Pivot - Strike Winners & Losers, Disney's ABC Decision, and Guest Benyamin Cohen

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Kara and Scott discuss the Jann Wenner controversy, and the new management term "feedforward." And as the "summer of strikes" marches into the fall, they talk about the State of the Unions. Then, is Disney selling off ABC? And would that be the end of linear television? Our Friend of Pivot is Benyamin Cohen, the author of, "The Einstein Effect: How the World's Favorite Genius Got into Our Cars, Our Bathrooms, and Our Minds," who also happens to be the man behind the official Albert Einstein accounts on social media. You can follow Benyamin at @benyamincohen and Albert Einstein at @alberteinstein. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for Pivot comes from Virgin Atlantic. Too many of us are so focused on getting to our destination that we forgot to embrace the journey. Well, when you fly Virgin Atlantic, that memorable trip begins right from the moment you check in. On board, you'll find everything you need to relax, recharge, or carry on working. Buy flat, private suites, fast Wi-Fi, hours of entertainment, delicious dining, and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. delicious dining and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. Check out virginatlantic.com for your next trip to London data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Listeners of this show can get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash podcast.

Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And if I find a time machine, I'm going back to the age of 17, and I am so dating Representative Lauren Boebert. She is literally my dream date. Hold on. Senior in high school, imagine getting a date with a woman who, first off, takes you to see Beetlejuice the play. All right? Right there you've won. Okay, yeah. Musical. The musical. Let's you grab her boobs, jacks you off, all while vaping. She's literally every 17-year-old boy's dream come true.

I think she should be. Yeah. I think she should get a medal. I think this is wonderful. I think she's doing a real service. It just shouldn't be on 45-year-old men who own gay-friendly bars. I'm not sure what the term gay-friendly means. It should be. Drag shows. Ohold men who own gay-friendly bars. I'm not sure what the term gay-friendly means. It should be—

Drag shows. Oh, my God. I just— This is a feature, not a bug. Hats off to her. I knew you would love Lauren Boebert. I knew you'd like the whole thing. That was aggressive boob grabbing.

I kept thinking that. Everyone was sort of, like, focusing on the vaping and the who-do-you-think-I-am. But I was like, that guy was really giving those a workout. Did you notice that? Yeah, but you know what, Kiera? If she was really patriotic, she'd jerk off guys in Hamilton. That's good. That's good.

All joking aside, I did a lot of the retweeting of all the very funny memes. What's great? A date where you get a handjob and you get kicked out of the theater. That's fantastic. Like, you don't and you get kicked out of the theater. That's fantastic. You don't have to watch the end of the musical. But a lot of people were like, it's very serious. There are children involved. There were. Oh, come on.

I know, but I think the children in the theater are going to be just fine. Yeah, probably. I wouldn't have loved my child next to her doing that. That said, I raised my children in the Castro and there were naked people everywhere. So go ahead, sir. Yeah.

No, I think everyone's going to be just fine here. What's the impact on her campaign? She did apologize. I can't think it's good. Or is it good? Because I vaguely liked her better from it. Yeah, but we're the wrong people to like her. Yes, you're right.

The people that she needs to like her are the people who show up to— She's got a really unusual district. You know her district? Aspen. Yeah. That's where she met this dude. That's where his bar is, Hooch's or Hoochie Mama's or something like that. Have you been there? Are you on Hooch's? Hooch's, yeah. Hooch. Oh, I think I have. Well, he owns Hooch. I have been there. Hooch. Hooch. You went to a bar called Hooch? I've done much worse, Kara. And by the way, can we all stop pretending to like Hamilton? I loved Hamilton.

Yeah. Well, of course we all do, Kara. Anyways, look, the strange thing is... Gonna take my shot! Go ahead. Sorry. So I love Aspen and have bought a home there and plan to maybe someday retire there. You'd have another home. Yet another Scott Galloway home that I'll be staying at. It's this podcast. Yeah, that's why I bought it. We want to see more of you.

So she, and then I found out, literally, I kind of thought twice about whether I want to live in Aspen. She's our representative because as is the case with the corrupt vehicle that is gerrymandering, they create these perverted, unnatural districts. And she covers a pretty conservative part of Colorado. And then it jets out and covers Pitkin County, which is where Aspen is. I cannot think of a place where Lois Boebert would be more of a fish out of water than Aspen. Right. I know. Well, the other guy on the Aspen Council almost beat her, like 500 boats, and that was it. And that's all she wrote. I know. Well, the other guy on the Aspen council almost beat her like 500 boats and that was it. And that's all she wrote. But the net effect, I think he will beat

her this time. I can't imagine her core constituency finds this amusing. No, I don't think so at all. Although we do. We find it very amusing. We find the entire thing amusing. It made for, Twitter suddenly became fun over the weekend, but then not. That was it? Yeah, but Threads was fun too. It was everywhere. All of social media became fun over the weekend. Once again, because she really does, you know, she does provide a lot of content and other things for people. It was really fun.

I still can't get over the boob grabbing. That was some boob grabbing. I want to meet that guy now. We should go. Let's go to Hooch's when I come and stay at your house. It's great. If it's the bar I'm thinking about, it's actually, it's really good. Yeah, I don't know why I would know that name.

Anyway, we have a lot to talk about besides Lauren Boebert's breast fondling and hand jobbing. Today, we'll talk about the latest strike updates and what they mean for labor. Disney possibly saying goodbye to ABC and linear television. And we'll talk with a friend of Pivot, Benjamin Cohen, about his new book, The Einstein Effect, how the world's favorite genius got into our cars, our bathrooms, and our minds, and what it's like to manage Albert Einstein's official accounts on social media. Anyway, Scott, have you listened to my Walter Isaacson interview about his biography?

I haven't, but I will, but I'd like you to talk about it. What were the most interesting moments? I think it's interesting. I went to a book party for him last night in Washington, which had all of official Washington. It was crazy. Was it at the French embassy? It was at the Renwick Gallery. And one of its big donors, David Rubenstein, ran it through the party. It was actually a lovely party, but everybody was there.

And I ran it to Nancy Pelosi, who actually insulted Elon right in front of Walter. And then she came up. She goes, is that mean? I go, Nancy, you knew just what you were doing. She was, she does not like Elon Musk. I, let me tell you about it. I asked him a lot of things. I was questioned some of his sourcing of trusting Elon so much. I asked him all the questions about why he left out all the racist, sexist, misogynist, anti-Semitic stuff. I asked him about that and what he thought. I think he stuck to his guns on a lot of stuff. He did cop a plea, he said, on a number of things that he got wrong, including the Starlink stuff. And I did manage to get him to admit that he has an opinion about Elon Musk, which was one of my issues with the book, is that he acted like a camera and never would tell us what the photograph looked like. You know,

you can only for so long not come to a conclusion after you've spent with someone for two years. He does not come to a conclusion in the book except he said, he said, he said, he said kind of thing. We talked about that. He came and answered questions. I can't say we agreed a lot. came and answered questions. I can't say we agreed a lot. He has this vision of Elon as a Shakespearean, you know, character who is full of conflict and complexity. And I have a version of Ms. Squidward on SpongeBob SquarePants,

except red pilled. So, and that, that he should, he should have an opinion. And I think of course, last night, right before it was about to drop, Elon did another anti-George Soros thing, which was crazy.

