Pivot - The Apple Vision Pro, Being Present, and Scott’s Hair

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Scott Free August is over, welcome to Scottember! As we head into the holiday weekend, Kara and Scott open the listener mail bag to answer questions about whether we’ve hit peak Apple, how to stay present with kids, and what to do when you’re working for a company whose policies don't match your morals. Plus, do Apple Vision Pros make you look rich?! And when was Scott's last good hair day? Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway. Today, we have another Scott visit during what's supposed to be Scott-free August, but he never can quit us. That's really what's happening here. So we're opening our listener mailbag. What a thrill. You're welcome. I'm literally, you went off opium.

You went off the opium of daddy for a couple of weeks. Little taste of the dog. Little taste of the dog. As this airs, what are you doing right now? Give me a visual. What am I doing? I'm in this bad apartment in Aspen. No, no, no.

What are you doing when this airs? When this airs? In August? Yes, just say, where are you right now when this airs? What are you, give people a visual of you right now. Okay, this is literally what I will be doing. My two boys will be dressed up as seals in the waves at Nobadir Beach. and I will be on the shark app freaking out about how many refrigerators with teeth are now in Cape Cod.

And I will not be able to relax on the sandbar in the middle of the Atlantic called Nantucket as I ignore all the privilege and blessings in my life and stare at a phone looking at these refrigerators with teeth that have been tagged by some brutally vicious scientist who's given me the ability to track great whites now. That will be the visual. That is me when we hear it. Sitting on the beach. So it's Jaws, essentially. You're Roy Schneider in Jaws. Scheider. Roy Scheider? Roy Scheider. Yeah. I love Roy Scheider. Yeah. Remember, he did that. He sat on the beach and was demented. Like, remember? Yeah. No, I can't relax when my kids are in the water.

I mean, there's literally like seals 50 feet away. Anyway, that's what I'll be doing. Are you eating soft serve in any way? Soft serve? No. Have you been to Nantucket? Yes, I have. It doesn't feel like your kind of place. I don't like it.

Everything's the same and they're proud of it. All the design is the same. They think that's great. That's called zoning care. I don't like it. Everything's the same and they're proud of it. All the design is the same and they think that's great. That's called zoning care. I don't like it. Every building should not be the same. I like differences in things. Nantucket and the pants, the wide-wheel corduroys and the... I don't like it. I'm going

to Martha's Vineyard. I'm going to Martha's Vineyard. Oh, that's the same thing. It's different. I gotta admit, I did want to like Nantucket and we love it. I know you do. It's just so charming and so... I don't listen to me. it's an island, and the kids can run around and go crazy. That's true. Anyway, well, I'm glad we have that visual of you on the beach there. Think of him right now as we're taping weeks earlier.

Before we get started, a note that some of the messages have been edited for clarity and brevity. I'll read the first one. Hi, Kara slash Scott. Again, I'm first. Love the show. The question I have for both of you is, have we hit peak Apple? The stock just hit $3 trillion,

but stock price can be lagging indicator loaded with historic bias. It's sometimes hard to see beyond a serial winner until they start to stumble. Just ask Novak Djokovic. Here's the thing. Apple's value proposition is, quote, the experience is the product.

Problem is they run out of Steve Jobs, Johnny grade products. The goggles seem oddly un-Apple here's the thing Apple's value proposition is quote the experience is the product problem is they run out of Steve Jobs Johnny Grade products the goggles seem oddly un-Apple close to home I just took delivery

on my new M2 MacBook Pro the kids reaction dad that thing's a brick that's not an Apple response you pay for the

oohs and aahs not the sniggles and giggles it's actually a great machine but that's not the point so for all Tim Cook's financial wizardry does the product company have a product problem? Would love to hear your thoughts.

Harry, let's go. Scott, go for it. Go for your little rant on Apple. No, it's like I think demographics are destiny. And if you look at probably the most powerful demographic trend in the world is population decline. Everyone was worried about the population bomb and it's detonated, but it's imploding. I think that's going to have huge ramifications on democracies and our influence around the world as we go into population denigration, where we become nations of old people, where all we do is take our entire tax

base and support old people. But anyways, my TED Talk's over. The second biggest one is income inequality. And Apple, as more and more people, as we crowd more and more money into the upper decile of the global population, Apple is the ultimate self-expressive benefit brand. Apple very subtly says to people, I have money, I'm a storyteller, I probably work in the creative industry, or I think of myself as a creative. And that's a very strong self-expressive benefit. And that's the reason why people in Hungary will pay three months salary to have an iPhone. So on a structural level or on a big picture macro level, it's hard to bet against Apple. The reason why you would bet against Apple is you always need to set the macro factors and the brand factors. So to his point, it does look rich or quote-unquote fully valued.

