Pivot - Epstein Emails, Kennedy for Congress, and Guest Gov. JB Pritzker

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Kara and Scott are live from Chicago! First up, they’re joined by Governor JB Pritzker to discuss immigration operations, the redistricting war, and whether he’ll run for president. Then, both Democrats and Republicans release new material from Jeffrey Epstein, JFK’s grandson Jack Schlossberg enters the race for Congress, and Kim Kardashian's Skims secures a new funding round. Plus, in the spirit of Chicago, a Wiener's Circle roast! Stick around to hear Kara and Scott answer some questions from the audience. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠. Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠ Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] This episode was recorded live at The Chicago Theatre on November 12, 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Good evening, Chicago. Greatest City in America. Well, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast that cuts through all the spin. We're talking about Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. Now, these two break down the biggest stories and aren't afraid to call anyone out. Pivot is honest, informative, never boring. And that's why it's so smart that Kara and Scott have come to Chicago

because this is a city that's always been about innovation, hard work, and telling it like it is. So no better place to be in the country than here in Chicago tonight. So please join me in welcoming Kara Swisher. and Scott Galloway. You know, Washington was a little louder, so let's try that again. No. Oh, boo, Washington.

Oh, what do you think I'm Trump at a football game? Cut it out. Anyway, hi, everyone. Live from the Chicago Theater. This is Pivot from New York. New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway.

And before we start, I want to send us, he said a big thank you to our sponsors, Odu and Upwork. And please give a huge round of applause to tonight's special guests, Governor J.B. Prisker. I think you're popular. I'm not hearing booing. So we're going to talk about a couple of things. I'll ask you at the end about Epstein. Apparently there was some news today.

Any quick thoughts, actually? There's nothing quick about it except Trump, Epstein. I think we know what happened there. It's really interesting just as they got back. And they did seat the representative, which pushed it over the edge. And actually, others did join in. we'll talk about it more but I want to actually talk about

Chicago and about the controversial immigration operations that have taken place in the city after nearly 60 days agreed border patrol official Gregory Bovino who's trying I guess he's trying he's trying to get cast as the guy

that got his face melted in Raiders of the Lost Ark he's too short for that Okay. And many of his agents are reporting planning to leave as early as this week with the Trump administration's downshift. Operation Midway Blitz. I don't know where they come up with these names. Some reports indicate that federal agents could return fourfold in the spring.

I guess they can't take the weather because they're whims like you guys can. Because they're snowflakes. Exactly. So Kat continued to navigate the push and pull on this. strange federal immigration enforcement. Well, let me start by saying, and I really am not pandering to this audience, it's the people of Chicago that have truly reacted to them and protected our neighbors and our friends. People have come out the number of whistles that have been purchased all across, and that people

are using when they see unmarked vehicles and guys wearing masks, people are coming out of their homes. People who've never protested before. ever been engaged before. They're outraged. And they're coming out to warn their neighbors and their friends. You know, ICE is here. Be careful. Protect yourself. Know what your rights are. And the people of Chicago have just done a terrific job. For two months now, they've been under siege by Customs and Border Patrol, by ICE, by Gregory Bovino. And this city really stepped up, activated, peacefully protested, and has pushed back. I'm really proud of everyone. So how do you, how do you,

deal with this working presumably with the mayor, but how do you, they don't call you, right? You don't know a lot. They don't communicate at all. It's the first time that I think in my lifetime, that the federal government isn't talking to the state government about operations that it wants to do in our state. And it's very frustrating. So we read things in the news that come from, you know, they've got this lying spokesperson at the Department of Homeland Security, Trisha McLaughlin.

who literally, I mean, everything that comes out of her mouth is false. And that's how the news gets the information. And then we've got to figure out what's true, not true in reality, and then tell the news and, of course, react to it. So it's very challenging. But I will say that we've seen a lot of really terrible things on the ground. I think everybody here probably has witnessed something. We've asked people and they've reacted to it to pull. out their phones, their iPhones or Android phones and video everything you see. And you know what

that's led to? Federal cases that we have won. Thank you. So presumably you're not in touch with Christy Noem, correct? Yeah, Christy doesn't call me. I don't know why. Now, how does it usually work? I mean, some government, some people are asking some of those sort of pandering officials want them to come in. Why do you think they targeted you? you, you're running, because you might be running for president. What do you think is that? I don't think they targeted me. I mean, Donald Trump has had a problem with Chicago for as long as anyone's heard anything

out of his mouth, really. He attacked Chicago. He did back in 2016. He does all the time. He has this idea in his head that everything's on fire here. He said the same about Portland, I might add. I'm not sure why. But, and guess what?

Those are the first two cities, well, beyond L.A. Anyway, that they sent ICE and CBP into. but all I can say is that you know they thought they were going to be successful here they have not been successful again thanks to the people of Chicago and they're not just in Chicago I want to just give a shout out you know ICE and CBP really have been all over the state in the suburbs as well as downstate and there's a little town I'll just tell you a quick story a little town called Staunton Illinois in central Illinois where there's a an undocumented man who's raised his family there. He's got a wife and kids. They go to school

there. He owns a restaurant there. He's been in this country for 20 plus years. And they arrived in Staunton, Illinois, in central Illinois, and they grabbed this guy and disappeared him for a whole day. His family didn't know where he went to. And the town of Staunton, 4,000 people live in this town. 500 people showed up to protest. So where does, if they come back in the spring, what, what is your move if they come back with four times the force? The unfortunate thing is that because of the supremacy clause in the Constitution, federal law enforcement has the ability to, as long as they are following federal law and you ought to take note, they're not following federal law, but there's no one that's holding them accountable at the federal level. but they are allowed they have limited immunity as officers of the law even if they aren't following the law and so they it is very hard to push back on them so the way that we've done it here is number one

we've made sure everybody knows what their rights are and I'm talking about undocumented people and I bet we all know somebody they overstayed their visa something they're here in this state for one reason or another but have been here for a long time paying their taxes following the law raising their families, their good neighbors and friends, their their workers. And they've been here quite a long time. And, you know, they're coming for, those are the people supposedly they're coming for. Rather than the worst of the worst, which is what Donald Trump said that he was going after. Instead, they're stopping people who have brown skin or black skin and just asking them for their United States citizenship papers. I don't know about any of you, but I don't carry

citizenship papers, and we shouldn't have to in this country. So, Stutt. So I, voices to the governor when he was on the podcast. Every year I do a bucket list with my sons. I say, it's our weekend. We can do whatever you want. My oldest wanted to go to a PSG game in Paris. And my youngest, we live in London, said, I really want to go to Chicago.

