Pivot - The FTC Sues Microsoft and Twitter Blue is Back

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Shortly after we recorded this episode, Sam Bankman-Fried was arrested in the Bahamas. Don't worry, the takes in here are still fresh. The Respect for Marriage Act is headed to President Biden’s desk, and Sam Bankman-Fried will appear before the House Committee on Financial Services... actually, maybe not. Also, Twitter Blue is making a return, and the FTC has sued to block Microsoft’s acquisition of Activision-Blizzard. Then, a spirited listener voicemail on Kara and Scott’s discussions about Twitter. We’ll be back with a Listener Mail episode on Friday! Send us your questions! Call 855-51-PIVOT or go to nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.

How's it feel to be 70, Kara? Happy birthday. Thank you. Thank you. And by the way, Scott was part of a video that was made for me with lots of really cool people, but him and Stephanie Ruhl were, you know, threatening me with taking over the entire podcast. And, you know, happy birthday wishes like that. It was really nice. It was super nice. And thank you for making me famous, Scott. I really appreciate it. Well, let's be honest. Your career was sort of on the wane, and I showed up and really helped you out. Look, it's nice to— I don't know what to say.

It's really— I am Tina Fey to your Alec Baldwin. I am Quentin Tarantino to your John Travolta. Both of those were good. I just thought of those real time. Yeah, yeah. Those were good. Okay.

All right. Did you see we won? We were like the top podcast by the New York Times. I just thought of those real time. Yeah. Yeah. Those were good. Okay. All right. Did you see we won? We were like the top podcast by the New York Times. That was nice of us. They said we have a bad marriage, essentially. We're like George Clooney and Julia Roberts in that movie or any more of the roses is how I see it. Now, what did they say? Ex-spouses arguing at a wedding reception?

I thought that was perfect. It was. That was good. They called you lascivious. They called you lascivious. Yeah. I sort of knew what that meant. I had to look it up. And I'm like, lewd. And I'm like, oh, I like it. Yeah, lewd. That was good. They called you lascivious. They called you lascivious. Yeah, I sort of knew what that meant. I had to look it up, and I'm like lewd, and I'm like, oh, I like it.

Yeah, lewd. I like it. Yeah, you're lewd, and I'm competent, really. That's pretty much what it was saying. All right, together we're lompinent. Lompinent. Lascivious. I like lascivious.

That's a nice word for you. I think it's a nice way of saying dirty. Yeah, that's a good word. So wait, enough of that. How was your birthday? It was great. We had a beautiful brunch. Well, hold on. We had a lady party on Friday, which was full So wait, enough of that. How was your birthday? It was great. We had a beautiful brunch. Well, hold on.

We had a lady party on Friday, which was full of ladies, which was fun. On Saturday, I went to this really tony Washington party at Sally Quinn's house and ran into everybody. It was kind of funny. And they sang Happy Birthday to Me, which was kind of creepy. It was all these Washington Power people. And then I had a beautiful brunch with my family yesterday. We drove around Virginia. I saw a picture.

It was lovely. It looked lovely. Yeah, it was lovely. It's my favorite place, which is called Salamander out for brunch in Middleburg. And then we drove around my old haunts where I wrote AOL, went to Bluemont, which used to be called Snickersville. And then we went to the White House to see the Christmas trees with the Golden Child and ran into fans, which was really nice in the line waiting to get in. It was very sweet. I paid for those. I told them you were turning 80 just to show up and be nice. So I want to be serious for a second. Do you have any reflections on 60 or have

you done any? No. I mean, you know, as people know, I'm having a pretty major surgery on Thursday. So I feel really good. I'm doing it. I had a stroke 12, 11 years ago, and I have a hole in my heart, which I'm trying to fill with Scott Galloway. Good luck with that. I do the surgery. I do the surgery. And they're covering it. There's a flap that isn't flapping correctly. So they're doing it through- They go through your groin, right? Your groin, yes, exactly, yeah. And so, it used to be open-heart surgery.

Now, it is a 20-minute procedure. I may or may not stay in the hospital for the night, probably not, if it all goes well. And I'm very excited to do that. So, I was thinking about it because when I saw my new cardiologist and neurologist in San Francisco, they were like, well, if you don't do it, you'll have vascular dementia eventually. So I feel like I feel good. I need to do this to be healthy for my beautiful family, which I have a beautiful family and my wonderful work companions like yourself and the whole big range of friends. I'm reflecting that I feel pretty good about my life. I don't know. I do. I don't like everyone says, are you worried? I'm reflecting that I feel pretty good about my life. I don't know. I do.

I don't like everyone says, are you worried? I'm not worried about the surgery. There's amazing doctors have, have really taken, you know, it's things have gone really well in terms of this particular procedure, which is great. I don't have to have open heart surgery,

et cetera, et cetera. But I feel good. I play armchair therapist, which I've been doing a lot of. You're more worried about it than you would like to admit, because I actually some research on what you're having done, and it's pretty minor, actually. It's come a long way. It's not really dangerous.