If you were going to hold on to Apple for a long time, Apple's one of those stocks you give to Rachel Dern or Bot Mitzvah or you put in your 401k. Because over the long term, it's just hard to see how Apple doesn't continue to thrive. Okay. So you're not worried about anything in this regard? I own Apple stock. I've owned it since 2008. If you needed money, this wouldn't be a bad time to sell it because it's trading at the upper end of its traditional PE ratio. But the reason I get to do these wonderful things is because one, I found something I was good at. I live below my means. I created an army of capital I could invest. I invested in good companies.

And then I didn't trade. I have owned Amazon and Apple since 2009. And they're up, I think, 30 and 50x, respectively. So finding great companies and holding for the long term is still probably the best means of aggregating wealth. As a fan of Apple, and I am of the way they run the things. And again, you just said it's actually a great machine. That is the point. That's not the point you're saying. It's not the point.

It is, in fact, the point. The people really, they're dependable in ways and delightful still, no matter how you slice it. They can have some, they've had misfires before in some products. But let me just say, I just bought another pair of AirPods. I have the, everybody I saw on the plane had, you know, this was a, had the Max's that could afford them because they're great. And they have lots of choices in this area. I do think this group of managers is getting older. And so it's got to figure out who the new people are and

whether they have the same kind of commitment. This group has been together forever. It's like watching the Rolling Stones or something. They're still real good, but at some point, they're going to need a walker, that kind of thing. And I don't mean that in an age insulting way. It's just who are the fresh faces of that company? And they need to see them because it is the same guys. It's the same eight guys. That would be my biggest worry over the long term. But we'll see.

We'll see where it goes. But they are in a strong position. They do need to enter the AI picture and quick too. Okay, here's another one. Let's listen. Hey, Scott and Kara. I'm an early 30s gay man who works in finance for a big box retailer that recently pulled their pride collection after some angry conservatives complained and threatened store employees. I just got out of a town hall today where leadership announced that moving forward, moments like pride or other

quote-unquote heritage moments will be greatly reduced in stores. The Zoom chat during the town hall was filled with people calling LGBT people groomers, as well as people in the LGBT community saying that this unfettered homophobia in the chat needs to be addressed. Naturally, the leadership deferred to the one LGBT member in leadership and had him be like the token gay to respond to all of this. Anywho, I guess my question is just what do I do here? I 100% disagree that giving into the loudest bigots in the room is the right call, but I'm kind of feeling powerless and like,

I don't know about what to do with my future at this company. Anywho, thanks in advance. Anywho, I love that you use anywho, sir. I would quit. I honestly, I would quit a company like this. I know which one you're talking about, but I am perplexed why they pulled back and they just wouldn't let this just go over. Although right now, I've been hearing from a lot of people who follow right wing groups, all they talk about is trans issues on it. They're obsessed with it and groomers and they've been overtaken by these people. And this is their, they think this is the, it's bizarre and extreme and it but it's everywhere within these groups. You are not going to shut these people up. They're really quite manic. They're terrible people, but they're not giving up. You should feel powerless. The fact they're pulling just like gay flags, I mean,

who cares? And when you say heritage, I assume you mean Black History Month or anything else. I just, I find this, I think these companies have got to do what Disney did, which is like, we're sticking with it. We're sticking with it. I think they're terrified at Disney about the white supremacists showing up in front of the gates at Orlando. But I would just, I would hope these companies just stick with it and not go backwards. I don't know what to say, Scott. I mean, there's a few things. I do acknowledge that it's sort of a slippery slope. You would like to think as a company that, look, this is a platform for helping you create economic security for you and your family. And with respect to politics, anything, we're just going to try and

avoid it. I understand that strategy. But when you're a retailer, you're talking about merchandising, you're talking about categories that drive your business that over-index gay, which will probably trigger some people, but it's true. You want to be seen as an organization that protects and that is on the right side of history. And there's just no getting around it, regardless of what your personal beliefs are. know, getting around it, regardless of what your personal beliefs are. If you want to be on the right side of history, you err on the side of acceptance and protecting special interest groups and evangelizing for their rights. I mean, just look at history. Anytime we have not protected and not espoused and advocated for our brothers and sisters across every race, creed, sexual orientation, you are on the wrong side of

history. This also goes to me as something about in-store behavior and a broader point, and I'll sound more like a Republican now. I think retailers and local police authorities and local enforcement authorities need to start arresting people in stores that commit crimes. I think anyone who threatens an employee for any reason should be arrested. And I think anyone who threatens an employee for any reason should be arrested. And I think anyone who steals anything should be arrested. And stories have become the Wild West, just like these school board meetings where people with no kids in their school show up and say really hateful things. This was an opportunity to say, we have a wonderful LGBTQ contingent in our employee workforce. We are thrilled to celebrate them in any way we can. And if you don't like it, don't come into the store. But if you come into the store

