Pivot - Meta’s Massive Settlement, Bill Gates’ AI Warning, and Remembering Dolly Parton

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

Scott-Free August continues, and Kara is joined by CNN’s Kaitlan Collins! They talk about Dolly Parton's legacy in culture and business, unpack Meta’s landmark social media addiction case settlement, and discuss the growing political backlash to data centers. Then, they break down Bill Gates’ warning about AI, Trump’s political power heading into the midterms, and a golf ad that spectacularly missed the mark. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠.Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠.Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠.Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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To learn more about how CoreWave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWave.com slash Ready for Anything. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca.

I'm Ina Garten. This fall, join me for Happy Hour with Ina, my new video podcast. Each week on the show, I'll invite guests for a delicious drink and a conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. And you're invited. Subscribe to Happy Hour with Ina on YouTube or your favorite podcast app for new episodes every Wednesday starting September 16th. For Donald Trump and the Democratic Socialist of America to both put out a pretty similar statement about the passing. of someone is a moment that probably will never happen again. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and we're back for yet another fine episode of God-3 August. Oh, I love that so much. Today, I'm joined by Chief White House correspondent at Anchor of the Source with Caitlin Collins, the very same. Caitlin Collins. Good to see you.

How does Scott feel about that intro? What do you think? You saw him more recently than I did. I saw a photograph of the two of you. I did run into him. It's so funny to see Scott, like, out in the wild. You know, it's like seeing, like, a teacher when you're, like, in the sixth grade

out of school and you're like, what are you doing here on vacation? Yeah, did you see that? What was he doing there? He was just hanging out. He was having dinner with someone, like a political, you know, foreign policy thinker. He was good.

He seemed rested. and ready to get back to podcasting. Yeah, he's suddenly texting me a lot, so I know. It's the end of August because he's like, hey, girl. And I'm like, oh, hi, good to talk to you. And he's also threading a lot. You know, he does threads, and so he has an opinion about things. I'll tell you, we'll discuss this later, but he's very upset that he's not here for the Natalie Harp situation.

He's like, missed that. And now, Dolly Parton, Scott and I are a huge fan. So you dedicated your entire show to Dolly Parton on Tuesday night. Talk a little bit about it. What's your favorite Dolly song to start with? I mean, I was actually thinking about this last night because I was listening to, I had a very long car ride last night. I was listening to Dolly Part in the whole time.

Yes, me too. You know, I really think, I mean, there's so many good ones. And Islands in the Stream is incredible. But I really think it's hard candy Christmas because it is like, I know it's kind of like a random one. No, it's not. That you're a real fan if you know that one. Yeah.

Yeah, it's not always the first one I think people think of. Right. But it's what I think of when I think. of Dolly Parton. And for us to dedicate a whole show to something that is not politically related is pretty rare for us, but it really speaks to, I think, how everyone felt about about Deli Parton, certainly how I think about her. Yeah. Oh, but I think she was politically related in a way that was very different. I think she did a lot of political things without saying them out loud. She was someone who was called quiet politics, like in terms of her actions, whether it was

supporting the Moderna vaccine or whether it was, you know, doing all manner of feminist things without having to say so, or supporting trans people, or supporting Black Lives Matter. She was quite explicit about that. So she was political in a very different way than what we're used to, I would assume. Yeah, and you know what I loved is when we had Melissa Etheridge on, she brought this up immediately, and we were going to talk to her about it. But that moment when they did the Crossroads duet together, which, you know, I grew up watching CMT. Like, that's all.

My parents could get me to clean my room because I would Blair CMT, like Travis Tritt and George Strait and I would just listen to music. But when they did their duets, it was the first time that two women had done it. So it was a breakthrough in and of itself. But Melissa was telling me that actually it meant so much more to her than that because Dolly was selected. They let Dolly pick who she wanted.

She picked Melissa at the ridge. And it was in 2003, it was at a time when the gay marriage debate was raging in the United States. And Melissa said for her to be invited in that moment to share the stage with her was so special and so meaningful to her. And obviously, she spoke up for the gay community so much throughout her career. decades before it was a in vogue thing to do for a celebrity.

And it was just so special to hear Melissa talk about what that meant, you know, 20 years ago to share that stage with Dolly Parton. I think she knew exactly what she was doing. You know what I mean? I think she understood her, who she was, and she had conducted her career that way, doing, you know, really being the

pilot of everything. One of the things I put up was a song that I love called Travelin Through, and it's not as well such a great song. It was from a a movie called Transamerica, which was about a trans woman who was meeting her son. And it was astonishing. And it's such a song of acceptance. You know, at the time, it was not a thing that people did. A lot of people did. She constantly put herself on the line in that regard in a very quiet, but I think profoundly strong way in a very different way. Although she did speak out when she

needed to. She absolutely did. Yeah. And you know, even just on her life overall, I have never gotten so many messages from family members about my show. I mean, they watch. Obviously, I always say I'm converting Alabama viewers one at a time. Explain where you're from for people. People do know your background, but people who don't. You're from Alabama. I'm from a small town outside of Montgomery called Prattville in Alabama, and my immediate family watches the show almost every night, but to hear from kind of some distant relatives last night or people in my family that I went to Dollywood with a bunch of times as a kid, it was really fun to hear them reflecting on. on her and also, you know, loving to hear from Pam Tillis and Melissa Etheridge last night.

And, I mean, but Dolly really was a huge part of my childhood because this is what we did in the South for vacation. We drove down to the beach or we drove north to Tennessee. Those were our two spots that we went pretty much every year. And we would go to Dollywood and we thought it was, I mean, it was Disney World for us before we went to Disney World. And we'd go there, you could see Dolly's childhood home, a replica of it. And it was just, it's a core memory for me as a child.

And so having that, you know, knowing her childhood and what she came from and never forgot is so meaningful to me, I think. And genuine, too, because a lot, let me tell you, you'd be surprised to know, of course, I've been to Dollywood. I was also a huge Elvis fan, by the way. And I've been to Tuple. I've been to Tupleau. That's how much I was. And I loved Dolly Parton so much. I took my whole family to Dollywood.

And one of the things I loved about, and it's in Pigeon Forge, which is now kind of big and choristy, but it's really kind of fascinating what she's done there for. economically for that region. And she, I went there and what's amazing about it, which is, there's so many differences in this country that's crazy. But when you get in Dollywood, everyone gets along. Like it's crazy. Like you walk through the thing, walked through the butterfly entrance. And I took, my daughter, Claire, was a baby.

You just found the pictures from there. And including in that shack, we took her into that shack and everything else. And a butterfly is a dolly symbol, whatever, that was her thing that she had around. And literally you have the gays, the rednecks, the conservatives, the liberals, the lesbians. It was crazy. And everyone was so happy to be together because of her. And I was like, can you bottle this? It was such a – and then minute you go out, it's back into guns and abortion and everything.

Like you're like, it was a really interesting feeling. And I never understood it. I loved Hollywood. I still haven't figured out how she did that. I mean, how she built this massive career, stayed true to her roots, was always herself. I mean, that's what I think is the most infectious part about her, is you watch her get all these questions, you know, 20, 30 years ago from a lot of men about her appearances and her look and how that affects her. I mean, Dan Rathers' face when they're in this sit down and she's saying that she never slept with anyone to get anywhere, she only slept with people that she wanted to sleep with if she happened to have slept with them, is this iconic moment. And he, I mean, you could tell he doesn't even know what to really say back to her.

