Pivot - ProfG on US brand post-debate, Disney layoffs = Disney opportunity? and fighting ransomware

Episode Date: October 2, 2020

Kara and Scott discuss the debate and how each candidate's brand was displayed. They also talk about Disney round of layoffs in the parks division and how Disney can recover. In listener mail we get a question about cybercrime and how to mitigate the rise of ransomware hacks. In predictions, Scott thinks if Biden takes the presidency, Palantir is in for trouble. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Scott, don't interrupt me today because you know what? What? I'm going to go Chris Wallace on you. Wait, that's not what I mean. I'm going to go Jake Tapper on you.

We have to talk about the debate. We're going to debate on the debate in just a minute. But I just want to say two things. Palantir went public today. Yeah, they did. The stock opened at $10, which values at around $22 billion. So we haven't stopped them as yet. And then secondly, there was an enormous profile of you in Fast Company that was such a big wet kiss that it was uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable.

Really? There was a profile of me in Fast Company? That's funny because, Kira, I have not read that profile of me in Fast Company 11 times, printed it out, laminated it, and made coasters out of it. I have done none of those things. I was going to laminate it for you. I have done none. I'm wallpapering my master bedroom in that article. Is it laminatable? It's lamentable is what it is.

Oh, my God. I was like, ah, Jesus. Now he's like Drucker. Like they compared you to Drucker. That's right. Like what? Did you just hand them? Like this is what you write. Get out of the way, Drucker. That's ridiculous. No, Drucker. Like they compared you to Drucker. That's right. Like what? Did you just hand them? Like, this is what you write.

Get out of the way, Drucker. That's ridiculous. No, it was. I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. All because of you. You discovered me. And just a little inside baseball here.

As soon as you got on this podcast, we were off mic, you said, who did you blow? And my question is, is that all it takes? Because I'm down for that. I am down for that. I'm ready. You would totally do that well before I would. Let's just say that. Oh, yeah. Come on. At this point, at this point, you don't care. I put worse shit in my mouth. Oh, there's a call from HR. There's the call from HR.

There's no call from HR. Listen, it was a lovely piece. Literally, I was like, there'll be no living with it. When's the next one? When's the next big kiss ass piece happening? Well, you know, I mean, there's just no getting around it. Whenever you read one of these things, all you can think about is, okay, that just means I have farther to fall. Because eventually. That'll be my piece. That'll be my book.

Any metaphorical statue that's erected is only waiting to be torn down. Yeah, that's going to be my job, my friend. That is my job. Thank you for that. I shall be taking that. That's nice for that. I shall be taking that. That's nice of you. I shall be taking that. That's nice of you.

But I liked it. Everybody should go read it. It's a big piece about how Scott is so smart. What did I say? My favorite one was, yeah, I discovered him. It was amazing that he got the downloads he got because he was marginally well-known. You're like, I'm so glad you got a hold of them, Cara.

Thank you. Thank you for that vote of confidence. Well, it was just comparing you to a hold of them, Kara. Thank you. Thank you for that vote of confidence. Well, it was just comparing it to Elon Musk. Oh, my God. Elon Musk. Despite him being marginally known. You might as well have said, I'm a kingmaker. It's all because of me.

Who shall I pluck next from obscurity and bring to the forefront? What I didn't know is you were thinking of having as your co-host Chamath Papadaiya. That's who I beat out. Try Chamath Papatia. That's who I beat out. Try to pronounce someone's name. It's Kamala. Chamath Pali Papatia. I like him. I think he's funny in a revenue. Pali Papatia. Try it. Chamath. Chamath Papatia. He could have you killed with the amount of money he has. Chamath Papatia. Chamath. No, forget it. I'm just not. No. You know what, white guy? You just have to learn how to pronounce people's names. I do love that Camelot. I do love that Camelot.

All right. Listen to me. Palantir. Senator Harris is what I should say. Speaking of things that don't deserve the price they're getting, Palantir. Thinking of things that have a long way to fall. Yeah. So, let's be honest.

This was a victory. Both Palantir and Asana came out. This is a victory for direct listings. It's also a victory for the Founders Fund, which was one of the largest shareholders in both those companies. Yep. I have never, I don't know if you've received any of these calls. I've received calls from, no joke, Academy Award winning actors, Congress people, and business people all saying, can I speak to you off the record about Palantir? Yeah, you saw that note I sent for one of those actors.

It is striking how many people are gunning for this company and feel that it's a menace. And that is just not a good look to be a public company and have so many people coming for you. And it's really interesting what a chord this struck. You and I have been talking about Palantir for a while. There's a lot of pent-up negative emotions around. Do you think it's fair? I don't know. Is it because they did such a good job marketing themselves as this creepy CIA thing? No, what we have is market dynamics owes Trump individual performance. And where we are now is that everyone has decided that anything that feels somewhat SaaS-like, similar to 1999, anything that had the dot-com suffix on it, you should buy at a minimum for a short-term trade.

I mean, I've got to be honest. If someone had called me and said, I looked into Palantir stock in the private markets because I thought it'll probably get a bump because everyone will just plow in. The key is, is this a sustainable company at a $22 million market cap on $750 million in revenue and $500 million in losses? I mean, it just feels nuts. And then I heard from another private shareholder who said that Palantir has never met its numbers, its projected numbers. So it'll be interesting to see what happens in their first quarter, although typically a company cooks its first quarter such that they can announce that they have it in the bag. They kind of know what it's going to be. We will see what will happen with Palantir, but it did get out.