and you threaten anybody, we're going to arrest you. And I think it was an opportunity for them, and then it would have gone away. And all they have done is alienated a key component of the workforce, not only gay people, but people who think of themselves as progressives and want to be on the right side of history. They just missed a big opportunity here. I agree. You compared it to Nike doing the right thing versus Bud Light, the people at Anheuser-Busch. Disney did the right thing in terms of this. This is, also statistically, most pedophiles are straight. Like, God, God, like, stop it.

Like, stop, like, demonizing gay people for a problem that's widespread among the straight community. A terrible problem, actually. I personally, and granted, it's a big company and there's free speech. If you call a group of people groomers, in my view, that's cause for immediate dismissal. When you accuse a group with no evidence of raping children, there is no worse slander. And also, there's no evidence. What there is evidence of is that the gay community is more likely to be subject of criminal, of crimes, as opposed to the perpetrators.

And I remember when I was applying to be a big brother when I was younger and I was living in LA, basically they put you through an interview process and I get it. And I understand they have to be very careful around kids, but basically the entire vetting process was, are you gay? Can we speak to a girlfriend of yours? And basically what they don't recognize is it is so important that we get men

involved in young men's lives. And there's absolutely no evidence showing that gay men are any better or any worse at mentoring young men. And so just stop it. This notion that somehow being gay makes you more inclined or more prone to criminal activity, much less the most heinous criminal activity. I mean, essentially, the Catholic Church and Michael Jackson have fucked it up for all of us. And that is, men are now afraid to get in young men's life for fear that people will suspect their intentions. So, the term groomer really has to be shut down. There are pedophiles. They come from every walk of life. It is hard to predict who they are going to be or not going to be. And sexual orientation is not a signal of it. And it is literally the most slanderous thing you can say about somebody. Anyways, reverse engineering all of this to Target. They missed an opportunity. They missed an opportunity. Because I'll tell you, show me anyone who comes in and yells at an employee about pride. I'll almost guarantee you, they didn't graduate from high school and they have no fucking money. And they're slowly but surely being starched from the gene pool. So they're not your core audience. You're not going to lose a lot of money. And yeah, maybe some crazy right-wing podcasters will talk about it and call for a boycott. But guess what? That group doesn't matter. They don't have any money. Yep. The majority of pedophiles and child sex offenders

are heterosexual. Study after study after study, it represents the population. It just does. Sorry. I mean, it's repulsive. Anyway, I would quit. Don't quit until you have another job. Don't quit until you have another job. You have an obligation to take care of yourself and your family. Don't quit until you have another job. But please don't ever stop saying any who. It's the best thing ever. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, a listener has a challenge for you on your Apple Vision Pro views. Oh, excellent. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle.

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I try to carve out time for them. I spent some time recently with my second son, Alex, who's 18 in San Francisco, just me and him. I did the same thing with Louie, my oldest son, before he goes off. I take Clara alone some of the time. So she has just focused on her and saw the same thing. And I don't think you should feel guilty about working. I just think you're going to feel guilty no matter what you do. But I definitely try to find moments throughout the day for each kid in some fashion, I think. I don't feel that guilty in general because I think I do communicate with them all quite a bit. What about you, Scott? I think a lot about this.

And I think that, and this will trigger some people, I think that men should initially or at least, I think a good place to start is to take economic responsibility for being a provider for your family. And sometimes that means getting out of the way or being more supportive of your partner who's better at that whole money thing. And one plus one can't equal three. But I think a good place to start as a man is to assume that you are going to take responsibility, economic responsibility for the household. And there's no getting around it. It involves trade-offs and sacrifices. I barely saw my kids under the age of five. And the reason why I can spend a lot of time with them now is because I made those sacrifices. And so everything is a trade-off. You can have it all, but you can't have it all at once. I think a lot about this in the sense that I spend a lot of time with my kids because I'm

at that stage right now where I'm panicked about losing them. So I have the resources and the flexibility to spend a lot of time with them. But something I struggle with is being present. I'm in my head a lot, and I'm not there. Even though I'm there physically, I'm not there a lot. And let me just say, there's no such thing. There's no such thing as quality time. Quality time was a term invented by rich white guys who spend no time with their kids and want to compensate and pretend they're good fathers because they spend quality time with them. There's no such thing

