Pivot - Stock Market Surge, Kara's X Defection, and Guests Samantha Bee and Joanna Coles

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Kara and Scott discuss Wall Street hitting new highs in the wake of Trump's victory, and whether Trump will face off with Fed Chair Jerome Powell. Then, how big a role did right wing media play in the election, and can the left take a page from that playbook? Plus, as X's new terms of service go into effect this week, Kara explains why she's finally deleting her account (no, for real this time). Our Friends of Pivot are the co-hosts of The Daily Beast podcast, comedian and writer Samantha Bee, along with Daily Beast Chief Content Officer Joanna Coles. Follow Sam at @realsambee and Joanna at @JoannaColes. You can hear the cover Scott mentioned of America's "Ventura Highway" by Penelope Road here. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Learn more at storageforai.com. I'm super excited to be next to you in the old folks home, the two of us. You're going to be wheeling me around. Are you kidding? Yeah, I am. I make sure people stay away from you, they don't grab your junk. People are going to have to look over my head and over the back of the wheelchair to see you. But you're going to be pushing me around.

Don't touch his junk. I'm protecting him. Fitching at me. Where is his applesauce? Where is it? Change his catheter. He's in a bad mood. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway.

Scott, you can't believe what just happened to me. Just now. Go ahead. I go to the dentist to get, I'm having an implant, as you know, because I'm an old person, I'm losing my teeth, and they're just checking on it. You know, they put it in and it hurts a lot. Look, I just want you to know I'm in favor of implants.

If you feel better about it. Oh, not that kind of implant. I'm sorry, number one, go ahead. Go ahead, sorry. A tooth, a tooth implant. Yeah, I know, I know. So they put that, they screw a screw into your jaw, essentially, but then it hurts like the fucking dickens,

because, well, it heals, but then it's healing and they want to look at it. So I brought Clara because today public schools have lost because it's Veterans Day. Dentist looks at her and says, how's that tooth doing? Because she has a dead tooth in the front that she fell on when she was a little kid and they cleaned it out and it's been sitting there looking gray and whatever, it just sits there. And he goes, if there's a pimple on her gum, then we have to take it out. And she opens her mouth, there's a pimple on the gum above the tooth, it's an abscess.

They pulled the tooth out, like seconds later, like, and she had to have nitrous oxide, which I'm sure you enjoy. And now she has not one front tooth, just suddenly she took it like a champ, I gotta tell you, I would have been freaked the fuck out if I went with my mom, just till, and I was just hoping to watch Smurfs

and there you were. Well, just to give you a sense of what a real man, how a real man behaves, the first time I had a tooth pulled, I fainted. Why? True story. Why? Was it like a frat or something, it's like a frat stone?

No. It wasn't like, yeah, eat a goldfish and we're pulling your tooth. No, when I was, I think a little bit older than Claire, it's one of my first memories. Don't you love how I turn a cute story about Claire into me? I know, that's okay, it's fine. And my father has something called petite mal,

which is mild epilepsy. Oh yeah, seizures, yeah. I had a stage in my life for a good, probably four or five years where I was fainting a lot, which by the way is really good for your social cred anyways and that was one of the first times I fainted I went to the dentist they pulled like two teeth the first time I went to the dentist I think I was eight or nine well not even that maybe 11 my parents weren't that sophisticated and I had eight

cavities my first trip to the dentist I had eight cavities. Me too same thing you know why guess why Scott Galloway we probably didn't have fluoride in the water where we grew up, which was a good place for us in New York. Well, I'm just saying, this fucking lunatic wants to take fluoride. It is, and guess, and I have, like, so many cavities too. Same thing. We have bad teeth. I think they should put fluoride, NAD, testosterone into the water, a little bit of Cialis into the water.

Just like, why not? The water supply is here for us. You know, you're about to be arrested by the RFK army, whatever, fuck that guy. So, honestly, I think they're gonna dump him. I'm going with that's my prediction. In any case, Clara, good job, I have to say. That was just like, well done.

And the tooth fairy is coming tonight. What's the going rate for the tooth fairy? Did she get a gift? They used to give you stickers and candy and stuff. Yes, well done. And the tooth fairy's coming tonight. What's the going rate for the tooth fairy? Did she get a gift? They used to give you stickers and candy and stuff. Yes, two toys. She got two toys from the toy chest. And I just gave her Halloween candy, anything soft. She has to eat soft foods today.

So I gave her applesauce and Halloween candy. So hopefully we'll have more cavities after that. You want them to feel better. Oh, she was like bereft. She was bereft, but she handled the whole thing well. Good. Oh, I'm deleting Twitter right now as we speak. I'm, I have tweet delete and I'm trying to delete all.

Do you know how many tweets I have? 171,000. You've tweeted 171,000 times? Either replied or liked. I guess it's all of them, but I downloaded the whole thing. It's a mother of a file, but it takes 17 years to delete all your tweets. I'm deleting 55,000 right now.

Um, it's taking 109 years. Well, why I understand. So I'm, I've been on Twitter in two years, but I haven't deleted my tweets. Why are you deleting them? Because we're going to, we're going to talk about why I'm doing that, but I'm deleting them and then shutting down my Twitter account.

Remember I just left it there dormant. But as of Friday, you're gonna talk about why I'm doing that, but I'm deleting them and then shutting down my Twitter account. Remember I just left it there Dorman. But as of Friday, you're subject to Elon Musk's new terms. We will talk about that. You mean the first lady, Elon Musk? The first lady, don't you love that? Elania, Elania. Elania, that's good, that's good.

Elania, I know it's so weird. It's so weird. It's like, you remember that Bob, remember that movie with Richard Dreyfuss and what's his name? Bill Murray. Bob came and stayed. He was a therapy patient of Richard Dreyfuss's and then he never left. What about Bob?

That's what it's like. It's an episode of What About Bob and the Trump family. Let me just tell you two things. I've gotten calls from Trump people. They're like, um, Elon's a little odd. I think you were right. And I was like, uh-huh. Good luck.

Enjoy. He's yours. Um, and then they also noted to me that they think that he might end up fighting with Trump. Um, and then someone else told me he was, they mentioned my name and they said they're going to, he's going to buy CNN so he can fire me. He's going to buy CNN actually come to think of it. My God, for a fraction. I bet. What does CNN is worth right now?

CNN is probably worth somewhere between five and not a rational buyer. It's worth probably between five and 10 billion. Hello. Nice to meet you. Not a rational buyer. I know. Welcome. I have Elania, Elania to meet you. Like, anyway. Yeah.

They're not gonna sell to him. Yeah, I don't, for the right money, they, oh, for the right money, they would absolutely sell. It's John Malone. The people on the board are very surely driven. Yeah, that's a weird. Yeah, your truth is true. If that would, oh my God, can you imagine?

I feel a lot less about Twitter. Well, I have a contract. I'm a truth is true. If that would, oh my God, can you imagine if I feel lost about Twitter? Well, I have a contract. I'm not thrilled. Although he doesn't honor contracts. Anyway. But just to be fair, he's on fire right now. His stock is crazy up. Tesla's up 31% the past five days.

He's still Elon. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. Well, whatever. Big bet. That's because he's hanging with the president. Everyone's got the, he's got the power kind of thing. It's not on any underlying improvement in anything.

It's just that. So he's not on fire. He's on hype, I guess. I love how the president is handing the phone over to Elon and major like talking to Zelensky and hands it over to Elon. Whatever. Good luck. Good adult toddlers running the country. It feels so safe. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today,

including the not so hidden dangers in X's new Terms of Service, which we'll talk about, the right-wing and right-wing media starring role in Trump's victory. Not just Elon, but right-wing. Plus our friend, a pivot, are the hosts of the Daily V's podcast, writer Sam Bee, and host, obviously, along with Daily Beast chief content officer Joanna Coles.

I think a lot of things are going to get thrown down with those two sassy games. But first, as you said, the US markets overall continue to soar. All three major indexes had their best week in a year, hitting record highs in the wake of Donald Trump's win. They were already doing well. The S&P broke 6,000 for the first time in its history on Friday and the Dow briefly crossed 4,400. The Russell 200 index, which is small cap stocks, was also up 8% at the end of last week, its largest weekly increase since April 2020.

