Pivot - Pope's Pushback, Orban's Concession, and Bessent's Anthropic Warning

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Kara and Scott break down Trump lashing out against the Pope and right-wing media figures, and his next moves for Iran after peace talks fail. Then, Viktor Orban loses in Hungary, and his concession is a surprising win for democracy. Plus, Eric Swalwell drops out of the California governor’s race and Congress, Scott Bessent warns banks about Anthropic’s Mythos model, and Hollywood heavyweights push back on the Paramount–Warner Bros. deal.Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠.Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠.Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠.Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's free for iOS users. Aren't we adorable? I know, we're adorable. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway.

You're back. I'm back. That's right. Yeah. Did you have a good time off? Did you have a nice time? Yeah, I didn't do a whole lot. But, yeah, it was really nice.

I was in Florida, a lot of walks on the beach with my dog. dogs. Actually, I got kind of bored, which was a lovely and strange feeling. Well, we missed you. We had some good hosts, but no one is you. Let's just say. Got it. Go on. No, no one is you. That's what people said to me when they come up to me at Coachella. They're like, no one is you. I think that was Justin Bieber's first song at Coachella. I liked what he did there. I don't know a lot of people criticize them, but I like to. I can't say I went. I have finally figured out Coachella. The key is to go during that weekend. I hang out in my friend's house.

watch the day I go by, have beers, work out, and then everybody goes to the festival. I go and get Mexican food at a dive place and have some margaritas at the bar. And then I go to the after parties. I actually don't go to the festival. Have you gone? Did you go? No, you weren't there, were you? Yeah, I was at Cachalas weekend. Oh, my God, you're kidding. Yeah.

No, the arrested adolescence tour continues, Karen. Oh, wow. Amazing. In and out Burger, both days. I know. I saw those pictures. That was nice. People, like, insulted you because they're Christian-y, but I don't care. They're fantastic burgers. I'm sorry. Oh, if Jesus is coming back, he's coming to an in and out. We'll get to Jesus in a minute, Jesus Christ, as they say.

I just want to say thank you so much for showing up to the premiere of my show. Scott showed up and interviewed me for my first, the premiere of my show, Kara Swisher wants to live forever on CNN, and you did a great job. You came prepared. I was expecting lack of coverage. I learned from the best. Yeah, I know. Well, you did a good job, ask good questions.

And it was a fun party. You stayed long, too. You never, I was sort of shocked to look over and there you were still. Well, two words. First word, open, second bar. Yes, anytime for you. And there was some important people there that all fuck. I should talk to some of these people. Yeah, there were.

And Jess Tarloff showed up. That was very nice. And a bunch of friends. All my work-wise. Yeah. Yeah, it was really fun. She's great. And her new book's coming out.

She'll have me her cover. It looks really. And the thing that struck me about your show was, um, you should do a shout-out. The production values were fantastic. Yes. Really beautiful cinematography. Ever Wonder was the producer.

The images from the cemetery, where you went to your dad's grave, it all was, it was beautifully shot. Yeah, I got to say, TV at times has got it. Like, there is, like, they don't do, like, YouTube doesn't really,

unless you do it as a television production. And you got cock blocked by J.D. Vance. I did. Explain what happened. Well, the show was supposed to premiere. I had a party in D.C., by the way. And they had breaking news to announce that J.D. Vance had accomplished

absolutely nothing in Iran. I know. And they had to delay, Karras premiere. And I thought, that is so rich. That is just so deliciously ironic. We don't care. We don't care.

I think Peter Thiel called them and said, announce it now. I hate that bitch. Announce it now. No, no, it's fine. Whatever. I'm going to L.A. this week, and I'm going to be on Bill Maher as the main guest, which I'm very excited about. Going to see Gwyneth Paltrow.

Susan Bennett, who's my Sherpa there, I would text me. I thought, oh, they're going to ask me to be on again. She said, I just thought you'd want to know Kara Swisher's going to be on. I'm like, oh, yeah. Thanks. Oh, that's great, I mean. Yeah. That's great. Anyway, I'm doing a lot in L.A. I'm interviewing Clara Wu, who is one of the owners of the Brooklyn Nets and Liberty and stuff about sports. So I'm doing a lot. I'm doing a lot. I'm going to do a lot in Llemy. And I'm going to see for the weekend my beautiful son, Louis Swisher and his lovely girlfriend, Ivy.

Where do you stay when you're in Lowe? I'm into hotels here. At Brooks House, of course, Brooks. I always stay at friends. I don't like hotels as much. How do you yell at people, though, when your breakfast is late? Like, where's the gym? I don't. I don't. She has everything.

You know, Brooke, like, gets me everything that I like and then makes me a nice egg. So she's excellent. She's an excellent Airbnb host. Anyway, and I love her dogs. She has two Frenchies now. Anyway, we've got to get to things. Let's get to things. There's a lot of news.

Jesus Christ. There was so much while you're away. I think we've forgotten that stuff. But Pope Leo says he has no fear of the Trump administration after the president lashed out at him on true social Sunday night. Trump called the Pope, quote, weak on crime and, quote, terrible on foreign policy in his post. Neither one of those are his jobs. He accused Pope Leo of, quote, catering to the radical left and then told him to focus on, quote, being a great Pope, not a politician. Trump later posted an AI-generated

image of himself as Jesus, though it looks like he might have deleted it and told reporters that he thought the image was him as a doctor. Oh my God, he's such a liar. It's not just the Pope. Trump called out Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Candace Owens, and Alex Jones over there. criticism of the war last week, Alex Jones responded, we are witnessing the Epstein presidency. He's a nod to Scott Galloway there, that Candice Owens said that it may be time to put Grandpa up in a home. We'll get to the latest on the war, but first, talk about this alienation of everybody. It seems demented. He was tweeting all last night from like 9 p.m. to 4 a.m., like regularly. Thoughts? I don't see the strategy here. And granted, I think Trump has had an ability

