Pivot - End of Year Listener Mail Bag

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

In this episode, Kara and Scott dedicate a full show to the questions you've sent in! They answer questions on responsible gambling, the future of transportation, green energy investments, and more. They also reveal their favorite interviews over the past year, as well as their New Year's resolutions for 2022. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and reporting tools that get your marketing running seamlessly, all backed by their expert live customer support. It's time to get going and growing with Constant Contact today. Ready, set, grow. Go to ConstantContact.ca and start your free trial today. Go to ConstantContact.ca for your free trial. ConstantContact.ca. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. It's time for our end-of-year listener mailbag episode. You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman.

You've got mail. We've gotten lots of great questions this year, and today we're going to dig in and answer every one we can. Are you ready for it? Because you answered a lot of questions. And we have not heard these questions, right, Kara? No, we have not. We are going to hear them, and then we are going to react. It's authentic. It's clear. And so, we appreciate our listeners, and we'm glad they sent in great questions. They have sent in great questions. Anyway, let's kick it off with a question from Jason from Minneapolis.

It's about transportation. Let's play the tape. Hi, Scott and Kara. My name's Jason from Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'd like to get your thoughts on transportation, specifically urban mass transit. Do you see the future of transit in existing modes like light rail and buses, or do you envision disruption by companies like Uber and Lyft or even Tesla and Apple? It'd be great to hear your thoughts on this topic. Thanks so much. Wow, that's a really interesting question, Jason. He sounded like Amy Klobuchar, didn't he? Didn't Jason sound like Amy Klobuchar? That was not my first thought, that he sounded like a female senator.

That did not run through my mind. Why don't you start on this one? But I'm sure he's excited to hear that. I'm sure that that's, yeah. I love Amy Klobuchar. It's a compliment. I'm going to start now, actually. So, yes, I think it's not going to be existing.

I think it's going to get disruption, especially now that Mayor Pete is also from the Midwest, has tons and tons of money to spend. I do think there's going to be a lot of disruption, even though, you know, people joked about Elon Musk's boring company, the Move Traffic Underground. But, you know, I think there's a lot more promise there than people realize, I think. I think that we will be moving more to mass transit over time as cars become more autonomous and self-driving. I think people are, as I've written, ride-hailing apps do increase traffic, but I think it's a thing that's happened and it's moved along. So, I think there's going to be disruption. That's my feeling. Scott? Yeah, I think I agree with you. I'm fascinated by infrastructure investments. And I'm also fascinated by transportation and aviation. My father, before he left my mom for

his next wife, used to take me to the Orange County John Wayne Airport before there was even security. And you could walk out on the runway. And he used to put his hands over my ears and we would watch planes land and take off. And we would do a game where I would guess the plane. I'd be like, oh, that's a DC-9. That's a 737. Hold me, Kara. Hold me.

That is a lovely, that seems like a Hallmark movie waiting to be made. Isn't that nice? Yeah. Except for the leader. Before he moved in with a flight attendant from Continental Airlines. All right.

Well, then you have a good relationship with transportation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so I think that I'm super excited about innovation in transportation. You introduced me to someone I want to invest in. I want to invest in Boom because I think reattaching— Explain what Boom is.

Boom is supersonic, and that is the Concorde was a fantastic idea, but the technology wasn't there. The Concorde was a fantastic idea, but the technology wasn't there. And now because of technology and materials, fuselage engines, we might have economical, viable, efficient supersonic. And the idea of getting from New York to London in three and a half hours, I think that's a much bigger market than sending people up for seven minutes to the Carmen line for $400,000. Anyways, but more specifically to the question on urban transportation, something like 80% of all time spent commuting is on trips of eight miles or less. And the thing, I'm going to Bangkok over the holidays. I love Bangkok. I think it's an incredible city. Great city.

I'm taking my boys. And one of the really, I forget what it's called, but they train – they literally built a train line right down the middle of the city. And it transformed the city. And it created all sorts of economic growth and freed up all sorts of time. But the great unlocks economically and also from a societal standpoint are when you can save people a lot of time so they can spend more time with their families, spend more time on self-care, spend more time making money. And the opportunity – I think the most underhyped part of Elon's portfolio is the boring company. Me too. Because the idea of boring a tunnel between Midtown and LaGuardia. Yeah. I mean, LaGuardia is like six and a half miles from-

It takes nine years to get there. And it takes, and not only that, it's not even the amount of time it takes, it's the variance in the amount of time. Because occasionally you get there in 18 minutes and you think, oh, this is easy. And then the next day it takes an hour and a half and you spend the last 30 minutes. Same thing with National Airport here. It's right in town, but it's not. And you spend the last 30 minutes digesting your stomach because you're about to miss your goddamn plane. Yeah. Anyways, and not only that, there's a huge application for the Boring Company and subterranean transportation to get us our Nespresso pods.