because the quality moments with your kids will come randomly. You'll be in a car and you'll say something and you have a moment with that child and you can't force these things, you can't predict them. On a much more meta level, and I've been thinking about this a lot, them. On a much more meta level, and I've been thinking about this a lot, I worry, and this is something we all have to deal with as successful people or as people who struggle with anxiety or depression. I struggle with anxiety and depression, and that's because I'm in the past too much. I don't forgive myself. I don't forgive other people. I dwell too much on things, and it attacks me. It attacks my soul. I also spend too much time in the future because I am successful. And part of being successful is constantly trading off the

present for the future. I am always working. I am always thinking about work. I am always planning ahead. I am always sending emails to my team. Did you think about this? Did you do this? So the reality is my living in the past and my planning for the future narrows, shrinks, erodes the present for me. And the fear, the fear for all of us is we get to the end of our life, right? And you look back and you think, oh my God, what a life of blessing. What a life of achievement. What a life of love. But I was never really there. That's the fear. But I was never really there. That's the fear. And so what I try to do, what I try to do, and I tell every person that struggles with any sort of anxiety or mental illness or is successful, you got to crowd the present. You got to find time to stop thinking about the past. Forgive yourself. Forgive others.

You got to stop thinking about more money. others, you got to stop thinking about more money and you got to figure out a way to extend your arms and just be there in the present because it's literally all we have. It's all we have is the present. You know, I don't think it's, you know, I don't think about the past very much. When it's done, it's done. I don't think of the past. I'm like next kind of person. I do when I wasn't talking about quality time. I'm talking about focus time. Because I think if you have a lot of kids or more than one, you can't give focus. They're all competing for attention and noise at a dinner table when you have a lot of kids. It's very hard to... The other day, Alex was talking about something and then Louie made a point and then

Clara wanted attention and so on. It's hard to... You're undercutting all of them. So I'm talking about spending time individually with them is always a really good time. Individual time, whether, just anything, going to a movie, you don't have to, it doesn't have to have meaning or great import. It's just to take a little bit of time so you can focus on each other. You're absolutely focusing because there's so many distractions, whether it's Twitter or Threads or X, whatever it's called now, or, you know, some movie or some news. I'm a news junkie. And so that's what I tend to do. My kids are also news junkies, my older kids. So you're right, being present, but you don't have to stare deeply into someone's eyes to be

present. You know, you don't have to like force yourself because then people's attention span is low. Well, it's just even just turning off your phone. Yes. Putting your phone upside down on the table is what I do because I know I have a problem. But I see what you mean about you being present. Sometimes I feel that with you. Sometimes you're sort of somewhere else. You're wandering. I'm sorry.

What did you say? Sometimes with you, you do that. I know that I'm thinking of it. That was a joke, Kara. Get it? I'm sorry. What did you say? I get it.

Oh, sorry. See, now you're doing it to me. Yeah, you do that sometimes. Sometimes you do that. You do. You're somewhere else. You're often somewhere else. I'm burying my head. And I think we're also getting bred that way in a lot of ways, given all the hair trigger. Anyway, I would say being in the present is an excellent piece of advice from Scott. It's hard and you have to really practice it, really, given the stakes. Okay, this one came in from a listener via email. Let's read.

Hi, Kara and Scott. I'm a technology and data lawyer in DC and an avid listener to your show. My husband and I are in our 30s. We have no kids. And aside from our mortgage, we paid off all our major outstanding debts. We generally feel like we're on the right track except for one big looming specter. We know that our parents, like a lot of boomers, do not have enough money saved for retirement and that caring for them will largely fall to us in the very near future. Do you have any tips for providing for parents

while achieving our own financial goals? Our parents are incredibly humans and we feel like they deserve to have a nice life. It hurts to think of them having to scrape by after all they did for us. Thanks. That is a good question. I think about this all the time and you do right now, Scott. I know you're in LA. You have money to deal with this and I do too, not as much as you, but it's a looming specter trying to figure it out because this is a big deal for a lot of people. I don't know if there's an answer. Scott, why don't you go first,

and I'll think about it a little bit more. It's a tough one. And people don't like to talk about actual money. And I think that that's a, I don't know, a DNA or a certain level or a certain dictum in our society such that people don't know how much other people make money. Corporations do it to create asymmetry of information, which benefits them. You know, never talk about your salary and you're not supposed to talk about money. And I think that's been promoted by people who have money. So you don't know how much money they have and how unfair our economy is sometimes. Anyways, my point is, I'm about to share my numbers. My dad lives in a nice home, an assisted living facility. It's nice. It's not anything super luxurious. And he's been falling. He fell this weekend. And so now we not only have a woman who spends time with him during the day, who's wonderful, now I have to have someone there at night. I will spend $270,000 this year on my dad's care. That is about $450,000 pre-tax. So me trying to take care of my dad is a half a million dollars in salary a year.

