Pivot - Google's data breach, Facebook Portal, and Taylor Swift

Episode Date: October 12, 2018

Kara and Scott discuss why the Google Plus hack matters, the new Facebook Portal and its plastic lenscap, and Kara's affection for Taylor Swift (even before Swift's Instagram post exhorting her fans to register to vote). In this episode: (01:48) The Google hack; (7:03) Facebook Portal; (12:49) Wins of the week: Taylor Swift and Nikki Haley; (16:23) Anand Giridharadas and the problem with elites; (21:12) Predictions: Sniper retail acquisitions and techlash; (25:51) Would Apple or Google buy Tesla?; (28:42) Kavanaugh and Melania Trump Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every week on Pivot, we take a sharp, unfiltered look at the technology and media industries and highlight examples of winning leadership. And when it comes to leading a successful business, time and again, entrepreneurs and executives from across industries share this incredibly simple secret. Turn to the experts for help. That's why small and medium-sized businesses rely on Trinet for human resource solutions. No matter what industry you're in, Trinet tailors strategies for your organization to grow with confidence. Learn more about how Trinet's industry-tailored HR can work with your business at Trinet.com. That's T-R-I-N-E-T dot com.

Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, founder of Recode. And I'm Scott Galloway, professor of marketing the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher, founder of Recode. And I'm Scott Galloway, professor of marketing at NYU. Today, Cara, I'm bringing you Jared Kushner-like hidden genius. You're in Florida today, is that right? How's the weather? You're expecting a storm, right? Yeah, fortunately, we're on the East Coast, so it's not a big deal. But obviously, our good wishes go out to the folks in the panhandle. Absolutely. Absolutely. It seems a little scary.

It's a little scarier than we thought. This is part of, you know, it was interesting because there was a climate change report that President Trump completely ignored this week. But it seems like this is what it's been predicting, these kind of massive storms just happening one after the next. And it's always the stuff you're not expecting, right? Right. I mean, the last thing got a ton of hype, nothing, and then this just kind of snuck

up on us. Well, it only takes one, Scott, in these storms. I don't mind if it gets hype and it is a letdown. But in any case, there's been a lot of storms across the tech and media landscape this week, too. I hate to make a horrible metaphor thing, but there's been a lot going on. It's been another bad week for tech, which is really kind of fascinating that it just can't cut a break on anything, but it doesn't also deserve a break. The first one,

obviously, is the Google data breach of Google+. It feels like every week these days, there's a story about a data breach. Last week, Facebook was under fire and continues to be under fire. And this week, it's Google. So what do you think about this? Google+, half a million people, people hacked. And by the way, remember how awesome Google Plus used to be? No, I do not. Yeah, neither does anyone else. Right, right. That's my big joke. Right. So like most scandal, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. Because when you think about 500,000 people, that is literally amateur hour in the world of Facebook at a couple zeros, and you're talking about the Facebook hack. So it's not the hack itself. The strange thing here is that six

months ago, it happened six months ago, and this is probably why they didn't show up for the Senate hearings. Oh, really? Yeah, because they didn't want to talk about it. Well, think about it. Well, what if someone had said to them, are you aware of any hacks? Do they perjure themselves? Or do they release that data in front of Congress, in front of national TV? So I don't, you know, and a decent question for you or anyone else in the media that talks to these guys is the next time they speak to anyone from Google, ask them, are there any hacks you know about that we don't? Right, exactly.

I think, you know, people have been sort of making a joke about Google+, nobody used it. And by the way, nobody used it. You know, Google's been trying very hard to get into the social space for many years, a couple years ago. And, you know, they were essentially creating a social network for antisocial people and by antisocial people. And they weren't successful. They tried Orkut first, if you remember Orkut, which was a guy who worked for Google, and it was popular in Brazil for a millisecond, and it may still be. And then Google+, which was run by someone named Vic Gundotra,

and again, it didn't work at all, and it couldn't keep up with Facebook. They sort of had Facebook envy. And then nobody used it because it was just a terrible social network. It had circles that I never understood, if you recall it. It was all these weird circles and different things like that because of Google, I guess, with the O's. But what was really fascinating about it is everyone's like, oh, it's not used that much. But, you know, 500,000 people still not, Google not protecting your data really is the point. And then not telling you about these breaches to me is, again, the same problem that there is not a federal law that