Because I think you're going to start hearing more about the last, last mile. Yeah, trucks in New York. And the ability to get your stuff really- Can you imagine New York if things were underground? That would be so great if all the deliveries were, you know, they- Well, all you have to see is people who really understand transportation

are always kind of fascinated by the MTA and the New York subway. It really is amazing. And the fact that you can get around so efficiently and so quickly when it's working, and it does, I think for the most part, they do a fantastic job. I agree. I think it gets slapped a lot, but it is astonishing. I think they do a great job. But the boring company is the most underhyped. Tesla is

massively the most overhyped. And somewhere in the middle, an amazing company that'll probably create the most shareholder value is SpaceX. But that's a different talk show. But I think urban transportation, you talk about autonomous. I love the idea of the boring company. I think there'll be some sexier stuff that won't get as much traction, such as autonomous or electric. Bikes? Rotocopters are basically flying.

Oh, oh, vertical. They're called vertical lift and takeoff. Vertical lift? Yeah, they're called vellos. Vellos, yeah. They're interesting. I think what, you know, obviously Kitty Hawk is working on things.

I think you can't count out all the bikes in the city and electric bikes. I think this is something you know, other European cities use bikes a lot more, but it's more and more in the cities, you've noticed. The last part is, of course, people are staying home more and not commuting to downtown areas. And so that will be an interesting shift in terms of how people get

around. People aren't doing as much business travel. But I do think there's going to be a move to more different kind of mass transit. It isn't endlessly exhausting. So we feel disruption, correct? And Apple, of course, Apple, we've talked about Apple putting out a car. I can't imagine if they move into cars, they won't move into buses and everything else kind of stuff. Yeah. I think, look, infrastructure is one of the best investments you make. It is the definition of investment, and that is you don't see immediate return, but the invisible infrastructure of our airways is something that's underappreciated. Roads have worked out rather well. Yeah. Yeah. And subways and bridges and transportation and municipal transportation. I mean, it's really strange. It can also backfire. I think one of the things that

is the worst thing for the brand of San Francisco is the public transportation there. It's just always been terrible. It's not terrible. Sorry, I wrote it all the time. It's not terrible. Oh, Muni? It's just not in enough places. They're about to open a new... Oh, my God. I wrote it every day. Well, you must have been on the white person's route. No, I was not. There's like a few routes from the marina downtown. No, I took buses. The rest sucks.

I took buses and Muni all over the San Francisco Bay Area. It's not the worst. It's just not... I'm sorry. The 83 on RTD in LA going down Worcester Boulevard is much better. They just built a new one going down the other direction, going to the wharf and stuff like that for tourists and stuff like that, I think it's not that bad. It's not terrible, but it's not, the buses are quite okay. I use

them all the time. Anyway. Quite okay. I like them. I never, I never. A concentrated city with the greatest concentration of wealth in the world and their public transportation is quite okay. Larry and Sergey want, there's issues around the hills. I don't know if you've heard, but San Francisco is very hilly. Larry and Sergey wanted. I think you're being condescending. I think you're mocking me with that statement. I believe I am.

Larry and Sergey wanted to put in chairlifts, and Gavin Newsom, it's going to be, they want to put in chairlifts. Yeah, up the hills. Anyway, let's get to the next question about green. Yeah, chairlifts. They wanted chairlifts. And then you get on them and ride them up the hills. Don't you love the idea of a bunch of VCs falling off the chairlifts and then being run over by a union? I do.

I always liked it. Gavin Newsom called me right after they did that. And he's like, I can't believe this, when he was mayor of San Francisco. Okay, next question about green. He didn't call me. I didn't call you. Yeah. That's because we both lived in San Francisco.

Well, he was mayor. That is the whitest statement ever. After the idea of a chairlift in San Francisco was discussed, the governor called me. Well, smell you, white lady. All right, listen. Smell you. Read my book. Anyway, Scott, next question about green energy.

This one came via email from a listener named Oliver. I will read it to you. Do you have any advice or warnings about investing in green energy? The last weeks, what with COP26, there's been a lot of talk about the private sector investing trillions to combat climate change. How can a small fish like me get involved? Good question. Scott, would you like to start? Or I can start on this one. I know. You go first. Well, you know, a lot of VCs were originally invested in green energy, and then they sort of, it fell apart because they weren't getting the returns because it was way too early to do this.

But you have a lot of really big investors, including Elon Musk, including Bill Gates, many others moving into the green energy space. And I think they don't use a term. It's climate change tech, I think is what it is more called. I think it's a huge opportunity. And I've said over and over again, I think the world's first trillionaire is going to be a climate change tech person.

