Pivot - Maui Fires, the Hollywood Strikes, and Co-Host George Hahn

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

George Hahn is back to join Kara as co-host! They discuss the latest in the Zuckerberg v. Musk cage match, Sam Bankman-Fried reporting to jail, and Donald Trump’s looming fourth indictment. Then, the Maui wildfire is now the deadliest US wildfire in more than a century, and the Writers’ Guild went back to the table with producers. Then, we’re joined by co-creator of the RuPublicans, Craig DeForest. You can follow the RuPublicans at @rupublicans on Instagram. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. It's Cara. Apologies for the audio quality. I'm jumping on pre-episode to let you know we taped this before the Trump indictment news officially dropped. The former president has now officially been indicted a fourth time and charged in Georgia with racketeering, violating oath of office and other charges

in connection with his attempt to overturn the 2020 election results. And we'll discuss it in detail on Friday's episode with Don Lemon. What a perfect guest co-host with this news. Okay, that's all. Enjoy a great episode with me and George Hahn. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I have one of my favorite guest co-hosts for Scott Free August,

George Hahn. George, say hello to the people. Hello. One of? One of. Yeah. Well, you're the only one who's returning from last summer. Think about that. That's hot. I like that. That's hot. Well, yeah, I know. I give you because you people like, you know, you're my you're my Alan, I would say no, what are you to me? I'm your gay best friend. And now you're my character is that now? In Barbie? Yeah, Ken, you're Ken. You're no, that's Scott. Scott is Ken. You're not as dumb as then I'm Alan. But I mean, it's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, you can wear Ken's clothes. And I hope you will,

because I heard you're going to see Scott on Scott for you, I guess. Yeah, well, clothing optional, but yeah. No, please don't do that. Please, please. Because I may be there for one of the days, and I do not want to see Scott naked. You'll be coming to the cottage, aka the Scottish. The Scottish. Okay. You know, I have seen you somewhat naked in Sex and the City. So I feel like I know this already, but I don't really want to see the whole package, if you don't mind. You know, it would send me back to lesbianism.

It would send me back to lesbianism. Anyway, how are you doing? How is your Scott for you, August? How is your summer in general? My summer's good. It's been, well, you know, no news that it's been super hot and donkey-donk humid here in the NYC. Yes, I'm nearby. I'm in Park Slope, the lesbian rangers, as they say. Welcome to the city. But I've been actually, Kara, I've been doing the bare minimum this summer just because I deserved it.

Why? I don't know. I've just been enjoying relaxing. And when the spirit tells me to take a nap, I don't turn that spirit down. Really? I don't know about these things. All I've been doing is children's all summer, either camps or visits or getting ready for college or getting ready for summer abroad. I mean, you're abroad. It's been a lot. We're in Park Slope, as I said, right now. We're headed to Provincetown, which usually used to be a lot of fun with two kids. And last time I was there was 20 years. I mean,

I've been to Provincetown since, but it was with the two small kids. So we're going to see how we're going to, I'm wearing my Provincetown t-shirt. I'm very excited. Have you been there? Oh, yeah. I have a very special relationship with Provincetown. I love it. I love it. It's a very different thing as a gay parent than a gay running around. But we may go to the boat slip to dance in any case. As one should. I mean, it's really, it's a special place in that, yeah, you can kind of just do and be whatevs and no one bats an eye. And that's magical. Yeah, it's really nice. Unlike Nantucket, where you must wear the same shingle outfit everywhere you go.

You're going literally to the straightest place. Whitest. Whitest place. Super straight, super white. No, listen. One of my talents is to find the gays where they don't want to be found. Right. Are they in Nantucket, or are those the gays you want? Grindr blows up in Nantucket.

Oh, does it? It's all the straight dads there and stuff like that. It's straight. I just, ugh. All right, I'll come out and visit you. I can't wait to see who pops up on my grinder. I know. I can't. Please let me know.

I will. Today, we'll talk about the devastating Maui wildfires, the latest on the Hollywood strikes as writers and producers resume talks, and our favorite use of artificial intelligence this year turned Republican leaders into fierce drag queens. We'll talk to one of the co-creators of Republicans from Instagram account. I saved this one for you because I didn't want Scott in on this one. But first, some quick breaking news. I just posted about this.

CNN has a new lineup ahead of the 2024 election. I love to mention Barbie, but they're leaning into Lady Summer, not just with Barbie, but Taylor Swift and Beyonce are doing incredibly well this summer. It's the lineup of four women and Anderson Cooper, Erin Burnett, Laura Coates, Caitlin Collins, and Abby Phillip, one of my favorite people, Abby Phillip, and Anderson. So, this is their new thing in the head of it. They're sort of putting together a very clear lineup. They haven't had one since Chris Cuomo, really, and Don Lemon left. Speaking of which, Don Lemon's coming on on Thursday. But any thoughts? What do you watch now? What do you participate in cable at all? No, you and Scott have talked about this. And Scott often says, and he's not the only one, that this is about managing decline. I like NPR. I like PBS. And I'm going to say,

I've said it on my channels. I'll say it here. PBS, in terms of how these cable news channels should be running and what do we do, PBS has taken everyone to school. I get the live stream of my local PBS channel, and I have access to all that yummy Downton Abbey, antique roadshow content, whatever. But in terms of linear television... You watch it on an app. My son watches it on YouTube, PBS. He does. We were talking about it. I have an Apple TV, so I watch it on my big TV, or I can watch it on my iPad or whatever. But they do it right, I got to say. Meaning they have linear with heavy-duty streaming, like CNN.

Access to the whole delicious delicious yummy library, right? Yeah. And I can watch my PBS NewsHour, which is fantastic. Part of me feels like CNN shouldn't have gotten out of streaming with CNN+. They should have just added CNN to it. That was my initial question when they were launching it. And I said, okay, great. There's going to be Scott's show and Rex Chapman and all of that.