So we came here, Steakhouse, batting K. went to the tallest building in Chicago, which every kid asked to do. It had a fantastic weekend. If you think of cities and states as a product, right? You're a relatively high-tax state, not the highest. You offer services, economic opportunity, but pitch the product that is Illinois and Chicago.

Like, why? Imagine you're a recent college grad with just a ton of options. or an immigrant that has incredible human capital and could go anywhere. What's the pitch? Sell me on Illinois as a place to choose to spend my formative or young adult years. I might add that I'll make the pitch,

but I will tell you that this is the destination for most kids at universities in the Midwest. We have an enormous influx of people here from Michigan, from Indiana, from Missouri and so on. People want to come to the city of Chicago, the young people coming here. I mean, it's an exciting, vibrant city.

I would say there are several things. I mean, first of here, a young person, we've got, you know, great jobs at tech companies. We are growing. Interesting fact I heard from Google, which is within Google, maybe somebody hears from Google. But there you go. I heard that within Google,

if you want to transfer around to one of the other offices, either because your spouse is moving or whatever. The most requested place to move to in the United States is Chicago. And they just are, I don't know if any of you've seen, but they just Google are moving to the center of the city of Chicago. They actually bought the building from us from the state of Illinois, and they're redoing it, and it's going to be absolutely gorgeous. So it's a great, vibrant city where there are a lot.

lot of really good jobs, whether it's the tech businesses or I'll just add, it's a great sports town. And importantly, a great place to raise your family. And last thing is I lived, you know, I've lived in lots of different places when I was younger. I lived in, went to school in North Carolina, you know, lived in California, lived in Washington, D.C., lived in just outside of Boston. So a lot of different places. And I can say this, no more decent people in a big city than in the city of Chicago. Okay. I think, I think Scott was looking for what's your favorite bar tip, but that's okay. One issue about the, just this week, President Trump said the Miracle Miles Shopping Center, which in Chicago, I covered retail here, by the way, once covered our nations,

once considered our nation's best, now more than 28% vacancy factor, and is ready to call it quits unless something is done about murder and crime, which is prevalent throughout the city, call in the troops, this is in all caps, call in the troops fast before it is too late. So first of all, it's the magnificent mile. Thank you. It's not a shopping center. And you said in response, and this was interesting, the man is demented. He really has no idea what he's doing. That's an interesting choice of words, but I would assume the city's capable of handling real estate vacancies without federal intervention. Look, like I said, he loves to dump on the city of Chicago. The reality is that, honestly, this state is on the rise. This city is on the rise. We have a lot of really great things going for us, and it doesn't help when you have the

president of the United States with some crazy notion of what the city is. He doesn't come here. I think if you, you know, he's got such a bad rep with everybody in Chicago that if you ask most people, they'd like to tear the name Trump off that building of his. I, you know what's wrong with it? The font is wrong. It's badly sized font. It really is. It's offensive.

Anyway, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's other things that are wrong with Trump. but I will say this that he's you know he likes to dump on us but he just he doesn't read apparently he doesn't spend any time yeah trying to understand anything at all if he did because he also put a tweet out or whatever his I don't know false whatever it is social um but he put something out you know where he was he claimed credit for the last four years

of crime coming down precipitously in the city of Chicago. And, I mean, our homicide rate has been cut in half. And they've been here for two months, you know, not getting the worst of the worst off the streets. And he put out something today or yesterday claiming that any success we've had has been because of him. And again, all I can say is he should, you know, I wish he, well, I don't really wish he would spend more time here.

But, but, I mean, if he understood. this city, you know, like most people who come here and spend any time here, it's a great city and he should know it. But I, anyway, I'm frustrated by everything. You stick with demented. I got to stick with demented. I mean, otherwise, like almost everything that comes out of his mouth is false. So I'm frustrated because he's got the biggest bully pulpit in the world. And he's, you know, talking crap about the city of Chicago. And all I can say is, I mean, all the people, I bet a lot of people that are in the audience move to the city of Chicago and will vouch for the city with everyone you know. I'm going to ask two national questions and let you go.

This country's in the middle of a massive redistricting war, the term control of Congress. Apparently, the Republicans might actually lose seats now through their redistricting because they're turning pink or purple, especially in Texas. but they're only up a half a seat right now and possibly down four through their efforts. But Illinois, what is going to happen here? Well, I've been, say, we're going to take a poll tonight. You know, they're going state by state, right? Republicans are and trying to get,

well, Donald Trump is trying to get the governors and the Republican legislatures to redistrict. And Indiana, right next door to us, has been on again, off again, on again, they're trying to do it. And what I've said is that, and there's been a pairing of states, by the way, Missouri is trying to do it, and therefore Maryland might do it in order to cancel out Missouri. California did it to cancel out Texas. You know, if Indiana does it and they're going to meet in December to decide, I think that

would push Illinois toward redistricting. Okay. I will add we have 14 Democrats out of 17 seats so we're doing okay Democrats are doing okay in this state so two questions first is do you think the seven Democratic senators should have voted to end the shutdown there were eight by the way excuse me and and I know every single one of those people and I can tell you that I mean that's probably the biggest mistake I've seen maybe in my political career. It was the wrong thing to do.

Democrats won eight days ago everywhere in the country that there was an election. And I would have thought that would stiffen their spines in the United States Senate, not loosen them. And unfortunately, we saw people who are retiring. It makes no sense to me. People that are retiring who have really nothing politically to lose and should have. It's part of the scheme. presumably, right?