A crazy tweet about that. And I sent it to Walter. I go, Walter, he's not a Shakespearean actor. He's just a really terrible person. Let me play a clip. I asked him about what he thought about Elon personally and even mentioned you, Scott. So let's listen to a clip. personally and even mention you, Scott. So let's listen to a clip.

Am I supposed to tout up all the times I liked and respected and all the times I flinched? Yes. Yeah, it was. Let me give you an easier, Scott Galloway calls an idolatry of innovators that excuses cruelty, that excuses antisemitism, excuses misogyny, excuses being quite frankly, not an ideal father, as long as you're really fucking rich. Is it an apologist not to come to a conclusion or not? You may disagree with me. No, I mean, I come to a lot, and I let the reader come to a lot of conclusions in this

book, which is a lot of the things. Look, you've read those Twitter chapters. What he did, the hypocritical things of trying to ban, you know, reporters on the Washington Post after he says he's for free speech. A lot of those things he does, I think, clear. It's not me apologizing for him. Anyway, it went on like that a lot. He sort of wants it both ways. He equivocates on Musk a lot and every now and then says, but he built a rocket, that kind of thing, which he did, which he did.

I didn't, I'm not denying any of those. It's just, I don't think the price, I think the price is too high. And then we had a back and forth, in fact, last night where he said, Kara thinks, has an opinion about these people. I decide just to let the reader decide. And I said, the issue I have is you think that you have to be an asshole to be impactful on society in some way. And he said, well, I think that's the case. I said, there's a lot of people who aren't. And I turned to my right, and Steve Case is standing right there. And I said, here's someone who's not an asshole who had a big impact. And Steve laughed, and I said, well, Steve, it's a low bar, but nonetheless. And I said, there's roomfuls of people like that here and elsewhere.

So it was an interesting discussion. I'm glad to refer to you. I would argue that Walter does have an opinion, and he presents that opinion over 700 pages incrementally and powerfully. And that is that this person's cruelty and diminishment of special interest groups and, quite frankly, just unproductive, reckless actions that really hurt people, I would argue that Walter does have an opinion that it's a function of childhood trauma that excuses it. In the book, there's this thing where, you know, according to Elon, he went to this very tough school where he was bullied and he immediately learned how to punch back. I'm going to be honest,

I think that's total fucking bullshit. I went to, what do you know, a story that excuses his mendacious, cruel behavior, but also makes him look like a hero as a kid who was bullied and punches back. And I don't know the school he went to, but, like, I went to a fairly rough junior high and high school. And there wasn't a lot, I mean, there was some bullying, but there wasn't a lot of need to, like, it just doesn't ring true to me. It doesn't excuse it. I agree. Actually, we had a back and forth about that because there is, it opens, the book opens on that, about being beaten up. And he talks about a kid he beat up having to do with this kid's father. This guy beat him up and Elon and his brother insisting this guy was a bad seed. He went to

juvie, et cetera, et cetera. And I asked Walter if he called the kid and he hadn't, he hadn't called the kid. I asked him if he checked juuvie, and he hadn't checked. So, it was a he said, he said, and that was my issue. I was like, someone's lying here, someone, and I don't know which one. But you made the father look like a demon, and so Elon's getting a huge amount of the sympathy. I just want you to check to which one, and it's fine if Elon's telling the truth. I just want to know who is telling the truth. And that was my issues. But with research, when you try to normalize external factors to say if they impact something, you control for it. And the way we can control for this is that we have his siblings. His brother Kimball likely experienced the same environment,

the same abusive father, the same schools that were bullying. And guess what? I don't know Kimball, but I've been at events with him, and he strikes me as a fairly mellow, nice, lovely guy. He is lovely. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say- He loves his brother too much, but yes, he is indeed. Well, that's a term for that brother, right? Right, yeah. And then there's his siblings. So, okay, that does not cause this. That is not an excuse for this behavior.

As a matter of fact, I would argue he has less of an excuse to behave this way because of his incredible blessings and success and the power he wields. So, to say that I just don't buy that Walter let people decide. So to say that I just don't buy that Walter let people decide. No, Walter came into this with what I'll call a creeping makeover of Elon Musk's persona. And I think it really, as we do in society, and I don't even know if Walter realized he was doing it, we're just so fucking fascinated with people who can figure out ways to make billions of dollars leveraging zeros and ones that we want to let their victories burn brighter andinsky, who knows a thing or two, as I do, about access journalism. And he wrote a review for the information that I think is a must read. I think it's quite fair. He's a colleague and friend of Walter's, as am I. I like Walter personally. And I want to stress that. And I've liked a lot of his work, a lot of it. And I think his Ben Franklin thing was fantastic. You know what struck me? Let me just tell you, back to Lauren Boebert, because that's where we all should be living, is who knew theaters were like surveilling people so well? I thought that was shocking.

Thank you. And you know, the theater was like, fuck this bitch. We're going to just release. Sorry. Oh my God. They watch us all. I like, I have to be. We're going to just release. Sorry. Oh, my God. They watch us all. I have to be careful about what I do in theaters. I think I just sit there. Did you see how much she lied afterwards, though, saying I was not disruptive? Oh, totally.

But that they are watching us. They are watching us in the theater. I now am very aware. I don't do much. I eat. I secretly eat from things I brought outside. Now they know I do it. I bring out, bring in like malt balls. Now I'm a secret eater. They're quiet foods, but nonetheless. I'm safe because I don't go to anything cultural. Yeah. Okay. Well,

there you have it. Anyway, I was astonished by the quality of their technology. Anyway, Jan Wenner, co-founder of Rolling Stone Magazine, speaking of douche, has been removed from the board of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation. The ousting came one day after an interview for the New York Times where Wenner comments were criticized being sexist and racist. And indeed they were. The interview was surrounding the release of Wenner's book, The Masters, which is a collection of his decades of interviews with rock stars, all of whom are white and male. When asked why no women or people of color included at all, Wenner said, the women, quote, just weren't articulate enough on this intellectual level. And the people of color, quote, didn't articulate at that level either. Wenner is part of a group that started the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation in 1983,

has since been criticized for its lack of diversity of the artists it inducts, with 65% of the inductees being white men and just 7.7% being women as of 2019. What a stupid thing to say. Just, you know, I think what he's saying now is it's my opinion in my book, which, okay, you're still, you can't find, Tina Turner, Joni Mitchell, he actually insulted Joni Mitchell. You know, you could go through dozens of really amazing women, you know, whether you like Taylor Swift or not, important, articulate, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know. It just sort of reminds me of how much he got to control the narrative around these people becoming saviors and saints versus really finding all kinds of interesting artists we could look at. finding all kinds of interesting artists we could look at. I don't know. I just am like, none of them? That to me was sort of like, are you drunk?

Are you stupid? I don't know. I just thought it was a self-owned in many ways. And he could have any opinion he wants, but he's stupid. He seems stupid. My favorite rock and roll artists were R.E.M. and I don't know if you call George Michael rock and roll, but at least half of them were women as I look back like junior high that era. Yeah, Patti Smith. Patti Smith, come on.