to zag when everyone else is zigging. I think. I thought one of the greatest insights in political history was when Trump told somebody, everybody claims to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. He said the key is to be fiscally liberal and socially conservative. And it struck me that that was sort of a genius political positioning. But I failed to see how alienating a core constituency, the Republican Party, and that is evangelical Christians, by taking on the Pope. I mean, people say Social Security is the third rail. I do think the American public is coming to grips with the fact that the wealthiest generation of the history of the planet, probably shouldn't be taking $1.2 trillion from the most

anxious obese and depressed generation in history, and that's people under the age of 40. But that used to be the third rail, but I would argue kind of the most obvious third rail. You don't go after the, I mean, don't fuck with El Papa. So I just, even though I always think there's certain political instincts that the president has that I don't see, that end up being less wrong than I thought and sometimes right, I do not see any upside here. Also an articulate Pope, a very articulate and younger Pope. Outstanding, smart, measured, kind of everything you would want in a leader. What are your thoughts? I don't get this at all. I think this guy is incredibly popular. I don't understand why. I think he's jealous of his popularity and his

intelligence. And, you know, this guy's been speaking out as, as Pope sometimes do on wars. You know, Francis did the same thing. And we don't want to see all this war. And the way you talk about, like last week when you weren't here, talking, you know, the decimation of a civilization in just as a tactic. It was just demented. It was demented. And I think he was responsibly talking out the way a Pope might do. And he has been very firm on war. Like, let's stop it. Let's stop the war thing. He's still, you know, awfully conservative, even though you don't think about it. But he see, I suppose he seems liberal because he says no war. I don't know how that is no war. And he dovetails, by the way, with the media, with the maga media, which is very against the war.

Like not just Marjorie Chelle Green, another one. There's bunches of them that are now Tim Poole. All of them are sort of, I mean, to an extent, Rogan, but he, of course, you know, high-fived him at the whatever wrestling stupid thing they were at. But I think, you know, they're like, Maga Media doesn't speak full of MAGA. I'm like, they kind of do. They kind of, there's millions and millions and millions of followers, and they're growing like crazy.

And so I'm not so sure picking a fight with these. mouthy people from Alex Jones to Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson, Candace, and Owen, and Marjorie Taylor Green's a particularly good idea at this moment. But I don't know. I think he, as I said, I think he's suffering deeply, cognitively, and he's losing it. That's my feeling. Just looking at the tweets, it seems to me. Yeah, he does feel like he's lashing out. I don't, yeah, I'm having trouble. Susie Wiles has ended up being more genius and crazy. This just feels crazy. It feels Yeah, she is breast cancer, you know, she may not be there as present. She says she is, but it feels like she's left the building.

Oh, I didn't know. I don't know who's around him. And then, look, Marco Rubio looked like a loser at that W-W, whatever it was happening, the MF, whatever, the fight. I got invited to UFC fight at the White House. Yeah. You have to go. No, there's no way I'm going. Oh, come on.

With a little camera on your head, that would be so good. I find UFC fights disturbing. I really don't like seeing young men who are in peak physical. shape beating each other up like that. Even boxing, which I think is, I can see, in some ways, such, so incredible. Even that disturbs me now as I get older. I went to a lot of boxing matches my grandfather when I was like, not a lot, but enough. Wrestling, he was into wrestling, boxing.

My brother, Jeff, went to a lot of them. Anyway, he was a big sports and wrestling and boxing nut, but, and was a promoter of a lot of stuff up in New Pennsylvania. Cole and boxing and you turned out lesbian. What a shock. What a shocker. I know. How would that happen?

I think Trump's losing. It's in the batter, you homophobic. Anyway, I think I'm just here people now going to do with your environment. Yes, yes. I think it had to do. Exactly. I'm a lesbian because my grandfather took me to boxing. So as of this recording, by the way, the point is it's all about what's happening in Iran and with Iran.

And the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz is underway with more than 15 U.S. warships in place to support the out. Oh, my God. This feels like a bad idea. Trump announced the blockade plan on Sunday accusing Iran of world extortion. He'd know. His threats came after peace talks ended, as you know, without a resolution, which often happens. By the way, I give J.D. Vance a hard time, but these things take time, obviously. He was there leading negotiations to the U.S. and said Iran chose not to accept our terms. I think there was issues around the nuclear proliferation stuff. Trump is also reported looking at limited military strikes in Iran in addition to the blockade. It's really hard for him because he's stuck, as you said, he's painted himself into a corner many times. They're not budging. And also, I want to note, we've seen a big new type of target in this war, big tech data centers last month. Amazon data centers in the UAE and Bahrain were damaged in drone strikes,

and Iran has been threatening to attack U.S. companies in the Middle East. I don't know what to say here. What a mess. He just can't, like, get himself out of this situation since these people aren't budging, even if they're on their back foot, they still have advantage in a very, in a weird way the way Ukraine does with Russia. And, you know, it's very hard to unseat them.

So I actually think the illuminating analogy here is the WGA strike. And that is key, Robert McNamara said this back in the Vietnam War that to defeat an enemy, you have to really understand them. And also, you have to understand the incentives at play. And so going back to the WGA strike, they said, all right, we're going to shut We're going to go on strike, which means your ability to create content has been cut off.

But what they didn't realize is the most powerful person on the other side of the table was Netflix. And Netflix could look around and say, okay, RQ, you know, people's playlist is two or three years deep. I could watch Netflix for the next two or three years and still not get through my playlist. Linear TV, especially late night TV, which people tune in every night. They're not interested in watching Jimmy Kimmel run down the day's news from, two years ago, the other streaming networks who had not been spending $18 billion a year, who had spent $10,2 billion a year, their pool was really shallow. So the most powerful person on the other side of the table had an incentive to not come

to an agreement. And the WGA never recognized that they were negotiating against themselves because the other side would pretend to care and not offend anybody and make sure this strike went on for as long as possible to seat advantage to Netflix as everybody else. All that happened coming out of that strike was the most powerful player on the other side of the table, garnered and registered additional value. And this is exactly what's going on here.