And that's fantastic. And you know, the Anderson Cooper wearing a sweater show. Great. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't want any of them. But my one question was, do we get CNN streaming as well? Like, is there going to be a live stream? And the answer was no.

But that was kind of a killer. It was weird because I was like, why would you have CNN plus without CNN? That's sort of just like plus. They missed it. Missed it. I just feel like they should do that. I think I would watch it more. I watch a lot more streaming.

And I know the kids do put it on YouTube and everywhere else. I think they're going to have to eventually because linear, obviously, ABC is for sale. It looks like CBS might be for sale. There's a lot of changes going on. They just got rid of its president, who I know pretty well, Neeraj Kemalani. A lot of issues with his anger management, apparently. That's what the reports say. But a guy?

No way. Yeah, I know. I know. Shocker. It's a really different time. We'll see if they can sort of stumble through this. It's a good lineup, though. I have to say it feels a little more stable than Chris Lichtenberg's for them, which is

interesting. But they seem to be working together. Moving on now to the latest in the Zuckerberg v. Musk cage match. Mark Zuckerberg is calling it finally. The penny just dropped that maybe Elon is lying and making things up and just using this as an attention-getting ploy. The Meta CEO posted on threads, I think we can all agree Elon isn't serious and it's time to

move on. Gee, Mark, we all agreed that a long time ago, but okay, fine, whatever. It's fine if you could finally reach us. Last week, Musk claimed in a tweet that he had spoken with the Prime Minister of Italy and the fight would take place in an epic location in ancient Rome. The country's culture minister said the fight would not take place in Rome. I think, as I joked, it was probably Rome total landscaping. Elon says he might need surgery also for a neck and shoulder issue, which many doctors were like, that doesn't grok in any way. So, the fight wasn't happening soon anyway. It was like Captain Bone Spurs. That was a Trump thing to do or make things up. And Mark finally obviously realized he was being used in some

fashion. He's very serious about his competition in this area in martial arts. And I don't even know why he even thought about fighting someone who is not serious about anything and would be a disaster for him. I can't believe I'm giving Mark Zuckerberg PR advice. What do you think? Oh, gosh. Where do I start? You wanted it to happen. Was that correct? I can't believe it. My son's dead. My son's dead, sadly. I honestly don't give a shit. A couple of takeaways here. First of all, Casey Newton, your friend and tenant.

Former tenant. Former tenant. That's right. Oh, he's an owner now. Wow. Look at. Former tenant. That's right. Oh, he's an owner now. Wow. Look at us growing up. Yeah. Mentioned earlier, a couple of days ago, I think on Threads about how the media has to temper how it treats these proclamations from Musk. Yes, that was a great takeaway. He is not to be taken seriously. The credibility is done. Well, he really kind of done, don't you think? I don't know why Mark went along for it for so long. And also- I don't even understand it. Maybe to get relevance himself. I'm not really clear why he did.

Another big takeaway from this is that Musk has succeeded in making Mark Zuckerberg the good guy, the grownup, the winner, without even a single punch being thrown. I just think it brings him down for even engaging with him. All of it, Kara. It's like engaging with a Kara. All of it. It's like engaging with a troll. All of it. I just find like engaging with a troll. I hate that people really wanted it to happen.

It was such a like, you know, it was like, you're a bummer. I'm like, no, I'm an adult. They're leaders. They're important leaders. Yeah, dude, yes. Step back and look at this. Yes, I am a fucking bummer, you know, like my kids don't get to eat donuts all day either. And it just, it's sad, really. And I, you know, I had urged a lot of people around Mark to knock some sense into him, so to speak. But it just, I get that he's enthusiastic, but he should do competitions as a sport with people who are serious about it, right? I can't believe we're here. Seriously.

Like we're in the middle of it and we're swimming in it. We're soaking in it. And we've kind of lost the perspective of how fucking weird this is. Like Trump, Musk, Sam Bankman. We've got these men and it's always men behaving badly to a degree that affects a lot of people's lives or livelihoods or whatever. But they should teach a course on how to be an asshole at scale. Yes, they are doing that. That's what they should. They are doing it. scale. This is what these guys are doing. They are doing that. That's what they're exactly what they should. They are doing it. And it's really, I can't believe that, you know,

look, I have my issues with Mark from a business perspective, but I was shocked that he engaged in this. It's either a midlife crisis or something that's happening to him that he feels that he wants relevancy, but he does not need it this way. He should just be quiet. You know, it's really interesting. I contrast it. Like if you've've noticed, Joe Biden's been very quiet. And the best thing Joe Biden ever does is be quiet while everybody else looks like giant assholes. And then he comes in with a, come on, man, what's with you, man, that kind of thing. And I just feel like- Joe is sitting back and letting them dole out enough rope with which to hang themselves. Yeah, I guess. But they don't seem to ever hang themselves.