It's not. That's right. I am aware of that. I actually called 10 people who had it. I mean, that's the kind of person I am. I mean, don't they do it? Do they do it local, or do they give you pro-Phanapol or whatever it's called? I think they're going to put me out the way you like, I suspect.

I don't know. That's so worth it. I wish I had a hole in my heart. I think I want to be up for that. That shit is good. Oh, right. You love that propofol. Oh, my God.

That shit is money. Do you know my brother, Dr. Swisher, has access to propofol at all times. I'm going to roll with the Swish more, the other Swish, Chase Swish. I know. He flew to China when I had my stroke and took care of me, and he's- He's got a role with the Swish more, the other Swish, Chase Swish. I know. He flew to China when I had my stroke and took care of me and he's going to take care of me there.

So it was very, I just really love my, like my friends and family and people I work with. So I'm very happy. And they mostly love you. They definitely like you. They definitely like you.

I had a really bizarre back and forth with my cousin who I like most of the time, but he was like, Elon Musk is so funny. And we'll talk about this. But this weekend, he attacked this gay guy. And my cousin's gay. And I was sort of like, are you kidding me?

Like, I don't know. That's the only negative thing. If that's the worst thing that's happened to you on your 60th birthday, you're doing pretty well. It was irritating. It was irritating. Anyway, we have a lot to talk about. We have a lot. You're in Doha, right? I'm in Doha drinking Budweiser Zero. And how is that going? It's probably not a good idea, but here I am, Bud Zero. Is there no liquor anywhere? You can have liquor in places, right? No, there's liquor everywhere. But when we checked in, they gave us a Budweiser

Zero. Oh, because they're trying to push that. I'm kind of interested to check out non-alcoholic beer. Anyways, I'm at the W Doha, which is just a contradiction in everything. The W Doha. Why? And it's all, well, the W is very Western. Yeah. Yeah, the Qataris are very wealthy. There was a great story in the New York Times.

They went inside someone's home who had like seven tennis courts and three pools. He's like, I'm not rich. It was incredible. This guy was. Well, what I was reading is like, I think there's not that many citizens of Qatar. They all get paid and get free everything. But then they have this whole working class group of people who do not get paid, who wait on them hand and foot. It was a great story in the Times about this sort of

two Qatar's essentially. Well, as I am here, I'm going to say nothing nice about the Qataris because I am suitably intimidated. I'm here to say nothing nice about the Kataris because I am— Nothing un-nice. —suitably intimidated. I'm here to have a nice time. Please try to behave. Like, don't be like Samantha in that Sex and the City wherever they were. Do you remember that? Yeah.

They're not trading anyone for me. Literally. I would come for you. I would do a taken. I would do a taken. They would not trade anyone for the dog. They'd be like, oh, a postal clerk who was caught shoplifting at Walmart? No, we're not giving him up for the dog.

Sorry, boss. You're on your own. Oh, my God. Yeah. I would come and get you. I would bring a team of lesbians from my lady party, and we would come and release you from Qatar if they – but, you know, I hope you don't get taken. Yeah, you'd be like the Navy SEALettes, the Navy Otters. They're coming for me.

Yes. The militia etherage, as I've told you. Anyway, well, have a good time. It looks like a really exciting – sorry about England, but too bad. Oh, they're coming for me. Yes, the militia Etheridge, as I've told you. Anyway, well, have a good time. It looks like a really exciting, sorry about England, but too bad. Oh, that was heartbreaking. That really was heartbreaking. I was in Dubai watching that game. That was heartbreaking.

I think Morocco's going to win. They think Morocco's going to win, right? You know what? We're rooting. We picked a team. My boys, we have to pick a team. We're rooting for Morocco and Croatia because I went to the finals. Oh, Croatia.

Yeah, that's true. I went to the finals of France, Croatia. Yeah, that's true. I went to the finals of France-Croatia in Russia four years ago. And the most inspiring thing about the game was the Croatian fans. And you could just see how much it meant to them. And I was in Morocco. I'm not exaggerating. I was in Morocco two weekends ago, three weekends ago. And our driver was taking us to—

As one is. Okay. Go ahead. You're getting surgery. I'm roaming the world and staying in the Doha. I was in Dallas, Virginia, as one is. But go ahead, keep going. So we're on our way in our, and he says, do you mind if we listen to the game?

They're Moroccan. I'm like, no, we know Morocco's playing. Morocco wins, right? The game. We're on our way to the airport. The driver had to pull over. He got so emotional. Oh.

And I'm not exaggerating. The food carts on the side of the street, everyone was dancing and going crazy. Yeah. It would mean so much to either of those nations, Morocco and Croatia. Yeah. So, anyways, we're rooting for those names. And it's France. And who's the other one?