There's mitigation. There's all kinds of things. There's so many different ideas. I know a small startup that's using algae to eat up carbon. There's all kinds of really fascinating things going on. And I consider them all in the bowl of tech kind of things, solutions. They'll be all, and that includes going into space and living elsewhere, not on this planet,

thinking about our plan B, essentially. So yes, I think there's all kinds of ways to invest. There's tons and tons and tons of startups. And you'll see, it's sort of like the early days of the internet. At the same time, you're going to possibly lose a lot of money with some of them. So it's a very risky area to pick and choose. Well, yeah, this is a complicated one because I think we bought into this narrative that some graduate from MIT is going to solve climate change and make us rich along the way. And wouldn't that be nice? Not going to happen. Look, I think we've mostly in our generation, well, actually not our generation, a lot of generations have arbitrage the climate in order to create trillions of dollars in shareholder value and also some

prosperity. Fossil fuels have played a huge part in society's progress. But essentially, we've been arbitraging it and ignoring the externalities to make us rich. And now we'd like to think that we can unbundle or fix the climate while getting rich. And some of that is true, but I still, at the end of the day, think it's a bit of a false flag and absolves us from making the hard choices and investments we're going to need to make as nations and as mature economies to come together, get rid of coal, and just recognize this is going to be expensive. And so I don't like this narrative around we're going to get rich solving climate change. And what you've seen is this-

I do think people are going to get rich solving climate. It doesn't mean that it's not a difficult thing. There's going to be technology. Well, the ultimate sleight of hand here is that Tesla, Rivian, and Teglucid combined are now worth almost the entire automobile market. So the smart analysts will go, well, this kind of assumes,

these valuations kind of assume that these three companies are going to sell every car produced on earth. And they go, well, no, we don't want to talk about that because that's an irrational argument and doesn't justify our valuation. So we change the total adjustable market to climate change. And I don't, it's really at some point, I think the market does reattach to its fundamentals. Now, having said that, I think it's an exciting place. I think your investment dollars can be a force of change. I'm investing in some stuff around climate tech. What?

What are you investing in? So I'm talking to some guys about where I'm going to invest, and this will be unpopular. I'm going to invest in nuclear. I think once we get our heads out of the clouds. Lots of countries operate on it, but go ahead. And stop talking about the Hallmark channel version of how we solve climate change. I think nuclear relative to the risks and relative to the waste is a fantastic way to replace coal. And I think it's going to be any part of a sober conversation around how we make the type of

progress we need to make against carbon emissions will ultimately lead to a sober conversation around the role that nuclear plays. Yep, I would agree with that. So I'm interested in investing in nuclear tech. Not solar. You're not doing solar or wind or things like that? No, my sense isn't that that stuff still requires so many subsidies. There's the new technology, and actually Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are investing in this company. As I understand it, the equivalent of mini-mills and steel mills, they used to be very expensive, and then they came up with mini-mills that were

more efficient. There's essentially that type of technology that could make mini-reactors that are nearly the financial or capital costs and produce a lot of electricity. Anyways, I'm very interested in nuclear. I think it's a word we're going to hear more. I think also you have to think about lots of areas like food, clothing. There's all sorts of questions about how to make clothing and produce it. Construction materials. There's all kinds of innovation in making of materials and how we make things. There's all kinds of ways to participate in this area,

and there's tons and tons of different companies. Just to put on my investor hat, though, if you're purely an economic animal, I would argue that on a risk-adjusted basis, your best returns, and I am not an investor in any of these companies, but I think your best returns would be a basket of Exxon, Chevron, and Hess. I think that fossil fuel companies have been so punished. And the bottom line is we overestimate the speed away from fossil fuels, how dependent we are on them. And these companies are generally well-run companies that spin off a shit ton of cash flow. So I don't invest in them. I'm not going to invest in them. But if you were purely looking for stock market returns, I actually think fossil fuels offer great returns right now.

Oh, dear, Scott. I know. I know. Sorry. Well, you know, they are cleaning up the environment. You know how they talk about that. It's so funny. Beyond petroleum.

That was one of the great rebrandings. Yeah. Beyond petroleum. You're beyond petroleum. Anyway, here's a question. I rebrandings. Yeah. Beyond petroleum. You're beyond petroleum. Anyway, here's a question. I'm beyond sexy. Hello. Oh, good.

Hello. I knew that was coming in. I don't know how you managed to do that in the climate change area. Anyway, here's a question about a certain someone at Facebook, a.k.a. Metta. Roll tape. Hi, Scott and Cara. This is Jason from London.

I was really curious what you thought of Andrew Bosworth being promoted at Facebook. Having recently read An Ugly Truth, the authors of which you had in your podcast, it doesn't come across in the best light, or he doesn't at least. So really curious what you think of that shakeup of Facebook. This is all you, Cara. All right. Well, you know, Andrew Bosworth is a very important figure at Facebook, no matter how you slice it. And he certainly has over the years said and done some controversial things, but he is completely in lockstep with Mark Zuckerberg. They're very close personally.

He's one of his closest advisors. I don't think of it as a shakeup in that it's inevitable that he would be in this position. I suspect he's one of the top choices for CEO. And he's willing to do whatever it takes. He's reflective, certainly. He can be obstreperous. But he's definitely the person that is going to be an important figure in Facebook, has been, and will be going forward. There's a few other names, of course, that have been battdied about, but I think he's probably in the pole position,

maybe Chris Cox. There are some others. Isn't Andrew Bosworth the guy that was the biggest draft bust of all time in the NFL? Wait, different Bosworth. Different Bosworth. Remember that guy? He became an action film hero for like a minute. Do you remember what I'm talking about? No, I do not. It's a sports figure, so no. Well, that's it. I'm not seeing the Kristen Stewart movie. You need to see that. That's it.

