Pivot - Is this the year big tech gets regulated? (Probably not.)

Episode Date: February 15, 2019

Scott blusters in from his breakfast with Congress on how to regulate big tech — so Kara and Scott get into whether Congress will ever be regulating tech (seems not so likely). Kara sums up her twitter showdown with Jack Dorsey. Also more shade thrown on media outlets doing a bad job — like Esquire Magazine featuring a cover story about being a white boy in America and more generally Tucker Carlson, Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway coming to you from our nation's capital today, Cara. Are you? What were you doing there? I had a breakfast with about a dozen congressmen and congresswomen and a few senators. And then I met with another senator to talk about big tech. What else? Let's hear about what happened. Why were they all together for a breakfast? I just was in Washington. Now I'm in New York City.

But what was the breakfast about? So there's a breakfast that's hosted by the Aspen Institute. And it's every, where are we, Thursday morning for the last, I guess, 30 years where they bring in a speaker on a topic of interest. And you speak for 15 minutes and then they throw questions at you. And it's actually a really nice environment. And this was all about big time. And what was your message? What was your message to these Congress people? Well, you know my message. My message is that these organizations have become invasive species. They are Sith Lords who started out benign and then turned to the dark side of the force. And

unless we arm you, our representatives, with insight and data and the backbone and wherewithal to break up what have become invasive species, that we're going to continue to kill innovation in our country. Our tax base is going to erode. The middle class is going to continue to experience flat wages. The government is here to serve the governed, not the governors, and these companies have become the governors. So the Sith Lords. We need to move in.

The Sith Lords. That's really interesting. I just had Shoshana Zuboff on talking about this. She has a book called Surveillance Capitalism where she has exactly the same messages, the hijacking of everything by these companies and for more dire, even more dire predictions from her

in terms of what's going to happen. Do they hear you? Do they, because you know, I've been banging this drum for a while too. So do they hear your messaging? Well, I'm curious to get your take, my take, and I'm new to Washington. I've been here 10 times in my life

and five times in the last month. They hear you, they agree, they nod their head and they are totally befuddled as to what to do about it. Because, you know, the scary thing is I think they're outgunned. One, they're outgunned by complexity. These are difficult problems to understand. Only 7% of our electorate has a background in technology or engineering. So they're just sort of, they're intimidated by the subject material.

And two, Amazon has 88 full-time lobbyists in D.C. And you've written about this. The one area of each of the big tech organizations spending that's increased faster than anything, increased faster than R&D hiring, is lobbying. So when the legislation that bans sex trafficking and puts platforms like Backpage out of business and gets a 97 to 1 vote in favor, you think, well, that's bipartisan. That should work. There's now an organization challenging that and trying to take it to the Supreme Court, worried that any inhibition of what a platform could do could be bad for them. And that organization is a front for Google. So even when it comes to sex trafficking, Google is willing to spend a lot of money

to fight it because they think it might be bad. It's the point, Scott. It's really astonishing how these people have changed. Their love of money and power is so profound and they pretend they don't have it. It's really quite fascinating. And they do think it's being better for the world. They do think they're being better for the world.

And in fact, they're eroding democracy in all parts of it at a quantumly fast rate. I'm so hopped up right now after talking to Shoshana Zuboff because I think she's a long time studier of these issues and you start to see it and we sort of are captive of it and are giving over information

in ways that we don't even realize and for free stuff for sure but it's also the people that I think at their heart people do think about this. It's just not a sexy political campaign topic. You can't say, hey, I'm going to save your data for you. Health care is the things that people care about and things like that.

But this is in a lot of ways more damaging to our – from the bottom that we don't have control and we get manipulated and from the top that we don't – we're made stupid by this. If we're not smart enough to participate, we're on the outside of it. So it's a really difficult thing to sell, I think, from these political point of view. But you brought up a key point, and Wired did some fantastic reporting on this, and that is the traditional argument against the breakup of these guys is that because antitrust is based on consumer harm and the primary metric for determining consumer harm or lack thereof is price. And they say, well, Amazon's brought down prices and Google and Facebook are free for their users. But they're looking at it the wrong way. Because think about the Facebook apps. Have they improved dramatically? Are they changed from a consumer standpoint over the last two or

three years? I would argue not a heck of a lot. But think about the price we're starting to pay around these things. Think about the price of privacy. Think about the price we're starting to pay around these things. Think about the price of privacy. Think about the price we're paying as parents with teen depression. Think about the price we're paying as citizens that our elections have potentially been contaminated. Think about the increased price we're paying, and not only a violation of our privacy, but the fact, the fear and anxiety that these platforms might be weaponized. I would argue, and the argument I made to our representatives this morning, is that the price of these organizations, the price of this product has skyrocketed. And the reason the prices have skyrocketed is because they can increase these prices because they're monopolies. We just don't see it as pricing in the traditional sense.

