Pivot - Rudy Giuliani's on Cameo, Marjorie Taylor Greene's off Twitter (for now), and Baratunde Thurston's on Pivot to discuss it alll

Episode Date: August 13, 2021

Guest co-host Baratunde Thurston tells Kara what he'd pay to hear Rudy Giuliani say on Cameo. Kara pulls no punches on the politicization of vaccines. They discuss the implications of the latest census data, and answer a listener question about what CNN should do about Chris Cuomo. Plus, Baratunde has a prediction about the future of the auto industry, and Kara reveals what she'd do if she had as much money as Jeff Bezos. You can check out Baratunde's new newsletter at theeasystuff.news, and check out his podcast, How To Citizen, here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for Pivot comes from Virgin Atlantic. Too many of us are so focused on getting to our destination that we forgot to embrace the journey. Well, when you fly Virgin Atlantic, that memorable trip begins right from the moment you check in. On board, you'll find everything you need to relax, recharge, or carry on working. Buy flat, private suites, fast Wi-Fi, hours of entertainment, delicious dining, and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. delicious dining and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. Check out virginatlantic.com for your next trip to London and beyond and see for yourself how traveling for takes forever to build a campaign. Well, that's why we built HubSpot. It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you,

tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Baratunde, how you doing? I'm doing great, Cara. I am not in Ibiza. I am not on drugs. I am- Ibiza. I've chosen to be with you like a responsible co-host. Just saying. You know what you do?

You're working too. You're working. I want you to tell us about what you're doing. I love Puck so far. Many of the people there I think are quite good. Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. Especially Matt Bologna.

I've joined up with this dope new media company called Puck. Folks can find it at puck.news. And I'm in great company. Julia Ioffe, Matt Bologna, Baratunde Thurston. And I think of it as a place where I can go along with my writing again. I used to have a column years ago at Fast Company. I got literally the last word in that magazine for three years. And I kind of miss it. So what are you going to focus on? Because, you know, are you going to be an aggrieved person? Because that's a lot of successful newsletters. I mean, to be awake and aware in this era requires some level of aggravation, of aggrievedness. Yes, that's true. That's true.

In this preview period, folks can sign up. I'm calling it the easy stuff. The easy stuff.news is the website people go to get on my particular list to kind of get a feel for what this is. And I focus on race, on tech, on democracy and on climate, aka the easy stuff. Oh, gosh, geez, that sounds heavy. So what are you writing about? What's your first debut episode? Oh, my first piece. So I think it's going to be about taxes, Cara. Oh, wow.

I'm not entirely sure, but I had a realization that the great tax evading efforts of our much lauded wealthy people in this country is not really working out well for any of us. And that it's a tiny form of secession when people so grotesquely withhold from common investment. And so I just think follow through. If you want to opt out and secede in that way, then you also opt out of like the court system or access to the FBI when you get a sort of a malware situation happening at your company. How do we keep them off the roads? That's my question. How do we keep them off the roads? I mean, they're working on it. They prefer to move by rocket now, I hear. Oh, true. That's true.

Last I checked, it was also our air, community air. So it's going to be like very serious topics, heavy duty stuff. So long pieces, short pieces, what's your... They'll vary in length. And it's a new, you've done enough new media startups to know that... I have. Everything I'm saying now is subject to change, right? Yeah.

It looks like it's off to a good start. It feels like it's off to a good start. It feels like it's off to a good start. I mean, I get asked to talk about all those topics. Literally, I do a lot of public speaking. And then I tweet, of course. You waste it on Twitter and they don't pay you, right? Exactly. And this, I think it's good. It helps me think.

I actually am one of those people who thinks through my fingertips at times. And so to actually get back into writing in this mode, I'm excited to just go long on stuff. Good, just take whatever you have on Twitter and then put it there. Yeah, or the things I would say on MSNBC, but there's never enough time on cable news. No, exactly.

Even though all they have is time. A minute or so told me that about, she took everything on Twitter and she put it into her thing. Anyway, it's a really great thing. It's very exciting and people can sign up for it, but let's get into what's going on. We have a lot of things to talk about, big stories and small ones, but just speaking of someone who's sort of putting himself out there, Rudy Giuliani has joined

Cameo. We're very excited. He's currently charging $375. When he launched the page, his price was $199, which I thought was a much better price. Other celebrity prices for comparison, Donald Trump Jr., $500. Sean Spicer, $199. Stormy Daniels, $250. There's lots of prices on these things. Obviously, Giuliani is reportedly broke. Now, you can make some dough doing these things, but that's the more important thing. He faces a $1.3 billion lawsuit from Dominion Voting System over defamation, and the judge

just let that one go forward. And that's a lot of cameos. That's a lot. It's a beautiful country we live in where people who explicitly try to overthrow an election and bring democracy to a crashing halt. He told the FBI. Can monetize, can monetize that. You know, that's what we call a free market. And I'm just I'm looking for I'm surprised he started with Cameo and not OnlyFans. Just given his work in Bora, I thought he might try to get a little bit more money.

Are you making a porn joke? Are you making a Stormy Dandles? Yeah, I'm also hoping he uses total landscaping background just for all the videos. No, that would be good. Can you make people say things on Cameo? Well, kind of. They don't have to. Like, they may not realize.

