Pivot - Tariff Turmoil, Trump's Netflix Threat, and SOTU Predictions

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

Kara and Scott unpack Trump’s tariff defeat at the hands of the Supreme Court, how he’s scrambling for workarounds, and whether billions in refunds will ever get paid out. Then, Trump pressures Netflix to fire board member Susan Rice or "pay the consequences." Plus, Democrats weigh their strategies for the State of the Union, investors bet on "HALO" stocks, and Scott explores what’s next for his Resist and Unsubscribe campaign. Watch this episode on the ⁠⁠Pivot YouTube channel⁠⁠.Follow us on Instagram and Threads at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcastofficial⁠⁠.Follow us on Bluesky at ⁠⁠@pivotpod.bsky.social⁠⁠Follow us on TikTok at ⁠⁠@pivotpodcast⁠⁠.Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWave.com slash Ready for Anything. It's like that little monkey who was rejected by his family and found a plushy. I saw that, and granted, I think I was on an edible. And I'm like, that's my purpose in life is to be other people's plushy. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Scott, you're missing the blizzard. As we tape, over 40 million people in the U.S. are under a blizzard warning, by the way. And snow dropping three inches an hour in some locations. It really is still going on here in New York. And it's crazy. There's a lot of snow happening.

We all thought the snow was over. Maybe I'll go take a walk in New York and walk in the Central Park and contemplate my life. Do what I would do. Go to Chey Margo and get fucked up and establish eye contact with a nice young Russian lady. I'm getting an award tonight in Brooklyn. I've got to go out to Brooklyn. Of course you are. I am.

I'm getting the governor's award. I'm getting an award tonight in Brooklyn. That is the most Kara Swisher thing ever said. I'm getting an award in Brooklyn. Yes, I have to go there. Yeah, it's the Ambys. What do you, okay, all right, fine. I'll play along.

I don't know. It's the new, it's the Oscars and podcasting. What are you getting an award for? For being old, from the Governor's Award. The Oscars of Podcasts, I thought that was the vibes. What are those? What is it called the Webbies or the? No, no, not those.

No, that's the, oh, the. The Signal Awards? No, I don't know. Whatever. They're trying to make fetch happen with awards. Two white guys with a mic. That's called, that's a podcast. This is not the Bafters or the Oscars.

This is the podcast version. And I'm getting the. Great contributions to podcasting award. Really? I guess. I don't know, Scott. Anyway, here's something crazy going on. Mexican security forces killed the leader of the Halisco New Generation Cartel and eight other cartel members in a Mexican military operation aided by U.S. intelligence support.

And then they went crazy, these cartels. And they're like, they're in Puerto Vallarta, like Captain Stubing. That's how I know Puerto Baird from Love Boat. And they're like bombing the whole place. And all these Americans have been either diverting. from going there or cannot leave there, not just Americans, but lots of people. And they're like attacking neighborhoods. And this footage is really something, all these burnt cars.

And it's really something. I don't know what you think about it. The issue is it's not, I mean, it's violence, but it feels like it's more structural governance in an economic issue that's been evolving for nearly two decades. And that is, these cartels are so inextricably integrated into the economy and even the government. That's a really good point. And it's not a traditional drug war in the old sense. It's sort of fragmentation and power vacuums, right?

After the breakup of more powerful consolidated cartels, dozens of regional groups now compete for territory in trafficking routes and increasingly diversified revenue streams. Things like fuel theft, extortion, human smuggling, I mean, all kinds of this. Supposedly they've interrupted the avocado supply chain. And oftentimes the violence is about local market control, because Mexico is a big economy rather than just narcotics exports. Yeah, no, I get that. It's just that this is the reaction, like, to just show what they can do to upset economics, right? I guess. That's what they're doing.

I mean, the thing that does so much damage to this, hands down, my favorite place to travel in the world. And I'm very fortunate. I get to go to a lot of... You love Mexico. Every year I go with a group of guys to Tulum. I love. I think, Semigilde, I just think Mexico, I also think it's the best bargain in the world. It's six-star service and food and culture and vistas for four-star prices, whereas in Europe you get a lot of five-star service for six-star prices. I absolutely love the food, the culture, the people. And what happens is Americans immediately are like, oh, no, I'm not going to travel there. And the reality is most of this violence is confined to what I'll call Mexican on Mexican.

violence. But it makes you think, should I... These photos of tourists from, you know, they're all in their hotels near beaches, and they're just showing enormous amounts of fires. I guess there was one guy who was in his hotel room and this guy, these two cartel members, they're on motorcycles, set fire to like a version of a 7-Eleven there, like just in front of him. And it was really, it's really interesting to experience it this way, like sort of online. Like, hey, I was down here, have it. a margarita and oh yeah, the drug cartels just bombed a car in my neighborhood. But this does sort of signal a shift because for the last, for in recent years, Mexico's

federal strategy and some people call it appeasement has been more about containment over confrontation. This is confrontation. And also we don't, we don't want to have an honest conversation. The U.S. plays a role here. There's a dimension here. And that is a lot of our firearms flow south. You know what drives a lot of the profits here is is U.S. drug demand and fentanyl production and trafficking have reshaped the supply chain and the economics of the trade, lower input costs, much higher potency, smaller shipping volumes. So the synthetic, the power or economic potency of synthetics have changed the incentive structure. You don't need large cocoa fields or massive kind of drug smuggling convoys. You need kind of like chemical precursors

in distribution networks and enforcement muscle. But let me be clear. I'm still going to Mexico. I love Mexico. Yeah, anyway, it's a black eye for Claudia Shinebaum, I have to say, even if the U.S. helped her and stuff like that. Well, is it a black eye or does she show some muscle here? By doing something about it. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. We're going to keep watching it, and I hope people there are safe.

