Pivot - MAGA's Epstein Civil War, SpaceX's xAI investment, and Trump's Rosie Threat

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Kara and Scott unpack the MAGA civil war erupting over how the Trump administration is handling the Epstein files. Then, Trump continues to go tariff-wild, now threatening Russia, the EU, Mexico and more, and he's also reigniting his longtime feud with Rosie O'Donnell. Plus, Elon blurs lines between businesses with SpaceX investing in xAI, and Google makes a new AI acqui-hire in the latest Big Tech talent grab. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠. Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠ Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at ⁠⁠nymag.com/pivot⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And Donald Trump is definitely on that list, that abstain list. But are you? I think I'm one of the few people that's not. I feel- I know, I was surprised. It's, first off, we have to start, we have to change.

Rosie O'Donnell should legally change her name to Rosie Epstein. Yeah. I have never seen a lamer attempt to distract people from what is going on. And by the way, I just want to acknowledge, I thought this was going to be old news and blow over. You were right on this.

Thank you. I was thinking about it. I thought this was gonna be old news and blow over. You were right on this. Thank you. I was thinking about it. I was saying last night to a friend, I went, last week I was in Ibiza. Ibiza. On the most perfect night.

Yeah. At Calvin Harris, you know, I like the like the Pop 40 DJs concert. Okay, uh-huh. I had taken X for the first time in 30 years. What? Oh my God, I like me so much on X, Kara. Did you think about hugging me?

Did you think about me? I'm trying to think. You were not front of mind to me when I was on Molly. And I'm like, music sounds amazing. It was a perfect night and people were coming up to me and telling me how much they love my work and how important my work is. And I'm like, you know, with my pupils,

they'll look like frying pans. And that was like one of the best nights much they love my work and how important my work is. I'm like, you know, with my pupils, they'll look like frying pans. And that was like one of the best nights I've had in such a long time. And I thought, would I rather have that again, or just to be sitting back in my hot girl summer watching Republicans eat themselves alive over this?

Yeah. I got to be honest, I am so here for this. I think it's fucking amazing. I agree. Thank you for acknowledging that. I actually, Amanda had the same, you know, a lot of people thought it was distraction. And I'm like, no, no, this is at the heart of what he's he has, and I'm gonna make this point. He has trained them into QAnon, right? They're gonna regret the training into QAnon, which was useful when it was useful. But these people really truly believe this.

And I've spent a lot of time on these networks, so I know it. Like when there's like, oh, it's no big deal, I'm like, no, no, this is like, I don't know, in a religion, what's the center of it? It's at the center of this thing. And the pedophile thing is particularly resonant with them. They absolutely believe Hillary Clinton had a basement. They absolutely, some of them do. They absolutely believe that there's a cabal that killed Jeffrey Epstein, etc.

So it's one of the structures of his presidency in a weird way. You couldn't believe it. I don't believe it, but it's true. But it's so intellectually or morally inconsistent. It's like, if that, if Jeffrey Epstein had invited a bunch of migrant workers to his island, we would have nuked it. But as long as it was just pedophiles, and this, this notion that we're shocked that a man found liable of sexual abuse, which is rape, might be on a list of a powerful man inviting people down to an island with underage women.

Like that's supposed to be a big shocker. Yeah, well, actually, let's get to this thing because it's really important. We have other things we're going to talk about, like tariffs and how Elon is planning the lines between his businesses. Another thing I think I got right there. But just so you know, where Donald Trump is now,

he's doing the wrong thing in dealing with them. 100%. When he put that thing out, I was like, no, no, no, no, sir. You have to be with them. Even if you're not with them, you have to be with them. He says he doesn't like what's happening to his MAGA boys and gals. He's urging them not to waste time on Jeffrey Epstein,

keeps saying he's dead. He has been throwing support behind Pam Bondi in a true social post. And also, he was at some soccer thing where everybody booed him and he was he clapped at her or he put his hand up, like his thumb up. But this civil war, let me just give people the idea, is really quite something. Many are demanding that Bondi,

who they're calling Blondie, which is funny, be fired over this memo that found no evidence of a client list or Epstein being murdered. She's been very explicit about this. The Epstein investigation led to the White House confrontation between blondie and FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino, who's been pretty vocal about Epstein cover-up claims in years. He made his career, he made his podcast career. That was one of the structures of his podcast career.

He didn't show up work last Friday. There were rumors, of course, he was leaking all over the place, clearly, that he's insisting, but the administration says he's still on the job. I suspect he'll fall into line because that's the kind of guy he is, but who knows. But one of the things that's interesting is the various factionalism, and I'll go through this very quickly. Fox News is calling this a ticking time boggitman. Megyn Kelly, never not to weigh in on something

grotesque, said over the weekend this could actually cost Trump the midterms. She's against Bondi, I guess. Bannon's against Bondi. I guess Elon's against Bondi. Charlie Kirk's against Bondi. Laura Loomer. Anyway, it's really quite something. It's like a weird little civil war. Now, I think they're going to fall into line now because I think he's going to put the kibosh on weird little civil war. Now I think they're gonna fall into line now because I think he's gonna put the kibosh on it behind the scenes, but I don't know.

What do you think? What do you imagine? Well, just around perception, I mean, first off, it doesn't even seem that they're that upset about pedophilia. They're that upset about not pursuing a conspiracy theory. And the thing that strikes me is that if someone had counseled him on how to appear to be more guilty, it would have been difficult.

Right. He immediately gets defensive and says, I can't believe you're not focusing on the tragedy of Texas. Or I'm thinking of canceling Rosie O'Donnell's citizen. It's he could not be acting more guilty. And whoever is coaching him is like, no, don't bring it up. Say, you know, he could have said, this is an important case and the FBI, it's up to the FBI how they wanna handle this.

Right, except that he's made his career on it. That is the thing. He was very much, which is almost suicidal because he's been photographed with him like 67 times. There's videos of him like dancing with his, you know, white man dancing together. He's clearly been down there. He's on the logs. The only thing I would say is I know a lot of people who went down there, by the way. And I've told you, I was invited to his house once and I declined because he's a sexual predator, which I told the PR person. I'm like, no, I'm not going to a sexual predator's house.

But one of the things that is interesting is a lot of people who went down there, I don't believe necessarily went for sex. I think it was interesting. He was an interesting guy. It was kind of sexy. Like to a lot of these- He was giving a ton of money away? He was giving a ton of money away.

Even Bill Gates, I think he was bored. I don't know what happened with Bill Gates, but I'm just saying there was a ton of money away. Even Bill Gates, I think he was bored. I don't know what happened with Bill Gates, but I'm just saying, there was a lot of what was really interesting to me, and Melinda Gates talked about this thing. I was not happy with his affiliation. I think it was Sergey Brin. He and his wife were invited down.

