Pivot - Hate on 8chan and why Scott's not quitting Equinox

Episode Date: August 9, 2019

Kara and Scott talk about Cloudfare dropping 8chan after its latest link to domestic terrorism and hate speech. They also talk about SoulCycle and Equinox's links to the Trump campaign. Kara's ready t...o dump SoulCycle, but Scott's holding out on Equinox. They also talk about Facebook rebranding WhatsApp and Instagram. Scott's getting Apple's new titanium card (apparently it could kill a person). And in predictions Scott thinks the TheRealReal's stock is about to get real.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript
Discussion (0)
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Starting point is 00:01:37 There's a tech angle. The police say about half an hour before the El Paso shooter opened fire, he posted an anti-immigrant, anti-Hispanic manifesto on 8chan. Scott, have you ever been on 4chan or 8chan or any of these sites? You know, I haven't, Karen. I barely, I normally don't even know what they are. Can you give a brief overview of what they are? Yeah, what happens is these sites, a lot of people have been sort of shoved off of other sites. And so they coalesce around a couple of these sites, one of which was started by someone who wanted a full free—4chan was not free speech enough, and so they went to 8chan. And the guy who actually founded it wants it closed down because he thinks it's negative for the world and negative for the people who use it. But it's a place where they can post these manifestos and trade in hate, and so you can say anything you want.
Starting point is 00:02:21 And so it's used for these killers as havens for killers to post their opinions about what they're about to do. Do you think they should be shut down? Yes, they do. Yes, they do. I think they're just havens for killers and racists and everything else. And I don't know how you can shut them down, but I don't think that other companies should be supporting them. And there's a lot of companies that support them, essentially. One of them, which was Cloudflare, which is an internet infrastructure company. It's really a security company. On Sunday, the company cut off service to 8chan,
Starting point is 00:02:57 a move that was only done once before for a white supremacist site, the Daily Stormer, if you remember. At first, Cloudflare was saying it wouldn't do anything this time. The guy who runs it, Matthew Prince, is a very staunch free speech advocate. But then it changed its mind, and critics have been asking, why is it so different than Christchurch or any of the other awful things 8chan has hosted in the past? So, you know, it's a really bad situation. It's a really problematic one. And
Starting point is 00:03:25 let me just play this. I'd love to get your thoughts. Two years ago on my old podcast, Too Embarrassed to Ask, I interviewed the CEO of Cloudflare, Matthew Prince, who has done the shutdown. This was after they pulled the plug on the Daily Stormer. And even then he was deeply conflicted. Here's what he said. You know, I analogize to a pre-internet world where if you imagine that Ma Bell is listening in on your phone calls and decides at some point you're talking about something that doesn't serve either their political, moral, or economic interests, and they unplug you from the phone network, that doesn't feel right. I think we need to have a conversation about if we're going to regulate content online,
Starting point is 00:04:05 where is the right place to regulate it? And I'm the son of a journalist. I believe deeply in free speech. That's what we talked about around the dinner table. I think it's one of the things that makes this country so powerful. But it doesn't have the same force around the rest of the world. What does, on the other hand, is an idea of due process, an idea that there are a set of rules that you should follow and you should be able to know going into that. And I don't think that the tech industry has that set of due process. And we didn't follow principles of due process in this case. Yeah. So look, I have a backstory here. A few years ago, a few years ago, 10 years ago, I was put on the board of Eddie Bauer by the debt holders or some of the equity holders. And it was about to go into reorganization.
Starting point is 00:04:52 Eddie Bauer, bad merchandise, dusty brand, poor execution. The thing was going into bankruptcy. But there was still value there. So, we went through this auction where you try and get a stocking horse bidder and then find someone to buy the firm. And at that time, the highest bidder was a firm that just does licensing, meaning that they would fire everybody and then just license the brand and produce goods overseas. Crappy goods, right? Well, not always, but typically not of the same quality as a vertical manufacturer. And 1,200 people were going to lose their jobs.