And also that the end consumer for Google and Facebook is P&G and Ford. And look at the pricing to buy keywords or things on Facebook. So I find that our elected representatives, and I'm naive, I'm not jaded yet, I find they're earnest, smart, thoughtful people who want to do the right thing. And I just worry, Kara, I worry that they're outgunned. Right, I think so too. But, you know, we push back cigarette manufacturing. Remember when they were ascendant or, you know, chemical?

You know, they come back, of course, in the Trump administration. They're rolling back all kinds of, you know, pollution standards and stuff. But they always come back. The forces of retrograde in this country are so strong and so irritating that we can't stop them. But I do think, you know, it's really interesting that both Senator Klobuchar and Senator Warren have, when they announced their candidacies for president, whether they win or not, antitrust was one of them. And a lot of them are hostile, especially the Democrat, Democratic candidates. And Trump is hostile in a weird way to tech, but not in any effective way. He just sort of rails on on Twitter, all places.

But all of them have some questions about tech, for sure. I don't know if they'll do anything about it, but they certainly are saying things, especially Klobuchar and her announcement this weekend. What did you think of her announcement? I thought it was interesting from an imagery standpoint, her in the snow. I love the snow. Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool. I thought she was interesting.

I mean, it was all like, of course, there were all these interesting stories all of a sudden that popped up about, you know, coffee cup throwing, but whatever. You know what the worst flex in her speech, though? She's trying to rile everybody. For all the Americans that want liberty, for all the people that want their children to have a better life, for all the seniors that want access to more affordable prescription medication. I'm like, God, that was the worst flex in the world. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, she's an interesting candidate.

I think she's, you know, she's one of the, I think the worst stories that came out was that the Republicans love her. Like, and you're like, no, no, that's bad for the, you know, the Ocasio wing of the Democratic Party. So that was an interesting, that'll be an interesting fight between the left and the middle, the left-ish,

the left side and the sort of middle side of the Democratic Party. But I think they all do stand like Ocasio and others do are sort of anti-tech in a really interesting way and are bringing up very much needed criticisms. And even Trump does, but he doesn't – there's no follow-through on anything. He has a lizard sense of the problem I think in many ways. So we'll see. We'll see bipartisanship. So you did a bonus hot take on this, but I think we're done with Bezos and his penis now. I'm just trying to get your attention. I'm just flirting

with people without you trying to get your attention. Cara, as Carly Simon said, don't you know I'm beautiful to strangers? Don't you know? Notice, Cara. I think, where are we with Bezos and the penis situation? I think we'll see how it happens, like where it goes, right? Okay.

So to speak. This is, this stuff, well, first off, I think that we need to acknowledge that the problem isn't Jeff Bezos sending out his junk. It's that the rest of us in technology have not been sending out pictures of our junk. So I just want to warn you now.

My Christmas card. My Christmas card, Kara is from big Ed and the twins. It's coming your way. No, no, that's the problem. That's the problem.

Absolutely. Sex is pig. I will have you arrested. All right. But, but we're thinking about this thing, but whether he got it, whether it was a brother-in-law, whether it was this,

it still was good that he wrote it up. And obviously it was a fantastic skit on SNL with Meet the Press and the Chuck Todd and the disgusting of the penis. It was very, very funny. I know normally high-minded journalists wouldn't talk about something like this. But it does involve the richest man in America and the president of the United States. So, Jeff Bezos' penis. What do you think it's gonna look like? I'm gonna jump right in, Chuck.

Now, when I hear billionaire's penis, I immediately think small potatoes, you know? It's like they say, if it's small and looks funny, you better have the money, honey. I find this whole Bezos thing just uber fascinating on a bunch of levels. And I think there's two interesting things. So, Karen, name the most famous female CEO. Who comes to mind?

Sheryl Sandberg. Sheryl Sandberg. Okay, Sheryl Sandberg. CEO. CEO. She's not a CEO. Probably not a lot of them, right? Ginni Ramadi, I guess.

Not famous, but Indra Nooyi. Okay, let's take those two. I won't even use their name. What if one of these individuals had been sending pictures of their genitalia out to their boyfriend with four kids and married? Would that woman have survived that? No. You're kidding. She'd be in the stock.

