Pivot - Tim Walz, X vs. Advertisers, and Global Markets Bounce Back

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

Noel King joins Kara as co-host to discuss the latest global market moves, NASA needing help from SpaceX, and whether empathy punishments work. Then, Tim Walz joins the Democratic ticket, how will the GOP campaign against him ? Plus, X has filed a federal antitrust suit against advertisers. Then, Noel and Kara make predictions on who will play Tim Walz on SNL, and what celebs the invigorated Democratic National Convention will attract. Listen to Today Explained here. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Details at Fizz.ca. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. We have a mostly scot-free August this month. He'll be around for the Democratic National Convention. But here to help us out in the co-host chair today is Noelle King, who hosts Fox Daily News Podcast Today Explained. I don't know where Scott is. Welcome, Noelle. Scott is in Aspen. It's so good to be here. Anyway, I'm thrilled to have you

here. I've wanted to have you on a lot. Just tell me, what's going on at Today Explained? What's happening over there? We're getting ready to go to the DNC. I understand you will also be there. Yes, I'm dragging Scott around. You're going to be inside the convention center, right? Yes, I am. Yes. Okay, we did not get our act together in time. So we will be running around the streets, but it just means we got all our angles covered.

Yeah, we're also going to do, I'm going to make Scott do a series of ridiculous things. I may take him up to Wiener Circle, things like that. You know, and we're going to tape stuff. Good, good. He's going to love it. Yeah, it's going to be good. And we're going to do a live podcast from CNN's Grill, actually, the Grill. Nice. Yeah, so it should be really fun. It seems exciting. It's going to be, we're going to talk a lot about the dance in a minute and where it's going, but it seems like it's going to be fun, correct? I mean, it wasn't going to be fun. I mean, that's the thing.

It was sort of like, okay, look, it's a big news event. We should go. And then everything changed, and now all of a sudden everybody's really excited. Yeah. We were going to talk about a lot where it's going to go, but I was looking at some of the stuff this morning around the tour that Kamala Harris is on with Tim Walton. We'll talk about that specifically in a second.

around the tour that Kamala Harris is on with Tim Walton. We'll talk about that specifically in a second. But it seems like they're grabbing every single Trump thing from Trump, like the rallies, the visuals. Right. Even some of the like, I guess you could say some of the insults even, you know, they're milder, but they're real. Jokes about J.D. Vance and the couch. Like that's not something that Biden would have done.

And, yeah, they're really going for it. They're going for it. Anyway, we've got a lot to talk about today. And it's mostly going to be politics, but also a bunch of other things. There's a lot going on in business and everything else. Elon Musk is up to hijinks, as always. And I don't expect to be an expert. It's just shitty.

That's all he's doing. More shitty things from Elon Musk. So we're going to talk about Governor Tim Walz, who was selected this week, and the campaign trail with Big Dad Energy. That's how they're putting it. I think it's probably accurate. because he keeps putting up fake things on his own feed, including just now he put up, just he's causing riots essentially now. But let's talk about global markets evening out after tumbling over fears of a recession. You know, Scott had said this to calm down. It's just a temporary thing. And at the time of the taping, the Dow and the S&P are up 1% after new labor market data eases fears. There was fears over employment and everything else. The Nikkei 225 index rose 10.2% one day after having its worst drop since 1987. It was just a weird little freakout. And then it's back, essentially, which is what Scott said was going to happen.

Yeah, I was with Scott on this one. So I covered economics for years, and I did a show where we had to do the numbers. This is Marketplace, right? And it's, of course, you have to say do the numbers too, correct? You have to say do the numbers and there's music. Can you do that? Can you just say it like Kai Rizzo? Let's do the numbers. Good. Okay. Thank you. Oh God. What if Kai is listening? Kai, forgive me. I love you. He does listen. Right. Okay. Hey, Kai. But the thing you see when you do that job and, you, and this has stayed with me 10 years later, is the markets do go up and down. They go up and down. I keep CNBC up on my computer all day.

I look at it once an hour. I like to watch it, right? Because it reminds me that they go up and down. And they had gone so far up that there was, in fact, a long way to fall. But this week has looked like stabilization, right? Yep. We haven't clawed back all the gains, but we're stabilizing. We got good jobless claims numbers. And as expected, the markets tick back up. Yeah. So what do you think it was about? Just was this little, you know, my grandfather wasn't much into the stock market, which also Tim Waltz is in it, apparently. We'll talk about that in a minute. But one of the things he said, I said, I was like, how do you know what to invest? And he said, well, it goes up and it goes down.

Right? That was his entire piece of advice. Was he alive during the Depression? He was, yeah. Okay. And he still wrapped his head around it, goes up. Because you hear stories about people who are alive during the Depression, they can't get near the markets, right? They're permanently shattered.

during the Depression, they can't get near the markets, right? They're permanently shattered. And then, you know, I was a youngish person during the great financial crisis, the big crash, 2007, 2008. I don't know. It always eventually goes back up. And it's going to this time as well. But, you know, people like to use the word recession. People like a little bit of panic. Well, that's what Donald Trump would like. He jumped on it. He called it the Kamala crash. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, people vote on the economy. For all of the stuff that we talk about, like the dad vibe and the weird and like J.D. Vance on the couch, people vote on the economy, right? Do I have a job? Is my financial future, does it feel secure? Can I afford eggs when I go to the grocery store? This, at the end of the day, is what people vote on. Although the stock market is not owned. Another

point that Scott makes all the time is stock market doesn't reflect reality because most people aren't in the stock market. It's mostly rich people, essentially. Totally true. And that's why the Fed, you know, to their credit, doesn't come out and say, okay, the stock market's crashed. We're going to lower interest rates. They're like, stock market, not the economy. We're going to wait, I think, until September, expecting a little rate cut. And maybe now people are saying maybe a bigger rate cut than we did expect. But- Yeah, Scott was saying not to do a rate cut now because it looks panicky. That's the thing. You do not want to panic people. Yeah, exactly. We're going to have a tiny little happy Elon Musk story before we get to all the

bad ones because there's so many. But NASA is considering tapping SpaceX to help get two astronauts back to Earth. The two originally planned to be in space for eight days when they headed to the International Space Station in early June. And they're still there because of technical difficulties with Boeing, actually, I believe it is. NASA said it's now considering using SpaceX help to get the crew down in February. And NASA said it's now considering using SpaceX help to get the crew down in February. You know, it really does show how vulnerable we are to just a few companies. Like, if one doesn't work, we have to rely on the other.

And obviously, SpaceX has been more reliable than other agencies. Boeing said it can get them down safely. I guess NASA doesn't think so. So they may tap SpaceX, which has been way far ahead of other companies in this area. What would you do if you're stuck in space like this? I wouldn't take a Tesla back. Take a Xanax and have that be the end of it. I would stay there, I guess.