There's been a couple where they've said things they don't realize what they're saying and got in trouble. I forget. I did a sway with the CEO, and we talked about it. There was a couple times. And then the guy who was a soup Nazi wrote me a mean letter because of something. I forget. They keep telling how much he's making.

Their soup Nazi's making a lot of money. Are you on cameo? No. They wanted me to go, but then I'm like, I don't want to make messages to people. I can't do it. I don't have time. And it's lucrative. I would pay for curmudgeonly Kara to reluctantly wish me a happy birthday. Oh, happy fucking birthday. You know what? If you want me to do that, I will tape it for you and then do it. Happy birthday. All right, good. All right. For free. What would you pay for Rudy Giuliani? Let me just, before I say it, these things are really interesting

because it's a way for celebrities to monetize things and interesting and unusual celebrities for one. It's also to have this relationship with fans. And I think the fan person, now he's not someone you want to be a fan of. You're almost, they're like a non-fan of his. And that's what the funny part is. But this relationship between fans and their,

and their, and the people who love them, fans and the celebrities and the fans and other different people is very interesting to me. That's what you're going to be doing with, with your thing at puck. And people are fans of you. For example,

they are, I will not be doing kind of custom birthday messages. No, no, I get that. That's the difference. I mean, I was trying to think quickly about what I would want to hear from Rudy Giuliani, it's a small list of words that I would

want to hear in a certain order. I would pay Rudy Giuliani to say, Joe Biden is the duly elected president of the United States of America. The vaccines are effective. I've taken it and i encourage everybody who's a patriot to take it and i'm sorry for everything i would i would actually i think i believe in incentives for positive behavior so uh i think i don't know i'm reading a michael michael wolf book he sounds like he's like a sad drunken man like i don't know i think a lot of these characters are sad i think he's damaging i think he's damaging. I think he's awful. Yeah, I think he should go away. But part of me is like, Oh, what a sad, pathetic, drunken, broke man. That's a very humane interpretation. I can't stand him. And I

hope he goes away. You know, I would as I said to, I said one time when I was mad at Rupert Murdoch about something, I think I said something like you can't die soon enough. You said that to his face? I did. He couldn't hear me. He was at a party, but the person next to him heard me. I just smiled and went, you know, I did that head shaking thing. Because he was like, you know, he had treated us so badly on our way out of Dow Jones.

I won't go into it. It's a long, horrible story. But he had sent me something like, oh, we should have lunch soon. I'm like, no, I'm never going to have lunch with you. And you can't die soon enough. One of my political and comedic mentors was a man named Barry Crimmins. And great satirists died a few years ago, sadly. But he has a book out that I hope people check out. It's called Never Shake Hands with a War Criminal. And it's about Henry Kissinger, but about a lot more than that.

It's just, I think you had your birthday, not shaking hands with a war criminal moment with Rupert. Yeah. I just, he just was like acting like nothing happened. He does that to a lot of people. A friend of mine who he fired was like,

Oh, what happened with us? He's like, he fired me. Like, he's literally above it all. He's above it all. There's bodies everywhere. He doesn't know

which ones he shot. He doesn't do the murders himself. Yeah, the murders. He does the murders himself. Let's just say. Speaking of which, the CDC now recommends that pregnant people get the COVID vaccine. Less than 25% of pregnant women have received at least one shot of the vaccine. The FDA is expected to authorize booster shots imminently. I think it's critically important, but the problem is, so the CDC and others are messaging so confusingly, I think it creates an opening for anti-vax type of people to say, see, look at this, see, look at this, whether it's masks or whether it's anything else.

There's one voice I trust above all on this pandemic, Dr. Michael Osterholm. I heard him on Joe Rogan, May 11th, 2020. And then he's got his own podcast now, very straight shooting, Midwestern, like doesn't amp things up, doesn't, and admits his mistakes. So if anyone's looking for solid info, and there are reasons to have all kinds of questions, because things are changing constantly. And I don't envy the CDC, because COVID's like, psych, doing spin moves on us, you know? And like launching, you know, variant attacks and whatnot.

It is. So with that, I'm glad I did a little bit of reading about how they came about the decision around pregnancy. I know a number of people in my life who have been or planning on or were pregnant during COVID. And it was terrifying to not know. And so they're doing more long-term studies. They've got real data in to not just say you can, but you

should. And they're going to continue studying the children after to see if they even inherit some of the immunity. But I hope it can urge a few more folks to get the jab. Well, it's interesting because people are, you know, there's a good story in Atlantic about, you know, not lumping everybody together. I'm so furious at the people who aren't vaccinated, even if they're dying. I'm like, you know what? Before, none of us had a chance. Now you have a choice, essentially.

But sometimes you have to sort of sort them out. People that are truly confused and don't understand it. And that is legitimate versus people who just have these conspiracy theories about Bill Gates or whoever the heck it is. And so it's a really problematic thing, which gets us into our big story. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Rand Paul have both been suspended from social media this week. Greene was booted from Twitter for the fourth time after tweeting the FDA quote should not approve the COVID vaccine. Meanwhile, on YouTube, paul claimed that masks were ineffective in fighting covid 19 leading to his suspension from the site their suspensions will last seven days green is one suspension away from a permanent ban according to twitter which i'm sure she'll be doing really soon she's obviously active on getter which i have

been on lately for reasons you'll find out soon enough twitter is state-run social media they banned me for uhW one week. She can't spell one week for telling the truth. Paul said Google and YouTube are becoming an arm of the government. Paul also revealed last week that his wife bought stock in Drugmaker behind a COVID treatment.