Starting point is 00:05:33 And we decided to reopen the bidding process to see if we could find someone to buy the company and hold on to most of the employees. And the hedge fund manager, a 24-year-old who gave me a great lecture about the invisible hand, called and said, you're not doing your job. You have a fiduciary obligation to shareholders full stop. And you're not there to pretend you're a social engineer. And I called a guy named Stuart Stein, and I think it's important that young people always have a kitchen cabinet of people on their shoulder when they're dealing with business or personal issues. And this guy was part of my kitchen cabinet, and he said, well, actually, Scott, when a company goes towards bankruptcy, it enters what's called the zone of insolvency, where your fiduciary obligations aren't just to shareholders, but they're to the debt holders and to the community
Starting point is 00:06:09 and the employees. And I think slowly but surely, companies have moved towards this notion that their board of directors is fiduciaries for stakeholders, not just shareholders. And what I find in business in our society is that we have what's these kind of comfort absolutes, where when we're faced with difficult decisions, we just go, oh, First Amendment, or oh, just represent shareholders. And the reality is the world's not that simple, and you have to take into mind other stakeholders. So I find that when people wrap themselves in a First Amendment blanket or a censorship blanket, what they're really saying is, I don't want to have to think about nor defend this really hard decision. And I think in the case of these organizations, especially something like 8chan or 4chan, if it's what you say it is,
Starting point is 00:06:49 unless it's a trap, unless it's a Venus flytrap or domestic terrorists or pedophiles, I say that companies have a responsibility to have a thoughtful conversation around whether they want to engage in supporting that organization. So I like the fact that we're moving away from what I'll call these comfort absolutes. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's a really difficult problem. I mean, what's interesting about Matthew Prince is in his quote, it just drove me,
Starting point is 00:07:12 he's an interesting man and I had a very good interview with him, but he's very typical of these Silicon Valley types where they don't want to take any responsibility for anything and they want all the benefit and they don't want to make any hard decisions. And one of the things that he said in his quote just irked me, and in fact, I wrote a New York Times column about it, was that he goes, finally, enough is enough. And I was like, hey, dude, enough has been enough for a very long time.
Starting point is 00:07:38 And they said, we need to start a conversation about online hate. I'm like, we've been having it. It's just that you refuse to do anything about it and you're in a position of power here. And so it was sort of, the whole encounter irritated me. And it's so typical of these tech companies, which are just literally abrogating responsibility at every step of the game and benefiting from them at every step of the game.
Starting point is 00:08:01 And they have, these things have impact. And the other thing is, why dump Daily Stormer and not this one? Why do this and not this one? And so, you know, they really have to have some rules that they keep in place where these sites are,
Starting point is 00:08:14 either they're toxic or they're not, and they're going to support them or they're not. And that's, I don't know, that just seems, they make it needlessly difficult. We're going to, as consumers of these companies,
Starting point is 00:08:23 going to have to recognize that occasionally they get it wrong. The New York Times got their headline wrong. Because they have to make discretionary calls around this stuff. And discretionary calls means that you have to say, all right, if they're making discretionary calls, they're occasionally going to get it wrong. I know Matthew, he came and spoke to my class.
Starting point is 00:08:37 He struck me as a pretty nice, thoughtful guy. And by the way, just purely distinct of the ethics here, it was a brilliant move from a branding standpoint. I mean, he is now, or Cloudflare is now seen as this kind of righteous, starts your hat white household name. It was a brilliant move strictly from a PR standpoint. But going back to the gun issue, and, you know, I promised myself, we keep promising each other we're not going to delve into politics. Go right ahead. promising each other we're not going to delve into politics.
Starting point is 00:09:03 Go right ahead. You have, I mean, obviously you hear these, just these gripping stories about a woman who's bleeding out of her head because she's just been shot in the head, FaceTiming her husband and the only, you know, her last words are, I need to get to my kids. I mean, the unimaginable horror on this kind of first circle of victims. But I mean, you'd want to somehow figure out a way for Mitch McConnell to feel the disaster, the empathy and the stress that it literally, that it creates across all parents. My kids' school now has a guy as of six months ago on campus, sitting around, looking at his phone that has a sidearm. And he just sits on campus, hoping and waiting that some guy, and I call him,
Starting point is 00:09:45 okay, you're now the guy, you're the first guy that gets shot. That's what you are if something terrible happens here. But it's really, it's not to protect the kids. It's to protect the parents who are in a state of hysteria right now. And the amount of stress, it's like, I'm going to Nantucket this week, and of course, the moment I decided to go to Nantucket, the beaches are cleared because there's a great white. Yeah, there's a lot of sharks. Yeah, my son in his wetsuit literally looks like a dinner bell for shark week. And all I can think about is, okay, how do I not let my kid into the water?
Starting point is 00:10:16 And I'm just totally stressed out. The amount of stress that guns causes parents across this land is extraordinary. And obviously, the victims, that's, you know, those people's lives and the lives of their families are ruined, but the amount of stress and heartache this is causing across America is sort of a, it's just incalculable. It's just so strange.