But I just think, you know, reflecting on how she was able to to span that spectrum and appeal to so many people, it's hard to just think of other people. No one. Who have achieved that? People ask me, who do you want to interview of all people? And I said, Dali Parton, but only about her entrepreneurship. I just like, I don't want to talk about the songs. I don't want to talk about anything but her entrepreneurship. And that's what really got through.

her ability to shift and change and move along, whether she went from, you know, country to leaving that show, the Porter Wagner show, to moving on to pop, and then she went to the... It just... She is the quintessential American entrepreneur, and I'd heard the reason I wanted to interview her, was she was doing a lot of stuff with AI and song stems

because she owns thousands of songs that haven't been released, too. And so she wanted them released after she died. And this is what I... I didn't know that. Exactly. And I wanted to talk to her about it. And just she is the absolutely quintessential American entrepreneur in a way that is so beautiful and also just a kind and just a kind soul in a way that's very profound in a way. I don't know. I just feel like that's why people reacted. So what did your relative say, may I ask? I mean, they're all just sharing their own memories about going to Dollywood, listening to Dolly Parton, what she meant to them. I mean,

my mom is a fourth grade teacher and she said she's been playing it in her class. all morning. My stepdad, who was the, you know, driving force behind us going to Dollywood, was texting me about it this morning. And, you know, one thing that's funny, we were talking about taking your kids, which I love that you did. And I think everyone should go, is we went in a time when there were no smartphones or anything like that. I mean, maybe we had disposable cameras, but, I mean, maybe we didn't. I was asking my family, I was like, are there any pictures of us at Dollywood. And honestly, everyone was looking for them yesterday because I wanted to use them in the show. And we couldn't find any. And I think it was a sign that of the times, but also we had so much fun on

these trips. And we were just so, you know, locked in on a family vacation of it all that, like, that was it. There are no pictures because that's how much fun we were having. And I just love that. I feel like it's so quaint. It's a wonderful place. The food is great, too, by the way. Cinnamon rolls are incredible. But also, there's healthy food. too, too. It's like a mix. I was sort of like, Tully. Well, we weren't eating that. I'll No, I know. I had the cinnamon. Obviously, I had the cinnamon roll. Hello. I had a dream of going up to the actual shack finding it. And then I thought I'd get arrested or something like that. Yeah, because it still exists. I mean, she went back and bought it later on, which I think is so

incredible. And it was insulated with newspaper and all these other clippings that were on the wall because that was how they said. You know what I love that she said? Everyone's talked about her imagination library. And I'm a huge reader still. My kids are reading. Reading is, it's amazing. And reading as a kid was so, like, instrumental for me. But what I loved when she talked about why she started it is because her dad couldn't read or write. But she didn't say, oh, he couldn't read, couldn't write. She said he never had the chance to learn. That's right. And he didn't have that opportunity afforded to him. And I loved how she phrased that because I do think, I mean, all over, but especially in the South, so many of us have grandparents or great-grandparents that are like that. And it wasn't that they couldn't or that they wouldn't have been able to. It was that they didn't have the opportunity. And that is what she wanted to give to people. Right, absolutely, all the time. One of the moments, and you probably covered this, when she used the Jolene's song, which is one amazing song, in lots of ways, including technically how she put it together. But Joe, she'd vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. That was also a moment when there's all this anti-va.

It was incredible for her to, that is a big political statement to me, like, and a risky one for someone like her. Think of the lives she saved. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what Melissa Etheridge was saying last night about her being outspoken about be who you are and don't worry about who someone else is. And the permission structure that she basically gave to people who were sitting in their room thinking, well, Dolly Parton's not judging me. I think in the South, especially during the pandemic and people, a lot of vaccine hesitancy, I saw it among people I love. And to come out and say that, you know, she could have said nothing. Right.

And she chose not to. Not only did she put her money where her mouth is, she also spoke up like she always has. She always has, which is amazing. Just for people to know, this imagination library is amazing. My kids use it. They're wonderful books. And it's a Republican lawmakers in Missouri and Indiana cut or reduced funding for her child reading program. I hope they will reinstate it.

I hope some billionaire will get with it and back that as they go forward. I'm sure she is giving away most of her money to things like that in her will. although she, one of the other things that I loved was her dedication to her own family. Like they were all working for her. And that video from her nephew was, who was her security person and her dad was before. I know. You just are like, what? You know, it's a real shift.

Now, let me just say, Donald Trump ordered flags to fly at half staff and said in a post, there's never been anyone like her and never will. Rest in peace. Dolly, the world loves you. Surprisingly did not try to suck up the energy. Were you surprised? For Donald Trump and the Democratic Socialist of America to both put out a pretty similar statement about the passing of someone is a moment that probably will never happen again. Never again.

I mean, for them to both agree on something, I think also speaks the moment we're in, but it was a moment where, I mean, this morning he was saying in an interview that, you know, Dali Parton always liked him and was, you know, so nice to him and a fan of his. And then, but in terms of this overall, you know, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, because we've talked about billionaires so much between the two of us and these tech. giants and what people do with their money. One thing I keep seeing on in the aftermath of her death is how she spent her money and that she was obviously extremely successful, but how she used that success to reinvest, not in like a bullshit kind of way in terms of, you know, let me make myself look good. She genuinely wanted to invest in children and in her community and where she came from. She gave money to the people in the, to finish high school. She gave money to do that when people were devastated by, I think, the floods. She gave money, people for that to recover or whatever

had been happening there. She also, when she made all that money on I Will Always Love You, when Whitney Houston redid it, and she made a fortune on that song and didn't sell it to Elvis. Again, great entrepreneur. She could have sold it to Elvis and she didn't at that time. Which imagine how tough that decision is. Oh, I totally feel for her. Like you tell Elvis, no. No. No, you can't have it because she knew. She knew what a great, that's a perfect song. But what was really interesting is she continued to do that. And I agree with you. She didn't do, like, I guess the equivalent would be McKenzie Scott, who is Jeff Bezos's ex-wife, who just gives money and goes away.

Like, just hands it out, moves along. And you never hear from her. She does, she just hands it over to people, which I think is unusual. And you're right. Most people do it in this incredibly selfish, performative way. Now, interestingly, Jeff Bezos did give Dolly Parton $100 million. for that money that he gave out to a number of people, including, I think, Van Jones and others, I think Jose Andres got some. And I think she's given it all away. She's given it, you know, which is great. But honestly, Jeff Brazos should fucking just give it away. Like, to me, I was like, let's not do this performative, let me meet famous people. Just give it away and keep giving it away. That would be my taste in that. I love your shirt, by the way. Oh, thank you. I don't think we even talked about it.

Oh, I'm wearing a shirt that says WWDD. What would Dolly do? I got it at Dollywood. It's so good. What would Dolly do? Well, I didn't realize, they didn't have this when I was a kid, but I was talking to someone last night about going, that they have a display of her wigs there now.

Yes. Yeah. Which I love. Yeah. I love the coat of many colors is there, and everything is there. You know what she did that I also think is important for women is she did not associate aesthetics with character. Mm-hmm.

And she could separate those two in a way that a lot of people I had to this day still struggle with, which is why I think she got so many questions about it. And every time she got a question, it seemed like, about her appearance, she would turn it back to what she's like on the inside. And she wasn't bashful about, you know, what she had done. I loved that also. But she was saying, you know, well, maybe it's fake on the outside, but it's real on the inside. That's right. Deep, that's one of her songs. That's one of the great songs she sang. So good. And one of my other, it's fake eyelot, what's it called? Backwoods Barbie. That's a great song. That talks about false eyes.