How is resistant unsubscribe going? Some of you have been writing in asking for alternatives to big tech that they're unsubscribing from. We asked David Pierce, editor at large, at the verge and co-host of the Vergecast to give us some recommendations. Let's listen to what he had to say. If I was trying to get rid of big tech apps in my life, my top three or four recommendations would definitely start with Proton. Proton is this company started by a bunch of CERN scientists in Switzerland that is very privacy-focused. And over the years, they've actually built a series of apps that are basically as good as

everything you get from Google. They have a drive. They have an email. They have calendar. They have all the stuff. The next one is probably Signal, which is the messaging app I think everyone should switch to. There are things that are good about WhatsApp, even though it's owned by a meta. But Signal is a organization run by the right kind of people who believe in the right kind of things. And then the third one is slightly more afield, but I would say anyone who wants to do smart home stuff in their life right now should use Home Assistant. You can use Alexa. You can use HomeKit. You can use Google. But Home Assistant is this very specific hackable, open system that you control much more completely than you control any of those other

systems. Everything from the stuff on your doorbell that's looking out at the world and seeing people come up to your door to like the baby monitors inside of your house. Who runs that stuff matters? That was great. That was great. Those are all three terrific recommendations. So what's going on? Well, first off, it bears repeating. You have been the biggest supporter of this and I very much appreciate it. No problem. But as we wind down, February, So the two objectives are what I call signal and incentives. Wanted to send a signal to the American public that they have this weapon hiding in plain sight and that their economic decisions can have an impact.

I think we've hit that on all levels. We've gotten just a ton of media exposure, a ton of unsubscribes. I do think there's a large percentage of the populace who now realizes that economic strength is strength. The second objective was incentives and that is to reconfigure the incentives among big tech executives to think twice. before they enable or facilitate. I'm not sure we've accomplished that, quite frankly. Not yet. My friends have said,

it's a conversation on product management teams, but it's not a board-level conversation yet. So the question is, as we wind down February, what do we do? I was contacted by the Dutch historian Rutger Bregman, who's been instrumental in this. Yeah, I'm a huge fan. By the way, he's only 37.

He's a lovely guy. Yeah, and they're super smart. And he reached out and said... Just, FYI, for people who don't know, he confronted the issue of billionaires at Davos, and got a lot of attention. He called him a bunch of tax avoiders. He basically said,

none of you want to talk about the real issue on the table, which is tax avoidance. He's unafraid. I love the guy. Anyways, I love authors and academics who are just sort of unafraid. And he contacted me and said,

you've got the brand, the visibility, and the momentum. We have this group of really talented young people and some traction and something called quit GPT. And his view is you need to consolidate and focus on one and try and bring them down.

And so we're trying to figure out, we've decided we're going to continue with something in March, but we're trying to figure out what are the learnings, how do we be more impactful, and how do we keep our momentum going? And I'm going to speak to you about it and some other people, but I've had a bunch of organizations, a bunch of congresspeople, elected representatives all say, how do we continue this and how do we make it more effective? I did an analysis for us to get the number of unique visitors to our site if we paid for it and we haven't paid a dime. would cost us somewhere between $5 million. It just shows the power of social media in terms of the platforms we've built

and the content stream we have and how powerful podcasts are driving. But I need to, in the next several days, figure out what we do in March. Is it focusing? Is it different media outlets? What is it that helps maintain this momentum? Is it consolidating?

There are three or four similar movements around the world. Do we all consolidate? I was on a call. with record it ed. And it's like, if the British, the Russians, and the Americans can come together to defeat Germany, maybe we should figure out a way to all consolidate and come together. But the two points are distill down to a smaller number of targets, if you will, and also do what you said, structure some full-time resources.

Yeah, I think so. So that you can, they just tell you what to do, right? Essentially, there's a lot of people who do that. One of the things that's, you know, someone who I'm really impressed with Amanda Lippman who runs run for something. And I had her on the podcast. She's incredibly, you know, strategic in terms of figuring out what people need to do, especially young people. It seems like this is something you need to get people who are actually a little more, you know, that really can focus it energetically.

I don't mean professionally, like, because there's a lot of professional organizers that don't really get stuff done. I think you've really caught lightning in a bottle here, and you've got to keep doing it. Anyway, we're still working on an event, Scott and I are, and so we're going to do that, hopefully. And we'll see where it goes from there. But let's move on to the stuff we have to cover day. Donald Trump is increasing his global tariffs to 15% from 10% effective. Immediately just days after the Supreme Court struck down most of his global tariffs. In a 6 to 3 decision, the court ruled that Trump exceeded his authority when he invoked the Emergency Powers Act.

Trump called the decision ridiculous and anti-American. He also insulted the justices personally quite a bit. That was, you know, it was worse than that. He's just being a giant fucking baby. His latest workaround uses a 1974 trade law that allows him to impose temporary terrorists for 150 days. He just posted on True Social a little while ago about the court empowering him to use the terrorists in a more powerful and obnoxious way. He's just, you know, the court, let me be clear, was very clear about what he was doing was illegal, essentially, and that the Congress and, and Gorsuch, the Judge Gorsuch had a really eviscerating take on how Congress has sort of abrogated its responsibility. one of the other justices who was against questions if the refunds could happen.

Scott Besson sort of is trying to hedge that bet because they've got to give billions in many, many billions in, I think 175 billion, something like that, in returns to U.S. businesses, etc. The repercussions of this tariff decision, the EU just hit pause on its U.S. trade deal until it gets more clarity on what Trump is doing. thousands of companies around the world have already filed lawsuits challenging the terrorists even before the Supreme Court's ruling. So there's a market in that. Estimates suggest the government could owe, again, more than $175 billion in refunds. The Supreme Court is leaving the refund question. Lower courts, this is just Kavanaugh who warned the process. It's going to be a mass and it is. Let's listen to Secretary Bessent, what he said about these payoffs. He spoke to Fox News after the decision. This could take months. This could take years to litigate and to get to the payouts.

And if there is a payout, it looks like it's just going to be the ultimate corporate welfare. Oh, please, Scott. You took the money from them. Give it back. So talk about what the next move is for everybody and the reaction that Trump had, which was very – I honestly thought it was dangerous, given the political heat right now, especially for the Supreme Court justices. It's weird. Everyone says he's a loser. There's no doubt it's a check on his authority. And, you know, a rejection or a gag reflex. The primary purpose or power of Congress is the power of the purse. They're the ones that are supposed to, I mean, what you've had on a metal level and Barry Goldwater back in the 70s weren't of this, there's been a slow abrogation of power to the executive branch. And a lot of the power was checked by norms, not by laws. And then someone showed up and said, fuck norms. I'm declaring wars and tariffs on my own.