Here's the deal with these people at Facebook. I'm going to keep going with your off on some tangent. Hold on, hold on. Just let me just say this. Okay, go finish your tangent. Talking about any of their executive other than Sheryl Sandberg at Facebook is like talking about the generals for Kim Jong-un or whatever his name is. They don't make any fucking difference. He's an autocrat. Everyone is-un or whatever his name is. They don't make any fucking difference. He's an autocrat. Everyone is there just to be his mouthpiece. He looks at

them and says, can you parrot me in my sociopathic ways all day long? Okay, you're hired. And the moment you stop, you're out. So, no one really matters here. No one, just FYI, Facebook, So no one really matters here. No one, just FYI, Facebook, I'm trying to think of a delicate way of saying this. You don't matter. If you're working on Diem or Carpe Diem or Libra or Portal or Meta or Oculus, just know on your way to work,

you are totally fucking irrelevant. Okay, next question. Let me just say, he is a much bigger figure than that. He was at Harvard. I think he was one of his TAs at Harvard, I think. I forget. Anyway, he's a very important figure at the company. He just is. He is. He's going to be replacing Mike Shepfer, who announced he'd be transitioning. And he has been working on all the key things at the company. So his biggest thing was the memo that was circulated within Facebook and got out called The Ugly. What was it about? It argued that connecting people was important and said, sometimes you break some eggs, I think, essentially, as I recall. It was provocative, which he is. You could have negative consequences

and there's all kinds of things that could happen, but them's the brakes. It was interesting. It was an interesting, I think he was telling the truth, you know, and he has since refuted it a little bit. He told BuzzFeed, I don't agree with the post today. It was a post I think he did in 2016

where he said, I don't agree. I didn't agree with it when I wrote it. The purpose with the post today. It was a post I think he did in 2016 where he said, I don't agree. I didn't agree with it when I wrote it. The purpose of the post, like many others I've written internally, was to bring the surface issues I felt deserve more discussion at the broader company. So, okay. All right. He likes to be provocative. So he's provocative. Anyway, next question.

We have a fun one. The question was sent in via Twitter from a listener named Kelly. She wants to know, do you have a favorite guest or interview you have done? Scott, what is your answer? Hmm. Well, this is front of mind right now, but I think John McWhorter is fantastic. What are some of your thoughts? I'll start with John. your thoughts. I'll start with John. Okay. John McWhorter, who wrote Woke Racism. We've had him on before. I think he's a very strong thinker. You know, I hadn't thought of this off the top of my head. I think we try to mix them as much as we can. And so, I couldn't think of one that I thought was better than the others. I think Casey's always good. I, you know, I like your friend, The Canadian, when we've had him on, Sorkin. Andrew Sorkin, Canadian spy. Canadian spy.

Canadian spy. I liked Pamela Paul about, she wrote the internet before the internet thing, like what has changed. I thought that was a really interesting discussion. Did we have Maureen Dowd on? We had Maureen Dowd. No, not yet. No, did we? No, we didn't.

Well, I still, she's my favorite guest. Even if she's never been on the show, I love her. We have to have her. I love her. It's very hard to convince her to do that. I have to tell you. Actually, my favorite guest was Maggie Haberman because you were so scared of her. I'm not scared of Maggie. I was literally two minutes late and you're like texting and calling in the fire department. Well, she's a busy lady. She covers things. Maggie waits for no man. Get to the mic. Oh, okay. So one of the things our producers are telling us,

who means favorite interview ever, don't have to stick to Pivot. I'd have to say Steve Jobs. Interesting, hard. You had to be on your toes. Did Gavin Newsom call you about your interview with Steve Jobs? I really like almost every interview I do. Which ones? I used to love interviewing, and I haven't done interviews in a while.

Oh, I know. Barry Diller. He's always funny. Go ahead. Who? My go-to. Yeah. My total go-to and who I think is probably one of the brightest people or more thoughtful reason calling balls and strikes person is my colleague, Aswath Damodaran.

He's my favorite guest. Oh, yeah. I've had him on. Oh, God. Why are we forgetting him? I've had him on the Prop G pod probably three times. Yeah, that was a great call. I just think he's a, I just could listen to him all day.

I think it's fantastic. Yeah, yeah. I really, I like, I like all my little interviews. I like all my little interviews. I like them all. Whatever I just did last, I like the Hans Zimmer one I just did. I thought it was very interesting. And I didn't realize the range of how much he had done before I—

Oh, you know who was great? It was Caleb Scharf, the astrophysicist from Columbia. He was great. He was really good. Yeah. All right. Well, those are all good people. We like everybody.

We like everybody. And send suggestions of who we should talk to. And my favorite was Emily Ratajkowski, even though I didn't listen to it. I turned on—I muted it and just watched it. Anyway. There was no video. Is that a hate crime? There was no video.

Again, no video. Is that a hate crime? Oh, no video. Again, no video. Is that a hate crime? Oh, my God. It was a really good interview. You should listen to it. Actually, you know what? I'm going to say one more. It's hard being this hot, Cara. Listen.