Big dreams and faded jeans. I think this is the other one that I love. And then I kept putting up songs that people don't know about. And my favorite is, and they redid it with a bunch of amazing women artists recently with her, which is light of a clear blue morning. But I would recommend reading, listening just to her sing it. For some reason, her death, which I kind of, I think everyone was sort of expecting a little bit. This weekend, I had spent a lot of time watching her for some reason.

I love Dolly Part. Wow. I can't believe. I know. Yes, I was like, oh, I think she's going to die soon. I need to be with her. Like, I've got to like spend time. And because she was always up and out and she wasn't, right?

So you had to imagine something was going on. And one of the things that I thought about was it gives people courage her death. I know it sounds crazy, but this, like the Internet was like saturated with her yesterday. All kinds of stories from regular people, the kind thing she did. and all manner of things. And I thought, I have just about fucking had it not getting along with people. She is right. Like, you know what I mean? Do you imagine it will have some political impact? Because I tell you, everyone I know woke up today and like, okay, that's enough. That's enough with the hate. That's enough with, like, this woman lived the most perfect, you know, if you want to talk, a religious life,

Christian life in the way that was just right. Do you think it will have a political effect on people? because I felt like that's enough of this hate. I think that's a good point. I mean, because you couldn't open any of the apps without just seeing everything about Dolly, which never happens, where we all come together or something. I'm not sure if it'll have an impact, but I think it shows how much people are grasping

for something that does unite people and that does give people hope and enthusiasm and an optimism and just something that everyone can love and no one has to complain or criticize or argue or, you know, avoid the subject with people they love because they don't want to get an argument, it really showed that we are grasping for something like that that is hopeful and bright and nice.

And, you know, I mean, we do so much politics on my show. For my team, who was amazing last night, to just go through all these archives of Larry King interviews and old clips of her, I think, like, the way we described it after the show was we were like, that was soul cleansing. Like, it was so nice to have this moment of no arguments, no nothing. It was just everyone talking about Dolly.

And they don't go out. I have to say one of the things she did a lot of very liberal stances on a lot of these issues that are now such hot button issues. You don't see criticism of her. You never see it. Like they never touch her. It's really an interesting and they will not now obviously because she's saint-like. I love Jack White said instant sainthood for dollies. Instant. Instant. Why not? Anyway, we love Dolly. What would Dolly do? This is what I'm going to do the rest. And I recommend the PBS documentary here I am. It's just really wonderful. And she really was an amazing Many songwriter, she was innovative and she was an entrepreneur. That is something you have to think about when you think about her, not just because she came from a modest means, but because of that. And the last thing I would say is people don't realize this. My family's from West Virginia, and so they loved her. That's one of the ways I got in touch with country music very early or bluegrass. How great is that?

Yeah, my grandparents grew up in such a shack in such a place in rural West Virginia. So just everything about her is fantastic. Anyway, let's move on. Meta has agreed to pay. This has just happened, Caitlin. Nearly $17 billion to settle on a major federal case brought by 29 states over allegations that Facebook and Instagram harm children's mental health. The deal also requires major changes to meta's apps, including daily time limits, nighttime blocks for teens and stronger age verification measures. The settlement comes in the second week of a high-stakes trial in California where states accused meta of misleading the public about risks to young users. Any thoughts on this? You and I talk about this a lot.

I thought it was, I think you don't pay, several people like, oh, it's peanuts. It's not peanuts, guys. This is a big deal. I know it's not enough, and everyone had pretended it was $1.4 trillion. That was never going to be a settlement. Maybe $100 million, $200 million might have happened in a jury trial. But this is real money and hopefully real changes. So this is, of course, led by Rob Bonta, who's also doing the Paramount deal.

I know you talked to him recently. or the case leading the cases for the attorney generals. But talk a little bit about this, because this is a point where, first of all, state's attorney generals are the ones doing legislation here, finally getting these changes when the federal government, both Democrats and Republicans, have done nothing at the federal level. Yeah, and I think sometimes when you see those lawsuits, you kind of wonder if it's going to go anywhere. And I mean, this settlement today speaks to that. And, you know, my questions were, one, it seems like the changes, obviously they're directed at children, and that has been the focus of this, is that it will affect all users.

potentially in terms of what they're changing. As it should, yeah. And, you know, what that, you know, the nighttime activity, you know, how long you're on there during the day. And I think the second question that I had looking at this was, you know, obviously they chose to settle. Maybe they saw the writing on the wall and they didn't think it was going to go well for them. And is it the first of many? Yes. Are we going to see more of this just because this has happened here? Because, I mean, there's so many other cases that are happening. Yeah, I think what it says is if you push back hard enough. Let me just say, I'm glad they settle. I'm glad they're doing these things. And someone from Facebook sent this to me is a two-hour daily time limit turning off access to our apps at night

as a default, no notification during school hours, clear prompts and notifications for teens every 15 minutes of continuous street time, new parental supervision control so parents can decide how their teens use the app. So these are all things that are great. These are also things that should have been there a long time ago. I also, I kind of, you know, it's great for kids. and I think that we should have it. I mean, I think about my nephews who are not yet into this era yet, and it's terrifying because they're so pure, imperfect, and happy, and you don't want that to be corrupted. I also think it should happen maybe for people who are 65 plus because I think a lot of people's parents are online way too much. And sometimes I talk to my own parents, and I'm like, wait, what? Like, what did you see or what did you? Like, that's AI. That's not even real or that's not, you know, there's videos of me being used. And so I don't actually think it should only apply to children. No, no. I think that adults need this too. Yeah, there's going to be more cases like that. I think it's just easier for people to speak of agree. Like, Marsha Blackburn agrees with, you know, someone on the left on this topic,

right? Unless she wants to be governor and then she changes a little bit. But, you know, it's a really, it's a big issue for everyone. And I think it's a, you know, actually, I'm working on a new book and it's about a digital bill of rights. Like, what should we all have going forward? And one of the, this is the beginning, not the end of this. And as much as people don't want a settlement, going to trial, Facebook has unlimited options of suing and suing and appealing and appealing. And this would have taken years to get these things that need to happen on the ground, right, initially for kids. And others will follow.

That's also the other companies will follow. I mean, they're the biggest one, obviously. But it will start to set limits of what we want. Again, the government should have done this. So should Facebook many years ago, but they didn't. And so that's one of the things. and it will not end, it will not end what's happening here, which is an absolute trend, which you're seeing, again, politically, Caitlin, I mean, you're seeing, you've written,

we've talked a lot about on the show about these data centers, which to me is a proxy. How important is it the people you interview because, look, Mike Rogers changed, Abbott changed, Vivek Ramoswamy changed. What do you think the impact is going to have? I mean, not only did they change, it was a full 180. Yes, yes. And so, you know, we are, we've been interested. I call that a lie, but go ahead. Well, and I think, you know, some of the Democratic candidates who were running, you know, we had Gina Hinojosa, who's running against Abbott on the other night.