She'd be in the stock in the main square, and people would be throwing garbage at her. It would be a very different situation. So there's a weird— Oh, we've noticed sexism in our society. How nice of you to check in. Just catching it. Would you like to know about how gay people have been mistreated or transgender people? Would you like the lesson on that one?

7,000 years later. By the way, Fox is going after you, and I've decided I am no longer going on Tucker Carlson. It's just Tucker. You know why, Cara? Because I've decided I am of Cara. They called Carlson. You know why Kara? Because I've decided I am of Kara. They called you a handmaiden. I am of Kara. I am with you. I will jump in front

of that plastic bullet called the Tucker weapon. I am willing. Tucker Carlson's producer do not call me. I am of Kara. What a twit he is, isn't he? He's ridiculous. If he was factual, it would be alright. You know what I mean? He could say a lot of things about me, but it's all not factual.

The second part is, the most elite person, he's just a ridiculous clown. He's just a ridiculous racist clown. I knew I'd get you going. I knew I'd get you going. He's just awful. He's awful. I tape a little bit right here in Washington, and I always take pictures saying, I'm in the building, Tucker.

I'm around. I'm here. I think he has a crush on me. That's what I think. I've decided. Okay, so speaking of dicks, back to Bezos. No, no, no. No, HQ2. I don't want to talk about his piece. I want to talk about HQ2.

HQ2, is it going to happen? Are they going to, so to speak, get it up? Are they going to get that headquarters up? I'm on a roll. Feel me on this. The other thing that's really interesting here... I promise I me on this. The other thing that's really interesting here. No, HQ2. I promise I'll get there. The other thing that's really interesting is he said that owning the Washington Post was a complexifier.

It's not a complexifier. It's a save-as-assifier. Because the thing I have noticed about this is that Bezos is considered a responsible steward for the Washington Post. There is a reservoir of goodwill towards him from journalists, and every journalist has sided with him. They see him as a hero. Tucker didn't like that. I can't help but feel like, is this guy really a hero?

I appreciate the fact he's kicking back. He's like the guy who stole a car, and then the DA tried to get him to cop to a murder deal, and the criminal said, you know what? I'm not going to take this abuse. And now this person is a hero. But let's remember, this guy really screwed up. He's a mixed bag with journalists.

You can be that. You can do that. That's okay. I don't love him for the HQ stew stuff. I don't love him for the information grab. You guys are slobbering over Jeff Bezos right now. No, not at all. You are slobbering over him. No, no, no.

I think the gimme's for the New York thing... I'm totally on the Ocasio side on this one. I don't know. 100%. Okay, so you want to talk... We can have two arguments that are like and dislike someone at the same time. You go first. What do you think is going to happen in New York?

HQ2. I think it's in danger. I think it's possibly in danger. Unless Amazon gives. And I don't... Amazon doesn't like to give. Yeah. you think is going to happen in New York? H2O. I think it's in danger. I think it's possibly in danger unless Amazon gives. And Amazon doesn't like to give. They don't have to give. The Staten Island is offering up Staten Island and stuff like that. What do you think?

So I don't know because I don't feel like I'm in touch with New York politics. I just think Andrew Cuomo is the worst poker player ever. I generally believe that we forget these companies are run by humans. Their algorithms drive them, but they're run by humans. And I believe that Jeff Bezos at 55 years old, worth $150 billion, wants to be within a helicopter ride of the Disneyland for a billionaire who's 55, and that is New York City. And so I think he's going to figure out a way to maintain momentum in his midlife crisis by having HQ2A be as it's within riding distance or a bike ride of universal studios he's obsessed with universal i think a 55 year old single man wants to be within spitting distance of manhattan so i think they're going to figure it out all right all right okay he seems more like a brooklyn character to me anyway when we get back we're going to talk more about these things when we get back we're going to take a quick break we're going to be talking about uh fails and wins and some predictions. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer

with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion. It's mind-blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale.

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We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive? Even my own father fell victim to a, thank goodness, a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim and we have these conversations all the time. So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other. Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Support for this show is brought to you by Nissan Kicks.

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Available feature, Bose is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Okay, we're back with Scott Galloway, who's down in D.C. lobbying our various representatives. And I'm in New York City. Wins and fails this week. We're here to do that. I would say I'm going to go up first because I think the win was hashtag Kara Jack, and yet it was also a fail. So we can do a rundown of what I learned from him, which was very little,

but it was really interesting. And I don't know if you paid attention to it, but much of the internet did. And it was a goat rodeo. It was a clusterfuck. It was fascinating. So tell me what you think of Kara Jack. So you call it a win-loss or a win-lose? Yeah.