And Asana, you know, that's Dustin Moskowitz. Yeah. That's the founder of Facebook. I remember when it first started, they kept trying to get me to use it, and I said, absolutely not. Do you know Dustin Moskowitz? I know very little about him. Yes, he's lovely. He's lovely.

I have to say. He and his wife, who's a former Wall Street Journal person, do a lot of philanthropy, really interesting philanthropy. He is among of all the Facebook people, and look, that's where he got his dough, right? I have to say, I've had the most thoughtful conversation. He hasn't been involved with the company for a very long time. There's two original founders that were with Mark at the time, Adam, and I'm blanking on his name. But they're terrific.

It's really interesting. Chris Hughes was very, he was not as involved. There were two others that were very, technically very involved. And one started Quora, and the other started Asana. Oh, Safia, the guy who went to Singapore. No, that's another one. That's the investor guy. I feel bad. He's a lovely man. Anyway, we'll see what happens to them. We'll see. Asana did not get as much attention, but it's also an interesting company. But Palantir is definitely, its marketing might

turn around and bite it on the ass. So I have a question for you. As people kiss your ass in Fast Company. What? Okay, because we're getting to the debates. Oh, yeah. Well, my jaw is sore. My jaw is sore. Okay, that's enough. Anyways.

All right, let's talk about the obvious. Is that really all it takes? Because I'm down. Speaking of sore jaws, mostly because of interrupting, is let's talk about the obvious elephant and donkeys in the room. Now, listen, I'm not going to say donkeys. It was really just President Trump. Trump and Joe Biden had their first

of three presidential debates on Tuesday. Everybody knows. It was moderated by Fox News's Chris Wallace. And as Jake Tapper put it, it was a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. Dana Bash just called it a shit show. A few discernible highlights.

Trump refused to denounce white supremacy. Biden told Trump to shut up and they yelled at each other. Chris Wallace later apologized for his part in the debate chaos. Look, this was Trump. I mean, I thought Biden did pretty well, but let's talk about it from a brand point of view.

Brand USA, brand Trump, brand Biden. I want you as brand man to tell me that because we could talk about the politics of it. I think Trump lost this badly. I think most people, all the statistics show that. But most people on the far left think he lost. That's a shocker. No, come on. Come on. Like my mom is wrote me a note and she's way in that camp and she was horrified. So lots of people who were in that camp reached out to me and they're like, oh, he's an asshole. And I don't like this asshole. Like before they're like, oh, he's an asshole, but so what? This was not a so what. So, and I have more relatives like that than you do, I suspect. So tell me what you think from

a brand point of view. So I was saying there has never been a debate that's been more important, but less relevant. And that is, I do think we are, and I'd say this every election, but America has come down to a pretty stark choice between these two in terms of what they represent around America's direction. But at the same time, I think it's the least relevant debate in history because I don't think we've ever had two candidates that the voting population know as well as they do at this point. Yeah, they do. And this notion that 14% are undecided, I just think that's a lie. I don't think. And even if you believe the polls, even if it breaks 10 to 4 in Trump's favor post the debate, that's a swing of six points. That still doesn't get Trump, according to the polls, which maybe

we can't trust any longer. It still doesn't get Trump back into a position where he wins. And if you look at the swing states, almost all of them, with the exception of Florida, he's up by two or more points. He's not within the margin of error, and he's within the margin of error on like half of them. So the things, the emotions, and they're important because you take those emotions into the ballot box and you vote up or down ballot based on your emotion around how you feel around red or blue. And I'd like you to do the same thing, but the primary emotions I felt after that were first and foremost, I really felt disturbed. I felt, I remember in the 90s in the knots, remember in some Asian country, the Congress would erupt into a fistfight on a regular basis?

Yes, yes. Jesus Christ. That's happened in our Congress, let's be clear. Okay. Yeah, but so far we haven't seen anyone. Not lately. We haven't seen anyone. Not lately. We haven't seen the house break into a fist. I mean, they have literal physical fistfights. And then you'd see footage from some debate in Eastern Europe where they'd start throwing coffee on each other.

And I thought. Yeah, a melee. And you literally took for granted that would never happen here. And it's happening. That was. Right. You were profoundly, you thought, wow, we've hit a new low. So as it relates to the American brand, wow, that was really, I mean, at one point, and

I don't know if it's because I'm getting older or it was really that bad. At one point I had to pause it because I was so sort of rattled by the thing. It was like watching a live execution, except the live execution is less disturbing. It was just, it just was so upsetting. And the second thing I walked away with, and I hate to say this, is I really wish I would have paid a lot of money or I've just been fascinated to see how Mayor Pete or Senator Warren would have responded. I'm upset and frustrated that we don't have an individual who can respond more crisply and forcefully. So I kept thinking, oh, I would love

to have seen how Mayor Pete would have responded to that. But the third takeaway, quite frankly, is I did have a sense of relief. And that is Biden did have several moments where he looked into the camera and he expressed a viewpoint. And he thought, okay, this narrative that they have effectively tried to foment and build a base around that he's feeble, and it's created insecurity across all of us. I do think that Biden mostly dispelled that. I want to be clear. I think Biden has lost a step, but he still has step. And if he surrounds himself with good people, he can run a competent, strong administration. So I think, look, I don't think there's any getting around it. They wanted him to look like a drooling idiot. Like pop-up.