I don't know. Maybe there's some physical reason. Like you're not a claustrophobe or a panicker? I would never go to space. Okay, fair. I mean, I'm one of those people. Everyone's like, can't you wait to go to theicker? I would never go to space. Okay, fair. I mean, I'm one of those people. Everyone's like, can't you wait to go to the moon? I'm like, I can wait, like, forever, like, until I'm dead. My whole life.

I don't, do you have, I mean, there's got to be, at some point, going to the moon will be like going to, like, California or whatever. Now, Elon said to me when he did an interview, he goes, I want to die on Mars, just not on landing, which was cute. That's when he was funny. That's when he was actually funny. That was funny. And good luck with that. I mean, like, it's possible. You could imagine it. Yeah, good luck. Anyway, you sent us a new feature in Grub Street, by the way, a few years back, a woman in Parma, Ohio, I guess, Parma, Ohio, it's like Pam, Ohio, okay, got frustrated that Chipotle had taken too long to make her order. I remember this story.

She threw a burrito bowl at a young woman behind the counter, and the judge sent her to work at the fast food place instead of going to prison for 90 days. I'd love you to chat about it. Let me give you a stat from the article. So 46 cases that result in unusual punishments like Haynes's, this is this woman's name, showed that half of said offenders ended up back in court compared to a local average of 27%. So maybe they got madder or something. Tell us about this story. Yeah, I read this twice. I cried both times. I don't know why.

Maybe I'm going through something. But for whatever reason, I... All right, so the woman goes in she's furious she does a really stupid thing right what was she mad about was there not enough rice what that was part of it though she had been waiting for like 20 minutes she decided to just order on the app so she could get her food faster so she orders on the app and then her food still doesn't come and she sees other people who've ordered on the app going in front of her and she marches up to the counter it's like give me my burrito bowl with chicken rice sour cream this is important and cheese so it's kind of a bland burrito bowl right

so they make the bowl the young woman gives her the bowl and she says no this sucks I don't want this make it again so they make it again and upon what sucked about well that's the i mean the author of this really tries to dive into what was wrong with it and they're like there wasn't much color in there but she hadn't ordered any ingredients other than like bland gray and white ingredients and so like there's a picture of it and it does look and i stopped this is a white woman right this is unfortunately okay um this is unfortunately a white woman i don't This is, unfortunately, yes. This is, unfortunately, a white woman. I don't see any other kind of woman doing this, but go ahead. So, the burrito bowl doesn't look nice in a picture, but it was, in fact, what the woman had ordered. But frustrating, you know, by the events

of the day, she went and she was like yelling, screaming, this is online, people can Google it, and she just threw the burrito bowl. Oh, so they took the video. Oh, yeah, there were people like looking back and forth. She throws the burrito bowl. Oh, so they took the video. Oh, yeah. There were people like looking back and forth. She throws the burrito bowl in this young woman's face, screams, and then she exits the Chipotle. And people are kind of standing in her way like, hey, you can't do that. That was so wrong. Her name is on the receipt, the woman who threw it. So, of course, the police do show up at her house.

And they tell her, this is fascinating. They're like, you should have not gone to this Chipotle. It's a mess. There's one in the other town. You should go there. Also, we have to arrest you. So she gets brought before the judge, and the judge is like, considering, do I sentence her to 90 days in prison, or do I stunt? And the judge decides that a better punishment is to sentence her to work in a fast food restaurant herself.

Which one? Chipotle? Well, that's the thing. He said, you can work wherever you want, but you have to apply. You have to get the job honestly. And she did. And when she applied at various places, she told them like, listen, there is a woman in a video assaulting a fast food worker. It is in fact me. I would like to work here. A judge says I have to. So she didn't apply at any Chipotles. She got turned down by seven or so places. And then a Burger King hired her. She ends up, this is kind of the part where I started tearing up,

she ends up doing such a good job that they're like, we would like you to stay. And she says, yes, I will stay. And then she stays. What did she do before this? Well, okay, so look, this is why I love this article. Parma is a working class town that is kind of hard up and everybody is struggling financially. And this woman who has, I think, three children, she's doing deliveries, like delivery driving with her husband. He drives the car. She delivers the packages. She's getting up

at three in the morning. She tells the reporter it's like a fucking marathon every day. There's a lot of couples that do that. And then on top of that, the kids. And then here's where I sympathize. The night that this all happened, one of her kids wanted Starbucks for dinner. One of her kids wanted Chipotle. One of her kids wanted or her husband wanted Wingstop. And her son wanted something else. It was like that. So this woman is stressed out enough.

And then the entire family is like, Mom, go and get our orders. Sorry, the camera can see that i just gave the finger but like no um this is where i appreciate being a childless pug lady but but so she's in she's in enormous under an enormous amount of stress and she's irritated and she does a thing that you should never do but also right you can conceive of yourself getting frustrated enough maybe right i have four kids now fair enough. I don't have any kids. I'm just assuming that like, they all wanted something. They all want something different all the time, but I don't give it to them. But okay, so she has a tough life. Go ahead. So she

she does a great job. She does a great job. She stays at the Burger King. She does end up spending two nights in prison. She gets out, she quits the Burger King. The flip side of this, oh, and the article kind of notes, she never really admits that she did anything wrong. She will say, I shouldn't have done that butt on the other hand. That's the famous butt. The famous butt. And then there's this young woman, 25 years old, who got hit with the burrito bowl. And her life has gotten, her life got pretty messy. She's all over the internet getting hit in the face with a bunch of sour cream. She says that she's kind of in shock. She's kind of traumatized. Chipotle tells her they're going to send a security guard. They're going to,

they were going to help her out with something, whether it was therapy or a little extra money. And then she tells the reporter that they never did that. This woman, by the way, this young woman had been like on an upward trajectory. She had started in other fast food. Chipotle paid more. She was on a management track. So she goes back to other fast food places, not making as much money. And then she kind of throws her hands up at the end of the day and gets a job, I believe, as a nurse's assistant in like a nursing home, like taking care of elderly people. And I don't know. Why did I cry? It's just a story about how hard it is to be alive these days, honestly. Also, it's about, like, look, these people are just struggling to make it, and they're attacking each other.

You know what I mean? Like, that's what it is. It's sort of like, it's like this idea that we're not people. It's about taking. It's about, I'm mad, and therefore, I will take it out on you and stuff like that. I try really hard because I have a real problem with road rage. Actually, my kids, they know my words now. Like I go, go, go, go, like all that. Like my kids think it's hysterical. They go, go. And I was saying things about people in the car and I stopped because they were repeating me. And I was like, oh, I really,

really need to, this is not that big a frigging deal. Nobody wants to have their worst shittiest moment put on the internet. Nobody. And then I think further, nobody wants the rest of the world to like draw a larger lesson from their worst shittiest moment. That really sucks. Yeah. And it's entertainment. It's entertainment for people. It's absolutely entertainment. Anyway, the story is written by Reeves, is it Weidemann? And just really, please read it. Please read it. It'll make you cry. Twice. It made Noel cry. Twice. Okay, let's get to our first big story. Vice President Kamala Harris and her newly announced running mate, Tim Walz, are on the battleground blitz visiting swing states around the country this week.