It's a scheme, exactly. Right. But I'm frustrated. And, you know, I, you know, one of them was our senior senator here. I was, I was just, I was very disappointed. He's had a, he's really done a lot of good things for the state and a lot of good things for the country. I was disappointed in his decision to do that. Our other senator, who I think extraordinarily highly of, also criticized the senior senator.

Her name is Tammy Duckworth. She did a great job. vote against it. So why do you think, why do you think they did it? What was your theory? I mean, there was all these theories of game theory. I understand, but there's also these game theory thing that's out there. I think many of them had come.

And you heard them, some of them at press conferences yesterday. I think they came to the conclusion that, you know, this has gone on for so long that it's hurting people and that they could rescue the country from this situation. But the reality is the guy who created this problem, Donald Trump. And he's the guy who refused to sit down with Democrats. By the way, what was he doing? Why did he hold out and not sit down with Democrats and go along with, he wanted to shut the government down? Why? And the reason, I mean, this is the crazy thing. He wants to deny people food in order to force the country to accept less health care.

I mean, your job as president of the United States is to make people's lives better. Democrats just wanted health care, restoration of affordable health care. That's all Democrats wanted. And Donald Trump was willing to starve people in order to hold to his position. You know, it's arguably one of the best campaign slogans of the 21st century is that we would, you know, the Democrats are the ones who are fighting for people to get fed and get health care and that it's the Republicans and Donald Trump who are willing to stand against it. And so I don't get it. Why did the senators do it, though?

Why did the difference? Again, I thought, I think that they felt like we're running up against Thanksgiving, that people aren't going to be able to get their flights to wherever it is that they want to go, that the public will hold both parties and maybe Democrats more so for some reason responsible. But the reality is that that's not what was happening, right? I mean, Republicans rightly so, they're in control. They've literally got every branch of government in their hands, and they are the ones responsible for this. And yet these eight decided to give in. It is too bad. You know,

the Democrats, people rely upon Democrats to do the responsible thing all the time. Guess what who's doing that? The Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump are the ones who are, you know, we've got to go do the right thing so that they can get away with murder. So two more quick questions. One, we talked to Governor Healy in Boston about their efforts to make Massachusetts an AI hub. You're leaning into quantum computing. Talk really briefly about the strategy here. So yeah, we've got, we've got, first of all, we've got some of the best institutions in the entire country for building quantum and AI. We've got Argonne National Laboratory, Fermi Lab, University of Chicago, University of Illinois, Northwestern. Not to mention, as I mentioned those Midwest institutions,

Purdue, University, Wisconsin, Madison, etc. All great places, right, and people come here to Chicago. They want to come here. So we have all the makings of it to begin with. Second, University of Chicago came to me in 2019, wanting to build out what's called the Chicago Quantum Exchange. And I had just passed or was about to pass a major infrastructure bill for the state one that hadn't been passed. I mean, we hadn't had anything like that really ever in our history and asked if we would invest in making Illinois and the Chicago Quantum Exchange the hub of quantum for the country. And I insisted that the University of Illinois

be the partner in that endeavor. And putting that together, and then we're now building a quantum campus, that has made, that has really put us on the map. There are three states that are going after being the quantum hub of the country, Colorado, Maryland, and Illinois, and we are in the lead.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Can I do a quick? Sure. So I want you to imagine that you're a popular governor and you decide to run for president.

Yeah, that's the question I was going to ask. Go for it. What am I imagining? What was that? Mining for president. I just wanted to do a lightning round. Quick responses, gut response on some policy ideas. Mandatory national service.

We've got to train people for the jobs of the future. I believe that doing some kind of service, allowing people to go to trade school potentially in that service, right? So we're not talking necessarily about middle. military service, but just serving the country, we've got a whole lot of infrastructure that needs to get built. I think that would be a great way for people to operate. Lower eligibility for Medicare by three years, every year in office, such that it's 41 by the time you leave, basically a move towards nationalized or socialized medicine. Lowering it every couple of years. Socialized medicine. Socialized medicine.

Lowering Medicare. I'm for universal health care. I believe everybody deserves to have a doctor and have a... Fair enough. Universal childcare. Are you kidding me? I came into office with 25 years of childcare and early general minimum wage from 725 to say 20 or $25 an hour. Are you kidding? This is my topic.

You know, $14,000 a year no one can live on anymore. That's $7.25. That is the national minimum wage. So if you don't live in a state like Illinois where I help to raise it to $15 an hour, you are living in poverty and holding. down a full-time, probably two full-time jobs, making $28,000 a year if you work two full-time jobs, unable to really raise your family while you're doing it if you're working two jobs. And so, yeah, I'm a big believer that we've got to raise the national minimum wage, $7.25,

by the way, greatest political issue ever. To what? To what minimum wage. Well, at least $15. That's what we've done here in the state of Illinois. And by the way, hundreds of thousands of people no longer live in poverty in the state of Illinois because we raised the minimum wage. Okay, Scott.

Last question. A massive increase in support, armaments, long-range missiles, and potentially boots on the ground to Ukraine. Well, I don't want to send boots on the ground. I think that we had an opportunity under with Joe Biden in office. He was doing the right thing. Look, they should fight their own war, but we should support them because, I mean, Russia is not our friend.

And Russia wants a piece of the rest of. Europe. And it is Ukraine that stands in the way. And so we ought to be supporting the nation of Ukraine. Donald Trump walked away and has let Vladimir Putin essentially kill hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine. And now, you know, and he says, oh, he's such a great peacemaker. He hasn't made peace anywhere. He's basically just sided with one side, let them blow over their competition, their, their enemy. And then, you know, that's that's the way he makes peace. I lied. I lied last. one removal of section 230 protection for algorithmically elevated content social media i mean this is probably the probably the biggest danger to young people in this country that we have got to put

some limits i tried to pass a law last spring uh we're going to try again this year uh that would banned cell phones in classrooms across the state. And that's the way we can do it in the state of Illinois, but there's a whole lot the federal government ought to be doing. All right. So how close are you to a president's run and tell me in numbers? Like three months, six months? We, we, we, we, we,

I love being governor of Illinois. I'm running for reelection, by the way. Blabby, blabby, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. La. We've got a great bench. What else do you want me to tell you? We've got a great Democrats have probably the greatest bench that we've had for quite some time for 2028.