Tesla stock, as you said, continues to rise surging 8% on Friday, pushing the company's market cap past a trillion dollars. Again, I must add, this is not on any fundamentals. This is on Elon hype, essentially. Trump meta also jumped 15% after Trump said he had no plans to sell his shares. Again, I must add this is not on any fundamentals. This is on Elon hype, essentially. Trump media also jumped 15% after Trump said he had no plans to sell his shares. It's a meme stock. Again, zero under, look, Tesla's got cars and a business, a really solid business.

Trump media has no business. It just is just a stock. It's just an empty stock, but it still is worth that. It's worth what it's worth. So how long is this gonna keep the momentum in? Is it a good time for investors to dive in? I don't know. It's sort of like the Nvidia problem.

It's impossible to time the markets. If you're gonna go into the markets, I've said this for a while, go into low fee index funds and dollar cost average in. Don't go in all at once because it's difficult to time the market. Now, historically speaking, the market looks very expensive, but let's talk about its run up. It's a variety of things. Some of it is a lack of the markets hate uncertainty. And generally

speaking, investors like, okay, good or bad, your candidate or not, the election is over, we can focus on other things. And the markets like that. They like certainty, they hate uncertainty. Certainty. Now we know for four more years. What I said, my podcast, Profit.G Markets, my co-host is 25. And essentially the markets are rationally reacting. Trump is saying he's going to lower corporate taxes from 20 percent to 15, which means they'll have more earnings,

which means they'll have more profits. So that logically means your share of those profits, which is what a share of stock entitles you to, uh, should be worth more. That makes sense. What people haven't squared the circle on around here is I own a lot of stocks. And so I've gotten wealthier the last four days, but I would argue Ed Elson has gotten poorer because when he turns, when he's our age, the homes, the stocks that he owns, in my opinion, will be under more strain than if we had not run up deficits. And to be clear, the Biden administration is also guilty

of this, not as guilty as Biden. From George Washington to George Bush, $7 trillion total in deficits under the Trump administration, $8 trillion. Biden has not been much better, he's been better. But all of this spending that he's talking about and all these tax cuts, it adds up to great stimulus for you and me. This is great for you and me. It's gonna be additional spending,

it'll prop up businesses, lower tax rates, prop up stocks. But I said that to one of my poor relations who called the gloat. I'm like, I'm going to do great. You not so much. Well, it's so interesting. There's definitely, there's definitely a theme or a zeitgeist in society where even people who don't own stocks and homes are like, yeah, but one day I'll be able to take advantage of ridiculously low tax rates when I'm rich. It's a unique dynamic, but all I see is people believe, the stock

market believes, there's no increase in innovation, there's no increase in R&D. There's no fundamental. That's what I'm saying. No fundamentals in Tesla. There's no fundamentals happening at Trump Media. All there is is they're saying, we're going to take young people's credit card, which still has a lot of credit left on it, a lot of limits on it, and we're going to run it up and pull prosperity forward from young people when, you know, from when they were going to own their future self, their own stocks in their houses.

So which is what you've been talking about for the past two years. But it just amazes me that people haven't connected the dots, the young people who disproportionately pivoted to Trump because they believe their economic prospects are better, haven't recognized that all he's doing is pulling your prosperity forward to me. Yeah, there's a saying for that. Go ahead. Do you know what it is? I don't.

There's one more in every minute. No. There's one more in every minute. A sucker. Anyway, interesting the Federal Reserve will have an interesting job going forward, especially with all this stimulus to cut interest rates by a quarter percent point last Thursday, They did that last Thursday. It's also getting credit for

driving markets up because of that rate cut. But the battle might be brewing between Trump and his advisors and Fed Chairman Jerome Powell. Powell fielded multiple questions about his future at the Fed during a press for last week. Let's listen. Some of the president's elect's advisors have suggested that you should resign. If he asked you to leave, would you go? No. Do you believe the president has the power to fire or demote you and has the fed determined the legality of a president demoting at will any of the other governors with leadership

positions? Not permitted under the law. He's not going anywhere, Mr. Powell. They sparked before. He was appointed Fed Chair by Trump in 2018, but later became a target. His term does not expire until 2026, and it looks like he's not going anywhere.

I don't know how they can push him out. He may have to pay for his legal fight himself, but he seems to be pretty adamant. What do you think? I don't, I think this is a fight that's not gonna materialize because one, Trump's lawyers will say we can't and two, you know, in terms of-

The tweet at him, the tweet at him. Fine, I don't think Chairman Powell scares that easily. Also, you know, the most important person relative to their media coverage on the planet right now is Chairman Powell. He literally put on a master class landing in economy in a soft landing with headwinds of COVID, inflation, 500, the greatest acceleration in interest rates we've seen. He had Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders saying, you shouldn't be raising interest

rates this much. They're just hurting Americans. You had people on the right saying this is going to be raising interest rates this much, this is hurting Americans. You had people on the right saying, this is gonna be bad for markets and crash the markets. We never went into recession. He pulled off a master class. He will go down in history arguably, if any serious economist,

if they say give us the top three chairmen of the Fed, I think he's numbers one, two, and three right now. Yeah. So I don't think- Oh, they'll pick Volcker. Volcker. Well, but here's the thing. His book, his hero is Paul Volcker, who did the same thing he did.

Paul Volcker came in and said to Carter Reagan- He's the one at Greenspan. Greenspan Volcker. No. Greenspan is seen as keeping interest rates artificially low too long. Volcker had the stones to raise interest rates to like 15 or 18 percent to tame inflation. He said, you just can't have inflation. But basically, the memoir that Powell would be seen carrying to Fed meetings is a signal

for what he was planning, the memoir on Paul Volcker. If for a Fed share to raise interest rates, 500 bips in 18 months takes real backbone and it was the right thing to do. I just don't think, I don't think, I don't think Trump wants to fight that battle. So I don't think he's going anywhere. It'll, it'll take them away from other things. His attention span is short.

And so anything that's hard, I think you said that is going to be difficult for him. And this guy looks like he's not budging. Jerome Powell doesn't give a fuck. That's my, it was my vibe from that meeting. Anyway, we've know another thing that's interesting. This is a big meme that's going on a little too much now. People, media is overplaying this now. We've know that Trump harness podcast, YouTube and non-traditional media along with the Brovote to great success. We've talked about this for a long time. But now

there's tons of pieces about this. One piece of the New Republic argued that the year it became obvious that right-wing media had more power than mainstream media, another thing we've talked about for a long time, and that it was Fox News, Sinclair, Axe, Joe Rogan, and others who quote, fed their audiences, dieted, slanted, and distorted information, made it possible for Trump to win. Elon Musk has been telling his followers, you are the media now, which we've heard before. Again, I think it's getting a little overdone, in my opinion, but it's true. And it's also getting overdone. That said, Democrats were slow to move away from legacy media slower as they always have been because they've owned legacy media for a long time compared to

the right, which has been dabbling in radio and everything else for much because they were they were kept out of the mainstream media except for Fox. Mark Cuban posted a podcast that he thought this explains was only partially relevant for Trump's victory. I thought this was a smart observation, as always. He thinks this about social media echo chambers. He says that he told Harris to focus on reverse engineering the algorithms for each demo, but the campaign was stuck in 2020. It's a complex story. I think it's partially, and I thought Mark had a really good point,

that by just saying Dems, you need your own Joe Rogan, it's not the answer. Well, I called you the other night. I'm obsessed with data and also the affirmation of strangers, and I'm always looking at the rankings of our podcast. If you type in, what's the most influential category in podcasting as it relates to an election? I think it would not be politics. I think it would be news commentary, because that's where people tune in to hear about the state of the world. And the top of the 10 top news commentary podcasts, which by the way, I would bet get

dramatically more listenership, not only dramatically more listenership, but younger, more valuable consumers in terms of politicians or people running for office or advertisers. They're much more powerful than the top 10 cable. Who's in there? Who's in that list? I was headed that way. So eight of the 10, eight of the 10 are hard read.

Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Charlie Kirk, Dan Bongino. Oh, gang. I mean. Yeah, what a party. I forget that other guy a little bit older. I forget his name. Who else has John Boyd on? Levin, Mark Levin. Mark Levin.

The two blue, the two lone islands of blue, at number six is Pivot, and at number 10 is on with Kara Swisher. You are literally the only islands, the only safe passage of blue in the top 10 news commentary of the most popular or most influential medium, I believe, now in politics. Don't crooked medias get in there? Don't crooked media? They're categorized under politics, and they're number one or number two.

If they were categorized under news commentary, I think they'd be number one or two. I think that's a fair point. But for whatever reason, Apple doesn't categorize them as news commentary. I think they are in news, if it's just news. You know what's interesting? What I was just thinking, one of the things the right wing does do better, and I do think, I don't know if they're more powerful, is they join together a lot. They go on each other's shows.

They cross promote. They're always, you know, how Rogan's doing the comics. That guy, Tony Hinchcliffe, is a Rogan acolyte down in Austin. They all work with each other as a group. And I think one of the things we should do is like hang with the crooked, we should do something where we're always cross-promoting among our group.

They exist, but they're little islands. But I think it's a little more complex than let's make a Joe Rogan, you know? I think it's just, that seems reductive. The legacy media has just woken up to something we've known all along is that we have a lot of influence in the podcast space, much more so than they realize. Like your little pod, I always get your little podcasts.

I'm like, I think we probably sold more books than a Washington Post review in by far or whatever. It happens to me. Look at, okay, MSNBC, a million people, average age 70. Rogan gets 15 million downloadants, average age 34. Where would you rather be? And if you really, but the reality is a lot of these people, okay, so what do Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson,

Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly? I'm reading people in the top 15 here. What do these people all have in common? They were fired by traditional media. This is essentially, this looks like the outplacement office at McKinsey. It's all these formerly important people looking for a new job.

And quite frankly, you want to talk about revenge of the formerly fired or the fired from broadcast. They have found a home in podcasting. And there's just no getting around it though. You have to acknowledge that traditional media was missing a big... These people have tapped into the same strategy that Rupert Murdoch tapped into 30 years ago.

I agree. I do think media didn't fall down on the job of reporting on it. I just don't think they're getting to people. I do think media didn't fall down the job of reporting on it. I just don't think they're getting to people. I think that's a bullshit. They ignored it. I'm like, no, there was a lot of reporting. It just was how they're getting to people. That's it. The reason I say it's overreach is because I think you're the media now.

You're not the media now followers. You're just not. You can be noisy and stuff like that. But one of the things that was interesting, that constant jazz hands wanker, Chamath Palihapitiya, who you know of, Mr. Spack. He wrote, I canceled my New York Times and Washington Post subscriptions, just reallocated the money to subscribe and follow the following folks on X, whom I believe helped get me accurate news,

including Michael Schellenberger, Kaneoka the Great, the Chief Nerd. Periodically publish accounts I subscribe to on X and you may want to consider supporting them as well. Worst case, consider following them. This guy, I once saw him buy, I was noting several bottles of $10,000 wine one night, and now he's on a budget.

We're gonna hear endless amounts of this bullshit. I just think what he's saying is, is that he feels like he's getting better information and better follows on Twitter than he has in traditional broadcast media. That's fine. Whatever. There's going to be a lot of navel gazing in the Democratic Party. There's going to be more navel gazing across traditional media. Yes, but The Washington Post and The New York Times has great reporting. Susan Craig, they just do.

I'm not arguing that. To do this stuff, I hate, but go ahead, Tariq. Well, there's just no getting, the most influential medium in this election, and I think the most influential medium over the next four years, podcasts, I'm predicting next year, I'm doing my prediction check. I think podcast revenue next year is gonna grow faster

than Meta, Alphabet or Amazon. And all of a sudden advertisers are waking up to the fact that they go where attention is. Money always falls attention. And also the nitro meets glycerin here is that advertisers of 34 year old male is three times as valuable, if not five times more valuable than a seven year old woman.

Because the seven yearold woman is smart. She's not in her mating years. She's not spending money on stupid high-margin coffee and SUVs. Drinks. Yeah, I mean, you know, Adidas and Nike, she's not doing that shit anymore. She's like, okay, I'm only gonna buy money.

I'm only gonna spend money on smart things, right, that are low-margin. And other than pharmaceutical ads. I mean, basically watching cable TV right now, these shows is essentially a lesson in how much it sucks to get old. You're constipated and you have restless legs. I'm getting a series of young advertising people. I can't mention all of them yet because they aren't up yet.

But suddenly, I mean, we're sold out. I would love to do a dance, how great we're doing, but I still just hate that they feel the need to say that New York Times and Washington Post suck and they're terrible. They're not. They do a wonderful account of it. I don't think people are, yeah, they're fine.

Yes, he was, he was. Those douches are. Yeah, they're the last of a, they're the best of a dying breed, and they do a good job. There will always be room for them. I think they will. The problem is, you know,

Meredith Levyon is doing an amazing job and has figured out the business model there. Washington Post is important, but it's a shitty business. Okay, that's two. I just named 10 podcasts that are making a bunch of money. The economics are so much different. Well, I think CNN's still making money. You want me to? Oh, I thought we were talking about newspapers.

Yeah, I know, but I'm saying media writ large. CNN makes a lot of money. And not only that, I hate to say this, CNN, the New York Times, The Washington Post, and Pivot, quite frankly, from just a pure economic standpoint, the election worked out really well for us. Contrarian media does better

when the other guy or gal is in the audience. Yeah. Yeah, I think we'll do very well with this. Sadly, I sound like Jeff Zucker, but- What is also happening in podcasting is that the biggest podcast, the biggest podcasting platform is the biggest streaming platform, and that is the biggest podcasting platform is now YouTube. That is, if you are not getting more views from your podcast on YouTube, it means that your podcast is not thriving.

Yeah, we're moving, we're both moving that way with all our properties. So we're gonna be heavy on that this year. Anyway, I wanna mention, just to finish up this section, the last episode of On with Kara Swisher, I assembled a panel of experts for a post-election deep dive pollster, Kristen Saltz Anderson, who's also on the Chris Wall show with me,

explained what she thought. This is an interesting take. I find her to be one of the smartest polsters around. She's been correct about everything. What she thought the biggest media moment for Trump was, it was not Joe Rogan. Let's listen. I think it is important to note that Joe Rogan's podcast appearance was not actually the thing that had broken through the most in the month before. By a long shot, the thing that had broken through the most was Donald Trump working

a shift at McDonald's. So, well, this is not to say that the podcast election isn't a thing, but I do think that it's not just about the medium. It's about things that are a unique message that are unexpected. Maybe they're memeable. There's something that amuse, entertain, make your jaw drop, whatever. That is still the stuff that breaks through. The content still matters even as the medium is changing. For the record, Donald Trump did not work a shift at McDonald's. Yeah, but it looked like he did.

For what it's worth. That was Washington Post reporter Isaac Arnstorf, great reporter, chiming in with that clarification. I thought Kristin made an excellent point. Like, I think she's talking about a bigger picture, which I like, I appreciate. Yeah, I thought the three biggest moments were actually, I mean, if she has the data.

She does have the data, yeah. But I would have thought the three biggest were Caller Daddy, Joe Rogan, and has the data. She does have the data, yeah. But I would have thought the three biggest were Caller Daddy, Joe Rogan, and then the debate. But she's saying that it was the McDonald's thing because it got a lot of shampoo or echo effect across social media. Yeah, and people noticed it and picked up. The debate did what they were all up there, but she said that McDonald's thing was very important,

which we all make fun of, but it worked. The most insightful comment on polls was made by Madonna in the movie Truth or Dare, where she suggested that her employees take a poll and stick it up their ass. Okay, let's go on a quick break when we come back. Why people might want to leave X for good this week if they haven't already, and we'll speak with friends of Pivot, Samantha Bee and Joanna Koles. Support for Pivot comes from Vanta. Whether you're starting or scaling your company's security program, demonstrating top-notch security practices and establishing trust is more important than ever. Vanta automates compliance for SOC 2, ISO 7001, and more, saving you time and money

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when you sign up today at Miro.com. That's three free boards at Miro. Your first three Miro boards are free when you sign up today at Miro.com. That's three free boards at Miro.com. Scott, we're back. X was updated its Terms of Service to say that any user's lawsuits against the platform will have to go to a federal court in Northern District of Texas. To be clear, this is as of November 15th on Friday. The platform isn't, if you're still on the platform, I'm coming off on Thursday. The platform is not located in the district, which frequently rules in favor of conservative parties. That's his favorite place. The Northern District is already the venue for exes lawsuits against liberal watchdog media matters in the suit accusing

advertisers of boycotting, which Mark Andreessen idiotically weighed in on. Marc, for someone so smart, you're so stupid. The initial judge on those two cases recused himself from the antitrust case after it was revealed he owned shares of Tesla, but it's still Elon's favorite judge. So if you are on there and you want to sue Elon and Twitter, you need to do it in that court in Texas as of Friday if you're still a user of the service, also in X's new terms of service by continuing to use X after November 15th. Users will agree that the platform can use their data to train AI models.