It seems very exciting. Walz was announced as VP candidate on Tuesday. A bit of a surprise. I think everyone thought Shapiro had it in the bag. And at his debut rally in Philadelphia, he opened up about his background, his vision for the future, and had some real zingers for his opponents. Let's listen to what he said about Donald Trump. And make no mistake, violent crime was up under Donald Trump. That's not even counting the crimes he committed. He also had a crack about J.D. Vance. Take a listen. And I got to tell you, I can't wait to debate the guy.

That is if he's willing to get off the couch and show up. You see what I did there? So, Noelle, do you believe he actually did that? I was a little surprised. I was surprised, too. We are being told to kind of look out for dad energy. Right, yeah. And big dad energy. Big dad energy, right.

I Googled big, anyway, don't Google Big Dad Energy. Okay. Why? What did you find? You have to say that. It's like daddy. No, I don't like that. I don't know what the daddy thing is, but it makes me uncomfortable.

Oh, it's porn. Porn. It goes right to porn. It's okay. Yeah. So, all right. So, we're told to look out for Big Dad Energy. The couch joke lands as kind of a dad joke, but also a real jab. Walls was a surprise.

I, you know, I'm not in the game of prediction, but I really did think it was going to be Shapiro. As did many. As did many. Walls seems to have broken out. I mean, this is the story. He broke out by going on TV and saying Donald Trump and J.D. Vance are weird people. And Kamala Harris apparently really likes this line of attack. And furthermore, apparently really likes Tim Walz. Yeah. Yeah, it seemed like a vibe thing more than anything, right? Because if she was doing the math, she probably would have picked Shapiro.

I had actually on the show said she's going to pick Walz, largely because she knows Shapiro appears to me like the guy that wants her job. Like, you know, I know it sounds dumb, but we've all worked with those people. And you think they're highly competent. He's very beloved in Pennsylvania. Let me tell you, I have Trumpy relatives, and they love Shapiro. They think he's doing a great job. I think they're very, you know, they're very into his total competence, right?

And that's what most people want, not necessarily. They don't dislike him because he's a Democrat kind of thing. They're very into his total competence, right? And that's what most people want, not necessarily. They don't dislike him because he's a Democrat kind of thing. But I thought he's kind of a frontrunner, not a vice president. That's my feeling. And I think she sensed that, right? Or perhaps not. Yes.

I don't know either one of them personally. But this man is hugely ambitious. And then there is sort of, I think for the Democrats, like the very real question of will people, will the progressive wing of the party go after him about Israel? And they had to have been thinking about that because they have had to be thinking about that, you know, since October. Sure. Protests. It's sort of been quieter. So they didn't want that to come back. Although he's been a critic of Netanyahu. I mean, I see why they would worry about that. When you think about this guy, so they didn't pick that guy. And I thought the lines of attack that the Republicans had, like, they don't like Jewish people, was ridiculous, because then Chuck Schumer was like, well, news to me. So it's kind of a silly line of attack. But they're trying everything, right? But they're trying everything, right?

Let's talk about what they're doing with this guy. Now, I didn't think he would do that joke, and I suspect he's never doing it again. I think the count that he just gets one, which I think is probably okay. I do kind of like that they don't. You know, there was the Michelle Obama, when they go low, we go high. It's like when they go low, we go lower. Yes, yes. We've decided lower is working for us. But it was interesting because I watched her face after when he was doing it,

and she barely cracked a smile. She was trying to be like, oh, did you do that? But she knew he was going to do it. It's a cheap shot. I mean, listen, the J.D. Vance couch thing, I would not wish on my worst enemy, and it did not happen. It did not happen. It is embarrassing for him because it won't go away.

Because he's creepy. He's got a creepy vibe, but go ahead. I'm obsessed with him. I am frankly obsessed with him, yeah. Yeah, we'll talk about him in a second. But are these things on Walt's hand? They're trying now the military, which is bizarre. They're trying to say that he didn't go, didn't ship out and decided to run instead. They found some people who are critical of that who were in his unit. They're trying that. It's really hard because he doesn't have stocks. He doesn't have like China. They're trying China.

Is there, do you see anything that's problematic? You know, the military thing is interesting because it is one of Donald Trump's campaign advisors, Chris LaCivita, who was present and in fact, I think orchestrated Swift Boat against John Kerry. So are they trying to Swift Boat Tim Walz and will it work is worth asking. I don't actually know. They're pointing to him saying at one point in a speech, something along the lines of, it's an anti-gun speech or like a pro-gun control speech. And it's something along the lines of the weapons of war that I carried in war, weapons that I carried in war. And they're saying, well, the guy never went to war.

Right. But he served. He shot guns. Exactly. He served for a very long time, 24 years, I think. If people are looking for a bad faith argument against anyone, then that's a decent, if you're like, I don't want to like that guy, give me a reason to not like him. Okay, I could see that working on some people. I did note today that the Times quoted some men who served with him who were like, this is nonsense. We should stop. We should just like stop. People who serve should just stop attacking each other generally. And then one guy that quoted, I like this, was like, I'm a friend of his. This is ridiculous and we should stop it. He served honorably. Also, I don't like his politics

and I'm going to vote for Trump. And I thought that that was cool. It's like, okay, we contain multitudes. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I think J.D. Vance is the wrong person. I mean, he did serve, but he was in PR, right? Like it wasn't like, you know, it just is like it opened. And then Captain Bonespurs is the real problem. Yeah, it just is a very strange, it is a very strange thing. J.D. Vance is, he served honorably, but he's not a war hero. So, I don't know. It's a strange thing.

I don't think they've got much on this guy. That's the thing. They don't got much. He doesn't have money. He doesn't have, you know, there's not corruption to go for. Interesting, the journal did a compare between Vance and him. And Vance owns crypto. He's a multimillionaire. He owns a number of homes.

And this guy doesn't own a home. He's got a pension and not very much of anything. You know what I mean? It's a man of the people. My editor pointed out yesterday when the story dropped that he doesn't own any stocks. And we're like, how is he going to retire? I mean, this is something I love thinking about retirement. And I'm like freaking out for him. And then of course, someone points out, well, he will have a pension. Totally fair. But like, my mom has a pension. I

don't know. There's just something like he'll write a book. Now he'll be rich. You know, he'll write a book. Yes. He'll be rich. He'll write books. But if you're looking for that kind of like, he's a normal guy. I mean, again, it depends on how you conceive of normal. I'm the generation that will not have a pension that like looks at my mom's generation. It's like, damn, you guys really like you guys really nailed that one. There is something normal about this man having a pension. He's very likable. There's a whole memes going on online about like, you know, around the Jewish thing.