They went down and the minute they got off the plane, his wife Anne knew what was up and was like, we're getting the fuck out of here, kind of thing.. And so I think a lot of people went for these things for curiosity, sort of the same way they went to the diddy parties, I guess. And some of the people went for full on, you know, abuse of minors. It's weird, but the fact that they didn't know the people

who went that weren't necessarily doing that is grotesque too in a lot of ways. but the fact that they didn't know the people who went that weren't necessarily doing that is grotesque too, in a lot of ways. So it's always the cover-up, not the scandal. And he's handling this exactly incorrectly because all of a sudden he's created a massive cover-up of his own manufacturing and all of his, just watching them eat their own tail of conspiracy theory

when it comes home for you. But let's just, you have a situation. Okay. I'm in St. Bart's and a Microsoft billionaire invites me on their yacht. And I go on the yacht, a lot of hot people, great party. I go, I have a good time. I leave.

What if it ends up there were underage women on that boat? Did I do my due diligence? It was like, I went on this boat. I won't even say who it is, but it wasn't the top, it wasn't the founder of Microsoft, it was one of the founders. I, yeah, but I didn't do diligence around the personal behavior of this guy or whether he'd been convicted of anything or whether there were underage women on the boat, I just went cause it sounded like a really good time.

Now, if, if, and I think there were a lot of people, quite frankly, just caught up in the strafe here, there are a lot of people, quite frankly, just caught up in the strafe here. There are a lot of people who should, who deserve scrutiny and to have the reputation ruined or to have legal ramifications. But I think there were probably a shit ton of people like, oh, it's a rich guy who throws great parties. And yeah, and he's, he wants to give me a ride to Boston on his plane.

He gave a lot of people rides on his plane. I can absolutely see how people get caught up. The only thing is, it was before he was convicted, there was a lot of rumors about it, I knew them, because he was a lot of tech events. And after, I think you have less of an excuse, after when it was- After Florida convicted him. Many people knew about that.

But do you think every powerful person has an obligation to conduct a background check on everyone they spend time with? No, it's just, it's a world that I think people aren't familiar with and I think you and I are a little bit. I'm sort of more peripherally, you go to more of those abysses and things like that. But there is a, like, there is a, like a world

where they all sort of, you know, swan around, just like Jeff Bezos' wedding. There's a world like that. And one of the things about Epstein, like I was at a dinner he was at with 200 people, and I got attacked by the anti-Epstein forces. Like you were part of that. I'm like literally, I never even met him. Like I was near him. I guess there was a photo where I was vaguely adjacent to him,

but I didn't talk to him or anything else. And it was, so it was really really some of that happened a lot. He was at like 10 things as I recall. I think that's where I was where he was. Um, but what was interesting is people that actually then took the next step after his conviction. I'm always like bad, very bad judgment on your part to do so. But if he had said, in my younger days, I love to have a good time.

I love to be at great parties. This guy seemed like, let's be honest, he was a guy who loved to have a good time. He was giving money away. He invited me to his island. I went, I had a great time. I didn't engage in pedophilia. I didn't have sex with underage minors, but I went.

It was a terrible error in judgment. And I apologize if he just said that. But the fact that he's trying so hard to create weapons of mass distraction gives people an understandable suspicion that he did more than just go to the fucking island. And that it's always the cover up. It's not the scandal itself. Talk a little bit about the, I think his misjudging of the depth of this mania on the right over this issue. I didn't see it. Did you see this? I did not see this coming.

I told you. I said, this is not a distraction. This is going to blow up because I've listened to these people and I've seen all the online stuff and they really are like rabbit around this. Look at what happened to Roseanne Barr. Look at what happened to, like there's a lot of people who became insane over this topic, like a lot, like a ton. And even the average person who isn't, right? I've noticed a lot of people putting up like, well, I wasn't into the Epstein conspiracies, but now I am. You know what I mean? Like regular people are now like, what was he doing there? And so he's dragging in reasonable people, I guess, who would mostly just say, ah, this is just ridiculous. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Yeah, I find the whole thing a lesson in karma

when you foment a conspiracy theory, and then they came for me. This is the ultimate example of that, right? What do you think's gonna happen next? Every time I think that Republicans are going to stand up for not having Medicaid stripped away from the people who elected them, or that someone who's convicted by a jury of his peers,

including Republicans on that, of all 34 counts, whatever it is, I think this is the final straw, or I get hopeful that Lisa Murkowski or Susan Collins actually pretend to care. I think you're right. I think they're all gonna eventually fall in line. I think they're all gonna wring their hands.

The only thing is Pam Bondi, I'm curious, she might be the blood offering here. No, no, I think Dan Bongino is. I think he can't give into this. He can't. Like he might, that's the thing, because he's so desperate for attention and love from these people. That's the only thing he could do is give Bondi up in that regard. By the way, she's terrible, but you know, like is it like a list?

We want to stack rank the idiots. I think what it shows is how quickly this is all going to devolve when Donald Trump is out of the picture. I think this is their, I think this, we are seeing their ass right now. And when you say devolve, what do you mean? Meaning they don't, none of them, they're so different. Like there was always a problem with the left and the center in politics. There is that, right? There's the centrist people, who thinks the left is too left. There's the left who thinks the centrist don't understand that, you know, someone like Mondomni is the future. That is normal, right? That is a normal political party, like the Tea Party and the more institutionalists in the former Republican Party.

But this group, they are so on opposite sides of everything, and not just opposite sides. People who are on the same side on one thing are on opposite sides on the other stuff. And so the fracturing of this Republican party that Trump has built, once he is gone in some fashion, is going to be spectacular. Because you think JD fucking Vance is gonna hold this together?

You think Don Jr.? You know, no, none of these people have the power of Trump to hold this stuff together. And even he is showing signs of not being able to, whether it's age or misjudgment or something like that. But I just think it's going to be a spectacular. You're seeing the signs of what's going to happen next. I mean, I think you are. Anyway, speaking of a mess, Tariff Palooza is continuing. He's saying the US will impose very severe tariffs on Russia if there's no peace deal with Ukraine in the next 50 days. I'm sure

Putin is quaking in his boots. He's also threatened to hit EU and Mexico, two of America's largest trading partners, with 30% tariffs starting August 1st. And Canada also back in the crosshairs. In a letter to Prime Minister Mark Carney. Trump said Canadian goods would face 35% tariffs starting next month. Trump cited concerns about fentanyl coming across the border again as a justification. The ones from Brazil were because he didn't like a case against Bolsonaro. Talk a little bit about the Russian plan. I mean, this just keeps going.

And the markets have not gotten yippy as before. Some people, including Jamie Dimon and others, think it's a problem that the markets aren't paying attention to this. So thoughts? I think literally, like I said, the market just continues to yawn. None of these things have come through.