I'm right now deleting all my tweets because I don't want him to use them as many as I can. So, what do you think about that? I understand your logic now around wanting to delete your... I'm not as worried about data being used for AI models. The reason I got off is I don't want to... You summarized it perfectly for me. I don't need to paint this guy's fucking fence.

Yeah, but you're still on there. I'm saying as long as you're still on there. I'm saying as long as you're a member of his service, you can't, if you ever have a beef with them, you have to go to Texas. Well, I know that, but it's standard procedure for any corporation to try and get trials moved to the most favorable jurisdiction,

including if you're accused of- Not like this. This is unusual. I've talked to a dozen lawyers. This is unusual. I'm sorry, I have no comment. Tell me what's going on here, Kara. All right, the headquarters is in Bastrop, Texas, This is unusual. I've talked to a dozen lawyers. This is unusual. I'm sorry. I have no comment. Tell me what's going on here, Kara.

All right. The headquarters is in Bastrop, Texas, which is a different district than this one. They're pointing that nobody, most of them point where their headquarters is, whether it was San Francisco or whatever, somewhere near. It's not some random district in Texas where he has his favorite judge. There is judge shopping. This is unusual. CBLEP Isn't it standard procedure for corporations

and defendants to go jurisdiction or, as you called it, judge shopping? DENISE No, it isn't. It's not like this. It's standard, say, Delaware or, you know, to... You have to have some good reason. This is what these lawyers tell me. It's unusual to pick a thing that has nothing to do with any of your businesses. They're just putting it in there because they can.

It's like saying everyone will be tried in quality, long pour. Doesn't that mean someone in the government isn't doing their job by letting them do that? I don't think it's illegal. So why wouldn't everyone do it? I don't understand it. You're just saying he has, he's smarter than

every other corporation. Or he wants, wants, well,, I think, shameless, more shameless. Oh, come on. I mean, you don't think other corporations are shameless? No, come on, Scott, don't normalize this. This is strange to do. Moving to the jurisdiction that is most favorable to him and his shareholders? You don't think every-

That has nothing to do with any of his companies. You think other companies go, oh, that is not right. I will not move it to a more favorable court. But they haven't, look at that. They haven't, why haven't they? Don't you, I'm sure people have thought of this, but they don't do it. People don't do it. They, it has some, probably because they have more conservative lawyers and he doesn't care to be conservative. That's my guess. It might backfire, who knows. But has it been approved? Approved. It's done. He just says it. He just says it because it's in the terms of service and by using the service you agree to the terms of service.

No, no, I'm not talking about terms of service. I was talking about he's moved his headquarters to Texas and if you move your headquarters to... But not to this district. Not to this district. Okay. It's a different district, which is less kind to him. Where his headquarters are is a different district than this district. There's two judges in this district, and he also owns Tesla stock. Aren't there conflicts of interest rules against that? If you're a judge, don't you have to recuse yourself? Well, he pulled himself out of one case. He's like that woman in Florida. He recused himself in some cases, and then he doesn't.

It's literally like the plot of Roadhouse. But my understanding is when she did that, another court, it was an effective delay tactic, but eventually her decisions, weren't they? I mean, I still like to think there are, that the legal system is still a pillar that's mostly standing. Yes, you would think that,

but we are living in a version of Roadhouse. Like the big guy gets to decide. I don't know what to say. This is not normal. This is not normal. This is not normal. It is not. Anyway, very quickly, everyone wants to be a digital nomad now that Donald Trump has won a second term as president. You know the threats of moving to Canada, but Google searches for best countries to move to and how to move to Canada peaked. Over 50 countries, including New Zealand and Japan, offer digital nomad visas. Digital

nomadding, which I think you kind of are, also boom during the pandemic when working in office was rare. Now back to the office mandates are more common. Who's going to follow Scott and be a digital nomad? I think that's just an empty threat for most people. I'm not a digital nomad. The tail is wagging the dog and the tail is our kids. We basically dictate where we're going to live based on what would be the most interesting experience

to them and what would be the best high school. But something I have noticed here that's really big in the UK is this non-dom thing. And that is people who were non-domiciled here and were paying more favorable tax rates based on a country of origin where they established tax status, which includes many of the wealthiest people in London. The new government has said that that shit's over. And if you've been here a certain amount of time, you got to pay UK taxes,

which for a lot of people is much greater tax rate. That was not low. They didn't think, including me, I didn't think these folks are going to move. I have a friend who's moving to Italy and leaving his family here. I have another friend who's moving back to Hong Kong. They estimate that their treasury is actually going to collect less receipts with higher taxes because what they fail to realize is that rich people are the most mobile in the world.

And until we have some sort of multilateral minimum alternative minimum tax, you're just, you know, folks are going to, folks are just going to keep moving. Rich people will find the way through just like Trump did that with the taxes. Like when he said, why shouldn't I cheat? Not cheat, why shouldn't I try to get out of taxes? I think he's truthful. Are you a digital nomad? You don't think you are? No, I didn't.

No, I'm very much stationary. I think of a digital nomad as somebody who says, I have a job where I can make good money, work remote, and I'm going to move to Mexico City. I'm going to move to a lower cost of living. I did move, when I moved from New York to Florida, I recognized a very accretive, it was very accretive in terms of my lifestyle.

Because when I moved in 2010, it was much less expensive in Florida. These geographic or lifestyle arbitrages ultimately get starched out as it has in Florida, as real estate has doubled or tripled in the last 13 years. But I go, I mean, I'm now living in a city that's as expensive or more expensive than New York. I would, again, I'm a, but I go, I mean, I'm now living in a city that's as expensive or more expensive than New York.

I would, again, I'm a, at this point, I spent the first half of my life focused on making money. I'm going to spend the next half focused on, and this is a great thing, spending it. And I, my reductive analysis is the following, having molested the earth for the last 35 years, America, America is the best place to make God. America is the best place to make money. Europe is the best place to spend it. I'm focused on spending money right now. So I'm living in Europe, but it has,

I don't think of myself. As a matter of fact, my life would be, I'm getting on a plane tomorrow at oh fucking dark hundred hours. I'm going- Yeah, to meet me. I mean, that's right. I'm going New York, New York for 50 hours.

And I'm going to Cabo San Lucas for Summit. Then I'm going to LA for Netflix. And I'm going to Cabo San Lucas for Summit. Then I'm going to LA for Netflix and I'm going to Vegas for a speaking gig and then I'm going to fucking South. And F1. And F1, yes. Can we just tell you, the world's tiniest violin is playing for you right now over somewhere I can't hear it.

But that's it. Wait, wait, wait. I'm about primarily what's good for my kids where I can make money and where I can have the most fun and then I'm going to South Paulo for a speaking gig and then I'm coming home. Don't you make these choices, Scott? If I was a therapist, I'd say,

don't you make these choices, Scott? My worst day is most people's best day, but I'm a nomad, but it's not being, I wouldn't qualify as a digital nomad. A digital nomad is someone in ad tech. I'm super excited to be next to you in the old folks home, the two of us. You're gonna be wheeling me around, are you kidding?