I think you're running for president, so you can go now. No. You're looking good. I'm just saying you're slimmed down. You're looking good. Anyway, thank you, Governor Prisker. We'll let you get back to work. Thank you, Governor.

Let's have a round of applause. Give him around. All right. We need to take another break, and when we come back, we'll get to some of the latest headlines. You know which one. Support for the show comes from Odu.

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Scott, we're back recording live from the Chicago Theater here in the Windy City. Let's hit a few news stories. House Republicans released over 20,000 pages of documents from the Epstein estate today. The document dump came just after the House Democrats released emails from Epstein, where he claimed President Trump, quote, spent hours at my house with a trafficking victim and that Trump, quote, knew about the girls at Mar-a-Lago. The email sent to Jolene Maxwell and author Michael Wolf between 2011 and 2019, suggest Epstein thought he had leverage over Trump.

The Trump administration held a situation room meeting earlier today over the House effort to force the release of all the DOJ's Epstein files. And in Congress, of course, they passed the ability to vote on releasing the files in the House. They couldn't even, let me just say, they couldn't even convince Lauren Bobert to change her vote, which is, and let me tell you, I'm going to give her Broadway tickets for the rest of her life. for sticking with it, that girl. By the way, can you imagine a more awesome date for your 17-year-old son?

Beetlejuice lets you fill her up, a little hand action. I mean, it's literally like, where was she when I was in high school, right? All right. In any case, she's stuck by her guns, and it's where they seated the Arizona representative who was the next vote,

but more people are going on. But let me just be clear, everybody, Once it passes the House, which is likely to do, it's then got to pass the Senate, and then Trump has to sign it, which he will veto it. And then it's got to be veto proof. So it's unlikely these files will come out. They will drip, drip, drip out. That is certainly true. So how, how, what are you seeing at this point? There was another email that came out that he said he didn't know, he didn't get a massage. This is the line that Epstein had. Trump didn't get a massage, but he knew about the girls, which seems to be the lowest fucking bar in America that he didn't get a massage. And Roe Conner predicts that this full vote by early December. So what do you think what's happening here, it's sort of overtaken the news cycle? I mean, I want to get your view because I thought we were at a red line about nine red lines ago. Yes, me too. So it feels as if absolutely nothing will turn his own again.

against him. So, but the weird thing is, is that I generally believe the most powerful person in the world is Trump because he sits on the largest economy or the largest military. She is right up there, kind of a close number two, because all of this tariff nonsense is essentially resulted in a massive recalibration of soft power and alliances and economic alliances towards China away from the West and the U.S. But I generally believe the third most powerful person in the world is a dead pedophile. And that is, we're closing Congress. I believe that, and I'm, this might sound like a paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I think there are five or six very intelligent, most likely young people with a background and communications in a room,

queering, anthropic, and chat GPT. Whenever Epstein starts to creep back into the news cycle, they say, what stunt, publicity, announcement, cheering down with the White House? What will push it out of the cycle? I literally think we're our government right now. I think the third most powerful person in the world in terms of what we are doing and the actions that Congress is taking.

I essentially think that Speaker Johnson has become basically the giant block for Epstein getting back into the news. They wouldn't have closed down Congress had it not been for fear. than information about the president's co-horting with a convicted pedophile. So the third most powerful man in the world right now

is someone who's been dead for five years. So where does it go? I mean, because the evidence... I'll put it back to you. I have been so wrong on this, Kara. What do you think? You know, I think it's no good for Trump. I mean, his numbers are dropping, obviously. And this, what I have said for so long is this is the third rail for sort of that set, right,

of the QAnon set. This is something they love more than they love Trump. that they stick to. And it is, if you spend any time online in those places, which I suggest you don't, they, this is something that is, it's like, it's their, it's their foundational pillar of their, of Epstein. And so that's why you see Boebert or Mace or any of these people going that way. And of course, you know, the, the, the, the, the obvious Democratic presidential candidate Marjorie Taylor Green these days, how much she's gone. like on this topic. She's been hard on two things,

health affordability and this. Next week, she's going to announce herself a lesbian and start drinking kombucha, I think. I don't think we want her, but... As long as I can watch. Yeah, okay. You can say that.

But I think it's really... That's what you see. If you see someone like her or some others, what was interesting to me was Steve Bannon, who I also watch on your behalf, said... He says to me really interesting. He said, the president is imperfect, but he's divine, but he's divine, but he's a divine providence.

And I was like, which was crazy. And so we have to stick with him in this time. He used all kinds of weird military metaphors, which is interesting for Trump, because obviously bonespurs. But he, what was interesting about divine, that he's imperfect, though, so we have to stick with him because it's divine providence. And to me, saying, okay, he might be a pedophile, but he's God's pedophiles. So we have to, like, it's not, it's a problematic argument to make for most of the American people. That's not the foot you want to lead with. No.

That's a terrible bumper sticker. Yeah. If I had to speculate, it would be that there's going to be a soft release where they're going to release something that will be highly redacted, highly massage, that'll leave in all the names of people who happen to be Democrats, and there'll be a lot of names that will be redacted, and they will pretend that it's a full release. and that there'll be enough that it makes them look bad, but the really crazy stuff will somehow be deleted, redacted. There's supposed to be videos, photographs, etc. Like there's an, like an Andrew-level photograph kind of thing. Yeah, but we have as personal attorney running the Department of Justice,

so I just wouldn't take anything for granted. I would guess they're going to try and do just enough to pretend they release the files and the documentation without actually releasing the files. I mean, I have never seen someone act so guilty. Right. You know, occasionally, my dad gets into the trash and we'll get like a box trapped on her head and goes flailing around, throwing, trying to throw the box off. I feel like she's imitating the president.

