Pivot - Kara’s back in action; a listener question on WeWork’s impact on co-working companies, and a pop culture quiz

Episode Date: January 28, 2020

Kara and Scott talk about the spread of coronavirus and how it is affecting China. They discuss how the story of Kobe Bryant's tragic death played out on Twitter. Also, YouTube is now having their moderators sign a release acknowledging they could get PTSD from doing the work... Kara has thoughts. In listener mail, we get a question about players in the co-working space and how they are strategizing after the fall of weWork. It's definitely a FAIL that Kara did not get invited to Jeff Bezos' mansion party. In wins, Scott remembers Clayton Christensen. PLUS: Brooke Hammerling -- writer of the newsletter " Pop Culture Mondays" joins Kara and Scott for a special segment on the biggest pop culture moments of the week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. the rhinovirus. We're going to talk about coronavirus much more serious later, but it's bad. You get a fever and then you get a cold and you get a sore throat and then you cough like you're dying of consumption. So it goes on, I have to say. And you don't smell anything, which is not good in some cases and bad in others. So it's still here with me after all this time. So isn't that sort of part and parcel of just having kids? Is this everyone is sick all the time?

No, no, no, no, no, no kids. No kid thing because I wasn't around them. It just, you can touch anything. Like you touch a glass or a counter. This thing apparently lives on everything. Wash your hands. That's all I got to say. Everybody wash your hands and wear a mask because this is one that is not in the list

of stuff with flu shots or anything else. And it lasts forever. It's really, I've never had a cold like this. Anyway, let's move on. Actually, there's some really, it's not the best week this week as many weeks are, but tragically, basketball legend Kobe Bryant was killed in a helicopter crash. His 13-year-old daughter, who is a very promising, also a very promising basketball player, was also killed in the crash. His 13-year-old daughter, who is a very promising, also a very promising basketball player, was also killed in the crash. You know, just I think people were shocked yesterday when the news broke. And there's all kinds of stuff that went back and forth on Twitter. They had

names that were not, and they thought all his daughters were with him. They thought other people were there. I'm not even going to repeat the people they thought were there, who had to get on Twitter and say, I'm not dead, essentially. But just a terrible—they were flying in bad weather. I think that's what it looks like in conditions other people wouldn't fly in. I mean, let's—what do you—I mean, this is just one of these things. Yeah, there's not—I don't know. There's not a lot to take away from this other than sadness. I think there were two other kids.

I think there were a total of three kids on the flight. I mean, this is a tragedy, you know, on all sorts of levels. I think they'll talk a lot about, I don't know if it was a single pilot. Helicopters have generally seen as more dangerous. I mean, a lot of people, wealthy people, similar to in Sao Paulo and Los Angeles, had taken to the skies because the traffic has become so bad. And then at what point do pilots have, you know, what are your limits in terms of when you'll fly and when you won't? So, for example, it came out today that the LAPD had grounded all their helicopters because of the weather.

And I also think it's interesting. A couple things that I noticed as it was unfolding. One, TMZ came out before supposedly the Bryant family had been notified. They did. The issue is does media have some sort of responsibility on issues like these to coordinate with authorities such that we can give families the grace of finding out from the authorities and not hearing about it on Twitter? Well, obviously I think so. But it's just, you know, Harvey Levin has been sort of pioneering this kind of instant firsts. I can't imagine there was even a question of – in that office of let's get it up.

Unfortunately, I would have not made that call. But, you know, it's the atmosphere now of this twitchy immediate thing. But you're right. In any case, it's an incredible tragedy. We're going to talk about more later. But, of course, Bryant, as many reports noted today, was not without controversy. He had an alleged sexual assault in 2003 that got an enormous amount of attention that later he apologized for and was settled out of court. But there's all kinds of things. But he had been doing a ton around kids and playing basketball and was taking his daughter to a team meet, a travel team with the other kids that he had created this center where kids play up in the area he was flying to.

He had been well-known for using a helicopter actually to get around from his house. He lived down south. So he got back and forth in games. from his house. He lived down south. So he got back and forth from games. And the other observation was, it feels as if his legacy will be a lot about his daughters and what a family man he was. He was married, I think, at the age of 22. And unlike a lot of athletes, stayed married. And he was married for 19 years, four daughters. And people have been talking about speaking a lot about that and also in our society he was going to go down as an iconic figure

regardless but there's definitely in terms of cementing yourself as an icon dying early seems to be a component of it because people just remember you I really live long well we all want to live long but James Dean and Marilyn Monroe just weren't that talented

I'm not going to go into it with you. We're not discussing dead people talent. But he's – it was – he had – I just had a baby actually in June. Yeah, seven months ago. Yeah. I know. It made me sad. I just had a baby.