His disclosure comes 16 months late per congressional rules regarding stock trading, which is, of course, he's trying to make money off it while also insinuating there's problems with it. His is that brown mask, but he has lots of other things he says. So if she gets a fifth ban, will Trudeau follow through and actually ban her for good? What do you think about this? I think the age of accountability is expanding and landing more firmly upon us. And I believe they will. I also believe she'll raise a lot of money off of it.

Yes, exactly. She will perform victimhood very well, as she's talented at doing. Speaking of aggrieved. Yeah, performance art to the shenanigans from the right wing around all this stuff. And I tolerate a little bit of it because politics can be theater, humans can be silly. But when we're talking about, you know, this pandemic, which has killed 615,000 just in the U.S. and is ripping the world apart and tearing families apart, I would hope that that would be off limits.

My hope is misplaced, obviously, because it's not. But it's just, it's below any kind of line of decency. And I don't have much tolerance or patience for people who I know, know better. They're smart enough. They have access. They're members of Congress. They're senators. Like they get the best intel and the best info.

So they're going out of their way to play dumb, to play loose with the facts. And that's influencing people and hurting the country. You call it political theater, but is it helpful for, there've been several stories about whether they're going to sort of hang COVID around these people's necks, essentially, because now they have a choice.

And it's really interesting because this is a vaccine that Donald Trump wants total credit for, of course, whatever. But he doesn't really. He doesn't, but he does, right? He has opportunities. You know, he has media moments. He's got his blog or whatever. But he doesn't really. He doesn't, but he does, right? He has opportunities. He has media moments. He's got his blog or whatever, and he's got these underpopulated rallies, and he could be

out there affirmatively encouraging the people who clearly do what he says. They storm the Capitol in his name. I think they'll inject some science into their bodies if he said so. So he is under utilizing his power. Well, what he used it for this week was Ashley Babbitt calling her a hero, essentially, which was crazy. You know, just another crazy thing. What a waste of power that person is and was. A waste of power. Self-aggrandizement at this point. But what does Twitter do in these situations? I mean, for example, I had a really interesting discussion. If Trump runs for president, he wins. And I said, God forbid to myself internally, what would happen to Twitter? Can they keep him off? But they're going to throw her off. She loves this whole game they're playing with her. But what do they do when these people are continually doing this stuff,

sort of walking up to the line, crossing it, coming back and things like that? I want to live in a world where Twitter doesn't have such concentrated power to have such an impact on our society. If we don't live there yet, hopefully things that are happening on the regulatory front will help us get there. They're not that big though. No. They're attuned to like Facebook is much bigger. And then I want to live in a place where they stick by it. You know, we allegedly live in a rule of law

and nobody's above the law, right? That's kind of a premise of American societal membership. And I'd like rules applied equally. So it should not be interpreted as, it will be, but it should not be interpreted as political if you be, but it should not be interpreted as political if you violate. Now, where they got themselves into trouble historically is that they were so focused

on technical engineering, they let the social impact go completely off the rails. And then they were very selective. And then they walked forward and then they walked backwards and they lost credibility, much like some people describe the CDC. So I get it. But we can always expect more and better. And so I expect more and better from Twitter. And I think they've started to demonstrate more and better.

So I encourage more and continue consistent enforcement of the rules. I think elected officials shouldn't trade stock or be on social media. Oh, well, the trading stock thing, I'm with you there. I know. God, they always do this.

This is a racket within a racket that they got going on in D.C. now. Paul is really quite a loathsome character. But I need someone to yell at on Twitter. So if you took all the politicians off, then you're really reducing the value proposition of this platform. True.

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. So when she calls it, though, you did mention the state-run social media. It is not. Let me just be clear. You don't have to be on Twitter. You don't have to be on Facebook. You don't have to be on YouTube. The problem is size is the fact that there's no alternates. And by the way, Marjorie, you can go over to get her, go over with your people over. And this is extremist right wing thinking coming back to bite them in the butt.

right-wing thinking coming back to bite them in the butt. Twitter is my pillow. Twitter is the Christmas tree, you know, the Hobby Lobby company, right? Twitter is a private business. They will defend a private business's right to discriminate against LGBTQ plus people. They will defend against a private business's right to discriminate against Black people. But if they get subject merely to the rules of the platform, they cry foul. There's government run. So either you believe in private property rights or you don't. Yeah. That's it.

That is absolutely true. That is 100% true. I think what's happened, though, is the idea of what a public square has been changed, right? And so people consider it the public square. And the fact is these people in Silicon Valley are just making these decisions and they're so haphazard about how they do it.

I think that's the problem. And it's by nature has to be haphazard because it's just, it's everything coming at you at once from people who have no abilities to handle this. And by the way, I don't think I could. Like, how could I? I mean, I could, I'm like, no, you're off, you're on. Like I would have no problem. I love the faith in, you're off. You're on. Like, I would have no problem.