Yeah, I think I won. I don't know. There were some things he said, and there were a lot of insights when I kept saying be specific, and he wasn't. I think people understood the difficulties of our job. And I think he did say a few things, including I think something that a lot of people were sort of disturbed by, which was picking Elon Musk as his favorite Twitter personality, which I think was an interesting choice. But other people

felt it was exactly indicative of the problems because Elon has such a complex history on Twitter, both bad and good. So what do you think? I'd love to know your thoughts. So you call it a win-lose, and I think you're half right. I thought it was awful, and I think that it was like watching C-SPAN in Chinese. It was both boring yet confusing. I just didn't—I found the whole thing ridiculous. I

tuned in because I like you and I was interested to see what, what he might say. But he, the problem is these people realize that there's no defense for what they're doing. So they employ communications tactics, like I'll testify in front of Congress as long as I can play beat the clock and say a bunch of gibberish for five minutes and then go on to the next person. There was a lot of gibberish going on. And he did, quite frankly, I think he played us and I'll say us because when you give him questions via Twitter, he can say bullshit like our policy on hate speech has evolved. What the fuck does that mean? Yes.

And you would try and press him and he couldn't be pressed because he wasn't sitting across the desk for you. So to me, it is obscene that an individual who is responsible for the algorithms that create some of the most important or influential media in the world is shit scared of the media and won't come on your show. So, Jack, he does not get a pass. Come on the show. He said he wants to branch out. You are the branch. Come on the show. He said he wants to branch out. You are the branch. Come on the show. I can't hijack him, for goodness sake.

But the thing is, I don't totally agree with you. I think there was one, people saw the lack of transparency, one. Two, they saw, a lot of people understood, it was talked about a lot how he did that. Some people had very funny versions of it. Felix Salmon had a really funny tweet and stuff like that. But you're right. They obfuscate and they find ways to get around it. And I think the medium, one of the things that was very indicative was that the CEO of Twitter didn't know how to use Twitter or couldn't use Twitter.

It wasn't able to have a conversation and their whole focus is conversations. It wasn't able to have a conversation, and their whole focus is conversations. And so I think that was—I think that's—to me, you know, for example, in the Mark Zuckerberg podcast, when he couldn't answer the question of how he felt about the deaths in Myanmar and India, it indicated something. It was a very big moment for people to go, oh, he can't articulate it. And I think in those white space moments, you get just as much information about these people. And little tiny bits of it. And I get that it's – I get they're obfuscating.

I get they're trying to run away from real encounters with real people and real journalists. But they do – they don't win. I don't think that was a win for him at all, though you might. No. Because I don't think people – It was reminiscent of Sheryl Sandberg's talk at DLD and that is by the end of it, everybody was bored yet angry. And it just, he didn't do himself any favors.

So if you want to be, if you want to be CEO of a large media company and you want to pretend to take responsibility, then, you know, then stiffen up, put on a tie,

bring the nose ring and the beard down and talk to Cara and meet of Cara, meet of Cara, meet her, meet her handmaid. There are fewer and fewer people who want to Kara and meet, of Kara, meet of Kara, meet her, meet her handmaid. There are fewer

and fewer people who want to meet with me, but that's okay. I don't care. I still have some power. So, but I think it is interesting. You know, we have done a lot of interviews, and he does show up compared to many people. And actually, one of the things, the only thing that I thought was relatively, he's not easily offended. A lot of these other people, I have to deal with their offense

at my mean questions, and he is not someone who gets offended. And that's a pleasure, I have to say, compared to other people. He's a professional in that manner. I don't think that's it. I don't think that's it. I don't mind. Listen, it's just a small thing. I think he's actually very offended.

I just think he has a lot of Botox and you can't register his emotions as well. You can't see. You couldn't tell. He has that nice beard going on. I don't think you can tell. All right, moving on to another fail, this Esquire magazine cover story performing the white American boy in the age of Trump during Black History Month. I had a little few tweets about this.