It just made me think. All right. Let's get you out of this, Cara. Get me out of this. OK. Let's talk about – Let's talk about corruption. Get me out of this, Cara.

Get me out of this. OK, let's talk about— Let's talk about corruption. Let's talk about the president actually threatening a representative of Congress in this weird tweet, which, of course, he always tries to draw the line. But this is such an implicit threat as the impeachment trial was going on. Trump tweeted on Sunday that Representative Adam Schiff is a, quote, corrupt politician. That's all in caps. And probably a very sick man. He has not paid the price, comma, yet for what he has done to our country, which was, I don't know, it just seemed

to like be a whistle call for all the crazies out there to do something about it. And I just, Jack George can put it on his list. On Meet the Press, the congressman said he believed it was a threat. I'm with the congressman on this. And then, of course, John Bolton, when it looks like he's probably – the GOP senators are going to use anti-press logic to not call witnesses, which is – it's just astonishing, their corruption and toxicity. But when they do that, like Bolton – someone near Bolton dropped this book, which is like the president's a liar and I was in the room. And that's what the book is called.

It's an astonishing situation we're in. Yeah, John Bolton is like Sofia Coppola in 1992. He's like, you know, let me come to the Oscars. He's just he wants to testify. Yeah. I'm like most Americans. I want to pretend to understand what's going on. And like I give a shit.

to pretend to understand what's going on and like I give a shit. The thing that just angers me and it's my fail is all of these, quote unquote, moderate Republicans pretending to give a good damn and be thoughtful. Well, I don't know. I need to think about witness. It's like they might as well. They're just such incredible whores. They're like, how do I pick up another 11 moderate votes by pretending to give a shit and have any no-ons? Stop insulting whores. Stop it. Okay. You're right. Stop it. Let's get to a couple more big stories. give a shit and have any nuance. Stop insulting wars. Stop it. Okay. You're right. Stop it. Let's get to a couple more big stories. This is perfect. I'm sick.

Coronavirus in China is now spreading across the world, including the United States. Over 2,000 people have been found to have it in China. At least 80 people have died. Five cases in the U.S., two in California, one each in Washington, Illinois, and Arizona. The virus appears to have originated in a wholesale market in Wuhan. Wait, I'm on to something. I'm playing house. Do you have a bunch of dead chickens lying around anywhere in Brooklyn?

No, this is about bats, I think. Anyway, south of Beijing, Americans in Wuhan have been evacuated to San Francisco. This is so much news. Residents of the province where in Wuhan is located have been barred from Hong Kong until further notice. China, the most cracked down country, cannot crack down on this as happens with these viruses because people move around. It has banned wildlife trade nationwide until the epidemic passes. The ordeal has re-evigorated skepticism on Chinese meat markets where this and SARS are suspected originated.

Two of Hong Kong's biggest attractions, the Disneyland and Ocean Park, were closed. I have been to Ocean Park. What's that like? That's a water park? Oh, no. It's like a Disneyland there. It's wonderful. My son forced me there.

But it's weird and interesting. And the Swisher is like amusement parks, which just doesn't fit at all. No, Swisher doesn't. Swisher goes with Alex. Swisher likes him because I'm a good mom. It was Lunar New Year over the weekend, which is trying to speak as tourist season. So this is just, it started on Weibo, this government action after Weibo where people were doing this 45 million views on a popular social media reject game meet. That's what's going on here. So thoughts, they can't really censor it. They don't,

people know, People are dying. Well, I generally think, I mean, a few things here. One, I think that we, there's good reminders, including this one, that we shouldn't take for granted, the government and things like the CDC and the FDA, that regulation works. And that when you have a disregard for regulation around health and food and proximity of people to livestock, you know, bad things happen. And mainland China over-indexes on this stuff, right? Whenever we want to find some scary antidote or whatever it is, we go to get the flu shot. We go into these regions. I personally think this stuff is wildly overhyped. I think it's important there's public education, but I think this is much more spectacle than it is historic. And I hate to say

that for fear that it does turn into something, but I almost feel as if it's a, you know, I get it. It's dangerous. The CDC will do a great job. Public needs to be aware of it. But I generally think this stuff ends up usually being a head fake. Usually, until the one, until the one. It's a fair point. It's a fair point. You know, my ex was working for President Obama during the Ebola crisis. And I remember they couldn't say anything about it. But suddenly she knew a lot about it. I see I'm obsessed with plagues. I know all about plagues, all of them.