And she was saying, well, let's see if this is real, because I think if he wins reelection, and obviously this is his opponent speaking, but she said that she thought maybe he'd change back his stance, given where he was just a year ago. And I think it's incredible because speaking of crossover again, which obviously is like the dominant theme here, this is something that people on the far right and the very progressive left seem to agree. on, which is this hesitancy at best and a full-out opposition at worst for these companies against these data centers being built in their communities with no say-so, no transparency they feel on their behalf of what's happening. And we had seen these, you know, Republicans, in most cases, ushering in these giants to their states to, you know, take over this. And, you know, without regard, it seems like whether or not these small communities where they're being built can keep up with, you know, what that would require it entail for resources. But I mean,

with, you know, Kathy Hockel imposing her moratorium, the response to that, but seeing how it is now starting to take shape and everyone is kind of shifting to this, with the exception of people like President Trump, he says it's a mistake. Yeah, so tell me that I was going to say that. Why, how come he's sticking to his guns? I mean, oddly enough, you kind of have to respect him for that. He's going to go, he's all in on AI and his whole administration is based on the bear hug. that he gave to these AI people, but he's not backing down and probably will hurt other candidates, presumably. Well, there's a lot of Republican districts where this has become a huge issue or even, I mean,

obviously we were talking about the Republican Senate seat in Ohio the other night in terms of where this stance. And so Trump is someone who has often been praised over the last decade for being so in touch with his political instincts, his base. This is an area where it doesn't seem to be the case because there is so much concern and skepticism about this. And so, I mean, I think the question is, do we get on the other side of the midterm elections this November? And this is actually a way bigger issue than people anticipated in terms of, you know, as you and I were talking about the other night, real grassroots opposition to this. It's not, you know, Michael Watley in North Carolina was saying that it's all basically ginned up and that it's being driven by outside forces. But as you were saying, that's not the case.

Well, that was Kevin O'Leary in Utah. It's just moronic. It's romantic to call these people. Chinese communist patsies. I mean, honestly, it was so weird. When Watley did that, I'm like, you, sir, first of all, it's untrue. And second of all, you're obviously not talking to your constituents because you need to talk to these people because all kinds of people are concerned. It'll be interesting to see what Trump does after if this shows proves to be a big deal, because it's about economics, really. The data centers are about economics, not about, well, it is about AI. It is. And speaking of which, Bill Gates is sounding the alarm on AI, just when tech leaders wanted to pull back on the doom scrolling and the doom saying that we're going to kill all your

jobs, in a nearly 6,000-word essay on his website, Gates warns the transition to this new AI era will be one of the most turbulent times in human history, and we're not prepared for it. Gates is proposing solutions, including taxes on AI tokens and bots and reserving certain jobs for humans. He's also urging countries to collaborate on regulations specifically come for the U.S. and China to work together. He's absolutely right. Bill. Gates did acknowledge to Washington Post that people might dismiss his views given his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. He again called his interactions with Epstein a very bad mistake. It was indeed a very bad mistake, Bill. I also told him that. Talk about this because it's really,

it's an interesting thing because the tech leaders have been trying to pull back. And again, Trump is not pulling back on this, right? Not pulling back on this issue and has been best friend to AI essentially throughout this administration, including at the very beginning, putting them in the front row. And I'll just also note, MIT just put out a report recommending a fundamental rethink of higher education in the age of AI, calling for redesigned assessments, more hands-on learning and course specific rules for AI use, because AI can now do all the undergraduate courses in like four seconds, which is really amazing. So talk about this as a political issue, because one of the things that's important is there hasn't been much. Is there any plus in doing it, doing stuff around what Gates is

talking about? But I mean, talk about a holy shit. As you're reading that, it's like the call is coming from inside the house because he's saying, hi, I'm one of these industry leaders, and I'm saying that not only are my colleagues completely downplaying the concerns over this because they want to make more money, he's saying this idea that we're going to self-regulate is just not even close to having a grasp on reality. I mean, to hear that from him should be alarming to everyone. And you know, it made me think back to every time we have Bernie Sanders on the show, which is a lot of you. which is maybe once every couple of weeks, we always talk about AI with him. And he always says,

he's beating the drum on it. And he's saying, you know, no one's paying attention to this. It is going to wipe out the job force that people do not understand the impact it's going to have. And by the time we do, it's going to be too late. And so he's basically arguing in a different way than what Bill Gates is saying here, but arguing the same message. And so for Bill Gates to say, you know, my colleagues are not going to be the ones who are going to step up and handle this. And going back to the meta lawsuit that we're just talking about, I mean, we've seen what's, happened before when they are the ones who are expected to be in charge of the guidelines and the guardrails. Yeah, it's a Fox Guard and House. They have no interest in regulation whatsoever, unless it's to their

advantage or a big fat, pretty contract with the Department of Defense on AI or something like that. Okay, but then the other question is, okay, so is it up to Congress or Washington? Because we interview those people every day. And yes, Bernie Sanders is the one leading the charge on this from, you know, the people that we have on the show. But this idea that they're going to understand what they're doing and be able to do it. Like, I don't have a lot of confidence in that. All right, but do they understand how planes fly? Do they need to? We were able to manage to have many car regulations. See, to me, that's always the excuse. But it was slower, I think. That's what Bill Gates is saying is he's talking about the farming transition, you know, with agricultural

revolution and industrialization is it happened over generations. And people had time to adjust. And he's saying, I mean, what I found one of the most alarming things in here was he was saying, We don't have time for that, basically, here. That's not going to happen in the same way. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I feel like they can do it. They haven't tried in any way whatsoever, and they've been captive. And again, I wonder if Trump's embrace of them is going to have a real effect on the elections. I mean, of all the things, where would you rank tech being in that list? Of, like, voters' concerns? Yeah. I mean, I think in rural areas, the data center's backlash, the flock camera's backlash is becoming more and more of a thing. This is police who are taking pictures of people. Yeah, the AI readers of like the license plates. I mean, you know, I've seen obviously people responding to the data centers, people saying that's not well-founded, or maybe we just aren't being transparent enough about this. Or as Greg Abbott was saying, you know, they dug their own grave by not being more forthright and honest about what was happening and what people should expect.

I think that could end up being a big thing. I think obviously the economy and inflation, but they're all kind of tied together, you know, because it's making people think about what they have money for, for, what they can afford, where they're stretched thin. And then, you know, these tech giants are building these data centers in their backyards and affecting resources and water is their main concern. And I think that's, you know, is all kind of intertwined. How do you think about AI? What do you do? How do you use it? Because there was this controversy over this guy who was insulting, Scott Besson, very famous investor. He used AI for this Wall Street Journal. Yeah, his mentor. His mentor, right, exactly. Well, I think Swatbrusants has been soiling himself.

for months now, but that's just my opinion. How do you look at it yourself when you think about its use in your life or in your reporting or how you cover things? You know, in the part of Bill Gates' thing that I thought resonated was he was talking about all these ways that it could be helpful to people and not just to, you know, elites or fancy people or people who have these like, you know, cushy jobs. He was talking about how it could really affect people who are working, you know, two jobs and don't have time to deal with the paperwork for health care or for getting government benefits or applying for financial aid for college. Or it's this convoluted kind of difficult thing. You know, when I went to college, my sister had gone to college, but we were kind of navigating this

process on our own. You know, it wasn't really something. We didn't have a legacy of people who had our alumni that we knew how to consult. And so applying for financial aid was really difficult. And we didn't totally understand it, even what we were signing up for then. And talking about how that could be helpful to people now, I love. And I think that could be really, really helpful to a lot of the people I grew up with. But I think on the other side of it, it's if this happens so fast and it wipes out all these jobs before we even have time to understand the implications of it, it's scary. But I think everyone can see how it's helpful to them on a daily basis. I use it for research and for looking things up. My dad uses it. My dad sells mobile homes.

He uses it every day for random things. Wow. I didn't know your dad's sell mobile. I love a mobile home. Yes, yes, he does. The big ones, the really fancy ones. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a range, but... There's a range, yeah, there's a range. Have you ever lived in an Alabama?