It's painful being this scorchingly hot. I have one more I think was my favorite recent interview, Monica Lewinsky. I have to say. That was a great, great, great interview. And the McConaughey one was a good one. You interviewed Matthew McConaughey? Yeah, yeah. He said all sorts of crazy shit.

How was that? What was he like? Everyone was like, he should not run for governor after it. He was lovely as a person, but he didn't know a lot of the topics of issues in Texas. So some big ones. Isn't he kind of Val Kilmer with a better plastic surgeon? What do you mean by voting rights? That's what he said, essentially.

What do you mean by voting rights? There's what he said, essentially. What do you mean by voting rights? There's some legislation happening in your state. So you're running for governor? People should vote. No, he just said

he's not going to. He gave a little speech. He's not going. He shouldn't. It was, I think this was sort of a bit of a knife in that effort

because he wasn't very up to speed on Texas. A few more edibles, that guy. That guy's like one, you know. Lovely guy.

That guy's a few edibles short of Val Kilmer. Lovely guy. In any case. True detective, season one. Lovely guy. That guy's a few edibles short of Val Kilmer. Lovely guy. In any case. True detective. Season one. He was great. Dallas Buyers Club.

Outstanding. Yes, he is. But doesn't know anything about Texas governance. It's time for a quick break. Then we'll be back to answer more listener questions. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer

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Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Do you feel like your leads never lead anywhere? And you're making content that no one sees. And it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot. It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you. Tells you which leads are worth knowing,

and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Okay, Scott, we're back. Our next question comes from Norway, and it draws a parallel between big tech and gambling. How interesting. Hi Karen Scott. My name is Carly. I am an American expat who lives in Norway. So I work in responsible gambling, and the company I work for every few years has to get recertified as a responsible gambling company by the European Lottery Association. And my question to you guys is, why do we not have an ethical technology association or board that all of these large tech companies like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube have to be members of?

And they get certifications or they get a score every few years to show how ethical they truly are. So we have a better understanding of their practices. Thanks. Love the show. Carly, you know why? Knock, knock. Americans suck. That's why. Europeans rock. It would be sweet if I could finish it, but right now there's just no way. Okay. There's no way the United States would ever do this to any businesses. That's why, Carly, as an American, even though you live in Norway, you do understand that the less we try to hinder our companies, the better, even if they're ruining our society. So they would never, ever do anything. I think that would be a really interesting thing.

But what does certification mean? How is it enforceable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? So I think that would be a really interesting thing, but what does certification mean? How is it enforceable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? So I think that's the problem. Correct, Scott? I don't know. What do you think? I'm fascinated and think a lot about certification and rankings. I built my most, arguably my most successful business that Gavin Newsom called me about was L2.

that Gavin Newsom called me about was L2. And the way I built L2, that's absolutely a horrible thing to say. The way we built L2 was we came up with a ranking. We used to rank companies based on what we call their digital competence. And it's really powerful. Rankings can also be really negative in that as organizations can begin studying to the test.

And what we've seen in higher ed is the rankings have become so incredibly powerful because the only way you get 90 points of margin is to build a great brand. And the rankings were initially constructed, and a big component of the ranking was your exclusivity or how many people you rejected. And that has resulted in a rejectionist complexion of higher ed that has been incredibly damaging. So U.S. News & World Report, their ranking of colleges, which they started 30 or 40 years ago, has actually been really damaging. And you have to be really thoughtful about rankings because if they're successful, you end up with – there's a theory, and I forget who postulated it, but it's really

powerful. And that is the moment an index or a ranking or a metric becomes widely followed, it begins perverting that industry. And that's a really interesting statement that the moment we have like ratings, all of a sudden CNN and Fox begin totally thinking about how to just capture attention and what type of rating. Or all of a sudden advertisers just look at 18 to 49. So we end up with 18 to 25-year-olds. So rankings are really, really powerful. Now, specific to this question around responsible gambling, I think a lot about gambling specifically as it relates to young men. 85% of people with a gambling addiction are men. They're much more likely something about the human brain or the dope.

I don't know what it is, but essentially men are much more prone to gambling addiction at a young age. And also, it's an interesting stat, or what I found was an interesting stat. My mom was actually a docent in Las Vegas, and she used to do tours of the art at the Wynn and at the Bellagio, and she used to come home with all these fun facts about gambling. And the one that stuck in my mind is that gambling actually of every addiction, it has the highest suicide rate. Because if you're addicted to meth or alcohol, people recognize that you've become an alcoholic. And at some point, someone who cares about you hopefully intervenes. You get fired from your job. Your spouse says, you give up the bottle or I'm leaving or you have an intervention, whatever it is.

Gambling, you can get so far in over your head and no one has any idea. You can literally lose your house, your kid's college fund, be fired, borrow money from everybody and lose it all and nobody even knows. And these people feel as if they are in so deep the only way out is to kill themselves. And that always struck me that I found that shocking. The idea of a metric trying to assess how responsible a gambling organization is, it feels very Northern European. I don't know how you can, I would be interested to know how you actually operationalize that. You can't. It's never going to happen. It's never going to happen.