And to a certain extent, J.D. Vance, they poured honey on them and sent them hunting for bears because the reality is the incentive was to draw out the talks for two or three weeks, have an opportunity to maybe rearm, regroup your missile launch capability, lay some more mines in the Strait of Hormuz. But their incentive is for this thing, to go longer because they have stumbled upon vis-a-vis are in our head-up-your-ass, strategic planning

around not going in with allies, around not securing the Strait of Hormuz before military action. No aims, no goals. No goals, not enabling and coordinating with our Gulf allies. Iran has, we have given Iran something that, quite frankly, is probably more dangerous and effective than enriched uranium. And that is their ability to put a, stranglehold on a chokehold of the global economy called the straight. So they have an incentive for this to go longer right now. The IRGC looks to be gaining strength, not losing it through this. They have shown an ability to resist or survive this type of military action, and they have stumbled upon a choke point, which has given them unbelievable political leverage.

They had, but didn't think they had before. This is, it's a really, and sort of Trump's like, don't block that straight. And it'll be interesting with U.S. ships there. Now, this could be an economic way to squeeze them, which is important, I think, as always. But it puts, like, I'm like, a ship is there. Oh, my God, a drone of speedboat coming towards it. You just feel like we're kind of big and right out there, so open for attack in a way that they don't have to do much to really create a problem for all of us, right? So that's 15 ships sitting there like, oh, geez, this guy, this is the guy who government, who campaigned on America first and not this. So I think it would only hurt his political standing here and at the

same time make him crazier than ever when they don't behave, which they don't want, they don't have to behave. And it's their, you know, they have the, I guess they have the home advantage in some weird way compared, unless we really want to commit troops. I can't imagine being, I don't have sympathy for J.D. Vance, because I think he's the cyber truck of politicians. But he, they really put him, like, in a situation. And he was not going to succeed in these talks. He also sent him, you know, failed venture capitalists with two real estate people. And then apparently, the guy who's leading, I was reading David Ignatius' column, and I'm going to mispronounce his name, so I'm not going to. Leading it is one of the possible candidates to run Iran

at some point, very, very worldly person, high level on every ad. They sent apparently their best people and we sent them, which is like, I know we probably sent experts with them, too, but it's not like, we aren't showing our finest diplomatic showing if we're going to have any serious. If maybe, maybe he doesn't, because he said, and he's like, I don't care if it works or not. That's not some messaging from the president you like to hear. I don't know. He just keeps stepping in it because he's old. The majority of battles are won before anyone steps on the field, and that is their supply chain, their strength, their military, their brute force advantage. This negotiation was over before it's down.

started because one group showed up with incentives to not negotiate or to extend the negotiations to rearm, but not to come to an agreement. Now, having said that, to be fair, this is, in my view, the exact right move given where we are right now, and that is that we block the straight of Hormuz from any Iranian ports, because that will bring European allies and China to the table, who, quite frankly, who have more to lose than we do. Now, this notion of we broke it, you fix it diminishes our credibility globally for a long time. But something we have taken for granted, like a lot of things we've taken for granted, that took huge sacrifice, huge resources, a lot of brave patriots from around the world, giving their lives such that we can enjoy these

things. One of those things is the freedom of maritime navigation, and that as Singapore has decided not to sequester and block and control the Straits of Singapore. And if you start blocking straits through the fear of military actions such a no one will insure the 100 or 200 million of cargo, that straight is blocked off. So everybody, especially the golf players, and most especially Russia, Iran, and China have a vested interest in the strait of Hormuz being open for their ships. So America, and I think this is the right move. Yeah, many Ignatius thought so too. But here's the thing, I just these little drones and these little votes, I feel like 15 U.S. warships, yikes. I just feel like we are putting ourselves way out there.

And unnecessarily, now that this is our only choice, that's the problem. I think it just... Let's be clear. Not going to Congress, not enlisting Gulf Allies, not enlisting European allies, not having a clear exit strategy after certain military objectives were met or not met, has put us in the definition of a quagmire. By the way, just a quick fun fact, the mining sweep, or the demining vessels in the Navy. Do you know what they're made out of? No. They're made out of wood.

Isn't that interesting? Oh, because they can't. The metals, they don't track metal. Then the drones, then the mines can't detect them. And then when they detect them, they have unbelievable, they're ancient, basically ancient structures with the most sophisticated radar equipment. And when they detect, when they detect a mine, they drop a metal figure, and then it's drawn to the metal figure, and they blow it up. It's really sophisticated technology.

But right now, they have to say to, to, to, China and Iran, we're going to create an incentive for you to make sure that the straight is open. And a multinational force that keeps the straight open to everyone's benefit, that is objectives one, two, and three here. No one must help Trump because he's not Jesus. But speaking of the sad situation for J.D. Vance, by the way, J.D. Vance happens to be Catholic, so that's even better. And he failed in Iran, which I think everyone expected.

despite some last-minute campaigning from him, as well as Trump's endorsement, Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban, has been ousted after 16 years in power. Not a good sign for the Trump people. Orban conceded defeat in the country's general election on Sunday, saying the results are painful but unequivocal. His opponent, Peter Magyar, called the election a miracle telling supporters that we have liberated to Hungary and have taken back our country. By the way, Magyar was a loyalist of Orban and just broke with him over a pardon. And so it's like as if a rhino Republican won, essentially. He's not, you know, Mr. Liberal in any way. More than 77% of registered voters cast ballots.

It's amazing. The highest turnout in a Hungarian election since the fall of communism. You know, it's a really interesting winner. Obviously, he's super handsome and kind of sexy and everything else. But he's not as liberal as you think. Let's just be clear. And he also was in Orbán University, switched parties. But again, it's very much like, oh, who's switched?

I don't know, George Conway becoming the president. You know what I mean? Someone who was conservative and now looks as if he's not. So George can be conservative and liberal on different things. But he's also running for Congress, by the way. Is this an indicator of a larger move away from the far right? I mean, obviously, Democrats can learn a lot. But this is a little different in Hungary.