Call me and I'll help you out. You know, I had a lot of family members lived in mobile homes. So I have a familiarity of mobile homes. Yeah, but I just think that that speaks to the spectrum of it, you know, that I use it every day. My dad uses it. My mom is a teacher, she uses it. It really is something that you can see how it can be helpful, but that doesn't mean that they should just run amok and everyone. Or not have worries about it for your job.

Yeah, we'll just wait and see what happens. You know what I used it for this morning? looking up. I couldn't find, my son has, is an obsession with monster trucks. I'm taking to a monster truck rally, of course. And we couldn't figure out what this one monster truck was. So I tried to find it on Google and I just couldn't, like through the imagery and I described it. I just took a picture of it, put it into Clawed, and it was like, oh, that's Tiger Reek. And I was like, thank you. And my son was like, thank you. And I was like, fantastic. And then he's in this, this weird toddler monster truck trading rink with a bunch of boys and they trade them like insane.

Like, I can see him years from now being a Scott, you know, on Wall Street trading stocks, but now he's trading monster trucks. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump breaks his endorsement losing streak. Support for the show comes from Zbiotics. Being in rough shape the day after drinks comes with the territory. It feels like it's just the contract you signed with that first drink. But what if you could change that before you even take that first sip?

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which I also use this morning in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's drinkag1.com slash pivot. Support for this show comes from Clavio. Let's set the scene. It's late. The team is tired. You've got a global launch coming up. up and your customer inbox is full. No worries, meet your new best friend, Clavio.

With one prompt, Clavio's AI agents build the whole campaign, the emails, text, WhatsApp, all in your voice, and find your next sale before you do, and nothing goes out without your okay. Plus, Clavio answers those emails in every new one still sounding like you. It does this because customer data, marketing, service analytics, and AI agents live in one place. Clavio. Idea to launch, support-handled one evening. Over 200,000 consumer brands have a best friend named Clavio. Go to K-L-A-V-I-O.com slash best friends. Caitlin, we're back with more. Donald Trump just snapped his recent losing streak with an endorsed candidates coming out on top in the latest round of Republican primaries in South Carolina. Lindsay Graham's sister, Darlene, won her primary, despite having virtually no political experience in debate, snafu over foreign policy. But Trump went all in on her, visiting South Carolina to stump for her and also tapping into his MAGA Inc. Super PAC, which he doesn't often do.

Trump also had success in Oklahoma, where his candidate won in the Republican runoff for governor. Talk a little bit about this because he also, speaking in the midterms, got a major boost from the Supreme Court this week in his push to redistrict mail and voting. Now, it was reported not quite correctly. The majority of justices said Trump could move forward with his executive order, which means plans to do it, not actually. implementing, which directs the Postal Service to help determine which voters should receive mail-in ballots. It's unclear whether it's actually an impact of midterms. A separate injunction is in place and more legal Wrangley is expected. But as Justice Brown Jackson wrote in her dissent, the ruling needlessly injects chaos and uncertainty in the upcoming midterm elections. About 30% of all ballots in the

2024 election were cast by mail. While Trump has long attacked mail in voting, he's used himself a lot. Most recently this month in Florida's GOP primary. Yeah, just a couple days ago. But what they said is if he breaks, it's like they didn't want to do pre-crime. If it's illegal, we'll call it illegal. But right now he can plan for it, essentially, which that seemed fair, honestly. But icky, but fair. Talk about these two things of where his power is right now.

Well, on the executive order, yeah, they were basically saying for now, this can move forward. But the lawsuit, it wasn't about the merits. The ruling wasn't about the merits of the case. It was more about the timing and when they were sued over it. So we'll see what happens there because, I mean, obviously, you know, we're 10 weeks out from the midterms. The closer you get, the harder it is to implement those changes, agree with them or disagree. On Darlene Graham, though, I mean, we went into Tuesday night not knowing what really was going to happen in that Senate runoff because obviously Republicans in South Carolina, you know, are kind of divided on this. I'm not kind of divided.

They are divided on it because so many people wanted to run for this seat, but the president had self-enointed, or had anointed Darlene Graham after her brother's death. So suddenly this summer. And so going into last night, the one takeaway is we've been following Trump's endorsement power, you know, whether or not he can bring these candidates over the line if he's not on the ballot, it showed that he still does have that power because he basically elevated someone who until a couple of weeks ago was not well known, who did have some debate mishaps, whose policy decisions and stances are not really well defined. And he basically elevated her in a way to where she was successful last night against Ralph Norman. And so, And it's not like Ralph Norman is someone who is not this massive ally of the presidents. He's the person who, last time we had him on this show, we asked him about the text message he said after January 6th, where he said he wanted the president to declare martial law. Yes, I recall. And I asked him about that. And he told me his only regret was that he spelled it M-A-R-S-H-A-L, not M-A-R-T-I-L. So this person is a very close ally of the presidents, to put it lightly.

Yeah. But obviously, Darlene Graham was pulled across the line. likely is going to be a senator till 2032 at least. Why did he do it? Why her versus Storm and Norman? I think it seemed, as we were reporting on this, when he came out and endorsed her to have the seat just for a little bit in that temporary period until the runoff,

I talked to White House officials who said, it's just a tribute to Lindsay, it's his dear friend that he lost suddenly, and she's going to be there kind of, you know, in just a placeholder role. They did not think it was going to be for the long haul. These are White House officials who speak to the president. And so we kind of said, okay, and then we got closer to the runoff, and it was clear that the president thought that Darlene Graham should run for the seat, really, and now, obviously, is the nominee.

And so I think there are questions of what that's going to look like once she's in the Senate. She said she disagreed to their brother only on immigration that she would have gone further, but wasn't able to articulate, you know, policy on Taiwan, for example, which could be a real issue soon. And so I think it did speak, though, to the president's political power. But the other part of this is, and that's what the White House will tell, they had to spend a lot of money from his super PAC that does not, has been pretty stingy, actually, with Republicans. They spent $800,000 here. He did a virtual rally. He did an in-person rally. I mean, the president put a lot of effort into a very safe Republican seat and ensuring that his candidate got across the line.

And I think that's because his endorsement power has been tested in other places, and he didn't want it to be tested here. Well, there's a lot of coverage about his power waning rather considerably. Like, and, you know, he definitely had to heavy this one, right? He had to shove it through in a way that he never had to do. Which for South Carolina is pretty remarkable in and of itself. Yeah. So how are people looking about his power? There's all kinds of people leaving the administration, you know.

I think everyone wants to get out ahead of the Democratic potential subpoenas in the midterms because most people. What was interesting also about that Darlene race is Polymarket and Calci did get it right, polling did not, which was interesting. They were more accurate in terms of the final numbers, maybe a little bit too high for them and way too low for the polls, which is interesting. That's a whole crisis right now in political coverage. But then again, they got a bunch of other things wrong, Polly Market did in Michigan and other places in Wisconsin. What is the power now? How are people feeling with people leaving? And you know, you've covered this administration since when, like since the last, the first one, right?

Forever. Forever. You and Maggie Averman. Maggie, she's covered Trump longer than me, but yeah, I've been there for all the admin years. You know, in terms of his power, it is a real question, I think. And, you know, this November, it'll obviously be a test to that, but also it's a test of just, you know, political conventional wisdom, which is that the president, you know, after his first years in office, his party loses pretty badly when it comes to these congressional elections.