requires immediate disclosure of these hacks, which I think was among the Internet Bill of Rights that I wrote about last week in The Times, that they have to immediately disclose these things. They have to be required by law to do so. And it looks as if we're headed that way, right? What's your sense of this regulation in California? What have you heard? I read somewhere that Representative Kahn actually showed you a draft of the legislation. He did. He did. It's not legislation. It's an internet bill of rights. And then you make and craft your legislation out of it. And, you know, there's all kinds, it's a whole grab bag of things from net neutrality to privacy to data protection to all kinds of things. And one of them is

one of the bill of rights. I think it was number seven or eight was the idea that you have to immediately disclose these hacks. And that could be legislation by itself. It's not going to be one big giant legislative mass. It's going to be a series of them. And I talked to Nancy Pelosi, who would be the Speaker of the House if the Democrats won. But of course, they may not have the Senate, so this may go nowhere. But she was talking about the fact that they were going to draft some sort of legislation. And until then, California and Europe are the places where this is happening. California has been super aggressive and has passed a privacy bill, has passed a diversity on board bill, net neutrality. So this is going to be a really interesting time to see what states are going

to probably put into place things to control these companies. Do you worry, Cara, that inadvertently that this legislation or this type of regulation might in fact end up emboldening or empowering the companies it's meant to curb? Really, it hurts the middle guy? Yeah, it does. Midsize company that doesn't have an SG&E budget of $6 or $8 billion to comply with this. Yes, I do. That's one of the big things. That's one of the arguments of the big companies. Don't do it because we have lawyers.

Like, I don't know if that's the good – you know, I think it's got to be crafted in such a way to protect smaller companies. And that's definitely the case. They don't have the ability. Like at GD, you know, all the stuff in Europe. It's problematic for small companies. So it would hinder innovation. And the argument from these big companies is this is going to – you know, China doesn't in Europe. It's problematic for small companies, so it would hinder innovation. And the argument from these big companies is this is going to hit. You know, China doesn't have to deal with these things.

Well, China's run by a president for life, so I guess it doesn't. Like Facebook? Yeah, like Facebook. Exactly. Oh, my God. Scott, you were waiting. Come on. You were waiting for that one.

By the way, we'll have Xi for 20 years because of biology. We're going to have the Zuck for 70 years. You're right. That's a fair point. All right. In any case, they've got to do something about this, and there's got to be real payment for what's going on here. You know, it's going back to the Yahoo thing, the Equifax thing. It's just, you know, you put your data online at great risk, and these companies are making billions of dollars off you, and they're not protecting your privacy.

And that's just pretty much the situation going on. billions of dollars off you and they're not protecting your privacy. And that's just pretty much the situation going on. What was also interesting is you see big tech is now actually warming to the idea of federal regulation because of the transaction costs of dealing with a bunch of statewide regulations. Yeah, and then they can water it down because, you know, people in Washington. But, you know, John Mark Warner has issued some very strong statements. We'll see where it goes. And speaking of privacy, the Facebook Portal this week.

Another product that is going to sort of be like Google Plus to me. Joining the Portal game, which is a word we don't use anymore. It used to be Yahoo was a portal and Excite was a portal and stuff like that. And they're retaking this word up portal. And now they're creating this device. And it has Amazon in it. What do you think of this? Are you buying one? I thought this was fascinating because, you know, I want a camera in my house controlled by Facebook, said no one ever. And actually, if you've looked at the product feedback, I think the product development folks at Facebook did a great job.

My gut here is that it's a great product. I don't know if you've seen some of the automatic framing it does. Yeah. The notion, and it's a genius notion, of not having a video conference with someone but feeling as if you're in the room with them. Yeah. Even little things like syncing music on both ends so you can enjoy music together. I think this is a great product. But here's the problem. It's from Mark Zucker them. Yeah. Even little things like syncing music on both ends so you can enjoy music together. I think this is a great product, but here's the problem.

It's from Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. And the most telling thing about this product is it has a plastic lens cap. There are 150 million iPhones sold every year. No one's demanded a plastic lens cap on that. There are 15 million cars sold each year, and most of them have a camera in the rear license plate. No one's demanded a plastic lens cap there, but Facebook comes out with something.

It knows. And basically the product development stuff, people said, you know what? Nobody trusts you. You've got to make it really obvious that people can protect themselves. Well, Mark has one on his camera at work. I took a picture once. A piece of tape, right? Yeah, his piece of tape.