Any thoughts? You know, Esquire, let's go grab a highball with Angie Dickinson after the Johnny show. It's just, why do we care? I think Esquire has done some good work. Iinson after the Johnny show. It's just, why do we care? I think Esquire's done some good work. I actually like the people there. I think they've done an amazing job staying relevant, but it's literally like, let's go buy a Cadillac. I mean, I love,

I gotta admit, I love Esquire because I like the old school stuff, but why does Kara Swisher care what Esquire puts on its cover? Because it's ridiculous. They're just like, what I don't like is I don't like is like how they're like, oh my God,

we're being, one of the editors' DMs was DMed. He publicly did a DM which is like, shows you exactly how much they love, you know,

you're right, Angie Dickinson is right. What is this internet thing? And it just was like this typical, like they just knew, like can you just like have just some awareness

of the modern age? That's just a tiny bit. Maybe you start with a black kid on the cover of the first one, like, or whatever, just something different. And they just, they wanted to be controversial, and then they didn't want the controversy, which is irritating. If you're going to go out there, you know, all these whining journalists about how they're attacked. I'm just like, please, like, I have to deal with Tucker Carlson for fuck's sake. Like, just suck it up. Like, suck up the criticism and expect it when you do something like that. That's my feeling.

I think I have more empathy for that kind of tone-deaf stupidity that constantly emerges from white male heterosexuals. Keep in mind, Cara, and I hope this makes you more patient with me, when I first moved to Laguna before my parents got divorced, hold me, but anyways, before they split up, we got this thing called cable TV. And you know what I watch four times

a day, two hours a day for an eight-year-old developing male mind? Literally, this is what I do. I dream of Jeannie. That's what I was raised on. master genie get to your bottle so i deserve some forgiveness i've come a long way people want no you get none i had to have my sensitivity my sensitivity training was the partridge family all right whatever whatever you know i had a long discussion about ben shapiro with my 13old, which was a nightmare of enormous proportions. Like, I'm just saying, this stuff works online. This, like, sort of bullshit works online, and it just is exhausting.

All right, we've got to go because we have very limited time. I didn't get to my wins or my predictions. I'm going to do what is your wins very quickly. Okay, so my win, I think scripted the defining era of our, of this age or the defining art form is television and a TV show that I just absolutely adore as Modern Family. And in the midst of all this noise about Amazon, they announced they're going to have their final season next year. And I watch, I am watching all 11 seasons with my, my two boys and it makes us all feel and feel closer as a family.

I think the amalgam of creativity, writing, great acting is just wonderful. And I would like to play a clip. I don't know if we're... I had the showrunner and creator of it, Steve Levitan, on code many years ago. Genius. But there's one clip I'd like to play,

and it's Jay Pritchard, who is played by Ed O'Neill. He's the patriarch of the family, and the episode is about wearing your emotions on your sleeves or keeping your emotions bottled up. And in this scene, he's talking about when his father passed away. Feelings! I didn't even cry at his funeral, you believe that? The guy was my whole world.

Not a tear. Everybody looking at me like I didn't love him. But he knew. He had to know, right? Of course he did. Son of a bitch, that felt good, didn't it? Wow. I know.

They just want therapy. All right, Scott, what did you get from that? You know, that show, at our age, Kara, you know what I want from media? I want to feel something, and Modern Family makes me feel something every week. Okay, well, that's what media's supposed to do when it's good.

I thought it was supposed to make us think. I want it to feel. I'm done thinking. Well, I went and saw Aquaman, and it didn't make me feel anything except that guy's really hot. That was a lot of movie. I had to say I did get my whatever, $29 worth in terms of stuff.

It was a big, it was a lot. Good. There was a lot going on there. But you're right. You do want to feel something. You do. You know, like how you felt watching Black Panther. Whenever it's done really well, it really, media's wonderful. Most of the time it makes people sick these days, unfortunately. Predictions, predictions.

Okay, my one prediction. Barry Diller coming in and he does not wait. Let me just tell you, he does not wait. I am so scared of Barry Diller. The two of you together. Well, you should be. We're doing a podcast to talk about his thing in the river here in New York. And he has lots of things to say. I love interviewing Barry Diller.

Yeah, that'll be a good one. So, okay, my prediction, I'm in D.C. I'm going to send him after you if you're. No, very, he's, I love interviewing Barry Diller. Yeah, that'll be a good one. So, okay. My prediction, I'm in DC. I'm going to send him after you if he's, if you're. No, no, no, no. I was literally just thinking, say nothing about me. That guy scares the shit out of me. He should. So predictions, please. Besides you'll be dead if we don't hurry. Okay. So, uh, in the next 30 to 60 days, a new candidate for president on the democrat side announces and becomes the front runner or maybe the number two and it's somebody that 95 of the american public has never heard of who and what are you doing obama who is it no that's close it's senator bennett from colorado

oh i just had lunch with him yes he's fascinating not lunch we had coffee um yes he's really interesting that's a really interesting man he's very egg Not lunch, we had coffee. Yes, he's really interesting. That's a really interesting man. He's very egghead-y though. I like him. I like his little egghead moves. Character over charisma, centrist candidate that's not a billionaire. Colorado is the most likable state in the world. This is a guy who's genuinely concerned with the middle class. He's an odd person, married once, wonderful family, school superintendent, wants to double down on capitalism. And the most important criteria, he checks the box. All of us Democrats are going to come to the conclusion that there's only one criteria, and that is who can beat Trump.