Okay, so how many people in America can do that? And the answer is very, very few. And so what happens is the parents end up living with the family, and it's almost always that the woman in the household becomes the primary caregiver, taking care of kids and aging parents. Old people are living much longer, and sometimes that quality of life isn't extended as great as the extension in just their lifespan. This is a huge issue. And my only solution here is that the government – I think we need to look at non-traditional ideas. And it would cost $40 billion a year to give everybody who's born $7,000.

year to give everybody who's born $7,000. And I would treat them like infants and say, we're going to put this $7,000 in a variety of index funds and you get it when you're 65. And what that means is by the time they're 65, they would have over a million dollars. But this is a big problem for our society because the reality is a lot of boomers haven't saved enough money and they become liabilities not only on the kids, but on the government. And they're living much longer than they anticipated. So this is a big issue, and we need to look at nontraditional forms of financing their retirements, because it's a huge strain on families. It is. My dad died when he was 34. But one of the things, and of course course it would have been amazing if he could

have lived, but even having one parent and your mom is no longer living is hard. My mom, of course, escaped assisted living, but it was very expensive. It was not just expensive in terms of money, but also time and worry and trying to figure it out. And especially when you're dealing with some older people who just are obstreperous about the lack of control, which I get completely. So it's an emotional thing. It's difficult. She has three kids and we all struggle with it together, right? It's expensive. We hope she doesn't run out of money. You know, she has some money. She has over the course of her life. But it's definitely without money makes it easier.

It doesn't make it easy. But without money, oh, my God, or with limited funds. It's just it's and there's nothing. You know, I have a friend who's always saying America, you know, because the way they do it in other countries, there's bigger groups of community and larger families that stay in the same place. And even my grandmother had that. She had all her family, all her sisters. She had, I think, seven or nine brothers and sisters. I think it was nine in the same town. And so, she ended up being the last person to die of that era, which was harder, but she had a big family around her. I just, you're going to have to pay. Our country does not care about old people or babies, you know, in terms of our education of everybody.

And so I don't, you're going to have to pay. So seniors get a lot in the form of Social Security, but kind of the last 10 years gets so expensive because they just need a lot of care. And people are living longer. so expensive because they just need a lot of care. And people are living longer. This is a debate going on within the Republican Party of suddenly not paying younger people, not guaranteeing them Social Security, but continuing to pay the old people so you can get the votes. It's just a really, right now, go look at some of the stuff going on around this issue. It's going to run out of money in 10 years or something like that. 40% of all government spending goes to people over the age of 65, and it's going to go over 50% in about 20 years.

It's unsustainable. I literally think for $40 billion a year, you give every baby $7,000. They can't touch it until they're 65, because a lot of this does come down to money. But it's going to get worse. It would actually be more than a million, but it's going to get worse. It would actually be more than a million, but it's going to get worse because with lower birth rates, you're just going to have fewer young people. There's going to be a lot of only children supporting, trying to figure out how to take care of mom and dad.

Yeah, it's true. That's why I had so many kids. I joke with my kids all the time, but it's 100. It was totally in the back of my mind was, okay, at least one of them. That's why I wanted a girl. I have no idea who's going to take care of me. Other than you. You. Oh, your sons will. Oh, come on. I will. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll wheel you around in a wheelchair, everything else. All right. Because

you know I'm going to live to 112. All right. Here's another one. I'll read it. Scott likes to say that no one will want to wear a product unless it increases their attractiveness to potential mates. In fact, he says that a lot. Apple Vision Pro may look dorky, but does it signal to those around you that you are tech savvy and wealthy? When you're waiting in an airport lounge or at a Starbucks and you see someone wearing it, what does that say about that person?

They aren't just dorky, but they have a lot of disposable income. Tom Boardman, they also have no shame. I would totally do that, Tom. Scott, why don't you answer this? Does it not say, does it not signal they have some dough to spend They also have no shame. I would totally do that, Tom. Scott, why don't you answer this? Does it not say, does it not signal they have some dough to spend if they could sit around with this thing on their face publicly? They don't care?

What? No, it says they've given up all hope for a random sexual experience. Oh, God, give me a break. You're going to put on your Apple Mixed your Apple mixed reality headset as a means of communicating wealth. I'll stick with my Panerai and my Range Rover. And that gives me a one in a hundred chance of a random and sexual encounter. You have a one in none. This thing is literally, I didn't kiss a lot of people as a young man or woman, but I made some money, and now I can afford this thing.