But it is the end of an era. and J.D. Vance and Trump hugged, Arbonne, and so did Tucker Carlson, so did Elon Musk, that whole gang did also. Thoughts? Since the U.S.'s decision to bomb Iran or increase, whatever you want to call it, increase the military escalation,

or some people will call it a new war, this is the biggest thing that's happened in the last month. This is Europe and a key component and a healthy, important, powerful economy saying rejecting the movement to the far right. He said nice things about, said he hopes the UK rejoins the European Union. It is a huge win for Ukraine. They are pro-Ukraine, and it is a huge defeat for Russia that was hoping to turn Orban and Hungary into a Russian satellite.

Orban was the friction. She was headed that way. Orban was the friction in more European aid and support of Ukraine. It says something, it was symbolic that J.D. Vance went over there. And after going over, Orban's popularity actually went. down, but something even more important, or I would argue more important happen. People. The people. They had the largest turnout in the history of Hungary, a much greater percentage of Hungarians voted than have ever voted in a U.S. election. There were people singing

in the metro. There were people laughing and crying. This was really a wonderful moment for the West. And that's still not the best thing that happened here. The best thing that happened, and it's a real testament to Victor Orban was he conceded the election. Immediately, yeah. He said, he thanked his people, he talked about Hungary, and he conceded the election. And when I saw three judges seeking Senate approval to become judges, and all three of those bitches, and when I say bitch, I mean someone who has a low character, I use it as an Androgynous comment, refused to acknowledge that Biden had won the 2020 election.

Victor Orban has greater character now than many of our Republican elected officials. If you do not concede elections, the very basis, the very foundation of democracy does not exist. In a right wing, some people would call fascist in Eastern Europe, had the decency in the character to concede the election. Yep, absolutely. I mean, he's, you know, it'll be interesting to see what he does next. He'll probably become a right-wing figure. But it seems like right-wingery is sort of on the way out. This guy is a dressed-up version of a conservative, for sure. But at the same time, he was, as you said, back in Ukraine, was not a satellite of Russia. Let's hope he, you know, he certainly looks great. I know it's say he seems young and vibrant. Orban seems old and corrupt, essentially. It'll be interesting to see which way he goes, how he deals with, well, Trump's, I think Trump is a past tense figure at this point for a lot of these leaders, whoever it happens to be. But it's really is interesting. And you're right, this country looked like when I saw all those crowds, all those people, I was like, oh, this guy's absolute toast in the way people are handling it.

And they just were sick and tired of corruption and fascism. And this is a country which has suffered at the hands of fascists and different, difficult leaders for a long time. So what's our excuse? That's what I say. Anyway, let's take a quick break. When we come back, Eric Swalwell ends his campaign for government. Governor of California. What a mess. Support for this show comes from NetSuite.

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Scott, we're back. Representative Eric Swalwell of California says he is resigning from Congress and has suspended his campaign already for California governor amid multiple allegations of rape, sexual assault, and misconduct. In a post on X, the congressman said he is deeply sorry for mistakes in judgment I've made in my past. He said he would fight the, quote, false allegations, unquote. The allegations triggered swift political fallout with Swole. while losing nearly all of his endorsements within 24 hours. The governor's race remains crowded with other leading Democrats being billionaire, Tom Steyer, and former Representative Katie Porter. Just so you're clear, this was started online by someone named Ms. Frazzled, who had done a interview

with Swalwell and then had gotten a lot of incoming about his behavior, which was very well known across the spectrum. I did not, but I think a lot of people within politics knew about him, the same way I think many people knew about Gonzalez. There's a lot of men in politics that people know their behavior, and I think this was pretty well known, which is incredible that he walked into this race with a bomb strap to his chest. He had to have known, or maybe he doesn't think he did anything. That's what he seems to do. So any thoughts on this? You could often, you could possibly see Kamala Harris come back in. I don't know. What do you think about this? Steve Hilton was ahead. What do you think is going to happen here?

Well, there's two things. It's its impact on the governor's race, and then what this says about the dynamic of potential or accusations of misconduct and how we're supposed to evaluate that. So I'll go in that order. I think this probably is going to make Tom Steyer a governor. I think that California is still a heavily Democratic state. I think if the Democrats consolidate to one or two leaders and that person gets into the general after the jungle primary, whatever we call, I think the Democrats are going to win.

And I think Steyer has the money. I think the next shoot-a-drop, I think Speaker Pelosi was waiting till there was something resembling an emerging leader here. I think it's Tom Starr. I think she will endorse him. I think he will be one of the- So is Jane Fonda, interestingly. I think he will be one of the two top candidates.

He has the money. The unions don't like them, but money is more important than unions, even in California. I think with Swalwell dropping out in a consolidation across the Democrats, I think this is probably the moment that we'll look back on say this is how Steyer became governor.

Now, to the second issue, and we face this all the time on boards, when a senior level person has sex with somebody, and then that person accuses them of harassment or conduct, sometimes they're bullshit cases and opportunistic. Other times, there's a power imbalance that the person takes advantage of. My view on this shit is the following. We're not here, and I hate the Democratic Party for having purity tests around people having sex.

I think when Al Franken or whoever gets run out of Dodge such that Chris and Jillibrand can have a... I'm not sure this is comparable, but go ahead. She can have a seven-minute run for presidency where people have extramarital affairs. That, in my view, you know, okay, be careful who you judge on this shit. But if you are, and this is true on boards, if you, once you are above a certain level of power, as a general, not a general, as a red line, you fucking. anybody who works here, you're out. It creates too much risk. So for me, the question is, if law enforcement needs to get involved and decide if there was a crime here in sexual assault is obviously a very serious crime, then have it investigated. But before that even happens,

if it's, did you have sex with a staffer as an elected representative? If the answer is yes, then you are out. If you're the Secretary of Homeland Security and you're fucking your number two, then you are out. If you're the Attorney General in Georgia investigating an important case against the president and you are fucking your number two, then you are out.

The staffers are there to fuck each other, not the elected representative who has power over them because all you're doing is injecting risk into the entire organization, and there is a power imbalance. So whether or not he's guilty of sexual assault, the crime, the legal authority,

should investigate that, but he should be out before that if he was engaging in sexual relationships with the staffers. There needs to be a clear line here. There's too much of a power imbalance. What was interesting is how many people knew about it, right? He's texted me, he's wanted to come on the podcast, and I wrote back, I'm like, I might until there's two left,

and then I'll think about who we're going to, you know, I think there was so many people in this jungle. Yes, Styr's teams with us trying to get on. Yeah, exactly. They were all, every one of them. Every candidate in primaries, whether it's Iowa or Texas, wherever, they're all trying to get on these things. But I was like, well, let's just wait until there's two, which is what I told them.