Really? And I feel like this is what's going to take down. What's your favorite plague? Well, the bubonic, really. You've got to go with that one. But these things are going to take over the world in ways that I think people – but what's interesting is social media does have an impact. People are aware of them even if there's rumors going up and down. It makes people aware instantly of these things.

But taking care of these things are really problematic. And, of course, you need to have an administration, a U.S. administration especially, who actually has science advisors. So we're kind of not in a great, I'm sure he doesn't even know what's going on. And I'm hoping that God is just self-medicating and doing it themselves. It's really interesting, though, because, or I think it's interesting, if you had taken the infectious nature of Ebola with the latence of HIV, you'd effectively have the end of the world. The best or the most fortunate attribute about Ebola was that people were dead or very sick very soon. So they were easy to identify.

Yeah. But if you'd had, if Ebola had had, say, a three or five year dormancy period, it would have gone everywhere because you wouldn't have known. So there's, yeah, these things are very interesting and very scary. You know, you and I will have dinner and I will talk of plagues with you. Well, that sounds like a—how about a bucket of chicken and we watch the Super Bowl? It's a great challenge of this world, the way we move around. I'm telling you. You think plagues and proximity?

I've watched every plague movie, even the one with Dustin Hoffman. And is it our species self-correcting because of overpopulation? I mean, there's a reason for these things. They actually supposedly play a role in the progress of the species. Yes, they do. They do. Like everything. It's like fire. Yeah, but still, it's not the way you want it. You don't have to, you know. Yes. So anyway, last very quick story. Casey Newton had another scoop that was about his YouTube moderator story. Something that when I've talked about, they're being forced to sign waivers acknowledging that the job can give them PTSD so that these companies are protected.

Accenture, which operates the moderation site for YouTube, distributed the document to workers four days after Casey published these. They know. They know. They know. These companies measure everything. These companies measure. Why does that bother you or why does that surprise you, I guess I should say? Because they should – there's going to be – let me just say there's going to be how much they know about what the traumatization of their moderators or the depression among teens or the addiction stuff, how many people they have working on these topics is going to come out.

The details of how much they know and do it anyway. I think it's very legally problematic for them no matter how many things they make people sign. Thank you. Yep. A hundred percent agree. It's not surprising. Anytime you go to work in any situation, the first thing that your employer is going to do is try and figure out a way to cover their ass. But in this case, they know the impact. They know the damage. I think this is something that they're aware of and they're very, they're protecting themselves obviously legally which would make sense but they have psychologists in there they have sociologists in those companies

you know, I think Tristan Harris gave us a little sense of that they know exactly the impact, I think the mental health stuff that you talk about, that they have they are very aware of what this way before we all have become of the impact of these things. And they'll say they didn't mean it and apologize and say sorry.

Yeah. Well, the issue isn't legal disclosure around moderators. The issue is why do they need moderators and why can't they have policies such that we eliminate a lot of this and – or people just can't see it. I just don't. Why wouldn't they, if they spend a fraction of the money on moderation, on technologies or policies to kick people off, including those who threaten other public officials, and maybe even, I don't know, move to a different business model, call me crazy and ask everyone to spend a dollar a month on these platforms. But this is, yeah, I agree. The problem is much more earlier. I agree with you.

It's much, it's built into the business. So rather than hiring moderators, they just need to fundamentally change their business model and the incentives. And I'm now convinced that until a big executive shows up in an orange jumpsuit, nothing's going to happen. Or a big executive hands us some documents that we need to look at that say a lot of this. That's what we need. We need some documents. That's not ominous with your raspy voice. I know that. Documents. There you go. There you go. Anyway, aren't you glad to have me back? You missed me, didn't you? I do, but I always miss you. Yeah. I always miss you because I'm a bit of a masterclass. I was supposed to call you this weekend, but I sounded literally like, how are you doing? Scott, it's time for a quick break.