And one of the reasons you've seen such, so many Republican Congress people decide to retire is they're like, it's one thing to be in the minority and know that you've been defenestrated or neutered. It's another thing to be in the majority. And the Speaker of the House is not the Speaker of the House. He's the Speaker of the White House. He's there just to run roughshot over us and pretend he represents Congress. He doesn't. He represents the President. And Republicans are like, wait, I thought we were in charge and had some say here and we don't. And these tariffs would not have gone through. They're enough Republicans against the tariffs. You know, they're supposed to be the free marketers. So this is a victory for co-equal branches of government in Congress controlling the purse. I think it's a huge victory for the Supreme Court who was looking increasingly like Trump's, you know, trolls or not trolls, Trump's acolytes, right? This does look like the independence of the court. Six to three is pretty resounding. In a weird way, I thought this gave Trump.

an off ramp from what was clearly a failed economic policy, that I thought the economy in the stock market would actually probably go up. What was interested is the reaction was muted, the market was slightly up, but now it's looking like he's going to use another provision, 122, which only lasts 150 days. But it's more inconsistency,

and we've said this for a long time, more than the tariffs themselves, the most damaging thing to American trade policy, is inconsistency. Nobody, no small business knows how to plan their business against what will be tariffs or not tariffs. What I've been tracking, I was working with a hedge fund trying to find tariff claims. So if you're Mercedes-Benz of the United States and you paid 20 million tariffs, you could at one point potentially buy those claims for 10 cents on the dollar. Now, those have accelerated to 20 to 40 cents on the dollar, but the reason they're not trading at 60 or 80 cents on the dollar is the administration and complexity of potentially getting the money.

I think that's a red herring. I just don't. I think if they collected this money easily, I don't see why they can't reimburse it easily. It was all done digitally, so I don't buy that argument. But it's more indecision. It's more sclerotic decision-making where people can't plan their business against. And what you see is just a continued reconfiguration of the global supply chain around the U.S. where we have massively benefited over-bent. You know, someone brought up the notion, the very simple notion, actually I think was Justin first had said, we have a trade deficit in the form of dollars, but we have a trade surplus in the form of stuff. So the example is, I have a trade deficit with my barber, but my barber makes me look just fucking dreamy for very little money. So it's a good trade. And U.S. trade policy,

while we give more paper money to them, we get so much shit because of the strength of the dollar. I mean, stuff. Trump is an economic imbecile. Like he's just, he's seeing things like he learned economics in fourth grade, and that's where he's stuck. If you export $100 with Nvidia chips to Germany in exchange for $100 of a Mercedes G-Wagon, they operate at 10 points operating margin and get seven times, you know, EBITDA. So they get $70. We operate, Nvidia operants at like 60 points operating margin and trades at 40. We get $2,400.

I mean, if there's any asymmetry here of who is who is, who is, disproportionately benefited from global trade, it's been the U.S. We've been the big winner. This is stuck in Trump's brain forever because he's just not, honestly, he's not that smart, right? Like, just in a very basic way,

he has this has had in this brain, and then he has these facilitators. And by the way, Scott Bessett knows better, of course. He knows exactly what you know. And he's, I don't know what his game is. I mean, he's talking about tarnishing a reputation that he had was pretty decent.

But one of the things that's problematic is that he's operating sort of economics for dummies or something, like something, because he sticks in his brain that this is the way things go. And I think most people don't think about it in a complex way. I think the two things that I think about, again, were these, that the Supreme Court did him a favor here, right? He got to try out his stupid ideas. He seems to be doubling down.

He's doubling down in a really demented way, and the personal stuff that he was attacking them with. And, you know, apparently Our families should be ashamed. Families and Barrett, Coney Barrett and Gorsuch, I think, just really strange, just really, really strange. And all they were saying was pointing out the obvious,

which was this is something Congress should do. It's something Congress's job as to do. And he just doesn't feel any restraints on himself. And that's what it is. And it's like old man combined with someone who's already an egomaniac and a narcissist, combined with more old man, combined with he gets to do what he wants this term, and the victimization that he has is so massive, you know, that he's always being victimized.

Someone's always fucking him. That's his whole worldview, that it's just, we're being governed by a guy who just, again, didn't, is a victim, thinks he's a victim. Anyway, we'll see. Where does it go from here very briefly? Well, on Kowski, they're saying it's a 76% chance the court orders a tariff-refront before 2027. So it does feel like he's running out of options. This Section 122 has a maximum 150 days. The Supreme Court does seem pretty resolute on this, 6-3. I don't think he's going to

get a lot of support from even Republicans or Congress. Like, oh, wait, we have meaning again. You mean, we get to actually have input. You actually have to bring this to us. And if he thinks these tariffs have merit and they're good for the economy, then take it to Congress and work out to deal with them. That's what they're there for. That's right. But he doesn't want to do that because he can't get it past because he can't get it past the way he wants to do what he wants to do. Because he can't justify it intellectually or economically. This is the the amount of money, the prosperity we have recognized from global trade. Now granted, some of his instincts are correct. We had an asymmetric relationship. We were getting taken advantage of in my view in terms of our

relationship with China. They, you know, they steal our IP and then sell us stuff at six. 60 cents on the dollar. We are not good at looking after people who are on the wrong end of global trade. But he's never doing that. He just tells them he's here for them, but then he doesn't actually do anything for them. And then if you want to look at the manufacturing sector that was supposed to be rejuvenated, that has not happened. What has happened is that the tourist industry, which employs 12 million people versus the manufacturing industry, which employs 11 million, is taking a real hit. Because Canadians are thinking, no, I'm not going to Disneyland or Las Vegas this year. Look at that.

Did you see that story about that British woman who was put into ICE for six weeks? Well, checking your people who have to turn over their phone and they're being asked for their password. It's like, fuck that. I'll go to Capri or I'll go to Poinosa. You know, I'll do something else. I would think this is a, I would think every tourism board in the world is like, come here. We'll take your money. Yeah, anyway.

Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back. Get ready for Trump's State of the Union. Support for this show comes from Delete Me. Whether you're a public figure or a private citizen, it's easier than ever for bad actors to get your personal information. I've tried Delete Me a lot, and I really have had a great time figuring out how much information

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You can visit Upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's UPWRK.com, Upwork.com. Scott, we're back. As we record, we're one day away from Trump's State of the Union speech, will appear on the day of it. He's walking in with a 60% disapproval rating, according to New Washington Post, ABC Ipsos poll. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries is urging Democrats either attend in silent defiance or skip the speech. And a growing number of Democrats plan to attend a counter-rally on the National Mall called the People's State of the Union. And Virginia Governor Abbe Gail Spanwer is delivering the official Democratic response. That's a good choice.

What do you think of this? I'm wondering if that's if and when we bomb Iran. I don't think he has a lot to, I don't know. I think his speechwriters are scratching their head. Apparently, Vance previewed it. Apparently he's going to talk about how manufacturing is coming back to the U.S. like tomorrow. See, it's sort of like an Elon promise of autonomous. I think those screenshots here are going to be really hilarious.

The audience reaction, even, I think there's even going to be some Republicans who are kind of like, oh, yeah, Glyclap. Yeah, that's not, that's not working here. I think it's going to be very interesting, but I feel as if he's, you know, They're like, okay, how do we turn chicken shit into chicken salad here? Yeah, they're going to – Vance apparently gave an interviewer. He's talking about how we're going to suddenly have factories everywhere. Like, it's all made up.

Literally, it feels like, you know, there was a really interesting meme on the line of Elon promising autonomy for like 10 years, like tomorrow next week. They're going to try to say everything's great with the economy, which to me, when Biden did that was so ineffective when people know that's not the case. I think these numbers are just astonishing that he keeps doubling down, right? on the 60% disapproval is so high. I don't think you, I think it was this number right after the January 6th attack on the Capitol. I mean, I think that's where we are right now. And it'll be interesting. I think there's a high chance of crazy, like, that he does something nuts.

Just goes unchained. Unchained. Like, he says something kooky or he loses his words. I wouldn't get up there if I were him. You know, of course he's going to have pancake makeup caked on his hand. By the way, whoever is doing it. that, I can tell you there are Hollywood people that can make that hand look better. I keep looking at it. I'm like, what is his, like, secretary doing it or, you know, with a bunch of, like, cheap makeup? It's really weird. I feel like

they could do a better job on the same person that came up with a tariff strategy. Right, exactly. It's Peter Navarro slabbering, you know, Mac makeup. Hold your hand out. It's not even Mac makeup. My niece works at Sephora. This is how you do it. But seriously, I think it is a good chance of crazy. Good can't, like a high chance of crazy, like something. Yeah. I wouldn't do it if I were him. I'd find some dumb excuse not to do it. But he's now a heat-seeking missile.

Have you noticed how much he's been like appearing? Like, he keeps appearing everywhere. I don't know. I just feel like it's bad. We'll see what happens. But at the very least, if he doesn't say something crazy, poop his pants or lose his words. And it'll be fine, I guess, and doesn't just lie too much.

I don't know. the Democrats do, just show up and say nothing, stare angrily. I think you just sit there and kind of look like, okay. Are you fucking kidding me? This dude is lost of shit. I don't know what they should do. I don't think they acquit yourself like the elected leaders you are and just polite. So they not go?

The Supreme Court has to go, all of them, right? Don't you think? Yeah, as do our elected representatives. I just hate the idea of whoever's president and half the House doesn't show. I don't know. I think there's a certain decorum. it's the State of the Union, show up. You don't have to smile, you don't have to applaud.

But, yeah, I think you show up. And, of course, the Supreme Court should show up. Yeah, maybe he'll tell us there are aliens. Maybe that's what he's going to do. I don't know, something. He's going to have to have a jazz hands. And they shouldn't use his hands too much, let's just say. I'm just praying that the teleprompter goes down and he goes full, apeshit crazy.

Yeah, I know, ape shit crazy. I hope that it's two gin and tonics for drunk uncle. No, but he doesn't drink. Remember his brother died of alcoholism? He's like anti-drinking. But other than that, Kara, how? How is his brother doing? What?

It's dead. All right. That's like, do you ever run into a friend and you ask how their dad is? And you didn't know, that's like, oh, my dad passed a year ago. Oh, but wait, other than that, how's he doing? You don't do that. You don't do that. You never do that.

I totally do that. What are you supposed to say? Never. What I find is people don't go, oh, I'm sorry. It's like, well, dude, he died a year ago. I'm fine. I didn't think you make a joke out of it. Okay.

All right. Well, my mom's still living, just to remember that. So, all right. Lucky. Lucky. She's good. I got her a lazy boy. That's the greatest innovation in Hollywood.

It's not AI. It's lazy boys in theaters. Can I just say it stands up now? It's so good. I took her to lunch. I lift her right out of that chair. Stuck her to. Anyway, she loves her lazy boy.

She loves her. Yeah. I'm just saying, I'm getting you one. I want one with wheels where I can just fly down the avenue. No, we're going to keep you in a room, and that's going to be the end of it. So this is one I've been really excited to talk to you about. President Trump has called on Netflix to fire board member Susan Rice or, quote, pay the consequences after Rice said Democrats would push for corporate accountability. The DOJ is investigating

Netflix proposed takeover of Warner Brothers and whether the deal may, quote, substantially lessen competition. And Paramount saying there's, quote, no statutory impediment to closing its deal for Warner Brothers after clearing a U.S. antitrust waiting period. This is not true. Regulars could still stop to sue. And of course, there's the EU and other ways. This is not, this was a press release. Meanwhile, a group of Democratic senators is threatening to investigate Paramount seeking information on the company's contacts with the Trump administration. As we tape, the seven-day window for Warner Brothers to talk with Paramount is nearing an end at 1159 p.m. on Monday. So talk about this, this Trump thing. I mean, Susan Rice, like what? I mean, maybe it'll

have an implication. I don't know. It's just weird. You can't make, like, he tried to get Lisa Monaco from stopping working at Microsoft. Microsoft just ignored him. essentially, and she's still working there. Do you think it's important? What do you think here? Yeah, it's incredibly socialist. Capital markets function on the assumption that boards are accountable to shareholders, that regulatory authority is exercised through formal channels, and that political powers and uses leverage in private corporate disputes. And, you know, when those lines erode, you introduce political risk and into ordinary governance decisions. capitalism is supposed to be regulated competition.