There's no way to – there's no enforcement. We should just strengthen our current enforcement agencies. That's how we do it here. We slap them hard and make them liable for certain things. That's what we need to do. Because does anyone care? Does a gambler gamble at responsible gambling organizations? Well, you're not allowed to do operate, I think.

They're much more strict, I think, there. Anyway, we need to move along, but it's a good question. We need Joe Pesci. That's, we need to move along, but, but it's a good question. We need Joe Pesci. That's what we need. That's responsible. Here's a short one from a listener named Lee roll tape. Kara. Just a silly question on your memoir,

which I can't wait to read. Are you going to follow Chicago manual, a style or AP for your editing? Jesus Christ. Could be, we could, we have a wider question. Hello,

Georgetown commandeers. Anyway, I don't know. I don't a wider question? Hello, Georgetown commandeers. I can't. Anyway, I don't know. I don't know. Honestly, Lee, thank you for a nice question. I'm glad you can't wait to read it, and I can't wait to write it. And there's a whole section on Scott, I think. I'm going to have that.

Well, by the way, how is your memoir? Aren't you writing a book? It's due very soon, and I'm not done. I'm not even going to. Let's not discuss. Let's not discuss. I had a lot of things going on. I feel for you.

I know what that's like in the eighth or ninth inning. I know what that's like. You're supposed to be in the ninth inning and you're really in the second. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay. There's a question about kids these days. This came via email from Bridget in Florida. I'll read it. I live in St. Petersburg, Florida. My daughter's high school, Northeast High, is currently struggling with kids doing these TikTok challenges. They've completely vandalized the high school, Northeast High, is currently struggling with kids doing these TikTok challenges. They've completely vandalized the high school bathrooms, even removing stalls, doors, dividers, locks, sanitary containers, and even an actual toilet. They are now stealing stuff from the classrooms like clocks and pencil sharpeners.

I feel like TikTok should remove or at least address these destructive challenges. I know they're happening all over, not just in our high school. I wanted to bring this to your attention in case you weren't aware. I was not aware, Bridget. What do you think, Scott? Yeah, yeah? TikTok has a lot of issues like this. I went to St. Pete for the first time. I went to St. Pete the first time I took my boys to see the Dali Museum. It's a wonderful city and an incredible museum. I mean, they do such a good job. I just feel so fond and impressed by St. Pete. I knew nothing about it. Anyways, so, you know, go St. Pete. I think there's a really big missed opportunity by TikTok,

and I think they're missing it. And that is, I think there's an opportunity for someone to come in and be the, I don't know what you want to call it, Puritan, conservative, reactionary, you know, go give your First Amendment speech somewhere else and really have a lot of guardrails and make it kind of safe viewing for kids. And when you see videos of students assaulting teachers because of the Assault Teacher Challenge, you know, it's just like, okay, folks, you're missing— Clean it up, TikTok. Yeah, and not only that, every— we talked about this last night on Twitter,

every CEO of every media company, especially in tech, has always erred on the side of First Amendment because it happens to be the way you can ignore damage to the Commonwealth and increase your revenues. So they all of a sudden are all really have incredible fidelity to the First Amendment, which is just ridiculous. There's a huge opportunity for a platform, and I thought TikTok was headed this way, to say, look, go have your debate with a First Amendment lawyer on Twitter. Anything that wreaks damage that could result in violent behavior, extremist behavior, or generally is just really fucking ugly, we're just booting you off. Yeah. I don't think they're that strict on that.

I don't think they're that strict on that. You know what? Here's the deal. Y'all are editors. Edit. Just edit. That's exactly right. 100%.

Your publishers unpublish things. You don't have to do everything, but stuff like this is like just, and then let someone else do that and let them deal with that. If you want to be like a brand, a bigger brand, everybody has these kinds of standards. And I know all the first men people scream, but you know, restaurants look a certain way and others don't. And you, if you want to have the big restaurant where everyone's happy and comfortable and safe, build that restaurant. But anyway, anyway, it's just, it's, it's kind of ridiculous that they let this stuff go on. And of course, people, kids are going to do stuff like this. It's just I'm not I mean, people should be better parents to have their kids do this stuff.

But it's almost irresistible in a lot of ways. And they're also teenagers. And so there you go. All right. Next question comes from Joseph on Twitter who wants some advice from us. Joseph asked, I've been out of work since the beginning of the pandemic. I am a stay-at-home parent with two kids. Will online certification from Google help me find a job?