Yeah, I am. I make sure people stay away from you, they don't grab your junk. People are gonna have to look over my head and over the back of the wheelchair to see you. But you're gonna be pushing me around. Don't touch his junk, I'm protecting him. Fitching at me.

Where is his applesauce? Where is it? Change his catheter. He's in a bad mood. Oh, I will take such good care of you, Scott. I will die like in seconds and you will be weeping. I'm counting on it. It'll be so sad.

I'm counting on it. Anyway. All right, let's bring in our friends of Pivot. Pivot Pivot Pivot Pivot Pivot

Samantha Bee is a comedian, a writer, and a contributor to The Daily Beast. Joanna Coles is the chief content officer for The Daily Beast. Together they host The Daily Beast podcast. Sam and Joanna, welcome. Thank you so much for having us. It's so fun to be here. I know. We're having a podcast fest here.

It's been one week since the elections. We're mostly past the initial hot takes. Let's hear your colder takes. So, why don't you start, Sam? Well, I, you know, when it first happened, I was a little comatose, I will say, that I kind of, I had wrung out all of my emotion. I could not summon a single tear. And then I kind of hibernated for about 24 hours. And today I woke up feeling very much like we need to straighten our spines, stiffen up titanium, and just get really fucking real. I definitely changed. I will say that I did this. I'm changing my voting status. I'm changing my party affiliation to independent,

just as a little unsubscribed subscribe. That'll show them. You know, that'll show them. You go. That'll show them. You are such a gangster. You can be on CNN panels now. I don't know who I'm gonna vote with.

I know, exactly. I'm not really, it's not that I'm like GOP curious and more like a little Democrat celibate, I think. That'll be my empty gesture for the next eight years. She's coming over to the libertarian side. No, stop it. Libertarian lames. No, no, no.

Actually, the numbers aren't quite as impressive as people. They're putting out all the numbers today, which they won fair and square, but the numbers are a little closer than they thought. Wait, hold on, Kara. Just let me describe exactly what happened. They fucking destroyed us, Kara. They went seven for seven in the swing stage. Yes, I understand, but the actual,

I get it, but the act, I will send them to you, Scott. The actual results are they won everywhere where it mattered. That's called winning by landslide. I understand that, but it's not a landslide. Again, I keep sending you landslide numbers. 100% no is the wrong word. They run in the right places is where you did it. Go ahead.

That's like saying I had a landslide because my PSA is low, but my cholesterol is fucking off the charts. Yeah, but you don't have a landslide. If a football game is like 32 to 28, it's not a landslide. Anyway, Joanna, let's talk about you. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, it's a total number of votes in the Blue Wall states actually

that they won by fewer than the number of people who canceled their subscriptions to the Washington Post. Yeah, that's a good. Thank you, Joanna. Go ahead. How are you feeling? Clever, obviously. Well, I, well, in my dreams, I feel clever. I feel slightly more optimistic than Sam does,

partly because I spent some time with people who've spent some time with the Trump transition team. And they say that Donald Trump's motivation is he's got two things that are driving him. One, obviously immigration. And he wants to make a big deal of that. And there will be lots of photo opportunities of that. And then like everything else he touches, it'll slightly fall apart. Um, that he really wants to work on the economy, but actually what he really wants to do is have a good time. He's been, he's spent the last four years with the threat of jail over him.

That goes away now. Um, he can't believe what he's spent the last four years with the threat of jail over him. That goes away now. He can't believe what he's pulled off. He spent the last few days having world leaders call him and business leaders call him and say, well done. He's in his happy place. He wants to be admired. He wants to be king of the world. He wants to sit behind his Oval Office desk and have people come and kiss his ring.

That's what he wants. So Rumspringer in the White House. We can all look forward to that. That'll be exciting. Yeah, Rumspringa. Yeah, interesting. But he has brought some characters with him that will cause him trouble.

But anyway, we'll talk about it in a minute. We talked a lot on our show about how it was a podcast election. We've said that on Pivot quite a bit. And Trump going on the right wing and Manosphere podcast. What do you think about the role? We debated it back and forth. I think it's a little bit overblown, but true as we're doing rather well and growing and doing well financially. And at the same time, Mark Cuban posited it was a

little more complex than that. It's about sort of that reverse engineering algorithms to reach people. So how do you think liberals can and should compete in the space moving forward? Joanne, first. Well, if I were Carmilla, I would have done the Joe Rogan podcast. It was unfathomable to me that she didn't do that and that she didn't fly and go down there and kiss the ring of this man that's got extraordinary reach. And also, I think, you know, people like the fact that it goes on and on and on. I mean, I'm impressed that people have time to listen to it, but obviously they break it up over days, or at least hours.

But to have a proper conversation with someone to actually try and get to know them, which is not what traditional media does, that has people on and just tries to get them. on and just tries to get them. And I think that that's one of the mistakes of the legacy media interviews, that there's always this sense of hostility. And Scott, you're living in London at the moment. The BBC has led the world in this. I mean, there was a wonderful, but very controversial interview called Jeremy Paxman, who once asked the same politician the same question 32 times. He just kept asking the question to try and break the politician down. And in the end, I think it's self-defeating because the audience sees it, they don't like it, and you're not getting to know someone better.

It's a really interesting conversation. It's like very hard to think about because as I'm sitting here and we're all talking about this and kind of breaking it down, we're trying to figure out who we're going to have guests, which guests we're going to have on the podcast and what kind of guests and what feels right going into this. It's like creating a constitution for yourself or figuring out what your red lines are too because there are people that I would not, I'm not really interested in having people on and wandering their reputations. Who?

I don't know. I Who? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I know you have a list. Kelly, okay, Kelly and Conway. All right? I'll say it. Like, why have her on? Why have her on?

You see, I think it's interesting to have people on because I want to be able to ask some questions, particularly people I don't agree with. Sam is a bit more, well, when we met to do this podcast, Sam reminded me that she was a fake journalist because she used to play a journalist on The Daily Show, brilliantly, absolutely brilliantly. I always feel that everybody's worth a question, but as long as you can ask an honest question.

I just have a thicker red line around the people I will and will not talk to. Will I have to bend that? What does that mean? What does that look like? I'm trying to figure it out for myself. So you went that Republican convention asking, what's the one that you're looking for, choice?

Remember that was one of my favorite things. Scott? Join the lady pool, Scott. Scott is sitting very respectfully to the side here. The water is so amniotic. Hey, I went to a WNBA game. I love that you worked the word amniotic and some fluid. Fluid.

Go ahead, Scott. Sorry. Joanna, my understanding is you're a large owner in the Daily Beast now. Samantha, you're a contributor to the Daily Beast, is that right, and starting a podcast? So I think of the Daily Beast as this really cute, interesting media property that's hemorrhaged money and makes no sense economically. What are you planning to do to bring in new life and

figure out how the Daily Beast competes in this new media age and is a viable economic entity? Well, what we're interested in is people, politics, power, and pop culture. When there is a space in the market. Do that again. Do that again. I can do it fast.

I can do it slow. I can do it backwards in heels. People power, politics, and pop culture. Oh, wow. Okay. Also penis a little bit, but that's my reading of the place. But go ahead. Well, when appropriate, Cara, when appropriate.

But I would say that we're not, what we're trying to do is rethink how we talk about people and power, which I think people are very interested in. We have a very robust business model. We haven't been valued like Vice or like Buzzfeed at preposterous valuations with all sorts of venture capital money that came in. That's not our business model, but we've got very robust subscription growth. We have advertising by programmatic and brand. We've got events coming. We've got all sorts of plans to actually take the Beast brand,

which is extremely robust, and expand it. So far, it's doing well. I don't think I'm breaking any confidences. It's a nice brand, a lot of awareness. It's a great brand. Tina Brown and Barry Diller started that brand. It's been fantastic. There was a sort of moment when I think it veered into the arm of the resistance, which is not what Ben Show and my partner and I are interested in doing anymore. But I will tell you that we've just had our first profitable quarter.

Oh great, congratulations. I think possibly ever in the history of the beast actually. But I will tell you that we've just had our first profitable quarter. Okay, congratulations. I think possibly ever in the history of the beast, actually. Can you address that pushback from the resistance? You got a pretty tough piece in the New York Times that was tough, I would say, or fair if you thought it was. But talk about the pushback because it seems to be aimed at you and Ben. Well, the pushback was from people who've left. Mm-hmm. That's good. They still can be accurate.