This literally will save marriages. Okay. There's absolutely no opportunity you will have sex with anyone outside of someone who has agreed to have sex with you once you start putting this thing on your head. Okay. I think it's going to be used in the office. It's not going to be signaling anything out in the wild world. In the office. Tim Cook wouldn't put it on. Okay.

He wouldn't get near it. Okay. He wouldn't get near it. Okay. He wouldn't get near it. Tim Cook, by the way, is a very good looking guy. He works out a lot. Yeah. I don't know if he has a partner. He's very private about that stuff.

Good for him. I don't believe he does. He wouldn't get near the thing. He wouldn't get near it. Okay. Anyways. Next time I go to your apartment, I'm going to get my hands on one. I'm going to wander around your apartment and talk to you the whole time.

That's an image. It's going to be great. That's an image. It's going to be great. We're going to have so much fun. Yeah. Well, and I'll turn on my laser disc. Right.

Exactly. Scott, one more quick break. When we come back, a listener wants to know about your hair. Interesting. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data big savings on plans and having your unused data roll over to the following month every month at fizz you always get more for your money terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply details at fizz.ca okay scott let's listen to another one.

Hi, Karen, Scott, Steve from Madison, Wisconsin. I'm a high school AP statistics teacher with a longstanding passion for public education. In my over 35 years of teaching, I've noticed a concerning trend, which maybe you can help me with. The trend is, number one, fewer students seem to be considering teaching as a profession. At the beginning of my career, I'd ask at the end of the year how many kids want to become teachers, and I would have a third of them raise their hand. None of them are now, and many of my colleagues are struggling to make ends meet. You know, they have second and third jobs just to make ends meet. My question is, what do you see the future of public education given these challenges? And how do you think we

address the going disinterest in teaching as a career choice, both financially and professionally? As a fourth generation teacher, I thrive for this education and passionate about it. I just want to know what your thoughts and potential solutions on these issues are. Thank you. Thank you. Nice, Steve, from Madison, Wisconsin. I just want to say I have a, my aunt was a fourth grade school teacher, retired since, always had a second job, by the way, to make more money. And my sister-in-law is a very committed teacher here in California in a public school. She's in the elementary area. I have to say it's a passion for my sister-in-law for sure. I've talked to her more about her job, not for financially. I think that's one of the things. It is frightening. It's not just with teachers. There's been a spate of articles about policemen. It usually was often a family thing,

or the military, also a family thing, not necessarily anymore. People are encouraging them not to go into it. I bet a lot of teachers are doing that. My niece is a teacher too, also passionate about it. I don't think she's thinking about money-making as a career choice in that regard. So I don't know what to say. You can't say just be passionate. I think they should pay teachers more and they should take, not make them responsible for every mental health problem our kids are undergoing. They are so, both of them are committed to their jobs and they, I have to say, they love their jobs more than most people. Scott, any thoughts? Yeah, I think that something needs to happen on a federal level. And that is,

so people in the armed services don't make a lot of money, but they get really strong benefits. They usually get their housing paid for. They work 20 years and they get just 20. If they serve 20 years, they get a decent pension. They get access to, I forget what it's called, the store on base that's subsidized. They get real federally subsidized benefits. They get veterans benefits. I think we need some sort of program similar for primary and high school teachers. Because as much as we talk about paying them more, whenever you call someone a hero, it means that we think they're fucking idiots from an economic standpoint and we don't pay them. When you're making a decent living, you don't need to call someone a hero. Scott, you're my hero. a decent living, you don't need to call someone a hero. Scott, you're my hero. Thanks for saying that. I make as much as you, I think. Anyways, there needs to be some sort of federal program, whether it's student loan forgiveness,

access to federally backed mortgages at a lower interest rate, matching contributions to retirement, because on a local level, it just ends up that the supply and demand of teaching ends up with underpaid teachers. The issue I've been thinking a local level, it just ends up that the supply and demand of teaching ends up with underpaid teachers. The issue I've been thinking a lot about, because I'm writing a book on masculinity, is the single point of failure you can point to when men come off the tracks is a lack of a male role model. And where we have almost no male role models is in our education system. 80% of elementary school teachers are women and like 70% of high school teachers.

And it results in what I'll call fewer and fewer people championing and taking an interest in a young boy's life because you're going to just naturally champion and develop reward behaviors that you see in yourself. And so you have this whole generation of young men coming of age in America who between the second highest rate of single-parent households in the world and no male teachers or few, there are some men who literally come into this world having never had a male role model. And so not only is that – so one, federally subsidized programs that raise the compensation and benefits for all teachers in public schools. And two, we need to recruit more male teachers into elementary and high school educational programs.