They're like, he may not be Jewish, but he would come to your home, find the Afikoman, and then hide it again so the kids can find, like, they're all these, like, isn't he a nice guy kind of things. All over, like, he'd come and fix your, you know, fix your house. If you had a coffee, put Vicks Vaporub on you. You know, this guy would mow your lawn if you broke your leg, he'd mow your lawn, and J.D. Vance would turn you into the HOA for having an un-thing lawn. You know, that kind of thing. They're trying to do the—and I think the comparison is bad for Vance because Vance seems creepy. Have you met him?

Yes, I knew him when he was in tech. Will you tell me everything? Just share. Please share. I will. We'll get to him in a minute. But just so you know, the Harris campaign announced that he had raised $36 million in 24 hours since Wallace became vice presidential candidate. So the people like him.

I think people don't know about him. That's the strength. And then who's going to define him? I suspect he's going to define himself because he's so valuable. He's so interesting. He's so funny. You know, he's got, you know, the whole thing, I'm a liberal. Okay, I want to give kids lunch.

Call me a monster. Like he takes those things and turns them around really effectively. He really owns it proudly. Yeah. One of the things, he won't be able to deliver a state like Josh Shapiro or Mark Kelly or Roy Cooper might have done, but there's a possibility of shoring up this blue wall state, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania. One of the things that's interesting, he reminds me of a male Gretchen Whitmer, right? Like they're the same. There's the same kind of people. So we'll see. But he's the

one, again, that did this whole weird messaging going for Democrats. There's some of the social media posts, as I mentioned. I know Tim Walz could teach me how to drive stick shift without making me cry once. Tim Walz is outside cleaning my grill. Tim Walz is a dad the entire generation wish they had instead of the one they lost to Fox News. I like that one because my mother is like that. That is deep. Yeah, it is. I actually, I saw some of, I think I saw the one, it was on TikTok and the woman looked like she was going to cry. And I lost my father to heart disease, not Fox News, but like there is that, there is that like, oh, daddy kind of thing. And it seems that other women who did lose their dads to Fox News, I didn't think about that as a cohort of people,

but it seems to be a cohort of people. Yeah. Oh yeah. Welcome. It's me. I have a mother who is a Fox News aficionado who is really toxic. I don't know what else to say. It's in lost, feels lost and stuff like that. Do you guys have it out or do you just, it's better not to talk about it? Not anymore. It's just like all of us are just, we just let her go on. You know, it's just, it's literally like a cult member. I don't know what else to say. I've written stories about it. It's just pointless. It's pointless. She's 90. So whatever. Good luck on your journey to wherever you're going, that kind of thing. It's sad to say that, but it's true. Republicans, again, are attacking Waltz as left and radical. And again, we're going to get to J.D. Pence in a second.

But he was getting criticized for how he handled the 2020 protests in Minneapolis after the death of George Floyd. Now, of course, there's, of course, audio of Trump praising how he handled them. You were in Minneapolis in 2020 covering those protests. What is your sense? And again, Trump praised him for how he handled things. I think there's a fair bit of revisionism going on here. But I did a deep dive on this last night because I was genuinely curious. I landed in Minneapolis the day the National Guard came in. So I was running around the city

talking to shop owners who'd been boarded up, people who'd been burned out, people who were scared. And what I remember, I went through my memory, I said, did anybody talk about the governor and not having the National Guard there? And here's what my memory is telling me. My memory is telling me the people I was interviewing on the ground were more concerned that the presence of the authorities, the National Guard, would further inflame the situation and that it would be better if things were allowed to just kind of naturally die down. Now, again, this is business owners. This is business owners. Right. And this is also people, vigils for George Floyd, people who were genuinely angry. But again, my memory of that time, and I went and I listened back to my stories, people were just so angry with Derek Chauvin. They were so angry about that video. They were so angry at that point, at that moment, very broadly with the Minneapolis Police Department, because a lot of people had a story. A lot of people had a story of one time I was driving and they X, Y, and Z. So I didn't hear

anything about the governor. What I do remember, though, is I do remember the mayor, this young guy, Jacob Fry, kind of being held out, like, does he know what the heck he's doing? And over the ensuing weeks and months, he really pushed back and says, I did know what I was doing. I asked for the National Guard and the governor didn't send them. And now the debate is, it seems like there is, there are some emails, the Minneapolis Tribune, Star Tribune has some emails where Fry does ask for the National Guard. Walls does not immediately send them in saying the mayor needs a plan. If you're going to send in the guard, you've got to have a plan for where you're going to post them. Seems reasonable, right?

Seems reasonable. Again, you know, if you're the mayor and you're thinking the National Guard is the thing that's going to get us out of this, you are ticked off. And lo, these many years later, you're probably still thinking about it. So I will tell you what I think, though. Having to revisit those stories made me think about something really hard. Nobody wants to go back to that. Nobody. Not a single American. And going after walls by reminding us of what happened in Minneapolis is, it's a choice. It's a strategy. It also reminds me who was the commander in chief at the time, who was tweeting when the looting starts, the shooting starts, who was, you know, it was such a crazy time. And everybody in a position of authority is in some ways, I really truly believe, compromised by the absolute craziness of the time. The person who was president was Donald Trump. You have to think that'll come up. I don't know. Yeah, I think what's interesting is that they, he wants to go backwards, this idea of going backwards. Donald Trump keeps wanting to do

this. And I suspect his staff does not want him to do this, go backwards, because he's doing a backwards facing. And I think one of the things that's Kamala Harris is strong we don't we don't want to go back like there's two there's two lines that they're using both walls and her is mind your own damn business and we don't want to go back and so I think you're right I think there's probably like oh god everybody made a fucking mistake then right that kind of thing whether it's COVID or everything. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I try to put myself in the minds of people I know who are voting for Donald Trump. I try really hard all the time because I want to be fair about everything. And I think, do they want to go back? Like, I, again, I don't remember anybody liking that time. That summer and what followed was crazy-making.

Right, exactly. But thinking of going forward, Project 2025 is still making news. The publication of the book written by the president of the group behind Project 2025, featuring a forward by J.D. Vance, has been delayed until after the elections, as if we didn't notice. Though Donald Trump continues to disavow any connection to the ripening blueprint, his daughter-in-law and RNC chair, Lara Trump, said that anyone who pushes Project 2025 knows it's a hoax. Of course, he was on a plane with the head of Project 2025. You dug into Project 2025 on Today Explained this week. Talk about what you found out. And Trump is also pushing a kind of wacky theory on true social that Biden will crash the DNC convention and take back nomination. Here's your time to talk about J.D. Vance and his creepitude, etc.