But how did you take it? Did you just say, I just dismiss it and out of hand or? I think what the piece highlighted was that the beast had lost money ever since it had begun and that it had lost audience for the last eight quarters, quarter after quarter. it had lost audience for the last eight quarters, quarter after quarter. Queue on queue, it had lost money and it had lost readers. So I'm not sure that that's a winning strategy. Right.

But is there anything in there that made you pause? When I read criticism, I listen to some of it for sure. I think increase in readership and increase in revenue is extremely encouraging, actually, when you're running a business. Yes, when you're running a business. I would argue that there are worse things than being criticized, a new media property being criticized by the New York Times. I think you want that.

I think that, wear that like a badge of honor. Well, I think what was interesting for us was when you got to the end of the piece, they actually discussed the numbers, which are very positive. So I think what happens in journalism is you talk to people who will talk to you. Obviously lots of people who'd worked here that didn't like our vision for the Beast, which was to make it profitable and successful. Your vision was to fire them. Those are the people who spoke at the time.

Oh, come on. You can't disagree. No, the people who spoke at the time. Oh, come on, you can't disagree. No, that wasn't our vision, actually. Our vision is to grow a business that has more original journalism. That's what we're leaning towards. And you can only do that if you have an economically viable base, and the thing was about to be sold.

That's right. The thing was about to be sold. And it doesn't matter how wonderful a property you are if you're not economically sustainable. Anyways, so Sam, I don't know if you consider yourself a comedian or a commentator. I don't know what I consider myself. I'm just going with the flow to be honest with you. Just considered, just considered?

Yeah. I'm curious how in this, things are so polarized, so angry right now. How have you, if at all, tried to adapt your career in terms of the mediums, the approach you take, how you make money? How has your quote unquote business model changed in the face of how much the environment has

changed and the media landscape has changed? She has also fired everybody too. I was fired. But I knew that I was going to be fired, so it wasn't like a huge surprise, and I had a really good run at my show. My business model has changed in that I now only do things that are pleasing to me personally and professionally because I have the freedom to do that. I am in a privileged position to be able to consider every job that comes along and kind of weigh it against what my own needs and desires are.

Like, I do things that- I have to do podcasts with needy, insulting people. You love it. I completely made you! Anyway, but- I am like Professor Who. Tilly, Tina Fey to her Alec Baldwin. It is so rewarding to rejuvenate a flailing career.

It is so rewarding to rejuvenate a flailing career. It is so rewarding. You are Alec Baldwin and headed that direction, but let's go on. Anyway, let's move on. Good. Tell us about, what is different? Like comedy, like look, you saw Tony Hinchcliffe and the whole group around Joe Rogan,

the bros helping each other. What is comedy now as a business? How do you look at it? Obviously, the Daily Show is doing okay. It's doing to have this group of people that's interesting. It is my greatest pleasure to actually be independent of that world and consume the products that I like to consume and not have to worry about it too much.

I'll tell you, truly, there's no one job that I'm personally gunning for. I really mean it when I say that I do things that interest me. It interests me to do this Daily Beast podcast because I really like Joanna. I think she's spicy and fun. And I love to be at the ground floor when things are rebuilding. That's exciting to me. I'm writing a book. That's exciting to me. There's nothing that I'm doing just for money. I probably should, but I'm not that interested in it. I'm not that interested in re-entering, in trying to re-enter the world of political comedy. If it doesn't, if there's no

place for me in it, that's perfectly fine with me. My life is quite happy and I'm quite happy to be a commentator in this capacity. That's enough for me. It checks that box. Right. But beyond you, what is happening in the comedy world? It's obviously gone TikTok, it's gone social media, there's all kinds of independence, whether it's someone like Louis C.K. or whoever. A lot of these people are doing things on their own. How do you look at the comedy ecosystem now?

It used to be there was a way to go up and you ultimately got the show, right? Or the stand-up show on HBO, etc. Right, right, right. I mean, that is the entire ecosystem is so different. It's very much like it's just spread across so many platforms. People can access whatever it is that they want. People can become a famous comedian in half a year because their TikToks did great and they can suddenly fill stadiums and be doing stadium shows. It is a really super different landscape. And there's also a tremendous amount of hand-wringing about censorship and people trying to stop people's messages from

getting out. And these are all very successful, usually male comedians who make it their business model to pretend that someone's coming for them or their point of view. Obviously it's just not true and it's not something that it's not something that I'm participating in. I'm doing my own show. I literally did a show called How to Survive Menopause because that's really important to me and I think it's so fucking funny and so untapped. I had stuff I wanted to say and I did it. I did it on a stage in front of hundreds of screaming women, and it was exactly where I want to be.

Exactly talking about the self-selecting exact things that I want to talk about. I do think that there's more of an opportunity for that in comedy, and I'm harnessing that opportunity for myself. Men are also interested in how to survive menopause. Oh yeah, you should be. You should come to my show. Scott, you know what? I'll come to your house and I'll do the show

for you in person. You'll love it. You like that, I'll invite some friends over. I attended the show and it was full of middle-aged women throwing their underwear at Sam. Oh, lovely, that's great. Very dry underwear. Very dry underwear.

Oh my God, good job, good job. I'm blushing. There's two things I blush at. Amniotic fluid, once again. All right, Scott, you would blush at the show. You would blush at the show. Yeah. You guys should call your show,

Call Our Granddaddy. Oh. Oh. All right, let's get back to you. I just made that up. That's pretty good. That's good, that's pretty good. That's pretty good.

That was good. Is it though, is it? Yeah, that was good. That was pretty good. It was good. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Is it though? Is it? That was good. That was pretty good. It was good. It was ages but perfect. Can I ask you another question?

My question is more interesting than yours on this topic. All right, go ahead. If it's about the podcast, let's talk about the podcast. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Well, Kara was the first guest on our podcast. I was. We knew that we, first we were a bit like Trump. We wanted to pay homage to the doyen of it.

I'm sure they wanted to ask you Scott, but the invitation was lost in the mail. Well, I think we have an ask out to Scott, but he just ignores my text. It's building from the premier podcast. Anyways, I'm fascinated by the Daily Beast brand. I think it has huge awareness, and I think it has this nice modern cool feel to it.

I always thought the best thing about the brand was, quite frankly, was the design, which I think is has this nice modern cool feel to it. I always thought the best thing about the brand was, quite frankly, was the design, which I think is super important. You could go into podcasts, which you're obviously doing. The cruel truth of capitalism is you have finite resources and the only decision you have to make is not what to do, it's what not to do.

So where are you going to put the majority of your wood behind original journalism? Are you going to do it more around, I would love to see the Daily Beast going to events. Do you want to put a bunch of cool content that's more fun and I don't know, joyous, but gossipy behind a paywall? Like what? I'm just curious. Well, we have a paywall.

I mean, here's the first thing we're doing is right sizing the business, right? I paid for it. Who paid for it? Kara Swishman. Thank you. They complained about your system. Thank you very much, Dara. Yeah, but it's Who paid for it? Kara Swishman. Thank you. I complained about your system.

Thank you very much, Dora. Yeah, but it's much better now because we've changed the tech. I was going to, but I heard the first podcast sucked. Yeah. Well, that was the guess. That was the guess. Look, the first thing we're doing is right sizing the business. We've changed the tech, so hopefully you don't bump up against a paywall or a subscription

that you've paid for that doesn't recognize you. We've changed the content management system. There's a lot of sort of reorganization that needed to happen. It was a 15-year-old business running on a 15-year-old proprietary tech, so we had to change all that. We've done that. So we've got a lot of things coming. We have a sort of three-year plan for expansion of The Beast.

And our ultimate goal is to have lots of original journalism, as well as summaries of other stories going on there, as well as lots of opinions about what's happening out there. And to have a really robust Daily Beast network. But you can't do it overnight. I mean, I was fascinated that New York Magazine did a piece on us two and a half weeks after I'd started saying, why isn't it already done? This is never going to work kind of thing.