I love the faith in your self-care. Why? Because I said so. The judge has ruled. Here comes the judge. Because I said so. Judge Swisher. Because I said so. That would be my, I'm giving you no good reason.

There's no transparency. I just decided to do it because I'm in power. We're in production for season three of How to Citizen. Most of my focus is on that podcast. And it's going to be all about tech and like how we design spaces and uses of tech that actually help us show up as citizens. I just had an interview with someone this morning about this. So teaser, there's good news on this front.

There are people designing. Basically, we're all living in private spaces and we forgot about the need for intentionally designed spaces for the public. And so we're using somebody else's lawn when we should kind of build something and mix up where we spend our time. We have libraries. We have parks. We don't just hang out at the mall. Most of us. Yeah, it's true.

Also malls are dying. Yeah, malls have died. No, there's still a few. There's still a few. I had to go to the Spectrum store with my in-laws to help them combine their broadband. It's a whole thing. That's what I'm part-time IT administrator. I covered retail for the Washington Post in the 90s,

right before I started coming to the internet and they were dying then. So in any case, we're tuned in. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about what the new census means for national elections and take a listener mail question.

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what differentiates their investment approach, what learnings have shifted their career trajectories, and how do they find their next great idea? Invest 30 minutes in an episode today. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Published by Capital Client Group, Inc. All right, bear tuned in. We have another big story. The U.S. Census Bureau has released updated population data, which will be used to draw new voting districts across the country and could determine control of the House in 2022. The under 18 population is likely majority non-white for the first time ever. In 2010, during the last census update, Republican state legislatures redistrict most of the country to their advantage. So what do you think this means? And by the way, because you're non-white doesn't mean you're going to vote any certain way, by the way. And there's been a lot of surprises all across the

country in different areas. But talk a little bit about this. Does it change Texas and Florida blue states? A lot of growth is coming from New York and California. So what do you think about these? The first thing I want to say is thank you to everybody who worked to try to get us an accurate census count. In any decade, that's hard to do. With COVID and with the former president, it was even harder. And I know people are out there struggling to count all of us so that we can live together and choose our future together and elect our politicians and do the things we're supposed to do. So thank you, census.gov.

Thank you, government. Thank you, people who volunteered. Thank you, influencers, everybody who tried to help make sure we were all counted as we the people. In terms of the impact of all this, Cara, I want to live in that world where people compete for my vote fairly. I like the whole level playing field, Cara, I want to live in that world where people compete for my vote fairly. I like the whole level playing field and I love competition. It's great. It makes it sharper. We have a problem where the same people who tried to overturn the last presidential election and

encouraged insurrection, the same people spreading all this COVID misinformation and leading to death, right? They're aiding and abetting a pandemic. That same faction is now trying to rewrite the rules of our electoral system. And control them. And control them. Because the GOP will control redistricting in 20 states that contain 187 House seats. It's a show of strength that reveals a deeper weakness.

They don't believe in themselves. They don't believe in the product that they're selling. It's this anti-competitive behavior. Sure, but they control the state legislatures in growing states like Texas, Florida, North Carolina. But they're abusing the power that they have

in that control. We shouldn't have any party choosing its voters. Democrats have done this gerrymandering nonsense in the past before. Republicans have perfected it with the technology they have to now optimize a map for disenfranchisement. And then they've stacked the courts, and they've got the US Congress in their pockets as well,

because most of these House members were elected after Obama. Like 80% of the Republican House is post-Obama, a lot of white grievance type Republicans. And they've co-signed on this lie about the last election and use that to make it harder for us to have our voice. That's whack. That's my eloquent conclusion.

At the same time, I'm going to push back. There's two interesting things. One is Trump increased his voting share with Latino voters in 2020 versus 2016. We all know that. At the same time, the census is expected to show the population of white people shrinking for the first time to below 60%. So there's just, and it's, there's all these very interesting signs of where people are moving from New Yorkers are leaving for Florida. I don't know why they would leave such effective government in New York state.

Well, you know, what's interesting, Scott and I always joke about it is that they, all these people say we're moving to Florida because effective government, but it's like, But it's like, there's much more effective government elsewhere with higher taxes. Yes, taxes. You just were talking about taxes. But what does that mean if they have this amount of control? They can control the courts. They can control Congress. They can control redistricting. And they control governorships.

I think it's terrifying. I think we have a two-party system, which isn't what I would choose to live under. But it's what I've been born into and currently live under. And one of those parties has leaned strongly toward authoritarianism, toward throwing people's votes in the garbage, right? They're still challenging certified election results still. So I don't trust their motives because they made their motives clear after January 6th. It's just January 6th is still here. I'm still, I'm sorry I'm harping on it, but not since 1812, right? So I'm going to bring up that old stuff because it's the same characters who are using that as a justification to abuse

their power and keep themselves in it. And we shouldn't be living that way. We just shouldn't be living that way. So I think it reveals a lack of faith in their message and their product and their beliefs. I think it's terrifying because they, in many cases, have the power to do it. You see these Texas Democrats having to flee the state to try to slow down with something that feels kind of inevitable. Unless, and I always come with the good news, Cara, the For the People Act. There is federal legislation pending that can put the kibosh on a lot of this nonsense. It won't solve every problem. That may not pass. Probably unlikely.