Yeah, and he has it there. He also has it over the speaker too. So he's well aware of privacy issues, which is interesting. And I've talked to him about it before because I have one on my computer too. I don't have one on my phone. I probably should. But it's a really interesting question because I think you're right. It's a beautiful product, but there's a lot of issues. I've seen reviews back and forth and that it's sort of an old school where you stay in a kitchen and stay there while you're right. It's a beautiful product, but there's a lot of issues. I've seen reviews back and forth and that it's sort of an old school where you stay in a kitchen and stay there

while you're talking to people. That's not really a use case necessarily. So I think that'll matter more than anything else if people really want to sit in their kitchen and talk to people or be present at TelePresence, which has been bandied about by Silicon.

Cisco had a TelePresence thing. Everyone's tried this idea of TelePresence and eventually it's a great idea where it'll seem like your parents are there or your cousin, whoever you want to talk to, are right there when you're talking to them. And that'll be interesting someday, and this is a step towards it. But I just don't see – it's sort of like the Facebook phone,

if you recall the Facebook phone. Again, nobody wanted it ever. Why do you have to have a Facebook phone versus just a phone that has Facebook on it? So I think it's an interesting thing, but it's not, I can't imagine it's going to take off in any way whatsoever. Kind of like the HP iPod.

Do you remember that? I did not know there was, I knew that there was a Zoom. I remember the Zoom. The Zoom was different. That was a really awful device by Microsoft trying to copy the iPod. But there was an HP version, a branded version of the iPod.

And Carly Fiorina, who was the CEO at the time, you know, touted it as innovation at HP. And I was like, you just colored a iPod red with HP on it. It was just odd. So, you know, I don't know. I just, I don't think this is a product anybody is waiting for, and especially right now where we don't feel like Facebook has our privacy back in any way, that we want anything, any device from theirs in the house. I don't want the Amazon one in the house. I don't want the Google one in the house. Oh, the Amazon one is awesome.

It is awesome. I have it. I have it. I just turn it off all the time. I just turn it off all the time. It is. It is. A couple of really interesting things that'll happen here or won't happen. One is, if this thing gets any traction, then all the barking at the moon that we do, all the headline news about our concerns are overblown. There's huge consumer dissonance. It's not going to get traction. I'm going to go out there with that. It's not going to get traction. Fair enough. But if it does, it means all of this privacy concern that we're upset about hasn't gained traction. I think you're wrong. I think people are very aware of it. Regular people talk to me about it every day.

Like they understand. You speak to regular people? I talk to regular people all the time. And the other thing is what I was really hoping would happen today is I was hoping Amazon would take a page out of Facebook in terms of what they've done to Snap and announce the exact same features

in the next Amazon show. Oh, that would be funny. Right? Just say, okay, we're learning from you, Facebook. But Amazon, it's Echo that's in there. It's Amazon Alexa that's in there. So you're not buying at the portal, right? Correct?

Oh, no, I hate Facebook. I mean, I'm even, you know, I think anyone that's- That's a hard no then. You know, other than ruining America, I'm on board with the company. Okay. Hard no. I hope this is a big thud. Yeah. Okay, good. Okay, then. Yeah. Other than ruining America, I'm on board with the company. Okay. Hard no. I hope this is a big thud. Yeah.

Okay, good. Okay, good. Well, good wishes towards you, Mark Zuckerberg. Anyway, we're going to take a quick break. When we get back, we'll be talking wins of this week. So stay with us. Every week on Pivot, we take a sharp, unfiltered look at the technology and media industries and highlight examples of winning leadership. And when it comes to leading a successful business, time and time again, entrepreneurs and executives from across industries share this incredibly simple secret.

Turn to the experts for help. That's why small and medium-sized businesses rely on Trinet for human resource solutions. No matter what industry you're in, Trinet tailors strategies for your organization to grow with confidence. Learn more about Trinet's industry-tailored HR and how they can work with your business at Trinet.com. At Trinet.com. That's T-R-I-N-E-T dot com. Incredible starts here. And we're back. Okay, wins of the week. There's so many to think about.

I am going to go first. I am going to go first on this one, on wins of the week. It's Taylor Swift. I love Taylor Swift. I'm not going to pretend I don't like Taylor Swift. I'm not going to say, oh, she's annoying. But sometimes I love Taylor Swift. Everything about her cracks me up. And this week she went Instagrammed that she, that millennials

should vote. And she was saying she backed the Democratic candidate in Tennessee, where she's from. And all of a sudden everyone signed up to vote, which I thought was fantastic. And so I'm really interested in this sort of Kanye-Taylor fight fight again because Kanye's on the Trump side and Taylor now is on the other. So it's the Tay, the Tay, yay, whatever, ye, whatever fight. And I really like that she did this. I like that she used her power for good in this case.

Have you been to a Taylor Swift concert? Yes, I have. That's not true. I have seen her sing when I was in an iHeartRadio thing and she was absolutely fantastic. She's a great performer. In a word, awesome. And not only that, it's a concert you can take your kids to. Well, in any case, my favorite part of the whole concert was when she

finished her song, and then she, like, took this long bow, and then they weren't clapping enough, and she put her hands up. She's like, more clapping, please. And everyone did. They went crazy, and I loved her for that. I thought, oh, man, I love this woman. She's great. So it was interesting to use the power of digital to do this.

And not many people can do this, but she certainly obviously showed that she could. Yeah, and supposedly voter registration is up. So it's having an impact. Yeah, well, we'll see where it goes. But it's interesting that she's done it. A lot of these celebrities are stepping out politically much more. So everybody is in that regard. What is your win of the week?

Oh, hands down, biggest win of the week, hands down, probably of the month. Okay. Nikki Haley. Nikki Haley. Why? Why? Tell me. Oh, my gosh.

She's getting out of Dodge with her reputation intact. Uh-huh. Working in the Trump administration means, A, you're likely going to jail. Uh-huh. Or, B, your reputation is going to be severely tarnished. She comes out, she exits the administration with probably the best brand in politics. To have been able to lead the state that raised me and to serve a country I love so very much has really been a blessing, and I want to thank you for that. But I'm most excited. Look at the two years. Look at what has happened in two years with the United States on foreign

policy. Now the United States is respected. Countries may not like what we do, but they respect what we do. In my opinion, if you were to bet on anybody who will likely be president at some point, it's probably her. Why is that? That's a prediction along with your win of the week. Why so? Why so? I think she's the perfect blend of kind of gangster strong, communicates leadership strength. And I think that brand mixed with the Republican ideology and cocktail is a pretty good mix. I think she's a player and a comer. Oh, really? Interesting. Interesting. See, I was, I heard different things back and

forth all week, whether she was really good at politics. You know, she did sort of effusively compliment them on the way out, but then someone else who's here in Washington told me what she's going to do then is take pot shots from the sidelines from, so now she has permission to take sort of on certain issues like around women and other issues that would be strong for her. I think it gives her permission to run in 2020 if things really come off the rails. Oh, really? Do you think they will? Are you still on that game? I don't think so. Well, I think they are. Really? I don't know. I think they are. I don't know. These people, they seem to survive. So speaking of being a total kiss-ass, you know what the best thing I read this week was? What? The write-up of your interview with Anand, and I'm going to massacre his name,

the author. Yes, Anand, yes. Yes, about elites. Oh my gosh, I thought that was fantastic. Thank you. Just the notion, this guy is my new hero. Yeah. The notion that we basically, Ted and Davos and the Aspen Institute invite all these arsonists, all these people who created these problems because they're the ones that can fix them. Yep. And that these people need – these individuals, mostly tech billionaires, need to be more reflective about not only enjoying questions about what can they do moving forward, but how did we get here and what was their role in that? Right, right. He compared it to a crime scene, which I thought was really fantastic. Yeah. You know, that they don't—they want to pretend the crime didn't take place.

Yeah, they show up and say, well, what's happened here is—let's put this behind us and let's move on. Let's talk about making sure this doesn't happen again. How do you, as a winner, not insist on win-wins? How do you, as a winner, not insist on win-wins? How do you actually get out of the way of the public trying to solve its problems in ways that may hurt you? These people love to ask what they can do. They never ask what they have done. That's a really good way to put it. How am I involved in this problem?

How have my work practices been involved in this? How am I the product of a system of taxation and labor and all these other things that allowed me to make this fortune? One of the things that I – what I'm thinking about is that they're also victim-y. I've recently been pretty tough on them. And they're like, you're so mean. And I'm like, you're like a bunch of sore winners. It reminds me of the Trump – you win – like the Trump people won Kavanaugh and then they had to be mean. It was like sore winners once again.

And I think tech people are the same way as they've won on every account. And then when you call them to task for a couple of things, as Anand did, they get all tetchy. Well, we'll take our money and go. Or like, don't you appreciate us? Yeah, you know, which is like,

no, we really don't appreciate you. But I agree. It's a great book. It's about the elites and it's well worth listening to the podcast, but it's also well worth buying the book. And we'll see where we go from there if they listen to what he has to say. That'll happen. Yeah, they will.

They might. I'm sure it's a moment of reflection. Yeah. They get testy. I am on the receiving end of testy phone calls from tech people all week long for some reason. You know, like, oh, they're very some reason. What's been the worst one? Take Angry Times Famous. Who wins?

They're just so whiny. I just don't, you know, you're so mean. You're like, don't be so hard on us. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to. I'm just not going to stop you. The message they should have gotten is we have to fix something, and the message they've gotten is poor little me.

And I'm not clear why that's the case. It's the message. You know, what Anon was talking about is let's be reflective of our impact and figure out ways that maybe you should listen to people more and instead it's well we're trying to help like that kind of thing it's just it's what's the they're just all like i just can't i'm so now over it i just can't even um i just can't just can't, I can't, I, I just hang up. I'm, I'm just hanging up. That's what I do. I just hang up now. I'm done. It's like, I have 50, like I'm calling around a lot because of this murder of the Saudi journalist, um, by, uh, by the Saudis, it looks like. Uh, and, uh, from according to some of the investigations, some of the reporting, uh, this

Washington Post columnist and, uh, and there's a lot of money from Saudi Arabia within, from Saudi Arabia in Silicon Valley. It's like a wash in Saudi money. And like, I'm trying to get any of them to say anything. And they're like, well, we really can't say anything. I'm like, you got to be kidding. And now I realize, you know, they don't care. Like that's, you know, they don't care that they just take the money and this regime is possibly doing this. Doesn't seem, I can't get anyone to comment. Let's just say. And what would you have them do? Comment.

This is terrible. And if they did this, we have to think hard about the investments these people are making. Something, anything, anything that's human. So anything human would be nice. A pulse. Anyway, on that horrible note, we're going to take one more quick break and we'll be right back with some predictions. Hi, this is Erin Patinkin, CEO of Ovenly. And I'm Natasha Case, CEO of Coolhaus.

And together, we're the co-hosts of Start to Sail. We talk to entrepreneurs about what it takes to build a business from launch to exit. We'll really talk about the experience in the trenches, the most valuable lessons learned to get them out of there. Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to our show today. And thanks to Smartwater for being the founding sponsor of Start to Sale. Welcome back to Pivot with Scott Galloway and myself, Kara Swisher. So predictions. Predictions, Scott.

You have to have some. We have to have some every week. And you have to be right. There you go. You weren't right about the Facebook stock again, by the way. Oh, my God. I've been remarkably wrong. All of tech stocks are getting hit. Yeah, I said Amazon was going to my God. I've been remarkably wrong. Wrong. All of tech stocks are

getting hit. Yeah. I said Amazon was going to pass Apple. I've just been hugely wrong. All right. So my prediction is trying to get back in your good graces. I think that some of these sniper retail concepts are going to be acquired in the short term. No, explain that. Explain that. Well, there's a couple trends in retail. One is sort of this Ritalin retail, these pop-up museums, you know, the Frose Mansion, the Museum of Pizza, which really play on this trend in retail of scarcity. And it's not that these museums are great. It's that one, they offer a giant Instagram moment, and two, you know they're going away in 90 days, so everybody should go. And I think that's largely indicative of sort of this Ritalin generation and where retail needs to head, fast fashion creating a sense of retail.

The other kind of trend in retail is sniper retail, where you find a category with a fat and happy incumbent, whether it's Bausch & Lohn or Labelux with Warby Parker or the mattress industry, which was literally a sleep, so to speak. And you have Casper. And then the luggage industry, which basically had Samsonite and Tumi and maybe Ramoa and with Away. So my predictions is that Casper and or Away gets acquired in the next three to six months. That's interesting. By whom?

So there's already been some reports that walmart is sniffing around walmart has figured out that the way to kind of push back on big tech is to grab the mic back and one of the best press releases that sort of says we get it is these acquisitions whether it's jet or bonobos and i i said that i thought jet was a ridiculous acquisition at three and a half billion dollars but the reality was it gave them the opportunity to say that their e-commerce was growing 40% to 60% year on year for four quarters in a row. So if they can pick these things up as maybe Amazon announced they were getting the mattresses, which means Casper's value got cut in half the next day, in the same fashion that any

industry's value gets cut anywhere between 10% and 40% when Amazon just hints that they're going into it. Right. So I think Casper actually is probably a little more open to being acquired right now. I think that would be the smartest thing they could do. And there's a couple of them. There's Purple. There's Casper.

There's a whole bunch of them in this industry. Thread and Needle. Thread and Needle. Just incredible. All of them. Yeah. And they're all very interesting because I have to say it is a terrible experience mattress buying. And they did change it.

And the question is, can they operate on their own or do they have to be part of a bigger organization? But, you know, it's interesting because I had dinner recently with the CEO of Walmart. And he's quite aware of his need to do this. He's quite aware of the importance and trying to figure out how they can compete, which is kind of odd to think about Walmart being on their back foot on anything, but they are for sure. That is an excellent prediction. I like that prediction. I think that's a really good one. I like that one. I think you're right. I think you're right. Well, it's like Eisenhower said, it's not plans are worthless, but planning is invaluable. I think predicting or predictions are worthless, but predicting is a lot

of fun. So I want to have a, but predicting is a lot of fun. So I have a question for you on a prediction. Sure, sure. Which of the big tech companies a year on from now, looking back, has gotten beaten up the worst? Oh, Facebook. Facebook.

Yeah. Both in terms of usage, not only regulation, but in terms of the actual underlying performance of the company. You think this is starting to seep into the company? I think so. I think so. I think so.

I think they're really speaking on. Yeah, I do. I think a lot of people, they've shown blood, I guess. Do you know what I mean? Like they're still enormous and they're still growing like crazy, but there's something off. I think probably Facebook. Yeah.

I would not say, you know, Google just has now finally been drawn into this, and it hadn't been before, But between China and this breach, you know, they had sort of skulked away from some of the responsibility here. And I think they're, but the two of them, I think. I think Apple's just fine. You know, it's just a question of creating great products or continuing to create great products there. And they certainly got dinged in this hacking thing, but they fought back pretty hard, and so did Amazon against this Bloomberg story about there being an errant chip in the boards that are having to do with their technology.

Yeah, that was scary. That was. But if true. They've been pretty adamant that it's not true. So that's an interesting thing to develop, and we'll see where Apple goes from there on that issue. So not a prediction, but a thesis, and I want you to respond to it. not true. So that's an interesting thing to develop. And we'll see where Apple goes from there on that issue. So not a prediction, but a thesis, and I want you to respond to it.

The lack of self-control, the id on steroids, a weak board that is Tesla. Stock gets cut in half from here, which I think makes it, I don't know, 20 or 30 billion market cap. Yeah. Apple steps in and buys it. Yeah.

What do you think? No. No? No. Why? I don't know, 20 or 30 billion market cap. Yeah. Apple steps in and buys it. Yeah. What do you think? No. No? No. Why? I don't know. I just can't see those guys. I can see those guys getting in a room and going, I know them pretty well, and being

like, no, just we can't. It's exhausting. What about Google? Get a jump on self-drive? Yeah, maybe. But again, it's who's going to do it? Like, is it Sundar? They've got enough stuff going on that it's sort of like who?

Sure, sure. Google would be, Apple and Google would be the purchasers. It's just like, would you take that on right now? It's a level of exhaustion. Talk about execution. It's, you know, it's a lot. It's a lot. And the issue is, can we do it ourselves slower but better kind of stuff?

So, you know, maybe one of the big car makers. That's a lot of money for them. They can't afford it. Yeah, that's a lot of money. Is there value like car companies? I don't know. I would question. I would wonder what is it by them besides a lot.

It's sort of like buying. Remember when everyone thought everyone was going to buy Twitter? I kept saying, no, it's too much. There's just too much hair on that dog kind of thing. And I think that's the issue is the level of, I just don't see it. I just don't see it. But, you know, it's a good idea. And it's also a lot of money.

Could they get it that way elsewhere without that and just make Tesla one of these pioneers that either did or didn't make it, like let it go? Like what does it by you? It's not a lot of money for Apple. If the stock gets cut in half, it's a $20 billion, 50% premium. That's a 3% deletion. I can't think of one person

who could run that there. And I can't see him being comfortably within Apple. And they're not that acquisitive. They're not at all. They're very controlled about what they do. I can see them just going, I can see Tim going, no. Like, I just see it, you know what I mean? Like, no, let's just focus over here kind of thing.

And I think they pull back a little bit in their car stuff. And Google has, you know, Google has let go a lot of really great people who work there. You know, they've let people come and go. So I wonder where the commitment to cars, it is, but you know what I mean? Like, who's the driver of the commitment? You know, Larry's over making hovercrafts. Sergey, who knows where he is? You know what I mean?

Like, Sundar has got his hands full. So like, who's the person who's going to be that person? Diane Greene's busy with the cloud. Like, Susan's busy over at YouTube. I wonder who would be the executive. You know, that's all. I think about the people, and I can't think of any of them that would be busy over at YouTube. I wonder who would be the executive. You know, that's all. I think about the people, and I can't think of any of them that would be any good at it. But maybe.

Who knows? Who knows? There's just, I don't know. Someone's going to win here. It just is a question of who it is, and it's going to be a long time from now. Anyway, Scott, I think we've covered a lot today. Did we miss anything? I think that's it.

I think we've covered it. What was your least favorite thing or the thing you hated most about the Kavanaugh hearings? Melania Trump and her appalling statement about hard evidence. I literally don't even know what to say. We need to show the evidence. You cannot just say to somebody, I was sexually assaulted or you did that to me because sometimes the media goes too far.

or you did that to me, or because sometimes the media goes too far. And the way they portray some stories, it's not correct. It's not right. Just when they're completely appalling, she drops the most appalling thing. And, you know, I think, you know, it seems like the Stockholm Syndrome has really taken effect with her rather significantly. And do you think Ivanka is going to be the new ambassador to the U.S.? No, I do not. I think probably it's going to be Dina Powell if she wants it.

I mean, isn't Ivanka just her father if he drank water and had a better wig? By the way, by the way, that is a line from my favorite comedian Michelle Wolfe, who is the next ex-Mrs. Galloway. She just doesn't know it yet. She is my hero. She is. Do you know her? I never met her. I think she wants to know me.

Okay. All right. Okay. We'll find out. I saw her in a park. Don't try and segue. I'm going to stop. I'm going to stop this right now.

I was in Washington Square Park, and I saw her with my boys, and I screamed, you're a genius, and she literally ran for me. Oh, really? Literally ran. That is an excellent response by Michelle. So that means she has good judgment. If I see her, I will tell her to stay away from you. I'll give her a little picture to hold and say, this guy's a stalker.

It'll be good. It'll be good. Wait, so my least favorite thing about the Kavanaugh hearings? Can I just tell you? Yes, go ahead. That's what you wanted. You didn't really want to know what I wanted. No, no, no.

I listen to respond, not to learn, Kara. That's what you wanted. You didn't really want to know what I wanted. No, no, no. I listened to respond, not to learn, Kara. So Susan Collins and this whole notion of presumption of innocence. Presumption of innocence is this really important construct used in courts of law for a thousand years. And it's used as a means to determine whether people get to join the three million people who are incarcerated. It's not a construct of a job interview.

My kid's school is interviewing a headmaster. And the notion that we wouldn't pick somebody because they say, well, we have to assume anything bad about them is not true unless it's proven. Where did the presumption of innocence come in when we're trying to find out if someone should wear one of the nine most important robes? Well, they turned it into a court of law, didn't they? That's what they were doing. That term should have never been injected into this whole process. Well, that's because it's easy to understand by regular people, right? Like, oh, guilty and think.

Who you speak to. I do all the time. Anyway, it was great talking to you. Stay safe in the hurricane. Keep yourselves safe. Thanks very much. Our show is produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.

Thanks also to Eric Johnson. Thanks for listening to Pivot is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Thanks also to Eric Johnson. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. Join us next week for more breakdown of all things tech and business. If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. Thank you. incredibly simple secret. Turn to the experts for help. That's why small and medium-sized businesses rely on Trinet for human resource solutions. No matter what industry you're in, Trinet tailors strategies for your organization to grow with confidence. Learn more about how Trinet's industry-tailored HR can work with your business at trinet.com. That's T-R-I-N-E-T.com. Incredible starts here. Trinet.