Starting point is 00:10:37 And I'm curious, I don't see a lot on, okay, well, what can be done? We're sort of all outraged, but what if you today decided i mean other than registering to vote or or making a donation to the to the the service member who's running against mitch mcconnell and say what do you do i think you did if i was doing it you ban assault weapons okay but how do we get there you and i are on board how do we get there how do we make that happen they did they did it in the clinton administration they did it they did it
Starting point is 00:11:04 they did it they just let it. They did it. They just let it lapse. And shootings went down considerably. Oh, no doubt. It works. More guns, more deaths. Less guns, less deaths. It's pretty straightforward.
Starting point is 00:11:14 We don't have a monopoly on mental illness or video games. We have a monopoly on mentally ill people with access to weapons of war. I mean, it's straight fucking math. Well, it's anybody with them, honestly. It's just ban us all weapons to start with. They were able to, I mean, Trump was able to ban bump stocks
Starting point is 00:11:32 by executive order. I don't know. It's just, the whole thing is just, what happens is they rely on our ability to get exhausted by it and not be so exhausted that we don't keep going. Turn to something else. And they're right.
Starting point is 00:11:47 Keeps happening, we keep forgetting about it. Keeps happening, we keep forgetting about it. Well, that's why I find these people ultimately so cynical about what's happening. Now, the same thing is this thing, you made a joke about Equinox and it's kind of a weird pivot to make, but it's the same thing, is that this guy who
Starting point is 00:12:03 runs Steve Ross, he owns Hudson Yards, which everyone abhors in New York apparently. And he also owns a number of brands that are, you've talked about this issue. I was thinking about you a lot. Bluestone, I think it's Creamery. He owns Pan Pizza. Pure Yoga, SoulCycle, Equinox. Yeah, Pure Yoga, SoulCycle, Equinox. You use Equinox, I use SoulCycle, Equinox. Yeah, Pure Yoga, SoulCycle, Equinox.
Starting point is 00:12:25 You use Equinox, I use SoulCycle. And he is giving, after the week of the racist tweets by Trump, he's still giving this giant Hamptons party, the most elite place on earth, for President Trump. And it set off a flurry on the internet yesterday among people who use these things. It set off a flurry on the internet yesterday among people who use these things. Because most of them are, you know, the elite, elite, wealthy people who did not know this was going on. And then people did. Thoughts? Well, so let me ask you.
Starting point is 00:12:57 And I'll, you go first and I'll go second. Does it impact, does it affect your affinity and likelihood to patronize SoulCycle? I know you're SoulCycle. No, I'm not going to use it anymore. You're done. Really? Done, yeah. Wow. It's dumb.
Starting point is 00:13:09 It's a discretionary purchase. I know it's expensive. It's plenty of money. And so it's like, I don't need to do it. And even though they tried very hard, the CEO of Melanie Whalen, who I like quite a bit, had put out a statement that said, you know, we don't agree with this
Starting point is 00:13:25 and none of the money goes to politicians. He's a passive investor. He's the owner. He's like, he makes all the money. Like, so it's kind of really hard. The same thing Equinox did. Equinox has used a crazy amount of gay people and stuff like that.
Starting point is 00:13:39 Like the whole, like SoulCycle is supposed to be for diversity in women. And, you know, I put it akin to like if Rose Macario of Patagonia, which has been selling its environmental record and they do lawsuits and stuff like that, and you buy into that brand because of what you like about it, suddenly was an oil driller in like pristine areas of the wilderness. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:14:01 You just don't have to. You don't have to buy that stuff and everything. I don't know. So I respect that. And I think you're walking the wilderness. Yeah. It's just, you just don't have to. You don't have to buy that stuff and everything. I don't know. So I respect that. And I think you're walking the walk. I'm going to continue to go to Equinox. My decision is going to be,
Starting point is 00:14:12 I think, indicative of most consumers and that is I talk a big game and then I want that little black dress for $9.99 from H&M, which means somebody in Bangladesh is working for,
Starting point is 00:14:21 you know, poverty wages and the supply chain is just polluting like crazy. I don't, I do think there's a distinction between something like Equinox and SoulCycle and Patagonia who rests its brand on being overtly kind of socially conscious. I think Equinox and SoulCycle are trying to be progressive, but it's basically just a gym where there's more good looking people wearing more Lululemon so they charge a premium.
Starting point is 00:14:44 But it's basically just a gym where there's more good-looking people wearing more Lululemon, so they charge a premium. No, but seriously, it does bother me. I agree with you. It's like they sell and sell and sell. They have neons. They sell the idea of what they are. And then, in fact, their owner is completely opposite. But I'll go even further than that. I find with progressives, look, I think that we're very good at accepting people who don't look like us.