France and- Argentina. Argentina. Oh, those are tough. Those are tough. And also Mbappe. Yeah. I think France is going to win I'm sorry to tell you I think that's who's going to win

well there's the World Cup curse I don't think it's I think Brazil repeated maybe in the 50s or 60s but I don't think anyone else has ever repeated alright we'll see I like Morocco

I'm going to go with Morocco I think I like that idea they have a cool kid anyway yeah yeah seems like it

seems like I'm slightly interested now in the World Cup now that it's getting down to the last things and you can you can text me and tell me what to watch. Oh, it's desk. We expect to be quickly signing it along. Even then, there are concerns the Supreme Court can still overturn Obergefell. If overturned, the legality of same-sex marriage would be dependent on states, though through the Respect for Marriage Act, all states will be required to recognize marriages

performed in other states. It's so bizarre. I'm not sure the Supreme Court will overturn it once this is passed. Most people think maybe not. That was the word at the fancy Washington party. But, you know, what do they know? So, you know, a lot of people are complaining that it wasn't enough and this and that. But you know what? It's what it is. You can't, there's only, they needed 60 votes in the Senate.

And it was the right thing to make it law completely. But right now we're in a period of states' rights obsession. So here we are. What do you think? I think on the whole, we're heading in a period of states' rights obsession. So here we are. What do you think? I think on the whole, we're heading in the right direction on this. Yeah. It needed to be codified. It needed to be legislated. And it feels, and also the nice, or one nice thing about it is it does feel slightly, even mostly bipartisan. And I think we're headed in the right direction here. Yeah, it is less than. It is definitely less than, but we've got to have it codified,

and this protects it. If Obergefell fell with the Supreme Court, we'd really be in trouble. That would be a real problem. In any case, this is good that it's the law of the land, and we'll see where it goes from here. Maybe we can add on different things. I think one of the things you're going to see, I did a whole show on this last week, is a chipping away at things the way they did with abortion. Little states will not let you do this, that, and the other thing. Anyway, and Sam Bankman-Fried will appear before the House Committee on Financial Services. He just loves being interviewed by people. He confirmed the appearance in a tweet saying, I still do not have access to much of my data, so there's a limit to what I'll be able to say, but this committee still thinks that would be useful. I am willing to testify. It's unclear whether the

appearance will be in person. He doesn't seem to like to do that. He didn't answer a separate request to appear before the Senate. What's he going to wear, Scott? He's talked to everybody, not Kara. New York Times, Wall Street Journal, New York Magazine, ABC News, Vox, a little-known YouTube content creator, and now Congress. I did an interview today with Vanessa Friedman at the New York Times, who I think is the fashion and style reporter. What? Yeah, she is. I was like, that's an unusual person, but go ahead.

Oh, I love that. You forget, I ran a company called L2, which was all luxury. I used to talk to Vanessa a lot. Oh, you're right, and you're fashionable, but go ahead. Yeah, as I sit here with a Budweiser scarf, drinking Bud Zero. I make a room more fashionable by leaning right now. They are not an advertiser. Go ahead. Steve Jobs and his bare feet or Elon Musk lighting up a joint on Joe Rogan. It's sort of a, I'm such a baller that I can ignore convention, which is meant to signal that I'm bigger than traditional Moors. And it really is a wrap. And, I mean, we've said this before and I said it to Vanessa.

I'm like, a person of color or a woman wouldn't get through security if they showed up at BlackRock or the deal book conference like that. get through security if they showed up at BlackRock or the deal book conference like that. What's interesting, or I think the most interesting thing about that is, you know, where they saw, I think, is her name Carolyn Ellison, the woman who was running FTX, who was also, I guess, at one point his girlfriend and living with him? Supposedly she's been spotted in New York. And you know what likely she's doing there? Finding lawyers? Well, she's already hired a lawyer who was a former regulator who was supposed to be drafting legislation for regulating on cryptos. Now in a private practice, she's lawyered up with a very sophisticated lawyer.

And my guess is, my guess is. She's dropping the dime. She's cut a deal. You know why? She's smart. She has to. She's smart. Yeah. Why? She's smart. Why? She has to. She's smart. I imagine her lawyer sat her down and go, well, he's running around town contradicting himself and on a charm tour, which is not going to work.

This is your moment to cut a deal. And she's going to drop a dime on him. That's really smart. She is. That's right. They're all going to drop dimes on each other. There's more than one person there in that group. And so there's another founder, Ryan Salameh, a whole bunch of them. So there's too many not to drop dimes on each other all over the place.

And I think he's the one they want. They're not going to give him a deal. I can't imagine. There's no one higher than him. That's right. And they need to make an example of him, and that's what they're going to do. 100%. That's what they're going to do.

I think she'll get time. I don't think any of these people are not going to get off with some sort of something. As you said very early, very little effect on the stock market, anything else. And someone wrote a column about that in the Washington Post. And I was like, yeah, I know we said that on, you know, that there isn't, there hasn't been much of a, you know, ripple effect anywhere for this. Well, it's just the market. It's like, what happens if there was fraud in the windshield market? And that is the entire crypto market is now worth, if you just look at the tokens, it's worth $700 billion. Amazon has shed a trillion dollars in the last year.