Deborah Harry. Yeah. Pat Benatar. Pat Benatar. Stevie Nicks. Yeah, Stevie Nicks. So there were, well, anyways, I mean, I don't think anyone's arguing that. And by the way, Supertramp, who I thought were women until I found out they weren't.

So that was totally unfair. I was going to grow up and marry the lead singer of Supertramp, and then I found out they're all dudes. But not that there's anything wrong with that. Okay. But I think my impression is that this was right in the sense that you had this old white dude who's grown up in a life of privilege. He has some incredible accomplishments. He was one of the co-founders of the Rock and Roll Off. He was, yeah, yeah.

And then as some old out-of-touch dude, he says these really stupid things. And they said, you know what? You shouldn't be a fiduciary responsible for governing the decisions of this important institution. And they removed him. And then he apologized and said, and his apology kind of read as authentic. It didn't feel like something that was a PR gangbang. So I felt like this whole thing kind of played out as it should. Yep. And so, you know, next. Yeah. Great. Agreed. It was stupid, John.

He fucked up. He paid the price. Fucked up, paid the price. Now we're moving on. Okay. Also, speaking of which, about feedback, feed forward is a new work term. Ied up, paid the price. Now we're moving on. Okay, also speaking of which about feedback, feed forward is a new work term. I know this is driving you crazy. According to article published in the Wall Street Journal, some employers are saying feedback is on the way out to make way for a less anxiety-inducing corporate lingo,

feed forward. Examples include AstraZeneca, which changed its review process in 2020 to embrace feed forward and performance development with performance management. And Microsoft, where feedback is branded as perspectives and anonymous comments from peers, are no longer part of the review process. I got to say, I went MAGA on this one. I was like, feedforward? Are you fucking kidding me, Scott? Though you, I'd love to hear what you think of this. I don't think we're doing young people any favors. So, now granted, I have a bit

of an abused child syndrome, and that is my first job out of UCLA was at Morgan Stanley, where they prided themselves on being abusive. And I don't think that was right. You had to be there before anybody else. You couldn't leave till after anyone else. And the only thing- How did that work? Because someone is always last if everyone had to be there before anybody else. Well, a senior to you. So, the analysts would have to stay until the associates, the vice presidents, the managing directors had all left. And the only thing I was known for, because I wasn't nearly as well-educated or smart or hardworking as everybody else, was every Monday morning, I would go into, or was it Tuesday? I would go on Tuesday morning and I would stay till Wednesday

night. I would work the night through. And they rewarded that type of behavior. They thought that was impressive, and it showed commitment. And I'd work 36 hours straight because I had that ability. I was young. I was strong. I didn't have anyone waiting at home for me. I stayed late at the post, too. But go ahead.

Yeah. It wasn't required. It was abusive. But I don't think we're doing young people. Let me back up. I'll tell you what I do as a manager, and then I'll do a thought. I think young people need watering. I think constant feedback, both positive and what I'll call constructively negative, is really important. And the thing that

I think is really damaging about not being in an office together is something we have always done at my firms, is whenever something did something good or not good, I would pull them into a conference room and I would say, you know, you should keep doing that. When you said that and you had the data, that was fantastic. Or the fact that you came out and welcomed, I- Is that feed forward? Well, okay, but I would also bring them into a room

and I would say, you're speaking just to hear yourself talk in meetings and you're not saying anything. And also you need to, or I would say, this report, this data you just sent me, is literally worthless. It's literally worthless. And this reads like someone who needed to have a 2,000-word essay and you got 200 words of insight. Don't send me shit like this again. And I would use those exact same terms. What I find is the younger you are, the younger the person is, the more you have to bias towards watering and positive. Because these are young people. And after a while, then it's like, what the fuck?

Then it's just give it to them straight because they need straight feedback such that they can feed their families and have good careers. But I think this whole notion, I do think it's gone a little bit far where we've decided, so mental health is important, but you need a certain skill set. And I think we want to use so many sanitary wipes on young people's careers that they don't develop their own immunities. They don't develop calluses. They don't develop a certain level of thick skin. Because I got to be honest, that experience at Morgan Stanley, I think it was really good for me

in the sense that I realized work is hard. People can be jerks. There is a hierarchy. And guess what? When people are mean to you or abusive, you recover from it and you're fine. And I think some of that kick in the ass training I got at Morgan Stanley for two years, I think on a net basis, it was really positive for me. And I worry with young people that we are training them to believe the world is different than it is. Yeah, I agree. I think about that. That's how I look at it too. And I think you do that with kids too. You don't sugar. You be supportive when necessary and clear and honest when not, you know, in some levels.

It's, you know, I thought this was stupid. I think it was a little bit of clickbaity when, you know, those newspaper stories that are always like, this is the trend. Like no one's going out after work. I was like, I don't know. I always just saw a lot of people look like they work together at a bar.

It's just like, I don't think you can speak for any big trends ultimately. I hate trend stories. Anyway, I think you're 100% right. Again, Scott, another great insight. Okay, let's get to our first big story. Summer might be coming to an end, but a summer of strikes is still marching on with workers across industries walking off the job or threatening to do so. There have been more than 270 strikes in the U.S. this year and more than 320,000 workers involved, up significantly from the same period in 2021, according to data from Cornell. The latest group to join, as everyone knows, is United Auto Workers, who strike against the big three automakers, Ford, GM and Chrysler parent company Stellantis, began last week with nearly 13,000 workers walking up the job at plants in Ohio, Michigan, and Missouri. That's part of the UAW's targeted strategy.

Not all members are walking off at once. The UAW's demands include a 40% pay increase, expansion of pension plans, and shorter work weeks. Wow, what do you think about this? The numbers of human members is lowest in decades. Since the 1950s, one in three workers were represented by a union. Now it's closer to one in 10. Why do you think there's an increase first, Scott? Why do you think that is? There's enormous empathy for the notion that in the wealthiest economy in the world, in an economy that on most dimensions has continued to have tremendous prosperity. Our stock market is up on a risk

adjusted basis almost more than any G7 market, including China. When employment are historic lows, when young people are having a tougher time buying a home, there's just a general agreement. Oh, and by the way, corporate profits are at an all-time high, but as a share of GDP, wages are at an all-time low. There's just general consensus that we aren't putting enough money in workers' pockets, that labor has been kicked in the nuts over and over by capital, and that work deserves more dignity in the world's wealthiest nation. The problem is rumors of unions' resurgence have been greatly exaggerated, Cara. And that is for all the notion about this hot girl union summer, in 2022,

unions lost membership. I mean, I did some math here. It's about 10 or 11% of all workers. Only 155 million people actually work. I got a lot of shit. I went on CNN and I said, unions are a failed construct. And I got, I don't want to say attacked. That's not fair. I got a lot of feedback saying- Yeah, you got a lot of feed. I got a lot of forward back. Forward back. Because people see that their bona fides as progressive empathetic people is to be pro-union. And I get that, but here's the problem. They're not working. They're not working for the majority of Americans. Yeah, they're not, what have you done for me lately? I think that's what they