But if the influential listeners of the Pivot podcast would use a modicum of that influence to call up their elected official and say, get off your butt and preserve my voice, and say, get off your butt and preserve my voice. And then we duke it out, you know, fairly. But this whole like land grab for power and this disenfranchisement, we're moving in the wrong direction. And we like to think of ourselves as a nation of progress, but I'm not feeling good

about the way the Republican Party today is doing this. Texas House Speaker just signed a civil arrest warrants for 52 Democratic lawmakers. The lawmakers fled last month to prevent the GOP from passing a bill that would impose voting restrictions.

The warrants came hours after the state Supreme Court blocked a restraining order that protected the Democrats. So it's the courts and the House and the thing. So it's a very, it's a very dicey situation

because some of the census sort of bears this out, bears this idea of people shifting and moving around and going to places of what will be powerful. So what states become really powerful in this? Is it Florida, Texas? So yeah, power is shifting to the South and to the West, right? We see New England, I think it was something like 42 of the 62 counties in New York state lost population.

There's a greater concentration around cities in general versus rural areas because of the way our economy has screwed so many people. It didn't have to be that way, but it is. And folks are migrating into fire prone areas and hurricane prone areas. But, you know, these new areas, nonetheless, the political outcome of the migration doesn't have to foretell who wins elections. Right. People moving to what seem to be reddish, purplish states, maybe they don't even vote. Maybe they vote and get super active. Maybe the legislature there makes it harder for them to vote so they don't actually have the ability

to exercise their political power. Or maybe the majority will of the people who live there still isn't exercised because the politicians are going to do what they're going to do. So it's not to me an obvious, we don't read the census results and then project the presidency in 2024 or 2028, et cetera. We have a lot of moves in between migration and political power. You have your own feeling about it? Here's what I want, because I don't like predicting because I'm almost certainly going to be wrong.

I'm going to make you predict at the end. But I'm very clear about what I want. I want all these people. I know a number of people who have moved to Texas, especially the Austin area. And they like to talk a lot of trash to California and New York on the way out the door. And the same with Florida. And one of your co-workers does the same thing. They need to shut up. Be active when you get there.

Yeah. Right? A lot of folks, you know, do your homework on a place. And folks don't realize, oh, it's much harder to access family planning services in this state. Yeah. Oh, the moves that these folks are making, Cara, they're taking the voting certification away from cities and counties and doing it at the state level. They can overturn a local elected decision. Understand that when you get to these states and fight it, don't just go there because you like the weather or you don't like the tax rate

where you left, become a member of society there too. Then I think we can, the country will be all right in certain ways in that sense, because folks will be citizens where they live. That's what I want to see. I don't, will Texas become more powerful than New York? Probably in the long run, this country has changed a lot and it will want to see. Will Texas become more powerful than New York? Probably in the long run. This country's changed a lot and it will continue to change. But the political fortunes, that's still up to us.

I feel like climate change is going to really determine everything eventually. Oh, yeah. I mean, are we going to talk about the IPCC? Did you already do that this week? And no, we didn't, but we can. It can be part of it. You can. Please include it here.

Go right ahead. So it's, look, this is like a multi-thousand the un yeah yes this is a un report on the climate which is essentially we're fucked really that is kind of the headline it's uh it's an amazing joint effort to get the governments and scientists of like 192 countries to sign off on one document. That feels like we have very few things to celebrate in terms of multilateral anything. So yay. And then you read the content, you're like, oh dear, it's not great. So yeah, we're going to be suffering.

And I think one of the things I've been, maybe you have a similar set of people where you're trying to like optimize for a climate future you know is coming so you're like oh maybe i shouldn't live here because uh the fires maybe won't be there and and one of the sub headlines on this report is it doesn't matter where you live yeah this is it won't ever be fully equal opportunity like covet wasn't either money will help but it won't stop it and so if you don't have wildfires, you'll have smoke from somebody else's wildfires, right? If you don't have floods, you'll have migrating, you know, growing areas because of floods. So we're all in this thing together. And the scientists are getting about as agitated as I've seen them since the March for Science.

Yeah. Did you know I'm getting in a spaceship with Elon Musk and leaving? Just so you know. Wait, is this breaking news? Are we? No. He's the only one that hasn't gone up in a spaceship and done a billionaire roundabout. Yeah. He's happy to send others. I also think SpaceX's efforts in this are more solid, shall we say.

They're an actual business versus a vanity project. He does want to get us to Mars and make us a spacefaring nation, but he doesn't think he should do like a little ride, fly by the world. No vanity project. He does want to get us to Mars and make us a space-faring nation, but he doesn't think he should do like a little ride, fly by the world. No vanity rides. He doesn't care. Yeah, climate, to your point, climate will have a massive impact on the politics of this country and the whole world.

But they seem to be denying them, of course. That's as, you know, Ron DeSantis doesn't look like someone who's going to get up and say we need to do something about flooding. No, but there's something interesting. So I've been traveling. I've spent a lot of time around the country this summer filming. I'm doing this PBS program.