It's kind of, again, it's more noise than news, more spectacle than significance. I still will be interested to see what comes out of this, as we talked about before, the innovation that comes out of it. There are pieces, and I think it'll be interesting to see all those investors who put so much money in what they're going to do now. They're certainly not going to walk away. And you've seen that before. I mean, Slack was something, it was a game company and then became something else. It'll be interesting to see the innovation. Very briefly speaking of innovation, the U.S. Department of Energy may have a breakthrough in fusion power. This is something that's been a joke a little bit. Like I've gotten fusion. they're expected to make an announcement on Tuesday saying they've generated the first ever fusion reaction with net energy gain. Could be a significant step, but this is something for

the ages if that would be the case. But it's also, from what I understand, I've been reading up on it, possibly dangerous, and yet also the way we've got to go eventually to combine nuclear energy and fusion energy. But it's going to be a long time, a decade. It may be too late. It could be great news, but interesting. We'll follow that story. Do you have any thoughts on fusion? It sounds like we were both doing research on it. My understanding is it's actually quite safe, but the problem is you have, I mean, the idea of getting more energy out of something than you put in without creating externalities is super exciting, right? It's kind of the, it is the, that would be the breakthrough innovation of the last probably thousand years.

Alien technology. Alien technology. And, but the issue is the number, I forget the term for the coefficient of, all right, this much energy went in and we got 1.2 or 1.4 out. But if you look at all of the energy required to build the facility around it, so we have a long way to go. But the fact that they got above one in the, I guess, the fusion is an enormous breakthrough. The other thing that it brings up is that, and I don't think this gets enough attention, if you look at the most valuable companies in the world, they're really a thick layer of innovation on top of this type of breakthrough that's been funded by U.S. government.

Yeah, exactly. be or our infrastructure or our laws, you know, these guys all basically make it sound like they're successful despite the U.S. government. They're successful because of the U.S. government. And these forward-leaning, massive investments that no private company will make because they're very risky and they take decades. Show me any trillion-dollar-plus company, and I'll show you it sits on top of massive government investments funded by the middle class. And this is another example. In 10 or 20 years, there's going to be some douchebag VC who refuses to wear

shoes, who talks about their genius and is building a company that takes this technology. Yeah, they will take advantage of course, everything. The internet, by the way, folks, you paid for. Just keep that in mind. I always say that over and over again. This will be, I mean, this is where you need government funding. I had done several interviews with economists and the amount of money we should be having our government spend on things like that is critically important. And this is exactly the kind of thing the government needs to do. Capitalism isn't going to do this. So it needs an assist from the government and then capitalism can take over. That for sure, that is the most efficient way to get out into the market.

But we'll see where it goes. It's very exciting. But let's get to our first big story. The FTC isn't playing games. Last week, the Federal Trade Commission sued to block Microsoft's acquisition of video game studio Activision Blizzard. It could be the agency's biggest move yet under Lena Kahn, but it could be a long shot. I think it will be. Courts have largely approved

vertical mergers in the past. In 2017, a federal court let AT&T acquire Time Warner and Microsoft is committed to making the blockbuster game Call of Duty available to rivals Sony and Nintendo. I have talked to a lot of people

this week about this and I feel like wrong target, wrong target. I know they sued to stop Meta from acquiring VR Game Maker within, but then let Amazon acquire MGM. This is, they are not going to, this is, Microsoft is not the biggest here. They're helping China and Japan, from what I can tell. And they've hired up some very serious lawyers here in Washington who are fantastic, actually. And it just feels like this is not the one I would have picked if I were her. I'd love to hear her thinking about it.

I should probably try to get an interview with her. But what do you think? Well, it's an oligopoly, right? It's Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony. I mean, I guess it's interesting. gobbledygook, right? It's Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony. I mean, I guess it's interesting. Is antitrust supposed to ensure competitive markets in America among American firms, or is it supposed to solely make markets more competitive such that consumers benefit, even if the players that benefit from prohibiting an acquisition are foreign actors? Do you see what I'm saying?

Because you can bet the Chinese and the Japanese are saying, you know, ride on, girl, in terms of Lena going after them. But I agree with you. I'm not sure this is where you would start. Yeah, I think the way they're going to play it is the FTC is helping China and Japan get better, right? And it's not a bad argument. I think that's going to be one of the arguments. And they own a whole bunch of companies, the Chinese in pieces or wholly, and that it's not good for US. These are both US companies,

Activision and Microsoft. And I think that's how they're going to play it. And I think if they share these popular games, then what's the argument? If they agree to share these and allow them to be and don't make them exclusive only to their platforms, and why would they, by the way? You'd want to be at as many platforms as possible with a game. I just don't feel like this is the one to go on. I would have aimed at Apple much harder. And if she loses this one, it's really not good for the FTC. She certainly doesn't have the resources, given what Microsoft's going to bring to bear here with its group. So very hard. And the thing is, she had to do something, right? She hasn't done anything significant for her wunderkind reputation. Very difficult. She's under-resourced. I did run into Senator Klobuchar at this party,

and the antitrust bill is just swamped, along with her other journalism bill, because essentially the internet companies have shut it down. So, you know, that's the problem. There's all this power, and yet at the same time, this might not be the best thing to go at. What do you think this will do for your prediction that Disney will cry Roblox? That was my long shot prediction. Yeah. Like I said, I think Bob has to do something big and bold. Yeah.