really have to answer that question. Now, you told me you thought the strike would end pretty quickly. Do you still think so? Negotiating meetings took place over the weekend, but UAW President Sean Fain, who has such an unfortunate name, it sounds like that Irish group, and Sinn Féin, says progress has been slow. A 21% pay increase offer from Solantis was rejected. They're in the 20s, the companies. The UAW is using a tactic of stand-up strikes, basically calling on segments of the 146,000 members who work at the three big plants to strike at different times, different places, using the element of surprise for leverage, which is interesting. That to me was, this guy seems super creative, Sean Fain. The UAW, just for people who don't know, is demanding a 40% pay increase over four years. GM CEO Mary Bear was on CNN on Friday and was asked about that increase in relation to her own compensation, which increased 34% over four years. Let's listen to what she said for a second, and then let me know where you think the strike is going to come out. Well, if you look at compensation, my compensation, 92% of it is based on performance of the company. I think one of the strong aspects of the way our compensation for our represented

employees is designed is not only are we putting a 20% increase on the table, we have profit sharing. So when the company does well, everyone does well. And for the last several years that's resulted in record profit sharing for our represented employees. And I think you have to look at the whole compensation package, not only 20% increase in gross wage, but also the profit sharing aspect of it, world class health care, and there's several other features. So we think we have a very competitive offer on the table. And that's why we want to get back there and get this done. That was pretty good. I think that was good. I think one of the things that she gets sucked into is if you use that 92%

based on performance, they do look like screw which McDuck's. I think Bob Iger fell prey to that, even though he's mostly paid by stock. So talk first about whether you think it's going to settle quickly and what you think of this argument. Well, there's a lot there. So first off, I think it gets settled within 30 days, probably less, because unlike whoever's running the Riders Guild, the UAW does not have their head up their asses. And that is they are strategic. They are being very thoughtful. They are unified.

They are shutting down plants at critical leverage points. And quite frankly, I think their demands are entirely reasonable. The starting pay for a UAW worker in 2008 was $19. Then we had the great financial crisis, bankruptcies, and they lowered it to $18. And if it had just kept pace with inflation, it'd be about $28 or $29. What they're asking for, in my view, is reasonable. And they've asked for 40%. the auto guys have offered them 20, I think the deal gets settled. The gorilla in the room or the elephant in the room here

is that Tesla, which is now worth more than all of them combined, Yeah, we talked about that last week. has an average hourly compensation rate of $45 an hour or cost, including profit sharing and healthcare. And the American automobile manufacturers

where the UAW is present are producing cars at $65 a share. And one of the reasons why U.S. automakers are trading at a multiple of five times earnings, which basically, when your company is trading at five times earnings, Cara, that means the market has decided there's a really good chance you're going to go out of business. And there's just no getting around it when the majority of the auto industry is not subject to the same compensation pressures, you end up with a bifurcated system where one company is just worth more than others, which goes to my whole go-to, and that is the following. Unions are good, but they're just not effective. And there's a difference between being right and effective.

And if we all believe, if we all believe, if 75% of Americans believe in unions, what they're really saying is we believe in dignity of work. What they're really saying is we believe anyone who works 40 hours a week shouldn't live below the poverty line. We really believe that the people who own shares, including the CEOs of these companies who are making tens of millions of dollars and have seen their compensation go from 30 times the average worker's salary to 300 times the worker's salary that they deserve to at least keep up with inflation and productivity. And the only way you're going to do this, the only way you're going to do this and not have capital flow to the guys who aren't union,

and then all those people get rich, and then the people who were union end up going out of business, the only way you can do this is a federally mandated massive increase in minimum wage. Yep. You have said this. You've been doing this for years. I've been saying this for years, Scott Galloway. Well, let me ask you this. This is my, this is when I do, occasionally I do channel Bernie Sanders.

What would be a more elegant, crisp way of reducing depression, obesity, male abandonment, diabetes, homelessness, divorce? $25 an hour. What would solve more of these problems faster? A rise in minimum wage. Without an increase in the deficit. And by the way, all the- Let me, can I push back? You just said, Elon's $45, they're 65, and now they're gonna have to

pay more? They're fucked, because Elon's not gonna, they haven't been able to organize at Tesla factories at all. And he makes the argument, I'm better for you than they are. So they're just gonna have to increase their costs, everyone but the Elon Musks and the foreign manufacturers. But at 25 bucks an hour, first off, if you look at wages and productivity in America, they were like two snakes intertwined. And that is every time there was an increase in productivity in corporate America for 210 years, wages went up. The market went up and wages went up. Everybody got to share. Capital and labor got to share in increases in productivity. And then in the 70s, wages went flat for a variety of reasons, and productivity went up and to the

right because we prioritized shareholders. So if wages had just kept pace with productivity, minimum wage would be at somewhere between $23 and $28 an hour right now. And this wouldn't make the automobile manufacturers really any less competitive because they're probably going to end up, especially after this, almost all of them, the foreign guys, Tesla, at $25 or more. But this is what you have. You have corporate profits at an all-time high. Yeah. Let me ask you, in response to that interview that she gave, the UAW tweeted, during the eight and a half minutes GM CEO Mary Barra appeared on CNN this morning, she earned more money than any auto worker makes in a full day work,

and that's how the big three want to keep it. Her compensation was $29 million last year for CEO Jim Farley, earned $21 million, and Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares, $25 million. This is a lot of its stock base, let's be clear. How do they deal with that, that visual? Whether people realize it's stock or not is kind of the point. But let me now channel Milton Friedman and Josh Hawley. The reality is in a free market, people will not disarm unilaterally.

They will always negotiate the best compensation they can. And shareholders have decided that getting the right guy or the right gal to make the key decisions is so important and pays off so much for everybody that, and the competition is so fierce to try and find the right guy or gal that can handle the massively intense, difficult job of being a CEO, that that person over time, and plus they get to know everyone on the board and they become their buddy, the CEO compensation has just gone apeshit. And this has happened in auto industry. It's happened in every industry. It's happened in every industry. So I don't know what you can do other than the following.

And that is, if someone makes over, call it a million bucks a year, I think they should pay a 40% federal income tax. And I think if someone makes over $10 million a year, they should probably pay 50. Because this is what you do. The supply and demand, we do need... I don't think the government wants to get in the way of corporations telling how much they can pay people. What they can say is that if you're making this kind of money, we should probably go back to when we reinvested in the middle class, reinvested in innovation such that we could maintain the middle class, and have this strange thing called a progressive tax structure. It could be, in my view, the real crime, if you will,

or tragedy or negative part of Mary Barr's compensation isn't that she's making so much, it's that she's paying lower taxes than those people. I believe in a progressive tax structure, but if you start weighing in and saying to companies you can't pay their CEOs as much, I just don't think it works. I just think they use it as a boogeyman constantly. It's been used quite a lot.

The logical and intuitive counter-argument against raising minimum wage at $25 is that it would put a ton of businesses out of business. And when Washington State, California, and New York raised their minimum wages dramatically, what we actually found was that the economy grew and jobs grew because when you put more money in lower- income households' hands, they do this wonderful thing, they spend all of it. And so just this incumbent notion by corporations and shareholders that it's going to ruin the economy, it's actually the opposite. It actually ends up being stimulus. Some updates to the entertainment front. Bill Maher just posted on Twitter a little while ago that he's not bringing back his show after all, saying,

My decision to return to work was made when it seemed nothing was happening and there's no end in sight for the strike now that both sides have agreed to go back to the negotiating table. I'm going to delay the return of real time for now, and I hope I can finally get this done. All the bigs are meeting with all the bigs like they're the real ones, Iger, the rest of the whole gang. This follows the Drew Barrymore update of the weekend when she said she was going to pause production and not go back following all the backlash. The talk and Jennifer Hudson show were also planning on coming back. But after Drew's announcement on Sunday, they said they're holding off their returns. Does it surprise you that they that they push back, that they decided to change their minds?