Starting point is 00:15:04 We're not very good at accepting people who don't look like us. We're not very good at accepting people who don't think like us. And 49% of the nation voted for Trump. And if someone wants to host a fundraiser for him, I don't think we should be committing economic war against that person. I just don't. I'm going to work my ass off to get Trump out of office. I'm going to give money. I'm going to canvas. I'm going to do my part.
Starting point is 00:15:22 But I think bipartisanship has to go places if you really think of it as a belief as opposed to just a word. I don't think you can commit economic war against people who happen to support the president. And I don't like them. I think they're stupid. I don't understand them. But there were people who hated Obama and Hillary. And does that mean that they should not work with my companies? Do they have a moral obligation? Oh, come on. Boycotting is an age-old tradition.
Starting point is 00:15:51 Everybody, it's been going on. You know, remember Anita Bryant and the Orange News with gays. And so this is not an unusual thing to do. Like Chick-fil-A, for example, super anti-gay. My kids eat. I let my kids eat it all the time. I tell them what it is. They make a decision. Right. They think the chicken's the best chicken ever. So
Starting point is 00:16:08 I don't eat it. So it's just, I think people can make individualized decisions without, what I think the left does all the time is we constantly are the ones giving in and, and saying, we'll try to be bipartisan when the other side just never does. Look at the behavior of Mitch McConnell this week. He's just not going to pass it. So if he was feeling bipartisan or think it's an important thing, he would do it. And so we get played constantly on the left by the right, constantly. Now that I've outed myself as someone who's going to continue to go to Equinox, I have to enter the fitness protection program. Kara, get it?
Starting point is 00:16:38 The fitness protection program. You go ahead. I just think everyone should be able to choose. That's all. People can make their choices. And I think boycotts are an age-old tradition. The right does it. The left does it.
Starting point is 00:16:47 I think it's, you know, when a lot of people didn't want to go to Disney because they had the gay days, fine. That's your choice kind of thing. I think it's good. 100% get it. So, the Apple Card. I want to pivot to something happier. The Apple Card. Can we talk about the Apple Card?
Starting point is 00:17:03 Yes, please. Because I've been using it the past couple of days. Really? And what do you think? I haven't used it yet. I've just downloaded and... Yes, they gave it to me early. Yeah, yeah. Did you get on the thing? Have you used it yet? Yeah, that's right. I haven't used it yet, but I got on it because I know Kara Swisher. That's right, exactly. It's great. It's great. What are the things you like about it? I'll tell you about what I think I like about it. What do you like about it? I'll tell you about what I think I like about it. What do you like about it?
Starting point is 00:17:25 And I'll tell you where I think it came up short. Let me do the negative parts, which is Apple Pay is not available everywhere. And so I don't have the physical card with me yet because it hasn't been delivered. It's a titanium card, which you'll love because you can also kill people with it, apparently. Yeah, it feels like a weapon. But it's this very sharp titanium card. I don't have it yet. And so where it is not available, which is several places, I've noticed,
Starting point is 00:17:46 it's available in a lot of places, but not as many as I thought. And so that's a problem, not being able to use it. The thing I like about it is no numbers on it. I like the instant ability to see things and where I purchase them. I like the financial information they give in this app, which is really well done. I like the fact that they're not trading on your information, that they don't have it, that it's encrypted. I like that their business isn't marketing on top of making money from interest rates and late fees and stuff like
Starting point is 00:18:18 that, which exist on all credit cards, obviously. And I just trust Apple. at those of, I just trust Apple. That's, I think that's what it is. I trust them more than other companies. Yeah. I thought that was a great summary. Another incredible brand move is they're going after privacy and the individual who helped me get signed up said we're all about simplicity, transparency, and privacy. And I thought it was interesting that they're incorporating privacy really deftly into their kind of core identity. privacy. And I thought it was interesting that they're incorporating privacy really deftly into their kind of core identity. The one feature you didn't mention that I really liked, or I really like, is that when you get your bill, it uses artificial intelligence to badge the location. Instead of having some funky merchant code that you can't figure out, where did I spend $200? It
Starting point is 00:18:59 says, oh, you spent $200 at this gas station in Ontario or whatever. And you have a map next to it. And I have a map. However, I asked the individual, I said, okay, this morning I was literally looking at my Amex bill, and I saw all these charges on iTunes, and I wanted to know, are these legitimate? What was being purchased? Because I'd like to know. It's my kids using my iTunes account. But I want to know, A, is it fraud?