I think he's got to do something. Well, FTC only has a few shots here, and she's got to take the correct ones on goal. But why wouldn't Disney put their hat in the ring and try and do something? For Activision? No, with TikTok. Oh, yeah. Maybe.

If TikTok's going to be spun, why wouldn't Bob go to these? It's not going to be spun. You don't think it's going to be spun? No. No, I do not. I think there's still negotiations with

the Committee on Foreign Investment in the U.S., but I think, no, I think it's just going to have Oracle do their database. Sifius, yeah. Yeah. So much money involved.

There's any spinning. There's no spinning. Fourth most valuable company by the end of 2023. You heard it here. We'll see. They're getting a lot of pressure. In any case, let's go on a quick break. And when we come back, Elon Musk throws some red meat at QAnon.

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All right, Scott, we're back. Twitter Blue is back. Apparently, they rewrote the code, and it's all fantastic now. I'm sure he did a lot of work. That is one thing he's good at, like software. Twitter is once again pushing people to do things beyond their limits. Twitter once again is rolling out a subscription product with some small changes. Users will now have to provide a phone number before getting verified. They'll also lose their checkmark if they change their name and photo until their account is reviewed by hand, apparently. I don't really understand it. The most interesting thing is the price. Twitter Blue will cost $8 on the web, but $11 on iPhone to pay for the 30%. You know, we'll see. There's blue checks everywhere. I don't even, and they're such assholes, let me just say, the ones that attack me. We'll see if it works, if more apps will build an iPhone

price premium and do the web thing. I think a lot of people are doing the web thing. This is not a new, fresh thing again. I used to be one of these people that always thought anytime Elon Musk did something strange or didn't make any sense, I thought Well, there must be some genius. I don't see. This move just doesn't make any sense. I like the idea of identity. I've gotten people upset, but I do like the idea of enforcing some form of identity. The thing that I found most interesting about this, and we'll have, I think, the biggest ramifications, is the $8 versus $11. Yeah.

And that is a direct middle finger to Apple and Tim Cook. Yeah. give you 30% off. So what I took from this was Tim Cook is taking notes and plays the long game. And I wouldn't be surprised in the next 12 months, given the fact that Elon Musk is saying stupid things like my pronouns are prosecute Fauci, that Apple does weigh in at some point and say, you know, you violated our terms of service. No, I don't think they're going at him. You don't think so? They're just going to try to keep him at arm's length. That's really what they're going to do. Just ignore him. Yeah. Getting in a fight with're just going to try to keep him at arm's length. That's really what they're going to do. Yeah, just ignore him. Yeah, there's no,

getting in a fight with him is like, it gives him everything he wants. I think they'll try very hard. Yeah, but you don't fight him directly. You don't take him on directly. You don't say anything. You're just like,

oh, you violate our terms of service. I would, that would be a big move by them. You know that. He shut down Facebook. He cut Facebook's value in half. That's true. That's true.

Yeah, he might do it here. Musk is a little more volatile and dangerous, I think, to Apple, only because of his stance. Mark Zuckerberg's not as well-liked by his fans like a lot of people really despise Elon Musk now. I think it's changing. Yeah, it's changing. We'll see. He's certainly making a spectacle of himself. We'll see if it's a big business.

You know, everybody welcomes a better software Twitter. We'll see if it's a big business. Everybody welcomes a better software Twitter. I have to say it's glitchy and not working as well. I don't understand. Have you noticed that? I haven't noticed that. You've noticed it. Super glitchy. Super glitchy. Things you click on that used to click on that would work. But maybe they'll make better software. Making stuff longer, not a new fresh idea. Again, none of them are new fresh ideas, but better software is always better. And then he can say, I rewrote the software. They love to do that, these tech people. I redid it. It sucked before.

And now it's fantastic. There is certainly room for improvement here. And we'll see if he can sell it. I would not, again, pay for any of the things so far that they're doing. And they can take away my blue check if they want. They probably will. Is there a senior's discount for the check? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

No, no. You look good, by the way. You look rested and good. Thank you. Thank you. Musk is moving in on 60, just FYI. He's not a young man either. Also, as you mentioned, he went on a right-wing rant.