Yeah, but oh gosh. Get him some soup. And instead, Trump looked like your drunk uncle at Thanksgiving who you couldn't. And so he's the one that looked unhinged and off. And then he also, I don't know why people don't pay attention when he goes off into some weird place, the Philadelphia thing. I was like, hey, granddad, let's dial it back. You know what I mean? Like it was really, it was, it was, it was like drunky uncle, drunkle, you know, and that they don't ever notice that, but the whole field, he was like, and then there are trash cans and ballots in the fire. And like, it was,

it was really off, like, Whoa, what happened to your brain at some point recently? So, you know, I don't, it's interesting that people don't do, apply the same thing to Trump as they do to Biden because Biden's affable and Trump is just a jerk. So you can put it off to jerkiness. Anyway, but I agree that he didn't, he didn't nail it. So, Bram Biden, I want you to go through him. Bram Biden did what? Bram Biden came across as empathetic. He came across as what the most important thing is he came across as competent. But there's no doubt about it. He doesn't. He comes across as what I'll call not crisp.

He comes across, quite frankly, and they both do this, but in different ways. He comes across as old. And I believe at some point in our presidential elections, we need to have age limits just as we do at the bottom. And you have to be 25 to run for Congress. I think you have to be 30 to run for president. Many people do not think that. I think once you hit 70, you shouldn't be allowed to run for president. And that's ageist.

70? Okay, 75. Pick a number. Enough already. Enough already. No, they get to drive. My mother sells her license. I'd like to take it away from her.

But yes, it's a really interesting moment. I think Brian Biden did just fine. I'd like to take it away from her. But yes, it's a really interesting moment. The last part of that. I think Brian Biden did just fine. I think he seemed nice. I think he didn't whack back at him, which a lot of people, he didn't go onto his, he did a few that were appropriate. And I think one of the voters that they had on CNN

was like, look, he shouldn't have said he was a clown, but he is a clown. So if the shoe fits, like, I think he attacked him enough and I'm glad he didn't, he didn't descend. So that showed a lot of self-control to me, especially with the sun stuff. You're being generous. With the sun stuff, he looked, that was, he handled that beautifully. Very upsetting. Very upsetting. But he handled it beautifully. Like, trust me, I would have walked across that stage and pushed him over. I mean, it just would have been like, so what about brand Trump? Well, Trump just comes across, so I'm trying to be balanced. I think

Trump is very quick on his feet. He comes across as unrelenting. He comes across as decisive. He comes across as strong. The problem is he is literally unhinged. He's lying. He shows no decorum, no respect for the flag, no respect for America, no respect for the office. And you think, is this an individual we want representing us on the global stage? And you just walked away from the whole thing. I mean, think about the—you're talking about the brand America. Brand is a series of— Why do you say strong?

I think he looks like an idiot. He looks like brand idiot. No, I think a lot of people— I don't agree with you on this. I think a lot of people like that strong man, fearless aggressiveness. I think they see it as macho and manly. No, it's like your abusive ex-husband. It's like, I don't agree with you on this. I think a lot of people like that strong man, fearless aggressiveness. I think they see it as macho and manly. No, it's like your abusive ex-husband. It's like, I don't know.

I don't agree with you. I think it calls on some very ugly tribal censors or censors. It's like, what a loud mouth. Like, I have been in so, what a loud mouth. Let's talk about, you're talking about Brand America. Look at what's happened here. The touch points or the things that reinforce this Brand America. First off, we have as the biggest halo across the brand is the novel coronavirus and there's just no getting around

it 70 of people think it has not been handled well and then you have okay four weeks ago the story in the atlantic about him calling uh veterans chumps chumps excuse me veterans chumps then he the then him knowing that the next week, knowing that in fact he knew how dangerous the novel coronavirus was and he was playing it down. Then the next week, everything about the fact that he's the worst businessman in the world. And then this week, you have his campaign manager is dragged out of his home and tackled because he's threatening to kill himself. Every ping. And also on the positive side, I want to be clear, the markets at all time highs and continuing to surge is a dramatic positive for Trump and the

administration because it creates an implicit halo that the market is saying, and the market in many ways is a collection of millions of data points that they feel good about the future. Not recognizing that the stock market has become nothing but a proxy on the wealth of the top 10%, but it does create a very strong brand halo for the administration. But every other ping, every week, it's something just awful. And I think people are just going to decide, you know what? This can't be America. This isn't sustainable. I think people are just exhausted, just exhausted. I agree with you. I think it had more profound effect than you realize.