Starting point is 00:19:22 And, B, I want to know what they're buying. And I said, why haven't you been able to use that given it's a closed network and you more than anybody know if they're downloading Dora the Explorer or something else? And she's like, oh, well, we haven't figured that out, which I think is bullshit. In other words, my sense is transparency. Yeah, I agree. Transparency is great for them until it might reduce their revenues. Right. And the thing that would be easiest for them to tell you what has actually been purchased, they've decided, oh, we can't figure that out. I agree. I had an issue with that too, but go ahead. The other thing that's I think really interesting is the security features
Starting point is 00:19:54 where your numbers is not on it and numbers can change because credit card fraud, I get contacted probably two or three times a month via text message saying, was this charge yours? And if it's less than 20 or 30 bucks, I just say yes, because the idea of having my credit card shut down and then re-registering across all the different sites is such a pain in the ass that I've decided a tax worth paying is to have a little bit of fraud on my card. A little bit of fraud that just, that's where they test it and then they buy a big thing like a boat. Yeah, but here's the thing, when they say they're calling you for your protection, no, they're not.
Starting point is 00:20:26 They're calling you for their own protection because you are not liable for more than $50. You're not liable for any fraudulent charges on your card. So when they call you and say, we're going to shut it down and make it a pain in the ass for you to re-register everywhere for your protection, no, it's not. They're covering their own ass. You're not liable for any fraudulent charges. Perhaps. In any case, it's really simple, which is what I really liked about it. When we get back, we will talk about Facebook, Scott.
Starting point is 00:20:47 It's time to take a break, and we'll talk about wins and fails and our predictions for the week. We'll be back after this. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore.
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Starting point is 00:22:37 And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Support for this show comes from Constant Contact. You know what's not easy? Marketing. And when you're starting your small business, while you're so focused on the day-to-day, the personnel, and the finances, marketing is the last thing on your mind. But if customers don't know about you,
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Starting point is 00:23:55 Go to ConstantContact.ca and start your free trial today. Go to ConstantContact.ca for your free trial. ConstantContact.ca. So Scott, we're back. contact dot C-A. So, Scott, we're back. Are you there, Scott Galloway? I am. Or are you working out at Equinox because you're a class trader? We need class traders according to Anand Giridharadas.
Starting point is 00:24:21 That's true. I heard the call. Yeah, I am a class trader. I guess I am. So, Facebook. I heard the call. I heard the call. Yeah, I am a class traitor. I guess I am. So Facebook, you discussed it earlier. They're rebranding its WhatsApp and Instagram to be WhatsApp by Facebook and Instagram by Facebook. Speaking of brands, like I'm using the Apple card because I trust Apple. Oh, my God. Now I wasn't using Instagram and WhatsApp. Now I'm really not using Instagram and WhatsApp. This is it. I think it's a fail. What do you think? using Instagram and WhatsApp.
Starting point is 00:24:42 This is it. I think it's a fail. What do you think? Yeah, my mind was just blown. Because typically when you have brands with this type of equity, you don't want to pollute them. And right now, Facebook has some baggage. Instagram and WhatsApp are pretty clean brands.
Starting point is 00:24:57 And Facebook's an amazing brand because of its ubiquity and it does have a lot of positive associations and people interact with it every day. But there's some baggage there, right? Facebook has been dented and banged up. And creating sort of this master brand or sub-brands, turning WhatsApp and Instagram into sub-brands, it usually would go the other way. And so this doesn't make business sense, except that what it does is it does two things.
Starting point is 00:25:21 One, it outs Mark Zuckerberg as he clearly thinks Facebook is kind of the lead dog here and it's really all he cares about. And he doesn't have nearly the affection for the other brands to the extent he's willing to damage kind of billions in brand equity. But two, I think there's more Machiavellian than that. And that is, I think he's trying to, again, conjoin the triplets and make them one entity such that if and when the DTC or the FTC and the DOJ get their act together and come in and start talking about breaking them up, he can say, well, if you try and separate us now,
Starting point is 00:25:49 you're going to kill the entire baby. So they're trying to pull things together such that they can claim, well, the spaghetti can't be unwound, otherwise you'd kill the entire company. So I think this is a prophylactic move against antitrust. I think the DOJ- Well, what about as a brand move? What is your thoughts on the brand move? Oh, it's stupid. It's really stupid. These are such powerful brands. These are global. Each of these brands is probably one of the 20 or 30 strongest brands in the world right now.