I would agree with that. My older sons and my younger kids now have had a lot of both female and male teachers that they've been lucky to have. That's been a real boon. There was one teacher that both Alex and Louie had that really had a significant, a male teacher, a science teacher, that had a significant impact on them. Although they've had great teachers of both genders. And so I think you're right. You can't call them heroes. Just pay them better.

Because there is an element of certain jobs that people do have a passion for. And they love it. I think both my niece and my sister-in-law just love their jobs. You can feel it off them, right? And I think if they just got paid a little more and got a little bit of the, I think, mental health issues, every teacher I talked to said that's the thing that really has been a real burden. I think police officers have the same issue. Just getting handed a bag of trouble that they're not necessarily qualified for, but it just adds to making learning as easy as possible for kids. And having roles they didn't expect. They're very emotionally committed. Teachers changed my life. They changed yours. My fourth grade teacher, I'm sure she's dead now. Her name is Mrs. Frassini.. Teachers changed my life. They changed yours. My fourth grade teacher, I'm sure she's dead now. Her name is Mrs. Frassini. It's changed my life.

So did my seventh grade teacher, who is not Mrs. Gilbert, my English teacher. I absolutely point to them as people who changed my life in terms of just who I am today. I would say you have the same thing. Call out your teacher. Who was it? Oh, Mrs. Banta, Mrs. Heil, Mrs. Golding, my English teacher in 11th grade. I had a lot of people. I had a baseball coach who was really good to me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to name him. Perry Jones, my history teacher. He opened my eyes.

In college, I had a Father Chiafi taught existentialism of all things. Changed my life completely. Yeah. Yeah. The question is, what do we do about it now? And it just isn't working. The supply-demand dynamics of teaching are just not working for teachers. So, similar to the military, we just need some federally subsidized programs to make it more attractive. And again, I'd say the same thing with police and other nurses and things like that.

They make good money, though. They do. Police and nurses actually make pretty good money. They do. But I'm talking about families encouraging people to go in the military, et cetera. Here's another that came in via email. I'll read it because we've been short on dad jokes lately. Oh, my God.

So many dad jokes. This is one of them. I sincerely wish I had a unique insight, a probing question, or enlightened commentary I could share that would elevate the level of discourse on your terrific show. Unfortunately, I have none. I do, however, have an addition to Scott's collection of dick jokes. Oh, thanks so much. Did you hear John Wayne Bobbitt changed his name to what, you ask? Les Johnson.

You're welcome and sorry. Keep up the good work, Steve. That's good. Scott, you're daticalizing our listeners. That's a word that I just made up. That guy the good work, Steve. That's good. Scott, you're dadicalizing our listeners. That's a word that I just made up. That guy's my brother in arms. But I do want to ask him a question. Why couldn't Lorena Bobbitt be a successful film director? Why? Every time she yelled cut, the male actors fled the set. That's good. You know, Lorena Bobbitt, this is tragically, it's tragic. You know, she died in a car accident.

Apparently some dick cut her off. Oh, no. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I thought that was real for a second. I hate you. You know, they both were, but she literally, it's a true story. She served in the same prison as Jeffrey Dahmer, where he said to her, are you going to eat that?

Okay. I could do this all day. Why do you have so many Lorena Bobbitt jokes? For those who don't know, this is a woman who cut off her husband's penis for cheating on hers and then threw it out the window. And then they got it and they put it back on. Thank you. And men still cheat. Even knowing that's a possibility, men still cheat. And they sewed it back on. That's the good news. Oh, it's not good news. None of this story. We're moving on from Lorena Bobbitt jokes. All right. Steve, you should be ashamed of yourself. Did you hear the next person that tried to do this didn't actually kill her husband, but nonetheless, she was charged

with a misdewiener. Okay. All right. That's the last one you get. Scott and Steve, you need to go away. You're a shameful pair. Anyway, okay, last one. I'll read it. I thought I'd ask you two personal questions because I noticed for both of you, that's when you get your guests a little off kilter and then get the conversation after to go somewhere interesting.

Oh, we're not interesting otherwise? Interesting. Kara, you are famously cool and focused in your interviews. When was the last time you blew your top and lost cool professionally? I just don't. I am Chris Hemsworth in extraction. Give me a fucking break. I don't. I can't think of one time where I lost my cool in a professional setting.

Maybe the parlor interview, I got annoyed at him, but I think that worked well for the interview. I knew what I was doing. I haven't lost my cool professionally in an interview. When have you lost your cool personally? All the time with you. Well, here, I get mad at you, I guess. But that's good for us. That's a good thing. That's not true at all.

I don't lose my cool that much. Sometimes, unfortunately, with my kids every now and then, I get frustrated. And I have dialed that back rather significantly. I was talking to Louie about that. I got sort of irritated at Clara for something. And he's like, don't yell. And I'm like, oh, you're right, because I yelled too much at you when you were a kid. But I've dialed it back.