Could anyone act more guilty right now? Could anyone literally act more guilty than the president is acting right now? Right. Because if there's any veracity, think about. He's calling it a hopes, you know, again. But think about what people have forgiven him for. So, and there have been a lot of very high-profile people who've gone down to Epstein's Island and have said, this is a terrible error in judgment. I don't know what I was thinking of. And they get a little bit, they get a little bit of criticism. And then for the most part, the public has moved on. So the fact that he is so scared just sort of naturally implies that there's a lot more than a lot of other people were guilty of. He just could not. He just seems if there was, if these files in any way were just, bad. You would think he'd want to just get it out and say, you've forgiven me for worse.

Yeah. So this, it just smells so bad. What's happening right now in the White House? Fuck if I know. Like in that room. I just know, all I know is Melania's not there. That's the only they tore down her house. But what so, so where does it was, so it probably, if it, two things, two things, then we'll move on. If he doesn't, if he doesn't, If this passes, and I guess to his desk and he vetoes it, that keeps it in the news, right, a veto. If he pardons Jelaine Maxwell, who seems to have been lying based on these emails quite a bit, which, of course, because she's a heinous monster who should be thrown down a hole. But so he could pardon her. That's another moment of what in the hell.

And then the files could come out, right? The actual files. Yeah, but I mean, this is something I'm more confident in. She's already been parted. I mean, they're just waiting. I think they're just going to wait until this comes down or until he's in his last few months in office. And the fix is already in.

All of a sudden, she gets transferred to, you know, lower security prison and has a nice life. There's reports now that she's, like, ordering around people. A prison guard, I think, went on record saying, I'm sick of being this woman's bitch. Like, it's clear word has come down to treat her differently. She likely promised to do something in exchange for that. And the thing that I find, look, it's terrible that people this awful get set free.

I get the moral argument and the moral indignance. What I think is a bigger tragedy, though, is that the infrastructure of clemency and pardon is a really wonderful thing we have in the United States. And that is we recognize that our justice system is a crude instrument. And a lot of people, unfortunately, end up incarcerated for life or tens of years. and we find evidence that they, in fact, are innocent of their crimes, or that because of some three strikes law, but because they stole an antenna from a grocery store, they're spending the rest of their life in prison. There are dozens of not hundreds of talented clemency lawyers

trying to review these cases to let people out and grant pardons to people who deserve them. And this is totally perverted, bastardized, and taken all resources away from what has been a unique and, quite frankly, wonderful thing about our Justice Department, and that is the examination of clemency that leads to pardons. Instead, it's just essentially like everything else in our nation, whether it's the White House, whether it's health care, whether it's our food supply, we have now decided to monetize pardons. I mean, I got to be honest, if one of my kids was in prison, I'm being very honest here. I would start giving millions of dollars to the GOP. I would get to a dinner. I'd get next to them, and I'd basically say 10 million bucks, get my kid out. And I think there's a

one in three chance, I could get my son out of prison right now if I had enough money. And that perverts the whole notion of justice and also takes away from the fact that the pardon process in America has been a really worthwhile process. Listen, this is what we're going to move on, but one of the things, I think what's going to happen is there's going to be, like you said, we're a visual species. Yeah. There's going to be a picture. There's going to be a video. So there are videos. That's what I understand. Yeah. So I'm still waiting. for the P video. That's the one I want to say. That one, I don't know if there's a video of that, and allegedly, allegedly.

Okay, we're going to move on. This is something a lot more better looking. Very quickly, Jack Schlossberg, the 32-year-old grandson, President John F. Kennedy, is entering the race for Congress in retiring representative Jerry Nadler's district, is Manhattan. Schlaasberg first gained attention during the 2024 election with his viral social media videos that mixed shirtless content and political commentary. What is happening to? the Kennedys. In his campaign video, he said every, this country is facing a crisis at every level. Does being handsome connected and shirtless qualify you for Congress these days? Or do you have to be young to? What do you think about him running? There's a lot of very good-looking

people running in that district, by the way, very handsome. Spoiler alert, yeah. Look, in America, so we've made huge progress around female participation in higher education. We're making a lot of progress in the C-suite. It's gone from 18% to 27%. The primary consideration for the only real criteria that's absolute across almost every elected representative that goes to D.C. is that they have a college degree. And for the last 40 years, there's been more women graduating from college. And right now it's 60-40. It's actually going to be about two to one. And despite the fact that the primary qualification to be an elected representative in this country is a college degree. And there are vastly more women now getting

college degrees, we still only have 26% elected representatives. We are wildly sexist when it comes to our elected representatives. And if you reverse engineer it, I think it goes to something very instinctual, and it's the following. Unfortunately, we conflate voice, depth of voice, and height with leadership skills. So show me someone who's five foot two and has an IQ of 140 and a high pitch voice. Hello, school board president. Hello, school board president. Show me someone six two with a good head of hair and 105 IQ. Hello, Mr. Senator. We are hugely, Texas.

If I had that guy's voice and Gavin Newsom's hair, I'd be fucking leading on Kyle Schiefer president right now. And the reason why, the reason why I believe that most likely it's Governor Newsom or Governor Pritzker is they give off really awesome dad

energy. If you don't think we're sexist, just two terms. Secretary Clinton and Vice President Harris, How the fuck did they lose? Anyways, looks, there's just no getting around it. I'm that guy. I want a good-looking person to run for president. I think it connotes leadership.

I think we are wildly luxus in this nation. So I'm less concerned with trying to progress the social virtue of our nation. And I am totally obsessed with whoever gets Democrats in the White House. I want someone tall and dreamy. I will vote for this guy. I will show up and run. La Roche-Bosea, off the small of his back. I am, I am down.

I think that guy's a tall drink on lemonade. We need more of that. Good for him. By the way, could AOC Benny hotter? That's why she might be president. Jesus Christ. Scott just offered her a giant sum of money to primary Chuck Schumer. Does she ask about me?

No, she didn't. I texted her. She did not text back. Same thing with Emily Radicowski. She's playing that game, right? No, she's not playing that game. She's completely, I would say, completely uninterested in you. I get it.