We'll be right back with listener mail, wins and fails, and a new segment with Silicon Valley insider and author of a new and super popular and very funny newsletter called Pop Culture Monday, Brooke Hammerlin. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter.

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Hey, this is Rebecca Sinanis. I produce this show. You might know me from the credits, but here's today's listener mail. It comes from Kyle Laidwig, and he wants to know, after the WeWork debacle, what's up with the other co-working startups like Industrious, Convene, Ucommune, Breather, and The Wing? Has the WeWork story tainted the whole category? Are the subtle differences in customer segments and lease structures enough to make the co-working business work? And mostly, what would you do if you were leading marketing for these co-working startups? Run away from the fire or charge through the flames to grab market share. Thanks, Kyle. By the way, last week, WeWork sold its share in the

wing. They did that before that. I happen to know about that as part of an effort to narrow itself. Core Business also, I think the wing wanted away from those people. Anyway, they sold part of that stake to Google Ventures, which I think the wing is thrilled about. So what do you think? What do you think the differences are? This is an area you know well. First off, they don't have the same capital complexion. I don't know much about the space other than I took on too much office space, and I'm now Adam Neumann minus the charm and $2.7 billion. I'm trying to lease out desks. And hair. Also hair. And so I can speak to the softness of

the commercial real estate market firsthand in Soho. But anyways, the no tell takes a different approach. No tell was doing what WeWork was doing, and that is they go to a company and say, all right, here's a schedule or sliding scale of flexibility. Do you want a one year lease, a two year lease, a three year lease? Do you want Do you want sort of lame, sort of cool, ridiculously hip furnishings? Do you want modest tech, good tech, cutting-edge tech? And they create almost like a buffet menu and do it all for you and charge a decent premium. And it's actually a pretty good business model. And I think that their capital allocation strategy isn't just ridiculously drunk. So I think those things have, they have much more, I don't know, they're likely much more viable. The problem is they still have

an enormously drunk competitor that's overfunded and the space has been overfunded, which is going to hurt everybody. But everybody is doing exactly what they should be doing. And that is they're focusing on a specific niche and they're coming up from below. They're saying, all right, the wing was different. The wing had a niche, right? And it sent a very strong signal about what it was. WeWork's strategy was just to basically overwhelm the market with capital and drive down returns and just make a bunch of stupid decisions. I call that spray and pray. Spray and pray. There you go. So I think that I'm hopeful for the other guys. WeWork, you know, you always want to think everyone's all evil. That's not true.

We did evolve the co-working space. There are a lot of entrepreneurs that want to get out of the house, that want, you know, flexibility. It's a good product. We never thought product wasn't good. Irritating in many ways when I was there. But the wing, I think, is different. I do want to, I'm thinking of actually joining the joining and paying money if I use it a lot. I don't – you know, I don't –

Yeah, that's called being a consumer, Kara. In any case, what do you think is going to happen? I think these are going to be smallish businesses. That's what I think. Smallish, local, maybe. A couple of cities. Then they'll be valued at 0.1 to 1 times revenues. And the VCs and the founders are going to have to wake up from their consensual hallucination that these were tech companies that warranted tech valuations.

They're interesting real estate. are going to have to wake up from their consensual hallucination that these were tech companies that warranted tech valuations. They're interesting real estate. Most great real estate companies are built over decades, take slow, thoughtful property-by-property decisions, great management. There's a lot of friction in the business. But the thing about real estate is there's a lot of friction on the way up, but there's a lot of friction on the way down. And that is the wealthiest people in America come from two cohorts. They're either entrepreneurs or they own real estate. And real estate, just the cash flow, the passive income, I always say to kids, the way to know you're rich is to have passive income greater than your burn. And one of the ways that really wealthy families create passive income for future generations is quite frankly the real estate ownership.

So these are businesses that are more like iconic dynasty businesses. The thought that you could scale it up and get a weird valuation. That's not going to happen. But I'm hopeful for the other guys. We'll see. You know, the wing has daycare there. It's really nice.

Well, Equinox just opened up a co-sharing, co-working place. I mean, everyone decided to kind of jump in. It's, you know, we'll see. I think it's what they have that differentiates them. Like, again, like the daycare.

I'll go there. Focus. Niche. Yeah, focus on something. It'll be a niche. the daycare. Niche. Yeah. Niche. Focus on something. It'll be a niche. In any case, we'll see how it continues to – it'll be interesting to see how they clean up the WeWork situation. I mean I don't think it's not going to be there. You're right.