Creepitude or compellingness. No, I'm going to get myself in so much trouble. So we've done two episodes about Project 2025. The first one was like, what is this thing? What's in it? Conservative blueprint, a lot of ideas for bringing the country into a different place, a lot of ideas for bringing the country into a different place, Gilead, but like a lot of just conservative policy ideas. And then the second part of it is a kind of database from which the Trump administration can hire people who will be loyal to the Trump administration. The news this week is that the man who was the director of Project 2025, Paul Danz, is stepping down, leaving his job. And so this led to a lot of questions about does this mean Project 2025 is dead? Donald Trump has disavowed this thing. Paul Danz is out of a job. He's saying

for completely normal reasons, I'm stepping aside, the time has come. Does it mean that Project 2025 is over? The answer we got from Shelby Talcott, a great reporter at Semaphore, was probably not, and here's why. Project 2025 is 900 pages of policy ideas. It exists. Paul Dance can go away, and that book still exists. The question is, is Donald Trump going to use that book? We'll call it something else. Right. That's the thing. That's Project 2025. It sounds like a science fiction movie. I mean, you read it. It is a science fiction movie, but tracking women's fertility every month. My God. I can't even do that.

How are they going to do that? But so, I don't know. It's the policy ideas exist. Donald Trump may use them or he may not use them. But I think the problem is, and, you know, I say this delicately. Donald Trump has a them or he may not use them. But I think the problem is, and you know, I say this delicately, Donald Trump has a history of not telling the truth. So he disavows this thing. Does that mean he's really disavowed it? Why should a rational person believe that? Right. I don't believe him. I think he's lying. I think they're all lying. I mean, of course,

they're keeping pictures of him on planes with them saying it's great. J.D. Vance is doing the forward. Get into Vance because Vance is much more linked with these people. Trump, I don't even think knows, right? I'm being fair here to Trump. I think he just doesn't know stuff, although I think he'd happy to do whatever works, right? He'll shift and do whatever is best. And, yeah, I think Heritage knows that he doesn't really know. They're like, the first time around he was disorganized. Left to his own devices, he'll be disorganized again.

Let's organize it for him, right? But Vance is quite involved with these people. J.D. Vance seems to me to be a true believer in this idea that progress, such as liberals conceive of it, has gotten America nowhere except a bunch of childless women with cats and whatnot. Yeah, this is Peter Thiel's influence. Yeah, well, Cara, I've been obsessed with these new right guys for a couple of years now. We covered them in the summer of 2022, and I remember airing those stories.

And I remember people saying, oh yeah, but I have a friend at the time. He's a big Trump guy, big MAGA guy. And I sent him these stories and I said, this is what makes me uncomfortable, right, about the Republican Party right now. This is two summers ago. And he wrote back and he said, but that's not what Donald Trump wants. And those guys will never get near power.

And when Blake Masters, who was a member of this cohort, lost in Arizona, he wrote to me. He said, look, these guys lose. Then comes J.D. Vance, one heartbeat away from the presidency. And I believe that J.D. Vance, one heartbeat away from the presidency. And I believe that J.D. Vance is a true new right believer. Progress has gotten us nowhere. The country is in decline. Everything is crap. We need strong families. Strong white, heterosexual families. But that's the thing. If you could just be inclusive, if you could just say we need strong families, period. It doesn't really matter what they look like. Right.

There's an argument. I mean, I don't have children, but if you say. I do. I think I believe in strong families. I don't believe it for everybody. It's just what that's the issue is the idea of. And I do. This is why I think Conley Harris talking about mind your own damn business is what is the government doing in our business?

Like that kind of thing. Yes. Yes. And what is the government doing in our business is like that kind of thing. Yes, yes. And what is the government doing in our business is supposed to be the Republican Party. That is supposed to be what we expect from them. And now the shift is that Project 2025, page 588, I read it myself, is talking about tracking women's monthly fertility. That's a J.D. Matz thing. Are you serious? How does anyone put their name to something like this? But I don't know. I guess there's just, I have a, J.D. Vance's vision of decline, of America in decline, is somewhat compelling to me because I spend a lot of time on the road doing stories. I've spent a lot of time on the road in the last decade doing stories about places that are really badly in decline.

decade doing stories about places that are really badly in decline. That's just it. And I can see how, if you say it has not worked, like neoliberalism, a word I love, has not worked. Free markets have not worked. Reagan, Clinton, NAFTA screwed us all. We need to get it back. I truly do find that compelling. And I think J.D. Vance and the Republicans articulate it well. Sure. Yeah, I think the only thing is it didn't work then either for most people. It just worked for a small group. It wasn't as if that was the answer either because it left out enormous amounts of people and stuff. And I do think there is a power.

You know, you either have Obama's hope or you have Donald Trump's American carnage. They both work. Anyway, what is the creepiest thing you find about J.D. Vance to end? Following her around with the plane? I want a J.D. Vance quota day calendar. I think the most interesting thing about J.D. Vance was this series of emails that he exchanged with a classmate at Yale. And in one of those emails, he said, I hate the police. And I thought to myself, I don't know why anyone with any thoughts of the future would put that in writing. I just don't understand that. Because he probably thought it. You know, I've been at events with him and at one dinner, I thought, oh my God, I wouldn't say that. I'm a liberal,

but that's too liberal. I literally thought that's too liberal. It wasn't quite America's Hitler, which is what he called a thing, but I was like, well, that's really dark and too, I remember thinking he's too liberal. It's just not thought through. It is this sweeping statement that just does not reflect well on him. It was apocalyptic, but in a very liberal way. Like, you know, when you get very anything, you come around to the other side. You have the same kind of things. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about X's lawsuit against advertisers and take a listener mail question about the future of the TikTok ban.

Remember that? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion. It's mind-blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of scam centers all around the world. These are very savvy business people. These are organized criminal rings. And so once we understand the magnitude of this problem, we can protect people better. One challenge that fraud fighters like Ian face is that scam victims sometimes feel too ashamed to discuss what happened to them. But Ian says one of our best defenses is simple. We need to talk to each other. We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive?

Even my own father fell victim to a, thank goodness, a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim and we have these conversations all the time. So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other. Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. All right, Cara, we're back with our second big story. So we're talking about one of your favorite people and his latest lawsuit. X filed a federal antitrust lawsuit against the World Federation of Advertisers. So that group has a brand safety initiative. And this lawsuit alleges that the brand safety initiative and big companies that are members,

CVS, Unilever, big guys here, conspired to illegally boycott X and deprive it of millions of dollars. Now, remind us, Cara, for those of us who have forgotten, why did advertisers flee X? Well, it's easy. He told them not to advertise on his site. He told them to go fuck themselves. He told them he's going to let, you know, he's creating this lovely Nazi porn bar, as I like to call it. It's an astonishing lawsuit. And, of course, it was introduced by, you know, if you want to continue with Nazis, the Eva Braun of this situation, Linda Iaccarino, who just did this weird hostage-like video where she's such a scold as a person. The idea is that advertisers are plotting against them. They're conspiracy-minded people.