And a guy who just has a history of bankrupting casinos and leaving a stream of unpaid subcontractors, you know, who got rich through a grift monetizing the White House, is not the person to be telling companies. It's just, it's totally anathema to the way America has built its economy. You know, when political actors treat corporate boards as cultural backers, battlegrounds, you shift from kind of rules-based capitalism to personality-driven capitalism. Investors can price regulation, but they struggle to price discretionary political targeting. So does this mean every time the administration changes, we invest in companies that have Democratic

board members versus Republican board members? Exactly. Practically, if presidents start leaning on boards, it invites Congress, regulators, and state officials to do this. same, and that's not market discipline. That's politicized corporate. Unless you get rid of this person. I mean, so far, again, it didn't work with Lisa Monaco at Microsoft. They just basically ignored the request.

And I think, so I was with some Netflix people. I went to the BAFTA awards last night. Oh, you did? Wait, you went to BAFTA? Hello? Where did the lead? What did you wear? Oh, I didn't know BAFTA was a big deal, and I showed up just with a blazer.

And then Ted Sarandos came up to me in a tucks. I'm like, oh, God, I fucked up. Yeah, okay. Yeah, he was there. Yeah, but everyone, yeah, it was really, really fancy. I didn't, a friend of mine took me to dinner and said, do you want to go to the BAFTA Awards? I said, yeah.

Wow. And anyways, but they will, I have no inside information here, but I know what Smart Class Act Netflix management is. I am sure if they haven't already, they'll put out a statement of support for Susan Rice. And this is, this has become so obviously, He's now supporting Paramount. But I talked to some Netflix.

I think that at this point, so much testosterone has gotten involved in this. If you had asked either the Ellison's or Ted Serendos six months ago, are you willing, would you ever pay $82 billion for Warner? They'd say, no fucking way. It's not worth that in any world. But because Zazlop, to his credit, is not a great operator, but he's an outstanding investment banker.

He has played them off each other and convinced both of them to overpay. If the Ellisons end up getting this and Netflix doesn't, my prediction is that Netflix stock is up 10 to 20 percent. Because with $80 billion, Netflix can create just a shit ton of content, new verticals, new markets, new subscription plans. They'll be able to, at this point, I think it would almost be better for them if they lost and they just sue the shit out of Paramount and the government and basically create, keep Hollywood in a state of flux. And they're the winner. they'll keep on humming. I mean, that company's firing on all 12,000 cylinders with content production all over the world.

And just, you know, they're sort of the default, right? You have to, even in the resist and unsubscribe, people would say, I'm going down to one streaming media platform. And if you go down to one, who do you choose? Netflix, absolutely. You choose Netflix, right? It's the everyone else's heated seats and car stereos, they're the engine in the car itself. They're the chassis, so to speak. Or Disney, right?

Right? Because if you have young kids and you don't watch TV, maybe. Well, I guess we do. I watch a lot of TV. You're all right. I watch it at night. But yeah, it's what you're going to see here, I think, is that even if the Ellison's get it, if Netflix could block the closing of the acquisition until the next administration, they might be able to overturn it because the whole point of capitalism is, it's pretty basic. And M&A. Whoever shows up with more money gets approved by shareholders. and then it has to survive regulatory review. The president has no role in any of that.

That's not what he's there for. The whole point of government is we let our thoroughbreds run. We have antitrust. We have regulatory concerns. We have CFIUS security concerns. But you're supposed, guess what? The American corporation is the second best performing organizations in history, only behind the U.S. military.

We create these out-of-controls. full body contact violence, not a ton of regulation, low regulation rules, regulated competition, produces unprecedented profits, prosperity, and innovation. And all of a sudden, you have a failed rich kid deciding who should own what? Yeah, exactly. So one of the things that is really struck me, look, Netflix will be fine without this. I think they really want it now. You know what I mean? I think they are willing. Egos involved now, Carol. Not just ego, but it's actually could be good for them, too. I don't agree. I think with that money, they could build a bigger business on the road. Possibly. Right. You're right. You're absolutely right. So they'll be fine, whatever. And in slowing everything down, they've created a slowdown for everybody, which is always good for them because they're faster, right? They were lapping Hollywood for years. I sat there. I was like, why are you letting Netflix lap you all for years and years and years? So they have that ability to do that. And they've always stayed fresh. They're a very fresh company, even as old as they are comparatively, right? So they remain fresh and relevant.

And people are learning how to do what they do, but it's taken forever for Hollywood to do so. And one of the things that just gets me is, one, the efforts of Paramount are one to run a shitty business and show that you cannot do content, whether it's over at CBS News, or losing Taylor Sheridan. Come on, landmen. The world before HR, I love landmen. Okay, I know you do. A bunch of men drilling where they're not supposed to drill, people die, and then they pay them off and everything's better. How could you ruin 60 minutes? What a bunch of fucking idiots. I'm sorry. Like, how could you, how could you get Anderson Cooper to walk out? He's such a polite young man. Like, it's just like

you're a bunch of dummies. I'm sorry, I really, I like some of you, but seriously. This is ridiculous. And it comes from the top. I'm sorry. And getting daddy to pay for it is really depressing on so many levels, like so sad. It's like sad, rich kid. And they're going to, let me just tell you, guess who's coming? for you. You think the Democrats won't do anything? You are wrong, Paramount. They are coming at you. If they win these elections, I don't, it's going to be a long time before you get your hands on CNN. It's going to be a long time before you get your hands on any of this. And then let's stop at European regulators. Like, and by the way, now people in Hollywood don't all love Netflix. That is 100% clear. But now suddenly a lot of Hollywood people like Mark Ruffalo, very liberal, is pushing back against James Cameron who's, because he loves

theaters, whatever. There's now, like, a growing, like, hey, leave Netflix alone, like, which is incredible because they're so, like, bossy to most of Hollywood. So Paramount, you have managed to shoot yourself in every foot possible, every toe in the way you've conducted this, and just throw the money at it as you should have done in the first place and just take daddy's money and buy it, but you're still not going to get it easily, especially because you're stressing all this closeness with the Trump administration. It's not going to well for you in three or four months. In the first Star Wars, Jedi Obi-1 Canobi is on the Millennium Falcon,

and he fills a disturbance in the force, and he has to sit down, and he goes, it's as if millions of people just screamed and then nothing. And he's referring to the Death Star, which builds a capability to destroy planets, and Darth Vader orders the destruction of Alderan. You are going to see if the Ellison's get, if the Ellison's close, a Paramount closes on Warner Brothers, you are going to hear a scream from the creative community of which they're not even aware of. Agreed.