I think it'll be interesting. I think more is this continued right-wing thing, which is, again, a lot of hand-waving and kind of grotesque. The Fauci thing was grotesque. thing was grotesque. And the particular one was the attacks on Yoel Roth, who has become sort of a right-wing straw man for everything wrong with Twitter, which is ridiculous given how loyal he was to. He posted some stuff about a paper that Yoel's an academic wrote out of context and put Yoel into danger, physical and personal. That was really vile. It was vile. I don't even want to repeat the nuance and the accusation because it's just so out there.

It doesn't warrant attention. He has a particular fixation on pedophiles, just like you and I. I thought that was really upsetting. Here's a guy who worked for the company. And you're going after his PhD. And I just thought, you know what? Why would you say something like that? Because this is the horrible thing

about these types of accusations. No matter how ridiculous, no matter how little veracity, a little of it sticks because it's so heinous. And so you really should be, you really should like keep that weapon. From sources near him,

he's had to move out of his house. So, you know, and death had to move out of his house. There you go. And death threats, et cetera, et cetera. These people are crazy. The QAnon people are crazy. Oh, you think? And it's pizza gators. And guess what?

They showed up at the pizza place. So it was just, I don't even understand it. They shot into the pizza place. It's so sad. It's actually, you know what? It's just, I don't even understand why you would do this to someone. And it's all for attention. And the people around him, let me just say, all you people around him that are helping this, you're sickening what you're doing.

And you cannot possibly believe any of this. Some of the people were like, Yoel's the best. Yoel's the best. And silence when he did this, because all they are doing is are on the gravy train of Elon Musk. And they're they're almost worse, not worse, but almost worse as far as I'm concerned. It's gravy. I don't I don't. It feels like the trains come off the tracks.

I'm like, I just kind of think, why is he is he planning to run for president? Like, what is he doing? No, he can't. He's from South Africa. Let me say one thing. They've been trying to do this reporting on the Twitter files, which is really enliven

the right wing. And I'm not going to go into it because I think there's no news there. I don't, sorry. And I keep getting attacked. I was like, I'm sorry, this was all reported. And Nicole Perlroth talked about it,

like stuff that she'd reported. Mike Masnick, all the really smart tech people are like, this is nothing new. But they love to talk about shadow banning when it was filtering people who broke rules. It was just showing the filtering system. You know, they possibly could have been more transparent, I guess, but why? Other companies aren't. And so this idea that they have to say that there's all this nefarious things going on, it would be what I thought would be really nice is that real reporters got a hold of this stuff. Good investigative reporters would have been a fascinating look into how content moderation

is done. And what the real issue is, is that the idea of not giving people reach, right? Amplification. And lots of Twitter people are like, we're de-amplifying people. And there was no, never a secret. It just was a secret of which ones they did, right? And so they're calling it shadow banning, which sounds more scary, but it's all it is, is de-amplifying. And by the way, they made mistakes. FYI, guess what? So does most of Congress is freedom of speech, not freedom of reach. Negative hate tweets will be maxed, boosted, and demonetized, so no ads or other revenue to Twitter. You won't find a tweet unless you specifically seek it out, which is no different from the rest of the internet. So he was really reiterating the policy of Twitter, nothing fresh and new. But even the conversation, I think, creates this false banner of what they're obligated to do, creates this false banner of what they're obligated to do because they don't, I mean, that's like revealing the notes from a meeting at CNBC or at the Wall Street Journal and finding they were biased. Okay. And I mean, and I found they were very not, not biased, but really troubled

about what they were doing. Like they had a Thoughtful. They were trying to be thoughtful. And not only that, all the research, every academic paper done on social media platforms shows that it's almost like they're, I don't know, self-conscious about a liberal bias. And they are actually biased towards conservative voices. Yeah. They err on the side of conservative voices in terms of what gets reach and circulation and what they're less likely to take. Anyways, it's the whole thing, but we engage in this argument. It's like, we forget they can do whatever the fuck they want. I mean, they're a media company that's privately held. They don't even need to, they should have policies

because it's scaled. They should be able to say, this is why we did it, didn't. But some notion that it's a smoking gun, no, it's not even a squirt gun because every media company gets to make editorial decisions about what content makes the network and what doesn't. And these guys literally wring their hands and try to be thoughtful about it. I was shocked and kind of pleasantly surprised at how the level of resources and how thoughtful they try to be around this stuff. Yeah, I did too. Here's what I think is going on now. I have a new theory. Let's hear me out on this one theory. I think, I was thinking about it. Why is he doing this? Why is he doing every day? It's something tomorrow. It's like

today, yesterday, Fauci today will be what Biden's age? I don't know. Whatever enlivens this crowd with these Twitter files or this particular crowd is, I think he is buying, he's creating the next right-wing media organization. I think he thinks there's an opportunity with Fox being, you know, not going as far as he will. I think Newsmax and the other own are weak. You know what I mean? They're weak companies and don't have a lot of thing. And he's creating the next, if you think about it, if you think there's a couple of people in Silicon Valley that would like to own media, they've tried. Andreessen Horowitz has tried with Future. They want to

own media. David Sachs has talked about that. They want their own media, right? And that's why they brought in some of these, I'm going to use the term reporters very loosely for many of them. But I think they're doing that. They're of supplant others. It's so much calling out to the right and engaging with far-right personalities, talking about the woke mind virus, et cetera. It's just, it feels like performative in that regard. So I'm wondering if that's, he's trying to out, you know, speaking of another famous toxic immigrant, Rupert Murdoch, he's trying to out Murdoch Murdoch, which I don't know, just a-