I am ready for a new vaccine against this viral plague of high-profile men being horrible. What the fuck is this? Speaking of which, you mentioned Sam Bankman-Fried. He's in jail after having his bail revoked for witness tampering. It might be something that might be happening to Trump, by the way. Cited where Bankman-Fried's over 100 emails and 1,000 phone calls to members of the press in the past several months. He has not called me, just so you know. But he has talked to everyone. It's really quite something. A reminder, the former FTX CEO was

previously out on $250 million bail and required to stay at his parents' home near Stanford University. He'll remain in jail. He's going to be in jail in New York, I think, until his criminal trial on October 2nd, deserved. Another one who's tempting it. What is this? Well, he says he has a First Amendment right to like defend himself. And that's what he's doing. He's so, he's so, he talks to a lot of reporters. He doesn't talk to anyone that'll really give him a truly hard time at this point. You know, because, you know, it's great when you get these memos, if you're a reporter, if you're a beat reporter, it's great when you, so you cooperate with these people. I've done it

myself many times, but you're being used to shape a trial in a lot of ways. And as much as I defend the First Amendment, it's manipulative on his part, which is what he spent his life doing, is manipulating people. Who put up the 250 mil? Do we know? I think his parents. I think it's really interesting. I'll say, you know, he'll probably complain about how he's being treated, but that's where he belongs. And speaking of which, Donald Trump has been attacking judges and witnesses, and the judge in D.C. is having none of it. But he may rack up a fourth criminal indictment this week. He's going to have to attack a lot of people. The Atlanta area prosecutor will go before a grand jury this week, probably Monday and Tuesday, to present results in their nearly

three-year-long investigation of elected interference by the former president. Yet another case, the Fulton County District Attorney, it's Fonny, I think, Willis, is expected to seek charges against more than a dozen people in the case. Trump attacked Willis on True Social on Sunday, calling her phony. He also attacked another judge of color and also a woman. She told him not to, and he did. The question is, will the MAGA base turn against him? Probably not, but it looks like everybody else is getting a little tired, and there's signs even among the MAGA base that they're tired of Trump. There's going to be a group that will never turn against him because the J in Donald J. Trump stands for Jesus for them. But he's exhausting. He's really exhausting. I would

like to think, and there's what I'd like to think, and there's what is, and not always the same. But what I would like to think is that just, I heard it from someone who was at the Iowa State Fair, a guy, like a 51-year-old Trump supporter. He says, we have to move on. He says, we have to move on. He's ready to move on. And I wonder if that kind of that voice from a Trump supporter is representative of more who is just a little bit getting a little bit fatigued by this. And this guy's exhausting. And also, he recognized that Trump has made so many enemies that if he were to be in office, how effective can you be if all you've made is enemies and no new allies, which is I think where he is? Right. I was just thinking this the other day, the constant media attention about how

he's ahead keeps him ahead, right? It's just, ugh, we have to keep him. And nobody else can break out even if people want people to break out. I guess that's up to the voters and nobody else. Not that I have any money to put down, but if I had money to put down, I would bet that this is our final season of the Trump show. Yeah, maybe so. I think we're in the last season. Fingers crossed.

I would hope, even because there's really interesting, I just, we had Will Hurd on earlier, and obviously, you know, I interviewed Chris Christie recently. You know, you've got to really have to have other things. Vivek Ramaswani doing Eminem from Iowa was quite something to see, because that's really the audience for Eminem's hip-hop there.

Sure. Everybody's joking now, the clock's run out, time's up, over, plow, snap back to reality, oh, there goes gravity, oh, there goes gravity choke. Anyway, it'd be interesting to see if they put Trump in jail for breaking these promises his lawyers have made for him. I don't know. Probably not, right? That would be cultural porn.

Too much. Yeah, it would be really bad. He would totally make a TV show out of it. But Scott brings up an interesting point in his last one. I think it was his last week's No Mercy, No Malice that I record. He's pushing that he's not going to be the nominee. But the numbers, I mean, if Trump doesn't make a deal, like a plea deal, the numbers are, and the odds are that he will be convicted and jailed.

Yeah. This is number four. We're coming up on number four. One of them's got to stick. Well, he's having a rough year legally. Okay, let's get to our first big story. The Maui wildfire is now the deadliest U.S. wildfire in more than a century. At least 93 people have died at the time of recording, with the death toll expected to rise.

Thousands have been displaced, residents stranded by a major road closure, and all the fires have cost $6 billion in damage. The fire spread a mile a minute. Warning sirens failed to go off. Fire hydrants ran dry. Hawaii Senator Mazie Hirono said she would not, quote, make any excuses for this tragedy and that the state attorney general has launched a review of the response. There's lots of issues here, one of them being that they used to have sugar cane, which was a much different crop. And since then, these invasive grasses have come in that are like tinder. They've had a drought, obviously, due to global warming and other issues. But also, there's a mix of things happening here, including the end of the way the landscape was.

I just don't understand. I love Hawaii. I love Maui. I love every island of Hawaii. I go there. I used to go there quite a bit when I lived in California, one of the most beautiful places on earth. I've been to the town that it's just shocking to see the absolute devastation of Lahaina. I don't quite know what to say. level, including, you know, how we think about our environment and how vulnerable we all are to living in this new, wherever you are, whether you're in the Midwest with the floods that happened or, you know, in Miami, whether you're in New York many years ago, in Europe, it seems to be going everywhere. How did you look at this? There is the heat that we've experienced this summer. There are the fires.

And Cara, literally, the world is on fire. And I'm not making a metaphor there. Literally on fire. This is a record-breaking, just for people to know, this is a record-breaking heat wave. I forgot about the Canada fires. Right, the Canada fires. Literally, everything is on fire. Yep.

And these increasingly hot sun-built cities have experienced three-quarters of the U.S. population growth in the past 10 years. Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs declared a state of emergency on Friday. Last month, Phoenix broke its record for consecutive 110-degree days. Heat kills more people each year than any other natural disaster. What's to be done here from your perspective? I know that it sounds really stupid to some people, but I am constantly, as I evolve into what seems to be coming like a lifestyle writer with some of the things that I do to pay the rent,

I am constantly thinking about ways that I can reduce my own personal carbon footprint. You write, you tweet about that living in a city, for example, you noting New Yorkers use less. Well, let me just put it this way. Statistically, New Yorkers create a carbon footprint that is 71% smaller than the footprint created by an individual who lives in a suburb or beyond. And that's a function of being in a city where we walk more, we live in these multifamily homes where all the infrastructure that goes into the building, plumbing, electric, cable, it's to power and plumb and juice one structure and accommodates dozens of families, as opposed to a suburban cul-de-sac where all that stuff goes into one house for one family.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. bourbon cul-de-sac where all that stuff goes into one house for one family. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And we walk more and we're closer to resources like medical. I think about it all the time. I am not a vegan, but I'm what I would call vegan adjacent. So, because meat production- But most people don't think about this kind of thing. They're not-

But I do. I know you do, but the linkage between this heat and your lifestyle is very hard. I mean, occasionally messaging breaks through. Like when people shouldn't, you know, recycling was one of those moments. Like, hey, we shouldn't be using all these plastics. It still is a crisis. And the question is, there's no leadership. Is it the job of local governments?