You have a melting ice cube in Paramount, and then you'll get this scale. They'll overpay. At this point, they're both overpaying. Whoever gets it is overpaying. And then Father Ellison is going to go, okay, the only way we can get anything resembling a return is to reduce cost by 40%. The fact that Sag Afterra and the writers get. Guild are not hair on fire about AI.

You want to see AI come to an industry and destroy the labor? Oh, my God. Because Ted Surrounded, whatever you think about Netflix, they like Hollywood. They still hire makeup artists. They still do things kind of, I don't want to call it the old way. But if you want to talk about a destruction in human capital, wait until you see what happens here of the Ellison's. I think with CBS, they're like, all right, we have to make some bold, take some risk, because this thing is just going away slowly.

Not in this rinky dink way. I get it. I have a list of people that could have done that. It's hard to defend the execution to date. They had to take some risks here. I wouldn't have taken a lot of risk with 60 minutes. I would have waited until this deal was over and maybe hired a competent person, but that's a different story. Anyway, let's go on a quick break and we come back.

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heavy assets, low obsolescence. Business has seen as largely immune to disruption from AI. Really interesting. S&P, 500 sectors for industrials, materials, utilities, and consumer staples have marched ahead in the last month. Companies like McDonald's and ExxonMobil are taking a win as investors try to take cover from potential AI disruption. Now, you've said a lot of these companies have suffered because AI has taken most of the gains in the stock market. Talk about this. This was a story in the Wall Street Journal, but it's something we've discussed before. It was the other 400 companies, not the first, the top seven or whatever. There's been a rotation out of AI companies into what are traditionally thought of as defense stocks, like Procter & Gamble or Caterpillar. But they have been run up. And so what you've had is you've had this weird phenomena where there's been a pretty serious, like, multi-trillion dollar destruction in the private and public market evaluations of the company's most tightly associated with AI. whether it's Navidia or Microsoft or, you know, they have all gotten hit pretty hard.

What's also interesting, though, and then there's been a rotation into, quote-unquote, the defensive guys that are considered AI immune. Goldman Sachs put together an AI immune index. The opportunity in all of this, and where I'm actually thinking of investing, is that while AI stocks have come down, you know, there's still a massive fear that they're going to destroy entire sectors. And the sectors that are ground zero for this fear right now are traditional SaaS companies, Salesforce, ServiceNow, Adobe, the view is since this new innovation from Claude,

that those businesses, that someone will just automatically put in a prompt, and all of a sudden, overnight, no longer need Salesforce for their CRM for their salespeople, and that overnight, Salesforce is going to go away. I mean, Salesforce and Adobe and ServiceNow, these companies are off somewhere between, between 40 and 70%. These companies, and by the way, there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever. As you noted last week, yeah. So these companies are growing at double digits and trading at free cash flows of like, you know, multiples on free cash flow of 10 or 12. Meanwhile, some of these old economy companies that are growing at single digits are trading at much higher multiples.

So I would argue that one of the biggest opportunities in the market right now is the traditional SaaS companies, As a multiple on their free cash flow, they- This is beyond these Halo companies, beyond the McDonald's. No, I think the Halo guys, quite frankly, are overpriced right now. Oh, interesting. They're low-growth companies trading at exceptional PEs. Meanwhile, I mean, keep in mind, if you think, so at all my companies, we've had Salesforce, I don't care if some kid, if some kid came to me and said, okay, we can kind of replicate

Salesforce with a thoughtful prompt into Anthropic, I'd be like, okay, we're going to have to retrain everybody on a new UI. These companies get so, they have client service, they have events, they have, they have worked out millions of bugs over a couple years. I get invited to Dreamforce if I spend enough money. The thought that all of a sudden people are just going to strip out Adobe or Figma or ServiceNow is just these companies are so deeply embedded. You can call it technical debt.

You can call it switching costs, whatever it is. In addition, if AI can actually take the coding down to something meaningless, then what will happen, I think, is that these SaaS companies will reduce their cost by 10 or 20 percent, which gives you their actual coding and technical costs are only 10 or 20 percent of their revenue. The other 80 percent is marketing, branding, client service, design, events. So that shows you where the value is. They'll do the same thing and then pass on those savings. might see some mild margin compression, but I think the flight into quote-unquote defensive stocks, I think that trade has been overdone. And I think there's one of the biggest, I haven't been able to find value anywhere. I've been selling, not buying, but the first time in a long time,

I look at these SaaS companies. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere that a large corporation is giving up Adobe or Salesforce and putting a new prompts into AI. So I think that threat has been massively over-done. Also, I think the rotation into these more traditional low-growth companies, quite frankly, I think those guys are really overvalued right now. These are low-growth companies trading at tech growth multiples. Yeah, I would agree. I think you're absolutely right. I think that's a really interesting take on that. It is interesting of people that are looking beyond AI, right? Like, where are the opportunities? And I think, I think your argument is excellent. So what do you buy? Oh, I'm going to put together probably a basket

of Figma, Adobe, Salesforce, maybe service now. But I look at those companies. And unless there's a collapse in their business model, do you know how hard it is to get rid of, I remember, you know, these companies are so deeply embedded. I remember we were paying $25,000 a year for my terminal for Bloomberg. And we thought, okay, let's go to Thompson Reuters as cheaper. Bloomberg is so tightly integrated into your life if you're managing a hedge fund. Even messaging, the way we messaged other people in the hedge fund business. Things do get replaced, though, over time, Scott. I think what's going to happen here is margin compression.

Like, you used to buy in a box, if you remember, a lot of this stuff. But I think they'll cut costs. I mean, I still think, for example, Salesforce, I actually think there's really brilliant branding. They have built some of the tallest buildings in every one of their markets in the world. There's probably, if they needed to, quite a bit of cost they could cut and pass on to their consumers. There is. That's because Mark Benioff has penis building problems. These are smart people. What they might say is if they see a threat, they might say, oh, Salesforce is now 0.6x per seat versus X per seat. These are smart, well-run management teams.