Do you think we're seeing some actions or reactions without being factored in? What do you think? Okay. So, Drew and Bill were shamed. They said, look, this is really awful. You're being an awful person. But they effectively ended the strike. And I believe the rider strike is going to end in the next 30 days, if not the next two weeks. Because I know a lot of what I'll call senior level writers and their attitude is, okay, I'm lucky I didn't need the money. But even worse than that, I just lost four months of my career in life. I'm running out of time. And they're saying this is a shit show, that they plan the strike really poorly, that these people have done a terrible job, that going after AI, which no one can even articulate, minimum number of riders in

rooms. And then the thing about unions is they're so disorganized and disjointed. Bill Maher was on Ari Melber and he asked the right question. He's like, how come you get to have a show today? It's like, how come you get to have a show today? So this has gone on too long. They have no leverage. So what you have here, an environment where there's 180,000 members of SAG-AFTRA, 180,000 actors. Guess what percentage of them make $24,000 and qualify for health insurance? Like 10%. 12%.

Very good. Meaning there are just too many goddamn actors meaning they have no leverage because the bottom line is the majority of these people would probably do it for free so they should have dignity of work but they have very little leverage they their demands were ridiculous at least you can understand the demands of the teamsters and the uaw but here's the thing the other side, the studios have woken up and realized, okay, guys, we've been stupid. We convinced ourselves we were on the same side of the table as Netflix. Do you know what has happened to Disney stock since the writer's strike came out? It's down 12%. Do you know what's happened to Netflix stock since the writer's

strike? Up and to the right. Up 50%. Yeah, we got it. We've been calling it. Scott, can I just say we've called this beautifully. Here's the thing. The writer's strike gets done within the next 30 days because the big guys that aren't Netflix, the big guys sans Netflix are like, okay, we've been played. Netflix, this was a feature, not a bug for Netflix. a bug for Netflix. The writers, the most important people, the most talented and probably smartest and biggest voices that I can tell, my pulse marketing talk to them are like, I am fed up with this shit. We have handled this poorly. They're all getting together next week. I think it gets hammered out. Yeah, I agree. I do think Bill especially realized, oh no, I called this

one too, I should have waited because they were going to meet. They were meeting. It didn't, I don't think it pushed it into meeting. I knew it was happening before Bill Maher's nonsense. Okay. But if it goes another 30 days, 50 Bill Maher's and Drew's are going to go, you know what? We're done. Yeah, that's right. That is correct. That's correct. Anyway, just one thing that is at play, California lawmakers passed legislation this week, which would make striking workers eligible for unemployment benefits. If Governor Gavin News Houston signs a bill, it would go into effect in January. So this is hanging over their head. This would help them. It is in effect in New York, by the way. People don't know that. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Disney's possible sale of ABC. And we'll talk with a friend of Pivot, Benjamin Cohen, about why Albert Einstein is more relevant than ever. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle.

When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion. It's mind-blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of scam centers all around the world. These are very savvy business people. These are organized criminal rings. And so once we understand the magnitude of this problem, we can protect people better.

understand the magnitude of this problem, we can protect people better. One challenge that fraud fighters like Ian face is that scam victims sometimes feel too ashamed to discuss what happened to them. But Ian says one of our best defenses is simple. We need to talk to each other. We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive? Even my own father fell victim to a, thank goodness, a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim and we have these conversations all the time. So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other.

Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Indecision. Overthinking. Second-guessing every choice you make. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Beige on beige on beige. In.

Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Scott, we're back. Is Disney getting out of the linear TV business? It certainly looks like it, with Bloomberg reporting that local broadcaster Nexstar has held preliminary talks with Disney to acquire ABC and its affiliates. Another suitor in the mix, media mogul Byron Allen, who's reportedly made a preliminary offer of $10 billion for ABC and its affiliates, along with cable networks FX and National Geographic. In response to these reports, Disney put out a statement saying, while we're open to considering a variety of strategic options for our linear businesses, at this time, the Walt Disney Company has made no decision with respect to the divestiture of ABC or any other property, and any report to that effect is unfounded. That means it's happening. Byron Allen also looked at a whole bunch of things. So, what do you think? First off, Byron Allen lives in Aspen, so I hope he gets the assets. Look, and by the way, what they just said is a total lie. That's them positioning to try and

get a higher price. And the best acquisitions, hands down, from a price standpoint, are corporate orphans. And I don't know who's going to buy these assets. They're going to make out like crazy. And this is what I think is going to happen. Because, and they don't want to talk about this, the most valuable people in the world of advertising, a 17-year-old boy who buys stupid products because he's about to go into his mating years, whether it's shoes or salty snacks or high-margin coffee or electronics goods, salty snacks, or high-margin coffee, or electronics goods, all of them are now watching TikTok more than they are watching all cable and all streaming combined. And that is what is driving all of this, this structural decline, is that the people who these advertisers want to reach, they can no longer reach on these traditional media. What you're going to have is between Time Warner,

traditional media. What you're going to have is between Time Warner, Viacom, and Disney, if they were to shed their cable assets and sell them for $1, their stock prices would probably go up because it muddies their stories. Between the parks and Disney+, Bob Iger has a story. He has a cash cow. He has a growth vehicle, even though it's losing money. And then he spends the rest of the earnings call apologizing for this melting ice cube known as his ad-supported cable. They're going to take all of them. They're going to divest them, whether it's to Nexstar or somebody else. And the key will be a private equity-like mentality where they say, okay, stop trying to inject Botox and fillers into non-on pop-up. They're old. And we're going to make them comfortable. And if the business is declining 4% a year, we're going to cut costs 6% a year through consolidation and cost cutting. And we're going to make them comfortable. And if the business is declining 4% a year, we're going to cut costs 6% a year through consolidation and cost-cutting.

And we are going to make a shit ton of money because these things are still very, very profitable. It's a little like AOL. Speaking of Steve Case, AOL's dial-up business was still making money, still continues. Well, did I tell you? I'm sorry I'm old. I can't remember which podcast I talked about. Well, did I tell you, I can't, I'm sorry, I'm old, so old, I can't remember which podcast I talked about. You know, one of my best investments was in a Yellow Pages company, because it was a business you could buy for two to three times cash flow. And all we did was go

buy the biggest Yellow Pages companies in Australia and Canada. And then quite frankly, we'd lay off a lot of people. But you could be generous because the companies were making a lot of money that, you know, Yellow Pages are still very profitable. And the business was declining. We thought it was going to decline 12% a year. It ended up declining 8% a year. We could have cost 10% a year, and every year the EBITDA and the stock price would go up. But instead, they got to stop bringing in people that think that ESPN is going to grow again or that we can make FX network grow again. Just for some numbers here, the first nine months of 2023, Disney's linear networks had an operating income about $5 billion, down 27% from the same period a year ago. It's really declining.