Is it the job of the federal government? I have tried to say that it's a business opportunity, that climate disaster is an opportunity for green infrastructure jobs. Done a lot of interviews with people who are talking about this. And there's lots of people investing right now in Silicon Valley in fusion and nuclear and all kinds. There's never been more green infrastructure and green tech stuff happening than now. I keep wanting to appeal to people's greed over the issue and the fact anyone who has children wants to be thinking about this, but it's really hard to get people because it's such a slow burn. I hate to use that metaphor, but it is. I think as a consumer, I often feel powerless. What can I do on an individual level? I think about constantly when I go to a consumer, I often feel powerless. What can I do on an individual level? I think about constantly when I go to the store, I should bring a canvas bag, which I do.

My recycling, I think about my choices, my consumption choices. Am I buying shit that isn't necessary? I ride my bicycle a lot. And these are small things, Cara. ride my bicycle a lot. And these are small things, Kara. But as consumers, we can, or demanding better of the companies that create things for us, even down to like packaging, little things like that. It sounds stupid, but, you know, I think, you know, there are little things that we can do. And I think cumulatively, because I get laughed at a lot on social media. Yes, I noticed that. Yeah. And it's a little bit, it's like, that's not really, I mean,

this is massive changes in the way we live, right? Or we just burn it all down. Like, you know, what they do is they tend to build it back where it was, whether it's Louisiana, if you remember, they're like building it back. There's that Florida disaster on the Gulf Coast, I think it's in Florida, they're back building that area that was just inundated with water. That's what people do is they're like, oh, we're still gonna live here, we're still gonna do this. Now, interesting, an actor like Jason Momoa,

who's from Hawaii, he recently warned tourists to stay away. People aren't gonna listen necessarily, right? It's one of these slow walking into disaster thing. And, you know, I think you're right. Messaging is part of it. But I just think most people don't even think about it, you know, in terms of ever that this is going to happen to them. And then once it happens, one climate disaster after another happens now monthly. But again, I'm going to circle back to what we as individuals can do. There is a consciousness that is lacking. A phrase I like to think of a lot is conscious consumption,

or you just said it. People don't think of these things. We should be thinking of these things. That's the consciousness. But the question is, how does it get through to people? Is it the state and local governments? Is it restrictions? Because everyone wants to, you know, this idea is, it's called degrowth. There's a whole trend of degrowth. But that, why should that apply to like countries that have been developing for years that want a better lifestyle? It is aimed at already grown societies, you know, in the United States. A lot of tech people are against this degrowth trend, which is kind of an interesting idea. I just don't think people stop moving in any way. And this is climate.

It's because someone is talking about climate justice and where does it begin and where does it end. But I do think over time, this is going to be the absolute number one issue. It is the, yeah. Who gets to grow and who doesn't get to grow. Ride a bike. Do you know, I still have most of my clothes in seventh grade, just so you know. I know you're aware of that. But one of the things I was telling you on this trip, well, I was on this trip and I said, oh, let's try not to take so many clothes and stuff like that. I said, I'm not going to.

Amanda literally in the most quiet way goes, well, you do tend to wear the same three things. And I was like, which I've had since seventh grade. Like I'm a very good user of the same clothes. You may be surprised to hear this, but I am a big advocate of that. People seem to think that I have a huge wardrobe. I do not. Yeah.

I have a very edited wardrobe. My life is very edited. I just choose very carefully. Yeah. I just bought a shirt the other day for the first time because I had to be on Stephanie Ruhl's show. And I was like, I haven't bought a shirt in years. You looked good. I saw it when you were plugging your book. Everlane, Everlane, just a simple shirt, whatever. And then I literally had no pants either.

That's my problem all the time. I had to cover the pants up. No pants on the Stephanie Ruhl show. That's how I'm helping to have a change. Anyway, our hearts go out to the people of Maui and across Hawaii. It is one of the most, if you've never been there, it is literally one of the most beautiful places on earth. But this is something that certainly could have been handled better by the governments. And also, they have to be thinking if they grow again about fire, anti, there's all kinds of things you can do to fireproof. They ran out of water in the fire hydrants. They did. But there's also materials. You're going to see growth in Hawaii, one would hope, back. But that'll be done in a way that'll protect them from these inevitable natural disasters and also man-made disasters.

All right, George, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, writers and producers are back at the negotiating table. How long will it be before your favorite shows start up again? And we'll speak with a friend of Pivot, Craig DeForest, a co-creator of Republicans. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer

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happening? We want a new contract. I'm a SAG member. But Scott wrote a very interesting piece a few weeks ago that we voiced on the podcast that made the rounds over in the Hollywood. Yes, I know. I heard from a lot of people saying your friend Scott, several of my ideas are in there, but go ahead, move along. Go ahead. Of course there are, Karen. Yeah. Okay. But basically saying that the actors and the writers in the studios are mad at the wrong entity instead of being that we should be with the studios. And, you know, the enemy here is big tech. Oh, I wonder if you said that. Really? Where did that come from?