We'll see what shapes out here. I mean, I think with the redistricting and so much that has changed and just since February alone with the war, we don't really have a good understanding. We don't know. And given how wrong the polls have been and they're just a snapshot, I do think we don't really know what's going to happen in November. Everyone kind of assumes they know, but I think we have to wait and really see what this looks like. And so I think for the president, though, in the way he views his endorsement power, which, you know, last night he was calling Darlene Graham an underdog saying, like he was touting his own power and acknowledging that she has not this strong political figure in South Carolina. For him, I think it's also a test of he came into office in the second term with so much power and able to bend corporate executives, congressional Republicans, law firms, pretty much anybody to his will. Well, but not Caitlin Collins. But go ahead. Well, true. But hopefully that's true for anybody. Can't get a smile out of you, Caitlin. I can't do it. Yeah, well, I mean, that's a whole other thing. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's a whole other thing. I'll ask him about that later.

But I think that, you know, for him to be in a situation where there are people who push back on him and he is going to be in a different world in Washington, should the midterms not go his way, will be a very different time of the Trump presidency. Is there a prediction? I think he'll cooperate. That's my feeling. Like, I think he knows, right? Presumably.

With what? With the investigations? I think he'll go whatever way the wind blows. I think, no, I don't think he'll be, I think he'll, I mean, I think those meetings between, Jared Kushner and Hakeem Jeffries says a lot. They're going to, he's going to try to recover himself in a different way or reinvent himself in some other way. I also think, I mean, this is my prediction.

This isn't, you know, I mean, this is what I've heard from reporting. It's an estimated, it's an educated prediction, but it's, I mean, we'll have to, you know, you can't really predict too much in political reporting. You have to wait and see. I don't think that they will handle congressional oversight the way they did the first time. And I think that the president hated being impeached so much, even though he says, He expects it and thinks it'll happen again this time. I think that there will be way more pushback from the DOJ

and from the White House, even than what we saw the last time around. And so I think it will be a very different Washington, should the Democrats win, and should they try to conduct these investigations? And I don't think it's totally clear that we'll actually see it in the same way we saw the first time. So dig in even more? Because he's pretty, oh, wow, interesting.

See, I think he's going to roll right over. I think he's a, I'm not going to say what I think he is, but I think he's a bully, and he gets bunch of the nose he's going to stop. I don't know, maybe not. That's why he's doing all this, I'm going to tear down the Kennedy Center, foot stomping, this and that. I just think he just, he knows his time is limited. I think he's very aware. He's very lizard-like in that way. He knows, you know, he has a very good sense of where the wind is blowing in a lot of ways. One thing on an off note about the Kennedy Center, I rewatched Dolly Parton's tribute from 2006 last night,

and it was a reminder of how great the Kennedy Center honors are and why they're so important. They are. Because they really did provide us with like this moment of her, of Reba coming out and telling this great story about when she met Dolly. And it reminded me of just how great, you know, everyone like criticizes Washington institutions. That's one that's this lovely moment for the entire country, I think. Do you know, 24-year-old Kara Swisher covered it every year when I was at the Washington Post. Mm-hmm. That's incredible.

I was the reporter for this. I was in the style section 23, 24. Wait, I didn't know this. I love this. Yes, I was the reporter for the Washington Post. I went to all the breakfast. I covered it. John Denver, I remember doing, and I used to sit there and get my little quotes and write up to Kennedy Center honors. I loved it. What a great assignment. Oh, it was so good for a young reporter. You're like, I'll do the Kennedy Center honors. Don't worry, guys. They actually will send the young lady to it. Like, we'll send the young people to it because all the older people are like, I'm not going out. Like that kind of thing. Yeah, it's like a Sunday night. Yeah. It goes super late. Yeah. And by the way, the Kennedy Center for all, it's, I'm not a big fan of the look of it, honestly. But I just what's happening there is ridiculous. It's kind of.

ridiculous, weird, weird flex. Like, why would you flex on that? Like, it just seems silly. I get the White House part, I do, in a weird way, but I don't get the other thing. Over and under, whether he's going to get the ballroom built? Yes, no? Well, I mean, there's a giant hole in the ground right now, so they're definitely working on it. And I don't, I don't think, I can't, I just can't see them half building it and then stopping. And I do think the question, I mean, maybe it's a silly question. It's obviously not substantive and not the number one question, but should a Democrat win after, it is a real question of what they will do with. Right. Smaller ballroom.

The ballroom would, will be more difficult because it is. Smaller ballroom if it's not fully built. Smaller. Yeah, I mean, going into the White House every day, and I've covered the White House for 10 years, seeing these giant cranes, you know, it's totally, it's changed the way we cover the president because his departures don't happen where, you know, chopper talk. That doesn't happen anymore on the South Lawn because we can't go out there because there's so much construction and it's taken up such a big part of it.

And they're also building the helipad. that he wants done by the time Chinese President Xi Jinping comes next month. There's a lot happening back there. You know what I do love is Arlington Cemetery is one of the most hallowed places that you can visit. And it's beautiful. I mean, brought me to tears when I first went

as a 24-year-old. The arch, I think, will obstruct part of the view of the cemetery from my understanding of how it is, which I think, you know, is a miss for people who want to just go to the cemetery and pay their respects. That's a ridiculous idea. It's a beautiful place. It was Robert Ely's estate. It was his plantation, which is incredible to think about. It's a beautiful. You know, my dad is not buried in. My dad was in the military. It's not buried in there. But, you know, it's just one of the most beautiful places. Yeah, but you probably think about them every time you go there. Every time. Every time. All right, Caitlin, let's go on a quick break when we come back, a golf ad that missed the mark. Support for the show comes from hymns. If weight loss has felt like a losing battle, now could be your chance to change.

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raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. Caitlin, we're back with more news. Now on to the lovely ad from the sports world, golf-focused media company Good Good Golf,

and the equipment maker Callaway have apologized after an ad for their golf club showed a male golf a little shoving a woman to the ground after she reached for his club. The video was intended as a parody of the horror movie obsession. Let me tell you, it is not one. But drew backlash for making light of violence against women. By the way, in that movie, the woman was murderous, okay?

She wasn't like, she was murderous. Good Good removed the video and apologize, and Callow, I acknowledged that it approved the ad before it posted, which should have never happened. Of course, mistakes were made is not really a good excuse for, like, beaten up on a woman. But Good Good plans to donate the campaign's proceeds to an organization supporting women, no thanks,

though they're still in the process of researching which one to give it to. Talk a little bit about a room of people approving an ad like this. And I would love you, one of the things, I know you've talked a lot about the smile thing and the attacks that President Trump does on you, which are very complicated, I think, in a lot of ways. But one of the things I said when I was on the view, when I was arguing with Sunny Hosten over this, and she's like, everyone in the room should say something or she should say something back. I said, absolutely not. She's handling exactly right, not having an emotion, doing her job, asking the question.

If she makes it about her or a back and forth of the president, it's not what she should do. Talk a little, because this was, because the Texan you are sexist, there's just no other way around it. Talk a little bit about this ad and I assume that's why you don't respond and why you respond the way you do, which is to be a professional. Yeah, I mean, first off on the ad, I'm not in the golf world really at all. I was a car girl in college to make money, but other than that, that's probably the extent to my knowledge. It's like the person who you're in the cart that's loaded up with beer, water, sandwiches, and you drive backwards on the course. and you're basically like the rolling concession stand. But the golfers are always really glad to see you

because if you're out on a big course in Alabama in July, it's hot. And I would always try to be like the best car curl. Like I would try, I would whip around that course. I would always remember everyone's orders. It was actually a great job. So you didn't run behind a golf cart, like say Natalie Harp, right? No, I was driving the golf cart. Okay.