So I say I haven't. I'm sorry. Sorry, Scott. I can't think of one. I don't think I have. Can you think of one? I don't think I've ever. When you've lost your cool?

Professionally, no. No, you're pretty, yeah, you're pretty much Iceman. I am Chris Hemsworth in extraction. I do the job. All right, Scott, this is the same letter. Scott, speaking of tops, Scott, when was the last year of good hair? Love the show, RR. Go ahead.

I remember the moment in my first year of business school. I was 26. I had a ponytail. I used to ride a skateboard around. Yeah. And I was studying. Full head of hair,. I was 26. I had a ponytail. I used to ride a skateboard around. Yeah. And I was studying- Full head of hair. Full head of hair. Granted, it's a low bar, but at one point, my best features were my hair and my abs.

And I've lost both those things. But I remember reading my finance book and thinking, I don't remember underlining this chapter. I'm like, oh my God, it's my hair. And I started losing my hair so fast. What was it? Do you know why it just came out? It's called genetics. Okay. All right. Okay. Up until like the age of 20, like 1920, I was really unattractive. I joined crew. I took Accutane. I got very big and muscular and my skin cleared up. And all of a sudden,

like my world changed. So 21? So from like 19 to 25, I was modestly attractive. See, above 19 to 25. And then I started losing my hair. And one of the nicest things that ever happened to me was I shaved my head, and it just made everything so much easier and so much more efficient. What was that moment?

Let's have that moment. Let's have the Scott. Let's go back. In history, what was that moment when you shaved? What made the decision to do it? And then what was that like? Give us a moment. Let's have the Scott. Let's go back. In history, what was that moment when you shaved? What made the decision to do it? And then what was that like? Give us a picture. I was with a girlfriend in Hawaii.

And she said she actually bought me a clipper and she shaved my head. And it was actually a very kind of sensual, erotic moment for me. And I've never had hair since. Well, why did you? Why there? Because she bought you a clipper? Really? That's what happened?

Well, I think she probably sensed I was anxious. See, here's the thing. There's nothing better than having a full head of hair. That just rocks. I like mine. Having a shaved head is fine. It's actually become sort of in vogue. When I did it, it was considered aggressive.

And I'm convinced that I was able to raise hundreds of millions of dollars based on the fact that I had a shaved head because it was unique back in the 90s. Having a shaved head is good. Having a lot of hair is the best. It's the in-between that sucks. It's losing your hair because the reality is you'll be much more focused on it because it represents a loss of youth and vitality

and you can't do anything about it. It's totally uncontrollable. The in-between is the hard part. So what I would say to any man out there that's losing their hair is just shave your head. It feels, it's kind of liberating. Go Kojak. There you go.

Go full. That's an old reference. Telly Savalas. You have great hair. I do. You have great hair. You know, I was looking at Louie's hair the other day. I'm like, what frigging fantastic hair he has too.

The Swisher Ventries, whatever. Fantastic hair. Although Jeff and David both have hair loss, I would say, just sort of receding hairlines, which is on the mother's side from what I understand. But yeah, we have good hair. We have good hair people. Only one out of 10 men maintain hair volume their whole life. And the thing to remember about hair, and I say this to a lot of young men, it was yet another thing I was self-conscious about when I started losing my hair, is that the amount of attention you place on your hair loss, it's about 0.1 of that across everyone else. No one notices

your hair loss as much as you do. No, that's true. They're going to know, as a man, they're going to notice first and foremost, if you've got a plan and you're executing against it, they're going to notice your height, the depth of your voice, how broad your shoulders are, and quite frankly, whether or not you're executing against it, they're going to notice your height, the depth of your voice, how broad your shoulders are, and quite frankly, whether or not you're killing it professionally and your kindness and your intellect. Your hair, they may notice it. It's pretty far down the list.

But when you're losing your hair, you think that everyone's just staring at your hairline and it's not true. You do bald well. Let me just say, you do bald well. Thank you for saying that. Shaved well, I guess shaved, right? Shaved.

Anyway, those are great questions. And now I know more about Scott's hair loss situation and what he did about it. So nice to know that. Send us more. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show. Go back on your vacation, whatever you're doing right now, all balled up in a closet, missing me probably

is what you're doing in the dark, crying, weeping quietly. The only reason I go away is so people miss me because you'll have all this fucking Wokastan mediocre guests. But anyways, we're really happy they're here.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Andretod, engineer in this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Emil Severo. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Whatever you feel about your own looks, other people just really don't care. It's about you. It's about your character.

It's about your success.