I don't know. There she is. And humility 101 course begins. Yes, I agree. It is big tech. But I think they're all not really helping. This interim thing has a lot of people. Let me read this. The fake interim agreement shit allows movie actors to now work with impunity. These are one-off projects and producers can comfortably

sign given the above. But as far as TV producers aren't jumping in because the contract for TV is much more complicated. Performers here are steady earners who support families and contribute steady, robust incomes to our economy annually. And the majority of these folks could never, to be blunt, make rapid pivots to film. So they're actually striking, losing everything. Well, Paul Rudd and Anne Hathaway work, as I said in public,

if these interim agreements truly are the way to move forward for us collectively, it's morally untenable that stars who have no need of income would work them while their fellow artists lose their health insurance and homes. I think that's 100% true. I just, this is, you know, these exemptions, you're sort of telling the studios they're not putting, you know, people in. And another person who's sort of on the other side, but also is a producer, was like, the entire business is morally corrupt on both sides.

These companies are flying. They have the strike activities, performances. Meanwhile, the industry is shrinking and the average workers are getting permanently hurt on all sides, writers, actors, junior executives, agents and assistants. Meanwhile, fat cat execs, actors and writers, the top ones are feeling no pain.

It's really an interesting situation. You don't know who you're actually fighting against at this point. I don't know. How is your mood? You're in SAG, but not in WGA, right? Correct. What side do you think? Obviously, you're going to take the side of SAG, but how do you think SAG is handling it? Being normally critical of your own side, and then tell me about the other side. I reread Scott's thing last night and the idea. I think it may be to our benefit to launch a suit against AI tech companies. Do you know what I mean?

Barry Diller is already sort of like preemptively doing it. Yeah, although the New York Times is not joining him as he thought they would. But I mean, there's a little bit of shooting ourselves in the foot here. I don't know. I just signed with a commercial agent when the strike hit. And they asked, or no, before the actors joined the strike. And they asked me, like, are you willing to work off card? Meaning, like, would you do non-union commercials? Because a lot of commercials are non-union these days. And at the time I said, you know, and then the actors

came in and struck, right? And then my agent sent me two auditions for two commercials. It's, you know, money I can use. And I said, you know what? I've had a change of heart and I'm watching what's happening. This does not feel right. So no, I'm not going to go off card. And why was that? Ethically, morally, I don't feel right. It doesn't sit well in my stomach

to watch Friends on the picket line and then I'm going to go do a commercial, a non-union commercial as a member of SAG. But what about these independent studios that cut deals with the unions? I mean, exemptions, what does that mean? I have mixed feelings about it. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it's a bad thing.

I have mixed feelings about it. It's like they're kind of setting an example like, oh, look at us. We're still working because we're giving the actors what they're asking for. I don't totally have a huge problem with that because on face value, and I might think differently if I thought about it more, on face value, it's like they're setting an example. By their agreeing, but those agreements are not going to remain in effect once a contract is in place. But working with more people gives the union more power, presumably, if they could make a thing. But this person I was referencing is right. It's only the stars that get this.

People can't make quick pivots to other businesses, whether it's soaps or TV versus a film, which is different because most of the independent studios make films, not TV, right? And those are very different contracts and longer term, et cetera. And it's just one of these things where you wonder where the economics are going to come down. And you're absolutely right. The tech companies can wait these stuff out. Netflix can wait this stuff out, right? Because they've all been waiting

for ways to cut cost and they just got one. Well, Netflix is still making, you know, they still have a cornucopia of it thing. I just watched, I was starting to watch Painkiller on which was terrific.

I just watched Gal Gadot in her show show the heart of stone which i loved i love all those action movies spy stuff and i was like there's 20 things i want to watch it's a question is when do audiences start to feel the effects not until they run out of new content which is a library of stuff that's in post-production right like why wouldn't you if you're a net, hold out? I just, I don't know why. But at the same time, you know what?

As someone who, maybe this is an opportunity for me, like, to catch up on things I never got to watch. I know that. Like, The Wire. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I never watched The Wire. Yeah, but that's the problem. Like, what are these, what are actors and writers going to do?

I get it, but that's the problem. What are actors and writers going to do? Because also over at Disney, Disney's streaming division lost $512 million last quarter and over $11 billion since 2019. In October, premium Disney Plus subscriptions bump up three bucks from $11 to $14 a month. Hulu will go from $15 to $18. Bob Iger says this to encourage users to subscribe to the cheaper ad tiers where the company actually makes more money. There's obviously rumors of Apple possibly buying Disney, which Iger sort of put off a little bit because of regulatory issues. But, you know, they are losing money. He was saying, be realistic. This is the, you know, this screaming thing, except for Netflix, is very problematic for some of these companies, not for tech companies, not for Netflix, but for these companies, the Disneys and the others of the other regular traditional studios. There's all sorts of cross-currents here. It also might have an effect of kind of, you know, the cream will rise

at the end of this. I think you're heavier hitters. I think Netflix, Disney+, Apple TV, and HBO, whatever we're calling it. At some point, it will be economically viable. They're all going to be okay. The smaller ones, not so much. Not so much, yeah. Even Hulu. It's so funny because someone was pointing out they're moving back to an advertising base by, you know what I mean?

We're back to regular TV, which was because if you want to pay less and move to their cheaper ad tiers. Now, I do not want to move to their ad tiers. And, you know, it's just an interesting time for these companies. I just think they better settle this. I just don't know how they're going to settle this. Because when I listen to both sides, I'm sort of like. They're going to have to earn their seven-figure bonuses here. I guess.

Prove their worth. I guess. You know, these are the geniuses in the C-suite who are earning all this money. They are so far apart. Show me you're fucking worth it. I get it. And come up with a solution. They are so far apart.

I just feel smart people I know who are trying to settle it feel frustrated. I'm like Cat Win-Win with a whip in the store. You're overpaid. No, that's not going to work. You're overpaid. That's not going to work. It's not going to work here. I don't think consumers are particularly buying that.

