Pivot - Google and Apple team up to track COVID-19, Uber drivers face unemployment hurdles, and Robert Reich says 30% of people may be out of work by summer

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

Kara and Scott talk about tech giants Google and Apple teaming up to track COVID-19 cases on iPhones and Androids. They also discuss the hurdles ride share drivers are experiencing as they attempt to apply for unemployment insurance; outdated Labor Department guidelines and a lack of data is slowing that process. As Congress thinks about a fourth bail out package, the US Postal Service is asking for funds. Kara and Scott talk about whether USPS should be privatized. Friend of Pivot, economist, former US Labor Secretary Professor Robert Reich joins the show to discuss the stimulus package, unemployment rates and what Joe Biden needs to do to engage voters. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for Pivot comes from Virgin Atlantic. Too many of us are so focused on getting to our destination that we forgot to embrace the journey. Well, when you fly Virgin Atlantic, that memorable trip begins right from the moment you check in. On board, you'll find everything you need to relax, recharge, or carry on working. Buy flat, private suites, fast Wi-Fi, hours of entertainment, delicious dining, and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. delicious dining and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. Check out virginatlantic.com for your next trip to London and beyond, and see for yourself how traveling for business can always be a pleasure. to get your customers to notice you, Constant Contact has what you need to grab their attention. Constant Contact's award-winning marketing platform offers all the automation, integration,

and reporting tools that get your marketing running seamlessly, all backed by their expert live customer support. It's time to get going and growing with Constant Contact today. Ready, set, grow. Go to ConstantContact.ca and start your free trial today. Go to ConstantContact.ca for your free trial. ConstantContact.ca. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. How are you, Cara? Happy Easter, Passover. I did. It was lovely. I had it with my ex-wife, my son, her nephew, Amanda, the baby, and some dogs and a cat. So, yes, it was lovely. That's nice. And what did you guys do? It was a very San Francisco kind of thing in D.C.

And what did you guys do? It was a very San Francisco kind of thing in D.C. Listen, I was going to talk about the Pope delivering a lovely Easter mass alone in St. Peter's Basilica. Or Andrea Bocelli singing from Milan, which was beautiful. Livestream around the world. But I think let's talk about us. Because I think it really is all about us. The Pope or us. That's a tough one.

Pope, us. I'm going with us. I'm going with us. I'm going with us. Me too. So New York Media, which is part of Vox, which makes New York Magazine, which we love, is our new crash pad, which I think they don't understand what's happened. I've got a message for our new EIC, David Haskell. We're the bossiest employees you'll ever have.

But we get to hang around with Olivia Nuzzi and others there, the great writers there. And we get to talk about Andrew Cuomo's nipples now. This is so exciting. I was not expecting that. That escalated fast. We went from New York mag to Cuomo's nipples. By the way,

that guy's a dirty little dog. Did you see Olivia's piece? She wrote a great piece this week about Trump, but she wrote about the nipple gate, so it was fascinating. So you can help me here because there was a lot of traffic

back and forth about Pivot moving to New York Magazine. I didn't even know we were at Vox. And I don't know what any of this means. Tell me. Tell me. First off, if anyone can—I guess I never really understood what Vox is, so now it's not that important. But what does this mean for us?

What does this mean for the dog and the jungle cat now that we're at New York Magazine? It means nothing. It means we just get to go to better parties, I guess. I don't know. I don't really know what they—parties. It's just New York Magazine. You've read New York Magazine. So we feel like we're saucier and it fits better. You know, Vox Media owns Vox.com. It owns Recode. It owns all kinds of things. And it also owns New York Magazine. And so we are going over there and our stuff has been appearing there recently. And so it's, we have, you know, we have such a media business sensibility, Wall Street kind of stuff. It fits in, you know,

it's just, it's media. Nobody but insiders care actually, but we still have a lovely picture in the thing. And we love, we love everyone at Vox, but we now love New York media more because that's the kind of people we are. We just switch allegiances like so fast.

But I don't think it, it doesn't mean anything. We just continue to be who we are. I think that's really, that's it. Do we have any choice? No, they don't have any choice. As you get older, as you get older, you become more like yourself, which is neither good for either of us. That's not, that's not good.

I have been the same way since I've been. Oh, here we go. Here we go. So, you know, what's awesome is we're talking about doing some sort of pivot slash New York magazine event. Like Brooklyn meets South by Southwest meets dysfunction. I think it's going to be awesome. Yes, everyone's going to wear hazmat suits that are really beautiful.

I mean, we can't do an event for a while, Scott. You need to put on your little hat. Oh, come on. Let's get the Fauci school not in the Fox News school. We cannot. There will be no meetings for a while. And when they do, we will be back with one. That's what's going to happen. And there's going to be just light touching

when we do our event. A light touch. A loving light touch. Well, that works well because I'm a gentle lover, Kara. No, no. You're not to touch anybody. I'm going to keep you in a hazmat suit and mask and gloves for as long as possible. I'll tell you the pandemic is still going on. There you go.

So that you think that. We'll have a whole fake news thing around you so you're getting news. I'll have Erica pull it off with Rebecca. And you will think we're still in the pandemic in 20. My wife has yet another excuse. 25. But there's a pandemic. There's a pandemic. But there's a pandemic.

Stay away from me. All right. We're going to get to our... This is... Anyway, we're very excited. New York Media is great. And David Haskell is great. And everybody else is great.

Anyway. All right, Scott. We're going to get back to tech and business. Because there's so much going on. There's so much going on. We've been talking about how privacy might change as the government tries to start tracking the spread of COVID-19. Now Google and Apple are teaming up to build software and smartphones that helps track the spread.

By the way, they already have software and smartphones to track you. The companies will be releasing a new tool that will be built into the operating systems of billions of iPhones and Androids around the world. Here's how it will all work. People would opt in to use the tracking system and voluntarily report if they become infected. Then other phones in the vicinity will alert you if you're in close distance with someone who has been reported to having COVID-19. Once someone reports their information as a public health app, the tool will send the phone's anonymous identifiers connected to a device to a central computer server. Other phones will constantly check those servers for the broadcast beacons of devices that come near in the past 14 days. If there's a match, those people receive an alert that they likely have come and contacted. Both Tim Cook and Apple CEO and Suna Prachai, Google CEO, tweeted that

the tool has strong privacy protections. Scott, I just want your reaction to this. So, I'm very much in favor of it. I understand there's a fear that governments use crises as an opportunity to invade people's liberties and then they never give those liberties back. Under the cloud cover of crisis or war, they violate people's personal freedoms. I think FDR or Eisenhower actually said it best. He said, I'm not going to violate people's freedoms in order to protect them when Hoover or whoever it was wanted to start spying on everybody. But for the most part, look, as long as Facebook's not involved, I think that Google and app, Tim Cook, from a brand standpoint, has doubled down on privacy. You could argue that they will get better in managing people's private information, which gives them a skill set we don't want them to have.