And it was huge and heavy. And you worked like 14-hour days and I would get home and be totally exhausted. It was good. It was a good college job and I highly recommend it. But when I saw that ad and then the response, it's always the response that like somehow makes it worse. It's like people really don't know how to won. The fact that it got approved and people thought this is hilarious is insanity. But then the response, the mistakes were made, were researching, you know, the best place to donate this money to. I mean, it's just. just cringe-worthy. You think, how does it get that far? And I understand, you know, sometimes people make mistakes, bad judgment calls. That seemed like a pretty obvious one, where obviously, like, did they ask any women what they thought about that ad before they posted it? No. But honestly, did they ask any men? Like, my son saw it. He was like,

are you kidding me? So why do you think it is, is that sort of a thing of Trump, like, manly man or something? What do you, how do you attribute it to? I think with the president it's more of a power thing. I think that it's, you know, moments where we're coming into the Oval Office to what I was just saying about how people treat him and, you know, we've watched it. You see all the cabinet meetings or with executives who come in there and they each take turns praising him saying he's the first president who's ever done X, Y, and Z for them. That is an environment that he is used to and has been for some time and doesn't face a lot of questioning or pushback or opposition. And I mean, even his own age. devise, you know, when they disagree with him, how to bring that up to him and how to talk to him about it. And so I think that, you know, when people come in the Oval Office and the way they've changed the press corps, you know, there's one or two annoying people in there who were asking him questions that he doesn't like, even if they're pretty straightforward questions and they're quoting other officials like with my colleague Kristen Holmes the other day, quoting John Ossoff and how the

White House responded to that, which just was bizarre. I think that they just, it's the questioning that they don't like in and of itself. It's not, it doesn't even really matter who it's coming from. And that's why I don't respond or react. It is always women. It's almost always women, which is interesting. Well, and that's why I don't respond or react because I don't, I truly feel this and I don't think that it's about me and I don't want to make it about me. And I want to, you know, I'm asking a question because I want an answer to it or because I'm trying to point something out with the question itself. And so I never want to get bogged down and some kind of back and forth. or argument or fight that becomes about me because I want it to stay focused on the question. And truly that has been my mentality on this for 10 years now. And it's never surprising when this happens to me. It truly isn't anymore. White House Correspondents dinner in the Oval Office,

any of these moments. And so, you know, I'm there to do my job. Do you think the other reporters should say something? I don't either. I think they should repeat your question, perhaps. That's the only thing I can think of. Yeah, I think following up on questions, is important and taking those moments.

Or, you know, I remember there was a press conference during the pandemic where the president would come out and do the briefings himself. And Peter Alexander was asking a question, and Trump was going off on Peter about Peter, not about the question. And then when he called on me, I kind of said, you know, people are sitting at home watching this,

trying to figure out, do they send their kids to school? Can they go to work? Is it safe to get these groceries and bring them into their home? You know, in those early days, it's, no one wants to hear about this, attacking a reporter. They want you who's been speaking with these officials and the doctors to give them guidance or answer their questions or like, you know, some kind of, you know, national instruction of what we should be doing in this moment. And I think that's, you know, I just think it's always

important to return to the substance. One time I was on a show and my son was in the green room and I one of the guests after me said, you, your mom's really smart, but she should smile more to my son, said this to my son. Oh, boy. I know. And my son was like, like, my son goes, are you like 150 years old? Because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And I was like, parenting well done. Like, I know, I was like so proud. Oh, my God.

That must have been such a fulfilling moment for you. Yeah, it's the frat bro who did it too, by the way. He's like, don't talk to my mom. Don't talk to my mom. Don't talk to my mom. And women don't shouldn't have to smile. Also, anyone who would say that to Caroswisher's son. Well, yes, I know that exactly.

Um, talk to a young reporter who that happens to, explain what's going through your head. for just a second, and what advice you would give them when that happens? Because I get it from the tech pros, too. Yeah, and you know, it's easier to brush off the longer you've done it, because I think, you know, the first time it happens to you, it's obviously jarring. Because, you know, being a reporter in and of itself, and I talk to a lot of young people who are graduating who want to be in a reporting field, it can be intimidating because by nature, what you're doing is you are sometimes, if you're covering things critically or questioning what's happening, which you should be, if it's a taxpayer-funded project or official, has always been my position on this,

is you're inherently kind of having this, like, you know, at-odds relationship where you're asking questions, they don't really want you to ask, much less they don't want to answer. And so, you know, as a reporter, you really do kind of have to, you have to accept that you're the one person in that room who they view is like the skunk at the garden party, and they don't like what you're saying. And you have to really, you can't do it to be liked, And you can't go in there thinking, oh, they're going to love my question or think it's so smart. Because one, they're never going to be happy with what you're asking. I mean, unless you're saying, why is this so great? Why is this such an amazing idea?

Fantastic hairdoes, sir. Right. Like, people will just never be happy with that. And so I think as a young reporter, you just got to be ready and, you know, go in there with a resolve. And I also think this is my, always been my thing, being prepared, knowing what you're talking about, having follow-up questions ready, knowing what that person's probably going to say in response to your question will give you more confidence going to any of those exchanges than anything else. You really, I mean, it's like you've got to build it up yourself and you will over time,

but being prepared always made me feel better because I would, you know, no matter where this goes. You're ready with a follow-up. You did that with the Epstein question, you know, you were like, but this happened. It's still hard. It's a very difficult thing, but I have to say you have shown incredible poised in doing so. Most people think that, and they can't believe. I would, I'd not be able to. I'd be like, can you fucking step off, sir? Like, I would be, I just couldn't do it. That's why I couldn't cover it. I just, I lost my ability to not talk, slap back at people. Anyway, I appreciate it.

All right, Caitlin, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, joined thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. Wayfair's Labor Day clearance is on now.

Right now at Wayfair, you can get up to 70% off everything home. Shop Wayfair's Labor Day clearance now through September 7th at Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. Apple dropped some new upgraded computers this week, like a new Mac studio for AI stuff, a new Mac mini for AI stuff, with new faster chips, also for AI stuff. Also this week on The Vergecast,

we give a dorm room, a smart tech makeover. We get advice on what laptops are worth buying now that everything is more and more expensive, and we break down what happened with this week's big meta-settlement about kids' safety. That's this week on the Vergell. Wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Caitlin, let's hear a prediction.

Okay, so I was, my first question on this was, what should my prediction be in the realm of? And I guess the answer is anything. So I can truly pick anything that I want to predict. Anything. Aliens showing up, et cetera. I wish. Please hurry up if they're coming. I know.

Like we're waiting. I think my prediction is going to be about college football because we're getting closer and closer to kick off for Alabama. All right. And it is. For people to know, she's an enormous. So is Tim Cook. Yes. Well, he went to Auburn, though, so we're rivals.

Okay. Yeah, right, right. But not really. I mean, it's Auburn. My sister went to Auburn, too. She doesn't like when we say that. Yeah. And you know what's funny is anytime I wear, like,

orange or something on air, which, you know, I live in Washington and New York. Like, I don't think it's that crazy. Someone from Alabama is like, why is she wearing Auburn colors tonight, y'all? Oh, wow. It's just so funny that that is truly how we think in Alabama. I think my prediction is we're going to go

hopefully 10 and 2 this season. What does that mean? 10 wins, two losses. And I'm sure one of them is going to be some loss that leaves us all just scratching our heads. Who would you least like to lose against? I believe it's Michigan, correct? Well, that's, I mean, we'll see if we play them in the playoffs and what that looks like. I mean, I think, you know, I hate to lose to Georgia.