It's like we're... I think the execs are overpaid. I understand that, but I don't think it's helping, pointing that out. I just don't... If it helped, I would say go for it. You know, and I think a lot of these businesses are going to have a real problem going forward. Now, Disney just... I don't think it will sell to Apple, though that would be a big purchase. I think regulatory, from a regulatory point of view,

would never happen. You know, I just won't. It just won't. It's a swipe of the credit card for Apple. But they did do. Oh, we just bought another company. We just bought another company. It would be a big purchase. It would be the right purchase for Apple, actually. But Disney just made a deal with casino company Penn Entertainment, which many looked down upon. They're creating an online gambling site called ESPN Bet. They're leaning into this thing, which you never thought they would. This was sort of a surprise to me, but I get it. He needs to make money. Iger needs to make money.

It was formerly the owner of Barstool Sports and lost a buttload of money on that. And it sold the brand back to David Portman for a dollar. I mean, it was $800 million. They just incinerated. But we have gambling and Walt Disney Corporation now. It's very strange bedfellows. I don't know. I don't know. What is your date? What is your guest date? For the end of the strike? Yeah, just make it up. Oh, God. I'm not good at predicting. But I would say maybe November,

and if not that, we're going to go through the holidays. All right. Well, that's not good news. But well, hopefully, hopefully they'll get they'll come to their senses and actually have real talks about the real situation, which, as Professor Galloway wrote from someone else. No mercy, no malice. Yeah, right. Courtesy of Dame Kara Swisher. Who has been unpaid.

I'm going to start striking in a second. OK, let's get to our friend of Pivot. Okay, let's get to our friend of Pivot. Craig DeForest is a co-creator of Republicans, a parody Instagram account showcasing AI-generated photos of Republicans in drag, including Ted Cruz as Cancun Barbie, Mike Pence as Miss Womb Warden Supreme, and Marco Rubio as Sister Rosie Rubio of the Sassy Sacrament, and so many more. And it's so enjoyable to watch. It's been a real delight. Welcome, Craig, and thank you for your beautiful work. Thank you so much for having me. So, talk about how the project got started,

because when I saw it, I was like, this is just what I love social media for. So, tell us how it happened. It really got started actually in Palm Springs of all places. My husband and I live in an Airstream. We're remote workers and travel around for part of the year. So we were in Palm Springs, actually took an architecture bike tour. That's the best tour. Thank you. We heard it on your show and then we took one.

He's so great, isn't he? Thank you. Yeah. And we were watching the news, really, hearing what was going on. I think at that time, it was really things in Tennessee happening around anti-drag legislation. And I thought to myself and said to Steve and my husband, I would love to see these GOPers in drag. And he immediately said, Republicans. And the idea, he's a writer and his brain just works like that. And the idea came out of that. And I went online and looked, is anyone

doing this? And couldn't find it anywhere. I was super surprised. Stephen suggested I use tools like MidJourney and ChatGPT and start looking into those. So I taught myself and the first post within 24 hours, really, from the idea to the post is when this all happened. And, you know, two weeks later, it was like 200K. So you didn't have any particular background in this technology you've used. Zero background. I'm like international education, community engagement, higher ed, like tech, but like, no, I as activism? Do you consider yourself an activist or how do you see it? I mean, it's obviously caused great delight and consternation, which is how you want it to work out. But what is it doing from that? I do. I love that question because I have started to see myself as an activist and all of the people who are following along are

taking action. So many of them already are activists. So in three days, we raised $21,000 for the ACLU of Montana Foundation. And that was a shock. I didn't know that we could do that. That happened in like the first month or two. We're trying to call out the hypocrisy of the GOP. And I know that there are actually, I'm kind of going off on a tangent here, but like there are people in my family who are Republicans who love this stuff, who think it's hilarious because they understand how ludicrous this all is. And it's just this huge distraction. So yeah, I want to keep calling them out. I think AI, there is a place for it in activism. George? First of all, so nice to meet you, Craig. And now to put a name and a face with this

whole thing, because I'm loving every single post. So I'm curious to know, do you run it through a thing? Like, do you describe, I want to see Lindsey Graham, and do you talk about like what colors you'd like to see the setting and how many like iterations before you get the right one and make sure they all have five fingers? And yeah, like, what does it take? Yeah. What does it take to turn her into a drag queen? Yeah.

Yes. And thanks for sharing, Jord. You shared our page early on, which certainly helped us grow and get the word out. So I appreciate it. It's so good. I go on to Midjourney and I put in all of what you said. So it's unique original prompts and I'm not inputting images.

I'm saying, this is the person I would like to see. This is how they look. This is the color scheme. This is, maybe it's like 1990s inspired or Barbie inspired, and maybe they're feeling a certain way, like the Rudy Garland image that really set things off. Mm-hmm. Like, for that- Who has, by the way, appeared in drag in real life.

I know. Many times. Some of these folks have, and that's the craziness, right? Right, right. Yeah. And one of the words in that is mental breakdown for the description and the prompt. Why? Why? Well, because Rudy Giuliani was like, he always looks like he's having a breakdown. He is a mental breakdown.

Okay. And how do you decide which one to roll out next? Obviously, Lindsey Graham's an obvious one. Rudy Garland is an mental breakdown. Okay. And how do you decide which one to roll out next? Obviously, Lindsey Graham's an obvious one. Rudy Garland is an obvious one. Ted Cruz is a very attractive drag queen, I would have to say. Have you gotten any pushback from anybody? Not major, but it's funny you mentioned Ted Cruz, a.k.a. Cruzella DeVille,

because when we did the Ted Cruz post, he posted about it on Twitter. I don't know if you saw this. So the Houston Chronicle ran a piece on it. They did like an op-ed sort of thing and talked about the post. Ted Cruz, I guess, saw it. And that day he posted the images of himself as a drag queen and commented on it. He got roasted. What did he say? What did he say? I believe, I believe green is my color and not whatever you use.