And she has a situation where she's the purported, I call her CEO and name only, Sino. She thinks that people have to advertise on their site even if they don't like what they're doing on their site. And it's so anti-capitalist. It's so ridiculous. This whole case, this guy went out of his way to tell advertisers to go fuck themselves a number, not just once, but a dozen times, essentially. And now he doesn't like what he's reaping, which is that he took away safety. He took away, he replatformed all these terrible people. And then, of course, he's doing it in the name of free speech. But then he cuts the speech of people he doesn't like. By the way, he's apparently suppressing Kamala Harris' stuff right now on the site. He closed down the dudes for Kamala Harris for a second.

if advertisers don't want to advertise on your shitty platform, they shouldn't be made to. And even if they get together and say, isn't it a shitty platform? It doesn't mean it's illegal. It's just, God, this is a shitty platform. And Linda Yakirina, who worked for NBC, would have understood this rather easily. I don't want to advertise where it's unsafe, where I'm going to suddenly be next to Andrew Tate or whoever it happens to be. It's just, this is just fucking nonsense. It's just, this is just fucking nonsense. It's just, he posted also, of course, because he's such a conspiracy-minded person, we tried peace for two years, now it's war.

Well, if that was peace, I can't wait for the war because... What is this reference? I'm actually really curious about this. Has he done outreach to advertisers? Like, what is... You know, every time he does it, he shows up like this was, you know, at this deal book summit last year, he told advertisers to fuck off, including specifically Disney, specifically Bob Iger. You know, he essentially said, fuck you, Bob.

And I don't know why they would advertise. It's like, it's not illegal not to advertise, especially after you've made it a joke that you want to do this. And a former FTC policy director told me on the lawsuit it's a hideous joke and Elon is engaging in a fantasy world of antitrust. You know, we just had a really important antitrust decision around Google, but this isn't antitrust in any way. But what do you, so very curious about this. Let's get inside his head for a second. It doesn't seem like antitrust. It is still a lawsuit.

Does he think, does Elon think there is an antitrust wave to be ridden here that perhaps a judge will find this sympathetic? What is he trying to do when it seems? They have, they have court shopped, right? They're putting it in this court where this other lawsuit is going on against, I think it's Media Matters, where they, they just were reporting that it's more unsafe than ever on Twitter, which anyone who uses it, I don't use it anymore because it's unsafe.

And so, you know, he has another lawsuit where this judge has been ruling a little bit in his favor, allowing discovery to happen before it's even determined it's a case, which is expensive to Media Matters, would probably put it out of business. He sued OpenAI, and then he unsued them, and now he's suing them again. He sued another group, Roberta Kaplan, actually, who did the Eugene Carroll case, was dismissed.

You know, this is his love language, his lawsuits, right? Like, is he winning anything tangible? No. No, but this judge is predisposed toward him. They judge shopped, essentially, where they're putting this thing. And so he's just, it doesn't matter. Like, this is a tactic that Peter Thiel uses. Like, let's just sue them. And so they, you know, it's expensive. It's ridiculous. Maybe they'll give in. Guess who does this? Donald Trump. Let's not pay them. Let them sue us, and then maybe we'll pay less.

And I think this is his tactic. And, you know, one of the things that's important here is years ago when someone was talking about a lawsuit, and I called them, and they said they think they're going to shame you. And the guy goes, well, I'm shameless, so that's going to be a problem. And this guy is shameless. That's all. that's going to be a problem. And this guy is shameless. That's all. You know, he's, they've been trying to do this idea around with representatives like Jim Jordan, around advertising that these, that they're anti-conservative bias. And again, this, this,

this, this is a Texas judge, I think it is, who's doing this. So that's what they're trying to do is, is, is judge shop and put it in a place where at least it doesn't go away. So that's where it is. Can we just briefly, you know, Lindy Iaccarino, you've met her. Oh, yeah. I've spent a lot of time with her. I have hundreds, dozens of emails from her. She used to bring me to NBC events to moderate stuff. Did she? Yes.

The video in which Lindy Iaccarino announces this lawsuit is deeply strange, right? She's wall-eyed. She looks nervous. She's using big expressive hand gestures. Are we to, what are we to make of this? Why does she look, if she's fully on board, maybe she's not, why does it look like a hostage video? Like what's going on? She's a CEO. Look, she's just a terrible, she's a terrible, terrible communicator.

She was head of advertising at NBC, but they didn't want to make her CEO at NBC. There was, she thought she should be, when one of the, you know, one of the various sundry people left, she thought she should be CEO. They had no interest in her CEO. And then she went out and tried to get this job at Twitter, which I actually broke the news of, which is interesting. to get this job at Twitter, which I actually broke the news of, which is interesting. But, you know, she styles herself as a CEO, and I guess she took CEO classes and decided tough lady thing. You know, it's just pathetic because there's so few women CEOs. She's so bad at it. It's embarrassing. This is what I wrote on threads. The truth is, Linda is a tiresome scold of an executive with an alleged rep for yelling

at minions, according to numerous sources. That's what a lot of people tell me. She certainly threw a loud fit at one of my events, and I talked about that. But I call her an epic corporate laughingstock and a vaguely depressing lackey. I think she's all in for Elon. She's a conservative, which is great, but she's one of those conservatives, right? Like, cannot entertain anybody that thinks he's a jerk, right, or anything like that. And so she's unrealistic and ambitious and, you know, and so she goes along with him. She's closed the San Francisco office.

She lost, you know, a number of people who worked for her a long time and left or have been fired by her. And she's all in with Elon. So she's not a hostage in any way. I was teasing when I said it looks like a hostage video. It's not. But it does. I mean, like, yes, you were joking. You know her. To me, somebody who doesn't know her, it actually does. Yeah, it does look like that. I hope someday, you know, I can't say I liked her a lot because she's sort of this tough ad lady. I call her an ad lady from Queens Queens which annoys her which I think I'll do again I suspect 10 years from now she'll call me and say

that was so bad I'm so sorry you know maybe but maybe not I think she really believes in this guy you know and she's getting a bill of goods and this is her big moment she's hoping to get paid a lot I'll tell you something it's going to end up the same place everyone who works for him ends up,

which is in a lawsuit with them, right, or some fight. Did you see what Elon is doing in the UK? That's dangerous. That's actually dangerous. He's also doing it here with a lot of, like, he has PACs here that are doing things that are being investigated. No, he's got his little fingers in everything, including saving people at the space station.

This guy is a dangerous character. And what he's doing in Britain, where he's been criticizing the prime minister, the new prime minister, following this terrible stabbing attack. But he's been pushing misinformation about who did it. And he's putting out, you know, he just had to take one down today,

but what he did, he posted civil war is inevitable. He's creating all kinds of misinformation. And he's platformed a lot of these people who are organizing all these violent protests. They seem to be stemming the tide because regular people came out and said that's enough, right, essentially. Last night there was a worry that it was going to explode again, and then it didn't. We did a story on this. We got an email from The Guardian reporter and she told us, you know, she hangs up the phone on my way out to the protest and she said it didn't happen. So. Right.

