as well. Wink-wank. And last but not least, for the economic blackout, money that you aren't spending on buying stuff, make sure you're

putting towards a really smart strategic cause, things like paying down your debt so you aren't so heavily tied to financial institutions, but also causes that you care about that might support things like immigration or human rights. The main takeaway is this. Economic boycotts do not work if a small population stop spending cold turkey for one to two days. What we're actually going to need is a critical mass of people to scale back their consumerism over weeks and months. And even if they can only do it to 70 or 80 percent of their ability, that is going to have a bigger impact. Scott, you should know, Vivian's upcoming book is called Well Endowed. I thought you'd like that. There you. She did not interview me. She did not interview me. So tell me you, tell me what,

we talked about this that a lot of people were talking about it. Go for it. Well, last night, I was about to make love to my sweet, sweet lady. And, She put my penis in her hand and then it was dark out and she said, I'm sorry, I don't smoke. National Economic Strike. Yeah, you're stepping on your penis there, Scott. My bluff has been called here, and that is I think that America fills a lot of anxiety around its government not providing security and prosperity, but terror and anxiety. And I've thought a lot about this. And if you look at where Trump and the administration respond,

they don't respond from citizenry, co-equal branches of government, or even the Supreme Court. Where they do respond really crisply is from markets. And within 24 hours, he backed off of tariffs, annexing Greenland, pressure on interest rates, tariffs, when one thing has happened. The S&P has gone down or the bond market has started to get wobbly. So then the question becomes if that's the fastest blue line path to getting ice out of cities or to putting in more protocols or just flexing that we're watching,

the fastest way to do that, what you want is the most impact with the least amount of sacrifice from the citizenry. To make it easy. To make it easy. Yeah. And also maximum impact. Right. I think not buying groceries is not a lot of impact because these companies are very low

margin. They're not companies, CEOs that he listens to or cares about. So I bifurcated into two types of companies, what I call, ground zero. Big tech controls 40% of the S&P. They are growth companies that are very, very highly valued right now. So any, any slowdown in growth could potentially have a disastrous effect on them. So that's kind of the soft tissue of the economy right now and where our consumer economy, which is 70% consumer spending, could have the greatest impact with the least amount of effort. So I've listed a series of big tech companies and launching the site

probably on Sunday. What's it called? It's called, thank you for asking. It's called resist and unsubscribe. So if you like what we're saying, don't like and subscribe, resist and unsubscribe. I've also got the URL unsubscribe February. Because to Vivian's point, it can't be one day or a week. It has to be sustained.

And there has to be a viral component to it. So the companies in what I call Ground Zero are Amazon, and I have instructions on how to subscribe from Amazon Prime, Audible, Amazon Music, Prime Video, Anthropic, Apple. So you can pick what you want, right? Well, hopefully all. And not like that, I don't want to tell people what to do and what not to do. Right, exactly.

People have different means. People have different means and ideas on how they can participate. And I'm not going to tell anyone to not buy groceries or not show up for work. But if you want to have the biggest impact possible, I've tried to identify those companies. Disney, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, OpenAI, Uber, and Meta. And then you've given the argument why what they've done so you can decide what you think is acceptable or not. The reason why I really do think this idea is so powerful is you get a couple free gifts with purchase. Not only do you achieve the quote economic slowdown, but you have an outsized impact unsubscribing specifically from these companies that are driving the market right now.

Two, it just so happens that the majority of the CEOs of these companies have been especially sycophantic and played a really large role. in enabling all this bullshit, whether it's Tim Cook showing up and prostrating himself for the Melania documentary, whether it's Amazon green lighting a $30 million documentary that made no fucking sense, that was just pure grift or bribery, whether it's obviously meta, whether it's Sachin Adela sitting there and trying to communicate to people, I don't like it, but I'm going to continue to do it. I just want to remind everybody that back in the early 30s, Hitler's rise was largely enabled by corporate CEOs who, basically said, if you destroy our trade unions, we won't speak up against this democratic

slide into fascism. And once it got out of hand, it was too late for them to do anything. So we have been to this place before where people use the excuse of shareholder value to enable and basically not provide any friction to what is the type of terror and anxiety being levied. Can I ask you a question? Because I think a lot of people want to decide. Like, one of the things that's good is where Scott's going, I've seen some of it, is going to give you information to make your own decision. For example, with me, I got rid of arcade.

I got rid of the one thing. I got rid of a bunch of... But not buying an iPhone. Not buying an iPhone. Cancelling Apple Music, whatever. Yeah, whatever. But if you want to do that and keep Apple music, like, we don't judge you. It's just here's the tools, right?

Here's the tools. Stop doing Prime. Maybe if you don't want to cancel Prime completely, you can stop buying on it for, like, people should decide. People should decide what to do. And it's not forever, by the way. It's not, I shall never use it again, right? orange juice people still drink after the boycott of Anita Bryant. That's 100 years ago, kids. But that's what you're trying to get at, is giving people tools. Does it have links to where you

can do these things or just instructions? In the name of the company, all the different services you can unsubscribe to, a link to where you unsubscribe, the unsubscribe page, and a brief prescription of why we're doing this. So the ground zero is big tech companies. And also, the truth has a nice ring to it. I'm going from two LLMs to one. I don't need Anthropics. and Open AI. I'm going, and this is the one that hurts, I'm going from six streaming platforms to one. I'm not giving up on all streaming platforms,

but I'm going to pair it way back. And the free gift with purchase here, when you start looking at this stuff, I found out, for example, I have three HBO Max accounts. I didn't realize I had three. It's not a bad idea to take some time to think, where am I just spending money

every month, unbeknownst to me, where, quite frankly, I probably could pair back a little bit. So there's the ground zero. That's the big tech companies who will have an outsized impact on your absenteeism. By the way, the most radical act in a capitalist society, hands down, is non-participation. And then the second group of companies I list is called the Blast Zone. And these are companies that are directly working with ICE. AT&T, awarded 90 million to provide ICE with IT and network projects. Comcast, Charter Communications, Dell Technologies, Deloitte, FedEx, UPS. I list how you can

how you can leverage your economic muscle against them and how they are participating. You may decide that this is, you know, not for you or it's too big to give up, but I'm giving you a ton of options. There's ground zero, outsize impact, and then there's the blast zone. That is companies directly work on them,

and I want to be realistic. I am not going to give up telco, but I've switched to Noble mobile from AT&T. I'm going to go from five streaming media platforms to one. And I think you can have a lot of impact here. I'm trying to make it as social as possible and hope that people join in. But I think if we're looking for the lowest tax way on citizenry to get the administration to pay attention, it's about markets. It's not about ideology.

It's about math. And it's about not participating. And it's the easiest thing I could come up with to have an outsized impact. This is great. We get a lot of stuff about people not knowing what to do. and maybe they don't want to go to protest or fly to Minneapolis. If you don't want to do that or you don't want to just sit around on doom scroll and hacktivism, this is one of the many, many, many ways.

And I think it's great that you're doing this, Scott. Good for you. What streaming service did you keep? Oh, I can't say. But I was talking about we had a family, you know, one of those family meetings. I don't want to play favorites because I've already heard from some of the CEOs of these companies. Word is already out. And by the way, they're not thrilled about this.

No, they're not. I've gotten some questions about that. But that was the only, that was a really aha moment. We had a family meeting, and I said to my kids, we're going to cancel all streaming media platforms. And I literally got that look like, memo to self, smothered dad, and sleep. So I said, we can keep one. And it's only for February. Yeah. And there's a huge argument because one kicks into Premier League football, and that's Paramount Plus.

And the other's like, Paramount Plus, are you fucking high? I mean, it just caused a near-wrought. See, I had a discussion with one of my children about Apple Music. I'm still in the middle of the discussion about it. Oh, yeah. So they're like, okay, I'm off Apple Music, Amazon Music, but they're keeping Spotify. It was an interesting consumer preference. It came down to Netflix or HBO Max, with the two we distilled down to, and I won't tell you

which one we'd pay. All right, okay. But it's interesting to think about how you prioritize these things. I was surprised by the Bushback from one of my children. They're like, wait a minute, on my list. I was like, oh, you know, but anyway, you have those discussions. It's actually, then it ended up being a really interesting discussion about economic boy tots and what you can do. So it's a great opportunity to talk to your kids and your spouse or whoever about the economic choices you make in life in general.

Anyway, to be clear, the site isn't up today, but Scott will let us know over the next couple of days. And we will know activists around the country are calling for no work, no school, and no shopping today on Friday, January 30th, urging people to stop funding ICE. There'll be lots of activities like that. but not just Scott Galloway, the great economist, Scott Galloway, but Robert Rice is talking about this idea. It's really catching on the idea of it. And it's well beyond just a temporary thing. It's like, you take a minute and look at your life

and what you're putting your money, and your money is important. Anyway, I have an announcement now onto me. Guess what? We've named my show on CNN that is coming in the spring. I can't say the exact date. Well, it's called Kara Swisher wants to live forever. What do you think?

I think the tagline should be, oh, fuck. Isn't it really Caras Swisher wants to live forever? It is. It is. It's called Carra Swisher wants to live forever. But what if you have a stroke in the middle of the preview or something. It's brilliant, don't you think? That's what Amanda said. Amanda said that too. She's like, oh, well, then more people would watch it, right? I would, I think it should be, what if we live forever, question mark with Caras Swisher? I wouldn't make it.

Oh, well, it's already done. Done, done, done. Oh, well, then. I love it. I love it. Anyway, well, let me just say, let me just very briefly say, for far too long,

the longevity space has been captive. This is the idea behind it of rich tech bros, Jack, dude influencers, nonsense sellers of useless supplements, and some lady who sells candles that are named after her private parts. Sorry, Gronith, but you started it.

She's lovely, by the way. I know, I know you talk to her, but I'm taking, there's a new sheriff in town, after enduring endless conversations over the years How to Live Forever. I can't tell you how many dinner parties I've been in with Tech Bros telling me

all manner of things, none of whom are doctors. I want in, except I'm going to show you the way for the rest of us, it will be grounded in science and facts about the best and most affordable ways to say healthy, happy, and smart. Also, I took ketamine so you don't have to,

and Scott takes a nap in it, just so you know. That's what's coming for you. So a couple things. One, I think, I think the market was screaming for another person without medical training to tell us how to live our lives. Excellent. That's right.

I think that's what the market was telling us. But I talk to experts, unlike some of these people. I talk to experts. I talked to experts. But the second thing is an honest question. Say you're not. I'm all over this shit. Yeah, you are.

I now have too much money in too little time. I've never noticed that you like to focus on your health and beauty. I'm way too into this. And so the question I would have is. assume you're an average income household, you know, 80, 90 grand. Yeah. Maybe living in a city, maybe doing a little bit better than that. And you have insurance, but you don't have a ton of money to spend on the stuff.

What are the two or three biggest learnings around changes in lifestyle that you would recommend to just the average American? I'd be happy to. Just so, you know, it's only six episodes. Maybe we'll have another season because there's so much stuff out there. And there's so much bad stuff, by the way. I was hoping it was five. No. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Carous Fisher wants the only part of all! Yeah, Caris Fisher wants, everyone else wants this series to end. Anyway, that's okay. You can make fun of it. I love it. I would say, well, obviously, the main thing about longevity is don't be poor. Like, I hate to say that, but it matters a lot of... Well, that's good advice.

That's not going to make anyone feel bad. Okay, well, it's not, but I'm just... Longevity is now going up. Make more money. Longevity is... That's the same advice I've gotten from Arizona. Every girl I've met at the four seasons bar, make more money. So one of the main things, oddly enough, you know, sleep is important.

Obviously, diet and exercise are important. And there's lots of things, you know, that everybody understands fermented foods, stuff like that and eating. You know, the protein debate has gotten out of hand. Those are like around the edges of saving you minutes of your life. I think one of the things I took away was one. There's amazing stuff going on around cancer research using AI, cancer, and also. So mobility, like robotic stuff where people are going to be outfitted. And the addition of AI is going to change drug discovery, cancer research.

It's like astonishing. That is really gene editing. All that stuff is really moving fast. And that will make a big difference in longevity or at least health span, right, that you'll live longer and not die of these terrible diseases. The second one is the science part. GLP ones, Scott, I think you had one of the early people to this. But the benefits around just obesity is what kills a lot. I think it's a miracle drug.

It's a miracle drug. And every doctor we talked to talked about this. And it now has follow-on advantages. And so, you know, in very small amounts to. And that to me. Talk about microdosing. Right. Microdosing.

Right. I know a bunch of people who do microdosing GLP1. Yeah. I'm going to start doing that. Related to my stroke, actually, which is interesting. So anyway, so there's a lot of around GLP1 is really important. And vaccines and MRNA vaccines, I know they're controversial, but they're not. They're going to have a vaccine for cancer.

That kind of stuff is really amazing. But I have to tell you that abs, and there's all that other nonsense. The red lights, none of that works, really. Like some of the stuff you do doesn't work. But fine, whatever. Can I go through the stuff I do and you tell me what you think? Okay, I didn't do everything, so I may not have an answer, but go ahead. Testosterone therapy.

Probably good for you. This is that thing they did with Peter Atta. Red light, you don't. No. There's no scientific. Vitamin supplements. Some of them, some not. Like vitamin D, vitamin K, some of the super EPA stuff.

Yes, creatine, yes. Some of them ridiculous. I do creatine every day. Yeah, creatine is very good. What else? What about NAD, either infusions or the pills? Most people think there's no scientific yet. Yet.

Not to push them out. Not to push them out. But, you know, peptides is a big moment here. But unfortunately, a lot of people are using them ineffectively or dangerously. But is there evidence that peptides might have to be? We don't know yet. We don't know. Not yet.

Not yet. That's a lot of stuff. Like we'll see. It's just how you use it and how it's deployed. Like in the beginning of GLP-1s, a lot of people are getting shitty compounds and getting really sick, right? So don't do compounded, these things compounded. So it's a matter of one that is, keep going. Go ahead.

What else? Masturbation, great. Good for you. Cold sauna or cold plunges or salinas. Hot sauna, yes. Cold plunges. There's a lot. new science, right, may be really problematic on people, although I know all the bros love it,

but there's all these issues around the shock and different things. Hotson is absolutely. One of the things, let me tell you the number one thing, both scientifically and both causally and correlation, is friends and family. A hundred. I want to come back to that. So the next one, getting plowed by six hockey players and rethinking everything. Just rethinking everything, Kara. Is that good for my health or not? It's good for your health. Just be careful. Just rethinking.

But you mentioned the one thing, the only thing I went out, the absolute key to longevity, you just referenced it. Key to good health of longevity. Relationships. Relationships. 100. A million percent. And related to that is the use of social media and synthetic relationships.

The wrong way. Wrongly. Lack of friction for your brain, brain plasticity. Play games with people. different things. Talk to people you don't know. It has real health effects. Argue. You and I are going to live forever because of our relationship. You know, I'm just saying that's, it was really surprising the number one thing. And I'm not trying to be like all be friends. Talk to people you don't know. Do things that challenge you. Be involved in the community. The more you are in the

online space with synthetic relationships, the quicker you're going to die. Yeah. So anyway, go ahead. I interviewed Timothy Snyder yesterday, the guy is a protest expert. And we were talking about, and I challenged him. I said, are protests the new door knocking, and that is they're losing effectiveness? And he pushed back really solidly. He had a couple really strong points. He said, one, when people organize, it creates an infrastructure for other activities. He said, what's happened in Minneapolis, people organize, and then they get a database of people, they figure out how to communicate with each other, and they've been turning out on a dime to observe ice raids. And a lot of that is because the infrastructure that's been built through protest, and he also

said something very powerful, very simply said, you feel better when you do something with other people. And it was so simple, but so puncturing. You feel better when you do something with other people. Yep. And it's good for your health, as it turns out. It's very good for your health. And it's great to bring back community. And again, neuroplasticity. Anyway, moving on, we've got a lot to, any, we're very excited Scott's site. What's the name of it again? Resist and unsubscribe or unsubscribe February. If you like this idea, don't like and subscribe. Resist and unsubscribe. And also, please post, I'll be posting my receipts.

Ideas. Please post your own ideas, your own receipts. If you've unsubscribe from Amazon Prime for the month or whatever it might be, please post it to your social and try and drive people to the notion of resist and unsubscribe. Yes, you can do something. And mine is Caroswitcher wants to live forever. There you go. Only Megan Kelly thinks that's not a good thing.

Anyway, moving on. a lot to get to today, including big tech earnings and major social media trial is going on. So let's dig in. White House Borders are Tom Holman, he of the bagel money, just gave a presser in Minneapolis a little while ago, noting he's on the ground to, quote, regain law and order. It's, oh, Tom. Tom says he's made a lot of progress since he got there like three days ago. This follows Trump saying he would de-escalate a little bit earlier in the week, but the violence hasn't stopped. Representative Ilan Omar was attacked with an unknown substance at a town hall on Tuesday. It's the latest instance against a member of Congress, Representative Max

while Frost was physically assaulted at Sundance last week, and both are Democrats, just so you know, and quite more on the liberal end of everything. Meanwhile, the two federal agents who shot at Alex Freddie have been put on administrative leave. Border control commander Greg Bovino has left Minnesota, but Homeland Security Secretary Kristy Nome is hanging onto her job for now. There's a lot of pictures of her and a head of lettuce going on. Three-court, and there's a lot of infighting in the between and among all those people. Three quarters of House Democrats are backing her impeachment, and a couple of Republicans, a senator,

calling for ouster Tom Tell us, who's leaving, doesn't give a fuck anymore, is finally found his balls. What do you make of the changing of tact? And also note, Amy Klobizhar has just officially announced your bid for Minnesota governor. Your thoughts? Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that that Senator Klobster has been for governor.

I think that's a great idea. I think, you know, I've called this before, and I've been wrong. I do think this is a turning point. And when I was in high school, my mom gave me a bunch of John Irving books, you know, The World According to Garb. And they made me feel, they made me just feel a lot better about myself when I realized everyone else is fucked up and erotic and having weird thoughts.

And it had big impact on me. And one of the books that also had a big impact on me was George Orwell's 1984. I think in some ways it kind of might be the reason I kind of went down the progressive path. But there's a line in there. And I'll get it wrong, but it's basically, and the last act of the government was to ask us to ignore or deny what we saw and what we heard. That basically all of a sudden the government had gone to no longer trust your faculties of observation. It was the last and most important. There you go.

Thank you. And you always have to want to make. I'm just saying I read the book. Why does CARES switch on all of forever? Anyways. So. I can be with you. But that, yeah, there you go.

I'm going to stuff your corpse and have it next to me. Like, I'll just like a pop-in-top. I'm doing taxidermy? Yeah, I'm going to taxidermy. Go ahead. Go ahead. But that moment, that literally that quote just popped into my mind when Christy Noem or Secretary Nome got up, right?

We generally have these Judeo-Christian values, and I imagine there are also other religions. I don't mean to limit it. But it says, when someone dies, you don't desecrate them. And when she got up and was so disrespectful of Alex Prattie, and then also claimed he was a domestic terrorist. Yeah, that's really inaccurate too. And that he was there to massacre. He was brandishing a weapon and was there to massacre federal agents.

I think that was Stephen Miller. That was a moment where I thought, oh my gosh, I've never seen, I've seen people spend shit. I've seen people exaggerate. I've seen them lie. But I've never seen the administration feel confident that it could just look people in the eyes and say, you know, ignore your faculties of observation and trust, just believe what we say because we're saying it. That for me was, that felt very weird and chilling. And like a turning point.

And I think if you look to Americans credit, the majority of people and a lot more Republicans have said, okay, this has just gone too far. And you know how far it's gone when all of a sudden, when all of a sudden a guy who took $50,000 in a brown lunch bag feels like the adult in the room. He does. People are relieved that he's. I know. When he said regain law and order, I actually think he's probably talking about the cops themselves or these border patrol people with the masks. Let me just say I had a very interesting discussion with my mom, of course. I've turned her to CNN because she decided Caitlin Collins dress as well and she likes it and thinks she's adorable. I think that's a good reason to watch these people. I'm fine with it. So one of the things that was interesting is she did not like those things, you know, that. And one of the things that bothered her was the meanness. It was, I don't know my mother could be very mean. She didn't love it. And one of the things I'll tell you is she zeroed on none of the masks. Why are they wearing masks?

And I said, no, police don't wear masks. That was the first tell you judges that put away cartel. Yeah. She was asking a question, you know, and I was like, well, because they're private police and they want to hide. And she's like, well, they're worried about people knowing who they are. I said, yes, because of the things they're doing. And so it was an interesting conversation. Well, it's, I mean, think about how ironic it is.

We're now deploying and coordinating unbelievable firepower and assets in Iran or in the Gulf, claiming that, okay, we need to do something because the government is executing people in the street. Well, our government is executing people on the street. So that irony, granted, it's not on the same scale, but that irony is not lost on. No, no. Let me point some of me out. They're headed to Ohio to do this with Haitians. They're not stopping.

They raided an election site to try to pretend that the election was stolen in Georgia, very dangerous. They're going to do this thing in Ohio. These people aren't going to stop. I know we're like, oh, finally we've got him. This guy, finally we never get him. Whoever's controlling him, and I think he's not, from what I understand, he doesn't work very much during the day. Someone high up in the Trump administration told me he works five hours a day. So another 19 hours as someone else.

And so I think that they're going to keep going. They're going to go. They have Stephen Miller has no shame and they will go to Ohio. And J.D. Vance has talked about this. But I'd love to, when I think about this on a metal level, I think about the Trump administration of MAGA, a key philosophy or cornerstone, is that they believe if we could just turn back the clock and go back to 50s America where white people and males were largely in charge.

of everything, that this would be a better place. And they're just uncomfortable with the browning of America. They're uncomfortable with more progressive values. They're uncomfortable with women's rights. And they just want to take us back. And it's almost sort of poetic's the wrong word, but ironic. But look at the two famous, or, you know, Renee Good and Alex Pretty. So, okay, what do we have here?

I mean, it's just so, I don't know if you've noticed this. We have, and I don't want to be reduct. but I'm going to be really lovely gay parents and a male ICU nurse. It's almost as if they said, how do we find what represents the future and push back on it in the most heinous way possible? I mean, these two people in a lot of ways,

and ICE's ability to sniff out really good people, there was a story about Renee Good and her partner the day before circling the school block two or three times because their kid struggles with social anxiety and waving at the kid to make the kid feel more comfortable. The send-off, the video you found of Alex Preddy, I mean, these are really good. They're not only really good people, but in a weird way, I look at them and I think, that's the future of America, and that's what MAGA hates. Well, they will keep going. And let me just say, they do in particular, let's not take the focus. They have been targeting people of color,

like the immigrants who are hardworking, they're going for the Haitians now. The people they're trying to weed out are very hardworking. Well, I think this was accidental or not strategic. They didn't say go find a white ICU nurse. But doesn't it strike you as just very ironic and almost like out of a play kind of? It does. The picture that got me the most was that kid. I think his parents were with a five-year-old.

The five-year-old was just like his parents. or immigrants, and that got me the most. I have the hat and then the sitting. They're just, they're so inhuman that it's really, the visuals are quite something. Now, there have been visuals before, whether it was the attacks during the civil rights era, if you remember the dogs and the hoses on people of color down in the south.

And then there was, you know, the Vietnam photo of the girl running. I was just thinking of that. The corpse photo. moment. The one, the child dead on the beach. There's a lot of very strong imagery. Yeah, there's a lot. This is coming at you so hard.

That's what I was talking about this week is that. But speaking of photos and impact, Tim Cook is finally speaking out of Minnesota calling for de-escalation. Thanks, Tim. It's like as bland as the quinoa you enjoy. After facing a backlash for attending the White House, Melania premiere the same day as Alex Pretti is shooting. Cook noted an internal memo that he had a good conversation with the president where he shared his views.

Sam Altman also weighed in telling opening eyes that ICE was going too far, you think, though he said President Trump is a very strong leader, and I hope he'll rise to the moment in the country. Both of them had to compliment Trump and spent very little time talking about the victims, in fact, not at all. So very, I think, weak-sauce responses from, and Altman managed to get a slap in at Zuckerberg at some point in want to visit the statements. talk a little bit about this because it's, I'll tell you, internally at Apple, it's crazy. People are really furious, I can tell you that, from talking to lots of Apple employees and all levels of this company. And, you know, I think of all the companies, it's really interesting. Apple feels the most betrayal if you look online at least, and I know that doesn't represent everything. But it certainly is not a good look for him being standing next to Brett Ratner, who has its own issues.

And in a tuxedo at the white, just the whole thing. By the way, no one's ever going to see this Melania. One of the more enjoyable things is people showing pictures of theaters that sell zero tickets. Because Amazon, why aren't they more mad at Amazon who paid $40 million, spend $35 million to marketing this? And there were several Amazon executives at the event. But what do you think about this? I think we love Apple.

That's why, right? I guess. I don't know. I think Tim Cook is the new Bob Iger. and that is he's going to take an incredible career and put a giant, you know, shitstick at the end of it. There is an unfortunate but necessary lesson in life around the intersection between your participation in time and other people,

and that is the last five minutes of the most important five minutes. When you're at a party and you're leaving, do your best to be as fucking charming as possible and go around and say hi. There's that famous study where they're giving dudes, colonoscopies, and one is just 45 minutes, and the other is 50 minutes, but the last five minutes, they don't move it around, so it's not as uncomfortable. And the men who had the device inside of them for 50 minutes said it was much more pleasant, because all they remember is the last five minutes,

which was not that unpleasant. When you leave an organization, when you quit or you've been fired, you swallow everything, and you could not be more fucking charming, because that is how they will remember you. Shockingly, that's how I lead places, but go ahead. You think I go, how dare you? Or just on a more serious level. If you're getting divorced, do everything you can to be as gracious and generous as possible on the way out. Even if it means taking some lumps, being treated unfairly, this is, if you've been married five, 10, 40 years, everyone, your partner, their parents, your friends, your kids will remember who was the bigger person. And Tim Cook, unfortunately, he's been an amazing CEO. And I also, from everyone I know that knows him, including you, I don't know them,

they say he's a good man. But here's the thing. This will be this small period towards the end of his tenure where he shows up to the White House for a ridiculous premiere, where he says he can't wait to spend time with Melania, when he shows up with a handwritten disc drive in literal. just is a sycophant to the president. And then in a statement, adding the president. That's how he's going to be. Why did he even put that in?

Why could he just not this time? That to me, I was like, oh, come on. Leave that out, that one sentence. I just talk, what was, what did you call our relationship with Apple in that book when I met you? What was Apple? A lover or? Google is God.

You know, pray to it, ask it for an answer. It comes back with something. Amazon is your gut. Never consumption, you know, more for a love. Apple is your genitals. The billion people have iOS are the most attractive potential mates in the world. It's the most subtle way of saying

you should have sex with me. Well, I would argue more so. People love Apple. Incredible products. No, but they have a relationship with it, the whole think different. They have marketed to you in a values way, right? Privacy.

He's had a more shareholder value than any individual in history with the exception of Jensen Huang. And unfortunately, but I'm just saying people have, That's why? People are like, why do you attack Apple when meta is doing? I was like, because we don't like him. We like Apple. Well, this feels like more of a betrayal. Yes, that's what I mean. If there was one person who was going to stand up and say,

I have been a huge beneficiary of rule of law and the progress of rights in America. And Apple's been an enormous beneficiary of competition and rule of law. And what's going on here is directly contrary to everything that's given me incredible opportunities and created $4 trillion in shareholder value. We are not down with this. But instead, he's like, well, I'd love to hang out with Melania. Just make sure that we're exempt from those China, those pesky China tariffs. And de-escalate the word, this statement was such weak sauce. It was de-escalate.

Like, I also thought, and as Stephanie Ruhl actually correctly pointed out, it was bland. And the one from the Minneapolis commerce, it was like, let's de-s, let's all get along. I'm like, there's a side here, and it's not with the police at this moment, or not the police. The police are doing great in Minneapolis. It's these thugs from, from, and they have given Tim Cook and the rest of tech a very easy way to say, how dare you talk about people like that, which you were just talking about Christyneum. They have gone to a ghoulish place. And one person who did speak out, let me just say, Finode Kozla went, distanced himself for something Keith Rboy was saying about the shooting, because Keith was wrong, as always. And he also got into a beef with Elon Musk, very public about racism, which I'm not surprised Vinod is like that.

But like it didn't cost Vinot anything to do that. And Van Gogh and I don't agree on lots of stuff, right? Sometimes he says, I'm like, are you kidding me? But like he was a person, right? And these statements by Cook and Sam Altman and the rest of them, they're not people. Stop acting like you're not people. And that's, like, having to throw in President Trump as a very strong leader, or I had a discussion with President Trump. How rich do you have to be that you can't?

What's the point of having all this money? What is the point of being this powerful and having to be such a, just a weak person and a weak moral person? That to me, I just don't understand. People ask me, like, what job is safe from AI? And I say, I personally think, if I were to bet on one job, it's only going to increase in importance. It's things around communication, strategic communications, investor relations, PR. And the two biggest communications mistakes of the last probably quarter happened in the last week. On a corporate level, whoever the fuck didn't literally body block Tim Cook from not only going to that dinner, but getting a picture with Brett Ratner.

And I'm not going to make a judgment on Brett Ratner's past. But please go read about it. But that's just not a good look to be at the Melania. premier taking, I mean, it's like any PR person who has any intelligence in Apple thought, okay, I'm about to get fired and I deserve to be fired. And then the second biggest communications mistake, a rookie move, was for the administration to create a talking point that, oh, you show up with a gun, you're looking for trouble at a protest. It's like, well, let me get this. When Kyle Rittenhouse shows up with an AR-15, he gets invited to the Republican convention. And also, the NRA came out and said,

look, and there's some data here. If you have the training that Alex Pretti had and you have a license to carry and conceal, and you've never committed so much as a misdemeanor, you're seven to 10 times less likely to commit a crime. There is something to the notion of safe, well-trained, registered, you know, carry laws. And for them to come out and say, anyone going to the protest is looking to get in trouble, it's like, okay, so you're denying people's right to protest. And you're saying that, oh, he was looking for, first amendment. And now you decide in one fell swoop to talk about violating the Second Amendment, claiming the people that have guns are looking for trouble and more deserving.

The entire Second Amendment is meant to prevent this. We need to arm as a citizenry in case tyranny takes over from the government. But that's not what he was even doing. He wasn't even brandishing. The word brandish, he was brett. I think Nome said that. He was brandishing a gun. He didn't brandish anything.

He never touched his gun. Brandished a cell phone, Christy. But that was just such a huge error on their part. Because quite frankly, when the NRA weighs in and says this is bullshit, it becomes a very bipartisan issue. Well, in any case, Tim Cook, bad show. Bad show all around. I think you should do an interview with Caroswisher and then see if you can make it through that. Anyway, let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, Big Tech goes to court over addictive products. I was guilty of multiple skin care. crimes. Two counts of sleeping and makeup, one count of using disposable wipes. I knew my routine had to change. So I switched to Garnier-Missler water. It gently cleanses, perfectly removes makeup, and provides 24-hour hydration. Clear away the evidence with the number one Missler water worldwide by Garnier. Support for the show comes from tachyotry. If you're managing anxiety, depression, or ADHD, therapy might be only part of the answer. And if you've been stuck on a month's long wait list for that appointment with a psychiatrist or bouncing between

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This is a really interesting big tech trial taking place that we haven't really paid attention to. It's kicked off in L.A. this week where a plaintiff is suing meta, TikTok, Snap, and YouTube claiming personal injury through addictive products. The suit claims features like infinite scrolling and algorithm recommendations lead to compulsive use resulting in problems like depression and anxiety. Executives, including Mark Zuckerberg, are expected to testify,

with nine cases likely be heard. TikTok and Snap settled with the first place where the trial began. It's kind of a little bit of a big tobacco moment. And I know these trials, you never know where they're going to go, but really people have not been paying attention to this trial. And it's in an area you and I talk about a lot. And there's plenty of texts back and forth about obsession and addiction. And there's a lot of discovery here that should be really interested in these executives

talking about what they're doing, very similar to big, tobacco. Yeah, we know when they smoke it, they love it. Like, we know they're addicted, that kind of stuff. And so I think it should be a really relevant, I mean, we know they know this. And someone like Tristan Harris has been talking about it for years. I've been talking about it, you've been talking about it. You know, and now it's got to the dangers of suicide with young people, too. So any thoughts? We're going to look back on this era and decide that letting a 16-year-old on Snap or on Instagram or on TikTok is probably more harmful than if we'd let 16-year-old smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol. Six percent of teens qualify as being addicted to drugs or alcohol,

24 percent qualify as addicts to social media. And the heaviest users are twice as likely to have suicidal intent. They're also the group in the highest usage are more likely to express poor body image more than the lowest use group. The bottom line, this is, to say this is like kids smoking is unfair to tobacco. So when I, I mean, this is going to sound, I've said this, and I got a ton of shit for it a few years ago, and it was the first time I was featured on late on TV, not in good way. Oh, let's go it again. Let's say it again.

Go ahead. Well, I said, I'd rather give my 16-year-old a bottle of jack and some weed than a TikTok. Oh, no, I agree with you. But go ahead. And they played that and said that was so ridiculous. When I didn't, I hung out with a Mormon kid all through in a great athlete in high school, and neither of them drank. I actually think I could have benefited from easing into alcohol. Anyways, this social media, I've said this,

the thing we're going to regret most, we're going to look back and think, how did we let this happen to our kids? And even outside of hardcore addiction, I'm not exaggerating. 60%, maybe 70% of the family anxiety, my family registers, arguments between me and the kids,

arguments between the kids and their mother, arguments between me and their mother revolve around the fucking phone in social media. I feel you. I feel you, Scott. And when we leave our kid alone and we go on vacation and we're checking custodio and he calls us and he's not at school and we find out he was on social media all night and people say, well, that's bad parenting, you're in control. Yeah, that means you don't have kids. Exactly. If it's not a collective movement, if you take your kids, kid off a snap, he is then further depressed because he's ostracized because this is how these kids communicate with each other. It needs to be a collective action. There should be no synthetic relationships.

Speaking of collective actions. Can I add, I have to say one of the greatest moments of my parenting is when my son, without, but unbeknownst to me, used Amazon to order a box to put his phone in. Alex did it and lock it away to do his homework because it was distracting him. You know what I mean? Like he, this, when he was in high school, I was really proud of him. Like, he understood the issue easily. And one of the things that's really hard is, including for adults, I was at one work meeting. I made everyone put the phone in the middle of the table. It was very uncomfortable. I'm addicted. Let me be clear. I was like, put him in the middle. Don't touch them. Don't touch them. Like, oh, I have to. My kid, I'm like, it'll be fine. Nobody's, nobody's going to get an emergency. And if it is, I'm sorry in advance, but it probably isn't. Let's pay it to. We're going to pay attention to this trial because it's really important, but we're going to read out some of the texts and emails that these people know exactly what they're doing. And they relish it. They relish the hold they have on people.

They relish the hold they have on teens. And they are very aware, just like big tobacco, of what they're up to here. And no matter what they say in public. And so that will be stuff. We'll be doing dramatic readings of that. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk big tech earnings. A lot of us have spent a lot of the last week watching videos of what's happening on the streets of Minneapolis.

And understanding what it is that we're seeing, but also what's real and what isn't and what's AI. And who is taking these videos and how we're supposed to understand the source feels harder than ever. So this week on the Vergecast, we're talking about what's happening in Minneapolis, how information moves in an AI age, and what it means to make. make sense of it all. All that, plus what's new with the new TikTok, why everything feels like it's falling apart on TikTok, and more on the Vergecast wherever you get podcasts. Imagine there's no football. It's not easy, right? Football is by far the dominant force in American culture. It is the only thing propping up TV. And Chuck Closterman says, one day all of that is going to change. It's too big. Its tentacles are too far. It's so wide. And when it collapses,

that size collapses hard. I'm Peter Kafka, the host of channels the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And you can hear my conversation with Chuck Closterman right now, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Scott, we're back with more news. The S&P 500 crossed the 7,000 mark for the first time ever on Wednesday, ahead of major tech earnings. Tech, of course, fueled it. Let's walk quickly through the results. Matt have posted a strong quarter with fourth quarter sales up 24 percent year-over year.

That's really impressive. His AI spending spree continues with a. projected CAPEX of up to $135 billion in 2026. Probably a lot of that will be dedicated, hopefully, to advertising for them, because that's where they'll get the most bang for their buck. Microsoft also shows no sign of pulling back on AI, spending $37.5 billion on CAPEX in the latest quarter. 66% increase from last year.

The picture was less rosy for Tesla, which reported a 61% drop in net income for the quarter, down 46% of the year. The stock is still soaring, inexplicably. Tesla is also scrapping the model. Model S and X cars using the factory space to build robots. He's going all in on robots. One thing I say about him, when he goes for it, he goes for it.

And I've heard some of his robotic stuff is very impressive. But nonetheless, he's betting the farm on it again. It's investing about $2 billion in XAI. The combination of robotics and AI to me is really important. I've talked about this before. Also, there's layoffs at Amazon and related to AI and Pinterest, very large layoffs. They're all sort of using AI to cut. labor costs. What jumps out at you the most? Well, I think AI is going to add a lot of shareholder

value, but not where we think it's going to add the most value. I think the AI native companies are overvalued right now. I think the NVIDIA's Open AI, the anthropics of the world are probably overvalued. Where I do think you'll see an increase in shareholder value is the application of it specifically autonomous. I think Waymo is going to be a trillion dollar company on its own, targeting of ads and making the consumer experience better and creating a better advertising stack. I got to be honest. I think Instagram and threads get better every day. I think they're fantastic. I think the consumer experience and also... So does Gemini on Google, by the way. I've done a little poking around around how an advertiser. I just don't see why. I can't imagine

what it's like to be selling ads for MSNBC right now when the person from Meta, the person from or Google show up and show you what they can do. Oh, you're targeting kids who just got their driver's licenses in Montclair, New Jersey. No problem. We can reach them one at a time at scale. And with perfect ads that are healthy. Yeah, at the right moment, it ends up people want to buy life insurance at 7 p.m. right after, I mean, they just, anyways. So meta's earnings incredible, revenue up 24% year on year.

It's a big company. And only that, their employee base wasn't up 24%. I don't have the number, but I think it was barely up. And then the one that was down 6 or 7%, they were up 7%. The one that was down was Microsoft because Azure didn't lit up. Its cloud company didn't. It had growth of 39%, which still topped analyst expectations. But unfortunately, the new expectations is that you blow away expectations.

But still, Azure Cloud Computing, the demand is so great that Microsoft's backlog of commercial bookings were up 110% to $625 billion. There's some concerns about over-reliance on OpenAI, where it's a whopping 45% of this backlog is attributed to their quarter of a trillion-dollar agreement they made in October. And also, it's gross margins because the increase in CAPEX is the lowest. It's been in three years coming around 68%, which spook. some people. Tesla, I can't even begin to understand what the fuck is going on there. I think this stock should be down 90%. It's become a meme stock. It is. That's all. I suspect he's just

decided cars aren't the way to do it. And then he has some advantages in robotics. And several people who have called me and said, actually, he's doing a lot of really innovative stuff around robotics. It's just he's betting the farm on that everyone wants to have an optimist robot in their house, I guess. But, you know, he's, he's done it before. Like, that's the only thing I would say, but he hasn't shown. The other thing he's done before is say, we're going to land on Mars. He makes promises he never, his mouth makes promises he can't keep in reality. So the question is, like getting rid of, the model S and X cars were made by Rivian and Lucid and the Chinese, right? He's gotten out of this business. He's not in the car business anymore, it seems like. And so the

question is, can this robotics business meet the challenge? We'll see. Well, to be fair, they did beat expectations, but let's talk about what those expectations were. The revenues are down. Of all the companies we talk about, no one is down. You know, what? Matt is up 23%. And then overall, a horrific quarter, their operating margins, and that is the amount of money you get to hold on to, was 7.2% in last year, in the same quarter, this year. was down to 46%. That's a meltdown. The free cash flow decreased 30%.

Their gap, net income, decreased 61%. They realized they got a half a billion dollars in automotive regulatory credits that are going to be running out thanks to the big, beautiful bill. People still believe in him. They're giving him money for X-A-I. I think he's going to merge it into X-A-I,

like I keep saying. He's now using Tesla as kind of nutrition for X-A-I. They disclosed that Tesla invested $2 billion in Musk's company X-A-I. So this is, you know, and he needs a new vision, a new distraction. And as you said, he's gone all in an optimist, which I think is going to compete with the cyber truck and the Segway and the Palm is the biggest flops in history, or maybe the mixed reality headset.

The other thing that struck me was the layoffs in Amazon. Yeah. And Pinterest, by the way. 16. Yeah, but it's for different reasons. Pinterest is doing it because Pinterest is fucked and subscale. I like Pinterest. I like the people there.

It's subscale. It's going to have a very difficult time. Amazon laid off 16,000 people in their corporate workforce, which doesn't sound like a lot because I employ 1.6 million people, but the majority of those people are in their factories. This is probably close to 10% of their corporate staff. And this really is, I've said for a long time, that AI is corporate Ozempic. All these guys are going, you know, I mean, Amazon has said they're going to double their top line retail revenue in the next five to seven years without a single increase in the number of heads. count. That's AI. And then also, I think the place in Amazon's my big tech stock pick for 26, the collision, and you've references of AI industrialized robots, of which Amazon has a million industrialized robots and the total number of industrial robots in America outside of Amazon is 400,000. So they have gone just as Musk is going all in on robots, no fucking sense. Amazon, Jaffe and Bezos are going all in on AI-driven industrialized robots, which is champagne and cocaine.

But they were there before. They bought a company called Kiva many years ago. But just so, you know, recent Amazon layoffs plus October layoffs is 10% of the company. It's the pre-they had one. Oh, is it? Thank you. Yeah. But UPS got 30,000 jobs. I mean, these guys are. Industrial robotics. I interviewed David Solomon from Goldman Sachs on Prof.G. And he said, I mean, they're planning to grow the revenue substantially the next two or three years. Goldman's in a great spot right now, great leadership. They're doing well.

But he admitted employment will begin to flatten. You know, no CEO is going to come out in some. I'm going to reduce 10 or 20 percent of my workforce, right? They can't say that because then everyone, the best people start leaving. But what he did say is it's going to flatten. So what we're looking at here is. Flat is new up. Right.

But this takes their earnings and absolutely makes them go crazy. And then when these companies do well, everyone, you know, the S&P does well because the S&P is now kind of the S&P, you know, it's not the S&P 500, it's the S&B 10. Anyways, these companies on the whole continue to just be extraordinary. That is until this movement called Resist and Unsubscribe came along. Anyway, one more quick break. This is absolutely true. Corporate Ozempic. Take it away.

addictions. Did you know that Staples Professional can tailor a custom program to make running your business easy? With a Staples Professional account, you get one vendor, one delivery, and one invoice for all your must-haves, from tech to cleaning supplies, and dedicated support from Staples experts who guide you on everything, from product selection and ordering to payment. Join today at staplesprofessional.ca and get expert solutions tailored to your business. That was easy. Okay, Scott, I'm going to make one quick prediction, okay, if you don't mind. The Super Bowl is just a few weeks away and go Seahawks. But I've already have a prediction for the best ad. Lady Gaga, did you see that singing Mr. Rogers' beautiful day in your neighborhood in an ad for Redfin and Rocket

Mortgage? I don't really care about the ad, but they released a teaser clip and she sounds amazing singing. She got incredible voice. Oh, it's going to be the best ad. We'll talk about the ads later because that's always fun. That was not the prediction. I was a little bit. I was a expecting. It's very similar to mine, and that is we're about to engage in military strikes against Iran. So very similar predictions. Yeah, okay. Lady Gaga. It's just so strange that the Epstein files are now a distraction from it. It's like the behavior keeps getting more and more deprave that we have to come up with even. Someone said they're the safest thing in America is, are the Epstein files, but go ahead. No, I've made this prediction before and I'm just making it again. It feels like I follow this. I love this guy, the Geo-Hussar on TikTok. And there's all, I mean, I'm sole. I'm sole. I'm just fascinated with military equipment. And it just, it appears that all our assets are being coordinated in the Gulf for a pretty obvious reason. And I don't know if Trump is doing it for the right or the wrong reasons, maybe as a distraction.

But I think he absolutely loves the Tarzan Flex of leveraging the best organization in history, and that's the military. And it appears to me that they are absolutely, even the planes that are deploying to the area are like giant gas stations in the sky. I think Israel's on board because I think they think it would be good for their brand. So I think you're going to see a coordinated, some sort of coordinated strike in Iran in the next seven to 14 days. I think you're going to see a coordinated strike against Ohio or wherever they're going to attack the Haitians who are not eating the cats and dogs. That's where I think you're going to see the next strike. So you don't think they're going to pull back at all? No.

Yeah, you're probably right. Not these people. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show. We call 85551 pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin.

Ernie Endernernernery this episode, Manola Moreno edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Mia Savario, and Dan Chalon. Mishok Kouros, Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at NYMag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great weekend. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. As we step into a new year, it's a perfect time for all the financial advisors out there to think about how to set up your clients for success. One way to do that is to level up your fixed income strategy.

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