It won't be out till next summer. So even the title may change. But I've had a chance to interact with folks I don't get to. Or folks I might just think a certain thing about due to social. You feel good? We use different words. I'll be real about that. But everybody's feeling the impact. And everybody wants us to do something about it. And that's a different place to be. The loudmouth politician who's like trying to appease a former president may never say the right things. But the mayors, the county executives, the local judges, they'll call it erosion. right? They'll call it accelerated erosion. They'll call it, there's some other technical term

for like land loss underwater sub something. I don't remember the science, but they will say we have to do something about it. We need to raise money to do something about it. We need to build a barrier or get more infrastructure. And thankfully we have, hopefully, fingers crossed, it's almost actual infrastructure week, which is pretty exciting. Well, one of the things that's real, it, fingers crossed, it's almost actual infrastructure week, which is pretty exciting.

Well, one of the things that's really, it is infrastructure week, it's almost there. But, you know, it's really, it's a really interesting question of who's going to code up and say it or else we're going to sort of live in this. I'm looking up the movie. The Day After Tomorrow? The Day After Tomorrow, that's it. One of my favorite movies. That's a great documentary. I feel like, I know, I feel like we're in that.

And then, you know, the vice president guy is like, what are we worried about? And then later he's like, okay, I should have been worried. Like, and they're all living in Mexico, essentially. I don't need the schadenfreude moment. I don't need someone who denied the effectiveness of the vaccine to suddenly clamor forward on their deathbed. That does not make me feel good. And I don't need someone who denied climate science to say, I was super wrong about the climate science. Lash me 50 times in public. Take your pot shots. Have your way. Just let's move forward. Let's make the right

investment choices now. Let's upgrade our grid. Let's go electric. Let's decarbonize. Let's go. You're a better person than me. When I see those saves of people, like, oh, I should have. I'm like, that's all I say. Of course, there's a little satisfaction. I can't. I don't have satisfaction. I'm like, move along. Like, enjoy the next life.

I don't know what I feel like a terrible person. This whole thing has put me into a terrible zone. I'm like, I should feel like, oh, for the grace of God. Go ahead. And I thought, good luck. Like, I feel terrible. One of the darkest, since we're acknowledging our shadow selves, one of the darker thoughts I had, and it was really a question too, which is if vaccination and essentially

effective public health become partisan issues where Democrats follow CDC recommendations and wear N95s and keep distance and get vaccinated and Republicans don't, then that party is literally killing itself. That's not good, right? It's any loss of life is terrible, avoidable loss of life more so. Avoidable partisan loss of life is sick.

And it's like, what is, you're willing to literally lead your people to slaughter. Yeah. To score a rhetorical point and raise some money. I'm always like, bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. We are far gone. I feel terrible for saying that,

but I do think about that. But speaking of don't let the door hit you on the way out, let's listen to a listener question. Roll tape. You've got, you've got. I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. Hey Kara, this is David in Texas. The Washington Post reported this week that Chris Cuomo advised Governor Andrew Cuomo and the governor's staff on matters pertaining to the Elder Cuomo sexual harassment scandal. Some have found this advisement to be ethically problematic.

And in the same vein, listeners may recall CNN clips of the Cuomo brothers' lighthearted and sometimes humorous report during the spring of 2020, when Chris was supposed to be interviewing his brother on New York State's pandemic response. One wonders if more hard-hitting journalism might have hastened revelations of for instance new york's systematic underreporting of nursing home deaths a separate scandal in which governor cuomo has been implicated given your long history in the media realm i'd like to know what you think cnn should do about chris cuomo if anything and i'm curious if you think this is emblematic of any deeper problems with cable news or journalism more broadly. What are your thoughts? Thanks, Kara. What a nice person from Texas.

Very nice. I like the sound of the voice there. It's good. David, they should fire him. I don't have any qualms about saying that. I think it's astonishing how much he participated. You saw someone like Roberta Kaplan have to leave because of it. They really need to give him responsibility for what he did here. And I find it objectionable and ethically problematic, I think is a nice way of putting it. I think he should be fired.

I think they won't. But I think they will not fire him because he's super popular and their ratings are declining. And a lot of that stuff that he did around COVID early on was highly entertaining. But you're right that hard-hitting journalism was ignored, especially with the underreporting of COVID of nursing home deaths. I think he should be fired. The Cuomo Brothers Comedy Hour brought a lot of us some relief, because it also gets to kind of like the nationalization of the news, not like a government takeover, but just examining things at a national level without any depth. And like local reporters, they know who Andrew Cuomo is. Local politicians, you know, one of my good friends, disclosure, is a Democratic state senator in the state of New York.

He's been publicly on, this Gustavo Rivera, look him up. He's been publicly on, this Gustavo Rivera, look him up. He's been publicly on about this governor. I've had him on my shows in the past talking about this governor is not good for voting rights in the state. This governor is not good for anything progressives have ever wanted or just sound government and the intimidation tactics that are suddenly be spilling out into full view. He's been trying to get somebody's attention to talk about it for a while. And folks were happy to have a little comedy sideshow when we also had no real president. So it's not just the media. It was adorkable. It's the whole environment. But man, what that opportunity costs. Because instead of getting to the bottom of these stories, we papered over abuse,

you know, collectively. Right. And that should be reckoned with. And I don't even, I haven't watched much of CNN. Well, what do you think? Should he be fired? Have they even acknowledged that that shouldn't have happened? Well, you know, I interviewed Jake Tapper about it and he was like, this was problematic. He was, you could tell he wanted to say what an asshole about Chris Cuomo, but, you know, he was trying to be a good corporate citizen at the same time, at least indicate he has a problem with it. Here's the thing. If you're going to yam to be a good corporate citizen at the same time, at least indicate he has a problem with it. Here's the thing. If you're going to yammer on about Sean Hannity advising the president and Tucker Carlson, who's really, you know, such a ghoul, like it doesn't matter.