I think that South America is saying he'll be gone soon. And so it'll be okay. And we're going to get a vaccine. And then we don't have to listen to this chump. But last thing, and then we'll get on to our next thing, is brand Chris Wallace and debates. I think Chris Wallace is an outstanding journalist. And I felt like there was, I mean, America was the victim here, but a close second, an innocent bystander that got grazed

with a bullet was Chris Wallace. I felt like he just did the best he could, the level best he could. And I think he came out of it looking ridiculous. There is no way not to get sprayed or splattered with the blood here. I don't want to say I feel sorry for Chris Wallace because he is such, I think he's a fantastic journalist, but there's just, you just said, there is absolutely nothing a moderator could do. Other than at some point- Not true. Not true. Go ahead. What do you think? I would stop the debate. Yeah, just said, look, we're done. We're done. No, say, you were not adhering to the rules.

I've asked you 10 times. You are not a toddler. You need to, you aren't stopping. I'm not going to give you one more morning. We're going to stop the debate until you can conduct yourself like an adult. That's what I would have said. I don't, I would have taken the heat.

This is not a debate. This is you interrupting. Well, okay, so to that point, I don't think there's going to be another debate. I don't know about that. It's a town hall. I, okay, so to that point, I don't think there's going to be another debate. I don't know about that. It's a town hall. I think Biden shouldn't say that, and I think he should just say, I'll do it, sure, whatever. I think he did just fine, and that's all he needed to do.

But there won't be another traditional debate. No, the third one we'll say. The second one is a town hall, so he can scream it. And he didn't do very well in the last town hall when there were people that didn't just love him. That's the problem. I think the problem with Trump, he's been in this bubble for so long in his like, you know, lick him up and down bubble that he doesn't know when people don't like him. Well, this happens to all presidents. If you look at the incumbent presidents, typically their first debate is not good because they're used to, they surround themselves with people who are like, oh, that's awesome. Oh, yeah, you're right there too.

You're right. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's hard not to be in a bubble when you're president. The very last thing, I think we cannot leave this without saying, the statement about there, too. You're right. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, it's hard not to be in a bubble when you're president. The very last thing. I think we cannot leave this without saying. The statement about the Proud Boys that he made. That was a huge mistake for him. Huge mistake.

Not a mistake. It's not a mistake. It's his heart. It is his heart. And he spoke his heart. Yes, the answer is yes. You shouldn't have said that. Brand Proud Boys, them putting up a logo right afterwards with it on it.

I was like, what world do we live in? Now they're doing memes. They're doing memes at this point. Like, this is how. That's what's so upsetting about America is that it's, and the analogy I always use is that, okay, you're a kid, you're a 17-year-old. And you hear through the grapevine kind of hush-hush that mom had a problem with alcohol when she was in high school and college, but that's been over for 30 years. And then you're at church and her purse bursts open and 40 bottles, many bottles of Jack come flying out. And you're like, Jesus Christ, mom is still drinking?

And we thought, at least I think most people thought, that we had put that sort of blatant, ugly racism, that kind of hate away about 30, 40 years ago. And then all of a sudden, America's purse is busted open. You would have thought for just a few years ago that anyone who said that would have been immediately rendered incompetent for any office, been fired from any job. And here we have in America, it's like people are upset about it. And it's like, but he's still polling at 40%. How does somebody say that and poll at 40%? So, again, it's very upsetting. I think people try not to hear it. It's like speaking of drunk, you just sit there and pretend it's not happening. That's what I think they do. Honestly, I don't know what else to say.

It reflects something very ugly about America. It really does. And by the way, these social media platforms better get these people off. That's enough. That's enough with the social media platforms. Get them off. They don't belong. They don't deserve to be on them. It creates clicks.

It creates clicks. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. Off. Anyway. All right, Scott, let's go for a quick break to talk about layoffs at Disney and listener mail question about ransomware. Fox Creative.

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And we're back. Disney is laying off 28,000 more employees this week. Huge number. Disney attributed prolonged closures at their parks as the reason for the big layoffs, but did not comment on which park locations the employees are from. While parks in Florida have been opened at a lesser capacity, California's park has been shuttered for months because of state COVID mandates. The division makes up a huge portion

of Disney's businesses. Last year, it accounted for 37% of the company's $69.6 billion in total revenue. It's not just Disney, it's the airlines. The airline, because they haven't come to a stimulus deal, which it looks like they might, they might not.

No flights in Orlando. Nothing. Airlines are the same thing. This is a lot of people. And Disney, of course, is such a well-known brand. So how will Disney make up for the losses? What will the numbers return with the vaccine? I think they will.

What other companies do you think you'll see more layoffs from? do you think you'll see more layoffs from? Well, the broader analysis here is that our species is so bad at time. It's one of our flaws, and that is the clock goes much faster than we anticipate. Time never goes slower than you think. It always goes fast. We're terrible at estimating time.

And just as the narrative around the novel coronavirus, I was told three months ago by people who are on the board of the most prestigious hospitals and pharmaceutical companies in the world that by this point, frontline workers and wealthy people, and they said, you know, knowing that that was a classist thing to say, would by this time, by September, be taking a vaccine, getting a vaccine. You can take everything everyone has estimated about this vaccine in terms of what was supposed to happen positively about it, in terms of it going down, the apex, the mild apex, when a vaccine would be, when life would get back to normal,

and triple it, and we're beginning to talk about reality. And people are just coming to grips with the fact that our lives may not get back to any semblance of normality until 2022. And so we have this notion, including Disney, that, okay, keep the lights on, things will get back to normal. No, they're not, because our optimism has cured previous crises. Our optimism has brought us out of wars, it's brought us out of recessions. Our optimism in this case is a comorbidity. It extends the duration of the virus. And so everyone, including Disney, did not come to grips with the fact that if your product is consumed standing shoulder to shoulder or in proximity to other people, your business is going to get punched in the gut for a while. I was on the phone yesterday with the CEO of SoulCycle and Equinox and Pure Yoga because he was upset at some of the things we said that it was reprinted in New York Magazine. That we love Peloton.