Yeah. Surrender to the dog. No, no. I'm not entirely sure she knows who you are. So, all right. You know, I expose myself and you jab. You know, maybe she does now because Scott is having the number one book in America right now. Notes on being a man.

Kara, Kara, I don't like to give into the trappings of your capitalist. metrics. Hello ladies. Number one. Fucking Debbie Brubaker went with Bobby Barnes to the prom. Did Bobby Barnes write in New York Times number one bestseller? I don't think so.

You know, this afternoon, I found out about it when Mel Robbins, you know, let them, that lady, texted me and she goes, I'm so thankful it was Scott who knocked me out of number one of the number one. And I'm sure she was thinking, that you fucking asshole.

Let him Anyway Just by the way I want to say publicly You could not have been more supportive and generous Thank you very much Well you know Better you do the better I do

That's how it goes No No no no I'm very pleased that you're doing I knew it was he didn't think it was going to do as well I did Because I believe in you Thank you I appreciate that

Anyway, a quick business story, and then we're going to get to questions from the audience in a second. Let's do this one. Kim Kardashian's shapewear brand skims just secured $225 million in new funding led by Goldman Sachs, bringing the company's valuation to $5 billion. That's a big jump from the $4 billion valuation just two years ago, and a six-year-old company is expected to surpass $1 billion in net sales this year. The brand plans to use the cash to expand internationally with stores planned for London in Dubai by mid-20206 after opening 18 U.S. locations

and partnering with Nike early this year. They also had a best-selling thong that had pubic hair on it that you can't get, you can't buy. I don't know if you know that. I don't know if you got that, but should they go pubic, I mean public? Sorry. What do you think about this?

Because you've covered, you've done commerce companies all over the Ying Yang. Yeah, there's quite a few companies. Well, what's unique about her company is her sister, has a beauty brand that's supposed to have been valued at a billion dollars. Rihanna has a beauty brand. The health wellness space, Jessica Simpson has a company valued at a billion dollars. They generally top out at a few hundred million and kind of a billion dollars in valuation. What's unique about this is it's worth, like, leasing the private market's $5 million.

I don't think she'll go public. Typically, these companies get big enough and then they hook up with a partner as Rihanna did that provides them with global distribution, more capital. Haley Bieber. Better brand management. So I don't, I don't, this is extraordinary. Now, to the larger question around whether it goes public, basically the number of public companies has been cut in half over the last 40 years because of the regulatory burden, the costs, the scrutiny every three months,

having to report your numbers. It becomes difficult. You become more short-term-minded. And typically, the only reason you went public was for a financing event or to get liquidity, such you had a stock that you could make acquisitions. for. And now there's so much money in the capital markets. She doesn't have to. You can get liquidity, and it's just easier to run a private company. So I don't see any reason why she would go public. So where does it go? I mean, these things, commerce, as you know, goes like this.

Yeah, but what she's trying to do. Glossier, I'm thinking of some other ones that didn't. Typically, most brands don't scale beyond a couple hundred million dollars unless they become multi-channel. She's opening, I think she's got 19 stores. She's opening. I think she's got 19 stores. She's opening. She's opening more. So it's just what's old as new again. It's multi-channel. She's done a great job. Most of these brands have sort of an inclusivity part of the brand. And she's done that. She's a remarkable entrepreneur. I don't think there's any taking away from her. I don't have any like remarkable inside here. Any thoughts here? What's going to happen to it? No, it's a really good brand. I have to say. I had Kim Kardashian on stage many years ago. And I swear to God, I call it. I wanted to because she was the top person in social on very early nascent social network. She was absolutely number one. And she also made a mobile game that suddenly was a loser and then was a winner.

And just all these, and I do, you can be offended by her. I get that completely. But one of the things that was interesting is all these entrepreneurial efforts, right, that they were doing. And they were very entrepreneurial families, some might say kind of. But in terms of wealth creation, the sweet spot for celebrities with large social violence, it's sort of discouraging that this is the truth. If I walk into a publisher now, I get triple the advance only because my social following is five times what it was the last time I talked to them. Social is now kind of everything, whether it's trying to paying up to be in a movie, or your brand deal, they look at your social, they look at your social following.

But the sweet spot for celebrity in terms of wealth creation is to find a cool little brand and say, I'm Zendaya, I will start wearing on. and I will be the public face or one of the public faces. Roger Federer is a billionaire. Roger Federer's made more money in terms of cash liquidity than any of the stars we've mentioned because it's liquid because he attached himself early in exchange for a large equity stake and on. So the sweet spot for celebrities is find a great brand that has incredible product, management, great distribution, and then say, I will become your face in exchange for two, three,

five percent of the company. Yeah, Michael Jordan. From a wealth creation standpoint, you want to attach. yourself to a brand early and get equity as opposed to going through the rigmarole of actually starting the company. We will tell, Kim, I think she'll be doing just fine without us. In any case, we need to move on, but first, Scott, I'm hungry. Are you hungry? Because we have a surprise for you. From that iconic Chicago institution, the Wiener Circle, please welcome the lead guest services representative, Poochie. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi, Poochie. What the fuck

up. Mr. Scott. Fuck you too, okay? Do you know this? Hi. Hi. I bring you fucking charter from Chicago's on Weena Circle.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, I'm going to introduce myself. I am Poochie. I'm the heavy bitch in charge of Weenna Circle. Okay. It's nice to me, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, you're talking. She's all the shit, okay. Yeah, what Carol, she bought me here. Yeah, I did. To give you a little shit. But I think I'm going to be on your side today. We're going to get on this bitch today, okay? Go ahead.

Go ahead. So the next time she's giving you shit, you just say, hey, you know what bitch, you look like Lacey off Kakeney and Lacey, okay? And then when he give you shit You just say you look like a fucking cock You got a dickhead Oh, okay Exactly

Well, of course This building ain't got a fucking elevator I mean, he got a microwave So eat the shit, okay And fucking enjoy it, all right? All right. All right. Thank you.