But I did think I was surprised to find out. And by the way, kudos to the people online who actually handled it rather well. It was until no credible journalist from a major media organization would look into it. Now, it was broken online by this Ms. Frazzled, who had done an interview with him and then had a lot of incoming. but she covers education. Like, that's the thing. And I think a lot of the political reporters had some sense of this from what I could understand.

But it was broken by The Chronicle and CNN, Pam Brown, did a report on it. I was sort of flummoxed by, one, why would you run when this many things were, you would be aware of things you did? And then two, why nobody in media had started to look at it. Because same thing with Tony Gonzalez, too.

like a lot of the, and there's more than that in Congress, that I don't think that you should be on a hunt for this stuff necessarily, but this was really well known now in hindsight. like I think it was kind of healthy for the Democratic Party to speak out, right, to like people to, even if they were friends with him or had endorsed him. I thought that was relatively healthy response from the Democratic Party for lots of reasons. And there should be an investigation. That's exactly what every single party in this deserves and the public should expect. And that was the only part. I was sort of like, really?

I was, I not surprised. I guess I'm not surprised anytime by anything. But I was amazed by how many people within these parties, both of them, know this stuff pretty well. That always surprises me. I don't know about you. Look, I think we need, I mean, there's just need structural reformer this will continue to happen. We need Citizens United to go away. We need Jeremy to go away.

We need to pay Representative Swalwell and the other representatives five to ten times more than they're getting paid now, such that they can do their job and not have to compromise themselves and start trading, stocks. I heard Roe Conno, one of my heroes, is actually outperforming the S&P all of a sudden. We need structural reform. And part of that structural reform is very clear lines. And that is if you are a powerful senator or congressperson, the moment someone comes to work for you. I would say any, not powerful, any. Any. Any person elected to federal office, it's awesome to be you. You're going to go, you have the best rap at a bar. What do you do? Oh, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, elected congressperson from the great state of California. Wow, I would really like to have sex with you.

Wow, sir, we'll find a reservation for you. Sir, let us escort you to your plane and circumvented security. Sir, let us be, can you be our honored guest? Can you be the commencement speaker at your former high school? It is awesome to be an elected federal official. One of the few downsides is that anyone who works for you, that you have power over their livelihood you cannot have sex with. Simple, cut and dry. No story, no context dependent. If you decide you have feelings for each other,

then one of you needs to resign and pursue the relationship because it creates way too much risk, distraction from the important work they do. And guess what? I'm sympathetic. And by the, I don't, I'm not one of these people that doesn't believe in intra-office romance.

If you get a bunch of people in a close intense environment, they're going to start having sex. It's the senior level people that have power that don't get to do it. The young people have at it. As long as it's consensual, as long as no one feels pressured, that's what young people are supposed to be doing. Well, this case has more than that. This is not just that. That's not this. I agree with you. Right.

So, I mean, that's, it's a problem for you. Let's have some common sense laws or common sense norms and standards. When you have this kind of power imbalance, you are injecting risk and your fly is up and locked. You take it off campus. You want to have extra marital affairs. You want to have orgies. You want to have sex with people the same sex as you while passing anti-homophobic laws. Fine.

It's a lack of character, but you don't get expelled from Congress. You abuse your power dynamic and inject the entire office to risk. You're out. Make it simpler for them. No gray. I guess. I don't know. We'll see what happens here. It's not a great story. Anyway, and speaking of not a great story, Treasury, Scott Bessent met with the country's top bank executives last week, along with Fed Chair Jerome Powell, warning them about Anthropics' new mythos model. Besant raised concerns about cybersecurity, making sure banks are aware of the risk, taking precautions. Anthropic itself has been sounding the alarm saying mythos is so powerful. It's potentially dangerous. It's not been released the public yet. Instead, they're keeping it to a small group of companies to test to find voluntary. It finds vulnerabilities in all manner of places. This Besson meeting appears to be separate from the Pentagon's clash with Anthropic, which is still playing out in court.

You know, this is really a problem as these models continue to evolve in terms of staying too far ahead of the defense. The offense is much stronger than the defense. And of course, Bessent is talking to banks about using it, but also at the same time using it to protect themselves. What a mess. What a mess. Another mess. Yeah, I don't have a, I find the worst thing to do right now is to be a cabinet member going on and trying to defend these policies. I think it is the government's interest to help companies figure out as these. See, one might start to regulate these things in terms of the way we do everything else, nuclear arms, etc., etc., development of important technologies. And if it's going to be dangerous to companies and let everyone in the back down and take everybody's money, it's, seems, I don't know, Besson is doing the right thing here, but it's just ridiculous that

the Pentagon is then mooring with Anthropic, which came forward, which companies usually don't in this case. Often companies keep it to themselves until a disaster. Anyway, let's go in a quick break, and we come back. Sam Alton's home gets targeted in multiple attacks. Scott, we're back with more news. Sam Alton's home was targeted twice over the weekend, once with a suspect throwing a Molotov cocktail, and the second time with a cold. car stopping and firing a gun at the residence lives in San Francisco. The subject in the first suspect in the first attack was later found at the Open AI headquarters threatening to burn down

the building. Probably has some mental problems. Altman responded to the first attack in a blog post saying he emphasized with anti-technology sentiments. And clearly technology isn't always good for everyone. In the post, Sam Altman noted that the incident came a few days after an incendiary article was published about him. And the New Yorker raising questions about his trustworthiness. It was an excellent article by Ronan Farrow. That's not what caused it. Nearly a third of young adults say AI makes them angry. These are new polls.

You know, this is unfortunately where it leads. And to blame, using the word incendiary, was really unfortunate on Alton's behalf. But there is, you know, this is, and I hate to blame someone for what's happening here because anyone that uses violence should be widely derided by everybody. But it's still, this is how it goes. I used to say this to them.