He always backs down. The market seems to be rerouting around it. The companies that are driving the NASDAQ and the S&P through, he always backs down, the market seems to be re-rooting around it, the companies that are driving the NASDAQ and the S&P are essentially global companies now that don't appear to be subject to these tariffs, right? AI and Meta and Microsoft to a certain extent so far. Well, except for copper. The 50% tariff on copper, which including defense, electricity, and tech,

U.S. imports over 40% of its copper and switching to domestic supplies could take up to a decade. Industry groups are warning. They could slow AI data center growth. They have an event tomorrow in Pennsylvania, a $70 billion investment. And then Peter Thiel calls JD Vance and says, you're about to shut down AI. In the moment, There's a whiff that this is going to threaten AI in the seven stocks that responsible for 38% of the S and P check down 20% and there's panic buying it. He listens to the markets and he listens to a small group of people, including Jamie diamond, I think, and I think it's just going to back down.

I think he's playing poker with a weekend and keeps hoping the other folks around the table are going to fold and I mean, just in terms of what's nonsensical, Canada, arguably our closest ally, largest undefended border in the world. Housing is a real issue in America. Young people are really angry because the percentage of first time home buyers is at an all time low. The entrants have, are paying for the price of the

incumbents weaponizing zoning such that they can increase or decrease the supply of new houses. And you want to talk about taking inflation up. What are the two primary inputs for a new house or two of them? Canadian lumber and Mexican drywall gypsum. You want to make things worse. You want to start talking about panic buying before the tariffs that creates inflation. The first uptick in an inflation number here, I just think they have to fold. And what happens if inflation really starts to spike

and Chairman Powell, who has his own ego, says, you know what, we're contemplating raising interest rates. Well, Trump has the crosshairs on him too, but he can only crosshairs so many people. Yeah, but he doesn't crosshairs so many people. Yeah, but he doesn't care. He's in there for, he's in there at least for the shirk.

I just think the markets, the adult in the room in the cabinet is not a DUI hire to head the defense secretary. It's not, it's not an acolyte to basically pervert our justice system, our attorney general. The adult in the room here is our attorney general, the adult in the room here is the bond market, the 10 year and to a lesser extent, the equity markets. And they will absolutely respond.

If these tariffs actually become a reality, you're going to see the markets. I mean, my cohost at ProfGMarketsets said what's interesting is that when these things clearly weren't going to happen, the markets kind of freaked out and now the markets have gotten used to them and aren't freaking out. And he wonders that, okay, maybe Trump is so angry he's not being taken seriously that he'll actually go through with a couple of these things. But what is so insane and so stupid about these threats is the following. And that is trade agreements take 18 months minimum just to hammer out.

Not 90 in 90 days, what? And then they take four years to implement because just the logistics of trying to track this stuff and figuring out the regulatory bodies that will do it and the payments and the notion that he just sets this goal. And this is why business people shouldn't be president. He just doesn't understand how government works.

He's also playing, he played it being a businessman, I'm sorry. business people shouldn't be president. He just doesn't understand how government works. He's also playing, he played at being a businessman. I'm sorry. Just like he was a laughable businessman. I agree. And the thing he doesn't, the thing, the overarching construct of philosophy that he doesn't understand about global trade and geopolitics

is that the most, in my opinion, the most visionary move in geopolitics is that the most, in my opinion, the most visionary move in geopolitical history was when after defeating an army that had put people in concentration camps, had murdered our soldiers, violated genomic conventions, that was the Japanese, had brutalized tens of millions of people across Europe. We defeated them and what did we decide to do? We decided to borrow a shit ton of money and rebuild their nations.

Recognizing that if we could create prosperity overseas, it would be of massive benefit domestically. That was the most visionary thing I believe ever done geopolitically. And what that set off was a recognition that global trade and prosperity are not a zero sum game. It's not a win lose game that when Vietnam does really well, they not only export those Nikes, they start importing them and buying them.

You know, it was interesting. There was a story, one, everyone's writing the story, which we've talked about for months now, which is that suddenly all these other partners are getting together across Europe with China, Europe with, we talked about this early, but they're suddenly running. The second thing is a lot of the people here who are here legally are sending all their money back to their countries now and not spending it here, which is interesting.

Before the outflow of capital from immigrants here, who are here legally, is huge, is like gained because they don't feel that this is the place to put down roots or, you know, or long term. And I have to tell you, I've heard from so many people about nervousness of leaving, a lot of students leaving this country and maybe not wanting to stay. Like before they would have, at US would have been the place they would have stayed and brought their incredible talents. Now they're like, I think I'm going back. I think I'm going back kind of thing, which I never heard from these people before, these kinds of people. TG The analogy I use is that what if one MBA team got the number one, they got the number one through number one million draft picks.

Every other team, their first pick for their team was the millionth and first draft pick. We get the top million. We get the top people around the world. We get the most elite of the elite. What do the, what do the smartest people in Scotland all have in common? They left and the majority that left came to America. And World War II, the most elite scientists, including the guy who figured out relativity,

decided to come to America because they didn't like the environment in Europe that was emerging. And now we have thousands of scientists applying for intellectual asylum in France. I mean, literally, I want to go RFK, scientists can get on the plane. They get on the plane. That's right.

And who did, what did these European scientists who saw an emerging fascism and inhospitable environment, what did they bring to the US? They brought our ability to land on the moon. They brought not Nazis, but people who fled the Nazi regime. They brought chemotherapy. They brought quantum computing. Oh, and by the way, they brought the bomb, folks, and had the bomb had the scientists who understood how to split the atom stayed in, stayed in, stayed in Vienna or in Austria. I mean, the war could have ended much differently. And instead what we've decided,

let's take the most elite human capital in the world and let's encourage them to go back, go abroad. Anyway, it is- It's ridiculous. It's again, the biggest own goals of the last 20 years have been the unnecessary invasion of Iraq and Brexit. This could be bigger economically than all of those things. I would agree, but the problem, the only problem is he is still in this, in our innards ripping everything out.

All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Google makes a major AI deal and SpaceX invests in XAI. Support for this show comes from COoda, powered by Grammarly. We love seeing our team come together to make this show happen. I mean, Scott has like seven podcasts on the network, so it's nice that he still works with us. But the difficult part is trying to keep track of all the information, data and projects we're working on across dozens of platforms, products and tools. If that sounds like a familiar struggle, you might want to check out Coda, the all-in-one

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now and get six free months of the team plan for startups for free. That's coda.io slash pivot and get six months of the team plan for free. coda.io slash pivot. Support for pivot comes from Framer. It's a big moment when any business owner gets to hit publish on their website. It's how your company can finally get recognized all around the globe. But if you end up making a simple cut and paste web page, you've just jumped into the deep end of the ocean without a life raft.

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for first three months only. Speeds may be slower, above 35 gigabytes on unlimited planned taxes and fees. Extra seem inable for details. Scott, we're back. The AI talent war is escalating still. Google just hired the CEO and co-founder of Windsurf, an AI coding startup along with several of the company's employees.