Right. But in general, look, testing and then tracing, the tracing is incredibly important. Yeah. And we have, we're supposed to be the most innovative place in the world. We have these unbelievable technologies. Everyone carries a smartphone. We have deep-pocketed, thoughtful, smart companies.

My sense is that is the equivalent of the Maytag factory being converted to produce B-24 super flying fortresses. I like it. What do you think? Listen, interestingly, I contacted both Sundar and Tim this weekend about a lot of governments are interested, and I was forwarded.

Did you tell them you work for New York Magazine? No, I did not. They don't care about it. They did ask about the baby. But listen, listen to me. I trust them, and I actually was forwarding things from governments who are very interested in using this, people I know in government. And I just forwarded these emails to them. But one of the things, if you had the third company here was listed as Facebook and Amazon, what would you do? I'd say no.

What if it was four of them? I just think, I think Facebook, Mark kept hoping, Mark kept saying, Zuckerberg and Sheryl kept saying, we and big tech, there's everyone else and there's Facebook. Facebook is an incredibly corrupt organization with a sociopath and his beard running around the world

doing tremendous damage. They are on the gold medal stand, a podium of a total lack of concern for the Commonwealth. Now, big tech abuses their power. They've overrun government. himself in a likable Alabama football in order to continue to violate anti-monopoly laws and put Spotify not out of business. But he's abusing his power, but that's what a CEO of a capitalist company does. Google has all kinds of blood on their hands, but their leadership there, whether it's Sundar or Susan Wojcicki, shows some sense of comity of man. They're both such powerful organizations. They have the skills, the budgets.

This is an exceptional time. Okay, all right. Yeah, Facebook would be a totally different ballgame. What would if you added Amazon in there? How would you feel about that? I think Amazon is done. I would feel fine. Look, I think Amazon, Facebook, and Google,

it's like a little bit of cumin, a little bit of thyme, some chicken, and then cyanide, i.e. Facebook, shows up, and it makes the meal a totally different complexion. But if you look at Amazon, I think Amazon deserves credit. And I've been very critical of Amazon. I think that we should break their asses up after this is all over. But if you look at, I have a lot of students working at Amazon, and I know personally that they're working their asses off to try and A, it's in their best interest, but also they do see themselves as playing a critical, essential role. And the supply chain here, you want to talk about a scary situation?

What if there was a modern-day Cesar Chavez who went and unionized every warehouse worker at Walmart and Amazon and said, at noon tomorrow, everybody just walk out and demand that we double their wages or the food supply just shuts down. Well, that didn't happen. You want to talk about panic? Yeah, right now. I mean, these companies are essential, and they're all working very, very hard. All right, Mr. Tech.

But let me just say, they do have very different ideas around privacy. Google and Apple certainly do. Well, say more. You know this better than I do. Well, they do. I mean, they have a different attitude around it. And I think Google does ask for more information. They're constantly, I turn off all the Google things on Maps, for example, and they're constantly asking me for,

once I turn off on Apple, they leave me alone until I come back and change things. Okay. But that's the inherent trait. And I'm sorry to interrupt, is that Google has said to, Apple has said to rich people that privacy is a luxury. And in exchange for buying a $1,500 phone and paying $99 for a power cord that costs us $1.20 to produce in Shenzhen, you get us pulling only 200 data points a day from your iPhone. Whereas Android has said, hey, rest of the world that can't afford the monthly household income in Turkey for a phone, we're going to give you a phone for free, but we're going to give you a phone for free, but we're going to molest your privacy.

And the majority of the world is cool with that. I know it has a lot of bad ramifications. So there's kind of a market for both, but Apple's doubled down on privacy, which unfortunately has become a luxury item of the rich. All right. Okay. All right. What do you think about government getting involved? Because I do think what you just said,

people do not take back this issue. Do you know what I mean? They don't take back the power once they get it, once the ability to track people. Now, they've been doing it before. Let's just be clear. This is not new. Government, you know, whether it was through Edward Snowden or other, governments have been using these cell phones for decades since they've been around trying to track people. They've been trying to get more and more access. And of course, the big fight between Apple and the government over encryption. So it's an interesting development. Now, I have always thought that the Snowden thing created such a disconnect between government and tech. That was a problem around Russia and everything else, the relationship. So this may restore that relationship. I think it's just a question of who

gets the more prevalence of information. And the other part is people not consenting. Now, a lot of people who are sick may not consent to be saying they're infected, too. That's the other thing. If you're worried about insurance companies or anything else, you may not want to report that you're infected. Well, we've got to, that's absolutely right. And you said this, you had an insight that stuck with me. You said this all kind of comes back to ensuring people have some baseline level of health coverage such that we don't create bad behaviors. And that's the type of bad behavior. If someone's worried about their health insurance or not being able to get it, maybe they're not as forthcoming

as they should be. But my thesis all along around privacy and security is you think, well, along around privacy and security is you think, well, why on earth is the U.S. government not been more proactive in pushing back on bad actors, specifically Facebook and Google? And my thesis all along has been the following. The Senate Intelligence Committee has a public hearing, and they berate them, and we're really mad at you, Mark. We're really mad at you, Sundar. And then they go into their private hearings, and they say, all right, here's the 2,200 names of people who pose a security threat. You're going to give us fucking everything on these people, every movement. And then we're going to go out and we're going to publicly berate you and flog you, but then we're not going to do shit in exchange for you buttressing our national security and covert spy actions with your incredible data sets. And I think there's an

implicit agreement between the government and these agencies that we will continue to give you information on the bad guys, but you are going to back the fuck off when it comes to certain DOJ and certain fights. And the thing is, I don't think the public is privy to that deal, and maybe nor should we be, but there's something going, there's a lot going on here behind the scenes that we are not privy to. 100%. That is absolutely true. They're constantly in talks. And I do think, you know, it's interesting, the cheering also has to happen, people are going to give me a hard time with China and others too, because a lot of this information, China's our principal partner going forward. And the breakdown, you know, the New York Times had an amazing story this weekend

about sort of what happened, how incompetent the White House was. And that's why Trump had a coronary occlusion this weekend about everything. But one of the parts that I thought was most interesting was the China hawks versus the China trade people who wanted to do a trade deal. We have to have a good relationship or some relationship with China, especially around data. We have to in some way, because in this case, they didn't report enough. There was hostility, and then there was worry about making them mad. In terms of pandemics, there has to be cooperation with all governments around the world around this data. And I think the Chinese realize that too. The Chinese,

I mean, our brands, let's be honest, the China and U.S. brands come out of this crisis with additional core association of corrupt and incompetent. The Chinese were not forthcoming about data of actually what was going to happen, which caused a lot more death and disability than needed to happen. Despite the fact that we had more time to prepare for it, we have more money, We spend more on healthcare. We have let more people be infected and die than any other nation. We have been totally incompetent around this. And both nations will have to answer for that. But a pandemic doesn't really give a shit about your political party or your borders.