If he wanted to have fun with it. Yeah, he could have. No, he said, I guess it's a slow day at the Chronicle. And then everyone just roasted him in the comments. It was amazing.

Does anyone, has anyone secretly called you and said, I look good. Thank you for that. No, no one has done good. Thank you for that. No. No one has done that. I would love that. I don't think any of these bitches have a sense of humor about themselves.

None. Probably not. I don't know. I'm trying to think. Not on the right. That's not on the right. That's the problem. I think secretly Rudy loves it.

So you've said you'll never do a portrait of former President Donald Trump. Why is that? Is it unattractive? What? He gets so much attention immediately when we started doing this and people were just, we want to see Trump. We want to see Trump. When are you doing Trump? Our immediate reaction with our conversations with each other, we're just like, this is not happening. We're done. We're done with Trump. And like, I know the world isn't done with him. He's still a huge figure and he could be our president again. And I just think he gets enough attention. He wears enough makeup. He wears more makeup than a drag queen. So he's already got it going on, I think. Right. The hair. Certainly. You're good. So you're not going to make that, even though it'd probably be the most popular, presumably.

No, but I like this but I like this choice. All right. Okay. I respect this, that you're not going to do him. And by the way, that would really probably make my eyes burn. Okay. Now, George and I are going to open a special image you've made just for Pidget. Let me link to the image here.

I'm so excited. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. That's fantastic. All right. Oh, good heavens. George, read the caption, George. I'm wearing my glasses, by the way, but go ahead. Wait a minute. George, why don't you describe the waist up, it's like, he looks like he's wearing a gold lame cat suit. Or maybe this is sequins, but it's gold.

Yeah. Cat suit, sunglasses, like aviators, but like with gold rims and a skirt. There's a skirt feature over this gold lame catsuit and gloves, black gloves. And there's a little pink hair coming out from behind and cascading down the shoulders. Read the caption. Please welcome to the literal runway, the Lady of London and Daddy of Ibiza, Anita Scott-Free-August. She's wearing heels higher than your ambitions as she boards her PJ to get the hell out of Wokistan.

They call her the dog, but you won't see this diva chasing tails or bending over unless it's to pick up a fallen eyelash or her capital gains. And the only thing thicker than her contour, that portfolio, Hany. Now, come on, that's good. Hashtag. You were really good. You got that. Check out all of our socials today

to see that image of Scott for yourself on Instagram and threads. here's two thoughts he's gonna love this he's gonna love this one and two you know he stopped wearing drag as he was in a lot of drag and he got pushback from a father of a trans person who thought it would even though he was doing it with you know a level of i would say not hatred you know that a level of, I would say, not hatred, you know, that a trans dad was talking about. I talked to him about it. I said, oh, the way you're doing it feels a little bit taking advantage of it. Tell us why you picked these colors. Oh, it's so good.

I think it was more about the concept of being on a runway and with the private jet than like picking particular colors. I don't think I had anything going for that. It was more about the scene and then it kind of spit out different options and I let the flow happen. So. It's beautiful. It's really quite beautiful. I need a scot-free August. I like, what would you turn me and George into? You know, I'm thinking now, just because it was on my mind, is the bike tour. So I might put you in Palm Springs. You might be standing next to a bike in a palm tree. So I might have like a palm tree theme, like you're on vacation, getting some sun. Any names come to mind? Mia Kia. Oh my gosh.

By the way, update. The Kia is fine. It's being fixed. We'll go ahead. Move along. Oh, good. Good. Got crushed by a tree.

What about George? George is, George, there's so many directions you can go. Well, George is going to be in a park. You know, he has his good morning videos that he does on Instagram. So, I think he's going to be in a New York park setting. I'm feeling like a navy blue sort of feel, like deep colors going on. And it's got to be a really, really big wig, like cascading over the top. Oh, a cascading wig. Very nice. Yeah, yeah. And none of this was possible,, Kara and George, nine months ago or whatever.

When we first started this, we were like, we couldn't have done this six months ago. This is a whole new world that this opened up. Right. With all of the sort of contempt prior to investigation with regards to AI, you have sort of shown where it can create a job, as it were, because you guys have created a little job for yourselves. Not little, it's big, and it's fantastic. You've got merch and you've got things like that. Is this going in a real monetizable direction for you? Well, great question. I mean, if Scott was here, I might

ask him, Scott, like, how do I monetize this? But no, I mean, we're not making money right now. And the main goal is to, I would say more than that, is find ways to support causes and candidates. And being a sustainable thing is important and it's secondary. But right now, this is so new. And I want it to be a place where people can come to learn, get motivated, stay engaged. I was so apathetic for a while because of just the political scene. When I started this, it jumpstarted something in me and reignited something. And my guess is that it's done that for some people too, who are following the page. What I'd like to be able to do is support candidates maybe on more of a local level. You know, like there are these national figures that are corrupt and doing all kinds of awful things, but we know a lot of change happens at the local level too.

So what can we do for them? How can we raise funds for organizations like the ACLU? So in terms of money, like that's what I'm thinking right now. Yeah, I agree. I think one of the things is it's got sense of humor about it that I think is much more effective than just being angry or anything else. You can feel your anger, but it's- With whimsy.

I think what's attracting people to this beside the humor is a big piece, but it's this intersection of all these things that are at the tip of our tongues and top of our minds right now. It's art, it's politics, it's drag, LGBTQ issues, it's artificial intelligence, and it's at the forefront of law. Like we're, we're out here sort of in a gray area, which we're aware of. But I think that's what drew a lot of people to it. It's fascinating. Anyway, we love it. Thank you, Craig. And you can and must follow, you can't listen to us anymore if you don't, follow Republicans at Republicans on Instagram, but you can find it lots of places, but start there. And threads and threads. It's everywhere.