And 70% taxes and Medicare for all is a way to reelect Trump. This guy is a capitalist. He's got business experience. He cares. He's into the middle class. All right, I like him here today. Senator Michael Bennett. I do. You know, it was interesting. My son yelled down from upstairs yesterday. Do you know this Michael Bennett person?

I just watched his speech, you know, when he was yelling at whatever. At Cruz? Oh, my God. Oh, that was amazing. These crocodile tears that the senator from Texas is crying for first responders are too hard for me to take. They're too hard for me to take. Because when the senator from Texas shut this government down in 2013, my state was flooded. It was underwater.

People were killed. People's houses were destroyed. Their small businesses were ruined forever. And my son was like, I like him. And he was, my son who's voting in 2020 was like in the Kamala. He liked Kamala. Now he likes Michael Bennett, which was really interesting. Really?

Louis likes Senator Bennett? Let me do full disclosure here. His brother is James Bennett, who I work for at the New York Times. He's the head of the opinion section. Is that disclosure or name-dropping? I like that. Name-dropping, hidden in disclosure. No, it's going to be an issue. It's going to be run in the opinion section of the New York Times

in the middle of a presidential election. It's going to be an issue. So you and I are going to host a fundraiser for Senator Bennett. And you're going to have interesting people, and I'm going to invite hot people. And you know why I like to have hot people at parties? I would be happy to have coffee with them and give them my thoughts on the Internet, but no thank you. I'm not raising any money for that.

Come on. Thank you very much. Come on. I am of Kara. Look at me. Yeah, well, you can go. All right, I have to go. Scott, I have to go talk to Barry Diller.

I'm going to send him your way or his people or his minions. No, don't do that. You'll never be heard. You'll be in the Hudson under that island. I will take on Tucker, not Barry. Send Tucker. You are out for the night. Go deal with Tucker for me, okay?

Go on that show and slap him around. All right, Scott, you're going to be out for the next couple of weeks globetrotting, so we'll have some guest hosts in your absence who will be, I'm sure, much better than you. Low bar. Low bar. Low bar. Where are you going? Where are you going? I'm going to Dubai, Kenya, Tanzania, and Rwanda.

Oh, my God. You're going to Dubai? Did you see that story about the princess? Are you shaming me? Should I not be going? You shouldn't be going. I'm going to go and spend a lot of money and meet a lot of nice people and eat some great food. You need to read that story about them.

They're so anti-women. They're so anti-women. A, I'm not that interested, and B, if I read it and they catch it on me, you might not ever hear from me again. You need to read it. You need to read it. I'm going to send it to you. You're going to read it before you go. And then where else are you going? Dubai, which I will never go to again, but go ahead.

Dubai is like Vegas minus the charm. No, you have to read this story. I'm not going to speak to you until you read this story. So what's the other place you're going? Kenya, Tanzania, and Rwanda. Wow, that's a trip. Fantastic. Are you taking your kids? It's my wife's birthday, and she's always wanted to go to Africa.

So no kids. All right, bring back some tech and media stories. I want you to bring back some tech and media stories about how they're using the Internet and stuff like that. I don't want homework. I don't want homework. Okay, global perspective from those horrible Dubai and those places. Okay? All right, I would love to hear that.

Rebecca Sinanis produces this show. Nishat Kerwa is the executive producer. Thanks also to Eric Johnson. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week, more of a breakdown of all things tech and business. If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.

Thanks very much. Hey, everyone. This is Rebecca, Pivot producer extraordinaire. Hey, everyone. This is Rebecca, Pivot producer extraordinaire. So as soon as we got out of recording this episode, news broke that Amazon is pulling HQ2 out of New York. So Cara and Scott are going to come back in for a bonus episode hot take on what all of this means, and it'll be in your feed later today. So stay tuned for that. And Bezos, if you're listening, quit messing with my production schedule. city-sized crossover vehicle that's been completely revamped for urban adventure. From the design and styling to the performance, all the way to features like the Bose Personal

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