And we have absolutely a mutual shared interest in ensuring this doesn't happen again. If there were ever a moment to call on our superpower as a species, and that's cooperation across borders. Look, if the British, the Russians, and the Americans can figure out a way to get along in the middle of the 20th century,

we can figure out a way to get along with China around pandemics. It just absolutely, and I know a lot of people in China, so do you. They have their own national interests, but we have this mutually shared interest and that is both nations really love Nespresso pods. Both nations really love their Netflix or whatever the equivalent is over there. And the economy, I mean, think about the economic interest here if the economy gets entirely shut down again. So I think you're absolutely right. The question is, what is the agency?

What is the systems for that shared cooperation when you have a president who is attacking what is one obvious shared system, and that's the World Health Organization? So how do we move forward? What is the infrastructure? What is the NATO? What is the United Nations, which a lot of people would argue has failed here? NATO has been tremendously effective. What's the construct? Well, that movie where the meteor was headed towards Earth and we all cooperated.

There we go. That's what we need. That's what we do. But I think you're right, 100%. I think you're right. I think the question is, if Apple and Google can collaborate, governments can collaborate. And yet, at the same time, do the fighting and the collaboration. Again, you're right. I think if we were in a relationship with Stalin, the most awful person on the planet, among the many awful people on the planet, one of the most, and it's critically important on these kind of things

to have some kind of cooperation. Again, probably behind the scenes, there's more than we realize, but at the same time, the language has to go down a lot. And then later we can discuss what happened here. But we have to take a quick break, come back with one big story. And we have a big friend of Pivot this week when we get back.

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But let's talk about Lyft and Uber drivers during the pandemic and part of the stimulus bill that is meant to help them and other gig workers. While the stimulus packages made unemployment resources available to some gig workers, there are unique obstacles for ride-share drivers that come from old state labor department guidelines upon who is eligible. So while the federal government has said that it's on its way, some states aren't quite prepared to make it happen. This has left gig workers, like a huge number of ride-sharing drivers, unable to collect their unemployment checks.

So Illinois didn't have a process. New York, the story isn't much better. Local drivers associations claim that Uber hasn't been providing New York's Department of Labor with the earnings data it needs to process unemployment insurance applications. With delays in the states, Uber finally acknowledged in email to drivers that it would take weeks before states could start processing claims and even longer before drivers received assistance. So, you know, I've talked to

some people at Uber. Things are, you know, the business is really down, down, down in the hole, essentially. But what do you think about this, this gig worker issue in terms of paying them, and specifically about ride-sharing drivers? I think Uber and Lyft are a menace to society. I think that these organizations have primarily made a small number of people exceptionally wealthy because they figured out software that has totally violated minimum wage standards and the dignity of work. We were outraged when fast food companies tried to put in place software that clocked people out. When McDonald's wasn't busy, we were outraged. But basically, they have institutionalized software such that you don't get paid unless they're

making money. And they've also figured out a way to call them contractors so that they're not obligated to give them health insurance, meaning that these people are in incredibly vulnerable positions when they put themselves in an enclosed space called a car with a third party that they don't know. We've put them in an incredibly vulnerable position despite the fact that first hundred employees at Uber probably made somewhere between $10 million and $1 billion each. We've put them in an incredibly compromised position economically where a large portion of them don't make minimum wage, so they feel as if they have to put themselves in harm's way. economically where a large portion of them don't make minimum wage, so they feel as if they have to put themselves in harm's way. And then fucking Dara Khasushahi, the new lipstick on cancer, has the gall to write a letter to government urging them to bail them out with unemployment. Meanwhile, Uber hasn't paid any federal income tax because they've taken advantage of our obsession

and our idolatry of innovators and run this stock up such that it's worth more than the auto industry, who is, by the way, continuing to pay their workers, by the way, pays people on average $27 an hour, by the way, gives people health insurance. So what do you really think, Scott? I mean, I'm going to stop you. I'm going to stop you. I do think, you know, their opposition to AB5, which I've called a health care bill, really, and the way we, it's not just them, it's we live off the backs of these people.

It's 100%. When you pay $4 and $5 for a long drive, it's crazy. You know you're getting a deal and you know who's not getting a deal, which is the driver in the front seat. So the question is, will, we just have to pay more for these rides. I mean, I just. If you're waiting on consumers, calling on consumers, better angels to go. Well, I really shouldn't pay $9.99 for that little black dress because I know the supply chain is unethical. I'm going to pay $29.99.

Don't hold your breath. I don't wear a black dress, but okay. There you go. What we need is regulations that say a company that's now worth more than U.S. auto industry has to pay taxes. A company where people have paid billions of dollars or have made billions of dollars needs to figure out a way to pay its people minimum wage and then not come crying to the government saying you need to give these people unemployment. Uber right now, here's an idea, Uber, pay your people. Here's an idea, do what the majority of companies are trying to do. And that is continue to pay people even if they can't work. Uber is still,

even after this crisis, you know, Uber, the decline, is still worth more than Ford General Motors and I think Fiat Chrysler. But everyone's talking about, well, what do they do? Their business is down. They do a secondary. They say, we're looking after our quote-unquote partners. We're going to pay these people 60%, 70% of their salary. We're going to give them danger pay. We're going to say, if you do this, the rates go up.

We're going to ask consumers to pay a lot more, to pay double rates. I think most consumers would do that. But there's been this enormous transfer, like everything, of stakeholder value from government who gets no revenues or little revenues other than capital gains tax from the people at Uber exercising their options. They don't get any tax revenue or very little tax revenue. And then Uber has created this infrastructure, this army of people that need unemployment, who have no health insurance. So Uber and Lyft and our idolatry of innovators have all come together to create an absolute menace and tax on society called ride hailing. It's fundamentally- And you're really, you are seeing it in this crisis because they're unprotected.