Bless. Yeah. Right. It didn't. I mean, these things tend to they do tend to burn themselves up. But these are dangerous people who thrive on violence. Right. And so, you know, he's, I can't believe I'm saying this, but he's like trying to be Rupert Murdoch, except Rupert Murdoch is controlled about how he decimates society. You know what I mean? Like, he's like a violent, I mean, the pushing of violence, saying civil arrest is inevitable, putting out incorrect memes, platforming people who are lying, creating all

kinds of fake videos. It's very dangerous. And you could, it's just a little taste of what he was going to do here in this country if he has the ability. He's already putting out Kamala Harris as a communist and, you know, all kinds of stuff. I mean, he's a dangerous person. How much influence? All right. I was thinking about this. We did the story. We learned that a lot of the young men in the UK that are out in the streets are kind of like angry about immigration, loosely affiliated, maybe far right, maybe just kind of pissed off and likes to fight. What I wonder is, what is the moment when Elon Musk and this crap loses credibility with them? All right. Hear me out. Civil war is inevitable. Civil war doesn't happen. Do we wake

up then and say, oh, that guy was wrong. That guy's repeatedly wrong. I don't believe him anymore. Welcome to this person he's interviewing on Monday, Donald Trump. No, we don't, right? No. Like, you know, it's interesting. Some friend of mine was working on a story about sexual harassment things around someone. And they were asking if, you know, if people at the company were concerned about it. And I said, can I try to get something through to you? They don't care. They don't care. Like nobody, the people who are for Trump do not care that he's racist. They do not care he's misogynist. They don't care. And that I think is something you have to get your head around. The same thing with Elon. These people who follow him, he's accountable to no means the richest person in the world.

And this is something UK's technology minister said. He's accountable to no one. Yeah. And he controls very, in this case, both of them could control very important things, right? And so, you know, no, I think people who follow him like him. And they don't go, oh, look, he was wrong again. Look, he was wrong again. Look, he was, you know, look, he was, remember he was backing DeSantis and then he was backing RFK Jr. Then he was, you know, he's been wrong frequently. It just doesn't, they don't, they drop, one of the strengths of misinformation is when you have a piece of misinformation and it doesn't turn out to be true, you move to the next one, right? When you have a piece of misinformation and it doesn't turn out to be true, you move to the next one, right? You don't stay here and go, oh, you don't have a contemplation situation.

And let me tell you, I started talking about my mom, but I did an interview with Hillary Clinton. And a couple days later, my mom called me and she goes, oh, Hillary Clinton's saying terrible things about people like me. And I'm like, what? What is she saying now? And she started repeating things. I'm like, oh, that sounds like my interview, but that's not I'm like, what? What is she saying now? And she started repeating things. I'm like, oh, that sounds like my interview, but that's not what she said, right? It was completely, it was a complete mutation of what she said, like a very vicious one. And I said, no, no, that was my interview. She didn't say that. And my mother said, oh, she said it. And I was like, no, she didn't. She said it to me. I'm your daughter. And I did the interview.

She did not say that. No, you're wrong. She said it. This was a conversation I had. So I said, why don't you go back and listen to the interview and then call me back? And she listened to it and she called me back. She was, okay, she didn't say it. But let me talk about the emails.

Like she moved, like the fact that she was wrong was not something that mattered. Yep. So I think that's what's happening here. On to the next, on to the next. Yeah, because and then Elon keeps up the bread and circuses with them, right? So now... Yeah, he'll be on to something new by next week, right?

Oh, no. And then he attacks trans people. His daughter is giving him a lesson in social media. I saw that. She's terrific. She's really good. It's interesting because her sense of humor is not like the way his used to be,

which was... She's very clever. She's killing it on social media, I have to say, because she's sick because her sense of humor is not like the way his used to be, which was, she's very clever. She's killing it on social media, I have to say, because she's sick of her father putting stuff out about her in her life that isn't true. And has apparently decided, that's enough. I've had enough of you and stealing my narrative, which I think is great. Anyway, I recommend everybody following her. Okay, Noelle, let's pivot to a listener question. This question came in via email.

I'll read it. Given VP Harris's instant success on the TikTok platform, I'm curious what you both think will happen at TikTok should VP Harris win the presidency. How will this influence the Congress's position on TikTok? Thanks, Ian from Chicago. P.S. Love the show. Just for clarification, last week a spokesperson for Harris said the VP has said before,

we don't want to ban TikTok. We would just like to see a change in ownership. Now, of course, that's the situation in which Congress passed, which it will ban TikTok if it doesn't have a change in ownership. So she's for banning TikTok, I guess. It's kind of a little wordplay there. But your thoughts? I don't think anything's going to change because TikTok is powerful.

I get it. I don't think Kamala Harris is going to change any of her positions because a lot of people made memes about her. I don't think that changes her mind at all. I think she probably thinks it's great if it helps her win an election, but I don't see a link here. I don't see a link. Yeah, I think she's not going to. I think Congress has passed this law. We'll see where it goes. There'll probably be a change of ownership. We'll see what the Chinese government does. But I suspect knowing her a little bit, she is a lawyer at heart, right? She's a litigator. And she probably does understand this better than Biden ever could, like that the constitutional issues are quite significant here in terms of banning

this thing. And it may not ever go anywhere. So I think she knows a little bit more about where it's headed. Secondly, probably in terms of national security, she probably has more heft in that regard. So, as with a lot of things with Harrison, I love your comment. She seems to be trying to go right down the middle on everything, like whether it was now fracking or Gaza or whatever. She seems to be trying to take a very modulated position. I think she'll do that here. What about you? Yeah. Yeah, I think she has to. I mean, the the critique is going to be she's a wild eyed lefty. Look at her positions in the 2020 campaign, which did not go well for her. And so her moving more into the center absolutely makes a lot of sense to me. She

wants to win an election. She is not she is not trying to distinguish herself from a Joe Biden and a Beto O'Rourke, whoever the heck. It was four years ago. I can't remember, but there were so many of them. She's not trying to distinguish herself from all those guys and gals this time. She's trying to win an election. And moderating is a way to do that. Yeah. I have to tell you, having known her since she was district attorney in San Francisco, even before she was running for that. No kidding. Yeah, when she was a local prosecutor. You know, I remember going to one of her when my son was just a baby. It's a very funny story.

He threw a biscuit at her head, and she came over, and she goes, I'm going to arrest him. It was very cute. And I have found her not very liberal, honestly. For San Francisco, she's very conservative, and I've always found her a modulating person. I think that 2020 thing was, she always seems to find the center, even with, I used to argue with her about internet stuff.