You cannot ignore this. You cannot. And when someone was telling me they were I got a lot of stuff where it was from a media point of view, like, Kara, you didn't do attack this person for this or you didn't attack the, you know, Cuomo had to leave and Trump didn't. Well, you know what? We take out our trash. That's the way, that's how I say it. We take out our trash. That's what we do. And we're going to keep taking out our trash. We shouldn't seek to get away with as many crimes as the other side.

Well, what about this person? I'm like, if I, you know, if I think John Hannity is a, you know, a 10 car traffic accident on the 495, this guy is the same thing. And I'm sorry, he shouldn't have done it. Maybe it's not the same level as Doug Old Harrelson, but this is a cut and dried issue. It's the same I alone can fix it energy. It's the same authoritarian tendencies.

I lived in New York for 12 years, and several of those years were during the de Blasio-Cuomo wars. He must be doing a jig, de Blasio. Which is unproductive for the people of New York. And this turf war, the way Cuomo did this subterfuge-like deal with the Republican Party to undermine the will of the people in his own state. Dirty, dirty business. But we didn't have the best reporting to get it out to the widest. There was some great reporting, but most of the country never heard it. So they could become Cuomo-sexuals instead. Yeah. Now those t-shirts aren't selling very well. I don't want to buy one now.

You should be forced to wear, I think. I think I want to buy one now for history. It'll be like your Cosmo.com swag. Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, or tab or something like, I have a can of tab somewhere in a box. Maybe it'll end up in a future season of Stranger Things when nostalgia from this era is peak pop culture. That is exactly right.

But let's just say, if I say fired, what do you think? They won't do it, Jeff. I don't think they will. And, you know, it's so funny. I'm hesitating to say he should be fired. I think that advising him does cross a bigger line. I was still so heated about the comedy hour. And this is news to me.

He'd be fired from almost every news organization for this. So it's not, you know, it's not journalism. It's not ethical. And you should know better. So I guess. He should say, bro, I can't help you. I'm sorry. And he'll find another job.

You know what? Maybe he'll end up on Cameo. Yeah, maybe so. With Rudy, the two of them. I would pay for that. They could do a show together. Maybe they could heal the country. I wouldn't take an Andrew Cuomo one.

Not in a second. But I would take a Chris Cuomo one. No, we're talking Chris. I don't want to hear nothing from Andrew ever again. I think we all sort of, in reaction to Trump, fell for that act. And it was bullshit, as many things are in life. But we take out our trash. That's all I got to say.

Yeah. All right, Baratunde, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Oh, my favorite. Support for this podcast comes from Anthropic. You already know that AI is transforming the world around us, but lost in all the enthusiasm and excitement is a really important question. How can AI actually work for you? And where should you even start? Claude from Anthropic may be the answer. Claude

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Okay. This just popped into my head. So this is not well planned or well thought out. All right. Thanks for planning. You got it. Honestly, I listen to the show all the time.

When you say we're going to hear listener mail, I heard, you got, you got, you got mail. That's how much of a fan I am of the show. Nice. And yet,

I didn't remember that I should have come up with a prediction. I bet you have a prediction in you. So now that I've filibustered effectively and stalled to try to parallel process, in the next year, we are going to see a real excitement, like a deeper level of excitement around electric vehicles that we haven't quite seen yet. It has been the province of environmentalists, very wealthy people, status flaunting,

sort of virtue signaling types, a few cost cutters at the margin who understand how to work the tax credits and get an affordable car. But mostly it's these premier, high-end, very expensive cars. And I think folks are going to start to get a taste of this.

And we get this infrastructure built through, that'll help provide some federal cover for like, this is a great thing. It's going to become more of a cool thing. It's going to become a strength thing. It's going to become a smart thing. And it's going to become the thing you do when you're buying a car. It'll be increasingly weird to not choose an EV. So in the next year, we're going to see that tip even more. It won't be a majority in a year, but I want to give some kind of range where we're not going to be talking about fuel efficiency

with electric cars anymore. I would say that is an interesting thing, except they've got to make them cheaper. I mean, I've interviewed lots of people on this green premium. If it's not equal and it's come down, absolutely, no question with cars in terms of what you get and what you're not getting.

But the green premium has got to be equal to the regular thing. And that's where the problem is. And to bring it back to citizening, if we could cancel the subsidies to the fossil fuel industry, which clearly doesn't need our help, right? They don't even know what to do with all their money. So I say give it back. And then we can use it to subsidize something that won't destroy our help. Yes. Right? No. They don't even know what to do with all their money. So I say give it back. And then we can use it to subsidize something that won't destroy our home planet. Yeah.

But I'm crazy. That's true. I mean, or we're going to have Mitch McConnell making that I was wrong about climate change speech while we're all living down in Mexico. He can take credit for it. I don't care. Just change your mind. Let's go. Yeah. He's not going to.