We've been saying they're unprotected. And now this is so clear how unprotected they are. But let me just shift to another story, a big story, the privatization of delivery. You know, the U.S. Postal Service employees do have a lot of rights. They have a lot of everything. But there's an idea, because they're now losing so much money, is it time to let FedEx and UPS take over this? And so U.S. Postal Service is suffering from declining demand due to coronavirus. It was already on the ropes. They informed Congress it will run out of cash in September

without federal assistance, very similar to Amtrak and other things. In considering a fourth bailout package, Democrats have been amenable to the bailouts, but Republicans want to block that. Republicans have long wanted to privatize the U.S. Postal Service. But the Trump administration seems hostile to the idea of a Postal Service bailout. In the past, Trump has pushed them to boost revenue by raising what they charge Amazon and others. So what do you, you're a capitalist, what do you think of privatizing them? And you know what's happened with prisons and everything else, and poor people aren't able to pay what FedEx and others have cost, essentially. and others have cost, essentially.

Look, the USPS is a gift. The USPS has decided early on that every American deserves to get their mail. And they've built infrastructure. Our guest that we're about to have on has this wonderful theory that the prosperity of a nation is a function of how well we train and educate our human capital

and the connected with infrastructure. And then it's less dependent upon the profitability of the companies that are domained within those borders. And I love that philosophy. And one of the great infrastructures in the United States has been that if you decide to live in the country, we're going to decide that at a basic minimum, you need access to the grid or power through Melrose bonds, or we publicly finance certain infrastructure for you. And we also ensure that six days a week, someone shows up and gets you your mail. And I'm not sure that, sure, there are things we should talk about. The thing that is,

the USPS on an annual level actually is cashflow positive. Where they go negative is because they are doing what Uber and Lyft aren't doing, and that is they have a sinking fund to pay for people's retirement benefits. Because we've decided, you know what, former postal office workers who work 40 hours should have some dignity after they retire. And unfortunately, they probably haven't managed it well. It's very expensive. It's a massive liability. But this is what would happen if you privatized it. You would have, for a lot of people, it would be more efficient. You would have stakeholder value leaked to FedEx, UPS, Amazon, some others. And then what a shocker, you'd have a lot of people living rural America that would have to pay a lot more to get their electric bill and the utility bill. And then you'd have a lot of workers, instead of having USPS

with benefits and with retirement benefits, you would have Amazon workers that are, quote-unquote, their drivers. They would have, quote-unquote, the liberty of buying a Mercedes van at a reduced price, would work harder, would be more efficient, wouldn't have retirement benefits, wouldn't have health benefits. So, we're going to pay for these guys. It's just a question of where we pay for them. Also, the USPS has been, similar to the armed services, a great employer of people of color. So, look, does the USPS need to be run better? Does it deserve to have some private power? But it's also been a wonderful part of our infrastructure and a victory for Americans that we've said no matter who you are, no matter where you live, we're going to get you your mail six days a week.

It's part of our infrastructure. I love this socialist Scott Galloway. I really do. I like this version of Scott Galloway. But listen, post offices are terrible. I think they're badly run. I use post offices maybe more than you do, I suspect. They're terribly run.

There's post offices? Yes, I use post offices. And I use them a lot. And I have to say, compared to what you can get from FedEx or UPS, I think UPS has been really good. I mean, in terms of using them, up and down depending on the store, but in general pretty good and reliable.

Postal service, not the frontline people. The people who deliver mail are wonderful. Sometimes when you're in these offices or getting stuff from them, it's very hard. And I see that they're competing with others, and it's really hard for them to do so. I agree. I don't quite know why it's very hard. And I see that they're competing with others, and it's really hard for them to do so. I don't quite know why it's that way. You know, I think it's part of it. Because you can't fire the workers, and they make a lot of money. You can't fire the workers. I think there's part of that. At the same time, you're right. Everyone

deserves to have mail delivered. Now, the issue is, how much more mail are we going to have in the future, right? We do have to change with the times. Like, physical mail is really, like, mine has gone down considerably, so has yours, but not packages. So I, you know, I sometimes when Trump went off on Amazon, I was like, well, I'd love to know how much we, they are being charged, if they're being charged. I'd like to have an actual not Trump administration official look at this. Like, are they charging enough? Are they doing enough? And again, maybe, maybe Bezos should get into it too. So everybody feels more competition and then the consumer benefits. Or maybe there's a way to have like a very inexpensive way to do

this. I do think typically when things are privatized, it leads to abuse. Prisons are my number one example of that. But I think most things that get privatized get abused, especially among people of color, poor people, anyone who can't afford, like you were saying, the luxury of privacy or the luxury of this. And so that would be my biggest worry, that everyone does deliver, should have the mail delivered to them. And it's so problematic that I think probably fixing the post office is what I'd rather do. Well, there is a hybrid, right? And that is, it becomes a utility. And that is, it's a private company that can access the markets. There's some, the market pressure on costs, but there's regulators who say, okay, if you're the cable company and we're giving you a monopoly in New York, you have to provide broadband to every household. You have to,

you can't, they tax it. you can't slow down speeds in areas where you're not making a lot of money. You could turn the USPS, it's not X or Y, there is a hybrid where they turn it into sort of a regulated utility that's run, you know, Florida Power and Light is run like a business, but you have to run lines and you have to provide power and you can't cut up power within a certain amount of notice, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So maybe there is a hybrid. But the USPS, I think, gets a bad rap.

The thing that has really hurt it is that letter, to your point, that we don't get mail. I know this is going to sound like an elitist comment. I haven't opened my mail in a decade. I just don't even know where my mail goes. Anything I get through the mail that's not a box dropped on my door is either bad news or something I don't want to read. It's just unimportant. It's true. It's with DocuSign. So letters where they made all their money was people spending, you know, whatever it is, 45 cents or, or, or eight bucks on something they need to get there

overnight that weigh nothing. What has gone up dramatically is all the shit we're ordering, right, in boxes. And while that ordering, that volume has skyrocketed, it's much more expensive to handle that. So, they're as important as ever. It's just the unit economics on the things they're delivering have

gotten much worse. There's got to be some sort of hybrid. So, you didn't get my engraved invitation to have dinner. Oh, I'm so sorry. Your handwritten love letter? My handwritten love letters. Sprayed in Chanel number five. Here on the front lines.

Thinking of the dog. Thinking of the dog. Here on the front. My dearest Scott. Yes. Like that kind of stuff. That's right. I do it in longhand with a feather.

Nights are long thinking of you. Yes, the nights are long here at the front. That's right. The weather is cool have you heard we're at new york magazine now all right listen we gotta go we have a friend of pivot is important person and he only has a limited amount of time for us so you need to ask some questions here this is a person you need to talk to try to act normally this time yeah i'm excited about this one okay there's a lot of smart opinions i expect you to ask a lot of good

questions we're on the line with Professor Robert Reich. He is so famous as an economist, the author of a book, The System, Who Rigged It and How to Fix It. And he is currently a professor at UC Berkeley. He has held positions in the administrations of Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton, and was Secretary of Labor from 1993 to 97. Welcome, Professor Reich. I'm going to let Scott start with the questions.