Under the $2.4 billion deal, Google also gets some non-exclusive licenses, some of Windsurf's technology. The startup will still operate independently, but without those key employees, the move comes after a $3 billion deal between Windsurf and OpenAI fell apart. Windsurf's founders were reportedly wary of sharing Intel with Microsoft. It's the latest setback for OpenAI which has been losing talented rivals like Meta in recent weeks. First of all, this seems getting to be a little insane.

The second thing is, it feels like everyone's running, trying to get to the borders. Pick someone, get all the people they can, and pick up the land grab in terms of people. They're also doing non-deal deals where they're trying to be cute with the government. We're not buying this company, we're just buying everything that matters and gutting them.

Related, SpaceX reportedly invest $2 billion in XAI and that's not all. Elon Musk says that Tesla shareholders revoke on whether to invest in XAI. Let's listen to what I said about this back in April. It looks like he's not interested in making cars anymore, or he's making other things. He wants to shift Tesla. I think it would emerge XAI, X and this together in a big.

And Tesla. Yeah. So now SpaceX too. He's making a turduck in here. He said in a post on X that he does not support a merger of Tesla and XAI, but who knows what he's saying. By the way, he also said that Grok will be available in Tesla vehicles. After the launch of Grok, four users have discovered the model seems to refer to

Musk's opinion also through news articles and X-posts when answering questions. So it's mostly Musk stuff that they're borrowing from the LLM is. Anyway, talk a little bit about this. Well, the more interesting one I think is these Aqua hires. And that is some VCs have become, it's become so difficult to find Alpha or the outsized returns because so many VC firms have raised a ton of money.

There's just more capital now chasing fewer good deals. That some of them have gone really downstream and are actually incubating and starting companies themselves and then spinning them out. You know, that was kind of what essentially Sam Altman's Y Combinator was doing. And I think what you're gonna see is a lot of, if I were a venture capital, a young venture capital partner, I'd be calling, I would try and find 12 really bright AI researchers and a couple managers at various companies and say, get together.

I'm your first 50 million in, find, determine a very small slice of the AI world to focus on. And if we can build 12, 20, 50, a hundred really talented AI people and the focus on your research is important, but it's not profound. But essentially what's happening here is that if you're an HR manager or recruiter, and you can pull together a couple dozen really well respected AI executives who can show an ability to work together and build shit. The marketplace is so frothy and there's so much cheap stock that within 12 to 36 months,

someone might show up and pay a billion dollars for those 24 professionals. For 2.4 to rent you, to rent you. Yeah, or figure out a way not to raise the antennae of the DOJ or FTC and do some sort of crazy license that gives you money. But it's gotta be a great time to be an AI researcher with any credibility anywhere. If you are a really talented young partner to VC, you identify 300 talented AI, engineers, researchers, executives, product managers, you call them and say, come start a company. You got 50 million within 24 months. engineers, researchers, executives, product managers. You call them and say, come start a company.

You got 50 million within 24 months, we're gonna be Aqua hired at one to 3 billion. Because these companies, I'm not even sure that the, the technology, no one talks about the technology or the company or the brand or the customers they have. They're just the war on talent here and the cheap capital chasing this talent has created alpha, if you will.

So, do you think it's gonna get past the government? Not for too long, I don't know. Under this administration, yeah. Although inflection certainly did. Remember, Microsoft got that one. But the FTC and the DOJ are mostly now about what- Bothering media companies. Who and what is giving money or bother to

or bothering Trump. Or woke media companies, that and what is giving money or bother to or bothering Trump. Woke media companies, that seems to be their focus. I think these things, these guys have been so savvy, weaponizing government and giving money to the right people, that I would imagine an acquirer. I was part of an acquit kill. Really? They bought you and killed you? Yeah. I always feel like I have a pretty good instinct for

business. And when my company L2 was acquired, um, I couldn't figure out what they were doing. I gave them a list of the most valuable people at the company, pretty much all of them left. Every decision they made, it was like that episode of Seinfeld where George Costanza decides to do everything entirely the opposite. Everything they did was entirely the opposite.

I'm not exaggerating. I did a call weekly with my quote unquote boss, which was hilarious. A group of people dramatically less talented than me that just showed up and talked big thoughts. Wouldn't you like to get that time back? And they literally told me, don't do anything. Don't do anything.

We don't want you doing anything. And I left, I hated it so much, I left several million dollars on the table and my partner used to say to me, I said, I can't handle this, I gotta get out of here. And she'd say, how much money to get if you just go in for five more mornings? And I would do the math and she'd go,

so you don't wanna just go in for five more mornings? Oh, right, yeah. And she would do that to me every week. Anyways, finally I said, I'm outta here. There's a point where you can't anymore. I have had that job. I've like, no, I can't. I would say things like, I think there's an interesting opportunity to go after Latin American

CPG companies and I want to hire two people and start doing research there. And they're like, well, hold off on that. I mean, and I now have to come to the conclusion that we were threatening them and they thought, we'll take a competitor off the market. We'll milk them for their cash flow. We won't make take a competitor off the market. We'll milk them for their cashflow. We won't make any new investments in the company.

And this guy doesn't have a good idea in his head. And then a potential competitor is gone. And this company has, as I look back on it, has acquired a bunch of companies in verticals that were threatening their mothership. That's no way to create a company by the way. That's not. Company's done this company to their credit. This company has no way to create a company, by the way. That's not. This company's done, to their credit,

this company's done really well from a shareholder standpoint. Oh, really? Okay. All right, well, I still think it's non-creative and awful not using Scott Galloway's God-given talent. That's right. That's right. That's right.

Sell more shit. The internet. Sell more shit on the internet. Facebook's evil. Sell more shit. What do you think of my correct prediction once again about this doing more of the integrating with this company with all this stuff,

even if he says they're not merging, they're kind of, it's kind of the same thing, right? It doesn't really matter if they merge or not because they're interwoven in such a way that they're impossible to pull apart. Well, first off, so everyone says Twitter's now worth $33 billion. Not really. He got his other company to invest at a mark on that company to give it a $33 billion cap.

He's essentially figuring out that, okay, I've got some really amazing assets and I've got some shitty assets and I'm going to conglomerate to prop up my shitty assets which are overvalued, specifically Tesla and a little bit Twitter. And he is a visionary. He wants to bring all these things together with AI at the heart, with Twitter providing all of the data set, with, I don't know, SpaceX and satellites

giving better guidance and autonomous driving capability and his Tesla cars gathering more information and turn it into just kind of one big AI driven company with distribution around cars, rockets, satellites, media. I mean, you can see this becoming kind of like StarNet, right? And he is a visionary. Having said this, and this is unrelated, but I think important. If I were the FTC of the DOJ, in my view, the most dangerous monopoly in the world right now is SpaceX. 60% of low earth orbit satellites are owned by one company.