I'm like, you could be a little tougher, but she's always like, on one hand, on the other. She's a little more, I never found her to be, I know a lot of liberals from San Francisco, and she wasn't, I wouldn't have put her in that bucket in any way. She loved the tech moguls. She wasn't, like, hostile to them. She was critical, but not hostile, you know. I don't think it's kind of a lie that she's a crazy liberal.

She's not. We'll see. But in 2020, she certainly definitely went down that road. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. It's a good question. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVID. All right, Noelle, one more quick to do a round-robin of predictions here, so get ready. Who's going to play Tim Walls on Saturday Night Live this year? A lot of people are clamoring for Steve Martin to play him, but Martin says he declined,

and that they obviously asked him. They need a real impressionist to do it. Maya Rudolph has already been signed on to play Kamala. She's done a fantastic job, by the way, so far. Thoughts? I'm going to confess, I do have a tiny bit of face blindness. And so everybody looks like everybody else to me. So Tim Walz, I'm having, I'm actually having trouble with his face.

John Goodman? Yeah, I was thinking that, John Goodman. Were you really? Yeah. John Goodman. I googled, earlier today I googled actors that look like a dad. John Goodman came up. Yeah. So that was how I- From Roseanne. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Speaking of which, the bear, we're not going to go there. Even she, crazy Roseanne, thought it was crazy. So I think John Goodman's a good idea. John

Goodman. Although they might get someone you don't know. They've done a great job with replacing Alec Baldwin with a guy who's doing Trump very well. Who does the great impressions. Right. Exactly. Steve Martin's point. Yeah. So, I don't know. I think Steve Martin would have been good. But Maya Rudolph is brilliant. There's a lot of compilations of her doing Kamala Harris, and they're very funny. They're much funnier now, and they're actually on point. funny. They're much funnier now, and they're actually on point. There is one where she does a song, My Name is Kamala, that rhymes with mamala. She does this song that's very funny. Anyway, well, it's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. And also, there's The Bear with RFK Jr.

There's J.D. Vance's Creepitude. There's so much for Saturday Night Live. Anyway, last one. The DNC is a little over a week away. We'll be hearing a lot from politicians. Who do you think the entertainment will be and should be? You get several choices. Go ahead. Oh, should be. Okay, will be Charlie XCX, Miranda Lambert, Tracy Chapman, and Luke Combs.

Still crying over that. I don't know. Entertainment is a place where I'm not very good, but... Nope, name names. It doesn't have to be entertainers. I mean, so Taylor wouldn't do it. Beyonce wouldn't do it. Like, there are people who are just too big.

Are they? Are they? Do you think? No, say more. I think they should do it. I think the two of them... Here's my idea. The two of them,'s my idea the two of

them beyonce and taylor swift holy shit sing america the beautiful i think that's the song i forget the name of it it's the one god shed his grace on the which is my favorite one because it's nice um and then they the um uh star spangled banner they sing it together they sing it together and then they both do um the the big note that's hard to get to at the top, Land of the Free. There's an expression. They put it on such a note so high nobody can reach it. It's a great line. They do it together.

You're going to be inside the convention. I know. You may see it. You may see it. I know. That's what I would do. Here's what I would do. Simone Biles as a speaker.

Love it. Love it. She did such a good black job. And she did the best black job. She was smiling. She just, I love Simone Biles always smiling. I would love to hear a speech from her. Even her interviews.

She's so like, I'm like, say more. Say more, please. She's magnetic. Magnetic. She is a magnetic person. Really, truly. I was trying to think Ryan Reynolds, you know, because he has a big hit movie, like Barbie. I don't know.

Margot Robbie, so, so inoffensive, a delightful woman. Issa Rae. Issa Rae. She was president in Barbie. Anyway, stuff like that. But like take the flags, take patriotism, switch the word from, you know, the risk to democracy to we're for freedom. That's the kind of thing they need to do. And it's got to be an entertainer. I still think Taylor Swift. She did that, that picture. You saw that picture she did, right?

I did. And it is unclear to me what happened because isn't, isn't her campaign, Taylor's campaign, aren't they denying that it is a shadow of Kamala Harris in the picture? It's a dancer of hers. It's a dancer of hers who looks like Kamala Harris. Yes, why did she pick that picture? No, no, I don't believe the people of Taylor Swift land because she does this all the time. She literally goes into liner notes and puts little Easter eggs. She's an Easter egg lady. Like, she does this.

She does it all the time with wordplay and everything else. Anybody else? Anyone else you'd like to see up there? Oh, I mean, who did the RNC have? Kid Rock, Hulk Hogan. Who's sort of gone to the middle, very clearly conservative now. The Rock. I mean, not conservative, whatever. Oh, The Rock. Yeah. Somebody wrote a very smart line about him the other day about The Rock understanding the marketplace so well that you never really know where he's at. But he's good at it. He's very good at it.

Remember people were talking about The Rock for president? Moana 2 is coming up. Is it really? I didn't know they were making a second movie. See, this is why I know you're a childish cat or dog owner. Because I don't know what the—yes, you and J.D jd vance go ahead and mock me i have a pug i have a pug he does know moana's coming i'm guessing if he has small kids anyone who has a small kid moana two frozen three and four more frozen it's a and a live action moana's

frozen is frozen is the bane of every parent's existence you must be so pleased not to know about it my niece will sing the songs and I'm like, go for it. I'm here for 10 minutes. Go for it, girl. I actually texted Bob Iger. I go, go fuck yourself. How dare you do this to me? Using your connections for good.

I'm like, no, stop it. And then he wrote back. He goes, Mauna too, coming. And I was like, ah, whatever. Good luck. Good luck. They're doing great with Inside Out too. But you don't have to care about these things.

You get to go to adult movies where adults are. It's so nice. Must be nice. Anyway, that's the show. Tell us what you have coming up on Today Explained. Lots of news. News of the day, every day. One great story.

Dive in. We make it fun for you. You'll love it. What's your favorite non-political news right now oh oh non-political news okay wait let me just see what's coming up oh should i have done this i'm doing a show about online dating on which in which i share with listeners what i do when i'm not online dating and um yeah you have to tune in i'm not sure this is gonna go well i never online dated you did it oh i hate you no i i've been i've been going out with someone since seventh

grade i have never been single just for a month i was single for a month wow i am filled with resentment don't be because i was literally like i just i don't understand it i just lesbian it's easier being a lesbian, I'll tell you that. Holy crap. Yeah, we'll see. Well, I've also been divorced and broken up with lots of people, so it's not been that smooth. Honestly, my wife should divorce me. She's wonderful.

Anyway, we'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Noelle, thank you so much for doing this. And I recommend everybody listen to Today Explained. Great show. Great host. Thanks for doing this. And I recommend everybody listen to Today Explain. Great show. Great host. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I will read us out.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Aaliyah Jackson engineered this episode. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. And again, Noelle, thank you so much for being on the show and everybody listen to Today Explained.