Starting point is 00:26:13 And the idea that you would make them less distinct and create that, do away with that diversity of asset base, it's heresy in the world of branding that you would take three amazing brands and mush them together. It's just weird. It's like, I don't know what the equivalent would be. It's like Lexus or Toyota saying, we're just going to call it the Toyota Lexus. It's like, well, this has a distinct identity and a ton of brand value. Why would you start polluting and confusing both brands? So it makes no sense from a business standpoint. I do think Mark Zuckerberg is a brilliant businessman,
Starting point is 00:26:46 and I think he's decided that the brand equity that they will sacrifice is outweighed by his ability to claim that they're one company and he can't break us up. What do you think? All right, so I think it's a fail. What is your fail of the week? I agree.
Starting point is 00:26:59 I know why he's doing it. I think it's a bad idea. That's my fail. I think it was, you know, I think that Facebook, it's a lesson in really poorly managed brand architecture. It just doesn't make any sense. And I hope the FTC and the DOJ send a letter, go on background saying,
Starting point is 00:27:16 just because you've decided this is one brand doesn't mean we're not going to come in and break it up. Should we decide that's the right thing to do? Yeah, I think that was one of the things. Obviously, also this week, Facebook wrote to Congressman David Cicilline that TikTok is a serious competitor and that in 2018,
Starting point is 00:27:29 it was installed more times than either Facebook or Instagram. And obviously, Cicilline, who's going to be on the podcast soon, is one of the Democrats who's thinking about whether Facebook should be broken up. So they're now trying to make a competitor.
Starting point is 00:27:40 Like that's, again, that was a fail to me. Like, oh, Facebook, you really have to stop. Like, I see what they're doing, but they're definitely making moves because, you know, the government is moving in on them. Yeah, 100%. What's your fail this week? Fail this week for me is the activity around Google, the accusation that Google's traitorous again. It continues by the Trump administration via Peter Thiel. And they were pushing the idea they're investigating Google because they discriminate against right-wing employees. And they focused on a right-wing employee, Kevin Cernicki, who of course was on Fox News, which got Donald Trump's attention. And then he started on the suppressing negative stories about
Starting point is 00:28:23 Hillary Clinton and trying to undermine him. And I just think this is just, I am not a defender of Google most of the time. But in this case, it's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous attempt to do business via politics. Well, and this got overshadowed again with all the mushroom clouds and dumpster fires everywhere. firefighters everywhere, but supposedly Trump is considering an executive order around these platforms, an executive order to try and diminish or to try and reduce the amount of conservative bias. It's like, okay, what's that going to look like? I mean, you want to talk about our heads start spinning around First Amendment and censorship when the president's going to put
Starting point is 00:29:01 out some sort of executive order demanding. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. Yeah, I can't imagine the mechanism. I just don't see how on earth that would happen. Well, the fact that he's doing it, it's like between Fox News and Peter Thiel, this is just insanity. You know, again, to defend a giant company like Google is not my easiest stance. But in this case, I think it's just, the executive order to do that without any proof whatsoever, except for this idiot who worked at Google who, you know, whatever. I'm sure it's not great to be there at the kombucha social hours if you happen to love Trump.
Starting point is 00:29:34 So what? Like, so what? Work somewhere else or just, you know, say your piece and then argue with people. But this idea that he was discriminated against just because he doesn't, you know, there's such talk about like snowflakes. They're just snowflakes. I don't know what else, that's what they use the term snowflakes.
Starting point is 00:29:51 So that was a fail for me this week. And I don't know where it's gonna happen, but it must be very concerning to Google. It has to be very concerning. Do you have a win? A win, yes. I actually, it's something I tweeted about last night. The Beanie Friedman.
Starting point is 00:30:05 Did you see Booksmart? I love Booksmart so much. I'm so sorry it didn't do better. But she's an amazing actress. She just holds the screen like nobody else. She's also from Lady Bird and Booksmart. And she's going to play Monica Lewinsky in season three of American Crime Story about Bill Clinton's impeachment. And Monica Lewinsky is one of the producers.
Starting point is 00:30:22 I just am so excited about that. I don't get excited about that much television, but I think it's great. Nice, nice. Yeah, you have to see Booksmart. What's your win? You know, it's funny, on the way over here, I was trying to think of a win and I don't have a win
Starting point is 00:30:34 and I feel like it's my right not to have a win. All right. My question is, it's strange. Do you remember when 9-11 happened, there was a pretty large cohort of people that had serious anxiety or couldn't fly? I never understood that. I was here when it happened.