That's a big one for us lately. And one of my colleagues is a big Georgia fan. And so, yeah, I mean, it's just, it is the best time of the year. It is the most agonizing time of the year. You're really into it. People don't realize. You go down there, right? You go to the game. Yeah, yeah. I go to a bunch of games. I try to go to as many as possible. It's tough. There's like one flight to Birmingham in the morning to make kickoff. And I've cut it pretty close sometimes after doing the show on Friday nights. So I'm hoping we're going to go 10 and 2. That's my optimistic outlook. I'm hoping we'll make the playoffs. And yeah, I mean, it's tough. I love it so much. It really is this bittersweet feeling. And I was home actually the other day driving in Alabama. listening to the FM radio, and Paul Feinbaum, who is my favorite sports talk show host that I

listened to all the time growing up, listening to him and these people call in Carrie, you would love it. And they just argue with him about college football and the state of it and what's going on. I love it. Yeah, I was bringing that together, although there was that disturbing report this week about NFL players. They've got to do something. So scary. They've got to do something because it starts early on. You know, I didn't let my kids play football because of that.

Yeah, I think it's, I mean, as a parent, it's a huge question because it's terrifying. One in four, right? One in four? Yeah, one and four. And it's, it's no more scarier than for athletes themselves, you know, who have to reckon with this talent that they have, this opportunity to have personal success in a way that so few people can. And, you know, at times can be a huge deal for them. And also with their own personal health and longevity. And you're asking, you know, 18-year-olds to make this decision. Or earlier. My son played touch football, which I was fine with, because it was not, you know, and he was good. They were good. Both of them were big guys. And I just, I ran, I think it was Roger Goodell once. And he's like, oh, and I had my boys with me like, oh, your boys playing football. I said, not if I want them to be, you know, mentally disabled by 33. And he was like, okay. And he was like, okay. Nice meeting you. I was like, oh, okay. Just, you know. But I felt bad because I agree with you. There's something very beautiful about football games. and, you know, games and sports and the community, it brings, bringing it back to the alley. There's a community of something around. Yeah, but you want to protect these athletes. Yeah, I mean, that's what I care about.

There's technological ways to do it. There is. They just have to start to get serious about it. Speaking of AI, there's all manner of things they could do. Yeah, and you want to protect these kids who are, you know, giving their all in the field, and it's just, it is so special to watch. It is. Yeah, it is.

It's a great thing. My prediction, I make a very short one. Is it also about Alabama football? No, not at all. I don't watch sports. Well, let me just say, my prediction is I can't wait for the season finale of Furious, which is speaking of angry women, is amazing. It's a show on Hulu.

But my prediction actually has to do with settlement that meta made. This was led by Rob Bond as someone who you just interviewed. I think Paramount doesn't settle, like stop the games. they're playing with all these press releases, personal attacks, weird leaks and things like that, and they're pretending it's not them. It is them leaking all this stuff. They need to settle, and Bonta has shown his ability to settle when it makes a reasonable kind of thing. This guy is really someone to watch, and is very clever and spicy, and he's got a lot, he's got a lot of leverage here, and they should, if they're not completely idiotic, they have to stop playing game,

as he said and settle. And they should, and they will. I think they must, and if they don't, it's over. And so I, I, that's my prediction is that they, somehow, someone's going to slap the sense into these people and do the right, do a thing, because this guy is, this, this success with meta is going to make a big difference in a lot of stuff that he's doing. And how did you find him? You found him. He's, he's something. He's something else, right? Well, I mean, you know more about all of the discussions and what's happening behind the scenes than I do because you cover it every day. I mean, from our perspective, you know, we had the Attorney General Law as, you know, from a reporter's perspective, as an interview guest,

because it is a genuine news story. And I think even though CNN is involved in it, because obviously it's our parent company, Warner Brothers, you know, we have to still approach it as a new story and still cover it as such. And so we had him on. And I thought it was interesting because he was so, you know, we asked if he had evidence about them leaking, but he was so visceral on his reaction of how he viewed how they've handled this. And I think I said to him at one point, you know, it doesn't sound like you really want to settle with them or that you're in the environment for that, I guess I should say,

given where things had broken down to at that moment. And so obviously we'll see what happens, but he seemed, my understanding from his appearance on the show the other night was that he seemed very confident of his position. He has a good position. And so obviously we will see where it goes from here. Yeah, some of it's saber-rattling, some of it's this and that, but 100%.

that's who leaked. I can tell you that. But it was really, actually, his office is tight as a tick, I have to say. I've tried my, various ways to get in there. And they're much tighter in Paramount is a leaky sieve of a place. Sorry, David. David is always surprised by that, but it is. All media companies are leaky sieves. And they are excellent for reporters to do it. But it was a very good interview you did with him. It was really interesting. Anyway, I suspect there'll be a settlement because, come on, stop it. Stop it, boys. That's enough. That's enough of that. You want to care about people's jobs and about chaos and things like that. Well, football season goes through January if we met the playoffs, the national championship. So we'll see whose prediction bears out first. All right. Okay. We'll do that. I think yours is probably, well, you know, you can't knock sense into people. Well, now you got to room for Alabama. All right. All right. I'll move for Alabama t-shirt next time. No, I can't because my son's at Michigan. Oh. Oh. Are they, they're a rival, right? They're a big ride. They're like good. I mean. I'm going to Michigan game on parents weekend. I'm sorry to give you that information. You're going to have so much fun.

I mean, I love college football period, so you're going to have so much fun. But Michigan did beat us in Nick Sabin's last game before he retired. So I'm still taking that one personally. Yeah, I don't really care who wins, honestly. Caitlin, I don't. I don't. But go blue. That statement pains me.

Go blue. Someone, a friend of mine who I've converted to being an Alabama football fan, he was in Greece. And he said he saw a guy wearing an Auburn shirt the other day, and he goes, F. Auburn. And the guy was so caught off guard by this, like, random person in Greece going after him. I was like, I love that we have spread it and we have got an army of Alabama fans out there. I'll consider it. I don't really.

I'm not a very good fan in terms of. The only person I'm a fan of right now is Dolly friggin' parton. What a legend. And again, Dolly, you are. What a life well lived. And what a saint. Yeah, and also what a great reminder of how to live your life. You know, and the fact that we got to exist on the same planet as her is so special to me.

That's exactly what I thought. That's what I thought. We got to exist on the same planet. Yeah, like how cool is that? We share the same existence as Dully Gordon. It's true. It's amazing. No fuck's given in the most kind way possible in the curve of kindness.

That's such a good encapsulation actually of her. I love that. Yeah, but lots of fucks given too, which is anyway. All right, on the things that count. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your question about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Pivot. But Caitlin, thank you so much. You're wonderful. I really think you're one of my, I got my mother to watch you. She was a Fox. She's a Fox News person. It's always on her thing and I change it. And she goes, put that nice, I'm sorry to objectify. She goes, that very good looking young woman. I love her. She's really tough. Your mom is allowed to objectify me. I know. I'm fine because she's so superficial. Well, I love that. And thank you for having me. It's been fulfilling in for Scott. You could have a career in podcast. You may think about it. You're pretty good. You're pretty good. I give you.

And that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman. Ernie Ender. Engineer this episode. Neshad Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform and also watch The Source with Caitlin Collins on CNN. It's every night at 9 o'clock Eastern. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer.

That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at PMCF1. walk.ca.