And it's really fun. And it will make you laugh and maybe think really hard about these terrible men who are doing terrible things to people who do not deserve it. Anyway, thank you so much, Craig. And we think you're wonderful. Thank you. Appreciate it. Great to be here with you both. Thank you. All right, George, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month, every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money.

Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at fizz.ca. Okay, George, let's hear some wins and fails. I'm going to start. The fail is these dozens of news organizations have written a letter condemning a police raid on a Kansas newspaper. The raid believed to be prompted by a story published by a local business owner, including seizure of computers, cell phones and documents. They actually never published the story. Police claim they're investigating identity theft and unlawful acts concerning computers. It's a ridiculous overreach by government on some things. And it's so confusing, but it's just, it's a repulsive event. I can't believe it happened in this manner and it's tragic in lots of ways, but also I hope that all news organizations support this small newspaper in Kansas. For my win, as I said, Gal Gadot, Heart of Stone. She's a hottie.

She's good. Love her when she's wielding a gun. She's actually really good. I know they've gotten mixed reviews, but I got to tell you, it's like that other movie with Charlize Theron, a similar thing where she was a badass. I'm blanking on the name of that. Oh, The Guardians of San Francisco? The Guardians.

Yeah, whatever. I'm blanking on the name of that. Oh, the Guardians of... The Guardians. Yeah, whatever. I love that too. Lady ass kicking is my theme for 2023. Whether it's Barbie or Gal Gadot is my new... Or Taylor Swift. Lady ass kicking is my favorite thing. Beyonce, everybody. Anyway, that's my win.

Your win and fail? I'll start with my fail. My fail, too many high-profile men, men of influence, men with a responsibility in an apparent race to out-asshole each other. Out-asshole. Sending a message to their considerable audience of young men in particular, whether we're talking about Donald Trump, aka, Shittler, Elon Musk, Sam Bankman-Fried, Ron DeSantis. What the fuck?

Right. Yes, they're not good examples of men. Right. And I put a lot, not all of it, but I put a lot on Donald Trump who sent the evolution of men back about 70 years and made it not just acceptable to be an asshole, but desirable to many. This is bad. These are guys with power and influence and sway. And other guys who are sort of unsure of themselves are trying to figure it out and how to go about life and how to be a man look at this and go, oh, that's the way. This is bad. This is bad behavior. And we're going in a real bad direction. So that's a fail. As a mother of three sons, I just, and a daughter do, I just find it, I have not grown kids

this way, men this way. It's a really bad, it's, let me just say many men do disdain this. That's the only thing I would say. Go ahead. I agree. You know, these are isolated, isolated but notable examples. Yeah. My win, also on Netflix, Painkiller. Broderick is really good. Broderick is wonderful. And Peter Berg, who directed all six episodes.

Peter Berg is an actor. He was an, I remember him in from that great movie with Linda Fiorentino, The Last Seduction with Bill Pullman. And what he managed to do with Painkiller, because a lot of people are going to try to compare it to Dope Sick. Dope Sick, which is also fantastic. Right. It's about the same thing, basically.

However, what Peter Berg manages to do with this is take a very deadly, serious, tragic, agonizing situation and manages to infuse it with some very dark comedy. Yeah. I think one person who saw it loved it. One person said it was too much on a very serious topic and preferred Dope Sick, which was so depressing. Appropriately so.

I think Peter Berg and the cast managed to strike this very unique balance, and I loved it. Well, I think all of these things make you want to find a Sackler and, you know, cage match them, so to speak. That's a cage match I'd like to watch. Yes, I would too. But actually, we don't believe in violence. We do not contend violence, although we would like to slap a Sackler

after seeing any of these things. Those are good ones, George. Those are really great ones. Painkiller and Heart of Stone. And again, Netflix, both of them. Both Netflix, both Netflix. George, as always, I really appreciate you as a person and as a guest host, and you are always welcome on all our shows

and you're a delight as a person. I just want to say you're an inspiration for many of your friends, just so you know. You're, Kara, you just made my day. Thank you. Did I make your day? You're a wonderful man. You have such a joie de vivre and a way you go through life. And you take many, even when things are lemons, you make them, you know, gay lemonade. And it's so delicious. I make country time. You make country time. Oh, my God.

Remember country time? I sure do. Oh, my God. So bad. So bad. That's why literally when I call over one day, they'll be like, oh, it was the country time and Lucky Charms. That's what happened. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm here to report kids still love sugar. Anyway, my son, Saul, walks around and goes, raisins, raisins. That's my boy. That's my boy. My birthday twin. We got him a haircut.

No, he had such beautiful, long, beautiful locks. But he now is like such a boy. Was this his first haircut? Yes, it was. That's a big step. It was, he was fine. I still remember mine. I scream afterwards.

Yeah. Do you? Mr. Flanagan. Mr. Flanagan. He's an old friend of our family. Oh, and he cut your hair? Yep. Yeah.

And? And I remember it. It's the same haircut to this day. Basically. Yeah. This is my last haircut of children I have. This is my last first haircut, if that makes sense. Yeah. This is my last haircut of children I have. This is my last first haircut, if that makes sense. Yeah.

This is four of them now. And the only one that's been really bad was Louis Swisher, who was so bad that snippety crickets barred us for several years. Anyway, sorry, snippety. I still feel bad 20 years later. Anyway, I'll read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Travis Larchuk, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and

Vox Media. We'll be back later this week with another breakdown of all things tech and business. We have a shout out to our lovely Lady of London and daddy of Ibiza, Anita Scott Free August. We'll see you in Nantucket this week. Thank you, George. Thank you.