If you don't do something about this, you're going to have to armor plate your tests, unfortunately, because people start to get really violent, is where it often leads to. Your thoughts? I just think, I mean, the green lines here, we just can't, we can in any way justify, we have to move swiftly against any violence,

against any citizen. And I know, I'm not a fan of Sam Altman. I think big tech has done tremendous damage in these CEOs. have done tremendous damage to the United States and most importantly to our youth, ripping at the fabric of America, we have to have zero tolerance for violence against them in any fashion.

Absolutely. You know, I don't like Sam Altman. I think he's, we were talking about the soft mic earlier when you were on my podcast. I think there are few people who have seen such a 180 in their brand in such a short span of time. Effectively, the brand march of tech executives

is they're very likable, they're very charming, We need to do better. She should run for president. Oh, I love her book. Lean in. And then over time, we find out that they make a bunch of incremental decisions that are bad for America such that they can get richer and richer.

And eventually they turn into a bond villain. That march is usually about a seven to 10-year march. For Sam Allman, it was 18 months. Remember, Sam was the more thoughtful guy with the hush tones. Like, there are really, really, we are very concerned about some of the implications of AI. And we need to, oh, Senator, I don't own any equity. That's Dario now. I don't own any equity in an open AI. Oh, what a guy. This nice young gay man in T-shirts

who seems to be the caring tech CEO. Okay, I just want to go on record as saying this guy's going to, this guy will say or do anything to make more money. That's why they go into this business. There are easier ways to find self-satisfaction than running a tech company right now. You're there for the money. You get tremendous pressure and obligation to represent your shareholders. You want to win. it is a thunder dome. It is easy to understand why they get there. The real failure is there is absolutely no regulation on these individuals. And so when people start coming at them, like I don't like it when people start yelling insults verbally at J.D. Vance.

I think there has to be a level of civility and safety such that we work things out at a government level. And I know there's a lot of people who disagree with my views on Israel. People don't assault me verbally on the street. I feel like I'm poking the bear here. I think it's important. I saw Senator John Toon in Nantucket. I went up to him and I thanked him for his service. I don't agree.

I disagree with almost everything he does. And I immediately disclosed I'm a Democrat, but I said we're both Americans. One of the hallmarks of a progressive society that we all want to live in is we recognize we're all Americans. And as long as we're operating within the confines of the law, which quite frankly Sam Altman is, and that's the problem is there aren't any laws. He deserves to live in peace and safety. Yeah, let me say he shouldn't have blamed the article for it. This was a rarely well-reported article.

Suddenly people don't hate Sam Altman because of this article. They have these feelings and unstable people act on them because of a perceived rapaciousness by tech companies. It's probably a menal young man. That's correct. Who read about Sam Altman. You know, the guy who killed John... Crazy people are drawn.

They believe that in a historic act of violence, it will restore or give them social capital. That's why they do it. I don't know anything about this individual, but there's a very good chance. It's someone who's isolated and is hoping to gain social capital through what they see is a heroic act of violence.

And the FBI and our security apparatus need to ensure that famous people can walk the streets and have some semblance. My old home, I bought a home in San Francisco, and I bought it for $720,000, and two years later I wanted to move to New York, and I sold it for $950,000 and thought it was a fucking real estate genius.

That home ended up being next to the home where ultimately is no longer there now, so you don't need to look up the address, but it ended up being the home next to where Mark Zuckerberg lived in San Francisco in the neighborhood. Oh, you're in my neighborhood. And now my home is where his security,

detail lived. Oh, yeah. Because they basically started blocking off the block. I know. It's my neighborhood. So after that election in the Netherlands, and I love this, the prime minister stepped down and then got on his bike and rode away. We live in a such peaceful society. When I'm done, I got on a bike. Yeah, he wanted off on a bike. I mean, I'm like, they win. They win. Let me tell you, they're covered by security. He doesn't need the beast. He doesn't need his kids escorted to school. I have been unfortunately seeing the need for it. They do need it. It's really crazy. But one of the things was, I was like, we got to deal with what's happening here. You're going to have crazy people attracted to you. It's going to happen because it's inevitable. And with

just the enormous wealth, the same thing. It's really creates real problems, but you should not, whoever did these things are considering it. You are horrible people. That's how you deal with problems. There's lots of ways to deal with problems. And even if you feel desperate, You should seek help. The anger needs to be funneled towards the ballot booth. That's right. And that is, I need people who will keep these people in check. I need people that when Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk piece out to Florida and Texas,

that there are elected representatives who will figure out a way to tax the earnings they accreted from the great states of Washington and from California. I need people who will ensure that social media is gave. There is no reason people under the age of 16. But be clear, folks, if you're waiting on the better angels of these tech executives to show up, don't hold your breath. And then when they take advantage of the system and accrete massive wealth, that is not a cost for violence. We do have to acknowledge there is a huge eye. I get yelled at for not stopping Elon Musk before. And I get more than yelled at, like threatened.

So I don't know what to say. It's not the way to handle these things. Anyway, lastly, a quick grab bag of other topics. hit. Over a thousand Hollywood heavyweeds have released a letter opposing Paramount's acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery saying the deal would harm the industry. Paramount responded to the letter by saying we hear and understand the concerns of some in our creative community have raised and respect the commitment to protecting and expanding creativity. This transaction uniquely brings together complementary strengths to create a company that can green light more projects, back bold

ideas, support talent across multiple stages of their careers, and bring stories to audiences of truly global scale while strengthening competition by ensuring multiple scale. players in investing and creative talent. They also said they continue their commitment to increasing output to a minimum of 30 high-quality feature films with full theatrical releases, continuing to license content and brands. And they said we understand the concerns. We're going to do what we say. Scott and I do not believe them, but they're reestablishing their commitment to it.

Very quickly, Scott, reaction. Where's this going? Also, Europe is looking like it's going to possibly block part of it. slow going, they'll eventually get it through ice. In what is the greatest movie of all time, Obi-1 Jedi, Obi-1 Canobi feels a disturbance in the forest because the planet of Alderon is killed by a space laser and millions of people screamed.

If this deal goes through, you're going to hear millions of people in the creative community scream, because this is going to be the most destructive force of human capital in the creative community we've ever seen. There is no way they can justify this price if they don't implement the AI that they believe will give them the efficiencies they need to justify this price. So I've been saying this for three months.

Where the fuck of the unions? This should have gone the way they were going to do it, which was spin-off CNN and spin-off the studios and then maybe do acquisitions of pieces of it that made economic sense. They're too fucking late. This letter should have come out. They should have said to Ellison and also the Gulf states and the people financing this deal,

the day this goes through, you are not going to, going to get a single piece of content made. This is unworkable for us. Absolutely. And next one, Elon Musk gave $10 million to two major Republican super PACs at the end of last year, according to campaign finance disclosure, then the FTC investigated ad firms that had steered clear of Twitter as they are allowed to do, and those firms just settled to make it all go away. I just, this is, he's been using FCC, the FTC in all manner of ways, including Marco Rubio, around the center for countering digital hate in order to get his beefs won that he can't win in court. And the FTC does this.

And these firms finally just settled, even though it's within their right, not to advertise at a Nazi porn bar. The quick thoughts? It goes back to the same thing. That's two things. You need structural reform. He's allowed to do this. Until we get rid of Citizens United, billionaires are going to continue to control more and more. Billioners and corporations are going to continue to leak or we're going to continue to leak capital from labor in the middle class.

and consumers to billionaires and corporations because of their ability to strategically weaponize government. 300 people now are responsible for a fifth of all Pax spending, and guess what, they can deploy it wherever they need it strategically. The best ROI in history. I've said this personally. I give a little bit of money to politicians. I'm shocked. I don't mind that they're horrors. What shocked me is what cheap whores they are. Cheap horse. When I give... Well, you don't expect the FTC and the FCC. No, I don't ask for anything. But my point is... Right, but I'm saying usually those agencies didn't do this. And now they absolutely. Oh, it's gone.

Look, this has been going on for a while. These guys are more brazen about it and quite frankly, more efficient about it. There needs to be an absolute restriction. Until Citizens United is overturned, we're going to have more and more of this. Also, until this straight corruption, it used to be more opaque. But I've said, if I had someone in prison who I wanted out, I think for between one and three million dollars to a third party, I could get them out within 24 months. Yeah, the head of the FTC and the head of the FCC really are creatures of Elon Musk, essentially, and others. And a federal judge has dismissed President Trump's. He doesn't

always win $10 billion lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal, which claimed the paper to fame Trump with a story saying he had sent the birthday card to Jeffrey Epstein. The courts keep pushing back at Trump and all, you know, in this case, the journal fought as opposed to CBS and settled, or other ABC, CBS settled. So it looks like the journal has a real victory here. You know, I think good thing. I mean, what a stupid. He does all these stupid nuisance cases and loses them.

We've been really weak on government corruption. The one, the silver lining here, the thing that's holding is First Amendment. It does feel like both Trump appointees and appointees before Trump are saying free speech is paramount and we're going to throw this out. The problem is, is enough suit. creates a chill. I was talking to a producer of a very popular show and they said, we're checking everything now, double, triple checking. And occasionally when something's on the margin, we don't print it because we're freaked out. So, but it does appear when these things do go to court, they are universally swatted away. Absolutely. Well, we'll see where that goes.

He doesn't have much time. Trump does not have much time. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first? I'll go first. So my win is Caras Swisher wants to live forever. I was pleasantly surprised. I really...

I knew you would do a good job, but I was really surprised, quite frankly, the production values. It feels cinematic, the colors, the cinematography. It felt very rich, for lack of a better word. You know what it felt like? I thought that could have easily been an original scripted series on Apple TV.

It felt very, for lack of a better, just felt very rich. So congratulations. I think it's nice for you. I know you spent a lot of time on it. And I really, I've only seen the first episode, but I really enjoyed it. And it aired Saturday night at 10. When is it air? 9.

Saturday night at 9. Unless J.D. Vance does. God, I love that. That made me so happy. I know. I'm like, oh, my God, I turned it on. I turned it on because I want you to have good numbers. And I turned on both TVs.

I don't know if they count them. And then I see J.D. Vance. I'm like, this has to be. I'm like, I'd love to see Kara's face when she saw J.D. Vance at her in her hour slot. We laughed. You know, we had an extra cop. We had a party. We were having a party in D.C.

Tammy had it ran it. And we had a copy of the show, so we were able to show it to people. But first we're like, oh, fuck. And the thing is CNN had a picture of a door. Did you see that for an hour? There was the door that J.D. Vance was behind. And so it was just the door. Where he came out and said we've got nothing accomplished.

I know. Yeah. All right. Okay. Thank you, sweetie. That's my win. My failout, it's not even a, it's not even a feel I have two wins. Like, the election in Hungary is so huge and so wonderful on a lot of levels.

But my win is Victor Orban. I, if a fascist who ruled for 16 years can concede an election, so can we. So can we. And think about what we have done in this country. If you had a team, a basketball team, and a head coach, and they lost 68 to 72, and then the head coach refused to shake the hand, told his team, we won the game, told the media, we won the game, refused to show up for the medal ceremony or whatever it was, would you decide to make that guy the head of the league? if we can't have the peaceful transfer of power, none of this other shit matters. And Victor Orban, who I'm not a fan of, who I am not a fan of, understood, understood. He said his...