That I said they were going to go out of business. I'm like, I don't think you're going to go out of business, but I think Equinox is going to be at 40 to 60 percent capacity at most for the next 18 months. Anyways, and SoulCycle, are you going back to SoulCycle? Never. That's because of that guy, the party for the Trump. But no, I actually like my Peloton. By the way, I really don't want to go back to Peloton.

And it's not a COVID thing necessarily. It was already on my way. I like these at-home exercise things. I think they're really great. So just to be fair, he did mention they have these pop-up tents that are just doing incredibly well. But back to Disney,

Disney, the lining here is as big as a cloud is Disney. Because Disney has the opportunity to create what is the biggest and best wealth generator or stakeholder value creator in the history of business, or at least over the last two decades. And that is the mother of all recurring revenue bundles is lying fallow at Disney. And they should use the cloud cover of this shit show, take their earnings way down and say, there is something called Disney plus plus that includes the best cabins on cruises, days and trips to Galaxy's Edge, Star Wars and Marvel movies seven days before they open in the theaters in your homes,

access to free, incredible limited edition Yoda dolls, all sent to you without you asking for it because we know your nine-year-old son is going to love it. And it's $99 a month. And every household in Western Europe and America that has a household income over $80,000 a year with kids is going to have to sign up. This is their opportunity. All right, so Rundle. They haven't Rundled yet. They've got to have enough stuff to give in a Rundle also, though. Yeah, but most people believe they'll be back at the parks. Most people believe they'll be back next year on cruises. And they still have, they have a huge advantage going into recurring revenue bundle as relates to media because they have the strongest library. Everybody else is not creating content either. True. So it's a function

of your library. They have the deepest library in business. Here's the thing. I think really Hollywood and Disney and a lot of these places that have, I mean, they're really events and entertainment businesses really have to think harder about what their business is in the future. Because this is not something people have moved on in some ways and found other things. And of course, they'll return to parks. I don't think there's a question about that. It's just a question of how much they do, how much, you know, just the way you don't go to movies is as much as you used to. You might, but you don't. So you've got to think about what your whole business is. And I think it does give them a chance to rethink what

the Disney experience is and how you have it. But they still, at the very heart of this, is Disneyland, Disney World. And it has to, this is just, there's no way around it. This is a gut punch. And that's what it is. And they have to. Well, but I do think, I do think this is cyclical, not structural. I think the, Yes. The decline in theater, that's not coming back. Yeah. But I do think people will come back. I think people will decide to have fewer trips. I think the economy is going to suffer. But when they do trips, it'll be high experience. Yep. You know, really special.

And that defines Disney. And when you have kids. Unless they get sort of a, I was thinking of an experience that's in your face. You know, the idea that if they could give you another experience where you feel like you're at Disney, do you have to physically go to Disney? Pods and backyards with Disney characters for rich people. That's literally coming next. Okay, just saying. I don't know.

Yeah, but look, Disney, the parks, people, it strikes me. I mean, the one- Smaller parks? The one place we take risks in my household is around our kids. And that is we basically try to enter into a bubble. We don't see people. We don't really leave much.

But we will take risks around our kids because we think it's important our kids socialize. So I do think, I think the parks come back. The parks, it'll take a while, but they will come back. Tough road to Ho and airlines, same thing. I do say, you know, I have a little, I just interviewed a very major vaccine person this week. It is going to come back, but, and I think once it does, once the vaccine's in place, all I'm going to do is travel. Do you feel like maybe you're going to, and you're going to spend a lot of money doing it? Like, you're going to, like, because it's all, like, bottled up. There's a lot of pent-up demand.

There's a lot of pent-up demand, which will be interesting next summer. I think that's when you start to think about these stocks. Yeah, but it's nuanced. Okay, it's, there'll be a short-term, there's a lot of pent-up demand around resort travel, but the real moneymaker across hotels and travel and airlines has been business travel. And that is permanently, that has gone through, that's undertaking permanent demand destruction.

I used to commute. Absolutely. I used to commute every week. Every week, Sunday to Thursday, I'd go from Delray Beach to PBI to LaGuardia, and then I'd fly back. And that's not only a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of consumer behavior. That's over. That's over.

Because my world has shaped— I'm doing just as well not traveling. That's exactly right. If not better, in some cases. And that'll create, but that where it bunches, where that capital bunches will be around high impact, high experience resort vacations for joy. Disney's right. All right, let me ask you a final question before we get to the next segment with the listener mail. What, I want to make it very short. Try your hardest.

What is the thing you will do once there's a vaccine and you feel safe and you feel safe being around crowds of people? What is, what is the thing you will do? I know what I'll do. Oh, that's really, that's really a thoughtful question. I miss Europe. I think I will just go maybe take my kids to Europe and buy a Ural pass and just travel around Europe.