It used to be a big cash cow. In his third quarter report for the year, Disney specifically pointed out to ABC's struggles with declines in advertising revenue and average viewership. Recent carriage dispute with Spectrum was a huge headache for Disney. Bob Iger also made headlines when he said that Disney's linear TV assets may not be core to the company. So this isn't a shock, but what do you think of these buyers? They could have some issues removing FX and Nat Geo,

both of which are tied to Disney streaming with Hulu and Disney Plus. They could make a deal. And again, like you, Bill Cohen on Puck said private equity should buy. Next are already owns News Nation and a cable news channel that skews to the right. They're an interesting group.

They're right-ish, right, center-right, I guess. How would it work as ABC part of the brand? CNN's Oliver Darcy shared that an ABC news staffer told him everyone is freaking the fuck out. Tell me about what you think about these buyers. You think and Bill thinks that it should be private equity, but others, you know, the next star could be interesting. Look, so first off, I think Chris Cuomo is an enormous talent. I do, too.

I think he's really good broadcaster. I think he's very good at what he does. And I think he's out of central casting for what you want in an anchor, quite frankly. I saw him do something the other day on crime in cities on News Nation, and it was excellent. And he didn't see it on cable, I'll tell you. It was all these mayors, and I thought it was good. I know people have problems with Chris, but... He works hard. He's very talented. He manages to disagree in a thoughtful, civil way. He's very handsome. He's had a central casting for what you would want. And I think he's one of the most talented. And by the way, the people I know at CNN, a lot of them all said the same thing, regardless of what they think about how he left.

An enormous talent. Anyway. Well, let me just say, he shouldn't have helped his brother, but welcome to Kimball. Okay, again, again, there's a word for that, brother. I get it. I get it. I'm just going to point it out because we're going to get yelled at. it yelled at. Anyways, you're going to see this just makes rolling up all of these cash flowing assets that are in decline and managing them well and saying, okay, we're going to have one person

selling SpongeBob SquarePants and the Big Bang Theory into Czechoslovakia, not two different people. And we're going to have one CFO. We're going to be really thoughtful about our costs here, quite frankly. This is my observation, and I was thinking about this, and without naming names, I have been in and around Time Warner and CNN for a long time as someone who had a show that didn't go very long, as someone who's constantly appearing on the network,

and I've gotten to know a ton of executives and a ton of anchors. And whether it's Jeff Zucker or Chris Cuomo And whether it's Jeff Zucker or Chris Cuomo or Don Lemon, who all leave under what I'll call less than ideal circumstances, if CNN and Time Warner had been growing 6% or 8% a year instead of declining 6% or 8% a year, they not only wouldn't still all be there, but there wouldn't be any of this bullshit agita. Nothing creates divorce and stress in a household like economic stress. And here's the thing when I meet with all these people, I think they're all good people. They're all really talented. The thing that makes them hate the

network or lawyer up or say they feel vindicated because this guy was fired after I got fired is economic stress and the fact that these companies are in structural decline. Because when you look at all of them, they're all talented people. And the reason why a $10 million a year anchor is fired and they come up with some bullshit excuse is because they can no longer afford to pay this guy $10 million. So there's two things here that are gonna happen or two themes, good bank, bad bank,

put all of these declining but profitable assets into one corporate structure that investors can understand, a private equity mindset, and essentially just manage them for cashflow. And by the way, I would love, whoever's rolling up these assets, I would love to be involved in this business. Why don't we buy ABC?

You always say that. I thought we were buying Twitter. What's interesting is, you know, you can only buy one of the networks. You know where I think it's going to start, Cara? I think it's going to start at Viacom with CBS and her assets because Sherry has to do something.

Viacom's off 75% in the last five years. And what you'd want to do is- Do we want to own George Stephanopoulos? Or do we want to own- What's weird, because of old antitrust laws, a company can only own one of the three major networks, which shows you how outdated they are, because they saw them as the most powerful forces in modern media. But somebody is going to aggregate a big, big pile of these cable assets.

And instead of maintaining the consensual hallucination that they're ever going to be young again and teenagers and grow, just manage them really well. They probably won't decline as much as they make investments in key areas. They will make a ton of money. I don't know if it's Apollo. I don't know if it's Nexstar. I don't know if it's Apollo. I don't know if it's Nextar. I don't know if it's Jesse Cohen at Elliott. Scott and I would like to own George Stephanopoulos. That's how we want it to be. There we go. Anyway, really interesting. You're right. This is going to move through CBS and ABC and probably not NBC because it's sort of in there. Well, Comcast is always the biggest player. Yeah. And obviously they've got NBC and they've got different assets. They're an interesting one too.

They're doing very well with their streaming network. That's a different creature. They're really well managed. They're already kind of there. They're already kind of there in these, which we're talking about. Anyway, fascinating times. And we'll see what happens. But let's bring in our friend of Pivot.

Benjamin Cohen is the author of The Einstein Effect, How the World's Favorite Genius Got Into Our Cars, Our Bathrooms, and Our Minds, as well as the news director of The Forward. He also happens to be the man behind the official Albert Einstein accounts on social media, where he posts content to millions of Einstein fans around the world. We're excited to have an almost celebrity in our midst. Tell me, how did you get this job? Like, I don't know. Explain to people how you got it. I know how you got it. Talk to us about it. Yeah, Einstein is one of the most active dead celebrities on social media. I mean, John Wayne's on social media, but he doesn't really have much to say. And Einstein has more Facebook fans than Tom Hanks.

20 million. Yeah, than the Rolling Stones. I got the job because I'm a journalist and I'm obsessed with Albert Einstein. And I kind of made myself an Einstein reporter just reporting anytime Einstein's name was in the news. A lot of quirky stuff, you know, when Einstein stuff goes up for auction. And eventually, the Albert Einstein archives started stumbling across my articles. And you know, most of the people at the archives are academics and physicists, they're not really social media experts. And so they asked me if I would take over the account. And I've been running it since 2017, actually. I will talk about what you want to do. I just want to point out that I,

Kara Swisher, have more followers on Twitter than Albert Einstein. I have 1.5 million followers versus Einstein's 745K followers. And Einstein is an early threads adopter, so we'll give you that. Talk to me about what the point of having dead famous geniuses on social media is in the archives and why it's important to continue to have Albert Einstein, I guess, speaking to us in some way. Yeah, I mean, I think people of an older generation obviously know and love Albert Einstein. And I think the point of having him on social media is to make sure that the younger generation is aware of Einstein and all that he stood for. And it's not just his science. I mean, we live in a world that embraces fear of others, xenophobia, hate and violence towards people that are different.