And by the way, no evidence whatsoever that any of this is impacting any of those companies. Yes, that is the bigger point. All right, Scott's going different than Halo. He's going, what are we going to call them? S, S, not dead S software as a service. Abandoned. It's like that little monkey who is rejected by his family and found a plushy. It's the plushy strategy. I know you watched that. I can't stop watching that little monkey.

I know. I can't stop watching. Did you see the one where? His mom rejected him and they gave him a plushy. I know, but did you see the one where they, it was, speaking of AI use, where the monkey attacks all the other monkey. The monkey with the plushy attacks all the other monkeys. He starts doing kung fu on them? Yeah, starts doing kung fu on them.

Like he's had enough. He's going to punch. Anyway. I just thought, I saw that. And granted, I think I was on an edible. And I'm like, that's my purpose in life is to be other people's plushy. Plushy. That's my purpose.

You are my plushy. Anyway, this could go somewhere weird really quickly. So I'm going to move on. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. All right, wins and fails. I shall go first because I have declared myself first. So when the Olympics just ended, they were quite good.

U.S. women, and women in general dominated. Americans' female Olympians won six gold medals and 17 medals overall. American men won four gold medals and 12 medals over here. It's not a competition, but they did really well. And in any case, one of the things I was really struck by was not an American, but someone who is American, Eileen Gou, who won the gold medal in the women's freesky half-pipe event for China. She's been meddling for China, just won a couple of silvers. She's been really plagued by stupid questions, largely from male reporters, but she got asked a question when asked by a woman, do you think about your words before you speak?

It actually was a very complimentary question saying, you're so well-spoken. How do you do it? And so let's listen to her answer, which I thought was so superb. She's gorgeous. She's a model. She's a skier. She's an athlete, et cetera. Let's listen.

Do I think? I think overall I'm just a pensive person. Like I'm a very introspective. I'm an introspective young woman. Like I spend a lot of time in my head. And it's not a bad place to be. I journal a lot. I break down all of my thought processes. I think I apply a very analytical lens to my own thinking. And I kind of modify it because it's so interesting. You can control what you think. Like you can control how you think. And therefore you can control who you are. And especially as a young person, like I'm 22. So with neuroplasticity, on my side, I can literally become exactly who I want to be. What cool is that?

Like, how empowering is that, right? I think she was quite lively in a way that I really enjoyed listening to her, you know, push back against people. A lot of these athletes, whether there were some of the skaters, the women skaters were astonishing and they're their own people. I really enjoyed this for that, for all these athletes, especially women showing off. They don't have to be adorable little dolls. They were just their own people.

I really like that. My fail is related. It's when Trump called the U.S. men's hockey team in the locker room after their victory where Cash Patel was making a fucking idiot himself, chugging beers and acting like he was 21 when he's old and spending taxpayer money. But let's not get into that imbecile. But anyways, Trump then tried to say, hold my beer to Cash Patel, and he invited them to the State of the Union and the White House. But let's listen to how he said it. We'll do the White House the next day. We'll just have some fun.

We have medals for you guys. And we have to, I must tell you, we're going to have to bring the woman's team. You do know that. Absolutely. I do that. I do believe I probably would be impeached, okay? It's so great to have a really old man make a stupid old man joke, and that is fine. He is what he is, and it was just gross to insult the women who had just won the gold medal.

Instead, the guys laughed, and I get it. I get it, I get it. You're in a locker room. You just won. You're all excited and you have the president calling you. But you don't have to laugh at his jerky joke. And I think its time is over for talking about women like their battle axes or there's such a pain to be here. And oh, the ladies, it's tiresome in the extreme. I'm not someone who doesn't like a good joke. I put up with Scots all the time. But this is just not funny. And it isn't funny to the women's team. Now a day later, after Trump did invite the U.S. women's hockey team, it turns out they simply can't make it. They don't want to hang with you. A spokesman for the team said, we are sincerely grateful for the invitation extended to our gold medal winning U.S. women's hockey team and added that they would not be able to attend, due to the timing and previously scheduled academic

and professional commitments. I love that. And I'm going to just relate very quickly. When my son, Louis, was on a men's soccer, cross team, there was an audio of something where it really insulted the girls in the class really badly. like really, like it was a dumb, stupid, sexually charged song they played. I don't remember it exactly, but they got a video of it, of course,

because everything's videotaped. And it was gross what they were doing. They were insulting their classmates, like, in a really sexist way. And Louie wasn't singing the song. He was in the video. He wasn't singing the song. But I remember, you know, when I saw it, I was so disappointed in him because he didn't say anything, right?

He didn't, like, and I know he couldn't. He was in the locker room. And so we had a great talk at the time. And I remember spending a lot of time talking to both my boys about their role in, like you say, protecting women, not just protecting. But don't laugh at stupid shit like that. Like, you don't have to go along just to get along. And it was really, it reminded me at that moment when Louis said to me at the time, you know, I didn't do anything. And I said, you didn't do anything.

That's exactly my problem with you at this moment. And I get it. I get what it's like being a boy. I get the pressures of it, but honestly, U.S. men's soccer hockey team, you know, just be better. Let's just say. Let's say, be better. That was what I would say to you. If I was your parent, I'd slap you back to last Sunday. Anyway, that's my. Go ahead. Congratulations, by the way, U.S. men's hockey team and the women's hockey team. I thought the highlight of the Winter Olympics was Megan Keller, who scored the overtime. I grew up going to hockey games. It was the only one of the few ways my father and I, bonded. We used to go to L.A. King's games and watch Marcel Dion and Whitey Whiting and Rogy Vichon. And so I know something about hockey and I used to go to Maple Leafs games with my father. The overtime goal from Megan Keller, hands down for me, was the ultimate demonstration of

athleticism, grace under pressure. And keep in mind, you know, these women are really doing it for the love of the sport. They don't, their league does not pay off. a lot. Can I point out, Alyssa Lou and the three others, the three other women from the U.S. were all supportive of each other. Like, they weren't like at each other's fucking... There's this level of camaraderie. I do not fault the men for laughing. They're in a locker room. They're talking to the president. And most of them are like 23-year-olds from Wisconsin. I get it. I get it. Not that there's anything wrong. But I don't fault them. I felt the president for not setting a good example for young men. You know, that's just not. And but the women, did you see the

final of the women's hockey. Yeah, it was amazing. The goal she pulled off was so extra, I kept watching it over. I spent 20 minutes watching it 40 times. I know. It's amazing. Anyways, Megan Keller was. You're right.