And that sounds like very privileged, but I really miss Europe. I used to go to Europe six or eight times a year on business and I just love it there. The other thing I'm just going to do is just be a lot more social. I don't like people. I enjoy being an introvert, but this is too much. So see my friends, go places, do a bunch of trips with friends, go to Europe. How about you? Hawaii. Hawaii. I love Hawaii. You love Hawaii. I'm not going to go to Disney's resort there though. It's very nice. I've been there. And you don't feel comfortable going to Hawaii right now? I don't want to get on a plane. You don't want to get on a plane. Okay. I don't want to get on a plane. Supposedly, if you look at the data, if you look at the data, and again,

emotions override logic, but if you look at the data, flight attendants are contracting corona at a lower, under index, meaning the planes are probably safer than most places. But I don't have to do it. I don't have to do it. It's like it doesn't add up enough. I don't desperately have to get anywhere. And so I agree with you. I don't think it's as unsafe as people think,

but if I don't have to, why bother? It's like one of those unnecessary. It's the same thing with movie theaters. I like movie theaters, and they're probably safer than you think, probably. I don't have to, why bother? Like, it's like one of those unnecessary. Same thing with movie theaters. I like movie theaters. And they're probably safer than you think, probably. I don't know. But I don't want to think about it. I don't want to, like, try to figure out the statistics.

And so I want to go to Hawaii. Well, aloha, my lovely. Aloha. Aloha. And, you know, retake my ukulele lessons and stuff like that. I'm not going to. Oh, yeah. That is so what I'm not going to do in Hawaii ever is read a profile of you on the beach in Hawaii.

That will never happen. Anyway. Okay. Scott. I'll drama. No, no. Fingers through your hair. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Because I have hair. Anyway. He was marginally known. I made his ass. Marginally. I made his ass. Where's Chamat Palpataya?

Oh, my God. Stop. I'm not even going to let... Who else was on that list? You better learn to pronounce his name. Who else was on that list? Like, who's in the wings ready to replace me? Who's...

Oh, there's so many. Well, of course, Andrew Ross Sorkin at all times. But anyway. He's very good. So, all right. He's very good. Let's go to listener mail question. You've got...

You've got... I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. Hey, Kara and Scott. This is Jonathan Weinberg calling you from New York. I'm curious what you guys think about the ever-growing problem of ransomware. In recent days, there have been high-profile stories about the private information of students being released after Las Vegas officials failed to pay a ransom, as well as a large hospital chain

that had to divert ambulances and cancel surgeries due to a ransomware attack. The New York Times even reported on Russian criminal groups attacking voting systems in order to try to sow chaos in the lead-up to the November election. The situation has really spiraled out of control, and there appears to be few, if any, repercussions for the perpetrators. On the flip side, IT is often either negligent or woefully incompetent in protecting their employers and customers. Nobody seems to have a plan for how to solve this problem. Is there anything that can be done to address this global pandemic? This one, not the other one. Thanks, and love the show. Jonathan, I wonder if Jonathan underwent something like that. Jonathan, that's a great question.

I have actually been doing a lot of reporting on this topic. I was talking to someone who is working on stuff like this and there's a lot of very secret working around this because a lot of people don't want to say it's happened to them. And these demands from these people can be very high and actually have a lot of people don't want to say it's happened to them. And these demands from these people can be very high and actually have a lot of data. And in this case, it was a nonprofit that had been attacked. And so it's a really, it's an astonishingly difficult question

because we are so open as a culture around our data and so unprotected. And it's different than hacking. It's a version of hacking,'s, it's, it's, it's a version of hacking, but it doesn't, it takes your things from you. It's like taking your passport and your license and your bank accounts and

saying, I'm not going to give it back to you until you pay me money. It's a really, um, Bitcoin. Yeah, it's, it's really,

it's through Bitcoin. Exactly. And it's been talked about a little bit, but it's, I think it's more prevalent than people realize and what to do do about it, obviously there's going to be companies that pop up to help you defend against it, but usually it's after something's been stolen. Mm-hmm. Scott? taking. And that is, you know that the solution would be to make it illegal to pay ransom. And then it happens to your kid and you're like, fuck that, pay them and get your kid back.

And in this instance, and I know several small businesses where this has happened, you come in one morning, your computers are locked, you can't access your data. And they're not even talking about distributing this data. They're talking about you're going to not be able to access it yourself unless you pay a quarter of a million dollars. And then they settle somewhere at $85,000. It's a niche industry where people who negotiate this. And you're like, okay, it sucks to be a grown up. I'm going to pay the $85,000 in Bitcoin and boom, I'm back in business. the state of America. And that is when we had global crime syndicates around drugs or the sale of armaments from a collapsed Soviet Union, we created Interpol. And that is we had an international police to address crime that was in the nether netherland and extended across border and had real negative impacts on the world. And we've cooperated and it's been, I don't know if

it's been effective, but well, I think it's been effective. And if we hadn't had such a shit show called the Trump administration, we could have formed, in my opinion, some sort of global force totally focused on cybercrime. And quite frankly, I think the way you go about this, I think the way you solve it is you play to the lack of morality and the greed, obviously, of these individuals. And you create a billion-dollar fund and you say somewhere between $1 and $10 million for people who knock these people out. say, somewhere between $1 and $10 million for people who knock these people out. And we have an agency that takes these calls and somebody in, I don't know, I don't want to name the country because I don't want to come across as being disparaging of specific cultures. But I think these people will get ratted out if you're organized about it. I don't see any other way to handle it other than security measures. And I think the lowest find workarounds. But this is another example of because we don't embrace our brothers and sisters

and create the equivalent of a global Interpol slash NATO focused on cybercrime because we're so focused on the dumpster fires we have to deal with every day. You know, global cooperation or lack thereof has real consequences. And it's time for global cooperation around cybercrime. Yeah, it's not unlike, you know, it's really weird. I watched The Thomas Crown Affair the other night because I love that movie. With Pierce Brosnan? Pierce Brosnan and Renee Russo. Oh, yeah.