That is not, that, that is not acceptable. This is a, this is one private company who is run by someone who is reportedly a drug addict can turn off and on battlefield technology that might shape the future of Europe and democracy. Okay, it's bad that Metta has too much control over the ad market. SpaceX is the most dangerous monopoly in the world right now.

And they have, do you realize 87% of space launches weren't from America? They weren't from NASA. They were from one company, SpaceX. That is an enormous security risk. Well, speaking of that, of course, he's getting protected by people. Texas governor Greg Abbott doesn't want to reveal

his and his staff's communication with Elon Musk and his representatives from these companies. ProPublica's Texas newsroom requested the emails and Abbott's public information coordinator argued they should not be released, in part because they include, quote, intimate and embarrassing information. I want to, I mean, how much more embarrassing can this guy be in public?

I don't know. He's sort of speaking of showing your ass all the time. This is what he does. Interestingly, you know, he constantly is making a mess. So it'll be interesting to see who steps forward. There's certainly not going to be Greg Abbott, who's such a toad, but who could make that happen? Like make that, obviously other companies or- When you say make that happen,

you mean a breakup of SpaceX? Not the breakup of SpaceX, but like the government has more leverage on them. I mean, obviously more competitors would be one way, but certainly not. People like Greg Abbott will protect him. Well, no, the DOJ and FTC and an attorney general, they do their fucking jobs.

They're focused on the long-term. She's busy with that. The long-term well-being material and economic well-being of American citizens. But what I took from the the Epstein thing and what you just said about Governor Greg Abbott's reticence to like, I believe that pretty much almost every piece of information, unless it's just scurrilous, intimate information on someone's

private life, that's for nothing but clicks. Why were they talking about that? What this all comes down to is I believe that the basic, the, this fidelity, this passion, this irreverence for anonymity, I think has become dangerous. And what do you, and you brought this up, what do storm troopers, the KKK and ICE have in common, or people on campus not allowing Jews into certain parts of UCLA public spaces, they're all wearing fucking

masks. And what I see online is this ridiculous fidelity to anonymity has resulted in troll farms that are tearing society apart or letting people behave in a way they would never behave in person. But now they're doing it in person. I mean, those ICE people should not have to, I'm sorry if their jobs are hard, they picked a job.

This is the life they've chosen. What has been the most accretive positive thing among law enforcement in America? I would argue that it is the following, body cams. If you're a cop and you run up against somebody who's mentally ill and treating you like shit, I can't imagine how tempting it is to just punch them in the fucking face and put cuffs on them. I can empathize with that, but because they have a body cam on them and their badge number and their identification on their vest, they behave in a manner that is incredibly honorable and shows fidelity to the law.

And some of them still don't, despite the body cams. I think our men and women in blue are, given the situations they are thrust into every day, remarkable and show a lot more patience than your average citizen. That was a reversal in anonymity. They not only don't have masks, it's like if you're day, remarkable and show a lot more patience than your average citizen. That was a reversal in anonymity. They not only don't have masks. It's like, if you're a cop and you're going to use the full, you're going to use

the full weight of the federal government and laws where you can deploy lethal power and incarceration against citizens, then we need to know exactly who the fuck you are and record it in 4D color. And when you let people put on masks, you're going the opposite way. There's gonna be a decline in civility and fidelity to the law. Because you just get this rah rah speech

that the president said it's okay, go in there. And if there's a 13 year old screaming, no, my mother is a citizen, or you might not put your head, you might not put your knee on the head of a woman working at Home Depot because people can actually see your face. That's a good thing. And I have, and I have argued for this. I don't believe, I believe social media and these platforms should force identification. You could still have accounts that are anonymous.

should force identification. You could still have accounts that are anonymous. If there's a person who needs an account to talk about women's rights and wherever the golf, you could figure out pretty easily, is this person using an anonymous account because they're in real danger? Are they doing it just under just a tear at the fabric of society or let people engage in depraved behavior? But anonymity, in my opinion, is one of the most in our fidelity and our miss, our miss are conflating the first amendment with anonymity is one of the

most damaging things in our society. It's it goes back to the Epstein list. Let it out. Let it out. Scott and Carol release the Epstein list. We are with Roseanne Barr on this one. At the same time, Democrats have to put away this bullshit purity test on everything. People are human.

And if someone ended up on a plane going to an island, a party, and there's no evidence that they engaged in anything, then it's like, okay, forgive them. Yeah, they had poor judgment. They didn't, but release, for God's sakes, release the list and Governor Greb-Agg, everything that happens at a level of governor or Senate. What do you think is embarrassing?

What do you think's in there? What's intimate and embarrassing? They're probably saying, give me money and I'll make sure. Trump fucking sucks. That's more than embarrassing. They're saying intimate and embarrassing. It was a weird choice of words, right?

Intimate and embarrassing. The Nixon tapes eventually. Brass eyes? The Nixon tapes eventually got released. Yeah, everything should get released. I agree. People should be able, you said something I always thought was really powerful.

People should be able to have secrets. And that is if it's just people's private lives, okay, I don't think you have, people have a right to publish everything. I do believe in privacy. I do believe that people should be able to have secrets. But when it comes to national security, government regulation,

conversations among our elected representatives, I believe that for defense reasons, that people should be able to have secrets. But when it comes to national security, government regulation, conversations among our elected representatives, I believe that for defense reasons, you can say it needs to be sealed for a certain amount of time, but eventually, be clear folks, it's all gonna come out. And what's gonna happen to their behavior? It's gonna improve.

Well, you know, it's interesting I'm seeing online, a lot of people, when these ICE people go in, now sort of normal people, they were bothering a janitor, and all these doctors and nurses were like, get the fuck out of here or show your face. Like this guy was, and they're like, and the cop, which was not getting beaten up in any way

because the video showed it, was like, you're assaulting an officer. And she's like, I am not, I am not doing that. Take off your mask. Like you're seeing a lot of people personally offended by it. And it's not the American way to hide your face. I think that's been really mask. You're seeing a lot of people personally offended by it, and it's not the American way to hide your face. I think that's been really inspiring.

You know what? In the Superman movie, the bad guys are hiding their fucking faces all the time, and not Superman, because he's a very handsome man. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break, and we come back. Elon Musk and Don Lemon go to court. Don Limon. Limon. Upwork is a hiring platform designed for the modern playbook. You can find, hire, and pay expert freelancers who can deliver results from day one. Perfect for businesses on tight budgets, fast timelines, and zero room for error. There are no subscriptions and no upfront fees, and you only pay when you hire. Posting a job is fast, free, and simple. If you've never tried Upwork, now is the perfect time.

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It won't take long to tell you Neutrals ingredients. It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients. Vodka, soda, natural flavours. So, what should we talk about? No sugar added? Neutral. Refreshingly simple. Scott, we're back with more news. This is just a quick thing. Don Lemon's lawsuit against Elon Musk and X over the cancellation of their partnership will go to trial.