But if he'd wanted to do that, what he should have done was buy Parler. He could have bought it for 45 million, not 45 billion. Yeah, but it doesn't, Twitter's bigger. Twitter's more important. Yeah, but it's going to, it's, the business is imploding. Kara, the way it's going, his creditors are going to own it. I mean, it's just. I don't think so.

I think he's going to buy the debt. I think I have this feeling. It won't be that easy. The people who own this, the people who own this debt aren't stupid. They're not going to let him come in and buy it on a discount. Yeah. I know some of the people that own this debt. They're not just going to come and go, oh, well, you've taken the revenue.

They'll be like, no, just continue paying our interest payments, please. Anyways, I do not see genius here. I do not see logic. I do not see some secondary objective that we are not privy to. Because, like I said, this is going to cost Tesla shareholders a third of a trillion dollars because he's alienating. If he wants to alienate progressives off of the Twitter platform and pulse and cement the conservative factions on Twitter, okay, you could sort of make an argument for that. Media's become polarized. Pick a lane. I want to be the new Fox.

Yeah. But he is so inextricably linked to not just that brand, but the Tesla brand. And Tesla owners are center left. And I think they're going to stop buying Teslas. For now, there's trucks.

There's things like that. I just, I don't know. I just was sitting there going, what is he, like, he's creating, the way he's doing it feels. I think you're falling into the camp of, oh, there must be something there. No, there's not, but it's just like, there's, you know, and by the way, there's more than the right, like, look,

he got, went on stage at Dave Chappelle's show in San Francisco. Did you see that? Got booed. And then, of course, they're pretending he didn't get booed, you know, like, oh, it's the leftist. Did you see the video? Yeah. Well, let me just read this so people don't know. He gets on stage at the end, and Chappelle invited him and said, make some noise for the richest man in the world, not for much longer. The boos got louder as Musk waved at the audience and raised both hands,

prompting Chappelle to quip that some of the people recently fired from Twitter may be in the audience. A negative reaction as Musk continued. Chappelle took a shot at his own audience, saying that all the people were booing had terrible seats. Then he joked about Musk's space travel and best things, saying, fuck Earth, I'm leaving anyway, I'm going to Mars. The segment ended with a callback from a segment from Chappelle's show and media made Musk shout, I'm rich, bitch, which was kind of weird. And then in the morning,

he tweeted, it's 90% Musk did, 90% cheers and 10% boos. But he heard a lot of boos. It's almost as I offended San Francisco's unhinged leftists. Unhinged leftists don't go to Jay Chappelle shows, FYI. But he's got allies like Chappelle and things like that. So I don't know. I just have this feel. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry. I thought it was really interesting because the thing I registered from it was he was genuinely shocked at how negative his response was.

Yeah. I just think these guys are totally out of touch. I don't think there's a grand strategy here. I think you're watching a man-child come undone. Yeah, that's what I called him. My pronouns are broken man-child. And that Chappelle thing was just, I mean, it was the definition of awkward. Yeah.

He kept waiting for the booze to stop. They didn't. Chappelle did his best to try and, you know, make light of it. Not embarrass him. And, and, uh, must've sat there like, oh my God, I can't believe they're booing me. And they wouldn't stop booing him. I thought the whole, the whole thing was, I mean, it kind of defined the term cringe. One that he thought that was a good idea. Right. And I can't, what was Dave Chappelle thinking? I don't know. I found the whole thing very weird.

I know. He's very hurt that people don't agree with him. Anyway, whatever. I happen to think Dave Chappelle's a great comic, but he really needs to stop being so butthurt about things. Oh, I shouldn't even use that expression. Anyway, Dave, calm down. You're very talented. Stop being an asshole. Anyway, let's listen to a listener mail. You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. This comes in via voicemail. Let's play it.

Hey, Scott and Kara. I'm Derek here in Santa Barbara. You know, could you stop talking about fucking Twitter? I'm sick of fucking Twitter. I don't give a shit about Twitter. You hung up about it. You talk about it all fucking day. Nobody uses Twitter.

It's a small percentage of the country that even uses a fucking thing. And it's a piece of shit. It's gone to hell anyway, from what I hear. Although I don't use it. So why should I give a shit? Nobody cares. Fuck Twitter. I'm going to stop listening to your show if that's all you fucking talk about.