One of my favorites. What's the name of his? Renee Russo. Oh, she's very good. She was good. She's very good. And it was about art. You know, it's the same kind of thing.

It's like this sort of keeping things for, like doing things like that. And I just was thinking, this is something that really does get to the heart. It's not just, it's so targeted. It's so criminal in terms of hacking sometimes is very just, let's just wreck things. That it's really, it does require a police force is what it is. You know, it requires a police force that we, uh, that we take seriously and fund seriously to, to deal with this. Cause it is like breaking and entering and stealing someone's safe. Um, and I don't know why it's any less. And I do, I do know why people pay these

things. It makes perfect sense. Um, but there has to be not just people hiring private companies. And again, there'll be, there's a zillion of these you can hire, and how to deal with them. But how do you – it should be the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have got to be able to beat back this threat. But we need global cooperation. We need everyone from the Mossad to MI6 to the Japanese security force. And not only that, we need the Chinese and the Russians to buy into this. And I actually think they probably would if we had anything resembling. Anyways, this is just another failure

that everyone talks about how globalization has been bad for the world. At least a lot of people have come up with arguments on it. No, it's not. Globalization, cooperation, you're less likely to declare war on people you're trading with.

There are shared victories around joint police force and enforcement that we can celebrate together. And this is one of them. The biggest economies in the world should all bind together to try and eradicate this. It's bad. My sense is it's bad for everybody, but a few bad actors. Yeah.

And what it is, is it attacks a certain size business that is like a constant series of robberies. And a software company. So stocks have skyrocketed. Cybersecurity stocks have skyrocketed this year. If there's a group, if you were to say, all right, in a year we know, or in two years, we know this group of stocks that have crashed and you think, well, that's probably a good thing. It'd be cybersecurity, right? If their stocks went way down, that would probably reflect a positive in our society. But not to say they're not wonderful people and good companies, but that whole industry has gotten bigger and bigger every year.

Probably somewhere you need to invest. Anyway, Scott, one more. Thank you very much, Jonathan. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Support for this show is brought to you by Nissan Kicks. It's never too late to try new things. And it's never too late to reinvent yourself.

The all-new reimagined Nissan Kicks is the city-sized crossover vehicle that's been completely revamped for urban adventure. From the design and styling to the performance, all the way to features like the Bose Personal Plus sound system, you can get closer to everything you love about city life in the all-new reimagined Nissan Kicks. Learn more at www.nissanusa.com slash 2025 dash kicks.

Available feature. Bose is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Do you feel like your leads never lead anywhere? And you're making content that no one sees, and it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot. It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you, tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze.

So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Okay, Scott, the only thing that seems predictable in 2020 is we'll continue to be a dumpster fire inside of whatever Jake Tapper said. How about a more concrete prediction? So I'm allowing myself to say that I do think that, I do think, and it's

dangerous to say this out loud, but when I saw that debate and I see the polls, and this isn't my prediction, I do think Biden looks like, it looks like the landing lights are on for a Biden victory. And I think my prediction is based on the calls I've received that as we get closer and a Biden victory looks more likely, I think that Palantir stock is going to crash. If you look at AOC sent a letter to the SEC asking for information, and it's like, how many times has arguably the most powerful congressperson under the age of 40 sent a letter concerned about a company about to go public? The former, you know, they have people, Peter Thiel has made the ultimate oligarch's rookie move, and that is he has become too close to the source of power and Palantir has

been contaminated. And if Biden gets in, I just can't imagine they're going to have a lot of open arms and very receptive people in the people who are in power who make funding decisions around government. And I think as we get closer to a Biden administration, people are going to go, is this thing worth 20 times revenues given the risks of people like AOC being in any meeting going, no, we're not allocating any capital? I wouldn't be surprised if anytime she's in a meeting, she would go, does this agency spend any money on Palantir? I just think those kinds of questions are coming for them. So I think that goes down.

Also, my other prediction is around, so I think the stock gets cut in half somewhere in and around a Biden victory. The other prediction is Disney, and we talked about this, mother of all recurring revenue bundles lying fallow here. The stock, despite the incredible assets here, has been pretty middling because of some of the issues you talked around the parks. A super impressive opportunity for an impressive activist here is going to show up at Disney. There's too much opportunity. There's too many fallow assets. There's too much- Ask for what, Scott Galloway, who is somewhat of an activist, I recall, what would they say? What is their argument? Well, they're going to start with the ultimate opening line, which I start with every activist letter I've ever wrote. There's nothing wrong with Disney that can't be fixed with what's

right with Disney. And we need to take advantage of this crisis to move to a recurring revenue bundle instead of trying to get people to come in for 120 bucks or buy a movie for 4.99 we need to move to the ultimate amazon prime like bundle called disney plus plus and that activist written that letter scott galloway oh you're you're such a pointed journalist you are so good you are so good i'm a very famous podcaster on the Sway podcast. Kara, let me put it this way. The best way to predict the future is to make it. This is going to happen.