For now. He's only 62, so, okay. But he said, Orban said, he called to congratulate Magyar, is that his name? Magyar. And he wrote, Orban said, the responsibility and possibility of governing was not given to us. I mean, a simple line, a simple line. This guy showed more fidelity to democracy than not only our corrupt president, but so many of the people who want to be a judge are willing to do right now. So it's a strange

win, but my win goes to Victor Obon for conceding an election. I am so thrilled for the Hungarian people. It is an inspiration the way they have. And it also, quite frankly, it votes really well for us because we are a lot more connected than people believe. We have to. Let's see, J.D., when you lose the presidency, you better act like that. Anyway, I have failed. I usually like when women say their piece, but I thought two women this week weren't so great. Melania Trump made a rare speech to talk about that. God, that was weird. What did you think of that? It had so much what the fuckety fuck. It was what the hell? Why is she talking about this? We thought there was a story and then there, it's just because she's mad about it. She doesn't, she's like, I was not a paid escort or sex

trafficked, you know, and it's like, well, like, I think she wants to make it clear she isn't a prostitute. That's what, or a sex. Are we all prostit? at some point. I know. I was like, you still, you were like, okay, so you went through a marriage broker kind of thing. Like, she didn't do that. But, you know, I think she wants to, doesn't want it. I don't know what she was doing. I thought, what in the actual fuck is happening here? And, you know, they say Trump didn't know, but they're such like, I was like, what is happening? And why is Epstein back? Like, good. Let's talk about Epstein. And then I think she, like, crapped on the real survivors who really did suffer because, you know, just to get her little

piece out there. And what a selfish person she was. Well, she is. What am I talking about? And then this strange profile of Lawrence Sanchez in the New York Times, which Katie Kirk had the best reaction, is, were you forced to do this assignment to the writer Amy Chosek? I didn't know why she was telling her how happy she is, which is great, but I don't know what it was there for. There was nothing to hang it on, I guess, the mecala. I'm not sure. But it was like so tone deaf. Like, I'm really happy in our $230 million house. And In Florida, we talk, do gratitude to each other everyone. Just more of this sort of performative romance with Bezos is so icky.

I just find it. I just didn't understand it. Karen, do you remember that line from Broadcast News? It's one of the greatest lines in movie history. Tell me. I love that movie. Where William Hurd says to Albert Brooks, what happens when your real life exceeds your wildest dreams?

And Albert Brooks turns and says, keep it to yourself. Keep it to yourself. And my dad, I've been thinking, I love this statement, and I use it as one of the definitions of masculinity, are you optimizing for attention or service? And Lawrence Sanchez, from everything I've heard, is a really nice woman. People who know her say wonderful things about her. Yep, they do. You have an amazing life.

Keep it to your fucking self. Talking about your amazing life in virtue signaling, I have a buddy who is so successful, such a good friend, such a good citizen, and he's a fucking disaster when it comes to his relationships. And I said to him, I said, don't you have any really good friends that can tell you what they think of what you're doing? Who saves you from yourself? Nobody here. She's got the money. And if she, and this is the same thing with Lauren. It's like, don't you have any friends to say to you, go, girl, have an amazing life. Do good things with your money. Take care of your parents. Take care of your community. Give money away. You don't need articles in the New York Times talking about what a spiritual, wonderful person you are and how

wonderful your relationship is. There's no, it's just going to make you look like an asshole. Like, don't you, that's my question, Karen. Don't these people have friends? Especially as the ex-wife of Jeff Bezos just gave $70 million to Meals on Wheels and never said a word about herself. I mean. About the mugs they have were hunk or. Hunk. She needs friends. Well, she has friends.

She has the wrong friends. and call us up. We'll help you. We'll bring you back down to Earth. But I don't think she cares. I think she could do so much good. And instead, she's, I just don't know. It's something I struggled with. My dad told me just, I started to get some success before he passed away. And the last thing he said to me that really stuck with me was he said, the key to happiness in America is to be rich and anonymous. And he said, I. You said that to me a long time ago, Scott. I loved when you said that to me. And he said to me, he goes, I'm really happy that you've achieved.

For the former, I'm worried about the latter. Oh, smart thing you're doing. You don't appreciate the value of anonymity. Well, too bad, too late. But if you ever do an interview about us cuddling and doing gratitude, I'll fucking kill you. I gave her a mug. I gave her a mug. It said, you look like Rachel Maddow's accountant.

No, Rachel Maddow's mechanic. That's your fashion sense. I gave you to see you next Tuesday, mug. Oh, my God. Aren't we adorable? I know, we're adorable. Aren't we adorbs? Adorbs.

My win is another outspoken woman, Hacks, is final season. I saw the first episode, so good. Gene Smart, Hannah Einbender. The whole friggin cast, it's about a woman who talks out loud and is so wonderful. I just love it, love it, love it. And I just, I recommend everybody watch this last season. The whole team there is spectacular. And they all share in the wonderfulness.

And I have to say, it's very sweet. It's about a family. It's about, anyway, Gene Smart is really a woman I'd like to have Keep Talking. And by the way, her speech in last season was so prescient about companies trying to quiet performers and comedians and stuff like that. So I thought that was amazing. So please watch it. It's worth it. It's on HBO Max.

One of my favorite lines. They're going to name a street after you. It'll probably be a dead end with an abortion clinic. Just beautiful writing. Anyway, those are the kind of things I think you should pay attention because you'll make you laugh out. loud. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to NYMag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Pivot. And elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week on on, I talked more about my CNN series, Karras. Wisher wants to

live forever on the topic of longevity. I talked to a panel of experts, including journalist Katie Kirk. She talked about why people seem more inclined to trust dubious wellness claims than doctors. Obviously, Katie was really well known for being one of the first people to call attention She had a colon cancer. She had her husband died of this, and she had a colonoscopy on camera. Speaking of power broadcast news back then, it was really important to bringing down cancer rates, really amazing things she did and continues to do. Let's listen to a clip.

People want answers. And honestly, they often don't like the answers that they get. You know, they want to believe, you know, my joints hurt. I want to believe that collagen is going to make me less achy when I get up in the morning I want to believe that I'm going to be more flexible with collagen, you know. And so I think that people, you know, are grasping for ways to feel better. And I think there is a lot of suffering out there. Really smart voice on all this.

Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin, and Kate Gallagher. Ernie Nertan entered into that episode. Rich Chigley edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs and Ms. Sleverio and Dan Chalon.

Ashok Koroz, Vox Media's executive producer podcast, make sure to follow, Pivot, on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things, tech and business. Congratulations to the good people of Hungary who voted for Europe, who voted for Ukraine, who voted for progressive politics.

And congratulations to Victor Orvan, after 16 years of rule conceded the election.