I think he's. What if we paid him to do it on Cameo? Oh, Mitch McConnell. I would. carl happy birthday happy birthday no one actually listens to him except senators but you know if we could i would pay for him yeah all right i'm gonna ask you one more question who else who would you say i'm gonna pay for that who of all the people so i already this i have thought about way too long all. I want to know Sean Hannity's price. And I want to give Jeff Bezos to pay it. Those can happen. We already know, you and I both know enough people in this business to know that these fools do not believe what they're saying.

They're saying it because it gives them money. Gives them influence, audience, and money. So give them more money. Do it secretly. I don't really care the terms. Again, I'm past the shot. So if you were as rich as Jeff Bezos, you'd go around and take people out. Just bribe them. Anybody's proven they can be bribed.

It's these cats. So go to Hannity, and he's a great actor. He can cry on demand. He can pound the table and do it for the vaccine and do it for the vaccine and do it for climate justice and do it for our future. And then he gets to pocket, give him a billion. I don't, Jeff Bezos has extra billions.

It won't hurt him. He does, he does. And it'll probably help him. It'll relieve him of the burden of what to do with that money. He has a billion dollars and he can turn around and do anything. He's clear. He's gave a hundred to Van Jones. He gave a hundred to Jose Andres.

Like he's willing to write big checks. So give a cool bill to Sean Hannity to stop slaughtering us. Yeah. Public service bill. Public service. All right. I like that. So if Jeff Bezos came to you and gave you that,

that's what you use your money for. I mean, I keep some for myself. I want those cool new EVs I just talked about. I think my wife might want us to do something to the house. EVs, EVs. All right, I like that prediction. I don't need a billion.

That's, you know, I could round, shave a teeny tiny bit off of that and then pay off the messengers of death. I feel like he's not going to do that. See, if I was that rich, I'd just have a lair and I would do things for my lair. I'd have an evil lair and I would do things for my lair I'd have an evil lair and I would make myself known your mind is so devious and you enjoy it too I do

good for you self love is important I don't know what to say what do you want anyway Baratunde thank you so much for joining us you've done a wonderful job today it's always a pleasure you're 100% nicer than Preet was to Scott by the way Preet was to Scott. By the way, Preet's prediction came true in two seconds.

It was very good. What did he say? I said Cuomo was going to stick for longer because he's such a Trumpy type of personality. And he said, no, he's going to be out right away. And he was out right away. I think he had inside knowledge. That's what I think. Yeah.

What's Preet mostly doing? I haven't heard that episode yet. What's he up to now? What's he doing? He's lots of things. He works for Vox Media. So he's podcasting, right? He's podcasting.

He's doing things. He's being Preet. He's Preeting up. Maybe he'll run for governor. Who knows? I mean, that'll be interesting. Who's going to run for governor of New York? Well, Tish James is obviously going to run for governor.

Tish James and the lieutenant governor. It's always the AG that brings down the governor that runs hokal she's running again she said today so she's going to run for the main office you know cynthia nixon might throw her her hat in the ring again she had some she had some great ideas i uh yeah she did so there's and then pre there could be pre there's a lot of people there's a lot of people are going to throw their hat maybe hillary clinton again who knows i'm you know it we can't do worse in new york, the last four governors kind of left in some form of disgrace. I was just hugging them too hard. That was my fate. I was like, get off, like right now, get off the stage. Anyway, I want to thank you for joining us today. You can find him on his

podcast, How to Citizen, as well as read him on Puck. Can you, what is the name of it again so people can find? The easy stuff dot news. That is the gateway. Easy stuff dot news. Yes. Okay.

And sign up for it. I have to tell you, Puck is really good and you should sign up for several of them. You can sign up. You get all of them when you sign up. Is that correct? Yeah.

Yeah. It's just, it's kind of a gateway to kind of who's your, who's going to welcome you to the party. Let me welcome you to the party, but you'll get to meet everybody at the party when we open. You are going to find something there. You are going to like a lot of people you find there and it's very, it's useful. It's incredibly useful and sometimes funny. And I have, I've enjoyed every single one of them almost, not everyone, but almost all of them. Anyway. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is always a pleasure. I'm feeling more comfortable

doing this, but I don't want Scott's job. So Scott, if you're listening, your job is secure as far as I'm concerned. No, it's not. It's not secure at all. Don't worry about it. That was your co-host. That was not me. Don't forget if there's a story in the news that you're curious about and want to hear our opinion on, go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show. All right, Baratunde, read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman and Evan Engel. Ernie Indridot engineered this episode. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts, or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify, or frankly, wherever you're listening to podcasts, which you can

clearly do if you hear the sound of my voice. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Do you feel like your leads never lead anywhere and you're making content that no one sees and it takes forever to build a campaign? Well, that's why we built HubSpot. It's an AI-powered customer platform that builds campaigns for you, tells you which leads are worth knowing, and makes writing blogs, creating videos, and posting on social a breeze. So now, it's easier than ever to be a marketer.

Get started at HubSpot.com slash marketers. Support for this podcast comes from Anthropic. to be a marketer. Get started atude by Anthropic is AI for everyone. The latest model, Claude 3.5 Sonnet, offers groundbreaking intelligence at an everyday price. Claude Sonnet can generate code, help with writing, and reason through hard problems better than any model before. You can discover how Claude can transform your business at anthropic.com slash Claude.