Professor Reich. Hello, Karen. Welcome, Professor Reich. I'm going to let Scott start with the questions. Professor Reich. Hello, Karen. Hello, Scott. So it really is an honor to have you. And also, first off, kudos to you for deciding. I'm sure you could have taught anywhere in the world, and you decided to speak at the institution that will graduate more kids from low-income households than the Ivy League combined. That's right. That's right. You see Berkeley where the dog went. Anyways, it's fantastic to have you on the program. Let's bust right into it. The rescue slash bailouts. What did they get right? What did we get wrong? How would you change it? Well, a lot of it is wrong right now because most of the money seems to be going to big corporations who don't need it. It really is a bailout, not unlike the bailout of the banks in 2008.

And to make matters worse, much of it is not transparent. That is, it's very hard to tell exactly who is getting what and why and under what circumstances. Meanwhile, average working people and the poor people who need it are getting $1,200, a one-time payment. It's not even exactly clear how that is determined. There's a phase-out starting at $75,000 up to $100,000, but it's just one time, and people need much more than that. There's a $600 a week addition to unemployment insurance, but the unemployment insurance system is overwhelmed. The entire system is crashing. In most states, people can't even get through on the telephones. Very, very long lines, websites that are not working. So hopefully that is going to be straightened out. But overall, if you look at the big picture, you see the big, powerful organizations in our society, that is big corporations, doing quite well. Oh, incidentally, they also managed to get exempt from the second coronavirus legislation from the requirement that they provide paid sick leave.

And that's, I'm talking about the big corporations. So they're using their political power as they usually use their political power. And unfortunately, as is very often the case now in America, average people, working people, and the poor are getting the scraps. So talk about this idea. Sort of this is highlighted. We were just talking about this with gig workers. There were issues with them, and this is highlighted. There's a lot of race and class inequalities exist in the U.S. for generations.

Who do you think is most at risk right now? And how do you repair what you were just talking about? Well, I think that there's a lot at risk, obviously. I mean, you've got essential workers, so-called essential workers, who are mostly, again, low-income, disproportionately poor, Black and Latino, working in hospitals, working in delivery, warehouse, they are sanitary workers. These people are not even getting hazard pay. They're not getting protective equipment that they need. They're subjected every day to a lot of risks, a lot of dangers. And then you've got, and I would say that that number is getting too close to a third of the workforce that is I I'm just extrapolating from where we are today

about a third of American about 30% of American workforce that's more accurate is deemed essential in these kinds of occupations and then you've got another, I think we're going to be up to about 30% unemployment, probably by the end of, at this rate, we could easily be there by the end of May or June. And that's just, I mean, we're talking about 47, 48 million people who do not have a source of income. And then you've got the other 40% of the workforce are now working remote. They're managerial, professional, technical workers for the most part. They are inconvenienced, but like you and I talking right now, we're doing okay. I mean, we'll get our paychecks.

So again, the class system in America is revealed even, I think, even more sharply than it was before. Professor, is there an opportunity here, thinking about this post-corona, if you think about some of the nations in Europe, we have a lot of benchmarks for bailouts and rescue packages, and it feels, I think you can make the argument that the ones that are working are the ones who focus on protecting people as opposed to protecting companies.

Do you think we could come out of this? Do you think, where I'm headed is, if we were to say, all right, we're going to protect people, we're going to use this, we're going to realize essential workers are the ones that have been paid the least, we're going to raise minimum wage, we're going to ensure that people get paid 60, 70, 80 percent of their salary until this is over. But we're going to let big corporations or even medium-sized corporations, we're going to let them fail. Is there an opportunity here to say, all right, there's a difference between capitalism and cronyism and that we need to protect people, not companies, and let some of these companies fail? Yeah, that's where I come out. They're not going to fail. The big airlines are not going to fail, believe me. They're always renegotiating their debt with their creditors. They've been doing it for 30 years. The same with the big hotel chains and the cruise operators who don't even pay

any taxes anyway. These big, big companies, they have a lot of assets, a lot of collateral. They're not going to fail. The small businesses, I think, are in real danger. The small businesses, I think, are in real danger. And the small businesses are always in danger. But I think the payroll protection program, if it really did work and the small businesses kept people on their payrolls, I mean, set them home for safety, but kept them on their payrolls, that would be a good thing. But the money is being sifted. The way it was organized, you you know it's typical it goes through the big banks man and the big banks don't want to take risks and even though the cost money is zero now

uh... the big banks really standing up to the plate uh... so uh... that money is not getting out the way it should i i'm encouraged with one idea that actually Senator Hawley from Missouri and Representative Jayapal from Washington both independently came up with the idea, which is very similar to what many European countries are doing, and that is the United States Treasury would directly support the payrolls up to, I think Holly's proposal is 80% of what somebody was getting up to the median wage and Jay Paul is talking about a hundred percent up to a hundred thousand dollars

but nevertheless the ideas is very similar the Treasury makes a direct payroll contribution it is for the payrolls it's for nothing else and it is to keep It is for the payrolls. It's for nothing else. And it is to keep these people on the payrolls. And obviously, the businesses that, you know, their biggest cost is the payrolls, and they will be required to keep people on payroll and make money. It's just a more simplified version of the payroll protection proposal. The other thing that caught my eye is that there is a movement to provide hazard pay and better protection for essential workers. And Elizabeth Warren is championing that in the Senate. And we've got a couple of members of Congress who are pushing that in the House side. That also needs to happen, a kind of bill of rights for essential workers.

For essential workers. Now, one of the things that Scott and I talk about is that a lot of what's happening going forward is the acceleration of trends already in place. Retail was already sort of on the ropes to start with, and the trends were going towards Amazon and delivery. A lot of companies were on the ropes in that regard, especially analog companies, restaurants and others are being pressured because of delivery and et cetera. When you come back, do you see that happening? Because one of the things is accelerating current trends that were in place or not. Or do you feel like maybe people will take a pause and say we shouldn't?

Because a lot of people feel tech companies are going to be in a real advantage position when we get out of that. And then I'd love to comment on the money they're giving away, whether you think it's adequate. I'm afraid that that's the case. I mean, the five big tech companies were already in positions of extreme economic dominance. We used to call them oligopolies.

I mean, they are really exercising monopoly power even before the pandemic. And what we see is that companies like Amazon are now raking in huge amounts of money. They don't, you know, basically Amazon paid almost no taxes last year. Amazon is a huge political force as well as an economic force, and the two go together. And Amazon is going to be even stronger. It's now hiring about 120,000 additional workers. It doesn't provide them with paid sick leave unless they actually test positive, and even then, they only get two weeks. Walmart is also raking in a big amount of money,

and Walmart is not treating its workers particularly well, as you know. It is hiring 100,000 additional workers, is hiring 100,000 additional workers. But the other high-tech companies are also, because so much of what we now have to do is over remote lines and the Internet, they are doing better than ever before. And I think this is going to entrench their positions as well. The answer, when the pandemic is over, if we have the political will, is to revisit antitrust law.

A hundred percent. And see if that economic support is necessary. But that's not going to happen because they've been also trying to do these sort of personal things like Jack Dorsey's $1 billion contribution. How do you look at those at the same time? Or Mark Benioff delivering masks or them doing things like frontline foods? And of course, as Scott says, releasing a press release every time they cough. Not cough, you can't cough right now. But you know what I mean?

That every time they do something, they release a press release about it. Well, you mean in terms of the voluntary charitable philanthropic things they're doing? Well, you know, it's public relations. Obviously, they're doing it. I mean, Jeff Bezos is putting in $100 million for food banks, and that's nice, but that's about 11 hours of his income. I mean, it's ridiculously small compared to what these companies are raking in. It's the same with Jamie Dimon's JPMorgan Chase. I mean, JPMorgan Chase is doing a lot of nice little voluntary things around the country, but it's a tiny, tiny fraction of the growing

amounts of money that these banks are raking in as well. Corporate social responsibility is really public relations. It's got to be understood as nothing but public relations. It's a thinly veiled effort to distract attention from the market power and really the kind of bullying that is going on in the economy by some of these big companies. Yeah, it really is lipstick. So I want to take a different tact here, and that is, Professor, both you and I, I teach at NYU, you teach at Berkeley. These corporations, well, let me put this out there and have you respond. These corporations are doing exactly what they're supposed to do. They're private organizations. They're for profit. We can hope that they have more regard for the Commonwealth.

They almost never do. Isn't it really partially our fault as educators to not create a generation of people that make the sacrifice and vote for leaders that will think more long term, that will realize that unless we have a dignity of work, unless we have minimum wage such that people can afford some baseline level of housing and health healthcare, that we're just setting ourselves up for war, famine, or revolution at some point? Haven't we failed as citizens and as voters and as educators to create a generation or a general complexion or gestalt in our society where we put in place the people who recognize these threats and are willing to vote for people who will think more long-term? Well, that's a big question. I think the answer

is no, and that's a self-serving answer to some extent, except I look at my students at UCAL Berkeley and students really that I teach around the country at public institutions. This generation is probably more committed to positive social change, social justice, than any generation of students I've taught in the past 40 years. No, the problem is, I think, more complicated than that. I mean, Trump, look at Trump's polls right now. He's got white voters without college degrees. now he's got white voters without college degrees are still sixty one percent of them are in favor of donald trump uh... as opposed to thirty two percent of them of white voters without cost

reshaw who take an unfavorable view of trump i mean it's been you know the democrats if i'm gonna blame anybody and i think the blame came to easy right uh... but i think the democratic party over the last forty years abandoned the white working class better the years abandoned the white working class, abandoned the working class, not just the white working class. I mean, I saw it happen. So you've got a lot of, you know, there's really no political representation for the working class in this country. Nobody is standing up for the working class.

Nobody has been standing up for the working class. for the working class. Nobody has been standing up for the working class. The Democrats began to focus on basically the suburban swing vote, upper middle class, and the Republicans were taken over, what we saw, quite early by the big banks and big corporations, and Donald Trump is kind of a Trojan horse for all of them. So I think the big failure is a failure of our political system to recognize that there are a lot of people who are desperately, barely holding on. I mean, the pandemic, even before the pandemic, the white working class, the working class itself, white and black, Latino, you know, had not got a raise in 40 years adjusted for inflation. I mean, that's the big problem. You know, I think that. So you were a vocal supporter of Bernie Sanders.

What part of his ideology and platform do you hope and expect to be carried out by Joe Biden or do you not at all? Do you feel that this is going to continue? think that's the that's that's the big question right now I mean does Biden understand that he needs young people uh and progressives in order to win uh I'm not sure that he does I think basically the way he wins is uh peeling off some of the uh you know white white women who were Trump supporters. I don't think there are enough of them. I think that he cannot win without the white, without, I'm sorry, without the progressives and young people.

And does he, he's going to understand that first. That case has got to be made to him first. I hope he understands that. It would be the simplest thing in the world for him they've lost their jobs. I now understand that Medicare for all is critically important. He could say that now, but I, you know, the latest comment he made a couple of days ago was, well, maybe we can move Medicare eligibility down to age 60. I'm sorry, that's not going to get your youth vote behind you. It's not going to get your youth vote behind you. It's not going to get the progressives behind you. Yeah, I would agree. It's really strange. I think my concern is that the vice president, whether you like what Trump is doing or not, he is giving

press releases every day. He comes across as a president in a crisis. I would argue he's, I think a lot of people would argue that it's been an incompetent, almost negligent handling of the crisis. But then there's the vice president in his basement waving to his kids through a glass window. I don't think he's coming off as effective or the person to lead us right now. What do you think of the idea? You've been on transition teams, you've served in cabinets. What do you think of the idea of the presumptive Democratic nominee appointing as a cabinet right now and really starting to talk openly and honestly and talk about big structural change across all of these things? It just feels like, to a certain extent, we Democrats with this upcoming election have been a little bit neutered. And I'm trying to think how we get off our heels and onto our toes here, other than just complaining about the president. Well, I think that, you know, if Biden, obviously the presumptive nominee, were to either suggest a cabinet or to put together

an advisory group of citizens that are thought of by the rest of the country as people who know what they're doing, I think that would be probably a very good move. I don't like the Tom Friedman idea of trying to put together a bipartisan cabinet because I think that American politics has been moving so far to the right. That's not going to get your white working class behind you uh the policies that would come out of a a bunch of republican uh cabinet members if that were what biden uh did do uh is is not going to be anything that's that really the country needs i mean what you do need is to move in the direction that really the country needs.

I mean, what you do need is to move in the direction that Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders were moving in. Were Biden to decide that his vice president was going to be Elizabeth Warren, I think that would be a huge help to him and to getting young people and progressives engaged in the election. Last question. You're absolutely right.

I think you're absolutely right about that. He's taking far too long in this crisis, I think, at this point. But when you, I want to get back to the stimulus checks that people have. What would you do for individuals, you were just discussing, who are going to be just fine, who, which of those who have finances or salary that has not changed because of COVID-19, what should they do with their stimulus check? And then lastly, what should be the next step by Congress to, to fix the issues you were talking about? Well, if you don't need your stimulus, I mean, if you're doing fine, and if you, your income is, you know, 90, $100,000 a year,

and you get $1,200, I mean, turn around and, and around and give it to a food bank. I mean, that's sort of a no-brainer. I think that just getting back to the question of what we ought to do now and what Biden ought to do now and where Trump is right now, I think that so many people are beginning to see the kind of pathological, narcissistic, divisive Trump for what he is. If he goes through, and I think he's likely to do this, and not only fires all his IGs, And I think he's likely to do this and not only fires all his IGs, but also fires Anthony Fauci and anybody who disagrees with him. I think that his favorabilities, even in the swing states, are going to be really starting to suffer. suffer. You know, he wants to reopen America much too soon. That could ignite even more of a surge in coronavirus deaths and cases. There's so many ways in which Trump could be, and in many ways, is blowing it. I think the big question really that we touched on is how do the Democrats, how does Biden really take advantage of the crisis and come forth with bold ideas and get people excited by the possibility of not only getting out of this crisis, but also moving on to an America that is a much better America than we had before. I worry about Biden's use of the phrase, which he keeps using, which is getting back to normal.

Normal is what got us through. Normal is 40 years of stagnant wages. Normal is the Democratic Party basically turning its back on the working class. Normal is the growth of the American oligopoly and oligarchy. I mean, we don't want normal. I mean, normal is the problem that got us where we are today and makes it so likely that, you know, these working class Americans are going to vote for Trump. All right. Thank you so much, Professor Reich. And we'll be looking more for a lot of things you're writing and talking about.

Professor Reich's latest book is called The System, Who Rigged It and How to Fix It. He's a professor at University of California at Berkeley. Thank you so much for coming on Pivot. Well, thank you, Cara. And thank you, Scott. Thank you, Professor. Okay, Scott. Well, he agrees with you. You have become, you are like the East and West Coast versions of each other, I think. I feel that that's what's happened here. Yeah, me and Professor, yeah, minus the credibility and the stature, we're exactly the same. And the accomplishment. Yeah,

no, Professor Eisenkamp. All right, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be back for wins and fails. How can AI actually work for you? And where should you even start? Claude from Anthropic may be the answer. Claude is a next-generation AI assistant built to help you work more efficiently without sacrificing safety or reliability. Anthropic's latest model, Claude 3.5 Sonnet, can help you organize thoughts, solve tricky problems, analyze data, and more, whether you're brainstorming alone or

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And you're making content that no one sees? And it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot. It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you, tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Okay, we're back. Scott wins and fails. There's so many this week. I don't even know where to

start. I think you should start though. I think you should start with the win. My win is an idea from you. I watched Unorth start, though. I think you should start with the win. My win is an idea from you. I watched Unorthodox. Yeah. I thought it was wonderful. Just wonderful. And I love the fact that it didn't seem like it wasn't these big production, $100 million an episode. It was fairly simple.

Just a wonderful story. I like that it's—I learned a lot about—I just had the Orthodox culture, Hasidic. I didn't, you know, I just, I'm kind of a non-practicing Jew, but I just found it interesting. I thought the young actress in it was outstanding. Outstanding, wasn't she? I thought it was just very, very moving and wonderful.

Good, I have another one for you. I have another one for you. Bring it, bring it. I do like the TV. Run, it's called Run. I want to make this agreement with you. It's from this pair, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, and it's from her

production studio along with a friend of hers who's in it. And it's about two ex-lovers from college. They have a sign where they say run. They text each other run and then they go on the run. And that's what it's about, changing your life. Not going back to normal, Scott.

I'm going to do that to you. I am so ready to run. Aren't you ready to run right now? I'm going to text you. It says run, and then you're going to meet me at Grand Central Station. We're going to catch a train to nowhere. I am so ready to get in a car and just drive, Kara. I know.

I am. Oh, my God. I know. It is crazy. Like, we all wish for more time at home, and then we're like, no. Not so much. No mas. Not so much.

No mas. All right. So, my win. I liked SNL, even though it was weird as heck. I liked their effort. I thought it was adorable. The Zoom one was funny. Zoom one was great.

That was really great. I couldn't fight that. So, I liked that. I was just so freaked out about where these people live. Was that their actual homes? Yes. That was an insight. These people, they're fantastically talented, and they don't have great taste in home furnishings.

Well, some of them don't. Some of them, and then some had adorable children. Some of them. I thought Colin Joe's house was lovely. Well, he's dreamy. He's dreamy. Scarlett Johansson. Anything looks good wrapped around him.

That guy's dreamy. Nobody liked Tom Hanks' kitchen. I don't know why. Oh, the cherry wood? What is he thinking? Rita? How did she let that happen? I totally noticed that.

I couldn't focus on it. I was expecting Santa Monica, airy, like Malibu. Oh, my God. A little stainless steel, a little soapstone. I mean, come on. Bringing the dog.

I'm ready. Looking in people's homes is like, mm-mm. It is. It is funny. It's like, that's where Tom Hanks eats? Anyways, I thought the opening monologue wasn't very good. I thought, you know what? Well, no laughter.

The lack of laugh track is a problem. Oh, real hard. The electricity of being amongst and next to each other. It's really, we are such a social species. We really are. All of them. I mean, I've gotten used to the talk shows now

without laugh tracks, because they're adorable, but it's really hard. It's really, that's why we're so good. We do not have a laugh track, and yet we are hysterical. Listen, what's your fail?

What's your fail? My fail, my fail is after talking to Professor Reich, my fail is Joe Biden. Boss, you gotta get off your heels. Appoint Kamala Harris or Stacey Abrams as your VP. Appoint Michael Bennett as your Secretary of Education.

Start getting out there, talking about all these issues, talking about what you would do. Start playing offense, boss. You come across as an old man hiding in your basement right now. This is, you are going to lose this for us. This is so important. Announce your VP, announce your cabinet. Every day, take a different issue. What do you think of the Warren idea? I think it's a great idea. Yeah, she's, she's, she would talk about attack dog. Man, would she go on the attack? Oh, definitely get her out there and say, this is my new secretary of whatever. And absolutely.

But he has got to get off his heels. He's got to get off his heels. What do you think's going on? I don't know what's going on. I think they think, well, let's either the campaign is in disarray, which I would find hard to believe right now. Or they think that let's just sometimes the best thing to do is stay out of the way of a train wreck. And they're thinking, just let Trump continue to do what he's doing. They need in a thoughtful way providing an alternative. And I don't believe with Professor Reich, we keep waiting for the final straw that'll break the backs of swing states around Trump's behavior.

And we keep waiting. What we need is to provide a cogent alternative leader. And Biden, you know, if there was ever the statement ever made was more relevant, it's a greatness is in the agency of others. Well, Biden, you need to start demonstrating some greatness in the agency of others. We're going to forget he's running for president. Yep. I agree with you.

I agree with you. All right. I'm going to do my fill. And I want you to comment on it really is this fire Fauci thing that Trump retweeted. Man, like so irritating. The right. I got to say Fox News again. Once again, as usual, they're pushing that.

They're pushing the hydrochloroquine, which of course there's lots of studies now being pulled back because of heart issues, as I noted before. And just the drumbeat. You know what I was thinking this weekend as they started in on Fauci and get back to work. And after The Times and The Washington Post had stories about their epic fail, was literally they're doing it again and they're shameless in terms of people dying. They're just, they're like, let's let people. And you and I both want to just get out in a car and run and go out and go to a restaurant also

and everything else. So what do you think of this? I'd love your thoughts. Look, in times like this, we need our heroes. And one of the telltale signs of a narcissist is anyone who starts to get—I don't even think it's the fact that Fauci hasn't fully embraced Hydrochloroquine that's upset the president. I think it's the fact that he's getting attention and that people seem to like him. I made him a star was in one of the stories. I made him a star.

Like, that's how he thinks of things. He's such a fuck up in that way. I think it's really upsetting because we need talented, thoughtful, reasoned people who are data-driven. It's just another example. I mean, this could get, it's just strange. I was talking to a friend of mine who's a hedge fund manager. Unless we get to 50% of the population with immunities, which would involve probably two to three million deaths because we'd have to expose the majority of America and Europe. Unless that happens, and I don't think we're willing to endure that cost, we're going to need vaccination.

around massive cooperation and steady, thoughtful hands and people that have a certain level of respect across borders, across agencies, across parties. There aren't that many of them right now. And Dr. Fauci is one of them. And the fact that the president would distract him with this bullshit and put that kind of strain and stress on his family. Well, look at all the texts on the media this week.

It was craziness this weekend. Very upsetting. That's a terrible fail. I was sort of like weekend. Very upsetting. That's a terrible fail. I was sort of like, well, no, something's always happening there. Anyway, very big fail. Very big fail and a very missed opportunity for Trump, by the way. If he looked even slightly decent,

he would win in a landslide. 100%. He is missing his opportunity here. What's Cara up to this week? What are you doing this week? I have interviews with Mark Cuban, Tim Ferriss. Is he running for president? I keep hearing that rumor again, that Mark Cuban or Mark or Cuomo are running for president. I have Jeffrey Katzenberg.

I have so many podcasts. How's Quibi doing? Do we know anything about Quibi? I'm going to ask him. What do you want me to ask him? How's Quibi doing and why does this thing make any sense? Didn't you bring a squirt gun to a gunfight here? How does this work?

All right, I will ask that specific question. I actually watched several Quibi shows. I liked them quite a bit. Really? What's your favorite? You're my new media Yoda. I liked it in Thanks a Million. I know it sounds so goofy, but I liked it. I liked Chrissy Teigen. There's several I liked. Oh, she's the new Judge Judy? Yeah, whatever. It's kind of silly and stupid, but definitely I passed the time. I'll tell you that. I was waiting in a line.

That's exactly. So I don't know if it has, you know, I don't know if I'd keep using it. Did you pay for it? Well, no, it doesn't. It's like 90 days free or something. But you did give me your credit card. I did it through Apple. Okay, yeah.

So that's technically a sign-up. Yeah, it is, 100%. Anyway, we'll see. I'll ask them. And then Mark Cuban's going to be great. Tim Ferriss is going to be great. I got odds. And, it is, 100%. Anyway, we'll see. I'll ask them. And then Mark Cuban is going to be great. Tim Ferriss is going to be great. I got odds. And of course, I have you on Thursday.

That's right. You'll always have me on Thursday. Final question. We'll always have each other. We will. I'm writing a long letter right now. At New York Magazine. You're not going to get.

Now stop. What is the thing you miss most besides me about life pre-quarantine? And what is the first thing you'll do when we aren't in lockdown? Other than Chipotle? Yeah, Chipotle, obviously. You know, I miss, we used to, on Friday nights and over the weekend, we had just a wonderful circle of friends that have a lot of kids and being social, but having the noise, the comforting noise of your kids crying and laughing behind you is sort of a backdrop. It's like, I love being around my kids. I just don't like being engaged with them,

but I like having them around. So, I want to be back. I want to be back in social situations with people I care about, with my kids around. I don't. All right. And that's the first thing you'll do? Yeah. A big party. Yeah. I get together. Yeah, I was thinking that. How about you? I was walking, and I was looking at all the bars and restaurants closed, and it's a beautiful weather here, and I thought, all the fun we've missed. Like, I don't know. I just said it out loud.

I go, Amanda, all the fun we've missed. And I think I'll go to a restaurant. I think a restaurant. Dad in Vegas. I miss Vegas. And then you and I are going to run to a restaurant. I think a restaurant. That and Vegas. I miss Vegas. And then you and I are going to run to Vegas to get married, obviously. That's going to be an uphigh. Elvis wedding.

It could happen. Number three, I'm up for something different. It could never happen. It will never happen. Oh, let's be honest. You're the future ex-Mrs. Galloway. Do you know what I'd like to do? I'm supposed to get married, and I'm not going to be getting married

for a much longer time now. That's right. At the wedding, you can get up and say you object. Okay? I would never say that. I would never get in the way of that. I want you to run down the aisle and say, please marry me.

I truly love you. That's what I would like to happen. Okay. And then we could do a New York Magazine cover on it. It'll be great. Anyway. That's compelling media. Okay. Yeah, it is. cover on it it'll be great anyway that's compelling media okay

yeah it is so anyway we'll be back on Thursday don't forget if there's a story in the news you're curious about and want to hear our opinion on email us at pivot at voxmedia.com to be featured on the show

well you know what the difference between a gay and a straight wedding is right what the parents are crying but for different reasons oh my god that's so inappropriate that's so inappropriate I That's so 1990s. That's so inappropriate. I had a gay wedding in 1990s. That's how it went.

That's so inappropriate. I'll be there with Lucky. I'll dance with Lucky. Oh, that'll be just great. Anyway, read us out, Scott Galloway. Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Our executive producer is Erica Anderson. Special thanks to Drew Burrows and Rebecca Castro.

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