And Einstein was really, I mean, I'm not a scientist. I like to call myself a likable idiot. And Einstein was very much a humanitarian. To me, that's much more what he's famous for. And he had empathy and compassion. And I think, I mean, now more than ever, we need public figures to speak to that. And so if I can play some small part in that, you know, I'm happy to do that. So reaching down seven decades after his death, I mean, he still is probably more

kinder than most of the current crop of science people that we know we've talked about many times on this show. How do you make him relevant in 2023 to young people, though? Well, you know, I was I post a lot of science articles to show how Albert Einstein's fingerprints can be found in all sorts of our daily lives. Like one of my favorite examples of that is GPS. We all live with GPS technology in our phones. You know, when we get directions to drive somewhere. Albert Einstein's theory of relativity helped make that happen. So I'm not going to get into

all the science, but if you have a satellite in space that's moving, you have the earth that's spinning, and you and your car that's moving, Albert Einstein came up with this elegant mathematical equation that kind of made all those things work in unison. So the next time you have a pizza delivery or an Amazon delivery or an Uber driver find you, it's all thanks to Albert Einstein. So one of the other things, and then I'll get to Scott in a second, a big part of the book is, and your role in social media is about combating disinformation. And you had a pretty memorable run-in with Ivanka Trump over an Einstein quote. You write that disinformation was something that Einstein himself faced and nearly ended his career at a couple of points. We all just saw Oppenheimer,

he's a big character, a small character, but an important one in it. And talking about disinformation danger state, you also quote Professor Scott Galloway, who says propaganda has become the next nuclear threat. Yeah, I mean, Einstein, you know, we all like to think of fake news as a modern invention. And it's really something that's been around for a long time since the founding of the United States. And it's something that nearly derailed Einstein's career. When he came up with his theories in the early 1900s, a lot of scientists thought he was crazy. There were pamphlets and books written trying to denounce Einstein. And then especially as the Nazis came to power, the German scientists claimed that they had come up with all these ideas, and they came up with all this fake news about Einstein that was laced with disinformation and with anti-Semitism.

And I actually got the idea from listening to your interview with him about how he combated fake news. And he gave me some interesting points about what he learned from Einstein about how truth can be relative depending on how you look at it. Nice to meet you, Ben. What are the common misconceptions? As you have gotten to know Einstein better, what are one or two things that history and the public gets wrong about Einstein? That's a great question. I think people, you know, they think of him as this academic, as this scientist, but he was really, you know, you look at Oppenheimer. We all saw Oppenheimer this summer. Oppenheimer was not a very approachable guy. He didn't have, you know, kids tugging on his shirt, you know, asking him for help, science homework help. But that was true with Albert Einstein. You had, he was this, I like to call him the first modern day celebrity. And, you know, he was more famous than the president, more famous than Charlie Chaplin, more famous than all these people. And he was authentic about it. And I think so a lot of people look at him as none of us really understand. None of us non-scientists understand anything about Einstein per se.

But I think just his approachability made him so fascinating to the masses. So there's no question that Einstein was a genius. And that word gets applied now to innovators like Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. All three, of course, have been written about by Walter Isaacson, who we talked about earlier. And you also have an Elon connection of sorts. You were a beta tester for Starlink in 2020. Talk a little bit about this idea of what a genius is, because I think Einstein would have abhorred Elon Musk, even if he is a genius. Elon Musk, even if he is a genius. Yeah, I just listened to your interview with Walter this morning, and it got me thinking about Walter's other biography about Einstein. And, you know, you're right. Both are geniuses in their own right. But as I said at the beginning, I think, you know, Einstein had empathy and compassion

in spades and humility in spades. And if we look at, you know, I think genius is much more than, oh, he invented this or he invented that. I mean, if you look at a genius is someone who should be a role model for young people. You know, I know, Scott, this is a big topic of yours about, you know, young men needing role models nowadays. And I think Einstein is a perfect example of that, how he used his fame for good. I mean, we look at someone like Mackenzie Scott versus Elon Musk, someone who uses their wealth for good in the world and to improve the world. Have you thought about, or again, as you've gotten to know, the world. Have you thought about, or Ben, again, as you've gotten to know Einstein,

have you adopted any of his practices, approaches to work, relationships? Have you thought, all right, I admire his achievements, and this is a best practice I'm going to try and incorporate into my professional or personal life? Yeah. So a couple of things. I mean, and this was really helped by the pandemic. Einstein didn't like anything fancy. He would dress in pajamas. There's stories of him walking around Princeton in his pajamas with a robe on. And I like to refer to him as the Jewish Hugh Hefner. And so I actually started, it was pretty easy during the pandemic.

We all kind of walked around in our pajamas but I did adopt more of a an Einstein aesthetic but also one of Einstein's greatest achievements was his ability to picture things in his mind that other people couldn't picture and the way he did that was he would go sailing. And so he would try to not have any distractions. We talk a lot nowadays about our phones keep pinging. I think in the time this interview has gone on, my phone has beeped a few times. And so Einstein was very much someone who liked solitude and liked breaks.

He played music when he was encountering a problem and he was trying to break through and get that problem. So those kinds of things, not taking everything too seriously. Einstein had a great sense of humor, always had a pithy quote. And so those kinds of things I try to take into my daily life. There's a chapter in my book called Einstein Life Hacks, which kind of goes into all of these things. Right. There's all kinds of things like that. I'm deciding I'm not going to speak to anyone on Tuesdays. You also talk about Einstein understanding the power of celebrity and post-death.

He's really become a huge brand. I have an Einstein hat or T-shirt or anything that says, the book mentions Disney paying millions. The Einstein estate for the use named Baby Einstein, which my older kids use and my young kids will use. Apple licensing Einstein's image for Think Different, obviously. Einstein's estate is handled by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem,

a school that Einstein founded and where he bequeathed his manuscripts, copyrights, and royalties. From 2006 to 2017, Einstein was on the Forbes list of 10 highest paid dead celebrities, bringing in between 10 and $12 million a year. And from the book,

Einstein was way ahead of his time before the Beatles and Elvis wore Michael Jordan got a shoe deal with Nike and Dolly Parton built an amusement park, which I've been to and is excellent. Einstein understood the power of celebrity. Can you talk about that? Because I think he'd be great on social media or, you know, not being you like living like as a living person. Yeah, I think I think he would love TikTok. Yeah, I think he would have, I think he would have a blast on that. You know, people would come up to him, he'd be traveling, paparazzi would chase him all around. And they would ask him his opinion on all sorts of random things, things that he was not even an expert in. And he always had a quote

for them. So I think that would be perfect for our social media age. But yeah, like you said, he was way above. Don't forget Salesforce. One of their major products at Salesforce is an AI product called Einstein. And they licensed that from the Einstein estate as well. He came about at this moment in modern media when all of modern media was in place. Newspapers, magazines, photographs, radio, even television.

And so I think he kind of struck at that exact moment where he caught all of our imagination. He was playful and had a childlike sense of curiosity. Looked great. Looked great. Looked great. Anytime the paparazzi came, he would take his hat and throw it up in the air because he knew that would make a great picture. I mean, Marie Curie never did that. No.