Bye. Nice to meet you. We did want some... We love Pucci. I thought Scott would be a little sensitive. I was not expecting that. I know that. They're usually much more abusive, honestly,

and I was worried about you, to be honest with you, because you're such a delicate flower. Anyway, thank you, Pucci. We'll take a quick break and be back to take some audience questions. So line up and we'll get going. Support for the show comes

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that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business. This is where Odu comes in.

It's the only business software you'll ever need. Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up.

Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try O-D-for-free at O-D-O-D-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-com. Scott, we're back recording live from Chicago. We're ready to take some questions from the audience, and we love hearing from you.

We love answering questions of the audience. It's been our favorite thing on this tour so far. So let's bring up the lights, I guess. We can see this a little bit. Oh, who are you? Hey, Carol. Hey, Scott. It's former presidential candidate, Andrew Yang. Yes. Hey, Chicago. It's great to see you all.

Go for it, Andrew. Scott, congratulations on the phenomenal new book. It's so needed right now. I'm going to ask what's on so many people's minds. Would you run for president? And if so, what would your platform be? What about you, Andrew? uh i'm i'm here asking the question of scott de kara i mean the and yet i just asked one of you are you going to run again uh you know i'll i'll do whatever scott tells me to do uh no but my platform would be a chicken in every pot and a cealis and every cupboard i think you do

very well my friend no care and i care and i so i have the primary qualifications to run for office i'm a narcissist and i got a little bit of money and what i've decided and I think you've decided this too, is that I'm coming back. I'm moving back from London. I want to be in the fight. I don't think this is a time to leave America. I think this is a time to come back. And Karen and I are very committed to bringing attention to, as Governor Prisker said, what we think is an outstanding bench. And I was doing an interview today. And they said, well, what's your plan for the next, you know, several years? And I'm, and you can hold me to task here.

I'm going to spend my time, treasure, and talent to trying to flip Congress and put a Democrat back in the White House. Thank you, guys. Excellent. Thank you, Andrew. Everyone, Andrew Yang. Thank you, Andrew. One of the great things Andrew did was showing that we do need more choice in our

electoral system, the two-party system really needs to be rethought of in a lot of ways. I don't know how that's going to happen. It's happened many times in our history, but it's really important for people to be able to run and not get, like, moaned down by whatever the Republicans or the Democrats. Next. Hi, Karen, Scott. My name is Rohill. I'm a student at the University of Chicago. Cool. Love that. Oh, my God. We love that school. I had kind of a two-part question. So the first part, today the White House said they're not like October inflation and jobs data is probably never going to be released. So my question is, what do you think the Fed is going to do in December?

So someone from the U.S. in Miami would have never asked that question. And then you're at the right school. Do you take this? I will. Go ahead. Yeah. And then the second part was just I think it was Atlanta Fed. president, he said he was going to retire. So what do you think that, like, what do you think

Trump's going to do with that? He'll put in someone, well, what do we think he's going to do? Come on. At this point, it's so funny in Washington, all these people are like, can you believe he did that? I'm like, yes. Yes, at this point, I can believe what, you know, if he, like, almost, if he ran naked across the White House lawn, I'd be like, of course he did, because he needs to get the focus off of that. I know, gross. But with the, with the second one, what's happening with They have to release those numbers, actually, and they're going to be bad jobs. But there are a lot of people who are relying on other numbers, which are showing jobs down 50,000 jobs or something like that.

And so they might just do it because he's so, he just doesn't do it, even if it's illegal. He just doesn't, he won't release it, and what are you going to do, like kind of thing. But I do think, you know, whether it's Goldman Sachs, there's a bunch of other consumer sentiment indicators that show pretty bad economic problems coming forward. And so into the void will come lots of information and it will be a problem for him because it won't be organized or under his control. And so I suspect they'll start doing it. But they're not going to be good numbers. And with the Fed, I don't know. It just, I think things are going down. I think things are starting to really decline according to the statistics as I've seen. So probably they will lower interest rates.

I could give a shit. Two things. Okay. The first is, and this is serious, if you want an internship this summer, you're hired. I'm 100% serious. 100% serious. Any young man, any young man who is frequently remarkable enough

to get into the University of Chicago and has the presence you're demonstrating, if you're interested, come work at Proptea Media this summer. Two. True story. I just, I'm going through the manufactured stress process of a kid applying to college, And we just did the college tour, and we did two schools here, Northwestern and the University of Chicago.

And, yeah, we're still in that hallucination phase that our kid is that remarkable. Anyways, University of Chicago, we're roaming around and the, you know, the high EQ, ethnically ambiguous tour guide. Not sure why threw that in. Somebody made the mistake. First off, parents should never be a, it should be a criminal offense for parents to ask questions during the tour. Yes, indeed. Three different mother size. I've heard it's not safe here, literally three times.

Anyways, somebody made the mistake of asking the admissions rate. The admissions rate, and he said it's 4% in the union of Chicago. First off, anyone that has an endowment over a billion dollars that is not growing their freshman class faster than population growth should lose their tax tree status because they're no longer a public servant. They're a hedge fund offering classes. And actually, University of Chicago is better than most. They've increased while their endowments gone up sevenfold. They have increased their freshman class 40%, which is better than most of these elitist, elitist rejectionist colleges.

So when we heard that it was 4%, I said to my son, I like to freak him out because he's so fucking woke. And I turned to him in the middle of the tour. I'm like, let's go get a burger. And he said, can we do that? I'm like, yeah. And he said, well, why do you want to leave? I'm like, let's break up with this bitch

before she breaks up with us. And I personify. I love to personify every university, just for anyone that's not offended yet. And we went to seven universities and nine days, and my personification of Chicago was the guy in a park who's barefoot, who's feeding pigeons who supposedly won a Nobel Prize.

That's Chicago. And Northwestern is the gay son we all wanted. Thank you for the question. I will see you this summer, young man. All right. I don't want to say my kids got in, but that's okay. Your kids got into Chicago? One of them, yeah.