Musk's team had tried to convince a judge to strike the complaint. San Francisco judge ruled that Lemon credibly alleged Musk had committed fraud by false promise. He'll probably win. Elon still won't pay him. As a reminder, Lemon filed the suit after X canceled his partnership a few hours after he taped a contentious interview with Musk. I don't know if Donald will win this one, but it's good that he gets to go forward. We'll see some interesting emails with Linda Iaccarino and stuff. I hope he gets his money.

I hope they all at X, there's a whole bunch of people from Twitter who haven't gotten their money. They all should get their fucking money, Elon, give them their money. Even if you don't like them, give them their money. So we'll see, he probably won't. I love Don Lemon.

I like the fact that he, I think, got fired from CNN and got fired from Twitter. And I think he's one of these people that's doing really good work. If you follow him on his Lemon Drops podcast, what I appreciate about Don, I also appreciate about Megan, even though I don't agree with their politics, it's clear they work really fucking hard. And I really appreciate people who've achieved a certain level of celebrity status and probably economic security and just show up and work really hard.

And I like, I think he's fearless. I'm a huge fan of these new niche media companies. I just, I like them. I'm rooting for them. And so I hope I, this is what happened. He's going to take them to court. I have, my guess is, must attorneys are gonna go, we'll fight and intimidate and try to embarrass him, but legally we don't have a leg to stand on. And when they realize he's not backing down, they'll settle with him. And I hope he gets a big check

because it was embarrassing for him to accept a job, ask real questions and then be fired unceremoniously. And he's entitled to whatever severance he's legally entitled to. Yes, yes. He should have never signed it, but that's another issue. I agree with you about the niche media companies, but there's a very big difference

in what Dawn Lemon's doing and what Megyn Kelleher. I get that she works hard, but she works hard insulting women, screaming about things. I just, if that's the way you wanna make your business, it's fine, but it's grotesque, I'm sorry. And a lot of these companies, some of them are amazing, and some of them are just a bunch of hacks and they both will benefit. Okay, I'll use others, whether it's Puck or the information

or what they're trying to do with the Daily Beast or Axios or even if you don't agree with them with the way they acquit themselves, I'm here for these little niche media companies running the Daily Wire. I hate their shit, but I totally respect what they've built. See, I have a thinner, I have a much bigger refill. It's gotta be well done.

Even I like the bulwark. I don't agree with a lot of stuff they do, but they actually do journalism. The ones that don't are heinous, I'm sorry. They're just hacks and I don't like hacks doing well, even if they're exciting and innovative in some way. Well, okay, now do traditional media. I would agree. Same thing. I have the same filter for those.

I agree. Anyway, I had this interesting argument with Alex because he was insulting CNN or something like that. I said, the reporters of CNN are great, and you don't have to like the night stuff, and you need to distinguish between them. He said, I can't. We had a great discussion about it and I would agree with him. If it tends too much towards the screamy and not the amazing reporters,

I have a problem with it too, all the stations. The problem is it's the screamy stuff that makes all the money, Carol. I get it. That's why I don't like the small ones that do it or the big ones are their shitty reporters, or they have, you know, disingenuous work. I just don't like it no matter what. Anyway, speaking of someone who's disingenuous, tech investor and Trump advisor Mark Andresen

said universities will pay the price for promoting diversity and alleged discrimination against Trump supporters. Andresen made statements and messages sent to a group chat with White House officials and tech leaders. He's always doing this. He's such a—if you've ever gotten a text from Marc Andreessen, he's so high-handed, it's kind of ridiculous. The investor said he views Stanford and MIT as mainly political lobbying operations fighting

American innovation. He's got to fucking be kidding me. The messages discuss the counterattack against universities and called for National Science Foundation to receive the bureaucratic death penalty. They never keep these group chats confidential and I suspect, I mean, reason doesn't care. I like them out because you see what an arrogant asshole he is. But, you know, again, as usual, they say things very firmly as if things don't have nuance. Parts of MIT and Stanford and lots of universities, including conservative ones, can be, can have a lot of problems and parts of them are great.

And again, the same thing, he can't distinguish between that and has decided to say things like, they will pay the price, they will die a death, all this, like, there's so much like drama with these men. I actually agree a lot with what Mark said. I don't, but go ahead. That's clear.

And in our occasional disagreements where people show up, that and how sexy I am. Can I, before you begin explaining why- Before I rant? No, when you have a point, I think you do it from a place of real thinking about it. I think he does it because he's an unpleasant piece of shit. And so-

They backfill into an ultra conservative point where they just wanna tech li- Correct. I think you actually- They wanna cash subsidies and then not pay taxes is where it all comes from. He gets break after break after break and then he pretends everybody else-

And then hates America. Yes, exactly. Go ahead. Okay, so look, 60 years ago, 12 black people at Harvard, Princeton and Yale combined, that was a problem. We needed race-based affirmative action. The DEI apparatus has become so large,

and so, in my opinion, unuseful, and it creates more problems now than it solves. 52% of gay men go to college, 34% of straight men. Harvard's freshman class is 60% non-white, but 70% of those non-whites come from upper-income homes. The academic gap between black and white was double what it was from rich and poor 60 years ago. It has now flipped.

So what we need is affirmative action based on the primary arbiter of your success moving forward and that is how wealthy or not wealthy your household is. Because we still have an economic apartheid because of our checkered history in this nation where black and Latino households only have 20,000 in wealth and whites 150,000. But quite frankly, there has been too much privilege crammed into the small number of non-whites who are rich.

Tyler Perry's kids shouldn't have a better chance of getting into college. Having said that, my industry is guilty of artificially constraining supply such that we can raise prices faster than inflation, which is total bullshit. We should be letting in more kids. And we have let in a preponderance of international kids relative to domestic kids. He was right on that. Not for diversity. That's lying. But because they pay full freight. And we love kids from Honduras or from Italy who pay the full tuition, the full sticker. So we're not inviting them for diversity or for DI.

And it has come at the cost. The cartel, the artificial scarcity, the LVMHing, the rejectionists, exclusionary culture, trying to be a hedge fund for LVMH as opposed to a public servant has crowded out a lot of unremarkable good American kids who might have remarkable futures. He has a point, but the culprit, he positions it as if it's non-whites who are the problem or advancing the rights of non-whites or women. That's not the problem. The problem is a system that has basically said we're going to reject too many kids. We're going to sit on the GDP of Costa Rica and only have 1,500 kids. But what do you know? Harvard and create some Vaseline

over the lens that letting in the Taiwanese daughter of a private equity billionaire somehow diversity. It isn't. International students are outstanding. We love having them. Giving kids with adversity in their background, maybe it's a kid from the inner city, maybe it's a kid who struggled with his sexual identity, maybe it's a kid going through transition, fine. But how we solve the problem and how we come together is the following. Every university in this nation that has over a billion dollars in endowment should grow its freshman class faster than population growth or lose its tax-free status. Here's what we need. We need to let in more international students, more trans kids, more gay kids, more white kids from red states. We need

more kids. You know why you don't have this argument? Is community colleges, because if you just show up and pay the fucking tuition, you're in. So we don't have all this agita and all this problems. Instead of arguing about who gets in and who doesn't, and creating unnecessary agita in between special interest groups, which is totally unnecessary, we just need to let in more kids.

UCLA, 74% admissions rate. When I applied, I was unremarkable. Now it's 9%. We need to just let in more kids such that people like Mark Andreessen can't cloud a very real issue or use that as cloud cover for what is this thinly veiled, ultra conservative viewpoints that quite frankly, come across as a little bit bigoted and hateful against special interest groups who needed a leg up for a long time. I'm gonna insert myself. He's a grievance person. Everything is a grievance, and it all relates to his unhappiness at growing up or whatever happened with his family or whatever.

Everything always is a grievance with this guy. And let me tell you, it was from the start when I started covering him. He was always aggrieved by someone or something and it was always someone else's fault, always. This has been literally when he was selling Netscape stock, it was Netscape's fault. When he was doing this, it was Microsoft's fault.

It was, this guy can never find fault with himself, one. Two. But if he wants to solve the problem, it's pretty easy. He went to an amazing university, the University of Illinois, Neil and I. By the way, public universities will educate two-thirds of our kids, and a lot of them, including the University of Illinois, are doing their level best to live up to their mission, and that is to let in not only just amazing, freakishly remarkable kids, but just good kids that might end up being freakishly remarkable. If he wanted to change things, and I walk the walk

here, I do this, he should be giving a shit ton of money to the University of Illinois under the condition of the following, let in more kids and guess what will happen Mark, more Republican white kids from Kentucky will get admissions. Yes, he will not do this. So one of the things when he goes, the tell is mainly political lobbying operations for fighting American innovation. Shut the fuck up. It's the same thing that he does all the time with all his arguments. He's frequently wrong, but never in doubt. And it's exhausting with this guy.

There you go. All right. I'm just saying, I think you make a good faith argument about the DEI bureaucracy, but the solution of these guys is to kill rather than try to figure out what the best way of getting the most kids in. They do not care about what you care about. They would never give the money to create that vocational thing.

They would never go for, they are not solutions-based ever. They are teardown-based and they really don't like people. I mean, ultimately they don't like people. And by the way, if you saw Marc Adjusa with a poor person, I'd be shocked that he just doesn't. They don't care, and I think you do. So that's why I allow it from you and not from them, even if you agree with things.

Thanks for your grace. But you are, you have good faith. There's a difference between disagreement under good faith and disagreement, because you're a giant fucking asshole who needs therapy about his parents. I got a little of that. Yeah, I know that. I know that. I did Molly at of that. Yeah, I know that. I know that.

I did Molly at Calvin Harris. I know you did. Mark, come with me. I can't believe you knew a way to do Molly with Kara Swisher. Anyway, I would never do it with you anyway, because we'd hug and then weird things would happen. Okay, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

President Trump met with the leaders of five African nations at the White House yesterday. One oops got all the attention when Trump paid Liberia's president a compliment. Well, thank you. Such good English. Such beautiful. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully? English is Liberia's official language. Were you educated where?

In Liberia? Yes, sir. Well, that's official language. Were you educated where? Yes, sir. In Liberia? Yes, sir. Well, that's very interesting. Anyway, you know what happened behind closed doors right before that meeting? President Trump pushed those African leaders to accept people who are being deported from the U.S.

That's according to a Wall Street Journal exclusive. In fact, it's trying all kinds of ideas to increase the pace of deportations. And we're gonna tell you about some of them on Today Explained. Today Explained is in your feeds every weekday. Okay, Scott, let's hear someone's infales. I shall go first.

You go first. I saw two movies, one with Mr. Louis Swisher on, we saw F1. I thought it was a solidly good movie. Brad Pitt looks fantastic. There's a young guy in it, I'm blanking on his name, who plays the young driver. He's amazing. The whole thing is delightful and you know exactly how it's going to end. You don't, there's not a stitch of-

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assumes he wins a race. He wins a race, right. But he, you know, he tries to let the kid win, but he wins and of course, and then, you know, he's like a Clint Eastwood movie. This thing you've seen 109,000 times. That said, I learned a lot about cars and about tires. I like a lot about tires.

There was a one sexy lady technologist in it who I love, who is his love interest. I wanted to go to F1 after it. I have to say, I was like, I would like to go to F1. This was really interesting. There's a little technology in there, fantastic movie. Superman, also a great movie.

I have to say I liked F1 better, but I can see why everybody, Superman is goofy, funny. It is so not woke, it's just goofy. Superman has always been an immigrant. It's always been a tone of this series. He comes from another planet. There's always this thing of him being from Krypton.

I thought the guy who played him was delightful. I thought Rachel Brosnahan was fantastic. She was in Marvel's Mrs. Maisel. I thought the whole cast was great. It was so fucking goofy. It was like there are jokes all over the place. There was one character, this guy who plays Mr. Terrific, another person I've never seen.

So funny. Whoever did this has an amazingly good sense of humor. I think they brought it right where it belongs. I thought, I like Henry Cavill, but too brooding. To All the supermans before, Chris Reeve who I thought was wonderful, too brooding. Now it's really fun and I see why it's getting, it's what everyone wants. It's a fucking relief to go to that movie and there's a dog in it too. And then Supergirl shows up and she's like a badass partier and it's just fun, fun, fun, fun. So that's my win. My fail is Trump attacking Rosie O'Donnell.

And I thought Rosie- No, Rosie Epstein. Rosie Epstein. Let's just call her Rosie Epstein. She called her a threat to humanity. She moved to Ireland, by the way. I thought O'Donnell's reply was so fantastic. She did it on a bunch of places, but she called him

King Joffrey with a tangerine spray. And I loved that. And I called her Oleana Terrell. I thought AOC had the tweet of the week and it reads, wow, who would have thought that electing a rapist would have complicated the release of the Epstein files? She's good. Yeah, exactly, that was really good too.

I love these women that like slapped the fucking shit out of this guy, but what a fail. Like, what is he doing, Rosie O'Donnell? He's, he, like, I don't know what his deal. Rosie O'Donnell? He's, like I don't know what he's doing. Rosie O'Donnell, he's obsessed with her. This has been going on for a long. He's obsessed with getting people to look away from possible implications of pedophilia.