Starting point is 00:30:46 I thought, okay, if you know someone that was hurt, or actually no one was hurt, people were murdered. Very few people got injured. They either survived or they were killed. But it sent a large portion of people into a funk, right, which is understandable. But I never really understood that. And these shootings— And you lived in New York and you weren't in a funk? Everyone I knew in New York.
Starting point is 00:31:04 Oh, I saw the buildings come down. I mean, I was right there. And I just... I know that sounds terrible, but I just thought it was obviously tragic, but it didn't put me into any sort of depression or causing anxiety. And this shooting, I don't know if it's because I'm
Starting point is 00:31:20 getting older, but these shootings this week have really sort of rattled me. And I'm trying to figure out, is it the age? Is it having kids? Is it finally developing an overdue sense of empathy? What is it about events? And I would love to find who the, you know, the premier psychologist, what is it about certain events that you're not close to have an impact on you versus those that don't? But this, it feels like this one was different. I don't know why. Was it for you? Has this like rattled you? No, it's just an ongoing feeling of depression over the fact that this is, I don't know if it's depression corrected, that this just doesn't end. It gets ratcheted and ratcheted up and you are constantly pushing back on what is, you know, racism.
Starting point is 00:32:01 Like that, you know, and then you have a group of people like, I don't know, like Tucker Carlson, for example, this week, it's just such a, there we go. He's gone fishing. He should stay fishing. Um, who are just like, there's no such thing as this. And when it's so clear that it is, you feel like you're being propaganda, you're being manipulated. You feel like you're living in Soviet Russia. Yeah. And you know how I address and fix my depression? be at Russia. Yeah. And you know how I address and fix my depression? How? Equinox. Here's the thing, Kara. As a species, we are happiest when we are in motion and surrounded by people we love. And I want to give a shout out. And as you said, you still have back fat. There you go. There you go. But you know what? When I go to Equinox three times a week, I look 53 and 7 eighths nude as opposed to just 54.
Starting point is 00:32:50 It's working. It's working. But shout out, if you're feeling depressed like me, it's really easy. Get outdoors, exercise, sweat with people you love. That's where we are happiest as a species, Kara. But not at Equinox or SoulCycle. As Christy Teigen said, I'll meet you at the library with weights. I'm going boogie boarding with my 8 and 11-year-olds.
Starting point is 00:33:11 Truth be told, we might be chum. We might be a little tasty snack. And, oh, by the way, what great timing. I can't turn on a TV and see a great white shark, like, eating the shit out of a seal that looks like a little boy in a wetsuit. I am a mess, but I am going to go into the water and go boogie boarding with my kids this weekend. Well, it's lucky most people in the world have a worse life than you. Any predictions this week, Scott? Oh, shame me.
Starting point is 00:33:34 I feel so shamed. Oh, my God. I'm enjoying my life. Yes. Yes, poor me. You know, there's immigrants all down in Texas that are being mistreated. But I'm so upset for you that you can't work out now. I'm so glad.
Starting point is 00:33:46 Anyway, what is your predictions? I don't mean to equinox shame you, but I think I will for several weeks. Well, we talked about, so I like, there's, I always talk about stocks that I don't, that I think are going to get cut in half. But the stock that I really like now, and I'm looking at, if you will, and I'm thinking about, I only buy stocks that I can give to my kids, is a stock we've talked about. I think a stock to watch is the real, real. I went, they have- Julie.
Starting point is 00:34:14 Oh, yeah. I think this thing is a juggernaut. I think if you look at some of the companies that have created tens of billions of dollars in value, they monetize these fallow assets, whether it's cars or apartments. And the real, real is, I think there could be something, I think this could be, if you will, a 30, 50, $100 billion market cap company. And I think it's built some moats around it. I don't think their competitors are that strong. There's a network effect, explosive growth using the internet. And they've also, similar to what Uber's done, but in a better way, have figured out a way to assemble a group of humans or organic intelligence. So my prediction is we talked about Beyond Meat getting cut in half,
Starting point is 00:34:53 and I got a bunch of crap on Twitter for always being Debbie Downer. So I think RealReal is going to do really well this year. I think it's interesting. Julie Wainwright, I covered her for many years, but she had several companies for this, including Pets.com, where she got killed. And didn't really make a recovery for a long time. I've known her really well. She's actually coming to Code Commerce in New York in September.