I don't think it's going to be. It's not – the reality is it's not that interesting a space. The only reason it's interesting – oh, and by the way, I'm plugging. I'm doing a listening party tonight. I'm doing a listening party tonight. The Wondery, I don't know what you call it, miniseries on WeWork is coming out tonight, which the dog plays a central role. Of course. That's right.

That's right. And by the way, these listening parties, Kara, you put on eye pads. It's at the Soho House. It's very pretentious, speaking of clubs. Yeah. And you put on eye patches or eye things, and you just listen for the full experience. Oh, no, really? A room full of earpick?

Isn't that cool? You didn't mention me once, did you, in this whole thing? You just took credit for the whole thing, didn't you? Oh, no, I have a shirt that says it's her. It's all, I owe everything. Okay, whatever. I owe everything to this one. I've taken down enough companies.

Yeah, 30 years working my ass off, and you discovered me overnight. Thanks very much. Whatever. Thanks years working my ass off and you discovered me overnight. Whatever. Thanks very much. Whatever. Thanks very much. You know what? Just don't. Rebecca Sinanis is the reason I'm here.

All right. Thank you, Cara. Anyway, wins and fails. Would you like to start? I can start. You start. I was invited to this giant Bezos house party in D.C. that was attended by everyone from Ivanka Trump.

That was a win? That sounded like fun. I don't know. I don't know what it is. Why did Cara Nadal go? Here's a fail. I was not invited to Jeff Bezos' giant house party. Thank you.

Why does anybody care? What's the problem with that? I believe in the right of free assembly. If a 54-year-old wants to have a party, that's fine. He built a beautiful, beautiful house. I think it was like an old museum. I can't remember. It's huge. It's near my ex's house. It's in Calorama. Ivanka Trump could have walked. She lives nearby.

Well, this is the thing I don't get, and it stuck out to me. Yeah. 11 bedrooms, 25 bathrooms. Does he have an abnormally small prostate or bladder? What's going on here? It's for entertainment. Does he literally need to pee every seven steps? He's like, all right, disrupt the world, avoid taxes.

I got to pee. I mean, there's 25 bathrooms. Entertainment. It's huge, all right, disrupt the world, avoid taxes. I got to pee. I mean, there's 25 bathrooms. Entertainment. It's huge. His property is huge. If you walk by it, I walk the dogs by it. I make them pee. It's the old textile museum or something. It's nice when billionaires buy public institutions and museums. I think that shows the progress of our society. It's for exactly this party. That's what it's for. For his Washington presence, the Washington Post will probably do things there. He will never live there. Maybe he'll stay there. It's a hotel. It's huge. It's huge. It's huge and rather – it's rather big. a lot of controversy. He made $33 million last year. And what struck me is he advised, he was, I think he's pretty much the personal banker and advisor to Adam Newman, including creating a stocking horse of a debt rescue package, which he was paid a $50 million fee,

regardless of whether it was a success or not. He made $33 million. And it struck me that any guy who is the top, the top advisor to a guy who managed to get $2.7 billion commission in exchange for losing 17, who makes $33 million, is underpaid. So Jamie Dimon, in my view, is the most underpaid executive in America right now. I know, but whatever. All right. Anyway, sorry. Bezos home. How big's the garage, Kara? I don't even know if there's a garage. It's a big house. All right. It's a big house. Good stuff. What's your big house. All right. It's a big house.

What's your win and fail, sir? Oh, my win. Okay. So my win, and this is a bit, you need to give me some running room here. So everyone's going to be talking about the incredible loss. We've got to get to Brooke at some point this decade, but go ahead. There we go. Everyone's going to be talking about the loss of sport because of Kobe Bryant, but the academic world and specifically the world of strategy lost an icon last week. Clayton Christensen, Professor Christensen, a Rhodes Scholar, spent two years in South Korea on mission and pioneered this notion of disruptive innovation. And up until that point, innovation was seen as one, largely the domain of big companies that had the capital to invest, and two, were a function of big macro factors, you know, the steam engine coming along or the processor. And he coined the term disruptive innovation. And that was the

notion that, one, it wasn't macro that companies actually could make decisions that were the driving factors in creating innovation and or that disruption was a function of how poor the incumbents were. And I talk about this a lot, and that is the innovator's dilemma, which everyone says, but most people don't understand what it means, and that is companies have such a vested interest in protecting their legacy assets that they're somewhat loathe to innovate. And then a small company comes in, and even at the fringes says, you know, I'm not going to go after all of e-commerce. I'm not going after Sears or Walmart. I'm just going to go after books. And the incumbents ignore them. We're not going to go after movies. We're not going to go after original scripted TV shows. We're just going to ship people cute little CDs in the mail. And everybody ignores them because

they're tiny and they're not a threat. Oh, we're Luxottica. We're not worried about that cute little company that sends five pairs of glasses to your home for that ridiculously cheap price of 99 bucks. And they start biting at your ankle, and then you wake up, and they're such an incredible value proposition. They're so nimble. They're so hungry. They're so unafraid. They have so few legacy assets that inhibit or hamstring their decisions. You wake up, and you no longer have a little poodle at your ankle. A great white shark has you halfway up, you know, and it's your torso is halfway in this great white shark. So he brought up this. He pioneered the world of disruptive innovation and is probably the most influential academic over the last 20 years.

Everybody, everybody was. And also he pioneered the good Internet and stuff like that, the good innovative. He was such a decent man. Stuff like that. The good innovative. He was such a decent man. And he had he had a he had a an influence on me tactically or professionally and from a content standpoint. And that one in business school, you're not supposed to bring personal stuff. It's about business. And he was really one of the first academics to taxonomize life lessons in business strategy. taxonomize life lessons in business strategy. And he talked about the notion that you had to invest early and often in your relationship with your family, or you would end up bankrupt as a person, regardless of your success. He said that he talked a lot about not judging your success by the

accolades you receive, but your ability to put yourself in a position to improve other people's lives. And I started about five or seven years ago talking about the difference between success and happiness in my class, in large part because Professor Christensen really gave academics license to talk about personal values in the context of business. He was a very decent man, wrote an iconic book called How Will You Measure Your Life that talked a lot about this. But anyways, this is a giant. He melded business and character, gone at 67. He was actually quite ill. And what was weird is 10 years ago, he unknowingly launched my speaking career. I started getting calls from his agency to come speak about innovation. And I got six calls in three weeks, and I'd had maybe

two calls before that in a year. And they said, Clay's sick weeks, and I'd had maybe two calls before that in a year, and they said, Clay's sick. So they're like, get that crazy guy from NYU. But he got ill about eight or 10 years ago. He had a stroke. And anyways, he was just an enormously influential person, a very good person, not only in blended academia with lessons on personal character. So Clayton Christensen gone at 67, but just a lion of a man and a huge positive. I agree with you. I'm going to be writing my Times column on him tomorrow. Really?

On Clay? Indeed, of course. How could I not? He had so much impact on all the major figures in a good way. They need him around right now, but unfortunately, he got sick right when he needed to be there to talk about these issues. You know, there's Tom Peters. There's a bunch of them, but he's the towering influence and impact, I would say, on tech for sure.

My fail, I don't know what to think about it. I'm not even going to mention her name because she's getting mobbed on Twitter. Washington Post reporter had tweeted something about Kobe Bryant's history around this sexual assault. And I think she got suspended because she put up emails. She got so attacked for just even mentioning it. It was ill-timed. It was an ill-timed tweet. But because it was right after and, you know, people were mourning and then people went crazy on her. But she also put up emails of people who were attacking her, which I think she showed their identities and stuff like that.

So she was suspended at The Washington Post. But this whole issue of cancel culture, I don't know if you saw it, but Megan Kelly and Bill Maher talked about it this weekend. It was super in the news, and it's something I want to talk about next week a little bit because I think you talk about it a lot. I have different thoughts on it. But it certainly was apparent, things you cannot say. But that's like, honestly, when someone dies in some horrible, tragic way, people do have a moment, no matter what they did,

that they don't want you to do that. And so it's being made into this, why people hate the media. Look, that's not so it's being made into this, why people hate the media. Look, that's not really what's happening here. Anyway, I don't know if it's a win or fail, but I do want to think about this idea around cancel culture because when Bill Maher and Megyn Kelly talked about it, everyone attacked them, and it's like, we have to talk about this issue. And at the same time, all these people have enormous platforms,

and therefore when they use them, they get dinged for things they do that are mistakes or whatever. So I'd love to chat about that next week. Well, I'll give you a preview. I think one of the keys to happiness or an algorithm for happiness is to be rich and anonymous because there is the moment you – and I don't have the same level of fame as you, but as I draft off of your cat tails, get that? Not your coattails, your cat tails. I just thought of that. You're famous. Oh my God, that's good animal humor on the run. So, but I don't like, I like most of it, but there's definitely a cost. You definitely see people come after you. You definitely see virtue in going after people

who are, I don't want to call, you know, famous. And the thing about typically what's happened is we've decided that people deserve a moment of, we have a bias towards their best attributes when they're no longer around to defend themselves. And I hope that's a decorum we stick with. And when people pass away, we have a tendency to talk about the positive things. Anyway, I would like to talk about cancel culture with you next week, next episode. Yeah, I got to read up on it. Read up on it. It's very interesting. You got to be a pro at tweeting. I have warned so many well-known people. I'm like, you need to be a pro at this.

Yeah, but you used to be my role model on Twitter in the sense that I love how you clap back in people's faces. They say stupid thing and you'll just like get back in their face. I've stopped responding to negative tweets and occasionally I just like them because I find it just pisses me off. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to give them any oxygen. I enjoy it. I don't want to validate it. I cackle while I do things.

My favorite new one is thanks, dad. Thanks, dad. Thanks, Dad. Thanks, Dad. Thanks, Dad. Thanks, Dad. Okay, Scott, we're going to try something new that I know you'll like. We're calling it the Pop Culture Pickup. We have my good friend Brooke Hammerling on the line. She's been writing a very popular weekly pop culture roundup on Medium.

All right. Hi, Brooke. Hi, guys. Can you hear me? Yeah. Oh, you have a good radio voice, Brooke Hammerling. You do have a good radio voice. Not the first time I've heard that.

I'm just going to keep getting into it. So you have a popular— We're looking for a co-host. No, we're not. You know, Scott, don't try to keep me on edge because I will cut you. Let me just say, in any case, popular week— Oh, me? Yeah, I will.

Do you know how insecure in this relationship I am? Yes, I know. I am literally putting on makeup and short skirts every night for you when you come home. Here we are. All right. Well, Scott needs help. So what are the big moments? You guys talked a lot about pop culture.

I mean, believe it or not, it sort of incorporates into everything we do. And obviously the tragedy of Kobe and all of that. But it also was timed with the Grammys last night. Everybody sort of was on edge to see how they were going to cover it. And a lot of people actually thought the Grammys should be canceled. But it was hosted by Alicia Keys. Give us some background music. Hold on while I talk.

Because let me be honest with y'all. It's been a hell of a week. Damn. The social universe has, I think, anointed Alicia Keys the host of everything. I think that's sort of like what 2020 is, is Alicia Keys is going to host every award show. And the Grammys were really big. You know, Billie Eilish swept the Grammys. I don't know if you guys know who last was the artist to sweep that way.

All four major. Helen Reddy. Helen Reddy. What? I don't major... Helen Reddy. Helen Reddy. What? I don't even know who that is. Helen Reddy. I feel though... Iron woman, hear me roar.

Oh, yeah, of course, of course. To ignore. No, but the artist is somebody that I think Scott... That's your theme song. That shit is money. Brooke, you need new cultural editors. I know, seriously. You need to have old people on your thing.

I guess. Well, do you remember the song Sailing? Yes, of course. Christopher Crossan, who I booked for my 2000 party at the top of the rock. Exactly. What? He was the last person to sweep the Grammys in 1981. Oh, that was a good song.

Oh, that's an awesome one. Another question. Come on. Keep it going. Keep it going. Keep it going. Well, you guys, I know that Scott knows this because you partook in it. The crazy meme that took over.

Marijuana. Marijuana. No, wait. The crazy meme that took over. Marijuana! Marijuana! No, wait. I'm sorry. Edibles! I mean, drugs may have been a part of it, but the meme that took over everybody this week was the one where you posted pictures of yourself

and your Facebook and Instagram, LinkedIn and Tinder. And Scott, I saw your Tinder photo, which I'm sure a lot of people would have not swiped right on because it was Jeff Bezos. But that was... Do we know each other well enough that you mock me like that? That's friendship with Kara rubbing off on you. Jeff Bezos, not you.