I didn't know that. Very impressive. Yeah. So, but he went somewhere else. Go blue. Go blue. Go blue. Come on.

on. I'm sorry. Go Blue. He got to choose. I didn't get to. I love the University of Chicago. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Pat, and I don't have a question. I just have a big thank you, Kara, because you are so terrific. Thank you. Gosh. That's not a question. Scott, you're pretty great too, but Kara's better. Pretty great. That's okay. I'm terrific. He's pretty gay. Yeah. Good. I like that. The reason I really want to thank you is because back in 2022, I called in to your other podcast on and asked about a dating quandary that I had. And you answered me with some really wonderful advice to think more widely and just live your life and see how it goes. You also invited me to be a lesbian, but I'm straight. That's okay.

What happened? happen. I found an amazing partner and I came with him for three years. Yay. He's here now. He's just too shy to be here. And really, thank you so much for both of you, widening my life in so many different ways with your perspectives, your brilliance, and your humor. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm always trying to do things for the heterosexuals. I'm always, John. You people need some help really badly. Anyway, sorry, Scott. Just one fun fact, and then a lesbian joke.

So this is true. Widows are happier after their husband dies. And widowers are less happy. And the reason why the lesbians get divorced at a much higher rate than straight or gay couples is because they're both listening. You just told me. Nothing wrong with that. I'm a psychoanalyst.

Thank you. and congratulations. Live, live, live. Remember, like Auntie Maim says, life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving. Thank you. All right, we have, how many,

two more questions? One more question. Here we go. My name is Paula. Hi, Paula. And I'm old enough that even with using only my initials based on gender, I wasn't eligible for any of those schools

you were talking about. But my, and I really appreciate the dynamic, real, raw, conversations that you all are helping us have across the country. And the question I have is, how can we use existing real estate, private-only owned real estate, to add to our housing stock that we can solve the housing issue and challenge? Because without consistent sleeping places, we're going to keep running around in circles. That's a great question to end on on housing.

It's something actually, I've done a lot of recent reporting on. There is most astonishing innovation going on in materials and creation of housing. The way we do housing right now is so artisanal. It's ridiculous. There's all these ways to build all kinds of housing that is just innovative and safe and quick and no problems. happening all over the place. The problem, governments that are nimbie, like these nimbib fucking governments, you've got to start being able to build housing near, near subways, near ways people can get in and out of cities, for example. I think our homeless problem is so

derived. It's because they don't have homes. Like, they get stressed. They get, mental illness comes with stress, all kinds of things. You feel insecure. Again, if I were running president, it would be two things as I think minimum wage would be one of them get everybody to a working wage which would be $25 and the second one get them fucking houses like that's the thing but it's not there's so many innovations going on in materials that it's it would blow your mind to see what's happening they just aren't getting deployed and so we've got to get a politician that says as president I will build eight million whatever the number is I will build eight million homes work with governors to build these things and get the regulation out of the way

to be able to do it. And you can do it safely. It doesn't mean not being safe. I'm not one of those people. But you have to be able to use all these incredible innovations in AI design, all kinds of things. They can do it fast and quick and build really good homes for people because I don't think people can be stable if they don't. I think our society can't be stable without homes. I'm unclear about what's out there in existing real estate that is so privatized. It is. We can't turn it into. The hedge funds are buying all the homes.

You know that. 38% of sales are now. And how do we, can we address that? At the same time, build, repurpose or reuse or something. So it shouldn't be drill baby drill. It should be build baby build. And there's a lot we could do, whether it's tax subsidies. I don't believe in rent control that just takes housing prices over.

It reduces a stock. You should weaponize the private. sector with tax credits, you have to get rid of YIMB. America and we're all guilty of this has embraced a rejectionist exclusionary culture. Once we have college degrees, we applaud the dean for rejecting 70, 80, 90 percent of applicants because we're all under the delusion that our kid is in the top 1 percent. And I can prove to every one of you, or 99 percent of our children are not in the top 1 percent. And what happens at NYU when the dean announces we rejected 90% of our applicants. We applaud. In my view, that's tantamount to the head of a homeless

shelter bragging that he or she turned away 90% of the people who showed up last night. We're public servants, not fucking air messbags. The second thing is, and a lot of us are guilty of this, the moment we have a home, we become very concerned with traffic. And we start showing up to the local review board and want to sequester new housing permits because all that does is take the value of our own home down. So what do we need to do? We need to stop this bullshit rejectionary, exclusionary culture that takes our asset prices up and start unleashing massive housing. My favorite housing program, there's a ton of really interesting ones. I love this. Seniors and young men sign up. Seniors have homes that are too big. They need help. And young men are moving in

with them. I love that program. Yeah, the young people. That's an astonish. That is an astine. You should look into those because those are fascinating because it helps everybody because we also have a crisis with the elderly too in terms of care and the expensiveness of it and there's all kinds of programs like but again what we want to leave you this is there's lots of innovation and it's easy to doom scroll all over the place we well he does um but you do a little bit don't you know i do yeah addicted to my phone um what's really important is you all you know someone's like how are we gonna how are we going to survive this and i'm oh and my kids say it to me too and i said well get the fuck up you know and start walking

because you can see it start to change. You saw it in the last election. Look, if they were great Republicans, we'd support them to, like, right now it's really ugly. We try really hard to be, to try to find, you know, comedy between everyone. Obviously, we don't agree with everything. But we see great hope for this country.

And we think one of the reasons we're on this tour is we love talking to people. So we hope we leave you with that, with a positive feeling. And we really appreciate it. We love Chicago. You guys have been a great crowd. And you can catch selected shows from this tour on YouTube and in your podcast feeds. That's all we've got time today.

Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Lera and Eamon, and Zoyner, Margaret Taylor Griffin, and Kay Gallagher. And you're Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros. Miserra and Dan Ceylon, amazing ground support provided by Trish, Hargato, Kelly Schwanter, and Kelly Lynch. Special thanks to MSG Entertainment in Chicago Theater.

A big shout out to the Vox Experiential Team, Tara Riley, Courtney Given, Abby Aronofsky, and Caitlin Burla, and a shark-corawas of Ox Media executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine of Ox Media. Thank you, Chicago. Support for the show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough,

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