And it shows to this day. She was no fun. She was no fun. Then again, she was dying of radiation poisoning, but go ahead. fun. She was no fun. Then again, she was dying of radiation poisoning, but go ahead. Like you said, he was just able to relate to people. I once heard someone refer to him as a mythical creature. We've kind of created this. Scott's a brand and marketing expert here. A lot of what brands are is a myth that we create around those people. And I think Einstein's a great example of that. After saying Oppenheimer, it shows that Oppenheimer had, I don't know what the word is,

remorse or guilt after the bomb was dropped. I was fairly curious to understand how Einstein felt about the bomb after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yeah, so that's a great question. So his E equals MC squared equation was what laid the foundation for the atomic bomb. And he first of all didn't realize that when he came up with that equation in 1905, that decades later it would be used for such evil. out about the proliferation of nuclear weapons for the rest of his life vehemently. He would, you know, go around the country speaking about it. He started a bunch of organizations against that. And so I think it was probably, I would venture to say, the biggest regret in his life that his name is associated with the atomic bomb. Yeah, yeah. He comes, it was a great role in that movie. I'm going to, we can't let you go, my final questions, without letting, getting the story of how you saw Einstein's brain in an Acura MDX, is that correct? actually stole Einstein's brain. Many people don't know that, but he stole it and he kept it in a beer cooler in his basement for decades

and nobody knew where it was. And I was able to track it down and I found the guy who has it now. It's cut up, it's in a bunch of mason jars. And it was a real spiritual experience to hold those jars because not only is it the last physical vestige of albert einstein but it's what the brain represents why does no one go get it from these people it it's hidden it's hidden i mean listen the the doctor stole it for for benevolent reasons he

wanted to research to see if einstein's brain was special or unique in some way and so but he wasn't a brain expert so he cut it up sent it out. There are pieces of Einstein's brain all over the world, but still most of it are in these jars. And, you know, holding it is, I have to admit, was probably the most awe-inspiring experience I had writing the book. Oh, my God. You need to get other awe-inspiring. Don't touch his brain.

Let him bury it. And I'm going to carry Scott's brain around at the end when he leaves us. Well, that's easy. That's a big shake. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, it'll fit in my pocket. Anyway, thank you, Benjamin. It's such an interesting book.

And we love to have sort of interesting and fun stuff like this. And I really, I have a great admiration for Albert Einstein in many, if I had to list five or ten people that I really, Dolly Parton is also right up there. And again, his book is called, and it's really well worth it. It's really a lot of fun. The Einstein Effect, How the World's Favorite Genius Got Into Our Cars, Our Bathrooms, and Our Minds.

And of course you can look on Twitter. Is it at Albert Einstein? At Albert Einstein on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter and threads. All right. Well, keep watching. It's very funny. It's a terrific thing to follow. Thank you so much. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for your good work. All right, Scott. I really love a delightful guest, and that was certainly delightful,

and I love Albert Einstein anything. We'll be back in a second for predictions. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month.

At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at fizz.ca. Okay, let's do predictions. Scott, let me hear your prediction. Well, I made it. The writer's strike is going to be over

by the end of, in the next 30 days. I'm jumping on that one with you. Go ahead. You're in as well, the UAW strike. One, the former or the latter has reason to be solved. They've handled it well. Shin Fein, whatever his name is, the guy who-

Sean Fane. Sean Fane, the guy who leaves unattended packages on the tube. Oh, wait, that was another guy. Oh, my God. Totally inappropriate. Totally inappropriate. Totally inappropriate. Totally.

Allegedly. Especially living in the UK. By the way, my youngest takes the tube to and from school, which is wonderful. By the way, my youngest takes the tube to and from school, which is wonderful. And my favorite picture of my youngest son is when he dressed up for Halloween as Einstein. Oh, that's cute. Yeah, it's really cute. Okay, so where were the predictions?

Look, the UAW, they're at $40. The bid ask is $20 and $40. They'll end up probably in the high 20s. That's where they should be. So that's going to end. And then the folks who run the Writers Guild are in danger of losing their jobs and of the entire union collapsing if they don't come. And SAG? You're including SAG in that?

Yeah, they'll follow along. But these unions, the people who actually work at the unions, probably realize that they have overplayed their hand, and they're about to get kicked out of the game. All of a sudden, everyone, all at once, their incentives are aligning to solve this strike. So what's gone on 120 days isn't going to go on more than another 30. Yeah, I would agree. I think they don't like to hear this, union people, but things do have their sell-by date. Like people do get, like it gets, the longer it goes, the worse and worse it is

typically for the strikers, tends to be. And we need to have an honest conversation. People have such a gad reflex when you say anything negative about a specific union. 330 Starbucks have unionized, and everyone's like, oh, my God, it's a union resurgence. Not one of those stores that has unionized has resulted in a collective bargaining agreement. Or in some, it's all been a bunch of jazz hands. It hasn't resulted in anything positive for the workers. And let me really dig a hole for myself here. I have been on-

Yeah, please, because I like unions, but go ahead. Well, we all like unions. We all like their intent. They need help. It's not enough, because here's the thing, Kara. As someone who has sat on, I don't know, seven public company boards and several of them had unions, unions are the perfect enemy for corporations because they give American workers the illusion they're being well represented and they're not. These guys are disorganized, corrupt, and the majority of the people here don't have a lot of faith in them. And here's the bottom line. The root motivations, the objectives, the spirit, the soul of unions is right on.

And guess what? They need help. And the way they need help is we have to have a base floor line minimum wage in this country of 25 bucks, and then hopefully unions can go get more than that. floor-line minimum wage in this country of $25, and then hopefully unions can go get more than that. But right now, this construct is not working for the American working man or woman. All right, there you have it.

And let me just say, ladies and gentlemen, Lauren Boebert! No, I'm kidding. Representative Boebert. I like her a lot more now, don't you? I do. I told you that. I hate myself. I hate myself.

I was like, what a saucy I do. I told you that. I hate myself. I hate myself. I was like, what a saucy little minx she is. Seriously. She's got to stop lecturing us about family values. She's got to stop that. That is irritating. People juxtapose all her family values, bullshit, and her anti-drag bullshit with her hand jobbery. And it was delicious. It was fantastic. But anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Scott, that's the show. Another amazing show. I was at this wedding over the weekend and I had 12 selfies. Is this the part of the show? Let's talk about how awesome we are?

Go ahead. No, we are. I'm going to do that because literally people love our show. I love affirmation from strangers. Bring it on. No, because we're great. It's that people enjoy it, and I really appreciate all of people who come up to me. So what happened at the wedding?

I just want to say what was really nice, someone came up to me and said, you're our friend in a really nice way. And I thought that was beautiful. And I really liked it. It makes them laugh, makes them cry, makes them angry, whatever. You're our friend. I thought that was well said. We're your friend.

We are your friend. But don't get creepy. Don't get creepy. So I should mention that my favorite bathhouse in San Francisco was the White Swallow. Oh, my God. Actual place. Actual place. Oh, my gosh. Actual place. Actual place. Was it? Yeah. Actual place in Soma. Am I still

their friend? Am I still their friend? Yes. Because there's a bar in my neighborhood, the Moby Dick. And then, you know, there you have it. Anyway, come visit San Francisco and we'll take you for a drink. Threw you off your game. Not easy to throw Kara Swisher off her game. She's still... Scott and I'll take you for a drink. Threw you off your game. Not easy to throw Kara Swisher off her game.

Lauren Boebert, Scott and I will take you for a drink at the Moby Dick. Will she date my son when he's a senior in high school? That's all I want to know. I will vote for her. I'm a constituent now. Every 17-year-old boy needs a little Boebert in her life. She does not lay a hand on my son. That would be ugly.

She would be in lots of pieces all over Aspen. Anyway, we'll be back on Friday for more. We are digressing once again, but we appreciate it. And we are subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great rest of the week. Thank you.