They don't get to be star in heated rivalry, etc. They, it really is. They're in a star. Oh, my God. It's like the women's soccer team. It's like the women's hockey. That's already happening. You got one viewer.

I'm sorry. That's already happening. But we'll go into it in great time. Go ahead. years win and fail. Well, it's one thing, and that is, okay, so we let our thoroughbreds, U.S. corporations, run, and we have structural systemic laws that tell them, okay, you can't pour mercury into the river, and if an industry becomes so consolidated, it starts extracting unfair rents from labor or consumers, the government moves in. Other than that, one of the reasons

for our economic growth is we err on a lack of regulation or government intervention. When the president starts weighing in and saying the most ridiculous shit about a board member. He called her racist. Oh, yeah, Susan Rice, like famous racist. So that's not even my fail, though. We've expected that kind of weak and weird socialist slash communist slash autocratic behavior that hurts our economy. What I can't stand is that Democrats do not lack all creativity around how we're going to strike back. And let me just give you one idea, because I love the idea of economic activism,

and that is, all right, a kind of beltway on ramp into greater wealth is the following. You serve in Congress or in the cabinet, and you go on because you're an impressive person with strong connections and an understanding of the world, you go on to serve on corporate boards and make some money. I bet Susan Rice has made millions of dollars on the board of Netflix. And by the way, I think it's great. She worked her ass off. I don't mind. There should be a cooling

off period going to work for lobbyists. But I have been on boards with former, the New York Times, we had Bill Kinard, the former head of the FCC, went on to be the American ambassador to the EU. I was on a board with Rick Snyder, who went on to be the governor of Michigan. I think it's great that they serve on board. So they're talented, thoughtful people. They deserve to make money. I have no problem with it. But if the president starts fucking with Democrats on board, leaders Jeffries and Senator Schumer, why the fuck are you not fucking back? And this is the following.

For example, Mike Pompeo, former head of the CIA and Secretary of State. He is on a board, and I did this in about 10 minutes of research. He is on a board called Veon, which is a single-class share company. And when I used to do activism, I had to spend $150,000 to $250,000 to file 13D and nominate directors and get lawyers involved. I have now written up the filings for nominating governors at this single class share company. And I did it in about seven minutes using AI. I'm going to buy one share in this company.

And I'm going to start targeting Republicans on boards and not renominating them. and then maybe go after another board member. And anyone in Congress, who's a Republican, who decides they too would like to make some money on boards, well, why aren't Schumer and Jeffrey's saying, we're going to be back in power, folks. And if you want to go serve on boards, as Susan Rice did, we're going to start fucking with you.

Now, look, Scott, the thing is, what he's doing is totally wrong, so you should do the wrong thing in order to meet him. Like, that is a hard decision. You fire a gun at me. I am pulling out my gun and I am shooting you in the fucking face. All right. This is about incentives and this notion that Democrats that were higher and mightier and that will restore the con, fuck that.

Okay. Fuck that. You want to deny the Constitution and engage in deprave criminal behavior against us. We'll find folks. If you think we're going to restore, just go back to being the nice guys who are genteel and restore the norms. No, that is the wrong incentives. There needs to be a loud and clear message

to the Republicans who are grabbing their ankles as America gets fucked here. Be clear. You want an autocracy? Fine. We'll show you an autocracy when we're back in charge.

Sorry for the lecture. Okay. All right. I think they're not going to be invited the next Democratic getaway. There's other ways to fight back that are just as devastating to them that you don't have to do what they did.

There's lots. someone called me from one of these companies and it's like, oh, I don't think the Democrats are going to hurt us. I said, oh, they're going to hurt you. You're just not the same way. They're not afraid. They think we're going to go back to strongly worded letters. No, they're not going to. I think there's going to be action. I do. I just don't think we have to do it the way Trump is doing, which is essentially acting like Putin. Anyway, just for people don't know, Trump's favorite judge, speaking of fails, Eileen Cannon just blocked the public release of Special Counsel Jack Smith's report on the classified documents case against Trump, trying her best to get into the Supreme Court. or Eileen or Aileen, whatever your fucking name is, you suck, and you're going to be overturned on appeal.

Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. We don't want to hear from Judge Cannon at all anymore, hopefully. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show. We'll call 85551 Pivot elsewhere in the Kara and Scott Universe. This week on On with Kara Swisher, I spoke with Chris Applehands and Maggie Kang, directors of the K-pop Demon Hunters. Maggie is also the creator. And Scott, you got a mention. Let's listen.

How do we get Scott to watch it? Do we just tell him every? Let's tell him everyone's hot. That'll work, right? Because everyone's hot. So watch it, finally. Do it. I just got him to watch. He did rivalry. Oh. I know. It took a bit, but I finally got him. I am going to make, when I'm with him at South by Southwest, I'm going to go to his room and we're going to watch it. He and I will have to cuddle with him. But that's what it takes. That's what it takes. I'm going to do that. So I promise I will get him to watch it. And I will give him an edible and I'll put him right in front of it. And that's how it's going to go. What's the show? K-pop demon hunters.

You have not watched it. I have not. But I don't have young kids, isn't it for a little kids? No, it's an adult movie. Just watch it. You're going to watch it with me. You and I are going to watch it. Okay?

We're going to cut off. Yeah, that's definitely got involved. Some sort of THC. Edibles. They're sexy cartoons. You'll love it. Aren't those folks billionaires now? No, no.

Watch thing ever on Netflix? It is, but I think they got, didn't get, again, like he did rivalry, they got it, they got it for a song. But I think they did fine. I mean, they're amazing. It's an amazing podcast. I love K-pop Demon Hunters. It's not for kids, actually.

It's a very complex show. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Vivid. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Today's show was produced by Lara Amin, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Nier-Tott engineered this episode. Rich Schibli edited the video.

Thanks also to Dubros, Miss Verre, and Dan Shalanda Shark, Kroaz, Vox. Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at NYMag.com slash pod. We'll be back later on next week for a breakdown of all things, tech and business care. Have a great rest of the week.

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