No, it goes back. You remember, speaking of Megan Kelly, when she used to do a good job. That's got nothing to do with this. Well, his- Rosie Epstein. That's all I have to remember. Rosie Epstein, anyway. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Fail, Trump, victory, Rosie. Okay, your turn. So I'll, excuse my win and my fail, That's all I have to remember. Rosie Epstein. Anyway, failed Trump victory, Rosie. Okay, your turn. So, I'll excuse my win and my fail for personal indulgence here. As you know, my father passed away last week. I wanted to talk a little bit about him and a couple of the takeaways over the past few days. My father was born out of wedlock in 1930 in Sydney to a woman who was a domestic helper,

a nanny for the McVicker family, a rich family in Australia. And one of their daughters was childless, which was a crime back then. And they said, we'll adopt your baby. And they gave her some money and she agreed. And then she had the baby, changed her mind and basically convinced her boyfriend, my grandfather to meet her at the docks and they immigrated back to Scotland. My dad was raised in Depression-era Scotland. He says his first memory was during the Clydesbank, I think it was called Raid, where the Luftwaffe bombed some docks and

some factories. And he felt a real sense of patriotism. He was 15 when the war ended, but he said when, I love this image, he said when he was 10, him and his buddies in service to their nation, anyone with an accent in their neighborhood, they would follow around and take notes on them and then report them to the authorities. If someone had an Italian accent, they assumed they were a spy and they would follow them around. I love that story. And he was at the age of 17, lied about his age, wanted to join the RAF and he was told it was too tall to be a pilot, so he joined the Navy. And within 48 hours of joining the Navy

and saying he could swim well, he was jumping out of a helicopter, practicing pilot rescue in a freezing North Atlantic, trying to put 150 pound dummy back in a basket, sent his money home to his mother so he could save to come to America, got home after serving honorably in the Royal Navy for two years and found out that his mom had spent all the money on whiskey and cigarettes, which kind of scarred my father and has always had a really unhealthy relationship with money, but basically made the best decision I've ever made.

And that is he took a huge risk and came to America where he met my mom, his second wife, and I was born to his second wife, my sister, who's been an enormous source of love and reward for me for a long time by his third marriage. He really did live kind of the American dream. One of my favorite stories was when he first got to San Diego, he interviewed to be a salesman at a candle manufacturer. And the HR person said, how long have you been here?

And he said, two weeks. And she said, you gotta wait here. And she brought in her boss and said, we have to hire this guy. He's only been here two weeks and he's already learned to speak the language. And my dad, my dad, you know, had a pretty nice life, but the reality of care is my father wasn't a very

high character person. He had four marriages, four divorces left his last wife when she had late stage Parkinson's wasn't as kind as he could have been to me and my mom or to my sister. And that created a lot of tumult in my life. And that gets to some of the learnings. The first learning is having gone through this,

first of a lot of people, I've gotten about six or seven hundred text messages and emails from you and other people who have been very supportive and nice. And I just want to say thank you. It does help. But also just to be grateful, I've been sort of overwhelmed by gratitude, even though maybe it wasn't purposeful. Again, the best thing that happened to me was being born in America. My dad took that risk, such that I could be born in America. I have broad shoulders, I'm tall, I have a good voice, and I have made an exceptional living communicating. And all of those things I inherited from my father, and there's no reason not to be grateful for those things. And that helps a lot just to

focus on the good stuff. And then about the advice I would have for anybody that I learned with my relationship, which was tumultuous at times with my father's the following. And that is, about 20 years ago, I decided, look, I used to go back and forth. I had very conflicted relationship with my father because it wasn't very good to me as a kid. And so I would get angry at him as an adult and think, I don't want to be a very good son.

And then I recognize, and it's been an enormous unlock in my life, just imagine the son you want to be, or the partner you want to be, the girlfriend you want to be, the employer you want to be, the boss you want to be, and hold yourself to that standard

and stop keeping score. And it was such an enormous unlock for me. I've had such a wonderful relationship with him for the last 20 years, just trying to be a generous and loving son and not think about whether or not I was in the debit or the surplus category. And I've approached, that's just been such an enormous unlock for me in the rest of my life,

thinking about what kind of partner do I wanna be? What kind of friend do I wanna be? And living to that standard, not keeping score. And that started with my decision to try and be a loving, generous son, regardless of what had happened in our relationship previously. Anyways, I'm writing this book on masculinity and I digress to these three pillars of masculinity, of being a protector, provider, and appropriator. You know, my dad did protect his country. He took huge sacrifices and put himself in personal masculinity of being a protector, provider and procreator. My dad did protect his country. He took huge sacrifices and put himself in personal risk

to try and do the right thing and served his country. He did provide for two families and obviously was a procreator at two kids and four grandkids. But it's also a cautionary tale. He never was really able to speak, to think about others in a very generous way. So even when my sister and I were thinking about whether or not we should have a service,

we decided not to, because the reality is the sad truth is nobody would show up. He didn't have any friends. He didn't really have anybody other than his daughter and his son who care about him. And so it really is a cautionary tale. But my dad did serve his country. He was, he did, he did his best.

He checked the primary box. I think around being a father and that is he was much better to me and his daughter than his father was to him. Anyways, 95 lived a very rich life. And his son and his daughter will miss him terribly. No, Scott, I'm so sorry. Almost made it through. It's okay. Scott, this is your best quality.

Don't think it's not. Let me just say, the best, I know your sister just a little bit, she's wonderful. But the best thing you did was give us you. That's nice. Thank you. Anyway, now you got me crying. but the best thing he did was give us you. That's nice. Thank you. Anyway, now you got me crying. Scott. There you go. We'll have to go through this lucky at some point. There you go.

I'll probably have a party. Four wives, four divorces when you were in 70s California with a strong John and Glasswegian accent, you could not only think with your dick, you could listen to it. God, he had a good, he had a nice time. Yeah. And you, and then his son last week was in Ibiza having Molly. When, when.

When, when. When, when. No, I'm serious, Scott, you are a journey and I really appreciate that about you. And I think you took a lot of lessons from your dad. You had a tough time. And it sounds like your mom was the real strong person for you, but it's still, it's you're

from where you're from, right? And that's what makes you the person you are. Anyway, I really appreciate that. And whatever you need, all of us are here for you, including all your listeners and me too. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.

Scott, I can't believe you made me cry. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week, on with Kara Swisher, I spoke with astrophysicist and author of the new book, More Everything Forever, Adam Becker, let's listen to a clip. I think that a lot of what's happened in this country over the last, at this point, 10 years, has shown the kinds of risks that we as a society take by having billionaires, by allowing

that kind of concentration of wealth. It erodes the democratic fabric of the country. And at this point, our democracy is in mortal danger and may already be lost. Oh, that was a particular, it's a great book. It's about the idea of more everything forever, which is a lot of sort of these tech people think when in fact it's more everything forever for themselves. Anyway, it's a great book. He's really interesting. He sort of knocks away all the myths around living on Mars, et cetera, all their dreams that are not good for most of humanity, but it's good for them.

Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Ney, Manzoey Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie and Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Dubrow's, Mia Severio, and Dan Chalon. Nishat Kherwaz, Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts.

Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine n1bag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Thanks to everyone for all your warm wishes. It helps a great deal.