Oh, God, Derek, we love you. Derek, you're our favorite fan. You're right. We shouldn't, but it is important. I'm sorry. This guy's got his hand on rocket ships, which this week is very important. Tesla's a very important car company. I'm sorry to give you that news.

Rockets particularly. There's all kinds of things going on this weekend that SpaceX is integral to. He's up in our grill in the Ukraine and everything else. So it does matter what he's evolving into. So that said, I get you. I love you. I feel you. Yeah, I feel him.

We do talk about this too much. We do. But it is a backdrop of one thing. Let me just tell you, Derek, I agree. But let me just say that this party was at, there was a lot of defense people, and they are concerned about the dependence on SpaceX very much so in terms of our government and his in a much more significant way. And I hadn't thought about that. But you're right. We love you, Derek. We love you. We agree with you. We hate ourselves. And we're going to address this on Thursday in a listener mail episode. You're fucking great, Derek, as you like to say, but it's always nice

to hear from our fans. It is always. And we appreciate any feedback, even negative. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Well, my fails, we talked about it before. Here's some wins and fails. Well, my fail is what we talked about before. I think whenever you in any way intimate that you're grooming or involved in anything related to pedophilia, I think that's slander, full stop.

And I think that people should be just show more caution because nobody recovers from that. Your Wikipedia page will say so-and-so, the richest person on earth, insinuated that you did X in your thesis, and it was later proven that there was no connection. But the bottom line is, it's in your Wikipedia profile. And that's just not, I don't know, the whole point of being an adult and living in a modern society is there are just certain lines. And how do you know where the line is? You decide there is- Let's save the pedophilia accusations for actual pedophiles. How about that? There you go. And everyone says, well, where is the line? Well, the first step in knowing where the line is, is to decide there is a line. And this is a line. There is some decorum. Anyways, that's my fail. My win is Team Morocco and Croatia. This Luka Modric, who I think is arguably, he's not underrated, but he is one of the most iconic players in the history of the game.

He's an incredible playmaker. And I saw Croatia lose to France in the final four years ago. I was so inspired by the fans the last time. I'm super excited to watch them play. And I really hope, I really hope Morocco, I'd love to see Morocco beat France. Kylian Mbappe is the best player arguably in history right now. But I'm very excited about watching 200 dogs play on this global stage. I may watch from my hospital bed. I may.

When is the game? When is the game? When is the game? Tuesday and Wednesday night. Tuesday night. Oh, no, I'm not in the hospital yet. Yeah, Tuesday night. We can still watch if you're not in the hospital.

No, no. If I was in bed and we had nothing to do, I would do it. But no, I think not. Sorry. You tell me. You'll tell me. I'm so glad you're there.

You're having a good time with your sons. My fail is, I think, the similar thing as you is just really stop it. Like, stop it. It's really, this is real lives that are being affected. And I, again, with the marriage thing happening, I'm very pleased it's being signed. The danger is real. And it's not being a whiny liberal or, you know, unhinged leftist. Fuck you.

Like, we have families that have suffered because of this, and there's no reason for it. There's no reason for this. We've moved on. Most of America has moved on. And by the way, most America supports things like gay marriage. And to take these kind of shots and call people names like this is sick. It's actually sick. It's really weird and sad. And I'm so sorry for people who feel the need to do this. I'm so sorry you had such a bad childhood that you need to hit back all the time. But it's depressing. And for the win, my family, I really appreciate it. And let me just say, especially my mom, I have a real troubled relationship with my mom. We've had a hard many years for lots of

reasons, but she really came through this weekend and threw me a beautiful brunch, and I really appreciated Lucky. Lucky. And she gave me a beautiful speech. She looked great. She had a red dress on. Poochie, poochie. I don't know. She looked fantastic.

You know, she's had some health issues, but she really looked great, and she gave a great speech. And instead of calling me difficult, as she does in every speech that she ever does at any of my birthdays, she called me determined, which it was a real plus, Mom. I really appreciate it. You graduated. I know. I graduated to determined, which is a version of difficult, but that's okay. I really love you, Mom, and I appreciate what you did. That was really nice. That's nice, Cara. That is nice. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Scott, that's

the show. We'll be back on Friday to answer listener questions about social media etiquette, what to do with a billion dollars and more. We'll also have special end of year episodes during the rest of the month. And so keep coming back to Pivot. And then we'll be back in January, including with a European tour that Scott and I are taking. That's right. A grand tour of Europe, the two of us,

because we are the, you know, the divorced couple that we are. We like to travel together. And Scott, have a beautiful time there. Have a beautiful new year. And I'm sure we'll be talking into the new year, but I appreciate you most of all.

I appreciate you. All right. Today's show was produced by Larry Naiman, Evan I appreciate you most of all. I appreciate you. All right. Today's show was produced by Larry Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jatot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mille Silberio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

You can take the America out of the dog, but you can't take the dog out of America. Hello, Bud Zero.