Starting point is 00:35:14 So I'll be interviewing her there. But I've known her for a million years. And this was an idea. I put up the email she sent me when she started it. She goes, I've got this kind of interesting idea finally. And talked about it. And said, you should come visit our warehouse when we start started it. She goes, I've got this kind of interesting idea finally and talked about it and said, you should come visit our warehouse
Starting point is 00:35:26 when we start doing it. And so I'm really happy for her that this has worked out. And it does meet a need that is, it's a nice clean company that does like exactly and a very helpful thing to a lot of people. The whole idea of clothes. And I think I'd like to talk about this next week, the idea of actually owning clothes
Starting point is 00:35:42 and how you move what you own around. I'll be writing about that next week where you can rent everything, Scott. But it's a great company, right? And she's really terrific, interesting. She's very interesting and one of the few female CEOs in a tech-related company. I'm going to make a little
Starting point is 00:35:58 prediction. Is Disney, the Disney stock getting cut because of the earnings and stuff like that? I think Disney's going to do just fine. And I'll be really interested when they roll out this. It's a great call. You know, they've had a bad history on the Internet. So I'm really excited to see what they do around this Disney, Hulu, ESPN stuff
Starting point is 00:36:15 and how well they're going to do it. We'll see. They're really great in content. They have seven of the top, what, ten movies. I think the worries about them are premature. 100%. I like your prediction more. And I don't know if you saw, but yes, they announced they're moving towards this grand bundle. They're bundling Disney Plus, ESPN, and Hulu. Ad supported Hulu for what? Exactly $12.99, the same price as Netflix. So,
Starting point is 00:36:39 they're moving towards this grand bargain, prime life offering, which is absolutely the way to go. But yeah, I like your prediction more. I think the market got it wrong. It was off 5% after the earnings call because let's be honest, this bundling and recurring revenue bundles are just extraordinarily expensive. But I agree with you. I think it's going to come back. They have had not much success on the internet. I've written about all of it. They had Dig and everything else. And they had that thing called Starwave. They had all kinds of – they just had – they've never really been that successful in Internet offerings. But I have to say Bob Iger has been early to it. He's been trying at it.
Starting point is 00:37:11 And I think he's – he will get it right. If there's any media executive who will get it right, I think it will be him. That's my feeling. A hundred percent. And where are you this week, Kara? Where is – I am on the Cape with the sharks. Oh, my God.
Starting point is 00:37:23 And I don't go swimming that much so I'm totally safe. Yeah. I also did the Bill Simmons podcast and I'm trying to compete with all your podcasts you're doing
Starting point is 00:37:32 with other people. You're cheating on me so I cheated on you with Bill Simmons who was brilliant and also John Lovett last week so I was around.
Starting point is 00:37:40 I know, but that's like, okay, I go play tennis with my friends and you go to Wimbledon. Bill Simmons and John Lovett. But we're going to interview a presidential candidate.
Starting point is 00:37:50 You keep saying that. Stop teasing me. No, we are. We're working. Stop teasing me. It's going to happen. It's like when my dad would always tell my mom he was going to buy her a rabbit coat. That was a luxury item in the Galloway household, a rabbit coat.
Starting point is 00:38:02 And he never did. We're still waiting on that rabbit coat. You're going to have a rabbit coat, Scott Galloway. I'm going to get you a rabbit coat. We're going to have such a good time. And you have to behave and ask good questions, good pressing questions. What's the point? I'm 54. I'm an atheist. I'm economically secure. I have a core group of people who love me. What's the point of behaving? Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Muhammad Ali, Kurt Cobain, my heroes all have one thing in common. Circle slash behave.
Starting point is 00:38:27 All right. Okay. All right. On that note, have a beautiful time. I'll talk to you next week. Try to be careful when you swim and try not to wear bright colors and kick with your little feet because you are. Shark bait. Shark bait.
Starting point is 00:38:39 By the way, you know what? We have done so much crap to sharks. I'm sort of like. It's terrible. Well, there's a big pushback against Shark Week for being so sensationalist when the bottom line is for every individual that's bitten by a shark, about 100 million sharks are killed by humans. Yeah. We've fucked with sharks, and I feel like they're tired of it. In any case, I don't want anyone to get bitten, obviously, but sharks have had a harder time than I think people have, for the most part.
Starting point is 00:39:05 We feel for the sharks. We're feeling very lefty this week. Yeah. Anyway, today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis and Eric Johnson. Eric Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Rebecca Castro, Drew Burrows, and Nishat Kerwa.
Starting point is 00:39:22 Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. If you like this week's episode, leave us a review. If you have any suggestions for what you want to hear us talk about on a future show, probably we won't listen to them, but send us an email, pivot at voxmedia.com. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week with another breakdown of all things tech and business. of all things tech and business.
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