I think it was Jeff Bezos in that snazzy Indian jacket. I am desperate for affirmation. What did you think of him? I don't even know what you call that, but I did it. So it's called the Dolly Parton Challenge, and it's because... Dolly did it. Okay, DP Challenge. DPC. DP means something else to me, but I did it. So it's called the Dolly Parton Challenge, and it's because of it. Okay, DP Challenge. DPC.

DP means something else to me, but I'll go with that. DPC. Dolly put it up. She posted these four pictures of herself, and it was actually this sort of call to action of feminism, where she told men to go, or whoever, told people to go and find themselves a woman that could be all four of those photos that she put. And one was the vixen, and one was the brilliant businesswoman and so forth. So that took over and everybody took their own take on the Dolly Parton challenge, including dogs.

So that was big. So Brooke, have you done one? You know what? I almost had my dog potato do one, but I refrained after another meme came out this past week with the guy, dude holding a sign, and he was holding a sign saying, your dog does not need its own Instagram. And I was very, I felt very, you know, very, very, very hurt by that. I do have one last question, though.

Potato is Brooke's dog who's more famous than any of us, really, on the internet. I just want to bring it back to, it wasn't this past week, but it was a couple weeks ago, and it was a huge, iconic moment in pop culture. But do you know which celebrity released a candle that smells like her vagina? Maybe I can give you a four. It was between Martha Stewart or Gwyneth Paltrow or Meghan Markle or, I don't know, Oprah Winfrey? I thought it was someone else. Oh, my God. That's an easy one. Whose was it? Gwyneth Paltrow or Meghan Markle or, I don't know, Oprah Winfrey? I thought it was someone else. Oh, my God.

That's an easy one. Who's was it? Gwyneth Paltrow, obviously. I'm embarrassed to know that. Gwyneth Paltrow. Well, first off, I thought it was Chrissy Teigen, but wasn't it? No, it could have been. Isn't it the whole Goof thing?

It was Gwyneth Paltrow, yeah. And apparently her candle smells delightful. Oh, my God. Oh, God. This is one of those moments where I just say to myself, don't say anything. Don't say anything. I got you one for your birthday, Scott. Brooke, where can we find more of your work? Wow, this stuff's cool. Where do we go? Follow me on Medium. I'm doing it on Medium because they give me the opportunity to edit

throughout the day, and I make a lot of mistakes. So I have to be able to edit. Yeah, it's great. And watch it because they're helping me figure out my product a little bit better. It's great. Yeah. Newsletters are a really interesting business. Maybe we'll talk about that next week, Scott. Anyway, Scott, always a pleasure.

We'll be back on Thursday. Yeah, Kara, get better. By the way, disruptive innovation, urgent care. The healthcare industry is ignoring urgent care. It's cheap. It's going after small, unattractive part of the market. City MD in New York. It was fantastic.

They do a great job, right? Great job. Great job. I found out he did not have strep. Great. I felt much better after going. It was an amazing experience. We will talk about it next week, too.

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you're feeling better. You should definitely do that Dolly Parton challenge thing. It's the exact same photo of me with my arms crossed and my sunglasses. Well, even that's funny, but better. You should definitely do that Dolly Parton challenge thing. I think either- It's the exact same photo of me with my arms crossed and my sunglasses. Well, even that's funny, but you should do it. I will do that. Be part of pop culture, end up on the Medium blog for the broke eyes.

I may do all Scott Galloway pictures. Anyway, we'll be back- I already did mine. It's really good. All right. I'm going to look at it. I'm going to look at it. I'm going to do mine today. Okay. Because I'll be super late, like the ice bucket challenge. Anyway, we'll be back on Friday to talk about a lot of stuff, including predictions, and there are tech earnings, so much to discuss. and then we need to admit more people of color in film school to start to attack the problem. And he immediately updated my thinking, corrected me, whatever you want to call it on Twitter. He said there's actually just as many women in film school as men.

So that doesn't explain it. It doesn't explain it. Anyways, I just wanted to shout out that I obviously got that wrong, and I appreciate that he corrected me with data. He's coming. We're hoping to have him atode talking about data around movies and stuff like that. It's going to be really great. He's a great guy. You'll love him. He's a really smart guy.

Scott, that's really nice that you said you had something to learn. You're a learning organism. I'm a sponge. You're a sponge. I'm a sponge. Remember, we love your questions. If you have a question about a story you're hearing in the news, email us at pivot at voxmedia.com to be featured on the show. Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis. Eric Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Thanks also to Rebecca Castro and Drew Burrows.

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