A, women get much more critical press than men. But B, it's like, seriously, does anybody know what it's like to turn a company around? This is not the first turnaround I've done. Ben Sherwood, my partner, has done turnarounds too. You have to right size the business before you can do anything. And that's what we're in the process of doing. How are the two of you already discussed with your approach to Trump 2.0 will be? I mean, I'm looking on the Daily Beast page.

There's a lot of Trump. Well, for example, this week we're talking to Adam Grant, the organizational psychologist, about how to deal with polarization in the workplace. Everybody, you know, regardless of whether or not you're working at home or you're working in an office, everybody's aware that you have to be very sensitive around other people's opinions. How do you still work effectively in an environment which may be increasingly polarized? And I think that we actually haven't sat down and had those conversations about

like what do we, what direction do we want to take? I mean, I remember in 2016 when I had my show, we sat down the day after Trump won and we went, the show is totally different now. We don't know what it is, but we know that it is different because the world is very different. So what do we want to do? Like are we just here to plant a flag and say this is right, this is wrong? Like what is the, what is the want to do? Like, are we just here to plant a flag and say, this is right, this is wrong? Like, what is the purpose of this?

And we actually have not sat down to have that conversation, but we will because— What would you say if you had—right off the top of your head right now? What is interesting? Like, you said in your last podcast episode that you're worried about Trump's vengeance and retribution and what it means for the state of journalism, for example. And Daily Beast, by the way, published a piece last week, Trump Loves the Media, Larry, and he also wants revenge. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's a really, I think it's, it's important for us to sit and have this conversation. It's like, I haven't quite gotten to exactly what I do want it to be, but I know what I don't want it to be for myself. Which is? Um. Angry and? I think I'm very willing to have interesting hard conversations with people, but a podcast is a different experience than a straight interview show.

Like do we want to have combative conversations in a podcast? I'm not sure I really want that for myself and I'm not sure an audience is there for it. And it's a, you know, do we, are we offering people something that they can't just get from reading an article? I do think that we, for me, what I love that we do do is we talk to reporters who are reporting on the ground. So I like getting that background information from people and that is something that I think is very useful that we'll take forward.

I'm not sure that we've developed our constitution yet exactly. What about you Joanna? What's interesting how you see Daily B's covering the new Trump era? Well, first of all, I like hearing what Sam has to say because she's always got a point of view and of things. I like asking questions, trying to figure it out. We talk to a lot of people who are both on the Democratic side and on Donald Trump's side, so we try and report what we're hearing.

And we love to cover people. Donald Trump is the most interesting person in the world. He's just pulled off the most extraordinary political comeback that nobody saw coming, he didn't see it coming either. And here was a man who faced, you know, two options, either go to jail or be president of the United States. It's an extraordinary story. And I want to be able to cover that story with all the nuances that we possibly can to talk to all the people who are close to power and report back what they are saying,

what they're feeling, what they're hearing. It's incredibly interesting. It's a massive human drama. I sometimes think we are all just characters, we're extras in his reality show that he's turned America into. And, you know, if you're in the media, it's a fascinating relationship with Trump. He is a tabloid president. The media created him. He had 16 seasons of The Apprentice before he ran. And he's brilliant at knowing how to get attention. His McDonald's gag was brilliant. His garbage vest was brilliant. He understands media. And if you're in the media, it's very interesting to pay attention. And he's not a regular politician. He's an entertainer first.

He has fans, not just voters. And I think this is partly what the Democrats fail to really understand about him, that they were doing business as usual and he's not candidate as usual. Yeah, I hate to use the word brilliant with respect to Donald Trump. I think instinctive is more.

So just so I can virtue signal, I like the Daily Beast, but I love Joanna Cole's. Can you guys see this? I just signed up for the ad free model. Aw. Thank you, thank you Scott. You see? $110.

Thank you sir, thank you sir. This Joey Bagadonis podcast called Pivot better pay off at some point. Anyways, my question is, Johnna, you've been in media for a long time. Sam, you've been in media on the content side. Well, I guess you're on the content side as well as the business side, Johnna. But what are some media properties

across anything that you really admire and you think are great role models or even just people who you think are doing a great job leveraging new channels of media. Who do you look, who and what do you look up to in this landscape? You mean other than the pivot podcast? Go on.

We are the earlier. $110. We are the earlier. $110. Obviously, obviously pivot. I love the information. I think Jessica Lessin saw a gap in the market which covering tech other than Cara. Cara been doing this forever, but I think what

Jessica's done with the information is really good. Tina Brown, former editor of the Daily Beast has a very good substack. There's so much out there. There's just not enough time. What about you, Sam? What do you consume? I identify like a gap in the marketplace, because I miss Gawker. I still miss Gawker. That was a spicy way for me to get everything I needed at the beginning of every day. I liked it.

It was fun to read when it was at its best. When it was at its best. I like when they ruined people's lives for clicks for no fucking reason. Well, I didn't like that part necessarily, but it was a snarky, fun way to start the day. Or interesting. Let her have her choice, Scott. Go ahead. Sorry.

No, it's over. I lost my train of thought. I see you ruined it. You know what I mean. You ruined it. I did not predict that Sam Bee would be a Gulk of fun. I would. I could see why.

And when it was doing the interesting stuff, you're absolutely right. But look, Elon Musk has done it 26 times by tweeting at people, whether it's the old Roth or whatever. So just saying. Yeah, and we're so kind to him. You're right.

Double standard. You're right. Okay, fine. I liked part of it. Sam, I get it. When Gawker was at its best before, I do agree it degenerated in a way that was really ugly. But when it was at its best, it would make me laugh out loud. All right.

Last question. If you, you know, when you're thinking about the next year of what you're gonna be doing here and what you're doing, is there, besides Trump, is there anything else that's interesting to each of you? Joanna, what's interesting to you? Is it all Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump? Well, you know what I'm gonna be really interested in next year, and I think this

is going to be a huge story, is assuming it comes to trial and he doesn't do a plea deal is the Diddy story. How that happened in plain sight with all these celebrities who we know were there, how he managed to use celebrities as air cover for these freak offs where he was drugging people. I mean, Scott, maybe you can explain to me why is it- Scott, freak offs. I know.

I'm not holding you up. I'm not holding you up. Can't wait for this. But the thing I don't understand in any of this is... This is called setting me up for failure. So not. Scott, I am your biggest fan. But I'm very curious. One of the big differences, I think, I hope, between... Well, one of the differences I observe between men and women is, I don't understand why people want to have sex with people when

they are drugged and unconscious. Where is the pleasure in that? And you're asking me because you think I'd be able to explain that? Oh, because you're a guy. And I feel like this is something men do. Men, there are no stories of women doing this right now. I'm going to jump to the defense of men in general. This is not a common. This isn't a guy or a girl thing. This is a criminal psychotic behavior thing. So smarter.

Okay, that makes me feel better. A male, most likely a male district attorney will put him in front of a male prison guard very soon, correctly. Okay, that makes me feel better. I'm not Auntie Men, I even gave birth to two men. Explain us the rapey nature of men. What is it? Thank you. Next.

Go, Anne, 30 seconds. Answer. Okay, 30 seconds. Sam, you end up trying to get us out of that situation. I can't get us out of that. That's actually what I'm here for in the next year. I'm like- Segway out. Listen, that's going to be one hell of that situation. I can't get us out of that. That's actually what I'm here for in the next year. I'm like, I- Suck way out. Listen, that's going to be one hell of a story.

It's a hell of a story. That Diddy story is one hell of a story. Agreed. I'm just, I'm actually here for, I want to talk about the Diddy story too. And I'm here for Joanna and her shameless approach to interviewing. And I'm here to have fun. I want to, of course we're going to talk about Trump, of course we're going to talk about the stuff that he does.

But it's not like the world stopped spinning. It's not like other stories don't emerge and we want to talk about those things too, because the one thing that I can't not be is completely interested in the news cycle at all times of the day or night, whether I'm on TV or on a podcast. And so I think it TV or on a podcast.

And so I think it's like an exciting opportunity. Anyway, thank you, Samantha Bee and Joanna Coles, and be sure to listen to the Daily Beast podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Thanks. Thanks, Sam. Thanks, Joanna. All right, Scott, that was fun with the ladies.

We should do a quadruple. Quintuple, quadruple? A quadruple? Oh, wait. Quadruple. What's it called? Not a thruple. What do you mean. Quadruple? A quadruple? Oh, wait. Quadruple. What's it called? Not a thruple. What do you mean, like a foursome?

I'm down. I'm down. Polycule. Oh. A polycule? Oh, I like that. They're both attractive women. Anyway, we'll be back for wins and fails.

You're a very attractive Manscott Galloway. Thanks for that. Support for Pivot comes from Life360. The holiday season can be joyful, but it can also come with a lot of to-dos and unnecessary baggage. Parties, families, work functions. The list goes on and on and with everything that's happening. It can be difficult to keep track of the people closest to you, especially if you're someone with teenage kids. Luckily, the Life360 app can help you keep track of the people closest to you, especially if you're someone with teenage kids.

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That's anthropic.com slash Claude. Support for the show comes from HubSpot. Picture this. You're at a party and someone asks you what you do as a marketer. How do you even begin to describe it? You have to generate leads, score them, contact them, create content, gather data, and tomorrow, do it all again.

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hubspot.com slash marketers to learn more. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. You know, I have two wins. I need more wins. This has been a, there's just no getting around it. This has been a rough week for me. I'm not even sure why, because I know rationally nothing's ever as good or as bad as it seems. And I think personally, I don't think my life's

going to be affected that much, but I was just so invested in this and just so wrong about it. There's just no getting around it. This has really rattled me more than any other election outcome. And I struggle, I'm easily, you know, it's not easy to send me down to a pretty dark place. And I have a whole host of things that make me feel better.

And a couple of new things have actually made me feel better shockingly. And I hate to admit it, but I wanna call balls and strikes. One of those things is threads. I've actually really enjoyed threads and I found a lot of really interesting content on it. And I hate to say anything nice about meta, but threads has been nice for me this week. And then-

People like to bang on it. And I got to say it's actually, you know, it depends on your algorithm, but the one you put this week up of solace with a picture of Carrie Lake covered by Vaseline. Made me laugh so hard. Anyway. But the other thing is I've really been enjoying,

I found a lot of moments of peace in music. There was two pieces of my friends. It's so funny, I've been finding some respite or moments of peace in music, and my friends have been sending me, they of course listen to all this stuff. So they've been sending me all these different songs, like I love this one, and two really stuck been sending me, they of course listen to all this stuff. So they've been sending me all these different songs, like I love this one.

And two really stuck out for me. And that is I'm not a huge Pearl Jam Eddie Vedder fan, as in I'm not a fan, but he did a cover of the English beat song, Save It For Later. And it's so lovely and we're gonna play it now. ["Save It For Later"] lovely and we're going to play it now. Two dozen other dirty lovers,

boy must be a sucker for it. Cry but I don't need my mother, just hold my hand while I go stumbled across, I think on threads, these three young men, they look as if they're in high school, they're probably in college, and I think they're called Penelope Road. It's a cover of Ventura Highway, which I think is by the band America.

They do a highway, they're not that one, right? Yeah, it sounded exactly like that. I can't tell the difference. Um, but it was so nice because it was highlighting these three lovely young men. And it was, one of the wonderful things about, you know, going over the internet is just, I never would have found it had it not been served up to me.

The algorithm said, figured out this guy could use a little Simon and Garfunkel like good sheer. How long you gonna stay here, Joe? Some people say this town don't look good. But anyways, my win is the Eddie Vedder cover of Save It For Later and the cover of Ventura Highway, America's Ventura Highway by these wonderful young men from a band called Penelope Road.

Those are my wins, Kara. Those are lovely. I love that song Ventura Highway. That's a beautiful version of it. It reminded me, my friend Lee Lotus and I used to go to Vegas and his Red Jetta and then we'd get $40 from the Ready Teller and we'd head to Las Vegas and we'd listen to the English beat album.

Was it Save It for Later? Anyways, I forget the name of the album, but it just took me back to this such a fun time in college. It does. Songs have so much. I went on, I told you that podcast, Seven Life and Seven Songs. I wish you'd go on it. It was so eye-opening to me what songs I

picked and how they made me feel that way again. It's a great San Francisco standard podcast that I loved, that I just loved being on. It was so much fun. Okay. So I think my win is Kerry Lake losing in Arizona. Couldn't- Oh, word my sister. Word. Worst politician. I think I don't like her more than Trump. I can't believe it. It's not because she's a woman. She's just a hateful person. And in a, so was he, but just a different thing. I don't know. I look, people get mad at me for that,

but I was, I found pleasure in that. I found pleasure in that for some reason, because she just, I want her to stop being so terrible as a person. And, and I think Meghan McCain like slapped her around loser, keep loser, get look, keep losing or something like that. Get onto the loser highway or whatever. Not a fan of Meghan McCain either, but she was vile about her dad. Anyway, that was a win for me. I know it sounds crazy. And the pyramid I say is, I just talked to you about this just earlier off the record, but I think I've noticed on threads particularly, is a lot of people getting up again, which is what Sam talked about.

And I understand Trump won in the right places, but just keep in mind, and I've said this to Scott, Biden's margin with Trump was 7 million votes, 4.5 percentage points, and Trump's margin with Harris was 2 million votes, 1.3 percentage points. And it's not the landslide. They won in all the right places and they did get the House in the Senate. I'm not sure they're going to, we'll see. Well the House, well has that been called yet? In any case, they're probably going to get it. Just 250 votes.

This is an interesting statistics. About 1.5% in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, the difference between 226 electoral counts and 270 for Harris. At the Senate level, Democrats won those states in ag group by about 10k votes, which means nominally 260k likely now remorseful ticket splitters and protest fights in the blue states put Trump in office. You cannot discount those those pro- he doesn't have them in the bag, that's all I'm saying. So it was a much closer race and so you should be taking all you

Democratic politicians to take this stuff, both beat yourself up, but also learn from the data. I think it's a really complex and interesting result as we get more and more information. But the one thing that I think that Scott got right is the winner podcast, the loser knocking on doors. I think that was something that the Democrats absolutely fucking miss like crazy. So that would be, I guess my fail. I just pay attention, pay a lot more attention. It's a little, everything's a little more complex

than the hot takes you're gonna make about this. And that's a good thing. And we'll see where he goes with this, but I think probably they have the right idea. He wants to just, girls just want to have fun. And so we'll see if that would be the best case scenario. The worst case is all of his terrible things he said on the trail that he does. In any case, I would recommend going to see Wicked as I recommended before. It's a wonderful, perfect movie for what's coming up.

Also Moana too, which I will be going to and Gladiator too. But I think Wicked just captures the feeling right now. And I'll just end on this is, is there's a line I was giving a speech and this woman was really bereft about what had happened. And they're like, is Elon Musk, you know, he's smarter than me. He's going to do this. They were particularly, is Elon Musk, he's smarter than me, he's going to do this. They were particularly triggered by Elon Musk because he's so terrible a personality

to be out there in front of Trump. He's so crude and obnoxious and look at me and powerful and everything else. He does feel like a character in a Patrick Swayze movie where he's Patrick's going to take him down eventually. But one of the things, there's a line in Wicked that she sings. There's a line that's very famous from Defying Gravity, which is the big song for girls and everybody in the musical.

She goes, I think the line is, no wizard that there is or was is ever going to bring me down. That's how you all should feel. He's not the wizard you think he is, and he represents a lot of things. So they're not going to bring you down. That's what I say to my fans out there. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. We talked about so many

good things today. I do enjoy talking to Scott Galloway. It's one of the highlights of my day. I appreciate that. Thank you for saying that. It's really interesting as we struggle forward. We don't always agree, but we know how to disagree. That's our new motto in case you're interested. That's right. Scott, that's the show.

We'll be back on Friday for more. Read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Severio, and Dan Shulon. Nishak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot New York Magazine and Vox Media.

You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, have a great rest of the week. Support for this episode comes from AWS. AWS Generative AI gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Food insecurity still affects millions of individuals around the globe. And Nestle, a global leader in nutrition, health and wellness,

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