Are companies going to seriously look at me as a potential hire with just a certificate versus someone with a degree? Yes, we say, Joseph. Scott, go on about this because this is something you talk about a lot. Well, look, we live in a society that's driven by certification. about a lot. Well, look, we live in a society that's driven by certification. And the most powerful certification still in America is the traditional Bachelor of Arts. And it's just a powerful, it's a powerful construct. The moment you get a college degree, you're more likely to get married, less likely to have heart disease. You make on average twice the aggregate amount of income over your lifetime as a non-college grad. However, that may not be an option for you. If you're a stay-at-home dad

with two kids, it just might not be realistic to figure out a way to get a traditional BA. We both give big tech a lot of grief. I think Google certificates, and I assume I'd like to think this is Sundar Pichai, I think it's fantastic. And some of the stats around Google certificates, about two-thirds, I think, of people who have received a Google certificate do not have a traditional college degree. It's very cost-effective. It's very time-effective. And the outcomes are really strong. And that is, I think, the average salary of someone or a job that someone gets from a Google certificate, and I think they're doing a UI UX and product management, is about $85,000. So I think this is exactly where we need to head, more vocational training, more unbundling, more micro-certification, and hats off to Google. I

think this is a fantastic program and effort. And they're also talking about coordinating and cooperating and partnering with community colleges. So, so much of these questions come down to our situational. What are your options? What are your obligations? But if you're a stay-at-home dad that doesn't have the opportunity to get what I call more formal certification, I think Google Certificates is fantastic. I'm a big fan. Okay. Yeah. Yes. And we think, and I think they're coming. You know, you'll see a lot more of this. And I think it's a great, it is a great thing that Sundar has done here. And so, yes, we think you can.

I think people are looking new ways of hiring people. There's, you know, there's, there's low employment, low unemployment. And so I think it's a great time to be able to get in there and show what you can do. You don't have to have gone to Harvard or whatever. Also, we, again, still need to focus on community colleges and other ways to do things like, you know, a plumber's certificate, everything, like all ways to train people for higher paying jobs than, you know, just being servants or serfs, as Scott says. Okay, Scott, one more quick break, then we'll be back and give our end of year resolutions.

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Alex partners to get straight to the point and deliver results when it really matters. Okay, Scott, we're back. We're going to do some of our end-of-year resolutions now. What is yours, Scott? What is your resolution? You know, I think everybody needs a code. My code is capitalism, stoicism, and atheism, and atheism is the most powerful part of my code, and that is it makes me think about how I want to spend the rest of what I think is a very finite thing. And that is the number of days we have here. One of the things I'm trying to do professionally, I think, as a younger entrepreneur and CEO, I don't think I was as kind as I could have been. I was quick to fire. I was very harsh. And I thought of that as kind of like what you were supposed to do as a CEO, and I was successful, or certain outcomes were successful. And as I get older, I'm trying to be

a kinder manager, if you will. I'm more patient and just a little bit more thoughtful and kind of go to my kind of slow thinking. So I think I'm on the right track. My resolution is to be, my resolution is in a professional context to be kinder and also not take the bait and feel like I need to get back in everyone's face

when I feel like I've been wrong. There's kindness and grace. Those are my resolutions. You're going to be less aggrieved is what you're saying. Well, it's okay. Yeah, aggrieved is, I don't like that term aggrieved

because it makes it sound like you're a victim and you're, I don't know. I think that's a horrible thing or I don't like the term aggrieved because it makes it sound like you're a victim and you're – I don't know. I think that's a horrible thing. I don't like that. It makes me feel weak. But just in general, I think the people that – I want to emulate role models who demonstrate more grace and more kindness. And I think that's what I'm going to try to do.

How about you, Kara? Well, invest more in our relationship, obviously. Go on! No, not really. Go on! No, I think two things. Professionally, I've done a lot in 2020 and 21, a lot. I've done a lot of new things, which is interesting. I've said yes to things I really like. So it sounds crazy, but I kind of want to do a TV show.

I want to do a TV show. Really? Yeah. Well, you're doing a TV show, didn't I tell you? It's on CNN Plus. Oh, okay, great. I mean, I'm the one getting paid for it, and it's my name on it, but you've got to bail my ass out of that. I know.

You're a guest every week. Not unless you pay me a big chunk of money. I think I'm doing fine professionally. I don't think I really have to change a lot. But I just am interested in the TV. What does Gavin Newsom think? Sorry. Go ahead.

You're so jealous. I love when you're jelly of all my fantastic connections. I'm jealous a lot. You should be. I have a fantastic book. And envious. You should be. Terribly insecure.

Once again, you should be. How's your book coming? You know what? People don't know that Scott, he's incredibly generous. He's an incredibly generous guy. He's always offering a hand. You do. You do. You're doing me People don't know that Scott, he's incredibly generous. He's incredibly generous guy. He's always offering. And you do, you do. You're doing me a favor this weekend.

I'm going to New York. You offered me your place and et cetera, et cetera. You're always saying something nice about that. So I am going to invest in our relationship. Well, you know, there's a chairlift there. Okay. Now listen, the last thing is I'm going to personally, it's been a really, it's hard to have four children.

It is. And I have to invest more time with Amanda. That's a lot. I have to invest. It's hard to have, I'm sorry, it's hard to have four children. It is. And I have to invest more time with Amanda. That's a lot. I have to invest. It's hard to have, I'm sorry. It's hard to have four children at your age. At any age. At your age.

And we have to, when you have children, you forget your primary relationship. So not this week because it's exhausting. But I have to, we have to do more stuff that, you know, it's hard when you have a lot of children. It's not, there's nothing wrong. I just have to think about it. I have to think about it because it's hard when you have a lot of children. There's nothing wrong. I just have to think about it. I have to think about it because it's work and the kids. And so there should also be time for relationships.

I know everybody talks about this issue. But right now, not today. Not today. Just, Kara, just trust me on this one. I'm very good at reconnecting lesbians. Just spend a lot of time on the couch, take two or three hours, and do a Kristen Stewart marathon. We did. That's what we did the other day.

We had such a good time. We had such a good time. See, there you go. We're going to watch, actually, we watched the Spencer movie, which she plays Diana. And of course, somehow a lesbian scene gets into that movie, which we love.

We're like, of course it's Kristen Stewart, a lesbian scene gets in. But then we decided every year we're going to watch the Kristen Stewart Christmas lesbian movie, which we love. It's a terrible, terrible movie, but we love it, where she plays a lesbian going home with her closeted girlfriend. No, I hate Riverdale. Why do you always say Riverdale? It's ridiculous. I don't like Riverdale. I think it's mean. You know, I don't like it. But I like Kristen Stewart, whatever she does.

I think she's going to. You're turning into the Rex Harrison of the lesbian community. Like, remember Rex Harrison, the movie reviewer? Was it Rex Harris? Oh, Rex. That's not Harrison. Rex Harrison was an actor. Okay, Rex Harris. Rex Reed.

Oh, my God, Rex Reed. If, like, two men held hands in a movie, he's like,. Rex Harrison was an actor. Okay, Rex Harris. Rex Reed. Oh, my God, Rex Reed. If, like, two men held hands in a movie, he's like, best picture of the year. Oh, that's bullshit. You are such an evangelist for gay women, which is a good thing. No, I just said the sex life of teenage girls. I mean, with Texas College Girls. I'm sorry. That's a really good show.

Almost everyone there is straight. That's lesbian porn, isn't it? What are we talking about here? No, it is not. Anyway, everyone go see The Happiest Season. It's going to be Amanda and Kara's annual movie, along with Gladiator, which she's still not seen, which makes me question her commitment to me. I took you off course. Your resolution is to invest and maintain a healthy relationship with your spouse. The Happiest Season with Kristen Stewart with

Amanda. That's how it's going to go on. All right, Scott, stop dragging my favorite actress, Kristen Stewart. Those were some great questions. Send us more. What was that movie, Adventureland? She was in a great movie with about an amusement park. She's in lots of great movies. What's your favorite Kristen Stewart movie? All of them. All of them. Okay. There you go. I even like The Hunter, the one Snow White and The Hunter one. I can't believe I like that movie. It was terrible. If you've got a question you're curious about, go to nymag.com slash pivot and submit it for the show.

Okay, Scott, that is the show. We'll be back next year. This is another year of Scott and Kara. How many years we've been together? I think we've been together three years. Is that about right? We have a pretty good relationship, I have to say. I really enjoy it. This is arguably one of my best... So let me say as we end the year, thank you very much, Kara. I think you're a wonderful role model, and I very much enjoy our relationship, and I appreciate your generosity and your professionalism. Yes, thank you.

I appreciate it also. I think it's been a very successful... Where's my chair? I agree with you. It's been a very good relationship. I think we get along very well, and one of the things I want to stress with people is Scott and I don't always agree on things. We have disagreements, But one of the things, the reason I think the successful sides were very funny is that we disagree with civility. And I think that's critically important going

forward. I think John talked about that. I think a lot of our, we try to get guests that talk about that. And I think that it's really important in this twitchy, angry world we live in to really start to listen to each other. And that's really been the problem is everybody takes their I am right stance. And we often change each other's minds, which I think is really good. Although mostly I'm right. Mostly. All that is true.

Anyway. And also, let me just say thank you to all our fans. I get stopped a lot on the street and ask about Scott. All our fans, we love you. Stop us anytime you see us in any place. Love it. Love it. And we love it.

And we love our fans. And we love that they love us, too. And we will do more. We can't wait to do more with you all in the future. That's funny because they stopped me as well and asked me about me. Sorry. Couldn't resist. Couldn't resist.

Scott, read us out. Happy New Year to everybody. Yes, Happy New Year. Today's show was produced by Laren Naiman, Evan Engel, and't resist. Couldn't resist. Scott, read us out. Happy New Year to everybody. Yes, happy New Year. Today's show was produced by Laren Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mia Solerio. Ernie and Jatot, engineering this episode.

Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or, frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next Tuesday for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Join me in 2022

for a kinder, a kinder and more graceful world. Happy New Year. Support for this podcast comes from Klaviyo. You know that feeling when your favorite brand really gets you. Deliver that feeling to your customers every time. Klaviyo turns your customer data into real-time connections across AI-powered email, SMS, and more, making every moment count. Over 100,000 brands trust Klaviyo's unified data and marketing platform to build smarter digital relationships with their customers during Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and beyond. Make every moment count with Klaviyo.

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