Oh, Scott Galloway's hanging with the activists. This is going to happen. No, it'll be someone more talented who, quite frankly, has deeper pockets than me. Have you been contacted? Have I been contacted? No, I just have discussions with people. You just want to start trouble. This idea is so obvious.

This idea, this isn't new. I've been talking about a recurring revenue bundle at Disney for a year now. All right, okay. I mean, we've been talking about this for a year, but it is so ripe because while the market has screamed higher, you have a company with incredible assets whose stock has gone sideways. It's time. It's time. It's time. Would you recommend people buying it then? Think about this.

Think about this. The guy in charge is the guy at the parks. You have Kevin Mayer kind of floating around out there who's an incredibly talented executive. This company just is, it needs to command the space it occupies. This company has more assets than any consumer company in the world. What about Bob Iger coming back? He's there still. Name a consumer company

that has more assets than Disney. I agree with you. What about Bob Iger then? You have the other Bob, Park Bob, and then Kevin who left TikTok. But Bob Iger has more credibility other than Doug McMillan.

Doug McMillan and Bob Iger have more credibility than any old economy or what you call traditional economy company in the world. And Bob McMillan is taking advantage of that. And by the way, what has he done? Oh, he's announced a rundle called Walmart Plus. He should differentiate it with healthcare, not media.

Iger and McMillan have more AI. I would kill for either of them. That's like the presidential ticket I was hoping for. But anyways, both of them have more credibility. Sounds great. They have more credibility than any corporate executives in the world. Doug has taken that baton and is running with it with Walmart Plus. I think you should differentiate with health care, not with media.

I think if you could put a rundle in a shot, you would give it to people. That's what I think. Rundle is your favorite thing. Look, it is the only way. I've rendered you speechless. It is the only way. It is the only way you can double your market capitalization, double your market capitalization with no increase in revenues. All right. Okay. Well, then it is. There's going to be a run at Disney by an activist now that we know. All right, Scott. That's a good one.

That's all right. Okay. We'll see what happens. But I agree with you. It's a great asset. All right. Before we go, we've been getting great questions from our listeners and we want more. What do you think is being underreported in tech and business?

That's our question this week. We're going to spur you to give us a question. What do you think is being underreported? Email us at pivot at voxmedia.com. Not anything about Scott Galloway, obviously, because there's just one kiss-ass profile after the next. Who did you blow? That's the way I like to start my podcast.

Who did you, hi, Scott, who did you blow? I said that off. And now, of course, you bring it. You bring our dirty laundry into the main. Fine. Whatever. It's on the lawn. Everyone thinks you're so politically correct. We're on the lawn yelling at each other. And that's not a Brad Parscale comment. That sounds like a very tragic situation.

Oh, my God. Did you see that? You know what? I'm staying away. Not a fan, but I feel bad when someone's obviously, whatever is going on there between those two people. It's just terrible. It's a terrible situation. What do you know? Another disturbing item from the Trump administration.

Yeah, I know. Everyone, like Maggie Haberman wrote something like, still another traffic accident. Everybody who gets near that president gets burned. I never thought I would feel bad for him. He's not strong. He's a drunk uncle you need to throw out of the house. That's what he is.

I agree with you. Drunkle. All right. Email us at pivot at foxpedia.com. Not if you're a drunkle. Don't even think about it if you're a drunkle. Anyway, Scott, please read us out. Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sinanis.

Fernando Finote engineered this episode. Erica Anderson is Pivot's executive producer. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts, or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend. We'll be back next week with a breakdown of all things tech and all things business. The nightmare can be over. Voting has started. Voting has started. Do something. Do something I haven't done in a decade. Open your mail. And if it says, hi, here's your ballot vote. If you don't get that mail requested, let's let's

send them in. By the way, 10 times the number of people have voted by mail to date than have at the same point in 2016. Embrace the mail. The mail is gangster. It's mangster. Kara, Kara, who did I blow? Who did I blow? All right. Now, you know, we've just become the debate. We literally just became and I am Biden and obviously you're Trump. I'm Chris Wallace. No, you are not Chris Wallace.

He has amazing hair. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business unless Scott breaks down before that. Have a good weekend. Support for this show

is brought to you by Nissan Kicks. It's never too late to try new things. And it's never too late to reinvent yourself. The all-new Reimagined Nissan Kicks is the city-sized crossover vehicle that's been completely revamped for urban adventure.

From the design and styling to the performance, all the way to features like the Bose Personal Plus sound system, you can get closer to everything you love about city life in the all-new Reimagined Nissan Kicks. Learn more at www.nissanusa.com slash 2025 dash kicks. Available feature. Bose is a registered trademark

of the Bose Corporation. Do you feel like your leads never lead anywhere and you're making content that no one sees and it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot.

It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you, tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers.